Yes To Vaguer Votes
The Yes campaign broadcast that is going out tonight consists of slightly odd-looking LibDem types annoyingly screaming through megaphones into people’s faces. It pretty much sums up their entire campaigning style.
It’s notable that they don’t even try to explain how their complex system works or how it would make centrist MPs, like the LibDems, work any harder. They are the ones that will benefit with AV as they are naturally the second preference choice of most Labour and Tory voters. But they’re hardly going to cough that this late in the game.
The Indy have regurgitated a Yes press release this morning “revealing” that the No team has a fair sprinkling of Tories among its staff, yet fail to note the senior Labour players. It’s hardly a surprise that the Tories are on board given which way the parties are split on the issue and it’s not as if they tried to hide them. Campaign chairman Matthew Elliot and Finance Director Charlotte Vere even popped up in their broadcast last night:
The Yes campaign is a LibDem front, funded by LibDem donors and reliant on LibDem supporters. Pushing Labour’s Jessica Asato out as fig leaf is never going to disguise that.
Have they disclosed there doners and intrests yet?
mARCUS BrIGSTOCK IS A TOSSER
One person, one vote, counted once.
Simples.
It verked for me!
Wrong, Hitler you where selected by Hindenburg to be Chancellor. Although you where steadily gaining seats and votes year after year and it would of been a inevitably.
Effectively you got in as the result of coalition as Hindenburg tried to buy off your supporters and isolate you from your powerbase.
You had PR voting you silly old Nazi. That’s how you got in with 33.1% of the vote.
Even the ‘Blair failure’ of 2005 got more than that.
In the last elections in Germany before the Nazis, Thälmann, leader of the communists said
“A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler; a vote for Hitler is a vote for war.”
That was the last recorded time a socialist/communist got something 100% right.
“There’s no money left”.
Lib Dems “are naturally the second preference choice of most Labour and Tory voters”
Say what??????
One person one vote counts once is how “Complex” AV works.
Could Guido be “Dr” Ian in disguise?
No it isn’t. Some people will have first second and third votes counted, others only have one vote counted and have none of their other votes counted at all…. and could still lose.
AV is not one person one vote counted once
Everyone’s votes are counted the same number of times. How is a person supposed to vote for a candidate who’s been eliminated? Do you lot even understand run-off voting?
do you need help Billy?
Yes – two weeks ago.
Guido what planet are you on?
The Liberals are not the second preference choice of most tory voters. That position is held by UKIP not that a Tory MP would cough that one up.
A vote for Yes to AV is a vote for UKIP.
in the current state of affairs UKIP aren’t often third. their 2000 if-they’re-lucky gets absorbed by someone else earlier on in the counting.
But we are not talking about the current state of affairs. We are talking about who most Tories would have their Alternative vote and that would be UKIP and not the Liberals that Guido has said.
Guido is being very devious when he says the AV would take Liberal votes from the Tories.
That would only happen when UKIP gets more votes than conservative (in a particular round where one of those two gets eliminated).
my point about “2000″ is that ukip are likely to be eliminated first, so conservative “other preferences” couldnt got to ukip
Correct sockpuppet. Most second and third choice votes for UKIP would never ever be counted due to UKIP being eliminated by those rounds.
However second and third choices for the mainstream parties would be counted. So this system artificially props up the mainstream parties at the expense of the smaller parties, by leaching the support from supporters of those smaller parties.
Unless there is a massive sea-change in behaviour and the smaller parties’ supporters only rank the smaller parties and do not vote for any of the mainstream? I realistically do not see that happening.
If there was an AV. I would put UKIP as my main vote and Tory as the alternative. I have always voted Tory as I felt that UKIP was a wasted vote, I very much hope the Yes campaign wins.
AV will not lead to small parties getting elected in any great numbers. Look at Australia 98% of the seats go to Labor or LibNats. They currently have a hung parliament in Australia because a couple of Nats stood as independents and won but it is their first hung parliament in decades. The only way it will help small parties like the Greens, UKIP and SNP/Plaid Cymru is they will be able to trade their second preferences for policies guarantees BEFORE the election. The small parties will then advise their supporters which party they should place as their second preference. That is what happens in Australia.
Surely this whole AV crap is just step one of a bigger plan.
If it goes through, the AV-ists will then count up the second and third pref votes and whinge that lots of votes ‘are going to waste’.
They’ll then demand a ‘top-up’ list of MPs who don’t have constituencies, like the one used by the Scottish Parish Cooncil.
Seems complete transparent to me.
Very likely. Sadly.
AV would mean that UKIP are far less likely to get an MP than first past the post. For UKIP to do well as a second choice in most seats, they would have to defeat the tories to get their second choices counted.
If I am a tory and I vote tory first and UKIP second, and the seat is split labour/tory then my second choice vote would not even be counted.
Whereas if I vote UKIP first and tory second, then UKIP would still be eliminated and the tories will pick up their votes. Whereas labour will pick up B&P and GREEN and Liberal second and subsequent choices.
If it were a liberal/labour split, then chances are UKIP would already have been eliminated by the time my second choice is counted.
AV is a mechanism for getting fringe party supporters to give extra support to the mainstream parties.
I cannot understand why UKIP would support such a move. I know that they are in favour of STV and STV plus and I understand why, but the proposed AV system will hurt them badly.
And what is all this “we might get an MP if this system or that system is used?”
What the fuck use is an MP or three? We need HUNDREDS of UKIP MPs if we are to effect real change and AV will not deliver that!
‘I cannot understand why UKIP would support such a move.’
Frankly, none within UKIP, outside of Farage’s clique, can either. AV will effectively eliminate any chance the party would ever have, of entering Westminster.
I don’t quite see why.
If theres a constituency where 51% of voters are vaguely conservative and/or euroskeptic, and UKIP beat conservatives, they’d get a seat.
Do you think that 51% is unobtainable? you’d rather go for a 35% ish on your own?
Very unlikely, Tories may pick up UKIP’s second choice, but UKIP would almost certainly be eliminated before the Tories second choices.
UKIP will not win any seats but it will give them huge power over the Tories BEFORE the election. If the Tories are at say 40% in the polls (I know, dream on) and UKIP 7%, then UKIP will make the Tories beg for their second preferences and will demand concessions from the Tories to get them. Once Farage gets concessions, say EU referendum, he will advise his voters to give the Tories their second preferences. The Greens will be the same with Labour, they’ll demand every house has a windmill or something and Labour will need to agree. That is why the small parties want AV.
Won’t work though will it. Cameron could have had a clear majority if he had granted an in or out referendum. However he was genuinely prepared to see labour win the election rather than doing a deal with UKIP.
Typical choice of candidates in any UK election:
Right wingers: UKIP, Tory
Leftist vermin: Communist Party, National Socialist Party, Socialist Wankers’ Party, Bob the Independent Socialist, Watermelon Green Party, Labour Looting Party, Lib Dumb Party, …
The only hope is that leftist mongs will be stupid enough to put their beloved Labia Party first, thus failing to use their preferences to maximum effect.
Otherwise right wing votes will be counted at most twice, and leftist votes will be counted 10+ times.
That is why the left are mostly in favour of it!
Well, I think a lot of Labour supporters would never give the LibDems their second vote, but quite a few could well give the BNP the second choice.
Tories? Many of them dislike the way the LibDems have toned down the Tory manefesto so will probably give it to someone else, and looking at the smaller parties, that would only be the UKIP.
NO campaign is funded by bankers. Hedge fund bankers at that:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/apr/09/av-tories-no-campaign
Graphic proving FPTP is about 10x harder to vote in than AV:
http://www.anthonysmith.me.uk/2011/01/17/how-complicated-is-the-alternative-vote/
Straight up comparison showing AV is unquestionably better than FPTP:
http://www.tbpsw.co.uk/2011/04/06/fptp-vs-av-at-a-glance/
Also, there are hardly any LibDems in the grassroots campaign. 9 out of 10 main Bristol activists are not LibDems. LibDems might get 30% more seats. Greens stand to get about 1000% more.
Also probably about 1000% more independent MPs elected.
Nice attempt at diversion Guido But missing the point as ever.
Regional Growth Strategy …errrrrr to include “”Super Casinos”””.
Weren’t you and you Tory brethren 100% against such a policy, Cameron used a 3 line whip to oppose regional super casinos. … and didn’t Cameron say in 2007 of super casinos “””it would be disastrous to import the sleazy casino culture of Las Vegas and Atlantic City”””.
When Brown scrapped the Super Casino policy, Blair was furious. So we can safely say – Cambo is definitely the son of Blair now….LOL
Link please?
GOOGLE IT APOLOGIST. Your hero Guido has already mentioned the regional growth policy, in last thread. Clegg has been out touring the country, trying to sell it. Birmingham will planning a super casino in the near future – with gov backing !!!!!!!!!
I did google it and got several links to labour list, and a labour website page which never even mentioned Casinos.
Now kindly provide a link stating that the coalition are pushing casinos.
Cameron was always going to continue were his hero left off, his posturing in opposition was a sham. The man has zero principles of any note. He will do as he is told.
All politicons are odd looking anyway , Must be a rule or something.
Show-business for the ugly.
We resent that.
All politicons are odd looking anyway , Must be a rule or something
Most unfair. My man reckons old Bonkers Johnson looks just like every other cabbage patch doll.
I’m sure labour and conservative are very happy to take the controls every 5 years and do what the fuck they like, and if it doesnt really work, it doesnt really matter, the other side will take over and it’ll be their fault.
It means more MPs will be able to take a few months on the front bench and get a ministers salary.
Ker-ching.
“ministers pension” was what I was really on about.
Do you think AV would change that? Other than allowing the self-defeating fuckwits in the Lib-Dems have a slice of the action I mean?
Theres a chance of it. I must have listened to john cleese as a child or something, and can only vaguely remember it.
But theres something of a failed gambling addict in the idea that FPTP is great after having a powerful Brown-Balls government doing what the hell it liked for so long. “just one more bet and everything will be fine”.
That is a very strong resonant point
Understand the frustration which runs through that argument, but it is sadly spoiled by a rational appraisal of AV which actually will not hurt the top three parties, except that the Lib-dem vote (if current hatred persists in the left) would be split between labour and the greens. The Greens might get a few MPs under AV, and to a real realist environment lover, the idea that the greens could get any power at all fills me with total and utter revulsion.
If there is one party that I hate more than labour, it is the green party.
All politicons are odd looking anyway, Must be a rule or something
Client State (6 million in public sector + millions on benefits) + AV + Postal Voting = Labour rule forever = sinking sterling = me glad having left UK
+1
In which country are you immigrants? I bet they love you there.
Yup, they sure do. You see, unlike your lot of immigrantsfrom God knows what hellholes, UK expats usually do not call on their new hosts for lots of freebies like health care, housing, handouts from the local populace and schools for the kids etc. The vast majority of us are completely self sufficient – which is why we got out while the going was good. You lot can wallow in your own…
And we do not expect the adoptive country’s government to bend over backwards and change their laws to accommodate us, to the extent that natives are having their rights, customs, and traditions trampled underfoot and where locals now feel like foreigners in their own country.
We respect the country we have asked to legally emigrate to!
That does NOT apply to the foreign invasion taking place in the UK!
Couldn’t hack it in the UK, eh?
I am in the UK, my brother emigrated to the USA and I know lots of other people who have moved abroad where they respect the laws and customs of their adopted country.
The Italians definitely prefer me to the Africans running amok in their country.
not telling you where I am, but around here they really seem to love beer-bellied footy clothing wearing sunburnt folks who talk about property all day, or not …
Newcastle. Haway the blubberboys.
Yes – they do as it happens. We pay our taxes like everyone else and we don’t expect (or get) handouts either. We support ourselves and put all our money back into their economy.
They love us!
+1 (and Mr Bag)
Agreed. Another 4 years and i’m off to Thailand or the Philippines.
Sorry Mr Glitter – we still have your passport.
Vote early vote often!!!
Aim for 50% of the vote… Not attain 50% of the vote.
Its still aint gonna stop us getting 2nd rate politicons tho , Just maybe a different result, but we will still be ruled by Brussels and our parliament is just a rubber stamping shop.
Ps Stealing a monkier is crime that is punishable by having a shotgun placed up your arse then the trigger pulled.
Where do we queue!
Behind Alan Duncan and Michael Portillo.
There’s nowt wrong wi’ a shotgun up the arse, as long as it’s a good 12 bore lad.
Did someone say alternative moat?
Certainly not. We do not need more than one moat, especially if it’s kept clean on expenses. Thank you very much.
If it keeps me in at Morley I’m fucking voting for it.
And why do you call Yvette “voting for it”?
Complex? Can you count to five?
If you can my man would like to recruit you. Rather like Blinky Bollocks he is having trouble getting his socks off to do the sums.
Er….
I can count to twenty if I take off my thockth!
(Waits for applause. Not a sausage)
Goon show reference!
Two big lies in the first couple of minutes. The first suggesting that AV will stop safe seats. and that this version of AV is used to elect leaders (except labour). Ed Miliband is in favour of AV because he won from second place on one round of voting, and 4 or five rounds of counting.
Cameron won from several rounds of actual voting. They voted, eliminated the loser and then voted again, then eliminated the loser and so on. Which is a much fairer system than the one proposed and is NOT the system we will be getting a say on. I still prefer FPTP because it allows the candidate who gets the most votes to win. It is very very simple, very effective and it works.
Multi round voting is pretty much like AV in slow motion. I suppose it does give you time to change your mind about your preferences.
Yes Ned, but the fault is that that invariably system ends up with a government that the vast majority of the country (usually) didn’t vote for. Rarely do the party which forms the government have more than mid 30s% – but still claim a mandate to bugger everything up evenmore. Proportional representation would merely result in the “list system” where party hacks/pets/relatives/totty etc are allocated seats based on the number of votes secured. Neither is very satisfactory but dictatorship seems to be the only alternative. Luckily I do not have to make such decisions any more.
Dictatorships aren’t all bad you know.
I prefer the alternative however.
+1
“They voted, eliminated the loser and then voted again, then eliminated the loser and so on. Which is a much fairer system than the one proposed and is NOT the system we will be getting a say on.”
Actually, apart from the redundant “voted again” (preferences tell counters how you’ll vote in each subsequent election) they’re exactly the same.
Amazing how often No voters argue in favour of AV. The race analogy is another one. There is not finishing post in FPTP, it’s totally misnamed. AV is more analogous to a race – the finishing post is 50%.
“It is very very simple, very effective and it works.”
No, it’s completely broken. Imagine deciding whether to stand in an election where the Tory and Labour candidates are neck and neck.
If you’re on the right, standing makes the Labour candidate win.
If you’re on the left, standing makes the Tory candidate win.
At the same time, your vote will be arbitrarily slashed because people who would like to vote for you would be voting tactically. This is why Duverger’s Law states that FPTP is heavily biased towards the two incumbent parties:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvergers_law
Doesn’t get more broken than that.
http://www.tbpsw.co.uk/2011/04/06/fptp-vs-av-at-a-glance/
There is no point bitching about voting systems, We need rid of one parlaiment, Brussels or Westminster, until that is sorted then nothing will change.
+1
Brussels Parliament is a powerless fig leaf, real power resides elsewhere, way beyond the power of the electorate to remove, select or change.
“It’s notable that they don’t even try to explain how their complex system works”
Oh do fuck off Guido. It’s an advert not documentry…..you should know, you campaign hard for the Tories every day.
“…you campaign hard for the Tories every day.”
Oh, really?
Yeah really. Just because Guido exposes scandal and hypocrisy (good on him) – doesn’t mean he’s not a Tory stooge. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
Ah – so “Not Labour Stooge” = “Tory Stooge”?
Think you’ll find that there are many people of independent mind, not blinkered by any party affiliation. It helps greatly in seeing the bigger picture – remarkable how blinkered some of the Party stooges are, but the Lefty ones are by far the worst.
True, I detest all parties but the left wing fanatics do themselves self no favours for themselves with their repulsive ways of conducting themselves.
no – reading the blog enables me to work out he is a Tory stooge
“The poster disagrees with me, therefore he is a Tory stooge.”
Did you struggle at school? Short of qualifications?
For what purpose Quango? A knighthood?
Seems unlikely.
Remember, being anti-Labour does not necessarily make someone pro-Tory.
I would have voted for Cameron even if he said he was going to turn the country into an Islamic superstate. If he said he wanted to move the capitol from London to Aberdeen, he’d still have got the vote. He could have shagged Clegg live on TV while signing release orders for sex-offenders and he’d still have got my vote. Anything to be rid of Brown. Anything at all. Just get rid of the madman.
Now Cameron is in..he’s on his own.
Congrats Bill Quango, someone who was even more anti-Gordon Brown than I was. I did not believe it possible, but you proved it was in that comment.
Purpose – a Tory government I guess, but you’d have to ask Guido that one.
actully , we can make up our minds.
I’d just like to place on record that I have not voted Conservative in a general election since the age of 17, when my uncle couldn’t get to the polling station and I deputised for him. This, however, has more to do with the quality of the local candidates than any verbal commitments by the national party.
crikey Mr. Waad. And I assume you didn’t have the wonderful Den Dover as the conservative candidate.
bill wiggin?
My man is all in favour of alternative voting. He has given all his serfs the alternative of voting for him or losing their jobs.
Today I will mostly be sitting around my hotel bedroom, under armed guard.
Stop jobs for life!
Not on your Nellie.
I reckon I can string this out for another two parliaments.
I’ve got ‘member’s private bill’ to ‘ban the wearing of burkas’
And ‘Morrisons/Waitrose reward points to become legal tender’
Both will keep me in votes. Works for either party too.
Then off to the upper chamber as Lord Bilious of Quango where you can woffle on for hours in your geriatric years about the disturbing prevalence of Moles or some such causing havoc on the village green.
Have you been reading my life after backbencher folder?
““revealing” that the No team has a fair sprinkling of Tories among its staff”
And this is after you yesterday “revealed” that the Electoral Reform Society support electoral reform?
OK, there is a simple and a big difference which I shall try to communicate to you.
The electoral reform society stand to make a personal profit DIRECTLY from a change in the voting system itself from the administration of that new voting system.
The conservatives do not stand to make any more money DIRECTLY from either voting system. There is no conflict of interest from tories voting against a voting system that they have opposed as a policy all along. Whereas when the electoral reform society stand to make money out of a change, then there is a conflict of interest which the voting public have a right to be made aware of before a vote is cast.
Can you understand the difference?
…enter Neil Kinnock – and his Shares…..!
LOL the Electoral Reform Society is a non-profit organisation.
Secondly, there’s no chance of recovering their £~1m investment in the campaign through voting machines that even the Tories admit aren’t needed.
Even if they could make a few hundred thousand, it’s nothing compared to political power. Obama’s campaign is expected to the the first $1 billion campaign.
The Tories gain real power from FPTP. The ERS gain no power.
I’ve got a better system than AV, just give everybody 1 vote on their ballot paper but the twist being you can use your one vote either positively or negatively, so all the negative votes given to any candidate are totted up and deducted from his/her positive scores, alternatively you could elect them according to the number of hits on their twitter accounts.
I can envisage people voting by text in the not-too-distant future.
It’ll be like Strictly Come Dancing. Gawd help us all.
The thick as shit luuvies and students would be soon rioting when Nick Griffin gets in one day under AV.
Dumb fuckers don’t have a clue.
I would quite literally roll on the floor laughing until my bottom fell off if that happened!!!
Quite right, you obviously don’t.
Come on Guido Report this to the equalities commision. Out of about 20 plus people in the video there was only one coloured person. Where are the gays and lesbians, where are the burka wearers, where are the disabled people, where are the poor people, all looked very middle class to me.
It looks like the message here is that AV is for middle class white people only.
Hattie should be puce at the moment.
The British population is about 95% white, so one coloured person out of twenty is about right. As for woofters and dykes, they’re actors, so probably most of them, and tent-wearers are still a very small minority in most of the UK.
The no campaign had Alan Bstard as an MP and the Yes campaign had the long suffering wife of Mr Brittas as an MP. So far I think the ‘No’ ads are more entertaining and factual.
The Yes campaign keep pushing the lie that AV will make MPs listen… WTF? That has not happened in Australia where the MPs are now held in ever lower regard than ours are here.
They push the lie that AV will stop safe seats. Not when a candidate will has a safe seat with a simple 50%+ share of the vote in either system.
So far the Yes vote has had to have celebrities (as themselves) pontificate, patronise, lecture and lie to get their flawed argument across. They have been caught in dirty tricks and rule breaking and conflicts of interest.
This does not give me confidence that they are telling me an honest reason to change to AV.
I have known many reasons to ditch FPTP, however I have not heard a single indisputable reason to change TO Alternative Vote as yet.
I’m feeling squeezed!
How can you tell there are no gays or lesbians? Just asking.
We don’t have any people of colour here.
Oooooohhhh clash, clash, clash! Puce is not your colour luvvie.
Hattie would have liked if there were more women in there women like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Dromey
Lefties= addicted to the state
righties= addicted to freedom
Eh? Righties addicted to freedom? Didn’t we just arrest someone for burning his own book in his own back garden? Didn’t someone recently get found guilty of burning a poppy because some people felt insulted? When you live in a country where you can be arrested and found guilty of annoying someone when you haven’t actually threatened them in any way that is not freedom.
I doubt you are correct about the LimpDims being every Tory and Labour voters second choice. I think you will find UKIP and the BNP getting some airtime.
Yeah , thats right all men are evil and all woman are perfect, god why does she deal in absolutes?
Isn’t that more commonly known as rape Kerry, are you saying that most girls are raped?
These feminists also claim that domestic abuse is all one way, male against female. They always bang on about protecting women from domestic abuse, they never ever recognise that men are victims of domestic abuse too. They only ever acknowlege the down side of inequality and the downside of equality too.
Women want equality, except on pensions and car insurance and having to compete fairly for money in sports and when it comes to pay in the fashion industry.
Oh, and no Polly Toynbee, domestic abuse is not being beaten up by a servant or beating up servants.
Same as only whites can be racists.
If a woman makes it clear that she wants to shag a bloke, but he doesn’t oblige for whatever reason (he doesn’t fancy her, he’s married to someone else or whatever), then she’ll often spread some pretty poisonous rumours and gossip about him.
Funny old game, life.
We’re not all like that, you know.
Lets sum up the situation.
First Past The Post: Crooked Labour MP in my constituency.
AV: Same crooked Labour MP in my constituency.
So what is the point in switching to AV, I still get the exact same bloody result. Could we have a system where we change the electorate, something like an IQ test before you’re allowed to vote?
How about an IQ test before you’re allowed to stand for election?
IQ test for both!
Even though it is merely a dream right now, the best solution would be the baring of political parties and only have independent candidates.
It would mean no protection from the party machine when a representative get caught in the act of doing something wrong, no party whips to enforce MP’s to vote the party line rather than what their constituents demand and a lot harder to hide where donations are coming from, therefore knowing who “owns” the politician.
But, like I say, it is merely a dream right now. Its not that the political elite suppress any voice saying what I am saying, they don’t have to. The mass public still cling to the left vs right one-up-man-ship like they follow a football club so ignore and dismiss anyone talking about getting rid of the parties and just having individuals.
How about the MP wins a seat, but then where that seat is, is drawn randomly.
You might get an SNP. Or Lucas might have to talk to real people, instead of arts and agriculture students.
If your MP is as bad as you say, an Independent Labour candidate would have a good chance of winning under AV and wouldn’t have to vote for ID cards, 90 days detention or any other appalling Labour Bills.
Vote for me. I’ll keep everyone guessing.
Good luck to Real Madrid.
Fuck off you Jock mong – not even your curse can trouble the Special one…
They are so far ahead I think it will take a Gordon handshake to cause a Spanish collapse.
How can AV be fairer, we ended up with David Cameron instead of David Davis.
And Ed instead of Dave. And Harriet instead of Alan.
You see, it does work. As long as it says ‘Those who you vote second, come in first’ at the top of the voting slip, it will be all right.
Loved the clever NO campaign in radio whereby in a 3 horse race Labour came first, Tory second and Lib Dem third. After AV Lib Dems won and were somewhat bemused whereby the commentator stated that maybe the fourth finisher should have won.
Hopefully the AV campaign will meet the same fate as Prescott’s regional government initiative in his own heartland.
If you want the LibDems to hold the balance of power in all future governments…Vote YES
yes. but the leader of the conservative or labour party can get the leader of the lib dems to take all the shit for everything.
We can’t have any losers in the UK. Everyone must win. That’s why we got rid of all the school sports fields.
It does seem like that I must say
If you didnt vote for the winning candidate then your vote is wasted!!??
Well fear not, you get a chance to vote for all the candidates!!
Of course, if it was down to speed, we’d have this guy as PM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwain_Chambers
And what exactly is the post in FPTP? AV has a post: 50% of the vote. What’s FPTP’s post?
The only way someone who leads on first preferences can lose under AV is if the voters prefer the winner.
Democracy sucks eh.
Now that I am going to have time on my hands, I look forward to meeting your excellent former Prime Minister Mr Brown. We have so much in common! We shall swap jokes about the time when the Cameron/Clegg rebel forces encircled Downing Street with their tanks!
Wha’s like us? Gey few, an they’re a’ deid!
As I see it, under AV people will put who they want to vote for as #1 and who they hate last, buffering all the other fruit-loops in between:
Tory voter:
Tories 1
UKIP 2
Libdems 3
BNP 4
Greens 5
Labour 6
Labour voter:
Labour 1
Greens 2
Lib Dems 3
BNP 4
UKIP 5
Tories 6
So opinion will still be polarised, but minor parties will get far more ‘popular’ purely because they are used as padding. Democracy, it aint.
Others will put the fruit loops first, where previously they might have voted for a mainstream party. I must say, AV runs the risk of more Greens, and the first UKIP and BNP MPs getting elected before very long. That’s my only real concern, and why I’m tending towards a no vote at the moment.
It is said that AV could give more chance of power to the BNP. So what – that’s democracy isn’t it! If people vote for the BNP in large numbers why should they be denied!
It is only said by cretins like Warsi. The BNP are opposed to AV as they know they’ll never be preferred to all the other candidates.
Can everyone stop gettin shot?
You think the campaign would at least have given a slot to kinnochio to explain how much money he’s going to make out of it if YestoAV wins wouldn’t you?!
The devastation on the faces of the BBC reporters reporting the fall in inflation is a joy to behold. They are still running all their prerecorded reports about out of control inflation but you can detect tears of disappointment in their eyes when they cut back to the studio.
AV: So simple it could have been invented by a moron
What’s wrong with a Conservative/Lib Dem coalition.
Vote YES and ensure Lib Dems always hold the balance of power and prevent Labour ever getting back into power.
LibDems didn’t even hold the balance of power this time. A Labour coalition was impossible so Clegg had to trick Cameron into offering this referendum. Also, Labour didn’t even want to form a government.
And if Clegg did have a choice, do you think propping up Brown, architect of the recession, would have been at all appealing?
UKIP are currently polling around 8%. So maybe in 2015, if Clegg hasn’t been booted out by his own party, UKIP + Tory + DUP might make up a majority.
Interesting that all the “voters” in this weird commercial seem to be spoorting UKIP colours. I wonder how many disillusioned Lib Dems will vote UKIP? hopeless to imagine that the knuckleheads at UKIP central have any kind of strategy to target them.
I would settle for a Conservative, Liberal Democrat or UKIP MP. I would definitely not want an MP from a left wing party (Labour, BNP, Greens). If the Conservatives and Labour are battling it out, and neither party looks likely to get 50%, am I supposed to hold my nose and vote BNP or Green to stop them from dropping out and giving their second preferences to Labour, and in the meantime, hope that UKIP drop out so the Conservatives get their second preference votes? Just wondering.
It’s no surprise that it is NoToAV that has explained how AV works in the TV spots.
That YesToAV won’t explain a system they know to be of purely partisan interest only to undemocratic, vote gerrymandering LibDem fuck-trumpets is also no surprise.
The country will vote no; the LibDems will be decimated in the council elections; Nick Clegg will sob to “Get Me Away From Here I’m Dying” by Belle & Sebastian; Ed Miliband will again be shown up for the short-trousered trot he is; Cameron will heave a sign of relief at a heavy calibre bullet dodged; and award himself a secret smile at enabling the infantile LibDems to commit political sepuku willingly and without any encouragement whatsoever.
Um wot? Explained how it works? You’re exactly the kind of mentally-retarded partisan prick NO2AV is targeting.