August 25th, 2014

Final Debate Poll Verdict: Salmond Wins


277 Comments

  1. 1

    Bye Scotland! On other matters:

    Jeremy Bentham (pronounced Bent-ham), the acknowledged father of utilitarianism, created the idea of the Panopticon, a prison where every inmate could be observed by a single warder who would himself be unobserved by his prisoners. Wikipedia over-diminishes Bentham’s contribution and unjustly gives sole credit to Michel Foucault for the development of Panopticism.

    Bentham had described his imaginary prison as “a new mode of obtaining power of mind over mind, in a quantity hitherto without example”. Against him must be set the charge that he regarded the idea as a positive advance.

    Foucault, by comparison, saw it as a threat to society.

    Britain and the United States have moved steadily to a position where surveillance of its citizens has come to resemble the Benthamite concept closer than the originator did.

    As a final thought, there was an album released in 2004 called Panopticon. The band’s name?


    ISIS

    
    

    Vote UKIP :-)

    Like

  2. 2

    But how much will it cost the South East ????

    Like

    • 8
      koba says:

      Your shirt, your pension and savings

      Like

      • 18

        Ah thats OK as long as my ‘ring’ is unmolested!

        Like

      • 24
        Anonymous says:

        Hang on…

        This is an analysis of reaction on Twitter.

        Of course, Guido’s wannabe journos (and perhaps Guido himself) think this reflects public opinion.

        How many older Scots, the ones more concerned about security, pensions, currency etc than “freedom” will this monitor? Very, very few, I’d suggest.

        Yet another example of Guido’s self-proclaimed contribution to statistical excellence.

        Like

        • 89
          Cuntry Bumkin says:

          The BBC is also spouting the 71/29 split as fact without explaining where the data comes from.

          No-one asked me my opinion of Scottish Independance, which is:

          I couldn’t give a toss (and even less about the y!ds v Pallies)

          Like

    • 19
      Jock McSubsidy? says:

      The south-east, is that Peebles and Selkirk?

      Like

      • 127
        Village Idiot says:

        ….Does it seem right that 4million people can decide the fate of the United Kingdom, that has a population of 65million?

        Like

        • 132
          Cpl Hicks says:

          No, but that’s democracy for you. The fact that labour still have a core vote despite of what they did to the country tells me that thick people shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

          Like

          • stushie says:

            Look at Labour in action .Their Police Commissioner won’t resign over the Rotherham obscenity of 1400 (!) girls being abused 0n his watch AND his old chums backing him with their silence. More of the same under Milliband???

            Like

        • 209
          John in London says:

          You have highlighted an issue that has not been discussed but should be. As far as I am aware, there has to date been no recognition by the UK’s MSM that people living in England, Wales and Northern Ireland should have an equal say on whether Scotland leaves the Union.

          Like

          • leftwingscum says:

            about a million Scots in the rest of the British Isles can’t vote, and yet about half a million EU and Commonwealth non-Scots living in Scotland can! It’s a Joke!

            When is Aberdeenshire going to have a referendum to break away from shitland?

            Like

          • sporran bollocks says:

            If they want to leave, it’s their decision. On the other hand, if it went to a vote for the rest of the UK on “Should we chuck the scotch out of the union?” I’m sure there would be a massive response in favour

            Like

        • 263
          Anonymous says:

          What a way to twist the argument. We aren’t, we are deciding our own fate. Which is rather the point.

          Like

  3. 3
    broken carbon fibre says:

    Crivens!!!!

    Come on you jocks, vote YES..!

    And fuck off!

    Like

    • 12
      Toxic Labour for Parasites, bring back the workhouses. says:

      Yes and cut my tax when we’ve stopped subsidising Scotland.

      Like

      • 28
        hollande saucily says:

        and london?
        and phoney farming?
        and property speculation?
        and busted state treasuries?

        one problem of fake debates is that they aim to generate emotional response – they conspire successfully to avoid issues of substance

        Like

      • 113
        David Cameron says:

        What does “cut my tax” mean? As leader of the High Tax Party I detest success and punish achievement. Marginal tax rates of over 62%…..I love ‘em….

        Like

    • 14

      Come on you Jocks, head butt any fucker in yer way jimmy.

      Like

    • 76
      paul says:

      Just as well the majority of English people are not arrogant and as idiotic as yourself otherwise The Yes vote would cake walk it.

      I do agree though it is time Scotland stood on it’s own two feet and stopped blaming the Westminister Govt for all our woes.

      Like

    • 229
      Sophocles says:

      We’ll vote no, but when will you Nigels in Londonistan separate so we can build a containment wall like the one around Gaza?

      Like

  4. 5
    Mark Carney's Flying Circus says:

    Shouldn’t these politicians have got together before this debate and agreed their repective positions?

    If two barristers went head to head in court without knowing what they were talking about then a good judge would send them out.

    Like

  5. 6
    Alex Salmonella says:

    We’re doomed !! Doomed, I tell ye. We’re doomed !!

    Like

    • 194
      The Growler says:

      Now than Alex be a good boy and take your sweeties, you do want to get better don’t you?

      Like

  6. 7
    Cor Blimy Pearly King says:

    When the Scots go, can they please take Yorkshire with them!

    Like

    • 21
      Archie says:

      Obviously posted by a Surrey cricket fan.

      Like

    • 160
      Tom Catesby says:

      Good idea, certainly if wee jock votes ‘no’ and the ‘carrot’ of ‘devo max’, which has been dangled before them kicks in. Subsidised devolution, sounds like a good idea to me for England’s far flung regions and start with Yorkshire please.

      Like

    • 201
      The Growler says:

      I am sure all the counties north of Leicestershire would gladly go and Wales stop the sucking of capital from the north and west, I haven’t the foggiest where Ulster wants to go.

      Like

    • 264
      Anonymous says:

      Its entirely possible the north of England might in due course want to move the border some way south, since Londoncentric policies are no more relevant to them than they are to Scotland, which could be one of the things the London and South East crowd are shitting themselves about.

      Like

  7. 9
    ex Tory Voter says:

    The debates are irrelevant. Scotland will stay, despite the number of Scots and English who wish otherwise.

    Like

  8. 11
    Cpl Hicks says:

    We just need Gordon McRuin to get out campaigning a bit more and it will be yes for sure.

    Come on Scotland! Vote yes and be done with us English and all our bennies!

    Like

  9. 13
    Anonymous says:

    Cameron should be brought into this to explain what, if any, devolved powers he has promised.

    All relevant correspondence can be published on the internet for us all to see and judge.

    Like

    • 15
      cheche says:

      Yes , what are these new devolved powers agreed behind the back of the english

      Like

      • 95
        M­a­­q­b­o­­ul says:

        And, more to the point, what will they cost? Just how many layers of government do they need up there? At the moment 25% of them work for the state.

        Like

    • 33
      Anonymous says:

      Try an Foi. I suspect you’re on to something.

      Why else would Darling not spell out in very simple terms how a sterling currency for Scotland without currency union would be detrimental — i.e.; being governed by fiscal and monetary policy “abroad”.

      (The Panama parallel flew right over the heads of that audience).

      He could have used the example of Germany vis a vis Greece in the Eurozone.

      But he stopped short of that.

      Which means he can’t think on his feet, didn’t prepare properly, or that he and Labour are so clueless that they thought he was good enough to be Chancellor. The mind boggles…

      Like

      • 241
        surlyscot says:

        what the shitheads – both of them – fail to spell out is that PRIVATISATION OF EVERYTHING – is an EU DIRECTIVE – but hey, when did ANY shit politician tell the truth.

        Like

    • 176
      Tom Catesby says:

      Devo Max for Yorkshire please, before Cameron (suspiciously jockist name that) gives Mc Salmond all the wee baubies.

      Like

    • 238
      Norma Stitz says:

      The idea that an independent Scotland would save the rest of us money is, sadly a fantasy. Remember how much we shelled out to help Ireland when it collapsed? The Jocks would be demanding money from our feeble politicians hand over fist.

      Like

  10. 16
    MB. says:

    From the bits I saw Salmond was laying to his supporters, talking over the top of Darling so you could not hear his answers and trying to make jokes of everything. The party faithful seemed to be lapping it up.

    Like

    • 53
      inside out says:

      Well he was debating in Glasgow.More bennies there than the rest of Scotland.He appeals to the lowest common denominator,if the result is Yes,there will be massive rush of working, educated Scots south of the border.The unemployable and pensioners will be all thats left.Followed by all profitable business,lets see Alex Salmond sort that lot out.

      Like

      • 59
        CHRIST ON A BIKE! says:

        no change there then!

        Scotland would have to become like Switzerland to survive. Low taxes to encourage business investment and to attract the right type of labour. Set up dodgy banks etc. A total anathama to the lefty twats advocating independence.

        Like

        • 116
          Braveheart says:

          Scotland would do well to be more like Switzerland with its large private manufacturing sector and small public sector. Switzerland is the least deindustrialised of all postindustrial economies and does not rely on a pumped-up public sector or on bailing out failed banks.
          Pity we won’t get any change with Salmond. It’s going to be the same old story of decline.

          Like

  11. 17
    Surrey Shiresman says:

    Excellent!

    We need to get rid of the sponging Scots. Go Salmond, go SNP!

    Like

  12. 20
    idon'tneednodoctor says:

    Slippery Salmond used labour’s tactics – shout over your opponent at all times.

    Like

  13. 22
    Coaching advice to Salmond says:

    Walk forward to underline your sincerity.

    Like

    • 212
      couldabin says:

      And of course, the old chestnut ” the lectern is a barrier”. No, it’s a place to keep your notes!

      Like

    • 249
      Jack Ketch says:

      And open your arms in a welcoming gesture (Tony Blair, Billy Graham, Rev. Jim Jones).

      Like

  14. 23
    koba says:

    Can England have a vote to leave the union with Scotland?

    Like

    • 27
      gildedtumbril says:

      Can England have a vote? You jest, surely?

      Like

      • 32
        koba says:

        No, not at all, why can’t the people who are gouged for tax have a say. It’s about time they started demonstrating, yes sure they have been too busy working to make up for the tax taken from them but, there comes a time when a stand has taken.

        Like

        • 111
          pookie snackumberger says:

          Millions demonstrated against Bliar’s I rack war, did that change anything?

          Do those fcukpigs in the HoP give a toss what we want or think.

          Like

  15. 25
    This is easy says:

    Most of the Oil and Gas installations are in international waters a long way from Scotland. Build a pipeline to Norway and pipe it there. Its not as if the Scots can sue as they’ll be outside the EC with no means of force and a dispute over sovereignty of these field from the off.

    Nop Oil/gas jobs and no Faslane jobs, higher taxes, more unemployment and nothing to eat but haggis. A lovely country. Can we ship all the drug addicts, criminals and Islamists there as well? A sinking ship is a great place to put all of your rotten eggs.

    Like

    • 29
      Scots and Norwegians Together says:

      You’re off your trolley. Norway would never agree to stamp on the rights of another small nation.

      Like

      • 37
        This is easy says:

        The Scots could buy the drilling rights from Westminster, its us that owns them after all. It smacks of a teenager threatening to leave home unaware of the parents praying the day….

        Like

    • 30
      I hate to say this but says:

      For crying out loud, we want them to say YES, not NO, we want Scotland off our backs, so be nice until the they vote on the 15th of next month.

      Like

      • 55
        inside out says:

        18th September 2014 doom day for Salmond.

        Like

      • 186
        Tom Catesby says:

        Wait until you and the rest of us find out the nature and extent of the sneaky deals done behind the taxpayers’ backs to pay for this ‘independence’. You can bet the English will, by the gov’ts willing agreement, be picking up the bill for years.

        Like

    • 35
      Chinese embassy says:

      Love it.

      Pipeline to Norway (or anywhere).

      We’re experts in territorial disputes, especially when it involves foreign seas/oil.

      And we can’t negotiate with the Scots anyway, those accents.

      Like

      • 100
        Shellgame says:

        It’s all Fatcher’s fault! She scotched the planned pipelines to Norway. Didn’t like state owned oil companies, in this case Statoil and Britoil. She destroyed the latter, the former is now a world player. Norwegian wealth fund anyone?

        Liked by 1 person

    • 73
      táxpáyér says:

      Campaign for an independent Shetland Isles.

      Like

      • 84
        John Jones says:

        the orkneys used to be a kingdom and had its own language, and the kingdom of strathclyde. Perhaps kingdom of scots and kingdom of picts? Small minded people always think small – this lot are “borrowers”

        Like

      • 190
        Tom Catesby says:

        And Independence for Yorkshire, you’ll be paying of course.

        Like

    • 101
      Manon_des_Source says:

      If the Shetlands leave Scotland as well taking that oil revenue they are shafted.

      Like

  16. 26
    Enigma says:

    Was Cameron pointing at Salmond in a fish market?

    Like

  17. 31
    Bryan Tomlinson says:

    Labour Darling and Socialist Salmond are orchestrating a YES/YES Campaign on behalf of the EU.

    Like

    • 147
      Thatchers the man says:

      And the tories are rubbing their hands in glee in the background..60 fewer labour MP’s instead of the gerry mandered labour advantage..the right like the maths.

      Like

  18. 34
    Scots and Norwegians Together says:

    I always thought it would be close. So it may prove.

    If the Scots were to leave the Union, it would be a political earthquake and involve much more psycho-cultural damage than (most) people (here) are assuming.

    With Scots part of the union, the fictive narrative of a united nation with a single political culture (paradoxically, given devolution – but devolution is a largely hidden process to the English) can be maintained.

    Without them, the fictive nature of the narrative in our modern society will become evident much more quickly.

    Like

    • 38
      Eh!. says:

      Speeka da engleesh pleeez.

      Like

      • 81
        Scots and Norwegians Together says:

        There are a lot of immigrants in England, most of whom seem to make little effort to integrate. We’re all supposed to be part of one big family. But when the Scots go, doubts will grow on that score. Better?

        Like

    • 43
      Expat Geordie says:

      I’ve always considered myself British first and then English. Then I moved south and found that the further south that you get the more that is reversed. If the Scots had a vote without all of the anti English rhetoric then I suspect that there could be an amicable agreement, regardless of how it ends. However all of the anti English crap from the “Yes” campaign, and the “we’ll give you even more devolution” from the “No” campaign is actually pissing off the English people big style, to the extent that we are actively hostile to the porridge wógs.

      I actually heard one “Yes” campaigner state that if Scotland left the Union they would still get a grant from the UK government.

      I hate to say this, but fuck off, and take your debts and Labour MP’s with you. We don’t want you anymore.

      Like

  19. 36
    Expat Geordie says:

    I drove up to North Wales yesterday to take the girlfriend up to see some old friends. I’d never been before, and despite having a clean driving licence for the last 25+ years was concerned about the local traffic police, who have been referred to as the “Traffic Taleban” (or should that be Taffyban?) on account of them being rather hot on speeding, and my inability to stick to speed limits.

    Anyway, and I wish that I was making this up but it sadly (or shockingly) is very true, as we were driving past Birmingham I was flicking through the local radio stations and I’m taking the piss out of said North Wales police:

    “So if I get pulled pet, what should I say? ‘Salaam Alekum Officer?'” (Cue abuse from the other half as she is getting pissed off at my taking the piss)

    At which point the radio stopped at a local station that was sounding the call to prayer.

    Like

    • 41
      Shooty* says:

      SUBMIT!

      or die. Peacefully.

      Like

    • 42
      Speed is verboton says:

      Remember each border crossing from England to Wales has at least two speed cameras within a mile of each other, each hamlet of one or two houses has a 30 mph zone at least 200yds each side, even in the middle nowhere also take plenty of plastic bags for when you go shopping, paying 5p each time for a new one for “charity” gets monotonous.

      Like

      • 46
        Expat Geordie says:

        I came back today (back at work tomorrow) and left her there. She can come back on the train later this week. I forgot about the bags.

        Oh, whilst I was up there I learned how to say the name of that funny railway station in Wales – Cardiff Central!

        Like

        • 54
          Miss Sogginist says:

          Best leave her there, and hope she never comes back!

          Like

          • Grotty hellhole says:

            My sister stayed in Wrexham the other night. She described is as like Larne, only not as nice. Fuck me, that means it must be on a par with Dunfermline,

            Like

          • I Am Not Spartacus says:

            Wrexham is part of Greater Liverpool, as is Rhyl.

            Like

          • Scots bard says:

            The king sits in Dunfermline town,
            Sounding a snotty whine,
            “O where will I find a reliable motorist
            To drive this new rig o’ mine?”

            Like

      • 251
        The only Country in Europe not to have its own paliament is England says:

        Went into Merthr some ytears ago, there was a cattle grid on the way into the town, I was more shocked to see sheep on the town side of the grid, is this entrapment?

        Like

    • 44
      Jihadi John says:

      Alah u akhbar!

      Like

    • 200
      Tom Catesby says:

      Birmingham would fit in Caithness.

      Like

  20. 40
    This is easy says:

    Salmond should get the Bay City Rollers to play at the polling station – kinda encasulates all thats crap about Jockland

    Like

  21. 45

    Vote UKIP :-D

    Like

  22. 47
    Anonymous says:

    Only about 75% of the oil abd gas belongs to the jocks, yet Salmong keeps acting as if it all belongs to the jocks.

    He keeps saying a currency union is in the interest of the rUK. Well that is clearly a load of shite and none of his business.

    Salmond stated for example that Scotland would continue to use the DVLA but not pay for it.

    Who will control civil aircraft over Scotland for example?

    If Scotland is going to have an air force where will they get their aircraft from, where will their pilots and engineers be trained?

    Why should England allow a foreign country free access via a land border? Got knows what mongs will be entering Scotland to then come down into England.

    The whole thing is shite, but we all know the mongs at Westminster will give in if the jocks vite to fuck off leaving the English to pick up the bill.

    Like

    • 68
      Speed is verboton says:

      Bollocks, Air traffic control , Scotland already has, it’s one of the main routes to and from the states since 1942 when the American air force brought 4 engined bombers that way and used RAF Glasgow/Abbotsinch ? for aircraft repairs , Ireland is independent yet the Irish didn’t need passports and had free access even during WWII, aircraft and engineers and pilots it already has, Glasgow/Edinburgh/Aberdeen have air services and not all the pilots are English, Aberdeen has the oil rigs helicopters, container ports, ship repairs, radar engineers , marine radio engineers do the pilots/engineers live in England, if the Scots vote NO they have no plan b as winging about a referendum again doesn’t count, they will get the same cuts as England and Wales.

      Like

      • 167
        The British media are cunts says:

        England will have a land border with Scotland, it’s a security issue. If you come into the UK from Ireland you must enter via a port of entry such as an airport or seaport.

        With the jocks you will simply be able to drive or walk across the border. How long before thousands of Muslims are entering via Scotland and then descending on England?

        Like

        • 222
          Anonymous says:

          Surely NI is in the UK and you can drive over the border from Eire.

          Like

          • No man's land says:

            Eire isn’t part of Schengen area so there’s no, or at least, of an issue sharing a land border with them

            It’s a requirement of new EU members to be part of Schengen, as a result Scotland’s border with us will be a problem.

            Like

    • 267
      Anonymous says:

      Anonymous @ 11:12, you clearly have a mental picture of Scotland as some sort of rural backwater which is so far from reality as to disqualify you from discussing it.
      We already have Scottish ATC, and it has an excellent reputation in the aviation community internationally.
      Scotland has a number of pilot training facilities, not being the overcrowded South it is a good place to learn to fly.
      As for engineering training, we might just know a bit about that.
      Could build planes too, if the companies doing it were actually based here instead of outstations of English companies which are always the first for the axe in any “rationalisation” exercise because the big bosses won’t live away from London.

      Like

  23. 49
    carlo gambino says:

    Very poor performance by all three on stage. The ChairMAN utterly failed to stop Salmond shouting down Darling.

    Salmond pretending to the faithful, who in their ignorance swallowed it, that he had got Darling to ‘admit’ something that Darling has never denied – that Scotland will be able to use the pound after a Yes vote.

    The faithful thickies think that using the pound and being in a currency union are one and the same thing. Maybe Salmond does as well.

    Salmond lost because he will not have shifted the polls a single point.

    Winning on Twitter and actually winning are two very different things

    Like

    • 50
      carlo gambino says:

      PS Cybernats, ya rabid sc*m, come and have a go if you think yer hard enuff.

      Like

    • 142
      Norm Normal says:

      Salmond left some huge gaping holes in his plan. Says Scotland has oil until 2050. Then what? He retires and steps off the sinking ship?

      Fails to mention what I said 2 weeks ago. They can keep the pound in name only, not the value. The money in Scottish banks will not have the value it has today.

      Says he will have a mandate from the Scottish people to negotiate a currency union. That’s meaningless, if England says no, it means no. A few million Scots votes in a separate nation don’t trump anything.

      Bizarre that not many have exposed the gaping holes in his none existing plan.

      Like

    • 178
      Braveheart says:

      Don’t understand why we would want to use a foreign currency. Switzerland doesn’t, Norway doesn’t, Denmark doesn’t, the USA doesn’t.
      Greece does.

      Like

  24. 51
    English taxpayer says:

    Good riddance.

    Like

    • 62
      Welsh taxpayer says:

      I couldn’t agree more boyo!
      What makes them so fucking special eh, it was their fucking bank that dropped us all in the shit to start with.

      Like

      • 64
        Anonymous says:

        You don’t seriously think that The Royal Bank of Scotland belongs to the Scottish people do you?

        Also do some posters think that North Sea oil belongs to Britain or Scotland.

        Both nations get revenue not gross worth. It is owned by private companies not government. Governments take the taxes and other payments that’s all.

        Here’s a question for the rest of the UK and particularly Alistair and his mates.:

        If the experiment goes wrong would the UK have Scotland back in the Union?

        Ask smarmy Osborne et al that question.

        Like

        • 75
          táxpáyér says:

          “If the experiment goes wrong would the UK have Scotland back in the Union?”

          Why do you think I call an Independent Scotchland New Darien?

          Like

          • Scots bard says:

            The English steel we could disdain,
            Secure in valour’s station,
            But English gold has been our bane.
            Such a parcel of rogues in a Nation!

            Like

        • 99
          M­a­­q­b­o­­ul says:

          They get their revenues from issuing concessions and production sharing agreements AND taxes. Problem is Scotland are thirty five years too late. For many years oil revenue was pissed away subsidising Scargill and his English miners. Any dreams Scotland have of creating a sovereign wealth fund like Norway to keep the nation in funds forever are long gone. But anyway I couldn’t see SNP being trusted to spend revenue wisely. You only have to look at the failed vanity projects in Edinburgh to understand that.

          Like

          • Up the scots says:

            and their organisation ability …the scottish parliament was supposed to cost £40 million but cost £400 million..and its a sh*te building in the wrong place.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            The Scottish parliament building fiasco was the fault of Labour and the sainted Donald “Three Millions” Dewar.
            The Edinburgh tram was Labour too, although the SNP need to answer for not cancelling it or the Borders rail link which will be another expensive vanity project for the benefit of rich Edinburgh commuters.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Presumably you mean the parliament building and the trams but both of those were Labour projects – not SNP.

            Like

    • 65

      This referendum will become a neverendum with the sentimentalists in Westminster paying more danegeld year by year to keep Scotland in the union ,but Salmond has knowingly whipped up too much resentment and sheer hatred for things to ever be the same again , the union is effectively dead.
      The one solution is to elect an English Parliament with fully devolved powers ,but that is the last thing the British establishment and their Brussels masters want ,because it would be packed to the rafters with UKIP and real conservatives who would tell them what to do with their arrest warrants , their health and safety rules ,their green taxes ,their European court and all the rest of the diktats and shove it up their arses.

      Like

  25. 52
    cured lefty says:

    Fucks sake a thread not infected by spitty , nomate friends of israel habarra whatever the fuck!

    go on you want to come on you can’t help yourself

    Like

    • 56
      Useful idiot Watch says:

      One day…you will see the light.

      Like

      • 57
        cured lefty says:

        Is that it?

        Like

        • 58
          Useful idiot Watch says:

          There are non so blind than those who do not wish to see.

          Like

          • cured lefty says:

            Look up this website Sanctimonious wanker .com you’ll feel right at home

            Like

          • Order Order Bitch Fight! says:

            Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight Fight…..

            Like

          • Useful idiot Watch says:

            One persistent theme is the conflict in the Middle-East and how blowback has affected our lives in the UK and the USA. Although J’ews only comprise about 2% of the entire USA population (and less than half percent of the UK population), in terms of hegemony, they are the dominant ethnic group in NYC if one takes the distribution of cognitive ability into consideration when looking at the 8 million which comprise NYC. NYC is where Wall Street is, which is rather important given that the USA is a free-market liberal-democracy where money talks and minorities can acquire and wield disproportionate power.

            Try to see the bigger picture when you watch the news, read articles in the media/entertaiment industry. Try to be more self critical about what you believe. Much that you (and the likes of thegangofone) post is inductive, and false. As such, you must, in a public forum, be prepared to be corrected and show that you are capable of learning from your mistakes if you wish to be respected for being rational.

            My point here is that sometimes, it helps not to dismiss what one hears or reads as ‘conspiracy’. Sometimes it’s just geography, demographics, gene-barriers and group political/economic interest, possibly exacerbated by a higher prevalence rate of some of the personality disorders and other psychiatric afflictions? What are the chances of this prevalence analysis being true for an endogamous (inbreeding) group?

            Like

          • cured lefty says:

            I’ll refer you to another website … spout your own condescending
            bullshit some daft tit might believe it ..com….

            Like

          • Geography, Economics, Culture, Media...a lot more explains these things says:

            The ge’ne theory of behaviour seems a bit tenuous to me. 100 years ago milli’ons of Br’itons were happy to go to wa’r and hurl themselves over the parapets into the face of machine gun fire.

            Was that (rather stupid from a genetic point of view) behaviour g’ene-determined?

            What would happen today if the call went out to the young men of B’ritain to sign up for an equivalent conflict. Not many takers I’d say.

            You have to explain how the most extreme sort of behaviour – a willingness to die for others – can be explained by ge’nes, and why such a willingness to indulge in such behaviour has vanished from the general popul’ation.

            Like

          • M­a­­q­b­o­­ul says:

            More antis­emitic gobbledygook. Waffles on and on yet there’s nothing of substance; nothing you could deny or prove because he hasn’t actually said anything except that somehow the J­e­ws are manipulating world events and yet nobody knows about this, with the remarkable exception of a lonely individual cooped up in a bedsit in Bour­nemouth, with nothing but sweaty socks and spaghetti hoops to keep him company.

            Like

          • Another poster says:

            This ‘ere Usfull Idiot Watch sounds very much like Eu Funded Pro Eu Troll, to me.

            Like

  26. 69

    I propose the following scenario:

    1 – Scotland votes yes.

    2 – A massive Icelandic volcano makes Scotland disappear in a big toxic cloud of sulphur dioxide and the temperature drops several degrees.

    3 – Everyone not dependent on the state leaves the wasteland

    4 – ????

    Like

    • 85
      Bercow is Labour's joker says:

      2. Could be achieved by way of one of Gordon’s Farts

      Like

    • 256
      Jack Ketch says:

      Everyone not dependent on the State leaves Scotland? According to the Scottish Government’s own figures only 10% of households do not depend on the State, either through employment in the public or publically funded sector, or through benefits.

      Like

  27. 77
    Eh up lad says:

    Not so much a debate – more a Salmond rant in which the hapless Darling could hardly get a word in edgeways. The moderator was a complete fool and totally lost control. The audience was clearly fixed from the beginning. The Scots can sod off for all I care and when they hit Queer Street, which they will when the capital outflows reach astronomic sums; when the cost of running the NHS goes through the roof, and when unemployment skyrockets because companies head South of the Border…..we can slam the door shut and tell them “Sort yourselves out – you made your beds, now lie on them”. But what kind of country will Scotland be when it tries to run its own defence force, foreign service, civil service, police service, welfare service, schools, universities, etc etc. Gradually the wheels will come off everything and voters will put Labour back in power – but then they will be stuck with it. Stuff ‘em – they can eat their North Sea oil. But there is no way we’re having them back.

    Like

    • 239
      Norma Stitz says:

      It would take a robust, pro-English Government to turn a deaf ear to skint Scots with their hand out – and when did we ever have one of those?

      Like

  28. 91
    Plankton in Space says:

    I read ‘1984’ in High School, just thought I’d throw that out there before I hit the hay. Since then I have seen it come to pass in Britain. I don’t mean it in a literal sense but the foundations have been laid by the powers that be, and a simple order could put it all into full effect over night. Or maybe that’s already the case and we just don’t know it yet. In other ways we are already worse than ‘1984’ with the war on terror, this has effectively launched us into a never ending perpetual war. With our support of Al-Qaeda (ISIS) (ISIL) (Islamic State) where and when it fits our current foreign policy goals seems to be our new perpetual war. So this is 2014 with it’s shifting enemies that are created and changed using media whores and professional liars.

    Like

    • 92
      Blue Peter Goldfish says:

      Brave New World!…
      O wonder!
      How many goodly creatures are there here!
      How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world,
      That has such people in’t.

      William Shakespeare, The Tempest, Act V, Scene I, ll. 203–206[5]

      Like

  29. 93
    Anonymous says:

    The audience was apparently chosen by an Independent agency.
    No doubt the same agency selected the compere ?
    Would the agency be the same one used for BBC Question Time perchance?

    Like

    • 180
      Finger of Fun says:

      The programme was organised by the bBC, as you suggesting some bias in the setup, surely shome mishtake.

      Like

  30. 94
    albacore says:

    The problem ain’t Scotland – it’s Parliament
    For decades now it’s fomented dissent
    And chaos out of united order
    Look south, kiddies, not north of the border

    Like

  31. 96
    Late EU voter says:

    Oui, ja.

    Like

  32. 98
    non taxable pikey says:

    Tony Abbott has hit the nail on the head and the response says it all.

    The Islamic Council of Victoria earlier this month boycotted a meeting with Abbott after he said that everyone had to be part of “Team Australia” and “you don’t migrate to this country unless you want to join our team”.

    Like

    • 139
      Dhimmi Dave says:

      That’s very harsh. We should be happy to welcome them for cultural enrichment and benefits.

      Like

    • 153
      Norm Normal says:

      Oooh music to my ears. I would love to join team Australia! Nice to hear a politician looking after the national interest, doesn’t happen in UK very often.

      Like

  33. 102
    JocksHaveWokenUp_Cheerio says:

    I would love to be able to say its been a pleasure these last 300-odd years, but I can’t.

    Whether Scotland fails or prospers as an independent country – again – will have b*gger all to do with the Eton/Oxbridge/career politicians ensconced in the Westminster bubble.

    But Scotland will do alright.

    Cheerio.

    [Cue: foaming at the mouth, incoherent rants and childish name-calling.]

    Like

    • 107
      Cinna says:

      Unfortunately come 19th September you, and particularly 40-odd Liebore MPs, will still be hanging like a millstone around our necks.

      Like

      • 112
        JocksHaveWokenUp_Cheerio says:

        If Scotland is such a ‘millstone around your necks’, then why is London so desperate to hold onto Scotland ?

        Illogical…unless Scotland is actually worth a lot more to London than it cares to admit.

        We will do you a favour and walk / run away from the Union, and take our chances – and on our own terms.

        Like

        • 129
          M­a­­q­b­o­­ul says:

          No you won’t. The result will be a resounding NO, as every single poll shows.

          Like

        • 140
          Cpl Hicks says:

          Despite the wishes of most people south of the border the jocks are too chicken to vote for independence.

          Like

          • Cinna says:

            Quite so. If they had really wanted independence then they would not have insisted that it was nobody’s business but their own. They would have welcomed a vote in England; that’s the one sure way to guarantee Scottish independence.

            Like

          • JocksHaveWokenUp_Cheerio says:

            And when was the last time you visited Scotland to get a feeling on what the locals think about Independence ?

            There is a glaring gap between what locals believe – and what is actually reported in the MSM, including the Scottish MSM !

            The only poll which will be accurate will be the vote itself.

            Is Scotland an alien country to you: have you been there this year ?
            Or do you simply accept everything reported in the MSM as being truthful ?

            Like

          • Cinna says:

            Tell me that same story come the 19th September.

            Like

          • Cinna says:

            Oh, and yes I work quite a bit in Scotland and have many contacts there. Most detest the sight and sound of the old windbag Salmond, and will be voting NO.

            Like

        • 163
          Up the scots says:

          We’re just being respectful and need I say british…60 fewer labour MP’s to increase taxes and pay the public sector more…but we must be polite and pretend scotland will be missed.

          Like

        • 220
          Johnny says says:

          “If Scotland is such a ‘millstone around your necks’, then why is London so desperate to hold onto Scotland ?”

          Even though it isn’t their decision to make they don’t want to be the MPs that lost Scotland. No cost to taxpayers is too great in order to protect their reputation.

          Like

        • 255
          The only Country in Europe not to have its own paliament is England says:

          Islington Jocks like Cameron and Blair et all,
          Anglo Scots like them are to the English, like the Ulster Scots are to the Irish.
          That said good luck Scotland because I think the four Nations can work in Europe (reformed) together far better than they can in the UK where everybody is Equal but some are moor equal than others, After all you Can’t have Union within a union just to keep a few Egotistical politicians happy

          Like

    • 121
      Anonymous says:

      Sounds fine to me. Rather be happy apart than miserable together.

      Like

  34. 104
    Anonymous says:

    The Scottish pound with an interest rate set by the BoE? No thanks I’ll stick with the Union. But clearly the SNP could opt for the Yen or Rouble. I am being asked to sign a blank currency cheque for the SNP without knowing what the currency is. No thanks!

    Like

    • 105
      Rob Roy says:

      Surely if Scotland goes its own way without a currency agreement with the English this will be a good thing for Scotland.

      All the liabilities and debts will firmly be the responsibility of the English and there could easily be a sterling devaluation/downgrade on the back of this.

      Scotland for its part would start with a clean slate in International Markets and a reputation for sensible banking which was only tarnished when Nat West and Halifax BS came calling.

      Like

      • 106
        A Chinaman says:

        I am sure the Chinese would be very interested in investing in an independent Scotland.

        All that whisky .

        Like

      • 122
        Anonymous says:

        Obviously wasn’t the Royal Bank of Scotland, head quartered in Edinburgh, that blew up then.

        Like

        • 170
          Cinna says:

          Nooooo. It was all the fault of that horrible English Natwest Bank. Never mind the financial mis-admistration of Fred the Shred and his mates in the first place. In one post he’s summed up Scottish bigotry.

          Like

          • Cpl Hicks says:

            Accord to the Jock tw@ that got us into the entire mess in the first place….

            It started in America.

            Gordon McRuin can fcuk off and take Scotland with him!

            Like

        • 214
          Ex-Pat Pauper says:

          Those of us who live in England might be well advised to withdraw all balances from NatWest/RBS in the event of a Yes Vote. Who knows what additional financial powers the ‘King of Scotland’ might give himself and how safe will be our savings in a Scottish Bank.

          Like

  35. 108
    Wally Scott says:

    Scotland has nothing to lose but the sanctimonious self serving arrogant Westminster elite.

    Listening to them now you could get the impression that us Scots have consistently got a better deal out of Westminster than other parts of the UK.

    Sure there will be major problems but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and address the demons in your head straight on.

    Vote for independence and go for it.

    After seeing Darling in action then what the hell.

    Salmond is nearly 60 so he won’t be around in mainstream politics much longer: it is the youth of Scotland who will take Scotland forward and not him.

    Go Scotland go !

    Like

    • 120
      The English taxpayers who have been subsidising the Jockanese parasites for 300 years says:

      +1

      Go Scotland go !

      Like

    • 141
      bergen says:

      It’s all a farce. All the other parties are offering devomax and Salmond seems just to want a more extreme version. No one has told us what it will look like but I guarantee that we’ll have to pay for it and the West Lothian question will be forgotten again.

      Like

      • 151
        Pizza Delivery Man says:

        If Cameron wanted a serious debate surely he should have sat down with Salmond ages ago and agreed points of principle upon all the points that were up in the air last night.

        The whole thing is a complete and utter shambles.

        Like

        • 185
          Cpl Hicks says:

          The whole thing is a shambles because Scotland is a socialist paradise.

          Dave, like most Tories, is toxic in Scotland hence he’s keeping well out of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if the only reason he’s for the no vote is because he doesn’t want the country to split on his watch.

          Surely any sane Tory would be for the yes vote. Gets rid of 40ish fukwit Labour MPs at a stroke and rids us of the whinging Sweaties and their tax burden for good.

          Like

          • Esther from Primark says:

            Doesn’t Cameron get extra money in his pay-packet (and expenses) though for being PM of Scotland ?

            Like

        • 272
          Anonymous says:

          He preferred to terrify the Scots into a No vote by the uncertainty. We won’t forget it.

          Like

  36. 109
    Phil Hammond,the voice of reason says:

    An attempted murder, 174 arrests and a policeman assaulted at Notting Hill Carnival … Notting Hill Carnage more like.

    Like

    • 130

      No mention of this yet on the BBC news , after all it is the ‘biggest street party in Europe’ !

      Like

      • 221
        non taxable pikey says:

        Meanwhile Great Dalby Day went off without a hitch, everyone had a good time including the local Plod, nobody was arrested and the village made a lot of money for good local causes. Pity about the rain, but we managed. Enjoy the enrichment and enhancement.

        Like

    • 158
      Norm Normal says:

      229 arrests – latest count, stabbings, drugs etc. True family event!

      Like

      • 171
        Cinna says:

        Just another typical day then.

        Like

      • 191

        I find this outpouring of cultural enrichment heartening , especially for those who have the good fortune to live in the temporarily enriched area as every August bank holiday, they board up their windows and erect fences around their property in the hope it will pass off without too much meyham, they must endure the ear splitting cacophony of sheer noise and the foul stench of cannabis and urine, and wake up to the total devastation in the litter strewn streets breath a deep sigh of relief that it is over for now until they realise the preparations will soon be underway for a repeat performance in just another year .
        Some people have all the benefits of enrichment don’t they?

        Like

  37. 114
    Mike Hardcock says:

    Like

    • 134
      Jimmy So vile says:

      Id like to work as a volunteer teacher please.

      Like

    • 218
      E L Whisty (Head Groundsman) says:

      The time to educate children about sex is when they ask about sex or show awareness of sexuality. It should be given by their parents in a kindly and relaxed way.

      Schools and ‘The State’ should keep their damned noses out of family business.

      As for ‘religious leaders’ – keep your effing hands off our children!

      Like

  38. 115
    Owen Jones weather report says:

    Tel Aviv: Partly Cloudy with scattered Hamas rockets. High of 30C Humidity: 89% low of 24C

    Like

    • 118
      Owen Jones says:

      Here’s my answer to trolls :)

      http://owenjonesramblings.tumblr.com/post/76255250252

      Like

      • 123
        One can always spot the state-edjurkaytid says:

        The heading should read, “Owen Jones’s ramblings”.

        Didn’t bother reading further.

        Like

    • 126
      JustSayNo_toFriendsofIsrael says:

      Tel Aviv: [someone remember to switch on 'Iron Dome' and we will be safe from any rockets.]

      Gaza: Possibility of phosphorous, with precise downpours of Israeli airstrikes.
      Highs of 1,000C in mainly built-up areas.
      Coastal areas and beaches particularly unpleasant and children are advised to stay indoors.

      Like

      • 135
        M­a­­q­b­o­­ul says:

        If Hamas are able to build mile upon mile of a sophisticated tunnel network, why are they unable to build bomb shelters for the people they are supposed to represent? They must know that if they provoke Israel then there is going to be violent backlash. So why don’t they provide protection for the people?

        I’m waiting for your response.

        Like

        • 163
          JustSayNo_toFriendsofIsrael says:

          No idea – you win.

          Like

          • /\/\/\ says:

            Because the ZioNAZIs would invent another pretext to trash it, like they regularly do. They also control the availability of most things including water and building materials.

            Like

        • 173
          Ryan says:

          Why don’t they expend their energies on making Gaza a nicer place to live for the inhabitants, rather than constantly hating/fighting their more intelligent neighbours, in a battle they can never win? Comes down to the Islamic mindset at the end of the day, I suppose.

          Like

        • 179
          /\/\/\ says:

          Because the ZioNAZIs would target civilian shelters with bunker bombs and claim that they were used for storing “rockets”.

          Like

          • Cpl Hicks says:

            Given the way Hamm’ass operate if they did build bomb shelters they’d use them to shelter bombs rather than innocent pallys. They’d then fill them with bombs, women and children and pass on the coordinates to the IDF. Result – more dead women and children but a propaganda victory causing leftards in the UK or shills in Qatar w’anking themselves into a frenzy.

            Pretty much all of the targeted strikes against the ham’ass leadership are from ham’ass informants.

            I know this because according to EYBW (and whatever moniker he’s using today) I’m a mos’sad agent….just like he is!

            Like

        • 258
          Vimy Ridge says:

          Tunnel under the Fookers, out of sight out of mind.

          Like

  39. 117
    Labour deserves to lose all their Westminister seats in Scotland says:

    Like

  40. 128
    Socialism is theft says:

    If Scotland votes NO can the English have a vote to become independent of Scotland, please.

    Scotland is full of socialists. All the non-socialists have migrated to England or other countries. All the socialist English should feck off to Scotland.

    Like

    • 131
      M­a­­q­b­o­­ul says:

      Unfortunately England has more than enough of its own socialists. The something for nothing attitude has taken a grip hold of 30% of the population: those jobsworths in state funded positions and those they patronise – the feckin idle.

      Like

  41. 133
    Chris Huhne says:

    An early train on a late August morning; a rushed espresso on a half-lit platform; a feeling that Autumn has bought its ticket in advance.

    Like

    • 165
      Norm Normal says:

      It’s global warming, 10 years ago Monty Don said we would be throwing away our green houses and growing tomatoes outside. The BBC and the MET Office told him so. What? Tomato popsicles?

      Like

  42. 136
    Mrs May says:

    Has anyone discussed custody arrangements for Hadrian’s Wall yet or are we going to have to do the repointing on both sides?

    Like

  43. 138
    I Roger Boys MP says:

    Can someone start bricking up the holes in Hadrians wall in advance ?
    But we all know Camermong the Weak will give them more than their share of our money to get them started

    Goodbye Sweaty Socks !

    Like

  44. 145
    Jezza says:

    Salmond certainly did win. Listening on the radio Darling came over as bullying and butting in rudely all the time, trying to shout Salmond down, then looking on-the-run.

    The role of proxy for the Westminster coalition did not work well for Mr. Darling. Labour is fighting the Conservatives over NHS privatisation when it is south of the border, but last evening Darling wanted Scotland to stand behind what the Conservatives have planned for their vision of the NHS. This hypocrisy was too much to bear. All the rattling on about Plan B for currency went nowhere for Darling because Salmond answered the question several times over. Darling even answered the question for him himself: the Scots can keep the pound if they want to, and thereafter control can be negotiated against how much national debt is transferred.

    The Conservatives are not popular north of the border and their policies are just as unpopular even when coming through the mouth of Mr. Darling. How the Scots will vote is not easy to predict and is their business. They are cautious which often benefits the status quo, but there are many Scots unhappy with what Westminster has been delivering to them. Who can blame them? I am not so happy myself.

    Like

  45. 146
    Oi vey, my life says:

    How about an independent England?

    Er, nope.

    England is being eradicated, the notion of England is being systematically erased, our history repudiated and smeared and demeaned. The English people dont have a homeland now, we alone among the nations of the earth are earmarked to become a refugee diaspora or persecuted ignored minority within what used to be England.

    Millions turn out to cheer a football team, only a handful turn out to support our nation in its hour of greatest peril, perhaps we deserve to be wiped out.

    Like

    • 150
      Casual Observer II says:

      It’s all the fault of the self-serving corrupt ConLibLab t(u)rds, currently headed by Bumsex Dave.

      Like

    • 152
      Speed is verboton says:

      If Scotland becomes independent, England becomes partially independent , it only leaves the real vacuum of money, Wales to be dumped, Northern Ireland will always be a hot potato unless it goes with Scotland

      Like

      • 162
        Show Some Resilience says:

        Excellent. NI is a black hole that soaks up public spending and provides little in return beyond gangsters, bombs and bigotry.

        Time to cut them loose and make them stand on their own two feet. If they can stop kneecapping each other maybe they can make it.

        Like

      • 260
        The only Country in Europe not to have its own paliament is England says:

        Did they not take their fifty two and a half billion pieces of silver some years ago.
        that negates them from any say on England’s future

        Like

      • 276
        Anonymous says:

        And then London can declare independence from its sponging neighbours.

        Like

    • 203
      JocksHaveWokenUp_Cheerio says:

      You’re absolutely right – and it’s another compelling reason for Scotland to take back its Independence, and to restore its national identity and pride before it’s too late.

      Another good reason to vote ‘YES’.

      Like

  46. 147
    Curiouser and Curiouser says:

    What will be the schedule for shipping all the fucking Scots immigrants back into Scotchland, particularly their Liebour M.P.s?

    Or will that weak useless bastard Camercnut just continue to let the obese fried mars bar skivers to be subsidised by English taxpayers?

    Like

    • 154
      A lawyer trying to be helpful says:

      Oddly enough Border controls and passports were not discussed last night alongside enforced repatriations.

      Like

    • 208
      JocksHaveWokenUp_Cheerio says:

      Apologies in advance, but as a prerequisite to the negotiations on the share of the UK national debt, the Scottish MP’s will not be allowed to return to Scotland.

      They must remain in England, and continue to work on their ‘soft, southern sh*te’ accents, and expenses fiddling.

      And the other proviso is that Gordon Brown must return to London.

      All the best with rUK.

      Cheerio.

      Like

      • 261
        The only Country in Europe not to have its own paliament is England says:

        We don’t want Trident but if you have to use the Nuclear option we would sooner have the missile rather than the Mong

        Like

  47. 149
    Fermented rat piss and sawdust filled sheeps bladders says:

    Lest we forget that the Sweaty Socks of Bliars government voted in tuition fees for our universities while keeping their own free

    Oh the Hypocracy of socialism

    Like

  48. 155
    Fermented rat piss and sawdust filled sheeps bladders says:

    We need to put nets across some of our northern rivers to prevent our salmon crossing the border illegally

    Like

  49. 159
    Obese Salmond says:

    Gish yer money or I’ll deep fry your face.

    Like

  50. 161
    Oi vey, my life says:

    The Shetland Isles, that little gaggle of islands that could destroy Mr McToad of Salmond hall’ dream of a viable independent Scotland.

    If the Shetland Isles decides to remain within the union how would McBraveheart compel them to surrender to his will? Would he send in the troops to conquer the Islands? Let him try and he will look like a petty dictator denying people the gift of self determination he demands for his own people.

    Like

    • 273
      Anonymous says:

      Since they are part of Scotland plus they want to stay that way you speak rubbish. Typical colonial British ploy a la Kuwait which is really part of Iraq. The game’s up – everybody knows you for what you are Perfidious Albion.

      Like

  51. 168
    Fermented rat piss and sawdust filled sheeps bladders says:

    Is this deal “Sale or return” , once they go tits up do we have to let them back in along with all debts incurred ?

    Like

  52. 172
    Captain Blowhard says:

    If I bluster, shout and talk over the other person, shows I am right.

    Like

  53. 174
    You do not know who I am says:

    There are 196 countries in the World.

    By population an independent Scotland would enter this League Table somewhere between position 110/115.

    In terms of GDP it would enter somewhere between 30/40.

    How a country of the size of Scotland could realistically hope to rise up the GDP tables in relation to its population is perhaps a great mystery which no one has really addressed.

    Scots would be daft to go independent as they have done more than well out of the Union.

    Scotland is already batting well above its economic weight.

    Like

    • 217
      JocksHaveWokenUp_Cheerio says:

      ‘I do know what you are’.

      No point in discussing sweeping statements without quoted sources of independent proof, so will just highlight this little beauty;

      “…Scots would be daft to go independent as they have done more than well out of the Union…”

      That short statement nicely encapsulates why the majority will vote ‘YES’.

      In 1707 there was widespread rioting in the streets of Scotland as the people just didn’t want to ‘merge’ with England. The land-owning decision makers were bribed, and signed up anyway. The people of Scotland never accepted the Union, and now it is time to correct a wrong – with a simple vote by the people.

      As a wee test: say your short statement as written above to ANY Scottish person of your acquaintance – and see what sort of response you get.

      Westminster just doesn’t get it !

      Like

      • 232
        Small minds think alike too says:

        Do you mean “Scottish person” or “Person who lives in Scotland” ? There is a difference ? Not all Scots live in Scotland and not all who live in Scotland are “Scottish”.

        Like

  54. 181
    SEE YOU JIMMY says:

    Salmond = Racist

    Like

    • 188
      A green person who likes talking utter crap says:

      Salmond might have won the debate but he has not won the argument.

      Scotland will still be with us come the autumn.

      Like

      • 274
        Anonymous says:

        4.1m people registered to vote, 80% (3.28m) turnout expected
        To win we need 1.64m; Yes Declaration already has 1.3m signatures. Byeeee Scot haters!

        Like

  55. 187
    Democrat1 says:

    At the last General Election the SNP got around 650 thousand votes and 7 MPs. The Tories got around 600 votes and 1 MP. Lib Dems got around 700 thousand and Labour around 1 million. So when Alex Salmond claims that a) there are no Tories in Scotland, and b) in an independent Scotland ‘you will always get the government you vote for’ he is either ignorant of the facts or deliberately trying to mislead people. I think it is the latter. And remember that the SNP used to be a really right wing party before changing tack to try and achieve its objectives.

    Like

  56. 192
    I Roger Boys MP says:

    Breaking news
    Agroup of Russian soldiers captured by the Ukrainian military , crossed the border by accident

    Yeh Right !
    Just like those tens of thousands of Americans who accidently crossed the border into Cambodia in the 1960’s

    Like

    • 199
      a Chinaman says:

      Ruskies are absolutely hopeless when left alone with a compass

      Like

      • 207
        I Roger Boys MP says:

        They must be made by the same company that makes their cameras

        Like

      • 262
        The only Country in Europe not to have its own paliament is England says:

        Did the RMs not land in Spain some years ago, of course the Septics have never been known to play around with their satellites have they

        Like

  57. 204
    I Roger Boys MP says:

    Getting rid of the sweaty socks sixty odd labour parasite MP’s , that should mean a Tory landslide come the election

    Like

  58. 206
    I Roger Boys MP says:

    Why is it Camermong gave the Jocks a referendum so easily , and yet the lying bastard failed to deliver one for us on Europe ?

    Like

  59. 210
    Uncle Tom Cobley says:

    I believe Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Channel Islands, Isle of Man, and Cornwall have no business with England and it’s about time England had.no business with them. If they wish to pay their own way and sort their own problems out then so be it. Goodbye and good wishes!

    Now, I am also hoping that in the event of a yes vote in around 2016 that smug little prick Milibollocks will have 60 Labour MP’s whipped from him. That will be so funny!

    Like

  60. 216
    Anonymous says:

    “Final Debate Poll Verdict: Salmond Wins”
    But scant mention of any Caliphate reprisals planned to follow-up a Scottish NO vote, Darling. Hopefully serving as punitive punish and a future disincentive, against the unconscionable impertinence of flirting with the notion of independence. Grey wolf said, amongst other equally questionable assertions, that money cannot be pulled out of thin air. Really? Then kindly explain the primary principle underpinning quantitative easing?

    Like

  61. 223
  62. 225
    JocksHaveWokenUp_Cheerio says:

    I would have liked Salmond discuss the point in detail last night about what would happen if Scotland voted ‘NO’.

    There is now far too much risk involved: ‘YES’ must be the choice.

    Why?

    In the event of a ‘NO’ vote would London show deep gratitude and follow up its promises and really make it ‘Better Together’ ?

    No chance.

    Regardless of who is in power, there will be no political will to do anything positive for Scotland.

    In fact, the reverse will happen.

    Reduced budget, reduced powers, a return to the good old ‘Thatcher’ years in Scotland. That is the bleak future for Scotland by staying in the UK.

    That is why voters are now fully engaged in Scotland and will vote ‘YES’, despite the ‘poll results’ as quoted in the compliant, London controlled MSM.

    Like

  63. 227

    Clearly no need to hold the poll in September then.

    Like

  64. 233
    Small minds think alike too says:

    An independent Scotland could manage it’s own finances and also be a major influence in Europe like errr – Ireland and Iceland!

    Like

  65. 235
    Four-eyed English Genius says:

    Wee Eck, just shouted his usual bollox more loudly and was allowed to get away with it by the pathetic moderator a lá Dimblebore. I doubt whether anyone’s’ voting intentions will have changed in the light of this “debate”

    Like

  66. 236
    c777 says:

    Please close the door behind you.
    And take your Labour trash out to the wheelie bin as well!
    Thanks!

    Like

  67. 245

    i d like to teach the world to sing .

    Like

  68. 246
    Dave says:

    It would certainly be interesting if Yes happens – Scotland forced to use the pound and kept out of the EU (or let in on condition of joining the euro).

    Like

  69. 247
    Clementine says:

    Has anyone thought what happens if the Scots vote YES? No more Scottish MPs. What about the Lords? Who gets kicked out, who stays? How do you decide? Ex Scottish MPs? But what if they were cabinet ministers or PMs. What if theyre English born etc? The Lords would have to be completely restructured. Could be the chance to put right everything that’s wrong with British politics. Why do Dave and co give a hoot anyway? Isn’t there a fortune to be saved in subsidies? Won’t the national debt and deficit drop immediately? No more Scotland and after independence day, another year and dump the EU? Independence Day for Britain? Wouldn’t this be the economic wet dream of most right thinking pols? No subsidising Europe, no more tide of immigrants? An end to the Common Travel Area with Ireland in the process, who needs ‘em? Who needs the trade with them either, we can grow our own potatoes! Maybe, just maybe all the preceding is bollocks, maybe its the other way round. But hey, who cares, as long as Dave and his mates are making money out of juicy health contracts and fracking licenses. Y’know the ones, the ones where us mugs pick up the tab, sell it dirt cheap and take all the risks by picking up the pieces when companies are ‘ceased no assets’ while the profits are privatised, moved off shore and via several trusts and share purchase schemes go into the pockets of Tory donating ‘Non-Doms’ who reward ex Prime Ministers and Chancellors with Non Executive Directorships, Consultancies etc. 30 years til the Cabinet Papers are released, or will they make it 50? Pay more attention folks! When all three parties agree on something you KNOW they are shitting it. Pay attention, research – seek and ye shall find. Follow the money…

    Like

  70. 248
    Big D says:

    If further devolved powers have been promised whats the point of keeping the thick Jocks on board.
    They will cost us even more and still keep bleating about how downtrodden they are.
    Let them go back to clan fighting and eating fried Mars bars and sooner rather than later.
    By bye way the First Minister reminds me of a snake oil salesman , utter charlatan .
    The Scots are very welcome to him , he’s about to sell them down the river.

    Like

  71. 270
    Jim says:

    Darling was holding his own until he admitted he was a Labour politician and lost all Credibility.
    Salmond just played on people’s lack of Knowledge.
    When is a Pound Note not a Pound Note?
    When it is printed on paper.

    Like

  72. 277
    Meridith says:

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    Like


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VOTER-RECALL
Find out more about PLMR


Austrian Chancellor Werner Faymann on Cameron’s refusal to pay the £1.7 billion EU bill by December 1st:

“Well, then he’s gonna pay on December 2nd”



Mycroft says:

Have you read the last bit of Animal Farm?

You know where the animals are looking through the Farmhouse window?

My TV screen was that window at lunch-time today.

Be careful, the sudden self-congratulatory tone, the slightly pudgy outline of indulgence and you become exactly what you should despise.

The jolly face of the Quisling Cameron poses for your camera has mesmerised and deceived you, you who were once not so deceived.

You were no firebrand, you were a damp squib in my opinion, sorry.

You need a damned good kick up the ahse!


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