February 28th, 2011

13 Counts in Kilkenny

The Irish have been counting the results of their general election on… Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and still today, Kilkenny has gone to a thirteenth count. Imagine if last year’s general election had taken days to count, n0t to mention negotiate a coalition at the same time. The markets wouldn’t have taken kindly to that…


  1. 1
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    First past the post rules!!!!


    • 5
      billys sucks says:

      Another first for Billy!



    • 6
      Take a political Holiday. says:

      The markets wouldn’t have taken kindly to that…

      Duh. If the count is held over a weekend then the markets are shut. Anyway what’s so wrong with not having a government? Belgium is finding that things run better without one. Politicians and governments are mostly a bloody niusance.


      • 11
        Anonymous says:

        The horse trading after the GE last year lasted a week and didn’t go down well at all.


        • 20
          misterned says:

          The international markets were about to butt-fuck us over a cliff if we did not get a decisive and stable government and quick.

          The UK is not Belgium. They do not have one of the world’s biggest financial centres in the heart of their capital city and they are run by the EU anyway, so no markets give a fuck about the Belgian government.

          The UK government is a whole different matter.


          • Peter Piper Picked...etc says:

            The only valid argument against AV or any other proportional system is that the British are generally to stupid to understand a more sophisticated system. Makes you proud to be British to see the job for life politicos trying to protect thier little fiefdoms… I don’t live in a marginal my vote has never counted…great system.


          • Grumpy Old Man says:

            Utter Bollocks. If you study Italy since 1945, you immediately get the sense of what an inability to elect a strong, stable government does to a nation. Decades of weak political rule have resulted in a chaotic, uncontrolled beaurocracy and a bloodsucking organised crime element which again is uncontollable. Other nations with froms of PR voting suffer the same problems. FPTP is a poor way of showing democratic preference – the others are much worse.


          • PREZZA says:

            I agree with Guido.


          • Stop confusing “government” with “parliament”. The Belgian government is functioning perfectly well; the bureaucrats go to work everyday, levy taxes and interfere in people’s lives just as they always did. The only difference is that there is no direction or scrutiny of all this activity by the elected representatives of the people.


            Because instead of doing what they should be doing, the buggers are fighting amongst themselves and whoring their campaign promises to decide who gets to sit in the swivel chair at meetings and who trousers the biggest wodge of bung. I’d hardly call that a ringing advertisment for PR/AV/STV or any other system that makes coalitions more likely.


        • 21
          Urban Myth. says:

          Wrong that is just a myth put out by the no to AV campaign. The market rose throughout the week following the election.

          General election 6th May 2010.

          FTSE 100 6th May 2010 = 5261
          FTSE 100 14th May 2010 = 5433.7



          • Anonymous says:

            Yeah, because they realised it would be a Conservative-led coalition i.e. Good.


          • Dick the Prick says:

            Not good but certainly better. We are dealing with tossers remember. Ho hum – the rise of mediocrity. He’s in Venezuala! Is he? Is he fucking really?


          • John Thomas says:

            Guido old chap” The markets wouldn’t have taken kindly to that…” don’t laugh but Belgium hasn’t had a government for 9 months or so, and a more serious note, this country hasn’t had a government worth the name for 13 years judging by the mess this country is in, and the market thought it was wonderful, free rein (or is that free of reign)


          • misterned says:

            There was a couple of deep drops in value when rumours of a labour/liberal/others “rainbow” coalition of the losers was looking almost likely.

            But when that scare was over the markets did rise again. Not because there was no government, but because a solid, long term government, who acknowledged and planned to reduce the deficit became ever more likely.

            The labour lot are still in total denial. They are operating in fantasy mode.


          • On the commute home says:

            Very good point that


      • 33
        the land league says:

        what ‘markets’, fat ‘paddy’? oh you mean Ben shalom Benanke, Merv Shalom King, J-C shalom Trichet …, and all the other ‘special’ moneychangers, printing trillions to hand to their fellow bankster bloods to send the major stock markets on a one way bet, as well as sending commodities exponential, and leading millions to penury and real starvation. you fucking piece of shilling shite. first thing the last thinking Irish should do is kick scum out like you and your psychopathic bankster paymasters.



      • 75
        Ken Lorp says:

        Well, we wouldn’t want the will of the people, through the ballot box, to upset the markets, would we?


        • 137
          Bled White Taxpayer says:

          The problem is most of “the people” are too selfish to think of what is good for the country, rather than themselves, and vote accordingly. I’d rather live in a successful and prosperous country than one run to the benefit for the lowest common denominator. FPTP means that about 50% of the time Labour are out on their ear. AV and any other form of PR would be likely to usher in coalition government as a normal way of life, rather than a very unusual exception. Coalition government always means dirty compromises and a sub-optimal pandering to the lowest common denominator.


    • 29
      john in cheshire says:

      Vote NO to AV. Vote YES for a Referendum on withdrawal from the EU.


      • 35
        Anonymous says:

        I ddn’t realise we had that choice ?


      • 87
        Is it me says:

        or does anyone else notice there is no referendom on anything that counts, like the EU, and millions wasted on referendums on stupid things that don’t, AV ( stupid system, just ask any ozzie)


        • 100
          Tom Tomos says:

          We’ve got our own little ‘St David’s’ referendum down here in Wales this week. Nothing hinges on it and no-one will notice.


      • 140
        Bled White Taxpayer says:

        There’s one guaranteed way to increase turnout for the AV referendum, at the cost of a little bit of ink to print four small words as an additional question on the ballot paper:

        Europe: in or out?


  2. 2

    Kilkenny finished yesterday. Do you mean Wicklow? Also AV would have quicker counts cause no surplus issue o quota calculation.


    • 15
      Anonymous says:

      I thought the process was automated, which kind of makes recounts unnecessary ? Isn’t that being used as a reason for AV ?


      • 27
        pp says:

        Counting machines trialled for FPTP in the past proved unreliable – AV doesn’t need machines and I, for one, would object to machines being used – the lack of postal vote transparency is bad enough!!


      • 33
        misterned says:

        Are you clinically insane enough, or treasonous enough to want automated counts?

        Kiss goodbye to any form of representative government at all if you do that. Once you lose the ability to track the vote, from the ballot to the count to the result, then you lose any pretence of democracy.

        The hackers would have a field day and the corrupt politicians would simply give the account for creating the counting software to one of their cronies to ensure that the ‘right’ votes are dropped, the ‘right’ votes are added and the ‘right’ result prevails, regardless of who voted what.

        This is what happened for real in the USA with Diebold systems. One of their chief engineers admitted in court that Diebold could rig the result of an election and that it would be completely untraceable.

        Do you really want that here? Vote NO to AV!


        • 51
          Anonymous says:

          Take your point about possible interference. But any half decent character recognition system should be able to scan, validate, and count 50k ballot papers in an hour.

          Why multiple recounts over days and days?


          • Anonymous says:

            Don’t the Irish allow ‘tallymen’ to scrutinise each and every vote being counted? If the official figures don’t match theirs, presumably they demand a recount.


          • misterned says:

            Of course OCR could work, but that is not the point. The point is, as soon as a computer takes the input into an electronic, digital format, ALL the traceability of voter-vote-count-result is lost. You have to have faith and trust that your vote is counted correctly, instead of flipped or deleted. There is no-way to “look inside the machine” to track your vote.

            There is NO physical way to track your vote.

            The result will be entirely unprovable to independent audits and then that means that the result will be entirely based on trust.

            Do you trust the politicians to organise and count the vote properly, honestly and truthfully?

            I don’t!


          • Anonymous says:

            @MrNed – it is not that hard to envisage a system that maintains an audit trail of each vote cast by reference to (for instance) a unique bar code or number printed on each ballot form.

            The real question is, who would trust the (initially unaudited) result that is reported immediately after polling closes? And who would do the verification analysis? It’d be a job for accountants/computer programmers rather than the secretaries who usually shuffle the ballot forms.


    • 63
      Sir William Waad says:

      They like to recount everything several times to be sure, to be sure.


  3. 3
    Ed Bollocks says:

    Fuck off Tat!


  4. 4
    Gordon's Brown says:

    I demand another recount!


  5. 7
    Rumpuypumpuy says:

    When are they gonna hold another election to get the result everyone wants?


  6. 8
    Joss Taskin says:

    Only 13 Hunts ??


  7. 9
    the beast of dublin says:

    Who cares?
    Eire is a damp s***hole that produces one good thing
    And the people tend to be good sorts (some are of course complete arseholes)*

    *You know who I mean (+:


  8. 10
    tory boys never grow up says:

    So we should let the markets decide on our electoral system and I daresay the result as well? Why bother with all these silly elections in the first place – they only create uncertainty for the markets. I just don’t know how all those countries without first past the post just manage to survive its a real mystery.

    Just remember that Tories have opposed nearly every single democratic advance in this country – but they have always been good friends with the markets!


    • 12
      Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

      If you borrow money from the markets ……..


    • 16
      Anonymous says:

      Looking at the state of our ‘democracy’ and the governments we have chosen, can you say for sure that every change has been an ‘advance’ ?


      • 108
        AC1 says:

        He’s a Marxist. Everything that creates unemployment, hampers wealth creation, destroys value, ruins reciprocation and removes freedom he’d describe as an advance.


        • 123
          tory boys never grow up says:

          “He’s a Marxist.”

          No I’m not – believing that democracy takes precedence over markets or that markets need regulation to avoid their excesses does not make you a Marxist.


          • Audemus Dicere says:

            “believing that democracy takes precedence over markets”

            What a silly statement! The “markets” are the purest form of democracy there is. Certainly far more democratic than what passes for a voting sytem in this country.

            You seem to think the “markets” are some kind of evil construct set up to destroy democracy. Since a market is merely the collective view of all of its participants, it is the closest we can ever come to democracy.

            For this very reason “you can’t buck the markets”, nor is it sensible to try to do so, no matter how much politicians, bureaucrats and other interfering ne’er do wells may think or wish otherwise.


          • tory boys never grow up says:

            “believing that democracy takes precedence over markets”

            It is not a silly statement – it is a statement of values, you may wish to disagree(and clearly do) but it was I most people believe.

            “The “markets” are the purest form of democracy there is”

            Now there is a silly statement – so lets sell the government of this country to the highest bidder.

            As for bucking the markets – well I think you will find that some people did just this when the market was mispricing the risk on asset backed securities and they are very rich indeed – and didn’t JP Morgan make his money by “insider dealing”?


  9. 13

    What’s your stance on AV now Gordy?

    Still a death bed convert?


    • 17
      Call me cynical says:

      Brown and his Labour cronies will support anything which will get them back into power. Can I suggest giving the vote to 16 year olds, that should do it.


      • 54

        Give the vote only to 16 year olds might clinch it for him. It would make the bribes more affordable for the country.


      • 65
        Postal Voter says:

        Import more Liebour voters ??


      • 90
        good thinking says:

        the labour education system ensured most 16 year olds can’t read


        • 99
          A politically immature 16 year old who believes Labour hype says:

          No but Labour are for the working man innit, they are for the poor innit, the evil Tories are just for the rich innit.


          • BBC Recruitment Office says:

            Would you like a job as a BBC Newsreader? Your political views and your “right on and with it” patois are just what we are looking for to promote our balanced output!


          • Uninformed foreigner says:

            Where I live the BBC World TV News service have already got the patois down to the completely unintelligible level. Thick Glaswegian accents are just what we locals need in Asia.


  10. 14
    pp says:

    Surely you know Ireland doesn’t use AV as proposed for the UK?

    Why are you suddenly such an enthusiastic AV knocker? Simple hate of Clegg? or developing closer ties to the ‘ruling’ party?

    AV is simply a better way of electing a representative MP, so whats the story?


  11. 18
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    ” n0t to ”



  12. 19
    MI5 says:

    Recent comment on Feb17 twitter stream

    “Best quote: If TONY BLAIR brought any more peace to the Middle East there will be nobody left to enjoy it”


  13. 22
    Anonymous says:

    O/T Illsley doesn’t like prison very much:


    Note the little dig at Eton.

    Also: “As soon as he realised he wasn’t entitled to the money he paid it back.” Yeah, well it doesn’t work that way, unfortunately.


    • 69
      Corrigendum says:

      Should read, ” As soon as he realised he was rumbled he paid it back”.


      • 71
        Anonymous says:

        Yeah, the non-existant mortgage should have been a clue as to entitlement, really.


      • 101
        Anonymous says:

        As soon as he was caught he paid it back. Any sympathy I had for his wife disappeared as soon as she made that Etonian comment. Tribal to the end, fuck her !


    • 84
      Steve Miliband says:

      Said Mrs Ilsley in an exclusive interview with her local rag. The fee from the interview will be used for the ‘free Eric Ilsley’ campaign.


      • 102
        Grumpy Old Man says:

        The campaign is only just starting. We have the Dianafication of Eric to look forward to, Elton John to write “Candle in A Wing”, hordes of Lefties in a permanent vigil outside the prison, a letter-writing campaign in the Guardian, Monbiot in full cry, the Illsley home featured in,”Hello.” Ah! the joys to come!


  14. 23
    Ac/Dc/Ac says:

    probably still waiting for the Guinness to settle before they start the count


  15. 24
    Arsene Wenger says:

    It was a mix up of words between two Arsenal players that gifted Birmingham their winning goal.

    I believe the misunderstanding was due to Szczesny saying “Schzcnsiffhdcy skefp’idmedv”

    Whereas Kosicelny misunderstood and interpreted it as “Czsjfhhkopysy fazcqkhsczin” simple mistake really that could be made by anyone.


    • 155
      I'll have some of that says:

      Where’s Mr Slater’s parrot when you need him….?


    • 162
      babel (no, not Ryan) says:

      Arsene, I had the same thought. The players in that team speak either Czech, or Russian, or French, or Dutch, or Danish, or English(!) or some unknown African dialect. No wonder confusion reigned (and they all got very wet!). They all need a crash course in the 20 most used words in [whatever is the most common language amongst them] and stick to that. then they might begin to understand what they are trying to say to each other.


  16. 25
    Stacey Emin says:

    The markets have done Ireland in.

    A fair democratic process is an important thing. So what if it takes a bit longer?


  17. 28
    Gordon Brown says:

    I like raw potatoes.


    • 36
      Richard Timney says:

      I like Raw Meat.

      If we got together, could we make a pie?


      • 42
        Anonymous says:

        Jacqui at the weekend ridiculously claiming that she resigned at the time because hubby was so depressed he couldn’t work and she needed him to run her office.

        Nothing to do with the false expense claims; petty penny-pinching claims; porn-obsessed husband; first home debacle; and general incompetence, then?

        You couldn’t make it up.


        • 46
          A man who won 16 gold medals for lying at the 1936 Olympics says:

          I could.


        • 67

          She was going to resign much sooner. but Gordon needed her to stay because 1> The euro elections
          2> there was a massive coup and he had very few MPs left that he could put into cabinet.

          If you recall he had to go so far down the list he ended up with Margaret Beckett from the retirement home.

          So her comment is bollocks.


        • 139
          PD77 says:

          Work? Surely she meant wank?


      • 72
        Lard Presclott of Bulimia, Bog Seats, Beams,Bellies,Banjos,Punches, Croquet, Pies, Jags 'n' Shags says:

        Pie ?? Who mentioned pie ??? Your expense account or mine ?


  18. 30
    Returning Officer (returning again) says:

    Count early, count often.


  19. 38
    Ed Miliband says:

    Gerry Adams has a beard.


  20. 43
    Go East young man says:

    Why are the Egyptians leaving Libya into Tunisia and not into Egypt?


  21. 50

    It is rather like the Spanish mañana, but with its sense of urgency removed.


    • 164
      babel (no, not Ryan) says:

      S, the Arabic equivalent of that is bukra fil mishmish = tomorrow in the apricot season – which makes manana look like a F1 Mclaren going by.


  22. 55
    Guido must be AVin a laugh... says:

    So Guido would have us believe that a result that would affect a tiny handful of constiuencies, and likely have no significant effect on the overall outcome of the election, would have the markets plunging through the floor. Yeah, right.

    And that’s without the fact that Ireland uses a different system to the one Guido is railing against, or that he can’t he even get the constituency in question correct…

    Must try harder Guido, these arguments are getting weaker. Still, I find it interesting that a self-proclaimed libertarian is arguing against the people having more power over their politicians and elections, on the basis of some complete non-sequitur about ‘the markets’


  23. 56
    Sir William Waad says:

    To which I answer “Sod the markets!”


  24. 66
    Brian Cowen says:

    Fek the lot of youse (+belch+)!


  25. 74
    8 Minute Ed Balls says:

    So What!


  26. 76
    Engineer says:

    Thirteen counts? They’d better have another one – thirteen’s unlucky.


  27. 82
    YAB hates everything about britain says:

    If YAB hates our country so much, why doesn’t she fuck off to one off to one of the newly liberated Arab states?



    • 83
      Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

      I am sure the feeelings mutal.


    • 92
      Backwoodsman says:

      She should have had her citizenship revoked & been put on the first plane to Somalia when labour were kicked out – given a long time to reflect on the follies of her overwhelming sense of self importance & ingratitude.


      • 104
        No Comment says:

        How come the comments below her articles have a habit of disappearing?

        When I looked earlier, there were many helpful comments on what she could do if life in Britain was making her so miserable but now there is nothing.


      • 112
        AC1 says:

        +2 ( as I’ve already said +1)


    • 115
      If this many people disliked me, I'd realise I was mad says:

      From her website:

      “The list of people who have previously been offended by her words include Prince Charles, Cherie Blair, Bruce Anderson, Melanie Phillips Boris Johnson, Rod Liddle, David Blunkett and his erstwhile lover Kimberley Quinn, Keith Vaz, The Board of Jewish Deputies .. The Muslim Council of Britain, Ken Livingstone, Dianne Abbot, the National Black Alliance and many others. Then there are the mullahs and Muslim apologists who want to go further and kill her. “


    • 142
      Gonk says:

      She’d be crashing about the pots and pans,
      absorbed with washing up. That’s why.
      Over here, she can pretend at least, that anyone
      gives a fuck what she says.


  28. 86
    Steve Miliband says:

    Do they have a problem with their ‘Chads?’


  29. 94
    TJB says:

    If you can’t decide after 13 rounds the chances are you’re not going to trust the outcome anyway.

    The number of spoiled or rejected votes will be most interesting if it’s as close as the length of the count suggests.


  30. 95
    South Park says:

    Oh my god, they killed Kenny! You bastards!


  31. 96
    Gordon Brown says:

    I hate elections.


    • 129
      Unelected Emperor Herman van Rumpypumpy says:

      So do I. That’s why you didn’t get to choose me.

      Interestingly, William Hague told the BBC today, “It is important that countries choose their own leaders”.

      I’ll get one of my lower minions to have words with Hague and put him in his place. No-one in Britain gets to choose their real leaders any more.


  32. 97
    Joined up thinking? says:

    I can’t understand Dave’s Logic.

    1) Supports UN thingy to ban international travel by Gaddafi

    2) Says Gaddafi should go now.


  33. 105
    Mike says:

    Whether seats need recounts has got bugger all to do with electoral systems.

    In both 2005 and 2010 you had defered elections in constituencies due to the death of candidates during a campaign. I don’t recall many people on May 7th saying that coalition negotiations couldn’t begin because we would have to wait for Thirsk and Maldon…


  34. 110
    AC1 says:

    You get a buyer for Thick Arse Thief??


  35. 114
    typical Mick says:

    They did elect this bloke though..Ming someone


  36. 116
    Tom Badwind says:

    I’ve told Red Ed to attempt to de-toxify the Liebour brand but all the time he’s taking advice from Gordon & Kinnockio it’s practically impossible.

    It doesn’t help either that he’s got Balls pretending to be his chum, demanding to sign off all his lies speeches beforehand.


    • 120
      Ed Balls says:

      I like Ed Miliband. When the other grown-ups and I are planning Labour’s future, Ed is always there, taking notes and running around making us cups of tea.


  37. 121
    Gordon Brown says:

    I am good at counting.


  38. 124
    Anonymous says:

    In Ireland there is time built in between the election and the meeting of the new Dail which elects the Taoiseach. So the market know that there will not be a new Government until 9th March. There is time to count every vote and negotiate between parties rather than being driven by markets.

    Surely the issue is the same one on the streets of the Middle East – the right of a people to govern themselves in a representative democracy. FPTP is not representative so it is not democratic – under FPTP the results do not represent how people vote (like Labour getting a 66 seat majority in 2005 on 35% of the vote and proceeding to destroy the economy). The present coalition is, actually, the first Government in decades that represents over 50% of voters, so the first to have any democratic legitimacy.


  39. 125
    Steve Davies says:

    Its good to come out.


  40. 126
    Fred Bloggs says:

    How many c*nts did you say ?


  41. 130
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    In the recent economic crisis, I doubt Ireland will be able to stay afloat.

    Well, Cork might.


  42. 133
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    I just seen one of those new swimming aids for Moosleems being advertised

    Slab of concrete attached to shackles will be in stores soon.


  43. 156

    The English have no idea how to run a real democracy


  44. 166
    Postlethwaite says:

    Markets wont like that . . duh?

    Who cares?


  45. 167
    Tacitus says:

    It might have been worth the wait – we might have been saved from 5 years of David Cameron smirking at us all.


  46. 169
    Paul Marks says:

    The election is a mess.

    The blue (FG) is forced to go into government with the Red (Labour) – this has been the only way (again and again) that the blue has managed to form a government in opposition to the corrupt green populists (FF).

    So the blue will be in government – but it will not be able to do anything about union power (because Labour depends on the unions) so unemployment will stay wildly high.

    Kevin M. in the Spectator was correct – Ireland is f………


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