November 30th, 2010

Do They Know They’re Born?

This has to be a pretty compelling argument for students paying their way. Guido presents to you the best and brightest of Northumbria University:

Comparing the privileged life of an undergraduate to kids starving in Africa, who have to worry about their next meal rather than their media studies assignment. Nice.


  1. 1
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Fuck me , When they understand life then they might get it ! Fuck its even on Fox news

  2. 2
    Anonymous says:

    What is Northumbria University? Personally I’ve never heard of it.

  3. 3
    Simon Harley says:

    It’s a shame the wankers who made that video won’t actually have to pay the higher tuition fees.

  4. 4
    Brit on the edge says:



  5. 5
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Also , The Grad tax is similer to a hike in fees , fuck sake they had 18 years free education ( Free to them ) , But the problem is nimbyism , Ya know ” Yes we need to cut our deficit but not * insert topic* as it will cause death to a billion people bollokocks , Fuck sake if someone as stupid as me gets it then , If iwas a parent paying for some of the kids that are protesting i would ask for a fucking refund !

  6. 6
    AC1 says:


    Taxpayers Against Student Theft/Extortion.

    Tell your MP that students should pay their own way.

  7. 7
    13eastie says:

    Media Studies?

    Those are music students, Guido…

  8. 8
    the next Mr Katona says:

    Let these morons go four days without food and see if they don’t think all the nutrients they can suck from a festering zebra shit is worth more than £9000 to them.

    Absolutely clueless. They should be ashamed of themselves the over-pampered pricks !

  9. 9
    Anonymous says:

    Its obscene! I could not watch more than 20 seconds.

  10. 10
    AC1 says:

    Yep, their parents should be billed for their education upto 18, then they pay their own way.

    Extortion funded state indoctrination has and will always be a failure.

  11. 11
    Anonymous says:

    And no doubt they will have paid all the necessary royalties etc…

  12. 12
    Got an idea says:

    Swap 100 of them for three years to do respective degrees in each others countries, send the British kids, not all white by the way to Africa and send 100 Africans to do a degree course over here and see how they get on.

    Soon see the idealism and bluster soon vanish out of the British kids who believe they are self entitled and holier than thou.

  13. 13
    Jimmy says:

    Most toe curling video I’ve seen since Guy TV

  14. 14
    Get a real job says:

    Same difference i.e. useless fuckers.

  15. 15
    Fucked Off Now says:

    yes, not quite Oxbridge is it?

  16. 16
    What a bunch of scum says:

    Media, Music, Mickey Mouse

    Same fucking difference the idle bastards = useless fuckers.

  17. 17
    Student Grant says:





  18. 18
    Michael St George says:

    Seems like this dump was the formerly Newcastle Poly – appears to specialise in turning out teachers and “health sector professionals”. In other words, perfect preparation for a lifetime of leeching off the productive economy – no wonder they think they shouldn’t have to pay for it.

    If ever there was an argument for turning this cesspit and so many others like it back into a technical or vocational college, this dumbassed video surely is it. And they think we should pay for people who should never be allowed near a university in the first place to arse around at our expense for 3 years while they get a degree in bedpan studies.

    This country is truly f***ed.

  19. 19
    nell says:

    Oh Dear!!!

    So this load of students, who don’t get up before mid-day – work approx. 15/20 hours a week at their studies, and that’s an overestimate (and yes I do know what I’m talking about!) and could, if they moved themselves, earn at least some money towards their tuition fees with the rest of their empty week, think they are as hard done by as the starving children of africa??!!

    And to boot most of them are studying degrees in worthless subjects like dance, beauty and hair!!

    Well vince may be prevaricating, but I for one think it’s time for a healthy dose of reality!! You want a degree that’s going to give you a decent job, then first of all you have to work for it, secondly when you get it then you have to pay back the cost of it.

    That is fair. There is no such thing as a free lunch!!

  20. 20
    Fucked Off Now says:

    ………. but what about University Challenge???

  21. 21
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    And most will become MPS in ten-fifteen years

  22. 22
    Kester says:

    Makes me ashamed to be a student, seriously people grow up.

    With a degree you are likely to earn over £100,000 in your life, easily enough to pay off that ‘debt’… Using debt in the loosest possible term, since if you can’t afford to pay you don’t have to…

  23. 23
    Ego Warrior says:

    you talk utter shite

  24. 24
    S. Weasel says:

    Ugh. Is there any way we can take back the education they’ve already had?

  25. 25
    Ego Warrior says:

    yes, look at Davie Cameron …… now how much does he steal from the taxpayer again????

  26. 26
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Mortgare intrest payments and wisteria

  27. 27
    Unsworth says:

    SOS? As in Sod Off Students.

    What self-indulgent, self-centred, mindless little prats.

  28. 28
    Jim says:

    I’m embarrassed to be a student right now. And one who runs a student radio station. Christ.

  29. 29
    Unsworth says:

    Put up your counter-argument, then. Vituperation is not debate.

  30. 30
    Popeye says:

    How the hell can that idiot Cable say he will abstain when he formulated the raise. What a whutz.

  31. 31
    Tessa Tickles says:

    Music? Is that what it was? Sounded like a cat being strangled.

  32. 32
    nell says:

    Not as much as you sweetie!

  33. 33
    Popeye says:

    Sack the Liberal fool.

  34. 34
    AC1 says:

    Someone has to though.

  35. 35
    Tessa Tickles says:

    I got to 1m14s, when they started whining about not being able to afford a university course. Unless they take out a dirt-cheap student loan with astonishingly generous repayment terms, obviously.

  36. 36
    AC1 says:

    It looks like they attended a crèche rather than an educational establishment.

  37. 37
    Turnbull says:

    Poor lambs, worried about debt. Wait until they graduate and face mortgages, car loans, credit cards and more. The Student Loan is dirt cheap credit, grab it whilst you can.

  38. 38
    Tessa Tickles says:

    It’s a shame they don’t get to meet the business-end of a Gatling gun.

  39. 39
    AC1 says:

    Vince “windsock” Cable makes Bliar look principled.

  40. 40
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    The Grauniad has had a few bleating articles lately about how important the ‘humanities’ are. ‘Humanities’ are presumably the courses that these soft shits study.

    No nasty, hard science or engineering degrees for our lovely underacheiving students. Just the pansy fucking humanities.

    The Graun also insists that anyone with a contrary view on this is a ‘barbarian’.

    It makes me want to hurl.

  41. 41
    Polly Toy Bee says:

    This site wants a final solution for smug middle class twats.

  42. 42
    Warren Valentine says:

    I’m sorry guido, I didn’t quite catch the bit where they compare themselves to starving children in Africa…

    Also Guido, you suggest its only fair that students pay their own way. Would you say it was fair to get a free education, default on your debts and then stash your new revenue streams overseas… Don’t get me wrong, I’m not with these students at all, but maybe you could give us some background to your own university experiences and how much of a moral light you are to us all in your financial dealings…

  43. 43
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Nah cant go with you on that one , Thats taking it a bit too far .

  44. 44
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Here here!

    They need a good fucking shoeing!

  45. 45
    Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

    Is in not C.U.N.T?

    the Central University of North Tyneside?

    Just askin’…….

  46. 46
    nell says:

    Northumbria Uni , Newcastle

    popular subjects: film&television ; advertising&media; health&safety; neighbourhood renewal; urban regeneration…………………..

    No doubt prezza is one of their vice presidents lecturing for a fee on climate change!!

    What happened to real universities and real subjects??!!

  47. 47
    Tessa Tickles says:

    What does a state education cost, per pupil? Something like £110? And the result can be seen on that video. Fuck me, I want my money back.

  48. 48
    Lil Olmey says:

    O/T, some EU apparatchik doesn’t want to see the UK economy recover :

    The sooner the EU falls apart the better.

  49. 49
    wayne trombone, Lord says:

    Vince Cable, the Business Secretary, said that corruption investigations were “not a matter” for the Duke, adding that it would be “helpful” if he steered clear of policy issues in future.
    Mr Cable was speaking after leaked documents showed that the Duke, Britain’s trade envoy, described the British government as “stupid” during a business brunch at which he surprised an American ambassador with his foul language.

    cable should fuck right and quickly
    after all the utter shit he spewed about bankers – what a fucking 2 legged hypocrite
    Cable – no – I piss in your yoghurt drink, you fuck !

  50. 50
    6EQUJ5 says:

    You really need to get that index finger fixed Billy, I’m sure it would help your keyboard skills.

  51. 51
    Tessa Tickles says:

    £110K. FFS.

  52. 52
    Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

    I imagine its the bit where they use the whole fucking Band Aid song and just stick their own whiney lyrics in..

    But perhaps its me thats wrong?


  53. 53
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Unless you mean principled in looking after himself ?

  54. 54
    No Sympathy says:

    How many people studying ‘music’ will be rock stars and the next big thing?

    How many people need ‘media degrees’ to report on the news that a zillion bloggers can do for free in the age of the internet and blogger?

    Er yes exacatly…..

    Real trades dying out, having to import the skills from other countries all so useless Brit kids can live an unsustainable dreamworld and fantasy that ends once they go to apply for a job and reality hits most of them all like a ton of bricks.

    Makes me laugh when I see someone from Poland coining in 50k p.a. for Engineering while some Brit Kid isn’t even scraping in 20k after tax in some dead end job with their useless degree.

  55. 55
    nell says:

    Oh Unsworth – you can’t expect labour’s current load of uni students studying subjects such as dance, health, beauty and how to count the toes on your feet, to understand a word like vituperation.!!

  56. 56
    Alan Duncan says:

    Fed on rations and treated like s**t.

    I can empathise.

  57. 57
    Tessa Tickles says:

    I’d agree with it. Cable’s a slimier piece of shite than Tony “WMD” Blair ever was.

    I’d also say David Cameron makes Mr Lying Liar of Liartown on Sea, with gold medals in lying from the Liar Olympics and a 2:1 degree in lying from the University of Lying, look honest.

  58. 58
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Northumbria University is based in Newcastle and is helping Egypt attain it’s green credentials.

  59. 59
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Fuck sake when will people relise that dont have to rely on the state !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  60. 60
    JH says:

    It’s real world time
    The left really should be afraid
    At real world time, we call them out, and we hold the gates

    And in our world, of paying tax, we can spread a smile of joy!
    Enjoy the fruits of your own labour, at real world time!

    But say a prayer,
    a prayer for the entitled ones
    at real world time

    it’s hard, but when you are spending your own money
    there’s a den of twats who think it should be theirs

    It’s a world of lefty fear
    Where the only public money flowing is the bitter sting of cuts
    And the entitlements that ring there are the clanging chimes of doom

    Well tonight thank God it’s them instead of you

    And there won’t be diversity councillors in Manchester this christmas time
    The greatest gift they’ll get this year is a fucking P-fortyf-iiiive.

    Where nothing ever grows
    No rain or public moneys flow

    Do they know it’s christmas time at all?

    Here’s to you
    Raise two fingers to everyone
    Here’s to them
    Entitled whiny little fuckers are nearly done

    Do they know it’s christmas time at all?

    Cut the spending
    Cut the spending
    Cut the spending
    Let them know it’s reality time and
    Cut the spending
    Let them know it’s reality time and
    Cut the spending
    Let them know it’s reality time and
    Cut the spending
    Let them know it’s reality time and
    Cut the spending
    Let them know it’s reality time and
    Cut the spending
    Let them know it’s reality time

  61. 61
    Nick "Sniffing the gusset of power" Clegg says:

    We support the fees even though we said we wouldn’t which is why in the interests of our bank balance we’ll be sitting this one out.

  62. 62
    Peter says:

    They did originally plan on calling it the City University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne. No word of a lie.

  63. 63
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Doesn’t scan well old boy, though I agree with the sentiment.

  64. 64
    Just a student says:

    So what courses did everyone here do then?

    I agree that there are far too many courses that don’t lead onto a career or help in any way. But have you ever heard of ‘tarring people with the same brush’, any of you? Yes some students are lazy and don’t work hard but some of us do.

    That does not mean that all of us who want to go to Uni, who work hard, who want to get on in life, should foot the bill for Labour completely messing up and overspending.

    These cuts are depriving an entire generation of the mere chance of furthering themselves. Universities don’t let people in freely, they judge people on academic ability and the cuts and raising tuition fees is massively off-putting if you come from a poor background.

    Also, how is raising tuition fees to £9k going to help the government reduce expenditure, when it is them who need to fork out the money in the first place!?

    Another problem that I see is that all we have seen from recent governments is an emphasis on academic education. Apprenticeships should be encouraged and supported; they are much more appropriate for a lot of careers. Sadly, they are looked down upon still, and not widely talked about so how can you blame people for going to Uni – which is more valued by society – over doing a more vocational course / apprenticeships?

    I know I’m pretty much alone in this but I just thought I’d try and add some sensibility here instead of screaming that “all students are scum” – how eloquent and grown up of you.

  65. 65
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Why do you want it back? it’s obviously not fit for purpose!

  66. 66
    Old dog no tricks says:

    They obviously expect my kids to go without food so that I can afford them to go take David Beckham studies courses with my tax money ! Why don’t they just ask their parents to fund it instead of taking out a loan ! Oh yeah – their parents can’t afford the waste of money either ! So why expect me to pay then !

    Get a f*ckin’ real job instead of a dumbed down useless degree ! You fools ! If you voted for the LibDims – then you have no comprehension of the country, its problems and how to be able to afford free education ! Just like the libDims didn’t have a clue ! They made promises they never thought they would have to live up to ! More fool you lot – s*ckers !

    It might not be Christmas – but it IS REALITY !

  67. 67
    Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

    I had heard such rumours and so obviously cant claim that as my own!

    Still, its very apt here.

  68. 68
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Yeah – bring on ‘Puff the Magic Dragon’ – that’ll fix their ‘stupid loan’ issues quick smart !

  69. 69
    HC says:

    This video was made by volunteers, who want to make a difference to those who will have to pay the higher tuitions fees. A rather selfless thing to do, no?

    If you are going to criticise the fact they used Live Aid, I think you have to criticise anyone who has ever taken an original concept and given their own take on it. I highly doubt they ever wanted to compare student poverty to actual world poverty. It’s rather narrow minded to think that these students would ever dream of making such a comparison.

    I never quite understand why blogs such as this one are used to spout such negativity about people who are trying to make a positive diference.

    I work full time in the education sector, pay my taxes and am certainly not a freeloader. In my job I see how students just like these ones give up their time to do hundreds of hours of voluntary work and charity work and it makes me sick that people like the ones above can so easily look down upon others.

    There is a simple solution for those of you who cannot bare to watch this video – Don’t. Better occupy your time by complaining about something else you’re not happy with.

    I eagerly await to hear about how you disagree with me.

  70. 70
    Tessa Tickles says:

    They’re in Germany.

  71. 71
    nell says:

    OK you poor old , hard done by ,starving, students, studying worthless subjects that labour promoted.

    Explain to us why , if as you believe, you are studying a subject that is going to get you a highly paid job in the future ( even though I don’t believe it) you should not, when you are earning your £millions, have to pay back the cost of that education to we taxpayers , most of whom have not had the chance of a uni education??!! Hmmm??!!

  72. 72
    Anonymous says:

    Move to Scotland, they seem to be able to afford it somehow.

  73. 73
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    It’s too deeply ingrained now Billy, after 13 years of Labour’s social engineering. A program of propaganda and manipulation that Joe Goebels would have been in awe of.

    Labour have built a large client populace who only know how to spend other people’s hard-earned cash, get fat, breed, watch X Factor, and demand their ‘human rights’.

  74. 74
    Templar says:

    Come come now everybody. These people are our future. Them getting a degree will benefit the whole of this great country of ours. We should be paying for them to go to university to learn Media Studies/Music to ensure that X-factor has enough people for the next series!

    Personally I think it is a great idea that a Band E Civil Servant like myself should be paying increased taxes and possibly facing the sack because these people want to learn how to improve their singing. I mean, fuck me, but if anyone needs to learn to improve their singing it’s this lot.

    If you are becoming a Doctor, then yes, I don’t mind adding something to the pot, but i you want to do a mickey mouse degree, then you can fuck off and pay for it yourself as far as I’m concerned. And that includes the pricks that want to learn PPE at Oxford too – they’re a bunch of useless, overpaid, under-experienced wankers too in my humble opinion.

  75. 75
    6EQUJ5 says:

    You think you got problems.

  76. 76
    BillyBob - Ooman Rights Legislation, just a load of bollocks!! says:

    Northumbria University, when the old Newcastle Poly was given university status, should have been known as City University of Newcastle upon Tyne, until they realised what the acronym would be !!

    Still a sh*t University !!

  77. 77
    Anonymous says:

    They’re called MPs.

  78. 78
    Tessa Tickles says:

    “The UK analysis, provided by the UK’s Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra)..”

    Hello? Oh, Wavey Davey! I’ve found something else for you to cut! An entire department! Are you listening, Davey? No?

    Oh. Cocksucker.

  79. 79
    Anonymous says:

    this is just a bit of fun. it’s surely ironic that they’re comparing it to feed the world – don’t be too harsh on them :D

  80. 80
    LoonyLeft, working hard for the people of Kirkcaldy since May says:

    >>>>Worried about Debt?™

    Are you thinking of going into Higher Education?

    Don’t know what the future holds?

    Maybe you want to pretend to want to help some African kids? Or maybe you just don’t know how to make a campaign video?

    Then you need LoonyLeft©* . We won’t just solve your problems, we’ll absolutely not solve your problems! :D Yes!!! We can find an adequate scapegoat in under 10 mins! Yes, that’s right just 10 mins!
    Maybe you want to go further and find a warm populist sentiment that masks your policy position? Maybe your policy will have the exact opposite effect than the one you intended? Maybe you even wanted that like our partners at NewLabour.

    You don’t even have to contact us, due to our promotion of Mass Surveillance techniques since the 1940s we know where you live.

    ..and don’t forget our ongoing offer to fatally undermine public sector efficiency.

    *As seen on BBC TV

  81. 81
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    “Universities don’t let people in freely, they judge people on academic ability”.
    From the president of an admissions board, midranking midlands uni. “We stand them up and hold a mirror in front of them. If it mists over, they’re in.”

  82. 82
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    >>Explain to us why , if as you believe, you are studying a subject that is going to get you a highly paid job in the future ( even though I don’t believe it)

    You are right not to believe it.

    Golf Course Management FFS!

    and 'Sports Science' (which as a scientist I find hugely bloody insulting)

    My neighbours son does 'Sports Science'. He was too thick to do anything else. Suggested to his dad he might be happier learning a trade – but it turns out he's too thick for that as well.

  83. 83
    useless аrticle says:

    I want to spank thаt girls bottom for being so nаughty.

  84. 84
    nell says:

    It’s eloquent and grown-up is it? to think that hardworking taxpayers should pay for your free uni degree so that you can then go out into the real world and earn a great wage??

    You don’t think it’s eloquent and grown-up to accept that if , after getting your degree you go out into the real world and get a great, well paid job, because of that education, you should then, over the years , have to repay the cost of it???

    Selfish view. Very selfish view. And so labour. All take no give!!!

  85. 85
    Just a thought says:

    Why doesn’t every MP, past and present, set an example by volunteering to pay back the cost of their University education, considering that they themselves are now in a financial position to do so?

  86. 86
    Old dog no tricks says:

    You missed out the planet ‘pants on fire’ :)

  87. 87
    Just a student says:

    Take a step back a second here. Read what I said. I said NOTHING about education being free. You’re assuming I want University degrees to be free. I don’t think they should be. Of course you have to pay for your education! But the fees are bad enough as they are and certainly should not be trebled!

    Once again tarring people with the same brush. Congratulations on making yourself look like a numpty.

  88. 88
    Steven Seagal says:

    They should be called “marked for death”.

    And then killed.

  89. 89
    JH says:

    Christ, you’d probably get a 2.1 for handing that post in.

    If you want to further yourself, I’m afraid you are going to have to make a contribution, way off in the future.

    Either that, or we can go back to only 10-15% going to Uni, to do hard courses.

    Up to you.

  90. 90
    Tessa Tickles says:

    Blast, you’re right. That’s in the Mendacious System, isn’t it?

  91. 91
    Just a student says:

    I couldn’t have said it better myself.

  92. 92
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Yeah – without no doubt paying any royalty or broadcast fee’s !
    Scrounging b’stards !

  93. 93
    A Nun says:

    Wales has realised that in market economy more students equals more money, and they have frozen fees. It’s suggested that pay cuts for University Vice Chancellors and top management will follow. Seems a sensible idea.

  94. 94
    Proud Dad says:

    My lad’s just got there this term to Oxbridge doing Maths…works hard & plays hard…he’s growing up fast, 8 week term, no slacking!

  95. 95
    Voice of Treason says:

    At one time only really clever kids went to university, now all the thick pricks in the country can get in. Most of them think the world owes thenm a living and many of them are studying for degrees that serve little useful purpose.

  96. 96
    MI6 says:

    I have just shit myself. watch this

  97. 97
    JH says:

    I eagerly await to hear about how you disagree with me.

    You utter, utter hoon.

  98. 98
    Rachel S says:

    I am a student at Northumbria University and was happily involved in this video, which was as the post above states, made by volunteers to raise awareness of the rise in tuition fees. I think it’s sad that this website has chosen to make fun of students who actually give a damn about their education and the future of Higher Education in this country, and the fact that we are facing major cuts, which may jeapordise hundreds or even thousands of students not wanting to come to university.
    By the way – this video was produced by Northumbria Students Union and to my knowledge none of the students invovled do Media Studies as a degree.

  99. 99
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    £100K? Really?

    I know a lot of people with doctorates that don’t earn anywhere near that.

  100. 100
    Just a student says:

    Can someone point out to me exactly where I said I don’t think students should pay for their education? As I’m pretty sure I never said it.

    I agree with paying for education. Of course I do. I’m not an unreasonable/stupid/selfish person. I disagree with raising tuition fees to £9,000 a year.

  101. 101
    Notional Audit office says:

    Now I appreciate this might be a tad difficult for some people here but how many here have actually paid a penny towards their university education/ getting a degree?

  102. 102
    jonsnownews says:

    yeah music is shit, it’s not like it’s a huge export earner for the UK or anything like that you retarded c_untwitted prick

    ok let’s legislate against music and you can make up the tax difference you c_unt

  103. 103
    Notional Audit office says:

    spot on girlie!!

  104. 104
    An MP says:

    Bloody students! Thinking the taxpayer owes them a free ride on the gravy train.
    Whatever next. A second home allowance?

  105. 105
    Dack Blog says:

    Bit of stereotyping going on here but, hey… par for the course.

    Seems simple to me. Make degrees ‘degrees’ again. Aim for 20% max of the population eligible (ie intelligent enough) for university. Make vocational courses vocational again (ie get rid of the box-ticking skills and exam-based assessment).

    Oh – and bring back a manufacturing base so that those without degrees have something to do.

  106. 106
    Notional Audit office says:

    you really should get out more

  107. 107
    Oxford Student says:

    How many of you own an Ipod/Iphone/Ipad? The technology for all of those was designed by a Northumbria Student.

    Any of you enjoy watching sport? It’s one of the best sporting universities in the country.

    “It specialises in business, arts and design, computing, environmental science, built environment, applied healthcare, sports science and psychology, and teacher education”

    Do your research?

  108. 108
    jonsnownews says:

    everyone on this site already agrees with the fuckwitted conspiracy theories so you are just preaching to the converted here mi6

  109. 109
    Edward Woollard says:

    Let’s throw some fire extinguishers! Ed will support us!

  110. 110
    Tessa Tickles says:

    They have a Facebook page..

  111. 111
    nell says:

    If you successfully complete a degree course that wins you a decent profession that then earns you comfortable sums of money, what is wrong with having to pay back the taxpayer, after you begin earning over a very decent threshold, the cost of that course over a number of years??

    Please do tell!!

  112. 112
    jonsnownews says:

    hmm the X-factor and all those shit shows – they don’t make a huge amount of tax for the treasury now that we have sold them worldwide do they?

    Anyone who wants to bad music please make up the lost tax out of your own pocket, you humourless old constipated farts

  113. 113
    jonsnownews says:

    to ban music, not bad music you c@unt

  114. 114
    Just a student says:

    Is that really down to the students though? Or is that because the government has had very little control over what courses can or can’t be taught?

    There are some courses that, to me, should be banned outright. There’s an A Level in flower pressing (or was it flower making? I forget) … What possible use could that be to anyone? But cutting ALL humanities subjects is ridiculous. Not everyone should be doing science and engineering degrees because they aren’t suited to it, just the same as not everyone should feel they have to go to University to get anywhere in life (which is what has been drummed into this generation since the late 90s)

  115. 115
    Tessa Tickles says:

    Do my research what?

  116. 116
    Notional Audit office says:

    good idea but there are different rules for MPs that preclude them from living in the real world.

  117. 117
    jonsnownews says:

    I know, lets all learn only the knowledge we have at the moment. Anyone who comes up with a new idea should immediately be rogered by one of the gay tory fucktards on this site

  118. 118
    Notional Audit office says:

    there are many hypocrites in this world not all of them are politicians

  119. 119
    Anonymous says:

    And Wales. Could someone explain to me what the Scots and Welsh governments don’t pay for that English (UK) government does? Because I’d love to know how they can afford to massively subsidise their students fees yet they don’t seem to make any cuts anywhere else to cover this. The English seem to be being shafted by the Tories who are supposed to be the English party. What the fuck is going on?

  120. 120
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    Did you enjoy the 1st Test Billy? Can’t wait for Friday, should be interesting!

  121. 121
    Anonymous says:

    Here’s hoping someone spoofs it. Maybe change the chorus to something along the lines of -:

    ‘Fuck all students,
    Get a wash and find a job.’

  122. 122
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Nail hit firmly on head chap!

  123. 123
    6EQUJ5 says:

    But the fees are bad enough as they are and certainly should not be trebled!

    I didn’t hear many complaints from students when the previous administration trebled tuition fees!!!

  124. 124
    Old dog no tricks says:

    The reason that they have to be trebled – is to pay for the useless ones which will never earn enough to pay the money back ! So you will be subsidising the loud, lazy drunken layabouts who should not be at uni in the first place !

    If you do not like it – then complain about the useless degree courses which cost more than they are worth ! How many f*cking beauty therapists or TV presenters or tourist information officers can this country need ? More to the point – how many can it afford to send to uni !

  125. 125

    Hmm – contaminated waste and shit that we can’t be arsed recycling make a goodly profit when we export them too.

    Shit is shit, whether profitable or not, you Huhne.

  126. 126
    Unsworth says:

    It might make you laugh but it makes me weep. We have seen the steady destruction of manufacturing, the loss of so many skills and crafts to be replaced by call-centres, burger-flipping and – God help us – Customer Service, whatever the hell that is. Worse, 50% of that £50k coined by the Polish plumber ends up in Poland, it’s not even spent here.

  127. 127
    nell says:


    You haven’t got to pay it back at all unless you get a job paying you more than £30k a year.

    And even then you only have to pay it back in small increments over a number of years.

    To be quite honest most students in uni now, that labour have put there, aren’t ever even goi9ng to get a job for their worthless degrees. Lot’s more are ony going to get rubbish jobs that will never meet the threshhold.

    10% of real graduates will make the threshhold over the next ten years and none of them frankly have been on these demos these last few weeks.

    These demos are just a labour smoke screen, rather like bobcrow’s ‘planned’ pensioner’s walk out into the M25!!

  128. 128
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    To be fair Tessa, he never said they specialised in English.

  129. 129
    Ah that's the problem, right there. says:

    Yes, we all paid whether we went to Uni or not, through general taxation.

  130. 130
    Dack Blog says:

    When I did mine we even got housing benefit during the holidays. But then at that time far fewer of us went to university. I got a bursary for my masters and had to compete for it. Without it I wouldn’t have done it. During both I worked some evenings and weekends – though it was easy to get a job then too.

    The rot in education – and I’m a secondary teacher – starts far earlier. Students expect to do well with little effort and that’s ‘our’ fault because the system – coursework, league tables et al – has pressured schools to wipe student arses for them. Now they expect it as a right.

    That said I have some sympathy as what seems to be ignored is the ‘psychological’ effect of starting out in life saddled with debt in stringent times when everything else seems expensive and unattainable and jobs insecure. As a working class, reasonably intelligent and ambitious individual – the thought of a forty grand or whatever debt to start with would have deterred me from trying to ‘better myself’. No matter when or how I’d be expected to pay it off.

  131. 131
    useless аrticle says:

    This is a spoof comment right?

  132. 132
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Jonathan Ive designed the cases not the internals or the software.

    He does very nice industrial design, but to suggest he designed the complete product is a little hyperbolic.

  133. 133
    Dack Blog says:

    Chapess, thanks. And not that old (as far as I’m concerned at least).

  134. 134

    Not bad, needs a bit of work.

  135. 135
    Tessa Tickles says:

    Actually, I’ll tell you what, I do have an iPod. An iPod Touch. With a dead battery.

    And do you know what? The only way to change the dead battery – I’ve googled this – is to prize the iPod’s case apart with a knife and extract the innards and then use a soldering iron to de-solder the battery – because it’s soldered onto the f*cking circuit board – and then solder a new battery onto the circuit board, and then try and cram the innards back into the case.

    Well, what f*cking eco-unfriendly retard designed that then? Ah! A student of Newcastle Uni. That figures.

  136. 136
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Rather like students.

  137. 137
    Ah that's the problem, right there. says:

    Why do you keep telling people they won’t want to go to university? I really hate that.

  138. 138
    Ratsniffer says:

    This person talks sense. Give him – her – Saint Vincente De Cable’s job.

  139. 139
    jonsnownews says:

    someone forces you to watch it?

    tell your boyfriend to stop tieing you up in front of the tv while he’s out bumming

  140. 140
    Dack Blog says:

    Let’s also not forget that those in better paid work will be paying higher taxes anyway – and paying our pensions (we hope).

  141. 141
    Just a student says:

    It’s £15,000 a year before you pay back actually. Maybe you should do a little more research before you start quoting statistics and figures to me, when I am studying right now and I know full well what I need to pay back and when.

  142. 142
    Engineer says:

    Mechanical Engineering, UMIST (now amalgamated with Manchester University) early ’80s.

    My recollections from university days were of hard work, and I wasn’t the only one. At breakfast you’d see the Medics, Sciences and Engineers at 8am, then they’d disappear for a 9am lecture. You’d meet them again staggering into the pub for last orders, suddenly to meet the arty types that had been up at the crack of noon and straight into the bar.

    No – it isn’t easy for students today, but it never has been. In my time, only 10% of the population earned the chance (I needed 4 good ‘A’ levels to get on my course), now about 43% get the chance. Education doesn’t happen for free; the costs have to come from somewhere, and the taxpayer (in case you hadn’t noticed) is hard-pressed at the moment. We could revert to a system under which fewer people earn the chance of a University education, or we could ask students to repay (on very generous terms) some or all of the costs when they can afford to. There isn’t a ‘right’ answer, but the current proposals do look about as fair as they ever could be to students rich and poor, and to taxpayers (most of whom, remember, didn’t get the chance to study at University).

    The point about apprenticeships is a good one. It makes no sense to import skilled people from overseas and pay Britons to sit at home.

    As you go through life, one thing you quickly find out is that life ain’t fair, and if you want something you have to work for it. There’s no such thing as a career path, it’s crazy paving and you lay it yourself, often with several unplanned diversions.

    Finally, I strongly suspect that the majority of students would rather get on with getting some worthwhile qualifications than go about trashing offices. Peaceful protest is fine (if a bit misguided in this case), but the office trashers are unthinking scum.

  143. 143
    ST says:

    Northumbria has carved a nice niche out for itself in engineering and design. They’ve got a good chemistry department as well.

    It’s music department however……. well actions speak louder I think.

    Incidentally, I am not defending my alma mater.

  144. 144
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Apologies m’dear.

    Neverthelss and excellend point, soundly made.

  145. 145
    Tessa Tickles says:

    Hang on, it’s a Shuffle, not a Touch.

    Whatever. It’s a piece of crap.

  146. 146
    Just Sayin' Like... says:


    Fully support funding degrees in useful subjects. Engineering, science, medicine etc. But If you insist on studying for something that will not add to the economy or public wellbeing one day you can fucking pay for it yourself. I fully accept we need people who will go on to medja and public service but it does not require a degree for them to do so.

    A useful by-product of that is that the brightest and best will want to study the funded degrees.

    I think also apprenticeships as an alternative to HE, should get much more funding. Sooner have proper tradesmen and women than people with some pointless 2.2’s in Thesis Googling entering the workforce each year.

  147. 147
    Just a student says:

    This is part of the problem too.
    Why doesn’t England have its own Parliament? Nobody knows… Or if they do, please tell me why exactly Scotland and Wales can have their own Parliament and we can’t.

  148. 148
    coarse work says:

    As you’re here, can you put the kettle on please love? Milk, only one sugar, I’m sweet enough as is it darlin’ hehe.

  149. 149
    Old dog no tricks says:

    So a teacher speaks out – public sector teacher by any chance ? Teet nibbler who never sees a penny not earned by the private sector maybe ? As full of their own self righteousness as the ‘singing scroungers !’ ?

    Hey – maybe instead of doing charity work they could get a job doing something they do not enjoy – like many if not most private sector workers ! That way they will work there way through and not have a loan to pay back ! They can even donate half to their favorite charity to make up for the time they don’t put in themselves – if they are so damn righteous !

  150. 150
    Ruth Kelly's Flood says:

    Scots and Welsh students will get reduced fees courtesy of the English tax payer.

  151. 151

    Universally Challenged, more like…

    Which frigging moron decided that having 50% of 18 year olds going on to uni was a good thing? Oh – it was Phoney Tony, wasn’t it?

    And which monocular mentalist spunked even more of our money trying to achieve this stupid goal as soon as he was injected as PM?

    Get real – the only courses that should be fully funded are technical / medical / maths – the rest should pay full fees for their courses.

  152. 152
    Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

    I am aware of the rise in tuition fees, your video does not raise this awareness any further. As a tax payer and business owner I have no problem with a lessening of the tax burden* via the medium of students paying a bit more.

    Unfortunately bleating ‘we deserve to be paid’ simply wont work, however ‘fancy’ your video is. Which it isnt.

    When I say lessening of course this wont happen… it’ll just get siphoned off and spent on some other, slightly different, useless wankers.

  153. 153

    Let’s hope they edukate em more betterer than wo them Americans is

  154. 154
    Anony Mong says:

    I see how students just like these ones give up their time to do hundreds of hours of voluntary work and charity work..

    Then they shouldn’t mind working to pay their own tuition fees, after all charity begins at home.

  155. 155
    Music is actually shit if you think about it says:

    The X Factor?


  156. 156
    Uncle says:

    My niece is studying at medical school. She expects to emerge with a £50k debt.
    In her mid twenties, trying to set up a home and a career, what an effing millstone to sling around the neck of positive and valuable young member of the burgeoning big society.

  157. 157
    Dack Blog says:

    Couple of related ‘vocational training’ related stories:

    My electrician gave up supporting apprenticeships because ‘Kids quit as soon as they have to go down a dirty manhole and expect to be earning what I’m on within six months.’

    My carpenter got roped in to helping run vocation training for carpentry at the local college. He quit in the end because of the paperwork/assessment bollocks. He said, ‘Dack – it there’s a bookcase at the end of it, and it looks okay, and it holds books – I know the poor kid can hold a fucking hammer.’

  158. 158
    Dobbin says:

    … with a bottle of Tippex.

  159. 159
    Where are Tony Blair's Expenses says:

    If we have so many trained graduates as a result of Tony Bliar’s education policies why do we still need immigrants to fill specialist jobs.

    Why don’t we do something radical like providing free university education for anyone studying engineering and the sciences.

    If I was a Media studies graduate with debts of £30k thanks to Tony Bliar I would be really pissed off.

    Are we going to send the NUS the bill for all the damage they have caused

  160. 160

    But it’s the nice shiny case that matters most – especially now that Apple’s lost the lead in the UI design race…

    Besides, where better for a future designer of pap for the illiterati to learn his trade than among the generation of retards who will buy the product?

  161. 161
    the celtic minge says:


  162. 162
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    Any story in particular MI6?

  163. 163
    Tessa Tickles says:

    Because they’d put it on expenses.

  164. 164
    barefootcontessa says:

    The art of ‘making things’ is totally dead. People will never be self sufficient or happy until they ‘make’ things again. Young people spend most of their lives looking at screens. Screens are no substitute for life, learning, or creating.

  165. 165
    Notional Audit office says:

    …. and who’s fault is that??

    not students, surely???

    the UK elites want things this way to divide and rule the population – simples

  166. 166
    Where are Tony Blair's Expenses says:

    I would provide free education for med students provided they agreed only to work in the NHS for the first 15 years of their careers. If they chose to work in the private sector then they would have to pay.

  167. 167
    Dobbin says:

    >I work full time in the education sector

    Not teaching English, I take it. God help them if you do.

  168. 168
    Unsworth says:

    “cannot bare” FFS!

    And this from someone who works “full time in the education sector”. As what, a school Caretaker?

    It’s not a question of looking ‘down on others’. What you obviously fail to understand that many simply object to such cretinous violent behaviour. If these pillocks want to change government policy they can do it by peaceful democratic means. What they are effectively doing is antagonising anyone who might have been remotely sympathetic to their view. How clever is that, eh?

    If that’s the level of intellect we’re dealing with why on earth would anyone waste their time viewing such a video? You want me to watch it? Give me a reason.

  169. 169
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Quite. ‘Glittering prizes for all’ has been the educational motto for a good long while.

    Everyone’s a winner! Everyone can get a degree in some bullshit or other?

    Years ago (when we had manufacturing industries) there used to be apprenticeships that would train young people in a valuable, life-long skill, at a level suitable to their intellectual level (from basic fitters to aerospace design engineers).

    Now that that option no longer exists, it’s Uni or remain unskilled for the rest of your working life.

  170. 170
    Just a student says:

    I’m not against paying back in the slightest. I am against a degree course costing £18,000. And remember, most students take out a loan of £3,000(ish) a year for their accommodation and food, etc. So that’s a debt of £27,000 before you’ve even started working.
    For a lot of people that’s a horrific amount of money to owe someone and it’s off-putting for a lot of people who are looking to go into University. People who could well be capable of completing an excellent degree and doing well in life if given the chance.

    I like the way that everyone has managed to avoid the simple question I raised earlier.
    How is raising tuition fees to £9k going to help the government reduce expenditure, when it is the government that needs to fork out the money in the first place!? Short-term (and we are talking short term if we are to be out of debt etc by 2014 which I read somewhere is the predicted date that we will be out of deficit) it makes NO sense whatsoever.

  171. 171
    No Sympathy says:

    They brought it on themselves though Unsworth, empty heads wish all this crap on society and empty pockets have to fix the mess.

    The future generations are going to hate these people for depriving them when they read on the forced decline of our society and squandered opportunities due to their ancestors laziness.

  172. 172

    It’s got far worse over the past 13 years, OTB, but to be honest it all started with Beveridge and the post-war statist consensus.

    Unfortunately, Maggie was only a temporary reprieve in our national decline into infantilism.

  173. 173
    jonsnownews says:

    …makes a shitload of money for the uk economy

    what exactly is your problem with taking money off the thick yanks?

  174. 174
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    You’re getting emotional Notional.

  175. 175
    ST says:

    Just read that back!!

    To be clear!!

    Northumbria is not my alma mater. Sorry chaps, for this outbreak of snobbery on my part!!

  176. 176
    Apprentice Politician says:

    We take our work ethic from MPs. Turn up when we like, repair to the subsidised bar, and study opportunities for moonlighting.

  177. 177
    6EQUJ5 says:

    DC/NC/MG say it is £21K then you pay £7 per month??

  178. 178
    HC says:

    All people should be given the opportunity to better themselves and go into a sector which they enjoy that’s the point.

    They don’t think they’re righteous at all. Many students, including myself when I was a student, worked 2 jobs, did volunteering and charity work and their degree.

    I think it is totally unfair to cast a negative stereotype over all students. I can’t get my head round, how anyone can think all students all the same? They are human beings, the same as people who didn’t go to University.

    There need to be people who have expertise in certain areas, or the country wouldn’t function. I agree there are certain degrees which are offered which perhaps do not hold a lot of ‘societal value’ as such, however, why cast judgement upon the future, doctors, teachers and economists etc?

  179. 179
    P. Doff says:

    6EQUJ5… I think Billy is on holiday in France and using one of their AZERTY keyboards.

  180. 180
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    errr hem! Typing this from my MacBook.

  181. 181
    Malcom says:

    Very very strange. In my day Student protests were always about supporting someone else who was far worse off.

  182. 182
    Dack Blog says:

    Don’t worry. The 40% of us who are shit at our job are going to be ousted and Gove’s going to get the army in – or some of those potentially excellent teachers who’ve been waiting in the wings for such an opportunity. (We’ve just interviewed 3 times for a new teacher in my dept and haven’t yet appointed. Can’t wait for these new superheroes to start applying).

    Plus we’re going to be allowed to expel the ‘included’ minority who are fucking up the education of the majority. Oh but no, wait – the school will have to fund their education even after they’re expelled which, according to some reports, could amount to 150 grand a year at one of the mooted ‘inclusion units’. So we won’t be able to afford to expel them after all, shucks.

    The devil is in the detail.

  183. 183
    Bogbrush says:

    200k pa and a job for life with no boss – 50k debt is chicken feed.

  184. 184
    Unsworth says:

    Well I haven’t paid a penny towards my degrees, but I’ve paid a hell of a lot towards others’ university education. Far too much, in my view.

  185. 185
    6EQUJ5 says:

    Couldn’t agree more Eng.

  186. 186
    HC says:

    No, Mr high and mighty. I apologise if my grammar or punctuation offend you. I’d be lying if I didn’t say I wrote my response in quite a hurry.

    Care to criticise any of your supporters use of language?

  187. 187
    Just a student says:

    I am absolutely 100% in favour of apprenticeships, internships, etc. They just aren’t encouraged enough. I am lucky in that I have been able to do several work experience placements/internships relating to my degree and I’ve been able to afford it but some people can’t (a lot of companies don’t even pay expenses!) To be honest, my experience in the real world counts for much more than my degree ever will. My degree is just a tick in a box for me. I didn’t particularly want to do one for the purpose of getting a degree, I did it because that’s the only option if I have any hope of getting a half-decent job.

    For a lot of jobs now, even junior jobs where you have little or no responsibility, all they look for is a degree. It doesn’t matter what it is, just that you have a piece of paper saying you studied for 3 years.

  188. 188
    Engineer says:

    There has been much said and written recently about education, but as far as I can remember, very little debate about what education is supposed to achieve. We’d all agree that it’s a Good Thing, but how much, for whom, and what?

    To try and give my answer, I’d say that there are two angles; the needs of the country, and individual personal development. These might sometimes conflict, but more often converge. Early education should be about ensuring that everyone has the basic foundations to get through life – the ability to read, write and deal with basic mathematics. Then, a broadening of experience in Arts, Sciences, practical subjects, and sports. Pupils can work out for themselves their strengths and weaknesses, and be pushed a little into things they wouldn’t want to do (I hated Literature and Music at school, but in later life, I’m glad I was made to study them – it opened my mind a bit). Later, people can go where their strengths allow them – higher education or practical skills, so that they can contribute what they are best at to society, and support themselves. Courses on offer might be tailored to suit the country’s needs.

  189. 189
    HC says:

    Point proven.

  190. 190
    Bogbrush says:

    Lots of the engineering degrees are really watered down now, and not worth the paper they are written on.

  191. 191
    GrandPa says:

    I’m sure you are not alone. I know of a married couple who both have excellent degrees struggling to find work and a home for themselves. In fact they’ll never get a home of their own. And as for having kids, no chance. But hey according to some here they deserve all they get! What a load of fucking shits there are here

  192. 192
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    Good word!!

  193. 193
    Tessa Tickles says:

    I think the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Executive were Labour’s spinny attempt to keep the restless natives happy. No sooner were they created, they became de-facto Parliaments which left a yawning equality deficit for England, which neither New Labour nor Blue Labour feel inclined to address, probably out of contempt but also because England no longer has a legal identity as a country – it’s an EU region, and trying to create a national parliament within the EU without EU approval might be a bit tricky.

    That’s my hypothesis, but it’s probably wrong.

  194. 194

    Err.. Maths, but I did learn to read and write coherently too.

    Maths, engineering, science (real, not social), medicine – all these courses should be free and available to all suitably qualified applicants – every other non-course should be offered at cost and if the little darlings don’t want to pay then the market for media studies lecturers will dry up.

    I’d bring back the maintenance grant for those willing to put the effort into the hard subjects too – an added incentive to study something useful to your fellow man.

    Oh, and I was the one who started the sit down protest that blocked Westminster Bridge in the 86 grants demo, so I was once a spoilt little student too – now a cynical old libertarian.

  195. 195
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Its simple – the private sector (English) taxpayer subsidises both Scotland & Wales to a huge degree above what the population earns in revenue ! They would both collapse economically (including the ‘oil’ riches) if not for this subsidy !

    (They would never have even discovered oil if not for English companies by the way ! They did not have the resources/industry to fund/provide it ! and the drilling WOULD have been in English waters only if it had been in question as to who owned the resource – as some wells already are !)

    The (Barnett ? top of head thought) formula used in calculating this subsidy is pretty much a bribe to retain the loyaly of the countries to the UK – which it doesn’t seem to any more !

    Anyway – more devoluted (tax raising) powers will be the round about way of cutting the subsidies to the Labour english hating heartlands by enabling them to raise their own taxes eventually – we’ll see how much they WANT to afford a huge private sector then ! Scottish devolution enabled Scotland to be used as a test area for legislation (forbidden by the union treaty) by Labour (which is why the smoking ban and other rules were brought in there first !) Now the Tories will use it to make them tax their people to pay for their ‘free services’ and cut the English subsidy at the same time. – And you Scots & Welsh think Labour are your friends !

    No such thing as a free luch me old hearties !

  196. 196
    Conten says:

    These kids are absolutely beyond parody. I wish I could say they were exceptions, but I teach sixth formers and unfortunately this sense of entitlement is pretty much universal amongst students – as is their dreadful spelling and grammar. Their attitudes to EMA are equally hilarious too.

  197. 197
    ST says:

    I know, I’m fucking one of them.

    But you accept it, if you work in an industry which is involved in producing feedstock materials (chemicals) you necessarily will earn less than those who add value to it. Otherwise the laws of economics would have to be turned on their head, with feedstocks costing more than end products.

    The point is I can’t flog benzylamine door to door.

  198. 198
    Bogbrush says:

    education is supposed to achieve fewer digits on the unemployment register for as long as possible and the indoctrinationof children with ‘liberal’ values – ie where one does not challenge the status quo

  199. 199
    ST says:

    You should play this one Jim, drip the introduction with irony.

  200. 200
    The course of nature with a qualification at the end says:

    We’re going to need an army of geriatric arsewipers to take care of Guido’s posters over the next few years.
    Any volunteers at £5.93 an hour?

  201. 201
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    But Beveridge was right, at the time.

    There was real, grinding poverty and widespread ill health at the time.

    However, these issues have been largely addressed (in fact were address by the mid-1970s).

    However there are still those on the left who endlessly bemoan ‘social injustice’, ‘exclusion’ and of course, their favourite, ‘child poverty’.

    I always wonder about ‘child poverty’. Could it be that the parent (singular, invariably) is fairly well to do, but just tight fisted?

    We must ‘lift’ children out of ‘poverty’ and give them a new xbox.

    Anyway, I digress. But I think Beveridge was right at the time.

  202. 202
    HC says:


  203. 203
    nell says:

    No! That’s now under old labour rules. And I know because my son graduated under those rules.

    The new rules are proposing higher thresholds. Try and be honest. It always helps in debate!!

  204. 204
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    Can’t earn £100k in their lives? Did they obtain their PhD’s on the internet?

  205. 205
    ST says:

    The Guardian is SUCH as establishment newspaper. The liberal elite’s newspaper of choice.

    “Barbarians” LOL.

  206. 206
  207. 207

    “otherwise the country wouldn’t function”

    I think you have misspelt ‘state’ as ‘country’ there.

    Either that or you are another brainwashed statist moron who thinks that the public sector has any value whatsoever apart from what it gives the private sector.

    You say you ‘work in the education sector’. Sounds remarkably like you’re an administrator of some type rather than a teacher, so that might go some way towards your confused conflation of country and state.

    There you go – a proper and fundamental disagreement for you to masticate at your (no doubt ample) leisure.

  208. 208
    Prodicus says:

    Excellent. Have tweeted #TASTE

  209. 209
    Susie says:

    Music’s one of those things which requires talent and you start doing when you’re about 3 and end up at the Royal School of Music as a virtuoso… this lot couldn’t even compose, let alone sing, their own protest song.

    If eventually having to pay for university puts off these types, it’s a very good thing.

  210. 210
    Tessa Tickles says:

    *cough* huge public sector *cough* :)

  211. 211
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    Hear Hear?

    Fully agree though.

  212. 212
    Just a student says:

    Nell, I assumed when you said “you” you meant ME. I’m studying under the old loan system as I started Uni 3 years ago.
    Under the new rules it’ll be a threshold of £21k, still not amazing pay. I have no idea where you got £30k from.

  213. 213
    Bogbrush says:

    If 50% of the population have degrees – excellent or not, their currency is devalued pro rata. Middle aged folk still think that they retain the same distinction they had when only 5% of the population had them.They don’t. Many degrees are handed out to people who would not have passed ‘O’ levels in the seventies, never mind degress.

    If all else fails – lower standards.

  214. 214
    Susie says:

    Well said Malcom.

    I have nothing but contempt for the lot of them… me me me.

  215. 215
    Engineer says:

    That’s precisely why we have the mess we have at the moment. Curing it will take a decade or two, provided the loony left don’t reverse any improvements. Sadly, there’s no guarantee that they won’t.

  216. 216
    nell says:

    Probably because an awful lot of the labour one’s, those who were in power over the last 13 years destroying the economy and pushing thousands of students into useless degrees, don’t even have a degree!! Several of them didn’t see education beyond the age of 15.

    One or two of then would have found it difficult to find a job picking up litter if they hadn’t got elected as an mp in a trash labour seat!!

  217. 217

    Dack – I wouldn’t do your job for 50K, especially under the current ethos of no discipline and no sanctions for the few who ruin learning for the rest.

    But you must agree that we cannot afford to keep funding 40+% of our youth to receive 3 years of education in subjects that will never, ever create real wealth, surely? (and no – I’m not calling you Shirley – RIP Leslie Nielsen).

  218. 218
    Anony Mong says:

    No Sir, Still a sh*t Polly!!

  219. 219
    jonsnownews says:

    yeah those fucking flute-soloists and cellists sure bring in the dollars

  220. 220
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    I do sympathise.

    Apprenticeships used to pay a proper wage from day 1, even though the apprentice was in now way productive or valuable to the business. In those days many businesses were prepared to properly invest in people and were more socially responsible than they are now.

    Oh and I hate these bloody internships where they pay nothing. It’s exploitative and excludes talented people who simply cannot afford to work for jack shit.

    Of course, the media is awash with such internships (the Guardian being a prime example).

    “If you can’t afford to work for nothing, don’t bother working for us” seems to be the message.

  221. 221
    Dack Blog says:

    Throw insults when someone’s just trying to get a – seems to me – reasoned/alternative point across (and politely)… well, you’ve kind of lost the argument. Just like throwing a fire extinguisher from a roof.

  222. 222
    Ed Balls says:

    Utter Fucktards.

    A small consolation is that students of Northumbria ‘University’ have long careers in the food service industry ahead of them.

  223. 223
    Derek Trotter MP says:

    And thank fuck for a new generation of young innocents who fall for the scam.
    What do they, as little more than children, know and understand?

    Luvverly Jubberly

  224. 224
    Seagal fan says:

    Let’s hope they’re not Hard to Kill.

  225. 225
    ST says:

    Apple are complete shits. They’ll sell you music file formats that can’t be ported outside their own software and every software download from them is accompanied by what amounts to malware. The new iPod shuffle will only work with their own earphones…bastards!

    They used to be brilliant, but they have become arrogant and dismissive of complaints and the customer.

    I wish Acorn computers were still going, oh for the ARM architecture *sigh*.

  226. 226
    Dack Blog says:

    That’s exactly the point I’ve made, earlier, below.

  227. 227
    Just a student says:

    I don’t see how you can judge what a ‘non-course’ is though. To me, in all honesty I’m not a massive believer in studying art, or comedy…things that should, if you are good at it, come naturally. But I suspect you would include my course in your list of ‘non-courses’. I study Multimedia Journalism at one of the best Universities for journalism/media in the UK.

    Also I hardly think I am a ‘spoilt student’. I just feel a great sense of injustice that the people who happen to be born a few years after me will pay a great deal more than me, if they choose to go to University… And the best thing is that the entire reason that this country is in a bad state economically is down to older generations. Most of the people that this debt will be pushed onto aren’t even able to vote yet (or didn’t vote in May) – how is that fair??? It’s the burden of older generations… People like Cameron et al who didn’t pay a single penny for their degrees, who are now earning hundreds of thousands of pounds and laughing all the way to the bank…

  228. 228
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Lol !!!

  229. 229
    Anony Mong says:

    I thought it was advertising to illustrate the perils of going to a sh*t university to learn media ‘soft’ skills.

  230. 230
    jonsnownews says:

    How many world financial crises have music students caused?

  231. 231
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Oh! I assumed poster meant £100K p.a.

    ‘My bad’ as the cool kids say.

    But who wouldn’t earm more than that in a working lifetime?

  232. 232
    Derek Trotter MP says:

    Agreed. They’re so self centered, egotistical, narrow minded, avaricious, poncing, useless fuckwits, it’s either that, or a career in politics.

  233. 233
    Tessa Tickles says:

    You are Jacqui Smith’s husband and I claim my £10.

  234. 234
    Just a student says:

    I really appreciate that someone took the time to read what I said and reply in a thoughtful way.

    I agree with most of what you’ve said actually. I just don’t see how cuts and then raising fees can be justified – not only in the context of the fact that overseas aid has *increased*, but also because it directly contradicts what the government is supposedly trying to do. Reduce expenditure, fine. But how does charging £9,000 for one year of a degree course reduce expenditure when the government have to pay out (through the Student Loans Co) in the short term.

    Also to be honest given the state of the country, I know I would rather not stick around and wait for it to get worse. I’m planning on leaving for a few years and living abroad, as do a lot of students. The government won’t get the money back straight away.

    It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

  235. 235
    X-Factor? KY-Factor more like says:

    Do these deeply untalented zits imagine the lamentable tripe they served up on that video is evidence they posess microgram of talent worthy of sucking ever more money out of my emaciated wallet? Fucking hell even the most desperate busker whips these mummys boys and girls to shreds.

  236. 236

    Cutting all humanities courses would indeed be ridiculous.

    But how about funding the hard courses, and charging at cost for the humanities?

    Let the market decide – the consumer (the student) could then decide whether £20K or so is a fair price to pay for their media studies course, and the supply would then adjust.

    Silly idea, isn’t it? Try as I might though, I can’t see anything other than emotional arguments against it.

  237. 237
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Can’t wait for them go behind the paywall. That’ll fuck ‘em.

    Wealthy lefties want everything for nothing but will no doubt couch their objections in some half-arsed ‘moral’ stance.

  238. 238
    Anonymous says:

    Considering most bands don’t go to university, and the biggest earners for us are generally older bands anyway, I’m not sure how music degrees help that much

  239. 239
    Engineer says:

    That’s the consequence of sending a greater proportion of the population to University. It’s inevitable, and not necessarily positive.

    The problem for employers is how to sort out decent degree courses from the also-rans; sadly, there are too many of the latter, and by the time a student finds out that the course they have studied is a dud, it’s too late. (Not all Mechanical Engineering degrees are accredited my the I Mech E, so won’t allow a route to professional qualifications. That’s often not made clear to students when the sign up for the course, which is a disgusting way to treat them.)

    Too many graduates appear in the workplace with an over-inflated sense of entitlement. Curing that is something most of us don’t have the time to do; if they won’t do the menial tasks we all have to shoulder, they’re out, fast.

  240. 240
    Anonymous says:

    Bunch of spoilt kids who think they know it all and know fuck all. They’ve never been married, had kids, held down a full-time job or had the responsibility of a mortgage. They should grow up and live in the real world for a while – then they’ll have something to complain about. Titting little brats. Grrrrrr

  241. 241

    There, there, young lady – calm down and have a Madeira my dear…

  242. 242
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    The ARM achitecture is very much alive and well old sport.

    I agree Apple are shits, but they do make the best gear by a mile.

  243. 243
    Anonymous says:

    Noocassell Poly (which itself emerged from Rutherford College of FE).

    Basically, it’s a sixth form college for fuckwits who don’t have the brains or application to go to a proper University, and judging by this clip, any musical ability or even self-awareness. As far as I’m concerned, what taxpayers are paying now for the current generation of students in Northumbria is already money wasted, and the place should be shut down immediately.

    Frankly, any “student” putting themselves on the web like this just invites ridicule from taxpayers. Chucking fire extinguishers attracts the law as well, a good thing.

  244. 244
    X-Factor? KY-Factor more like says:

    WE are entitled, we are entitled, we are entitled, mwaaaaahhhh wheres all the money gone? Mwaaaahhhh, shit I don’t care who’s paying, give me more. Wealthy and rich spoiled kids, demanding poor people fund their vanity degrees. Parasites.

  245. 245

    Or degrees in

    carrot picking
    bed making
    leaflet delivery
    pizza cooking
    collecting cockles (Inc study of local tide tables)
    un licenced taxi driving for beginers

    then we could fuck them all off and give these prized positions to our sponging classes

  246. 246
    Derek Trotter MP says:

    We’re so lucky that the Oxbridge educated elite has steered Britain on the course toward enlightened governance.

  247. 247
    nell says:

    ‘when it is the government that needs to fork out the money in the first place’ ??

    What don’t you understand about the fact that a government forking out money is actually a government spending taxpayers hard earned cash!! Hmm??!! Like OUR money!!!

  248. 248

    because we no longer have any industries
    we no longer need aprentices

  249. 249
    ST says:

    Beveridge was, more or less, right.

    Want, Disease, Squalor, Idleness and Ignorance

    What have government’s ever done to tackle idleness? And for the socialist trolls who will point to the nationalised industries that Thatcher removed, the work must always serve a purpose otherwise you may as well pay people to be idle.

    Ignorance, is another improperly tackled “giant”. Successive government’s have decided to destroy ignorance be redefining knowledge. Even the ignorant and knowledgeable today and so we are all equal.

  250. 250
    jonsnownews says:

    yeah like traders in banks, that’s a real job which only costs society, err, all it’s money

  251. 251
    X-Factor? KY-Factor more like says:

    This ridiculously inane video is the only thing they will ever be momentarily quite well known for a couple of weeks for. Talentless idiots who have just confirmed that further education is an expensive waste on them.

  252. 252
    Red Ed's Blank Sheet of Paper says:

    Forget that crap song, it was utter garbage.

    I need some good jokes for tomorrow’s PMQ. Who’s got the script ???
    I also need a better nasal spray to rid me of this nathty code.

  253. 253
    ST says:

    The post war consensus I would put more down to Keynes rather than Beveridge.

  254. 254

    look on the bright side “PoP’s”
    they will never have to pay back
    all my hard earned tax money !

  255. 255
    Nadine Dorries (70% made up sh*te) says:

    They should live in the real world of awaiting a call from the Daily Telegraph to inform one that i’ve been fingered.
    It’s enough to drive an upwardly mobile MP to suicide!

  256. 256
    Just a student says:

    I am totally against devolution. Scots don’t even want to be part of the UK, always whinge and moan about how horrible the English are and how much they want independence…. Why don’t we just give it to them and see how well they fare? You’re right, they would collapse. I say let ‘em.

    This is completely off topic though, I guess. Just another one of the things that I think needs to dramatically change.

  257. 257

    Unfortunately that’s down to people leaving schools with Maths A-levels that are below the level that I studied at O-level in the 70s – the first year of most technical degrees is spent teaching the poor little darlings up to the old A-level standard, and even then the emphasis on coursework rather than examination leads people not to retain what they have learned.

    Even when my little sister did her Maths degree in the early 90s, she was asking me questions about stuff in her 3rd year that I covered in my first term at uni in the early 80s.

    It’s not all Liebours fault – the rot had set in long before in the secondary education system.

  258. 258
    Tessa Tickles says:

    There was a fabulous letter in the Telegraph just over a year ago, from a young lady who had graduated a few months earlier but couldn’t get a job. Employers didn’t want to know. She was quite fed up and couldn’t understand why she was still unemployed, given that she had a degree.. in philosophy.

  259. 259
    Mad, Bad & Dangerous Gordon McRuin says:

    Twenty five ??

  260. 260
    Sir Nigel Ponsonby-Smallpiece says:

    Oh Guido

    I despair.

    Many of your readers seem to be under the illusion that education is for everyone. Well, I’m afraid to have to say this is total folly. Education is and always will be for the upper classes. We have to maintain our position in the world and it will not be served by trying to encourage working people and their offspring to better themselves – it can’t be done. Only those with position and status can possibly make anything of themselves via travail at Oxford or Cambridge. I mean, really, are there any other universities worth their salt? I should say not!!

    No, this education malarky is just that. The lower class upstarts are just trying to make a name for themselves. Let them be glad to only work down the mines for 16 hours a day – it could be longer!!


  261. 261
    Nadine Dorries (70% made up sh*te) says:

    They should live in the real world of awaiting a call from the Daily Telegraph to inform one that i’ve been fingered.
    It’s enough to dr*ve an upwardly mobile MP to suicide!

  262. 262
    Peter, Paul, and Mary says:

    Elf’n Safety says you can’t fly a nasty polluting Hercybird around in circles over a built up area, much less fire live ordnance into an “educational area”. You have to send them to a land called Honalee instead.

  263. 263
    Teabagger says:

    Shoot on sight

  264. 264
    nell says:

    You’re the one who said £15k sweetie.

    And in fact whether it’s £15k, £21k or £30k is irrelevant.

    The issue is the Govt is not asking you to pay back what you have borrowed, as a student to get your profitable degree, until you are earning a decent sum of money.

    If you are a rubbish student, with a rubbish labour degree, which most students at the moment are, who are never likely to get a decent paying job (if a job at all), then you are never going to have to pay it back anyway!!

    So what is the issue??!!

  265. 265
    Prodicus says:

    Nah – grads earn £100k more than non-grads *over a working lifetime*.

  266. 266
    Anonymous says:

    No like plumbers, builders, salespeople, office workers, cleaners etc etc etc. Like I say, people who live in the real world, doing demanding jobs, with demanding lives. Not people doing media degrees who think the world owes them a living, whose biggest challenge is getting to the next level on their games console.

  267. 267
    Delhi belly says:

    After 20 years of an exponential rise in University education it is time for a period of consolidation.

    Tuition fees are something of a red herring. There is no point in duplicating and diluting quality, by providing same courses across the country.

    Centers of excellence are required, not educational Diarrhea. University was never about staying at home.

    The Uni Tutors who are fuelling these protests are of course saying otherwise.

    Now that students will have to pay towards the true cost of their education they should question the value of the education they are receiving.

  268. 268
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Where where?

  269. 269
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Stop worrying about injustice – and study for your degree ! Life is unfair and most of us taxpayers have also paid for the scum in parliament who got their free uni courses !

    As someone who had the benefit of a private education – I’ve not had ANY ‘higher education’ at the states expence as I did not get the chance to attend uni ! My parents by the way started out extremely poor – worked to get comfortable and went without a lot of comfort and security in order to get me a decent education ! They did it – I’ve made use of it ! And the taxpaying leeches have just grubbed off me and my family for f’kin’ ever !

    Hence I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever ! Governments of either shade have never done anything worthwhile to help me – even though they have stolen excessively from me and my family in various taxes for their own gain, ego trips and useless scheming electorial bribes (like the LibDem Pledge) ! A slight aside to mention the destruction of the country and culture I love finishes my explaination of why I lothe the ‘scummy’ (lowlife & political) classes.

    Life is a bit of a be-atch ain’t it !

  270. 270

    The ARM architecture came from which university, again?

    Oh, yes – it was Fenland Poly, wasn’t it?

    Hang on, no – it was Cambridge, and at a time when only 10% got to uni and A-levels were worth studying.

  271. 271
    X-Factor? KY-Factor more like says:

    It’s the fucked up fairness doctrine in action once again. None must fail, all are equally good / talented / clever, even when it’s patently obvious all are not.

  272. 272
    HC says:

    No, I’m not an administrator Paragnostic.

    Thank you Dack, it seems that people don’t appreciate what you say on here, unless it’s in some way degrading or offensive.

    I got the bare minimum from the state for my university education and now pay my taxes, quite happily may I add and repay my student loan. I have no problems with doing this.

    I think by your standards that should at least entitle me to an opinion.

    I don’t think these students should be ridiculed for what they’ve done. So what if they had fun making this? Is that not allowed any more?

    Why take the time to scrutinise what people have done in their spare time? I highly doubt, if they meant to be controversial or offensive that this video would have been allowed to represent all the students of the University/Union.

    A common misconception is that students want free education, many understand they need to pay a price for it. However, as noted by the BBC today perhaps not the most expensive in the world?

  273. 273

    My son and daughter both went to uni both got degree’s
    both came out with big debts
    both got jobs both paid off said debts
    never once heard them whinging about having to pay for their education
    did hear them say that their degree’s could have been completed in half the time
    if they had spent twice the time at uni
    my lad used to go in on a friday for a lesson of one hour

  274. 274
    6EQUJ5 says:

    So Just a student, you have ignored my posts and only answered nell’s???

  275. 275
    Bob Geldoff says:

    Just send us the fecking 7 billion or we will all come over there and sleep wit ure women and display our huge inbred ears and fat red necks that look like a baboons arse
    Yer soft feckers

  276. 276
    Vin Dicktiv says:

    Impressionable young people falling for old bollocks as told to them by their elder and wiser politicians?
    They deserve all they get.

  277. 277
    ST says:

    Okay, so your not against paying for a degree but it should cost less than £18000.

    Well what are you prepared to pay? And what do you expect for that payment? If what you expect and are prepared to pay don’t match then the tax payer will still have to contribute won’t they? And that includes those who choose not to go to university.

    You’re actually making a very strong argument for a fully market based model. Let universities offer different courses at different costs so you can decide what you are prepared to pay.

  278. 278
    Tessa Tickles says:

    I think the £750bn structural deficit and £4.8trillion national de*bt were more the fault of spendaholic politicians rather than bankers, but in the spirit of fairness, let’s hang them all.

  279. 279
    Dack Blog says:

    nell – you should give stereotyping/brushtarring a rest and try a tad of empathy now and again. Being totally incapable of even considering an opposing point of view shows a distinct lack of emotional intelligence.

    You’re ‘four legs good, two legs bad’ when it comes to politics and policy. A bit ‘troll-ish’, in other words.

  280. 280
    jonsnownews says:

    duh, how about…..

    Work out what music the yanks want and listen to and give shit loads of money to, then do it better, sell it back to them.

    cf. every successful uk pop band

    so studying what makes shitloads of money for the UK economy is quite a good idea

  281. 281
    HC says:

    What a ridiculous point of view!?

    I can assure you at the University where I work, many Undergraduates have children, own houses and have worked in a full-time job for years!

    You can’t just type cast a section of society like that.

  282. 282
    Crikey says:

    They try to give the impression that they have to pay upfront. Has no one told them that they don’t pay a penny unless and until they are earning above a certain amount?

  283. 283
    X-Factor? KY-Factor more like says:

    There is absolutely no idealism displayed at all by these group of self serving mummys boys and girls. It’s all me, me, me. A tribute to thirteen years of everyone’s a winner, regardless of how dim they are, state education.

  284. 284
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    I don’t get what laws of economics you are talking about there.
    If the folks who make the chemical do all the hard work, its possible that they’d get 80p and the folks who eloborate it and sell it might only get 10p each.

    I fear the greatest problem is the salesmen know how to sell themselves.

  285. 285
    ST says:

    Well in the short term the expenditure is neutral because they’re cutting the direct government grant to universities.

  286. 286
    jonsnownews says:

    Where is the backlash against Gold Course Management studies from you old farts?

  287. 287
    jonsnownews says:

    Golf Course lol

  288. 288
    Can i flip my second home here? says:

    Students would be better served by all expenses paid fact finding junkets to places such as the the Seychelles and Turks and Caicos Islands, like wot we endure.
    That’s what i call a field trip.

  289. 289

    You’re right – I’d make Multimedia Journalism courses available at cost, and good luck to you if you wish to pay for it.

    I view journalism as a good trade if you can write coherently, and I’m sure that the multimedia aspect probably makes it nice and pretty, but I’d rather my taxes fully fund an engineer than pay a penny towards your course – writing about things is socially useful but adds no real value to anything, other than chip wrapping, whereas at least engineers produce something useful and usually profitable.

    Oops – got all Bernard Levin there with my run-on sentences and convoluted phrasing – sorry!

  290. 290
    Mad, Bad & Dangerous Gordon McRuin says:

    British jobs for British workers !!

  291. 291
    Peter says:

    Yes, an appalling lack of judgment.
    How dare the little shits use this song!

  292. 292
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    I don’t really believe that figure. Theres a lot of ifs and buts about it.

    But mainly that theres no real way of knowing what would have happened to an intelligent A-level student of 10-40 years ago who decided to go straight into work.

  293. 293
    Ma Coaton says:

    I’ll do that for free !!

  294. 294
    Just a student says:

    6EQUJ5: Your first post sounds right, if we are talking about the NEW system that will be in place next year-ish. They’re proposing a threshold of £21,000.
    I’m currently studying so I’m under the old system which is why I said £15,000. For me, when I graduate, if I earn over £15k I have to start paying back.

  295. 295
    Dr D'Eathrattle says:

    Yes and when you go into hospital remember that some of those junior doctors who may have to make life and death decisions have been allowed into med school under nulabour’s “inclusive” policy of turning a blind eye – ahem -to lower exam grades because they are from a rough area or an underperforming school. These days it is regarded as elitist if you are too clever or come from a middle class background. So you have to be rejected in favour of one of nulabour’s chosen client groups. Will the tories change this? hahahahahahaahahah!

  296. 296
    My Bugbear says:

    Quite agree about the timescale. Many if not most University courses can be completed in half the time and more.

    I speak from experience.

  297. 297
    Dack Blog says:

    You sound bitter. You’re not really selling the marriage/mortgage etc option.

  298. 298
    Elgin's lost his marbles says:

    I understand that Northumbria University was initially to be called the City University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, until someone clocked the acronym. Perhaps Her Majesty ought to amend the Charter to the original as a tribute.

    Has no one suggested that Universities might take a look at their costs? 6 students paying £9,000 could share a Senior Lecturer for intensive tuition and pay him/her £54,000 pa. What’s wrong with that?

  299. 299
    Blimey says:

    Nauseating. They make me heave.

  300. 300
    Anonymous says:

    Exactly! Stop trying to learn the lyrics and start trying to master, ” Do you want fries with that?”.

  301. 301
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Oh come on Unsworth, that’s a bit of a low blow.

    My typing, spelling and grammar goes down the pan when I’m posting on here and expect many others suffer similarly.

    I just let it all out in a sort-of stream of (un)conciousness.

    I don’t think you can accurately judge a person’s intellectual capability by their adherence to strict rules of spelling and grammar here.

  302. 302
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    did rooney go there then?

  303. 303
    Anonymous says:

    Yes Crikey, they have been told, but it doesn’t suit their motives to take it on board.

  304. 304
    Haddaway an shyte says:

    Lurd a bollacks man. Send em heer ta Whitley bay.

  305. 305
    X-Factor? KY-Factor more like says:


    Do you realise how remarkably trite and ill educated parroting garbage ad catchwords, makes you sound to adults? Thought not.

  306. 306
    Nick Clegg says:

    Life was so simple when i was a student.

  307. 307
    mrs Fawkes says:

    Thanks to you all for upping our hit count, its great for us to get so much coverage.

  308. 308

    Dack – there’s a difference between trying to get a rise out of someone who obviously has very fixed beliefs in the goodness of the state and insults.

    The coherence of HC’s argument falls apart when you reject the premise that the state is good, so I think I was being fair, if a little hyperbolic as is my wont.

  309. 309
    Gordon ( SoldGoldAtThe ) BottomBrown says:

    Gold Management ?? That’s ME !!!!

  310. 310
    Anonymous says:

    “…University where I work…” – for all those oxymoron spotters out there.

  311. 311
    nell says:

    That is so true. my son had a friend at plymouth who boasted he got his degree by doing less then 7 hours a week study.

    My son did 14/18 hours a week study in nottingham and worked another 15 hours to earn some of his costs , but it was hardly onerous was it??!!

    We are in tough times here and students too must take a reality check!!

    Of course so must people like bob crow and vince cable. We are past the stage where we are going to excuse very obviously loopy people like gordonbrown and the militwits pretending that they are living a normal life like the rest of us!!

  312. 312
    HC says:

    First of all, how very hypocritical of you to imply that caretakers are uneducated in some way, when the whole point people on this forum are trying to make is that students need to understand what a real job etc etc…

    I completely agree with you, I find the violent actions of all those involved at events such as Millbank disgusting.

    I don’t condone any violent acts and after the demo, my peers and I all agreed, what they did completely undid what the peaceful protestors set out to do. I can understand why people who were previously sympathetic are now outraged and on the offensive. But, this discussion is about the students who made the above video. They hardly seem the types to throw down their microphones and pick up their fire extinguishers, do they?

    I don’t understand why the video can anger people to this extent? And provoke such offensive comments? I mean is there really any need?

  313. 313
    John Knows says:

    The original title was University of Northumbria at Newcastle. Most of its courses wouldn’t challenge a chimp.

  314. 314
    Mike Hunt says:

    Good for him, well done!

  315. 315
    Lift up a rock... says:

    Normal life.

  316. 316
    Anonymous says:

    No. Northumbria thinks it has a nice niche in engineering and design. In actual fact, it will never compete with the Russell Group institutions and its graduates will be unemployable in anything other than public sector makework jobs.

  317. 317
    X-Factor? KY-Factor more like says:

    Oh dear, your lack of even a basic education is showing. Clearly uneducatable.

  318. 318

    All that A/V equipment and computing power for the Media Studies students doesn’t come for free though – and the cost of the admin staff at most ex polytechnics outstrips the cost of lecturers.

  319. 319
    Anonymous says:

    That’s racist.

  320. 320

    Why the fuck are these thick bastard students attacking the police ?
    why are they chanting their imature slogans at the police?
    it is not the police who are trying to make them pay to go to uni
    do they want the police to stay away so they can torch central london ?
    i would let them
    issue a state of emergency and order the police to stay back and shoot dead anyone causing criminal damage put snipers on all the roof tops and shoot the fuckers
    enough is enough
    also anyone arrested on these demo’s who is not a student gets an extra five years on top of what ever sentence they get and are banned for life from every university in britain !

  321. 321
    Sleepless in Kirkaldy says:

    Congratulations. You are right to be proud. High odds that he will get a decent job and contribute something – developing knowledge, making money and paying lots of tax. Now that is exactly what we want as a society

  322. 322
    Martin Day says:

    Its bear not bare! you dumb arse full time educator!

  323. 323
    Old dog no tricks says:

    See my post (268)

    Right – I’ll give you Doctors ! Also Engineers and most of the hard science disciplines. And I’ll agree to taxpayer funded degree courses for them being acceptable.

    Teachers – should learn on the job in a part time part study role (and save employing teaching assistants) !
    Economists – should study mathematics etc. and then apply for the job at an economic based company based on their desired direction. Get trained on the job !

    In fact rather than a list – I’ll just say that you get ‘experts’ from experience ! Which is why on the job learning is the best way forward !

    As for most public sector work – we just do not need it ! There are exceptions – but I’ve listed and justified them before and I’m not writing a book here !

    Classing all students the same – is not what I do – but it is a typically luvvie way of classing them as all the same ! I specifically noted the drunken/lazy/layabouts on worthless courses as whom I was addressing. I quite except that there are a few deserving students ! why then do we have so many undeserving ones !

    You keep forgetting the main thust – life just ain’t fair ! Doing any job for long enough gets tedious and unenjoyable ! Its never helped knowing that so many self appointed hero’s live off the back of your (and your families) hard work !

  324. 324
    Bled White Taxpayer says:

    I agree that University degrees should not be free. Where we probably disagree is that I think degree costs should be charged to students at full market rates, plus some nominal interest. If you can’t afford it, well then either don’t apply, or take out a commercial loan backed by the future higher salary you will earn. Universities will still be over-subscribed, and every post-graduate job that actually needs the holder to have a degree will still be filled. The world will keep turning.

    Free education should end at 18. After all, as Liam Byrne so memorably said, “there’s no money left”.

  325. 325
    Lucy says:

    That is what drives me mad!!! I am a student and have no problem paying my £3000…and if it had been £9000 a year I still would have gone! you dont have to £9000 in your pocket each year to pay, so poor students are no worse off and are not going to be ‘priced out’ ! grrr bloody students! they are just mad because its going to cost them alot more to do their bullshit fake degrees which they only do for the three extra years of not having to get a job.

  326. 326
    Just a student says:

    That’s where you’re completely wrong. It clearly is useful – how else would you be able to know what’s going on in the world if it wasn’t for journalists?!

    Not saying engineering courses aren’t worthwhile – they are – but so are a lot of other courses. No, I don’t build bridges, but true journalism (not saying any papers in the UK conform to this) aims to represent and educate the public, and write about things that are in their interest. You should know all about this, actually, seeing as you’re on the website of someone who does exactly this and is essentially a journalist in all but name.

  327. 327

    I commend this motion to the House.

  328. 328
    The USA's Best Contribution to 20th Century Culture. Period! says:

    Use this song then, no words but amazing arrangement from ’63!!!

  329. 329
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    See above you twat

  330. 330
    LardArse says:

    Nell, does this also include the likes of the royals, david beckham (human being extraordinaire) and david cameron – all exceedingly rich

  331. 331
    Mike Hunt says:

    Alas very true.

  332. 332

    I’d hazard a guess that these mature students work hard, study hard and haven’t got the time or the inclination to worry about the fees increases, let alone protest them, no matter what sort of course they’re on.

    So yes – perhaps it is typecasting to lump all students together, but that doesn’t alter the fact that we can’t afford the number of students that Labour wanted, and some changes are needed.

    Fully funded technical degrees, with the rest at cost – that’s the way forward if we want to get out of the ridiculous public finance black hole that Labour have landed us with.

  333. 333
    nell says:

    This was aaron porter’s organised student rally in london today was it??

    Fragmented kiss chase – the guardian called it. Mostly 13 year olds from a london comprehensiv who had no understanding of the economics of a university education; just a desire for a bit of fun.

    Very impressive aaron – you’ll make a very credible replacement for jack straw in the labour party when he finally retires to an old folks home which will be quite shortly!!

  334. 334
    LardArse says:

    you’re Bill Wiggin and I claim my £5

  335. 335
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Just answering (and expanding on) the question asked !

  336. 336
    Dack Blog says:

    Journalism is a vocation – given the option, would you prefer to learn on the job and get paid rather than study and end up in debt? It’s a hard profession to get into without a degree/nepotism, I admit, but… what if?

    The only vocational qualification I did at uni was my PGCE. The uni-based elements were useless (a lecture on ‘the history of the comprehensive school’, for example… although I did enjoy listening to my bewhiskered old don rambling on about the Brontes in tutorials). Everything worth learning I learned on placement in schools.

  337. 337
    LardArse says:

    it’s not only the fault of the left FFS

    the elites in this country are only wealthy by virtue of their exproppriation from working people. how does 4 million unemplyed go into 500,000 jobs FFS

  338. 338
    Just a student says:

    Were you at the demonstrations? Did you see how many students were peacefully protesting, and how many students were vandalising and being violent towards the police?

    What’s that? No. Oh. Didn’t think so. Don’t talk about what you don’t know. I was there. 90% of students were, and are peaceful. Have you heard about the UCL Occupation? Guess not. Don’t see much press coverage of it because it’s a sit-in, no one has been punched in the face and nothing has been vandalised.

  339. 339
    Blodwyn Jones Evans prospective student. says:

    Here in the valleys we are used to the English taxpayers forking out for our lifestyle choices. Happily this tradition will continue with student fees.

  340. 340
    jonsnownews says:

    Students –

    They borrow a load of money, and spend it in the local economy, getting ripped off quite frequently. As such they are a very good way of putting demand into the economy where it is needed most, local and small businesses, landlords etc.

    Or you could just print a shit load of money and give it straight to the idiots in banks who lost it all in the first place, and they can spend it on yachts in tax havens.

    Hmmm, tough one for you there, old people…..

  341. 341

    My son and daughter also worked
    the problem is Nell that over the last 13 years labour has gradually built up a whole generation of the something for nothing culture where if you didn’t fancy paying for it there was always away to make the tax payer pay for it
    well i for one have had enough non of my family have ever claimed a penny from the state and never would my kids were brought up in a working family and as such when they finished their education they went out to work
    it’s just the way they have been brought up
    i for one have had enough of the somethiong for nothing culture people who have never done a days work in their life being given more money than people who have have worked hard to pay for them to have it
    it’s all wrong and it’s got to stop !

  342. 342
    David Cameron says:

    well said, sir

  343. 343
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    “did hear them say that their degree’s could have been completed in half the time”

    Kids are cocky like that you know. its some sort of childish delusion that leaves you by the time you’re 40.

  344. 344
    X-Factor? KY-Factor more like says:

    The risable Spelman dunderhead slips in her own half formed bullshit on the subject too. Jesus Christ, when can someone with even basic knowledge of the subject, freely debate on live tv and radio, with these liars and cretins?

  345. 345
    HC says:

    As Old tory biggot said, I like him tend to rant on these things, so the odd spelling mistake I hope is excused, by such a refined character as yourself ‘dumb arse’.

    I never said I was an educator – I said I worked in the education sector

  346. 346
    Lucy says:

    Actually to be fair… the Libdems didnt really make a promise they didnt stick too… In the same week that they spoke to a group of students during the campaign saying they wouldnt raise fees, they spoke to another group of people telling them that that was a completely unrealistic plan that wouldnt work….. sooo if you were in that room, they havent broken any promises :P

  347. 347
    vince cable says:

    oh gawd, she’s off again

  348. 348
    X-Factor? KY-Factor more like says:

    While we are constantly fed shit from the political class and told we have to get used to rations, because of ‘climate change’.

  349. 349
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    Theres a slight irony there.

    Many of us did indeed get something for nothing at university. Well over 13 years ago.

  350. 350

    “i for one have had enough of the somethiong for nothing culture people who have never done a days work in their life being given more money than people who have have worked hard to pay for them to have it
    it’s all wrong and it’s got to stop !”

    Hold up there a cotton picking minute!

  351. 351
    nell says:

    Don’t know about davidcameron, but I doubt lardarses like prezza, uddin, gorbalsmick, foulkes, sugar, gordon, bliar, mandy, alicampbell, shriekyshreti, kevan, ainbustinagut, themillionairemilitwits, the silverspoon inhermouthharpyharriett, dearpollytwaddle of the villaberlusconni, bobcrow of the goldplated villa with servants in cuba, and the rest of the labour troughing crew have a problem about making themselves rich from our taxes!!!

  352. 352
    Mike Hunt says:

    Perhaps this should serve to help focus the minds of potential students as to which course they should choose.

    Oh dear, there go all the useless BA courses……

    Grammar schools, proper O and A-levels and hard courses for the elite.

  353. 353
    Just a student says:

    I’m in complete agreement. I’ve written quite a lot about vocational qualifications, internships and apprenticeships down this page. And about how I think I would benefit from them rather from a degree.

    It’s hardly my fault, though, that not a single employer would even consider me for a job if I didn’t have a degree. And I wouldn’t even have been able to get the extensive work experience I’ve had were it not for the fact that I’m currently on a related degree. It’s a tick in a box for me. I don’t want to do it but I don’t have a choice.

  354. 354
    Ewan Calott says:

    I thought the best bit was about a minute in… it looked like a shot from the nose of a missile about to blow the fucking building up.

  355. 355
    nell says:

    Bless aaron. You are very predictable.

    Pity you don’t earn your own living!!

  356. 356
    Looniversity of TheLeft. says:

    University is no longer about learning to think for yourself. It is about reducing a person’s potential down to that of a brainwashed lefty muppet who must look to the State or the Collective for the answers to their problems. Left wing education has a similar effect on the mind as having one’s frontal lobes removed.

  357. 357
    Victim says:

    Bollocks. Students destroy areas. Headingly in Leeds was once a thriving civilised leafy suburb. Now it’s a student ghetto shithole.

  358. 358
    Dack Blog says:

    Ffs Parag. You had beliefs once, as you’ve admitted. Give someone a break for being young. (You were young once as well ;)

  359. 359
    Hang The Bastards says:

    The daft phuckwits dont pay it off unless they make a good living.

    Feckless daft twats that dont even bother to check the facts.

    Make the bastards pay ! Then they wouldnt go do those useless degrees.

  360. 360
    Ludwig von Mises says:

    Keynes was and always will be, wrong regarding economics.

  361. 361

    Here in intellectual valley, we are used to the taxpayers forking out for our lifestyle choices. Happily this tradition will continue with student fees.

  362. 362
    HC says:

    I agree changes need to happen, but not to the extent that the current coalition are planning.

    But again my intial point here was to defend the above students, who I still think don’t deserve the verbal beating they receive on here. Why not encourage people to be creative in their spare time? They aren’t menices to society, just doing their bit for what they believe in.

    Free education isn’t mentioned in their video.

  363. 363

    I disagree – the model for the NHS was largely the cottage hospitals that communities had created for themselves in the 20s and 30s, and had it been kept to that rather than turned into a state behemoth, and grown at a natural rate, we’d be lots better off today.

    As far as the dole goes – yes, there is an argument for temporary, transitional help, but it should be time limited so as not to encourage the idle. Same goes for housing benefit – this has distorted the rental and property market very badly, and needs to be curtailed.

    Free education – I’m all in favour of it, but it needs to be taken back to an exam based system, where you need to learn to do well rather than produce coursework based on Wikipedia.

    Beveridge went too far, and approached it from a bureaucrat’s viewpoint – that was his error.

  364. 364
    Dack Blog says:

    Old dog – I know we teachers teach because we ‘can’t do’… but surely you’d want us to have some grounding in our subject?

  365. 365
    Liberal Whip says:

    Yes Sirree!

  366. 366
    Hope you are right but.... says:

    Or he might join the Liebour Party and look for a nice taxfunded sinecure somewhere? Oxbridge produce many parasites, because they have the connections to get the really cushy publicly funded jobs.

  367. 367
    Music Producer says:

    G for effort. Production values ZERO.

    If you’re that sh*t at Media a career at the BBC beckons for sure!

  368. 368
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Ok – but don’t you think that any student with a grain of intelligence would work out that a degree course in media studies would not be worth the outlay (its taken because its ‘soft’ – if its soft – thousands are going to take it – for a couple of jobs which might require it – so few in fact that the companies requiring people who have the potential would get trained up !) Yet they still sign up ! Then moan that no-one else wants to pay for humouring them !

    Look in the real world – not everyone gets a prize ! It should be easy for anyone with enough up top to go to uni to work that one out too !

  369. 369
    Long Suffering Self Employed says:

    Community Charge pays it, the pie chart you get with the demand shows a big majority of this tax collection + the rest made up from the Taxpayer (sometimes called the Government when they want the credit but FFS it is the taxpayer I repeat, it’s the f*cking taxpayer it is, it is…that’s to you Gordo and the lying cabal of liebour) is spent on Education, Education, Education!!!

  370. 370
    Get up in the morning slaving for bread Sir, Ooh. ooh, me Isr*alites says:

    Nor do you by the amount of time you have to post party bollocks here.

  371. 371
    Sir Lancelottery says:

    Morte d’Arthur you meant William!!?

  372. 372

    I did say it was socially useful, but that is different from real value.

    If I write an excellent article on some burning issue of the day, it is consumed, understood by some and ignored by others, and then becomes tomorrow’s chip wrapper.

    If I build a bridge that saves people a round trip to cross a river, the time savings involved have a very real value to the economy.

    And I wouldn’t describe Guido as a journalist as such – merely a well plugged-in gossip merchant who gets the occasional scoop, but I do enjoy his work.

  373. 373
    6EQUJ5 says:

    Just a student: Thanks for your corresponding post. I am not against students, my son qualified 18 months ago with a debt of £20K, that really pissed me off!
    My daughter will be going to university next September and will probably have a debt in excess of £40K, this pisses me off even more.
    ‘Yer don’t get owt fer nowt’, education ‘back in the day’ may have appeared to be free but as I can verify, it wasn’t.

    Bliar and Brown are the protagonists, as always someone else always has to clean up the ‘shit’ that Liebour leave behind, read your History.

    Dack Blog: Spot on. nell = Vinegar Vera

  374. 374
    jonsnownews says:

    Guido, why the fuck are you wasting your time writing criticism of JH’s music? Any study of music is pointless and should be stopped! Are you a music student?

    Oh wait, the cognitive dissonance-ometer has going off, back to my important research on shit blogs.

  375. 375

    I’m gowing two amewicka to get my digwee
    coz vey ar weely stupid

  376. 376
    innit says:

    They are not representative of students, they are a few lefty nonce trouble-makers following in the footsteps of previous lefty nonce student trouble-makers like the ex-commie fucktard Jack Straw.

  377. 377
    The Sky's always blue on Planet nell says:

    Nor do the others across the house, or hadn’t that entered your sphere of reality?

  378. 378
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    Don’t wish too much for internships. In France it appears that many young people HAVE TO do them. No choice.

    No wonder theres 300,000 french people living in London. At least they’ll pay you photocopy things.

  379. 379
    Just a student says:

    Old Tory Bigot: Exactly. There are wider issues within the education sector than simply ‘how do we finance them’. Prioritising Universities over other forms of education is foolish.

    Engineer: I was always against Labour’s University target. I remember when it happened (I was very young) and I remember thinking even then, that it was ridiculous.
    The repercussion is that now nobody looks twice at someone without a degree, so people like myself, who would have benefitted from some form of short course / multiple short courses and some kind of internship or apprenticeship, have been effectively forced into Uni. What else are we supposed to do? And I’m not going to lie and say University has been amazing.. or horrendous. It’s been difficult for me, and great fun at times, but I always wanted to just get straight into work (especially now!). It’s just not possible to get the sort of jobs that I’m capable of without a degree.

  380. 380
    Gordon Brown says:

    I’ll make a statement about this when I take PMQs tomorrow.

  381. 381

    Dack – you’re right – I did have beliefs once – I grew up a socialist (albeit a very old fashioned Bevanite), then became enamoured with anarchism, and have finally settled into a middle age of cynical libertarianism.

    It’s the assumption that the state is the same as the country, and that the public sector is as good as the private, that I challenge – not always politely but always in the hope of provoking thought.

  382. 382
    Old dog no tricks says:

    That is part of the problem – you WANT to go to uni so you should be able to ! And everyone else should pay for it ! Its the typical sense of entitlement shown by the baby popping benefit scroungers !

    If you want a TV you pay for it ! Simple enough !

    If the state NEEDS you to go to university – the state pays for you to go !

    The state – should fund what is NEEDED and teaching people to polish toenails ain’t something we need !

  383. 383
    Here's hoping says:

    Or he could become a communist and sell our national security secrets to dastardly foreign powers.

    Or become a smug medya luuvie like steve fry.

    Probably not though! Well Done.

  384. 384
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    I might have mentioned in the past, that its probably as sensible a course as many half arsed “business studies” courses.

  385. 385
    The wisdom of the crowd says:

    The NUS play on the gullible and the naiive. These students protesting in the snow are nothing but fodder for the left. Silly idiots are too inexperienced to realise they are being played for fools by fools.

  386. 386
    Just a thought says:

    What about the Roshana Choudary degree for cutting to the bone economics?

  387. 387
    Neil and Glynnis says:

    You can say that again boyo! Lurvly lurvly lurvly.

  388. 388
    Cross Party Consensus says:

    Today’s young people are just tomorrow’s electorate.

  389. 389

    It’s not that the extent of the changes is wrong (though it is, for different reasons to yours) – it’s that the whole idea of tertiary education funding needs to be radically rethought, and none of the three main parties seems to see the idiocy of the current system which encourages the study of soft subjects at the expense of the hard.

    Technical degrees should be free – all others charged at cost. Let the customer decide – and blow this aspiration of 50% university education.

  390. 390
    HappyUK says:

    Give ‘em a hot bath and 200 hours community service.

    Then a slap and a ‘get to your bloody lectures’

    At one time you could become a chartered engineer with a HNC. Now you need a bloody masters. Says it all really.

  391. 391
    jonsnownews says:

    Sport studies is obviously bollocks. There aren’t the jobs out there for that.

    There are however, shit loads of golf courses and increasing numbers of old people who want more of them, which will make more money if they have efficient management.

    Media studies and music and golf course management are all bullshit but nevertheless they are industries that make money, who gives a shit if they aren’t academic? Plumbing isn’t academic either, it still needs studying for a bit before you can start paying tax back into the economy, so it’s worth subsidising

  392. 392
    In reality says:

    no! it’s about getting pissed and trying to get laid!

  393. 393
    Just a student says:

    I don’t quite get if you’re criticising me personally for choosing a media-related degree (not media studies, by the way)

    Either way, I’m in agreement that a lot of the media studies courses, and combination courses (oh how I hate combination courses – history of art and spanish? WTF?) are a waste of time. Unfortunately, I’m not in control of the country. I think certain courses should be cut back, definitely. And University places should therefore be limited to people who are capable of completing a useful degree to a good standard.
    I really don’t think that the issue here is funding. I’m quite happy with funding the way it is, I don’t see the need for change to funding and raising tuition fees. Students didn’t cause the financial crisis did they?!
    The whole University system needs reforming, just not in a financial way. That would automatically get sorted out if worthless courses were culled and places limited.

  394. 394
    Anonymus says:

    I can’t see how anyone would do things like eat beans on toast to save 50p when they’ve got a very theoretical looking £40k to pay back.

    Its almost priming people to have lavish lifestyles they cannot afford.

  395. 395
    Cross Party Consensus says:

    At one time, an MP had to be a upright, honest, above reproach…. I can’t go on, says it all really.

  396. 396
    Unsworth says:

    “I don’t think you can accurately judge a person’s intellectual capability by their adherence to strict rules of spelling and grammar here”

    Well, I do. It’s a matter of care and attention to detail.

    Now, what about my (several) other points?

  397. 397
    nell says:

    What about gordonbrown economics?

    quantitative easing = printing money to spend spend spend until you have the country on the verge of bankruptcy.

    Then you blame it on the next government coming in!!

  398. 398
    Snotsicle says:

    I had to look-up what an EMA was, as such things didn’t exist when I was at school.

    Frankly, if they haven’t even learned to construct a grammatical English sentence by the time they are 16 then one has to wonder what exactly they have been doing at school for the previous 11 years. As a taxpayer, I don’t feel at all inclined to fund a further 2+ years of their non-learning.
    The ones who genuinely wish to learn and better themselves will earn their money by delivering newspapers – as it is their own money they will take their studies far more seriously.

  399. 399
    jonsnownews says:

    It doesn’t matter you utter moron, only one Beatles is required to take money of the stupid yanks for 50 years. That’s worth plenty of students who don’t pay back a few thousand quid.

  400. 400

    I think Nell’s put her share in – she’s every bit as entitled as any of us, and lots more than some, to express her opinion, which is normally cogent and well reasoned.


  401. 401
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Shouldn’t worry she’ll probably go part time (to assist in keeping the shortage of doctors to its maximum) and then pop out a few kids (whilst claiming full pay on maternity leave at taxpayer expense) then go back a couple of days a week – fully benefitting the country for the cost of her training !

    Just think what the difference would be if a man had trained to be a doctor in her place ! (I know it seems sexist – and I’m not really a sexist person – just pointing out another problem with the leftie equality system of education – aimed at making the education system more female friendly !) Simply that in general – state funding for uni gets more back from the male population ! Not that I would for a second like to deprive any female the chance ! But it IS an issue which is NEVER discussed !

  402. 402

    You think Headingley’s bad? Try Chapeltown!

    P.S. Headingley was Peter Hain the orange bank robber’s fault.

  403. 403
    nell says:

    Yes but the HNC then ( which most people studied over 5 years – 3/4 nights a week ,whilst in full time employment , ) was far more difficult and valuable than any master’s now!!!

  404. 404
    The next government says:

    And we blame it on the last lot!
    What a splendid wheeze nell.
    Do you think the voters will buy it?

  405. 405

    To start I thought the students had a point but the more I see of them on the news and the more I hear there sence of entitlement the more I want to screem into the telly not on my taxes. Education is an investment in your own future if these knobs cannot see this then there not smart enough to educate.
    Theres nothing to pay up front and you dont pay back your loan unless you get a decent wage.

  406. 406
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Perhaps a new degree course should be offered – after all we would need to ensure that the job applicants are all fully trained ! 3 years should suffice !

  407. 407
    HC says:

    Here here!

  408. 408
    HC says:

    Ok so i did that to rile the spelling police – yes i know it’s hear hear!

  409. 409
  410. 410
    c.eng says:

    Tuff shit on them then !

  411. 411
    Lord Haw Haw says:

    Next year I am doing NVQ level 2 in pet shop welfare, will it cost me £9k?

  412. 412

    Hmmm – borrowing money to inject into the economy is kind of what caused this mess in the first place, and expanding student numbers with the availability of cheap credit has contributed to the buy to let boom that has helped to distort the property values in this country.

    And printing money to give to bankers? I’m afraid that’s the fault of the last lot – they should have taken the Icelandic approach and let them go bust – I remember Mervyn KIng suggesting this at the start of the Northern Rock scandal, and getting firmly slapped down for his pains.

    Sorry, but that’s an epic fail even by your low standards jonsnownews.

  413. 413
    nell says:

    And we are worrying about america’s views as being exposed by wikileaks??!!

  414. 414
    Vince the Sage of Westminster says:

    I’m pretty sure they will Dave, especially if we print them some more money

  415. 415
    13eastie says:

    Gоlly ― іt’ѕ аmаzіng hоw thе іntеrnеt mаnаgеѕ tо fіltеr оut іrоny ѕоmеtіmеѕ…

  416. 416
    Elgin's lost his marbles says:

    It may do, but they wont learn anything…

  417. 417
    Phd student with his head up his Professor's arse says:

    I am studying toe nail clippings. Your money is well spent…er…in the bookies, the pub and clubs. Bye fools.

  418. 418
    nell says:

    Well gordon no. I don’t think the electorate are going to buy into the view that your profligacy is the fault of the present government.

    You are frankly, inevitably tainted with the stain of printing money for a reckless spending policy on fripperies l whilst deliberately failing to fund our armed forces in a war you continued to force them to support!!!

    Not the most courageous of stands is it??!!

  419. 419
    c.eng says:

    I can agree with this having studied for both an HNC and an engineering degree.

    The HNC was tougher especially doing one day plus two evenings a week while working.

  420. 420
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Have a nice day !!!!

  421. 421
    Unsworth says:

    Did I say that caretakers are uneducated? But, so what if they are? They are not required to educate children. From your remarks we can now see that you are not involved in education – except in some peripheral sense.

    Who knows what ‘type’ of students these people may be? Just give me a sound reason to spend my time watching their offering. For that matter would you care to identify the ‘type’ of student who throws fire extinguishers, trashes others’ property, attacks policemen and women, destroys police vans, vandalises buildings etc etc etc?

    It’s not the video which angers, is it? It’s the attitude of the students who seem to believe they have some God-given right to our money and (in some cases) to carry on like hooligans. Is there really any ‘need’ for that?

  422. 422

    Too right Nell – one of my first jobs was in a lab, and the guy I worked for had an HNC which he’d got in the 60s. There wasn’t a lot he couldn’t do in resin chemistry, despite having learned it on the job.

    Me – I’d given up chemistry at O-level and I’d never have been able to do the job without Arthur’s support – I later worked with PhDs who knew far less than he did.

  423. 423
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    What ‘(several) other points’?

    All I saw was a rather incoherrent rant because someone said ‘bare’ instead of ‘bear’.

    Playing the spelling/grammar nazi immediately points you out as a pedantic prick.

  424. 424
    Templar says:

    Jonsnownews, I love that you refer to me as “Humourless”. Apparently you don’t understand the irony of a posting like yours judging me as “Humourless”.

    We should support degrees that stand to benefit mankind – Physics, Chemistry, Biology etc – and those that support our economy – Civil Engineering, Medicine to name but a few – but for those that are clearly vanity degrees, explain to me why I should pay for them? Education isn’t free – someone pays – and it only stands to reason that those that benefit the most should pay the most. I don’t benefit from YOUR music degree any more than you will – either you make millions and can afford to pay it back, or more likely you will spend your life asking “You want fries what that?” in which case your time at uni was a waste, and why should I pay for that?

    Decent, worthwhile degrees are still scheduled to get grants, the poor are going to be subsidised and hopefully the 50% of degrees that are utterly pointless will vanish, leaving more money for useful stuff. Explain to me why everyone should go to uni? The majority of jobs don’t require degree anyway.

  425. 425
    Jungle Fever says:

    So why does every celebrity pretend to rejoice that they is evicted when the only reason they are there is to stay there?

  426. 426
  427. 427
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Twice ! And behead them to make sure it worked properly ! And drop them in a vat of acid to be absolutely perfectly sure !

    See – it ain’t just students on stupid courses we don’t like ! We just don’t like funding worthless dumb ars* b’stards in general !

  428. 428
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Yes but you don’t need to go to a university to study plumbing – admirable and vital trade that it is.

    University has now become an extension to Sixth Form. A sort of limbo where one postpones one’s inevitable joblessness.

  429. 429
    Unsworth says:

    Your position is that ‘peaceful occupation’ is perfectly OK? Never mind disruptions and inconvenience to other uninvolved parties? Well just leave your address here and I’m sure several people will be more than willing to ‘peacefully occupy’ the premises.

    And “no one has been punched in the face and nothing has been vandalised” Jolly good. Is that not how it should always be?

  430. 430
    NUS public relations expert says:

    give us yer fucking money. bunch a ca’nts. wankerz

  431. 431
    Old dog no tricks says:

    How about…

    I am going to be Labour Leader netht electhun !

  432. 432
    Alex says:

    Ha, I see or hear that they have used Antares Autotune to get their voices to the right pitch – that very distinctive warbly sound. If they can afford that they can afford student fees.

  433. 433
    Unsworth says:

    Too bad, then, but here goes:

    What you obviously fail to understand that many simply object to such cretinous violent behaviour. If these pillocks want to change government policy they can do it by peaceful democratic means. What they are effectively doing is antagonising anyone who might have been remotely sympathetic to their view. How clever is that, eh?

    If that’s the level of intellect we’re dealing with why on earth would anyone waste their time viewing such a video? You want me to watch it? Give me a reason

    There should be enough points there for you to consider.

  434. 434
    nell says:

    Well derek thank god we are no longer under the control of paranoidgordon, graspingsugar, idiotprezza, hidingubderthedeskaintbustinagut, troughing kevan and philhope, the brazenbaronessmarbling hervilla in banglaland, alicampbell the pornwriter, bliar ‘i’m outtomakemy£millions,
    straw don’tcountyonmetobeloyal, and harpyharriett’Ilookaftermyselfand mrsdromey’ and
    the millionairmilitwits-we’lldowhateverwehavetomakemoney!!!!

    The lovely labour party!!

  435. 435
    The PM D. Beckham says:

    Guido could you or one of the tech savvy readers be able to capture a moment from Sky News tonight?
    At 21:38 the presenter said (whilst showing a photo of David Beckham) ‘The Prime Minister David Beckham and Prince William are in Zurich tonight…….)
    Well worth a watch.

  436. 436
    will says:

    brilliant, most people employed by the state have it easy.

    diversity workers is a great wheeze

  437. 437
    Old dog no tricks says:

    I think I’d fall on my ars* laughing if my gardener told me he had a degree in golf course management !




  438. 438
    AC1 says:

    Tin foil hats to be banned?
    ChemTrails crowned most moronic conspiracy?

  439. 439
    Dack Blog says:

    The public v private argument is as pointless as the left v right argument. State interference/control, private interests/manipulation. I’d prefer not to be a slave to either.

    State, country, nation… pretty meaningless when you can be indebted, go bankrupt, be owned. Now – where does the power really lie?

  440. 440
    nell says:

    Go on then student person. Please tell me why I, as a taxpayer, should pay for your ‘FREE’ degree.

    What are you, with your ‘worthwhile’ degree, going to do for me the taxpayer , when you graduate??!! Hmm??!!

  441. 441
    Dack Blog says:


  442. 442
    AC1 says:

    >We should support degrees that stand to benefit mankind – Physics, Chemistry, Biology etc

    No we shouldn’t. Through the miracle of Capitalism those degrees that serve to close shortages most will pay the most and thus the loan will be most attractive to.

    Loans to Students ALWAYS beat extortion.
    Loans for education is a PERFECT use for debt (if someone is borrowing rationally and knows they have to pay it back), and thus increases the wealth of society.

  443. 443
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    you are perhaps correct there, but theres got to be a load of 1st equals.

    eeh when i were a lad there were nowt but kennedy assasination and moon landing tools.

  444. 444
    AC1 says:

    Do you know the best thing?

    Now you’ve paid for the degree, you’ll value it alot more,so any SHIT lecturer is going to get a whole heap more flack.

    Result, less crap lecturers & better education.

    Capitalism works.

  445. 445
  446. 446
    Tim says:

    A Harry Cole post if ever I saw one. Boring!

  447. 447
    AC1 says:

    Surely Speciesist?

  448. 448
    Old dog no tricks says:

    OR – the police could kettle them into the house of commons to ‘chat’ with our traitorous friends ! you know – a sort of meet your constituents day ! Take your student to work jobbie !

    Explain face to MASS why you’ve screwed up the whole chabang over the last 50-60 years just so you could bolster your own ego’s !

  449. 449
    will says:

    Dear Rachel,

    In order to get my post degree qual. (I did not go to uni but worked as a civil servant instead in the DHSS for years in a inner city office with bulletproof glass at reception). I went to night school whilst working full time and having to pay the fees as well. This was to for a career change.

    So i feel little sympathy for most students complaining about the system.

    Also have any student bars closed recently because of lack of beer being sold, well no so students still have money. The real poor students were most probably to busy trying to study before goingonto thier part time jobs not going on marches or protests.

  450. 450
    Helpful says:

    Why do you keep going on about the success of X Factor as a justification for public funding of degrees in Media Studies? Just checked out Simon Cowell’s cv and not only does not have a degree in Media Studies he didn’t go to University or FE.
    It looks like he got his break in the business because of his father and then worked his bollocks off.

  451. 451
    Help for Heroes says:

    Nell, and others, please help support this 14 year old raise funds for Help The Heroes

  452. 452
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    Not a creche – more likely a “special” school

  453. 453
    nell says:

    Errm- I do my 40 + hour weeks, grow my own vegetables, raise children, attend pta’s, neighbourhood watch meetings and support students that I think are worthwhile, trying to study for their useful professional degrees.

    I’m not prepared to support people who aren’t worthwhile . That incudes prezza, bliar, brown, uddin, foulkes, crowe, aaronporter…….

  454. 454
    AC1 says:

    >Fully support funding degrees in useful subjects.

    So how much have you voluntarily contributed to scholarship funds?

  455. 455
    Jimmy Francis says:

    Utter bastards. They seem to have lost all perspective on how they, as a group, are now viewed. Let ‘em pay.

  456. 456

    AC1 – I know you’re even more extremely libertarian than I, but even I can see the benefits in funding technical degrees and letting the rest take care of themselves.

    We currently need more scientists, engineers, doctors etc – and to allow the timelag that your proposal would imply would be deeply damaging to the country as a whole.

  457. 457
    AC1 says:

    > Worse, 50% of that £50k coined by the Polish plumber ends up in Poland, it’s not even spent here.

    That’ actually not true. The 50K they earn probably causes a 100K boost to GDP from their work, Plus they are paid in pounds, so the money has to be recycled back into the UK economy.

  458. 458
    The next government says:

    To pay for some mug to wipe your arse in your dotage.

  459. 459
    jonsnownews says:

    What is a clearly useless thing to study?

    Define “useless”.

    Useless is good. Useless is a condition of beauty. People work to pay for things that are good and beautiful, even if they are mistaken, eg Coldplay., they pay good money for useless stuff.

    In the long term it makes money, it’s called “investment” and most companies do it, why not the state?

    You make a few good investments and a few bad ones, the good more than make up for the bad. So a few fuckwits spend a lot of money in the local economy studying nothing and don’t get a job at the end of it, so what? The rest of it more than makes up for the odd gardening studies diploma.

    As for physics being useful, well that is a really anal debate waiting to happen, there’s plenty who would argue it’s not proper physics if it’s useful, same with maths, are you going to defund mathmatics too?

  460. 460

    Or as I like to say, if you can’t spell ‘college’ (collage, colege, collegge, etc.), you shouldn’t be going to college. But according to Polly Toynbee and the Guardian, cutting EMA is ‘wicked’, just as this lot seem to think that reworking the funding of universities is equivalent to African famine.

    However, it’s these sorts of things that make me think the students and Guardian have fundamentally misread public opinion – everyone in the staff room at the school where I work think EMA is a complete racket, and most of them are lifelong Labour/Lib Dem voters. You’ve got to be a very special and very out of touch leftist to believe in the sort of crap these protestors are pushing.

  461. 461
    A Sweet Old Lady. says:

    Well dears, I have read all the arguments and what a clever bunch you are.
    There is a place of learning that allows you to study any subject matter of your choosing. You can study at your own pace. You can skip from one subject matter to another when you choose to. If you fail to learn the subject matter the first time round, there are plenty of opportunities to learn again.
    You can study anywhere, on a hill, on the beach, in the bath, anywhere. You can study your whole life and it costs absolutely nothing. This my dears is the toughest and most precious learning of all and it can be studied at the University of Life.

  462. 462
    Dack Blog says:

    As I figured. The system is fucked and the baying hoards blame the fucked-over. Brainless, eh.

  463. 463
    AC1 says:

    > The art of ‘making things’ is totally dead. People will never be self sufficient or happy until they ‘make’ things again. Young people spend most of their lives looking at screens. Screens are no substitute for life, learning, or creating.

    Totally, utterly and completely wrong. What’s important is that people voluntarily exchange their time for mutual advantage (Google COMPARATIVE ADVANTAGE). It really doesn’t matter if they spend their time making something in a box or making something in electrons.

  464. 464
    c.eng says:

    I lurve the way these idiots sing in phoney American accents.

    If they were US citizens they wouldn’t get a cent of public support for their chosen type of university education.

    They’d have to try for support from industry for a meaningful vocational degree which would rule out Ph.Ds in Politics, Do-goodery and General Studies.

  465. 465

    Shit lecturers should always get flack – even in the heady days of free education for those suitably qualified, there was always a short term opportunity cost to going to uni.

    That’s freedom in action too – I don’t call it capitalism, because that only characterises one model of free enterprise.

  466. 466
    6EQUJ5 says:

    Concur c.eng. the degree course was far easier at the time in the late 70’s.

  467. 467
    AC1 says:

    Why? They’re the course that will pay the most when they graduate, so they can afford the fees?

    There’s no need for quality lowering and price raising taxpayer subsidy.

  468. 468
    Taff says:

    Something very wrong though about the English taxpayer funding the Welsh parliament to fund the Welsh student in England.

    They are taking the Taffy piss

  469. 469
    Anonymous says:

    Fecking brilliant
    What amazing talent from our universities
    we should be proud of talent like this

    ps beats working for a living

  470. 470
    nell says:

    Sorry you don’t seem to be endorsed by Help for Heroes so presumably you are a cheap try at publicity by using them!!!

    Failed try!!

  471. 471

    No, I think it is beyond parody, it’s enough to make Tom Lehrer give up satire.

  472. 472
    Hilarity says:

    Ken Clarke is in front of an audience of former prisoners, penal experts and Peter Hitchens on Newsnight!

  473. 473
    Clare Solomon says:

    Your so right and so sweet.

  474. 474
    AC1 says:

    It’s a pity the RISC people behind ARM didn’t get into GPUs and massively parallel architectures as they’d have made an absolute killing.

    The money seems to be/research in Taiwan (NVidia).

    Oh and Apple is crap.
    QuickTime Shite
    Iplayer Shite
    Iphone Shite (forward a txt oops you cant)
    and expensive too. You know pastel colours cost the same to render…

  475. 475

    Dack – I think you misunderstand my public / private argument there.

    I agree that one of the proper functions of the state is to provide education for all appropriate to their abilities, to give them the best chance to prosper.

    But being employed by the state does not create wealth – it consumes taxes so we should keep the involvement of the state to a minimum, while giving the best opportunities to all who can benefit from them. Targeting the education to subjects that will create wealth seems only sensible to me..

  476. 476
    jonsnownews says:

    No quite right – students are a really bad bet to lend money to. Bankers are a great bet, and “it’s the fault of the last lot” that the USA and most of the world is in a massive financial crisis. Right, got it now.

    Also, Iceland is a good model for a massive economy like the UK. Thanks for that insight.

  477. 477
    AC1 says:

    Any time you reward failure you encourage dysgenics. The “welfare state” is the grand prix of failure rewards.

    Given time you breed a disaster.

    Citizens Dividend funded by a tax on site values = Job done.
    No Harmful Income tax, Corporation Tax, NI, CGT or Stamp Duty.

  478. 478
    jonsnownews says:

    All taxed massively more than the incomes of bankers, who, err, caused this problem in the first place.

  479. 479
    HC says:

    I work in Higher Education, not in a teaching position nor an administrational sense, but my work has a lot to do with Postgrad students so I think I have quite a good understanding of different types of students.

    They never asked you to watch this video – it was this infamous Guy Fawkes who posted their ‘offering’. The video was made as part of a national competition to raise awareness within the student population. It was never meant to be forced upon people who either a) have no interest or b) Do not support the Funding Our Future campaign.

    My whole point is that students are people not just ‘students’, I don’t have a preconceived idea of what kind of student does – but the people who did that are thugs and should be treated like criminals, they destroyed property and put peoples lifes in danger, which is of course unacceptable.

    I disagree that students think they have a god give right to tax payers money, that’s not the case. I just think it’s ridiculous that half the people on this, have had some form of higher education, which was mostly likely party funded by the the state, and yet are here calling students all the names under the sun.

    They don’t deserve the labels they are being given on this forum – this is thew only point I’ve been trying to make

  480. 480
    jonsnownews says:

    ken rulez, he smokes fat “cigars”

  481. 481
    AC1 says:

    Honours Degree in Computing Mathematics.

  482. 482
    Engineer says:

    No, it isn’t only the left, but much of the education ‘establishment’ is rather left-leaning, and has been allowed far too much latitude. They do need to be drastically reined-in, and the sooner, the better. Most people only get one shot at education, and too many are being badly let down by the system at present.

  483. 483
    jonsnownews says:

    And they would end up in daft right wing think tanks making up reasons to go to war and get British soldiers killed.

    God forbid anyone studies politics, the science of trying-not-to-have-stupid-wars

  484. 484

    Iceland is a good model – they didn’t steal from future taxpayers to prop up the greedy and feckless who had ruined the banks, and are now back in growth. I fail to see why the size of an economy should require a different model, especially a statist one like yours.

    You fail again, retard.

  485. 485
    AC1 says:

    >But the fees are bad enough as they are and certainly should not be trebled!

    The fees received by the Uni aren’t being trebled. You’re just seeing the full cost instead of the taxpayer.

  486. 486
  487. 487
    AC1 says:

    >I am against a degree course costing £18,000.

    But degrees cost £18,000. That’s the price.

    Moral Question worth ONE POINT- Multiple Choice.
    Is it better that
    a)you who consumed the course pay it
    , or better that
    b) some random group who had nothing to do with the course pay it?

  488. 488
    Hilarity says:

    Hitchens will do his usual schtick.

  489. 489
    nell says:

    Oh gordon and sarah if you really want to help our real heroes then join here with us , the real loyal people who support them and donate to them!!

  490. 490
    Help for Heroes says:

    Oh dear, couldn’t be further from the truth, in fact.
    I am not connected to the young person who has done this and I did not know that you couldn’t raise funds for a charity unless you were’endorsed’ by said Charity.
    You seem to be getting cynical in your old age. Mixing with the wrong sorts, perhaps?
    And to think I used to stick up for you!
    Sleep tight.

  491. 491
    QWERTY says:

    Northumbria University? Never heard of it, must be one of those special needs places for leftie mongs who like it up the arse. I think a lot of BBC types probably went there.

  492. 492

    Ale, jazz, hush puppies and fat cigars – plus he was one of the few to talk sensibly about the Iraq fiasco – what’s not to like?

    Besides – he was one of the most successful chancellors of the last century by the simple virtue of not fucking about with things too much.

  493. 493
    AC1 says:

    And education before 18 should be paid for by the parents.

  494. 494
    Anonymous says:

    Alan Duncan, Francis Maude, Bill Wiggins, Tim Yeo and a cast of hundreds.

  495. 495

    Both sets of proposals look equally stupid to me, but the NUS has that extra surreal absurdity that only comes after a few subsidised Jaegermeisters in the SU bar!

  496. 496
    jonsnownews says:

    Well fuck me but you need to go some bloody where to study plumbing, it doesnt’ come out of thin air. You need to spend several hours a day with an actual plumber to learn plumbing.

    Same with media studies and all that bollox – you got to learn it somewhere and it might turn out to be a real money earner for the economy, just like plumbing is, or was for the Polish when they were here anyway. Guess why we liked Polish plumbers for such a long time? They realised their earlier state-sponsored investment in their skills to undercut local plumbers on the basis of quality and expertise.

    Universities are just economicallly efficient ways of investing in the economy. All the student loans and grants get spent locally and a good bit of it goes straight back to the excquecor in the form of booze and fags.

  497. 497
    MP says:

    You wouldn’t have to contribute to a fund for maimed young men and women if you didn’t send them into a hellhole in order to prop up a corrupt regime.

    What am i saying!

  498. 498
    Saint Vincent de Cable says:

    Just because I wrote the policy doesn’t mean I have to vote for it. Remember, I’m a limpdim.

  499. 499
    BBC type says:

    Wouldn’t touch it with yours, old bean.

  500. 500
    nell says:

    Best charity in the world!!

    Students who think they have have a right to free education, never mind whether that education is useful to society. Beauty, elf&safety, hairdesign, coutningtownails etc……

    Go on define it alongside this charity!!

  501. 501
    jonsnownews says:

    Errrrr, Iceland sold shit bonds to UK council tax-payers. Ok they dont’ steal from future taxpayers, but actual Uk taxpayers.

    A shitty small economy like Iceland’s defaulting means fuck all in the world economy. How much money flows through Reykyavik compared to London?

    The state just spent our entire wealth on a few bankers, in order to prevent a depression. If you fail to see why the size of an ecomony means using different models, perhaps you are a banker by profession?

  502. 502
    Dack Blog says:

    Yes, well. I guess it depends on your definition of ‘value’.

  503. 503
    Cross Party Consensus says:

    Every generation produces a new intake of suckers funding our pensions.

    Long live British Democracy!

  504. 504
    jonsnownews says:

    Oh shit Paragnostic, we agree on something!

  505. 505
    Mr Ned says:

    I bet you two (AC1 and sockpuppet) still believe the official nine-eleven conspiracy theory don’t ya? Cos like it’s official and governments never lie do they?

  506. 506
    jonsnownews says:

    Fuck it I thought it was the good dying Hitchens not the twatty sub-Littlejohn one

  507. 507
    David Cameron says:

    With nell’s support, we’ll continue to send british kids through the meat grinder of Afghan democracy.

  508. 508
    AC1 says:

    Tuition fees are not rising. The cost is just being fully revealed to the person doing the degree.

    As any Austrian School economist will tell you, a more accurate price is a more accurate signal and guide and thus will help the economy.

  509. 509
    AC1 says:

    I run a small company.

    The excessive amount we are punished for creating profits would easily fund another employee or two.

  510. 510
    Helpful says:

    For jonsnownews and the other collectivists who keep going on about the state investing:

    The same problem exists whether the expenditure is on a revenue item or a capital item. Let me know if you need pointing in the correct direction for the difference between a revenue item and a capital item.

  511. 511
    TATS MUM says:

    How about only letting down and out mingers apply to be doctors ?
    they would never have any chance of getting pregnant
    unless TAT was admitted to have a cucumber removed from his arse
    and the minger took pity on him and became his first leg over

  512. 512
    nell says:

    Why haven’t you sought their endorsement then?

    That would be the best route wouldn’t it ??!!

  513. 513
    David Cameron says:

    We benefit from the fact that students, like service personel, are mostly young impressionable know nothings, ripe for exploitation.
    What larks!

  514. 514
    Gordon Brown says:

    I ran a strong economy. There’s nothing wrong with lots of borrowing and spending.

  515. 515
    650 bleeding hearts says:

    I’ll remember that next time i’m at the fees office handing in my expense claims.

  516. 516
    AC1 says:

    > Oh – and bring back a manufacturing base so that those without degrees have something to do.

    Run by unicorns? UK manufacturing has never produced so much, they just do it with less people. Maybe you could subsidise DNA research to develop a real money tree.

  517. 517
    Mr Ned says:

    If you told me I had to borrow amillion to get a degree, but not pay it back till I earn 2 million, I would sign up on the spot!

    I wish my mortgage were on those terms!

    Fucking students, clueless thick bastards who will never earn enough to have to pay their loans back.

    Oh and what percentage of musicians who have had a number one hit, have got a music degree?

    I would suggest that a music degree is completely un-necessary for critical acclaim and success in the music or entertainment business.

  518. 518
    Grammar Checker says:

    Mr High and Mighty is the correct usage in your first sentence,

    Your second sentence is unwieldy, and contains a redundant clause.

    “…supporters’…” in the fourth sentence, not …”supporters…”

    You have said that you work in education; having made three unforced errors in four sentences, I conclude that you are employed within the public sector, are not paid by results, and are not diligent in your work. That established, you appear to be a prime candidate for immediate redundancy, thus both saving taxpayers’ money and raising educational standards at one fell swoop.

  519. 519
    AC1 says:

    If they got jobs in the FSA, then at least one.

  520. 520
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Oh just wait boyohs until the Welsh Assembly gets its way and starts raising its own taxes – just think Gordon Brown with a jobsworth title !

    Can’t wait !!! – English tax cuts – here we come !!!!!

  521. 521

    Pure maths, though beautiful, is hardly useless – without number theory the phone system would not work, for instance.

    And any insight into Nature is both beautiful and useful, while arts subjects though beautiful are of only ephemeral use, if any.

    Sorry, jonsnowsnews – must try harder.

  522. 522
    AC1 says:

    Well CreditoHolic Regulators.

    After all they control the volume of credit, bankers just decide who gets it.

  523. 523
    Mr Ned says:

    Considering that chimps are so obviously a species and not a race, and further considering that accusing someone of racism for using the word chimp is an obvious deliberate combination of chimp with a person of colour on your part, then that means that accusing someone of being racist for using the word chimp, is in fact a racist slur itself.

  524. 524
    AC1 says:

    Utterly true.

    A degree would take 12 Months @8hours per day pace.

    Perhaps it would be better to fund living costs, BUT make students fund the full costs of the degree?

  525. 525
    The Proles says:

    Fucking get in there students, and Bob Crow, and stick as much sh*t up the arses of the the ruling elite of politicians, bankers, corporate vultures and EU/NWO Bilderburger fatcats as is humanly possible.
    If we go down, we’re taking you with us.

  526. 526
    jonsnownews says:

    Because it is worth studying why it’s successful in order to copy it, which is what Cowell did anyway. Same with Strictly come dancing and the US equivalent, Dancing with the stars.

    The rewards for coming up with this shit for the UK economy are massive, why not study it on the off chance you might come up with something that will bring in enough tax to fund all university courses for ever?

    Do you think Cowell would have benefited or suffered from having a few years to chill out and think about rubbish-yet-profitable TV formats?

    Imagine if he got the yanks watching Match of the Day, because he didn’t have to work his bollox off so much, and had a chance to really sell the yanks some manufactured rubbish

    If you don’t like your tax being spent on studying useless shit, then defund maths and physics. No time machine yet, despite all the promises!

  527. 527
    AC1 says:

    The purpose of work is not to extort tax.

  528. 528
    jonsnownews says:

    I like to label any statement, including this one, as a conspiracy theory.

  529. 529
    Just a student says:

    You said you ‘object to cretinous violent behaviour’ without any evidence at all to back it up other than what you see on the news. I’m saying you’re wrong, because I was there and it wasn’t the majority of students.

    And the point about the sit-in is that *because* there hasn’t been violence or any really extreme situations at the UCL occupation, we (as in the public, through the media) have not heard much about it.

    Do you have any media awareness at all? Or any idea how manipulative it is… Everyone has an agenda when it comes to reporting. And it would seem a lot of mainstream news sources are trying to censor and ignore the good things that students actually do… Like the UCL occupation/protest for instance. Well organised, with masses of support from thousands of people. Lectures and meetings and shows have been put on and as one witness said, it put the House of Commons to shame! So I fail to see exactly why you’re treating all students the same simply because a small % of them broke off and started breaking glass at ONE demo.
    Incidentally, how often do you hear about students volunteering to help in the community? Almost never. I do, and so do my friends, my fellow students and ‘pillocks’. You just don’t know about it and you’re too close-minded to even consider that that might be the case.

  530. 530
    AC1 says:

    Sounds like a lot of room for some cuts then.

    Tutors are profit centres and admin are costs centres….

    Who to p45?

  531. 531
    David Cameron says:

    nell’s arse is available on the streets of Norwich.
    Just put your mark in the blue box

  532. 532
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Sorrry Jon – you are wrong – eventually we will default ! It is the only solution ! It will be much harder since Brown bought the banks on our behalf – but it will happen anyway. the total world is chock-a-block with non existant money going around and around and each time it jumps it grows itself though non existant interest !

    The only question is how far and how long it will run before the first country defaults ! the more any country puts in to propping up the system – the more they will be hurt by the default. The size of the economy makes diddly squat difference as to whether it can or will happen !

    The only question left is whether it will be a controlled crash or whether the (in denial) politicians will keep knee jerking at every turn until the crash becomes revolutionary ! i.e. – people cannot afford to eat ! If the latter – expect bad bad times !

    But it is – just a matter of time !

  533. 533

    It does Dack – true.

    But there are at least two sorts of value – economic and social. Unfortunately, satisfying the aspirations that lead to greater social value presupposes the wealth to do so, and the depradations of the past decades have led to a situation where we need to rein in on the social aspirations until we can afford it, and to ensure that wild aspirations are never funded by those with no concept of economic value.

    Just been watching the new Frankie Boyle show on C4 btw Dack – it’s a bit sick but funny as hell.

  534. 534
    Anonymous says:

    AC1’s small company is a tiny hand grasping a cock.

  535. 535
    Mr Ned says:


    Spot on!!!

  536. 536

    Who to P45?

    That’s obvious to an outsider, but who makes the decisions?

  537. 537
    AC1 says:

    post neo-classical endogenous growth theory does boil down to
    1/ “spunk some money up the wall ”
    2/ ??????
    3/ Profit!

  538. 538
    wellpasthisbedtime says:

    Does Mummy know you’re still up?

  539. 539
    AC1 says:

    Wrong. Regulators did. They regulated far too much credit into existence.

    Hence Basel3 which regulates a lot less credit (about 12*M0, instead of infinite).

  540. 540
    Susie says:

    I think it’s a degree gives somebody £100k lifetime earnings more than someone on the average wage.

  541. 541
    jonsnownews says:

    So, for example, you would have all buildings designed not by arts graduates, but by engineering graduates.

    I recently had a look at the Thamesmead Binksey road estate, where A Clockwork Orange was filmed. There’s a reason Kubrick chose that “machine for living” as a dystopian setting.

    Who would you rather design your house that you must look at the rest of your life, someone who had studied the arts like architecture, and got into debt because of their passion for that subject, or the useful engineer?

  542. 542
    AC1 says:

    “Beyond Crash” Good Title.

  543. 543
    Susie says:


  544. 544
    AC1 says:

    I think it got too warm and he took his tin foil beenie off.

  545. 545

    Errr – stupid council treasury departments staffed by the sort of tosser that thinks that studying economics at the LSE makes them automatically financial geniuses bought these junk bonds thinking they were an investment – like the tossers did with BCCI a couple of decades back. Hardly Iceland stealing from the council tax payers – more a case of the councils attracting the usual calibre of staff.

    And Iceland was right to default – we should have done too, and taken the short term pain.

    Look up ‘moral hazard’ for why we should never have bailed out the banks.

    And no – I’m not a banker because I know it’s all a Ponzi scheme and won’t get involved – I don’t even use credit and never will.

  546. 546
    Mr Ned says:

    Still remember taking my old RISC pc to pcworld to see the grunts confused expressions!

    “I see your problem, there’s no CPU fan!”


  547. 547

    Had to happen sooner or later :-)

  548. 548
    Mr Ned says:

    If we have learned one thing, it is that AC1 knows fuck all about iPhones.

    It is a peice of piss to forward a text. Go to the thread from the person you want to forward from, click edit, select the text message, click forward, select recipient and send.

    Peice of piss!

  549. 549
    jonsnownews says:

    At last, some sensible analytical reasoning

    (lol I said anal)

  550. 550
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Jon stop harping on about the bankers – when you think about it they did really well ! they made huge profits out of non existant money (which got divvied out between themselves and the shareholders) – then convinced an economically illitate government to give them all the taxpayers money they never had and are divvying it out as if it nothing ever happened ! Now that sounds like good banking to me ! They have made huge profits out of nothing and then got it doubled !

    Besides – they like the policians will get theirs when the crash comes !

  551. 551

    The problem, Nell, is that the politicians have lost all concept of honour and the implied contract that we have with the forces personnel – if they put their lives on the line for the political classes for whatever stupid reason, then we owe it to them to look after them.

    And we can’t lay all the blame on Labour for this – the Cambridge Hospital in Aldershot was closed under John Major’s watch, and Labour only followed the process.

  552. 552
    Daily Mail twats says:

    Peter Shittins and Richard Littledick are two pricks in a pod.

  553. 553
    Do they know they're Liars ? says:

  554. 554

    Totally O/T, but there’s a great bit in the Mail (yes, I know it’s a rag for the stupid and prejudiced – but I find it amusing) about an ‘evolutionary psychologist’ who has surmised that the reason most suicide bombers are moslem is because they don’t get laid enough.

    Mind you, he also reckons that liberals are more intelligent than conservatives (both uncapitalised deliberately), so evolutionary psychology has about a 50% hit rate…

  555. 555
    Hooray for the Bankers says:

    The regulator failed by allowing the credit ratings agencies to label shit as AAA+

    The regulator didn’t force the banks to overleverage themselves or make bad bets, they did that themselves for easy profits and bonuses.

    The weakened regulation may have stupidly allowed them to gamble more money but it didn’t force them to do so.
    It was the Bank’s choice.

    Abdicating responsibility for the bankers own greedy incompetent actions is spurious nonsense.

    The Banks were all up to their necks in CDO’s and CDS’s because they made them all astronomical short term bonuses.

  556. 556
    No more broken promises says:

  557. 557
    jonsnownews says:

    Actually, I’ll tell you what, I’ll write a lot of stuff slagging you off then I’ll take it all back and pretend I’m not the biggest C@nt the world has ever seen

  558. 558

    So why not teach a bit of aesthetics in civil engineering courses then?

    I know the brutalism of the 60s was bad, but the mentality of Le Corbusier was combined with the parsimony of the bureaucrat in those tower blocks – I remember the Crescents in Hulme, Manchester as a kid and how repellent I found them, while the Toast Rack in Fallowfield is still a stunning building.

    Architecture, to me, should be a vocational course offered at cost – engineers do so much more than pretty, but they are human too and can understand aesthetics if only they are educated.

  559. 559
    Sunday Morning says:

    The trouble with this country is that there has been a hell of a protest against the spending that is now having to be cut when the time to take to the streets and get angry should have been to protest against the Labour government squandering the wealth of the country and subsidising a generation of students going to university who would have struggled to get 5 CSEs in the days when qualifications meant something.

  560. 560
    White Van Man says:

    Answer: No they don’t, fuck ‘em they can pay for their own useless tax eating degrees, Math English and the Sciences fine we’ll meet you half way otherwise get a loan or a fuck job you lazy useless cuηts.

  561. 561
    White Van Man says:

    Hear hear!

  562. 562
    Old dog no tricks says:

    I challenge you to refute ANY argument which Peter Hitchens makes !

    I do not support everything he says – but he ALWAYS has very good sound reasoning behind his expressed opinions.

    But most people who attack him fail to read what he actually says and assume his meanings. Big mistake ! They fail to make their points because they debate what they think he says rather than what he actually says.

    What is more – he is one of the few publishing journalists who will DEBATE with contributers his opinions. Most will post, some will add a few items to the discussion but non debate so openly. When you realise this – you have to at least respect the man !

  563. 563

    At least Littlejohn’s occasionally witty – Hitchens P is just a ranting Likudnik moron.

  564. 564
    nell says:

    I support Dave sending our boys into the Afghan meatgrinder to die and get maimed or another five years because that’s the kind of help for heroes I believe in.

    Did I mention I was a disgusting hypocrite!!

  565. 565
    White Van Man says:

    God help us all!

  566. 566
    jonsnownews says:

    Interesting theory.

    Any evidence to back it up? Ah no, didn’t think so.

    So, any more intereting theories?

  567. 567
    paddy bankers says:

    it’s worked for us

  568. 568

    Too right SM, but we were all busy trying to earn a crust at the time – we knew it was stupid, we knew it was feckless, but since we thought they were all arses anyway it would have made no difference which lot were in charge.

    Most people bought into the credit fuelled boom too – I didn’t but then again I don’t believe in credit – it’s just fairy dust so far as I can see. The responsibility for the bust wasn’t just the politicians, nor just the bankers – anyone who overextended themselves on cheap credit must shoulder their share of the blame.

    It’s the post-war lefty statist consensus that has led us to this point – if we don’t jettison it soon then we’ll have to default and start again, like the Icelanders.

  569. 569
    jonsnownews says:

    Wikileaks is about to confirm so much worse that that

  570. 570
    mod knows wily says:

    Osborne a lightwieght???but we knew that

  571. 571

    English? Only for those who promise to teach for at least 5 years.

    Why subsidise some wanker to read Byron and Blake for 3 years so that they can then offer fries with that?

    Disclaimer – I like Byron, Blake and indeed lots of literature, but I can read and understand all that in my spare time, and it doesn’t create anything of tangible value, which is what we need if we’re not to tip over the abyss.

  572. 572
    White Van Man says:

    It costs £45,000 per prisoner per year, what the fuck is that about?

  573. 573
    jonsnownews says:

    hey fuckwit – what takes some undergraduates 8 hours a day takes other undergraduate half the time – it depends what you have a particular talent for – oh wait no we can’t have that lets regulate student study hours like they do in north korea that will help an economy which relies on innovation and knowledge

    Christ you complete any fucking degree or even just try thinking about one thing at a time for more than 10 seconds, before you wonder where you left your dentures, then give the world the benefit of your ignorant lazy opinion.

  574. 574

    Lightweight? He may be, but he’s at least as qualified as the previous two chancellors who contributed to our ruin, and at least he’s only a bit socialist…

  575. 575
    No more broken promises says:

  576. 576
    jonsnownews says:

    “the purpose of x” = a negative

    makes fuck all sense

  577. 577
    jonsnownews says:

    The fact that these Brown-bought, state-owned and run UK banks are now making profits for the taxpayer, of course, means that Brown was wrong and we are going to default on our debt. Whatever.

    Well the bond market says you are wrong to the tune of a UK bond interest rate similar to Germany’s. What is Iceland’s borrowing rate having defaulted?

    Still, keep arguing against the bond market, and end up wrong like eveyone who ever did in the whole history of bond markets.

  578. 578
    jonsnownews says:

    If you don’t use credit, you will lose out to your competitors who do use credit. They borrow to invest, they take risks, you don’t so you will lose in the long run.

    For example, you might pay to invest in media studies, on the off chance that media studies students cost relatively little, but can return massive rewards eg lots of shit TV exports which we make money from

    But hey, you keep your money in the bank, where it’s “safe”

  579. 579
    jonsnownews says:

    lol they have already got theirs, it’s safely in swiss banks just like where the nazis kept it.

  580. 580

    I doubt you’ll sway many collectivists with that one – there is, however, a huge hole in the argument once fiat money and multiple lending by banks is allowed to distort the rational values. The running of a defecit by governments makes the situation worse.

    Once this happens, no reliable comparison between goods and labour can be found, and the whole system goes to pot because fixed assets tend to gain at the expense of consumables.

    This is precisely what has happened over the last 13 years because of the excessive deregulation entered into by McMoron.

  581. 581
    jonsnownews says:

    it’s hard to sort his ranting from the obvious, unsophisticated knee-jerk stuff, so it just takes a lot longer to understand what you knew he was saying anyway

  582. 582
    hush puppy says:

    So thats twice in a week Ken Clarke has been shown up as a fucking useless blustering buffoon.
    Well done Hitchins…same as Farage last week.

    Fuck off Clarke. Go look after that oul granny of yurs.

  583. 583
    ST says:

    Dear me, I had no idea Guido’s regulars were such a techie bunch. I wonder if the technical disciplines tend to be more right wing?

    Me? PhD Chemistry.

  584. 584
    ST says:

    Oh I know ARM a doing very well, but I haven’t yet found a mobile phone I can program (easily!!! (bloody pedantic nerds)) to control experiments.

  585. 585
    jonsnownews says:

    it’s his equally not caring about europe attitude that pissed the right off about him.

    He could have salvaged something from Major’s govt if they hadn’t got obssessed with Euro stuff that nobody gives a shit about now.

    I might not be conservative but I would still vote for Ken if there was some separate election for chancellor

  586. 586
    jonsnownews says:

    thanks Victorian Dad

  587. 587
    jonsnownews says:

    Bilderburg spies already sorted him out, he is no longer a threat to us

  588. 588
    jonsnownews says:

    ffs it the daily mail who knows whether it is true or not

    Just tell me whether it causes or prevents cancer, if not I don’t care

  589. 589
    White Van Man says:

    That video embed is totally fucked.

  590. 590
    ST says:

    “UK manufacturing has never produced so much, they just do it with less people.”


  591. 591
    no it's not says:

    by totally fucked you mean totally playable and listenable

  592. 592
    White Racist Man says:

    That video embed is totally fucked.

  593. 593
    Groucho says:

    Clueless snob.

  594. 594
    Regulate the Banker Scum says:

    So you want more regulation for the Bankers. About time you saw sense.

  595. 595
    ST says:

    I’m not really talking about salesmen, which I appreciate my post gives the impression of.

    I mean I am involved in producing feedstock material to sell to other companies who turn it into something else and so on until it becomes part of some product which can be sold paint, an Ipod etc.

    If you work at the start of the supply chain the goods you sell must be low cost and wages are unlikely to be high as the market is extremely price sensitive.

  596. 596
    Rog says:

    Bloody excellent. Enjoyed that.

  597. 597
    Mr Ned says:

    I would very happily take out a loan for a million pounds and invest it in myself if I did not have to repay it till I was earning 2 million.

    It is a very generous win-win situation. Like being allowed to bet on a horse race, but only having to pay the stake money IF your horse wins.

    I wish my mortgage was on the same generous terms.

    The cost in absolute terms is now irrelevant as the affordability of tuition fees is now sorted. They are affordable, as you are only required to repay when your income level ensures and guarantees it to be affordable.

    The only poor people who could possibly be put off by this system are far too stupid to earn a degree in the first place.

  598. 598
    Mr Ned says:

    Also, if you are not prepared to pay an affordable sum towards an investment in yourself, why the fuck should the taxpayer?

  599. 599
    AC1 says:

    Glenn Beck told me George Soros is beaming muslim gay-making hypno-rays up my arse and he wouldn’t lie.
    Glenn has told me that special mormon tinfoil underwear will save me and I’m wearin them right now as I take a shit in them.

  600. 600
    annnnonyperson says:

    I lasted 15 seconds before I had to turn the scummy little waster off.

  601. 601

    The bond markets operate on perceived value – since Iceland has defaulted, of course it’s going to struggle to borrow. As soon as the scale of the problem becomes obvious, the markets will adjust – there’s a lot of ‘they’re a better bet than the Portugese / Spanish / French etc. going on here, and the shit will hit the fan.

    And on the Brown bail-out? I’ll be happy when the profits outstrip the interest on the money we have loaned them, and the banks involve start lending to small business again.

    As for credit – I have sufficient unto my needs and require no more, and don’t feel in competition with anyone. Now if I was running a business rather than doing computers for a living maybe I’d want credit to expand, but I’d be very very risk averse – that’s just down to who I am.

  602. 602
    MI8 says:

    Fuck, I’ve just shit myself, watch this!

  603. 603
    Mr Ned says:

    Just a student. You are an idiot.

    You do not have to pay 9k per year. In reality most students won’t as the cap for most courses is 6k, and one exceptional courses at elite universities will be permitted to charge 9k.

    But as you have admitted you ate attending Uni under labour’s system, your rant is false and irrelevant. Why should the tax payer invest in you if you are not prepared to invest an easily affordable percentage of your future income in yourself?

    Still, you clearly do not let the facts get in the way of your petulant, childish, self indulgent rant.

  604. 604
    Groucho says:

    Spot on. Check how many Labour MPs started their political careers in the NUS.

  605. 605
    Mr Ned says:

    the world if it wasn’t for journalists?!

    You cannot learn the truth from journalists. They cut and paste government press releases for a living and pass off propaganda as truth.

    If I want to know what is going on, I have to use some trusted blogs as a starting point and then contact the people involved and find out for myself. Youvannot trust journalists.

  606. 606
    Mr Ned says:

    Bullshit ‘just a student’ they will not give you a chance without a degree because you are a quitter!

    If you built up a sizeable portfolio of original work, and beat down the doors of the papers to see the commissioning editors, and never ever gave up, and showed some real flair, talent and initiative, then you would get a chance, maybe as a freelancer at first, but you do NOT need a degree to get into journalism.

  607. 607
    Aesop o'Sardis says:

    I think you want a WE

  608. 608
    Bazza says:

    Music degree = Journalism degree = Meedja Studies degree = UB40 – 36 months + unrealistic sense of entitlement.

    jonsnownews = pompous little fuckwit who makes the same point 57 times then calls the other guy Bad Word over own typo.

  609. 609
    THE PRODUCER says:

    As the producer for the Save our Students video from the ever so fabulous Northumbria Uni students – guys and gals, I am going to say, lighten up love!Seriously it is a film that was created to put our message and thousands of other students views across to the government BUT also it is just a bit of banter.
    The use of the band aid song was never meant to be disrespectful, it was used as that was a tried, tested and potent way of making people stand up and listen.
    Just stop being so serious, live a little, have fun and get out more. I am sure if you followed those instructions, you would be able to take the video as it is – fun, informative and banter! All the best!

  610. 610
    tiresome wanker says:

    You’re off your rocker you frothing knobend.

  611. 611
    self important twatwatch says:

    You’re a fine one to talk about ranting, you ridiculous common-or-garden lefty brainwash victim.

  612. 612
    Bazza says:

    It’s riot time, yeah so be afraid!
    At riot time, even Henry can make the grade
    And in our world of plenty, we can make plenty of noise
    In leeching you, we’re justified

    But say a prayer – pray for our Chelsea mums
    At riot time it’s kewl when we’re having fun

    There’s a brick going through your window
    With a note demanding beer
    Cos the only beer that’s flowing here is dripped from goatee beards
    And the fire extinguishers raining down are meant for fascist tools
    Well tonight maybe it’s them – tomorrow you

    You say no grants for e’s an’ whiz this winterval
    Well the greatest gift you’ll get this year is us
    Cos nothing can be known
    Without a socialist say-so
    Don’t you know we make your world go ‘round?

    Here’s to us
    Raise your glasses everyone
    Here’s to us
    Sitting on our collective bum
    Don’t you know my daddy’s famous?

    Fleece the poor
    Let them know we’re worth much more-oh
    Fleece the poorest
    For a BA Hons to write the chorus

  613. 613
    Cut_the_Crap_with_the _tuition_fees says:

    There is more food in Africa than many people give credit for. (I should know since I lived there for a time).

    The recent breaking of step by the Welsh authorities has now exposed the iniquity of the system of divide and rule in the UK. Cameron must take a step back or endure the wrath and storm of English students.

  614. 614

    Bet you lived all over Africa, on local wages then?

    Nah – you didn’t, and we can’t afford to pay for layabouts to study non-subjects any more either.

    Grow up.

  615. 615
    Templar says:


    Media studies. It is a clearly useless thing to study – there is no need for a degree in media in order to work in the media. Until a recent career change I worked in TV for 8 years. I have no degree in media, and neither did many of my colleagues, yet every year there are 50,000 media studies graduates leaving our universities, more people than work in TV at any given time. There are many other degrees that are similarly useless, like music studies. I’m sure others here could name more.

    We need to get over ourselves and realise many jobs simply don’t require a degree. What they need is proper, on the job training, apprenticeships and experience, not a piece of paper saying you got drunk for 3 years and shagged loads of women. Labour spent the last 13 years telling us we can all go to uni and get high paid jobs if we like, but it isn’t true. We can’t all be lawyers, or who will empty the bins? Who will cook the food, fix our cars etc? Very few degrees are actually necessary for their jobs, others are very necessary to society (IE Physics, which despite what you say is extremely useful in improving our understanding of the universe). If you study to be an architect then you can pay for it – you’re probably going to be earning a damn sight more than £21K per year – and if you’re studying to be a GP then the Government can pay some of the bill, before tying you into the NHS for X number of years. Physics researchers aren’t exactly overpaid, hence I have no problem with pure science degrees being covered by taxpayer grants.

  616. 616

    It’s 1968 all over again: a bunch of lazy, unwashed, talentless gits with too much time on their hands. They’ve gotten bored of sitting around talking crap in the uni bar and now want to break stuff up beacause they think they’ve got some God given right to dip their nicotine and dope stained fingers into our wallets an someone is taking that away from them.

    I’ll bet there were few medical, science or engineering undergraduates in that mob.

  617. 617
    albacore says:

    Per Wikipedia:
    “Brown graduated from Edinburgh with (a) First Class Honours MA”
    “Cameron studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford, gaining a first class honours degree”.

    And that, M’lud, completes the case for the prosecution.

  618. 618
    You couldn't make it up says:

    A lot of graduates will find that their first or upper second degree(anything less don’t even bother applying)unless it’s in medicine;engineering or one of the other sought after sciences basically isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on to employers. Most employers have no faith in the grading of degrees or the worth of a degree in media or history or any of the humanities

    What students should be protesing about is not the increase in fees for what for most will be a worthless qualification but improving the quality which means that less people should be going to university not more. Tough but true.

  619. 619
    Unsworth says:


    You clearly have a better understanding of the black economy than me. Do these Pounds Sterling which end up in Poland buy British goods?

  620. 620
    Unsworth says:

    Oh dear! I can see the problem. You’re a student and you say that cretinous violent behaviour did not occur – because the ‘majority’ (your view) did not misbehave? So, it actually did occur – but not a lot? At what point would you accept that it occurred then? 10%? 20%? Or does it all depend on the extent or type of cretinous behaviour, or violence?

    You were there, you say. Does it cross your mind that I may have also been there?

    And you haven’t really dealt with the matter of a so-called ‘peaceful occupation’, have you? What right do the ‘occupiers’ have to act as they did? For that matter why do you think it incumbent upon any of the news media to report anything, at all, ever? Perhaps you don’t understand how the media work, how the money-go-round operates. Not too sure what you might mean by ‘agenda’ – care to spell that out in some detail?

    As you said, you’re a student. When you have studied a bit more maybe you’d like to engage in rational debate. There’s a lot to learn.

  621. 621
  622. 622
    Greg Beales says:

    David Cameron will regret flying back for PMQ’s today.
    Ed Miliband is “up for it” and will make both Cameron & Clegg squirm.
    Clegg will wish he had never been born after todays PMQ’s and that is a cast iron guarantee.He will be sat silently next to Cameron and looking like shit.

  623. 623
    Anonymous says:


    what a cock you are

  624. 624
    Harpo says:


  625. 625
    Who Gives A Fuck says:

    Do They Know They’re Born?

    just what the fuck is Cameron doing – off to the world cup bid, back for PMQs – then back off to the world cup bid – ALL AT OUR EXPENSE????? – he’s not even interested in football – the man is proving to be another liability

  626. 626
    Hugh ffishingly-Whittlingstool says:

    He pretty much did, on the pretext of Henry Kissinger getting the Nobel Peace Prize.

    His only activity of late was writing a song called ‘I’m Spending Chanukah in Santa Monica’ – presumably so that Adam Sandler’s ‘Chanukah Song’ didn’t have the festive market to itself.

  627. 627
    Ed Miliband says:

    To infinity and beyond!!!!!!

  628. 628
    Postlethwaite says:

    Guido, I’m guessing that a student dropped you when you were a baby

  629. 629
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    Evolutionary psychology might not always be bollocks.

    However, if they’ve got a book to sell it is, and if its being used to sell newspapers, its triple bollocks.

  630. 630
    Taxfodder says:

    Co’mon Guido you are only jealous because you can’t get pissed most of the time, shag all day and half the night with multiple needy babes and spout bollocks at the taxpayers expense…. ;0)

  631. 631
    Postlethwaite says:

    Statistically it used to be true that most programmers have history degrees.
    I have not checked in recent times.
    Worthless qualification? Well it is just following the leader. Italy has just about everyone getting a degree.
    Quality rather than quality is right. Take it up with Tony War Criminal Blair. He turned the polys into universities and said that 50 percent of the population would have degrees.
    So . . . if you have an IQ over 100, it is likely that . . .

  632. 632
    TATS DAD says:

    Not many graduates see fucking daylight
    so dont tell me there are some that actually go to uni for eight hours a day
    you stupid fucker

  633. 633
    Sophie says:


  634. 634
    Half Term Holiday says:

    I have a couple of 17 year old college students working for me

    They spend their EMA money on shortbread, chocolates and trips to Frankie & Bennys’s for their 15 year old girlfriends

  635. 635
    Anonymus says:

    If they got a shag out of it, it sounds very sensible to me.

  636. 636
    Aesop o'Sardis says:

    Not true. Many Polytechnics became Universities in the late 80s and early 90s. Much of the damage done to HE was done by a Tory government that saw education as a saleable commodity.

    I have a great deal of dislike for New Labour and its populist expansion of HE but it does not aid the debate to blame all on them.

  637. 637
    David Bouvier says:

    I know how hard business school students are on bad lecturers. One guy doing our accounting course had to be replaced by someone better inside 4 weeks because his attitude and approach was poor and his marking too arbitrary. That is what students paying serious cash demand.

    The fear of the paying customer motivates a university far more than just complaints.

  638. 638
    I Remember You Hoo says:

    ‘has going off’

    English Language graduate?

  639. 639
    David Bouvier says:

    ST: Not really – your wages will depend on the value you add and the scarcity of your skills/experience.

    Now, high margin industries can afford to hire lots of expensive people to improve the way they do business, since extra sales produce a lot of cash, whereas a low margin industry has to pay greater attention to unit costs.

    That said, if you are vital to the processing of a huge volume/value of low margin chemicals and have scarce skills you should command a good wage, but there will not be very many of you.

    It has nothing to do with raw vs processed goods, except in so far as they have the above characteristics.

    Oil exploration and extraction for example huge fixed costs but high margins, so there is plenty of value to add in exploration, process management etc. Lots of high salaries.

    Perhaps the signal is that either (a) your skills are not valuable or (b) you should take them somewhere else.

  640. 640
    Helpful says:

    I would argue that regulation is part of the problem. Regulation tends to make economic actors assume that risk has been removed or diminished. The Financial Services Act and the Financial Services and Markets Act have caused real problems: the assumption by potential investors is that regulation has made investment safe. This has drawn people into investing who should not be doing so. In the 80s it was decided that investing as opposed to saving would give higher returns and that active participation should be spread as wide as possible; hence ISAs and Personal Pensions. With the experience of the last twenty four years available the pendulum should start to swing the other way and the limits of regulation be recognised.

  641. 641
    Brit on the edge says:

    Then they found out the state of the finances left by Labour and had to face the realities of life. Can’t afford, can’t get.

  642. 642
    HC says:

    I suggest if you have that much time on your hands perhaps it should be you who is in the redundancy firing line?

    Actually, why don’t you get a job monitoring grammar and punctucation on here? It will keep you occupied for the the rest of the day to check through everyone elses?

    If you are having to hang on to petty things like grammar and syntax to have a dig, I think I’ve proven my point, your argument has no substance. You are just looking to get angry about something – no matter what it is!

  643. 643
    Postlethwaite says:

    I forgot it was all the fault of the conservatives.
    Labour goal, oft repeated – 50 percent of the population to have degrees
    I’ll go with you on killing off the only real method of getting on for a working class lad – the demise of grammer schools

  644. 644
    misterned says:

    Thought so AC1, you are in doolally land!!!

  645. 645
    Anonymous says:

    If English kids aren’t educated for free, they will not be able to afford housing and children and when the Government brings in the ‘You must have a degree for even the most poxy job’ English students will be bottom of the heap. If anyone agrees with where this is going, then you do not care for England and its people.

    In addition, Nick Clegg broke the law by lying about tuition fees in order to get votes. Once law being our ancient English Common Law but there must be loads of others like malfeasance in public office. The Law students should look into it.

  646. 646
    JH says:

    Bravo. Far superior to my piss poor effort.

  647. 647
  648. 648
    Goldie says:

    These pillocks don’t have a clue, the education system obviously isn’t working. Kick them all off their course and send them to work in a sweatshop making the primark clothes they all wear. Maybe in a few centuries they’ll have made enought to repay their student debt.

  649. 649
    Just a student says:

    Ned: The fees are still doubling, and yes I’m aware it’s UP to 9k a year but 6k is still a lot of money for most people to consider spending on something they may not enjoy anyway.

    I didn’t ‘rant’. Just because I’m not directly affected by this doesn’t make my opinion false or irrelevant… I suppose you’re one of those people that turns a blind eye to things. I think you should probably read the poem “First they came..” We all have to look out for each other. Especially students, seeing as the majority of older people (see replies to this post) seem to hate us. Not sure why – in a few years, we’ll be running the country!

    Also I am prepared to pay money back. Which is why I’m at Uni (am I missing something here?) My point with regards to the new system is that it’s a daunting amount of money to have to pay back. I’m already going to be £24,000 in debt when I leave Uni next year. I have no idea whether I will ever pay it back.
    Under the new system, as well, I think you’re penalised for paying back early. Which doesn’t make sense.

    At what point did I insult someone? How is what I’ve written childish? Because I’m passionate about the things I believe in…. Right… Next time I see something wrong being done I just won’t bother arguing about it – Is that the stance you take with everything YOU believe in?

  650. 650
    Just a student says:

    Ned: That’s funny, all the jobs I’ve looked at are looking for graduates with experience. In a world where you can’t get decent work experience without being on a related degree, I highly doubt that they would hire people without a degree.

    And if you’re suggesting I personally am not good enough, you’re absolutely wrong. I’m not going to bother going into it but take it from me, I am motivated, talented and determined so I hardly think that I am a quitter.

    After Uni, though, I’d like to take a break from Journalism and do something else. Even for another job that’s nothing to do with journalism – just an office job – I need to be a graduate with a degree.

  651. 651
    Unsworth says:

    “it is a film that was created to put our message and thousands of other students views across to the government BUT also it is just a bit of banter.”

    Right, so “The video was made as part of a national competition to raise awareness within the student population” from ‘HC’ is actually bollocks, then?

  652. 652

    I got all my qualifications by attending night school because I left school at 15 and got a job because I was orphaned.

    I paid for everything out of my own wages.

    The only thing the world owes you missy, is a baton round between the eyes and six feet of earth.

    Now c­u­nt off.

  653. 653
    THE PRODUCER says:

    Guys and gals, chill out! Stop taking everything too seriously. U dont have to watch it if u dont want to but every hit counts so I thank you for watching. Peace and goodwill to all men! Much loves The Producer

  654. 654
    Dack Blog says:

    Compared to the cock I imagine the hand looks quite large.

  655. 655
    Jules says:

    pay a visit to their YouTube page. figure they didn’t like the total flaming they’ve just received. hilarious!

  656. 656
    Anonymous says:

    Thanks for the loving comments, continued support and warmth you showed our video. Surprise surprise the Daily Mail reading, half wits on this blog didn’t like it.

    Oh well, Merry Christmas

    Kind regards
    Northumbria Students

  657. 657
    Anonymous says:

    or maybe, honest, hard-working members of society don’t like to read the thuggish abuse posted my members of this blog aimed towards young people.

    You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

  658. 658

    You have a point.

  659. 659
    Kishwa.Jones says:

    Cheers for the Publicity mate, if only you could’ve done it a few weeks ago we could’ve won ourselves a competition.

    Ah well!

  660. 660
    HC says:

    I completely agree!

  661. 661
    Paul Clifton aka The Poly Ranger says:

    Hey all you nameless, anonymous, people who so love to slander, troll, insult and threaten behind your masks of anonymity :-). Im called Paul Clifton and I’m proud to say I studied History at The Poly… Sorry – Northumbria University, and am now currently studying to be a teacher. I can also tell you the person on the video at the top of the screen was also a history student who has completed a PGCE, thats a postgraduate teaching degree (Certificate of Education) for those who don’t know. Just to clear that up – Thats NOT a media studies degree, just thought that would be of help to the person who sterotyped all the participants of the video and also requested a commenting student to do their research properly :-).

    Not that there is anything wrong with a media studies degree. Even if a degree that is achieved in a certain subject area is not directly used in that subject area does not mean that degree is a waste, (indeed I myself am converting onto maths so will probably rarely use the direct knowledge I gained from my history course). Degrees teach far more than just the direct knowledge passed on, they aid in increasing peoples research, presentation, organisational, and teamworking skills. They also teach students the importance of things such as deadlines, managing money, and social skills (those who do not develop their social skills at university are far more likely to drop out than those who are merely struggling with their course). More imporatantly, the attainment of a degree shows to employers that the person in question is more than willing to put in years of time and effort to better themselves during the course of their lives.

    Many business will employ people because of all the afforementioned skills that a degree nurtures and improves on and not for the subject area of the degree itself. After having left Newcastle and moved back to the small town where I was born, another thing I have noticed is that those who have attended university have on average a greater self-confidence than those who haven’t, which undoubtably helps in many peoples professional lives (especially teaching).

    When it comes to ‘paying their own way’, on average a university leaver earns more over the course of their lifetime than someone who never attended university, therfore are more likely to pay far more in taxes during their lives. This means they will pay for the cost of their degrees many times over. Students concerns are not just about the raise in fees but also about the cuts in spending for universities, meaning that future students will have to pay far more for far less. I do however believe that if a lesser of two evils had to be picked, Camerons idea of increased fees is slightly fairer than labours ridiculous idea of a graduate tax.

    Now to everybody who either said that the students are just being selfish/ thinking of themselves/ are biased/ are all about ‘me me me’… Bear this in mind; The students who have marched in London last month did NOT do it for themselves. When the fees kick in they won’t have to pay them, when the budget cuts really bite, they will probably have already graduated. Those students marched for the future, they marched for those who are at the moment too young to understand or care about the issue themselves. To call them selfish couldn’t be further from the truth. It was a selfless march for those who couldn’t speak for themselves!

    One further note. I personally thought the violence committed by 1% of the students on that march was a disgrace and do not condone it in any sense. The vast majority of those who either committed it or incited it were The Socialist Workers Party and Anarchist Movements by their own admission – NOT your stereotypical student. If you have read this far I thank you for your time and patience.

    The Poly Ranger.

    ***Poly Till I Die***

  662. 662
    Anonymous says:

    bunch of Hunts

  663. 663
    Former Poly Lad says:

    You really do not get “life” do you?

    Former Poly lad – writing letter of complaint to the chanceller as we speak.

  664. 664
    McKinsey%Co says:

    What no PPE Oxbridge? Where will the big-ticket management consultancies get their bullshitting new junior consultants from? Horreeur! You know. The overpaid ones that know nothing but learn fast enough to pick up what your underpaid staff know.

  665. 665
    Former Poly Lad says:

    You must be pissed with Red’s performance

  666. 666
    Bazza says:

    Awww, cheers JH.

    Trouble with that song is that it doesn’t scan well in the first place. But congrats on getting the Diversity Councillors in. :-)

  667. 667
    felix dzerzhinsky says:

    Brightest and the best in Nortumbria Uni. That’s an oxymoron for starters. At least as Newcastle Poly it did what it said on the tim !

  668. 668
    HappyUK says:

    Do they know they’re born? Probably not. Best not take these people seriously, as they are pisspoor students attending second rate universities.

    Many students in these so-called universities are basically spoilt children – no discipline, no desire for serious study, no aptitude nor anything resembling a work ethic. No wonder Chinese fee-paying students piss all over them.

    Not everyone is cut out for serious academic study, let alone further education. Higher education requires mental exertions that these adolescents are neither willing nor able to provide. I have seen it time and time again: levels of mathematical and writing competency in students that is no higher than that of school pupils.

    Self-interested unions and politicians will never let you hear these hard truths.

    Lets not give these jokers the time of day and concentrate resources better, not those who want to piss about attending protests and make pointless videos like these, but on those students who are willing and want to learn.

  669. 669
    Unsworth says:

    If they did they wouldn’t be seeing any tutors – who are just as goddam idle.

  670. 670
    Former-Poly Student says:

    What’s Biafra? That’s not on my sports science course, sorry.

  671. 671
    Anonymous says:

    I’m sorry HappyUK but you don’t know anything about these students – what they do for a degree, how hard they work, what background there from etc. so it doesn’t really give you a right to class them all as students who are ‘jokers’.

  672. 672
    Jules says:

    off you fcuk anonymous, you pious bell-end. i’d be ashamed of myself if i thought the financial ‘plight’ of today’s blindly self-entitled student was synonymous with that of a starving Ethiopian. but i don’t. what do you expect from a bunch of unformed teenagers who think socialism and the magic money tree is cool ‘cos professional 25-year old student trot aaron porter says so? and thuggish abuse? mine wasn’t. just fact-based, articulate and to the point – plus just a tad scornful. as i am of you.

  673. 673
    jonsnownews says:

    he can’t think for shit either

  674. 674
    Jules says:

    what’s the daily mail? if you mean “the post”, mine arrives mid-morning i believe. but i guess you mean that lazy pejorative for small-minded bigots when actually you just mean anyone who doesn’t agree with your infantile lefty world view. bit like “climate change denier” – another favourite from your end of the dial – with its clear implication that anyone holding such a view would enjoy an iced tea and a sweet pistachio sowhan with ahmad ahmedinejad. christ you people make me want to puke on my shoes.

  675. 675
    leboeuf says:

    why are all the comments removed?

  676. 676
    Bazza says:

    Oh deary me – didn’t go quite how you predicted, did it?

  677. 677
    Anonymous says:

    They are wankers with nothing better to do.

  678. 678
    Jules says:

    real shame you didn’t win it; let us know next time you do something moronically crass in plenty of time. i tried to vote for your video car-crash but was sadly too late. many would have loved to have seen aaron porter trying to explain this one away.

  679. 679
    Jules says:

    interesting then that the CBI is deeply concerned by falling levels of literacy amongst the graduates they see coming through. the inability to spell, to write coherent business communications, to construct a well thought through argument etc.

    the point is this paul: structural debt £4.8 trillion on a conservative estimate; national annual overdraft £170 billion; unproductive public sector now larger than the productive private sector for the first time (51%:49%); 7 million public sector workers of whom only 2 million comprise all the frontline doctors, nurses, policemen, firemen, armed servicemen and lollypop ladies we have; vast swathes of northern cities up to 80% reliant on public sector jobs; oh and 25% of government expenditure borrowed. unsustainable madness. thank you gordon and tony for your crapulous socialist economic logic.

    there are too many students and not enough money. higher education is a privilege for the talented not a right for all. that means it is a lower spending priority. there either needs to be fewer students or the ones we have must pay more. it’s a simple cost equation. and don’t tell me that a graduate earning £25K is unable to afford to pay back his/her student loan at £30 a month. it’s bullshit. take the pain; the private sector is taking the pain and believe me, without the private sector there would be no taxation money for government to piss up the wall on anything whatsoever.

    if you’ve got a problem with the tuition fees that labour introduced, go protest outside gordon brown’s or tony blair’s front door. they’re the twats who fucked up higher education for you.

  680. 680
    Shane Ritchie says:

    do you know something.. reading this i am laughing to myself! do you ignorant people have nothing better than to swear and abuse comments and videos? as one of the singers on that video i do not see how in any way it is suggesting student debt is more important than the plights of the starving in africa. At the end of the day its a totally separate issue. The video was produced and released as part of a national competition and i think its absurd and quite frankly ridiculous that its even being suggested that the video is making the plight of the starving any less important. It sounds to me like a bunch of you clearly have nothing better to do so look for any excuse to put down and abuse defenseless students. End of the day we could of used many songs.. would you have still reacted if we had chosen another song with previous meaning i.e. candle in the wind (diana/marilyn) or heroes or another song with preturbed meaning? i have to thank your ignorance as you have just given this great video thousands more hits and sooooo many people have now seen it so thankyou :) o and for the delightful people that mocked northumbria for being a poly i say yep..POLY AND PROUD..o and if you check the league tables northumbria is fast catching up with newcastle and will soon overtake it. Daddys visa can do lots of things.. but for passion and heart northumbria will never be beaten. Who cares it was a poly? Our video for the cut in tuition fees was ingenuity at its finest, and as a twice over graduate and a qualified teacher i think you all need to take a long look at yourselves for writing such pointless rubbish!

  681. 681

    I went to The Poly, and had a very active (drinking) social life as a rugby player and all-round sports tosser.

    Fucking embarrassing to be honest. The place went to the dogs when Wiggle shut.

    Still, all publicity and all that.

    I remain, etc.

  682. 682
    Anonymous says:

    ^^ As opposed to someone who hands around a message board and calls other people wankers with nothing better to do? Smooth man, real smooth.

  683. 683
    Anonymous says:

    ^^ As opposed to someone who hangs around on message boards and calls other people wankers? Smooth man, real smooth!

  684. 684
    Cass@Proud_to_be_a_poly* says:

    Paul Clifton you’re my hero!

  685. 685
    jonslowIknows says:

    That jonsnownews,
    He certainly isn’t a Uni,cos he’s spent 24/7 frothing at the mouth replying on here?
    Or maybe he is??? naughty boy ;)

  686. 686
    could of says:

    “…we could of used many songs..”

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