October 19th, 2010

That Aircraft Carrier Decision Explained

Amazingly prescient and well informed explanation from Admiral Parr:


447 Comments

  1. 1
    Popye says:

    Where’s me spinnach, err spinner, err spinikar

    • 12
      Lord Wayne of Trombone says:

      Shadow defence secretary Jim Murphy described the arrangement as “peculiar” and “driven by finance”.

      Shadow defence secretary Jim Murphy described the arrangement as “peculiar” and “driven by finance”.

      Jim – I do not want to attack an easy target but when you say driven by finance – it sort of implies that you are a c/nt.
      You may not have noticed that Bliar and Brown right royally fucked the country to death with debt-
      OF COURSE IT IS DRIVEN BY FINANCE
      THAT IS WHOLE FUCKING POINT
      SPENDING CUTS – IT IS FINANCE

      Now FUCK OFF back to your comprehensive skool

      • 58
        Anonymous says:

        I say old chap, rather, too right!

        • 87
          13eastie says:

          New Labour finally drags Britain behind the Third World

          (I can’t be bothered arguing the whys and wherefores of our strategic needs with the clairvoyants who, from the sidelines, feel able to assure us all that no British territory will need any strategic defence capability over the next ten or twenty years).

          Here is a list of countries with operable aircraft carriers:

          Brazil (1)
          France (1)
          India (1)
          Italy (2)
          Russia (1)
          Spain (2)
          Thailand (1)
          United States (11)

          The UK has almost 20,000 miles of coastline, is a senior member of NATO, has a permanent seat on the UNSC, and is a nuclear power.

          The financial cluster-fuck accomplished by Brown and Labour has given us a titanic white elephant of a fleet which shames us before the likes of Brazil, Thailand (FFS!), Spain and Italy.

          • Anton Thalmann - Ambassador of Switzerland to the United Kingdom says:

            And us!

            You guys are soooooooooo weak!

          • sockpuppet #4 says:

            One point from one sentence:
            you don’t defend your own coastline with aircraft carriers.

            One might note that sweden’s big cold war remit was to have aircraft that would arrive at every point of their coastline within 1 hour.

          • Sarf of the River says:

          • 13eastie says:

            You don’t land a transporter on an enemy runway.

            You don’t drive armoured vehicles across the Atlantic.

            The Falkands are British.

            Argentina has an air force.

          • OnlyMe says:

            “The Falkands are British”

            The Falklands are the Falklands, not Great Britain.

          • 13eastie says:

            Great Britain is an island, you twat.

            The term British is used to denote nationality.

            The Falkland Islands are collectively a British Overseas Territory and its people are also British.

            Why don’t you take your fucked up pedantry and fuck off, spaz?

          • uh oh says:

            I say, are you a damned fine bedroom warrior on the quiet?

          • OnlyMe says:

            @13eastie

            You were responding to the comment:

            “you don’t defend your own coastline with aircraft carriers”

            and then started whining about nationality of the Falkland Islanders.

            If you can’t follow a simple debate then fuck off to the socialist workers you big wobble-bottomed gay simpleton.

      • 110
        Cassandra King says:

        If the cuts are driven by a lack of money caused by the last regime then WHY does the MOST IMPORTANT part of the national budget have to be cut?
        Its all a great big squalid pack of lies and the tory eurostooges know exactly why they have betrayed us.
        Why not cut foreign aid if defence is more important than foreign aid? Why not slash quango spending if defence is more important than quango land? Here is where the tory lies fall apart and yet nobody has yet asked Cameron these simple questions!

        The government is lying through its teeth about the cuts to the Royal Navy and the real reasons for the cuts, the tories are preparing our forces for the setting up of a European armed forces. The great betrayal is underway and these traitors have so little regard for our intelligence that they actually believe their pathetic lies will fool us.

        There is no need to cut the forces when other cuts could be made easily to compensate, the real aims of the Eurostooge tories is clear. The tories are betraying us all, they are lying and cheating us all out of our most basic and cherished gift, the right to an independent sovereign nation and all the while they have lied and deceived us, they fought an election based on false promises.

        • 129
          smoggie says:

          Calm down, dear.

          • Disaffected says:

            I totally agree. Hague was disingenuious with the sovereignty law, as articulated by Tebbit. Why would need to legislate something that is already ours? More powers are being given to the EU since the Coalition came to office (Clegg must be pleased). Last week they quietly voted on massively increasing the EU budget, when this week we have had the embarrassment of the defense review. What is Cameron playing at!

          • Court of Public Opinion says:

            Cameron is a fucking traitor, just like the last 2 PMs.

            It really is time to test the defences of No 10 and have an impromptu conversation with him. The tea lady is more than welcome to attend both as supplier of cups of excellent tea and also as a witness that nobody was harmed during the meeting of minds.

            I really thought it would be different after the election, not different and change as in Obama type clap trap. I thought Cameron would hit the ground running and prove himself as a statesman who would bat for Britain in everything.

            He isn’t.
            He’s a fucking fraud.
            I’m furious.

        • 324
          Madme Defarge says:

          I completely agree. It’s the only plausible answer. This lot are going to integrate us even further into Europe. Norman Tebbitt, writing in the DT this week, said Hague was being disingenuous and weasley wording the stance on the EU.

          I was prepared to give this Coalition a chance but I don’t know what to make of it all. There is also some story they are going to announce spending billions on the almighty scam that is “Climate Change”.

      • 292
        Chris Myers Fan Club says:

        errrrrrrr Isnt a defense review supposed to be about defense !!!!!!!

        • 423
          Someone says:

          These days it’s largely about attack. There isn’t any military threat to GB and if the forces were reduced by 90%, it wouldn’t matter.
          In fact, not attacking foreign countries would reduce any threat even further.

      • 294
        Chris Myers Fan Club says:

        12…Lord Wayne.

        Enjoy being a Cameron apologist….arrrr bless

      • 424
        Osama the Nazarene says:

        The carriers were only ordered to bribe liebor’s jock supporters with so called jobs.

    • 95
      Banana Boat. says:

      One of the carriers should be named after the greatest prime minister since Churchill-”H.M.S. Gordon Brown” saviour of the world.

      • 134
        Disaffected says:

        It strikes me that Blair has not suffered any consequences for his total ineptitude of running the country into the ground. The MI5 budget quadroupled because of the invasion of Iraq and “home grown” terrorism- created by Blair’s mass immigration.

        Was it Hoon, Hutton or the last Liebour defense twat, who asked a question in the H of C today, the genious behind the contracts for building aircraft carriers without aeroplanes?

        I find the defense review embarrassing. To make matters worse, French or American planes will be used on the ships. The gutless Cameron will be indebted to these countries and what will they expect in return? Beach it near Iran? These slug type people, who fiddled their expenses, then used taxpayers money to attempt to deny us seeing their improper deeds are still being paid by us for these sort of decisions. The stupid Harperson is still being paid giving stupid grins on the front bench of the opposition. Who on earth voted for twats like these?

        Fck it, our borders are wide open to the terrorists of the world, they freely change our culture, use legal aid to challenge any criticism, deportation orders, claim racisim and scrounge of us to live a luxurious life. Why do we need any military, we have been over ran and we are viewed as a joke by the rest of the world. Blair should be proud of himself when he sits in the sun earning millions from his treachorous deeds while thousands died and many more thousands are coming to terms with their plight from the Iraq war. He needs to investigated, prosecuted and imprisoned. His assets seized, including the homes he bought for his children, and the proceeeds given to the widows and wounded of the war. Closely followed by those who supported him in cabinet ie Straw, Brown and Hoon.

        • 144
          eh? says:

          “I find the defense review embarrassing. To make matters worse, French or American planes will be used on the ships.”

          Yes, it is rather embarrassing but I fail to see how you have the energy to get worked up about a few planes landing on a couple of ships.

          I find it much more embarrassing that this country is home to muslims, you know, the people who are programmed to kill non-believers, programmed even to stone their women, hang people whose sexual orientation they find offensive and kill members of their own family over ‘honour’.

          Even more embarrassing and hard to stomach is that we are told to bend over backwards to accommodate them. It’s embarrassing that all council literature appears in 99 different languages at our expense. I find it embarrassing that the English culture and language has been diluted and relegated in my own country.

          After a while my embarrassment turns to rage.

          Still, carry on worrying about a few Top Guns landing on our carriers if you want. A more pressing concern of mine is that people who wish damage to the fabric and history of this country are already here. No amount of aircraft carriers and planes will make any difference. They keep breeding, arriving and living in their own little shitty ever-increasing enclaves and marginalise the others.

        • 165
          Kevin says:

          Blair IMO was a very good PM but he was badly (very badly) let down by Brown.

    • 160
      Sandy Woodward says:

      Dave should have scrapped the RAF.

    • 163
      Captain Mannering says:

      Certainly makes sense to base our troops out of Germany and back into Blighty. Makes no sense why the German economy should benefit from our defence budget.

    • 178
      Up sh1t creek says:

      Ah, who cares about the carriers, the most important thing is the BBC are REALLY angry that the coalition has forced them to have a six year BBC tax freeze.

      Why do they think that this is a cut in their budget…. unless they were thinking they were entitled to a never ending increase.

      Funny in how during Treasury questions in the Commons today Ken Clarke was asked if they would stop sending people to prison for not paying the BBC tax, but “the coalition had not thought about that” was fatso’s reply.

      • 222
        Mr Ned says:

        Nick Robinson telling George Alagiah about the private feelings of BBC employees and putting them ahead of the public. “Who will be losing their jobs to fund the 16% real terms cut?”

        Well there were two right there who should be straight down to the dole office. Followed by the rest of the BBC news team

      • 312
        OnlyMe says:

        According to toenails on Newsnight, the Condems bottled out of giving the BBC a 25% cut.

        Shame.

    • 184
      Dave & a Box says:

      I am very disappointed that Dave did not think outside the box.

      Although he Blames Gordon for committing us to two new carriers an order that we can not cancel. He also says that we need a carrier at sea at all times but we must do without for 10 years.

      So instead of scrapping the Ark Royal to save money yet maintaining foreign aid Why didn’t Dave make the Ark Royal our foreign aid?

      That ship could visit destitute countries providing them with medical assistance, technical assistance, practical assistance, fresh water, food, electricity and protection from baddies.

      Think outside the Box Dave

      • 191
        toseeyounice says:

        That’s really a very good idea. The Ark Royal could sail the severn seas just to cheer up Johnny Foreigner. We could put some celebs on it and they could do concerts and things.
        We could send Bruccie!

        • 197
          EU INTERNATIONAL AID says:

          At least Fay Turney and Mr Bean would still have a job and if we needed an aircraft carrier quick then we would have one. Makes no sense to hand out hard cash in foreign aid when we could have good insurance.

          PS Have heard it said this foreign aid vstuff is actually a EU obligtion.and we have no choice anyway.

          • Source, please? says:

            Source, please?

          • fuck 'em all says:

            “PS Have heard it said this foreign aid vstuff is actually a EU obligtion.and we have no choice anyway.”

            Bollocks. The UK is a sovereign nation. It does not have any obligations to the EU whatsoever. We have all the choices we need. That the powers in Westminster choose not to exercise any of the more prudent ones is a different matter.

            Westminster needs cleansing.

          • Anonymous says:

            Faye Turney wont need a job having just got about 200k hand out for some reason or other from the MOD. any one know if this is TRUE.

      • 211
        Up sh1t creek says:

        Why not just slash the social security budget, I mean, for a start the child benefit has raised exponentially under Labour to buy votes. slash that or better yet scrap it altogether. The social security budget is so huge it is easy pickings.

        Slash the NHS budget, no, not the front line, the management. Same goes in councils which have a huge amount of management. Curtail the pay the council executives give themselves to £100k or less.

        There are LOTS of good cuts that can be made, but the Tories are Blue Labour, they are chicken. They are not a real Conservative party. I know I wasted my vote.

    • 238
      The entire political class have got my Goat! says:

      So lets get this straight. The previous bunch of Labour Hoons cooked up a contract so crooked that if the Government cancelled the order for 2 aircraft carriers the cost would be even greater than if it proceeded. What Fuckwit authorised this. Whay aren’t the Police or the Serious Fraud Office investigating this crap. THIS STINKS!!!!!

      And as for aircraft carrirers without aeroplanes. Dont make laugh please. Makes as much sense as saying that you are a Conservative and that you are in Europe but not run by Europe. Its Bollocks. The whole situation will be used as a pretext to create an EU carrier Force, which was really their objective all along. Traitors one and all. The ebtire political class has Rogered us senseless!!

      • 318
        OnlyMe says:

        BAE played the old jobs card. The unions wouldn’t like it if carriers were scrapped and jobs were lost, and the politicos wouldn’t like it either, due to the effect on their electorate.

        It’s only the poor old tax-payer who gives a shit.

    • 258

      As my old mate Winston Churchill said: “I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.”

  2. 2
    Anonymous says:

    clasic there is a whole series of these on you tube

    • 102
      How Rosyth Dockyard convinced Gordon says:

      • 196
        sockpuppet #4 says:

        Holy crap.

        They too spent all their money on the boat and have a c r a p plane.

        • 439

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            DA GHRRAENE & BRRHAOUWN ADMHYYRRHUMELLA

            DA MARRAENA MARSHM#A

            *

            ASTA

    • 103
      Anonymous says:

      Excellent, it gives the” Man on the Clapham Omnibus” some sort insight into way armed forces higher ups and politicians think, to me it starts to come out like the radio comedy series on the Beeb 50 years ago, “The Navy Lark” if anyone is old enough to remember it, things do not seem to change, a bit like the warehouse full of horse shoes that was suddenly noticed.

      • 106
        Mike Hunt says:

        Left hand down a bit.

      • 112
        Anonymous says:

        Also forgot to mention the American short take off and yet unproven fighter which is going to be bought how are we going to pay for them, especially if the pound shrinks even further.

        • 132
          13eastie says:

          It only took us 60 years to pay it off last time we borrowed money from the Americans.

          • Anonymous says:

            Also forgot the number of Admirals, Vice Ads, Commodores, soon they will be sharing rowing boats, how much does an Admiral cost per year, Rome could not have conquered half the known world if its armies were as top heavy.

          • HB Pencil says:

            Well we can sack all the admirals for a start. That should save a bomb

        • 243
          Mr Ned says:

          The dollar is shrinking much faster, thanks to Obama, Congress and the Fed. They are looking at another 700 billion dollars of QE to stimulate the foreign bankers bonuses further.

        • 275
          Source, please? says:

          Sir or Madam forgets that the USD may lose value relative to the pound in the meanwhile. And surely they will owe us compensation once the 500-degree heat melts our lovely new warships (see John Bird above).

          • Splooge says:

            Nah, the excessive engine heat doesn’t matter cos our global warming commitments will stop us using them until we can power them by windmills, muesli and fermented cow shit

  3. 3
    Anonymous says:

    Bloody Dave is at it again.

    International Aid UP.

    This guy and his cronies have to go pronto.

    • 20
      Alan Duncan says:

      Everytime you clap your hands, a third world dictator gets a diamond encrusted Mercedes, courtesy of the DFID and money extorted from British taxpayers.

    • 36
      Anonymous says:

      It’s got to the point that whenever I see or hear Cameron and the rest of his Tory shysters opening their gobs then I am overcome by involuntary projectile puking. They literally make me sick! Whenever Osborne, Gove or Cameron witter on about “fairness” and why lower paid workers shouldn’t have to subsidise higher earners then I have an uncontrollable urge to stamp on their nuts till the end of time. Redistributive, socialist nonsense worthy of Harman at her finest.

      Worker A earning £45k pa pays £7.9k in tax, £4.2k in NI and the company employing him pays £5k in Employers NI. So a total of over £17k gets paid into the public pot as a result of Worker A. Worker B on £20k ends up putting just over £6k into the pot . Worker C on £12k about £2.6k.

      How the fuck in all that is holy can Worker A be subsidised by Workers B & C ?

      The Tory party as the party of aspiration and for those who want to better themselves now cease to exist. Terminate with extreme prejudice!

      • 43
        The political class can kiss my arse says:

        Hear hear!

        They’re all in it together though.

        The Big(ger) Society is that outside the doors to Westminster.

        Fuck ‘em all.

      • 195
        Noise says:

        I’m missing your point – did you write a few bits of that wrong it didn’t logically flow very well?

        When it comes to the “should the rich get benefits” argument I have always said that the rich should be ignored by the state except in unavoidable circumstances.

        By that, what I mean is – forgetting all the dross socialists numpties in the world, lets pretend that a rich man pays £4000 into a benefits system, the state spends £2000 means testing him, then gives him £2000 back. A very simple value-stream-map will show you that.

        The less people on benefits – the less people vote for socialists.

      • 436
        Rich Johnston says:

        There are a lot more Worker B and Cs than As.

    • 78
      Lord Michael Caine says:

      “Bloody Dave is at it again.
      International Aid UP”
      They are all as useless as the previous cretins and a lot of people know that.

      • 101
        Sarf of the River says:

        I pass the blue plaque in your honour at the site of your birth, St Olave’s Hospital in Rotherhithe nearly every day.

        The trouble with the English Heritage official blue plaque scheme is that not only do you have to be dead to merit one, the relevant building must still be standing.

        Southwark council therefore invented its own scheme, inviting nominations for local heroes, dead or alive, from borough residents and anyone else who cared to log on to its website.

        http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1165267.ece – paywall free

        If I owned a cap I’d doff it.

    • 97
      Banana Boat. says:

      Like giving money to a drug addict.

  4. 4

    hey gents

    I am not working today so if anyone else fancies working the bins behind old st waitrose – be my guest.

    That is all.

  5. 5
    Down with Brown! says:

    Red Ed’s response to CMD is all over the place.

    • 6
      Steve Miliband says:

      Yvette is ugly

    • 7
      Albi Here says:

      What the hell is he on.

    • 56
      Well awriiiiiiiight !!!!! says:

      I’ve only watched Ed twice….once at last week’s PMQs and to-day but he seems to have an annoying habit of standing at the Dispatch Box as the Government Benches heckle him and nodding his head and trying to stare them out whilst saying “Yes ! Yes !”

      As for Harriet she looked as if she’d sucked on a lemon and Yvette just looked miserable. I can put up with an ugly woman but not a bloody miserable one

      • 63
        oh yes! says:

        I’m sure Militwat said “oh yes” quite a few times too. He has been watching too many old film reels of John Major.

      • 64
        oh yes! says:

        I’m sure Militwat said “oh yes” quite a few times too. He has been watching too many old film reels of John Major.

        Oh yes!

        • 137
          Rat's arse says:

          Red Ed looks as if drools and dribbles a lot. He has such a slack mouth.

          • FIGHT! says:

            He’s a boss-eyed idiot too. Hardly material worthy of representing the UK on the international stage.

            What would happen if Arnie met Eddy? There’s only one way to find out…

  6. 8
    Mr Plum says:

    Not bad value they only cost as much to build as the beeb soaks up in one year, are you thinking what i’m thinking.

  7. 10
    Eileen Critchley says:

    Military men can’t manage money.

    • 17
      concrete pump says:

      Neither can politicians…

      • 18
        Mr Plum says:

        Or Bankers

        • 19
          Albi Here says:

          We should give all our money to the civil service as look at all the money they have to use,even better would be the MOD as they have a PFI building to maintain.

          • MOD Spokesperson says:

            Have you any idea how much our admin costs are? It costs a bloody fortune to run this place. You know paying 80,000+ administrators doesn’t come cheap. Anyway, must dash, off to the relaxation and chill out zone, I am sooo stressed today…

          • Anonymous says:

            Dear MOD Spokesperson,

            If you didn’t insist on carrying out orders to bomb the shit out of people who would rather you weren’t in their back yard life wouldn’t be so stressful.

            Love & kisses.

          • Live from Portsmouth dockyard says:

  8. 11
    Albi Here says:

    Jeez cast iron is really a smarmy b$stard.

    • 82
      Pasha Dave - Turkey's Bitch says:

      How dare you.

      We’re all in this together don’t forget. Well, actually it’s you lot that are in it up to your necks.

      But never mind. Look on the bright side; your betters in the political and business classes will be OK.

  9. 13
    Glen Miliband says:

    I sat near the Duchess at tea
    She asked, “Do you fart when you pee?”
    I said with some wit
    “Do you belch when you shit?”
    And felt that was one up for me

  10. 21
    Mornington Crescent says:

    Even better is Peston’s explanation:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/10/what_a_carrier_on.html

    How long until he’s chucked out…?

  11. 24
    Pacifist says:

    We don’t need an aircraft carrier, or a nuclear deterrent or any military spending. Let’s give peace a chance.

    • 41
      laughing hangman says:

      Prick

    • 42
      Osama Bin Liner says:

      Good idea.

      • 81
        Cuddle Cat says:

        Obama Bin Laden hasn’t got much in the way of deterrents however nobody can catch him, bomb him or even know where the hell he is and is perfectly capable of getting what he wants. He seems to be doing quite well without them in fact. Less is more.

        I think CallMeDave should give him a call and get some advice.

        The US should call the BBC and tell them he hasn’t paid his telly tax. They’d track him down soon enough.

        • 167
          Uncle Sam says:

          FFS Ben Laden is dead and has been for a long long time. He only is resurrected when someone or something has to be bombed. CIA can resurrect him at any time, especially if an election is imminent or there is gathering discord about the war on terrorism.

        • 253
          Must get a pseudonym one day says:

          Bin Laden is alive and well, living in comfort and luxury, courtesy of our client-state Pakistan. It is always necessary for western democracies to have a key ‘bogey-man’ in order to enable the continued extraction of taxes and the curtailment of civil liberties.

          After the Kaiser came Hitler, then Stalin, then Castro, then Communism generally, then Ayatollah Khomeni, Saddam Hussein, now Bin Laden. But never fear, whenever Osama B-L ceases to provide the cover, some other convenient bogey-man will be created, and so it goes on.

          The corporate arms industry cannot function without targets – so they just create a new target and our money continues to flow their way. The politicians are only corrupt dupes in this game. T’was ever thus.

    • 49
      All I am saying says:

      Just pissed,peace ,how the hell to we lower the gene pool with peace,how the hell do we make money to enable twits like you to spout things about peace,how the hell do we speed up technology with peace,technology triples when were are at war and doubles when we have skirmishes,all we get is people out of work with peace,war does a few things,the DNA pool gets smaller,more work for whose left,technology brings new things to sell when we eventually get peace.

      • 83
        try telling that to the war widows says:

        Are you saying millions of deaths due to war over centuries is a justifiable ‘expense’ in the quest of humanity to ‘better’ itself?

        It’s a pity the gene puddle you share didn’t dry up before the last ice age.

        Are you really pissed?

        • 285
          Source, please? says:

          Failing war, plague. The people who survived the Black Death benefitted from an unexpected redistribution of resources and kickstarted Europe’s emergence from the Dark Ages. Source=James Burke.

    • 71
      The People's Liberation Army says:

      All your bases are belong to us!

  12. 25
    The French are Revolting!! says:

    Excellent sketch, they really nailed it. Call me Dave talked a good game however whatever way you look at it a Conservative PM is massively cutting Defence spending. Call me old fashioned but I dont think thats why people vote Conservative!

    • 50
      Engineer says:

      Call me old fashioned, but ordering two aircraft carriers with contracts that cost the public more if they’re cancelled than if they’re built is a funny way of acting in the best interests of the country. It’s funny watching Labour squirm trying to find something to say now that their fox has been shot by the coalition.

      • 73
        EU & me - no thanks (country dweller) says:

        We’re still not allowed to hunt foxes you know! I thought CallMeDave was going to re-open the debate on all this nonsense.

        Just like he said he would about our relationship with the EU.

        • 256
          Must get a pseudonym one day says:

          And what about repealing the smoking ban in the interests of individual freedom of choice ?

          • Anonymous says:

            The fuckers in the House made sure that idea would be well and truly put on the back burner last week.

            Where’s a good Whip when you need one? Ah yes, defrauding the taxpayer and acting in their own self-interest as usual.

      • 86
        MI5 says:

        Ordering aircaft carriers without any fucking aircraft…

        Even the Somalis do not do things like that..

        The Goon Brown and Grining Ape Blair made decisions that cost us TENS O>F BILLIONS and don’t even work…

        And leave us without any stirk capability for a decade…

        Try the bastards for putting the nation’s defence in peril…

        They are traitors….

        • 248
          Mr Ned says:

          Correct!

          Labour are like drunk drivers that cause a crash and then start kicking the shit out of the paramedics who are trying to save the victims.

          Labour are nasty treasonous bastards, one and all.

        • 261
          The entire political class have got my Goat! says:

          Seconded MI5 You are a rock of sense. Fuck the EU and Foreign Aid (aka slush funds for nasty shitty dictators) The people of Britain demand proper defences. Lets revolt like the French. I’ll even stop applying my anti persipirant if it would help me get in the mood!!

    • 84
      Track record says:

      Tories cut the defence spending just before the Falklands war, it’s what gave the Argentine Junta the green light to try their luck….and this was still at the height of the cold war.

      • 127
        Engineer says:

        They didn’t leave the MOD with a £38 billion deficit, though.

      • 145
        Rat's arse says:

        Listen hear you lot – after 13 [THIRTEEN] years of Labour’s lunacy, you try and sort this financial mess out. Some folks have very short memories. If you want Labour back, keep whinging. I’m sure they’ll oblige and finish this country off next time.

        • 200
          Track record says:

          I don’t want Labour back, I want my fucking country back, and that means running you party tribalists and your shit Liblabcon crooks and traitors out of town.

        • 208
          Karl Marx says:

          I too am an economist. I vill come and help you sort out ze country’s finances vis my Labour friends ja?

  13. 27
    Maggie's Thatch says:

    Do you want me to come back as PM?

    • 125
      Court of Public Opinion says:

      If you promise to handbag the fuckers in the EU then yes, yes, yes!
      If you promise to handbag the muzzies here then yes, yes, yes!

      Senile or not, you’d do a better job than all of the 646 combined.

    • 176
      General Galtieri says:

      yes please – double or quits – our airforce vs your ships but no aircover this time

  14. 29
    Steve Miliband says:

    BobAinsworthMP tweets:
    In HOC dodgy Dave pretends delaying deterrent don’t put up the price and nimrod cancellation don’t make it vulnerable

    What a cnut

    • 53
      Mornington Crescent says:

      …with all the literacy you’d expect from a Shop Steward in the Trim Shop at Jaguar.

      With a cretin like that in charge, is it any wonder we’re in the shit?

  15. 31
    Better Dead than Red Ed says:

    I AM A DEFICIT DENIER AS WELL

    • 32
      Better Dead than Red Ed says:

      • 45
        Fucked, really fucked, utterly fucked, infinity fucked says:

        Debt seven point nine Trillion and growing, Osbo and Fable are going to cut down on biscuits in the staff canteen. That should do it.

        • 128
          politicians of all colours can kiss my lily white arse says:

          They’re just worried they’ll be next in the soggy biscuit competition.

          The biggest, hardest and deepest cuts will be applied to your disgraceful necks.

      • 441
        *JENNY WRRHEN says:

        *
        *
        *
        *

        PIP PIP

        A EYE FOUR A EYE

        A PENNY FOUR YORE THORTSZ,

        A DRRHOP IN DA OSHAN BLHOOUE,,

        TOLL ME IN MY AOUWHELD BLAKQUE PENNY

        TOLL OUEE IN AOUW*ER KHOPPA TREW

        MON SQRUE DRYVA

        MON LOOSE SKREW* TWHOO FFHOLLO

        MYNE PROPSHAFTA IS AWL AYERYSH

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U213864

        BERRYM#

        *

        ASTA

  16. 33
    The French are Revolting!! says:

    Wouldn’t it be cheaper to invest about £30 a year in archiving the collective speeches of Harriet Harman. That would bore any potential enemy to death and save 38billion per year. No seriously this is a disaster we need a bigger army not smaller. The other forces are about right!

  17. 37
    Margaret Moran says:

    Price List

    Dry rot treatment….£20000

    Blow job…….£7.50

    Tit wank…….£5.00

    The above with swallow….add 50p

  18. 40
    Swollen Plums says:

    Brown bummed the economy a big fucking baboon until it’s sphincter split

  19. 45
    CuttingEdge says:

    Can we have the 2 aircraft carriers named HMS Gordon Brown and HMS Tony Blair? To honour the incompetence of their namesakes…preferably with the one scheduled for decommissioning after 3 years (without deploying a single fighter) named after the one-eyed Scottish twat who lasted about the same time and was just as useless…

    • 54
      streamfisher says:

      It would only take two exocets for Davy Jones locker.

      • 60
        Les affaires sont des affaires, n'est-ce pas ? says:

        Which of course the French would be only to happy to supply to any passing “Argie” Junta

  20. 48
    Puffin says:

    Alan Johnson is reading Deficit Denial For Dummies and How To Lie Your Way Out Of Recession written by U N Hinged

  21. 51
    Mike Hunt says:

    “There is not money left, good luck”
    Liam Burne.

    When the coffers are empty, you have to stop spending.

  22. 52
    Von Rumpo says:

    Come here little Davy
    Help with our EU navy
    You will get a get some gravy
    When the boat comes in

  23. 59
    Mickey Handycapcock says:

    Any ladies paralysed from the neck down wanna be touched up? Oh my pwincess, give me a chance. XXX

  24. 61
    The Watcher says:

    An American friend once said to me, as he remarked on the death of the United Kingdom, “Watching the UK is like watching Rome turn into Italy”.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis210.html

    • 99
      Decline and Fall says:

      We even have the barbarian hoards in place ready to divi up the country when the time’s right.

      The only comfort will be the knowledge that almost ever other western country will be in the same boat. Even the great USA will be suffering demographic change and a slide to third world status and social disorder.

      I seriously doubt there will still be 50 states in the US in 50 years time.

      • 138
        Dick Robinson says:

        I think Japan is the only major economy that has consistently refused mass immigration despite their declining birth rate and economic problems. They may be in the shit at the moment but I think they will benefit in the long term.

    • 116
      smoggie says:

      Your friend is a plagiarist. The original quotation comes from Paul Theroux who said that the British were Romans in the process of becoming Italians.

      • 133
        Debbie McGee says:

        I want Paul Theroux’s babies. Paul never does any magic in the bedroom department.

        • 135
          Debbie McGee says:

          Why was the above modded? You’re turning into Iain Dale quicker than I previously thought.

  25. 62
    Dick Robinson says:

    I read a post somewhere else saying that we should name these 2 white elephants “HMS Gordon Brown” and “HMS Tony Blair” and sell them off to some oil rich arab to turn them into theme parks.

    • 66
      Dick Robinson says:

      @45
      Oh, someone else saw it too.

    • 301
      Modded unfairly says:

      A while back, someone had the genius idea of calling them the ] HMS Boom and HMS Bust, respectively. Aside from the militarism implied in the word ‘boom’, I cannot think why this disappeared.

  26. 69
    EU sellout says:

    We’re being softened up for the next step of the EU cancer- an EU defence force.

    B,B&F really got it just right!

  27. 70
    Down with Brown! says:

    Ed Miliband poll bounce = the feeblest for any new Labour leader for more than half a century.

  28. 72
    Lard Prescott says:

    Aye Lad, this pigswill is bludy marvelous.

  29. 75
    Ayesha Hazarika says:

    If a class does badly in a test, then the teacher has failed.

    If a man dies on the operating table, then the surgeon has failed.

    If a country goes completely bakrupt, then the government has failed.

    If a British aid worker has returned home safely, the US military has failed.

  30. 77
    • 380
      Rolf Harris says:

      Thanks but no thanks.

      He has been to the same hand and arm waving course as all the other bloody wasters in Westminster have.

      Can you see what it is yet? It’s bullshit!

  31. 79
  32. 85
    Softly spoken Defence secretary says:

    How much does a big stick cost?

  33. 88
    Dack Blog says:

    Couldn’t we get James May to build some out of Meccano and Lego?

  34. 89
    BBC Tum says:

    Sky News reporting that the World Service no longer to be funded by the FO and the TV licence fee to be frozen for 6 years.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    • 90
      BBC Tumbleweed Watch says:

      Moniker chopped off in its prime…

    • 383
      man in the street says:

      Excellent news! Bravo, more of this please etc.

      Any chance the corrupt arseholes in Brussels will get their British originated funding removed? Ah, ok… FUCK!

  35. 91
    South of the M4 says:

    Oh dear. The Severn Barrage yesterday, and the defence training academy at St. Athan today. Both cancelled. Not a great day for our Welsh friends. Although both were prohibitively expensive from day 1 and were never going to run to completion. Just provided hot air to make politicians look good.

    • 118
      My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:

      move all training facilities to wales ffs in six months half the armed forces would be on the “sick”

      • 136
        Engineer says:

        Our current and most recent deployments have been in deserts and tropical areas, so we were going to train personnel in….Wales?

        • 189
          sockpuppet #4 says:

          If you have ever seen “carry on up the khyber” you’ll know that afganistan looks just like north wales.

        • 265
          Must get a pseudonym one day says:

          But once the local had introduced them to the delights of soft and woolly sheep, you’d never get them back to camel-humping with all that inconveniently painful sand.

          • Anonymous says:

            The barrage would have been an environmental disaster.

          • eh? says:

            Fish and other Severn dwelling creatures aren’t as stupid as you. They’d work it all out sooner or later. Rather like we have with natural changes in temperatures over millennia.

            Don’t tell the ardent warmistas such as CallMeDave and Gore though. They might throw their toys out of the pram when they realise they can’t raise taxes to ‘protect’ us from nature.

  36. 93
    Labour defence brief says:

    TOP SECRET

    We signed a whole looad of unfunded contracts (estimate £ 51 billion)

    We did not know what we were doing

    It will cost as much to cancel them as to execute them.

    So lie low with the Tories and Libdems…

    THIS IS A HUGE SCANDAL

    TRY TO COVER IT UP

    CALL THE BBC..

    (Along with about £ 2 trillion we pissed up the wall in other Departments to try and get reelected)

    PS This is worse than a Ponzi Scheme comrades…

  37. 96
    The Con Man Blair says:

    Hello boys and girls

    I’m so bloody rich now you would not believe it

    And we shorted sterling you know at Morgan Stanely where I am paid £ 5 million to offer my contacts…

    Even Slotgob is happy – and that takes some doing

    But the best of all is that the French love me..

    I signed those Blaircaft Carrier deals which cost more to cancel than to build…

    Lots of “consullting” work with the French at the moment..

    toodle pip…

    And you know I’m non-dom now so fook you all with your tax increases…

    • 98
      Dear Mr Bliar says:

      Is it true you buy Slotgob a new pair of shoes every day? Wouldn’t that money be put to better use by getting your fat daughter some lipo?

  38. 100
    Mr Plum says:

    Look on the bright side we’ve still got HMS Victory and its CO2 friendly.

    • 119
      Chloe Sal Gerbeeba says:

      Time to recommission the Mary Rose, perhaps ?

    • 121
      South of the M4 says:

      We used to have the Cutty Sark, but I seem to remember that producing rather a lot of CO2………..

    • 139
      RAF says:

      The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight stands ready for action, sir. Just need to find a couple of bouncing bombs somewhere.

      • 391
        Anonymous says:

        I’ve got the bombs if you’ve got the time.

        Unfortunately they are hard wired to hit the Palace of Westminster. They do look rather marvellous as they bounce over various bridges on the way though.

  39. 105
    Dack Blog says:

    Catching up with the news it seems the thing that’s got the public riled the most is the heinous crime of putting a cat in a bin.

    And I note a police spokesman after the prince murders servant verdict claiming that you can’t escape justice in Britain ‘whoever you are’. Hmmm…

    • 114
      Mr Plum says:

      Oh and rooney’s going, man u’s strike force now on par with armed forces

    • 117
      smoggie says:

      Quite. The cat is recyclable and should not have gone in the green wheelie bin.

    • 142
      Engineer says:

      A £250 fine for fifteen hours in a wheelie-bin works out at £16.66 per hour. I know people who would take that job….

      • 152
        Dack Blog says:

        I’d take a job in cat disposal for less than the minimum wage…

        • 166
          Engineer says:

          Does volunteering for cat disposal duties count as a contribution to the Big Society?

          • Dack Blog says:

            It does in my book. No more disgusting piles of cat poo in non cat-owning neighbouring gardens (would have saved me eighty quid on that sonic cat-zapper), millions of little wild/urban creatures saved, relief from the frustrated disdain at the checkout seeing that some tv ad sucker saddo in front has spent a fortune on ‘gourmet’ cat slush, not having to avert your eyes from the litter trays that people (inexplicably) seem to have under their kitchen tables, and no exposure to cat photos fondly brandished by lonely menopausal women at work. Bliss.

          • Engineer says:

            A good way to deal with vermin is to turn it into a gourmet delicacy, as with North American crayfish, rabbits, and in some places, grey squirrels. We need some decent recipes – cat au vin, chilli con catne, steak catare, that sort of thing. (Could even cook up some mouseaka to bait the traps with.)

          • Modded unfairly says:

            Steack Chat-haut-briand?

    • 396
      Saudi Arabia : corruption on a global scale says:

      Why and how has the Saudi Royal pervert (grandson of the Saudi king) and murderer managed to prevent the usual plod mug shot being plastered far and wide?

      How much money / BAE contracts / etc have been discussed at ‘high’ levels?

      In case you missed it —> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/slideshow/ALeqM5h0ZMg0HnThGf-bdGcINiHb4hiDeg?docId=CNG.187f08033fe68c98d16032a3c93790a9.621&index=0&ned=uk

      Homosexuality is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia. He should be deported to serve the rest of his sentence.

  40. 107
    MB. says:

    The cancellation of the Nimrod means that the UK now has no fixed wing Search and Rescue aircraft able to mount a search offshore, we will be completely reliant on helicopters with shorter range. Also it is normal to give “top cover” to a helicopter going out into the Atlantic so they have help on hand if they ditch, the fixed wing aircraft can also guide them straight to the vessel in distress to save time.

    • 120
      smoggie says:

      Go offshore at your peril then.

      So the Nimrods in the air at this moment have been recalled?

      • 123
        Down with Brown! says:

        Blame Brown. He wasted all the money.

        • 168
          Cassandra King says:

          Plenty of money for quangos and foreign aid and the NHS and education and yuman rights and the EU.

          So Brown didnt spend all the money after all did he? There is plenty of money to spend on defence its the will and the priorities of the coalition that are the driving force of the great betrayal.
          I know you have to field the excuses provided for you from CCHQ and change your moniker each time but lets be clear here, we do know what the real game is and blaming Brown for the tories betrayal is not a little pathetic.

      • 268
        Ted Bundy says:

        The bloody things are flying death traps anyway. The new version was reusing the 40 + year old airframes from the original. Why dont they just buy something decent off the shelf instead of messing around with a pile of old junk that started out as the De Haviland Comet.

        • 429
          Devil's Dumplings says:

          There isn’t anything on the shelf, anywhere. The yanks are developing a replacement for the aging Orion, but that’s years away. MR capability is V expensive but nobody’s mentioned the ‘soft skills’ that will be lost in the meantime. The RAF were THE best at Maritime Patrol tactics – bar none. Find, fix, strike, kill, not: find, fail to fix, lost contact, stumble around for a bit………..

      • 283
        MB. says:

        “So the Nimrods in the air at this moment have been recalled?”

        What Nimrods? The MR2 were retired in March, there are three(?) R1 SIGINT Nimrods which will be retired next March.

  41. 108
    Poor Bill says:

    Traitor Tories, at it again.

    If they love those nice young French sailors so much Fuc* off over there and stay.

    Last time they get my vote. Fuvking scum

  42. 109
    johnny says says:

    Nimrod canceled. Eventually. An upgrade of old airframes rather than fully modern ones ordered by a Conservative Government in 1996 that in 13 years Labour didn’t seem interested in either giving it the heave ho or a kick up the arse.

    It should never have taken so long. It should never have been so costly.

    Regarding carriers this is all part of the European Integration of armed forces. Our representatives pretend that they are retaining interoperability (like NATO) but what they are implementing is interdependence. British carriers with French aircraft and utterly reliant on Dutch, Spanish, German etc nations to provide escort ships. They’ll not be sailing anywhere without complete agreement and so won’t be sailing anywhere.

    Defence needn’t be this expensive and wasteful but Parliament has seen fit to treat the MoD as a distant quango.

  43. 113
    Mongtastic says:

    Has Sion Simon had a child?

  44. 115
    Cassandra King says:

    That demon eyes poster about Blair could have been designed for Dave, he is the UKs most dangerous enemy to date.
    Welcome to the federal EU courtesy of the honest Dave and his band of traitors, selling the UK down the river and betraying us all.

    How can you tell the difference between Gordon Brown and David Cameron?
    One is a lying cheating traitor and the other thinks he is saviour of the planet.

    How can you tell Cameron is lying? his mouth opens.

    • 155
      Christmas is coming says:

      Cassandra: How can you tell you’re a Labour Party activist? You talk utter shite!

      • 162
        Cassandra King says:

        Dream on CiC I hate labour as much as I hate this fake eurostooge party formerly known as the tory party.

        So you know the truth now and you cannot deny the evidence before your eyes, Cameron betrayed you(if you are a tory)and Cameron has lied to you about his intentions.
        So tell me CiC, do you want to see the UK as a region of the federal EU and are you happy to see the UK reduced to a mere vassal region with its armed forces forming part of the new federal EU armed forces?

        So lets be honest and open about who is talking shite shall we? The CONservative party denied us a referendum on Europe after lying to us about it, the approved extra funding to the EU even as they slash defence spending, they lied about the quango cull and now the evidence is clear that they are traitors selling the UK into servitude. You either agree that the UK should become a region of the EU or you think the UK should be a sovereign independent nation reflecting the will of the British people, if its the former you are no right wing real tory and if its the latter you should be ripping up your party card right now.

        • 187
          Fed up with that Cassandra King says:

          Ooooh er! get her! Get a life Ms King – outside of blogging on Guido.

  45. 121
    Down with Brown! says:

    Toenails announces:

    The BBC licence fee is to be freezed for 6 years.

    Don’t worry you can save all the money by sacking Toenails and Marr.

    • 141
      Dick Robinson says:

      Would work out at a real-terms budget cut of 16%, he claimed.

      About time the BBC started living in the real world.

      • 164
        Down with Brown! says:

        More from Toenails:

        The BBC will also take over the cost of the World Service and Monitoring Service, currently funded by the Foreign Office, and pay the government’s contribution to funding the Welsh-language channel S4C

        Maybe they can sack a number of the Today presenters and give Stephanie Flanders back to the Labour party to make up the balance.

    • 267
      Must get a pseudonym one day says:

      Wouldn’t worry Marr too much now – since the child maintenance stopped he’s been feeling quite flush.

  46. 131
    Barbara Billingsley RIP says:

    She was a legend! Rest In Peace.

  47. 143
    Mr Plum says:

    What will happen to the 42,000 who will lose their jobs.

    • 148
      Engineer says:

      Early retirement with added years to their pension entitlements, or a juicy voluntary redundancy package.

      • 181
        Someone says:

        So how is paying someone to do nothing better than paying someone to do something?

        • 193
          Down with Brown! says:

          They will get one of the 2,000,000 jobs that lower taxes will allow the private sector to create.

        • 364
          OnlyMe says:

          It’s better because:

          you pay them less

          they weren’t doing a real job anyway

          they were probably counter-productive

          they were part of the State who like to stick their noses into our lives

  48. 149
    Poor Bill says:

    For the stupid of Fleet Street I will explain the reasoning behind the decision on the new Carriers.

    Let me take you back to 1999, in the outer offices of FOST Plymouth. ( Flag Officer Sea Training )

    Chatting about defence cuts due.

    “ No Plymouth is staying. It is already marked down as the main training facility of the Euro-Navy, Dartmouth and Portsmouth will go first.”

    “Bollocks, the Admirals retire to Dartmouth and will never give it up and in a choice between Plymouth and Portsmouth we all know you can only get to a show in the Smoke and back in one night from Pompey.”

    “No the long term decisions have been made. Guzz will be FOST north-Europe. The three carriers will be built but the third is going to be run by the Germans.”

    “Fuck off.”

    “We know we need three to keep one at sea, so we get three but one will carry a German Flight”.

    “Fuck off”

    “No think about it, the Germans have no carrier experience, they can gain that on this carrier and then supply a carrier of their own towards the Euro-fleet”.

    Well now we will have a spare Carrier, I wonder who will volunteer to help us man it ?

    I am hoping that someone will open a book on it, Paddy Power may be ? I’ve got a grand for that bet.

    ( The French Carrier being nuclear powered will of course be the Flag Ship of the Euro-Fleet.)

    Even if it is Fuc*ed. ( Fleet street knows this already )

    • 156
      Poor Bill says:

      While I’m here one more thing.

      The primary foreign policy objective of (some, you know who) Europeans is the recovery of the still occupied areas of Eastern Europe.

      That’s East Prussia to you. Kaliningrad to the enemy.

      Good Luck !

  49. 150
    Down with Brown! says:

  50. 159
    same old same old says:

    I thought all these announcements were to be made to the Commons first in this new cleaned up Parliament.

  51. 172
    It's not difficult says:

    Why has the BBC got so many channels?

    All they need is BBC1 BBC2 BBC News & Radios 123 and 4

    And What’s more they can switch off at midnight after playing the national Anthem and start up again at 6 am.

    • 183
      White Van Man says:

      Here here!

    • 199
      nell says:

      Nope the beeb is useless at news. It’s simply a leftwing biased mouthpiece for the labour party.

      It needs to stick to historical drama and the natural world and we don’t need to be paying a license fee for it.

      • 204
        many fund the few says:

        Why are English telly tax payers paying a small fortune for a full on Welsh language service that only one or two taffs watch?

        • 214
          Simples says:

          Because they’re fucking idiots.
          Tell Crapita to get knotted.

        • 215
          Neil Kinnock says:

          Me and the missus watch it all the time boyo. We count our money at the same time see. We’re very proud of what Labour done for Wales look you.

    • 212
      Poor Bill says:

      The BBC.

      Marxist Media Providing The Illusion Of Choice

      • 216
        nell says:

        There’s nothing illusory about marr and peston!

        They’re out and out syncophants of brownite commie socialism.

        And unless the beeb gets rid of them, and it won’t, it will never be able to claim that its news reporting is impartial.

  52. 173
    Sitting on the steps of the Bastille stroking Nanette says:

    Mon suggestionne iz that you all take to the streets and demandez early retirement for ze admirals and ze politicians – all of them. Et their wives et aides et advisors et Wayne Rooney.

    • 203
      nell says:

      The french of course are very good at mass demonstrations as evidence this last few days.

      The tuc was hoping to emulate them but their ‘less than 3000′ turnout in london today was a bit of a damp squib.

      Of course militwit, despite promises to the contrary, was also missing, so that was another one not swelling their unenthusiastic numbers.

      • 403
        Anonymous says:

        And the c u n t s voted for him!

        ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

        Stick that up your fat arse Crow.

    • 378
      OnlyMe says:

      All together Brothers and Sisters!

      What do we want?

      OTHER PEOPLES’ MONEY!

      When do we want it?

      NOW AND FOREVERMORE!

  53. 174
    Fred Meerkat says:

    Two carriers/ Simples, build one, use the rest of the money to buy the planes and keep Ark Royal going until the new ONE comes into service?

    SIMPLES!!!!!!!!?

    • 213
      liberal Dave says:

      Dave does not do simple solutions. He is fully signed up to the EU, that is why he has little opposition from Labour and his liberal mates.

    • 221
      nell says:

      2 unnecessary aircraft carriers , ordered by gordon on credit, to be built in scotland, solely to bolster the waning vote for him in his constituency at the last election.

      He knew, aintbustinagut knew, the whole labour government knew, that not only that the country did not need and could not afford the carriers, they also knew that what money that they’d printed that was left, after their spending orgy, needed to go towards the protection of the Army in Afghanistan.

      And yet still they starved the Army of funds in Afghanistan and bought carriers (and labour jobs/votes in scotland) !!

      • 224
        string him up says:

        quite agree.

        I reckon Gordon should be held to account, from a noose.

      • 274
        Gordon Brown says:

        Nell anymore posts like that and I’ll withdraw your winter allowance and free telly you bigoted old Tory harridan

  54. 188
    Tactical option says:

    1 Lancaster bomber.
    1 Tallboy.
    Target: HoC, noon Wednesday.
    Enemies of the Nation eliminated.
    Live in peace.

    • 381
      OnlyMe says:

      Are you sure you’re not London Jihadist?

      • 406
        We will do our best says:

        He sounds like a thoroughly decent Englishman to me. Back in my day I did my bit with Bob a Job at the Cubs.

        Tough times call for tough measures.

  55. 190
    White Van Man says:

    Our carriers should have been nuclear powered anyway, I just don’t get the argument that its more expensive than two Rolls-Royce 36 MW gas turbine generator units and four Wartsila Diesel Generator units! The fill up price on that set up would be eye watering, and every 10,000 miles too, you can’t beat nuclear power for large naval vessels.
    Ask the Americans and everyone else!

  56. 198
    Doc Trough says:

    BBC. Just because Greg Dyke once worked there, doesn’t mean every monkey-booted rug snuffler who chucks a CV in should be given a job. None of them will ever grow a respectable bunch of clag grapes – which should be career limiting. Chuffed to NAAFI breaks.

  57. 201
    Anonymous says:

    The BBC is REJOICING that MRS T has been taken to hospital

    • 207
      Down with Brown! says:

      Get well soon, Saviour of Britain.

      • 239
        Gordon Brown says:

        Thanks, I will.

      • 408
        Anonymous says:

        Her knackered old handbag has more class and balls than CallMeDave ever had or ever will.

        I’m surprised Harridan Harmperson doesn’t worship at her feet. Maybe it’s because Thatcher is white, intelligent and presents a threat. Harridan just likes making ‘people of colour’ and poorer people feel better about themselves.

        No Pressure!

  58. 205
    WHAT A FUCKING MUPPET says:

    Why are these new aircraft carriers being altered to accommodate French and American planes yet more money wasted to alter them into floating motels for countries that still value their military

    Dave you are fast becoming a close second to Gordon Brown !

    • 217
      Misunderstood Rapist says:

      Said the fucking muppet

      • 226
        WHAT A FUCKING MUPPET says:

        Fuck Off Colin !
        Misunderstood arse rapist TAT !
        Thats You That Is !

        i thought you would know better trial pending and all !

        http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/15/jane_troll/

        Still rimming Martin Webster TAT ?

        • 228
          Misunderstood Rapist says:

          Said the rimming arse rapist

          • WHAT A FUCKING MUPPET says:

            Ner ner na ner ne i said it first
            ha ha ha ha ha
            wheres yer blog TaT ?
            ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !

          • Misunderstood Rapist says:

            He’s probably too busy doing your underage daughter.

            I on the other hand, don’t know who the fucker is.

            You are, and shall always remain, a wanker.

        • 302
          William Hagues Fetching Pink Tie says:

          If you giant arsehole, TaT was the guy who leaked the expenses disk and scandal to the telegraph but before doing so got odds on a hung parliament, then laid down the money the telegraph gave him and made MILLIONS.

          The guy is a living legend.

    • 220
      Engineer says:

      It’s a subtle plan to partially recoup the running costs of the carriers. When the Yanks and Frogs turn up, they’ll be charged a fee for parking on the carrier (not for landing, just parking); quite cheap for a spot on deck, but a premium rate for a nice covered hanger space. If they overstay the stated time on their ticket, a party of Marines will wheelclamp them, and charge a swingeing fine to remove the clamp. In the last resort, they’ll be towed away and slung over the side, and still fined.

  59. 210
    Dixon says:

    Can someone please explain why being tormented by yobs for years and making a person’s life a living hell, less important than placing a pussy in the safety of a secure plastic container, to the British police?

    • 242
      KL says:

      Two wrongs don’t make a right

      • 385
        TwatWatch says:

        O! Won’t somebody think of all the bacteria that are daily slaughtered in this country with hygien products!

        Come on KL, don’t just think of pussy, think of the poor innocent bacteria!

        !
        !!!!

        • 409
          My HandyCock up your arse is worth more than a cumshot in your face says:

          I like thinking about mong pussy.

  60. 218
    cut the Fat says:

    On PM this evening. 3 manchester councils have got together, share the same pay computer result £3 million saved. They openly admitted if they could pooled the pay staff then much much more money would be saved. SO WHY DON’t they do it?

    do Tesco have a full back office team for every store? Like fuck they do, they have one for the whole company.

  61. 219
    Dwayne the Chav says:

    I fucking hate this government. Our council house has been in the family for generations. I’ve supported the benefit system all my life and I’m teaching my 10 kids to do the same. These Tory bastards are trying to do me out of my legitimate inheritance. Bring back Labour, the friend of the non-working man.

    • 229
      Soft Dave says:

      Why?

      No Balls Dave is only bringing in this new rule for future council house tennants. You will still be able to exploit the council tax payer to your grave.

    • 234
      WHAT A FUCKING MUPPET says:

      These tory bastards are trying to win the “Scum vote” at the expence of middle England Dont hit the filthy rich (Our Friends) or the filth class
      just hit the hard working middle classes
      well “Call me Dave” have i got news for you
      you are wasting your time
      these people will never vote for you and you will be out on your public school arse after your first term
      you are a joke !

      • 236
        WHAT A FUCKING MUPPET says:

        By the way I am a dribbling imbecile. Ooh I hate Dave. Yeah – and other shit.

  62. 225
    IGGY says:

    The more I see and listen to the Cameron and his jolly Con men the less I like. It appears to me that he is as much a con man actor as Blair and has as much back bone as a ruptured jelly fish. Is there no one out there capable of acting as a statesman / woman to lead this country away from the NWO / EU doctrines.

    • 230
      IGGY says:

      To criticise wonderful David is a crime against moderation!!

    • 241
      Pop says:

      “Is there no one out there capable of acting as a statesman / woman to lead this country away from the NWO / EU doctrines.”

      Not in the LibLabCon all in it up to our necks parties.

      Next move?

      • 249
        nell says:

        We need Sebastian Pinera!!

        • 251
          IGGY says:

          What somebody who knows how to make political capital from a disaster? Sounds a bit like our Tony and Gordon.

          • nell says:

            Er No. gordon never knew how to take a political decision let alone make political capital out of anything. Everything he did turned to dust!

            As for bliar , I’m not sure I’d say his decision to go to war in Ir+++q made him any political capital. ‘Course we all know that decision has since made bliar loads of the other sort of £capital. I suspect that was deliberate on his part.

          • nell says:

            And truly those miners stuck half a mile underground under 700k ton of rock would still be there if gordon or bliar were their leader.

            Neither of them would have gambled their own political credibility on getting them out as Pinera did.

            gordon and bliar would have judged their political survival to be more important than the lives of 33 ordinary men ! And they would have gone and hid!!!!

            Viva Pinera!

          • IGGY says:

            Yep! Handy guy with a shovel!!

        • 257
          William Hagues Fetching Pink Tie says:

          ……………ZZZZZ

          • IGGY says:

            Obviously past your bed time sonny?

          • nell says:

            Well young bliar what can we say but Bless!

            His decision to make war on Ir+++q on a lie, has sure benefitted his children hasn’t it??!

          • Wily's cupboard full of weed plants Mr Plod says:

            Well young tony Cameron the heir to bliar what can we say but Bless!

            His decision to support war on Ir+++q on a lie, has sure benefitted his children hasn’t it??!

          • nell says:

            Er no sorry al campbell , it is an accepted fact that bliar has made £millions for himself and his family by going to war in ir+++q.

            I guess you too have done quite well out of it!!

        • 410
          Anonymous says:

          “We need Sebastian Pinera!!”

          No, just retribution. Bloody, painful retribution.

  63. 227
    Bystander says:

    I think I’ve spotted the Spanish Amanada coming up the Chanel, come quick big trouble ahead

  64. 231
    Bob Crow's nest says:

    I can equip those carriers with two squadrons of flying pickets.

  65. 232
    Bystander says:

    Could the staff at Northern Rock be trained to make some aeroplanes?

  66. 244
    WHAT A FUCKING MUPPET says:

    This is what happens if you let the yanks loose on your aircraft carrier !

    • 262
      WHAT A FUCKING MUPPET says:

      Ooh, I post pictures of shit because I’m too dumb to say anything interesting. And my moniker is so funny – get it ‘what a fuckign muppet’ eh – I am one.

    • 271
      the beast of clerkenwell says:

      Thank goodness uncooked Frey Bentos faced David Cameron has cancelled all aircraft for our aircraft carriers
      The navy will now be a safer work environment

      • 412
        Anonymous says:

        “uncooked Frey Bentos faced David Cameron”

        LOL!

        His mouth even resembles the vent slit you often get in the wet, otherwise featureless expanse of goo.

  67. 245
    Had a revelation says:

    I’m just going to set up a charity and con everyone and live the high life, every other corrupt fucker is doing it and the goverrnment just loves giving them money.

  68. 250
    William Hagues Fetching Pink Tie says:

    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I SAY

  69. 255
  70. 263
    Down with Brown! says:

    Osborne’s austerity package praised in advance by Mervyn King, Bank of England governor.

  71. 270
    Will.I.Am Hague says:

    Me is no a batty boy blud. Me did that Cheryl Cole. She 1 fit ho

  72. 273
    nell says:

    “More expensive, less capable” as a condemnation on labour’s mod buying policies!!

    It says everything about the last labour government.

    I notice aintbustinagut is now trying to present himself as a ‘defence expert’ no doubt with an eye to future lucrative jobs.

    Advice to aintbustinbgut ‘go looking for a day job as a bin man and don’t hold your breath’ !!!

    • 289
      Dripper says:

      Labour were and are shit at most things, their understanding and abilities are proven to be very suspect and apparently corrupt. However the Libby Con job now in place appears to be rapidly disappearing down the same plug hole! I’m afraid that measures taken so far seem to beggar belief in some cases! OK though, if you are one of the Special Few!!
      Now that a precedent has been set with all these expenses ‘mistakes’ in parliament I imagine that any individuals convicted of misappropriation will be fine provide they explain that it was a ‘mistake’ and are willing to reimburse any victim?? Just like some MPs and Members of the House of Lords?

      • 316
        nell says:

        Sorry but nobody, not even the world’s worst clowns could be as bad as gordon , kevan, and aintbustinagut!!

        Not Ever!!!

      • 390
        innit says:

        If you accept we are in deep financial shit then you have to accept that the cuts are necessary. If you don’t accept the former, then your opinions are worthless.

        • 405
          Anonymous says:

          Until a single diversity co-ordinator or community engagement adviser is fired then I will only accept that you are talking unadulterated shite about the necessity for cuts.

  73. 277
    Mines a Pint says:

    Get fucking Uddin to cough up the money. The thieving bitch.

    And cut the head of that Gay Saudi while you at it.

    • 282
      nell says:

      You are being silly.

      uddin is not going to repay that money – she is off to her marble palace never to return.

      as for that saudi prince – we all hope he is just about to find armageddon. He deserves it!!

      I wonder where bobcrow is tonight surely he is not in cuba with his honeys?!!

      • 290
        All I am saying says:

        Nell you had better hope no Brit is pulled in Jeddah,Riyadh,Damam in the next few weeks accused of something the would get his head off his shoulders, as no doubt he would be used in exchange for this prince,the House of Saud is a big big family and looks after it’s own.

        • 300
          nell says:

          I respect your concerns they are very real!!

          At the same time this man is very evil and I find it difficult to believe the familysaud are going to want to rescue him from the hole he has dug for himself.

          As for his defenceless victim – rip!

          • Dripper says:

            This is without doubt an informative and amusing website. The views expressed are diverse and not shackled by fear or intimidation. There is no bias here (unlike the BBC), fair and accurate representations of individuals’ views are always publicised uncensored. I also believe in Father Xmas and the Tooth Fairy and rely on the moderation of contributions to protect the population of this country from unclean thoughts. FFS!!!

          • nell says:

            Sorry dripper but you really do need to be on the beeb = they are much more about what you believe!!!

  74. 279
    Chris Myers Fan Club says:

    Love ITV news, sooooo amusing to watch them desperately trying to put a positive spin on the CUTS, currently running a happiness poll….Jesus !!!!!!!!

  75. 280
    Dave Bentos says:

    I sell the worlds biggest and bestest pies
    You have my cast iron guarantee on that
    I am also dyslexic

  76. 281
    Chris Myers Fan Club says:

    Cameron has sent Thatcher his best wishes. That’s it she is as good as dead ( Cambo Curse )

  77. 284
    Chris Myers Fan Club says:

    Help for heros. – PICK UP YOUR P45 ON THE WAY OUT MATE !!!!!

  78. 286

    Beers do shit in woods

  79. 288
    William Hagues Fetching Pink Tie says:

    Cameron will be a one term wonder, the Cons better dump him for a real winner when the time comes otherwise they can kiss British Politics goodbye.

    • 414
      Anonymous says:

      Why do the fuckers deserve a second chance?

      Try something a bit ‘daring’, you know, stop voting for the same old same old every bloody time. There are quite a few others apart from the usual suspects LabConDem.

  80. 295
    White Van Man says:

    Irony not being a strong suit with the mongs.

    Then she asks
    Where are you from?
    Who are you funded by?
    Hahahahaha…

  81. 298
    Chris Myers Fan Club says:

    We are building a Carrier so that the French Aircraft can land on it…………Can you imagine in Brown annouced that. Enjoy the bloggs Tory apologists

    • 306
      William Hagues Fetching Pink Tie says:

      You mean the polls surely?

    • 311
      nell says:

      Let’s be honest. We are building two billion dollar aircraft carriers because brown wanted to create non jobs in fife so that they’d vote for him in the last election!!

      Now we find we can’t even afford to pay for them, and in any case they have no useful purpose!

      How very labour!!

      • 325
        William Hagues Fetching Pink Tie says:

        And yet Cameron is prime minister and can’t cancel them?

        Doesn’t wash with the voters who still think they are electing the most powerful person in the United Kingdom to speak and act in their best interests and not some EU regional director following Nato orders which is the reality….

      • 334
        William Hagues Fetching Pink Tie says:

        If this is Camerons best way of handling the situation, I would hate to see his worst….

        • 349
          nell says:

          This was gordon and ainbustinagut’s best way to handle the situation.

          I’d hate to see their worst!!

  82. 323
    ++Breaking News++ says:

    Thatch talen to hospital with infection.

    • 333
      nell says:

      My goodness. She still captures the news doesn’t she?

      Can’t imagine bliar or brown doing the same thing. Guess we’d all wish them to hades!!

      Mrs T – God Bless.

      • 346
        ++Breaking News++ says:

        Let’s start the betting on whether she’ll make it through the night.

        • 354
          nell says:

          Hmm Let’s start the betting on whether the beeb will make it through this coalition government.

          I do hope not!!

          Dismember it and sell it off around the world!!

          Great money for the taxpayer!!

          • Dream on says:

            Mr Cameron stressed that he supported the BBC

            He said: “The BBC is an important national institution. I want to see it prosper and succeed and be a fantastic cultural asset.”

            He added that he was a “supporter of the licence fee”

            Jeremy Hunt Conservative MP, Culture Secretary

            “I believe that the BBC is a great national institution.”

            “I am proud of the BBC. I think that most British people think that we are very lucky to have a BBC and most people who aren’t British, if they don’t have a BBC, wish they did have one.”

            “I don’t see the BBC as a State broadcaster. “I think people see the BBC as operating at arms length from the government and it’s very important that it should continue to do so and that’s why we’ve said we will protect the BBC charter.”

            Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg has defended the BBC, saying it’s “unique in the world and we should be proud of it” and said the trend for politicians to constantly attack it was wrong.

          • Anonymous says:

            Fuck off nell. Euthanasia is just about legal now you know.

        • 359
          Arthur Daly MP says:

        • 367
          nell says:

          I suspect a better bet will be whether militwit’s labour even get’s a look in at the next election.

          Not likely is it??!!

        • 372
          Thatchers Living Will says:

          she’s going to have some nice pudding

        • 417
          Anonymous says:

          Thatcher or nell?

  83. 342
    The BBC says:

    I’m disgusted at the cuts to the BBC budget with the 6 year freeze.

    • 360
      nell says:

      Well troughing peston and marr .

      I expect you are!!!

      But I think the gravy train is finally running into the buffers!!

      • 368
        nell gump says:

        because you’re a senile old twat dear

        I’ll bet you all that you own [6 turnips] it will be here after the next election

        wavy davy supports the BBC you dim twat

    • 365
      An Admiral says:

      So am I. They should have closed the whole place down and spent all the money on the navy.

      • 382
        nell says:

        OMG Admiral all that beeb money spent on the Navy.!!!

        Would have been much more worthwhile than thrown away on the beeb , wouldnlt it??!!

  84. 352
    Arthur Daly MP says:

    Cuts? What cuts?
    Do me a favour sailor!

  85. 353
    Ed Miliband: Do you like the taste of my new generation? says:

  86. 355
    The mad axe man cometh says:

    Oh I’m telling yer, I just can’t fuckin wait for tomorrow, them blood sucking parasites wont know what hit um!
    I’m coming to get YOUUUUUU, yes that’s YOU!

    Chop chop chop, mhahahahahaha!

  87. 356
    Cameron is a Liar says:

    HYPOCRISY WATCH – DAY 4

    David Cameron still hasn’t sacked his expenses piggy whip and old etonian schoolfriend Bill Wiggins despite his explicit promise to do so.

    “We’re all in this together”

    Except for my Eton chums because they’re better than you Oiks.

    • 370
      Labour hypocrisy says:

      Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Blair employ and his old flatmate Charles Faulkner and even ennoble him?

      • 373
        Cameron is a Liar says:

        two mongs don’t make a right

        Blair’s a Liar 1000 times over for Iraq

        but we can plainly see his mini-me Dave the heir to Blair is also a Lying c*nt

  88. 358

    Smarkets are offering 8-1 that the aircraft carriers will be turned into social housing.

    http://fxbites.blogspot.com/2010/10/britannia-rules-waves.html

  89. 374
    Bobby Moore says:

    Poor Wayne Rooney- He’s obviously been struggling to survive on a mere £180,000 a week.

  90. 375
    Danny Alexander says:

    Even when getting a good plating, i’ll bet Anna Botting wears that same disgusted expression.
    Fuck it! Hack photographers. Better close the file.

    • 393
      Kill all Fabians says:

      Oh happy days – all those labour non-jobs to go!!!

      just one more thing – ‘er could there be a firm order from Whitehall that from the beginning of January all the government and local government non-jobs being advertised in the Guardian will have to stop? Put ‘em on a government web site?

      It would save ‘the hardworking families’ billions of pounds in tax, fuck up the Guardian and even, perhaps, bring about the end of that stupid creature Polly Toynbee.

      WHERE IS THE DOWNSIDE????

  91. 397
    innit says:

    We need an air force and an army – the latter being needed in the UK to see off assorted lefties, anarchists and moslem nutjob jihadis

    • 435
      Bastard says:

      the police already kill people for free

      and soon the government will have all of our phone calls and internet sites as well

      nice country to live in whilst we die

  92. 402
  93. 422
    Anonymous says:

    We lose the Harriers but the Guards get to keep 3000 Horses – you just know it makes sense!

    • 428
      AsYouWere says:

      Cost of stables for the small number of hoses in the HCR and RHA is minimal and reminds us that we are not yet a vulgar grey country with no history…. I am not the only one who thinks that is worth more than a 40 year old sub-sonic Harrier.

      • 430
        Devil's Dumplings says:

        The Harriers in current service are far from 40 yrs old, twat. They’re the youngest assets in the Air Force fleet.

        But here’s another thought: with Kinloss closing (:-)) and the Sword hanging over Lossiemouth, why not transfer the Air Defence assets at Leuchars to Lossie (where they should have been all the time anyway) and reduce the impact on the Moray economy. What about Leuchars’ economy I hear you say? What about it? The ajoining constituancy is a certain Kirkcaldy – poetic justice, what?

  94. 425
    Marcus Aurelius says:

    how much it reminds me on 1979!
    The
    Marxist arseholes that had fucked he economy were finally turfed out leaving the unfortunate John Nott to massively reduce armed forces expenditure.

    Result Argentine adventurism. Much blood and treasure unneccessarily wasted.

    Not unlike the defence cuts imposed by the “coalition” in the 1930s ecouraging adventurism by Italy and Germany.

    the lesson is “if you keep your guard up you don’t have to fight wars.” or Arma Pacis Fulcra as it says on the cap badge of the best regiment in the British Army.

    I know that Bliar and Bruin have ruined us, but I equally know the price will be paid in the next generation’s spilt blood.

  95. 433
    Enjineer says:

    Hasn’t solved the biggest problem with defence, and one of the main reasons we are top four in terms of world defence spending, but stuggle to be top 10 in terms of deployable force.

    The procurement budget is primarily used to subsidise the UK defence industry and the associated jobs at places like AugustaWestland, Clyde Shipyards and various BAe sites in the interests of maintaining ‘independent strategic capability’ (essentially the ability to build our own stuff and not be beholden to Jonny Foriegner for our kit)

    The vast majority of each big procurement project in the UK is paying people to design a gold plated bit of kit for the UK which ends up with an astronomical unit price as we pay the full* costs of R&D and production.

    Case study T45/Daring class destroyer. About £1billion per boat, not because it costs that much to build but because of the enormous design and integration cost – the unit price would have been less but we halved the number of units to help pay the R&D costs (RN is supposed to have 12 destroyer escorts)

    And the real kicker is the only defence industrial capability we have maintained is cutting steel to build ships (not super high tech) and integrating advanced technology purchased from other countries (in the Daring’s case – the super secret sauce, the missiles come from France & Italy) so we are still dependent on other countries good will for the good bits.

    The way to fix this would be:

    1) Brass (across all services) has to get out of the mentality of designing gold plated super kit from scratch to meet requirements, but looking at the best of breed designs that are available already and seeing which is the closest fit.

    2) If politically neccessary, buy licences to construct winning gear locally.

    3) Maintain a much larger stock of spares/ensure as much knowledge transfer as possible – enough that the kit could be operated for as long as it would take to aquire replacements in the event the original supplier decided to cut us off for any reason.

    To continue with the Type 45 example, Japan and South Korea have been able to license the design of the US Arleigh Burke class destroyers and construct ships locally for about a third to half the cost of the current Type 45 unit cost – so we could have had a ship design that is (arguably) better in some areas (certainly in the multirole sense, Daring is a one trick pony at the moment) than Type 45 at a price that would mean RN could maintain the correct number of destroyer escorts.

    The cost would have been a (small) increased dependency in the US, and less pork in the barrell for the UK defence industry/lobby.

    Similar arguments can be made for other procurement project e.g.

    Eurofighter : How many F15E’s or F18 Super Hornets could we have had years ago for the same money? Is the small improvement in capability Typhoon provides worth the massive cost?

    Lynx Wildcat : AugustaWestland actually have had a licence to build Blackhawks for years – a better chopper for the same or less dosh.

    • 434
      Enjineer says:

      * Not always full in the case of cooperative projects like Eurofighter Typhoon. In theory sharing costs among other allies is a good idea, but the EU style beuracracy has more than made up for it on some projects, like Eurofighter and the Airbus A400.

  96. 442

    Funny isn’t it, they retire the only aircraft capable of defending the UK AND operating from Carriers, the HArrier would be great for UK defence, hiding in woods and forests and could operate from carriers.
    Dont tell me they are of no use in afghanistan.
    What’s the betting that Komrade Kameron will come up with the idea that maybe the EU shoiuld be invited toi operate its aircraft from our carriers.

    But it’s OK, the Carriers are still British, this is not more EU takeover, Look, they have a little British flag on them.

    You must think we are stupid mr Cameron.

  97. 443
    Anonymous says:

    Can u imagine if the Argies threatened the Falklands again and Cameron threatened to send the Carriers down there.

  98. 444
    Anonymous says:

    Wake up to the Globalist’s Agenda

    http://infowars.com

    or if you prefer to listen in

    http://infowars.com/infowars.asx

  99. 445
    Anonymous says:

    When’s Guy Fawkes night, i’m not proposing sedition or violent revolution or anything, I’m just curious.

  100. 446
    Anonymous says:

    I’ve heard that the French are going to be allowed to park on them but, in order to cover costs, there will be parking meters and traffic wardens on the Carriers.



Osborne Gets His Soundbite | Nick Robinson
Moonbat V Chomsky | Charles Crawford
Beecroft is “S**t” | LibDem MP
News of the World Trailed Watson’s Mistaken Mistress | Indy
Shabana Mahmood MP Saves Brum Market | ITV News
Plan a Velvet Divorce for the €uro | Gideon Rachman
Truth About Romney’s Bain “Vampire Capitalism” | Wall Street Journal
Clegg’s Revenge | Nick Wood
Cleaning Out Stables | Biased BBC

Previously Seen


Peter Botting



Norman Tebbit has a humble brag:

“We Maastricht rebels were derided and abused for opposing the single currency by the wise, clever, Guardianista soft centre left establishment from whom we now hear so little on the matter.”



The last Quango in Paris says:

Mr Bryant and Mr Watson managing to make the whole hacking affair look like a farce – the more they moan the less I care about the whole subject! So partisan it beggars belief at all costs. They cannot rise above it ! If I was to call the PM a ‘liar’ I would want to be VERY sure.



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