April 23rd, 2014

Davey’s New Green Projects to Cost Taxpayer £1.4 Billion a Year

Energy Secretary Ed Davey has today unveiled eight new major renewables projects which he says will be funded by £12 billion of private sector investment to “boost green growth and green jobs“. Renewable projects are guaranteed a price for the power they produce, meaning that the difference between the guaranteed price and the price on the market is subsidised by the taxpayer. Guido has been crunching the numbers to work out how much the subsidy for these new projects will cost taxpayers overall.

Wind

The wholesale price for power for winter 2015 is £53 per MWh. There are 5 offshore wind projects totalling 3,184MW, each guaranteed £140 per MWh if completed in 2017-18. That’s a subsidy of £87 per MWh.

If wind farms generate 35% of the time, that’s 3,066 hours per year. At £87 per hour on 3,184MW of capacity that’s a subsidy of £849 million.

Biomass CHP

There is 1 Biomass CHP project providing just 299MW. This is guaranteed £125 per MWh. A subsidy of £72 per MWh.

If this generates 85% of the time, that’s 7,446 hours per year. At £72 per hour on 299MW of capacity that’s a subsidy of £160million.

Biomass Conversions

Then there are 2 Biomass Conversions totalling 1,065MW. These are guaranteed £105 per MWh. A subsidy of £52 per MWh.

If these generate 85% of the time, that’s 7,446 hours per year. At £52 per hour on 1,065MW of capacity that’s a subsidy of £412 million.

Overall, that is a total subsidy of £1.4 billion per year.

Davey said today that the new contracts for renewable projects will support 8,500 green jobs. At £1.4 billion, that amounts to £167,000 per green job. Or green crap as the PM likes to call it.


211 Comments

  1. 1
    Brainbox says:

    “boost green growth and green jobs”

    Jobs are a cost. Always be careful when politicians talk about creating new jobs at the stroke of a pen because they are really doing it with your wallet or pay packet.

    Like

    • 15
      Mr Foo Ling says:

      And if Britain stopped burning any fuel then not a difference to the total global emissions of co2 would it make.

      Like

      • 21
        Rodney says:

        Exactly. These Lib Dem goons actually want to make British people worse off when it will achieve nothing given the rest of the world won’t act.

        Like

        • 29
          C.O.Jones says:

          Having exported all our production base to the most polluting countries in the world.

          Like

          • Being Green or Being Beijing says:

            Strangely, Germany – the most committed to green energy in Europe – is also the most successful in terms of industrial production and exports.

            Er – explain that one, you antediluvian smogophiles.

            Like

          • Beijing says:

            Is that the same Germany that is building new coal-fired power stations?

            Like

          • Being Green or Being Beijing says:

            That’s the Germany that produced a quarter of its electricity from renewables last year. A fact you might hate, but a fact nonetheless.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            We certainly exported the transformers from Didcot Power Station – to a new coal power station being built in Germany.

            Like

        • 32
          The Thames says:

          They don’t seem to know many British people. They live in a multiculti bubble in the richmond/twickenham area having dinner parties with foreign academics and other well-heeled chatterati.

          Like

          • táxpáyér says:

            Those nice people who get paid by pointing guns at real workers until they turn over their wallet contents.

            Like

          • Better than all the rest. says:

            And write jointly signed letters to the Guardian because they are convinced that they are very important people indeed.

            Like

          • Chatham House says:

            You have no idea how much it stings when an academic is NOT asked to sign one of those joint letters. The highs to be had actually getting to redraft the text and make important amendments are astonishing. Better than sex.

            Like

        • 158
          Being Green or Being Beijing says:

          We should be backing a full programme of energy storage. UK company Highview is a world leader. Let’s get behind it and cash in worldwide.

          http://www.imeche.org/news/engineering/ge-link-boosts-energy-storage

          This technology will solve the problem of wind and solar intermittency…not that that will gladden the hearts of you smog-lovers.

          Like

          • Jacky Treehorn says:

            This is so typical of fascist that they portray their opponents as something they are not. Think about it, do you really think we want smog or pollution? Of course not but we also think it is not a good idea to waste money on feel good acts that achieve nothing apart from making idiots feel good in their tummy.

            Like

          • Being Green or Being Beijing says:

            It’s not fascist. It’s a policy choice issue. You can either work towards green energy and enjoy clean air, or you opt for smog, as China has done and as we used to.

            Displacing fossil fuels with green energy will obviously clean up our air. You can argue the price of doing so is insupportable, but you can’t argue there is no link with the choice between poor and good air quality.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            We already have clean air, unlike China where you can open a coal burner in a residential suburb. This sounds like a very expensive way of making an expensive unreliable method of generation, less unreliable but met ore expensive. There is little more odious the politicians boasting of creating green jobs.

            Like

      • 74
        C O (Ξ7q1) says:

        Carbon Dioxide emissions are not important.

        Most forget in all these arguments that the main job of a catalytic converter in a car is to convert un-burnt hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide in the exhaust into water and carbon dioxide.

        Not suggesting that people stop driving, or give up on catalytic converters, but seeing as there is nothing much to confirm that temperatures are trending up as a result of man’s activities, and even less to suggest that carbon dioxide has anything to do with increased land temperatures, this subsidy is a complete fraud, based on fraud.

        Like

        • 175
          English Heretic says:

          But they aren’t tending up – our own ‘climate scientists’ say so. You can find this out for yourself if you can get past the alarmist lies.

          Like

      • 92
        Anonymous says:

        Just 65 Million dead people, the U.K. would collapse, cities would fail now that’s what I call an environmental disaster and the result of the policies proposed by the greens.

        Like

      • 123
        Four-eyed English Genius says:

        And it would not matter if it did!

        Like

      • 160
        Eels says:

        I thought that was Wayne Rooney.

        Like

      • 174
        English Heretic says:

        Expensive and pointless tokenistic stuff is what we righteous Lib Dems do so we can hold our heads up when in the right company. Freezing to death in winter 2018/19 is for poor people and we don’t really give a stuff about them. I mean, one wouldn’t invite one over for supper would one?

        Like

        • 182
          Being Green or Being Beijing says:

          Whose old and poor are more likely to freeze to death do you think? The UK’s with its wonderful non-green energy system or Germany’s – mad old Germany, hellbent on promoting and developing green energy?

          Well?

          Thought so, no answer…

          Like

          • The Critic says:

            When you look beyond the cherry-picked hype, the results are dismal and disquieting. Despite massive construction of new capacity, electricity output from renewables, especially from wind and solar, grew at a sluggish rate. Germany is opening new coal- and gas-fired plants. Renewable electricity is proving so unreliable and chaotic that it is starting to undermine the stability of the European grid and provoke international incidents. The spiraling cost of the renewables surge has sparked a backlash, including government proposals to slash subsidies and deployment rates. Worst of all, the Energiewende made no progress at all in clearing the German grid of fossil fuels or abating greenhouse emissions—nor is it likely to for at least a decade longer.

            During 2011/12 Germany’s greenhouse emissions actually increased by 1.6.%

            Mad old Germany indeed.

            Like

          • Being Green or Being Beijing says:

            A sluggish rate! They’ve been adding solar at about 9GWs a year for several years.

            It might be a fact you dislike and seek to deny but it remains a fact: Germany is ALREADY getting 25% of its electricity generation from renewables. No blackouts and no negative effect on their economy.

            The greenhouse emissions will begin to decline again very soon, because the proportion of green energy continues to rise.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            30% of their renewables are biomass a.k.a wood burners. Despite 65GW renewable capacity installed, more than the UK uses, they still only generate 25% of their total, consumption, which only goes to illustrate how useless the ‘green’ renewables are.

            Like

    • 30
      - says:

      kundalini force is inside the chamelion.
      he of many colours.
      .
      i am sitting on the universe and the world is going through time.
      when the tunnel splits, and they all come tumbling out. when time is weed, weed out time

      Like

    • 33
      táxpáyér says:

      Green is the new extended welfare state for landowners.

      Like

    • 83
      Bosun Higgs says:

      A politician in the grip of a spending compulsion is not be reasoned with. It’s an addiction that holds him, binds him and enslaves him until he will do anything, tell any lie or create any disaster in order to satisfy his lust.

      Like

    • 93
      Liar.Politicians says:

      Ed Davey says you must pay higher energy bills to pay more subsidies to scammers like The Queen, and all those useless wind turnines that need “the right wind” to actually do anything – but still need power stations because wind is 100% unreliable.

      We should install a generator in teh House of Commons powered by all the bullshit the MPs spout on behalf of their corporate friends.

      Like

    • 128
      The Growler says:

      Fawkesy can you remember when you were were a teenager, an American guy charmed Maggie into giving him £110Million to start a supa duper sports car plant in Northern Ireland I wonder how few jobs generated and I wonder what happened to that car plant, say about 300 at a push employed

      Like

    • 132
      The two muppets. says:

      Ed Davey ,What a waste of space . He has made a career out of the global warming scam.

      Like

      • 143
        Jagman 84 says:

        He needs reshuffling into a padded cell! When he talks about “green crap”, he has the eyes of a madman! Please stop him pissing our taxes away on flights of fantasy.

        Like

    • 153
      Being Green or Being Beijing says:

      Green energy produces something that has a cash value. The creation of worthwhile good quality jobs, spread pretty evenly across the country, is a positive economic benefit.

      Like

      • 161
        Hmmm says:

        Jobs are a cost not a benefit you ignorant fucking moron. Read a book for fuck’s sake.

        And the point is that ‘green energy’ is more expensive (and therefore resource intensive) than fossil fuels and can’t possibly achieve the idiotic purpose for which they are supposedly built (i.e. slightly postponing the end of the world, which unquestioningly faithful conformist idiots like you have since time immemorial believed to be perpetually nigh).

        Like

        • 165
          Being Green or Being Beijing says:

          Abuse is about your level of argumentation.

          You need to study some basic economics.

          Is Germany richer or poorer than this country? In Germany there are about 300,000 jobs linked to the renewables industry.

          In terms of a national economy, the point is: what is the total economic effect on your country of pursuing a green energy strategy. That obviously requires a complex analysis. But clearly there are gains from improved health due to use of clean fuels, positive effects from internal capital investment, and creation of gainful domestic employment. The issue of carbon reduction is a side one really at a national level.

          Like

          • John says:

            Hi BJ/BB, it’s a shame people of little patience haven’t discussed your proposals with due care. However, they are right.

            Germany went hell for leather, in the way their stereotype rather suggests, for a Green approach. At this snapshot in time, you can still see that legacy. But legacy it is. They are building 10s of coal fired power stations, and intend to burn their ‘home grown’ lignite in them. You probably know, not even very good coal, quite the reverse….

            I am afraid the poster boy of the Greens is about to be de-frocked….hmm those are the mixed metaphors that came to me anyway….

            Like

          • Being Green or Being Beijing says:

            We hear this propaganda about the German energy policy all the time. A couple of years ago, it was “the lights are about to go out in Germany”…it never happened and it never will. The Germans are far too organised for that – at least it won’t happen because of green energy. Germany has one of the most reliable grids in teh world – far more reliable than the USA.

            Now the propaganda claim is that Germany is reverting to burning brown coal because the green energy policy has been a failure.

            This is absurd.

            All that has happened is that the Germans, frightened (quite rightly) by the Japanese nuclear energy disaster decided to get out of nuclear as quickly as possible. That meant a slight expansion of coal in the short term. But most of the coal power stations being “built” are not new – they are refurbishments of existing plants which will make the industry far less polluting. At the same time there was a slight over-expansion of solar (i.e. the installation programme was just too successful) and that has led to an adjustment as well.

            Meanwhile the march goes on – every year Germany is adding huge, huge amounts of renewable energy to its infrastructure.

            Watch out next for Germany solving the energy storage problem…then you smoggers will really be p’d off.

            Like

          • The Critic says:

            Do you actually look at what is happening in Germany? Please see my earlier post. I note,anything you don’t like is ‘propaganda which means it’s pointless having any conversation with you as you continue to cherry pick what supports your view and dismiss anything which does not.

            Hardly a basis upon which to persuade others about your views is it, although perhaps useful for a little light trolling to pass the time?

            If the issue is as serious as you state in your many posts, why do you approach any discussion of the subject in such an odd and confrontational way? Surely that will simply harden views opposed to your own?

            I

            Like

  2. 2
    Me says:

    Two days running the news has featured Brown and now Bliar. I thought we had got rid of them.

    Like

  3. 3
    Purpletastic says:

    Ooooh will this craziness never end? Surely it would make more sense to invest that in nuclear power which generates 100% of the time?

    Like

    • 44
      Spartacus says:

      will this craziness never end?

      I dont know. We will have to ask Rumpy Pumpy and his mates.

      Like

      • 134
        still walking into darkness says:

        Ed Davey’s so called ‘new plan’ here, well this is another EU led initiative, I’m surprised more mention isn’t made of it. I wonder why. Bit like the new divorce rules announced yesterday and the role of mediators I think they called them, well guess what, that’s another EU led initiative that’ll end up costing the taxpayer more.

        Like

        • 162
          surlyscot says:

          Fuckwit Davey should be sent to the Gualags, he is truly mental, where the fuck does he think the £12 billion will come from?? UK PLC already owes £1.25 TRILLION – dream on you doolally bastard,
          read the Liberum Capital Report on the upcoming crisis in UK looney energy policy, that is if he can read – which I doubt.

          Like

    • 130
      The Growler says:

      Yup, a good site would be the old Battersea power station something nice and central for Londoners, and then London would have its very own powerstation and not depending on the rest of the UK they can dispose all the waste in all those disused tunnels under London.

      Like

    • 136
      NE Frontiersman says:

      Or just transfer the subsidy to our bills, so they start from zero P per KwH for the essentials, then gear up to painful levels the more we use.
      We’d soon work out the best economy measures if left to ourselves.

      Any new form of new energy generation is pointless until we stop wasting the stuff we already have.

      Like

    • 150
      Being Green or Being Beijing says:

      Yes, nuclear is so good…at laying waste to whole swathes of countryside: a kind of permanent foot and mouth crisis.

      Like

      • 163
        surlyscot says:

        abd what the fuck do you think these useless turbines do?? with the thousands of tons of concrete and steel causing water pollution, driving people nuts with the noise and of course, these useless bird and bat blenders STILL NEED 90% backup from conventional power sources !! twats like you would probably prefer us all to live in caves in the dark! check out GridwatchUK to see how really useless these windmills are, if you dare. give me a nuclear power station anytime.

        Like

        • 166
          Being Green or Being Beijing says:

          Completely hysterical nonsense.

          Why do you say they are useless? They are generating about 5% of our electricity. In Germany over 30% of their electricity is being generated by renewables.

          The effects on agriculture and a national economy have been shown in both Russia and Japan. In a small country like the UK use of such technology is near suicidal.

          Far better to go green.

          The effects on birds are hugely exaggerated. High buildings with reflective windows cause many, many times more bird deaths. Bats can be more affected, but that is simply an argument for careful siting.

          Once again we see the smog-loving minority here resort to abuse instead of argument.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Those figures for wind power are fiddled beyond belief. Check the website quoted above on a freezing still morning, rather common in a UK winter, see what use they are.

            Last I heard the UK wasn’t likely to see a Tsunami, so I think we’re probably OK on that one.

            Like

          • Being Green or Being Beijing says:

            No UK tsunami?

            Recent research suggests there was one in 1607.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Channel_floods,_1607

            No reason to suppose it couldn’t happen again tomorrow.

            The figures for wind energy generation are fully audited. Not sure what you are on about. I think you might be making the common mistake of assuming the rating of the turbine indicates how much it will generate on a 24/7 basis. Normally you have to divide by between a quarter and a third. But everyone who knows anything about wind energy knows that.

            Like

          • So calling someone who disagrees with the green agenda ‘smog loving’ is not resorting to abuse?

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            You keep confusing renewable and polluting. Biomass which is 30% of German renewable capacity, and a lot more of renewable, generation is just a co2 accounting trick when measured next to coal.

            Like

      • 170
        Anonymous says:

        I assume this is a Chernobyl reference. That was the political system greens are so keen on and want to adopt here that caused that, not the underlying technology.

        Like

        • 181
          Being Green or Being Beijing says:

          Thanks. I’m relieved to hear there was no radioactivity involved in the Chernobyl disaster.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            It’s no wonder you buy the green scam wholesale, your reading comprehension skills are somewhat lacking.

            Like

  4. 4
    John Tandy says:

    The man is a moron……

    Like

    • 18
      lojolondon says:

      He has the best finance in the world available for his hair-brained schemes – OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY.
      Plus, he will never be held accountable for wasting it but if he is then he can say, like Crash Gordon “we were trying to save the world”.

      Like

  5. 5
    Capt Apollo says:

    to paraphrase “will no one rid us of this turbulent energy secretary?”

    Like

  6. 6
    Ellie-Mae (9) says:

    Is he trying to buy unemployment stats with green energy?

    Or……

    Like

  7. 7
    Jake says:

    If green energy is so wonderful why do these companies need government support? you would think that financial backers would be falling over themselves to invest………………………………………….

    Like

  8. 8
    Me says:

    I like the two snow “men” ? picture

    Like

  9. 9
    lolathebeautiful says:

    Bet you won’t get that analysis on the BBC…

    Like

  10. 10
    Up his arsehole says:

    Davey always looks like he has a severe wind problem

    Like

  11. 11
  12. 12
    lolathebeautiful says:

    ..Also you could subtract from the ‘jobs created’ to all those jobs destroyed by the same policy. See Say.

    Like

    • 41
      táxpáyér says:

      Yep taxes on comparative advantage (sales and income) will destroy far more jobs than any money raised can create.
      THEN the money is used to pay people not to work.

      Like

  13. 13
    Independent Scotland says:

    Ah, the new politics.

    Scrap the green crap in favour of new green crap.

    Rebrand it as “secure energy investment” or some bollocks.

    Russia are shitting themselves.

    Like

  14. 14
    Sarah Millington says:

    Utterly sick to death of this idiot & his eco-loonery.

    What about the 20,000 British pensioners who died in fuel poverty in the UK last year?

    What about the 12% added eco taxes every family & pensioner in the UK pays to subsidise the renewables scam?

    It is a fact that not one wind turbine, biomass plant or solar array would be built anywhere if it were not for the taxpayer subsidy.

    These are not industries – they are rent seeking con artists & their idiot liberal enablers.

    Vote UKIP.

    Like

    • 108
      Observant says:

      +1

      Like

    • 144
      Keitho says:

      Bingo buddy.

      Like

    • 151
      Being Green or Being Beijing says:

      20,000 died – possibly – of hypothermia. In a lot of cases the problem is dementia, not the cost of fuel.

      The answer is to ensure that all old people’s properties are fully insulated.

      Like

      • 172
        Anonymous says:

        There is no such thing in practice as “fully insulated” and the law of diminishing returns sets in very quickly. The need to provide adequate ventilation as mandated by building regulations means you still need heat.

        Like

        • 197
          Being Green or Being Beijing says:

          Of course you do. But the facts are (as you can easily establish if you investigate it) the UK has one of the worst records on insulation of homes in Europe, particular in relation to other cold N. European countries.

          Like

  15. 16
    Bright Spark says:

    Can’t we just take Ed Davey to the arctic circle, bury him 6′ deep in the tundra and save everyone a packet till global warming thaws him out?

    Like

  16. 17
    Prime Minister David Cameron says:

    I repeat for the hard of hearing

    BUMSEX

    Like

    • 43
      Doth protest too much methinks says:

      The fact that you keep posting about this all day suggests you think about gay sex quite a lot.

      Like

  17. 19
    John Prescott says:

    I want massage with a happy ending.

    Like

  18. 20
    nell says:

    I confess I dislike eddavey quite as much as I disliked chrishuhne and I’m utterly bored and fed up with the climate change/green power scam that they keep wittering on about.

    Like

    • 26
      Charlatan Watch says:

      I have never met him, but apparently he is a pal of Vince Cable’s and just as dull. Most of these green libdem guys seem to be marxists trying to disguise themselves by wearing suits and pretending to be socially tolerant. They make sure they live as far away as possible from poor people however, especially the white working classes.

      Like

    • 27
      Spot on says:

      +1

      Like

    • 38
      FFS says:

      Nell, do you realize how utterly inane and bizarre you seem when you insist on typing people’s names as one long name? You’re able to use the space bar between other words. Is this some sort of private joke with yourself or do you think it’s the height of comedy to type eddavey or chrishunhe instead of ed davey and chris huhne?

      Like

      • 46
        Reader says:

        I had not noticed that about her posts. Now that I have, I will wonder why it matters. Can you explain that?

        Like

      • 50
        nell says:

        To bother with caps and spaces is simply to give these people more time than they are worth.

        Please feel free not to read my comments if they irritate your sensitive nature.

        Like

        • 65
          FFS says:

          I thought as much. You think that somehow you’re really sticking it to them by not capitalising their names? Dear oh dear. Yeah, that’s where we went wrong. If only more people had written tonyblair and gordonbrown, we might have been spared 13 years of Labour. Forget the RAF, Churchill should’ve just sent a telegram to Germany saying “We hate you adolfhitler” and the Nazis would’ve been crushed right there and then.

          Like

          • nell says:

            LOL!

            Like

          • Ockham's Razor says:

            To be fair, she does not capitalise her own name either. Idiosyncratic but not harmful. I fear you may be getting overexcited about something of no consequence which is a pity because you can be quite bright.

            Like

      • 69
        M­a­­­­q­bo­­ul says:

        You are a precious little thing – the spacebarnazi no less.

        Like

  19. 22
    Charlatan Watch says:

    Ed Davey: Just another snake wind salesman

    Like

  20. 23
    Foolish environmentalist politician watch says:

    Is this the Ed Davey who pays Land owners to cover oxygen producing, co2 absorbing, food producing green fields with black panels containing hazardous substances mined at great environmental costs?

    Like

  21. 24
    Nigel Evans says:

    Happy St George’s Day, upon which auspicious feast we welcome and celebrate all Palestinian migrants to this fair country.

    Like

  22. 25
    Ockham's Razor says:

    300bn MW could not light up a single brain cell in his head, the resistance is so great.

    Vey Dead (2,5)

    Like

  23. 28
    Greenpiss says:

    If every Eco lefty gave his wealth to a chav his house to an immigrant and buggered off to Africa to give proper poor people the benefit of their wisdom maybe things would be better.
    But as Lennon pointed out most left wingers are dreamers not doers.

    Like

  24. 31
    Lord Steele knighted Cyril Smith says:

    He at least looks as stupid as he is.

    Suprised he is allowed out on his own.

    Like

  25. 34
    Blame the captain not the meteorological officer. says:

    Every man and his dog agrees that Davey is stark raving bonkers, his energy policies make the rich richer and the poor poorer and are destroying the environment.

    But this does not explain why Dave just shrugs his shoulders and say there is nowt he can do because it is part of the coalition agreement, that HE made.

    Like

  26. 35
    Gordon Brown (does a lot of work for charity) says:

    Green Jobs for Green people

    Like

  27. 42
    A Freezing Pensioner says:

    This is an anti-senior citizen policy, we old folk need global warming, how else can we heat our homes??

    Like

  28. 48
    This is the dawning of the age of fuckwittery 1996- says:

    Who was the TIT on the Today programme trying to have us believe that more expensive energy bills will result in cheaper energy bills ???? Was that Davey ?

    Like

  29. 49
    Mornington Crescent says:

    Ah, “biomass”. This is the “biomass” burning that generates a fraction of the energy per tonne compared with coal. Better still, we need such huge quantities of “biomass” to keep Drax going that we have to ship it in from Canada – on huge oil-burning ships.

    But, hey, it’s “green” coz Ed Davey says so.

    Like

    • 86
      Anonymous says:

      The greens had a problem. Get rid of coal fired power stations and you eliminate the need for the endless stream of coal trains from port to power station (also the reason for not building new power stations with deep water access and moving the energy as electricity which is the sensible way to do it).

      Greens love trains because they lend themselves so well to public ownership and unionised staffing, and the passenger ones are so lovely and collectivist.

      Hence biomass which requires even more trains. Makes rail freight look like a significant means of transport, never mind that it’s pointless.

      Like

  30. 54
    Unbalanced Views says:

    I don’t understand this nonsense. Instead of creating a new technology from scratch, it would have been far cheaper to simply mine the vast remaining coal deposits and burn them in power stations, spending the money on reducing polution – the only winners here are the people making the turbines

    As a footnote, wind energy isn’t ‘free’ each turbine takes energy from the system, the logical conclusion is they are actually slowing down the rotation of the earth – I may apply for a grant to study this effect, i’m sure I could spin it out for a decade or three

    Like

    • 68
      Surr Nob Skelpoff says:

      Bird mincers

      Like

    • 87
      Anonymous says:

      Funny how we must apply the precautionary principal to every possible indirect effect of fossil fuels, but suggest that wind power which directly extracts energy from the weather systems and disrupts airflows might just be an issue and greens just laugh and say it can’t possibly be significant.

      Like

      • 90
        well i never says:

        I thought lots of migrating birds were killed by wind turbines.

        Like

        • 126
          Anonymous says:

          Well, yes, but it’s not as if the watermelons in the RSPB are going to jeopardise their green gravy train by making an issue of it.

          Like

        • 167
          Being Green or Being Beijing says:

          Far more are killed by high buildings, like those in Toronto on migratory routes.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Buildings don’t move. Are you suggesting a significant number of birds just fly straight into solid objects? If it’s a glass problem that would be easily solved if it was significant, rotating blades not so much.

            Like

          • Being Green or Being Beijing says:

            Yes I am suggesting precisely that.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/world/americas/casualties-of-torontos-urban-skies.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

            The above reference indicates one researcher found 500 (!!!) dead birds killed in Toronto on just ONE day. Bird deaths in the vicinity of turbines are few and far between.

            The death toll is horrendous. A still building gives little warning to the bird of trouble ahead unlike a wind turbine, whose blades will – if in operation – cause air turbulence.

            Like

          • The Critic says:

            The issue with birds is that in bad weather they fly lower and can be confused by lights. America has a large land mass and more urbanisation, therefore increasing the probability of bird fatalities. The researcher who found 500 birds dead in Toronto – did they conclusively prove the cause of death, or did they just assume a cause?

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            There was a school which switched off its wind turbine because the pupils were upset by the daily carnage in the playground. Buildings are not known for doing this to any great extent.

            Like

          • Being Green or Being Beijing says:

            As usual – no citation for these absurd claims. No wind turbine based in a school could possibly cause “daily carnage”.

            Like

  31. 55
    Surr Nob Skelpoff says:

    Davey is a Jive Ass Liar.
    The so called “Greenhouse Effect” is Victorian “science” that was dispensed with long ago along with Arsenic wallpaper as a “bad idea”. Certain controlling interests wanted an excuse to tax the masses and the rehashed Greenhouse Effect was found to be the perfect means for taking advantage of the scientific naivety of the masses . In fact, the Greenhouse Effect as envisaged by the stovepipe hat wearing, lamb chop sideburned ‘expert’ of that day does not actually exist. If you are unconvinced, look up the published paper by Gerhard Gerlich and Ralf D. Tscheuschner “Falsification Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within The Frame Of Physics”

    Like

  32. 56
    Ah! McCanntime says:

    ‘tecs off to Portugal. More predictable than the first cuckoo of Spring.

    Like

    • 67
      Ockham's Razor says:

      The paridae start to come out there around now.

      This will turn into a ceremonial event, lasting for centuries and where the original purpose will be forgotten.

      It could in time even become a religion.

      Like

  33. 58
    The grining thing says:

    Look, what’s important is MONEY.

    Like

  34. 59
    Badger says:

    Well one thing that sure as shit won’t help the environment is increasing the countries population to the extent you have to build new houses all over the countryside.

    Like

  35. 60
    Ah! says:

    Name an honest politician

    Like

  36. 64
    Robin Hood says:

    Ned Davey, methinks thou hast this ‘rob the rich, give to the poor’ thing utterly arse-about-face.

    Like

  37. 75
    More idiocy from the House of Loons says:

    Our money thrown to the wind.
    It would be laughable if it were not so preposterously amateur.

    Like

  38. 77
    Ah! the old ones are the best says:

    Jamaica?

    Possibly. I couldn’t understand a word she said.

    Like

    • 84
      Maria Miller says:

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Like

    • 121
      Jamaica me crazy says:

      A classic tale told in a revisionist way.it’s what the BBC does best and why HBO drama’s are better.

      Like

    • 127
      Anonymous says:

      The ability to actually do the job doesn’t rate highly in the BBCs recruitment process. Much more important that you have the right ethnic background, sexual orientation and political views.

      Hence the technical standard of their output is crap.

      Like

      • 139
        Dangerous Brian says:

        I thought it was only me, they are all actually speaking a strange kind of Swahili, impossible to understand with as much action as a turgid ditch.
        Utter cr*p and typical of the shi*e the Beeb continues to pollute the airwaves with.
        Close it down now or make it pay its own way.

        Like

  39. 79
    Joe Public says:

    “Davey said today that the new contracts for renewable projects will support 8,500 green jobs. At £1.4 billion, that amounts to £167,000 per green job.”

    Note that that’s “support”, NOT ‘create’, green jobs.

    Implicitly, there are NO new jobs created; only jobs exported to not-so-green countries.

    Like

    • 91
      C O (Ξ7q1) says:

      It makes absolutely no sense to subsidize uneconomic means of production unless you are hoping to profit from a development in research and development related to parts of industry subsidized.

      The windmills are not even manufactured in the UK.

      A definition of insanity is decommissioning and converting coal fired power stations at a time when the wholesale price of coal is coming down – a trend that will be continuing for many years to come.

      Also complete lunacy is investing in this unreliable technology when wholesale gas is shortly to be coming down in price.

      Like in the US, the wind farms will end up as rusting graveyards testament to a period of insanity which will have left bitter-sweet memories in the national consciousness.

      Like

      • 111
        Bill Quango MP says:

        wind farms will end up as rusting graveyards testament to a period of insanity which will have the left with bitter-sweet memories in the national consciousness.

        slightly more accurate this way.

        Like

        • 140
          Dangerous Brian says:

          Surely “leave the left with bitter sweet memories and full pockets of taxpayers cash”

          Like

  40. 81
    Caroline Lucas says:

    Right I’ll take the plane you take the stinky old ship and we’ll meet up in the Arctic to protest against pollution.

    Like

    • 96
      Caroline Lucas, Woman from the 80s. says:

      Doesn’t it make you so nostalgic? Arctic Roll. Dungerees. Noel Edmonds Swapshop. Avocado bathtubs. Atomkraft Nein Danke. That was another one. In the days when being green was almost … fashionable. Almost.

      Like

      • 101
        Caroline Lucas, Woman from the 80s wishing she was from cutting edge of the70s. says:

        Oh dear. 10 years too late? Never mind. No-one will notice in Brighton. Do you like my new hairdo?

        Like

  41. 89
    Socialism is theft says:

    The USA reduced emissions and energy bills (now half the price of most European bills) by fracking. Of course that is far too obvious for these European mutton-heads.

    Like

    • 98
      C O (Ξ7q1) says:

      The US subsidized the costs of developing the technology with Federal grants etc.

      A hit to the tax payer in the short term, with very big benefits for the tax payer (and the corporates who were involved) over the long term.

      UK energy policy is the diametric opposite.

      Direction should have been changed after the R’ussian’s kindly pointed out that the Univ East Angl!a research was nothing more than a propaganda exercise a few years back.

      Incidentally, the US who have also invested much in looking to see if global warming exists, is a problem, and if it is caused by human activity and what can be done about it, have broadly concluded that there is nothing to worry about.

      That is a scientific determination, not a corporate or political one.

      In the UK / EU, where there are vested economic, political and social interests in alternative energy and its use in inhibiting economic growth, the same failed narrative is still being sold: It is a fraud.

      Like

    • 99
      Anonymous says:

      Wankers more like. Why is it that it’s Britain’s fuckheads who always fall for this bullshit?

      Like

  42. 97
    All MP's are scum says:

    Vote Conservative get idiot boy.

    Like

  43. 100
    Anon. says:

    Like

  44. 102

    In Kent’s Thanet we have an offshore windfarm
    Built by Danes
    Owned by Swedes
    21 permanent jobs created
    Cost of each job = £3m per annum per job
    Yet, the government won’t spend £200m to keep 100s of jobs at Manston, up the road

    Like

    • 112
      sometime I wonder, then I think who cares says:

      Have a look at the AIS off Rhyl flats count the ships and get a profile of what they are and find out how many new windmills they are installing, plus find out about the new DC cable coming down the Irish sea going to Flint gas fired power station which is supplied with gas from the gas fields in the Irish sea.

      Like

    • 210
      Being Green or Being Beijing says:

      Well it’s clear you know nothing about cost accounting then.

      You’re ascribing the capital cost to a revenue charge.

      Most of the £3m is to be ascribed to the cost of the “fuel” i.e. creating the infrastructure that allows you to tap nature’s bounty. You wouldn’t include the cost of oil in the cost of creating an oil refinery worker’s job. Or perhaps you would – in which case you get similarly high figures.

      Like

  45. 104
    catesby says:

    Don’t forget that Scameron is a fully signed up member of the Marxoid/’Green’ agenda.

    Like

  46. 106
    sometime I wonder, then I think who cares says:

    Can’t understand why Davy has a job in government can’t he apply for a job on planet Zog, it would be cheaper for the taxpayer, it would be cheaper for the taxpayer if he was just sacked.

    Like

  47. 107
    Ed of Winterfell says:

    if we don’t subsidise renewables 100% the ice wall will melt and the whitewalkers will descend onto England and kill us all!

    Like

    • 114
      Eddard 'Stark Raving' of Islingtion says:

      Winter is coming. It will last 5 long years. 5 years when the tears freeze on the very faces of the working people and only benefit chavs can afford to heat their houses.

      I’m going to make damned sure of it.

      Like

  48. 110
    geordieboy says:

    Guido please find some dirt on that arsehole Davey. There must me something as it seems that all Lib Dems are closet sexual deviants.

    Like

    • 120
      The Thames says:

      Ask him what he was told about Rennard and in particular, whether he is aware of anyone else who did not complain about Rennard but who could have done.

      Like

  49. 113
    Aled Jones says:

    I see you’ve recycled that old picture of Gordon Brown fucking the country.

    Like

  50. 124
    BB says:

    General point right, but remember it’s a subsidy from our power bills to the ecoloon owners of these expensive power generators, rather than direct from the taxpayer directly (a decision taken by one Ed Miliband esq). Then the loony left (i.e. those same ecoloons, by and large) have the nerve to complain about fuel poverty and a cost of living crisis! When they’ve put the prices up!!!

    Couldn’t make it up…

    Like

  51. 125
    Four-eyed English Genius says:

    Is it just me or is the moron Ed Davey beginning to look more and more like the late great Mel Smith?

    When Mel Smith talked bollox, it was highly amusing. When Davey does the same it is most definitely not!

    Like

  52. 133
    UKIP 4 ALL says:

    Building useless windmills and other green rubbish is an EU diktat, our liberal government would happily spend double or triple the insane amount they are spending in order to comply with their masters wishes.

    As far as the liberal regime is concerned money is no object, the only thing that matters is total obedience to their EU masters. They dont care that CO2 is not responsible for the tiny warming of the 20th century and they dont care how many millions of real jobs are killed

    The green insanity will end when our supreme rulers in Brussels say it ends OR UKIP forms the next government. If you want just one good reason to vote UKIP it would be that UKIP will kill off the green fraud from day one in office.

    Like

  53. 135
    Winston says:

    Vote LibLabCon for more of the same.

    Like

  54. 137
    FairBobby says:

    Can Daft Davey be stopped? What does it take to remove some one who is so manifestly stupid? Daft Davey is partly responsible for the parlous state of the UK energy industry and if allowed will bring to country to Bankruptcy. Wind turbines are hugely expensive and are functionally useless. Biomass is a con: it destroys thousands of acres of forest and habitat on the grounds that it is ‘renewable’. It takes a couple of minutes to burn a tree and at least eighty years to grow. Natural forests in North AND South America are being destroyed. Other biomass comes from crops grown on land that should be used for food production. There are millions of starving people for God’s Sake. Daft Davey is closing down perfectly good power stations while India and China are opening four new coal power stations every week. We are sitting on huge coal reserves, are closing are last two mines and we import more than 40 million tons a year. We would e better off with Alice in Wonderland

    Like

  55. 138
    Anonymous says:

    Ed Davey…..what a plonker!

    Like

  56. 141
    MandyPickleSniffer says:

    So….apart from endless messages like the above, all very well-written and articulate, what can we do that will actually make a difference? Cos you can’t possibly believe that Ed & his Lib-Dem minions are reading any of this, and even if they are they certainly won’t change their ways.

    So…how do we get rid of these completely useless scaremongering global warming scam artists? How do we keep our countryside from getting inundated by these horribly inefficient wind farms? How do we kick out all these hippy dippy sandal-wearing Libtards before they crush our country into oblivion? How do we lance this boil before it pulls a Richard E Grant move and takes over the whole body like it did in How to Get Ahead in Advertising?

    Like

    • 145
      Jagman 84 says:

      Just don’t vote for them! Shun anybody who does. Make use of what democracy we still have left.

      Like

  57. 146
    Charlie says:

    How long will turbines work offshore before needing repair and how is going to do it, hoe are they going to do do it and how much will it cost?

    Like

    • 148
      John Bellingham says:

      Vestas, the Danish manufacturer say that maintenance will be 1.5-1.8% of capital cost, yet their own installs in Denmark have historically been 3%-6%. They appear not to have noticed that as machinery ages its maintenance costs rise until they reach a point where it is more economical to scrap and replace. Maintenance is required from installation until the end of the equipment’s working life.
      Replacement of the turbine, rotor blades and gearbox would be, typically, 15% – 20% of capital cost at current prices. A windmill is planned to have a working life of 20 years, during which it would most likely only be in actual operation for 60% of the time.

      Like

      • 152
        Being Green or Being Beijing says:

        A. No energy system is in operation 100% of the time, except in the minds of the pro-smog minority.

        B. “Historically”. Quite. The design of wind turbines has improved incredibly over the years. How about giving a citation for your absurd

        “Studies done in Denmark on the 5000 wind turbines installed in the country since 1975 has demonstrated that each new generations of turbines has had lower repair and maintenance costs than the previous generation.”

        http://www.windmeasurementinternational.com/wind-turbines/om-turbines.php

        Still, why bother about facts while having a rant?

        C. You are forgetting that a high proportion of the cost of a wind generator is the tower, the concrete base, the service road and the connection to the grid.
        All those will still be there in 20 years, thus making the investment much cheaper for the replacement turbine.

        D. Wind and solar are already becoming competitive in many parts of the world. The price drop for solar has been spectacular.

        Like

        • 188
          The Critic says:

          It is a mathematically provable fact that you cannot replace oil, coal, and natural gas with windmills, solar panels, and biofuels. Hobbits may be able to live poetically, generating energy from the wind, the sun, and the soil. Real human beings living in an industrialized civilization need highly concentrated nonrenewable energy sources to survive. Renewable energy schemes other than hydroelectric and geothermal power are resource hogs that take up huge amounts of space while providing very little usable energy in return.

          Contrary to popular belief, solar, wind, wave energy, and biofuel schemes are not “energy efficient,” and their ultra-high cost is an accurate measurement of that inherent inefficiency.

          If they were efficient they would cost less than using fossil fuels, not dramatically more than using fossil fuels.

          Like

          • Being Green or Being Beijing says:

            It’s not a mathematically provable fact at all. It might be mathematically provable that it would be very expensive but it wouldn’t be impossible.

            You can already store energy in various forms, most obviously pumped hydro and if necessary you can build yourself pumped hydro offshore.

            Development in grid management techniques means you can increase use of renewables within a continental grid system.

            Like

        • 191
          nk810 says:

          Oh do shut up. Windmills are useless, inefficient, pointless wastes of resources.

          They are useless at producing energy, slaughter animals and pollte horribly. It is time to blow them all up and save the hundreds of billions that would be wasted on their perpetuation thanks to the infatuation by the moronic ‘green’.

          Here’s a challenge: go without the results of energy for a day. Just 24 hours. Aside from no tea, that means no flushing the toilet – or going indoors, as bricks are made from energy. No food unless it comes out of the ground and even then, not unless you have your own well.

          Try it. No energy or proceeds of it for 24 hours. Within 3 you’ll want water, and at that point come back and beg forgiveness for your monumental crass hubristic stupidity.

          Like

          • Being Green or Being Beijing says:

            Hysterical rant completely unrelated to reality.

            Where do we see successful adoption of renewable energy? Basket cases like Denmark, Germany, and Iceland.

            I’ve not intention of going without energy. Why should I? But I am quite happy to invest in green energy through taxation to secure cheap clean energy, which makes the UK proudly energy independent of other countries. It’s no different from the way we invested in our motorway system through taxation to secure the huge benefits of a cheap and efficient road travel.

            Like

  58. 147
    Am I on the right page? says:

    We should harness the power of the Tesseract!

    Like

  59. 154
    Anonymous says:

    Davy is a worthless utter twat pissing our cash up the wall while the last few mines go tits up.

    Like

  60. 156
    Graham says:

    Another useless overpaid wanker.

    Like

    • 157
      Being Green or Being Beijing says:

      High standard of debate on here tonight.

      Like

      • 195
        Anonymous says:

        Yeah, somebody keeps pasting in swathes of the sort of green bollocks that gets them drooling on Guardian CiF while the friendly staff delete anything vaguely off message.

        Like

  61. 176
    Bitterr&Twisted says:

    Davey has the intellect of a blown lightbulb.
    What a tosser.

    Like

  62. 183

    Drax power station is built upon billions of tonnes of coal, directly underneath, yet whole forests are felled in North America and shipped thousands of miles on vessels powered by tonnes of bunker oil, which has a higher calorific value than the wood chips themselves.

    In which Universe and on what Planet does this make sense ?

    Like

  63. 189
    Anonymous says:

    “New Green Projects to Cost Taxpayer £1.4 Billion a Year”
    But if they power a new industrial (renewable) revolution. Well worth the price.

    Like

  64. 192
    Anonymous says:

    Slopping a patient’s blood from one arm to the other and spilling much of it is not going to heal the patient.

    Subsidy creates no new markets. It just destroys real wealth. If you don’t understand this, see here: http://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/keynesian-glass-cartoon.jpg

    Like

    • 206
      Being Green or Being Beijing says:

      Tell that to the Koreans, Japanese and Chinese who have all subsidised industries.

      Like

  65. 200
    Being Green or Being Beijing says:

    A last point – green energy is politically neutral. In the last American presidential elections, 6 our of 7 of the right wing Republican candidates gave very strong support to green energy.

    Like

  66. 203
    Anonymous says:

    We certainly exported the transformers from Didcot Power Station – to a new coal power station being built in Germany.

    Like

  67. 208
    can work won't work says:

    Why are we covering our green field sites with useless wind mills and solar farms, when we should be growing biomass to fuel our converted coal power stations (instead, we buy our wood from America)… bizarre

    Like

    • 209
      Being Green or Being Beijing says:

      Biomass is very expensive, that’s why.

      I don’t think we are covering huge swathes of land with PV panels. In a country like the UK, the most sensible solution will probably be to ensure that a high proportion of our roof space has PV panelling installed.

      Like

  68. 211

    Green energy is what all country’s should be doing,manly for air quality then again it’s putting people to work.
    It’s kinda a win win isn’t it?

    Like


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Owen Jones says:

We also need Zil lanes.


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