January 24th, 2012

A Taxing Question for Labour

The fact that polling shows that 69% of voters support the benefit cap, leaves Guido wondering about the other 31%. If taxpayers knew how much they were personally contributing to these handouts, you would imagine that 31% figure would be a lot lower. Enter backbench Tory MP Ben Gummer, whose plan to print a break down of taxes on a statement sent to every taxpayer, every year, has got a lot of attention this morning. The Sun are liking it and the Telegraph claim:

“If you were to discover, for instance, that £4,000 of the £10,000 you have paid in tax and NICs for the year went on welfare, it might put the argument over capping benefits into a different context.”

A sample PDF of the document is here and apparently the Treasury are listening. There is a 10 Minute Rule Bill issue tomorrow, and Guido is scratching his head to see how the Labour can justifiably oppose the idea. Any additional cost would be minimal given that statements, minus the breakdown, are already sent out. Hard to argue that people should be kept in the dark about their own money…


  1. 1
    jgm2 says:

    Excellent idea. And while they’re at it petrol stations should be allowed to sell petrol at 50p per litre. PLUS TAX.

    Just so that folk know where their money is going.

  2. 2
    I meet a socailist once and the cunt nicked my wallet. says:

    The left are never right, and if they are it is via a fluke.

    Why should i subsidise a jeremy kyle lifesyle for the lazy Hunts that have no intention of doing anything worthwile.

  3. 3
    tommy5dollar says:

    I’ve been arguing for an end of year statement for years! Should also try and inform people how much benefits they’re claiming so someone doesn’t get indignant about the £5k taxes they pay when they also get £6k benefits…

  4. 4
    Sophie says:

    Are we absolutely sure that Dave & George want the British taxpayer to know how much is handed over to the EU by each individual taxpayer?

    I somehow doubt it.

    Vote UKIP.

  5. 5
    Anonymous says:

    Maybe the 31% are those who are getting over 25k already!

  6. 6
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    During the 13 years they were in power, Labour not only kept us in the dark about our own money, they also introduced 300 odd stealth taxes while they were at it.

    Most of the general public have absolutely no idea where their taxes go and yet we still cough up without question.

    We get what we deserve.

  7. 7
    A Droyd says:

    Presumably the other 31% are well below the benefit cap, so they don’t care.

  8. 8
    Ah! Monika says:

    Why haven’t the taxpayers alliance suggested this?

  9. 9
    Put Housing Benefit Claimants into Caravans says:

    Labour can’t oppose taxing everyone to the hilt it’s what they do. Look at all the revolting stealth taxes introduced by that excuse for a human being, Brown. The benefit cap should be £12K and if the recipient is not a pensioner or disabled then this should be a loan!

  10. 10
    BBC News Editor says:

    We will not be covering this silly story.

  11. 11
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    Why should the lazy buggers find work when they can get more money sitting on their arses indoors?

  12. 12
    Anonymouse says:

    My local council includes a breakdown with my council tax

  13. 13
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    They’re probably still picking their way through it.

  14. 14
    Cynical-old-bag says:


  15. 15
    Put Housing Benefit Claimants into Caravans says:

    Or they work for the State, public sector parasites such as pilgrims!

  16. 16
    SpAd says:

    Could be extended to all products, particularly ones that are highly taxed. 20 cigarettes £2.00 PLUS VAT & TAX. Bottle of wine £1.80 PLUS VAT & TAX

    There’d be riots within weeks :-)

  17. 17
    I don't need no doctor says:

    Pilgrim funding should be redirected to feed the starving children of the UK. Would the parents of starving children in the UK please notify their MP immediately.
    Starving children in the UK should all go, without delay, to one of the restaurants in parliament.
    Would the BBC show us a starving child in the UK, and explain why that child is starving.

  18. 18
    Mike Lewis says:

    Gummer is a twat,just like his dad:and STOP calling benefits ‘handouts’ when I lost a job a few years back, I received unemployment benefit which I had PAID for with Tax and National fucking Insurance contributions.
    We are in real danger of walking into a fascist state where all unemployed people seem to be regarded as scum and a fair target for idle little toffs like Gummer who have never done a day’s work in their useless lives.

  19. 19
    Billy Blofeld says:

    Labour won’t like this………….

    It is no doubt “savage transparency, which will hit children and women the hardest”

  20. 20
    mitch says:

    What a brilliant idea .

  21. 21
    My other fag's a Winston says:

    Ditto, snouts.

  22. 22
    Rage Against the Political Elite says:

    TAX TAX TAX. Create Jobs, Micky mouse Jobs at Disney land. Wake up Politico’s this is a real economy not the corner shop Disney Cartoon world that you all live in. Get the STATE Tax Boot of Businesses and the Publics pocket paying for your Phoney State sponsored War mongering. Phoney Drug War keeping a load of coppers in a job. Phoney Afghanistan War Protecting the farmers growing Heroin from the Taliban vow to destroy the Crop.
    Wake up people its a massive Ponzi scheme and its not Working.

  23. 23
    Steve says:

    Why stop there? Let’s add in benefits received to the same statement.

    Benefits received
    Housing benefit £18,630
    Child benefit £2,449
    Working tax credit £1,920
    Total benefits: £22,999

    Tax paid: Hee-haw

  24. 24
    Put Housing Benefit Claimants into Caravans says:

    The BBC are a classic example of public sector parasites, they should all be categorised as BBC Pilgrims.

  25. 25
    DB says:

    I strongly suspect that if HMRC doesn’t do this, then some enterprising company will make a killing doing it online or via a mobile app.

    Would be a lot more embarassing if the answer came from tax.google.com or similar….

  26. 26
    Tessa Tickles says:

    “if the recipient is not a pensioner or disabled then this should be a loan!”

    If the claimant is not a pensioner or disabled, they should have made their own provision for unemployment insurance, privately. They can pay for this with the money they won’t be paying in taxes to support able-bodied scroungers.

  27. 27
    jgm2 says:

    There is a very real problem with this approach however.

    If people were given true annual statements to reflect their cost to the state as well as their contribution in terms of tax then we would find that a lot of folk on 30K and 40K were net parasites.

    State school places cost of the order of 6 or 7K per year. A couple of kids and you’ve got to be paying an awful lot of tax before you’re in credit.

    The problem we have at present is that 31% of folk – the ones who are in favour of endless handouts know that they, personally, are already benefitting from tax-payer largesse. An even bigger problem would be if folk who, at present, only think they’re net producers discover that they too are tax predators. And decide that since they’re doing alright out of this tax gig it wouldn’t hurt to tax ‘richer’ people even more. So that they could have more free stuff.

    There’s a reason low-paid workers pay NI and tax. It’s so they think they’re contributing and don’t develop the same mind-set as the 31%.

    It’s the same reason the tax-free income limit isn’t set a lot higher.

  28. 28
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    £26,000 is still an awful lot of money (per annum) and if the recipients do not pay rent or rates, this is a lot more than most working families have to survive on.

    Perhaps they should look at it again.

  29. 29
    Ah! Monika says:

    Ideas of the decade. Why didn’t I think of this

  30. 30
    I don't need no doctor says:

    Remember tattoos, piercings, booze and fags all come before feeding your kids decent food.

  31. 31
    Universal Hiss says:

    What is stunning on that list is the size of the NHS.

    We seem to be a very sick nation in more ways than one.

  32. 32
    Grim says:

    Labour will use the same argument that the Judiciary uses on Jurors:
    Any information other than that presented to the juror must not be used to determine the outcome of a trial/election. You vill be imprisoned if you try and find out the actual facts.

  33. 33
    Fish says:

    ML what are you doing on this site at 11:23 am? You should be looking for work

  34. 34
    AnonTaxPayer says:

    The example gave £1 to the EU. It’s already bulls**t and it’s only an example! Great idea, but only if it gives real figures – perhaps produced by an independent body, this would give it more clout aswell.

  35. 35
    Kim Jong Un says:

    A genius among geniuses came up with this wheeze.

  36. 36
    jgm2 says:

    Not forgetting the annual cost to educate/jail/remand for their kids. Plus the annual cost of their share of the NHS, roads, defence etc etc. A kind of individual cost of insurance statement.

  37. 37
    Whisper Louise says:

    Excellent Idea. Councils have been doing it for years.

  38. 38
    Ah! Monika says:


  39. 39
    Ah! Monika says:

    But AFTER the 50″ Samsung

  40. 40
    Tory, Lib and Lab, keeping the propertyless in their place says:

    I don’t support the cap. In fact I don’t support benefits. Benefits are about creating a lumpen, propertyless caste, and keeping them in place. Meanwhile capital and ‘mobile’, ‘flexible’ labour from overseas can be moved arpund without limit or question.

    I want the table, not the crumbs from the table.

    Vote Labour for crumbs.

  41. 41
    Simon says:

    But why does it have to be an act of Parliament? Can’t HMRC just do it anyway?

  42. 42
    Put Housing Benefit Claimants into Caravans says:

    I was also put out of work a few years ago but I didn’t sponge on the state as I’d saved for this contingency. This is why benefits should be converted into loans to encourage self sufficiency.

  43. 43
    Tessa Tickles says:

    Unless I missed it, it’s interesting the “EU membership fee” isn’t on the pdf of the proposed annual statement.

    I guess it would be about the same as what Dave wasted on foreign aid, which is shown as £58. To which we’d have to add the sums for all the money Dave wasted on euro bailouts.

  44. 44
    David Blunkett says:

    I hope they belong to the RAC.

  45. 45
    Anonymous says:

    It seems that the fact that child obesity is one of the biggest health problems the UK faces, is an idea that lefties just can’t seem to grasp.

  46. 46
    Anonymous says:

    I work for the NHS, and it’s mostly the same old ‘service users’ you see day after day.

  47. 47
    The BBC says:

    “explain why that child is starving.”


  48. 48
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    …and a car!

  49. 49
    A. Bigot says:

    Guido – could you or TG start a campaign to get revenue and the Carbon scam tax marked up on all our car / van / lorry fuel bills?

    It would be a start.

  50. 50
    Virus says:

    This idea needs to go viral ( whatever that means )

  51. 51
    Rage Against the Political Elite says:

    What really should happen is the amount of TAX collected on each product you purchase. Fuel Tax, Travel Tax, Energy Tax, all the hidden taxes that the economic TAX collecting terrorists have put on products. ie cigarettes. alcohol, petrol, Then the added VAT of 20%. No wonder these Scamsters have bankrupt the country. THEY HAVE TOOK ALL OF THE MONEY.

  52. 52
    yeah, right.. says:

    It is indeed an excellent idea. From a politician, you say? Crikey.

  53. 53
    AnonTaxPayer says:

    Good point!

  54. 54
    Cruel and Unusual TREATMENTS (for a change) says:

    I could help you there.

  55. 55
    Put Housing Benefit Claimants into Caravans says:

    £26,00 is far too much and probably equates to a commuting wage with childcare of something like £60,000. The world must be laughing at us and queing at the borders to get in!

  56. 56
    greed says:

    1 in 3 in west Belfast is on DLA. What possible explanation is there to that other than they are a bunch of thieving parasites

  57. 57
    Nostradamus says:

    Cap it at £15k. Then halve it after six months if they have not found gainful employment. Then halve it again if they’re still malingering. Then the workhouse. Then prison. That would certainly focus the mind.

  58. 58
    Darran says:

    Of course, of the proportion paying taxes and being net contributors … how many are employed by the state and therefore dependent on taxpayers money for their “contributions” to the tax coffers? There is a very small pool of people in this country, relatively, who are actually net payers.

  59. 59
    No mean Feeder says:

    No bleeding fear mate – decent food is chips innit, nowotoimeen?

    They can find their own

  60. 60
    jgm2 says:

    Glasgow is the same.

    The WHO should be informed and the whole fucking place quarantined. Imagine if that plague were to spread into the general population?

  61. 61
    John of Hull says:

    I can’t stand by and see fat bastards starving to death in Britain.
    Something must be done.
    Pass us a pie, love, while I think what needs to be done.

  62. 62
    Selohesra says:

    When people see how much goes on interest justr servicing the debt they might become more focused on gertting some real cuts in spending and keeping our AAA rating

  63. 63
    A Divvy and Equal Titty Ofsah also Include at a Town Hall near you says:

    Oh you are so right!

    Me and all my colleagues in Social Work encourage it -

  64. 64
    yeah, right.. says:

    And yet our doctors are the highest paid in Europe higher even than Germany whose health outcomes* are considerably better than ours. And the ungrateful quacks have the temerity to threaten to go on strike.

    *I realise that, ultimately, everyone has a similar health outcome, or, to use a medical term, death, but you know what I mean.

  65. 65
    jgm2 says:

    They’re the ones who work in the public sector.

  66. 66
    DANGER says:

    The postcode on the PDF is RD2 3PO. Written by a Star Wars fan?

  67. 67
    Little Black Sambo says:

    One heading on the form is “Pensions (incl. public sector pensions).
    What other pensions are our taxes paying for?

  68. 68
    Wife of Bath says:

    Lets face it. We don’t need all these people.

    The Saudis have shown that you can import workers when they want them, and chuck them away when they don’t need them any more.

    They have even outsourced their military.

    The Chinese would do it all for us for free – might even pay us for the privilege!

  69. 69
    The Iron Chancellor says:

    I wish you stop giving me such a hard time, building a client state doesnt come cheap !

  70. 70
    jgm2 says:

    I’m sure you can get bottles of wine in Europe for about 50p a litre. Likewise smokes are about 50p a packet before tax.

  71. 71
    Gordon Brown MP says:

    I was right to spray the good times surplus up the wall of the feckless and the work-shy. Who else would vote for us?

  72. 72
    Carbon tax scam hater says:

    And the carbon / windfarm tax? C’mon!!

  73. 73
    Viral sassoon says:

    As in the Gordon Brown expenses video where he is jerking about like a spazz

  74. 74
    Nonanimouse says:

    It’s hard to see how anyone could argue that this shouldn’t be done!

    We live in an information age and tax is the largest single expense for most people most years. The only argument for not providing it is the cost but since it’s only a case of multiplying your tax paid (which they already tell you) by a certain % each time, the additional cost of producing this breakdown can’t be much greater than the cost of the paper.

    While they’re at it, an estimate of what you have spent in “indirect” taxes (based upon your income) and where that has gone would not be a bad additional column. Obviously that won’t be entirely accurate but better than nothing.

  75. 75
    Gordon Brown also says:

    Nurse! – can you come and play with my botty?

  76. 76
    Put Housing Benefit Claimants into Caravans says:

    Agreed, I would like to know how much of my tax goes to paying for benefit sponging, Labour voting wasters.

  77. 77
    Bigotry count already this morning +46 says:

    Glasgow consistently scores better on quality of life surveys than many inglish cities but hey as we say don’t let the truth get in the way of your pig ignorant blinkered bigotry

  78. 78
    Tony Eden of Eton says:

    It seems clear to me that our 13 overseas dependent territories are not paying nearly enough to us for their defence.

    There should be a surcharge of at least £40 per person per head for those living off the mainland.

    We should also be negotiating something for the military services we have provided free of charge to the Libyans Iraqis and Afghans.

  79. 79
    Blowhard watch says:

    jgm2 do you actually do any work yourself as you seem to spend all your time on here !

  80. 80
    Marcel says:

    I live in France and am a taxpayer. Each year I receive a breakdown of the government’s expenditure with my tax demand.

    Seems a very sensible thing to do…

  81. 81
    yeah, right.. says:

    Probably Cromwell’s fault.

  82. 82
    Tessa Tickles says:

    I used to live near an Asda, the supermarket of choice for benefit-claiming chavs. The booze aisle was always littered with discarded fruit, veg, nappies etc, as the horrified chavs realised they couldn’t afford these ‘non-essential’ items *and* bottles of White Lightning.

  83. 83
    jgm2 says:

    I practice what I preach.

    Working in the UK is a mugs game.

  84. 84
    yeah, right.. says:

    On what measure? Cheaper crack?

  85. 85
    Tessa Tickles says:

    Unless I’m mistaken, jgm2 is actually Scottish.

  86. 86
    Fish says:

    Another Gordon Brown / Labour legacy.

    Benefits costs to the UK are now running at around £190bn.

    Brown created a client state on the back of the UKs working people – spending money that he didn’t have , he robbed our pensions and took the country into defecit as early as 2004 – long before the banking crisis – and in doing so was directly responsible for the economic crisis that we have now. His pre-election, borrowing led mini boom was unsustanable and in fact only made matters worse. Growth was always going to be seriously impeded with such a defecit / debt base.

    In 2009 benefits paid out exceeded income tax receipts by about £15bn. Our debt is now over £1tn for the first time. It will take years to sort out.

  87. 87
    Put Housing Benefit Claimants into Caravans says:

    The tax take is far worse than anyone imagines as everything you buy has a tax element. Look at your water bill for example, this will have an element of VAT, business rates, employee taxes, fuel taxes and so on. If this were calcultaed to the nth degree then virtually all bills would be tax!

  88. 88
    smoggie says:

    You get precise breakdowns of where your council tax is going so why not for you income tax?

  89. 89
    Axe The Telly Tax says:

    Put that on electricity/gas bills :-)

  90. 90
    yeah, right.. says:

    Surprising that the Saudi model of governance finds favour on a libertarian blog.

    Still, no subsidised MPs bars in Riyhad. No subsidised MPs either.

  91. 91
    Anonymous says:

    If every one agreed to pay more taxes that would mean me being able to afford Lacoste trainers instead of the cheap Lonsdale ones I have to buy now.

    Polly, can you help me with my crusade here? I know we think very much alike. Perhaps if I were to give you my bank account details you could make voluntary payments to me that would be very much appreciated. Please do get in touch?

    Love those socialists, without them I would have to work, yeh work! can you believe that? Mind you that would put a few Poles out of work wouldn’t it and where would the country be then, they would have to claim benefits? What’s the world coming to ffs?

  92. 92
    stun says:

    Standard state pension + SERPS I’d imagine. The public sector pensions are more like a private pension paid for by the state (i.e. us). I’d like to see the figure broken down TBH,

  93. 93
    Michael of Alverstoke says:

    It is worth looking at some of the maths associated with the £26k cap. To have a take home pay of this amount means that gross salary needs to be £34577. Specifically:

    Gross Pay 100% £34,576.47
    Tax Free Allowances 23% £8,105.00
    Total Taxable 77% £26,471.47
    Tax Paid 15% £5,294.29
    National Insurance 9% £3,282.18
    Total Deductions 25% £8,576.47
    Net Wage 75% £26,000.00

    To achieve this an individual would be in the top 12.5% salaries.

    Of course we are told that this benefit is for the high cost of accomodation. Assuming a generous 50% of an individuals salary is spent of accomodation this is then equivalent to a salary of £78500 and therefore within the top 3% of salaries.

    Has this country gone completely mad?

  94. 94
    Tony Eden of Eton says:

    I think it is a morally strong argument to expect the citizen to pay for state provided services at the point of use.

    Thus for example there should be a fee of say £20 for a visit to your GP plus daily accommodation charges for hospital stays.

    The French raise this type of fee and they are always off sick with the finest health service in the world

    If you should go to Court you should pay the real costs of the service in Court fees. There should be no taxpayer subsidies of you lawyers fees. If you do not want to agree an hourly rate try a no win no fee agreement with that nice Mr Lewis.

  95. 95
    jgm2 says:

    These socialists have a real poverty of ambition.

    Ferraris and Learjets for everybody.

    The ‘rich’ can afford it.

  96. 96
    Mike Lewis says:

    You too knobhead

  97. 97
    I Hate Tesco AND the Pope says:

    You’ll NEVER convince the dinosaurs in the C of E, nor the hard-core lefties who think taxpayers’ money grows on trees and just has to be picked and spent on lesbian tea dances, as happened in the nineties in West Yorkshire. My father in law was a C of E vicar and spent his time asleep in a chair or doing the Times crossword. He was a pleasant enough bloke but never did a day’s work in his entire life and didn’t understand what goes into the running of the country’s infrastructure – much like Milifuck, Ed Bollocks, Harriet Hypocrite, Tony Fucking Benn and the rest.

  98. 98
    brian says:

    Would it show where this money is geographically distributed? Does devolved responsibilities (eg health) only show spending costs in the relevant home country? Would it show how much is given to Scotland in the Barnett Formula?

  99. 99
    smoggie says:

    Compared to Luton, Bradford or Doncaster, aye it would.

  100. 100
    jgm2 says:

    I am not Fucking Scottish. I did however live in Fucking Scotland for six years.

    Fucking awful place full of fucking awful people.

  101. 101
    Sad soul says:

    And the weather forecasters are saying it will snow in hell on Friday!! it won’t happen.

  102. 102
    Ah! Monika says:


    Better to have it included with your P 45, but better than nothing

  103. 103
    Dr longdongle says:

    Well of course it would as they don’t have the stress of working for a living and paying for stuff they cannot afford due to the tax they have to pay to those living a stress free life !

  104. 104
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    I agree. How can the Chancellor not have been aware of this? He was in the job for 10 years plus.

    Still, with no financial qualifications and a History Degree, he was obviously the right man for the job.

  105. 105
    Titford Hat says:

    Quite. We don’t need cannon fodder any more. Nor do we need scrounging layabouts.

  106. 106
    Cynical-old-bag says:


  107. 107
    jgm2 says:

    Glasgow – better quality of life surveys than some English cities?

    Good god. They must be fucking awful cities then.

    I’d have thought one of the key ‘quality of life’ indicators would be – well, how long you’re actually likely to live.


    It seems the folk of Glasgow are judging their ‘quality of life’ by how quickly they can leave the place in a coffin.

  108. 108
    smoggie says:

    Why doesn’t each taxpayer get to “sponsor” a benefit claiming chav. Take a personal interest in his/her development: how many kids they’ve had each tax year; how much booze they’ve sank etc. You could receive regualr reports, by text message of course, and if you don’t like what you hear have the option to reduce payments.

  109. 109
    Trevor from Treherbert says:

    Someone should tell Dave to stop borrowing money and charging me interest on it because I have no money in the first place to pay.

    bit angry with Gideon. Just found out he has lent my money to the Irish at a fixed rate of interest. With the good old British Press off the scent he has now cut the rate they pay me.

  110. 110
    Anonymous coward says:

    There was an interesting “pilgrim” article in the Standard yesterday:


    The comments underneath were very telling…. it was clear that a co-ordinated campaign was set in motion to attack the article (and author) without answering the concerns raised in the article.

    I did try and link my own comment to the Guido article but it was modded out : (

  111. 111
    Coppers says:

    Last night’s Coppers on Channel 4 was very interesting viewing. Police went to the homes of drug addicts and dealers who are on benefits. One man said he spends his benefit money on heroin. Talking about it later, an officer says they deal with a lot of people whose lifestyle is collecting their benefit money in the morning, getting drunk in the afternoon and buying drugs in the evening. He joked to his colleague “If I want a free house, I should become a heroin addict”.

  112. 112
    Rob Roy says:

    I was hoping that such calculations will be unnecessary in the future.

  113. 113
    Titford Hat says:

    You can get a bottle of decent wine for a couple of euros. Ditto 75cl of 7.5% beer.

    Many French people take a container down to the local cave cooperative and get their wine every week for about one euro a litre. At the end of the week they throw away what’s left and get some more.

  114. 114
    Jimmy says:

    Good idea. If people realised how much mass unemployment cost then maybe they wouldn’t vote for it.

  115. 115
    MAD FRANKIE HADDOCK son of COD says:


    Essex police have received the evidence on Huhne

    Gone like the wind ! springs to mind

  116. 116
    FonyBlair says:

    Labour will probably suggest those on benefits don’t pay VAT next!

  117. 117
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    I’ve often wondered why the benefits offices don’t issue food vouchers instead of money.

  118. 118
    Spanner in the works. says:

    All the hidden taxes would have to be taken into consideration, not an easy task as lifestyle is a factor.

  119. 119
    Rob Roy says:

    I blame those beef burghers.

  120. 120
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    My patience would run out after day 1.

  121. 121
    The Bottle Fed Triplet says:

    I’m not bigotted but Glasgow had a very high incidence of heart disease. I worked there for a while and there was a very big campaign to get Glaswegians to stop smoking, drinking and eating the wrong type of food. All the buses had adverts on the side telling you what you could buy after a year if you stopped smoking and saved the money instead. The list included new cars and cruises to the West Indies.

    I regularly dined in a works canteen and if the passive smoking didn’t get you, the lardburger with extra salt and a side order of chips fried in dripping would.

    Ah, happy days

  122. 122
    Caring, sharing, socialism says:

    All a sop to populism. We aren’t elected to do what people want, but to do what is good for them.

    Don’t trouble your little heads with all those nasty numbers.

    Remember, Labour knows best.

  123. 123
    jgm2 says:

    I used to live near Fucking Dunfermline. The local superstore was an ASDA.

    Now I am an ugly bastard. But in ASDA, Dunfermline I’m a fucking Greek God. There must be some kind of uglification ionisation in that horrible green decor.

    The Aldi and even Farmfoods weren’t as populated by utter fucking mutants as ASDA.

  124. 124
    The Impartial observer says:

    “Hard to argue that people should be kept in the dark about their own money…”

    Is it?

    Sorry, I was under the impression that was the entire purpose of government.

  125. 125
    Hang The Bastards says:

    The other 31% are recieving benefits !!!

  126. 126
    Ah! Monika says:

    It’s the Bishops’ job to tell people to pray not prey.

  127. 127
    Universal Hiss says:

    Well if life expectancy is so poor in Glasgow it must save a fortune in pensions & care for the elderly.

    By the way jmg2 I’m one of the fucking awful people who live in Scotland.I live in a rural area & find most natives to be fine,some finer than others.(States the bleedin obvious) I’ve lived here for over 20 years & rather like the place.

  128. 128
    Nonanimouse says:

    What better reason to calculate it?!

    There’s nothing like discovering that you have paid 70% of your income in tax to focus the mind on whether that’s really what you want or not.

    And while we are doing this, we should remove the completely artificial distinction between income tax and NI. It’s clear from this table that what the government spends on social security is many times what it takes in NI, which in any case has no “insurance” component to it – if you are investing my NI to pay for my pension then fine, call it NI. If you are using it as general taxation, call it that. I disagree with the amount either way but I at least have some respect for the honesty of the latter.

  129. 129
    Tony Eden of Eton says:

    I agree.

    The Devil Dodgers are wrong to argue capped state benefits are a danger to young children.

    The real danger to young children is incompetent parents who will spend benefits on themselves ahead of their children.

    Vouchers redeemable against selected items at Tescos is one idea.

    Another is to put the children out of the harm of their parents by placing them in a workhouse equipped with computers and play stations.

    this idea was trialled in the Victorian era and is well worth visiting again today.

  130. 130
    jgm2 says:

    Labour lost.

    Get over it.

  131. 131
    Nonanimouse says:

    I guess this is an argument that providing a breakdown will not ultimately lead to lower taxation, but I still think it’s a good idea.

  132. 132
    Put Housing Benefit Claimants into Caravans says:

    Yes, completely mad, think of all the other costs a worker has to meet, commuting, suits for work, childcare, food out, the true gross pay could well be £60k equivalent!

  133. 133
    Darren says:

    Can’t get crack at Asda.

  134. 134
    Hang The Bastards says:

    I am sick to death of my hard earned cash being wasted on the majority feckless workshy “poor” whose carear goal is to sponge of benefits forever.

    Give them fuck all then they would have to get up and work.

    The feckless girls who spread their legs and produce offspring that they cant afford. Well Tough ! Make an example of them. Teach our kids this is not the right way to get on in life.

    Let the poor be poor. Don’t try to make the twats rich !

  135. 135
    Pundit Too says:

    The DM poll I saw has only 13% against the benefits threshold and the question is biased as to a yes or no answer on its fairness. If the question had then asked if the threshold is too large or too small then at least half of the 13% would state it as too high – according to phone ins on this question until the BBC clamped down on it and monitored the phone calls.
    Another own goal for the House of Lords, LimpDims, Labouring Party, and those accursed lordly priests of a declining religion due to their incompetence.

  136. 136
    Titford Hat says:


  137. 137
    Rob Roy says:

    Too much governance from London.

    Free Scotland now to give us a fighting chance to save ourselves from the slow lingering death that awaits all Glaswegians.

  138. 138
    Universal Hiss says:

    Have you read her utter tripe today?

    It’s amazingly bad even by her lower than whale shit standard.

    Still the Cifers rants are always amusing.

  139. 139
    Nonanimouse says:

    Do you mean p60, or really p45.

    Hopefully I won’t be seeing a p45 for a few years (unless I spend by whole time commenting here of course!).

  140. 140
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    My Father-in -law was a vicar too. But not like yours.

  141. 141
    The Bottle Fed Triplet says:

    Right now, someone in London is phoning someone in Chelmsford and suggesting “insufficient evidence”, “not in the public interest”, “better use of taxpayers money”, “limited resources” etc. etc……………………..

  142. 142
    Anonymous says:

    Well said

  143. 143
    Trevor from Treherbert says:

    I agree with you wholeheartedly.

    The poor will always be with us .

    A complete waste of my money and yours giving them inflation matching benefit rises.

    it does them no good whatsoever and makes the likes of you and me poorer and poorer.

  144. 144
    yeah, right.. says:

    How long will it be before some ambitious policy wonk deep suggests a campaign advocate the Glaswegian lifestyle as the solution to the pensions crisis?

  145. 145
    Grumpy Old Man says:


  146. 146
    Bwana from Clyde says:

    have we to get down on our knees and beg you English to give us our independence.

  147. 147
    Sir Keith Josephs Preserved Head says:

    I really really like this idea…

    HOWEVER… The govt have to tie up a loose end as follows

    How long before a CNDer or Quaker is wanting to withhold the tax paid on defence…?

    How long a pope lover wants to know who much is spent inside the health budget on contraception/abortion and withhold that?

    The list could go on and on and on and (undoubtedly) end up before those legal geniuses in the ECHR

  148. 148
    will says:

    Dont worry George moonbat is suggesting cappin pay at £500,000. This will mean all our premier league and most of the championship go overseas.

    all our top accountant and lawyers will go overseas.

    Since the top 1% pay 25% of taxes this will leave a big hole not to include all those below the limit as they go overseas.

    You can imagine how this will help the country. It would be better to ship overseas the worst feckless 1% of families that would help the country even more as we will save money on welfare etc.

  149. 149
    jgm2 says:

    will mean all our premier league and most of the championship go overseas.

    all our top accountant and lawyers will go overseas.

    That’s the upside but on the down-side a lot of useful people will leave too.

  150. 150
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Not while HAI and neglect are doing the job for thm.e

  151. 151
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Not me, mate. Just remember to take RBS and BOS with you when you go. Oh, and those 2 unwanted aircraft carriers as well.

  152. 152
    I Hate Tesco AND the Pope says:

    So that’s the secret of Anonymous’s non-stop barrage of crap to the blog! Anyone running his own business couldn’t possibly spend hours a day doing what Anonymous does. He “works” for the NHS! Here we have proof, in a microcosm, of why the system’s fucked.

  153. 153
    MAD FRANKIE HADDOCK son of COD says:

    You can almost hear the whirring of the shreaders
    as we speak

  154. 154
    Phildog says:

    the irony is that the bishops once had an interest in going exactly what you propose. How times have changed

  155. 155
    Moscow Mike Handycock (sex Tourist on Taxpayer's money) says:

    Or they are MP’s like me whose seats depend on votes from benefit Scroungers, Students and Immigrants. Without their votes, I would have to get a proper job, something I haven’t done since the age of 21 and something I have no qualifications for. Boaz.

  156. 156
    will says:

    Yes many useful individuals will go overseas, but so will people earniing say £450,000 per annum, Also house prices in london would crash as people on large mortgages would not be able to pay them.

    Also why would a rich non dom come to this country when it could then take his money away from him.

    All the rich people spend money and support the economy. Once the taxpayers who pay 25% of tax go what about the 9% below them who pay about 15%. Then we have a massive tax whole which the rest of us will have to pay.

  157. 157
    Universal Hiss says:

    Be careful what you wish for.

    This will need a brand new department with a minister & an army of civil servants.

  158. 158
    Up sh1t creek says:

    Never mind that, why is Vince on about private sector executive pay when the public sector bosses and senior management pay and perks are running away from reality?

  159. 159
    Woolfie Smith says:

    UK does not have a Disney Land

    still don’t let a few facts stop the glorious revolutionary struggle, komrade

  160. 160
    Woolfie Smith says:

    “What really should happen is …”

    you forgot to add the bit where you tell use what should really happen.

    Did the giro arrive?

  161. 161
    jgm2 says:

    Indeed. What is so scary though is that these people aren’t taking the p155. They really are that fucked up in the head. Even after Labour admitted that the T*ry cuts would not be reversed the dopey c*unts still cannot believe that more money simply cannot be found to pay these parasites indefinitely.

  162. 162
    Highly paid BBC Executive says:

    Shhhh!! Don’t mention the public sector.

  163. 163
    Another Engineer says:

    Depends what you mean by quality of life.

    If you _aren’t_ living in one of the Glasgow hell-holes, but in Kelvinside or similar, then its probably quite a good place to be (as long as you don’t mind the rain).

    There is some culture in there somewhere, and its 30 minutes to escape into the hills.

    Londonistan is much much worse.

    PS So is Doncaster. Allegedly.

  164. 164
    How do I get it? says:

    I’d be more than happy to get £26k without having to go to work. I’d start tomorrow if I could.

  165. 165
    My Vote Never Counts says:

    I’ve been thinking that for a long time..

  166. 166
    PBT (poor bloody taxpayer) says:

    HMRC can’t even get my tax code right

  167. 167
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    +++Prolonged and Enthusiastic Applause+++

  168. 168
    Aethelred says:

    Does it also tell you by how much the UK is subsidising your food & wine?

  169. 169
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    So is most of England

  170. 170
    Rage Against the Political Elite says:

    Oh! I forgot the State have borrowed a Trillion, but really 4 to prop up the corrupted economic system that is clearly not working.
    Well done What else can the government Break? Everything they touch turns too sh-t. Obviously that education education education ain’t worked ha ha. Educated them all to be useless parts, getting jobs in the Public sector paying themselves a fortune for doing nothing. We don’t need the LSE to explain how that is not going to work

  171. 171
    Tessa Tickles says:

    Ditto my old local Asda.

    I blame Asda’s own-brand goods, which seem to account for about 2/3rds of their stock. They’re pretty disgusting (although the patés were OK).

  172. 172
    David B says:

    Why would Labour oppose this, simple. They don’t believe it is our money, they think it is theirs and as a result they do not have to account for it.

  173. 173
    Walt says:

    H o C ?

  174. 174
    Fred Flintstone says:

    Anyone seen Dennis Skinner?

  175. 175
    The General Public says:

    At the end of the week they throw away what’s left

    They do WHAT? :-(

  176. 176
    MT Pockets says:

    And the BBC’s so-called “talent”.

  177. 177
    Anonymous says:

    Nothing about your mates in banking and finance then?

    Who woulda thought?

  178. 178
    KP says:

    I wonder, I wonder, I wonder…how much money would be raised if religious institutions weren’t immune from taxation? Let the bishops put *their* money where their mouths are, not ours.

    No representation without taxation?

  179. 179
    Anonymous says:

    Please don’t.

    The greater the number of alienated, the more of your type leave us after regime change.

  180. 180
    Uncapped Claimant says:

    Heigh-ho. It’s not off to work I go.

  181. 181
    MT Pockets says:

    Should include contributions to EU, IMF, Northern Rock, Lloyd-TSB, RBS and the rest of the moneypit black holes. I never get invited to stakeholder AGMs for some reason.

    Can someone tell me why I have paid forf banking adverts all over the TV, radio and press? Aren’t they all technically skint?

  182. 182
    George Brown says:

    You seem to forget that housing benefit doesn’t go to the claimant, it goes to the landlord. Cut the rents and the amount of benefit goes down – simple really, isn’t it?

  183. 183
    The General Public says:

    Last year I heard a government spokesman being interviewed about the poor upkeep of UK roads, and he was challenged about the allocation of revenue from the Road Fund Licence.

    His response was to mock the interviewer’s naive assumption that just because every motorist in the country is forced to buy something called a ‘Road Fund Licence’ that the money would might specifically be used for something that would benefit motorists.

  184. 184
    Ah! Monika says:


  185. 185
    Expat enjoying life says:

    “Life style” did not exist until about 10 years ago. Everybody just got on with living and making the best of things.

  186. 186
    Mike Rouse says:

    I’ve long held the idea that every person should be asked to submit a self-assessment return every year – as required for a lot of people anyway. By making everybody submit a return it would not take long for attitudes towards taxation to change. You never really appreciate how much you’re losing until you have to Self Assess.

  187. 187
    A mafmatishun wot can count says:

    Nope, nor mine. I queried their figures and got a 900 quid annual pay rise as a result. Must all have been taught sums by Jack Straw.

  188. 188
    The Golem says:


  189. 189
    Tra Li says:


  190. 190
    Ivor Biggan says:

    This is fantastic- don’t know Ben Gummer, but by gum Ben this idea is a corker.
    You deserve a bing bong big glittery gong, and I look forward to effing and jeffing at my tax breakdown when it arrives – it will do my bloody pressure some good.

    many thanks

    Ivor Biggan

  191. 191
    Bob Diamond Geezer says:

    OK before all you right wing Pay As You Go types get over excited about paying £20 for a GP visit and so on think again a GP visit would be £50 minimum (about £10 per minute). When you look at the tax break down accompanying the blog entry the £1,000 for the NHS is incredibly good value. Agreed though welfare costs need to come down.

  192. 192
    Bob Diamond Geezer says:

    You mean those ones in which all the bank staff seem to be about 22 and are having a laugh whilst making a banking add…..

  193. 193
    Bob Diamond Geezer says:

    Sounds like a Philip Larkin poem

    The feckless girls who spread their legs
    and produce offspring that they cant afford
    the rent money all spent on drink and fags
    none left for the landlord
    etc etc

  194. 194
    Ivor Biggan says:

    BBC – grim pils. I repeat BBC grimpils, and can I have my licence fee back – you can use last years again. I repeat – can I have my licence fee back.
    Ivor Biggan

  195. 195
    Ivor Biggan says:

    OOOH Dear! Dunfermline? and your ugly? ooooh
    Well never mind – ohh your a greek god now!!
    Pop round and see me sometime
    Ivor Biggan

  196. 196
    George Lees says:

    The other 30% are the welfare recipients you loon.

  197. 197
    Phil from the Wrekenton Severn Stars says:

    Ah so you have been to Hull too.

  198. 198
    Crash says:

    including public sector pensions is entirely dishonest. The baby boomers taking out more than they put in via the state pension account for a huge chunk of the taxes of people who can’t expect the same benefit on retirement.

    The state pension must be put separately and it’s obvious that lumping public sector workers and state pensions together is to hide the fact that the tory voting old wrinklies eat loads of our hard earned cash.

  199. 199
    Archie says:

    You would think it was a mere pittance or starvation wages the way those @rseholes at al-Jabeeba are spinning it

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