Power Before Principle
The Tory instinct for power is ingrained in their DNA, it is why they were the most successful governing party of the twentieth century, no ideological baggage is allowed to prevent them from governing. Conservativism is not a fixed canon, it is a frame of mind, an attitude to life and society. The one thing that is constant is that conservatives believe in furthering the national interest.
Yesterday the Conservatives put their party interest before the national interest. They will justify it to their consciences by arguing, as Cameron did, that if they win the election, they will inherit the worst public finances of any incoming government for fifty years.
We will have a generational challenge to get Britain to live within her means, to secure economic recovery and to deliver this country from the appalling mess left by this Labour Government. That has to come before anything else.
That may be. The argument won over the 1922 Committee. It seems to have convinced frontbench eurosceptics like Fox and Hague. It seems to have won over even Bill Cash. Only Hannan and Roger Helmer are unwilling to condone the putting of power before principle. Many more will be wrestling with their consciences.
It seems that contrary to everything that the Tories said about not letting matters rest, that they are willing to subordinate the national interest not just to a continental supra-state, but to electoral calculations. Guido has been told that three weeks ago Margaret Thatcher wrote a personal plea to her great admirer Václav Klaus, to stand firm, in the hope of strengthening his resolve. It was to be delivered by William Hague. It still rests on his desk.
UPDATE : Incidentally, Guido has read the draft bill the Tories circulated before the June 4 Euro-elections. Guido is not a constitutional lawyer, but can’t see any obstacle to that bill being introduced as promised by Tory MEPs at the election. Guido is willing to be corrected by m’learned friends.
They’ve underestimated the feeling on this issue.
If True then Hague should be expelled from the party and then shot at dawn.
TRAITOR
Nelson Fraser sums it up well.
The undemocratic European super elite have won. The only weapon we have now is to stop paying the fuckers and hold an in or out referendum. The Tories have capitulated.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/5504783/there-is-only-question-that-frightens-brussels.thtml
Try this one as well
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/11/the-triumph-of-euroscepticism.html
Why the surprise ?
The original Blair only ever cared about winning power and was never really that interested or particularly cared abour what happened afterwards.
Call me Davy Blair 2.0 is no different so at least you know exactly what kind of clone you are in for.
Seems that way.
Dave is a disgrace.
Dave like Gordy is interested only in his place in history.
Ted Heath was only interested n his place in history and look what happened to him.
Chase red herrings if you like, the tory response is a bad strategy and an even worse policy. It leaves Cameron and Britain in a weak negotiating position and will leave him and us marginalised by the French and Germans.
Keep pushing for a referendum and vote UKIP for now
An “in or out” referendum now looks like our only hope
‘Iron Clad Guarantee’
I think I’ll call him Rusty Cameron from now on ! Or simply Rusty !
function BlairClone(blair) {
if (electionWin == “Cameron”) {
while (exists(blair)) do {
$Cameron = blair;
$Cameron .= 2.0;
}
} else {
abort;
}
return $Cameron;
}
Who cares?
Our future is in the EU.
If the Tories are stupid enough to encourage a baying mob of half-baked public opinion to withdraw us from the EU, the UK is finished.
We are not capable of maintaining our standards of living alone – we produce nothing of value except toxic financial assets, which are already en route to Zurich as we speak.
Wake up Britain, stop dreaming, and get with the EU programme.
So you think that the French, Germans, Greeks etc are going to maintain our standard of living for us? No wonder the europhile establishment has to get Lisbon passed without a referendum.
They only have to repeal the 1972 European Communities Act.
Simples……
Yes, good article and factual, the last paragraph sums it up for me.
What angers me, is not just being let down, but the thought that they think that I and a large percentage of the voting public are too stupid to understand the consequences of the Lisbon Treaty and how meaningless they make the wishy washy promises from yesterday.
after reading the headlines in the press,well they have all having a kick
at Dave.Brown gets off again .fucking Labour lackies
For all to remember… there is no point in starting something when you have no power, after a general election then its a whole different matter.Being in government is the first step – and that has to be put first -
then and only then can a Conservative government take what steps that are required to protect our national interests. Being in opposition for another five years is the alternative. Guido is well aware of this, so buckle up and support the drive to rid ourselves of this hated Labour “government”.
It’s not just labour lackies, it’s the puppetmasters init!
Labour are puppets, Tories are puppets, the mainstream media are puppets and they all have the SAME puppeteer pulling their strings!
The LAST thing their masters expect is for us all to actually wake up and take a genuine and principled stand FOR our soveriegnty.
Vote UKIP.
Tell every non-voter in the land, THEY have the power now. The pissed off Brit, the decent, tolerant, hard working, salt of the earth independent minded Brit. The Brit that has been ignored, shit on, overtaxed, over spied upon. THAT Brit. The one who sees NO POINT in voting for tory or labour or liberal. THAT BRIT.
There are far more of them than there are tories and labour supporters combined!
Tell them that and get them to vote FOR THIS COUNTRY!
It will be worth that effort to watch the TV the next morning and see the pundits wondering what the fuck hit them as tory MP after tory MP and labour MP after labour MP lose their seats!
We CAN take Britain back,
We DO have the numbers,
LET’S DO IT!
On the contrary, they know the public are intelligent enough to understand the consequences of this sodding treaty, that’s why we weren’t given a referendum.
Hey Mr Ned
Stop using “Brit” – it makes you sound like a retard. The word is Briton.
Your whole idea is deluded jingoism. Fine let’s take the power back. But then what do we do with it?
Fuck all, because the country’s ruined. China and India will become two new superpowers, Europe will compete.
And we’ll be left on the side wondering what we ever saw in a phoney cheat like Farage.
This is exactly the point: the Treaty is SELF-AMENDING so there will be no point at which the circumstances arise that a new Treaty is put before Parliament.
What really bothers me is that Dave doesn’t understand this.
If he does, then he too is a traitor to this country, which bothers me even more
Yesterday finally decided me – it’s UKIP:
not just for the GE vote; it’s time to join the party and fight
That’s not the ONLY weapon.
Lose the cheques in the post? Dunno AC1 – feels like i’ve got a german cock nudging its way up my arse and some French shit offering me his horse for tea!
It certainly isn’t.
Where is this fucking tipping point.
There can only be one explanation for Cameron’s behaviour – he is the bastard son of conchi, yellow bellied coward; Jack Straw’s dad.
I’m William Hague, remember me, Oh well please yourselves!
First I wanted my country back. Then I gave you In Europe not run by Europe. I’m rather good at this. Here try this one. Gordon Ramseys in the kitchen and not swearing!! Its the way I tell them.
Big time.
How can an unelected p.m. on a broken promise give away our constitutional rights in a back door deal?
IT IS ILLEGAL AND THEREFORE THE TREATY SIGNED BY THIS BASTARD IS NOT WORTH THE PAPER ITS WRITTEN ON.
UKIP is the only option left now that the Conservative party has given in. I wonder if the two Conservative MEPs who have resigned over Cameron`s cowardice will work with or even join UKIP. Daniel Hannan would make a great British PM
But UKIP are like the Liberals, they can promise what they want because they know they are never going to be in a position to actually stick to their promises.
hey what about the other problems one trick pony comes to mind
Aye.
MB, LET’S MAKE THEM STICK TO THEM THEN!
It’s a simple choice.
Sit on ya arse and do nothing and see our sovereignty and law-making abd tax-raising powers given away to a foreign power, OR take a stand and DO something about it.
Persuade the pissed off majority to vote UKIP and GET OUR SOVEREIGNTY PROTECTED!
Guess what happens IF everyone who feels like we do votes UKIP?
THEY WIN AN ELECTION BY A LANDSLIDE!
Only 22% of the electorate gave that pile of shit labour party a 66 seat majority. 22%!!!! For fuck’s sake!
40% did not see the point in voting! WELL THERE IS A FUCKING POINT NOW! A BIG FUCKING SCARY ONE!
Labour will not get 15% at the next election, the tories will get about 20 – 22%
IF WE CAN GET THE PISSED OFF VOTERS TO REALISE WHAT IS AT STAKE, UKIP CAN WIN OUTRIGHT! THAT IS HOW PISSED OFF THE BRITISH ARE.
Sure the mainstream media, and their co-puppets the pollsters will do everything to undermine and deny the power inherent in those who do NOT support the mainstream. They continuously seek to downplay how many people are effectively incorporated in this group. In fact the pollsters omit them entirely from the results to deliberately undermine and disenfranchise them further.
The fact is, this group, that is NOT EVEN INCLUDED in the opinion polls, out-number tories and labour combined!
THAT is who UKIP should be going after!
IF they play this right and wake up enough people to the truth of their REAL potential power, then UKIP could realistically win OUTRIGHT!
And IF not win, outright, then at least overtake labour and be the main opposition in a hung Parliament!
Mr Ned. The appropriate way to get UKIP elected is to point out that without sovereign democracy your child may not partake in British politics when they make 18. It doesn’t matter what party or political wing you support. I’m a conservative but if my son or daughter want to vote labour, libdem or green party I would rather they had choice than none at all.
It’s a bit like the saying; ‘I don’t like what you are saying but I’ll fight to the death so you can’.
May I ask anyone who is going to vote UKIP or is worried about their potential success is to volunteer your time to door step or use your InkJet to make leaflets for your street, etc. There is enough material on the internet at thee moment to sway those who are not up to speed on political issues but the main point is that their children and grandchildren deserve to have their sovereign right to take part in politics in the future. Thank you. It can be won. We have ethics on our side.
“Daniel Hannan would make a great British PM”
Hahaha.
Pull the other one, you’ll be saying Farage would make a great PM next.
Uni-dimensional, 19th Century throwbacks, with a good measure of xenophobic bigotry and jingoism thrown in.
This is not the future the UK wants.
We do not want to turn into Weimar, and subsequently Nazi Germany.
Thanks all the same.
“This is not the future the UK wants.”
You never look at opinion polls right?
The people of the UK are stupid.
I said the future the “UK” wants, not the baying mob of thinly-veiled xenophobes who hate anything johnny foreigner does.
Throw away the future of the country if you wish.
We’ll be laughing in the EU
Of COURSE you are anonymous. To be expected.
“The people of the UK are stupid.”
How to win friends and influence people courtesy of an arch EU Fanatic I presume? Do you ever wonder why you are not liked?
“not the baying mob of thinly-veiled xenophobes who hate anything johnny foreigner does.”
Judging by your previous xenephobic comment you are clearly talking about yourself.
“Throw away the future of the country if you wish.
The UK has no future as a vassal state, of the corrupt fascistic EU. So be a good boy and run along, as Churchill said, “our concerns are not your concerns” unlike you, I would rather die a free Briton than live as an EU serf.
“We’ll be laughing in the EU”
I do not care what the EU does, or does not do, once we have left.
We already have turned into the fucking Weimar, you fucking chump.
Only fucking champagne socialists and NL Apologists use words like Xenophobia and jingoism. Because the c.unts have no other fucking answer, no other blade of fucking grass to fucking hang on to, no other way of winning the argument.
Call every fucker who doesnt agree with you a xenophobic baby eating tory racist and watch them crawl back under their stones.
Might have worked for the last 12 years, but it aint going to work any more.
As yes, those great xenophobes the Hispanophone Hannan and German-married Farage.
Muppet. At least lob insults that are accurate.
Next you’ll be saying Helmer never travelled beyond Cromer.
Why do Europhiles persist in this stupid and dishonest fantasy that we who see the true anti-democratic nature of the EU are ‘little Englanders’, throwbacks etc etc.
Many of us have lived and done business in EU countries – in my case, three of them – and travelled widely. If people like Anon would listen and learn instead of throwing purile insults around, we would not be facing a future in which our formerly democratic country will be emasculated and impoversihed by political elites with no roots in t he democratic system of government common to English speaking peoples – our NATURAL allies.
In the Olympics, whom do you support when the Aussies are playing the French?
Thought so, me too!
And I’ve lived in France, for several years!
I agree – Hannan does appear to be a man of principle and, as such, seems to be in a tiny minority. DC has just squandered an enormous amount of political capital, and he will surely rue the day he made such a terrible decision. This complete and utter betrayal will now haunt him for years to come.
Liebore claimed that Lisbon was completely different to the EU Constitution as the pretext for ratting on their promise of a referendum.
What about taking them at their word? That is, anything in Lisbon which IS like the EU Constitution is illegal (because parliament only consented to what is different)?
Is it possible to take this to our courts, like the Czechs did?
Sadly Next Slide Please – the courts are also ALL working towards
1) the EU superstate
which is nothing but a stepping stone to:
2) global government by the central banks and corporations who through tax-exempt foundations and think tanks like RIIA/Chatham House; Bilderberg and CFR etc CONTROL SO CALLED ‘GOVERNMENTS’.
If the troops don’t return home and the police don’t wake up to the fact that they’re being used to condition us to living in lock-down via not-so back-door fascists then we’ll be defending what’s left of our freedom; money and paltry ‘life’ with garden implements…
TREASON HAS AND CONTINUES TO BE COMMITTED AGAINST THE RIGHT-MINDED/THINKING PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY AND THE WIDER WORLD.
George Orwell was only 25 years or so out in his predition.
The rate of change can and will now be accelerated, Military kept in Afganistan so not on home soil.
Can EU put non-UK police on our streets to ensure fair election?
I, along with others, would rather Brown scrapes in next time than Dave wins but does not understand his mandate.
UKRIP so UKIP all the way Nigel
“Military kept in Afganistan so not on home soil.”
Deliberate ploy, eternal war elsewhere, no military to defend the state. They are talking about Afghanistan lasting FORTY YEARS, FFS wake up!!
You would prefer Brown scapes in than have Dave elected. That says everything about you then.
I would Prefer UKIP to be the official opposition to a minority Government, if not the OUTRIGHT Government!
So get out and tell everyone that the ONLY choice at the next election is between a completely integrated EU and our sovereignty and the memories of millions of war-dead and what they fought for, pissed away,
OR it is a vote to defend this Sovereign Isle and it’s laws and its law-making power and OUR individual sovereignty whit which OUR Parliament is blessed.
There is NOTHING wrong with our Parliament. There is Everything wrong with those traitors who currently inhabit our Parliament.
It needs a damn good clear out!
This next election is NOT politics as usual. It is the LAST CHANCE to defend our sovereignty!
remember that only 22% of the electorate voted labour in 2005 22% for fuck’s sake!
We MUST do better!
Tell everyone, and do NOT stop telling everyone until our sovereignty has been secured!
It’s not illegal you chump.
Your comment is about as relevent as a bullit proof ‘Vote Conservative’ yard sign.
The signing of the Lisbon treaty most certainly was illegal.
A promise, (look that word up to find out what it means) was reneged on by an unelected pm and his arselicking sidekick minigland without so much as a by your leave.
If you bother to go back and have a look, youll plainly remember that this pair of gay felchers snuck in the back door ( how apt) when everyone else had buggered off home in the hope of not being noticed whilst writing the words “FUCK YOU BRITAIN!” in great big words across the democratic process here.
They had absolutely NO entitlement to sign me up as a “european”, i am ENGLISH, born of ENGLAND.
My consent was never given to enslave me and deny me a right to self determination.
I never signed a fucking thing and i never gave permission to be sold like a piece of livestock to a european owner!
How can such an act ever be considered “legal” in any civilised state in the world? Especially when the “pm” such as this fat shambling coward is and has absolutely no mandate, being as he is- UNELECTED!
I shall shortly be committing an act of treason against a european flag with a box of matches and a large firework.
Vote UKIP.
I assume you voted in ‘05?
Unless you lived in Sedgefield constituency you didn’t vote for Tony Blair, you voted for your local MP.
If you did live in Sedgefield then you voted for him as a member of parliament, not as PM.
If you’re going to whine, at least be aware of what you’re voting for…
Road Hog, you are right, people want an IN or OUT referendum on Europe.
If Cameron does not deliver, every Brit who is worried that Brussels does not care for the UK will vote UKIP and that is a lot of people.
Time to get bold Dave. The Manefesto should an IN/OUT EU vote, withdraw from Afghanistan and let the American’s fight for another decade and lose, curb immigration, build more prisons and finally stop printing to rescue imprudent banks and big business who spend the proceeds overseas (give the money to small business and consumers who will spend the money at home).
In other words, look after Britain’s domestic interests because Brussels isn’t going to do it for us. Not quite Fortress Britain, but a balance between getting shafted by the US and Europe and engaging overseas.
Dave, you have been warned
McGroom sums it all up pretty well…
Many people, including myself, thought the EU was a monster that could be tamed – that it didn’t have a dark, secret agenda. Now we know different. The option was always: stay in and be enslaved – or get the hell out while we can. I believe there is still time.
I’ve been taking the Open Europe feed via email for many years, and never had any illusions since Heath’s treachery became plain back in the early 1980s.
At least people are now starting to listen – but it’s too late, it’s going to be extremely difficult now to leave. Under Lisbon, we need THEIR permission to leave!
Meanwhile they can milk us dry for two years while they ponder our ‘request’, if we ever have a parliament witht he guts to even ask to leave..
Will they agree to their biggest milch cow leaving? I doubt it.
Which will only leave violent revolution. It is that serious!
Dave’s finished. His credibility is shot.
Good riddance to the traitorous Hoon
Cameron is a FUCKING LIER and HAIG is a Traitor.roll on the election lets give Griffin a go perhaps he will bring back the death penalty for traitors
Electoral suicide, courtesy of the Tories.
Labour must be laughing all the way to their fourth term.
Afganistan? Thats a NATO thing isnt it? Do you want to withdraw from NATO too?
“He can have no idea of the intensity of hatred invoked by that supine, malign, fatuous, smug, self-serving, smarmy renegade called Cameron, and his europhiliac sell-out.”
Even some gobby frog calls him “Pathetic”
Although, what I don’t quite get is….
If it is as wishy washy a set of proposals as it seems, why did the french fella bite? Maybe Cameron has touched a nerve somewhere in Euroland? If were really “pathetic”, then it wouldn’t even have warranted comment from Jonny F. Responding with talk of castration and autism would maybe suggest a hint of concern?
I think you will find that the frenchy is a mate of cast Iron Dave. It makes dave look good to have a frog insulting him.
The French foreign minister has had a pop at the tories. What he puts aside, very neatly is, that the French voted AGAINST the treaty (constitution). So much for the will of the people. You can imagine how much it is worth to these unelected bureaucrats that we get dragged kicking and screaming into the EU, and then get the door slammed behind us! The bastard Blair, and the ineffectual Gorgon, and the slime mandelscum are to blame! It all started and finished with them!
The French people did vote against it, but the politicians knew best, and so, are not pathetic.
BTW: A large proportion of the votes against were because it was too free market, and not protectionist/statist enough.
No, the French did not vote against the Treaty, they voted against a Constitution.
If you cannot tell the difference, perhaps you are beginning to understand why you weren’t allowed a referendum.
We don’t want thickos like you making decisions that will affect my kids thanks.
Anon
Its the same damn thing. Tell us simple differences, or admit you’re Mrs. Flint.
Anon 12:05pm – you are the ignorant one.
Giscard d’Estaing stated “… lift the lid and look in the toolbox: all the same innovative and effective tools are there, just as they were carefully crafted by the European Convention”. EU politicians have openly admitted what you are so ignorant of – wake up there.
Cameron is pathetic. Lisbon makes the EU a new state. One with full legal independence and laws that are above UK law. Therefore Cameron cannot legally carry out anything he has just claimed.
Either Cameron is conning eurosceptics (again), or he hasn’t the first idea of what Lisbon has made the EU. Either way he has lost the plot and is not worth voting for.
That was my take on it – so why did frenchie bite?
Because they cannot stand ANY opposition to the EU, no matter how FLIMSY AND WET!
I share your anger about Lisbon.
But a strong government with the mandate of the people in a sovereign nation can do anything it wants to. Repeal any law, withdraw from any treaty and leave any union.
“European Law” is an illusion. It has power if a country decides it has power. An Act Of Parliament that said, essentially, “We no longer accept this” is entirely credible. If, and this is the big IF, the government has the cohones to do it – and the will to accept the consequences (whatever they may be.)
I’m not necessarily advocating this. But anybody who tells you Lisbon is a “done deal” which is now “law” and “cannot be reversed” is talking absolute nonsense. Nothing is irreversible.
You’re one of the few people to mention the word “illusion”. That is exactly what we have here. Politicians’ power is only an illusion. There are far, far more of US than there are of THEM. When people wake up to this fact, then the balance of power will tip in the people’s favour.
No, Steve Tierney, you are wrong. Bear in mind that there is a substantive difference between the EU laws that govern the way the EU operates (the EU’s constitution) and Regulations and Directives that the EU may enact in the future.
The UK cannot unilaterally change the new EU constitution resultant from Lisbon: we have no legal power to do so within the EU itself. The UK can ask, or lobby, to do this but the chance of all other 26 members agreeing to do so are practically non existent.
So we are stuck with the (Lisbon) EU constitution. Therefore the only option left to us, the UK, is to leave. Up to Lisbon the UK could leave the EU of its own volition by repealing, at Westminster, the ECA 1972.
After Lisbon the UK no longer has that option. Why? Because we have legally, by accepting Lisbon, signed up to the alternative way of leaving the EU enshrined in Article 50 (‘Voluntary Withdrawal …’). This is the only way we can ‘reverse’ Lisbon legally. And Cameron won’t countenance it.
david cameron’s analysis is incorrect.
we will be unable to balance the country’s books as long as we have the EU parasites and scroungers constantly demanding money for no good reason from us.
we are in a recession and we are at war. we cannot afford to give good money away to the corrupt European Union. they are thieves and fraudsters, and the more we give the more they demand.
first things first thought, we should call a moratorium on the payment of any fines the EU imposes on this country and just stick to our normal contributions until we have sorted out this Constitutional Crisis.
Hear, hear
Perfect! Its a good first response. When we send hijackers back to Taliban land and the EU goes on about we have abused their ‘Uman Writes, so we nod in contrition and agree to pay a billion euro’s to our favourite EU commission , but we never do, nor do we bring the hijackers back.
We just continually rack up fines while paying lip service to the EU. Why we just behave as if we were anti-social behaviour offenders in this country, knowing the court will never put us away for throwing burgers at shop windows.
In fact we should instruct our MEPs to wear hoodies in Brussels, put their feet on the seats, shout out ‘frog wankers’ at every opportunity and behave menacingly towards Belgium. Generally just annoy everyone. With a bit of luck Britain will get an ASBO and have to stay 22 miles away from Europe at all times.
“we cannot afford to give good money away to the corrupt European Union. they are thieves and fraudsters, and the more we give the more they demand.”
Well said TaT – and just think what we could do with £50m per day.
Guido. Safer if you stay ion tonight!
forget the o
I knew you were going to say that
If he gets charged with something he’ll be an ion.
What is the point of having a referendum on Lisbon when,by next year it will be law.The battle over Lisbon has been lost and Cameron i think made a pretty good speech yesterday.
Instead of blaming the opposition which is utterley bizarre we should be blaming the Government.
Labour and Brown are getting off Scot free over this!!
Because Laws can be changed by this thing called Parliament.
Because we want one. Now piss off you are just making things worse.
“What is the point of having a referendum on Lisbon”
Well, at least then we would know if there was a majority in favour or against, if against, we coould go to a further in/out referendum. If in favour then no problem. But both Brown and Cameron seem to think it a forgone conclusion that such a referendum would be against the Lisbon treaty. Of course, that begs the question as to why Brown would sign such a document in the full knowledge that it was against the wishes of the electroate.
Blair was always banging on about his place in history.
Quisling
William Joyce
Blake
Vassal
Philby
Burgess
Maclean
Blunt
Brown
Blair
Mandelson
I think his place is assured.
You missed Heath – he was the traitor who signed us up for this thing in the first place
Yes you have a point, but at that time it was the EEC, a purely economic arrangement, or so many of us thought. However, I have to admit that voices were raised at the time, that one day we would come to this sorry pass. And so it has turned out to be. So yes, let’s include Heath, also, was it not Major who signed Maatsrict? So perhaps include him also.
Buggering. Although upset over Lisbon I have to agree wholeheartedly with your post. Why are people blaming Cameron? Because they support NuLabour. For god sake people its NuLabour who set this up, who tried to push through a constitution and then back doored us into the same thing and called it The Lisbon Treaty. You should vent at Blair/Brown and no one else.
You are quite right Liebore/Bliar/Gordoom got us in this mess. But Camoron’s limp response won’t get us out.
So you are suggesting that I should hate Blair/Brown, for selling us out to the EU, yet bizarrely support Cameron when he capitulates and lets does the same?
No, the test is very very simple. I will hate any politician that sells out the UK and who fails to defend our sovereignty.
I already hate Blair and Brown, for making this sell out possible in the first place.
I (along with millions of others) were waiting, and hoping, that Cameron would react to this sell-out by defending OUR soveriegnty, or at the very least, by granting an immediate referendum on the relationship of the Britain to the EU.
HE DID NOT. This is new.
Instead of being opposed to Labour’s position, Cameron has just ENDORSED it, with weasel language and empty unachievable promises.
You cannot defend British sovereignty by voting labour, liberal, or tory.
THAT is why people are giving Cameron a good and well deserved kicking.
it has NOTHING to do with if we like or hate labour.
IF ANYTHING, Cameron had (still has) the power to eliminate UKIP as a political threat altogether and guarantee his election win with a large majority.
All he has to do is promise a referendum on EU membership.
The question could be as follows:
Does the UK Government continue to use the current laws enacted in the Lisbon Reform Treaty to try to secure the best deal for the UK and to play a central part in that process, accepting that there will be occasion to sacrifice more sovereignty? Or does the British Government withdraw from the EU as a full member?
IF Dave guaranteed that, with a legally binding notice of intent, then he would win by a landslide.
BUT he hasn’t has he? So why not?
He hasn’t and by refusing, he has sold the UK out, just as labour has!
Until and unless any such referenda is promised, my vote will be with UKIP!
It seems Cameron would rather risk seeing Labour win, than protect British Sovereignty.
“So a progressive reform agenda demands that we redistribute power from the EU to Britain and from judges to the people. We will therefore hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, pass a law requiring a referendum to approve any further transfers of power to the EU, negotiate the return of powers, and require far more detailed scrutiny in Parliament of EU legislation, regulation and spending.
David Cameron 1st May 2009
http://europeanjournal.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/05/index.html
No ifs or buts in Dave’s Cast Iron guarantee of a referendum there.
But the treaty is already in place – blame labour
That promise was made May this year. Dave knew the treaty was about to be ratified but stilll promised a referendum on it, the whole of Europe was told that when Dave became PM he would hold a referendum on the treaty if ratified or not.
All Dave has to prove and it will not be hard, that the man who ratified the treaty for Britain had promised the British people a referendum on the treaty and therefore his signature was illegal. How can one man sign away the rights of 60 million?
He promised a referendum if it hadn’t been ratified. It has now been ratified.
Which part of simple fucking logic do you not grasp?
He promised a refernedum if it hadn’t been ratified. But he refused to amswer waht he would do if it had. Now we know, and confirms everything I always suspected about the leader of her Majesty’s so called “opposition”.
What is so difficult for people to understand the treaty is ratified. You place whatever spin you want on it but the circumstances are totally different now. My anger about this is firmly placed at the feet of Blair/Brown to blame anyone else for this situation is utter B*llocks.
Shite. Dave did not make a proviso. He said there would be a referendum whether ratified or not and he certainly said NOTHING to correct this assumption
You are half right mr, “Brown’s a tosser”, The treaty’s ratification into EU law DOES change everything. The circumstances ARE different now.
Dave’s response to that ratification, and the “NEW Circumstance” means that now I have to vote UKIP.
Just because Labour sold us out, does NOT mean I should reward Dave for his weak, inappropriate and wholly unsatisfactory response to that sell-out.
His response to labour’s treason, is effectively to endorse that treason.
How can any self-respecting British sovereign man or woman accept that?
Well Said.
1 trillion % right or is that our debt
So what do we do, we who want to be part of the EU for trade but not to be governed by them?
I would hate to think that the Labour Party with its trade union backers, once infiltrated with KGB agents like Jack Jones (maybe some sill are), would ever get in power again, nor would I give my vote to UKIP as they will never be in power to haul us out. As for the BNP, well less said the better. The thought of radical violent opposition against the politicians and the EU leaves me cold so just what should we do…those of us who want our rights back?
Any non-violent suggestions would be welcome.
UKIP sadly is now the ONLY party offereing that option. Perhaps it is time for the Conservative party to split. David Davis certainly wants the trade with them but not be governed by them option. It really is frightening that an unelected European super elite will be in charge of all our lives. An elite who think they know better than the rest of us so they must tell us what do do for our own benefit.
UKIP are a sad joke, clutching at straws. A bunch of heart attacks in waiting.
I don’t think there is anything that can be done now, without resort to violence. Sad to say, I think a bit of blood letting is now the only way. It’s either that, or settle down and accept that politicians have sold our democracy.
Oh, and while we’re on the subject, come remberance Sunday, politicians will be on display with their public grief, talking about the sacrifices of those who laid down their life for our freedom and democracy. Too bad then, that they have put such little value on these freedoms. Their presence at remberance day services will only sully the event. May they rot in hell.
No surrender.
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
Never Again will I consider voting for this pathetic Heir to Blair.
I thought Cameron was a spineless creep, but I am still amazed at the sheer cowardice of their actions.
The Tories under Call me Dung are finished and I will be telling them so in reply to their latest request for money.
This is going to significantly hamper Dave’s chances at getting into No 10. Every time they open their mouths, I just will them to say something smart, inspiring and hopeful, but invariably, it’s just to rearrange their feet.
UKIP, here I come.
I imagine the Tory vote will split between the Cameron Appreciation Society and UKIP and Labour will go on to win the next election. Cameron will resign and Labour will finish bankrupting the economy within two years (paying £1.12billion per month to the EU – in Euros – will help do that; it adds up over a year). Another General Election will be called by 2012, to be won by a Conservative Party with a proper Conservative leader, who will be able to point to further erosion of British identity as a reason to call a referendum on EU membership.
That’s the best possible outcome of all this. Cameron’s cast-iron promise that although he’s broken his previous cast-iron promise on a referendum (whilst mocking Brown for breaking his promise), his next promise not to let any more treaties go through without a referendum will be a cast-iron promise just won’t do. The whole point of the Lisbon Treaty is that there won’t be any more treaties. Cameron is a buffoon.
Nah. People in marginal seats won’t vote UKIP in big numbers.
They should go back to their constituencies and prepare to … err …
but they don’t need to :-)
He stole mine too, the bastard…
and mine
You people really are totally ga-ga.
Lisbon has made the EU into a new independent state with laws superior to ours. Camoron still doesn’t get it: he cannot legally do anything about it now except get out, which he refuses to do It is Camoron who is ga-ga..
“Nah. People in marginal seats won’t vote UKIP in big numbers.”
Oh dear, not that bright are we? People dont have to vote in big numbers in marginals to effect to outcome, doh!
Look – the deal between the Tories & the nation is close but not yet done
Nothing must get in the way of the Tories gaining office
NuLiebor must not be given the opportunity to exploit what others may say is a diversion on the EU
Do not frighten the horses
The strategy / tactics are good enough to gain office – Nuliebor is down down down and we must start counting them OUT
We must not give them opportunities to recover and that includes being split on the EU
I – on balance would rather be out of the EU altogether – I am 64 – I can wait; during the next 5 years much will happen and during this period the Hannan’s of our party will help get us free from the EU
Much as I like Farage – UKIP is still a one trick pony and looks like staying that way – indeed a vote for UKIP is a vote for NuLiebor
Steady as she goes – let’s discuss – let’s not squabble – let’s move to regaining independence in a smooth controlled fashion – we cannot do it now !
I look forward to the British EU Referendum – soon
As for the current French Minister for Europe – I thought the raison d’etre of the EU was to stop Germany invading France for the umpteenth time – I recall the UK helping the French with their little problem on a number of occasions – the last time saw a certain Mr de Gaulle – fighting for his country whilst based in the UK – and on his triumphant return to France – gained office and took the opportunity to say ‘Non’ to the UK’s EU application to join.
He was an ungrateful bastard and so is the current French Minister for Europe – the latter should have a word with his parents who – I’m sure – would be both more appreciative of the UK and more respectful!
Patience please !
Posting entire comments in bold is annoying and hard on the eye, it won’t get your posts read, it should only be used to highlight a brief section that you need to draw the reader’s attention to and then only sparingly.
I don’t Actually want CMD ruining the country as he’s just going to continue the New Labour project.
Vote CMD, get no change.
Yeah that’s right.
Let’s vote for Farage!
Hahaha
Hahaha
Hahaha
Hahaha
Hahaha
Hahaha
Hahaha
No seriously, what’s the alternative?
Whats the point of voting for heir to blair.
The only person you are foolishly conning is yourself.
“UKIP is still a one trick pony”
Boring rhetoric from people who believe what they read in the MSM and are too lazy to actually do some reading on UKIP’s policies and manifesto.
Tell me more
What on earth does “Do not frighten the horses” mean? What horses? Cameron’s task is (or could have been) to precisely “frighten” the EU. He fluffed it.
Really? He frightened Pierre…
Yes, I’m sure the French are quaking in their boots.
Never forget an unelected representative signed the ‘Treaty’ without a mandate through promised referendum. Blaming Cameron is misguided.
The EU(ronate) is benefiting from our net contribution; the threat to withdraw our payments has to be a strong barbaining tool/worry to the present setup, hence the froglike response from across the Channel.
If one asks the question “what is the benefit to the UK for”:
Splitting up the Banks
Porous borders
EU lawmaking
Or anything EU
the answer is usually none
Blaming Blair and brown and not the Tories. Ha HA bl….Ha
!
I seem to remember the Treay of Rome. The single European act. Maastricht.
Who you kidding they have been at it for years..
We’re talking about Lisbon – typical response from an ignorant fuckwit with no capacity to actually contribute so they try to muddy the waters.
How very nulabour.
I understand the misgivings of those who say ‘vote UKIP get Labour’ but something inside me delights in the thought that Broon would have to face up to all those problems instead of Dave…
I totally agree with this.
If we are going down as a bankrupt part of a corrupt EU, let’s go down in style with McDoom in charge, and see him face the results of his socialist actions.
Then folks can really appreciate what Soshalism can do for you rather than this endless cycle of,
Fucked by Labour,
Tories get in, sort it out and get the blame
Labour get back in again and screw it up,
and so on, and so on.
Maybe when we’re really down we’ll be able to crawl out with our heads held high with a new party which puts Britain first.
Unlike Cameron I won’t be compromsing my beliefs by voting for him.
Sad to say, but I think you may be right. UKIP will take the Eurosceptics along with them and in some marginals it might be the difference between a Labour instead of a Tory being elected. Brown is licking his lips this morning knowing DC had little alternative other than do what he has on the referendum issue. What a crazy state of affairs the Government does the deed and the opposition get the blame. This country is f”cked and NuLabour is 100% to blame and the british people are going to let them get away with it. Hang your heads in shame if NuLabour hang on to any power at the next GE.
“I imagine the Tory vote will split between the Cameron Appreciation Society and UKIP and Labour will go on to win the next election.”
Is that what you want?
I want to PROTECT the sovereignty of this sovereign Isle.
You cannot do that by voting conservative, labour or liberal.
I wanted to have some tiny shred of faith in Cameron that by “not letting matter rest” he would, somehow, grant us a say on our relationship with the EU. He did not.
So now the next election has effectively become our referendum, as it is the ONLY say we are going to get on our relationship with the EU.
The choice is very very very clear.
Dominated by unelected corrupt quangocrats Europe, or Independence.
Who is to say that the British people, who have been completely ignored and shit upon by the political classes, will not rally to the defence of British Sovereignty once more and by so-doing, evict the corrupt, thieving, lying, fraudulent MPs at the same time.
It is a win-win scenario.
Protect British Sovereignty and sack the incumbent thieving bastards at the same time!!!
I cannot wait!
Why do you never complain about UK bureaucrats aka the civil service? I don’t recall voting for them either….
Oh yes, it’s cause you’re a bigoted xenophobe.
Now f*k off
And you’re typical of the low down c.unting New Labour fucking stooge that got us into this fucking mess in the first place.
The fact that you dont vote for the Civil Serpents didnt stop you politicising the fuckers though did it?
Now YOU fuck off.
Thatcher is a fine one to talk. She signed the Maastricht Treaty.
Major signed that you twat.
Next incorrect fact please
Whatever the facts ‘C*nt of Monte Cristo’ – Thatcher, like Major, Brown, Bliar etc etc are ALL controlled by ahem: ‘them’.
And they are all TRAITORS.
Suky, much as it pains me to support that woman, I believe ” them” led to her downfall for refusing to act in such a traitorous manner. She was a bitch of the highest order and as a Liverpudlian I lived through the consequences,having both Father and Grandfather on strike for long periods fighting over working conditions, rights etc.
My fathers four sons all got university education and made good lives in four corners of the world. Little chance for kids today wuithout huge debt. There was no future in Liverpool and although we all keep a bootle on ice to celebrate her demise we now know she may have been a bitch but she was our bitch! Can’t believe I’m defending her!!:-0
Ps will never vote Tory though
“as a Liverpudlian I lived through the consequences,having both Father and Grandfather on strike for long periods”
But wasn’t that their religion?
When’s ‘Bootle on Ice’ coming to the BBC – can’t wait!
Thatcher signed us up to the Single Market. She also realised after some years in office that the EU and the europhiles were not to be trusted. She was too slow and did too little but at least she was heading in the right direction.
Cameron, on the other hand, still doesn’t get that Lisbon was different to all preceding treaties over the last 35 years. Lisbon makes the EU into a legally independent new state. We can no longer rein in the EU because the UK is now legally just a (small) part of the EU. Our only legal option now is to leave, something Cameron refuses to do.
“something Cameron refuses to do.”
Like it or not, the tories are still ( for now ) the basis of the solution to the EU.
Cameron however, proved without any doubt yesterday, he and the likes of Bill Vague, are at the heart of the problem.
Like his hero Bliar, Cameron cannot be trusted with anything.
I can remember Mags on the campaign trail for the Yes vote for the EEC referendum in 75. Made me laugh, wryly, when she was painting herself as eurosceptic ten years later.
So people aren’t allowed to see the error of their ways and repent?
What a simple creature you must be!
Yes, she also took us into the ERM. But by then she was losing power to the europhiles that still infest the Tory party. And the ERM was fully supported by Labour and Lib Dems. No change there then.
Anticant: Go read the Maastrict Treat and then go read the Lisbon Treaty perhaps then you will know what you are typing about.
Will add, leave yourself about half a day they are very long and much could have been REDACTED.
Don’t forget your tinfoil hat.
This has brought all the loonies out the woodwork.
And lost the Tories the next election.
Hahaha.
Couldn’t happen to a more inept party.
Shame that Labour will have yet another term though.
Mandelson saw this coming from miles away. Like him or loathe him, he is the consummate politician.
We have to thank Hague and Cameron for one thing – they described a President Blair (Holy Tony I) of Europe as a “hostile act”. I understand the European power brokers stitched up a deal in response even though the shop keepers of Europe were praying for the reign of Queen Slot Gob.
Corridors of Powder Puff
How dare you. I have single-handedly saved our car industry and quantatively eased at the same time
Don’t forget rectal fistitude.
Blair would have been a gift for the pro-democracy team. Every time he was on telly as Prez of the EUSSR people would have hated the Lisbon betrayal more.
The Chamberlains trying to stop Blair is what made me think they were going to break their word.
I wonder if Hague has an ebay account.
he is an ebay cnut
Yes he has, but he’s busy finishing off listing an item for Dave.
It will be up for sale later, here’s the description.
Brand new, never used – Cast Iron Guarantee
It’s a little tarnished, but it should polish up well with added bullshit.
Sorry, he won’t get much for it. There are loads of Cast Iron Guarantees lying about out there, squire.
And Brown seems to have a few iron cast ones too…
No they were the One’s Gordon Brown gave away cheap
There is a postal strike on you know. It might be delivered in the next few days. We do have a few million letters in the backlog still to deliver………….
Guido has been told that three weeks ago Margaret Thatcher wrote a personal plea to her great admirer Václav Klaus, to stand firm, in the hope of strengthening his resolve. It was to be delivered by William Hague. It still rests on his desk.
Was that to save Lady T being dragged into the argument, Hague being too busy to go to see the Czech, or simple pragmatism?
Mrs T says – ‘read it – if you think it will help – send it – if not – keep it for posterity’
Would you as the next PM wish to appear to have relied upon Mrs T
Come on ! Time has proven that Mr C’s judgment was right on this letter matter !
ps Guido
- you seem a bit less strategic on Europe – more heat and less light – may I remind you that you have a responsibility to help get the Tories elected
No one has a “responsibility to help get the Tories elected” except Tory party members. Dodge that.
Agreed, and let us not forget that it IS in Cameron’s gift to easily secure an election landslide.
Just simply give us a say, in or out!
It’s a piece of piss!
The ONLY reason for refusing that simple thing is if Cameron, and the senior ranks of the Conservative party do NOT consider the British People worthy of consideration.
IF they do not consider us worthy of consideration on this fundamental issue of our Sovereignty, then I do not consider them to be worthy of my vote!
Nothing at all has changed in my intensely negative feelings against the labour party or their treachery, but Cameron himself is to blame for his own pathetic response to the reality of the Lisbon treaty being ratified into EU law.
Vote UKIP
You have to gain power before you act out your principles.
Softly, softly catchee monkey.
Unfortunately we trusted them to be principled in the past, and it didn’t work out, did it. Devious Eurofanatic antics in the Tory party stretch back to the days of Heath.
Do you /really/ think they’ve changed? I think they’re taking us to be mugs. Again.
That said Cameron’s proposals actually look very reasonable.
I simply don’t trust him to carry them out, especially given that they look to be incompatible with EU law. I don’t think he’s got the gumption to deliver, especially not with Ken Clarke at his elbow.
It’s smoke, just like Labour’s referendum promise.
He gave a time limit of 5 years for the EUSSR to accept his proposals. He has primed the gun ready for an In/Out referendum.
Softly softly, catchee monkey.
Long grass, more like.
Long grass and he hopes long forgotten. Unfortunately for CMD, this one will not go away until it is resolved one way or another. Up until now, his record has been less than impressive and he gives no reason to imagine, that will change.
Tone clone Cam, is as phoney as his hero.
Softly, softly catchee monkey.
AGREED
Softly, softly, losee big chunck of supportee.
Every abstention/vote for UKIP gives Labour a one vote advantage.
Assuming the polling numbers I’ve found are correct, Dave can easily afford to be more robust on Europe and not lose a single point of lead. He just needs the will (we keep getting assurances Dave is a “real” Eurosceptic so he must have that) and the balls to front up to the inevitable outpourings of euphilia any such approach would generate from the usual suspects.
All it takes is some catalysing event to unite those who felt left out of politics, with the Eurosceptics who do vote, and you have a recipe for a UKIP Government.
ONLY 22% of the electorate gave labour a 66 seat majority in 2005.
A measly sodding 22%!
A whopping great 40% did not even vote, because they felt that they had no-one to give their support to who could make any difference.
IF that 40% had voted UKIP they would have won!
That 40% this time is more like 60% now.
Think about that when you write off UKIP, or the B&P!
WE OUTNUMBER THE TORIES AND LABOUR COMBINED!
THAT is the message that needs to go out loud and far and wide.
IF you are pissed off with the mainstream turncoats, and you want to save and protect BRITISH SOVEREIGNTY, then lend your vote, just once, to UKIP.
If you are not satisfied, then vote against them the time after that! At least you will have the freedom to do so.
Vote tory, labour or liberal and who knows what sort of EU instructed totalitarian nightmare we could be living under in 5 years time.
What possible reason is there to go “Softly, softly”? It is the EU that has caught us, not us catching the EU. We are trying to escape, the EU already knows where we live, so there is every advantage in being as noisy and resolute as possible.
Anyway you have to have principles before “You have to gain power before you act out your principles”.
Yeah, true, but in the current climate of intense distrust of all things political, and the knowledge that the promises and locks that Cameron outlined yesterday are as useful as a chocolate tea-pot, then surely we need something far more…..concrete than a wish-list of the unobtainable.
It amounted to “trust us, we will not allow the current structure of the EU to change” THEY CANNOT STOP IT! All they can do is accept it, or allow us to reject it in its entirety.
Sorry, but how the hell do you expect us to trust ANY of the mainstream parties at the moment?
The tories should give us a legally binding notice of intent that they can be sued over, or get the hell out of the way!
Watch Gordon Brown admitting to Labour’s failure here :
I did n’t think we’d done that well.
Very good Mister Steve, very good
Actually Liebore has done quite enough:
- ratted on the Lisbon referendum
- destroyed centuries old civil liberties
- vastly extended the surveillance state
- sold our gold at rock bottom prices
- destroyed our pensions
- taken us into 2 wars by lying
- created an unsustainable property boom
- created the worst bust since the 1930s
- ruined our banking system by cretinous regulation
- government debt the worst since WW2
- increased taxes massively
- no better or worse services now cost much more
- let Tony Bliar loose on the world
three wars, Sierra Leone
Four.
You forget Kosovo and the illegal bombing of Serbia.
Get back to your blog!
unlimited immigration leading to unsustainable growth in population?
Take a look at the Pechkamm video on YouTube, keep the heart pills ready though!
- ruined our banking system by cretinous regulation
Surely you mean cretinous deregulation?
Since the further deregulation of US and UK banks… we have lived the bankers dream… and now we are all going to get the opportunity to pay for the freedon of bankers.
Too many vested interests in the world… on all sides.
Apart from multi-national companies that would like to create a slave-wage world where we can all work for $2/day… who else is driving the European experiment? Who has drafted the Lisbon Treaty? On what grounds? W-h-e-r-e i-s i-t g-o-i-n-g? AND WHY?
All you tories who think this is a labour problem, need longer memories. You did get us into this shit.
All you labour who think this is a tory problem… 10 years you’ve had to do anything about it…
The same vested interests seem to operate whichever set of cnuts we “elect”… How can that be?
I have friends who think it’s a great idea ‘cos they don’t have to change their money when they go abroad… FFS… Apparently I’m paranoid…
The docile masses just queue up to be f*king herded.
The 21st Century, when the slaves beg the Pharaoh for work
Ex-lefty, you are so correct.
I caught up with an old college friend of mine last week. We had not seen each other in 22 years. I was looking forward to having a few drinks and getting stuck into a decent political debate with him again, as we argued constantly back in college. He was a total socialist and I was a true blue tory.
When the conversation turned to politics we were both in complete and total agreement about EVERYTHING. The politicians and the media are puppets of an international elite. The old left/right paradigm is a false dichotomy designed to divide and conquer whilst the real criminals and demons run amok!
I do NOT support a fascist, or a Marxist, or even a Marxist-fascist new world order, nor any stepping stones towards one.
We are born free, sovereign and independent. I shall never capitulate to the evil people who wish to succeed where Hitler failed in removing that sovereignty.
Do they want power or not? Off your high horses. Brown and Blair have stitched this one up tight, the oppostion have to adjust, it’s called politics. The Tories have lost more than one general election whilst banging on about Europe. As for UKIP, they are a one trick wonder, a rest home for angry old men and past their sell by date conservatives. Got to be realistic.
Now careful with those fireworks
Europe is the Achilles heel. Labour have signed us up, stitched us up without blinking in order to create rifts within the Tories. It is their only way to divide the vote – hope the Tory voters will move to UKIP or the unmentionable party.
The option now is to try and make the best of the desolate landscape left by Labour. A referendum now is pointless unless it is Europe in or out which again is fairly pointless.
Labour are very clever at pushing the blame onto someone else, while all this kerfuffle over Cameron’s so-called u-turn is going on, the real slimey liebour leader bastards are getting away with it, again! Still think we should have an “in or out” referendum.
Ultimately if the Tories are in power and the EU are shafting the UK then that would be the time to say referendum time, in or out. The vote would probably be out so cannot this threat be used for bargaining in the EU. The only problem is that Brown has screwed the economy so much that the expense of getting out of the EU will be unaffordable. President Blair will also make it difficult. As I say we have been had by labour.
Also O/T did you hear Mickey Clark on Pravda 5 this morning – saying the only winners in QE is the Banks. Making money on gilts and not using the funds to lend to UK plc
Can the IMF afford to come?
common sense at last
Labour are not clever, Cameron is inept.
Cameron may or may not be clever time will tell but one thing is for sure NuLabour are the inept ones. One thing is for certain the EU will not favour a Tory government and will know it cannot get away with the same things that it can with the likes of Blair/Brown.
If the Tory vote gets split, then who benefits? New Labour. Mandleson must be loving this.
The best, the only way to get this Marxist behemoth out of our lives, and out of our children’s lives, is to vote them into oblivion at the next election.. A divided opposition vote is no vote at all. The worst possible scenario for New Labour would be a Conservative landslide, and this bickering over Europe could change that into a hung Parliament or a Lib-Lab last-moment stitch-up. Is this what you want? Because it’s what you’ll get.
I would like to suggest a strategy, and a slogan: Fuck Labour, Fuck Europe.
Home Front first.
Vote Conservative in the General Election, and, overwhelmingly, UKIP in the MEP elections. If you still want to vote UKIP come the GE, just picture Mandleson’s satisfaction as the poll results come in. This is our last chance. Don’t blow it.
“Vote Conservative in the General Election, and, overwhelmingly, UKIP in the MEP elections. If you still want to vote UKIP come the GE, just picture Mandleson’s satisfaction as the poll results come in. This is our last chance. Don’t blow it.”
This is indeed the LAST CHANCE. The last chance to save British Sovereignty.
You CANNOT do that by voting labour, or liberal, or Conservative.
Cameron has just put the tories on the SAME SIDE as Mandelson. You can see his self satisfied, smug grin at the thought of all that British Sovereignty being given away to Brussels by the TORIES every bit as much by Labour!
You cannot vote against Mandelson by voting Conservative. After all, Mandelson himself admitted as much when he said he could easily work with a Conservative Government.
Of course he can, THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME MASTER!
The only way to guarantee British Sovereignty is to vote against labour, the tories and liberals.
END OF!
“Do they want power or not?”
You miss the point completely, whoever is in government post Lisbon is not in power.
Parliament becomes a subordinated administration centre for all future EU directives, nothing more. Power, real power, exists only in a foreign place, excercised by unelected, unremovable and unaccountable commissars, who are protected and enjoy legal immunity from prosecution.
The dolts in Westminster, whatever their alleged politics, have no say or ability to stop any future EU directives becoming law, they have given away all power in return for nothing.
The status of the UK as a sovereign, independent, democracy, has finally ended.
Cameron can promise the world and the moon, none of it can be delivered of course, because our right to make any law the EU does not want, has been given away.
“Power for what purpose?” – Churchill
Having the power to either do f*ck all, or the wrong things, is pointless.
LOOK OUT FOR THAT HORSE! **KEERRUUNCH** IT JUST TRAMPLED DAVE!
how tragic
Dave needs to make his mind up about the EU. IN or OUT?
The other members are not going to put up with a protracted distraction from the next UK government, that’s assuming that he will be forming the next government, which is by no means certain given all that is happening.
If it’s to be IN, then dump the sceptics and get on with it.
If it’s to be OUT, then get out and the sooner the better.
Either way, make your mind up whilst your support is dwindling. We don’t want another ditherer. We’ve got one already and look where that got us…
“If it’s to be IN, then dump the sceptics and get on with it.”
Unfortunately for “cast iron” Dave, the majority of his party and a majority of the country are sceptics.
Dave needs them to gain power, or alternatively not.
I’m pleased. I like being close to Europe. It’s a step closer to a united world. I’m glad to see the power of our politicians being diluted. I’m glad to see the annoyance among the ghastly people who post here.
Yesh, thatsh correct.
Can I be your friend, Mr Bernie?
Better brush up on the Koran then.
Idiot.
Yes, because it’s a well known fact that the Lisbon Treaty makes the Koran compulsory for all European citizens.
Idiot.
My comment was regarding a ‘united world’ and the difficulty of reconciling this with demands for a Muslim Caliphate – nothing to do with Lisbon.
Happy now?
Thought not…
No, how could I be happy with all those jihaddists under the bed?
Dare I say it?
If we had the Euro, Gordon wouldnt be able to print them.
You have my permission to dare. But it is idiotic all the same. If we had the euro we would have had the euro interest rates too. That means we would have had an even worse property boom. That would mean we would have an even worse bust.
Such utopian nonsense.
The Treaty of Lisbon is a step closer to another European war. Was Yugoslavia “a step closer to a united world?”
And, let us never forget, Yugoslavia was always held up as the big, shining, progressive example of successful inter-ethnic cohesion… up until the early nineties, anyway.
In that case Bernie you must be sorry Hitler lost – that was what he was trying to do as well!!
Idiot.
You cannot unite the world by forcing them together, people will just fight.
You cannot make people share by stealing from them either.
Your faith in Marx is delusional, and will inevitably end up killing people.
Karl Marx was one of ‘theirs’ too…
“a united world.” dream on. I’m British and I want to stay that way, I don’t want it to say “European Citizen” on my passport, Europe is a geographical expression and should not be a state. Happy to trade with Europe and go on holiday there, and that’s it, i do not want to keep funding a huge and wasteful bureaucracy that doesn’t benefit me and overrides British laws and custom with rules that derive from a non anglo-saxon cultural tradition.
Define ghastly? oh, you mean all people who might disagree with your view – yes I guess you would like the EUSSR scene Bernie.
So Mr Bernie; this “united world” you talk about? How would it be governed? By the UN? With the finance minsiter from Zimbabwe, because it’s their turn, and a Home Secretary from North Korea because we need someone from that part of the world to maintain “diversity”.
No thanks. If ever there was a body designed to make the eu parliament and the House of Commons look good by comparison, it’s the UN General Assembly.
Cast iron, I don’t think so:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Lisbon-ref/
You deserved much better than Snotty’s follow-through of a reply Kalvis.
I never knew that David Cammermoran is autistic til today.
I expect we will be joining the euro very soon.
Can we have Blairs head on the coinage.
I think cast iron would be a suitable material for the 1euro coin
Sorry. Head’s too big. We do have a cast iron post outside, though…
President Blair (hallelujah) and slotty on the stamps, the final nail in the Post Office coffin!
couldn’t have Cherie-Antoinette on the notes though, her gob’s too wide.
Or ‘fool’s gold’ perhaps ?
Looks to me that Cameron might well snatch defeat from the jaws of victory – just like Lord asshole of assholes, Kinnock. He certainly doesn’t get my vote as things stand.
So a referendum is pointless is it Dave? Not if the question is ‘in or out’. That might not be a gimme but, particularly if Blair is president, I’d bet on the out vote- and where would that leave Blair and co?
So little boys, what issue do you think Labour and the Lib Dems will concentrate on during the next 4 years?
Well done! Very good.
And what do you think the electorate thinks of a party thats split?
Thats right, very well done boys.
Now, this one is a bit more complicated.
What do you think happens to a small country with an ageing population, a deminishing influence on world affairs, a huge debt, a not very special relationship with a friend who has their own agenda, and the prospect of some very big bullies looking for a fight 25 years down the line?
Now take your time.
That rights, well done boys.
Just for you Eileen.
Hmmmm. It’s got its merits.
Being in the EUSSR
Makes a small country into a insignificant region.
Makes our population even more costly to citizens through the HRA and immigration.
Increases our debt (1.2 billion per month for the EUSSR).
Harms what is still a better relationship than ANY (former)country in Europe.
Prevents us from standing up to those bullies, as the EUSSR policy one of appeasement!
Being in the EUSSR solves none of the problems you stated.
Eileen – so you hanker after empire and lots of “influence”, do you? Well most countries in the world are smaller than us but still retain their independence.
I doubt whether it would take 25 years Eileen. The attacks will become more likely the more feeble we are – which makes them pretty likely within a very short time frame.
It might also be worthwhile to ponder what becomes of states that are trying to unite and start to squabble and then some wish to secede.
Of course, politicians will find others to blame for such sorry events. After all, they are so insulated from reality that they can blame ’systems’ for not demanding and enforcing the most basic of decent conduct.
I have grown to loathe the word ’system’ – but not nearly as much as the visceral contempt I have for politicians.
Oh no! Not the old “we need to be part of a big thing or we’re fucked” argument again.
How many times do we have to repeat this?
Compare these two islands.
Singapore, once an impoverished part of Malaysia. Seceded in 1965 and now a rich independent nation.
Newfoundland, once a seperate entity but subsumed into Canada.
Everyone’s heard of Lee Kuan Yu and Singapore. Who was the last Newfie to be recognised on the world stage? Sorry, let me rephrase that. Who was the last Newfie to be recognised on the Canadian stage?
Don’t try and be patronising Eileen – you don’t have what it takes.
The tory party has NOT split. It has just shrunk, a LOT!
The Cameroons = euro Puppets
Guido, you didnt’ really expect otherwise did you? On every issue of any significance all the major parties act, even if they don’t talk, in exactly the same way. You cannot get a fag paper between them. This is not even close to being a democracy. We are not even close to running our own lives. And there isn’t a cat in hell’s chance of any significant change in our relationship to the EU – ie, that we are bent over and being fucked – coming about via any party political means.
We’ve lost. We’ve lost because we weren’t able to convince ourselves of the truth. This *is* a grand cross-party, cross-border conspiracy. It really *is* the culmination of a decades long plan to hoodwink and ensnare the British people. And they really *are* all in it together.
We’ve lost. Give up.
For now…
There is no reason to give up.
I’d say “not being able to win” is a pretty good reason to give up.
As I say, for now.
keep your powder dry.
We have NOT lost!
Get out and tell everyone that is pissed off with the current incumbents that they are the majority. A MASSIVE majority.
Do they want change? Hell yes!
Are they willing to do next to nothing at all to get that change? Hell yes.
Tell them ALL that we have more numbers than Labour and tory combined and ALL they must do to effect change and defend and protect our sovereignty is to put a little cross on a little piece of paper next to UKIP or B&P.
WE MUST VOTE!
WE CAN WIN!
WE MUST WIN!
True enough.
It is what they do, not what they say, that matters.
And tory and labour alike have done exactly the same thing for the last 40 years. Bitch and moan about Europe in opposition and when in power, appease and capitulate and piss away our sovereignty exactly like their predecessors.
I have a Lifetime of experience of what both parties actually DO to inform me that the both tories or labour will finally effectively eradicate what little sovereignty we have left. It is their continuous unchanging record in power for 4 decades that proves it!
Vote UKIP.
‘ello. Private Bob here, the latest in a long line of outstanding Labour Offense Secretaries.
Myself and my fellow defence ministers and junior officials have been unable to appear in public or answer media questions about the latest totally avoidable loss of five soldiers’ lives because we are so busy.
We all have our angle grinders and oxy-acetylene torches out doing more ‘elicopter uparmouring work, constructing new ‘elicopters and blast protectors for army vehicles.
What I can say is that now that the army has fully reconstructed the country, and our “exit strategy” training programme for Afghan “security forces” is proving so successful, we are introducing a “love the invaders” training and re-education programme for the whole Afghani population, which we expect to be complete in about three generations’ time.
I will be back to address you all soon when we have come up with a new reason for our presence in Afghanistan, and a new definition of what would constitute victory, as all the other justifications and reasons we have given thus far have proved to be false.
The British Army take all the shit we fling at them without the slightest whimper – just like the British people, and they just come back for more, and then more. It really is a dream for Labour politicians. Oh, is the microphone still on?
Very, very disappointed with Cameron.
I can give him a cast iron guarantee that he won’t be getting my vote at the election. UKIP will get my vote.
He’ll still win of course, due to the hatred most sensible people have for Brown, but he won’t have anything like the landslide that f*ckwit Blair had in ‘97.
I also hate NuLibor – BUT
A VOTE FOR UKIP IS A VOTE FOR NULIBOR
A vote for Dave is a vote for continuing the policies of Labour.
I’m voting UKIP in the hope the Conservative party employs a conservative to lead them. Until they do, they’re not getting my vote.
Not a sheet of Bronco between any of the three main parties
No, a vote for UKIP is a vote for UKIP. The EU policy of the 3 main parties is to stay in. What is the point of voting for any party that wants us governed from Brussels by the EU?
And a vote for Conservatives is a vote to stay in the EU. Forever. No thanks. UKIP for me too.
Me TOO!
But lets not forget who put us in this mess in the first place by not giving us a vote as they promised – The Labour Government.
About time the media tackled the Government and got off Camerons back, I’ve yet to see anyone from the Labour on TV being questioned about this.
It is akin to Cameron saying he would not sell the countries Gold Reserves only for Gordon to give it away, then Cameron is held to account by the media for not staying to his word.
Spin spin spin… someone is working overtime here.
Yes. You would think that Labour are already in opposition, in fact they have behaved for 12 years as if they were the oppositon rather than the Government. Gordon signed the treaty even though he knew it was wrong, and a direct breach of a manifesto commitment (even more serious than a stupid cast iron guarantee), for two reasons:
1) Cowardice in the face of Merkel and Sarkozy
2) To manoeuvre Cameron into an impossible position.
Utterly disgraceful, like everything else this government has done. It saddens me to see the abuse going backwards and forwards here between people whose ends are fundamentally the same but who disagree about how to achieve them – it means the scum have got what they wanted.
The ends are not the same. We want out, the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems want in. What is so difficult to understand in that?
EXACTLY !
Cameron needs to channel the uproar back onto those trecherous Labour KOONTS
But INSTEAD of channeling all this hate against labour, HE HAS ALIGNED HIMSELF WITH LABOUR INSIDE THE EU!
What is so difficult to understand about that?
Of course it was LABOUR that sold us out, but almost nobody is suggesting voting for labour. WE STILL HATE LABOUR, OK?
But now, we ALSO hate Cameron’s response to labour!!!
Cameron could EASILY have killed off the UKIP and BNP threat. EASILY!
HE FAILED! HE SOLD US OUT! HE is paying the price for that unforgivable betrayal!
But INSTEAD of channeling all this hate against labour, HE HAS ALIGNED HIMSELF WITH LABOUR INSIDE THE EU!
What is so difficult to understand about that?
Of course it was LABOUR that sold us out, but almost nobody is suggesting voting for labour. WE STILL HATE LABOUR, OK?
But now, we ALSO hate Cameron’s response to labour!!!
Cameron could EASILY have killed off the UKIP and B&P threat. EASILY!
HE FAILED! HE SOLD US OUT! HE is paying the price for that unforgivable betrayal!
yes the fucking labour loving media
Of course you’re right.
But what has annoyed people I think is the realisation that we’re just going to get more of the same with Cameron.
People were fooled once with Blair, but are not going to be fooled again…
exactly!
But INSTEAD of channeling all this hate against labour, HE HAS ALIGNED HIMSELF WITH LABOUR INSIDE THE EU!
What is so difficult to understand about that?
Of course it was LABOUR that sold us out, but almost nobody is suggesting voting for labour. WE STILL HATE LABOUR, OK?
But now, we ALSO hate Cameron’s response to labour!!!
Cameron could EASILY have killed off the UKIP and B&P threat. EASILY!
HE FAILED! HE SOLD US OUT! HE is paying the price for that unforgivable betrayal!
True. He’s lost my vote too.
Guido fails to understand that the realpolitik engrained in a Conservative mind set means that they automatically believes favour pragmatism over gestures.
And a good thing too.
There is no unilateral way of rescinding the Treaty – unless we abandon membership full stop and the economic effects of doing so in the present climate would be catastrophic.
We’ve already got an economic catastrophe in this Country.
It’s called Labour policies.
The alternative is to stay in and ignore the EU rules, as the French an Germans do. Look at the whole Opel business, where German workers are now on strike because GM has scuppered Merkel’s plan to bribe the Canadians into shutting down British plants rather than German ones.
Good innit?
Yip !
Serves the Soshalist Bastards right.
They’ll have to deal with their own shit, instead of blaming Mrs Thatcher.
Good god yes. We’d have to stop importing all those German, French Italian, Spanish and Czech built cars. Then what would we do? Have to make our own I suppose.
Not to mention having to do without those 2million East Europeans that have been stealing our jobs for the last ten years.
Then what would we do with the £4bn in subsidies we currently give to the Irish to undercut our own manufacturing?
How would the British housewife manage not being able to spend extra money paying the eU trade tarriffs on Jamaican bananas, New Zealand lamb and South African apples?
Getting out of the EU would be the best thing that ever happened to the UK economy. The whole thing is set up so that Britain bails out basket-case economies like Greece, Spain and Ireland thus allowing them to undercut our own producers with our own money and then fuck us all in the ass for good measure. How can getting out of that be bad for the UK economy?
The pound would plummet, which would give us a massive opportunity to invest in OUR manufacturing sectors and give us a huge advantage as an exporter, it would lead to a balance in the trade deficit and who knows? Maybe even generate a profit!
Hey, we could set our own employment and industry laws to benefit US, control our own fishing and our own agriculture and oil and gas…
We could become a tax-haven for the billionaires of the world and make a LOT of money.
we have a stronger and more battle ready military than any other EU country, we have nuclear weapons and nuclear power generation and a massive section of world banking right here too.
Hmmmmmm
Play this right and we CAN be a world player! Yeah, let’s go independent! UKIP for me!!!
Whats wrong with abandoning membership? Others in Europe manage quite well thank you but the Brits are a bunch of wimps. Think they can’t go it alone. Bunch of socialist posers
The FOCUS needs to be on those LYING LABOUR BASTARDS that sold us out and are now looking SMUG .
We’ll see how smug the bastards are next year when they get their P45’s
I wouldn’t count on that. The really scary thing about all this is that Cameron might have just pushed enough eurosceptic Tory voters in the direction of UKIP that Labour could actually win the next election.
Horrifying thought, isn’t it?
And I suspect many more might simply stay at home on polling day, unable to face the prospect of voting for Wavey Davey
It was Mandelson’s plan all along.
The Tories and the rest of the rabid right wing have amply demonstrated why they are not fit to govern our country.
If they can get caught out by Mandelson, what chance do they have of defending our interests against the Americans, Chinese, Indians and Russians?
Zero.
RIP Right Wing.
Its a hobsons choice job – don’t be misled by the ukip trolls targeting Guidos’ thread.
For every past his sell by date Tory who makes a song and dance about voting for ukip and joining the 3% , there is probably a dozen floating votors / previous nulab voters , in the 25% who might still vote labour but who see DC as a credible alternative.
( This based on observation at Ferret & Strumpet , 0 ukip defectors, and local Cons do , 1 definite 1 maybe defector).
What people want, what they really really want, is to see brown and his party annihilated, and a bloke called nigel, with a charisma bypass and a dodgy hair do , isn’t going to make that happen.
I chuckled – thanks
I also agree
Cameron isn’t exactly Mr Charisma either.
The UKIP trolls will have grown in number today. Yesterday a Tory today UKIP rules OK.
No voter is past his sell by date – that’s just arrogance. Cameron’s blunder and wimpishness have seriously harmed his chances of getting in.
HAHAHA 25% for labour? you are having a laugh!
labour only got 22% of the electorate last time…
They’ll be lucky to get 15% next time.
Can you not feel the FURY building in this country? Are you BLIND?
People are finally waking up to the very painful fact that four decades of labour and tory treason have sold us out!
There is ONE last chance to save this country before it is annihilated, chopped up into small, powerless, bland bureaucratic regions.
I think that will be enough to motivate people to get out and vote to save the UK.
IF not then this country deserves to go down the last shit-hole slide to EU oblivion.
hang the press as well
“The one thing that is constant is that conservatives believe in furthering the national interest”
Er, was that a typo? Didn’t you mean to write “their self interest” instead of “the national interest”?
Its a mindset politicians have. Strangely party political of Guido to still believe it of the conservatives.
The national interest of Israel perhaps.
Well, now, Cameron, too, has EUrinated all over us! He has forced me, at least, to treat the coming General Elaction as an EU referendum. I HATE HIM for forcing me to vote UKIP!
Ian
voting UKIP improves Nulibor’s chances
PLEASE DONT VOTE UKIP
Get Cameron to grow a pair then, and UKIP will disappear tomorrow. Easy.
So why doesn’t he do it?
FUCK OFF BACK TO YOUR COCK FEST!
Funny how the clown brigade forget how many labour voters are turning to the bee enn pee. That should temper the Tory UKIP split nicely.
Vote UKIP and let Gordon clean up his own mess. It will be the only way that will force him to accept Keynes was a fraud
Not quite. Brown is incapable of cleaning up his mess. And Keynes did not say spend in the boom times and spend even more in the bust, he said save in the good times and spend it when the bad times come.
I am now so pissed off, I want to see the nauseous NuIebor in again.
Then we can all witness Soshalism truly fall apart, whilst destroying the Nation that was Britain which, as we can see, is what many idiots out there support.
Now they can find out what really lies at the end of the Soshalist Rainbow
Well, it is hard to see what else Cameron can do post ratification – never forget that it was Labour that promised in its General Election Manifesto to give us a referendum on the EU Constitution aka The Lisbon Treaty. Never forget that it was this Labour Government which broke its solemn Manifesto pledge to the British people when it denied us the promised referendum.
What would a referendum achieve now, now that the Lisbon Treaty is signed, sealed and delivered, operating in law, this country having been sold out by the treachery of Brown and his signature on the treaty?
I am Eurosceptic, but I think Cameron has outlined a reasonable, pragmatic and above all realistic approach to the situation we are now in. Killing off this disgusting shambles of a Labour Government must be our only priority in the coming months!
Withhold the money!
Rubbish. If you examine Cameron’s speech you will see that he cannot carry out what he is claiming he can do, legally. He seems to entirely forget that he must work within the straitjacket of the new EU constitution brought about by Lisbon.
Cameron cannot change one jot of one law in the USA. Likewise he cannot unilaterally change one law in the EU because, after Lisbon, it, too, is now a fully legally independent state, the laws of which have superiority over UK law.
Cameron apologist is a good name for you
“Well, it is hard to see what else Cameron can do post ratification”
Shame he didn’t thnk of that when he made his cast-iron promise in 2007. The treaty was due to be ratified at the time in 2008. So he knew full well when he made his “cast-iron” promise that it wasn’t worth zilch. Not only is he a liar, he knows he’s a liar and he hasn’t even the competence to lie properly.
He is a twat of the highest order. He has exposed his total inability. If you think this moron will be any better than Brown or Blair you are totally deluded. I give him 5 years to trash the Tory party reputation for economic competence and then both Labour and the Tories will be unelectable. Nigel Farrage and Nick Griffin will look quite appealing by then, especially as Britian will be overrun by a further 2million immigrants of dubious background because that is something else that Cameron can do nothing about while we are in the EU.
Fred said right
Agreed
And – shouldn’t we call for a Public Inquiry into the differences between Lisbon & the proposed Constitution – identifying the implications of NiLibour’s failure to have a referendum?
This would be a sound base to move forward – re-negotiate or get out!
Pie in the sky. There is no chance of getting all 26 other states with the EU to agree to giving the UK more. And Cameron has already thrown away his best card by refusing to even threaten to leave.
Cameron must have done at least something right yesterday. Afterall he has been attacked by the French over his stance.
No, that’s just show. They can see as well as us that Cameron is a wimp.
Nah, it’s all eurotrash smoke and mirrors.
Cameron does something the europhiles love but his own people hate. The europhiles then manufacture an “attack” on Cameron and we’re all supposed to stand up for him.
In fact the froggie said exactly the same things Cameron’s erstwhile supporters are saying: His promises are unworkable.
There’s no point in arguing that the signing of the Lisbon Treaty was unlawful. Parliament can do what it likes and we voted this lot in. The signing was dishonest and wrong, yes, but not unlawful.
The UK has lost a battle. We have to ensure we’re better prepared for the next one. Meanwhile, Tories should accept that Europe is not a big issue with most of the electorate; it’s a Tory obsession, quite rightly, but there are few votes in it. At the moment, the evidence suggests that we cannot govern ourselves and ought to let somebody else do it for us. If we can correct that (as Thatcher did in 1979) we will have a basis on which to take back power.
agree wholeheartedly
Yes, Dave has done enough to keep the vast majority of Conservative voters onboard.
Bye bye Labour.
Sure there are few votes in it. But there are a lot of votes in being honest and competent. Cameron has shown he is neither. And since when has offering the people choice been a vote loser?
Don’t you see, he could have offered us a choice on the Lisbon Treaty by offering us a choice on Europe. But he’s not going to do that because he doesn’t want to risk us saying we want out. So what does that say about Cameron’sreal viewson the EU? Wake up for god’s sake!
Spot on! Wise up everyone – there is no point being purist about this, voting UKIP and ushering in the disaster (for this country) of a Lib-Lab pact after the next election. Getting rid of Labour has to be our only and all consuming priority for the next 7 months or so!
Hard to motivate the troops when the general stops leading from the front and starts stabbing them in the back
Sadly I agree. As Tebbit said this morning, the priority must be to get rid of this wretched government. In the long term, maybe it makes no bloody difference. Maybe they’re all int he same damn plot. But for my early morning sanity, I need labour ministers off the air. I cannot abide these fuckers any more. Fired, or replaced by the Tories, or dead, or fed to pigs – I don’t really mind. I just want them gone forever. I’ll do anything necessary to get that done.
But Cameron will just be another wretched government.
I’m trying not to think about that
Agreed – Sir William
And – shouldn’t we call for a Public Inquiry into the differences between Lisbon & the proposed Constitution – identifying the implications of NiLibour’s failure to have a referendum?
This would be a sound base to move forward – re-negotiate or get out!
Why do you feel the need to put all your posts in bold? Is it that you’re a narcissistic hoon who thinks your views are more important than everyone else’s so you put them in bold to make them stand out?
Another 5 years of Brown,
Makes the blod run cold!!!
It’s freezing out here, sod this jogging lark!
Cameron isn’t going to be able to move on from this as painlessly as he seems to think. Not least, ‘cast iron guarantee’ has now entered the politcal lexicon as a synonym for ‘lie’ – not exactly a promising start.
It’s occurred to me that Cameron’s spinmeisters must really have been asleep on the job.
Look at what Cameron has to be compared with: Labour have massive form for telling huge porkies (WMDs in 45 minutes? legislated to prevent top-up fees? etc etc). And when it comes to this specific issue, Labour again indulged in an absolutely massive lie: they promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty which they then made a deliberate decision not to honour.
So how on earth does Cameron end up being portrayed as the dishonest one? He is dishonest, of course, but I think Cameron’s dishonesty is orders of magnitude less serious than Labour’s.
Brownfinger is worse than Cameron, you are correct.
But two wrongs do not make a right.
But his guarantee was only “cast iron” whilst the Lisbon Takeover of the UK remained unratified. That is quite straightforward is it not?
If he’d said that when he made the guarantee, this would have been a whole different story.
Yup, from a spin point of view it’s been handled unbelievably badly
It was naive – but in context; at the time the talk was of an Election and other states looked nailed on to say No. Therefore wasn’t such a bad shout. However now looks bad but fundamentally he was not deceiving anyone, he wanted a referendum but has been outmanouevered by Labour seeing the weak spot. I can imagine Labour doing all sorts of deals in the EU to get Poland, ireland and Cthe Czechs onboard.
I think Cameron might just surprise us all and be a really good PM – it’s years too late to be talking abouut in or out of europe. What we need is someone who will shake up the euro institutions, make it more accountable, get the books signed off finally and end the troughing that has been going on.
I am heartened by the fact that there isnt an overbearing expectation on Cameron that will fail to live up to like Blair or Obama. Remember there wasnt a great appetite for Thatcher at the start of her tenure.
I am sorry for your blind faith that Cameron will (a) be a good PM or (b) have any urge or inclination to shake up euro institutions.
He does not have now, or will have in the future, any means of doing so.
The UK has no sanctions that can be used against the EU any more.
We do make quite a large financial contribution, and as I understand it, the EU can’t march into the UK and sieze assets. That’s a big lever.
Have you read the Lisbon Treaty? The EU will shake us up, there is no way of us shaking up the EU.
No legal way.
It’s a pity the Tory faithful can’t show the same loyalty towards this country as they show towards their precious fucking party.
People are sick to the back teeth of the mainstream parties, but to the party faithful they just simply refuse to see it.
It’s highly likely that Cameron will be a crap clone of Blair.
I agree – after yesterday’s announcement, my rage makes me want to vote UKIP, BUT, they will never form a government and the idea of another five years of Brown et al, or a Lib/Lab pact, is too awful to imagine. One thing the Cams do have going for them is that generally they have a far better calibre of front-bencher in terms of intellect & education. Let’s be honest, Bob Aintworthit as a Sec of State – truly unbelievable.
Hey – I just L O V E my protege – EUSSR ‘Dave’ and his minions.
They bend to my will – just like all the others.
They know where my interests lie.
‘cos I’m a straight kinda guy – and I need the dosh – though the missus does help with the housekeeping,
‘n that
innit
Blair, Brown, Cameron and Clegg are all names that should be remembered with the same affection as Quisling. No politicians have bothered to read the Lisbon Treaty, or if they have, are not bothered about the impact on the UK.
Cameron’s line for future treaties is risible. There will be no further treaties. None are required. No negotiations about payments to the EU, pay up or be fined.
Westminster has become an irrelevance. The UK laws are now made in Brussels.
November 4th 2009. UK RIP.
no it was signed in Dec 2007 by BROWN and MilliVanilli
Quisling Brown may have signed the treaty in December 2007, it became effective after the Czech capitulation.
The Czechs were forced to capitlate by their own courts – the whole thing is one massive stitch up.
The earliest it can become effective is 1st December 2009 – the first day of the month following all 27 signatures.
and the thing that is going to stop it is?
While nearly all of us agree in principle that the lack of a referendum has been a trecherous act of capitulation before the EU, there are more issues to consider.
Cameron and Hague are right in the way that they chose to persue this. Principles are damn nearly useless in opposition, only in power can they be put into operation.
This country, despite Labour’s best attempts to import a pliant voter force, is still a conservative country (small c), and many of the eastern European immigrants are not playing ball with labour’s plans. I still expect a change of government next year.
Let’s see what a Conseravtive government achieves in power before we start to cry about lost principles.
The voice of sanity!
What do people who are not head in the sand lefties really want?
Do they want the Tories to fail to achieve a majority at the next election and for there to be a ruinous lib-lab pact which would sell out the country for ever!
Or do they want a Conservative Government which although not ideologically pure and perfect, at least has the interests of this country and its existing citizens close to its heart?
I’m anything but a leftie, but Never Again will I consider voting for an heir to Blair like Cameron.
He doesn’t have the interest of this country at heart, only the interest of the landowning party and his Etonian mates.
Cameron has now demosntrably proven himself to be duplicitous and incapable of conservative leadership.
What’s the point of voting for a party you hope might improve once it gets in. Some chance !
Much better, Not to Vote at all, if you can’t find any party you can support, and if the Soshalists get in again, so what. Let’s see them shovel their own shit, together with the morons who voted for them in the hope of more cheap debt.
Spot on …
You obviously like your spots, as well as copy and pasting exactly what you previously commented. A vote for Tory is a vote for more EU. Brussels is now more important than Westminster unfortunately.
Exactly. If it all goes pear shaped hold an in or out referendum. However we would not be able to afford the get out clauses
Just print the money to pay them.
No chance of Conservative MEPs presenting a bill at Westminster. Or was that a typo?
Some years ago my mother was invited to a local conservative meeting at which Mr Hague was speaking; she asked me if there was anything I wanted to ask him, and being relatively ignorant at the time I relayed the offer to Chris at the Devils Kitchen. He relayed a question on whether a conservative government would impose a whip on any EU referenda (or something along those lines*) to which Mr Hagues eventual reply was a firm yes, there would be a 3-line in favour.
For all their bleating about EU skepticism they are as gushing as the rest of them.
* it’s on DK’s website somewhere but so far I’ve been unable to find it; a link would be nice.
No offence, but aren’t you contradicting yourself?
You asked what a Conservative GOVERNMENT would do. We haven’t had a conservative government since 1997, so the conservatives can’t DO anything.
The clue is in the subjunctive, ‘What a Conservative Governmet WOULD do’
This doesn’t mean Will do, it means what ‘they Would do, should they be in government’.
Simples !
I think people need a bit of reality injecting into all this emoting about “betrayal” etc etc
1)-the only betrayal here is that by Blair and latterly Brown and the Labour Party aided and abetted by Clegg and the LibDems no one else – not Cameron – not the Conservative Party.
2) an Opposition is powerless to introduce a referendum on the price of fish let alone Lisbon and Cameron has done all that he could realistically be expected to do as the leader of the Opposition
3)- a recent poll of Tory Marginals listed Europe and Lisbon as Twelfth on the list of voters priorities.Despite what people are posting here Europe is NOT an issue with the majority of the electorate and will not be a clincher on who wins the next election
4) UKIP will never win enough MPs in an election to do anything.At best they may get one MP(Farage) elected so all a vote for UKIP will achieve is either a “hung parliament” which effectively means a continuance of Labour in office with the help of the LibDems or a Labour victory.Neither of those two options will do anything to try and resolve the issue of UK Sovereignty
5) Likewise the right’s “pin up boy” Dan Hannan will also achieve nothing.He will certainly never be PM although he could do untold damage to the Conservative Party ever achieving power . Europe does NOT win elections but party splits certainly lose them
6) The country is almost bankrupt due to Brown and Labour’s failure on the economy.If Cameron is elected, his government will face an unprecendented challenge to sort out the mess and the country simply cannot afford the distraction of a referendum on a Treaty which is already law or in fact an immediate referendum on anything else either
7) To achieve anything at all you first have to be in power which if people continue as they are doing will probably never happen. It appears that some have learnt nothing or forgotten nothing in the intervening 13 years in “the wilderness”
8) Finally – my advice to those that feel happier in UKIP would be better to just go and join them and stop harping on about it. Let the rest of us get on with trying to win an election and get the bigger threat to UK Sovereignty – Labour – out of office. When THAT is achieved THEN that is the time to turn our attention to resolving European issues. We have waited too long to allow anything to distract us from return to power- even Europe.
Precisely!
“Trust and judgement”. The eurosceptics had the power to pull down John Major’s government and I suspect if they drift off to UKIP will deny DC a working majority.
After listening to the cons view on Europe and immigration I can’t see any real difference between lib/lab/con..
Cameron won’t achieve anything in power. He has shown he is a liar, he has shown he knows he is a liar, he has shown he can’t even lie competently.
If you think this idiot and his bezzer mate from school can sort out the economy then you are a fool. He will make an even worse job of it than Brown – hardly surprising as he openly admits he believes the same Keynsian nonsense.
How many times are we going to keep on voting for these twats to screw us in the ass? It’s because they can rely on us to keep on voting for them no matter what that they stick two fingers up to all of us and do just as they please.
Fred is obviously a delusional, New Labour apologist blog troll.
The economy, immigration, crime, Afghanistan, and th EU constitutional crisis are all Brown’s doing.
…..and Fred thinks Brown will make a better job of sorting it out???
Government of all the talents – don’t make me laugh
hmmmm. you appear to be delusional and can see reds under the bed, even when the red in question appears to be wearing Tebbit’s leather jacket but not his “confused by too many years on earth” expression.
Get your reading glasses.
There are no Reds under the bed on this country. They’re all in Government at the moment. I love the way leftoids ’suggest’ that they are the party of youth, new ideas and dynamism: take a good hard look at Jack Straw, matey. What we are seeing is a paradigm shift away from the smelly ideas of the 1968 generation – we are the Thatcher kids, and we ain’t had our breakfast yet!
Well argued, Reality is etc. People seem to forget that politics is the art of the possible.
We’ve had 12 years of a government that promised Utopia, and spectacularly, if unsurprisingly, failed to deliver. Can we now have some hard-headed pragmatism?
Not from Cameron.
Tell me, is Tory plans for all black and all Women selection lists hard-headed pragmatism or dreamy Utopianism?
Absolutely SPOT ON – brilliant effort – many thanks
More “spots”.
We must pull out of Afghanistan, pull out of Iraq, and invade Europe to save ourselves before its too late.
Dave is as signed up to five more years of utter carnage in Afghanistan as he is to be the EU’s little bitch under Lisbon
If he thinks raising taxes will be his only problem he’s in for a shock
Immigration will be his biggest problem. What the electorate don’t understand is that immigration policy is set by the EU, so continued membership of the EU under the Lisbon Treaty will ensure that the French and the Spanish will continue to funnel their iunwanted immigrants in our direction to add to the flow of cheap labour from Eastern Europe and probably Turkey that will happily take our jobs from right under our noses.
By staying in the EU Dave has tied his hands on the most important matter he will need to deal with in the next 5 years. Perosnally I think he will get the knife after three.
totally misinformed – there is no EU immigration policy. and the status quo massively benefits the UK, as illegal immigrants who roll up in greece, italy, malta and are caught all have to claim asylum there. they have NO RIGHT to do so in the UK.
So those people in Sangatte, who’ve travelled across Europe to claim benefits in the UK don’t exist???
You’re delusional.
You are the one that is misinformed. That may be the agreed process, but the reality is that every EU country helps them on their way to their final destination which is Benefit Britain. How do you they they get here? Club Class on BA into Heathrow? Don’t see many boat people, no they come through most of the countries in Europe to get here.
As for the legal ones from Eastern Europe, they all head here as well, because there’s less of a language barrier and the UK doesn’t tend to have restrictive employment laws/practices to stop them working. It also didn’t help that when Poland was accepted in to the EU, Germany & France wouldn’t open their employment market up to them, so they all headed here. Of course if you believed Labour, only 12,000 would come in the first year.
But we realise that, that was an intentional lie because they wanted to flood the country with immigrants. Plus even if we wanted to stop them we couldn’t because our UKBA is a farce reminiscent of the Keystone Cops.
The only way to take control back is to exit the EU or take most of our powers back and Cameron doesn’t have the stomach for a fight.
So much for impartiality and not playing favourites
Looks like any pretence of this not being a Tory sponsored site has disappeared
this place has more Conservative naval gazing than Conservativefoam now
KEEP ON MESSAGE AT ALL TIMES
MAGINALISE THE EUROSCEPTICS LIKE ‘ECCENTRIC’ HANNAN AND ANYONE ELSE
Do you have reading difficulties?
None whatsoever thank you
The one thing that is constant is that conservatives believe in furthering the national interest.
Did you copy and paste that from a PPB or an election leaflet ?
What a twat you are mouthpiece.
what is it really that makes Euro-sceptics so rabid about the EU? I suspect none of them know anything about how it works beyond what they read in an equally rabid press.
The truth is that the EU has PRESERVED and ENHANCED the sovereignty and powers of a fading group of European nation-states over the last 50 years in facing global problems and economic competition.
Who are really the ‘traitors’ here? People who are prepared to seek pragmatic solutions to enhance Britain’s security and prosperity, or the legions of the mis-informed, hankering back to a ‘golden age’ they saw in black and white war movies…
Isn’t it obvious? The EU gets us closer to Johnny Foreigner, and we all know that he smells of garlic and is generally objectionable.
If there’s a more rational reason, I’m sure some of the rabid eurosceptics will enlighten us.
The Swiss and Norwegians must really, really, really hate ‘Johnny Foreigner’ then.
Another idiot I see who confuses the EU and Europe.
Was that supposed to be the “more rational reason”?
“The truth is that the EU has PRESERVED and ENHANCED the sovereignty and powers of a fading group of European nation-states over the last 50 years in facing global problems and economic competition.”
Maybe it did once, but that’s old news. The EU has been totally supplanted by the World Trade Talks that occur under the auspices of the WTO since the mid-90s. The EU has almost no power to introduce trade tarriffs except on food. That is why we now see so many imports “Made in China”. It can’t do anything about competition from low-wage countries anymore. The tarriffs on food don’t do any favours to the UK and the UK government has persistently attacked them because the UK imports 40% of its food and we would like to import these foodstuffs from cheaper non-EU countries without the tarriffs attached. This would not only make our food cheaper, it would help support poor farmers in commonwealth countries.
As for our security, this has been protected over the last 50 years by our nuclear deterrent, our armed forces and our membership of NATO. The EU has nothing to do with this, or didn’t until Lisbon came into force. Under Lisbon the British armed forces arenow part of a notional EU armed force with British foreign policy being subordinate to EU foreign policy under a new EU foreign minister. As far as I understand it there is no opt-out for Britains nuclear deterrent which means that in effect Germany has some control over our nuclear weapons which is interesting historically as Germany is banned from having nuclear weapons under its own constitution (which it was forced to create by the British and Americans after WWII). Ireland has an opt-out from the EU-army clause as it wishes to remain nuetral in time of war – so presimably those countries that did not request an opt-out have no intention of remaining neutral, intend to make full use of the EU-army and its nuclear capabilty as required. I’m not sure how exactly this enhances British security, but perhaps you can enlighten me.
if you really think that Lisbon subsumes the British army into some Euro-army you really are totally misinformed…
oh sorry I’m wrong Lisbon does in fact introduce euro-subscription where we are all forced to do two years hard labour in hungary and we are all forced to have abortions in ireland.
Yes, and don’t forget that the Lisbon Treaty also removes the power of the British Government to set taxes. From now on, we will all have 75% income tax which will go directly to Brussels.
And from next year, we’ll have to start driving on the right as well.
Yes, we should embrace the new post-democratic spirit of the age. We are in a new era now.
The world is simply too complex for us ordinary people. It’ll be so much better to have a political and bureaucratic class, freed from the mundane constraints of public accountability, making sure all those important decisions which we wouldn’t understand are made correctly for our own good.
Over my dead fucking body.
erm, where does anything you say in your euro-rant follow from what I said in comment 101?
It’s not what you said, but it’s what you meant.
Twat.
The problem is one of subsidiarity. In trade negotiations, the EU is a valuable instrument allowing equality of purpose with the likes of the USA, China, India and Brazil. However, when it comes to social policy, immigration and so called “human rights” – these are some of the issues which should remain entirely within the competencies of nation states.
As in all things in life, there are so many shades of grey in this debate, it is worth elucidating a few strands:
1. The rabid EUphile – these are the true federalists, those (like the LibDems) who dream of a United States of Europe. Unfortunately, much of the EU elite is of this persuasion, hence the continuous ratcheting of power to the centre.
2. The rabid EUsceptics – those who think the EU and all its works are an empire of evil and would wish to leave tomorrow – UKIP for instance.
3. Most of us in the UK – we want the good bits of the EU – free trade, a negotiating trading block, common standards in traded goods and ease of travel, without the bad bits – an interfering EUocracy telling us about ‘uman rights, immigration policy, asylum policy and that we cannot purchase vegetables in pounds and ounces.
Most people would settle for EU membership if we could repatriate powers we would rather our political elite had not surrendered.
In trade (or other) global negotiations we LOSE influence by being in the EU. Why? Because the UK view is frequently over-ruled within the EU itself, before the EU gets to the negotiating table. So our views don’t get heard at all.
All the supposed benefits of the EU that you list as being desired by the Brits are available via the WTO, ISO, GATT and bi- or multi-lateral specific agreements between sovereign states already. There is no reason to be in the EU. And we would save a whole lotta dosh too.
Until legitimate national sovereignty is restored to England, all state authority is null and void.
The conservative leadership have shown that they cannot be trusted to keep their word and they do not have the will to stand-up for our country. Treaties can be unratified. Cameron could hold a referendum on Lisbon (and also on all the other treaties) and if the country voted No, he could quite easily unliterally withdraw the UK from those treaties and tell Brussels its remit does not extend here and simply ignore any noises the EU makes. Offering to negotiate with the slippery EU, will lead no-where. Also we need to withdraw from a far wider range of EU laws, regulations, diktats and the EUs plans to snoop on us, control us, tax us, to restrict free speech, to remove habeus corpus, and to have their paramilitaries and unaccountable policeman (Europol) in our country. Cameron has destroyed his credibility and lost any claim to trust worthiness. Brown and his cabinet are of course traitors of the first rank and by rights they should be facing a long jail sentence. We can hope.
O/T, but it looks like the petition to get Gordon Brown to resign wasn’t successful.
http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page21213
The reason given was: “The Prime Minister is completely focussed on restoring the economy, getting people back to work and improving standards in public services. As the Prime Minister has consistently said, he is determined to build a stronger, fairer, better Britain for all.”
Who writes this stuff? It was a real effort of will to avoid barfing over my keyboard.
yup, spoilt my morning too. Next time we should put ‘pretty please’ , in the wording.
Perhaps offer a referendum in 5 years time? This one’s won
Guido,are you taking the piss?
“the one thing that is constant is that conservatives believe in furthering the national interest”
Utter bollocks,have you forgotten the cash for questions debacle the last time this shower were in government.
Get Real Guido, I wouldn’t buy a used car from David Cameron.
We won’t mention Cash for Peerages, then. Or Bernie Ecclestone. Or Lakshmi Mittal. Or Damian McBride. Or….
According to Peter Oborne, David Cameron & Tony Blair met in private to discuss the Yates investigation into Cash for Peerages, then the two main parties & their media mouthpieces systematically frustrated the investigation in the Commons & smeared Police Commissioner Yates. So while I acknowledge the endemic dishonesty and corruption in New Labour, the Conservatives have been compromised too – as have the Lib Dems, who apparently acquiesced in the interference & smearing.
So if I murder someone, I can just say “Hey, it’s alright, it’s nothing the Ripper didn’t do” and I’d be let off?
I don’t think so.
“the one thing that is constant is that conservatives believe in furthering the national interest”
Sure Guido.
The Tories, just like Labour believe in furthering their party’s interest and fuck the consequences for the country. But to be fair, the poor brain dead party faithfully probably believe their party IS the country.
Ah – a message from the most obnoxious,fraudulent, odious piece of evil that has ever entered Downing St – called Gordon Brown.
Brown – you are unelected,hated by millions and detested across the country.
Millions of us look forward to the time when you get totally beaten at the ballot box by we,the people – that time will come when you eventually are forced to call an election.
You have ruined this country and you will be remembered as the most revolting and disgusting Prime Minister to have ever sneaked into Downing St.
You are a disgrace and a stain on the history of the British Isles.
Might I formally invite you to celebrate a glorious by election victory next week at Glasgow North East.
The drinks are on me !
Could’nt agree more. Thank you for you reply
You can expect a visit from our Special Patrol Group boys within the hour – they haven’t topped anyone since April…..
We’re on the case, immediate sectioning, no doctors required. It’s less messy and doesn’t get any publicity.
Agreed
Are you running a ‘book’ on whether you get a reply from the unelected stain?
“We will have a generational challenge to get Britain to live within her means, to secure economic recovery and to deliver this country from the appalling mess left by this Labour Government. That has to come before anything else.”
OK up to a point, but when an incoming Tory government will need to slam the brakes on spending and ensure that it can enact (or preferably repeal) relevant legislation for the purpose of achieving those aims, how on earth does it reconcile this with subservience to the squandering, regulating machine in Brussels?
Roger Helmer likened the new policy to installing a burglar alarm after the family silver had been stolen. Very good. There are also similarities here with finding that the previous owner of your new house has left the bathwater running and flooded it from top to bottom – of course your first act will be to turn the taps off, but surely you’ll want to make it a priority to pump out all the water and dry out or scrap your ruined carpets before you start redecorating?
There would be no Lisbon Treaty without the duplicitous, treacherous Irish. Surely the lesson of Ireland’s referenda (plural) is that a British referendum would have no effect unless and until it delivered a result acceptable to the EU Commission.
Of course the laugh now throughout the Republic of Ireland is that the British might end up with an Irishman, John Bruton, lording it over us as an EU President.
It is quite amusing that having fought for years to drive the British out they have chosen of their own free will to enter into an agreement with the Europeans which leaves tham with exactly the same level of sovereignty. Thanks to Lisbon the 3million people of the Republic will end up with almost no influence over the direction of the entity that now governs them with power ceded to it by 300million.
Sinn Fein campaigned strongly against Lisbon. One can speculate where this now leaves the IRA.
Well lets hope it starts a wave of political assassinations.
But it would get britain get perks, opt-outs and bribes though.
did you go back to vote in the Irish referendum Guido?
The night that Edward met Yvie
A hair in his throat made him cough
She got spherical juice
All over her shoes
Little pigs – it was love at first trough.
Castrés.
Vous etes des castrés
Les toryboys sont des détraqués.
Quelle un load de merde.
They all do it: remember Blair and Clause 4; and what happened to all those long-haired liberal policies?
The French voted ‘non’, then the Irish voted ‘no’ and were given another chance until they got the right answer. Does the whole of the British electorate understand the issues of sovereignty that the Lisbon Treaty is all about? Is there any real point in a referendum for an electorate , the majority of which, probably don’t know the meaning of the word sovereignty thanks to Ed Balls. People understand that the country they live in is ‘broke’, that there are very few jobs for young people and older folk who have them hold onto them by a thread. They also understand that Cameron will robustly defend British interests in Europe not sign them away with a flourish of a pen like Brown.
I think they care about jobs, the economy and immigration. As the British government can now do nothing about any of these the anger of the public is likely to rise. God only knows were it will find an outlet.
Is there a cast iron guarantee that Cameron will defend British interests?
I have taken some time to dwell on this.
I have considered the issues.
I have considered my feelings.
I don’t see why we should have any MPs or Peers or Parliament anymore.
Our choices are not our own.
Our money is not our own.
Our wishes are not our own.
We are fucked.
If this is progress then I don’t want any of it.
Bliar and Brown and Cameron and Clegg should hang in hell for this.
MPs fucking expenses? – they’ve got away with MURDER!!!!!!
Copied from Iain Dale 8:44 AM
Today, I will give this cast-iron guarantee: if I become PM a Conservative government will hold a referendum on any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations. No treaty should be ratified without consulting the British people in a referendum.”
See that last bit? That’s the bit which people conveniently ignore – presumably deliberately, because it doesn’t fit their argument. Think about those words – “No treaty should be ratified”… let me spell it out for those who have their fingers in their ears and are shouting ‘la la la, can’t hear you’. No Treaty Should be Ratified means that a referendum should be held IN ADVANCE of a treaty being ratified.
Thanks for spelling it out. But the question remains: why didn’t Cameron spell it out when he made the promise? It would have been easy enough to add a further sentence: “If, of course, the treaty is ratified before we are in power, then we will not have a referendum”.
But he didn’t.
If i still lived in “enriched ” mitcham i would be disgusted too !!
There’s nothing enriched about Mitcham, trust me. It’s one of the poorest bits of southwest London.
because he wanted to create the impression that he was tough, without actually being so.
Thats smart arse politician bollocks.
Make a promise in sentence one. Make a clarification in sentence two.
Quote sentence one when trying to be elected, and sentence two when trying to worm out of it. Also helps if people are already clapping so you can mumble through sentence two and hope they don’t quite hear it or latch on to it.
It’s astonishing, isn’t it? They all do it. Do they really think the electorate are so thick that we don’t notice?
He made that promise in 2007 when the treaty was due to be ratified in 2008, long before he had a chance to implement any promised referendum. From this I conclude he must be one of three things:-
1] Really stupid and unlikely to be able to lead this country out of the mess it is in
2] A duplicitous lying scoundrel that knew full well he was spinning us another yarn and is merely emulating scumbag Tony Blair.
3] Both [1] & [2]
Whatever, he sure as hell isn’t getting my vote at the next election.
Cat cack.
The first sentence is an unbreakable pledge.
The second sentence is a separate opinion equally applicable before or after ratification.
If Cameron had meant “unless the treaty has already been ratified” he should have said so.
Catch-22 had some damning words about a prolix prat, as I recall.
The Nation sold down the River by another Spineless Limp Wristed Tory Toff who’s only Interest is getting his arse into 10 Downing Street. Vote UKIP.
Zzzz.
says it all, well done
Oh ffs he hasn’t signed anything ! grow up this is about survival of our country now UKIP won’t and never have amounted to s*** !so what are you going to do with Brown or his follower come election time ? will you will be out campaigning against the Torys or Labour ?
I’d like to know how UKIP are going to sort out the economy and pay off our huge national debt? Bet you’re faraging around for an answer to that one!
I bet you thought you were being really witty with that incredibly inept pun as you typed it.
NEXT!
I wish some people here could see how daft they look.
One minute they’re screeching that Lisbon can be repealed by our ’sovereign parliament’..the next they’re wingeing that Camerons’ ideas are against EU law and can never be enacted.
Can’t have it both ways,boys.
Well put !.
The Lisbon Treaty is a done deal, Britain is fucked whether inside or outside of Europe. Get over it!!!
You gotta laugh, eh?
Actually NO.
While we may not be able to have a Referendum on the Treaty that creates Eurasia, we can – and must – have a referendum on whether the people of Britain want to be part of a Federal Superstate.
And we don’t.
Referendum now, please. Followed by withdrawal and a negotiation of a TRADE agreement with Europe, rather than a legislative one.
D
Don’t need a trade agreement with Europe. The WTO now governs world trade. We can get our food and energy imports cheaper from outside the EU and the growth markets are all outside the EU anyway.
I’ve worked in international sales for years and take it from me- the EU is in terminal long-term decline and the Far-East is where the real money is. We need to hook up with China, India, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Australia. We’re backing the wrong horse. The EU knows it, which is why they have been so keen to tie us into a federal Europe ever since the Doha round started in 2001. They know the game is up and they want to stitch us up before we realise.
Er slight prob !we don’t own anything in this country it’s all owned by European based companies, so er how will you get them to go along with it?
renationalisation?
bit Communists ai it?
You’ll proably find their actually in favour. British independence would give them a nice little offshore base with which to do business away from the gaze of the eu commissars.
It’s convenient too, London’s just an hour or two from most European business hubs, which is better than having to go to the Bahamas every time you want to cash a cheque without the eu-taxman seeing it.
Sorry that should be “they’re”.
I shall report to Nurse immediately for a corrective spanking.
Happy 5th of November to all co-conspirators.
A curse on Cameron & Brown for their EU treachery.
Vote independent.
Happy anniversary, Guido. May your future be rather more comfortable than your namesake’s turned out to be.
P.S. Heard elsewhere.
A teacher reported that a seven-year-old pupil had told her, with the straight-faced sincerity that only children can command, that Guy Fawkes chose November 5th as the evening to blow up Parliament because the sound of the explosions would be hidden by the fireworks of bonfire night.
I used to think that…
That seems as logical as much of the bollox that comes out of Westminster – and at least the lad was honest!
That does sound like a joke or an urban myth.
No referendum = GM decide not to sell to the Germans. Coincidence?
There will come a time when the British will get their say on the federalist EU superstate
And I for one hope that our leaders have the good sense to allow us our say via the ballot box.
The alternative is too awful to contemplate – but when a people are denied the right to self determination we know the results.
Democracy is not an optional extra for our political elite, a mandate is essential for them – as the main three partys will discover on the morning after the next GE.
We will be heard. So what will it be – ballot box or bomb?
MY SENTIMENTS PRECISELY
They don’t listen to proles, so it’s not ballot box (where we just get another chance to get the “right” answer).
Alright,righty right wing (mrs)…
Are you going to be first in the queue to sign up to the Army, to fight the war your’re espousing?
Yeah..it’ll be 1939 all over again..us against not just Germany,but the whole of Europe.
Daft!
If there had been a referendum in the UK and the answer was “NO” they would keep having more until they got a YES as they did with the Irish. Or else they would have run rough shod over a no and signed anyway – they all have their own self interests at heart.
Bliar for Presidente has gone all quiet.
Bliar for Presidente = The Bliar Bitch Project
Surely that’s Cherie?
Mainstream parties are the Paul Masson California Carafe (or perhaps the Piat D’Or) of politics: manifestly they are not targeting their ersatz products at the self-determining quaffers of Grange, Cheval Blanc and Le Pin that grace these pages. So whilst its not surprising that Tory leaders visit Order-order to get a flavour of the rich and exciting goings on in the Premier Cru world of Guido they simply could not afford to recommend to their voters many of the tastings herein.
Happy birthday, by the way.
I think Cameron did the right thing yesterday – the fact that some lowly french minister has come out with comments in the guardian! says it all.
We are the second largest net contributer to the EU and get nothing back thanks to Liebour, that can quite easily change under Cameron.
He has been dammed because he didn’t and dammed because he did.
All this Ukip postering from Farage is laughable – does he really think he can make a difference. PB have said that he could win his first seat at Westminster -Wow! one whole seat
It won’t change under Cameron because he doesnt have the power to change it anymore whilst we stay in the EU. In any case our contributions are likely to rise as the Tories want Turkey to join and they would be the poorest and most populous nation to have ever joined the EU, requiring huge subsidies.
Let’s say you lot are right, and there is an in/out referendum.
If the good folk of this island vote ‘in’, are you all gonna shut TF up and accept it?
Nay that won’t stop this lot! .
Well that’s what I think, too.
It’s just that we had a referendum about getting in bed with our European cousins in, when was it, 1975? – and the result was an emphatic ‘YES’….
Then it was “Common Market” we were getting into, not a federal Europe under an EU oresident.
The idea of the EU “common market” is dead an buried since the world trade talks got rid of most trade barriers world-wide during the mid 90’s . This is what we know of as “globalisation”.
I agree with sentiments of many UKIPers but
problem is UKIP is a mess.
Nigel Farage is great. Most of the rest are
useless.
Cameron’s not a conviction politician but who cares.
He will go with the EU sceptic flow. That way
lies political capital and he’s a tart for all that.
Might not be useless for much longer if many Tories feel forced to jump ship.
Anyway, if we keep voting for tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee they will keep on treating us like mugs like they have been doing.
I don’t normally listen to Nick Robinson with a straight face, but I was interested to hear him talk about the short fuse to Europe in the conservative party. I wonder if it has exploded (in the country if not at westminister) and if so how many will defect to ukip?
WE MUST SETTLE DOWN NOW AND
FOCUS ON A TORY VICTORY
FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS
“”A VOTE FOR UKIP IS A VOTE FOR NULIBOR”"
Indeed it is.
And DC & his crew have only themselves to blame for their duplicity & lies & broken “cast irno guarantees”.
The very worst of all this is the fact that even the French are taking the piss out of the Tory position on this – that is how ridiculous the Consrevative position is on Lisbon & its aftermath come December 9th 2009.
The conclusion has to be that DC is “pro EU”
At least i found out before voting for him – so I will vote UKIP & hang the consequences for the Conservative party.
You did this to yourselves – & the rest of us probably.
Why do you insist on blaming the Tories for this mess?
DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND IT’S BLOODY LABOUR THAT SOLD US DOWN THE RIVER!!!!!!!!!
True, but Cameron won’t do anything to get us out.
WE MUST SETTLE DOWN NOW AND
FOCUS ON A TORY VICTORY
FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS
Yes, fuck the country; the really important thing is to get the Tories back into power again.
Because on mass immigration, the global warming scam, the EU, Political Correctness (Selection lists anyone?) and Islamification, the Tories would be so very very different from Labour!
I would personally like to see both parties smashed to pieces for what they have done to this country over 50 years. And I’m not the only one.
A Tory Victory under Cameron would simply be a continuation of New Labour.
So let’s vote for a bunch of social misfits like UKIP and have a few more years of Brown. Get a bloody grip!
Brown is finished anyway. And, after Lisbon,we are ruled from Brussels so it won’t matter – unless we get out of the EU. The 3 ‘main’ parties won’t take us out – so it must be one of the small parties or independents.
I think we all realize now that the Conservative Party is a left-wing party.
We should all vote UKIP at the next election. Or at least stay at home and don’t vote. What’s the point of replacing one bunch of lefties (Labour) with another?
Come off it Pete – do you understand how bad NuLibor is – how deep rooted its treachery is?
Yeah, Labour are absolute scum. Dave wants to go in the same direction.
Cameron has exposed himself as being exactly the same as Blair, just as he himself has claimed all along. Blair got us into this mess, how can someone that emulates Blair get us out of it?
A VOTE FOR CAMERON IS A VOTE FOR BLAIR.
Gordon Brown for PM! That’s now my wish but it’s what we’ll get if the myopic thick fools on here continue to bang on about this.
Don’t you mean:-
That’s NOT my wish
“A VOTE FOR UKIP IS A VOTE FOR NULIBOR”
And a vote for Cast Iron Dave is a vote for EU appeasement.
No thanks.
He did what is coming to himself.
If you don’t vote for Dave – you will get Brown – it’s simple
It can’t be done in one go! Certainly not at the upcoming GE
VOTE FOR DAVE
If you vote for Dave – you will get Brussels – it’s simple.
Very few folk are more right wing than I – and I too want out of the EU
Voting UKIP ain’t gonna help anyone but Labour
So be it !
You ain’t seen anything yet of the Cameron/Hague plans to destroy Britain.
Who watched Newsnight last night with Hague?
You didn’t ,well you missed something so key, so awful, the final death knell to our nation and people.
When challenged about giving referendums on further EU integration he was asked if we would get a vote on Turkey’s entry.
Ha Ha Ha not BL…y likely was the response.
The Tories want 80 million muslims in and no vote!!
If you are planning to vote for the lib/lab/con despite its treason – think about that one before you go in the booth.
That shows how utterly worthless any promise made by Dave was yesterday.
The Tories will not stop immigration and not even give us a vote before 80 million more muslims swamp us in the EU.
There goes any green belt. There goes our culture.
We must all vote for UKIP and the Unmentionables or we are even more finished than post nulabour.
Like a dog barking up the wrong tree !!
wotaloadabollox !!
So you watched it?
If you did you must have been deaf or blind or have an IQ of 20.
(No offence to those so afflicted but this poster is a nutcase)
UKIP is the only principled vote true Conservatives can take.
My understanding of Tory immigration policy is that they are concerned about the numbers we have admitted, and wish to decrease the inflow. Have I got that wrong?
According to Haggue we can have no vote against Turkey coming in – which they support.
Free movement of peoples!!.
80 million of them – nearly all muslim – many dirt poor and all after houses and benefits so UK here we come.
You cannot trust Cameron and Hague on immigration any more than the EU.
They are liars and traitors both.
Turkish accession to the EU doesn’t automatically mean that they’ll all up sticks and move to the UK. If our immigration policy is ammended to be more like (say) Germany’s, the problem might not exist, or at least, not to any significant degree.
So we will get 13,000 then!
Turkey is the 17th mostly densely populated nation in the world. It will also be the poorest nation in the EU. Where do you think they are going to go? Germany is also overrun with both Turks and Poles. Neither Germany nor Britain has any control over immigration policy.
but what evidence is there that that will happen? We were quite happy to let in the eastern europeans, why not the turks?
Labour immigration policy was to let in all and sundry. Conservative policy is unlikely to be quite so open-bordered.
You’re living in a dream world.
You assume Labour or Tory would actually want to amend immigration policy. From where I’m sitting, both parties have been supporters of mass immigration into this country, albeit for entirely different reasons.
I see no indication either party would change.
No. You can put money on it, whether Labour or Tory, hundreds of thousands of Turks (and Iraqis, Iranians Syrians, Lebanese…who the fuck is going to know or bother to check) will be heading this way if and when Turkey is accepted into the EU.
Yes, but this is just spin. The Tories couldn’t do anything about it under Maastricht, and they can do even less under Lisbon.
Once Turkey enters the EU then Turks will be able to live and work anywhere in the EU. The Tories will not be able to do a thing about it, just as Labour can’t do a thing about the Poles.
Don’t you get it? Its not the FACT of being part of the EU that is the problem. It is the NATURE of what the EU forces upon us that is the problem. People don’t undersand that many of the problems they are most concerned about are CAUSED by the EU or EXACERBATED by it.
And a Tory government would not be able to put in a ‘no’ vote to the Turkish entry? Don’t believe it.
They want Turkey in, with all that 80,000,000 muslims imply.
Thats not spin, its fact.
google for the article in the Independent where one of the supermarkets estimates the combined food market in the UK is 74 million.
Another article by a mobile phone company says it estimates 74 million mobiles being used.
Gov stats saying uk population is 60 million are as reliable as DCs cast iron guarentee
Yes, it’s funny how the UK’s population has officially been around 60 million for seemingly decades despite decades of net immigration and increasing birth rates (due entirely to that net immigration).
I, for one would be happy to see Turkey’s accession to the EU as this would sound the death knell for the whole European project. Both the Germans and the French know this and that is why they vehemently oppose it.
As both the Germans and the French have large Turkish communities they are also the countries most likely to fear the possibility of large scale immigration. Any restrictions countries place on the free movement of EU citizens can only be temporary for a specific phasing in period.
Let’s get the Turks in to f*ck the whole thing up, you know it makes sense.
Non.
FFS..are you so stupid that you can’t remember what the Tories said ONE month ago???
Immigration caps!!!!!
A week is surely a long time in politics for some of you lot!!!
‘Only Hannan and Roger Helmer are unwilling to condone the putting of power before principle.’
Something, oddly enough, that the left of the Labour party (when there was such a thing) were always accused if – putting principle before power.
I have to admit I always admired them – as I now admire Hannan and Helmer – for that position.
Admire them by all means
but don’t forget to
VOTE TORY
I don’t think that’s very likely, tbh
Vote Tory – Get Blair 2.0
No thanks.
Vote independent & stuff the party machines & their droidbots who troll here.
Am I the only one to notice how the trolls come out when the comment thread gets a bit close to some bone or another?
The last time was when Griffin’s upcoming humiliation was being discussed and suddenly the place was full of eager little Beans ‘n’ Peas. Now it’s the trolls from CCHQ.
And a fair smattering of Lab trolls, where is Baiter today? I imagine he’s posing as a disgruntled ‘ex’ Tory or bug eyed UKIP drone.
Putting the specifics of Lisbon aisde for a moment, it seems to me that Cameron has thoroughly exposed himself at last.
For some time there has been a question mark over Cameron – why was he not talking about policy? What were his real beliefs? Was he really that Eurosceptic? Why did he sound so much like Blair?
For a long time now we have been excusing this behaviour as being necessary for keeping at least part of the BBC News team on-side. But on this occassion Cameron had to make some sort of decision, and the nature of that decision was bound to reveal the kind of man behind the Blairite mask.
Firstly when he made that “cast-iron promise” it was in 2007. The Lisbon Treaty was due to be ratified in 2008. There was unlikely to be an election until 2009 at the earliest. So when he made that “promise” it was under the understanding that the treaty would already have been ratified before he could ever have a chance to do anything about it. We now know that he didn’t have any intention of doing anything about it if the treaty had already been ratified, from which we can conclude he is either mind-bogglingly stupid or was lying about his cast-iron promise right from the start.
But now look at the new “promise” he has made. He tells us that he “promises” to offer us a new referendum on any new powers that the EU might take. But he knows that Lisbon does away with the need for any new powers. Lisbon leaves the UK only with the powers that would be normal for a town council – the powers associated with the day-to-day running of local services. Economy, defence, industry, healthcare, immigration are now under as much control of the EU as the EU itself choses to apply. Cameron must know this. Therefore we can conclude that he is not mind-bogglingly stupid – he is the same kind of liar that Tony Blair was. Exactly the same. All he is interested in is getting his hands on the big prize – a prize now rendered as having as much value as being declared Mayor of Hartlepool thanks to the Lisbon Treaty.
Sadly, we must also conclude that even if he is not mind-bogglingly stupid, he certainly isn’t very bright. Offering a referendum on continued EU membership would have done his electoral chances no harm at all – the public like to be given choice and power. He would have kept some credibility on his pledge and the name “Cast Iron Cameron” would not stick so readily. He would probably have taken votes from UKIP rather than handing them over to them. Nothing would have stoped him from campaigning like hell for continued membershp of a federal EU if that is where his loyalties lie – the experience with Ireland shows that such a referencum might well turn out to be winnable. So clearly he is not as capable as some have claimed – he is an empty vessel propped up by lies.
Cameron doesn’t deserve anybody’s vote. “Heir to Blair”, BluLabour – these terms are a true description of “Cast Iron Cameron”. Voting for such a man got us into this dreadful mess – how can making the same mistake again get us out of it?
He is as bad as Blair as a liar and proably worse than Blair in ability (Blair would certaily not have made the mistkae he has done over his “Cast Iron” promise), and the electorate are going to be made very much aware of this by Labour in the run-up to the next election. I am not at all sure that the electorate can be convinced to make the same mistake again. Just before election day enough voters might get cold feet to keep Labour in power. Cameron is now “damaged goods”. He has split the Tory vote and caused sufficient doubt about his own character to lose support back to Labour and the LibDems.
I think the Tories may find they need to ditch Cameron soon if they want to win that election once Labour mercilessly attack him over his “cast-iron” pledge. He’s blown it just like Kinnock did. Mayeb Cameron doesn’t want to be PM anymore anyway – a screwed up economy, screwed up immigration system, a war we didn’t want and all the powers to do anything about these things already signed over to Brussels. Why would he? Looks like game-over for the UK unless we get off our knees and fight for our nation again.
Woteva
“Woteva”
Education, education, education – lovely to see how effective that was.
He sounds like Blair because that’s exactly what he is.
For some reason the Tories think that the way to beat Labour is to have a fake, insincere, bulshitting smooth talker. After all, it worked for 3 elections for them didn’t it?
What they fail to appreciate is that they’re going to win *despite* Cameron, not because of him.
The Tories were so hated in ‘97 that I reckon even Brown would have beaten Major then. Same thing now.
The only saving grace is that Cameron’s been exposed already, so his chances of a huge majority are pretty slim.
Spot on Fred. Conservatives MPs need to look beyond Cast Iron Dave and consider a future leader. They have lost touch with their party, Dave has lost his credibility and they just might lose the next election.
A friend who is a constitutonal law professor has just informed me that a national referendum of any kind will be illegal under EU law unless specifically authorized by them.
I cannot see the EU allowing a UK referendum on an in/out question.
Can you?
TREASON writ large.
Rebellion then.
Oliver come back all is forgiven. They should never have hung you in chains in Tyburn – as I think they did?
Wheres our monarch bye the bye!
It does sound like a High Velocity Lead based “referendum” is needed.
Even more scary is the fact that EU Troops can be given bases here now.
All European tyrannys send their armies to qwell insurgency in their outer regions.
Thankfully these European tyrannys always implode – with a little resistance.
How long do you think they will wait to send EU Troops here?
Hopefully we will have the same IED tech from Afghanistan & Iraq by then, but back by our boys.
Then after we have driven them out we can treat our elite to same treatment that Saddam got – live on the internet.
Who cares if you need EU permission for a referendum on leaving the EU, we should just have one then wave goodbye when the yes vote wins.
What they going to do come over and give us a good kicking.
We will not get a vote though for the same reason we will never get a vote on hanging the scum in our prisons beacuse the clowns in power know what the answer will be.
Then again who am i kidding this country is finished most of the clowns around these parts would only get upset if x factor was cancelled.
A thought.
We had the Neathergate story a few days ago, which is rather thin, but may be a slight chink of a view of inner-circles Nulab thinking. It suggests that they put cocking a snook at the Right ahead of national interest.
I seem to recall some time ago that Caroline Flint, when Europe Minister, admitted that she hadn’t read the Lisbon Constit….oops, sorry, Treaty. Perhaps, for Labour policy purposes, she didn’t need to.
Have Labour persued European integration for the same alledged reasons that they persued immigration policy, that is, because they know it would infuriate the Right? And bugger the national interest?
“It still rests on his desk.”
If true, what a shitty move on Hague’s part.
Hague and Thatcher refuse to be in the same room together, so it’s hardly surprising if true.
The cut of Cameron’s jib will
now always be that of a liar.
Whenever you see him in the Commons or
on the box, there will always be that slight
facial expression, tick, ever so slight reddening
of the complete and fucking absolute liar.
He’s single-handedly turned the phrase “cast iron guarantee” into a synonym for lying.
His credibility is shot.
Well Master Baiter has done his job. 12 years of the most deceitful lies from Brown which has brought this country to its knees, and everyone is wound up about CMD’s bloomer. They are all the *loody same. Difference is Brown must be stopped and
today only Blue Labour has a sniff. Not great, but a *uckin start when a *uckin start is needed. Get going, refine on the way. Anything else is damaging procrastination.
As I understand it, treaties are signed under Royal Prerogative.
Treaties are thus actually between The Queen and a foreign power, not between the Government or Parliament and a foreign power. Therefore Parliament, or the Government, does not have the authority to overturn a treaty.
Consider yourself corrected, Guido. :)
naive fool
The monarch is merely the representative of the people and only rules with their permission. Nothing more, nothing less.
United Nations Convention on the Law of Treaties
Article 27 – Internal law and observance of treaties
A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty
We have started to reclaim our Parliament from the ‘honourable’ Members and must continue the struggle which the Telegraph so admirably started to scrutinise everything our porcine parliamentarians do with our money.
We must also let Cameron know that as far as Europe and the Lisbon Treaty is concerned we, the electorate, will not let matters rest there (to coin a phrase).
He has to raise his game significantly and do much better than he has, otherwise I for one will abandon the habit of a lifetime and vote UKIP at the next election along with hundreds of thousands of other Tory and even Labour voters.
We must reclaim our Country as well as our Parliament from the political elites at home and abroad.
It’s alright for Guido to prattle on a about high minded principle, he lives
in Ireland and wouldn’t have to endure another 5 years of New Labour!
Sometimes I despair.
It is in the overwhelming national interest that labour are removed from
office in 2010 and the stark political reality is that Only the Tories and Cameron have any realistic chance of delivering a labour defeat.
Labour will try and pump up a Euro split on the centre right of British Politics
in the hope of peeling votes from Tories and slipping in by the back door.
Brown likes to create dividing lines – it’s the ONLY thing he is any good at.
Don’t get me wrong I like Farage and have friends in UKIP but alas Labour
see UKIP as ‘usefull Idiots” .
The plan is obvious and I for one will not fall for it.
By the way Guido I seem to re-call Maggie, Tebbit & co pushing the Single
European Act through the commons on a Guillotine.
What total farcical rubbish.
Vote Tory get heir to blair and BluLabour.
What planet are you on?
When will people like you ever learn.
The Tories have systematically sold us out since Heath.
And you still vote for them?
Speechless.
Which Tory MP are you?
Never said the Tories were perfect (see last sentence)
So who do you suggest we vote for?
UKIP,BNP, LPUK
Under “first past the post” you might as well vote for Noddy and Big Ears mate.
If Brown gets back in can I hold you responsible then?
Keep voting for tweedle-dum and that’s what you wil get.
Lets face it that Tories sold us out over:
The Common Market
Maastricht
Schengen
Now Lisbon
and in future the joining of Turkey to the EU.
See a pattern here? They are taking us as mugs and will continue to do so as long as we say “We’ve got to vote Tory or Labour will get in”. That’s the same moronic thinking that ensure Labour gets 20% of the vote from people too dense to think for themselves.
Quite right. The Tory die hards on here think we have the memory of a gold fish and that 1997 was some sort of year Zero.
The Tory party are just as big a sell out to this country as the Labour party. If you support, or even worse, are a member of the Tories, Labour or Liberal Democrats, then you are part of the problem.
Too late, CAMERON HAS FALLEN FOR IT! He could have offered a referendum on EU membership now and spiked UKIPs guns entirely. Nothing to stop him joining with Labour the LimpDems and the EU itself to campaign for full membership of the whole bloody thing if that is what suited him at a later date.
The fact that he hasn’t done that but prefers to give us a load of old bollocks about meaningless referenda that will never happen shows what a complete tit he really is. He’s a waste of space. Labour will take him apart mercilessly over this one. They will take the piss out of his inability to make decisions, his meaningless promises, spin, Tory splits with Redwood, Hannan and Davis putting the boot in, the whole kit and caboodle. If he hadn’t made the stupid unnecessary promise in the first place he wouldn’t have looked so retarded now. He’s a busted flush. The one real decision he has ever had to make in front of the public and he’s blown it entirely. What are the chances of him ever getting anything right? He has fucked himself right in his own arse and he didn’t need any help from UKIP or me to do it. He’s only got himself to blame. He was well on the way to an easy run up to becoming PM and then he skewered himself on a broken promise limply covered over with a bit of Blair style bullshit.
Hague and Howard have now played themselves out of court leaving only Davis and Redwood from the ConHome survey with clean hands. We need a meaningful referendum not a set of fruitless negotiations which need the approval of the 26 others.Enough is enough.
The Vulcan has some strong words on the subject of Lisbon on his blog I notice.
Cameron is deluding himself if he thinks this issue is done and dusted.
Next up on the list… the Euro. How long before the Pound goes south and we have to adopt the Euro? Two years I guess. It’s a bit like the Borg in Star Trek. Must assimilate…
but think of the money we’ll save not changing cash when on holiday
How small minded can you get?
whisper I-R-O-N-Y
Unfortunately some are not sarcastic when making that comment.
If we join the Euro, then the UK economy will be so fucked there won’t BE any foreign holidays anymore.
Think of the extra money you will spend because the EU aren’t too happy about Ryanair and Easyjet spewing out all that burnt kerosine on the stratosphere. They want to tax then into non existinence to save the planet, and since one is based in the UK and the other in Eire they really don’t give a fuck what we think about it.
Since Lisbon supercedes Maastricht, and since Lisbon also states that the EU will have full power over “economic cohesion” whenever it chooses to exercise such power, that decision will now be determined by the EU. We will get the Euro when they see fit.
and if you argue you’ll get your head lopped off as lisbon has brought back the death penalty for pretty much anything it fancies.
Hitler, Mussolini Petain, and all their sidekicks are laughing in the grave.
Cometh the hour, cometh the man. Where the hell is he?
See Dale is still hiding behind his defence screen.Is he still looking for a seat???
starting to threaten his readers now, must be desperate
a hairy one
Vote for UKIP then.
Vote for UKIP = 4th Labour Term.
You muppets.
One has to vote for Cameron then whatever he does or says. That’s a fine pickle to be in is it not?
It’s called politics, dimwit.
Let freedom reign
suckers
Master Baiter is very quiet this morning.
Are the Bunker minions scratching their heads over the spin response to Cameron’s announcement? Thus, are they unable to issue the Trolls with their orders?
he said today was when the cock was coming off
Even he has probably realised that all the main parties are the same internationalist traitors whose only principle is the acquisition of power – at any cost.
Goodbye England, hello economic region 7.
No more rule for Britannia, Britons ever ever ever to be slaves.
Oh give it a rest you tedious halfwit.
fuck off yourself you turd licking no wit
Anonymong
You can’t even be bothered to give yourself a moniker.
So why not just fuck off??
Hit the nail on the head – Engineer. That’s the cleverness of Cameron’s strategy which Brown and Labour will have difficulty in an election campaign combatting.They are totally wrong-footed whichever way they go on the matter.
Imagine the numerous interviews etc. A Labour politician is asked “Do you agree that UK Sovereignty is important and must be paramount ?” If they answer – Yes – then they’ve endorsed Cameron’s strategy.If they say no then they are portrayed as not prepared to support UK Sovereignty over the EU’s.and so on.
UKIP will also be shown to be totally ineffective – Exactly what Mr Farge are you suggesting ? A referendum on Lisbon ? Pretty pointless isn’t it ? It’s already law Withdrawal from the EU ? If you were in government are you saying that you would distract a UK government from sorting out the economy ? Re-negotiate the terms ?Isn’t that what Cameron and the Conservatives are proposing ? So you are actually supporting the Conservative position then Mr Farage ?
The policy also sounds reasonable and not extreme and you’ll find(much to the eurosceptics annoyance) that it’s one the British electorate will understand and support
Cameron has always been very good at out-maneuvering his opponents. Apart from the few drama queens saying they’ll vote UKIP now (I’m pretty sure they would have in any situation other than Dave proposing an in/out referendum) he’s closed down the Europe row till at least after the election.
If Lisbon is the Law, then the Law can be changed. There’s something called Parliament, you may have heard of it, that changes The Law in the U.K.
I don’t think Cameron’s nearly as clever as you make out…
You twat, they know full well that nobody cares about those detailed questions. They will just ask what he means by “cast iron promises”. He’s toast. That’s all any of us will here from now till election day “Cameron and his cast iron promises”.
Please don’t encourage the creature out of his lair.
I’m covering Baiter’s shift today!
Ex-MEP admits to expenses racket
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8344176.stm
Trying to get some of the budget back
Does anyone have a cast iron figure on how many millions Euroland is costing per day. Please ignore any costs we incur begging for a slice of our own money.
£7.8bn a year. You do the math
Costs us more than that, because trade tarriffs on food we import from commonwealth countries pushes the cost up vastly.
Peanuts. Labour’s reckless squandering is costing 500,000,000 quid a day. Witholding our ‘membership fee’ for an entire year is equivilent to firing Brown and his imbecile government a fortnight ago.
Half a billion quid a day. The price of Labour idiocy. Six more months. 180 Days. 90bn quid more in debt. 1500 quid extra in debt for every man, woman and child before we get a sniff at firiung the worthless fuckers.
That’s 2500 quid before tax. 10,000 quid before tax for an extra family. And that’s just six months.
That’s why they’re printing money. Inflating away all this debt is the mechanism of choice. That’s why Gold, the stockmarket and even house prices are recovering. Because anybody with the sense to not piss away all their cash prior to 2007 has realised that this fuckwitted government has decided to inflate away all the debt and that their cash is becoming worthless. So they’re buying stuff. the problem is that folk who are sensible enough not to piss away all their cash already have all the cars, TVs, fridges and sofas that they need so they’re not pissing this cash away on consumption (thus flattering GDP) they’re spending it on assets.
This is going to get a fuck of a lot worse before it turns around folks and only jackass Labour imbeciles and their apologists are too stupid or disingenuous or both to see it.
€300m per year.
We are the eleventh largest net contributor.
We contribute less per capita and total than Netherlands, France, Germany and Italy.
The biggest net beneficiary is Greece by a long shot
money-go-round.eu
But of course why let facts get in the way of a good xenophobic, bigoted rant
Oh fuck off with your per capita bullshit – let’s talk about the total amounts rather than trying to spin.
You lying, cheating moron.
Those figures are utter bullshit. We contribute more per capita than either Germany or France despite having a lower standard of living than either – I can’t even be bothered to check the rest of your figures.
If you can onyl back up your position by telling outright lies, why bother having a position at all???? Wierd.
That’s peanuts. We are just about to print another £25bn to help the banks make more profits and bonuses.
We will offer you an I Ron cast guarantee that we will not offer you a referendum suckers!
OT
Brown and his cabal of incompetence must be soiling their trousers laughing at the distraction caused by their treachery. It’s distracting folk from the ungoing clusterfuck of his imbecile policies.
Funnily enough printing money isn’t working….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8343757.stm
DeAnne Julius, a former member of the Bank of England’s rate-setting Monetary Policy Committee, said it was time to start phasing out QE.
“It’s important to come out of this period of quantitative easing, but to do it gradually,” she told the BBC.
She added that so far the programme only appeared to be helping the financial sector.
“The proper test is whether QE is working in supporting the real economy, the non-financial sectors of the economy, and personally I don’t see much evidence that it is working.”
DeAnne Julius? Isn’t that something they have on RTE 1 at 6 o’clock?
it is working – for the central bankers, each pound printed has debt attached to it that has to be paid by borrowing more money from the central bank (boe) that has to be paid back by the taxpayer with a nice heathy war to force the government to borrow from the bank etc etc, etc.
On 5 live this morning Mickey Clark said the same – the only winners are the Banks who are making a nice turn on the gilts rather than lending the money to businesses that need it
Many banks are bust and have been since the summer of 2008. We’re not allowed to say that they are bust, for obvious reasons, so we have to find a way to give them more and more cash so that they can plausibly claim not to be bust. This subsidy is called ‘quantitative easing’ but it might as well be called ‘give us a few hundred billion and I’ll pay you back when I win the Lotto’. The money isn’t really meant to be passed on, hence it isn’t causing inflation, nor is it doing businesses or consumers any good. It’s just subsidising banks’ past losses.
This money isn’t, strictly, taxpayers’ money because it does not really exist. It has never been earned. It WILL be taxpayers’ money, someday, when our children and grandchildren have to toil to repay the Brownian Debt Mountain. Until then it is quite literally fiat money.
It isn’t causing inflation because the inflation was caused by the debt mountain as it wascreated – asset inflation in the form of a house price boom. Swapping the debt for cash makes no difference to inflation, as long as not too much money is printed.
However, it is a bit of a red herring since it really only props up the banks, It does nothing to solve the problems of the economy, which for the last 10 years has relied on overspending in all sectors of the economy of 20% per annum. Once the added debt of Gordon’s stimulus package has run out, the economy will dissappear down a black hole in the famous “double-dip” recession. The next dip will be far worse than the one we have just had because it willbe the real one.
To solve the problems with the economy we would have to resolve the structural problems caused by stuffing too many people into the public sector and letting the exporting private sector go to hell. Labour won’t do that and I’m less than convinced that wavy Davy and his bezza mate lined up for the treasury will either after this latest fiasco.
How to manipulate public opinion
1. Wait for a big Tory announcement
2. Put up lots of comments claiming to be from Tories disgusted with it.
3. Perhaps fool some proper Tories into agreeing and adding negative comment.
4. Wait for the MSM to pick up and widely spread the “fact” that Tory grassroots HATE the Tory announcement AND D Cameron.
5. Repair the the Spinner’s Arms for a well-earned drink or two.
Alan Douglas
Spot on, amazing how many swivel eyed loons fail to grasp this. ‘Drama Queens’. Yup thats them all right.
Just to clarify, these are the powers left to the UK after Lisbon. Everything else is either fully the jurisdiction of the EU, or can be made the jurisdiction of the EU if the EU chooses it to be so:-
Healthcare promotion (e.g. stop smoking campaigns)
Promotion of local industry campaigns
Culture
Tourism
Education and Training (but this can be overruled in the interest of pan -EU “cohesion”, i.e. if the EU wanted to introduce a pan-EU exam system).
Disaster prevention
Administration
Healthcare itself, the army, immigration, the economy, farming, natural resources of all kinds (e.g. oil and gas, fisheries) , transport, security, trade policy, the free market and foreign policy are now under the jurisdiction of the EU and EU decisions will take precendence. Some of these matters the EU can choose to stay out of if it wishes (but consider that if a new Tory government does something Labour doesn’t like, they can actually request the EU to intervene and the EU will take precedence, which might make life interesting).
Brown’s legacy to the British people.
but consider that if a new Tory government does something Labour doesn’t like, they can actually request the EU to intervene and the EU will take precedence,
Aha!!!
Right, that’s the first thing Dave should do on December 1st. Ask the EU to intervene on the reckless finanacial mismanagement of the UK.
Brown cannot object since a) it is being recklessly mismanaged and b) he signed over the powers personally.
In principle, he can actually do that. He could actually go to the EU, produce evidence that the UK economy is being mismanaged and ask the EU to step in and take over.
He’d actually have a strong case since even according to the book figures we are now way outside the EU rules for public debt, and according to Maastricht we were already supposed to keep within those rules (but never have since Brown has been PM).
The EU might even go for it, as Brown is a busted flush. They’d probably stuff us with the Euro though.
What are we going to use Parliament for, then? Redevelop it as a theme park? Pull it down and build riverside flats?
So its no longer Scotlands oil anymore.
Northern Ireland is Brussels problem.
Always look on the bright side
Excellent, so we can cut both of them loose.
Actually, on that point, if Scotland does vote for independence does that mean we would have to re-apply for EU membership separately?
I guess so althougth Scotland once independent could have a get out and leave us in.
Anyone able to advise where is best for Brits to get work abroad?
‘Cos if Guido and his band of UKIP enthusiasts are representative we will either have another 5 years of McDoom or a Clegg/McDoom stitch up.
I can’t afford to, nor do I want to, live in a bankrupt, overgoverned communist outpost.
I too believe that Cameron is a wet fish and a pillock – but he leads the party with the only realistic chance to get rid of McDoom and his bunch of lying, smearing thugs.
How about actually sticking around and fighting for this country instead of doing a runner?
You’re going to get that anyway. The whole point of Labour signing up to Lisbon is to take the ball away from us and make sure we are saddled with socialism forever. Mind you, the crazy nationalists gradually taking over in Europe will probably lumber us with an entirely different form of EU “politics” in 20 years time. They’ll be firing up the gas chambers again.
I just got excited for nothing, Sky News announced “Brown is committed” but then went on to say to the Afghan campaign, I was very disappointed, I thought that finally the “Men in White coats” were going to take him away, and save the nation.
Another 25 bn queasing announced
do you really want 5 more years of labour ? becausse the way your going on your going to get it then who will you have to blame ? YOURSELVES you wont be able to blame the torys, ukip or the bnp. the only ones to blame will be those who dont know getting rid of labour is the most important thing for the next election.
The only bill we are going to get is the one to pay back all the money Gorgon McSnot has borrowed and wasted!
can’t see that Cameron’s letter to the Sun has been linked yet
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2715055/David-Cameron-vows-to-keep-Britain-out-of-an-EU-state.html
Czech Official Warns of EU-Quitting Plans over Lisbon Treaty
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=109646
“A high-ranking official from the Czech presidency has said the country will leave the European Union after the Lisbon Treaty comes into force, reports say.
“After the Lisbon Treaty comes into force, the Czech Republic will lose its state independence. President Vaclav Klaus is fully aware of this. One of the options for the country to bring its sovereignty back is to leave the European Union,” Peter Gayek, deputy head of the cabinet of the president said, as cited by ITAR-TASS.
He stressed, however, that this is a scenario of last resort in the country’s efforts to restore its state independence”……………
Sounds like Santa Klaus still has more prezzies left in his sack. I expect him and Dave to be best buddies after the election.
Why would he associate with the leader of the Tories after they monumentally fail to get elected ?
At this rate, I predict a Labour fourth term.
Mandelson planned this all along, and you’re falling apart again just like in the 1990s because you cannot get rid of the rabid xenophobe shits in the right wing.
Utter fools.
Keep dreaming the dream.
Xenophobic? I think xenophobic is the kind of word I would reserve for the extreme nationalist parties on the rise all over Europe and slowly taking over the European Parliament.
Typically, you socialist tossers have gone and hitched yourself up to a political entity that will soon turn out to be the BNP, M. LePenn, Jorge Haider and Geert Wilders all rolled into one. Then you’ll really know what xenophobia means.
The problem with trying to take away the ball from nationalists is that they quickly become supra-nationalists and start ranting on about the “racial superiority of Europeans”. It is a dangerous game you have played with them, as you will discovoer over the course of the next 20 years.
Given the EU is a state, the bile spewing europhiles are actually a form of extremist nationalist themselves, ironically. Pan Europa Uber Alles.
Pravda have summed it up nicely – ‘Twenty Years after the Fall of the Berlin Wall, the EU is a Reincarnation of the Former Soviet Union’
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/04-11-2009/110289-berlin_wall-0
And Cameron supports this?
FX: Disgusted look.
Over 350 comments and much of it seems to be aimed in the wrong direction and seemingly based upon the headlines rather than the underlying complexities. Cast iron guarantee or not, the treaty *has* been signed and ratified and Cameron and co have not yet been in a position to prevent that – the people who were in a position to prevent this and *have* betrayed the interests of the country are those currently in power. Labour seem to be getting a very easy ride for their hypocrisy on this matter. When it comes to u-turns and broken promises, they haven’t exactly got the best track record. Anyone remember their election pledge card promises?
1. Your family better off
2. Your family treated better and faster
3. Your child achieving more
4. Your country’s borders protected
5. Your community safer
6. Your children with the best start
The track record isn’t looking too good is it? ..and as we know, things got very worse from then on..
While I’m sure UKIP’s intentions are good, they are a single issue party that’s more or less become redundant by the Irish and Czech’s signing. For all the criticism that Cameron is getting here, you need to be realistic and recognise that by the time he does get an opportunity to make these decisions, the world will have moved on and to have a referendum on the treaty then would be like trying to rewrite history and having another vote of the 1997 election rather than focussing on the 2010 vote.
Far better to put Labour under the microscope, because they are the one’s who have signed without consultation. Still, all these political games make a convenient distraction from the country falling apart at the seams and being crippled by debt for generations to come. I wonder how long it’ll be before the next public health scare to keep the focus away from Brown’s catastrophic legacy?
Yep. This euro-spat is a welcome distraction for Brown. Anything to keepthe true magnitude of his incompetent financial mismanagement off the BBC. Even the expenses debacle is preferable. At least there’s plenty of shit to go around in that one.
As long as the papers and news media ain’t filled 24/7 with the fact that Gpordon Brown, by virtue of his utter financial incompetence, has completely fucked the UK then he’ll be content.
Best comment on the site.
Because it’s not fuelled by a rabid xenophobia.
Oh fuck off – it’s non xenophobic to want to retain our sovreignty. I love much of Europe and enjoy visiting friends in half a dozen different countries on the continent, but I don’t want us to be one big nation any more than they do.
It’s scum like you accusing everyone who disagrees with them of being prejudiced in some way or another than have led us to the mess we’re in now.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
It will not matter if Labour are in power or not. Whoever wins the next election will toe the EU line. The UK’s farmers, fishermen, shepherds and postmen have discovered that already.
France wants a bigger CAP payment? Watch UK food prices rise.
Shortage of gas in Europe? With North Sea gas running out and not under UK control any more better start knitting.
The EU defenders, including those who say Cameron’s latest cast iron guarantee on “no more power transfers” are under the delusion that the EU has any interest in the UK other than as a resource (EU payments) to be used then discarded.
Given the current fiscal crisis, another Labour win might pave the way for a competent authority to run the UK, the IMF.
Yep, the Germans are shit scared of not being able to get gas from the Russians, so in the interests of “energy security” they have pushed for British oil and gas reserves to become “European” oil and gas reserves, which is exactly what they are under the Lisbon Treaty. Just like what was once UK fish stocks are now European fish stocks. So now the tax levied by UK government on UK oil and gas as it is extracted before it is sold world-wide is no longer legitimate, since the UK is taxing a EU resource, not a British resource. Hmmm, wonder how that will help the UK economy.
A grand coalition of little EU shits.
Well if they have signed away all our sovereignty and we will never get it back – it matters not whether we vote Cameron or Brown. If we haven’t then voting Cameon or Brown won’t get those powers back.
You still haven’t given the slightest coherent reason why I shouldn’t go right ahead and vote UKIP. But then you are a Camron supporter, so coherence isn’t your strong point.
Fred, your reply attempts to lead the subject away from the core of my post towards your own agenda of promoting UKIP. If you recall, my post was that Labour are the ones who signed and are responsible for the UK’s acceptance of the Lisbon treaty, making the noise about impossible what-if scenarios with the Conservatives or anyone else in the future when it is too late, largely redundant.
However, I will reply this time. It is of course, your choice to vote for whoever you feel most comfortable with – and for you, that’s obviously UKIP but I see nothing on their website that inspires me with any confidence that they’re a credible option for tackling issues beyond the subject of trying to pull the UK out of Europe. The absence of any meaningful economic policy on their website leads me to the conclusion that they’re a single issue protest party and at the current time, unfit to govern – especially in these precarious times.
Unfortunately the state of the UK’s politics is poor across the board, full of self-interest and personal gain. Sadly, that’s left us all with the prospect of voting for the party who we think will do the least harm and at best, give us a little hope that things will improve so we can get out of the current mess we’re in.
You should cut out the unwarranted abuse too – just because you have an opinion, it doesn’t automatically equate that it’s the right one. Respect the views of others, even if you don’t agree and you’ll find others will take you far more seriously.
This is true but it won’t make me consider ever again voting for Cameron.
Once you start voting for those who will do the least damage, democracy is lost.
If UKIP are truly a one trick pony, I just won’t vote.
I would rather see Brown and the Soshalists face up to the chaos they have wrought than vote for a compromising wet like Cameron.
Why should we always have to chose between these Public School twerps and Trades Union Bullies.
Time to say a pox on both your houses,and watch Brown face the Chaos.
I agree – we shouldn’t have to put up with the options we have and admire the schadenfreude approach of watching Labour reap what they sow. Wouldn’t it be great to finally see politicians have to face up to the consequences of their actions? Sadly, whatever powers remain in their hands, if it’s likely to cause them political damage, they’ll be offloaded to some independent body so if any contentious decisions backfire, they’ll cry ‘Not me, guv…’. The problem is there are no real consequences for the MPs to face when they cock up. Whether it’s Major, Lamont, Blair, Brown or whoever, even when voted out or banished to the backbenches, they all end up very comfortable and distanced from any hardship. Pity their pay isn’t performance related – then they might end up “living on rations”.
I don’t think it’s realistic to expect radical change overnight, but hopefully with more people online and having access to a broader selection of news sources, more will become aware and say enough’s enough and there’ll be a groundswell of change that grows until these public servants are forced to change and do what they should be doing – serving the people rather than their own interests.
Guido, you’re wrong. The difference is that the Treaty has now come into force under its own terms.
How dare you accuse Labour M.P.’s of “troughing”???
BBc Website
A former British MEP has admitted fiddling £36,000 worth of expenses after switching his plea at his trial.
Tom Wise, 61, from Leighton Buzzard in Bedfordshire, had previously denied charges of false accounting and money laundering.
But during the case at Southwark Crown Court the former UKIP MEP confessed to fiddling expenses from the taxpayer.
Wise took the money between 14 December 2004 and 24 December 2005, and spent it on cars and wine, the court heard.
Only £36,000.
Seen Bernard Jenkin’s bill.
And Cameron hasn’t even sacked him.
It’s OK when UKIP cheat and break the rules, cause they hate johnny foreigner.
And that’s all that really counts.
If your diseased little brain was capable of reading more than the first sentence or two of the article, you’d be aware of the fact that UKIP kicked him out, and that Farage was going to be a prosection witness before the trougher realised the jig was up and changed his plea to guilty.
You really are a fucking moron aren’t you.
Amateur.
Milband should be demanding an apology from Pierre Lellouche. But he will not, as he is working against British interests.
But in the mentime, more soldiers are killed in Brown’s Vietnam, Balls is doing his damnedest to wreck education, so it is Labour (monkey) business as usual. And we must pause to recall one simple fact: The Labour government promised a referendum before Britain signed the Lisbon treaty. Not Cameron, or Vince Cable, or Clegg, or Farage, Salmond or anyone else. It was the Labour government who did this. And no amount of silly spinning from one person using four or five different names of varying silliness can change that fact. Labour let us down. Others will have to sort out the mess.
Five more names on Brown’s Wall of Shame, Parents to be treated like terrorists, Pierre Lellouche and his weird anti-British rant, Balls bans schools from offering better exam courses, Shamed Bodycare poppy ban shop does craven u-turn, More Balls on education
Yeah yeah yeah, but Cameron promised one when he knew full well he would never be able to deliver one.
What a bloody Blairite spinner he is.
Fuck off Cameron, you are precisely as bad as Blair and Brown.
My doctor has told me to stop repeating nonsense on blog sites.
Damn him, I can’t stop myself, and I eat my own poo!
At least when the Turks join the EU
We will be able to get really high quality cheap smack
Wot?
The Daily Mail are running this story.
About an hour ago the comments system broke down.
What does THAT tell you.
Take my word the comments that had been posted were rather anti Dave writ very very large.
Surprise surprise.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1225317/A-sorry-day-Britain-democracy-Tories.html
It tells me that Mandelson’s plan has worked.
He has ruined the Tories’ chances of getting elected, planned it for years and they walked straight into it.
You stupid right-wing chumps.
‘You stupid right wing chumps.’
Well that must be us, it certainly ain’t Shameron and co.
They are just NWO pro-EU puppets.
Better to be right-wing – whatever that means in this day and age than lying, vile, treasonous, greedy betrayers of country and people per the entire House of Commons..
NWO?
Oh do give it a rest.
I don’t get that. You mean it was Mandelson’s plan for the Tories to be lying traitors.
The truth is chaps, the boys at the banks have given me an ‘iron cast’ guarantee I wont earn big bucks when theyve done with me,if I don’t do as I’m told about this europe thingy.
Why not sign this petition asking for power to be returned to Westminster?
http://www.gopetition.co.uk/petitions/referendum-on-repatriation-of-powers-from-the-eu-to-westminster/signatures.html
Because I trust Westminster less than I trust Brussels.
I’d rather the UK in the hands of Europeans than American “financiers” (I won’t write the real world as Guido doesn’t like the truth about the Middle East).
Now run along.
I think youll find they have a branch in london too – bank of ‘england’
Read this for more information on what’s behind much of this apparent madness….
http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/books-Preface.html
Common purpose clown eh? Shouldn’t you be on an “I love Brussels” blog?
Well, there we have it. Fuck democracy, eh, “we’re in the hands of the yanks”, lets have a technocratic dictatorship instead, that’s much better.
Keep taking the pills.
Vote for me
I will be and so will many others.
I am not sure about the thing being cut and dried. I received this in the e-mail this morning;
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
I very much value your views on what Conservative policy towards the EU ought to be. Please take a minute to complete the questionnaire below by typing an ‘x’ beside either ‘agree’ or ‘disagree’. Please send it back to daniel.hannan@europarl.europa.eu.
1. David Cameron promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, and should call one regardless of whether the treaty is in effect
Agree Disagree
2. It is too late to hold a referendum on Lisbon, but we must none the less hold a referendum on Britain ’s relationship with the EU
Agree Disagree
3. We should hold a referendum on whether to stay in the EU
Agree Disagree
4. Britain should repatriate control over foreign affairs and defence
Agree Disagree
5. Britain should repatriate control over judicial matters, immigration and home affairs
Agree Disagree
6. Britain should repatriate control over agriculture and fisheries
Agree Disagree
7. Britain should leave the EU, and negotiate a free-trade relationship instead, along the lines of that enjoyed by Switzerland
Agree Disagree
Interesting, but Hannan is not just anti-EU for the sake of it. He believes in US style local democracy and the ultra-centralised, undemocratic, EU is the biggest obstacle to achieving this. He mentioned on his blog something about forming a group to further this plan and leaving the EU is just one step as part of a much bigger reform.
Hannan should become an MP. I’d actively campaign for him to replace Cameron.
Both parliment and the Queen have broken their oaths and the constitution (we have one, don’t believe them) they are both traiters to the people as well as warmongers, openly using the UK military for regime change.
When will the slaves wake up and revolt, when will the people of these isles throw off the shackles that have been put in place by political masters.
War is upon us friends, you haven’t seen it as you are still watching their puppet show.
The fucking royal family a set of sponging traitorous bastards. What is the point of that pair of fuckwits andrew and edward, what fucking justifies their lavish lifestyle at taxpayers expense
I couldn’t believe my ears listening to Sky News this morning. They were saying farewell to the News Editor who was leaving to work elsewhere when one of the Sky news staff said:
“What will we do if Gordon Brown gets buggared?”
Embarrassed looks, smirks, and giggles all round.
What does she mean “if”?
Vote Tory or get five more years of sociopath Brown destroying what’s left of Britain’s economy and society.
That’s the only real choice open to us. Everything else is just infantilism, fantasy, and self-indulgence.
All the ones on this thread slagging off Cameron and calling him a traitor are either UKIP diehards or Labour trolls in disguise.
If you don’t vote Conservative then you risk another five years of Brown, Hain, Ainsworth, Balls, and the glorious comeback of Jacqui Smith.
No you are wrong people genuiney see them all as power hungry traitors. You could not get a fag paper between them. If we vote for any of them we will get more or less the same – don’t kid yourself ffs.
Legion, how old are you? You come across as a teenage idiot who hasn’t grown up yet and is still in the phase of rebelling against his parents.
The choice is: elect Cameron and co or get five more years of Brown. Haven’t the last twelve years shown you how disastrous a Labour govt is particularly under a deranged lunatic like Brown?
The Tories have their faults but they will be a vast improvemnt on the current gang of scumbags. Another five years of Labour would destroy this country for generations.
I’ve got a terrible premonition that ‘destroyed’ is now baked in. Even if Cameron got in tomorrow the seeds of civil unrest, public sector strikes, national default etc etc are already pretty much guaranteed.
Unemployment will continue to rise, jackasses like Bob Crowe are spoiling for a fight, public sector workers are too used to getting an annual payrise on top of their annual march up their pay spine to see sense. You see the signs everywhere – there’s not a newspaper comment or Question Time where some ‘public’ sector worker doesn’t give it ‘it’s the banks fault we’re in the shit – why should I take a pay freeze?’
Labour are just printing as much money as it takes to get them over the election finish line at which point they’ll be rewriting history, claiming Cameron inherited a sound economy and oooooh, look, he wrecked it.
And jackasses like Toynbee will be swooning into their cappuchino bewailing the ‘disasterous’ unemployment, deficits, public sector stikes blah blah.
I could weep.
Not with Cameon in charge they won’t. Cameron is a twat of the highest order. As dishonest as Blair but even less capable.
And also he can’t play the guitar. Plus I think Tony is more friendly and honest ’cause he told us so.
I agree. We’re buggered anyway. Better to let NuLiebor shovel its own shit.
If Cameron had been a Conservative I’d have voted for him with both hands but he’s obviously a phoney of the first water.
Eddie – agreed.
The next few polls will show whether all this indignation is just a minority frothing in the blogosphere (encouraged by and no doubt partly consisting of desperate Labour supporters and party workers) and whether the vast majority of Conservative voters remain onboard.
Given the number of Eurosceptics in the Conservative party, a couple of MEP resignations is a non-event, and if this is mirrored by the real electorate outside the blogosphere, the Conservative lead over Labour will hardly change.
a-a-a-a-ar -argh I am so scared.
That old bogey won’t work this time round cos we know there isn’t a tissue paper of difference between NU labour and Blu Labour.
Give it a rest.
The ‘con’ is up.
You are clearly a Labour troll. Give up, you are out on your arses next year and good fuckin riddance you piece of shit.
Seconded.
Truth Hurts.
Why am I a Labour Troll because I won’t vote for a pack of lying treasonous Tories?
I won’t vote for a pack of lying treasonous Labour scum either.
Does refusing to sell out your country’s sovereignty now make you a Labour troll.
You are nuts.
Yes, if you aint for the Tories, you must be for Labour then. It’s obvious!
Like a lot of people I would say 1381 is actually for Britain, and not the shit self serving parties we are unfortunately lumbered with.
And if I keep on voting Tory like I have been doing for the last 25years then they’ll make me out to be a mug again. Not this time, I’ve learnt my lesson. They aren’t to be trusted. I’m going to vote UKIP from now on and keep on doing so until everyone lese has learned they aren’t to be trusted too.
Who cares what I think.
I like eating my own poo!
Thank god someone is talking sense its a straight choice Liebour or Tory if your dumb enough to vote ukip bnp you will get Liebour then you can spend 5 years moaning on here about those stupid people who let them back in oh yes that will be you !!
I think if Labour were to get back in then the UK would collapse completely before five years are up. The deficits are already exponential and Zimbabwe beckons.
That sound? That’s the sound of the UK economy going down the shitter. Haven’t heard that sound since the last Labour government.
Agreed, just look at the fets of this week alone, europe must take second place to sorting out the economy, on my simple maths we have spent or ‘created’ £60 BILLION this week on top of the existing debt. That is serious s**t. This will be like monopoly moneyif we are not careful. If any one on this blog thinks by voting for UKIP or any other one issue party we will end up in a better place well you certainly are on a different planet to me, we need a strong government to get us out of this mess. Everyones fire over the signing of the Lisbon treaty should clearly be on Brown and labour. As some one said in another place, we did’nt even see him sign the document! He should be the focus of this backlash, he sold us down the river.
And you think “Cast Iron Cameron” is going to give you “strong government?
Oh for God’s sake WAKE UP! The guy has just exposed himself as a lying incompetent fool. The only way you are going to get strong government from the Tories now is if they ditch their lame leader, but it seems that there all whistling the same tune now.
How the hell is Cameron going to pull the economy out of this mess when he gives the job of sorting out the economy to a man whose only qualification is THAT HE’S CAMERONS BEST MATE!
I can’t see for the life of me semi-independent Scotland putting up with another Tory government for 5 years. No way. Hell, even the rest of England and Wales will find another Tory government tough to swallow.
The next Tory government will likely see the break-up of the United Kingdom, which would of course delight the Marxist scum in the Labour party and the Euro trash in the EU no end.
So much for the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Sociopath Brown or sociopath Cameron. What exactly is the difference? The media have been saying for years you can’t tell the two apart and on the one ocassion he had to prove he could say or do something different he blew it.
Cameron will probably get in anyway, but over the next 5 years you’re going to wish he hadn’t. He is a total twat, and so is his bezza mate Osborne.
I am Baiter’s alter ego, though I’m not quite as fond of wanking as he is.
I like eating my own poo!
Me too!!!
We don’t need I D Cards anymore
The greatest identity theft has just been perpertrated on the British people by the establishment
Are you referring to Neathergate? We’re not allowed to mention it on here old chap.
Aren’t we?
Do you think it’s a ‘plant’ by Labour? Get some right wing/Tory comment on this Neathergate story and then play the ‘racism’ card?
Could be.
[...] for the Times says much the same thing, calling Cameron “a real Eurosceptic”, while Guido Fawkes regards it more as a triumph of realpolitik. But those relatively supportive comments are not [...]
“The one thing that is constant is that conservatives believe in furthering the national interest.”
House-trained at last.
“Many more will be wrestling with their consciences.”
Two falls or a submission. Consciences on the canvas.
I don’t see that it is in the party interest to refuse a referndum unless it an actual party interes that we be kept in. Perhaps in the personal interests of some people hoping to be on Euro-quangos but that is a different can of worms. The worst that can happen is that the party achieve some popularity by promising a referendum (referendums are always popular even with no voters since it gives us peasants a voice), the other parties lying gets a good airing & in the end on a full membership or associate status vote. Tories campaign on both sides (as do some Labour & even some LudDims) & the public make a decision which, either way, lances the party’s boil. It is the refusal to allow the people a say in settling this that causes the trouble.
Cameron could have had a Churchillian moment that would have blown the Socialist scum out of the water.Now we have to watch our country die.I’m not too happy about it.
We don’t watch our country die.
We get stuck in and put money where mouths are and campaign and work for the minor party best placed to win in your constituency.
The only possible saving Grace is that when the Dollar and/or Pound crash,we can run in to the Euro quickly.
If we are going down as a bankrupt part of a corrupt EU, let’s go down in style with McDoom in charge, and see him face the results of his socialist actions.
Then folks can really appreciate what Soshalism can do for you rather than this endless cycle of,
Screwed by Labour,
Tories get in, sort it out and get the blame
Labour get back in again and screw it up again
and so on, and so on.
Maybe when we’re really down, we’ll be able to crawl out with our heads held high with a party that truly represents us rather than just landowners or trades unions.
Unlike Cameron I won’t be compromsing my beliefs by voting for him.
This was always going to end in violence.
The Boys have planned for it.
I.D cards for everyone, ( £ 1,000 for not carrying it. I knew this back in
1998 )
Cameras on most street corners.
Federal police (SOCA)
Federal border police, the EU (UK) Border Agency.
Electronic Border Control system for small boats and light planes.
Recordable Black Box in all motor vehicles. Also for Taxing/restricting
travel
Federal transport police (VOSA)
DNA tagging of all who come into contact with state agencies.
DNA collection from children via the medical checks at birth system.
The division of MI5 into sections, Nine (9) based on the Euro regions
of England plus one each for Wales and Scotland.
Restrictions on travel overseas by :
a. A high rate of low level criminal conviction
(Can be used to prevent visas being given)
b. A high rate of debt for young people
(Do not tell your bank if you have been offered a
job overseas, mister/miss student. They can call in
your loan)
“The one thing that is constant is that conservatives believe in furthering the national interest.”
No. That’s wrong. Close, but wrong. The one thing that is constant is that conservatives believe in further the british state. That is because the one thing they seek is to be in power of that, and all else is subservient to that – ideology, principle, care for self or others, all that matters is their preservation of an electoral coalition that allows them to rule these islands.
The national interest lies in ending this ridiculous schism with the rest of our European family, and in fighting to preserve it, conservatives betray that they care nothing for that national interest, but merely for the continuity of the status quo, and their own petty cares.
Hmmm… interesting.
Tho one thing that is constant about Labour is that they want Britain ruled by someone else.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225637/How-Kremlin-hijacked-Labour-Diary-Kremlin-insider-reveals-hold-Soviets-Labour-politicians.html
I think the only difference between then and now is Labour have changed their allegiance from Russia (how sad for them was perestroika) to the federal socialist state of Europe.
It seems we have all been duped, sadly Cameron believes this is what we want. Way to go, Dave.
QUOTE
Anonymous says:
November 5, 2009 at 11:57 am
Who cares?
Our future is in the EU.
If the Tories are stupid enough to encourage a baying mob of half-baked public opinion to withdraw us from the EU, the UK is finished.
We are not capable of maintaining our standards of living alone – we produce nothing of value except toxic financial assets, which are already en route to Zurich as we speak.
Wake up Britain, stop dreaming, and get with the EU programme.
QUOTE
This is the typical double speak of the left. Orwellian.
Dont vote to destroy the country and you are destroying the country.
The EU is destroying the country. we can all see through your distortions, they are so weak.
That’s your opinion.
There are other opinions…
http://www.global-vision.net/distinctive.asp
You don’t have to be in the EU to be successful, take a look at Norway, it’s one BIG success story.
Perhaps then we can do something along the lines of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway_and_the_European_Union
and be a part of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association
Let the voters decide, and abide by it. We all know we blew it last time, and boy! Are we paying the price.
Oh! and let’s get rid of that recently so well caught out buffoon from the Conservative front benches, Ken Clarke. I don’t care if he takes a golden handshake as long as he goes and takes his sorry, badly prepared and thought out opinions with him. Let’s pray he doesn’t write an autobiography.
dont know if you noticed but the High Commissioner for India as he waited at the cenotaphe to lay his wreath was chewing gum. I just say this as it puts everything else into perspective also thought that Dimbleby did a brilliant job of knowing the power of silence during his commentary….as for politics the whole afghanistan situation stinks if the terror threat according to our unelected prime minister is in the hills and mountains
of afghanistan and pakistan why are the Brits fighting at the other end of the country on flat terrain? Hand th mess over to NATO and bring our people home, enough home grown terrorists to keep the military busy foer many years,,,