July 31st, 2011

Popular Support for the Restore Justice Campaign

Pollster Anthony Wells has reviewed the polling evidence, all of which shows popular support for the death penalty everywhere in Britain, except in parliament.

A lot of readers are asking why the e-petition specifies child killers and cop killers. The reasons are two-fold, in the case of child killers some crimes are so abhorrent that society demands more than protection, it wants retribution. Myra Hindley and Ian Brady’s 13 minute tape of them sexually torturing 10 year-old Lesley Ann Downey, with the child’s endless screams and pleas for her mother, truly shocked a nation. Hindley and Brady tortured and killed five children for sexual kicks. Even after half-a-century of pampered imprisonment they proved beyond rehabilitation. In cases like theirs, where there is no doubt of guilt and after due process of the law, justice should not prevent retribution. Retribution is missing from the criminal justice system.

The Soham murderer, Ian Huntley and Milly Dowler’s killer Levi Bellfield, a serial killer, would both under this proposed legislation pay for their crimes with their own life. That is the wish of many victim’s families, in the words of Gemma Dowler they want “a life for a life”. So do the public…

When the public are asked about the death penalty the results have consistently shown a majority in favour, when they are asked specifically about child killers, the numbers change dramatically with a range of polls showing two-thirds to three-quarters in in favour. On this issue there is definitely a clear regressive majority in Britain.

It is a similar picture for cop killers, the public understands that the police put themselves in harm’s way on their behalf every day. If a criminal in the course of committing a crime kills a police officer it is invariably deliberate. Having the death penalty for cop killers will make criminals fear the consequences and give extra legislative protection to the police beyond a stab vest. Once again the public shows a two-thirds majority in favour of the death penalty for cop killers. Not because their lives are worth more than ours, it is because the police daily risk their lives to protect our lives.

The third common objection is that Britain is bound by treaties that prevent us implementing the death penalty. Some claim that the ECHR prevents us, actually the Covenant itself specifically exempts “a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law”, it is later protocols which were added on that prohibit the death penalty. The protocols can be of course de-ratified or Britain can withdraw from the ECHR. The e-petition calls on the Ministry of Justice to first review international commitments and prepare a legislative escape path before bringing forward substantive legislation. This is what a free and sovereign nation of laws does if parliament wishes to change course. 

The “Restore Justice” campaign website will be up and running by the end of the week, thousands have registered to support the campaign already. You can too, here.


514 Comments

  1. 1
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    I wish you luck Guido even tho i disagree.

    • 7
      Gadaffi is Winning says:

      The political class will never allow this.

      • 138
        Sharia Law coming to UK says:

        And do you know why? Because the Political Class are the only ones privy too the Facts. The Rest of the population have been Brain washed by News International. Guido is lining this country up for a transition to Islamic laws. Cut a few hands off while we are at it eh? Or lets Stone a few Puff’s Where is it going to End

        • 141
          Sharia Law coming to UK says:

          Is Pretty Patel an Islamic Law, Sleeper Cell Gearing, the country up for a bit of State Killing.

          • Anonymous says:

            Ridiculous comment.

            I hope Guido is looking into the possibility of getting some academics on-board for this campaign, so that it doesn’t just look like a cheap populist stunt. Prof. David Oderberg at the University of Reading would be a good place to start.

          • 13eastie says:

            Time and again, Guido fails to give us any clue as to how it would actually benefit our country were our elected representatives to vote to empower the state to kill us.

            Would we be happier as a nation?
            Would we be safer as a nation?
            Would we be richer as a nation?
            Would we hold more moral high ground as a nation?

            Why can’t Guido produce any argument that produces an affirmative response to any of the above? Surely good legislation would promise one or more?

            Bleating on about how popular hanging might be gives us no idea as to its intrinsic value or its moral virtue at a national level.

            More Brits bought Jedward tickets last year than went to see Le nozze di Figaro. Should we thus conclude that legislators ought, on our behalf, to favour Simon Cowell over Mozart? Balls!

            Guido seems also to have forgotten that the “bread and circuses” argument is a double-edged sword: public revulsion fuelled abolition.

            Derek Bentley’s joy at being pardoned for his supposed role in a “cop-killing” was surely not diminished in any way by the fact that it came 45 years after he had already been hanged?

          • gweedo says:

            How about a “life” sentence being that – the multiple murderer body is then available for donor operations ….. they survive only as long as needed to find a match ……

            Huntley has 25 years in jail – to what purpose – is he a deterant… ?

            Yet he could supply 2 eyes, 1 heart, 2 kidneys, etc etc etc and could extend the lives of over 20 people….

            Now that would improve society….

            We all have a right to life – but those that violate that right should not be able to hide behind it…..

            Life imprisonment – should be until a donor found , could be days or months – not years, or quarter of a century.

          • awardwinningscoop says:

            I reckon brown people will get murdered by the state a lot more often than non-brown people.

            There will be sudden increase in brown persons charged with peado-crimes

            (Someone will now agree with this comment in a non-ironic way, along the lines of “yes that’s because brown people are peados like mohammed was”)

          • Only me says:

            No No No!

            You are just stepping into Murdoch’s shoes.
            This campaign is worthy of the News of the World.
            It is a distraction. Keep your eye on the ball chaps.

            As for me, I do not want anybody’s blood on my hands.
            If we have the means to secure wrongdoers in a humane way – then lets do it.

            Call me a wet, but ultimately, I am just striving to be a civilised human being.

        • 144
          Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

          I agree with your post.

          What happens to rapists? do they get raped as punishment?

          This is justice not vengnece!

          • wiggins says:

            They get to share a cell with Bubba.

          • Honest View says:

            I am neither a cop nor a child and I would like to feel that my life is worth the same as theirs. Justice means punishment, not a gloating emotional indulgence in vengeance. Vindicta mihi, sayeth the Lord.
            By all means bring back the death penalty for deliberate murderers, but make sure that it is motivated by justice and covers all citizens.

          • Four-eyed English Genius says:

            If not, they should!

          • socistudent21 says:

            Vengence is true justice. Especially where there is substantial evidence and proof that the person responsible for the crimes actually did the deed.

            In cases such as Sutcliffe, Huntley and Brady et al Allowing the wronged families to seek vengece, is allowing them TRUE justice.

        • 192
          Your point is ? says:

          #128 thats more like it a post that doesnt rely on wild exaggeration and some mad conspiracy nonsense. Keep up the good work.

        • 238
          Smell the teabags says:

          Sharia law?? In 1940 when the Spitfires were defending Britain it was a place where it was illegal to be openly homosexual, the birch was in place for muggers etc, murderers were hung, there was stricy blasphemy laws and the population was 99.9% white British and they had an empire where natives couldn’t vote. Anyone who would approve of any of the above today is now called a NAZI or an ISLAMIC EXTREMIST. I think a lot of people today are CLUELESS today about the Britain of our grandparents generation. In the 1930s there was 300, YES 300 burgularies per year NATIONWIDE.

      • 457
        Andy Hayman. says:

        …my gawd!! Dont believe what you are saying, you can trust us to catch em…

    • 10
      Anonymous says:

      Hindley’s dead.

      • 25
        PD77 says:

        True but her partner in crime isn’t!

        • 116
          PD77 says:

          Really? Thumbed down for that?

        • 464
          Peter expat says:

          And I’m told by someone that works in Ashworth that they never turn their back on him. He is regarded as extremely dangerous.

          You can certainly make a case for topping someone like him. The difficulty with anything like this, as with euthanasia, is not the end of the spectrum obvious cases, but the borderline cases in the middle, ones with possible element of doubt.

          On balance, capital punishment is not a good idea.

          • Northern Convert says:

            My view is we should still stick with the prison system, but they should be offerd no protection whatsoever once inside. The inmates should be allowed to sort things and bring about their own justice. This would deter people from going inside, whilst allowing the law to carry on unchanged.

      • 38
        Agreed says:

        She should have died in 1966 at the end of a rope along with Brady !

        • 51
          Hang 'em High (Own piano wire supplied) says:

          I agree!

          • misterned says:

            I agree, as well.

            We need to get out of the EU, out of the ECHR (which I know are two seperate things) and we need to get control of our country again and put in place sensible, common sense policies. Not one murderer who has been put to death has ever gone on to kill again.

        • 193
          Your point is ? says:

          I take it the thumbs down are from folk who think their trial should have been expadited so they could have been Hung in 1965 ?

          • MrAngry61 says:

            The government’s position re Brady is bizarre – he wants to die & refuses food. Screws (or their medical equivalent) strap him into a chair & force feed him daily.

            The reason must be that both Brady & the Prison Service view his continued existence as greater punishment than expediting his death.

          • Pedant #43 says:

            ‘Hanged’ dear boy, – ‘ HANGED’ as in DRAWN and QUARTERED!

      • 320

        >>>Hindley’s dead.

        Is she fuck.

        Dies just after the ECHR said Blunkett had to let her go. Convenient.

    • 39
      Rog says:

      Interesting post clearly showing that the death penalty DOES serve as a deterrent.

      http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2006/12/ot-saddam-execution.html

      And I particularly liked the quote,

      “I still haven’t heard the compelling argument as to why an act of commission- executing killers- is morally inferior to an act of omission- not killing them and simply accepting a tripling in the number of homicide victims (cf the debate over compulsory vaccination).”

      • 67
        Anonymous says:

        Excellent point. the thing that the handwringers cant accept is that in this reality people are going to die one way or another. We have the choice as to whether we take the life of the Murderers and reduce the amount of innocent victims markedly or whether we continue to create an environment where the murders take the lives of innocents by the ton. its a no brainer. Im sorry but a nice Disney type world isnt an option.

        • 106
          Anonymous says:

          the question you moron is that we dont and will never have a justice system that can categorically without exception prove that those found guilty especially of murder are actually guilty. You fail to pick up those that were found guilty within the UK justice system only to be found innocent 10-15 yrs later.

          If you vote for the death penalty, for someone who its turns is actually innocent should you yourself be found guitly of murder or incitement to murder?

          Thank god your not in charge.

          • Rog says:

            You’re kidding, right?

            You’re actually saying that there is never a case where guilt is proven 100% without doubt?

            You are quite happy that a great many people are murdered every year, just so your conscience can be at ease?

            That’s OK then.

          • Anonymous says:

            Yep the hundreds of victims dont matter do they. He has the cheek to call those who disagree with him morons. His faux morality makes me wretch.

          • Sharia Law coming to UK says:

            You are all missing the Point. This is the States attempt to Kill a few people to take the spot light of their corrupted institutions, as well as laying the ground for the Sharia Law State that will come in the next decade or so.

          • you can't beat a good hanging...when i were a lad we used to make a day of it... says:

            yurk..chunder …yerk…I’m still wretching but have lost track of this fucking argument already..god help us after months of this stuff…they won’t need to hang us we’ll be volunteering for the chop.

        • 121
          Mr Weiner says:

          Oh right so locking Brady up forever rather than killing him creates an environment for more murders does it. All the most abhorrent killers already have whole life sentences. Except of course the Bulger killers who went on to kill hundreds more children and don’t deserve rehabilitation even though if they’d been six months younger they wouldn’t have stood trial at all.

          • Rog says:

            No, they didn’t deserve “rehab” (as if you can mend someone so fundamentally fucked in the head).

            They should have been executed for what they did to that toddler.

            Just because justice makes you uncomfortable, doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

          • The plain truth says:

            The stats speak for themselves , murders have increased many fold since abolition. Thats what is meant by an environment for more murders.

          • misterned says:

            I have always been in favour of multiple death penalties.

            Clinically kill them, resuscitate them and then keep doing that over and over until they are properly rehabilitated or properly dead.

          • Bob says:

            Mr Rog is the one who is uncomfortable with justice. He’s also uncomfortable with progress, and evolution and being a better person than those who murder.

          • Rog says:

            Is that you, Mum?

          • Rog's Mum says:

            Yes, Rog. Now stop masturbating into my underwear and come down for your tea.

          • Anonymous says:

            Bob thinks a threefold increase in the murder rate per annum is progress. Dear God !

          • I think I would...but theres going to be a queue... says:

            maybe but hes just tweeted his mum is after you so watch it…

      • 205
        • 226
          MrAngry61 says:

          But what does that raw statistic prove? That states with higher murder rates support harsher means of punishment? Or maybe that states with a lower murder rate can afford to keep fewer convicted murderers in prison for life?

          The statistic’s meaningless unless similar states are compared – similar as in overall crime rate, urban/rural population distribution, median and average income, education etc.

      • 216
        Bob says:

        Acts of commission are always morally inferior to acts of omission – it’s basic logic, dumbass.

        • 225
          Rog says:

          I’ll take the “morally inferior” dead murderers/alive would-be victims over your “superior” live murderers/dead victims scenario.

          You must be cleverer than what I is.

          • Mr Weiner says:

            Even though your argument of dead murderers equals alive victims is simplified black-and-white rubbish, I’d still lock up people rather than kill them. I’d rather try and improve society than maintain outdated ‘justice’ systems. I’d rather try and save someone than have to morally judge them before deciding whether or not I should save them, ignore them or execute them. Because morality is subjective. And I wouldn’t trust you with a moral anywhere near me, Rog.

          • Rog says:

            As long as I still get a Christmas card from you, I’ll be happy.

    • 45
      Anonymous says:

      A rhetorical question for you – did the officer in the article you link commit murder?

      • 188
        Your point is ? says:

        Perhaps we should make it mandatory that posters actually read the articles they comment on to avoid embarasment.

      • 190
        labourunionsbbc we are one says:

        Another rhetorical question has more pl od been mu rderd by civilians or more inocen t civil ians been murde red by coze rs.

        • 480
          peter says:

          Good point, the Plod seem to be able to shoot folk on pretty thin grounds; Jean Charles de Menenez supposedly wearing a suspicious jacket, Mark Saunders shot with an unloaded shotgun in Chelsea, Timothy Evans hung because he didn’t understand the questions being asked, Chris Evans while under arrest when a policeman shot still hung, Colin Stagg fitted up by ht epolice thankfully still alive, Birmingham 6 fitted up by the police but thankfully still alive> Guido should have a think about all the potential miscarriages of justice and how if any safer we’ll be. The US murder rate is 5 times higher than the UK, capital punishment isn’t making them any safer

    • 74
      Jethro Q. Walrus-Titty says:

      There are crimes that require the death penalty.Some-by no means all crimes of murder really are so bad that the they deserve the ultimate sanction.
      Therein lies the difficulty, to distinguish between the two.
      I don’t see any difficulty with executions of the Brady West and Huntleys of this world.
      Then again, fortunately these monsters only appear rarely.
      Preplanned consecutive murders where overwhelmingly proven deserve the death penalty-one recent example being Bellfield.Without a shadow of a doubt this man should have been executed.
      Those , liberal left wishy washy dogooders, politically correct naysayers should know in advance where to go with their ideas.

    • 101
      Sunday The Big Bang says:

      In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
      And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
      And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
      And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
      And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    • 152
      misterned says:

      IF the inspector in this case is found guilty of child abuse, then (a) he should no longer be a police officer and (b) should be sent to prison.

      IF the inspector in this case should be found guilty of killing the child then (a) he should no longer be a police officer, so your second flippant and stupid question would not even apply, and (b) he should be put to death.

      simple when you even give it a moments actual thought.

    • 267

      Guido,
      If you succeed in this (and although I as a libertarian cannot countenance the delegation to the State of a right which I do not possess – that is to say: to kill) and if there is a majority for it and the majority gets is way (which I suppose it should) then there is one problem:-

      Modern British Statism-creep shows us, always and everywhere, that once you let The State do something in specific instances – such as letting the death penalty be applied to murderers of police going about their duty, then the State will “creep” this particular let-out to gradually encompass all “Public Employees”. What shall we say then, when it becomes a capital offence to murder a “Local Council Dogmess Management Executive Co-Ordinator”: a LCDMECo forsooth? And even a trainee junior one at that?

      Look, either we have the Death Penalty for the murder ov anybody at all, even a poor old lonely pensioner lady in squalour whom everybody has forgotten and nobody sends cards to, or not. I think it’s bloody dangerous, already partitioning people into groups, a-la-fascism, some of whose lives warrant the death penalty and some do not, even before the principle is accepted back into discussion.

      • 367
        true libertarian says:

        “Modern British Statism-creep shows us….”

        Completely agree. If we believe in the rights of the individual, there is no justification for treating police differently to other victims of crime. Applying different (assymetric) rules for police officers could promote an arbitrary, Judge Dredd approach to policing, denying citizens their right to due process in a small proportion of cases – either because of bad apples in the police force, or an unfortunate coalescence of events (think Waco?)

      • 422
        AC1 says:

        Just on a technical point, you do have a right to kill in self defence.

        /pedant

        • 487
          Clown Shoes says:

          On another technial point, killing someone because you think might come and kill you at some non-specific point in the future doesn’t count as self-defence.

      • 465
        ST says:

        I agree with your post entirely, I cannot see how you can be a libertarian or indeed simply believe in the small state and support the states right to kill.

        But a small point niggles me, does the logic of the above force us into pacifism? If we don’t believe the state has the right to kill under the law, does it also not have the right to prosecute a war?

        • 489
          Clown Shoes says:

          The state has the right to preosecute a war in self-defence but not just because they feel like it. One of the indictments at Nuremburg was:

          “Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace”

          So we don’t have to be pacifists just because we don’t have a death penalty.

    • 334
      He's Spartacus says:

      Not in my name.

      God gave life, only He can take it away.

      Regards,

      Tom

    • 412
      davidb says:

      Shame on you Guido as an Irish man. Birmingham 6. All innocent, all would have been hanged on your measure.

      No suicidal maniac or true believer in the cause of his forebears will be put off by the prospect of the death penalty. But a few innocent victims of our box ticking corrupt establishment would in error be sent to the gallows.

      Better a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man be hanged. Jail them forever if needs be, but it is immoral to take life except in self defence or in the defence of your country.

    • 467
      Anonymous says:

      “Having the death penalty for cop killers will make criminals fear the consequences” – why is there no evidence that the death penalty is a deterrent then? And actually plenty to say that it makes absolutely no difference…

  2. 2

    Read the ECHR fully and you will see that:

    Article 1 – Abolition of the death penalty

    The death penalty shall be abolished. No one shall be condemned to such penalty or executed.

    Article 2 – Prohibition of derogations

    No derogation from the provisions of this Protocol shall be made under Article 15 of the Convention.

    Article 3 – Prohibition of reservations

    No reservation may be made under Article 57 of the Convention in respect of the provisions of this Protocol.

    Get your law right!

    • 18

      Article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights says…

      “Everyone’s right to life shall be protected by law. No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law.”

      The whole thing is a red herring, a sovereign parliament can of course undo any treaty.

      • 22
        justice for all? says:

        Guido,

        Are you calling for the death penalty for those who murder PSNI officers in Northern Ireland?
        yes or no.

        (I’m all for it)

      • 26
        disgusted of province says:

        reminds me of alan partridge – yes I do for treason and murder. A good idea would be to put the genius Phil Davis in charge and see how well it runs.

      • 169
        MI6 says:

        Guido The Death Penalty is just another Way for the Politcal Class to deflect their own Corruption. Why dont we have a vote on Tony Bliar Being Brought before the Courts for War Crimes and Treason. I say treason for the Blood of our troops on his hands for a lie.
        Now lets have a vote on that. He isn’t even in Prison no sanction eventhough he has destroyed our economy with the help of his Murdoch empire Pals

      • 182
        Four-eyed English Genius says:

        The EHCR is a self-contradictory load of bollox! What a surprise!

    • 104
      Johnny says says:

      thebungblog,

      Which ECHR are you reading from?

      The European Convention on Human Rights

      Article 1 says

      “The High Contracting Parties shall secure to everyone within their jurisdiction the rights and freedoms defined in Section I of this Convention.”

      Article 2 says

      “1.Everyone’s right to life shall be protected by law. No one shall be deprived of his life intentionally save in the execution of a sentence of a court following his conviction of a crime for which this penalty is provided by law.

      2.Deprivation of life shall not be regarded as inflicted in contravention of this article when it results from the use of force which is no more than absolutely necessary:

      (a) in defence of any person from unlawful violence;

      (b) in order to effect a lawful arrest or to prevent escape of a person unlawfully detained;

      (c) in action lawfully taken for the purpose of quelling a riot or insurrection.”

      Article 3 says

      “No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”

  3. 3
    Tessa Tickles says:

    “Hindley and Brady tortured and killed five children for sexual kicks. Even after half-a-century of pampered imprisonment they have proved beyond rehabilitation.”

    Hindley is, of course, dead now.

    • 5
      The Piss Soaked Tramp Formally Known As TAT! says:

      Not through the lack of The Guardian and Lord Longford Mad Hatties Uncle trying to get her released though…

      • 9
        Tessa Tickles says:

        True. But rehabilitation’s pretty tricky when the person you’re trying to rehabilitate is dead.

        • 64
          Anonymous says:

          I wouldnt loose to much sleep over that, I would weep for the victim though.

          • Figure of Hate says:

            Weep?

            Count the times you’ve wept for a murder victim, when you felt the opportunities lost and empathised with their helplessness at their doom.

            Now count the times you raged at the news calling for death of the perpetrator and how that made you feel decisive, strong and more superior to the limp wristed fools that you meet on a daily basis.

        • 113
          Fog says:

          To quibble about the sentence ‘Even after half-a-century of pampered imprisonment they proved beyond rehabilitation.’ – is a bit pedantic. The crimes were committed in the 60′s, Hindley died in 2002, Brady is still alive, and what they did is unquestionably horrific.

        • 163
          misterned says:

          Hindley is dead, 38 years too late. How much had it cost to feed and keep her for all that time?

          She should have been executed at the time.

          • misterned says:

            As for the nonsense about a civilised society does not execute people, I would say a civilised society does not extract money through force of law to pay for keeping murderers in comfortable surroundings, well fed and clothed and entertained.

            The death penalty is cheap and effective.

          • Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

            And the rate of re-offending is very low!

    • 382
      Dean Hunt says:

      Not dead enough.

  4. 4
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    “A life for a life”

    Or a knifing for a knifing etc

    Tho that type of “Justice” would mean no need for prison (except for kidnapping, tho gitmo is still open)

    Just trying to follow your logic, It comes across as support for sharia type law.

    Still if you get your wish for this to be debated in the house, then voted on then its democrcy and the will of the elected representtives, maybe there should be a public referendum?

  5. 6
    Rumpole Stiltskin QC says:

    It’s a start but, under this plan, Raoul Moat would not have been executed..well, at least not legally.

  6. 11
    A cunning plan says:

    Hmmm. Parliament goes on holiday. Page-hits for order-order will go down. Ad-revenue will fall..

    Unless..

  7. 12
    Plato says:

    I don’t want a death penalty reinstated myself – but I think we should debate it very robustly.

    Far too often, we shrink from addressing issues – we need to grow some bigger cojones.

    • 81
      Engineer says:

      Best way to address any problem or disagreement between people about how we organise society is to debate it openly. Not to do so can be rather like screwing down the safety valves on a boiler – something will go bang eventually. See immigration, EU membership and AGW for details.

    • 119
      Johnny says says:

      I am of a similar view to yours – that there needs to be a grown up discussion on crime and punishment but am not comfortable with the death penalty. Not least how it has been… executed… in the US – A lengthy and slow appeals process put people on death row for decades.

      We seem to be tending towards a Parliament that does not protect the public by allowing concurrent and short sentencing and pathetic community sentences, does not seek to rehabilitate prisoners all that much nor put them in a place that is a genuine punishment for their crimes. Under the previous Government it was supposedly progressive to be doing this. Under this Government it is supposedly for reasons of cost. It is bollocks in both cases. They simply aren’t interested in doing the job properly and dismiss any attempts to talk about it.

  8. 13
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Just a thought Guido, you explian why cop killers should get the death pen because of the job they do, why not then “Troop-killers”, i did hear a story a while ago about a few sqauddies out and one of them got stabbed and died i think.

    You could argue they should be treated the same?

    • 30
      Ordinary Tory says:

      Ah but I think the argument for Cop Killers are if the cop is kill on duty; which I assume the squaddies weren’t.

    • 105
      Rumpole Stiltskin QC says:

      How about extending the definition to “anyone entitled to wear a uniform of any part of the justice system”? Excluding traffic wardens, obviously…

      • 368
        nursery nurse hung out to dry by laundry says:

        ah ok but what about step relative’s friends ?…surely they should be included

  9. 14
    Jess The Dog says:

    Most of us don’t want to be part of a country that kills people. Support has declined over recent years, according to UK Polling Report.

    The likes of Hindley, Brady, Bellfield and so on are repugnant creatures that must be caged and never released. Killing them would not make future potential victims any safer, or bring back those they murdered so abhorrently.

    I think a death penalty would even make murder convictions less likely, especially after recent miscarriages of justice, and could lead to guilty people going free.

    The fundamental question is ‘why’? Why restore the death penalty? Because people want it? Do they really, or is it all in the question? What if the question was ‘life means life’ vs ‘the death penalty’? The lowest rates of homicide are in Ireland and Germany, two countries unlikely ever to see a return of the death penalty (particularly given the Irish conscience on abortion and the historic role of capital punishment as an English-introduced law in Ireland).

    • 47
      Stinkfinger says:

      How many Afro Caribeans live in Ireland and Germany?
      Not many benny.Is that their secret to success?

    • 70
      Anonymous says:

      It would certainly make many murders less likely.

    • 93
      smoggie says:

      Most of us don’t want to be part of a country that kills people.

      Then you should have no fear of a debate on the subject.

      • 294
        Figure of Hate says:

        smoggie, my poor, dear, deluded soul. Since when does the majority of public opinion translate into policy?

    • 94
      Anonymous says:

      Thats only your opinion when you speak for “Most of us”. I think your wrong to say that. Lets have a referendum to see whos right.

    • 118
      Fog says:

      Murderers kill innocent people

      • 439
        Anonymous says:

        Not necessarily. Sometimes murderers kill nasty bastards who the world’s better off without. (Sometimes those nasty bastards may even be serving police officers.) But whether or not it’s scum that’s getting killed, it’s still murder.

        And the same applies if it’s the state that’s doing the killing. The people getting killed may be scum. But it’s still murder.

    • 243
      MrAngry61 says:

      What if the question was ‘life means life’ vs ‘the death penalty’?

      Politicians have already proved themselves incapable of managing, funding or building the 100,000 odd additional prison places that the country needs – they prefer to manage demand instead.

      I’m reading a book about the Florida Correctional system – there custodial sentences are severe by comparison with the UK, and ‘life without parole’ actually means that. Politicians support life-long incarceration/capital punishments because their electorate overwhelmingly support it.

      At least with the death penalty no politician can later release a ‘potentially reformed’ killer simply because the country’s short of prison cells…

  10. 15
    Ben J says:

    How about reining in the sick Michael Winner fantasies about capital punishment for cop killers? You write that having the death penalty will make criminals fear the consequences of killing cops as though cop-killing was a regular occurrence in this country. It’s actually exceedingly rare, which suggests that criminals are already very wary of taking this action. Part of the reason for the low cop-killing numbers is that our police are usually unarmed. I would be almost certain that were you to ask the public if all police should carry firearms, as in the USA, a resounding majority would vote in favour. Should we then impose this on the police, even though a huge majority do not want to carry guns?

    Stick to baiting Piers Moron please.

    • 245
      MrAngry61 says:

      How many police officers were killed in 2010? And how many were seriously injured & survived only because of flak jacket/prompt surgery?

      If someone can get hanged for killing a policeman they’ll probably be less inclined to attack them in the first place, as well as less likely to intentionally use fatal force.

      • 461
        Spartacus says:

        And how many people have been knocked down on zebra crossings by police cars; shot for brandishing chair legs; punched to death and on and on.

  11. 16
    Bile says:

    Yeah, let’s vote to allow the state to kill people, what could possibly go wrong?

    Odd timing, and an even odder topic for a self-proclaimed libertarian.

    • 46
      Anonymous says:

      You confuse the state with the jury , are you a Socialist perchance ?

      • 272
        Figure of Hate says:

        Err, but the state has to change the law so that it can choose the laws which when transgressed result in capital punishment – thereby indirectly or otherwise giving the state the power to kill people.

        Are you retarded, by chance?

        • 304
          Figure of Eight says:

          If the day came when the state changed the law it would be because the People wanted it. Are you completely brainwashed by your left of centre education that you cannot tell the difference ?

          • Figure of Hate says:

            I refer the honorable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago (comment 278).

        • 307
          Anonymous says:

          oh I get you, what you are in fact advocating is the re introduction of Capital punishment which is then put out to tender and private companies can do it so the State dont need to get involved. I jest, of course The State would administer it you fuckwit !

          • Figure of Hate says:

            Please feel free to assume any position at any point regardless of anything said before so that your ego may remain suitably polished. I wont be offended.

    • 71
      Engineer says:

      It’s not against libertarian principles to allow free spe ach and open debate.

      Guido’s perfectly entitled to his opinions, and he’s perfectly entitled to publish them, whenever he chooses. You’re perfectly free to disagree with him (as I do on the question of the death penalty).

  12. 17
    Maltese Cross says:

    I wouldn’t have the death penalty for all crimes. Whilst I sympathise I’m not like those people who want it for littering or theft.

  13. 19
    True colours says:

    Guido, have the Dowler family specifically backed the return of the death penalty?

    It would be pretty sick of you to use them for your publicity campaign if you haven’t checked this. Still, now you’re in the gutter with Murdoch who cares?

    • 24
      The Piss Soaked Tramp Formally Known As TAT! says:

      Stop thinking about Lee Jaspers black dick.

  14. 20
    Ben J says:

    They have called for a return of the death penalty.

  15. 21
    • 27
      Ben J says:

      We could add a long list of other innocent people who would now be dead if capital pinishment hadn’t been abolished.

      • 80
        Rog says:

        Let’s not omit the many innocents who have been murdered thanks to the hand-wringers abolishing the death penalty as a deterrent.

        • 125
          Mr Weiner says:

          Because all you blood-smearing fascists always stand up for the innocents!

          • Rog says:

            Argument FAIL, right there.

            Perhaps you should save your swivel-eyed ire for the actual “blood-smearers”.

            Hint: that’ll be the murderers that actually brutally murder people by the bucketload every year.

            Congrats.

          • Anonymous says:

            Yes Mr Weiner thats a well constructed argument. You must have agonised all night wrestling with this issue. So to re iterate your point…anyone supporting Capital Punishment is a Blood Soaked Facist. Have I understood your line of reason correctly ?

          • misterned says:

            Tell you what Mr Weiner, have all the most psychotic murderers move in and live with you and you offer them protection.

            I would rather the public were protected by killing those found guilty beyond doubt. After all, how many executed murderers have gone on to kill again?

          • Mr Weiner says:

            According to Rog, everyone who opposes capital punishment is a hand-wringing lefty.

            So according to me in my anti-Rog mode, everyone who supports it is a blood smearing fascist.

            I’m meeting stupidity with stupidity here.

            Good day!

          • Rog says:

            Hey Mr Weiner, see you next Tuesday at Stupids Anonymous!

            PS Don’t believe I actually said what you said I did – but don’t let that stop you.

          • Mr Weiner says:

            Hey anonymous Rog,

            I’m just flinging simplistic arguments about like you, just to get a rise. Seems to be the way on this blog.

            Now fellate underaged crazy klanners on Friday Fourteenth.

          • Rog says:

            Your cool headed logic is unassailable!

            Well done!

          • Figure of Hate says:

            Mr Weiner,

            I am, unfortunately, on your side.

            Please be quiet.

          • there will be problems ...you have to be patient says:

            I think you’re both a pair of tits

          • you've got les chance of winning the lottery than being unjustly executed... says:

            chew on his weiner rog….you naughty boy you

        • 282
          Figure of Hate says:

          Is it possible that our current system of imprisonment rather than retribution has had a positive effect on individuals’ perception of justice and morality?

          Justice is currently something that only the state has the resources to do. Introduce capital punishment and individuals will suddenly have the tools to administer the ultimate, morally justified, punishment.

          I’ll have a fiver with you that if this gets through, there will be a 20% YoY increase in gangland killings and thick men killing cheating spouses only to then commit suicide.

          Your argument assumes that people like child killers are rational, normal people that make decisions in the same way as most of the population. Given that they’re decided to become child killers…. well, I’ll let you make the final leap….

    • 35
      The Piss Soaked Tramp Formally Known As TAT! says:

      The mug deserved to die for bullshitting and changing his story so much.

      • 280
        The Piss Soaked Tramp Formally Known As TAT! says:

        It’s true though you are either innocent and telling the truth or you are not, why the need to make up so stories if he was innocent and telling the truth?

        He brought his death sentence on himself from day one for being a billy bullshitter and making up so many tales. How is everyone else to know what the truth is, if this clown, the so called husband who was there when it happened couldn’t keep his story straight until his head was on the hang mans noose.

  16. 23
    Stinkfinger says:

    People forget that we already have the death penalty.Note by rope but by a Police 9mm bullet,without trial and often for non capital crimes.
    Would a strong detterent Like the restoration of the death penalty not mean we could return to the days when cops were unarmed and these ‘miscarriages’ of justice could be avoided?
    How the Liberals can be happy with our current status quo I’m fucked if I know.

    • 54
      A. Pierrepoint (decd.) says:

      Summary execution carried out by the police isn’t just gunfire on the streets, it’s also by beatings and other violence; not to mention the car chases.

      I really think that Guido has got so immersed in Murdoch and the rest of the “Yellow Press” that he has been turned mad by them and thus comes up with this tripe.

      I gather that he considers himself to be an Irishman. In the 1970′s and after, having seen and experienced at first hand the IRA bombings and killing in London, I would cheerfully have seen the Gerry Adams type of “freedom fighter” strung up from the nearest lamp post. Much as I don’t care for Thatcher, she was right to let Sands and Co. do themselves in. So, in spite of them killing dozens of policemen and soldiers, not to mention all the other innocents, the death penalty for the “gonmen” was best avoided.

      If the people who apparently support this wish to live in such a society, then they should bugger off to Iran, Saudi, Korea or wherever they can be assured of Newgate and Tyburn spectacles to satisfy their revolting tendencies and desires.

      • 505
        TONY BEN'S WILL says:

        the idea was that if you hanged the ir a then it would make them martyrs and there would be lots more killing ,so we didn’t hang them and of course there were no more killings ….yep I get it now

    • 58
      Annon says:

      9 mm..Dum- Dum, do try and keep up with the facts

  17. 28
    Joe Donnelly says:

    This is pretty incredible Guido. I never realised just how….well like this you are….You actually openly state that retribution is ok.

    You do realise that you and fundamentalist Muslims would agree very strongly on this issue!

    Where on earth is the justification for retribution? Having a family member killed is a horrific experience but I cannot see a justification for letting me kill the person who did it.

    An eye for an eye will leave us all blind.

    Seriously, this is fundamentalist Muslim and Christian claptrap

    • 60
      Anonymous says:

      Sorry joe, disagree with you there retribution is integral to an effective system of justice.

      • 286
        Figure of Hate says:

        There are some strong emotional connotations to retribution. The last thing any justice system needs is to play to the emotions of the baying herds.

        • 309
          La Cutis of Borg says:

          What you want is to assimilate into a Borg Collective, no emotions there, resistance is futile.

          • Figure of Hate says:

            Either you feel that justice serves the desires of a lynch mob, or we are talking at cross purposes.

    • 86
      Rog says:

      Umm, don’t exactly understand your problem with the concept of “justice”.

      It’s what we used to have. Bad people being punished as a punishment and deterrent.

      Thanks to a (loud) minority (usually safely insulated from the effects), we now have hand-wringing psychiatry and rehab liberal psycho-wankery instead.

      No wonder crime is out of control.

      • 95
        Ben J says:

        Crime isn’t out of control. It’s been falling for years.

        • 99
          Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

          reported crime has, real crime hasnt.

          • Mr Weiner says:

            Real crime according to who? People who read tabloids and think there’s a mugger on every corner? Your real crime is total guesswork anyway. And who says this guesswork is higher than the guesswork 40 years ago? More people report crime than they used to…

          • Cynical Old Man says:

            Reported crime has been falling, not because of the efficiency of the police and government to protect us, but because of the belief that it will make no difference reporting it. Many people now believe it’s a waste of time reporting damage, theft, minor burglaries and minor assaults because the police will do nothing about them. Do you know how many crimes are “screened” – the process of immediately filing reported crimes because they are considered undetectable? No copper gets a chance to ask a few questions with neighbours, or even make a few phone calls with this system.

            Many crimes were reported for insurances purposes at one time, but in these days of recession and credit crunches a hell of a lot of people can’t afford to insure a lot of their property.

            The main reason reported crime has “fallen” is because too many people don’t bother to report anything other than the most serious of offences.

  18. 29
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Who was the man that was hung for killing a cop (when we had death pen before) and after long campain was declared innocent (or words to that effect)?

    • 37
      Ben J says:

      Derek Bentley. It was the infamous “Let him have it” case.

    • 41
      It shouldn't happen says:

      And surely just one instance of such a mistake is enough to say no to the reintroduction of the death penalty?

      • 44
        Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

        I am dead against the death pen.

        we have corupt police, coruppt media, coruppt politicons, the CPS is full of “Yes” men.

        I do not have full confidence in the crimnail justice system without it having the death pen.

        • 53
          Anonymous says:

          But your a schitzo Billy so your opinion is of no consequence

          • Figure of Hate says:

            Tell me Mouse,

            Could the death penalty reduce the number of murderers convicted?

            Does this page of comments not show you that there are people that take this very seriously? Perhaps seriously enough to vote ‘Not Guilty’ when asked?

            Maybe you would prefer trial without jury.

          • Anonymous says:

            WTF are you on about Figure of fun ????

          • Figure of Hate says:

            Sorry if that was too complicated. Try this:

            There once was a little girl of 18. She was put on a jury. There was a man on trial. He was there because the police thought he killed someone. She watched as lots of people argued for days on end. It was all very confusing. At the end she was asked whether the man did kill anyone. She thought he might have.

            “Hang him!”, said another person in the jury room.
            “What?” said the little girl.
            “Find him guilty and he’ll probably swing!”, said another juror.
            “Oh no!”, said the little girl, “you mean if I’m wrong (and it was quite confusing) then a man could die because of what I say here?”
            “You’re not wrong, dear! You can see it in his eyes!”
            “But I don’t know!” said the little girl. “I can’t be sure!”.
            Another juror piped up and said “I’m not sure either. I can’t condemn a man to death if I don’t KNOW he did it”.
            Another butted in and said “I can’t condemn a man to death even if I knew he did it!”

            You can make up your own ending….

      • 57
        If one Death on the roads can be prevented by banning cars would you support that as well ? says:

        So all those murdered who may well be saved if the ultimate deterent was in place are of no consequence are they ?

    • 61
      Engineer says:

      Derek Bentley?

      • 62
        Engineer says:

        Too late….

      • 91
        Anonymous says:

        So what Engineer, the man was a criminal who together with her murdering friend went out to rob armed with a gun which was then used to Kill a police officer and yet you seem to think that any perceived miscarraige of justice as it applies to Bently tops all the other considerations mainly concerning the massive list of victims accrued since abolition. You throw a few names such as Bently and i could spend all day posting lists of victims who in many cases would be alive today if we still had hanging.

        read this http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2006/07/cost-effective-justice-5.html

  19. 31
    b34st says:

    Even better the right to carry a firearm and use it if threatened
    Tip to everybody google “tactical pen”(uzi is the one I carry) legal to carry and you can do a shocking amount of damage with one
    Glock would be nicer but hey ho

    • 444
      Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

      Hmm, could be considered an offensive weapon and therefore illegal to possess in public.

      If you are carrying it for the purpose of self defence and not writing down things then you could be guilty of carrying an offensive weapon.

      Carrying an offensive weapon for the purposes of self defence is not an excuse in english law.

  20. 32
    Sadly disappointed after so many months of entertainment says:

    Does Ms Fawkes need a new bike Guido?

    With parliament (sic) on holiday, I can’t think of a better tin cup to rattle to bring in those shekels.

    You can take the boy out of Ireland, etc., etc…

    • 111
      smoggie says:

      Try playing the ball, you might get a thumb or two.

    • 139
      non believer says:

      IIRC Mrs Fawkes controls the purse strings

      Guido’s pin money goes on special brew and pies seemingly.

  21. 34
    Even one miscarriage of justice is more than is acceptable says:

    A life for a life.

    Old Testament?

    • 49
      The warped morality of the handwringers says:

      So its better that hundreds are murdered each year than the slim possibility that a miscarriage occurs is it ?

      • 55
        Princess Po-Face Polytwaddle, a Sham Pain Socialist says:

        I’m a hand wringer, – and I am ALWAYS right.

        • 392
          Figure of Hate says:

          I am envious.

          I would probably be a much happier if I could see things as simply as you.

      • 56
        Sadly disappointed after so many months of entertainment says:

        Does having the death penalty do much for American murder rates?

        Just askin’ like….
        :whistle:

      • 103
        Ben J says:

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/21/murders-drop-home-office-figures

        There were 650 murders 2008-9 in the UK. Do you seriously think that if there were a death penalty this number would be much lower?

        My view is that most people who support the death penalty do so because they see a natural justice in an eye for an eye. Not an argument I agree with, but each to his own.

        The problem I have is that capital punishment proponents then try to make themselves sound less vengeful by pretending there is proof that the death penalty acts as a deterrent.

        • 128
          Rog says:

          Yes, ignore the tripling in homicides since abolition.

        • 160
          Anonymous says:

          Ok so other than a marked fall in the homicide rates what kind of proof of deterence are you looking for ? Just wondering like..

          • Anonymous says:

            Could those who have given thumbs down please answer the question ?

          • Mr Weiner says:

            Not looking for a proof of deterrence. Looking for some kind of sign we are evolving into better human beings who don’t need to execute people to solve problems.

          • Anonymous says:

            And in the meantime until such times as you find your perfect solution those 300 odd additional victims will just have to make do with being guinea pigs in your brave new world. No thanks not in my name.

        • 478
          Mr Black says:

          650 murders. 650 MPs. We can but dream.

          The death penalty is not a deterrent. People who kill, by-and-large, have either not considered the consequences (perhaps they don’t have the time or the ability to consider the consquences) or they think that they are smart enough to get away with it.

          Some people claim that upto 300 lives could be saved every year. Bollocks. There are not 300 people thinking to themselves “it’s only a life sentence, it’s going to be worth doing the time to kill my boss/my spouse/a child/a random stranger”.

  22. 48
    Ah! Monika says:

    If all else fits the Death Penalty, then it ought to be a requirement that the senior member of the family affected agrees to pull the leaver.

  23. 50
    Ah! Monika says:

    Or even lever

  24. 52
    Radge says:

    Fook me, deratify the ECHR to remove our basic human rights and give the goons of the British establishment, whose incompetence you document daily, the power of life and death over us. I take it you’re worried about a lack of traffic during the silly season, Guido?

  25. 59
    Stinkfinger says:

    We were sold a fucking pup when they abolished the death penalty.
    Life in prison was the deal…… my arse.
    Out in 10 and every innocent person is required to get a CRB check so those fuckers can remain anonymous.
    Armed cops,CRB checks,CCTV and homes turned into fortresses,just to keep the liberal dream of re habilitation alive.
    What a bunch of c*nts.

    • 217
      Cynical Old Man says:

      Ordinary people in this country seemed to manage their freedoms quite well before Blair brought the ECHR into British Law. It seems all the ECHR has done is make human rights lawyers (including his slotgob wife) very rich and enable terrorists and numerous ne’er do wells of foreign extraction to leech of the British taxpayer. The ECHR doesn’t seem to work for ordinary people who just want to be allowed to get on with their lives. It HAS cemented the rights of anti-social misfits, perverts and criminals to blight the lives of law abiding people.

      We weren’t exactly living in a totalitarian state prior to 1997 but we came very close to one after that date.

  26. 63
    ethelred bottoms up says:

    Glad to see the pub bore tendency is till alive and well…

  27. 65
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    anyway Guido, it will be the lawyers that win :-)

    • 83
      Middle Stump says:

      You mean there will be endless appeals, Billy?

    • 109
      Rumpole Stiltskin QC says:

      The lawyers will want to know how you intend to bring about the reincarnation of the dead who have their convictions quashed some years later.

      • 166
        Joe Public says:

        Whereas I want to know How such Lawyers intend to bring about the reincarnation of the additional 300-400 victims per year that have resulted since abolition.

  28. 69
    S.B.S says:

    Capital punishment will not work in the U.K. with the corrupt police we have, along with the politicians.
    The right and means to self protection (firearms) would do away with the need for capital punishment.
    But the hypocrisy we have with all U.K. governments who hide behind armed police, but deny its citizens the same rights is truly appalling.

  29. 73
    Brian eating muffins says:

    If we executed child killers, then the mothers found to have been wrongly convicted on the back of evidence given by paediatrician Roy Meadow would presumably have been put to death.
    The same burden of proof was required for their conviction as is required for any conviction. Proven beyond reasonable doubt, but subsequently overturned.
    If capital punishment is restored, it applies to everyone. Not just the tabloid’s dozen or so featured favourite scum-bags. There is no option to just kill the ones that the Sun says it’s ok to kill. Bad idea.

    • 177
      Joe Public says:

      Homicide figures for the UK show that there has been a tripling of the murder rate on average since abolition. This works out to around 300 additional victims per year on average. This is a hell of a lot of people if you extrapolate back to 1965.
      Even accepting miscarriages would occur are you seriously arguing that this figure is an acceptable price to pay to avoid a few miscarraiges which may occur over the same period?

      • 403
        Figure of Hate says:

        Joe,

        My history isn’t that good and I’m not a scientist, however there may have been some other cultural, environmental, technological and economic developments since 1965 which may have had a bearing on the murder rate.

        Kind regards

  30. 76
    Moley. says:

    Governments obstruct the will of their people at their peril.

    Charles Moore speaks for me (and probably the majority of Conservative voters),

    in the Telegraph.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8671359/Our-leaders-have-lost-faith-in-the-powers-of-their-people.html

    How long will Conservatives have to wait for a Conservative leader?

  31. 77
    Anonymous says:

    In addition to society being wronged does anyone have a ball park figure of how much Hindley and Brady have cost us over the last fifty years?It seems that the system is designed to ensure that Society loses out either way.

  32. 78
    Wee Willy Hague says:

    Well the government supports the death penalty for Colonel Gad Daffy, and one day our smart bombs will carry it out.

    • 148
      Anonymous says:

      Well, maybe a stray missile could accidentally take out a few prisons etc, giving the prison officers 10 minutes warning to lock the doors and leave…

  33. 79
    Moley. says:

    Unintended consequences.

    The moderation system appears to be functioning in such a way as to prevent the posting of anything except obscene rubbish.

    Why is that a good thing?

  34. 87
    Stinkfinger says:

    I know where I stand but can everyone at least agree that Life should mean life?
    That would be a more achievable Campaign I think Guido.
    If the sentence of life in prison(proper) is still too unpalatable for you to consider.
    Then you are a complete twat.That’s official.

  35. 89
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    So Guido, As you want speical treatment for Cops how about strciter punishment when they get it wrong?

    Death pen for killer cops?

  36. 92
    issed off voter says:

    Ever a toughie, this one. My heart says bring back the death penalty but my head says no. Currently, the main players in prosecutions are police and the CPS, often apparently driven by the media and/or politicians. Recent history and current events highlight that those elements are utterly unreliable.

    I could support this petition if the premise was a little different i.e. rather than applying it based on the class of victim, apply it based on quality of evidence. e.g in the case which is cited above, Brady/Hindley had the audacity to film their macabre deeds – hang them. I’d also be looking for checks and balances like a review of evidence by an alternative police force and prosecuting authority as corroboration, since it very much appears to me that there is a deal of corruption among the higher levels of officialdom from where there is considerable opportunity to pervert justice.

  37. 97
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Even tho i am dead against the death pen, IF this was to go to the house, i would prefer that is to deabte a referendum for the people on the subject, This is a very sensitive subject on both sides and i fell the people should have the say not 650 odd MPs.

    I hope in your campiagn for demorcy you will regonise the will of the people should be final, and as it is sucha massive change to our constituion thier voice must be heard via a referendum.

  38. 100
    Brian eating muffins says:

    Why should the life of a brave firefighter, killed in a blaze started by an arsonist perhaps, be considered of less value than that of police officer?
    The police may be doing a risky job, but outside of Northern Ireland have rarely been specifically targeted. The PSNI itself is probably at no greater risk than soldiers or MLA; why should their lives be valued differently?
    I should think that it is more likely for a police officer to die in an accident whilst on duty in the UK, than to be murdered whilst on duty. Not a special case at all.

  39. 107
    Billy Boredom is the grossest bumpile ever ! says:

    100th?

    • 115
      Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

      Nope!

      Comment stuck in mod land.

      • 120
        Billy Boredom is the grossest bumpile ever ! says:

        lol – Pietersen just got fed up with standing around in the sunshine.

  40. 111
    annette curton says:

    You are flogging a dead horse on this one, the death penalty will never be reintroduced in this country on a judicial basis, just as well too they would keep stringing the wrong people up (stick to politicians Guido).

    • 176
      Stinkfinger says:

      You mean the wrong ‘type’ of people being hung is why the death penalty wont come back.
      Can’t have all that ‘Strange Fruit’ hanging around.

  41. 114
    Pillsbury says:

    Morally I agree with the great Guido, but speaking as an old-time [no longer] Prosecutor, you would rarely get a jury to convict now in a capital case.

  42. 124
    Brian eating muffins says:

    Studies (England & Wales) over the last decade show that the mentally ill are six times more likely to be murdered than the general population.
    If having a deterrent is the issue, why apply the death penalty specifically to the rare murder of a police officer, but not specifically to the murder of a mentally ill person? The mentally ill are arguably in greater need of a deterrent than the police.
    Other factors significantly raising one’s risk of murder include being male, being poor, being under 30. Being a PC does not enter the equation.

    • 136
      annette curton says:

      What about the dangers of living next door to somebody that’s mentally ill?, have they factored that into the equation.

  43. 130
    Cynical Old Bastard says:

    While in my ideal world all murderers would be strung up, I think this is a mistaken policy for a libertarian blog to pursue, because it implies a trust in the machinery of the state that it will not execute innocent people (a) deliberately (b) on purpose.

    Everywhere that authoritarian states have the ability to get rid of annoying individuals by killing someone and then fitting them up for a capital offence, they do.

    And anyone who’s spent time working with the police and courts in this country, like I have, knows that we still jail plenty of people for crimes they didn’t commit, often with them having been framed by the police:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2012628/Lynette-White-murder-8-South-Wales-police-officers-trial-told-prostitute-children-taken-care-did-collude.html

    The legalise-all-drugs campaign would be the libertarian campaign that I would favour, as it would reduce the number of innocent people harmed by drug crime, while consenting adults who choose to cultivate a drug habit would be free to do so.

    However I fear that Guido has decided it is easier to pursue a populist line rather than a truly libertarian one.

  44. 133
    Fed up w1th be1ng m0dded f0r fcuk @11 says:

    1s 1t s@fe to c0me 0ut @nd p0st n0w?

  45. 142
    docpete says:

    I’m sorry, this shrieking campaign for the death penalty sickens me and you, Guido, have just sunk in my mind. Yes, I would cheerfully execute a guilty bastard myself, but no, I do not trust the “Law” to deliver the right verdict at the right time. OJ Simpson is a fine example of a less than clear outcome of the legal process – personally I feel he was guilty. It is easy to apply mob law to “clearly” guilty people such as Baby P’s “guardians”, but maybe their depravity is the fault of the feckless political class that allowed them to be subsidised by the taxpayer. How about Prescott, Brown, Bradshaw, Balls, Blair and Co putting their hands up as being responsible? What about Kerschner, is she guilty? You don’t know, I don’t know.

    Life (meaning life) in prison is a truly dreadful sentence. Make life mean life. If it is proven to be wrong, at least we can attempt to make redress. Death applied on the basis of our dreadfully corrupt legal system is the definition of evil. Come on Guido, you have railed against the system, at least be true to your principles. Up until this episode you had my complete respect. Carry on with this and I will fight you tooth and nail.

    Can you give me examples of the “Law” getting it wrong? Yes? Well that’s the reason not to have a death penalty but to make life mean life.

    Guido, please don’t go to the “dark side”.

    Pete

  46. 143
    Fed up w1th be1ng m0dded f0r fcuk @11 says:

    C@n we h@ve @ gu1ll0t1ne c0z 1t w0uld m@ke better te11y

  47. 146
    Ironside says:

    In the USA the jury decides whether the accused is guilty of murder or not. If they have convicted him/her they then go onto to discuss a second verdict to decide whether the death penalty should be applied.

    This system could work very well in Britain, provided the supplementary verdict on sentence is UNANIMOUS.

    You can trust juries in most parts of Britain to get it right. I do not include juries in Coventry, and Snaresbrook, as the majority of the jurors there usually have form, but even those who have form have a fundamental morality when it comes to crimes of such repulsiveness as Brady and Hindley (and Huntley etc).

    Even then, it is entirely possible, if not probable, that one in twelve of the jury will be anti the death penalty in principle, and will still not vote for it despite the level of the atrocity of the crime.

    The result is that this satisfies the anti-death penalty side and also the pro-death penalty side, as the moral argument is met as well as the deterrent argument.

    Premeditated murderers would most certainly think twice about planning a murder. People like Ian Huntley probably would too.

    You cannot discount the potential deterrent effect, even if the penalty is never applied automatically.

    • 275
      No, no, no, no says:

      ‘You can trust juries in most parts of Britain to get it right’

      ‘most parts’ is not enough.

      • 308
        Anonymous says:

        Er……yes it is.

      • 314
        Anonymous says:

        Unless you dont get out of bed each day unless you can Guarentee utopia then its good enough for me as well. We will always have an imperfect system of justice, its still better than no justice at all.

    • 279
      Duncan says:

      Here’s why you’re wrong;

      The second verdict does not call into question the first. That is, if you’ve been found guilty of a crime for which the death penalty is applied (which typically requires the standard of proof to be ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ anyway) the second discussion is whether the /crime/ merits the penalty of death, not about whether we are so sure you did it we are confident in applying the death penalty. That means, for those falsely accused and convicted of heinous crimes they will still be executed for the crime by virtue of the severity of the crime, resting solely upon the confidence of the jury in the first verdict. Do you see? It’s not a second verdict in the relevant sense of providing an extra defense against wrongful execution.

      The deterrent effect: pffff. I’m more persuaded by Guido’s Tory tub-thumping about ‘certain acts being so abhorrent’ etc – there’s little evidence the death penalty has any beneficial deterrent effect in the US and other countries where it is enforce. You may think it ought to, but that’s not how sociological evidence works – when your intuitions about behaviour don’t match the evidence it’s not the evidence we ought to ignore.

      • 471
        Anonymous says:

        Duncan I did not mean to suggest the second verdict was a ‘second’ defence to the crime itself, in fact I am pretty sure I didn’t.

        But you do raise another issue which is the one of a ‘lurking doubt’ which a juror may well having neverthless found the defendant guilty.

        Such cases may well see the death penalty not applied because, despite voting for conviction, the juror has a faint hesitation about the evidence, despite it satisfying them beyond reasonable doubt. They may not be satisfied beyond ‘all doubt’.

        As for the sociological evidence – er..excuse me I wouldn’t touch that with my barge pole. But I would say is that the evidence about the deterrent effect can be slanted either way, and no doubt you have seen evidence which points both ways as we all have. The net effect of this evidence does change over time, and one generation may think differently from an earlier one.

  48. 149
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    The main debate is what is Justice?

  49. 150
    Arthur Koestler (1905-1983) says:

    The gallows is not only a machine of death but a symbol. It is the symbol of terror, cruelty, and irreverence for life; the common denominator of primitive savagery, medieval fanaticism and modern totalitarianism.

    • 195
      Just Sayin' Like... says:

      If rape was a Capital offense, I don’t think Koestler would have lived long enough to provide your soundbite.

    • 198
      Arthur Koestler (2011) says:

      Little c*nt just stabbed me for my pocket watch.

  50. 161
    Anon says:

    The rebirth of hanging for murder would make no change to the number being murdered.However,the finances for keeping offenders in jail would be reduced.Not back to bloody money again?

    • 183
      Joe Public says:

      “would make no change”. A bold statement my friend and what is this based on prey tell. Can you provide evidence of such a claim,?

  51. 162
    Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche says:

    “Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful! ~

    Thus Spake Zarathustra

    • 186
      Your point is ? says:

      And does this apply to all forms of punishment such as fines, imprisonment, work orders etc

  52. 164
    Rh- says:

    Cop and kiddy killers? Hang the frackers. End of.

  53. 165
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    that is not in the spirit of the game!!!!

    Shame on Dohni!!!!!!!!

    • 174
      annette curton says:

      Hang \im.

    • 179
      Infuriated of West Mids says:

      Absolutely disgusting.

    • 196
      Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

      I withdraw that remark as Dhoni called Bell back after tea.

      Big respect to Dhoni, You are a true custondian of the spirit of the game :-)

      • 284
        Infuriated of West Mids says:

        Hear hear. Heat of the moment. Five minutes to think about it, and the right decision was reached.

        Cricket is the winner.

  54. 168
    MB. says:

    Like most I worry about wrongful convictions and the police’s blind faith in DNA evidence does not convince me. Don’t forget the case where a couple were nearly wrongly charged with the murder of a baby solely on DNA evidence and would certainly have been convicted if it had gone to court. Fortunately they were able to get a firm alibi and it was decided the woman’s deceased mother must have had the baby and killed it – same DNA match of course.

    I don’t think many people question the death penalty for child killers.

    Not so sure about killers of police officers, most would not object when the police were rarely armed but now they have so many armed police and they have killed so many people in doubtful circumstances – the lawyer in his flat with a shotgun surrounded by at least 50 armed police seemed completely unnecessary particularly as they refused any contact with him from his friends and family. There are other similar cases.

  55. 171
    Alex says:

    Sorry, but can’t agree with this campaign – the police in this country are far too incompetent for there to not be miscarriages of justice.

    A campaign for life meaning life would be far more appropriate – gives the innocent a chance to be exonerated at a later date, and ensures the guilty are not a threat to the public again.

    I would also question Guido’s libertarian credentials after this.

    • 181
      Joe Public says:

      And in the meantime the murder rate has tripled with on average 300 additional victims every year, a small price to pay is it not?

  56. 172
    Ichabod says:

    What’s happening in the cricket ? Sounds as though umpire Rauf (?) asked the Indian captain if he was going to appeal for a run out against Ian Bell–with the implication that he would give him out if they were. Extraordinary and indeed sounds rather devious–not least from the umpires.

  57. 184
    Steve says:

    Here,here, I demand we hang the nearest irishman, fitting them up has always been easy in the past.

    now where can we find one……

  58. 185
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Well done Dohni !!!!!

    It takes a big man to right a wrong :-)

    • 187
      Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

      That is up there with the picture of Flintoff shaking Brett Lees hand after a close england win in the 2005 ashes.

    • 288
      MrAngry61 says:

      STOP BLATHERING ABOUT CRICKET! IT’S FUCKING MADDENING!

  59. 189
    Anonymous says:

    Let’s just hang Murdoch and be done with it

  60. 194
    Brian eating muffins says:

    What annoys me most with this issue is the use of ‘celebrity victims’ to promote changes to law and stifle all rational debate.
    Some chav parent – who was not a criminologist, sociologist, lawyer or statistician before their child’s murder; who was not courted for their valueless legal opinions by MPs or editors before their hoodoo – will suddenly become an unassailable grand authority to a tabloid campaign.
    I feel your pain, sad face :( but tragedy does not equal wisdom.’ to promote changes to law and stifle all rational debate.
    Some chav parent – who was not a criminologist, sociologist, lawyer or statistician before their child’s murder; who was not courted for their valueless legal opinions by MPs or editors before their hoodoo – will suddenly become an unassailable grand authority to a tabloid campaign.
    I feel your pain, sad face :( but tragedy does not equal wisdom.

    • 253
      Anonymous says:

      We bow to your greater wisdom. They dont count as they are simply victims who have actually lost loved ones. Pathetic.

  61. 201
    Just a thought says:

    The Scots make their own laws. So is this a campaign for English Law and should the Scots have a say in it. All these heinous crime are commited in England. Scots have their fair share of nasty c u n t s but not in the same way that the English do.

  62. 202

    The analysis of polls highlights a couple of points:
    1) Analysis suggests that support for the death penalty, as with much polling, depends on the ways the question is asked. For example, rather than asking whether the dealth penalty is justified for certain crimes, ask whether a life sentence, a long sentence or capital punishment the most appropriate for the same crimes and the level of the support changes
    2) The extent of public support varies depending on when the question is asked. When polled just after a high-profile child or police murder and support will be higher than when asked at a different time

    See page 3-4 of this report: http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-056.pdf

  63. 203
    Jimmy says:

    Silly season will continue next week with a debate on abortion.

    • 221
      Anonymous says:

      Jimmy supports mass killing of potential human beings. One day abortion for no good reason will rightly be viewed as one of the most ghastly acts the human race has ever perpetrated.

      • 259
        Jimmy says:

        See Guido, baited the hook for you already. Don’t mention it. My gift to you.

        • 302
          no brainer says:

          You’re the gift that just keeps on giving, and so very ‘special’ Jimmy, plus you’re the best argument for abortion going. Now bugger off.

  64. 204
    Anonymous says:

    Hang the Murdochs. That should sort it!

  65. 218
    Timothy Evans says:

    Surely we don’t have to copy the United States even in this?

    What a good little client state the kleptocracy has made of us!

  66. 220
    well_chuffed says:

    As I well remember , even though I was only a teenager at the time , as soon as they abolished the death penalty they immediately stopped publishing the murder statistics. For those who are interested it was around 150 a year in England and Wales and had remained fairly constant for several decades. If they ever republish them (maybe they already do) it would be like the unemployment statistics , fudged to the point of oblivion.

    Just looked it up and it was Sidney SIlverman with a private members’ bill of all things that abolished it. Strangely enough the death penalty was still left in force for treason , piracy with violence , espionage and arson in her Majesty’s Dockyards. Those anomolies have since also been cleared up , just as well for Anthony Lynton Blair (possibly guilty of 3 of those). Oops , wasn’t he the one who finally sorted that out.

    If we ever hear about a private member’s Bill these days , it seems to be an exercise in kite flying. How come such a bill was used to make such a massive change to our (in)justice system ? Governments doing a bit of hiding maybe ? It wasn’t me guv. Baskets the lot of ‘em.

    • 293
      Colonel Nut. says:

      Mandelson may have been guilty of arson in Her Majesty’s Dockyards.

      • 299
        well_chuffed says:

        Come to mention it , I rather think you may be right and not only in Her Majesty’s Dockyards

  67. 223
    Cato Street Conspirator says:

    ‘Once again the public shows a two-thirds majority in favour of the death penalty for cop killers. Not because their lives are worth more than ours, it is because the police daily risk their lives to protect our lives.’

    Do me a favour. The only time most coppers risk their lives is having a dodgy kebab while they’re sitting in their patrol car. Everyone knows that, so let’s not pretend otherwise.

    • 255
      Nelson's Eye says:

      The copper who was blinded by Moat might have a different opinion

      • 404
        Cato Street Conspirator says:

        The fact that you can only think of one confirms what I said. It’s more dangerous to work on a building site than to be a copper.

  68. 227
    Axe The Telly Tax says:

    Figures from the USA (where states have removed and restored the death penalty) clearly show a substantial increase in murder rates after removal of death penalty and a substantial reduction upon restoring the death penalty.

    Hand-wringing lefties will try to use some complex reason to explain this.

    I prefer Occam’s razor :-)

    • 363
      Anonymous says:

      Stats also show a reduction in the murder rate after the legalisation of abortion.

  69. 230
    question says:

    So would the pro death lot be willing to consider t’orture as a compromise?

  70. 231
    Polly Wolly Doodle says:

    I’ve just spotted Cameron and his missus having lunch and soaking up the sun in Florence. It’s disgusting that he should be living it up in Tuscany when people are feeling such pain back home.

    • 274
      Ichabod says:

      Especially Polly when it’s Tuscany that’s involved, the preserve of afluent, lefty Guardianistas. It’s so unfair !!

  71. 234
    Gordon Brown says:

    Can we ammend the law to include bigots?

  72. 235
    50 Calibre says:

    Retribution sounds good to me…

  73. 239
    Jess The Dog says:

    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-056.pdf

    I’m intrigued by the graph on P34 which shows little relationship between executions and the homicide rate in the USA, except for a large increase from the early 60s onwards, when there is a decade without the death penalty (suspended for a few years in 70s by Supreme Court). This looks like a tempting correlation, but I suspect that the causal factors are the baby boom demographic coming of homicidal age plus urbanisation… these factors will be similar in the UK. For the US, the Great Migration has caused lasting and unprecedented social problems exacerbating those existing issues of race, recessions and poverty.

    • 248
      Axe The Telly Tax says:

      LOL. You prove my point above in post 213.

      Hey you lefty fuckwit try Occam’s razor instead of some complex bullshit.

      • 315
        Jess The Dog says:

        Maybe it’s colour TV driving people to murder. Or the Moon landings. In the UK, the homicide rate has fallen for most upper demographic groups since the 1960s … murdering is very much the sport of the underclass. Explain that, Occam.

  74. 241
    Sir Barrington Minge says:

    Sorry Guido, but in this you are wrong. The State should not have the power to take the lives of its own citizens however heinous their crimes.
    To do so puts us on a par with Iran, Saudi Arabia et al.

    • 249
      Anonymous says:

      No it doesnt and just saying so doesnt make it true.

      • 287
        Infuriated of West Mids says:

        Just saying “no it doesn’t” doesn’t make it not true either.

        I’m just sayin’……

  75. 250
    Blind leading blind says:

    An E-petition to send all the Irish home would probably be supported by the majority, but that doesn’t mean it’s right….oh!

  76. 252
    Simon says:

    “A free and sovereign nation of laws”

    But after electing treasonous government after treasonous government of EU Quislings, who does this free and sovereign nation look to for moral guidance?
    The good old US of A? The land of n*gger lynchings and drone murders of women and kids in far off places?

    Those who have never had to deal with plod looking at them like the next turkey to be stuffed for xmas will have enduring faith in British justice to get it right first time, every time. Those who have, will know that relying on our brave boys in blue for justice, requires the scales of reality plucking from their eyes.

  77. 254
    Rope supplies plc (discount for bulk purchases) says:

    Bring back hanging for treason. Politicians who sell the country out to foreign interests for financial gain to be tried first.

    • 378
      Blair and Brown - the Dynamic Duo - feeling their necks says:

      I feel weak all-of-a-sudden

  78. 257
    Handycock, No1 Trougher in Parliament says:

    Corrupt police, corrupt public sector, corrupt Lawyers and Politicians. With this lot in the decision making process, and throw in the Freemasons, do you really think reintroduction of the death penalty is a good idea? I ask the question because I know about these things intimately.

  79. 258
    Moley. says:

    Having just read that a biofuel facility in Tees side consumes 100,000 tons of grain a month, can we ask Huhne if his deranged “climate warming” policies are causing famine in Africa?

    I can’t help feeling that our local buses should be relabelled;

    “This bus is run on biofuel which is made by starving African children”

  80. 262
    John says:

    Nice over-looking of the first bit of evidence in the polling report:

    “Support for the death penalty has fallen over the decades – it used to be over 70%, these days roughly half of the population support the death penalty for “standard” murder”

    Yes the figures are different for child and police murders but the evidence actually suggests support for reinstating the death penalty is declining.

    Incidentally, surely your campaign should be called redefining justice not restoring justice? Since when was capital punishment included in any modern definition of justice?

  81. 263
    Ol' Mose says:

    All this from our host who supports the mass raping of the British economy by his spivvy pals and delights in his unfettered right to take charge of a lethal weapon whilst under the influence. Not once, but twice i believe.
    Yes Mr Fawkes, we look to you for moral lessons.

  82. 265
    HenryV says:

    It does trouble me when an easy correlation can be made between the state of discipline in schools and the withdrawal of corporal punishment. The latter never stopped the real delinquents but it deter the sheep.

  83. 266
    MacMan says:

    Death is not justice, because it’s not suffering. How can you suffer if you have a total absence of consciousness?
    Living the rest of your life in prison is justice. To know that the remainder of your existence will be spent confined, with prison officers (at best) spitting in your food, and other inmates kicking your head in when they get the chance, is suffering.
    And if you believe the “prison is like holiday camp” stuff in the tabloids, you don’t know any prison staff. As a prison officer mate of mine said “the best the like of Bellfield can hope for is that we get to him before the inmates do.” And he didn’t mean to protect him. Not that you’ll read about that in the tabloids.
    Milly Dowler’s family have to spend the rest of their lives in suffering, why shouldn’t Levi Bellfield? You want to relieve Bellfield of suffering? Then put him out of his misery with the quick painless death of capital punishment. Just don’t confuse that with justice.
    Personally I’m happier knowing that people like Bellfield will live a long shit life with the occasional kicking.

    • 270
      Alger Non says:

      MacMan says:
      July 31, 2011 at 6:01 pm

      Death is not justice, because it’s not suffering. How can you suffer if you have a total absence of consciousness?

      take your point

      Don’t all politicians have a total absence of consciousness already though?

    • 306
      Anonymous says:

      As somebody mentioned in a previous thread, that expalins why so many scum bags on death row take appeals to the wire, all that suffering consciousness.? If they were really suffering badly they’d want to end it quicker wouldn’t they? You’re argument has just been ripped to shreds. Now fuck off.

      • 408
        MacMan says:

        It’s “your argument” not “you’re argument.”

        An example of “your” would be -

        “Sorry I took so long to read your post, but I was busy fucking your mother.”

        I wouldn’t normally bother responding to someone who doesn’t have basic literacy, but I have a minute and I’m feeling charitable.

        US Correctional Facility reports show that the suicide rate amongst death row inmates is five times higher than in the regular prison population. The attempted suicide rate is extremely high amongst those awaiting execution, it’s only kept down to a 5x rate by keeping them on suicide watch.

        As you’re unable to spell “explains” (hint – it’s not “expalins”) I’m guessing you don’t have an Honours degree in Criminology, so here’s a crash course;
        Death row inmates, as the 5x successful suicide rate (and the much higher attempted suicide rate) shows, very much want to die. However they don’t want to be killed by the institution who incarcerates them. You see the psychological study of enforced containment… oh never mind. Just stick to basic grammar for now.

        Have to leave it there – call it my one act of kindness towards the illiterate for this month. Enjoy. Don’t forget to look up the big words in a dictionary. Who knows? Armed with a vocabulary, one day you might even be able to conduct an argument.

    • 339
      MrAngry61 says:

      I don’t feel that the law of the jungle in prison is the sort of deterrent that society should be applying. Life in prison is hell for the weak, but if it really was as bad as you suggest then ex-cons would be scared of doing bird, whereas they seem to view it as a necessary hazard.

  84. 268
    Colonel Nut. says:

    The death penalty should be restored for corrupt policemen,juvenile delinquents,and Keith Vaz.This would produce by example a law abiding,confident, and honest society,unafraid to walk the streets.

    • 310
      viz vaz says:

      Keith Vaz? Nope, can’t think of anybody better for the treatment, Spot on.

      • 341
        MrAngry61 says:

        Keith Vaz? Best hold an Open competition for some cruel and unusual punishments that could be used to dispatch him…

  85. 276
    Maisie says:

    Jesus I hope this country never reintroduces such a barbaric act as the death penalty.

    I hope we are more civilised than that.

    • 296
      Anonymous says:

      Piss off Masie

    • 312
      selfish bitch watch says:

      Masie you’re quite right, we’ll let many more innocents die at the hands of child killers just to ease you’re conscience. You’ve got to put yourself first in situations like this I find.

      • 387
        Anonymous says:

        The child killer has already killed the child. That’s why you execute him. So what are you talking about you complete cretin?

  86. 277
    Duncan says:

    Didn’t you use to be a libertarian? Where did that go? The question isn’t whether you think child murderers should be killed, but whether you have such confidence in the criminal justice system that you believe it’s impossible to be falsely accused or murdering a child. It’s a lot easier to appeal a verdict if you’re alive.

  87. 285
    Raving Loon says:

    Got to disagree with you on this one Guido, I would never want a government so powerful it could kill its own people.

    • 297
      turkeys do not vote for xmas says:

      All those who do not support the death penalty obviously have guilty consciences, and expect that knock on the door at any minute. Little wonder they’re so fucking shit scared of the death penalty. Has anybody ever wondered why so many corrupt and venal politicians are against the death penalty? Yeah, go figure.

    • 326
      Anonymous says:

      So would you prefer a government not as powerfull but one in which it could tell Murderers that they have been very naughty and send them to bed without supper. Would that please you muppet ?

      • 332
        Infuriated of West Mids says:

        Use of the word “muppet” = loss of argument.

        • 338
          Anonymous says:

          fuck off numptie. you’re the best argument for capital punishment so far.

          that is all

          • Infuriated of West Mids says:

            Thanks for your considered, measured reply.

          • Anonymous says:

            Why, thank you too…..numptie.

          • Infuriated of West Mids says:

            Don’t mention it, me old sweaty smeg-guzzler.

            I would dearly like to hear why I’m “the best argument for capital punishement so far”, though. Above paedophiles, murderers and rapists. Would you like to execute everyone you disagree with on a blog?

            And why don’t you come out of the shadows and give yourself a name so your intruiging and valuable posts can be recognised? Surely you can’t be ashamed of your psychotic blood-lust, can you?

      • 333
        non believer says:

        yes, because state sponsored killing and a slap on the wrist are the binary decision facing us when we consider how to deal with child murders.

        you’re the muppet here, you cretin; you can at least be thankful there’s no IQ prerequisite for this site and that you can post this kind of drivel unencumbered by logic or reason.

        twat.

  88. 289
    Gordon Brown says:

    I’m sorry, I haven’t a poo.

  89. 292
    Anonymous says:

    Should we have hung Colin Stagg?

    Do we really trust the old bill?

    • 300
      no brainer says:

      Of course we should have hung the skank just for being Colin Stagg.

    • 317
      Anonymous says:

      Why , he was found not guilty, this seems a good example of the system working. We should certainly hang the evil c unt who was subsequently convicted.

  90. 298

    Blackstone’s formulation [Revised 2011]

    “It is better that ten innocent men suffer than one guilty man escape.”

    As approved by Otto von Bismarck and Pol Pot.

    • 322
      Or to put it another way says:

      “It is better that we have have a threefold increase in the murder rate with an on average additional 300 innocent men women and children dying each year than run the risk that one innocent person may suffer a miscarriage of justice ”

      Not in my name it aint !!!!

      • 336
        Infuriated of West Mids says:

        As long as you’re happy to sign up to be the one “mistake”, then go for it.

        Otherwise, not in my name thank you very much.

      • 426

        Well, under Blair, we had the novel situation where the police, unable to catch the much cleverer villains, started to arrest the victims, thus imposing upon them a double misfortune. The victims were much easier to find, you see? And the last thing in the world that they expected was to fall under suspicion themselves, so they were much more unprepared than the perpetrators of the real crimes, who could wriggle like fuck because that is what they had experienced a lifetime of doing. Just consider how many decades will it take to re-educate Plod. If you are over forty years old, then the likelihood is that you will not see it in your lifetime. But providing we have a token fall-guy/fall-girl, why should we worry?

  91. 301
    ciconia says:

    I instinctively agree with the death penalty, not just for murder.
    Two problems-
    1. most murders are not the sadistic torturings so hyped by the press, for which there can be no forgiveness;
    2. I’d be very worried about the kind of person that will carry out the execution. We will always find someone to do it but would you want your dad doing it?
    I don’t think it’s a deterrent, just justice.

    • 319
      Anonymous says:

      Ciconia, re point 2, do you really worry about this , I mean really worry ?

      • 337
        well_chuffed says:

        As far as point 2 goes , read about Albert Pierrepoint. He hanged most of the sons of guns that were sentenced to death at the Nuremburg trials.

  92. 305
    Anonymous says:

    Coming next week on Ordure-Ordure…

    “Bring back the birch, that’ll learn ‘em…”

  93. 316
    Fabians are Evil says:

    1. If you hang a murderer he/she will never EVER be able to kill again.

    2. A would be, or potential, killer WOULD think twice if there was an ultimate penalty.

    3. The bleeding heart liberals always change their stance when it is one of their family that gets killed.

    • 411
      Andy says:

      It wouldn’t deter any murderer. Every criminal thinks they are smart enough to get away with it.

      • 418
        Numerate Pedant says:

        Or don’t care.

        Most professional criminals know that their chances of being convicted are about the same as winning the lottery.

  94. 318
    Ol' Mose says:

    Guido petitions for role as Lord High Executioner.

    Absolute blogging power corrupts, absolutely.

  95. 321
    An opponent of murder by the state says:

    Ok Guido.
    Assuming
    1. Your petition gets accepted
    2. Parliament passes a law to allow murder by the state
    are you going to be doing the killing?

    • 323
      Anonymous says:

      Re point 2 Im sure there will be a huge amount of applicants. Bring me that fat Hunt Levi Bellfield, Im up for it !!!!

      • 325
        Ol' Mose says:

        So like Levi Bellfield, you take pleasure in ending another life.

        • 327
          Anonymous says:

          I would take satisfaction in his execution yes. What you going to do about it ?

        • 328
          Anonymous says:

          i cannot believe that you think executing a convicted child killer is the moral equivilance of killing the child in the first instance. No wonder we are fucked, what an evil morality you have.

  96. 331
    eeu to me says:

    The idea of restoring justice is a great idea, but as usual the people will never be heard, only the powerful groups , like no doubt the like the one that wants to bring back hanging but calls it restore justice, we need and want a restoration in justice ,from getting clamped to getting justice for a 6year old as per Inspector Gadgets blog and ways inbetween, we know what will happen NOTHING because it doesn’t suit the more powerful people, fckin sad and dispicible.

  97. 340
    non believer says:

    For all the monkeys throwing stats around, have they considered the fact that Canada ditched the death penalty and the murder has gone down 27% since then?

    lies, damned lies etc etc.

    No hard facts regarding the deterrence issue but glad to see some morons happy to see the state kill it’s own citizens based on their gut feeling.

    • 344
      guilty as fuck says:

      I’m getting very worried about you non believer. You’ve got something very dark to hide haven’t you?

    • 362
      HenryV says:

      Are you seriously arguing potential murderers are not committing the act because they might not die for it?

      • 463
        non believer says:

        no dimwit

        I’m saying there’s no reliable proof either way on the deterrence issue and that correlation does not equal causation.

        do keep up.

        there’s even some cretin on here who’s even come up with an exact figure of murders that he’s decided would not be commited if we had the death penalty.

        with morons like that on his side I’d hope Guido would slowly become aware that he’s definitely paddling in the shallow end of the gene pool.

  98. 343
    Anonymous says:

    what about a murder clause just below the small print in your doner card
    if i am murdered iwish my killer to executed..pardoned..jailed for 5…15…50 years
    any more suggestions?

  99. 346
    Ah! Monika says:

    Billy, looks as tho you’ve gone to bed. However, just thinking about the spirit of the game: in my view Bell should have returned to the crease but offered no bat until out.
    That’s true sportsmanship. Have to look to Golf for a better example

    • 348
      Gordon's Brown says:

      Heroes or Celebrations?

    • 355
      Infuriated of West Mids says:

      I agree Monika. In my humble opinion:

      1. Bell was an idiot and took his eye off the ball (literally), although he played a stonking innings
      2. India were unsporting to take the wicket in the manner they did
      3. India were right to waive their appeal and bring Bell back on the the pitch, and they gained my complete respect for the decision they took over tea.
      4. Bell should have offered no bat on his return to the crease
      5. Bell should have been a hell of a lot more gracious to India in his post-match interview on TMS
      6. I wish Geoffrey Boycott would shut up

      Fortunately, Bell only made another 30-odd runs, and it looks like we’re going to flatten any hopes of an Indian comeback tomorrow, so hopefully it hasn’t affected the result too much.

      Still, cricket, golf and snooker are the only sports left with genuine sportsmen in them.

  100. 350
    Anonymous says:

    what about an “if i am murdered card on t’other side of your compulsary doner car
    tick as you wish>>>>> execution or..5,10,15,100 years…. with parole …. without
    parole ..remember its you thats dead.. all you have..all youve had..all you would have had is gone dicuss especially the handwringing liberal s

  101. 354
    Anonymous says:

    Vengeance isn’t justice.

    If you want to kill people, join the army. Leave the rest of us who really are against big government out of it.

    • 359
      civilising influence says:

      Justice must not only be done, but must be seen to be done. Lets’ not only hang the fuckers but film and broadcast it too.

    • 360
      Anonymous says:

      this is the 3rd attempt and im not being racist

  102. 356
    Anonymous says:

    The fact you have to use the euphemism of “justice” rather than use the term death penalty rather betrays the fact you are unsure about support and feel the need to play it down.

    You are illiberal and barbaric, more suited to a country like China. A man who complains about “press freedom” while wanting a government to be able to kill its citizens shows just how skewed and sick your priorities are.

    You may revel in death, but the rest of us have evolved.

    • 364
      Anonymous says:

      Oh gawd, another precious little flower. What fucking planet are you on?

      • 383
        Anonymous says:

        I’m fine – free of the severe psychological flaws that result in salivating over people being killed.

        • 440
          Realist says:

          Luckily there are people who will protect you from the ones with real psychological flaws.

    • 365
      Myra Hindley says:

      I certainly agree with those sentiments.

    • 369
      Ol' Mose says:

      In Guido’s world, if the stats and ad revenues say it’s so, who are we to argue against the realism of a price on life, as on everything else?

  103. 366
    Anonymous says:

    Actually mose my friend its not me you or your family need worry about its folk like Bellfield. You do understand that dont you?

    • 371
      Ol' Mose says:

      The forces of law and order are unable to protect me and mine against rogue forces like Levi Bellfield, but i live in hope that they are able to protect me from blood thirsty Robespierres like you.

  104. 375
    Green Sheep says:

    All those muslims Labour have imported over the last 13 years may end up proving useful for the yes camp if we ever manage to get a referendum on capital punishment.

    • 400
      Allan u at t'bar? says:

      all those muslims will be more interested in banning beer and cutting the hands off all beer drinkers

      • 425
        Imperfect but Essentially Nice Daddy. says:

        Went to a wedding once and shared a table with a lot of Asian peeps who were Muslims. When I went to the bar for a round of cokes, almost all of them quietly asked me if I could slip a bacardi into theirs. I brought back the tray and they were anxious to know which one was theirs. I told them they were all the same. Lots of guilty winks.

        Hypocritical? No – just a bit naughty and I am sure that they prayed for forgiveness at the mosque. And I confessed my naughtiness to the priest on Saturday and I knew he was smiling when he forgave me for my naughty sins.

        We are all God’s children!

        • 497
          iranian woman says:

          there is no god foolish boy

          you were lucky they did not throw acid in your face

  105. 377
    confused onlooker says:

    100,000 signatures forces a Commons debate? Surely forcing a referendum would be much more useful?

  106. 380
    joescotus says:

    4th fuckin attemt guido
    on reverse side of comp0ulsory doner card
    my killer should be executed….given 5 ..10..60 years slobberd over by hand wringing lib ….fuck it you know tne memem.

    • 429
      Herb Ashus-Border says:

      Personally, I would like a new law to insist that everybody who gets to vote in a British election has to pass a spelling test.

      (I would go for a grammar exam an all but I am not sure what is a split bleeding infinitive).

  107. 385
    Dick Robinson says:

    I hope this Restore Justice campaign is more wide ranging and not just about the death penalty.

    I am in favour of capital punishment IN THEORY. In practice, I don’t have enough faith or trust in the competence of the state or the judiciary to support it.

    I do however think that sentences for violent offences need to be much harsher and that prison needs to be less of a warehouse and more of a workhouse.

    • 416
      Anonymous says:

      Just so you know 300 additional people die on average every year so you can think that way. Way to go !

      • 430
        Visiting Professor says:

        You have presented no supporting evidence for that statement in your thesis. I am unable to approve the award of a Doctorate on this occasion.

        • 462
          Quack Professor Watch says:

          If you could be bothered to read earlier threads you will find links providing plenty of evidence for these stats.

  108. 386
    Anonymous says:

    Guido’s probably the only person to watch 10 Rillington Place and cheer when Timothy Evans was killed.

    • 396
      Anonymous says:

      Whereas you cheer from the rafters that 300 victims per year on average have died to keep your 100% certainty that there has been no person executed by mistake. Not in my name !

  109. 390

    Please oh please can someone hang this deranged fucker for pity’s sake!

    http://tinyurl.com/44aznvb

  110. 398
    Naughtius Maximus says:

    The means of death is important too, of course.

    Good old-fashioned crucifixion for child-murderers, nothing less well do. Anything else would be gay. If we had seen Hindley & Bradey get a fucking good crucifixion, we would be a better country today. Soham may never have happened.

    Nail some sense into ‘em.

  111. 401
    wolvreen says:

    Following hanging, the other populist idea is to ban homosexuality.
    Parliament saves us from the mongos who read NOTW, watch Piers Morgan and Xfactor.
    You would hang people on the evidence of our lazy corrupt police/cps?
    Guido why don’t you just join the tea-party?

  112. 402
    Anjem Choudary says:

    Excellent, one step closer to Sharia,

  113. 405

    My plea is in consideration of Libertarianism, the only hope, in my opinion, for the future.

    In the times of Margaret Thatcher’s government, I often heard the description of the Conservative Party, which at this time I supported, as being “the hang them and flog them brigade.”

    This description gained in currency until the Conservatives became to be regarded as unsupportable and the door was left open for Blair and his disastrous three terms.

    My concern is that the best literature we can offer in support of our views is still a novel. The work really needs to be done to set our case out in formal terms as Hayek, Popper, Berlin and others did which paved the way for MT.

    This understandably hot potato will detract from the main effort and could even destabilise it, before it can become properly established.

    That would be more than a pity. It would be an absolute tragedy.

    I beg that you put your heads in front of your hearts.

  114. 406
    Anonymous says:

    Thou shall not kill. A Christian view I’ll admit.

    • 417
      God commands murderers are put to death says:

      And what does the text say next…..go on look it up and report back asap

      • 450
        Cruel and Unusual Punishments says:

        Still cannot settle on a suitable one for Brown Balls and Bliar

    • 468
      The Golem says:

      Thou shalt not murder makes more sense in today’s world.

  115. 409
    Andy says:

    Well for starters I believe you can’t be in the EU with the death penalty on your books.

    But more to the point, you would need – like the did when it was on the books – every juror coming in with a Guilty vote. That is virtually impossible. Loads of jurirs would automatically chuc-in a Not Guilty vote if they thought that the person would hang – I would and so would most people I know, irrespective of the evidence against them and even if it meant an obviously guilty killer ended up walking free. And before anyone starts about not knowing, a total of a dozen soldiers from my regiment were murdered by the IRA, 5 of which were friends of mine

    Looking at the polling figures, I reckon you’d be hard pushed to even get a majority verdict if you brought it back on the books. Then there would be other countries who would then refuse to extradite people to us if they were wanted for murder.

    Capital punishment panders to one of the most disgusting aspects of people – vengeance.

  116. 410
    To think I used to love Al-Jazeera... says:

    Interesting arguments for both sides – though the latest problems with the legal system make it unsurprising that this issue’s been brought up. I like to look at both sides of the debate before making a judgement, as I’ve learnt from reading this blog for a long time. But let me ask all you death penalty supporters these questions.

    1) If you kill a murderer, how does that not make you a killer yourself?

    2) If you wish death upon another person, how does that make you a better person than a criminal who wished death on another and is being killed for that reason?

    3) If ‘vengeance is justice’, then what do you mean by ‘vengeance’? Can we say that Breivik’s killing of Labour youths in Norway was ‘vengeance’ for the government’s allowing of immigration into that country? If that’s what it means, are you guys saying it was right for 60-90 youths to die that day?

    4) If by definition, a death penalty makes executions legal, then, on paper, how is that different to the Germans making it legal for themselves to execute millions of people in death camps during World War II?

    Apologies if any of these have already been asked, chaps, but can anyone give a straight answer? Anyone?

  117. 414
    City of Vice says:

    I’m not for the death penalty as the state is corrupt and lawyers (and the legal system in general) are shite. There are too many bent cops around for them to be favoured with special treatment.

    However, I’m all for an armed citizeny possessed of the right to defend your person, property and liberty. If someone breaks into your home you should be able to shoot them dead, few questions asked, little or no paperwork. Criminals wasted in the course of committing their crimes are of little concern to me.

  118. 419
    Koba says:

    A sturdy hook or eye-bolt fixed to the ceiling of every lifer’s cell would solve a few problems for us

  119. 420
    awardwinningscoop says:

    In other news

    the police are shown to be thorougly corrupt by the phone hacking – guido trusts them to provide evidence to kill people lol whoa there guido mate too much drugs I think

  120. 421
    citybcn says:

    Just because polls say that people want it doesn’t make it a good thing. Somebody voted for teaparty candidates in America and look where that has got them.

  121. 423
    Billy Bowden is the WORST umpire ever! says:

    Just as well there’s no death penalty for being run out in a cricket match…otherwise there wouldn’t have been much point in a retrial, would there?

  122. 426
    Another Engineer says:

    So, if I’ve had enough of life, I’m not allowed get the help of someone like Dignitas to end it, but if I could somehow go out and kill someone, I can get the state to do it instead? Bonus.

  123. 428
    Anonymous says:

    Twat

  124. 432
    Anonymous says:

    Soapy tit wank

  125. 433
    Wm T Sherman says:

    But if you don’t kill them, how will they ever learn?

  126. 434
    Hopscotch says:

    I robbed a store today. The cops are coming to rob my house in retribution.

    I raped a girl today. The cops are going to rape me in retribution.

    I killed someone today. The cops are coming to kill me in retribution.

  127. 435
    not a machine says:

    In my opinion I would think a few other matters would need to be discussed ifrst before any law to bring back capital punishment , like if as a society we are descending into a more malevolent way of living , given the sort of gang crimes we are seeing it would perhaps send a message to them , but most people you speak to , seem to have uploaded some sort of liberal aversion program , although when you enquire a little deeper , you find them not so sure . The main one is of course murdering the innocent person , next comes rotting in prison is far worse , theres is then the judgements about how mentally feeble/gulity they were and perhaps after that a right to repentence and remorse as displaying the success of prison in rehabilitation.
    we know re offending rates are not so good , and guns are on the streets so it may be this a just matter of time , rather than outright rejection.
    hanging is the cleanest method , although even then it is a professional science.

    The calls for tax cuts obviously put some heat on the budget , and harriet thinks foreign spending is just fine (eh) , so plan b seems to be labours only card , I am not so sure even tax cuts will deliver the growth , and so I think he has to stick with the budget at least till christmas . I dont like how the economy is structured at all , but this has been going on for many years now and there are certainly some economists who have been either reading it wrong or missing some of the new way it operates. The analysis of prolonged recovery is in my view correct , which perhaps gives an oppertunity to both sort things like housing and industry out , although with boris island being bandied about again , I despair as its pretty obvious flying will just help london .
    the problem for the budget is, as the lives on personal credit reveal the true extent of what the ruins miracle growth was based upon , and that making do is hitting a much larger swathe than understood . looking back I perhaps might have cut harder just down to essential front line , and asked the public to get on with it , it is a dissapointement that we cannot see much of the deficet reduction . I still think there is somthing different about the economy that tax cuts will not solve and I am not sure if some crunches arnt further ahead because manufacturing has been so run down.

    notice shad health sec wasnt available , so another pixie story then with no responsibility let loose , are they on one a weekend now ?

  128. 436
    Jemima Clarkson says:

    Thank fuck that there are still a few people in this country who can still think for themselves and openly criticise this bullshit idea on the proposers own blog.

    I might be wrong, but it looks like a majority here are AGAINST the idea.

    Never mind Guido. I’m sure some of Murdoch toerags will run with it to take the heat off their own improprieties.

    • 500
      Tony Blair, messiah & ex-pm says:

      Good girl Jemima, you’re doing exactly what I told you.

      We don’t want me executed for causing 100,000 deaths and being involved in rendition and torture, do we?

  129. 438
    Britain's Biggest Mass Killer says:

    “It is believed that Pierrepoint executed at least 433 men and 17 women, including six U.S. soldiers at Shepton Mallet and some 200 Nazi war criminals after World War II. He asserted in his autobiography never to have given a precise number of his executions, not even when giving testimony to the Royal Commission on Capital Punishment of 1949. A figure of 608 people was given in the credits at the end of the film Pierrepoint, although there is no reference for it.”

    Wikipedia

  130. 441
    No to death penalty, Yes to petition says:

    I am very much opposed to the death penalty for the usual reasons given by objectors, many of which have already been listed by previous posters. This particular post is not intended to defend this position or to argue that people taking another stance are wrong.

    Instead I’d like to express my concern about the disconnect between parliament and the electorate despite the fact that in this particular case it favours what I believe in. It is symptomatic of a ruling elite that thinks it knows what is good for us. I am not so conceited as to believe here are no people who might know what is good for me, but I doubt many of them are to be found in Westminster.

    Consequently, although not in favour of any petition to restore the death penalty I am actively considering supporting such a petition simply to highlight further how dismissive the government will be of public opinion if it does not fit with what the government wants to do anyway.

    I am curious if any others might be thinking similarly.

    It occurs to me that although I would not like to have the death penalty back, if we were living in a country where the wishes of the majority were genuinely met then there are potentially many other positive outcomes that could make up for that.

    A note to other anti-death penalty people who think this is a dangerous position to take: I am principally opposed to the death penalty because of what it makes of ourselves. I have no interest in the criminals. Also, if life imprisonment actually meant life then I think the sensibilities of victim’s families would be served much more justly. A society that does not want to kill legally, despite huge provocation, is a society that little bit closer to considering itself civilised. I have always believed this to be true. But surely this is only true when the majority actually hold that belief? In recent years, I have come to worry that a society finessed out of its majority position by the votes of a few dozen parliamentarians cannot really make this claim. I think it really is the case that as a nation we no longer believe in slavery, we think men and women are equals, we don’t think people should be disadvantaged because of skin colour or religious belief. These (and many other ideals) are real tenets of our society but perhaps we are not there yet with the death penalty. I am entirely optimistic that such enlightenment will be a common one in time, but I suspect it needs to be arrived at rather than coerced.

  131. 442
    albacore says:

    This debate is absurd. It elevates the murderer into a special case, elite component of society.
    The state already condones killing by the million through abortions and the casual despatching of the weak, old and helpless by the NHS; and in unjustifiable military interventions.
    Still, it’s a useful party trick to play every now and again. At least it diverts attention away from the state’s genocidal intentions against the entire British people.

  132. 443
    John Hare says:

    Does “Police” include special constables, PCSOs, and memmbers of the public going to the assistance of the police? And, if not, why not?
    Does “Police” include the British Transport Pollice, Ministry of Defence Police, Mersey Tunnels Police, Wandsworth Parks Police, Royal Military Police? Are Prison Officers to be excluded?

  133. 446
    eeu to me says:

    If you ever do an e-petition “where life means life” and get rid of the !uman rites laws that slotgob brought in , then I will have a say, I want the crap who kills and has gone through a court of 12 good and true citizens to suffer incarceration as long as they live.

  134. 447
    Taxfodder says:

    Wrong again Guido, the population IS NOT in favour of the Death Penalty.

    Look to your your own blog readers, they agree, it is a bad proposal offering no social benefits and no deterrent.

    Your opening justifications are based on flawed half arsed data cooked up to suit the argument.

    Your proposal is shit!

    • 451
      Scrounge says:

      One month of open debate ahead of a referendum would knock this idea on its head.

      Thankfully the vast majority of the planet’s citizens are NOT interested in murdering their fellow citizens. As we have seen in the last week, it takes a special kind of crackpot to propose and go through with cold blooded executions.

      I am disappointed in Guido for expounding his surplus population notions and enccouraging the idea. Perhaps he has spent too much time in his counting house?

  135. 448

    If capital punishment worked, why do countries that have used it for millennia (e.g. Iran and China) still have to use it?

  136. 449
    watson says:

    Bringing back judicial murder is about as clever as stoning to death in public i.e always enough idiots to back it

  137. 453
    Sir William Waad says:

    One definition of ‘the state’ is “that organisation which reserves to itself the use of violence.”

  138. 454
    Richard Patient says:

    Guido

    I thought you were a libertarian, not an authoritarian.

    My objection to hanging is that it won’t work. Anyone who has been on a jury will know that most compromise of lots of wishy-washy liberals – none of whom will convict if they think the death penalty is an option.

    You are wrong on this occasion. Sorry.

  139. 456
    cuffleyburgers says:

    Sorry Guido, not with you on this one, I don’t agree that giving the state powers of life and death will improve my life or anyone elses

  140. 458
    Old Tory says:

    Grubby state killing… no thank you.

  141. 459
    Timothy Evans says:

    Capital punishment never did me any harm.

  142. 466
    Baroness Helena Handcart, QC says:

    Paul,

    Please stop before you make a fool of yourself and lose your hard-won credibility. This country specialises in miscarriages of justice, and innocent people will be hanged if capital punishment is brought back, as has happened in the past. You can whip your intolerant constituency into a frenzy about cop killers and child murderers getting their just desserts if you like but killing 20 or 100 such monsters doesn’t make it OK to have the odd mistake along the way. Fatal mistake too, which is what you are making. Stop being a braying bar-room bore and a fuckin’ eejit and get back to tormenting the political classes. That is your calling.

    • 508
      To think I used to love Al-Jazeera... says:

      “This country specialises in miscarriages of justice, and innocent people will be hanged if capital punishment is brought back, as has happened in the past”

      (nods head in agreement)

      The possibility of death does not guarantee that the amount of cases where miscarriages of justice occur will fall, as at least one person on this page has argued.

      A person in any job system, whose human capital is lacking, doesn’t just have their HC spontaneously increase just because the stakes are raised. A person who lacks skill at their job remains lacking skill at their job. We can apply that principle to the justice system, with or without capital punishment.

  143. 469
    Richie says:

    As an ex copper who saw a bit over the decades I am 100% anti death penalty. Our system of justice is imperfect and there are mistakes. Often. Mostly in favour of the defendant but some in favour of the prosecution. Look at the Birmingham and Guildford so called pub bombers. My moral value system is one that sees human life as sacred. All human life. Without exception. It is not in my power to end a human life without moral consequences. Nor is it within anyone elses. I cannot defer the killing of someone I want vengence from to an executioner. My government is an extension of me. I do not want them to end life on my behalf. Sentencing is often too weak and life sentences not being served is an area that can be improved greatly. I also think we need to adopt degrees of murder. Brady and Hyndley are far worse in their offending than a 80 year old man who suffocates his terminally ill wife. A terroist on a bus is far worse than a person who rises up after a long period of domestic violence and kills their violent partner. All are wrong but the degree of wrongness is important. Justice is too important to a civilised society to allow medieval punishments. Countries that have capital punishments are less evolved and less humane than those that do not. The barabric and inhuman practices in America are just plain daft. Along with being morally reprehensible. A bit like their gun laws. No to this unthought out and retrograde petition. Long may the politicians of the UK exercise political power with the moral authority they have since the death penalty was ended in Britain.

  144. 470
    Anonymous says:

    I believe that it was Aristotle who said that ‘The Law is reason, without emotion’ or words to that effect at least. The law isn’t perfect but it’s the least worst option we have.

    The desire for revenge or retribution is a normal gut instinct of the human animal. But it has no place in law. That way madness lies. Our ability to be humane is what makes us human.
    We can’t complain about the barbaric aspects of Sharia law or the way some backward countries choose to interpret it (There’s nothing in the Koran about stopping women from driving. Have they confused Muhamet with Jeremy Clarkson?) and then ask to bring back Capital punishment. That would be the ultimate hypocrisy.
    It’s like stepping back a hundred years. It’s from a simpler less enlightened time and has no place in the modern world. Any educated person should feel the same.
    The argument trotted out ‘you’d feel different if it were one of yours’ may well be true. The law is in place to take decision making away and given to an objective and learned third party with no emotional involvement. This idea of victims or their families choosing the fate of their perpetrators is just too Sharia for my taste. It’s a medieval concept which should have died out centuries ago.
    Letting the public have their say is no bad thing in and of itself, but more plebiscites and referenda opens the door to nasty debates like this which should have no place in a civilised society.
    As world class as our law and police force are, there will still be bad apples and human error. The law or the state should have no right or privilege to deprive people of their lives. Under these proposals ‘cop killer’ Derek Bentley would still be executed.
    Many crimes come from a place of nihilism. Criminals don’t care about the world or their victims. To a person indifferent to consequences, the death penalty is no deterrent. Executing a hardened criminal would hurt their family more than the criminal himself. Assuming they aren’t accessories to his crimes, why should they suffer?
    We should be improving sentencing, punishing the unrepentant, helping rehabilitation, assessing individuals on their merits or lack of, as appropriate. We should not be lashing out and killing like animals. We need to improve education. Pupils need to be taught ethics and philosophy, respect for the law and to appreciate the consequences of their actions. It would reduce criminality and raise the intellectual debate so we would have neither rhyme nor reason to even have this idiotic discussion.
    If you seriously want to see a return to capital punishment in this country then you must either be a child, a simpleton or a fool.

  145. 472
    Westminster Gossip says:

    7 seconds on the gallows or a lifetime loss of liberty!

    I am not squeamish about the death penalty and in some cases where the cruelty and level of intention to take life is beyond doubt – I am morally and in principle in favour of the ultimate sentence. However, given the lurid and often distorted media coverage of murder trials I have little faith in our judicial process to get it right every time.

    Another key worry is the jury. If they absolutely knew a guilty verdict would send the defendant to his/her death juries might look for reasons to acquit! Furthermore, women would be charged with lesser offences as prosecutors would fear a public backlash against sending women offenders to their death.

    Lastly, I believe life should mean life in prison if a defendant has intentionally taken another human beings life. In such circumstances, I would far rather the perpetrator suffer the loss of liberty for a lifetime than the freedom they would get from 7 seconds on the gallows!

  146. 474
    DisgustedOfMitcham2 says:

    “Having the death penalty for cop killers will make criminals fear the consequences and give extra legislative protection to the police beyond a stab vest.”

    I remember when Guido used to brag about “evidence-based blogging”. Well, those days are dead and buried, aren’t they? Guido, you do realise that there is absolutely zero evidence that having the death penalty is any kind of deterrent, don’t you?

  147. 475
    Job Knockey says:

    Above are some of the best arguments against the death penalty I have ever read. Not quite what Guido expected I suspect.

    High fives all round.

  148. 481
    Mr Black says:

    The death sentence is not a detterent. People either do not consider the cosequences of their actions, or believe that they will get away with the crime.

  149. 482
    What Poll was that then...? says:

    I haven’t seen one comment in support of State-sponsored revenge murder. Do you read your comments Guido old chap?

    You’ve got this one dead wrong. Butt out and stick to tripping up crooked politicos.

  150. 483
    DJ says:

    Even if the death penalty was reinstated, it would never be applied. CPS would see to that.

    In fact, if you want a campaign that will have real results and do something about child killers, I would suggest looking at some of the CPS’s funny tactics over bringing certain people to prosecution.

    It really is quite alarming how many children have been killed because the CPS declined to prosecute someone for an earlier charge of child sexual assault and GBH.

    We talk about CRB checks etc, but, in many cases, the serious criminals that have attacked and murdered children have been known by the police prior to their “ultimate offence” and the problem has been that the CPS has refused to prosecute.

  151. 484
    Anonymous says:

    idiotic idea ..

  152. 485
    Civil Servant says:

    You’ll be pleased to hear that Nick Griffin is supporting your campaign – hooray for you!

  153. 486
    Mark Wouters says:

    Hello,
    The Dynamic Duo in No 10 are” Dicks without Pricks”,we All know that theyre All mouth and no trousers,Including William hague .
    They think theyre the Bees knees but ,in reality theyre Nowt.
    Lets Laugh while they use the Eton Learning curve to screw themselves sensless,as they will not be there much longer.
    What will they blame it all on next ,???? I wonder!

  154. 488
    Dudley Sharp says:

    Moral/Ethical Support for the Death Penalty
    Dudley Sharp

    It appears that the majority populations of all countries support the death penalty for some crimes. (1)

    They find the death penalty moral and just.

    The foundation for the moral/ethical support of the death penalty is much more convincing than for its opposition.

    “Moral/ethical Death Penalty Support: Christian and secular Scholars”
    http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2009/07/death-penalty-support-modern-catholic.html

    Christianity and the death penalty
    http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/DP.html#F.Christianity

    Catholic and other Christian References: Support for the Death Penalty,
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2006/10/12/catholic-and-other-christian-references-support-for-the-death-penalty.aspx

    OTHER MORAL CONSIDERATIONS

    “Killing Equals Killing: The Amoral Confusion of Death Penalty Opponents”
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/02/01/murder-and-execution–very-distinct-moral-differences–new-mexico.aspx

    “The Death Penalty: Neither Hatred nor Revenge”
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/07/20/the-death-penalty-neither-hatred-nor-revenge.aspx

    “The Death Penalty: Not a Human Rights Violation”
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2006/03/20/the-death-penalty-not-a-human-rights-violation.aspx

    “Physicians & The State Execution of Murderers: No Ethical/Medical Dilemma”
    http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2009/10/physicians-state-execution-of-murderers.html

    In addition, innocents are better protected with the death penalty.

    The Death Penalty: Saving Innocent Lives

    Of all human endeavors that put innocents at risk, is there one with a better record of sparing innocent lives than the US death penalty?Unlikely.

    1) “The Death Penalty: More Protection for Innocents”
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/07/05/the-death-penalty-more-protection-for-innocents.aspx

    2) Opponents in capital punishment have blood on their hands, Dennis Prager, 11/29/05, http://townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2005/11/29/opponents_in_capital_punishment_have_blood_on_their_hands

    The false innocence claims by anti death penalty activists are legendary. Some examples:

    3) “The Innocent Executed: Deception & Death Penalty Opponents”
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/10/08/the-innocent-executed-deception–death-penalty-opponents–draft.aspx

    4) The 130 (now 139) death row “innocents” scam
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/03/04/fact-checking-issues-on-innocence-and-the-death-penalty.aspx

    5) “A Death Penalty Red Herring: The Inanity and Hypocrisy of Perfection”, Lester Jackson Ph.D.,
    http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=102909A

    6) Sister Helen Prejean & the death penalty: A Critical Review”
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/05/04/sister-helen-prejean–the-death-penalty-a-critical-review.aspx

    7) “At the Death House Door” Can Rev. Carroll Pickett be trusted?”
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/01/30/fact-checking-is-very-welcome.aspx

    8) “Cameron Todd Willingham: Another Media Meltdown”, A Collection of Articles
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/categories/Cameron%20Todd%20Willingham.aspx

    Deterrence

    Of course the death penalty deters.

    All prospects of a negative outcome deter some. It is a truism. The death penalty, the most severe of criminal sanctions, is the least likely of all criminal sanctions to violate that truism.

    1) 27 recent studies finding for deterrence, Criminal Justice Legal Foundation
    http://www.cjlf.org/deathpenalty/DPDeterrence.htm

    2) “Deterrence & the Death Penalty: A Reply to Radelet and Lacock”
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/07/02/deterrence-and-the-death-penalty-a-reply-to-radelet-and-lacock.aspx

    3) “Death Penalty, Deterrence & Murder Rates: Let’s be clear”
    http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2009/03/death-penalty-deterrence-murder-rates.html

    4) This is out of date, but corrects a number of the misconceptions about deterrence.
    “Death Penalty and Deterrence”
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2006/03/20/the-death-penalty-as-a-deterrent–confirmed–seven-recent-studies-updated-61204.aspx

    5) “The Death Penalty: More Protection for Innocents”
    http://homicidesurvivors.com/2009/07/05/the-death-penalty-more-protection-for-innocents.aspx

    FOOTNOTE
    “Death Penalty Support Remains Very High: USA & The World”
    http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2009/07/death-penalty-polls-support-remains.html

  155. 491
    Jeremy Ryan says:

    You bloodthirsty little b’stard

  156. 492
    Anonymous says:

    Not in my name! Given the justice systems propensity for f*cking things up how many innocent people have to be killed before it’s thought something is wrong – or do a few ‘mistakes’ encourage les autres?

  157. 498
    By Hook Or By Crook says:

    Shall we hang them publicly from cranes as in Iran, or shall we hang them from goalposts, as in Afghanistan?

  158. 503
    simple-minded liberal hand-wringer says:

    Come out on the streets people, let’s stand against this monstrous proposal.

    All together now…

    “What do we want?”

    “alive murderers”

    “when do we want them?” …

  159. 509
    How random... says:

    Your categories seem somewhat arbitrary Guido – are child and cop killers the only categories that rile you? Soldiers also put their lives on the line for us – but they’re not worth the same as a copper? I’ll support your campaign if we’re all allowed to be as selective and arbitrary as you have been. I’d be like to see drink-drivers – we all know someone, don’t we? – given the death penalty where they have killed as a result of their (clearly pre-meditated) action.

  160. 511

    “When the public are asked about the death penalty the results have consistently shown a majority in favour”

    Well, most people polled were in favour of AV till anyone actually started campaigning for it and they realised what it would mean. Where to start – the Guilford 4, Birmingham 6? etc and even your own reference article shows the “overwhelming support” for the death penalty to be just hovering over 51% and in at least one poll < 50% – how is that consistently in favour…?
    The entire article is thus based on a lie.

    Peados are sick in the head and want to have sex with children. Having had this sex generally they must then silence their victims and the most simple way is to kill them. What evidence is there that they would be detered by the death penalty? After all it is a fact that a lot of criminals (and certainly the ones that get caught) are not actually very bright. If they could think out the consequences of their actions …

    If there isn't any then you are just demonising peados – okay, that's not difficult as they are fairly close to Satan – but I think your motive is more to do with whipping up hysteria and scapegoating. There will always be a crowd for a hanging – that is after all the central premise of most of this blog… but taking it as far as real hanging is a little much. You probably think whipping up lynch mobs is innocent but I believe at least a dozen innocent people have been attacked by lynch mobs who believed they were attacking Maxine Carr…?

    Cop killers? Well, wasn't Derek Bentley (eventually pardoned) notoriously not that bright either…? He knew of the death penalty but both he and his mate went out that night with a gun. Come to that the death penalty was still in force when Hindley and Brady committed their murders – it was a pure quirk of fate that it happened to come into force actually during their trial.

    Life should mean life for murder maybe but even if we had death would Ian Brady have swong? Probably not …he's in a mental institution for a reason and he'd probably have got off on mental health grounds. Myra Hindley maybe. But her long incareration was a much better punishment for her crimes. If she'd have been hanged she might have been forgotten about but her endless appeals for parole that she was never going to get were actually much better punishment as she failed every time.

    There was also the amusement of her using her manipulation skills on do-gooders and reducing them to a laughing stock when they deserved it… proving no life is pointless. I think there was something positive about the public and media watching her life and death inside and her pleas for mercy being constantly turned down – as if she'd have ever been able to walk a street again anyway even if she'd been released under a false identity.

    And whoever said "It’s ironic that the type who is invariably against the death penalty is very often the same who is for abortion" clearly hasn't read Pope John Paul II's encyclical Evangelium Vitae.

    "Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity with the dignity of the human person. Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm – without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself – the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."

    I know my Catholicism is a bit rusty but I do believe Popes are not known for his pro-choice views.

    Then again it's the silly season – you've got to publish something…

  161. 512
    Paul Parkinson says:

    I am usually part of the silent majority but this is one thing I have very strong views on. The reintroduction of the Death Penalty is something I can never agree to, irrespective of the crime and this is for many reasons.

    The simplest one is that it is impossible to release an innocent dead man.

    To that end I have set up a counter-petition to the UK Government titled “Do NOT restore Capital Punishment” which they say will be live on the petitions site in a few days.

    As and when it goes live can I ask all readers on this site who do NOT want it to happen to sign this petition and re-post, blog and otherwise get this message out.

    We, the silent majority, do NOT want people put to death in our name.

  162. 513

    Also, while it’s still bigger than it was in the 1950s, isn’t the murder rate at a 12 year low?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/20/murder-rate-lowest-12-years

  163. 514
    TestTube Terry says:

    Look, just so its clear, to let all you whining pussies who seem to want to alow dogscum like the murderers of baby Peter go free, just for you, to absolve you of your guilt, ill hang the fuckers myself so you dont have to.
    Hows that for an offer?
    Now fuck off back to your liberal world of cheek turning and forgiveness whilst someone else punches you in it.


Seen Elsewhere

Guido’s Column | Sun
NUT’s Loony Defence of Status Quo | Jago Pearson
A Dozen Reasons to Be Cheerful | John McTernan
Political Bloggers Are Equal Opportunities Attackers | ConHome
Michael Gove Should Resign | Conservative Women
Sarah Wollaston’s Naming and Shaming of Bloggers | LibDemVoice
Fraser Nelson: Put Your Money on Ed Miliband to Win | Guardian
Guido Fawkes is Too Aggressive | The Times
Ditch Tobacco Plain Packaging | Grassroots Conservatives
What Farage, Boris and Rob Ford Have in Common | William Walter
Labour Spell New Adviser’s Name Wrong | ITV


new-advert
Guido-hot-button (1) Guido-hot-button (1)


Rod Liddle on the loony UN sexism special rapporteur:

“There is more sexism in Britain than in any other country in the world, according to a mad woman who has been sent here by the United Nations.

Rashida Manjoo is a part-time professor of law at Cape Town University in the totally non-sexist country of South Africa (otherwise known as Rape Capital Of The World).

Mrs Magoo has been wandering around with her notebook and is appalled by the sexist “boys’ club” culture here, apparently.

I don’t doubt we still have sexism in the UK. But is it worse than in, say, Saudi Arabia, d’you think, honey-lamb? Or about 175 other countries? Get a grip, you doolally old bat.”



orkneylad says:

What’s he been doing FFS, mining bitcoins?


Tip off Guido
Web Guido's Archives

Subscribe me to:






RSS




AddThis Feed Button
Archive


Labels
Guido Reads