It was a surprisingly low-energy debate between Toby Young and Ian Dunt on Newsnight last night as they went up against each other to bash heads on the efficacy and morality of national lockdowns. During the segment Toby held his hands up and confessed he’d “got that wrong” about the virus fizzling out in June, he doubled down on his argument that lockdowns destroy the economy and argued that lockdowns increased deaths in the developing world. Both men asked each other how they sleep at night, Guido imagines after this fairly relaxed debate the answer’s pretty well…

As usual depending which side you are on colours your view of who did better. Guido is a swing voter on lockdowns and masks, it seems that masks only hinder transmission in that they stop you coughing the virus onto someone else, they don’t really protect the wearer that much. Lockdowns clearly wreck the economy and will have terrible repercussions for children’s education, general mental health and wellbeing. On the other hand, without an effective track and trace system it is impossible for politicians to avoid restrictions because no track and trace system could realistically cope with 2% of the population being infected. Shielding the vulnerable is just not possible now. Guido has no time for the anti-mask fundamentalists, who think the reciprocal courtesy of protecting others (to a debatable degree) by wearing masks, is the first step on the path to a totalitarian state.

Watch the interview in full: