December 12th, 2013

IPSA’s False Deal

IPSA have confirmed their recommendation to whack up MPs’ pay to £74,000. Their reforms in full:

  • A one-off uplift in salary to £74,000 in 2015, an increase of 9.26%, to address the historic shortfall. Thereafter, MPs’ pay will be linked to average earnings – if they go up, so will MPs’. If they don’t, neither will MPs’.
  • A new pension on a par with those in other parts of the public service, saving the taxpayer millions. Following public consultation on our proposals from earlier this year, we have decided to increase MPs’ pension contributions further, reducing the cost to the taxpayer even further.
  • Scrapping out-of-touch “resettlement payments” worth tens of thousands of pound per MP. These will be replaced with more modest loss-of-office payments, which will be available only to those who contest their seat and lose.
  • A tighter regime of business costs and expenses, including ending the provision for evening meals.

IPSA seem to be taking the approach that they have to come to some sort of deal with MPs; that if MPs agree not to fiddle their expenses, sign up to a more reasonable expenses regime, increase their contribution towards their gold-plated pensions and give up their resettlement payments, then they can have a pay rise. This is a false offer. There is absolutely nothing to stop IPSA toughening up on expenses and pensions and ditching the resettlement grant with no pay rise sweetener attached. The only ‘deal’ on the table should be that all these things happen without the condition of a pay rise…


107 Comments

  1. 1
    Reverse Pay Rise says:

    Try a pay reduction…And see how many MPs resign.

    • 10
      The new Messiah says:

      The simple truth is that nowadays most of their work is being done from Brussels by unelected bureaucrats who can fiddle their expenses to their hearts content.

    • 28
      dai broke says:

      they should be paying us!

      • 29
        dai farming says:

        they are!

        • 49
          Boris was right ! says:

          O/T

          This has huge consequences for our education policy.

          GCSE exam success is mapped out in DNA from birth, scientists find
          http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10511928/GCSE-exam-success-is-mapped-out-in-DNA-from-birth-scientists-find.html

          “A study of more than 11,000 identical and non-identical 16-year-old twins concluded that 60 per cent of the variation of GCSE results in English, maths and science was down to individual DNA.

          In contrast, just 29 per cent of the difference was attributable to shared environmental factors such as schools, neighbourhoods and households.”

          But are our politicians too thick to take it in. Throwing money at failing schools is not the answer if their intakes are from the lowere socio-economic groups.

          Boris was right to say what he did the other week.

          • rick says:

            The genetic component of intelligence was established even before Darwin. The Chinese have known it since forever. It used to be called eugenics. Very un-PC.

          • Suds says:

            Off topicish………….I just called Ed Milibands officet to ask a question about the management of the parliamentary pension fund. I was told that the matter was reviewed by IPSA which is a totally independent body. I pointed out that had nothing to do with the question I was asking. My point being that Hedge Funds manage money for MPs in their pension fund and Ed Miliband is happy to benefit from their services but puts them down as vermin in public. My MP replied to my question about managing the pension fund and confirmed Hedge Fund involvement having consulted with the trustees.
            Needless to say the lady who answered the phone at Ed Milibands office who did not understand what I was querying and had not been briefed that morning as it did not relate to IPSA, she put the phone down on me. Classy

    • 53
      ciconia says:

      New pension on a par with public service… anybody in the private sector getting deals like these?
      Let’s fund MP’s pay rises entirely from cost savings- fewer MPs and less expenses.
      No boundary reform; no pay rise.

    • 54
      Brown sets a good example says:

      Officially declare they shall have second jobs, but, but, whatever the job they take shall exclude them from speaking/voting on that debate.

      So work for a Union that means no voting or speaking etc for them.
      Work for a defence company ditto.

      Look at Brown, doing very nicely and even better keeping out of our lives. Pity he was not like that 2001-2010 plus Bank of England off-shot FSA.

      • 68
        ciconia says:

        No problem with MPs having another job- the electorate can decide if he/she is a good constituency MP, and a power of recall should be available to us for that purpose.
        I suspect career politicians are a bigger problem than those with other jobs. We need people with some experience outside politics, rather than ideology nuts, left or right.

    • 80
      Alphons says:

      “Following public consultation on our proposals from earlier this year, we have decided to increase MPs’ pension contributions further, reducing the cost to the taxpayer even further.”

      However it is disguised it is still being funded by the tax payer.

      • 102
        ciconia says:

        Find the details by searching for lgp2014. The employer’s costs are c. 14% of salary.
        For now.
        The existing scheme, now unsustainable despite reform 2008, closes April 2014.
        MPs will join 4,5 million in these public service schemes.

  2. 2
    Keith Robinson says:

    And if that happens we will continue to get ‘monkeys’. Look to the opportunity for future change; deserves better from you.

    • 7
      WRVS says:

      Utter Bollocks.

      For the work they do MPs are over paid.

      Money received has nothing to do with quality given.

      • 18
        lolwut says:

        “for the work they do”

        Because they’re all work-shy chancers who are where they are because of blagging and charisma, rather than talent.

        Pay more, replace the old guard with people with some sort of talent and, in theory, we could get our money’s worth

        IT’s like the old joke about spending half the amount on a pair of shoes, but they only last 6 months. You get what you pay for.

        • 46
          Cinna says:

          I think the total MP wage bill should remain the same. Fund any pay increase by reducing the overall number of MPs, there are are far, far to many for a country this size.

          When the Scots sod off in 2014 we can reduce the numbers again.

        • 97

          ARE YOU THEREBY SUGGESTING THAT A FULL VALUE PAIR OF SHOES ARE ONLY EXPECTED TO LAST A YEAR ?

          WHERE HAS THE CREED OF BUILT IN OBSOLESCENCE BROUGHT US TO ?

          I HAVE ARMCHAIRS AND UTILITY FURNITURE BOUGHT BY MY PARENTS ON THEIR MARRIAGE IN 1946 TWO YEARS BEFORE MY BIRTH WHICH IS STILL VALIANTLY SERVING ME ITS PURPOSE IF SOMEWHAT CAREWORN .

          IF I HAD JUNKED IT ALL AND BOUGHT FROM G PLAN OR CYRIL LORD OR DFS IN THE 80 s I WOULD NOW BE ON MY THIRD COSTLY REPLACEMENTS ….

      • 56
        Total Bankers says:

        Sounds very much like the piggy banks. By the way – what have the Royal Bank of Scotland been up to lately?

    • 9
      Niles Cooke says:

      The pay levels as they are attract blaghards and shady egotists, a pay cut is needed.

  3. 3
    UKIP or bust says:

    Vast swathes of the wages in the public sector need slashing, including the vile Bbbc.

    • 12
      Death by a thousand cuts says:

      Don’t hold your breath !

    • 78
      Anonymous says:

      So, is UKIP going to start addressing the waste of 20 billion-plus of tax-payer’s money on useless WMD subs? And, instead of cutting back the NHS, will they promise to stop wasting money on pointless, illegal and bloody wars?

  4. 4
    MPs are over worked and under paid. Ho Ho Ho says:
  5. 5
    Genghiz the kahn says:

    55,756 people signed up against the pay rise for the MPs.

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44225

  6. 6
    No good boyo says:

    Pensions equality you say.

    I thought these fuckers get their pensions the minute they lose office .

    • 14
      Hessa says:

      Does Laws get his pension and pay off from his short lived spell as a Minister ?

      Does Huhne still get a package notwithstanding he should never really have entered this Parliament.

      As Bob Dylan once said the answer is blowing in the wind.

    • 15
      Tanya Hyde says:

      And don’t forget their platinum plated pensions…that is what is the at the heart of this bread and circus sideshow…

      It’s all just for distraction.

      The irresponsibility of public sector workers has been laid bare by an MP who really knows about taxpayer-funded excess
      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jun/17/francis-maude-rhodium-plated-pensions

      “Let’s begin with a parlour game. You’ll have heard much about “gold-plated” public sector pensions this week, but can you guess the discrete group of public sector employees whose pensions are not so much gold-plated, or even platinum-plated, as rhodium-plated – metaphorically clad in Earth’s most precious metal? For reasons unclear, but believed to be rooted in our radioactive levels of national self-loathing, this group has not been minced by the rightwing press this week.
      And so to a mere taster of their perks. Just 15 years’ work could build up a pension of £24,000, a recent FT assessment noted, whereas private sector employees would have to amass £700,000 to generate the same income when they retire at 65. Taxpayers contribute three times more to this group’s pensions than its members do themselves. And should they die, their spouses receive a lump sum of four times their annual salary, and an annual income of five-eighths of their pension.”

  7. 8
    poorman says:

    …and yet they blame us for living on handouts. You couldn’t make it up.

  8. 13
    The Hills Have Eyes comes true says:

    The filthy and severely deformed offspring of a horrifying incest cult whose members bred together for generations have been discovered in a remote farming community in Australia.

    Apparently unknown to the 2,000 people with whom they shared their fertile valley township in New South Wales, at least 40 members of the reclusive Colt family raised four generations of inbred children in one of the country’s worst ever cases of child abuse.

    According to the Sydney Daily Telegraph – which published details of New South Wales Children’s Court’s judgement on the family – the case only came to light when authorities were informed that children living in a network of huts in the valley did not attend school.

    The subsequent New South Wales Police and Community Services investigation found deformed and disabled children living in squalor; unable to take care of themselves and lacking knowledge of basic hygiene, such as how to clean their teeth or use toilet paper.

    Many of the children were suffering from severe health problems brought on by inbreeding, with a number diagnosed with homozygosity deformations – mutations caused by inheriting identical genes from both parents.

    Hardly any were capable of intelligible speech, many were deaf and/or blind, and those that could understand what investigators were saying were painfully shy due to spending their entire lives without communicating with anyone other their immediate family members.

    The name of the valley in which the family lived has been kept secret to avoid identifying the victims of child abuse, and the members have been given pseudonyms for the same reason. The surname Colt is not the real family name.

    Despite this, New South Wales Children’s Court is understood to have released details of the case as it felt the world had to hear about one of Australia’s worst ever instances of incest.

    The family is believed to trace back to the children’s great-grandparents, who were brother and sister. The incestuous siblings had a number of children, with these children raising another generation children of offspring among themselves. This third generation also chose to inbreed, giving birth to the children recently found living in squalor in the valley.

    In total, at least 40 inbred people were believed to have been born in the network of huts – which were not served with any electricity or running water.

    • 27
      Sunderland is a Labour ghetto thats why its shyte says:

      Were they Aboriginals?

      • 33
        Casual Observer 5 says:

        With a name like ‘Colt’ and the practices they were engaged in, highly likely not.

        The Abo’s generally don’t go in for incest as they know it leads to weak offspring, and is against their cultural norms.

        • 83
          Fink 'bout tit, yeah? says:

          I suppose that’s why they’ve been so successful. Superior cultural norms.

          If you bothered to read the pertinent post correctly you would see that ‘Colt’ is a pseudonym, to protect the identity of the victims. And race.

      • 39
        Fishy says:

        No, I think they were the BBC’s Australian Bureau.

    • 32
      Consanguineous Marriages in Londonistan says:

      “The subsequent New South Wales Police and Community Services investigation found deformed and disabled children living in squalor; unable to take care of themselves and lacking knowledge of basic hygiene, such as how to clean their teeth or use toilet paper.”

      Sounds like some places in Londonistan.

  9. 16
    an awkward bastard says:

    Once a fiddler always a fiddler.

    • 25
      A flying seagull says:

      Exacly but what bothered me is the peculiar case of Dr Fox;

      Is he getting a pension. We were told at the time that he was as pure as the driven snow so why on earth did he resign;

      Then there is of course the grace and favor accommodate which comes with the job.

      When that Socialist and long time horse gambler had the job and resigned he was in no hurry to move out.

  10. 20
    Casual Observer 5 says:

    Increasing MPs pay in order for them to not fiddle expenses ?

    That is not the way the law is supposed to work.

    Perhaps instead they should consider lowering taxes in order to dis-incentivize avoidance and evasion.

    Now the tax idea will work, the idea IPSA are putting forward is a form of extortion.

    • 35
      Doctor Mick says:

      This is like the justification for corruption in the Third World: they only accept backhanders because they are not paid a living wage. Conveniently ignoring all those who do not. The argument goes that if they are paid well then they will not steal or accept bribes because they have something to lose. It kind of makes sense except that greedy people are greedy no matter how much they have. Look at Mugabe, the more he stole, the more he wanted. Or in the interests of racial balance, lest I am accused of bias to whitey, look at Putin; corrupt and stinking rich and, er, white.

      • 42
        Casual Observer 5 says:

        For corruption examples: Tony Blair.

        That corruption is endemic in visible ethnics also, any criticism of corruption cannot be considered a rac!st issue as it seems to transcend rac!al boundaries. Only a lying lefty would try to make such a case against your statement.

        The real difference is that the UK is meant to be morally superior and comply with English law in spirit and deed. It is similar to the places you mention, but only in that the UK is sinking to those levels.

        • 88
          Doctor Mick says:

          As someone who has worked in may different countries I despair to see how easily anyone becomes corrupt when there’s goodies on offer and Brits are as bad as anyone. What we do have, however, is a rule of law which makes it more difficult to transgress in our country (and the Bribery Act is a brave attempt to extend that reach overseas) but I agree, the UK is apparently beginning to sink.

          I do hope it is only apparently thanks to the transparency provided by the internet and the army of users who are on the case.

  11. 23
  12. 24
    Sunderland is a Labour ghetto thats why its shyte says:

    All of this came about because of the Telegraph expose,one of the greatest pieces of investigative journalism in modern times,which exposed the vast majority of MPS as thieving bastards.As far as I am concerned the salary they recieve now is too much for the work they do,as another poster pointed out we are ruled by Brussels not Westminster.Give them the rise but end all other expenses except for a claim of no more than 1200 a month for their London rents,

    • 31
      Del Boy says:

      There are 650 of them MPs right.

      Most of them go around telling you how little they claim.

      But get the full figure for expense claims paid by us and divide that by 650 and things don’t add up.

  13. 26
    edwin sneer-nicely says:

    they get a one fortieth of salary for each year as MP: that is £33k for 20 years “service”. Once described as the most generous pension set-up in Europe.

  14. 34
    The Critic says:

    Yes, the price of shite is rising. Who else gets a pay rise to address a historic shortfall? A shortfall in what? Morals? Intellect? Common Sense? Connection with Reality? Certainly not money.

    IPSA have missed two calculations out. The Performance Related Index. Set by Joe Public at minus 500 currently. And the EU Does This Already Index at minus 1000 and rising.

    Happy for them to repay what they owe us by foregoing future pay rises.

    The only way this lot will stop troughing is if we take the the trough away. They are incapable of self -restraint.They are not even repentent when they go to prison.

    • 41
      Fuck the LibLabCon says:

      It’s just an occupational hazard for many of them.

    • 45
      Casual Observer 5 says:

      Custodial sentencing is very clearly not a deterrent for these individuals.

      The only deterrent will be a capital sentence, and even that is not completely guaranteed.

      Similar issues exist in the financial sector. The problem is that the risk-reward is so skewed towards reward, and the people involved do not consider custodial sentence to be a strong enough reason to adjust their ethics.

      The fundamental problem is that Government has screwed up monetary policy making basic cost of living so expensive, and actual inflation way above stated RPI, that they feel they need to increase their salaries to keep up.

      Deeper, so many of them are brainwashed Marxists of the consumer variety, that they cannot help but spend money frivolously, and do not know how to repair the economy.

      • 98
        The Critic says:

        That is the problem. No-one is ever guilty. Who went down for the Maxwell pensions scandal? PFI? Pecipice Bonds? Even the guy who was sent down for the Guinness shares scandal was released suffering from the signs of Alzheimer’s disease…..and went on to have a career as a business consultant.

        Blair is till walking the streets (albeit very plush ones) Brown is lecturing others on good government, FFS.

        Piss on your own doorsteps I say to them, not mine

  15. 37
    Mr Angry says:

    This is far too serious a matter for Guido to be making a joke out of .

    We are being ripped off big time.

    Millitwit asks a question ,Cameron gives a smarmy answer about being concerned and still the money goes.

    What is on the menu in the Commons canteen at our expense still?

  16. 38
    Shooty* says:

    “Look”, said IPSA, “It’s very simple: if we don’t recommend a pay rise, they’ll fire us and employ someone who will. So you see, we really had no choice, and the inevitable result will be the same, so just go with it, yeah?”

  17. 40
    Anonymous says:

    The cost of MP’s should be a fixed budget (apart of which should be salaries – which includes all expenses, short money, number 10 running costs, speakers flat etc…).

    The conservative idea to cut the cost of MP’s by 10% (by canning 60 of them) should be the starting point. A better one would be to cut the cost by 20%, maybe link the budget to MP’s to the budget for the police.

    Then the MP’s each year should get as a bonus – where the pool is made up of 50% of the under spend of the MP’s budget. It would seem they need an incentive to spend our money wisely.

    • 57
      Joe Public says:

      650 should be reduced to a MAXIMUM of 500 for this small island.

    • 77
      Cynical-old-bag says:

      They don’t need any incentives. The only incentive they need is the one telling them how to stripe the taxpayers.

      Very lucrative, that one.

  18. 43
    Hang all MPs says:

    And they can still massively increase household income by employing, at our expense, spouses, partners, children, siblings, parents, uncles & aunts and cronies with no open competition, no check on what they do for their money and benefit from the extra pension this will eventuality bring in?

  19. 44
    Genghiz the kahn says:

    photo/1a

    Best man for the job…£1 for the work…independent…experienced…banker…one of us…

  20. 48
    Winnie Brown says:
    • 50
      Reset says:

      There you go proof that MPs are useless. Any self respecting husband would have switched his wife’s phone off and on again and had it working in seconds. But not Gordon.

      • 61
        That's mens work says:

        Sorting out the electrical work around the house is men’s work. Typical Brown imposes on his wife to make do, sort it out.

        Perhaps he won’t get out of bed unless he is paid £££££££ grand which so far has been everyday over the last few years.

    • 58
      The new Messiah says:

      Looks like Gordon’s been throwing phones around again.

    • 76
      Cynical-old-bag says:

      Paid for, no doubt, from the whacking payment awarded to Gordon recently.

  21. 59
    MakeDemocracyWork says:

    Ballot papers for the next general election should include a referendum on whether MPs should receive a pay rise, and how much.

    Simple, add a box in which voters can insert the percentage (including none, or minus, if they wish) on proposed pay rise.

    It could be a feature for all future elections.

    • 92
      I reckon says:

      If used properly, this idea would need umpteen extra boxes for referenda – eg BBC, EU, Scotland, – oh too many to mention.

    • 93
      Anonymous says:

      Talking about making DemocracyWork – at work – what about a ballot on a 9.26% wage cut for the boss?

  22. 66
    MandyPickleSniffer says:

    What’s the LibDem view on this?

    Oh wait, they need to first see which way the Tories are leaning so they can then come out against it, after which they can brag & boast about how obstructionist they’ve been and how many Tory policies they’ve been able to block!

    Two-faced ungrateful incompetent Huhnes…they have no clue what damage they’re doing to their own credibility by their disgraceful behaviour. Who would ever want to join forces with such a bunch of back-stabbing wankers ever again?

  23. 69
    Caste-IronDave says:

    Meantime the OBR (quoted by Telegraph) says Brit contributions to EU will rise £10 billion over five years.

    Didn’t Dave boast he’d persuaded the EU to cut budget?

    With negotiating skills like that, I can only imagine his talks to win a better deal as part of his pre-referendum spiel will prove shambolic.

  24. 70
    Hamish says:

    Ipsa dixit. Must be true.

  25. 71
    Nemesis says:

    Don’t these people at IPSA realise it isn’t about whether it will cost the taxpayers any more but a matter of decent fairness. If an independent body were to look at wages for all other workers, nurses etc, no doubt it would award much more than the measly one percent it is at present limited to.

  26. 74
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    IPSA seem to be taking the approach that they have to come to some sort of deal with MPs; that if MPs agree not to fiddle their expenses, sign up to a more reasonable expenses regime, increase their contribution towards their gold-plated pensions and give up their resettlement payments, then they can have a pay rise.

    This is a joke! How can they agree not to fiddle their expenses? It’s accepted as part of the job, now, isn’t it. We can’t trust them as far as we can throw them.

  27. 79
    Courvoisier says:

    “When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men, they create for themselves in the course of time, a legal system that authorises it, and a moral code that glorifies it.”

    Political economist
    Frédéric Bastiat 1850.

  28. 81
    Disgusted of Neasden says:

    A good thing to reduce the scope of the resettlement grant. Less MPs who want to quit hanging about until the next election – G Brown, E Joyce, L Sandys …

    It also gives an incumbent MP who wants to retire to LOSE an election. May give constituency parties an incentive to de-select …

    However, it would be even better to scrap it altogether.

    • 82
      Disgusted of Neasden says:

      sorry … an incentive to LOSE …

      • 90
        Sunderland is a Labour ghetto thats why its shyte says:

        Sadly as this prposal does not come into effect until after the next GE Brown,Joyce,Sandys and straw amongst others will get the pay off

  29. 94
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    How about introducing Pay for Performance?

    Can’t see their pay being increased for some considerable time.

  30. 95
    JessTheDog says:

    I’m willing to suspend my outrage and accept that IPSA has done a thorough and independent job in their assessment.

    However, to increase political salaries during an economic downturn, with everyone else enduring a freeze, is utterly indefensible. Shelve the increase until the mid or end of the next parliament and take the rest of the perks away right now.

  31. 100
    Dogsbody says:

    What exactly is the “historic shortfall” in salary given the large increase against average national salary over the past 30 years or so?

  32. 101

    Streamlined pensions, toughing up on expenses and resettlement grants and NO pay rise. There are so many dishonourables making money on the side, thats not the beige envelopes in the back of taxis: Carry on the good fight.

  33. 104
    Ordinary Bloke says:

    So long as you have the vested interest of a”Knight” as the boss of IPSA you will get crooked policy and plenty of pay rises!!

    He will always be looking over his shoulder for the next step up the called “Honours” list. Their self serving ego thrives on these baubles, he will be looking for ermine!

    An ordinary bloke, like me, should be the head of IPSA not one of the “Old Boys” network!

  34. 107
    Anonymous says:

    Personally, I want my MP paid well, to attract the best candidate & ensure that he/she does a sterling job. If they are then found fiddling expenses, it should mean de facto jail time – 6 months minimum.


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Rod Liddle on the loony UN sexism special rapporteur:

“There is more sexism in Britain than in any other country in the world, according to a mad woman who has been sent here by the United Nations.

Rashida Manjoo is a part-time professor of law at Cape Town University in the totally non-sexist country of South Africa (otherwise known as Rape Capital Of The World).

Mrs Magoo has been wandering around with her notebook and is appalled by the sexist “boys’ club” culture here, apparently.

I don’t doubt we still have sexism in the UK. But is it worse than in, say, Saudi Arabia, d’you think, honey-lamb? Or about 175 other countries? Get a grip, you doolally old bat.”



orkneylad says:

What’s he been doing FFS, mining bitcoins?


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