If you read one thing tonight read Rolling Stone’s McChrystal: The Runaway General, the magazine story that led to the resignation of the general in charge of Afghanistan and may even change the course of that war. The politicians clearly don’t have a clue, blood and treasure is being spilt without hope of a victory. Where is the national interest?
NATO needs to figure out a way to declare victory. Soon.
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Andrew Pierce on Ed Balls…
“Porky Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls sweet-talked guests at a fund-raising dinner by saying if he wasn’t a politician, he would be a chef. That’s not surprising, since he was accused of cooking the Treasury books when he was Gordon Brown’s boot boy.”
Bloody foreigners, coming over here taking all our twitter followers
It seems that the US doesn’t have a whistle-blowers act to protect those who tell the truth
President MChrystal?
£200 Million of British taxpayers money promised to the corrupt Karzai last week.
While the UK get’s VAT rises and cuts.
The corrupt Afghan President Karzai over 300 British troops have died to keep safe as President, who threatened to join the Taliban a not long ago and who’s brother is one of the biggest drug smugglers on the planet.
How many more years must Britain’s political warmongers indulge in this pointless quagmire to placate the Americans ?
There is No End in Sight.
“£200 Million of British taxpayers money promised to the corrupt Karzai last week.
While the UK get’s VAT rises and cuts”
I’m taken £30 million of that for my property portfolio.
Have £200 Million of taxpayers money President Karzai.
And you promise not to steal any or give any to your heroin smuggling brother ? That’s good enough for me so there’s plenty more where that came from.
You can have the thirty million, I wouldn’t mind one of the Toughbooks, nearly everything I have is Panasonic and is so reliable.
Ampers
Their mistake was getting shit faced with a journalist onboard.
Obama should have realised this, given a bollocking and said carry on and kick arse.
As it is Afghanistan is now a lost cause. Which the chinese will be quick to exploit (there’s gold and minerals aplenty in the Stan Hillsd
Proving that he is not a weak and indecisive leader who knows nothing of military affairs, Obama replaces top General on the advice of a rock music magazine.
Thus Western Civilisation dies, not with a bang, but with a whimper.
Rolling Stone didn’t call for his resignation and McChrystal went because he wanted yet more troops and to keep this disaster going long past next year which was when Obama was going to start drawing down troops.
McChrystal seemed a decent guy, but you can’t slag off the Commander in Chief, so he had to go. Besides, it will placate the extreme left of his party, who don’t want an American victory.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
While McChrystal frequently goes up to the front line to encourage the troops, Obama drives around Washington like a pimp in a limo.
Of course Obama doesn’t want victory in Afghanistan, his step grand father was a Mau Mau terrorist and he has never forgiven the British or any white militaryist for rightly kicking seven days of shit out of the little bastard when he was caught.
Obama could teach Brown a thing or two. Did you notice that the US are not having a budget for 2010 as the Democrats have ‘deemed’ his fiscal plans as acceptable and so do not discussing. Like all socialists he has no fiscal plan and he has no military plan.
Just why are we in Afghanistan which is recognised as the most corrupt country in the world. Over 70% of GDP is crime related.
I bet that they have a positive balance of payments!
Whistle blowing doesn’t include cover for publicly slagging off superior officers (the President is Commander in Chief and has the authority to take personal command of any action at any time, as at least two presidents have done). Military officers give up certain free speech rights as a condition of their employ — always have; there’s no other way to run an army. If the general had problems with strategy, tactics or resources (and I am sure he did), he should have raised them directly with the White House. If he did not feel he was able to do the job asked of him, he should have resigned or asked to be relieved of command; otherwise it is a general’s job to keep his mouth shut and do his job. One doesn’t have to disagree with Gen. McChrystal on the merits to recognize his grossly inappropriate comments (in Rolling Stone magazine?!) are grounds for discipline and dismissal. Now, perhaps if the Obama administration had more credibility on military matters and on issues of leadership generally, they would be strong enough to reprimand him and return him to his post. But Barry doesn’t really have a choice here. If he keeps the general on, he looks even weaker than he does now.
But Barry should not receive much sympathy — he had the chance to start drawing down troops last year and chose instead to increase troop levels significantly. Like it or not, this is this White House’s strategy now (and, perhaps, even the White House’s war — even if Barry didn’t choose to go to war, almost all Democratic members of Congress did). If the generals don’t like it, they should raise their problems directly with their Commander in Chief and, if they don’t like his response, they should have the courage of their convictions and resign.
I generally agree but surely an important factor in the McChrystal’s affair is the ever widening gap between what is expected of the politicians and what they actually deliver?
The miltary has by its very nature, to remain anchored to the truth but politicians – more so in recent times – drift from one side to the other as the occasion suits. Politicians tend to be “jacks of all trades and masters of none” (PPE?) and so tied up with achieving they’re own selfish ambitions – power and wealth – that they’ve lost all contact with reality and the people who elect them. So when someone who has the ability to wound them (I certainly can’t: to insignificant) and moral courage to offer criticism he has perforce, to be cast into the outer darkness. And whether in the military or not, protected by whistleblower legislation or not, one surely has a higher duty to speak out when something involving peoples lives is manifesly wrong. Creeping away under the cover of a resignation after whinging a complaint to “The Boss” is in my own perception anyway, a cowards way out. Or is that too old fashioned a view?
Until “democracy” is returned closer to its roots – and Party’s flushed down the toilet – we’re rooted.
The first casualty of war is always the truth.
There hasn’t been a war in the last 200 years that wasn’t fought under false pretences and that includes WW2.
Bearing in mind Germany was completely economically ruined in the 1920 and early 1930′s, you might want to ask yourself, How did the Nazis finance the reconstruction of their military under Hitler………bearing in mind the economy had been ravaged by hyperinflation and economic ruin?
I’ve never read a satisfactory explanation how they did it or who financed it.
The British government and the media would have you believe we have sacrificed 300 lives to fight terrorism and so that Afghani girls can go to school without being raped and murdered by ‘terrists’
Fucking HOKUM!
I suscribe to the George Carlin mantra.
“I never believe ANYTHING I am told by politicians or the media.”
I read that the other day, lots of crap links. I suggest we now adopt the strategy of ‘run away’.
the sooner we get out the better for us and the Afghans who are also dying
Agreed. Karzai introduced a marital rape=good law, which is basically what the Taliban wanted.
Karzai=Taliban=14thC cretins. No person from a civilised country should die in order to keep these mongs from killing one another.
Why not bung the Tribal leaders to do the dirty work. They’ve been doing it for free since ancient times, so a dowry to protect the pipeline’s honour will be like Xmas to them, so to speak. It’ll work out cheaper than mass producing Chinooks.
Good plan.
But keep the nukes in reserve.
Hey Muzzbot. How ya doing? Tell us about Prophet Mo, who had a 9 year old wife.
And also married his former daughter in law I believe. Conveniently the big Mo had a dream in his cave that gave him to understand that this bit of ‘incest’ was actually, wouldn’t you guess, perfectly acceptable.
Mr Cocktober – how dare you insult our Holy Prophet (PBUH) by vilely asserting that his favourite wife was 9 years old! You lie, kuffr!
Aisha was SIX years old when Muhammed (PBUH) married her.
Have you ever heard of ‘instant sunshine’? Twat.
This war is totally lost. Whatever happens even God Petraeus cannot fix it. Obama doesn’t like the truth. It’s a totally unwinnable war – no idea why young men of Britain are happy fighting for “nothing really”
Any idea why Cameron is so happy to suck Obama’s cock and keep feeding our troops into the meatgrinder ?
Heir to Blair, that’s why. Rimming America’s chuff piece will feed whatever avarice you find yourself “blessed” with. The more things change……………….
“Any idea why Cameron is so happy to suck Obama’s cock and keep feeding our troops into the meatgrinder”
Like B-lair he’s thinking of life after politics sucking up to the Americans is all part of the plan. B-lair gets about $500k a speech since leaving office bank balance looking good at £30 million.
So do you this for one minute these fuc*wits worry about 300 lives wasted?
Hope Prez Banana’s next
Obama is a devious shit apparently. He’s done things GWB could only dream of. He’s gone after many more whistle-blowers then GWB ever did & he’s hoping to pass a law that will enable him to shut down the Web …plus he hasn’t closed Guantanamo Bay as promised
Obama is disgrace – putting his puffed up ego ahead of the lives of US & UK troops. He has lost all credibility and should resign
It’s not Obama it’s Barry Soetoro, he never had any credibility to start with.
This will bite him in the “progressive” ass
This piece of hubris by Obama will come back to haunt him.The bAmerican public love their military and McChrystal is a solid gold hero from a line of the same.I hope he runs for President in 2012; then we would see some ass kicked
Hubris? – never helf me back!
Coz I’m a straight kinda guy!
We’re all in this together
Yo! Blair! How’s your ethical foreign policy doing? 100,000 dead and counting?
(and the C@tholic church accepted this k/unt? Chr!st on a bike!)
It’s made me $20m. Cherie and I are very grateful to both wars.
It was only Robin Cook who wanted an ethical foreign policy, Blair wanted a profitable one, and it has been (for him at least).
That’s why he had to be silenced!!
Robin Cook made the mistake of getting on that government helicopter while his wife was refused. Go figure.
WASHINGTON – Pat Tillman, who gave up the glamorous life of a professional football star to join the Army Rangers, was remembered as a role model of courage and patriotism Friday after military officials said he had been killed in action in Afghanistan.
“Pat Tillman was an inspiration on and off the football field, as with all who have made the ultimate sacrifice in the war on terror. His family is in the thoughts and prayers of President and Mrs. Bush,” Taylor Gross, a spokesman for the White House, said in a statement.
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the author of a recent book about courage, said he was “heartbroken” and raised the prospect that “the tragic loss of this extraordinary young man” could be a “heavy blow to our nation’s morale, as it is surely a grievous injury to his loved ones.”
And this is the c’unt who pissed on his family and memory by lying to his family about how he died and co-ordinated a cover up to fool the American people for propaganda
WASHINGTON — The parents of slain U.S. Army Ranger and American football star Pat Tillman said Tuesday they have misgivings that the general who played a role in mischaracterizing their son’s death could be put in charge of military operations in Afghanistan.
In a brief interview with The Associated Press, Pat Tillman Sr. accused Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal of covering up the circumstances of the 2004 slaying.
“I do believe that guy participated in a falsified homicide investigation,” Tillman Sr. said.
Separately, Mary Tillman called it “imperative” that McChrystal’s record be carefully considered before he is confirmed – Fox News
fuckin waste of time , lets get out while we can , lets leave the ragheads to blow eachother up and stop spilling the blood of our young ones .
Most unfairs! We don’t wear rags on our heads! We wear Holy Sheets.
Holy Sheets = rags.
There is not god. There is no prophet. Bacon sarnies are great!
F’kin live with it.
fuck off you raghead
Bacon is the infidel meat! We likes sheeps brains and goats!
you are ed balls and i claim my £5
You eat one and shag the other
Don’t be howwible.
I fuckin hate politics !
It does seem that omaha has put his injured vanity before the best interests of servicemen in Afghanistan (and that includes ours).
mcchrystal was the best chance there was of salvaging something from the unwinnable war in afghanistan.
I hope that the rose coloured spectacles are now going to come off the new government in westminster as they re-appraise what this means for labour’s afghanistan war, which they have inherited, and bring our lads home sooner rather than later.
As for omaha he is looking more like the inept gordon as each day passes. Unlikely I think that he will win a second term!!
Most importantly though why did mcchrystal lampoon omaha and biden in such a public way??! He would have known the consequences. It suggests he knows the war in unwinnable and was personally looking for a quick way out!!!
My response is only this -
Amuricans love to hear me speak -
But not so speak – as act –
And this I do –
I am an actor –
I raise my right arm –
And then my left –
And even as I stand before you –
Acting –
So you will hang on my vacuous words –
And pitiful phrases.
That is all.
Ah, now I don’t have a TV, so I’ve never seen Hussain Obama give a speech, but from what I can gather he’s basically squandered every minute he’s spent in the White House.
Is he even American?
Indonesian.
Indonesia? That’s practically China. How did he end up as President of the United St.. ohhhh fuck.
And as we walk
Into the Future
Together
A Future before us
a past behind us
and when they say
it cant be done
we shall tell them
yes it can
Thank you and goodnight !
you idolize the warmonger cameron who would eat Obama’s shit if he asked and hasn’t lifted a finger to bring our boys home
so perhaps you should shut the fuck up about how pointless this war is if you aren’t prepared to put your money where your mouth is
troops out now
no ifs, no buts, no maybes
no platitudes and prattle and years more of dead troops
now
The real warmongers were bliar and brown – they were the one’s who fabricated lies to get us into the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars, and let’s not forget that 90% of the labour mp’s believed bliars lies and voted to go to war.
Yes so did cameron and UNTIL Hutton’s Inquiry into Dr David Kelly’s death I believed bliar too!
The extent of labour’s treachery and lies against this country, destroying our economy, taking us into needless wars , allowing uncontrolled immigration, destroying a stable social structure by maliciously expanding welfare state dependency, is criminal, treasonous. It has caused endless grief and misery and ruined the lives of countless families.
At the very least bliar, mandy, brown and campbell should have had to face prosecution and life imprisonment for it!!!!
And look at bliar now – earning millions advising the Iraqi Oil companies and personal friend of the gaddafi’s. Tonight he is being feted as the possible CEO successor to the rubbish haywood of BP and gordon, it is said, is angling for the job of head of the IMF!!!!
Labour really know how to feather their own nests don’t they??!!!
has Cameron done any different to the Warmongers Blair and Brown and said he will finally pull the troops out ? no
did Cameron support the Iraq war long after the lies about WMD were exposed ? yes
I don’t give a fuck how much you love Cameron dear, he’s a Warmonger
all your excuses and weasel words won’t change that
he’s in charge now and he could bring them home tomorrow and tell Obama to fuck off
but he won’t
not tomorrow, not next month, not in a year
and this could easily go on for another five years of slaughter
Bless! I appreciate that you want to present bliar and brown as innocent .
Or maybe you are brown. Yes I know you want us to believe it was cameron who took us into the Iraq and then the Afghanistan Wars!! Not liebour at all!
‘Don’t blame us’ – Great philosophy you had – don’t blame us it’s always someone else’s fault!!!
And you want us to believe it’s Cameron who is financially benefitting from those decisions by becoming the advisor to Iraqi oil companies and who helped get megrahi back to libya because he was dying , when was that??! And becoming the best family friend that gaddafi ever had
( according to his son).
Oh Hang on a minute we aren’t talking about cameron are we?? that’s Bliar with all those £multi million benefits isn’t it??!! And isn’t he doing well?!!!!
Soon be topping the ‘World’s Richest’ List won’t he??!!!
mandy will be trotting along there catching him up very soon!!!!
gordon hopes to follow soon after!!
liebour , the party that looks after it’s own, but only the one’s at the top!!!!
Oh dear Sweetie! you’ve been caught lying yet again
what part of “the Warmongers Blair and Brown” was too hard for your cider addled yokel brain to understand ?
Yes I know you want us to believe it was cameron who took us into the Iraq and then the Afghanistan Wars!! Not liebour at all!
‘Don’t blame us’ – Great philosophy you had – don’t blame us it’s always someone else’s fault!!!
It’s a measure of your incredible stupidity that you could actually type that out without even noticing that you just totally contradicted yourself
I’ll let you work out why that’s so hilarious once you’ve sobered up
who’s the PM dear ? who could bring them home tomorrow ?
who is it you won’t dare criticise for keeping our troops in the slaughterhouse but want to pretend can do exactly the same as the Warmongers Blair and Brown before him but somehow can’t get blamed for doing so ?
Cameron is a multi-millionaire who claims benefits and idolises Blair so you should quit before you embarrass yourself much further
Dave’s a Blairite wimp who would eat Obama’s shit if Obama asked him to
and you’re an on message drone who eats Cameron’s shit and tries to tell us all it’s lovely chocolate cake
get some fucking self respect and a mind of your own dear
Piss off McChrystal’s old Alma Mater and that particular division of the US Army could ensure that O’Barmy doesn’t even complete one term. We teach them how kill people at the base of 22nd Regiment in Hereford, take ‘em out to the Brecons and show ‘em how real wars are fought.
Seeing Omaha fuck up daily and looking for a quick way out – yes Nell that thought crossed my mind too when I heard he had been “summoned”.
He should have just told Omaha to produce his military record for inspection along with his original birth certificate and then put his resignation letter on the desk and walked out.
I too hope he runs for Prez next time. Him and Palin – dream ticket??
I supported our troops by ensuring they had all the equipment they needed.
yeah like you aboilshed boom and bust you c unt
Speaking as a brhoon, I am open for anything.
Try me.
And then sign my petition to be reinstated as Leeda of da wuld.
Ah sav’d tha wuld!
I support our troops by keeping them in the meatgrinder for as long as Obama tells me
just nuke it
But get our lot and the Yanks out first.
thats the idea
Guido, here is a new campaign for you.
Since British Pensioners and HM Treasury are going to be deprived revenue because Obama demanded a British Company not pay a dividend then David Cameron needs to have a heart to heart with Barack.
The UK can not afford the ongoing expense in Afghanistan because of loss of revenue from BP.
Time for Obama to decide whats important, back down on BP or we pull out.
Cameron including his cast iron promises won’t do anything has his boss rumpy pumpy head of the EUSSR won’t let him.
Albie, I reckon our cross-channel rulers are the reason we got a VAT increase instead of some worthwhile quango cuts. They want more loot to keep themselves in mind boggling luxury at our expense. Wasn’t the emperor over before the budget to issue a few reminders?
Which you will see on Wavy Davy’s visit to the White House soon.
It involves Dave bending over and pleading with Obama to use more lubricant.
Blair had a fart to fart with his master. Not Bush. The real master of the time, Cheney.
Obama is crazy. MacChrysal was good news for America, no wonder Obama hates him. Obama is anti-American as well as anti-British.
Oh be quiet.
Nurse!
fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap fap
No, Comrade O’Barmy is black and if you’d ever had occasion to live somewhere like Baltimore for a year or two then you’d understand that all US Blacks have a chip on their shoulder the size of our national debt. 50 year olds still remember segregation, white buses, white diners, white theatres, white cinemas. Electing a black President was a huge move forward for the slim, middle class, educated population that occupy the cities and towns around the coast. the centre bit of the US containing all the fat, uneducated, trailer trash were seeing their boys come home in bags and decided to vote for a President who would stop the war. The past 18 months have shown them they were very wrong. This President may be another Kennedy and like Kennedy may not make it to the end of his term
The war in afghan has lessto do with Obama’s. Ego and more to do with keeping the narcotics revenue flowing and the oil pipelines built
Plus keeping Boeing’s order books full.
I never used to be a conspiracy theorist, but..
You don’t really need a complex conspiracy theory.
You ask the military what to do and they’ve got a military solution.
yeeeeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaaa!
Afghanistan has massive mineral wealth, none of which can be extracted by the multinational corporations until the Afghan’s have been “passified”. That is the sole reason for this disasterous adventure, nothing else. Our troops are dying for multinational corporations greed, Bliar, Brown and now Cameron, are sending our soldiers to die, so some billionaires can get richer. BRING THEM HOME NOW!
Afghans
pacified
disastrous
corporations’
Oherwise not bad. See me after school.
Otherwise
what a twat
Nice idea that the budget moved the Gilt market. But the US Treasuries market also moved back to former lows at the same time. More likely that falling share prices, and gold price is shifting cash into government debt, in anticipation of a five or ten year deflation.
That cheap Cameron arse-hole was saying just the other day that UK troops had to remain in Afghanistan to protect the UK from terrorist attacks (ridiculous lie).
I wish the cheap shit Cameron had met McChrystal, and judgement had been orated.
I bet McChrystal would have said Cameron is a filthy sub-human c-unt, sending British troops to their deaths and slaughtering tens of thousands of Afghans for £kickbacks from the arms manufacturers.
Cameron is a dirty evil war criminal with blood on his hands, just like Blair. He will burn in Hell.
dont sit on the fence lad
Er i could come back with a witty riposte but narr so shut the fuck up tosser . military fact you never turn your back on a enemy you are engaged with you kill them all first then leave ! get it ? even dogs do but you? no ! dick !.
said the keyboard warrior
so get the fuck out there and start killing them retard or shut the fuck up
there’s only about 30 million afghans so a brave keyboard war hero like you should have the job done in no time
“mcchrystal was the best chance there was of salvaging something from the unwinnable war in afghanistan.”
The war in Afghanistan isn’t unwinnable. At some point, America will realise it has to nuke it.
Sept 12th 2001 – Kaboom! That would have been my solution. End of story.
It will happen. Just a little bit late. The world will move on.
It’s either/or.
Nuke the medieval muzzy mongs, or get the fuck out.
How about get the f*ck out and then Nuke the medieval mongs?
The best of both worlds. After a few beers, I have the solution to everything.
Does that include Pakistan…?
That should be, of course, P***stan.
I just read the Rolling Stone article.
….He’s in France to sell his new war strategy to our NATO allies – to keep up the fiction, in essence, that we actually have allies. Since McChrystal took over a year ago, the Afghan war has become the exclusive property of the United States. Opposition to the war has already toppled the Dutch government, forced the resignation of Germany’s president and sparked both Canada and the Netherlands to announce the withdrawal of their 4,500 troops. McChrystal is in Paris to keep the French, who have lost more than 40 soldiers in Afghanistan, from going all wobbly on him. …
See Guido, we’re not even there. I knew it was something the papers made up.
Bollocks have a giggle
and no guido it aint porn
I love the smell of an unwinnable war emanating from the White House.
*sniff* *sniff* what’s that smell coming from Dave?
The worrying thing about US Generals is that they’re all straight out of Dr Strangelove.
They really think they can “cure” the “undemocratic ills” resulting from 1400 years of Islam by holding up a bent Chicago politician as the New Mohammed?
These people are all clinically insane by any normal standards. It doesn’t really matter that Obama has replaced McChrystal for reasons more associated with the playground than the battleground, it will end in the same manner as Korea and Vietnam.
How true.
look the muzzies are loons ,you dont worship a adult that raped a 9 year old , there like the fuckin left , victim syndrome
I agree but please try and put some basic punctuation into your posts. It’s like reading someone rape the english language.
it’s satire
and pretty fucking funny
gordon spent endless hours trying to convince us that the war in afghanistan was necessary to keep terrorists from our own streets.
Rather more eloquently,and certainly with more respect for our troops fighting out there, cameron has taken up the same mantra.
We all know that it is not true and that the terrorists we are at risk from are largely homegrown.
One day perhaps someone will be able to explain why the labour party became the lying, warmongering machine that took us into Iraq and then Afghanistan on false premises.
But for now it’s time to get our lads home sooner rather than later!!
the terrorist came from leeds not afghanistn , if you worried about 9/11 then that the usa fault not ours (oh they came from saudi arabia )
Yes, but they knew where Iraq was on the map, and you can’t be too careful these days.
bollocks ,its either right or wrong ,it was a sticth up
which is more than fucking Bush did
I like bush.
Of the fucking variety, not the chimpy-president-man variety.
Blair was more eloquent than Bush (not hard, so is a 3 year old) but he’s still as warmongering scumbag and so is Brown and so is Cameron
And we supported Blair all the way.
And we supported Blair all the way.
Tony made me human rights envoy to Iraq in return for touring the TV studios to trumpet the invasion. I did a smashing job as envoy, don’t you think?
Tony made me who I am today and now I tour the TV studios to trumpet the Afghan quagmire. I do a smashing job as his mini-me, don’t you think?
Never go to war with people
Who’s hobby is fighting.
Who you can’t identify as an enemy.
Who do not fear death because they think it will help them get their leg over.
Er, that’s all
And especially not the Afghans who are renowned in the world for being the toughest, most warmongering, nation of all time.
Let’s not forget that the afghans, the most backward, medieval, nation on earth beat back and defeated 100′s of thousands of russian troops!!!! And that was after we had already lost TWO afghan wars to them during the late 19th and early 20th centuries!!!!
That should have told us something shouldn’t it?!!!!
It should tell us Cameron should grow a pair of fucking balls for once and bring our boys home since we’ve had ten years of this pointless carnage.
Agree. Perhaps now we have had this mccrystal scandal the coalition government will take the view that we need to get our lads and lasses home sooner rather than later.
America is losing a war that we shouldn’t. in any case, be fighting!!
We need to accept that!!
The most backward nation onEarth; certainly. A nation with an emabrrassment of riches when it comes to natual rescourses. That’s why we’re there.
Absolutely correct, we are there so multinational corporations and their billionaire owners can get even richer should our military prevail. Unfortunately, none have ever studied a history book about the region or recognised just how unwinnable this conflict is.
Short of killing 20-30 million of the Afghan’s, there is no way they will stop fighting, they have done it for centuries, either against rival tribes, or uniting in temporary aliances against foreign invaders.
The whole epiosode is a disgusting charade, built by Bush, Bliar and Brown on lies and deciet and carried on by Cameron and Obama, because their masters have told them to.
When the money talks….
Now then, Titbrain, you are sacked!
“Afghanistan is not in our vital interest – there’s nothing for us there.”
as someone wise once said “WAR what is it good for ? abouslouty nothing “
It made me and Cherie very rich.
And me
Indeed it has.!!!!
t.bliar adviser to Iraqi Oil Companies and personal friend of the gaddafi family and soon to be CEO of BP (if not him then mandy)!
gordon soon to be head of the IMF or some other internaqtional organisation – his people are cavassing and hawking his credentials madly in the hopu of finding him something lucrative very soon!!!! (If only to stop him throwing nopkias at them!)
Don’t these liebour people do well for themselves?!!!!
McChrystal should cheer himself up by…
…eating some Rice an’ Pea!
There are quite good strategic reasons for not abandoning Afghanistan. Recent survey work by geologists show that it has probably substantial reserves of several minerals, some of them rare (including gold), and reserves of oil. If the West pulls its troops out now, Afghanistan will probably not be stable enough to ensure it’s own security, and may descend into Taliban-fuelled tribal wars, making it effectively a no-go area for decades.
If Afghanistan is to become stable enough to develop it’s resources, and thus it’s wealth, the West has to stick with it long enough for stable, secure government to take root across the whole country. McChrystal had spent two years earning the confidence of the Afghan government, and learning the diplomatic ways to get business done within that culture. He earned the respect of his men, the Afghan politicians and world leaders.
Now, for the sake of some silly remarks, Obama has thrown all that out. Obama should have given McChrystal a public bollocking, and sent him back to Afghanistan to get on with the work he was doing. Now, someone else has to spend a year or more rebuilding the personal relationships in that most difficult environment.
Obama is a fool. He has just set back resolution of the Afghan problem by a year or more over what is nothing more than a family tiff. A bigger man – a real statesman – would have shrugged this off for the greater good.
Agree. omaha is a fool.
He has just thrown away the one chance that there was to salvage something worthwhile from this worthless war.
Another two more years Eng??!! And how many more of our troops killed????
No!! It must end soon!
I think omaha with his stupid decision tonight has marked a turning point in the war and that it must now come to an end!
“Recent survey work by geologists show that it has probably substantial reserves of several minerals, some of them rare (including gold), and reserves of oil.”
Is over-hyped bollocks spread by those struggling to find any excuse to continue this bloodbath to the same fools who believed that there had been a huge Oil find in Vietnam when public opinion for that was at an all time low.
Is it in the world’s best interests for Afghanistan to slip back into the semi-stone age no-go area that it was before 9/11, a training ground for radicals and terrorists and a giant farm for the world’s illegal heroin; or is it in the world’s best interests that Afghanistan develops a stable, outward-looking government capable of developing the country’s wealth and stability?
If the latter, how does pulling out now benefit the longer aim of world peace and stability?
“a training ground for radicals and terrorists and a giant farm for the world’s illegal heroin”
which is what it is right now
“a stable, outward-looking government capable of developing the country’s wealth and stability?”
not in 10 years not in 20 not in our lifetimes
Karzia is the corrupt Mayor of Kabul and what nominal government exists outside of there is even more corrupt and loathed by the citizens as they are just another band of roaming robbing militias with guns
the only difference between them and the ubiquitous warlords is the uniform
there will be no stability and even if we were stupid enough to stay for another 5 years a yearly cat and mouse game with the Taliban achieves nothing but more dead troops and further radicalisation of a population of 28 million
we’ve already had 10 years of this futility so the penny will drop eventually
there is no military solution to a political problem
Karzai is a crook, his brother the top drug lord, there is no meaningful democracy and all laws are based on Sharia Law, which means the country, as it stands, is still a backward, tribal hell hole, with no chance at all of meaningful progress.
The Allies pay the Taliban millions not to attack us, which they duly take and then attack our troops anyway and the pot of gold worth at least a trillion dollars, which our soldiers are dying for, will go to a handful of corporations and their billionaire owners.
Our soldiers meanwhile, who Bliar, Brown and now Cameron piously tell us, they will “never forget” will probably end up with a hundred grand memorial at Wootten Bassett, a tiny pension and a lifetime of psychological disorders, for their efforts to “free Afghanistan” and most ludicrous of all, “prevent terror attacks” on our streets.
The whole sick misadventure is shrouded with double speak, lies and driven by corporate greed. But hey, none have to face the IED’s, gunfire or having to tell someone their son or daughter is dead, in a multi national corporations boardroom.
That job is for the “little people” the grunts, the tools used by the dishonest politicians, to justify their cynical capitulation, to big money and a despotic ruling elite.
No one travels halfway across the world and blows themselves up because another nation is “free”. They do it because we invade their territory and they share a pan-arab/muslim nationalist sentiment. Don’t knock the hornets nest and you won’t get stung.
We hadn’t knocked the hornet’s nest before 9/11, but we got stung anyway.
Afghanistan isn’t the only source of extreme radicalism, but one of the conditions under which it can flourish is political instability. Ergo, if those countries suffering instability can be helped to stability, the radicalism threat diminishes. As we’ve discovered, doing it isn’t easy, which is why the petulant dismissal of McChrystal, a man making progress despite the difficulties, is unfortunate; a bad mistake by Obama.
McChrystal’s boss has taken over but frankly Lincoln or Churchill couldn’t make progress in the slow moving train wreck that is Afghanistan
it’s an unwinnable quagmire and no amount of bluster will change that
Seems people are forgetting what started this and the fact we were targetted at the same time.
I favour the Ripley Gambit withdraw and nuke the Tribal areas.
Best comment right there. Agree 100%, and would add that it isn’t just about Afghanistan. If the ‘taliban’ are able to destabilize Afghanistan after we leave, Pakistan will be their next Target, and that could be a real tinderbox.
Obama is a fool. McCrystal is one of the few spam generals who gets COIN and he has a good relationship with Kaze. Afghan has been an unrelenting fuck up from the moment the taliban were deposed. Stan was the best chance of getting from where we are (shite creek) to something resembling an acceptable solution.
If Stan could forgive and eventually promote the ranger who shot him in the chest on a live fire ex, Obama could have sucked this up for the good of the mission.
And it’s not an uncommon view in military circles that the political aspect of this ‘war’ has been an unrelenting fuck up due to inadequate civilian political leadership. We can’t achieve the objective if we don’t know what it is/it changes every year/it’s fundamentally impossible.
Paxo taking Ed Balls apart on Newsnight now. It is so easy, Paxo looks still asleep.
o/t Newsnight now covering the benefit culture with Ed Balls (sic), family with 5 kids in the North East shown who are unemployed and pulling in £686 a week on benefits. They spent £2k on Xmas presents for the kids.
Ed says he’s “proud” of NL’s welfare system.
WTF!?
Balls is never off the telly at the moment.
Have you forgot there’s an election in progress!
Looking for a new job presenting Play School ? About his level i would say and he has been CRB checked,I assume ?
This family get an extra £50 plus a week as one of their children has a cleft palate.(Thought that could be cured with an op).To put that into context that £50 is HALF a weekly basic British state pension which OAPs would have to contribute for 39 years female/45 years male to get.50 f….g pounds a week for a child.It’s an absolute disgrace.How can a cleft palate be much of a disability? These people expect all this as if they are entitled to it.As for their ‘savings’ of £2000 for Christmas this is an absolute disgrace when OAPs are living in poverty..In the same interview was another woman who also has five children by two different men.Why do the uneducated have so many children?I suppose it is because they can and expect other people to support them.Paxo was very easy on Balls about the fact that people get more money unemployed than if they worked but he just didn’t push it enough,he didn’t even break into sweat.He could but he didn’t because basically Paxo is the official voice of the Labour Party.Balls his usual gobby arrogant self.The word poverty is bandied about as if these people really are poor.I’ll tell you what’s poor..three quarters of the world is poor.Nobody in the UK who has children need be poor unless they are spending all their benefit money on fags,booze and drugs.The group I really feel sorry for are the low paid single people.They don’t stand a chance.
Did you note the shot of the garden.
Bloody mess. half knackered paddling pools and scattered paddling pools. Sums something up.
Have just watched, and my blood pressure has gone critical. The Testicular One wasn’t there to discuss welfare reform or anything like it – it was never anything more than a thinly-disguised budget-bashing session, and Newsnight went along with it. Paxo is now well past his sell-by date. For pity’s sake, isn’t there anyone in our population of 60 million who can conduct a rigorous interview any more?
Gordon Brown Holds Talks With General McChrystal
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/rVPrOzbxfB-/Gordon+Brown+Holds+Talks+General+McChrystal/nZe3g9sXliv/Gordon+Brown
Obama has turned out to be more of a macho redneck then GWB. Not a week goes by without Obama being ‘furious’ about something. Clearly he has not got the respect of the American people, nor his political colleagues. He is, it seems, no more than all piss and wind. He will be a one-term president.
Bush got two terms despite being the biggest redneck retard on the planet
You obviously haven’t met many redneck retards!
Bush, like Obama, was merely doing as he was told. Do you imagine he got where he did through his ability, or great skills as an orator? Bush became President, as did Obama, because the people who bankrolled him, got the promises they wanted.
Given all the hype surrounding him at the time of his election, it was most unlikely that he could have lived up to expectations. However, he seems to have been even more disappointing than I suspected he would be. Sadly, I suspect that things can only get worse.
How dare you.
O is the furthest thing from a macho redneck. He is a metrosexual girly man who throws hissy fits when criticized or thwarted. He does not make reckless decisions – he makes no decisions.
He sacked McCrystal.
I thought he resigned? If he lived up to his rep. he’d ‘av told O in their private ‘discussion’ that he could stick his job up his double choc ass ‘ole and fuck off.
Ultimatum, either a public apology or resignation. McCrystal took option b.
@ archer karcher: mebbe so but that doen’t preclude said statement. My point is, like history these sorts of episodes generally tend to written up by the ‘victor’ and then dutifully parrotted my the media. McCrystal has officially been a ‘non-person’ for several days now and we’ll be lucky to hear his, probably more truthful, side of the story.
Son of a pal of mine has worked with McChrystal in Afghanistan and reckons he is awesome and widely regarded as so by the troops on the ground. Replacing the guy is not a smart move by Obama if he genuinely wants to instill team spirit into NATO troops and this could be the first step into retreat. Karzai must be s***ing himself just now if this is what his friends do !
I personally like Obama. But the way things are going, he’s likely to be a one-term president. More’s the pity. A total fruitloop like Sarah “Earth is 6000 years old” Palin may win in 2012.
A good boss does not lose his rag and sack his best workers.
In recent times Hussein Obama has lost his temper manj times and struts around like a cock kicking arse.
The reality is that bp is the best man to stop the Gulf oil spill and McChrystal is the best man to sort out Stan. Obama has stuffed both of his best options.
What a twat
Cameron borrows can-do-better attitude from ‘brilliant Barack’
The man who could be America’s first black president won ringing praise yesterday from the man who could be Britain’s 19th old Etonian prime minister.
David Cameron said he hugely admired Barack Obama, the front-running contender for the Democrat nomination, and vowed to bring some of the same spirit to the British political debate.
“I’m enjoying watching Barack Obama. I think he’s a brilliant speaker, I think his optimism and sense of hope for the future is inspiring a lot of people. It’s great to see. Too often [politics] gets down to hope and fear and I think it’s wonderful when hope wins. I’m enjoying watching him, I must say. I think he’s compelling,” Cameron told Radio 5 Live’s Breakfast programme.
“What people like is the sense that Obama generates, that we don’t have to be like this, we can do better… I think we need that same sense of possibility here.”
“He is a very easy person to talk with, to exchange views with. He’s an incredibly impressive politician and leader but he’s also an extremely personable human being and someone it’s easy to get on with and to strike up a relationship with.
“It’s my second meeting and it’s always enjoyable to meet and discuss with him and also to meet his wife and to meet his very impressive team
What has Obama ever been the boss of? I understand he has no business experience or experience of running anything – not even a whelk stall. He’s just a Chicago activist.
He worked as a shyster lawyer for Acorn, forcing lenders to give mortgages to people who could never pay them back, or face multi million dollar lawsuits under the Community Re-investment Act.
The whole thing worked so well it caused the collapse of the home loans industry in the USA, within a decade. Obama has lots of bad form, his problem is, he is incapable from learning from mistakes, so he just repeats them.
Half of all subprime loans were made by institutions that are not subject to “Political pressure” like the CRA. And another substantial share of subprime loans were made by subsidiaries of banks that do not fully come under CRA. The number of riskier loans banks were forced to accept by CRA were not enough to be a problem by themselves.
If the sub prime loans were such bad news for the Banks and others then they wouldn’t have kept issuing them again and again and again. They were making the Banks and those who used them in pig in a poke financial “products” (CLO’s & CDS’s) unbelievable amounts of cash in the boom times and the fact that they were a huge gamble mattered little when the Gravy Train rolled into town.
Lehman Brothers paid $8.7 BILLION in staff bonuses in 2006.
Doesn’t sound to me like they were stumbling under the weight of unprofitable risky loans “forced” on them by Politicians.
The revisionists say the problem wasn’t too little regulation; but too much, via CRA. The law was enacted in response to both intentional redlining and structural barriers to credit for low-income communities. CRA applies only to banks and thrifts that are federally insured; it’s conceived as a quid pro quo for that privilege. This means the law doesn’t apply to independent mortgage companies (or payday lenders, check-cashers, etc.)
The law imposes on the covered depositories an affirmative duty to lend throughout the areas from which they take deposits, including poor neighborhoods. The law has teeth… Studies … have shown that CRA increased lending and homeownership in poor communities without undermining banks’ profitability.
But CRA has always had critics… Rhetoric aside, the argument turns on a simple question: In the current mortgage meltdown, did lenders approve bad loans to comply with CRA, or to make money?
The evidence strongly suggests the latter. First, consider timing. CRA was enacted in 1977. The sub-prime lending at the heart of the current crisis exploded a full quarter century later. … In late 2004, the Bush administration announced plans to sharply weaken CRA regulations… Yet sub-prime lending continued, and even intensified — at the very time … the law had weakened.
Second, it is hard to blame CRA for the mortgage meltdown when CRA doesn’t even apply to most of the loans that are behind it. … Perhaps one in four sub-prime loans were made by the institutions fully governed by CRA.
Most important, the lenders subject to CRA have engaged in less, not more, of the most dangerous lending. Janet Yellen, president of the San Francisco Federal Reserve, offers the killer statistic: Independent mortgage companies, which are not covered by CRA, made high-priced loans at more than twice the rate of the banks and thrifts. With this in mind, Yellen specifically rejects the “tendency to conflate the current problems in the sub-prime market with CRA-motivated lending.” …
Yellen is hardly alone… One of the only regulators who long ago saw the current crisis coming was the late Ned Gramlich… But Gramlich praised CRA…
It’s telling that, amid all the recent recriminations, even lenders have not fingered CRA. That’s because CRA didn’t bring about the reckless lending at the heart of the crisis. Just as sub-prime lending was exploding, CRA was losing force… And the worst offenders, the independent mortgage companies, were never subject to CRA — or any federal regulator. Law didn’t make them lend. The profit motive did.
80% of loans were fully or largely outside CRA jurisdiction
Gee. So many Britons were so positive about Obama in 2008. He was going to solve everything — the anti-Bush. Americans who pointed out the obvious, that there strong warning signs that O was a malignant narcissist, that O was a greenhorn who had never so much as managed a hotdog stand, that O consorted for decades with people who hate the West in general and America in particular, were scolded condescendingly. A bunch of gap-toothed hillbilly racists we were.
Remember?
No. Of course you don’t. It’s just too God damned embarassing. But you know who you are.
Ironically, and in contrast to his supporters, people like me who opposed him are the ones who did not care what he looked like
He put your country, previously our ally, on notice on day one when he sent back the bust of Churchill. He didn’t just move it out of the Oval Office. No. He returned it. That’s known as sending a message. And it was all downhill from there.
At least you didn’t have the opportunity to vote for him. That would be a horrible thing to have on your conscience.
he’s being hammered for his continuing support of a colossally stupid war that Bush started and was solidly behind as was McCain
as were all the recent morons in 10 Downing Street, then and now
He’s continuing the war, and playing to lose. He’s also doing a whole bunch of other corrupt statist bullshit that McCain, weak and slightly mutated candidate though he was, would not have done.
O just extracted a $20 billion dollars slush fund from BP (i.e. from British pensioners), with no due process, no transparency and no accountability for how it’s to be spent. The money will largely not be used to remediate nor compensate for the oil leak. Instead it will be distributed by Democrats as they see fit, used to buy votes and fund “community organizing” concerns. One bonehead congressman (Stupak) actually said out loud that it should be used to pay for the new Healthcare bill.
It’s the Chicago Way. Enjoy.
yeah, and you can ‘win’ a fucking quagmire without end how exactly ?
maybe he sould declare Mission Accomplished in fancy dress on an aircraft carrier to satisfy the chickenhawks
that’s bound to work
regardless, his biggest mistake was not getting the troops out when he got in so he’s well and truly stuck with the shitpile and he owns it now
but it’s a shitpile with Bush’s name all over it too
Obama has given Petraeus a lever over him…all the Gen has to do or say is to take up exactly where McChrystal finished..fire one “insurbordinate” General is understandable but fire two and its not the General’s who are under question its President Obama who has already pissed off big time the only true ally the USA has had through the two debacles of Iraq and Afghanistan…the UK. A Good way to win a war.Have no fucking strategy. Sack the only man who has any chance of at least salvaging your arse and pissing off your main ally…Good Call..Mr President !!!!
Apropos the UK being in favour of Obama..it wasn’t the public it was the media notably the BBC who had a love-fest with the guy
and McChrystal’s boss Patraeus would also go running to Rolling Stone magazine, why exactly ?
so he can go down in history as one of the dumbest Generals in history ?
to go running to a magazine journalist and end up fired is dumb but not jawdroppingly so
for someone to do the exact same thing after his junior predecessor has done it would be seen as mindbogglingly stupid
sorry to break it to you but the so called ‘strategy’ hasn’t changed in years
every year the Taliban hits and runs and the coalition attacks back
every year they hope the Taliban will negotiate but every year they get more hardline and entrenched
while politically every year the US and UK hope the corrupt Karzai regime will magicaly turn into a beacon of democracy and a functioning state instead of a quasi-gangster narco-state with a police force and army little if any better than the warlords who hold sway over almost all of the country
as for Obama pissing off the Ally, well I’d watch the News today and see if Cameron suddenly starts attacking Obama
my guess is Cameron will do that when hell freezes over but I’d love to be proved wrong as Cameron acting pissed off with Obama would be priceless
I’m an insurgent and so is Corporal Jones.
[IMG]http://www.abcgallery.com/P/poussin/poussin27.JPG[IMG]
STREWTH! A DRONGO SHIELA AS PM!
Wanna beer mate? I feel like getting pissed.
Hey you two twats – you’ve nicked my under(over?)cover name!
She’s ginger and Welsh – also, I have doubts about the sheila bit. Apart from that she’s a big improvement on His Royal Highness Rudd.
I’m going to have a good old sniff of her chair.
Oh, yes.
You can’t just leave that one hanging!!
Tell us more of this sniffy Boswell and his strange chair sniffing proclivities.
For squirm value:
For comedy value:
Google for plenty more!
Looks like that Nobel peace prize given BEFORE he even became president was quite an error.
National interest?
To the political classes there is national interest only political interest and Obama is the perfect example of a selfish bigoted politician on the make, he reasons whats good for him must be good for everyone.
He will use and abuse those around him and tread on whoever gets in his way, McChrystal was the best man for the worst job in the world but all Obama thought about was himself when he sacked him, f*ck the troops who gives a shit about them and giving them the leadership they need?
The yanks are starting to realise what a piece of work they put in the whitehouse and they aint gonna be voting him back in again.
Reality check.
The Lib/Lab/Con fifth column set out to destabilise this country – and didn’t they do well!
Hands up everyone who still believes a word that that filth utter about Afghanistan or anything else.
A showdown between the Manchurian candidate and Rambo?
Great box office.
Oh FFS now Obama was born in China and programmed by evil CommieNazi’s….
You quite sure he isn’t a shapeshifting Alien Lizard person as well?
That would be stranger than fiction – not that the Prez’s own history is not.
The fictional Manchurian Candidate (in the 1962 version to which you allude) was a Commie sleeper. Nevertheless, he was a natural born American, as required by the constitution for the holder of the office. So was his stepson, the brainwashed dupe.
Omaha’s presentation of his original birth certificate would, at least, prove whether or not his claim to the throne is as nominally above-board as that of the fictional would-be usurper.
O/T
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=1&storycode=45609&c=1
Former MP sues Sunday Telegraph over expenses story
Former tells it all.
Alll this sacking gives me the Big Horn
My wife came home and a few lights were on in the house, she groaned it was like Blackpool Illuminations. I started turning the lights off when my wife said thats not what she had meant.
There was a bloke selling lighters in the hall, the house looked like shit and there was junkies in the lounge shooting up.
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Politicians do this all the time, it’s a distressing by-product of their unshakeable belief that anyone who disagrees with them needs a brain transplant.
Drop the bomb. Exterminate them all.
I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor.
That’s my dream; that’s my nightmare
They lie and we have to be merciful for those who lie, for those nabobs.
I hate them. I do hate them.
What even P***stan ?
whats the point in putting more troops and money into the mess US
Congratulations to Julia Gillard on becoming the first female Prime Minister of Australia. Julia, in breaking barriers and being an inspiration to all womankind upon assuming the Prime Ministership, there is one very important thing you need to remember…
Dinner doesn’t cook itself.
Remember…tHE uK AND US did start this mess in Afghanistan, but they dont have a hope in hell of clearing it up SO get out now – tHE ” al qaeda’ franchise have opened their main branch in Pakistan (where the shit is hitting the fan) anyway, AND ‘Taliban’ in Afghanistan consist of people who just want us to f**ck off out of out of their country…. which we should since the longer civilians continue to be killed, the more potent resistance ideology becomes……
GET OVER IT BARACK ‘PEACE PRIZE ‘ OBAMA……..AND GET OUT
We scored a goal, we scored a goal, we scored a goal!
Na na na na na na!
England have hired a new coach
it will be waiting on the tarmac at Heathrow on monday
oh dear! Nick’s floundering badly
McChrystal is privileged he can resign from a crock of crap his government dishes up, amusingly the same crock the UK government is gladly slurping down.
Funny how the War is affordable but Pensions aren’t
Funny how the poor are paying for bankers mistakes (how many Quango’s axed in the Budget? None! There are over 1200 quangos in the UK, and they cost around £64 billion a year to run.
Laugh that one off!
The Mirror:
“Multi-millionaire Mr Cameron bowed to pressure to follow Gordon Brown’s example and refuse to accept the taxpayerfunded retirement scheme, worth half the PM’s salary every year.”
So that is why Gordon is not retiring, in order to save the taxpayer money……
I logged on to Alzheimers re-united last night….
Never recognised a fucking soul.
Barry O’Bama is at this time about as popular as a “turd in a swimming pool”
and this is just about one of his worst fuck ups to date
all the big talk and the “yes we can’s”still has his ratings very low
If he can’t take the heat etc
you have to wonder where the 21 billion which was given to the Karzi
when he was first elected has gone ? and all the millions that they have given him since come to think of it all the middle east conflicts seem to be well funded
the place is a waste of time and lives and with Barry as chief of staff things can only get worse !
Obama’s highest disapproval rating = 48%
Bush’s highest disapproval rating = 71%
Have the septics cottoned on to the “Hope” and “Change” bullshit yet?
It took an illegal war for the Great British unwashed to realise that Teflon Tony was more “bluster and bullshit” than “hope and change”
Dont slag off Barry O’Bama your comment will be removed
The real story is the return of Petraeus. He’s a winner. He fixed Iraq and now will sort Afghanistan. Obama is nervous of his success, but now has no choice but to turn to him.
http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2010/06/petraeus-will-sort-afghanistan.html
What!!! Iraq is fixed – LOL.
Countries get the governments they deserve.
I don’t see why we can’t declare victory and meanwhile–behind the scenes–put MI6 to work pulling strings such that theocracy is kept out of power and liberal social policies are gradually enacted.
The war, as it currently is, does no-one but contractors and equipment manufacturers any good whatsoever. If we are to spend copious amounts of money on our military, that money would be better spent maintaining and improving our nuclear deterrent and gaining air superiority.
Leading lambs to slaughter, all the while watching foxes amass and thrive, does not a good army of sheep make.
observational occurred values
power maximum beginning
or we could simply boycott all the sandy places – not recognize their passports, not have air links, not trade with them just leave them for 500 yeras to grow up