December 14th, 2012

Merry Christmas Piers


225 Comments

  1. 1
    Kebabs Я Us says:

    Since Sugar became a “lord” he’s been losing the plot

  2. 2
    with a friend like piers who needs an enemy says:

    even CNN will see the light in the end..

  3. 3
    Kebabs Я Us says:

    Never been first before. Where’s 8illy?

  4. 4
    sweet and low says:

    you’re sacked son

  5. 5
    Kebabs Я Us says:

    Yes and then the twat will get a huge payoff just like Brooks.

  6. 6
    Kebabs Я Us says:

    I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire.
    What has he done for this country? All his gear was made in the far east, and none of it worked properly. He parades around like a captain of industry when really he’s just an East End boy who made a few bob.
    What was Gordon Brown thinking to make him a peer?

  7. 7
    Teifion of LLandovery says:

    How come ppl on a big salary like council chief execs, overpaid celebs get HUGE payoffs even when they just decide to spend more time with their families?

  8. 8
    Your Lord Justice Leveson says:

    US chat star rates Hugh Grant ‘most unpleasant’ guest

    Jon Stewart: my least favourite guest (and we’ve had dictators on).

    If ony Piers had appeared.

  9. 9
    Bercow's Bird says:

    Stick it up ya junta Ally !

  10. 10
    Kebabs Я Us says:

    I think that’s what is pissing off so many people in this country.
    No bankers were jailed here, unlike the US.
    Brooks walks away with £10 million after criminal activity.
    Coulson resigns under a cloud and Cameron gives him a job in Downing Street.

    And if these two are convicted, they’ll get short sentences in a 5* Serco open prison with hot and cold running Bollinger, and when they get out they’ll write books for huge fees.

    This country is fucking sick.

  11. 11
    Labour...filth...just filth says:

    thats gordon for you…he managed sir fred so not much discernment

  12. 12
    Anderson Cooper, no relation to Mrs Balls, but who IS the son of Gloria Vanderbilt says:

    And then maybe they’ll give me the 9 o’clock. I’m tired of going up against O’Reilly. I’ve taken one for the team, and I want mine now.

  13. 13
    BBC says:

    Tonight on Newsnight… we will have a ten minute in depth discussion as to why we should stay in the EU. ( 10 participants 30 seconds each. Kirsty 5 minutes interuptions )

  14. 14
    New Labour says:

    We don’t exist now

  15. 15
    smugometer says:

    hes a creep and I suspect most think likewise .. one pony actor recently pretending to be the nation’s conscience .. one of his worst performances

  16. 16
    Sally Bercow says:

    On my way to get my vajazzle. *johns face*

  17. 17
    Expat Geordie says:

    I only watched one series of “The Apprentice” and was frankly appalled. I found one of his comments very telling though. He said that we all remember the big bonuses that we made back in the eighties. The implication being that they hadn’t made any money since. My understanding is that he is worth in absolute termsthe same now as he was in 1988, which with the effect of inflation means that he is worth less than half of he was worth then! Hardly a modern businessman then.

    Too many people that I’ve had the misfortune to work with also seem to think that “The Apprentice” is a documentary and not “entertainment”. This probably explains why Gordon liked it so much. He could abuse people and say that he was following Alan Sugar’s “best practice”.

  18. 18
    HMMM says:

    The original says it all now, just read between the lines:
    On the tenth day of Christmas,
    my true love sent to me
    Ten lords a-leaping,
    Nine ladies dancing,
    Eight maids a-milking,
    Seven swans a-swimming,
    Six geese a-laying,
    Five golden rings,
    Four calling birds,
    Three French hens,
    Two turtle doves,
    And a partridge in a pear tree.

  19. 19
    Welcome Back Piers says:

    He may have an interesting welcome, especially if his performance in the Fayed sponsored Keith Allen film ‘unlawful killing’ becomes widely known to certain parties.

  20. 20
    Hank the Cat says:

    A lot of people who have met say that insists on being called Lord Sugar

  21. 21
    Twitter Watch says:

    He certainly did not prove top Trump on twitter recently…

  22. 22
    Pedant says:

    Re-wording carols because you can
    Is not worthwhile when it doesn’t scan

  23. 23
    IMdb says:

    Piers ” Playing himself”

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1979385/

  24. 24
    I d on't nee d no doctor says:

    Is there a difference?

  25. 25
    I d on't nee d no doctor says:

    The BBC interviewers don’t like it one bit if any of the guests stick up for coalition policies. It can’t be on the auto-que.

  26. 26
    Conned old git says:

    Oi Parky where’s my free pen?

  27. 27
    wot no sant claus IV says:

    Oh yes you do!

  28. 28
    Gordon Brown says:

    He should stick to what he is best at – getting a blow job off a prostitute in the back of a car.

  29. 29
    Noah's book of boatbuiding says:

    He started off selling fridges didn’t he – not exactly brain surgery, is it? But he coined with his plastic Amstrad PCs in the 80s/90s though. But nothing much since.

    But Piers is not the most endearing fella, is he? So I am with them here.

  30. 30
    genghiz the kahn says:

    Piers has come a long way since that Viglen share tipping escapade.

  31. 31
    Sir William W says:

    When the TV people change the shot to Sugar they should use ‘dissolve’.

  32. 32
    Hank the Cat says:

    Lucy reese – you have got read this crap about saville complaining about the with hunt etc. Im sure the bitch is mourning him.

    http://reesesrants.wordpress.com/2012/10/10/my-trip-to-jimmy-saviles-flat/

  33. 33
    Sigmund Fraud says:

    Herr Fawkes I sink you suffer from ze Piers Envy.

  34. 34
    Noah's book of boatbuiding says:

    “Hacking? – I know naathing – I’m from Guildford”

  35. 35
    Anonymous says:

    No, car radio cassettes, an early far eastern import, and they were actually very good value: he, or a minion, chose the right manufacturer. Had one in the 1970s.

  36. 36
    Sir William W says:

    I can remember when Huge Rant was an actor. Now he just appears in movies.

  37. 37
    Anonymous says:

    Which ever way you look at it, Merkel has had a good year and the Euro too.

    In fact you can say that she and Germany now control Europe, lock stock and barrel, including us, even Hollande caved in at the last moment. Dave’s protestations were only ever theatrical and cosmetic for home consumption.

    Not long now and the keys to No 10 will be Hers, Rumpey Pumpey’s and Barroso’s aided and abetted by our rich political elite, and they have the gall to stand at the Cenataph each year remembering those that fought to keep democracy alive. A thousand curses on all their houses.

    Who can disagree now whether you like it or not?

    Check Mate?

  38. 38
    Piss Organ says:

    You don’t like the fact that I am shite
    But I don’t care’ cos I’m allright.
    I just don’t care what you think about me
    Got and get stuffed, you’re all stinky.

  39. 39
    Noah's book of boatbuiding says:

    Cheers – knew it was something like that, but couldn’t be bothered to look it up. Had one of his PC’s, an Amstrad 1640. with even a hard disk (WOW!), in the back end of the 1980s. Was old hat within a year – still worked last time I fired it up, a couple of years back, even it’s EGA coloured screen.

  40. 40
    Herman van Rumboy says:

    You forgot the tedious ‘ Vote ukip’ mantra at the end.

  41. 41
    ah! monika's moniker is a gonner says:

    Now here’s a photo for the Caption comp.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20725001

  42. 42
    Pussy Galore says:

    John’s face is not really suited for vajazzling.

  43. 43
    HMMM says:

    Bring it on, it is only a matter of time before they all crash and burn.

  44. 44
    Kebab with garlic source says:

    Oh fuck. Now Bílly will spend the next thousand posts bragging that Guido thanked him for his spot.

  45. 45
    Pussy Galore says:

    Vote UKIP!

  46. 46
    Michael Parkinson says:

    It’s currently in my rectum – I was trying to rescue a hula hoop that went astray.

  47. 47
    DAVID MILLIBANDWAGGON says:

    Cameron shakes hands with some German bloke !

  48. 48
    ah! monika's moniker is a gonner says:

    Thanks. Worth a read.
    BBC researchers didn’t have far to look.

  49. 49
    Serious answers please says:

    Hello righties. I have a question for you. I know you hate the left, so I won’t argue about that. But have you considered that you need them as much as they need you? By which I mean, you need the left to have them as your antithesis, your hate figure, and vice versa. Without them, who is there to hate or to hold up as a representative of all you despise? The left may wish to live in an-all left world, and you may wish to live in an all-right world, but you’d hate the reality. They’re the Moriarty to your Sherlock.

  50. 50
    DAVID MILLIBANDWAGGON says:

    On a more serious note !
    Another major school shooting in America early reports 27 dead !
    and it’s a kindergarten F F S !

  51. 51
    ah! monika's moniker is a gonner says:

    Cameron goes for a left tit.

  52. 52
    fruitcake says:

    Council execs claim that they deserve fat salries and payoffs else they’d leave and work in the private sector instead….I have news for you Council chairfucks, private sector dishwashers DO NOT get 100K a year.

  53. 53
    DAVID MILLIBANDWAGGON says:

    Or elementary school

  54. 54
    P l e b says:

    A knob of the highest order

  55. 55
    DAVID MILLIBANDWAGGON says:

    Now we know why Dave is so keen on gay marriage !

  56. 56
    P l e b says:

    Just don’t give 5 year olds guns

  57. 57
    P l e b says:

    Why can’t it be the Houses of Parliament

  58. 58
    Mad, Bad & Dangerous Gordon McRuin ( Member in absentia ) says:

    They hate Libor because I abolished Boom and Bust.

  59. 59
    bergen says:

    By and large we’re libertarians on this blog. We hate lies and hypocrisy. A left winger who lived a left wing life (ie not a champagne socialist, nepotistic trougher) would be given a fair hearing.

  60. 60
    Tachybaptus says:

    Oh, I dunno. Glue Swarovski crystals all over it and it would look a bit like Damien Hirst’s diamond skull, only cheaper.

  61. 61
    News Watcher says:

    Shooting @ elementary school, in a kindergarten class. One class so far unaccounted for.

    Not completely unexpected following the earlier mall shooting in Oregon.

    (There is a correlation on the reporting of these types of events, and then follow ups happening elsewhere within a week.)

  62. 62
    P l e b says:

    Does the coalition have any policies?

  63. 63
    Cinna says:

    Cockney barrer boy!

  64. 64
    Engineer says:

    You need to get away from politics, and try real life. You’ll find that most people are not ‘left’ or ‘right’ but hold a mixture of opinions, some a bit leftward, some a bit rightward, and most somewhere between the two. The Westminster Village view of ‘left’ and ‘right’ isn’t really reflected in the real world, either; for example, most people are not that keen on the EU, some quite virulently so. However, the vast majority of people don’t really give a flying f*** for politics, as they have more important things to bother about, such as what to get Aunt Ethel for Christmas, whether England will earn a series win in India, whether it’s OK to consume a pint of Old Peculier with a plate of Moules Mariniere, and where to find reasonably priced vintage Addis and Herring carving chisels. Politics? Oh, piss off….

  65. 65
    Cinna says:

    Thought you’d be saving up for the £50k you’re going to be sued for. Or is *john” paying out of his parliamentry expenses?

  66. 66
  67. 67
    Mycroft says:

    “They’re the Moriarty to your Sherlock”, not sure you have thought that one through :-)

  68. 68
    Tay King-dePisse says:

    Dunblane– before anyone starts casting stones.
    There, I said it. And I’m not ashamed.

  69. 69
    Welcome Back Piers says:

    It is more what he happily says though that surprised me. Don’t think he really wants to return here…

  70. 70
    He who no longer posts says:

    What you have not considered but which I came to realise two or more decades ago is that the differences you have are often more angst filled with those ostensibly in the same party as you as those in parties with contradictory political philosophies. You can often have a good conversation with someone from the enemy because you both accept your differences from the start even if you do not agree.

    I use the term political philosophy tongue in cheek because it barely exists any more. All politicians are corruptible and just the events of the last few days indicate that there is no nice party out there. In place of political philosophy has become rampant self-promotion, greed and opportunism. There are a few basically honest politicians out there but they do not stand a cat’s chance in hell of getting anywhere due to the redundant political machinery we experience and the general apathy of the great British public.

    In addition to this, I completely endorse what bergen says above.

  71. 71
    He who no longer posts says:

    Cor! Addis and Herring carving chisels?

    Out of my reach…

  72. 72
    Expat Geordie says:

    We don’t hate the left. Pity them sometimes, but don’t actively hate them, unless they have done something totally inexcusable. They hate us though. Our very existance winds they up, whereas we tend to adopt the attutude of live and let live. We want things to be good for business and generally want a quiet life, free from state interference. They want to destroy everything and tell us all how to live our lives down to the last detail.

    Even when it comes to left wing and right wing dictatorships, if there really is such a thing as a right wing dictatorship, left wingers start killing and don’t stop, right wingers kill quickly and get it out of the way as it is bad for business. Mao, Stalin/Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot, the Kims, Castro – all left wing dictators who never stopped killing, never stopped destroying thing. The only real right wing dictator that I can think of was Pinochet, was forced into launching a coup to save Chile, got his killing done in a few days, and then got down to reparing the mess that he had been left with. He also voluntarily handed power over – how many left wingers would do that?

  73. 73
    Fact Hunt says:

    Interesting line on ITV national news.

    ‘….UKIP, who have a tough immigration policy….’

    That can’t be right surely, UKIP are a bunch of gadflys, arseholes and racists who are a one issue party.

    Keep knocking on the door Nigel, we’re getting there.

  74. 74
    Suck on those says:

    Say what you like about Angie, but she’s got a fucking lovely pair on her

  75. 75
    Anonymous says:

    in the world of alternative reality….

    cps drops 10% of cases after suspect was charged.
    dpp also sits on the sentencing council.
    sentencing council chaired by leveson is of the view that exchanging childporn is not significant enough to merit a custodial sentence. the public interest being re.defined. were the public consulted?

    the great and the good are waking up.
    can they just be laughed off? a very serious mistake,
    .
    a bridge builder is required….the gap between us and them is getting bigger, it could become a snake pit.

  76. 76
    Blog Watch says:

    Seems in her later posts she admits to having worked for the BBC as well. When talking about Savile:

    ‘My fear is that all of this will destroy the BBC. OK, the BBC is not perfect; I’ve worked there myself and can testify to a culture of waste and inefficiency.’

  77. 77
    HMMM says:

    Knock, Knock,
    Who’s there?
    Five million immigrants!.

  78. 78
    Fact Hunt says:

    LOL. Very good.

  79. 79
    He who no longer posts says:

    The objective of a lefty is to be found in their idea of the Utopian state where anything that is not prohibited is compulsory.

  80. 80
    b3ast of barrows and boiled beetroot says:

    I doubt if that Pharisee celebrates Christmas, typical of his kind he mocks it#

    I wish a merry Christmas to my Asian and Black friends (even Muzzies)
    Even Mohammed venerated Mary and J esus
    The c ho sen on es spit upon him and his flock#
    Thats the enemy

  81. 81
    Leon Milliband , malformed trotskyshite says:

    Why knock?
    Just come in and vote for us

  82. 82
    Ja d e d J ean says:

    Here, here!

    The useful idiots (and trolls?) on here just can’t see how they/we are being played. It’s been that way for centuries.

  83. 83
    Hu Flung Dung says:

    SELF CHOSEN!

    Who controls the worlds porn?
    Who controls the worlds “money”

    I have a funny feeling that the Chinks will not be kowtowing to them so its back to the good old days where they are cleansed from society

  84. 84
    The People of Luton says:

    Margaret Moran = shit bag

  85. 85
    Anonymous says:

    world as a regions.
    it started with middle east and then came the european union. we do not want europe to become like the middle east…but when you import problems. who has been doing it and why.

    with technology racing forward..the components of brave new world supported by 1984 are there. is a huge drama unfolding right now. as the world becomes homo.genised is anything sacred.

    us and them….vast powers at one end….vast numbers at the other. ppl will stand up but as a nation we are dumbed down. moral outrage will do the trick…objectivity requires facts. those with power have the facts and they ain,t sharing. without facts, masses will just be a blob. a blob on the landscape.

  86. 86
    I d on't nee d no doctor says:

    John Snow on Channel 4 News. John, give it up, you are passed your sell by date.

  87. 87
    Margaret Hodge MP says:

    Honour amongst thieves?

  88. 88
    I d on't nee d no doctor says:

    Ed Miliband is aboard the Labour we got immigration wrong Bandwagon. He says you must be able to speak english to get certain jobs. What about dumb people Miliband you fuckwit? Are they band from certain jobs.
    Miliband, any bandwagon will do.

  89. 89
    Non Beetroot boiler says:

    I have told Ma boiled Beetroot about about this for years
    She has at the age of nearly 70 finaly woken up
    I’m no Nick *&^in, however, they are an evil cult, not even a r&c£
    Sort of like the Moonies with headgear and F 16s paid for by imbeciles in America
    Techology that they export to China (for a few sheckels) and steal Russian resources
    Its a parasite just like a cancer
    And the cure is to purify yourself of the virus
    A merry CHRISTmas to you and yours

  90. 90
    John Logie Baird says:

    Mind you though, he’s not completely useless, his ties come in handy as a proxy picture test card these days…just turn the volume off btw.

  91. 91
    Florid sock merchant says:

    Fuck off thats another customer down

  92. 92
    Objectivist says:

    It’s called global balkanization. This is the byproduct of the abandonment of capitalism and the implementation of collectivist ideologies as a result of the march towards one world government.

    It should be stopped as it is creating the conditions ripe for major conflict born of tribalist pressures between regions.

  93. 93
    Rover says:

    It’s called ‘Dog Whistle’ politics….seeing as Mr Ed ssaid before hae gave the speech., “This is not dog whistle politics”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

  94. 94
    Beetroot Marxist says:

    Odd coming from a person whoi seems unable to speak English isn’t it?
    Twat even gestures, shrigs his shoulders and sweats like a Polish money lender

  95. 95
    M16 says:

    The general Media is a load of Sh-t keeping us from the Truth.. The Markets are what are showing us the Truth.. The Political Elite have fu-cked up on a monumental scale and the Truth will out over the next few years as the Pseudo Democratic system falls to pieces..

  96. 96
    Politically Correct Psychiatrist says:

    Margaret Moran = mentally disturbed shit bag

  97. 97
    Anonymous says:

    unlawful killing.
    you cannot be serious. piers is of the view that if the security services do not murder, what is the point of them.

    secret service serve secretly. what secrets should we know about. great and good decide. when did the celebs become their agents.
    celebs are non.celebs. did Mohammed sponser? is the film objective and factual?

  98. 98
    M16 says:

    I wonder how many Sirs. Like SIR Jimmy are part of those Stats. Or the odd copper or odd Judge and Politician.. I can guarantee it isn’t some Low life off a council estate.. Thats why its in the public interest not to let us know about the real low life characteres around us.

  99. 99
    Beetroot Marxist george galloway says:

    Up there with
    “Trust me”
    “I made this just for you”
    “I don’t lie”

    Its in his DNA
    100 years ago this lithping front entry would have been murdering g o y im s for fun , ust as his chum do do to our M uuu zie brothers and sisters ( and children)

  100. 100
    HMMM says:

    Eds, latest policy statement on a postcard:
    .
    .
    .
    .
    . Integrate
    A work of genius (IMHO).

  101. 101
    The Delusional Hypnotic Back Breaker. says:

    Piers Morgan is not worth 2 minutes of my time.

  102. 102
    Engineer says:

    The political classes have stolen politics from the great majority of people. What’s the point in joining a political party these days? You don’t even get a say in who your parliamentary candidate will be in most constituencies, you just accept the chosen one foisted upon you from the central party list.

    Until political types actually engage with people again, they will continue to be despised by the majority.

  103. 103
    Religion Watch says:

    I.s.l.a.m. recognizes Jesus as the Messiah, and the Qu’ran also makes mention of Mary and the immaculate conception. It also teaches that Jesus (Isa) shall return to defeat Dajjal (the false Messiah – anti-christ) close to the Day of Judgement. Dajjal it is written should appear somewhere between Syria and Iran. Jesus shall assist or be assisted by the twelfth prophet, the Mahdi, in this righteous battle.

    Details differ by denomination slightly, but the theme is the same. Christians and Muzzies will one day unite against the enemy.

  104. 104
    Derron Brown says:

    I am a pathetic abusive arsehole who is an utterly shite at psychology and the power of suggestion.

  105. 105
    the furry fish says:

    my best chisel had a little picture of a wood screw etched near the handle bit. Incredibly strong where other sets would disintegrate. Bitch has all the wood I sent aside unfortunately.

  106. 106
    Mr Gupta says:

    Oi!…Mind Your Language….and…Love-Thy-Neighbour

    Who’d a thunk that those simpl,e classic TV comedies were so maliciously politically motivated against the indigenous population?

    Can you think of some latter-day TV progs that have the same modus operandi?

  107. 107
    Engineer says:

    They crop up quite regularly on a certain internet auction site, and several reputable dealers can often supply for less than the price of good new chisels by the likes of Ashley Isles.

  108. 108
    Adolf Hitler says:

    Hope so…I tried my best!

  109. 109
    83a5t of inclusiveness says:

    Shame that his quisling Pa managed to sneak into the country with two outstreched hands, swarthy skin and a PHD in Huntship
    So against N421sm that he ran away rather than fight
    He Left that to the idi07 g0y
    Nonceband probably got that speach impediment from having been oraly raped at school by his racialy superiior natives who actually belong her

  110. 110
    Is he a qwuare? says:

    You left out the fact that you are also a poof!

  111. 111
    Political Scientist says:

    As Bergen states, the ethos of this blog is libertarian, and most of its commentators are also.

    The thesis / anti-thesis summary of left and right is crude, but can be worked with.

    It is important though that both are operating within a libertarian framework.

    Libertarian philosophy over arches the political and economic specifics of what people consider left / right wing views. The tri-polar system is required for balanced argument and conclusions, libertarian philosophy preferred as personal freedom is of paramount concern irrespective of politic and economic system.

    What cannot be tolerated and will provoke strong reaction are anti-libertarian values and views. The synthetic ideology which is presented by the EU and expressed in UK politic at present is abhorrent here for this reason. Fabian beliefs, and many aspects of Gramsci / Frankfurt school similarly should be rejected.

    The thesis requires anti-thesis, as the left requires right: There is no question about this. Provided both sides of the dialect are operating within a libertarian framework, views are fine, and the dynamic of debate can take place reasonably.

    The only enemy is the anti-libertarian, and the anti-libertarian synthesis of thesis and anti-thesis as stated.

  112. 112
    Anonymous says:

    either world is bust.
    or there is nothing sacred….so ppl get provoked.
    or muslims want trouble.
    |
    then there is close monitoring…technology is there.
    there is dumbing down….same rubbish everywhere.
    _
    the ppl who are laughing is who win no matter what happens.
    lawyers, moneymen and Big Bro.
    who supports them,
    |
    issue is us and them. collectivism is the answer to how can the gap be made faster and deeper. none of the ism,s are trouble free. when 1 pound of my effort is diluted by the banking system by a factor of 7, then that is dishonest…by a factor of 7. this is a big number.
    ////
    beware though of the saviour as one may emerge, are his hands clean?
    ppl need to access their own power. the system has been deeply abused.
    truely,
    madly,deep
    ly,

  113. 113
    You couldn't make it up says:

    There is a certain Alice in Wonderland feel to having a destructive imbecile immigrant such as Milimong, unable to speak English properly, telling us who we should and shouldn’t allow into our country, and having him dictate to us whether we can or cannot allow them to have ‘public service jobs’ if they can’t speak English properly.

  114. 114
    Is he a qwuare? says:

    Spot on
    Mock “Racsism” when its a white
    I get on wonderfully with my “coon” neighbours
    They do bad things like attend church, give to charity, wave to me and invite my white ass into their homes
    I hate them NOT
    There are two people that I loathe on my Rd
    Ones a Spanish number one times by 4 and two the other is Italian and suspect

    The Spic is also an “Arrtist”
    For me that means he should be shot

  115. 115
    Blowing Whistles says:

    I still wonder what really happened to Matthew Hardings Chopper?

  116. 116
    The BBC causes serious mental illness says:

    Question Time, Newsnight, …

  117. 117
    eastwith a B says:

    Just wondering why we have such things as a “Job Centre Plus”!

    Is there a lesser level of Dole scrounging?

    Theismaniac centre for benefits?

    My20childrensbeneediningabus centre?

    I will tell you how how stupid we are, even the Chinese are claiming, I have seen them with my own non slanted eyes

  118. 118
    fitzfitz says:

    May we see Cath Ashton’s Christmas card , Guy ?? ( Cath is busy defending Gibraltar from Spanish navy incursions … ).

  119. 119
    Anonymous says:

    .
    curses have power.
    curse and then some more. it could spread. the power of the virus.

    not all that is viral becomes a virus.
    power thru politics is a non.starter.

  120. 120
    Blowing Whistles says:

    The abuse by those who have ‘used’ and ‘abused others’ with their use of the anti-semitism card so conveniently for the past 6 decades is all but at an end.

    They are well and truly found out as ‘are their political puppets’ throughout the world. But don’t tell Cameron or blair – they still think that their paymasters will pull it off – they won’t. Besides Cameron and Blair can’t exactly jump ship now after being found out for their total and utter subordination.

    I see the milipede man is still pumping out his one nation bilge and drivel!

  121. 121
    eastwith a B says:

    Derron
    Next time you play russian Roulette
    Can I both make and load the round?
    It would be a blast
    North Korean style

  122. 122
    Carroll Watch says:

    In the sense of getting high on o.p.i.u.m. and fondling young girls, yes, you have a point about the hypocrisy of the Liebour Millipede. Munged with Naked Lunch, I think bang on the money.

  123. 123
    eastwith a Clarkson tone says:

    Bowls to the spics
    A nation that has the contents of a dustbin as its national dish and can’t even have a proper Foriegn Legion
    They sell breeze block mud huts to British Idiots and still cant make a profit
    Fucking Idiots !

  124. 124
    Blowing Whistles says:

    Only hours ago the issue of another gun killing in Amerika is reported. Scant details have been forthcoming about the 20 year old killer / his background / what can have led him to do it / why he in particular was driven to it [possibly by who in the background] – YET they’re all calling for gun controls ….

    Me thinks that the timing of it [yet another call for gun control in Amerika] is all a bit too ‘managed & manipulated’ … by tptb.

    We need “less knee-jerk reactionary 5hit” from ‘on message journos, politicos & hacks than ever before.

    The way the press mob – “CONSISTENTLY REACT & OVER-REACT TO THESE THINGS” is becoming quite “TELLING”.

  125. 125
    Fishy says:

    He says….blurb…got…blah…it…wrong….blah…blah. BUT NOT ENOUGH IS BEING DONE TO INTEGRATE PEOPLE.

    See! It the Tories fault. They’re not doing enough to integrate people.

    What an effin’ low-life turd Miliband is.

  126. 126
    Anonymous says:

    national interest, public interest.
    .
    not to prosecute……implies a closed system.
    anything is possible in a closed system, and then we senti.mentalise. xyz who fought for our freedom.
    how free are we when we sleep?
    we are asleep.

  127. 127
    I Fist my own Arse by Using my Own Head says:

    Ah the 70’s those were the days when one could drive around listening to
    one’s 8 track with very little traffic one the roads.

    Looking back it was true bliss, and sadly a distant memory.

  128. 128
    He who no longer posts says:

    Why, Political Scientist, don’t we have a structured account of Libertarian philosophy? We have a novel by Rand but we do not attract the attention of many in the thinking classes possibly because of this rather startling omission. Amongst the far too many ambitions which I have set myself is to write one to fulfil what I see as a need but frankly I don’t think I am good enough to do it well enough as I am merely an enthusiastic amateur.

    I also suspect that even the two dimensional graphs produced by Nolan and the like are still not the complete story and we all have failed somewhere in the analysis of this. No doubt there are those who would argue that any attempt to structure Libertarianism is bound to end in failure as it does not lend itself to such approach and its heterodoxy is actually its strength. My instincts suggest to me that this is not the case and daily we face criticism that we are simply anarchists (clearly not so) but it is difficult to see how one may embark on a proof whilst the very ground is not properly defined.

  129. 129
    I Fist my own Arse by Using my Own Head says:

    Why does Kirsty always look like she’s sucking a cock when talking ????

  130. 130
    He who no longer posts says:

    Agree, Engineer, but the situation you so accurately describe is surely down to our redundant political machinery that I mentioned.

    However, instead of improving it, the workings of the EU actually make things worse!

  131. 131
    He who no longer posts says:

    Probably the best chiseller is that crook MP who has a tiny, tiny, tiny holding in Stemcor?

  132. 132
    I Fist my own Arse by Using my Own Head says:

    I think you are a little bitter and twisted at the moment.

  133. 133
    Anonymous says:

    liberty?
    there is such a thing as taking liberties.

    freedom, what for?
    say i am heavily sedated but free, is that worthwhile?

    a life worth living,
    what is that. it is all about power. freedom is a start. not the end.
    what does it mean to be human.
    there is such a thing as decency.

  134. 134
    I Fist my own Arse by Using my Own Head says:

    They never knock. They walk in and take what they like.

  135. 135
    I Fist my own Arse by Using my Own Head says:

    You were a serious underachiever old boy.

  136. 136
    Alvin the Chipmunk says:

    I still want a hula hoop, but you can keep that one, Parky old man, I’m not that desperate.

  137. 137
    Manuel says:

    Que

  138. 138
    eastwith a Clarkson tone says:

    RW

  139. 139
    eastwith a Clarkson tone says:

    You left out three year old boys

  140. 140
    The wizz says:

    Are you really of this planet?

  141. 141
    DAVID MILLIBANDWAGGON says:

    So has Eric Pickles and he looks more like a woman !

  142. 142
    DAVID MILLIBANDWAGGON says:

    5 million immigrants who want you pay me benefit much thanking

  143. 143
    The wizz says:

    I am a fully paid-up member, and a lot of my associates have also joined.

  144. 144
    FFS says:

    Talking of Christmas –

    One has to hope that this New York Times headline from their RSS feed is as inaccurate as the rest of the cr@p we read in the papers :

    “New York Times” –

    “Live Video Coverage of the School Shooting”

  145. 145
    not a machine says:

    Your not a 14yr old white girl being groomed and just been given a pamphlet to read before you meet some cousins for some cigarettes and vodka are you ….. so you know you feel its all right what they want you to do …. are you ?

  146. 146
    Political Scientist says:

    That is an important and deep question: Define libertarian philosophy.

    My view is that it has likely been overlooked, and itself very complex. The semantic divergence which has emerged between European and North American schools serves to further confuse.

    The framework for analysis in my view should focus on the moral and deontological aspects of action foremost. The notions of legitimacy of state and private property are not quite abstract enough to be considered core.

    The generalization of those notions to an irrational acceptance of some governing metaphysical construct is perhaps more valid, and has interesting corollaries. This also would provide a nice anti-thesis to the inherently anarchic thesis provided by natural rights.

    Libertarian philosophy could then be regarded as a synthesis of the rational thesis of action, which the irrational thesis of abstract governance – a very powerful combination, and certainly reflective of the spirit of man.

    (When looked at this way it is possible to map the structure of evolved law in the UK, from understanding the divine down to common law based on natural law directly as a libertarian construct. The same is also true for the concept of sovereign entities. Out-laws are expressly anti-libertarian.)

    I suspect that in order to arrive at a formal definition of the philosophy, the inevitable closed arguments which will arise from the deontological components will be hardest to resolve.

    Considering your other points:

    Libertarian philosophy allows order to exist by mutual consensus rather than direct coercion, and importantly allows order to exist which respects the natural rights understood by all men. This aspect frightens and confuses those who do not respect the natural rights of men, or who do not understand the concept of mutual consensus. This incomprehension will be rationalized as a view that the observed structure is anarchic.

    Further, my interpretation is that libertarians will react strongly against direct coerced order and will use a style of anarchy as the primary weapon against, in preference to force.

    This may be further why some equivocate libertarianism with anarchy falsely as libertarians will not conform to coerced patterns contrary to natural rights.

    Restoration of an order based on mutual consensus is the latent desire for the majority of people, and in particular for those with a genuine libertarian outlook on life.

  147. 147
    not a machine says:

    mmm early media coverage does seem a bit voyeristic , perhaps now that USA seems pecularly prone to these new culture related attrocities , they have lost a sense of reporting them in anyway but sensationalistion

  148. 148
    eastwith a Clarkson tone says:

    Yup
    Go find some love in a gogue hehehhe

    Same values?
    NOPE

  149. 149
    Raymond Baxter says:

    Have to admit that the 1st Amstrad home pute kicked the shit out of the ZX spectrum and the BBC Micro but they lost their way when attempting to be the home and business pc of choice. A bit unfair on them really as they were superior to the microsoft tat but windows in the end was an unbeatable if not bloated product.

    So near so far. Sugar was on the cusp of being the world’s PC provider.

  150. 150
    The wizz says:

    Ok. Now start to rewrite the whole thesis, and allow for comments!

  151. 151
    Residents of Bellend Street says:

    No 1. Dave Bellend
    No 2. Nick Bellend
    No 3. Gideon Bellend
    No 4. Owen Jones

  152. 152
    Easily hypnotised chav that watches Derron Brown says:

    Cluck, cluck.cluck, I am a chicken.

  153. 153
    Political Scientist says:

    The taking of liberty can be regarded as the denial of a natural right. It is possible to deny liberty, the justice system uses this, particularly when society delivers punishment for a committed crime. Denial of liberty is the strongest humane sanction society can impose on those who transgress the natural rights of others.

    Freedom for the individual and by extension society is a natural right, which if denied will weaken society. If you are sedated by choice, and free in spirit that is fine. If you are not sedated by choice, you are by definition not free which is an infringement of your liberty and not fine.

    The relative value of life is for the individual to determine.

    Coercion towards false ideals or bad life choices have negative moral consequences and are abominations. It should be observed that even the religions only make promises of reward to the individual after death in return for actions performed during life, which is much more honest than the false promises projected today and generally not realized.

    Decency is a relative concept. Consideration of the moral consequence for actions against fellow men is important, and decency can be perceived in these terms. Decency does exist, but in these terms is not as one usually perceives it.

    To be human for most of us, is simply to be.

    A life worth living is that which is freely actualized without causing harm to others.

  154. 154
    Ed it's a secret how my family made all that splish splosh Miliband says:

    I didn’t spend my formative years under an oak tree.

  155. 155
    Ed it's a secret how my family made all that splish splosh Miliband says:

    He read from notes as he didn’t have two months to revise so he could speak without notes.

  156. 156
    Expat Geordie says:

    I see that the Telegraph online has just published Kenneth Kendall’s obituary.

    There is no justice in the world. Kenneth Kendall, a newsreader and former soldier who was wounded fighting for his country, dead. Piers Morgan, a lowlife piece of shit, who published fake pictures of “British soldiers” pissing on a Arab (what else are Arabs for?) which probably got his country’s soldiers killed and gave succour to our enemies, is still stealing oxygen.

  157. 157
    US Watcher says:

    The US typically has about 20 of these sort of incidents / year.

    There was one covered earlier this week, a shooting in a mall in Oregon.

    The media coverage may well trigger some more elsewhere in the country, and maybe Canada. Typically things will be ‘hot’ for the next six weeks. The odds may be higher as well given that it is Christmas.

    Would expect to see the anti-second-amendment lobby out in force, which should be struck down. However – the case for ownership of semi-automatic weapons is looking a lot weaker after this incident.

    On the flip side, look up what has been going on in Anaheim and else where over there this year and it will be clear why loss of the second amendment right would be a disaster for the people.

  158. 158
    FFS says:

    Errr

    Do You Think They Have “Live Video Coverage of the School Shooting”

    If not what is your point….

  159. 159
    Residents of Brown Close says:

    No 1. Gordon Brown
    No 2. * vacant *
    No 3. * vacant *
    No 4. * vacant *

  160. 160
    Saffron says:

    Totally off subject.
    Just watched a bit of heroes partly hosted by that pi–s artist schonifeldt.
    Would rather have seen ordinary members of the public involved in this rather than an overblown nest of wannabee celebs,who frankly are not worth a gnats chuff as to what these people have gone through.
    They should be ashamed,jumping on an injury bandwaggon to promote their shallow attention seeking agenda.
    Why oh why are we the public giving these assholes the oxegen of publicity they seek daily.
    To general public wake up smell the coffee and tell em to feck off.

  161. 161
    FFS says:

    Suggest you have a look at this :

  162. 162
    Bloody Press says:

    Its the Bloody Papers who are jumping on the band-wagon as usual – load of slimy drunken twats that they always have been – my old man was right.

    Nothing has changed in the last 50 years.

  163. 163
    "Dai the cash in hand" says:

    U just jelly…

  164. 164
    Saffron says:

    Before I go to bed another response.
    My wife says that in her opinion,my England is not my England any more,I now feel like a alien in my own country.
    Who caused this to happen,well in my opinion there is only one bunch of assholes who inflicted this on England and it is in my opinion this load of LIEBOUR PRICKS who caused this,stand up RED ED AND YOUR OTHER LIEBOUR TOSSERS AND BE COUNTED>

  165. 165
    US Watcher says:

    FOXCT have a live stream set up. You can access via latimes if you wish to watch. (I am not viewing it myself)

    It is voyeuristic, and frankly ghoulish.

    My point though is that such coverage is actually very irresponsible as it has been shown to act as a trigger for other similar events, usually the window is +6 weeks.

    It is a big story and by definition is sensational. A live video feed to the scene, or advertising such is not cool.

    The knowledge that an event will be sensationalized is enough to trigger those of a similar bent. Identification of the shooter or even showing a picture of him will likely happen very quietly in a few days time.

    This cannot be equivocated with the way media cover events here.

  166. 166
    Bloody Press says:

    Nothing to do with that Bloody Ausie who connived with that Bloody Woman to take our freedoms away then.

    Pity I don’t ‘believe’ any more ’cause I can’t comfort myself with pictures of them burning in eternity with Charlton Heston….

    Never mind eh!

  167. 167
    FFS says:

    My point was that the Headline was totally untrue – quite a simple point to which you seem to want to write an off topic essay to in each response each time.

    Why not post you thoughts on another section instead of clouding this issue.

  168. 168
    FFS says:

    Sorry BW – that was for USW

  169. 169
  170. 170
    US Watcher says:

    Sorry FFS – misunderstood your post.

    There is a live feed from NY Times : It is on one of the blog sites – Google and you will get it.

  171. 171
    Cars of the Stars says:

    Dave drives. 4 Litre Bellend

  172. 172
    Blowing Whistles says:

    Pol-Sci – you stated “… as the left requires the right” – the lefty mongrels cannot survive without being able to argue with the righty mongrels AND vice versa. They ‘the politicised left & right’ are the bastards who are all leading us to ruin. They seen nothing beyond fighting against their political opposite. Wake up good honest and decent people – with proper morals – YOU DON’T even have to belong to one or t’other of the competing religious schools of thought – you just need a proper thinking brain.

  173. 173
    I Fist my own Arse by Using my Own Head says:

    Just hearing the name Piers Morgan or Moron, makes me sick.

    When his smug face turns up on the TV I turn over or off.

  174. 174
    Divine Brown says:

    I can vouch for that!

  175. 175
    Blowing Whistles says:

    And who do you think is laughing their bollox off as you constantly attack the muzzies for THEM? Think man think – are you just another deluded puppet?

  176. 176
    Blowing Whistles says:

    tryagain
    The abuse by those who have ‘used’ and ‘abused others’ with their use of the anti-semitism card so conveniently for the past 6 decades is all but at an end.

    They are well and truly found out as ‘are their political puppets’ throughout the world. But don’t tell Cameron or blair – they still think that their paymasters will pull it off – they won’t. Besides Cameron and Blair can’t exactly jump ship now after being found out for their total and utter subordination.

    I see the milipede man is still pumping out his one nation bilge and drivel!

  177. 177
    oops. too quick off the mark says:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e42_1355512817

    Calling Leveson…..

  178. 178
    Blowing Whistles says:

    God spare us the fucking ranks of journos and broadcasters [appeasing their political masters] ‘talking up and sensationalising’ every ‘on the spot / as it happens news feed’ of “THE ACTION!!!!! happening live as “WE” bring it to you!!!”

    Many – broadcasters and journos – need to watch the film “Wag the dog” and then take a deep breath AND smell the coffee … you pricks.

  179. 179
    He who no longer posts says:

    I find that a very useful overview. I strongly agree that the matter has been overlooked and this fact has been burning away at me for some time. That must be on account of its difficulty and immense diversity both in scope and in its variations in practice on different continents.

    From my formerly retracted skeptical position, I do not have a problem with a governing metaphysical construct in itself but would approach with great care an irrational acceptance to it, even if it was of a We hold these truths to be self-evident type, which still managed to allow slavery and prevented female emancipation for a while! However one must accept that every system has to commence with a given or two. So we must do a better job here even than the founding fathers did! No easy task.

    The normative ethical aspects are also clearly going to present a real challenge although a number of these should be very straightforward. Your approach seems to be largely Nozick based but I think we also experience here utilitarianism, pragmatism together with sprinklings of virtue, Locke, Hume, Mill, Kant’s Imperative, Rawles and even consequentialism! Thus your final thought of a mutual consensus providing a basis for restoration of an order is going to have to satisfy a number of diverging opinions! Possibly, the longer it is left, the harder that will be…

    Very good historical point along the way. I want to think about that for much longer.

    You seem to be suggesting that the charges of anarchy are valid criticism as they come as much from within libertarianism (for defensive reasons) as they do from hostile critics. I suspect you are correct.

    I am left with two really nagging thoughts. The first is that all good philosophies must be capable of being expressed quite simply in order to gain currency. We are just complicating it for now, necessarily so, but I am still looking for a third axis on that graph!

    The second is what does humanity have to go through to get to a new system? We have steered away from revolution so far. On the other hand look where it has got us. Uncomfortable…

  180. 180
    not a machine says:

    I would think given the scale of the cultural vandalism , and economic destruction , stand up and resign their seats is the only real terms those of us who can see it , should ask for …
    The trouble is it takes time to weigh up marx or gramsci and the philosphoies , before you begin to see the true value of freedom from coercerion , christianity and earned values . I mean you can be very educated and still not grasp where these hard socialist ideaologies truly fail .

    Perhaps it is because we have never had a written constitution , that we have always been able to defend the ultimate question about goverment , and why our parliament has perhaps at least some success historically ,when compared to other countries that have been culturally destroyed by communism. I rather wish we had done somthing much earlier on in the 20th century , to have saved us the trouble of being an overpopulated land facing , the expensive lawyers argument , that need never have come about had we not allowed such leftwing seductions to entertain and mock democracy , but then the unions have backed them all the way , to this situation . we have allowed to be funded our own unquestioned cultural funeral pyre ….

  181. 181
    Fishy says:

    He says….blurb…got…blah…it…wrong….blah…blah. BUT NOT ENOUGH IS BEING DONE TO INTEGRATE* PEOPLE.

    See! It the Tories fault. They’re not doing enough to *integrate people.

    What an effin’ low-life turd 0Miliband is.

  182. 182
    Welcome Back Piers says:

    In discussing evidence provided to the inquest by Dearlove:

    Piers stated: ‘When you have the head of british security services calmly announcing that we have not killed anybody in the last 50 years, I laughed out loud. What’s the point of them then. ‘

    Piers then went through James Bond / dark stuff line before stating: ‘So the idea that we’re meant to believe that in 50 years that british secret agents have never actually killed anyone, I don’t believe it. So if you don’t believe that, where does that leave the rest of the establishment evidence ?’

    One does not think it wise to question the establishment evidence on this subject quite so openly. In the context of the film, this assertion made one of its points quite well, likely not what was intended in the interview context.

    Fayed paid for the film.

    It was factual and on that basis objective, but very negatively biased. It relied heavily on evidence provided in the inquest, and notes from a ‘mole’ reporter who was apparently keeping an eye on the reporters who were covering the inquest @ RCJ.

    The only part of the film of real interest is the last few minutes, where it is reinforced that the inquest verdict was ‘unlawful killing’ by ‘following vehicles’ and that those vehicles were not paparazzi, and this was the strongest verdict allowed by the court.

  183. 183
    The wife of the most senior parliamentarian in the UK says:

    https://twitter.com/SallyBercow/status/279721553208426496

  184. 184
    Tell U Wot says:

    Madder than a Moran.

  185. 185
    Kebab Time says:

    Same as last year – I get put on fence duty as soon as it gets cold – hopefully back in the booth soon

  186. 186
    A Spouse from Hell says:

    Little John has got his work cut out with that one. Self inflicted though.

  187. 187
    Political Scientist says:

    I get your point, but the ideal of removing political ideology is a non starter: Politic is an expression of a key instinct in man: survival. To deny this expression is an denial of liberty.

    The key is to ensure that the philosophy which governs the politic is of the right nature. I argue (and believe) that libertarian philosophy is the best under which the political poles can coexist without being destructive.

    As others on the thread have alluded to, many people do not have ‘a proper thinking brain’ as you put it to process these concepts, and they rely on others to provide these aspects of life. This is not to denigrate the many, but should be viewed in the same light that a politician or philosopher would generally rely on someone else to drive their bus, or produce their food.

    The ‘mongrel’ element which you rightly chastise are a reflection of politic at either end operating under overtly anti-libertarian philosophy as at present. Fabianism appears to be in vogue on the left, corporatism seems a little popular as well at present, totalitarianism is hiding in the wings.

    Removal of the political poles without change of philosophy will not change a thing, but will make the situation worst.

    Before yearning for eradication of left and right, consider that real debate would cease as contrary views in a purely centrist system would by definition not exist.

    In such a system, libertarian views cannot exist, ergo freedom is lost.

    This is a very dangerous territory to enter, and should be challenged.

    Liberty which has been enjoyed to date was paid for in blood by our fore fathers. If it is given away, it will cost yet more blood to regain. It may be best to avoid such a situation by simply changing the framework within which the leadership thinks.

  188. 188
    Tachybaptus says:

    They love Wag the Dog: it tells them they’re powerful. Can anyone think of a film in which a journalist with pretensions is put firmly in his place? I can’t — probably because films are made by media types and glorify their own people.

  189. 189
    Noah's book of boatbuiding says:

    Heard, via her twitter (so it must be true) that our Sal is getting a tat. Here is a sixty year odd old bloke getting his first tat, Jeff the Books, the Dylan Thomas expert and bookshop keeper, Sal,

  190. 190
    Political Scientist says:

    The governing metaphysical construct I only referred to as the trap of irrational (or perceived rational) belief being rooted in one of state, god or private ownership as axiom would be worth avoiding. Your point on this is directly to mine.

    Am thinking myself about the third axis, and agree that the statement should be simple.

    To get back to a more libertarian system all that is required is change of leadership to replace those currently in power with people of a more libertarian mindset, and as it hasn’t been fully defined, I guess that means those with better moral standards. In an functioning open democracy, such a change starts by electing appropriate representatives.

    The flaw to libertarianism is similar to the flaws which exist for empathy. They are both defensively weak when under subversive predatory attack. The philosophy I believe relies on the individual being in touch with their natural rights, something that has been very seriously subverted in recent years.

  191. 191
    Sally Watcher says:

    Ooh – how did she do at ice-skating today ???

    Good to see she’s tweeting so looks like she survived.

  192. 192
    Noah's book of boatbuilding says:

    Jezzuzzz – I need to get glasses, fecking second typo and I missed it earlier. Bluddy Buidling!?! wot an old knob I am.

  193. 193
    Noah's book of boatbuilding says:

    …and yes modbot, human or lines of software, we are the same – check me IP, if you don’t believe.

  194. 194
    Noah's book of boatbuilding says:

    I stalked her twitter twattering – she did sound a bit shitting knickers, come to think of it. Survive? them sorts always do – they know too much, high up you know.

  195. 195
    Sally Watcher says:

    I followed her yesterday for half an hour – it was like an textual episode of neighbours but with profanity. She said she was going ice-skating today – according to her tweets yesterday – first time at 43 and all that. Her feet, ankles and legs may well be aching for a few days.

    Am going to be following the tattoo saga – hope she twit-pics it.

    (I do not need haldol, just something about her tweets which is catchy, in small doses)

  196. 196
    Noah's book of boatbuilding says:

    Link to Jeff the Books, for all culture vultures that visit here.

    http://www.dylans.com/

    Dyl’s hundredth birth party has already started by the way, for next October,

    http://www.dt100.info/

  197. 197
    Noah's book of boatbuilding says:

    google “Jeff the Books”, and “Dylan Thomas 100″, then modbot, and all culture vultures that visit here.

    Better, you load of strings of software?

  198. 198
    Noah's book of boatbuilding says:

    I only do my stalking of her now and then, for a couple of minutes, when she’s in the news – so many people to twitter stalk and so little time! : )

    I like Sal I do – she’s got spunk!

  199. 199
    Telly (Savalas) Prompter says:

    .. a u t o C U E. Geddit?

  200. 200
    Chink chink - hear the money? says:

    Maybe – if Goldbog Socks don’t buy the place up first.

  201. 201
    Rio choc ices R Us says:

    Match of the Day?

  202. 202
    Tachybaptus says:

    Bette is to pine on coals and chalke,
    Then trust on Mon whose yerde can talke.

  203. 203

    Damned slippery ground this is in places – just like climbing on the rocks immediately after the sea has gone out.

    I do take the point about perceived rational belief and as stated, my thoughts on the historical aspects of this and any transition therefrom requires, on my part at least (probably because I am slow!), some reflection. I admired the sheer simplicity of the way you expressed it but feel that its onwards development needs to be mapped in a post-historical mode rather akin to McTaggart’s B series of time in order to avoid infinite regress.

    You are more optimistic than I on the mechanics of change and I cite inertia, complacency, unfathomable levels of debt, and most ironically exactly the same human greed that caused Marxism to fail.

    Where do you date the subversion that you referred to as being in recent years?

    I see several turning points as being contributory to this. First was the rise of the logical positivists/empiricists which brought about the almost total destruction of Idealism, now seemingly (and happily for me) on the way back from the dead. It is easy to see how science achieved its supremacy but at what a cost! So 1930s as stage 1. The Second World War and its aftermath as stage 2 with welfare state and the more rapacious forms of European Unionism (disguised almost completely by the Soviet empire which surprised all observers with its sudden failure) and with echoes in architectural brutalism on the one hand and Bretton Woods and the subsequent Smithsonian Agreement on the other. The third candidate was all important for me and started in 1997 with the right-on New Labour approach, and then taken up across the globe, particularly with regard to banking supervision (or rather complete lack of) which cost me my career (unimportant to mankind) but destroyed the concept of value, something which I prophesied in vain at the time.

    All these stages spill over into so many other aspects of human existence that it is difficult to determine which is cause and which is effect.

  204. 204
    He who no longer posts says:

    Correction:

    When do you date the subversion…

  205. 205
    Noah's book of boatbuilding says:

    Bugger it, might as well post it here for Sally, since I have just post it to Edd emm, here, for my paltonic love for him, trying to tell his brother “You have nowt charisma – get over it Dave”, here,

    http://order-order.com/2012/12/13/tell-hodge-the-dodge-to-answer-guidos-questions/#comment-1526118

    Brothers, ey? Who’ll have them? Bitter shits they can become, not seeing Joe Bloggs street sense.

  206. 206
    A 'Progressive' says:

    “Does the coalition have any policies?”

    Sort of, they have the vitally important to the well being of the nation policy of gay marriage and…..errr…..ummmm……ahhhhh…….oh yes, continuation of New Labour policies on everything else.

    Hope that helps.

  207. 207
    A 'Progressive' says:

    Let’s face facts here, the muzz deserve to be attacked and should be deported en masse to a land that they feel at home in. The Juice, ditto.

  208. 208
    Noah's book of boatbuilding says:

    Shove it, might as well post this for the quickly closing in world of SE England, with their walls with true time is closing in, with Wimbledon tickets even being sold to them sorts these days, from the other side of the tracks – yes, the Labour supporters,

  209. 209
    A 'Progressive' says:

    Fayed, Allen and Morgan, a bigger trio of talentless tossers, liars and crooks, you couldn’t find if you searched the globe for ten years. And we are supposed to take them seriously? Why not throw in Charlotte Church and Sting for some gravitas?

  210. 210
    A 'Progressive' says:

    Vote UKIP?

    What a splendid idea, you never know, we might just end up with a government that gave a shit about the people who live here and democracy.

  211. 211
    Taffy on a cross says:

    oh I give up

  212. 212
    Anonymous says:

    Просто было отправлено это на YouTube
    Видео из моих русских друзей, в yankeeland – дай мне силы,

    The video the yank is pisstaking, comrades,

    So let us little englanders wait for nuclear WWIII missiles to be sent between them, falling short on us, and shit, shall we?

  213. 213
    Taffy on a cross says:

    oops, that was me, non-anon.

  214. 214
    Taffy on a cross says:

    My favorite yankie tracks for the US, oh yes – real tiny towns, with no space agencies nearby, you posh yankie, the first one with a second-hand dealership, you could say,

    Bicycles on the US plains,

    That’s my US, from Wales/Cynru. Ey, ann Romney/Hiliary Clinton? Two welsh fillies, more or less.

  215. 215
    Taffy on a cross says:

    In that bicycle US vid, that is Kacey wotsername from The Big Bang Theory being whipped after a few seconds in a field – honest,

    mmmmm, nebraska…

  216. 216
    Taffy on a cross says:

    oops, Kaley even, culc-cucl-culc, yes Kaley wotsername…

  217. 217
    Taffy on a cross says:

    ok, someone elses turn now, it is morning after all, unless you went to a xmas doo last night, and made an arse of yourself, and are still cringing, head in hands, when you stuck your tongue down the bosses wife, ladies – and same the other way around for the fellas.

  218. 218
    Anonymous says:

    You obviously haven’t twigged that it’s the Zi onanists who are stirring shlt between the Muslims and us. Without Ir seal and the ZioLoons we wouldn’t be attacking Muslim countries.

  219. 219
    Anonymous says:

    Sod it, I’m bored – some more Oz, two from Melbourne, first Parralox again, closely followed by an Oz itie’s Fiat, as you do,

    going for the morning papers, downtown Melbourne,

  220. 220
    Don't cross the Severn Bridge, it gets annoyed says:

    oh shit, from me again.

  221. 221
    Anonymous says:

    Had Amstrad stuck by the original philosphy of locked down office software that worked and was capable of being used by ordinary humans, instead of listening to the geeks I suspect the evolution of the PC would have been very different.

  222. 222
    Damned Impertinent Questions says:

    Away in america, and out of the loop
    Poor piers denies hacking, and swears its the truth
    The cattle are lowing, the dogs in the street
    All suspect that he’s lying through ever clenched teeth

    But now little children, we are near the fact
    For the rozzers are coming, from back to back
    They’ve read Piers’s books , its all white and black
    that terrible knowledge of just how to hack

    Soon lawyers will circle the Mirrors rotting shell
    As on behalf of their clients, they sue it to hell
    And what then will happen to poor piers we say
    Marooned there to suffer until Judgement Day

  223. 223
    Thick head by the looks of it says:

    Nope, still don’t get what you are trying to convey here.

  224. 224
    Political Scientist says:

    The subversion of the philosophy governing politic in the recent past I would argue started in the 1980s, in the UK.

    During the 80s subversion of language and the erosion of morality received a major push. Economics was undermined as a result of deregulation of the financial markets, politics became amoral. Decisions were presented as promoting liberty, when in fact quite the opposite was the case. This is not blaming those in power at the time or criticising the party either, those individuals were true to their beliefs but their judgement was clouded. Greed was part of the cloud, but there were other external influences at work.

    During the 90s, the process was partially reversed in the first half of the decade, but then resumed from ’97. The style of campaign launched in order to force change of government, in particular the ‘cash for questions’ saga heralded the full shift of the left away from liberty. ‘Trust me’ and the immediate further undermining of economics through deregulation, the infamous light touch, made this clear. The rest is relatively well known history, and reflects the style of decision making which results when libertarian values are completely shunned.

    To your point, I agree with the time line broadly. B-Series analysis is crucial, but really one only learns more about the enemy of liberty through this specific analysis rather than liberty itself. More positive is to examine those situations where liberty prevailed.

    From a libertarian point of view, under the currently accepted axioms of legitimacy, the interaction between states cannot be considered.

    eg. The US withdrawal from Bretton Woods and the global transition to floating exchange rates. This had obvious negative consequence for many nation states, and even though this feels anti-libertarian cannot be regarded as such as the model recognizing either legitimacy of the state or private property does not apply.

    In particular, the moral consequence of these actions is irrelevant.

    From this point of view, the aftermath of WWII could be considered, WWII itself can only be judged from the actions of the state domestically. Any war claiming to be of liberation or one promoting liberty as just cause can be regarded as false. Liberty is used as a propaganda unless those prosecuting annexe and establish a libertarian government once hostilities have ceased. Return of sovereignty if the people ask for it apriori allowing them that right, is also required.

    (The only reason for establishing libertarian governance in the liberated country is purely to stay true to the original stated aim of the conflict, important domestically if the decision is truly libertarian)

    Consider Iraq, and one can see where this has been attempted, but has not been fully successful. The UK actions here are conspicuously not libertarian domestically.

    This scaling issue is the reason for drawing attention to the legitimacy axiom. In doing this there is a contradiction: It will not be truly applicable to those who expressly reject it. From my point of view, so long as false wars are not fought in it’s name and appropriate measures are taken to defend against those who attack the ideal, it should be possible.

  225. 225
    He who no longer posts says:

    I have seen this but am unable to respond immediately due to some unconnected problems I have to deal with. You may have slightly misinterpreted some of what I said, possibly due to a lack of clarity on my part. So I will pick this up on another page when I have more time and I see you posting. Otherwise, I am on the SC WordPress site if you have any difficulty with the auto-m0der@tion, as appears is the case further down. It has been, certainly for me, a very interesting discussion so far but we may be testing the limits of our host who likes snappy comment!


Media Reader

Newspapers No Longer Willing to Toe Party Line | Roy Greenslade
London Live to Cut 20 Staff to Buy in More Content | Press Gazette
Telegraph Revealed Auschwitz 3 Years Before Liberation | Telegraph
Mirror Hacking: 50 Legal Action Claims | Press Gazette
45 Mirror Group Stories Linked to Phone-Hacking | Press Gazette
We Must Not Call Charlie Hebdo Killers ‘terrorists’ | Telegraph
Page 3 and the Art of the Self-Pity Statement | Guardian
Here is What a 7 Way Debate Sounds Like | BBC
Poll: Sun Readers Want Page 3 to Stay | Business Insider
The Sun: An Apology | Press Gazette
More Women Prosecuted For Telly Tax | Mail


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Boris on British Jihadis. Apparently based on MI5 intel:

“If you look at all the psychological profiling about bombers, they typically will look at porn. They are literally w***ers. Severe onanists. They are tortured. They will be very badly adjusted in their relations with women, and that is a symptom of their feeling of being failures and that the world is against them. They are not making it with girls, and so they turn to other forms of spiritual comfort — which of course is no comfort.”


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