March 27th, 2014

Clegg’s “Facts” Turn Out to Be Fiction

Former Clegg spinmeister Olly Grender had no answer when told by Brillo that, despite the LibDem leader’s assurances, the House of Commons library did not back him up on his claim that only 7% of UK law was made in Brussels. Their figure is actually between 15% and 50%. If you’re going to sell yourself on “leaving the rhetoric aside for a minute and sticking to the facts”, telling porkies might not be the best way to go about it…


139 Comments

  1. 1
    Lord Owen Jones of The Cottage says:

    Farage is setting terms of debate: the Ukip-isation of politics continues.

    Like

    • 10
      Astronomer says:

      Bercow’s home planet discovered: Speaker’s Planet

      Like

    • 68
      The Tit in No 10 says:

      I’m a CleggManiac – but you may call me ‘Dave’

      Like

    • 100
      Myfanwy says:

      “Their figure is actually between 15% and 50%” Well Fawkesy that is still a lot less than 75%, what would be interesting, what is added to the dictats from EU so that the paperwork is increased

      Like

      • 106
        paul icini says:

        The EU reckons it’s 75%, their vice president, what’s her face, has said so publicly.

        Like

      • 114
        Anonymous says:

        Talking of liars heres one I prepared earlier

        Like

      • 116
        Right Full Rudder says:

        I wonder what the figure is when you include directives. Why did the vice president of the EU Commission say it was 70%? How did the German government come up with a figure of 85% of their laws?

        Like

        • 119
          Dougal MacDougal of that ilk says:

          The German President said 84% of Federal Laws, that is national law across the whole of Germany. Of course, our Parliament legislates a lot in local areas and is mainly legislating in England as the other nations have their own Parliaments.

          The percentage is not important – it’s what the laws are, how affected we all are by them and if they need to be imposed from Brussels. For example, a law that required us all to jump around on one leg would be more significant than one which requires shears to be kept in a locked cupboard. It really depends what they are.

          Like

      • 129
        Mr Neddy says:

        The House of Commons pamphlet was written by rabid Europhiles in the F&CO. It is baised in favour of the EU so misleading.

        The real figure for all laws, rules, directives, regulations and guidelines which affect the UK population which come from Brussels is close to 70% and rising.

        As a new tranche of EU legislation comes on stream from the Lisbon Treaty this year, that figure is going to go up. Some people mention the channel 4 fact check on this.

        Channel 4’s fact check used a disingenuous statistical trick to reduce the number by including all the laws on the statute book since about 1980. That waters down the number with all those earlier years when the EU did not even exist, and when we used to have a veto over them.

        If we check how many of our laws are implemented which come from the EU, per year, we see it is much closer to Farage’s figure than Clegg’s, whose figure of 7% is very very misleading and a blatant lie.

        Like

    • 101
      Llareggub says:

      Little Nicky, it turns out, was bullshitting about the EU. Well, fuck me sideways with a blackthorn stick. Who’d have guessed that a federast was talking out of his arse?

      Like

      • 127
        Bloke says:

        He was fucking good at the bullshit EU spiel though – jobs, ‘clout’, pulling up the drawbridge. Your average drongo would’ve swallowed it whole.

        Like

      • 138
        Tom Catesby says:

        Really confirms, if it was necessary, what a lying piece of shit he is.

        Like

    • 112
      Anonymous says:

      Come all the electorate throughout the UK
      It’s time to ignore what the LIBLABCON say
      Lets face it these parties have all had their day
      Our politics need rearranging
      So go out and vote UKIP lets sweep them away
      For the times they are a changing

      Not one of them listens to our point of view
      They’d sooner give our cash to the EU
      So lets kick them out and try something new
      We can’t afford this lot remaining
      Political rethink is long overdue
      For the times they are a changing

      They lied about Lisbon and promised a vote
      There all Europhiles and in the same boat
      Their treachery just bring a lump to my throat
      As each other they just keep blaming
      So send them a message and let them take note
      That the times they are a changing

      We will no longer tolerate lies being told
      Tax breaks for the rich but more tax for the old
      Ruled from the EU and our birthrights sold
      They ignore us when we are complaining
      If we all vote UKIP their out in the cold
      For the times they all need changing

      Like

      • 123
        Infidel says:

        That’s very good. Is it yours? Someone should record that and send it to UKIP. Top marks!!

        Like

    • 128
      RightwinggitRedux says:

      “No hotlinking please. “

      Like

  2. 2
    Sarah Millington says:

    Lib / Lab / Con – BBC, MSM – all part of the problem.

    Ukip, on last nights evidence & reaction, is the answer.

    Like

    • 20
      The cream always... says:

      In times of crisis the real leaders always rise to the top.

      Like

      • 35
        Lembit Opik says:

        So here I am!

        Like

        • 63
          Socialism is theft says:

          Power to the people. Let the people decide. The Westminster crooks trust the public as little as the public trust them.

          Like

          • Lembit Opik says:

            Excuse me, if you don’t mind, I was just about to explain to these good people my outstanding credentials for national leadership. You wait your turn, you big bully. Or go and get your own forum, and then you can say what you like. And stop pointing at me like that. And stop thinking about me in an uncharitable way. And don’t keep inhaling and exhaling in that very insulting manner. Or I shall do something you won’t enjoy, like the Man of Destiny I am!

            Now, any questions?

            Like

        • 80
          Right Full Rudder says:

          He said “rise to the top” not “shag minor celebrities”.

          Like

      • 36
        Losers says:

        I agree!
        Watch Clegg and Alexander ‘rise to the top’ in this video.
        Men of principle? Men of honour?
        Not even men it seems.

        Like

    • 103
      Myfanwy says:

      Sarah, don’t forget that upright and banner carrier for the right and Geedoes employer is part of the MSM

      Like

  3. 3
    Ohthisbloodypc says:

    What about the three million plane spotters who will be thrown into a greek jail and left to rot, if Nigel Farage pulls up the drawbridge and ditches the Magna Carta that Nick Clegg personally negotiated with Europe.

    Is that what you want? That’s what will happen.

    And that’s a fact.

    Like

  4. 4
    Sharpening My Pitchfork says:

    Oily Grinder is an unaccountable member of the House of Lords, placed into a plum job at our expense as a reward for toadying services.

    These people need to be stripped from the public sector payroll immediately.

    Like

  5. 5
    Calamity Clegg, Chief Cockroach says:

    The LibDem motto:

    If at first you don’t deceive lie, lie again.

    Like

  6. 6
    Stats Guru says:

    A recent study by the Political Science Department of the University of Tunbridge Wells shows that only 32% of statistics cited from reports can actually be found in those reports, 28% of the reports cited do not even exist and 16% of the institutions that supposedly produced the reports do not exist either.

    Like

  7. 9
    Kevin Bollox says:

    Clegg is just a fucking liar, he could not even answer questions directly last night. Farage creamed him. Yet still the media kommentariat are trying to support Clegg.

    Like

  8. 12
    Billy Big says:

    Did no-one notice that the woman from the LibDems was a total grooter.

    Nigel gets my vote to keep grooters like that off TV.

    Like

  9. 13
    DtP says:

    So Cleggy had full use of civil servants to fact check debate prep and still couldn’t get it right? How tediously inevitable that senior civil servants are totally inept.

    Like

  10. 14
    lojolondon says:

    Maybe the numbers came from an unpaid intern, working for Clegg in government who found himself being pulled into LimpDim party work and gave them crappy figures to ensure payback?

    Like

  11. 15
    Dodgy D. Laws says:

    Nick is as honest as my expenses claims.

    Like

    • 43
      Dan D. Lion says:

      And as much of an original thinker as a Speak-Your-Weight machine.

      Like

    • 47
      £40k iI could have thieved says:

      Does your boyfriend know this David?
      I ask you as I know that you are an oh-so-coy homosexulaist

      Like

  12. 16
    Anonymous says:

    Oh Calamity!Did everyone enjoy watching the spinners explain what a great victory Calamity had last night.Aunty will be very nervous about their boy getting done over again in next week’s debate.

    Like

  13. 19
    nell. says:

    So what do we need 900 “lords” for?

    Like

  14. 22
    Persona non grata says:

    Expect UAF and Nope not hate are sharpening their knives on Establishment orders right now.

    Like

  15. 24

    Let us not forget the enormous amount of civil service time and energy that is diverted into implementing EU legislation and programmes

    Like

    • 98
      Businessman says:

      And the time and money spent by businesses trying to comply with gold-plated EU legislation.

      Like

  16. 26
    Anonymous says:

    Widely predicted that once Clegg’s figures came under any scrutiny they would quickly unravel. And so it came to pass…

    MSM still claiming that Clegg won – pity the great unwashed aren’t falling into line! Wonder what their next move to skewer Farage will be?

    Like

    • 54
      jgm2 says:

      Most people, myself included, didn’t watch it so the only news they have is how it is reported.

      If it’s reported as ‘Farage Thrashes Euro-Apologist Clegg’ then they’ll think to themselves ‘That Farage is a real winner’. If it’s reported as ‘Glegg trounces fascist Farage’ then they’ll thing ‘Good old Clegg, we don’t want his sort’.

      This is where the BBC comes in and this is why it matters so much that it is infested with bedwetter apologists.

      It is the constant ‘Multiculturality is enriching, racists are bad, immigrants are wonderful, racism is now a crime … drip drip …’ that conditions people so they moderate their perfectly understandable ire. ‘Perhaps it’s just me’ they think. You’ve seen the pictures of Blair back in 1996/7 travelling everywhere with a couple of double-decker buses of ‘spontaneous cheering crowd’. Pure Leni Riefenstahl. Even down to waking people up to have them ‘spontaneously’ line his triumphal march to Number 10.

      And the BBC went along with it. Framed the shots to make it look like a Nuremburg rally was spontaneously breaking out wherever he went.

      People, viewers, get caught up in the mood. It’s why propagandists do it and it’s why Labour loves the BBC.

      Like

      • 91
        Anonymous says:

        Tend to agree that those who can’t think for themselves will take their cue from the likes of the BBC.

        I think Farage made a mistake in agreeing to have the second debate on the BBC unless he’s insisted on some hard and fast ground rules. I expect them to slant the debate much more in Clegg’s favour especially on social, touchy feely issues. It was interesting that Clegg made such a big thing about the Brits being the original drafters of all the human rights guff since if Farage had been better briefed he’d have been able to counter that one of the original drafters – Maxwell Ffyfe ,was vehemently opposed to legalising homosexuality let alone redefining marriage (referring to it in terms that would have you locked up for a hate crime these days) and that the intention of the original drafters would never have been to extend its influence to the non deportation of murderers and other criminals. Trick missed there… Hope they have some counters for the next debate.

        In my view Clegg really lost it when he condescendingly made out that we’re incapable of making our own way in the world without the EU to hold our hands. That’s a meme that NF should milk for all it’s worth.

        Like

  17. 29
    Pint, please says:

    Nigel needs to beware dark forces, train travel overground only, watch out for umbrellas and polonium.

    Like

    • 34
      Bad Al C says:

      Stay away from the woods and pen-knives.

      Like

    • 55
      jgm2 says:

      Absolutely no solo walks in the countryside. This applies to Alex Salmond too. Although, to be fair, Alex doesn’t look like he could walk to the front door.

      Like

  18. 30
    nell. says:

    Farage? Facts? With his ‘70% of UK laws from the EU’ and ’29 million Romanians and Bulgarians’?

    Come come, they’re both talking horseshit

    Like

    • 40
      Viviane Reding says:

      Are you calling me a liar?

      Like

    • 67
      nell watch says:

      The only Govt study of every legal act was done by Germany’s Federal Justice Ministry. It put the figure at 84%.

      So an estimate of 70% for the UK seems a fair estimate to me.

      Romanian population -> 20.1 million
      Bulgarian population -> 7.3 million

      based on 2011 census data

      NO WHO IS TLAKING HORSESHIT?

      h**p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania
      h**p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria

      So with both countries have TFR rates > 2.1 then as an estimate of the combined populations of both countries today of 29 million seems fairly accurate to me.

      Like

  19. 32
    Information sharer says:

    I didn’t watch the debate. Might snatch a few minutes of it on the youtube app if I go for a dump. Life is short.

    Like

    • 102
      Kerb crawler says:

      Take your laptop with you and just go back a few threads from here and you can watch the whole thing in peace and quiet whilst you express your waste substances.

      Like

  20. 33
    Sherlock Holmes says:

    Much more than a 7% solution.

    Like

  21. 37
    Greychatter says:

    “EU laws account for between 15% and 50% according to House of Commons Library”.

    35% seems a wide margin of error – even the politicians don’t have a clue how much EU controls our Parliament.

    In Europe, but not controlled by Europe??

    Having had a job with the EU and educated at the Brugge school Nick Clegg’s job appears to me to get Britain totally controlled by the undemocratic Brussels elite. It showed last night.

    Vote for Nigel!!

    Like

  22. 38
    Norah in the Fox & Werrity says:

    If we leave the EU it will be an absolute disaster. Millions of jobs will be lost and we will have no influence anywhere in the world. Now we have some say in what goes on. We will be a small, isolated island with even higher unemployment due to the large companies which will leave. It is all well and good to complain about EU but it is ridiculous to cut off your nose to spite your face. The anti EU people are ill- informed and uneducated in the matter

    Like

    • 56

      You lost, Cleggy. Live with it.

      Like

    • 65
      Persona non grata says:

      Well being a small isolated Island didn’t stop us from discovering half the known world, inventing everything that makes any difference, and are still doing so. i.e. 3D printing. All we need is our EU shackles removed, our kids educated properly via Grammar schools, a patriotic Prime Minister ambitious for Britain and its native population, and we can soar again. Can’t wait for UKIP to get strong enough to usurp the current bunch of defeatist traitors, and give hope to suffering British kids. If you love Britain, if you believe Britain can be better, vote UKIP

      Like

    • 90
      Right Full Rudder says:

      We’re a rich trading nation with relationships worldwide, we’re Europe’s biggest market with 65 million car, TV and phone buying people and we’re a world financial centre. We can cope just fine. You are repeating lies.

      Like

    • 95
      Make the liblabcon history says:

      So in a nutshell, we must lose our sovereignty and our right to self determination all because business interests finds these things inconvenient and get in the way of profit.

      Well fcuk you.

      It’s only a matter of time before these same business interests find democracy itself an inconvenience.

      Like

      • 109
        Free Britain says:

        I resent the fact that some faceless EU super state is telling us that we, the people of Britain, are either in or out of Europe, we don’t need the invitation either way thanks very much, we are European as part of our birth right, the fact that I am English and European is not a commodity that can be given or removed, it simply *is*, it exists because we are born on the land of our fathers and mothers. I don’t remember giving away my inherited rights.

        The real argument is, should we allow a bunch of unelected bureaucrats to removal our sovereign rights to govern ourselves within our own borders without a fight, anything else is just smoke and mirrors.

        Like

    • 130
      Mr Neddy says:

      You vile, defeatist, pessimistic, cowardly “little Englander”. When people who hate our country, continuously run us down and cowardly claim that we are too small to survive internationally, it makes me sick.

      We have NO influence even in the EU and the EU is taking our place more and more at the top tables around the world. Being in the EU is making us irrelevant internationally.

      OUt of over 50 amendments we submitted to the EU Council, all of them were rejected. We have almost no say whatsoever.

      We would have much more trade with the 4.5 billion consumers in growing markets outside the EU and much more influence internationally outside the EU than in it.

      Like

    • 133
      (That's enough Eds, Ed!) says:

      Well, Nora, that was a really good comment supported by everyone, it seems……………………..NOT!

      Like

      • 136
        Probably shouldn't bother, but... says:

        Oh could it be that this is an echo chamber, rather than a forum for honest debate – such that most people with a contrary, or indeed, as I have, a more nuanced and pragmatic view, will rarely choose to dip their toe in.

        My view on this is that an economically connected world that Clegg is right about clout, and that rights of free movement apply to you too. Over time this tends to be well balanced, and it is notable that more well developed countries in CEE have hardly emigrated to the UK; you don’t tend to find many Czechs and Slovenians in the UK. And as RO and BG become wealthier they will find Western Europe less attractive too – and even with them the UK is not the draw for historical and cultural factors that IT is.

        Where Farage has a point is that there is, at least in the short term, a social impact that needs to be carefully managed, but that is a question of domestic policy that would not be addressed via Brexit – if we were outside the EU and part of the EEA/EFTA there would still be free movement, and most EU law would still apply.

        Like

  23. 39
    Benn'd Over says:

    The question is: will any poor people be invited to the wake at his £4 million mansion in Holland Park?

    Crowds have gathered in Westminster to pay their last respects to Tony Benn, whose funeral service has been taking place yards from the House of Commons. Banner-wielding trade unionists, anti-war campaigners and other well-wishers burst into applause as the funeral cortege arrived at the church. His body lay in rest before the funeral service in the Palace of Westminster’s Chapel of St Mary Undercroft. He was only the second politician to be granted the honour after Baroness Thatcher.

    Like

  24. 42
    Nick Clegg says:

    7% is exactly right, you just need to read the small print which says I might be lying like a complete bastard

    Like

    • 48
      What a calamity says:

      You’re sorry
      You’re sorry
      You’re so, so sorry

      Like

    • 83
      Gee Whizz says:

      Library states laws originating from EC between 15 and 50%?
      Even they cannot get it right, they must have used an immigrant researcher from Romania.
      2 out of 10 seems to be their accuracy score.

      Like

  25. 45
    Calamity Clegg says:

    I know I lied, but I can always say sorry the next day.

    Like

  26. 46
    Anonymous says:

    Keep tugging that forelock, Farage cares not a shit about the people outside his Fag & Cravat gang

    Like

  27. 49
    Calamity Clegg says:

    Like

  28. 51
    Anonymous says:

    Wonder what 7% Clegg will come up with as a “winner” next week?

    Like

    • 73
      Nick Clegg says:

      If we leave the EU we will all lose our jobs, starve to death and the planet will burn from English-made climate change. And that’s a fact.

      Like

  29. 53
    Anon. says:

    #NastyLibDems.

    Like

    • 64

      Clegg has been wrapped in cotton-wool all his life, Farage has actually done something with his life. Gaining life-experience ages a man.

      Like

      • 74
        Nick Clegg says:

        Farage has worked for a living.

        Like

        • 97
          Persona non grata says:

          Someone let slip last night that the air-conditioning wasn’t functioning properly, only on Farage’s side though. Go figure.

          Like

      • 137
        Probably shouldn't bother, but... says:

        Quite right, Dulwich educated, city trader…oh no wait. I suppose it does age a man to perfect the act that he has though. Perhaps somewhere in his attic there is a painting of him looking like Mr Clegg.

        Like

    • 81
      Gerbil 7 says:

      I know which one works the hardest and it isn’t liar Clegg.
      Now shut up.

      Like

    • 88
      If you are going to go ad hominem, GO for the man says:

      Clegg has the shiftiness and baby-face of a child molester.

      Any one else surprised he used to work for Leon Brittan?

      Like

    • 134
      (That's enough Eds, Ed!) says:

      Probably because Nige has actually worked for a living!

      Like

  30. 58
    David Aarononvitch says:

    I didn’t watch the debate but Clegg was the clear winner!

    Like

  31. 59
    Anonymous says:

    Farage and UKIP are worse than the Republicans in the US. EU aside, the want to sell state assets and return to a prejudiced cultural debate that has no place in today’s UK, with a range of the most bizarre, non-sensical policies in the world. A party that had to ditch all it’s policies because they were based on the most stupid of principles (voucher system NHS, flat level of income tax for everyone, and even more wacky ones than that). If you think Farage was speaking on behalf of you of anyone you know you’re delusional, this man and his racist, ultra-Conservative party get no where other than my lies, lies and more lies, they don’t speak for freedom, they don’t speak for anything other than racist, neo-con, libertarianism, the likes of which most people have laughed at on the other side of the Atlantic for years and years. Pity they can’t see it when it’s being shoved in their faces over here

    Like

  32. 60
    Dan Hodges says:

    Clegg was the winner, and Miliband the big loser

    Like

    • 107
      Mr Tony says:

      Hodges – come here will you.

      I’ve had a build up of knobcheese – suck it off, there’s a good fellow.

      Like

  33. 61
    Quality Of Today's Front Bench says:

    In other news, Anna Soubry does NOT look mad. Her drained white face doesn’t shudder continuously as she speaks. Her feverish eyes don’t stare alarmingly in an odd direction. It’s all an optical illusion caused by left-wing television cameras.

    Like

    • 87
      Right Full Rudder says:

      She’s been re-framed. A lot of Common Purpose’s NLP victims suffer such effects.

      Like

  34. 70
    Sheffield says:

    Bye bye Cleggy boy… Not long now!

    Like

  35. 78
    Black Country Tory says:

    Never mind all that. Far more interesting is that Tommy Watson’s mistress young Steph Peacock is on left leaning Channel 4’s political slumber tonight moaning about “cost of living” in posh Halesowen, where the middle class GMB employed Unite backed red princess is standing as Labour candidate against the far more superior self-made businessman Tory MP James Morris.

    Despite there being another round of falling inflation and booming revived economy locally in the West Midlands, mouthpiece robot Ms Peacock is going to argue everyone is worse off since the 2010 and will then appeal for everyone to trust Ed Miliband’s party to put it all right agai, wwith great policies such as bankrupting energy firms and abolishing the “bedroom tax” for lazy Labour voters!

    At this point, James Morris has not been asked to take part or even for a comment!

    Like

  36. 84
    Oily Grinder says:

    Er, er, er what I do know is that Nick won – he said so himself.

    Like

  37. 92
    Harriet Harperson says:

    Wow, the spivvy little scrotums show their contempt for us yet again.

    Like

  38. 113
    tigerowl says:

    Facts eh. Wrong eh? So were farages. You going to question them then?

    Like

  39. 117
    tigerowl says:

    Here is a suggestion for the BBC debate next week, there must be Fact Check available to shout out every time numpty and Muppet use wrong facts. Then we will – some hope – get a real debate. But can it stick to the EU debate. A referendum will not allow the bigots and racist to vote to keep out other people from this country.
    Loved farage when he said there are 450million Europeans who are entitled to live here. Well. There are 56 million Brits who are entitled to live in Europe. What a stupid point he made. Are 450 million going to come to a miserable little island full of racists, bigots, homophobes, sexists like UKIP and their supporters? I don’t think so.

    Like

  40. 121
    MacGuffin says:

    That Olly Grender is a truly hideous dude. And why does he speak with such a feminine voice?

    Like

  41. 122
    Cockroach Nick says:

    I can survive anything!

    Like

  42. 124
    Socialism = Starvation says:

    Lib Dem councillor and magistrate on gun control

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-26764022

    Like

  43. 131
    Alan Calder says:

    Clegg is dead in water and Farage can’t swim.

    Like


Seen Elsewhere

Moral Bankruptcy of the BBC | David Keighley
UKIP’s ‘Starsky and Hutch’ | Total Politics
Innocent Sun Journo Just Doing Her Job | Sun
Boris Sent Up North | Times
The Only Way to Mend the EU | Leo McKinstry
Northern Labour Tearing Party Apart | David Aaronovitch
Osborne is Son of Brown | Peter Oborne
Uber Needs to Mind Its Manners | CapX
Sun Victory in Court | MediaGuido
UKIP Gains Coming at Labour’s Expense | Elections Etc
Farage’s Migrant Muddle | Indy


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Tony Blair threatens Ed:

“If you had a strong political lead that was combining the politics of aspiration with the politics of compassion, I still think that’s where you could get a substantial majority…  If I ever do an interview on [the state of the Labour Party], it will have to be at length…”



Left on Left says:

The lefties are attacking because the panellist is a millionaire and lives in a London home worth upwards of two million. Someone had best tell them he’s called Ed Miliband.


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