December 7th, 2013

When Maggie Told Botha to Free Nelson Mandela


When on Thursday night this blog put up a picture of Margaret Thatcher and Nelson Mandela together the abuse on Twitter from some quarters was more self righteous than Guido can recall ever before. It was also wrong.

The myth that Thatcher (and her admirers) supported apartheid is one of the core beliefs of the Comrade Blimpish left. Charles Moore touched on it in The Telegraph this morning. It is a false charge and Nelson Mandela himself was in no doubt – saying of Margaret Thatcher in July 1990 only a few months after his release: “She is an enemy of apartheid… We have much to thank her for.”

Mandela knew that for years behind the scenes she had been arguing with the South African apartheid regime for his release. Written evidence of her lobbying only came to light decades later when the ANC government released a now declassified secret 1985 letter from Margaret Thatcher to P. W. Botha. Comrade Blimp-types just won’t accept the fact that she did more to encourage the end of apartheid than Paul Weller and Billy Bragg. They’re wrong.

Read the entire letter here


  1. 1
    Margaret says:

    Well, we all make mistakes. Certainly one did not wish to see South Africa in the condition into which it’s now getting.

  2. 2
    Guido's Shady Handlers says:

    Well done Guido. Reporting our airbrushing of history like a good little drone. No need to worry about those photos we have of you, safely locked away until we next need you. Why not enjoy your weekend with the children, you have done your duty.

  3. 3
    Andrew says:

    And just what condition would South Africa be in now if the NP had tried to keep apartheid going?

  4. 4
    Toxic Labour for spongers, parasites, immigrants and criminals says:

    So it was Maggie that was ultimately responsible for the survival of Saint Mandela. Never mind you can’t get it right all the time!

  5. 5
    Historian says:

    Remember the fat lady…

  6. 6

    The voices in your head getting louder?

  7. 7
    BBC News Editor says:

    We will not be including this.

  8. 8
    Koba says:

    The bbc will ignore this as only Labour’s view is considered noteworthy, war crimes excepted.

  9. 9
    Lord Stansted says:

    You tell us.

  10. 10
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    Maggie like Churchill, Vaclav Havel, that chap in Poland, Mandela, Gorbachev and Ronald Reagan were head and shoulders above any international leaders, left or right, that we had in the 20th Century. Sadly there seem to be no such impressive political figures in the 21st century.

  11. 11

    Better than at present

  12. 12
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    I give her credit, but it’s also true many Tories then and now were venomous in their attitude and called him a terrorist whilst at the same time supporting mass murdering dictator Pinochet.

  13. 13
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    Stop wanking to pictures of Pinochet.

  14. 14
    Anonymous says:

    Ah yes the Fascist Labour Party.

  15. 15
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    the problem with the beeb is it’s news feed includes nothing other than a load of unsubstantiated suppositions.

    If they ever get around to selling off bits of the beeb commercially I doubt there is any serious news operator anywhere in the world who would want to buy it’s discredited news sector!

  16. 16
    Andy Coulson's monkey says:

    You are right to point out the glorious and totally unblemished attitude the Tories had towards Mandela and South Africa. I mean it’s not like they opposed sanctions [unlike the most of the rest of the world] and no Piety was ever seen wearing a hand Mandela t shirt, nor did any Tory ever call him a terrorist.

    Hang on didn’t Thatcher call the ANC terrorists? Didn’t the Tories often make hateful statements about him? Didn’t the Tories oppose sanctions? Mmmmm……

  17. 17
    Leige Asper says:

    As a Manchester lad, I know nothing about Mandella. Who is he?

  18. 18
    Roland Rat says:

    End of cold war, end of socialism and Mandela freed; its no coincidence it all occurred under Maggie’s reign !

    The left are more ideologically bankrupt than i first thought.

  19. 19
    Nothing sums that up better than this Stranglers gem... says:

  20. 20
    Hand Shandier says:

    take it easy on the crack pipe

  21. 21
    Elvis says:

    And how many Dictators’ A***s have Brown, Blair and Fondlebum licked?

  22. 22
    Fishy says:

    The BBC have been agitating against Thatcher since Mandela’s death, repeating the lie that Thatcher opposed sanctions…when in fact she imposed them on Arms, fuel and nuclear.

    Abbott on Newsnight last night made a fool of herself, when confronted by Lord Renwick, who was one of those at the heart of what was going on and knew the hard ball that Thatcher was playing with Botha. All Abbott could do was respond with that patronising smile of hers (the one she gave to Brillo when confronted by her hypocrisy over her son’s education).

    Abbott is typical of the ‘know fuck-all’ lefties – they only believe that Thatcher supported apartheid, because they wanted to be true.

  23. 23
    Intellectual Pygmy says:

    Mandela seemed to like her. But then what the fuck we he know eh?

  24. 24
    i don't n eed no doctor says:

    Abbott will continue to smear Thatcher and the conservatives because it suits her racist agenda.
    Abbott does for racism what Balls would do for the economy. Labour just don’t get it, and Miliband either isn’t allowed to or is just plain stupid.

  25. 25
    One Term Dave says:

    A great light has gone out of the world. They will say the same about me in 2015.

  26. 26
    Labour says:

    I love dictators

  27. 27
    i don't n eed no doctor says:

    Facts would mean proper unbiased journalism, something the BBC lacks.

  28. 28
    Bollockd Broadcasting Corporation says:

    We would like anybody anywhere in the world who has anything whatsoever to say to get in touch so that we can give you some screen time in our forthcoming Christmas Mandelathon.

  29. 29
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    that’s not nice!

  30. 30
    Slobberdown Meknob says:

    Our media is now focused on honoring the passing Of Nelson Mandela. Granted the passing of any life deserves respect but the praises being heaped is mythical.. They seem intent on creating an archetype which never actually existed in real life. Is the media remembering the tyrants who Mandela aligned himself with? Do they report his involvement in terrorism or the songs he sang saying we must kill the white man? Is there any remembrance of bombs or allegiances with Islamists, Marxists, anti-white racists and ruthless dictators? No one wants to hear about that. We, collectively, prefer instead to believe a myth about a man who brought peace to South Africa. (Really? How peaceful is it?) through non-violence and forgiveness. But is this lovely story actually true? Will you, reading these words, research it for yourself? Do any of us want to remove the warm and fuzzy blanket of the remembrance, of a figure who only exists in the collective imagination? Apartheid is always wrong. Racism, terrorism and any form of totalitarianism is just evil.. Mandela and his oppressors, sadly were two sides of the same coin. Sometimes the truth is just politically incorrect. I wish our schools actually taught history. If I am to mourn someone today, it will be a British serviceman, whose name we will never be told…. A man who died out of duty to a country that doesn’t openly honor him with the same respect and praise we heap upon someone deemed “newsworthy”, just so we can feel good and say we did.

  31. 31
    i don't n eed no doctor says:

    All African countries are corrupt and basically lawless. Prove me wrong.

  32. 32
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    Sadly you are so right. The biased beeb has become a laughing stock.

  33. 33
    Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells says:

    I made a point of banking with Barclays and eating Outspan oranges during apartheid as a show of solidarity with our people.

  34. 34
    A leftwit says:

    Just a Christmas Mandelathon! What about New Year too?

  35. 35
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    Where there is great poverty there is always corruption. Mandela did much for democracy in South Africa but as is always the way of things his job was not completed and sadly the ones who have come after him are reversing some of his work.

  36. 36

    Pinochet saved his country from years of communist oppression the first ever defeat they suffered , giving a glimmer of hope to millions in East Europe , when it seemed that the communists where invincible once in power.

  37. 37
    Nothing sums that up better than this Stranglers gem... says:

    You misunderstand. The lyrics back up your assertion.

  38. 38
    Fishy says:

    They imposed sanctions, but rejected those that would be likely to starve the poor and disadvantaged

  39. 39
    Blue Peter Goldfish says:

    BBC also say Lord Nelson was a warmongering fascist C*** and should have his column torn down :-)

  40. 40
    Tony Blair says:

    Those nine houses didn’t grow on trees, you know.

  41. 41

    Take a look at a Manc street map. There’s bound to be a Nelson Mandela Street somewhere.

  42. 42
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    Before the glorious multicultural revolution of 1997 information like this was well understood as facts, now sadly it’s just an opinion.

  43. 43
    Nemesis says:

    One letter? So now show all the others where she called NM a terrorist and the ANC a terrorist organisation. Thatcher would always bend to suit the mode of the moment. Anyway, the witch is dead so fuck her!

  44. 44
    Anon says:

    In 1986, I signed the “free Nelson Mandela” petition outside the South African embassy in Trafalgar Square not once, but twice!

    And I bought “Radio Africa” by Latin Quarter. On 12″ single.

    I’m not sure that was about apartheid, though.

    I am truly a hero of the Left. Give me 20 minutes and £2,000. And make sure the makeup assistant’s good – I need all the help I can get.

  45. 45
    Mr Literal says:

    Necrophilia may be fun, but not when the they’ve been dead for about 6 months.

    And cremated.

  46. 46
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    Well said.

  47. 47
    Anonymous says:

    He looks a lot like your next-door neighbors.

  48. 48

    “There’s no morality left, Good luck”

  49. 49
    Blue Peter Goldfish says:

    Banks and (perceived) morality never have been comfortable bedfellows as recent events have underlined, what ever happened to Jaffas?.

  50. 50
    Sense in spades says:


  51. 51
  52. 52
  53. 53
  54. 54
    Labour ruined Britain and now it's ConDem'd says:

    True, but it sounds a lot like Britain.

    Corruption: hey, you don’t think we really need a £50bn HS2 railway, do you? It’s just a nice big back-hander for Cameron; wait and see which construction company he ends up working for after 2015. And Gordon Brown making a fortune from the lecture circuit.. Who would pay for that? I bet the money can be traced back to the EU, as a big fat “thank you” for signing the Lisbon Treaty without holding a referendum.

    Lawlessness: Anyone can stroll into the UK and get ‘bennies’ and a council house, and the government is completely powerless to stop them. Any immigrant that breaks the law gets released on bail and disappears. That sounds pretty lawless to me.

  55. 55
    Product of a Labour Education says:

    Neilsun wun the battel ov trafvulgar an we put him on top of a colum so whys pepul dissing im like?

  56. 56
    The British media are cunts says:

    OK Gweedo, go tell the fucking MONGS at the BBC who were the worst fucking twats at peddling the myth that ‘Fachur’ opposed Mandela, they get forklifted Fartbott into the Newsnight studio to say so.

  57. 57
    The British media are cunts says:

    The BBC are the worst offenders.

  58. 58
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    hmm gordonbrown making a fortune? not sure about – he tried to sell a dinner with him for his funds – thought he’d make £thousands and struggled to make a few hundred the other day! Feel sorry for the poor blighter whose paid for the short straw!

  59. 59
    Scoop????? says:

    Will Hain apply to be President now? Lots of possibilities for claims for expenses, and he can hire his ol’ mum in the same role as he employed her in parliament, that’s if the old dear cn still lick stamps without her teeeth falling out.
    Come on Peter, you know that you want to, you orange skinned buffoon.

  60. 60
    The British media are cunts says:

    The BBC are fucking scum, every single one of them, the aids riddled fucking bastards.

  61. 61
    Anonymous says:

    A catchy title.

  62. 62
    Anonymous says:

    The left and in articulate the BBC paint Maggie as evil but she wasn’t. She resolved not only this countries problems after Labour left office she was a major force in S?Africa and on the sidelines solved the Cold War with a man we could do business with. When I stood at Maggies funeral and watched the antics of the left and most Labour supporters I knew she had not lived her life in vain. Anything that upsets the left twisted view of the world and their constant airbrushing of history is good by me.

    Remember Labour had the list drawn up do the most influential women in the world and could not even be bothered to name her.

  63. 63
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    abbott denigrates anyone who sends their children to independent schools and then ermm send her son to an independent school.

    These are not people you want to be listening to!

  64. 64
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    Indeed, in 1994 the same year Mandela took power the Hutu tribe killed 800,000 Tutsis in Rwanda. Similar tribal genocides have taken place in the Congo, Somalia, Ethiopia, Chad, Mali, Zimbabwe, Angola and many more African countries. Tribal savagery and genocide has always been a way of life for many Africans.

  65. 65
    Anonymous says:

    That is a typical left wing mental reaction. This is what actually happened as we that were there at the time know. It you that is the drone constantly evading the evidence and promoting your own incorrect version of events.
    Why do you do this? Because while the left , Labour were shouting at protests behind the scenes Magggie Thatcher and the Tories were solving the problem.

    Just like Major solved Ireland allowing Blair to step in like a puffed up messiah at the last second and claim it was him when it was no such thing

    I despise labour and the left

  66. 66
    Blue Peter Goldfish says:

    Was it Sally Bercow?.

  67. 67
    Tuoni says:

    You don’t seem to be on my list.
    Who the hell are you ?


  68. 68
    Wossy (god I'm so fucking funny, just hilarious me) says:

    I’ve already been booked, with Russell and Jo and Jack and 4 other unfunny comedians. We’re going to have a necklacing segment in the show where people ‘phone in and pledge cash to Winnie, and when the target is reached, she’ll ask her bodyguards to douse the flames.
    Fun innit?
    Down wiv de kids, me. OK, so I’m 53, but what the hell, right?

  69. 69
    Jimmy, c/o Hell says:

    Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it mate.

  70. 70
    An Inconvenient Truth says:

    Since Mandela came to power in South Africa has become a third world country.

    It went from being the safest country in Africa to being the rape and murder capital of the world. In Johannesburg, 5,000 people are murdered every year. Unemployment went from 5% in 1994 to 50% today. South Africa also has the largest number of people infected with HIV/AIDS in the world. In 2007, over 18% of adults, or 5,700,000 people had AIDS. In 2010, an estimated 280,000 died of AIDS.

    These are FACTS.

  71. 71
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    Well let’s be even handed here – it’s not just african nations who commit atrocities – h i t l e r and his henchmen did it too!.

    Lack of morality, decency or compassion is not confined to one nationality – it is present amongst all peoples although thankfully in a minority.

  72. 72
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    Did you? And who did you think your people were?

  73. 73

    We had the wrong type of leaves falling on our railway tracks some years back.

    You have now brought to light the wrong type of letter. It does not fit the socialist narrative as laid down by the Grauniad and slavishly followed by the BBC, the Labour movement and the TUC.

    Should these people ever find themselves in power again, this sort of behaviour would no doubt result in your incarceration, probably in the Tower.

  74. 74
    Joe says:

    Never heard of it.

  75. 75
    Facts says:

    She called the ANC a terrorist organisation which was true.
    It was vicious. NM was imprisoned before things got nasty. She never called NM a terrorist.

  76. 76
  77. 77
    RomaBob... says:

    Have I missed anything? Did someone die?

  78. 78
    Joe says:

    Since Mandela came to power in South Africa has become a third world country.

    It went from being the safest country in Africa to being the rαpe and murder capital of the world. In Johannesburg, 5,000 people are murdered every year. Unemployment went from 5% in 1994 to 50% today. South Africa also has the largest number of people infected with HIV/AIDS in the world. In 2007, over 18% of adults, or 5,700,000 people had AIDS. In 2010, an estimated 280,000 died of AIDS.

    These are FACTS.

  79. 79
    Smug lefty wankers, worldwide says:

    Not interested.

  80. 80
    F**k the LibLabCon says:

    Where have you been living Bob, under a rock on the far side of the moon?

  81. 81
    Anonymous says:

    Superb piece.

  82. 82
    Keen to know says:

    If you know of such letters, Nemesis, please show us where to find them.

    Guido’s shown it can be done, with a little sure knowledge and the internet etc.

  83. 83
    Vote UKIP says:

    Pinochet was a kind man.

  84. 84
    Barnehurst Bob says:

    You appear to have over looked Ed Milliband and Ed Balls.

  85. 85
    Pub Quiz Veteran says:

    The black geezer in shawshank redemption.

  86. 86
    Pick litter for bennies says:

    Typical lefties,lets get our political point over before any facts emerge.A mantra still currently used by anyone heard Balls saying Plan A is not working since his car crash speech.

  87. 87
    Elvis says:

    Thank you for saying what so many believe.

  88. 88
    Blue Peter Goldfish says:

    Councils all over the country are already pondering a suitable tribute, Nelson Mandela Square, Nelson Mandela Approach, Nelson Mandela Park… (it is so predictable, but you heard it here first).
    Royal Nelson Hall
    Mandela Stadium
    Buckingham Mandela,
    Sorry, now I’m getting silly (or perhaps not).

  89. 89
    Pick litter for bennies says:

    Check his monika,he,s in Hyde Park awaiting his many mates.

  90. 90
    F**k the LibLabCon says:

    Oh Nell, do you really have to dig up Hitler again?

    We all know about World War II, it ended 68 years ago but the point being made was “all African countries are corrupt and basically lawless”. I was agreeing with that comment and added some facts regarding the lawlessness and it’s roots within African tribalism. But I guess you missed that point entirely.

  91. 91
    Southern Softy says:

    That old slag will probably be on Strictly Come Dancing next year partnered by that bag of shit – John Prescott.

  92. 92
  93. 93
    Dreary Steeples says:

    You can be sure the real legacy Mandela left behind will not be mentioned in all this fawning, look up ‘Genocide Watch South Africa’. 4000 white farmers murdered, 20 white people murdered each day by blacks. The farmers are still not allowed to defend themselves by use of firearms.

  94. 94
    Barnehurst Bob says:

    Abbott does for racism what Balls would do for the economy.


  95. 95
    Dreary Steeples says:

    We already have Mandela Hall in Queen’s University Belfast.

  96. 96
    Blue Peter Goldfish says:

    Ah, that would have been the last wave of the Mandelas around 1990, how about Mandela 0/2 Hall?.

  97. 97
    Diane Abbot says:

    Yeah and none of those mass murders would have happened if it wasnt for the white man, the white race is to blame for everything bad in Africa which would be a heaven on earth if it wasnt for the evil interfering whitey always poking his white nose into black affairs, I blame whitey for every murder of every black African and every white African killed got what they deserved.

  98. 98
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    The point I make is that lawlessness, corruption and lack of morality and decency is not confined to any one race or creed. My word! you only have to study our own MP’s to come to conclusion!

  99. 99
    The Real World says:

    Don’t let them get to you. All Socialists die rich and miserable.

  100. 100
    Ghosts of Church Street says:

    Remember us.

  101. 101
    The Real World says:

    Apartheid didn’t fail because it was immoral, it failed because it was stupid. The Afrikaans should have just driven the blicks out of South Africa and killed anyone dumb enough to stay. That’s what the blicks are doing and so far it seems to be working for them. But due to their total racial inferiority the countries they drive us from will fail in the most horrible ways and in time we will return, only next time there will be no pity or holding back.

  102. 102
    Anonymous says:

    Yeah right. Thatcher, friend and protector of Pinochet, campaigner against sanctions for SA, is now a saint. You people need your heads examining.

  103. 103
    Piet deBoer says:

    “The farmers are still not allowed to defend themselves by use of firearms.”

    If you don’t want the vultures coming round, finding the carcase of the lion you had to shoot to protect your flock, you bury it right quick, baas.

    A wink’s as good as a nod, said the blind man…

  104. 104
    Blue Peter Goldfish says:

    That I would watch, pity the BBC hasn’t got much imagination, all those people out there desperate to get some some prime time coverage, passed their sell by date politicians, sportsmen/women, pundits etc. How about Strictly Steven Hawking and Diane Abbott, will need some work on the pas de deux though.

  105. 105
    Here Comes Fatty, He's a Sack o' Shit says:

  106. 106
    Right to Protest says:

  107. 107
    The Real World says:

    I like it when the wipe each other out, the BBC don’t care and we don’t get the blame but the result is still the same. Africa will belong to Europe and China within a couple of decades and the chimps will live on rafts, floating around stabbing at fish.

  108. 108
    Eric Leach says:

    Maggie and Mandela?

    Even Maggie had to get something right.

    Even Hitler had his qualities – he was a good painter and decorator allegedly.

  109. 109
    The Real World says:

    We get what we wish for Diane. One day you will wake up and the streets around you will be ablaze with chimps running amok. Good luck fleeing to the gated white enclaves. You may have money and an education but through a sniper scope you all look the same.

  110. 110
    The Real World says:

    No it wasn’t. I grew up believing in the Mandela myth. All this stuff is new to me. If it wasn’t for this blog I would still believe the leftwing narrative.

  111. 111
    Keen to know? says:

    Actually, Thatcher did not oppose all sanctions against SA. See comment 38, .

  112. 112
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:


  113. 113
    Podiceps says:

    He wasn’t. He was a painter in the other sense, producing atrociously bad landscapes. If he had been better at this, history would have been different. ‘Wow, a real Hіtler! Isn’t the brushwork superb?’

  114. 114
    Jabez says:

    Just STOP branding people on the democratic left who have differing views as BLIMPS. Insulting, and as you constantly state You are Wrong.

  115. 115
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    Oh Dear! who is that ??!!

  116. 116
    Zumas Brother says:

    Blacks salting the countries wealth in their own private bank accounts , not in South Africa of course. Give it a few more years and it will be in competition with Zim.

  117. 117
    tanzanite aka nellnewman says:

    Oh don’t be silly. even if he had been a good painter – his morals were so flawed he’d never be viewed as a decent human being!!

  118. 118
    Podiceps says:

    But a lot of painters had appalling personalities, and their works are still celebrated. Caravaggio and Modigliani spring to mind.

  119. 119
    Blowing Whistles says:

    There are unconfirmed rumours that it was a Paddy who publicly called for the end of apartheid some years before Maggie did and that rallies prior to those in trafalgar square first started in Dublin …

  120. 120
    Anonymous says:

    The people he refers to brand themselves as such.

    Read the fucking letter.

  121. 121
    Keith Vaz says:

    I just love dicks.

  122. 122
    Socialism is a severe mental illness says:

    And the Left think Stalin was a great guy. He killed between 20 million and 40 million.

    And Mao was a great guy. He killed between 49 million and 78 million people.

    Thatcher may well have supported the regime in South Africa. There was, as you will no doubt remember – unless you’re just a student union cretin – a cold war taking place, and SA was strategically very important. Mandela’s mob – and they were indisputably murderous scum – would have sided with the USSR.

    Lefties need their heads examining.

  123. 123
    Off-topic says:

    Sorry but has anyone else noticed that Craig Murray’s blog is down (lapsed back to 2009?!

    He hasn’t posted for quite a while, well over a month though was last reported to give a talk at the Nottingham Uni around 28 Nov.

    Some time back after news of a new BBC TV series involving British diplomats, he wrote a post entitled ‘OK, Now You Sue Me!’. I hope that invitation wasn’t taken seriously. Either way, one senses that he’s going through a difficult time and that no news, in this instance, is not good news. He has my support and compassion.

  124. 124
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    Maggie was not faultless – far from it – but compared to the Soviet. Stalin loving Labour Party at the time she was infinitely preferable.

  125. 125

    Oh! Come on! Caravaggio was only a murderer. Not even remotely in the Blair class.

  126. 126
    Someone says:

    Is he the one who pretends to be a pub landlord?

  127. 127
    Mdm Da Farge says:

    Remember the old saying “if is’t the difference between believing the truth or the legend then believe the legend”

  128. 128
    Richard says:

    Well said, but I’m afraid that various media (first draught of history, eh?) just don’t do nuance and shades of grey. Nor do they seem to be able to keep too many thoughts in their heads at once, so Mandela’s association with Ghadafi and similar just isn’t of interest. I would ’twere no so.

  129. 129

    Koos van der Merwe’s friend wanted him to check if the indicators on his car worked properly. So Van went to the back of the car and his friend switched the indicators on.

    Can you see anything? he shouted.

    Yes! shouted Van, Now they work, now they don’t, now they work, now they don’t.

  130. 130
    Someone says:

    Scratch the surface at the BBC and there are loads of talentless racists, peedos, criminals, drug addicts, authoritarians and wierd socialist scumbags lurking about: all hiding themselves behind the mantras of the PC language of multi-culturalism and leeching as much money as they can off the taxpayer.

  131. 131
    Casual Observer 4 says:

    Very good to see record put straight.

    Those of us on the right with understanding have been quite tolerant of the left’s shameless revisionism re Thatcher and the nasty party meme.

    Now as the state broadcaster ducks it’s responsibility the enemies of true liberty are laid bare. Perhaps an approach worthy of both these two political luminaries is in order. We know the left will not say sorry as that is not in their DNA.

  132. 132
    Londoner says:

    Personally, I think Maggie was correct to tell FW de Klerk to free Mandela. I also think she was right not to do so in a public or triumphalist manner: if she had, he would have refused.

  133. 133

    It is good to see you back posting again. You seem to have been scarce for a while.

  134. 134
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    Yes, whilst at the same time having thousands tortured and r*ped, including forcing daughters to have sex with their fathers and inserting rats into women’s vaginas. But I know you don’t mind. As long as it’s “lefties” being tortured, you’re happy. On that basis, I quite enjoyed the sordid violent demise that your friend Eugene Terre Blanche met.

  135. 135

    It shows she put the correct result over a cheap soundbite.

  136. 136
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    The pragmatic right achieved many things in the 80s and 90s – dozy soft left tw*ts like wishy-washy iDave will never remotely approach that sort of level.

    I should be a natural Conservative voter but the posh cnut has put me off them for a very long time – I’ll be doing UKIP in the European elections next year and then god knows..

    I refuse to vote for Cameron but Red Ed is a sock puppet of UNITE and Clegg is worse than either..

    Perhaps I’ll just devote my time to disentangling myself from contributing to shite that passes for society in the UK.

  137. 137
    Guns n' Neuroses says:

    It never fails to amaze me how the left constantly use Pinochet as a stick to beat the right with. As unpleasant as he was, he was pretty small beer compared to some of the monsters the left have climbed into bed with over the last 60-70 years.

  138. 138
    Guns n' Neuroses says:

    The ANC were terrorists you twat!

  139. 139
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    Pinochet has thousands murdered and tortured, righties call him a hero for saving that country from communism.

    Mandela fights to free his people from the racist violent apartheid regime and spends 27 years in prison as a result, subsequently becoming president and forgiving his enemies and not having anybody killed, right wingers call him a terrorist.

    Yep, that’s you lot summed up. Enjoy your current glee at his death. It’s a pyrrhic celebration, as he lived to 95, outliving his enemies and critics. Suck it up.

  140. 140
    Funambulist says:

    BPG, you can’t get too silly when it comes to lefties and the Mandelas. A couple of decades ago Thames Valley U. (ex: Ealing College) had a student bar called the Nelson Mandela Bar. A rival faction demanded that it be renamed the Winnie Mandela Bar. And so it was for a while. Then it was changed back to NM. This went on for weeks. Finally someone set it alight and burnt it to the ground. Problem solved!

  141. 141
    FFS says:

    Sad but true. We can only take some solace from the fact that whilst the media may wish to mythologise Mandela, historians have recorded the actuality of this man, what he did and what he did not do.

    In the end, it is the historical Mandela that will be remembered and not the mythical demi-god created by the BBC et al.

  142. 142
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    I know you miss the good old days of “kaffas” being routinely killed by the apartheid regime but just go and watch Birth of a Nation to vent your frustration.

  143. 143
    Guns n' Neuroses says:


  144. 144
    Londoner says:

    Pinochet saved Chile country from communism. He also had thousands murdered and tortured. A complicated man. living in complicated times.

    Mandela fought to free his people from the racist violent apartheid regime, using racist violent means. He spent 27 years in prison as a result, which is the sort of term in prison one would expect for a terrorist. Prison works: he spent his tome thinking and decided that his previous methods and those of his torturing and murdering colleagues in the ANC were wrong and that something better was needed.

    He subsequently became president and forgave his enemies. Having plotted to have people killed, critics are entitled to call him a terrorist. A complicated man living in coimplicated times. He has not outlived his critics. Suck it up.

  145. 145
    FFS says:

    He didn’t brand people on the DEMOCRATIC left of being blimps. He branded the LIARS on the left that have no interest in democracy for their readily exposed attempts to smear the DEMOCRATIC right with yet more lies about Thatcher.

  146. 146
    Guns n' Neuroses says:

    Who here has expressed any glee over Mandela’s death? I think someone is projecting here. Mandela was imprisoned for criminbal behaviour, regardless of whether the cause was just or not, so YOU suck it up!

  147. 147
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    Racist righties are butthurt that Mandela fought for his people and won and that he lived to a grand old age. It’s ok, I sympathise with your pain and how you long for a return to apartheid in South Africa but in the meantime just write fan letters to Stephen Lawrence’s killers in prison. Just don’t use too many words with more than one syllable. They’re not particularly bright. Actually, just send them George Bush’s favourite book, My Pet Goat. It has lots of nice colourful pictures the Lawrence killers will enjoy looking at after they’ve been violently buggered for the 20th time by their cellmates.

  148. 148
    Richard says:

    Yeah, I’ve noticed. I have a look at his site everyday and he hasn’t posted for a month or more. He’s had trouble with his ticker, so I hope he’s ok. I don’t agree with a lot of stuff he says, actually: I’m not a separatist (he is) and he can be a bit rude about people sometimes and uses language that I never heard from mum and dad (as do people here). But he allows views contrary to his own in the ‘comments’ section of his site, which is more than you can say for the Guardian and similar so-called (self-proclaimed, would probably be better) “liberals”. I’ve also read ‘Murder in Samarkand’ (ripped off, as far as anyone can tell by the prog you mention) which I found a real page-turner. I would recommend that anyone who wants a glimpse into the dark heart of the Blair regime reads it. Come back Craig, there’s at least one vile tory who misses you.

  149. 149
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    Using mobile. That was supposed to be in reply to a post above but ended up down here

  150. 150
    Guns n' Neuroses says:

    I’m afraid I can’t write any fan letters to Stephen Lawrence’s killers because, as he died from a single stab wound, I don’t know which one of them actually did it.

  151. 151
    Podiceps says:

    І thіnk уоu’rе mіѕѕіng thе роіnt hеrе. Іf Hіtlеr hаd ѕuссееdеd аѕ а раіntеr hе wоuld hаνе hаd nо rеаѕоn tо lарѕе іntо ѕеlf-ріtу, оr ѕtаrt соnсосtіng hіѕ рѕеudо-Mаrxіѕt роlіtісаl dеluѕіоnѕ. Hе wоuld nоt hаνе bееn іn а ѕtаtе whеrе hе соuld wоrk hіmѕеlf іntо bеlіеνіng thаt Gеrmаnу hаd bееn ‘ѕtаbbеd іn thе bасk’ bу thе Јеwѕ. Hе wоuld nоt hаνе wrіttеn Mеіn Kаmрf. Hе wоuld hаνе bееn tоо buѕу еаrnіng lоtѕ оf lоνеlу mаrkѕ. Whеn thе сrаѕh оf 1929 саmе, hе wоuld hаνе bееn wеll еnоugh іnѕulаtеd frоm іt nоt tо mіnd νеrу muсh. Yеѕ, hе mіght hаνе bееn аn оdіоuѕ ѕеlf-іmроrtаnt lіttlе mаn; but lоtѕ оf ѕuссеѕѕful раіntеrѕ hаνе bееn оdіоuѕ ѕеlf-іmроrtаnt lіttlе mеn.

  152. 152
    Londoner says:

    I think we are missing the bit he was responding to. As a stand alone comment, it does, nevertheless, look a tad OTT.

  153. 153
    FFS says:

    Sadly, I suspect that’s true. And with 10% of the experienced white farmers already murdered, 20% of the skilled whites already left the country and the murder rate 30x higher than the UK it looks like it will end up in a far worse state than Zimbabwe.

    Did you know that a quarter of men in South Africa freely admit to rape? And that 17% of the population have HIV/AIDs, one of the highest in the world.

  154. 154
    FFS says:

    Venezuela would buy it. It’s perfect for Venezuela.

  155. 155
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    How’s your hero George Zimmerman doing, righties? Oh, that’s right, he was arrested for threatening his girlfriend with a gun. What a nice man. But as some of you are fond of saying, she’s probably just one of those crybaby wimmin who had it coming.

  156. 156
    Child ghost of Wimpy bar bomb victim says:

    Believe me, they were as bad on the other side.

  157. 157
    Pick litter for bennies says:

    That,s the man who in private industry would have been sacked for gross misconduct(or incompetence, £500 million fire headquarters re org down the drain cock up aside) with his sexretary.But this is politics so normal rules do not apply and he,s in the House of Lords.!!

  158. 158
    Someone says:

    Never heard of him. Is he a friend of that rapist who runs the Socialist Workers’ party?

  159. 159
    Trotsky's Ice Pick says:

    Hear Hear!

  160. 160
    Trotsky's Ice Pick says:

    No but we can smell burning rubber and diesel and the screams of the tortured Africans rise up to balance the Glorification of Mandela.

  161. 161
    Child ghost of Wimpy bar bomb victim says:

    “Labour Party leader Harold Wilson told the press that his Labour Party was “not in favour of trade sanctions partly because, even if fully effective, they would harm the people we are most concerned about”

    “Tutu rather supported disinvestment, although it hit the poor hardest, for if disinvestment threw blacks out of work, Tutu argued, at least they would be suffering “with a purpose”. In 1985, the US and the UK (two primary investors into South Africa) stopped any investments. As a result, disinvestment did succeed, causing the value of the Rand to plunge more than 35 percent, and pressuring the government toward reform” [Reagan and Thatcher were in power in 1985]

    Open your eyes to the facts, to the truth. Stop allowing yourself to be brainwashed.

  162. 162
    Child ghost of Wimpy bar bomb victim says:

    “Tutu rather supported disinvestment, although it hit the poor hardest, for if disinvestment threw blacks out of work, Tutu argued, at least they would be suffering “with a purpose”. In 1985, the US and the UK (two primary investors into South Africa) stopped any investments. As a result, disinvestment did succeed, causing the value of the Rand to plunge more than 35 percent, and pressuring the government toward reform” [Thatcher and Reagan were in power at that time]

  163. 163
    Child ghost of Wimpy bar bomb victim says:

    He didn’t really do that much for democracy in South Africa. When he came out of prison in 1990 he was 72 years old and a rather bemused old duffer.

    He did what Tutu told him he should do because by then the myth of Mandela was in full swing and everybody had conveniently forgotten he was in prison because he started the terrorist wing of the ANC.

  164. 164
    Child ghost of Wimpy bar bomb victim says:

    15,000 people a year are murdered in South Africa. That’s already a civil war.

  165. 165
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    I hated the apartheid regime but the Communist juntas in neighbouring countries like Mozambique and Angola were just as bad – naturally no one in Europe dared to condemn oppressive cnuts like Eduardos dos Santos and Samora Machel.

    The former is still in power after 30 years (the last of the post colonial African dictators) and the later was the first husband of ….. wait for it…. Nelson’s widow Graca.

  166. 166
    Child ghost of Wimpy bar bomb victim says:

    “Tutu rather supported disinvestment, although it hit the poor hardest, for if disinvestment threw blacks out of work, Tutu argued, at least they would be suffering “with a purpose”. In 1985, the US and the UK (two primary investors into South Africa) stopped any investments. As a result, disinvestment did succeed, causing the value of the Rand to plunge more than 35 percent, and pressuring the government toward reform” [Thatcher and Reagan were in power at this time]

  167. 167
    Off-topic says:

    Richard, yes there is something about him that is refreshingly authentic and genuine whatever his politics.

    Re: his health, i fear he has multiple problems derived from so-called lifestyle (hate that term, but nevertheless) compounded by the stress of his personal circumstances. I do feel for him.

    PS Someone, I do wish him a pub but fear that the incremental alcohol wouldn’t do him any good.

  168. 168
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    Historically most artists have been rampant egocentrics but I would be very surprised if any competed with Blair in vanity or greed.

  169. 169
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    Any time someone mentions Pinochet, a chorus of right wingers mention Blair, Stalin etc. Why do so many right wingers regard every debate as a zero sum game? I think Blair is a rotten evil man, a war criminal and far worse than anything Thatcher ever did. And yet if I mention the right’s support for apartheid or its alliance with Pinochet, some assume that I must by default be a socialist or a Labour supporter. Putting aside the fact Blair is a Thatcherite and she called him her greatest achievement, some need to grow up and recognise it’s possible to condemn both sides.

    I won’t deny for a second that many on the left are also guilty of approaching each and every debate as a zero sum argument, but the implication here is that just because the left have been in bed with dictators, it doesn’t matter if the right also has.

    The sensible response regarding Pinochet isn’t to say “yeah but what about all the murderers the left have supported”, the equivalent of the playground two wrongs make a right, but to say “yes, he was a murderous dictator”. Unless, of course, you happily supported his regime, as some of you have openly admitted, in which case you’re ill advised to call others terrorists when you think it was ok for Pinochet to have people killed and tortured just because, in your view, they were a “bunch of lefties”.

  170. 170
    Child ghost of Wimpy bar bomb victim says:

    25% of men in South Africa freely admit to having commited rape.
    15,000 murders are commited every year.

    Basically we are looking at Rwanda again but on a 50 year timescale.

  171. 171
    Child ghost of Wimpy bar bomb victim says:

    “Tutu rather supported disinvestment, although it hit the poor hardest, for if disinvestment threw blacks out of work, Tutu argued, at least they would be suffering “with a purpose”. In 1985, the US and the UK (two primary investors into South Africa) stopped any investments. As a result, disinvestment did succeed, causing the value of the Rand to plunge more than 35 percent, and pressuring the government toward reform” [Thatcher and Reagan were in power at this time]

  172. 172
    FFS says:

    It’s you that’s the twat, isn’t it mate?

  173. 173
    FFS says:

    SOME right-wingers had time for Pinochet, but I certainly never did and I never had any time for Mandela either.

    Desmond Tutu and FW deKlerk dismantled apartheid. Mandela was just a befuddled old pensioner let out of prison at the right time.

    But Mandela (the man who ordered the killing of children) was a follower of Fidel Castro whilst Tutu (the man of peace) was a devout Christian, and that was what really determined who would become the hero in the BBCs eyes.

  174. 174
    Off-topic says:


  175. 175
    Anonymous says:

    If you call Blair a Thatcherite you are a socialist dimwit.

  176. 176

    Whilst understanding your point, I would ask you to consider there maybe there is another aspect to consider.

    Caravaggio was responsible for the death of Ranuccio Tomassoni and the details of his sex life are open to much interpretation. Caravaggio’s art was largely made in oil upon canvas.

    Blair was responsible for the death of countless people and the details of his sex life are open to much interpretation. Blair’s art was made upon the PhD thesis of one Ibrahim al-Marashi and was found on the internet.

  177. 177
    CarryHole is the porcine homunculus says:

    One of her mistakes.

  178. 178
    FFS says:

    I am right-wing and I never supported Pincohet. End of. So your point is?

    Some people are violently anti-communist so they supported Pinochet and denounced Mao, Castro, Stalin and Mandela. They are of the opinion that the only good Marxist is a dead Marxist, so Pimnochet was very much on their side. I don’t agree with them but they seem perfectly consistent.

    My concern with Mandela is only that the facts about the man are brought to light, and not the myths. Nobody can ever hope to build a better world if one man insists on following a myth, while another insists on the facts.

    As a left winger, and presumably Guardian reader, you should know that “Facts are Sacred”.

  179. 179
    CarryHole is the porcine homunculus says:

    Guido’s been losing it for quite a while.

  180. 180
    Dianne Abbott MP says:

    Thoughts, prayers with Madiba. I can only hope he pulls through this most difficult time.

  181. 181
    Gordon Brown MP says:

    Could I add my own best wishes to those of Dianne Abottsford, who is indeed a woman. It is my great hope that Madiba responds to the help and succour from his family, friends and expert medical team. Indeed, a free, signed copy of my own “Beyond the Crash: Overcoming the First Crisis of Globalization” is speeding its way towards the Great Man, in the hope that it speeds his recovery.

  182. 182
    Casual Observer 4 says:

    Some health matters have kept one away from the keys, but those are now repairing.

    You may be interested in this :

    A good article, which points out subtly that Mandela’s own politics were somewhat right of center. This one suspects is something the left – or those who subscribe to cultural Marxism in particular – really do not want people to understand.

    Thatcher’s position would not have been affected either way as the SA government had lost its credibility to govern by the mid 80s, but if Mandela had subscribed to left wing politics then he most certainly would not have been allowed to become president.

  183. 183
    tigerowl says:

    Thatcher opposed apartheid? Can people not remember when the Free Nelson Mandela concert was on in London? Tory MPs were attacking the BBC for promoting a terrorist. Tory MPs were often in South Africa and never spoke out against apartheid. Is some one re writing history?

  184. 184
    blackie says:

    You appear to have absolutely no understanding of the then existing apartheid regime and its brutality. You fight fire with fire.

  185. 185
    head.lice says:

    what did the head say to the lice. I will have a margaret. ta very much.

  186. 186
    Off-topic says:

    wot r u smokin? can u pass it ’round plz. . .

    Voted the most disingenuous remark of the day.

  187. 187
    Casual Observer 4 says:

    If P!nochet had been displaced from power by the hard line left in Chile then the body count would have been much higher following the US response.

    Drawing parallels on P!nochet’s rule is not fair as most people filter out the cold war geopolitics which was playing out at the time.

    In any case, Chile is a much nicer country these days than its neighbors who dabbled with communism. All eyes on Venezuela, and let us not forget that London Mayor Livingstone was supporting Chavez’s regime directly through a certain oil deal involving London Transport.

    Then there are those pics of Owen Jones et al. having fun down there, oblivious to the repression which was going on and is now intensifying.

    Labour do not have the excuse of the Cold War and avoiding thermonuclear annihilation for their support.

  188. 188
    F.W. de Klerk says:

    The wankers at the BBC did not even fucking mention me *once* and it was *me* that actually ended apartheid!

    Izzit coz I iz white?

  189. 189
    Casual Observer 4 says:

    The BBC is a reflection of one of its major funding bodies: The EU.

    A veritable Jimmy Savile scratch and sniff fest.

  190. 190
    The Real Vote UKIP says:

    Fuck off lefty

  191. 191

    Spot on and I have made a similar point here. One needs technocrats to solve the problems, not figureheads to blaze a trail – that is already done.

    On my last trip to SA, I was struck by the deterioration in infrastructure that was taking place. It is likely to be a lot worse now.

    It really seems that, along with USA, Canada and Europe, SA’s dynamism has figuratively slipped down the back of the socialism sofa.

  192. 192
    Casual Observer 4 says:

    You are Brett Easton Ellis, and I claim my free copy of American Psycho.

    Good work – keep it up.

  193. 193
    Cameron is not fit to lick Maggie's piss off Putin's face says:

    Wankers like Bragg and Weller wrote some crap songs about stuff, but Maggie actually made a difference in the world through her actions.

    There are people at the BBC and Guardian at this moment chewing their carpets in frustration at this.

    Bragg is probably quaffing some champagne while listening to Red Wedge singing about gay.

  194. 194

    BTW The remedy for illness here (and I have been laid low with a stinker of a reoccurring cold myself) is grappa at c80%. Can recommend.

    Get well soon!

  195. 195
    Hercules says:

    Indeed – the BBC is like the Augean stables

  196. 196
    it is dono says:

    what did the buzz say to kok
    never mind.

  197. 197
    The 1922 Committee says:

    The number of Party members expecting Cameron to be Prime Minister after 2015 continues to fall

  198. 198
    it is dono says:

    what did the buzz say to the kok
    never mind.
    hand pls.

  199. 199
    Podiceps says:

    With one important difference. Hercules cleaned the stables by diverting two rivers through them. The BBC must be cleansed by stopping the flow of the public’s money into it.

  200. 200
    Casual Observer 4 says:

    The problem with figureheads as large as Mandela is that so many less honorable men can easily hide behind him. The majority of the ANC for example.

    Mandela definitely ensured that conditions remained friendly for the multinationals which are operating in SA, and essentially bringing in the $. Others were left to look after the rest of the country, which as you point out very correctly for direct observation, has deteriorated.

    I would suggest that this is not a socialist problem in SA though, but more a mix of complacency and corruption which has been allowed to proceed unchecked. Some of this parallels what is causing similar decline in the US / EU and Canada, but the reasons in SA are somewhat different.

    Mandela did a very good job of keeping SA looking good on the international stage, as have other key players such as Tutu, Zuma and to a degree even the likes of Hain.

    The fact that the violence which was once endemic in the townships is now pandemic across nearly the whole country and the cities are virtual no go zones has been filtered heavily by much of the English speaking media.

    To your point – yes. Non corrupt technocrats and bureaucrats were required to keep the country at a good standard.

    Whilst Mandela did much just by virtue of being a symbol, it cannot be ignored that those closest to him did not follow his example, and in his shadow bad men have brought the country low.

  201. 201
    a left foot says says:

    I am free.
    I right foot says fuck me.
    the bitch in between says it is butter time.

  202. 202
    Casual Observer 4 says:

    Cheers SC. Will take that advice well, perhaps even mulled ;-)

  203. 203
    Pick litter for bennies says:

    Miliband,Balls,Abbott.Burnham aka Labour all ahead in polls.Happy nightmares everyone.

  204. 204
    Casual Observer 4 says:

    David Cameron is yesterdays man.

    The future is Farage.

    Vote UKIP :-)

  205. 205
    Podiceps says:

    Cat, it was you who introduced Blair into this discussion. I have been thinking only of what Hіtler might or might not have been if he had been able to paint better.

  206. 206
    Casual Observer 4 says:

    This is totally off topic, but I would just like to say without any hint of sarcasm:

    Michael Fabricant is a very good guy: Merry Christmas to you Sir.

  207. 207
    Greychatter says:

    Well said!! Margaret Thatcher did more for freedom and the rights of the ordinary folk than any of the Left Wing politicians of Media including the BBC will have you believe.

    If ever Labour, Red Ed Milliband and the Left wing thinkers get their hands on government again the future of this country is doomed!!

    The Left has a much more efficient propaganda machine, tell lies often enough and you starting believing those lies.

  208. 208
    fellowzim. says:

    try lemon for the kidneys for your bee is n you knee.

  209. 209
    Johnny Norfolk says:

    You Blimp.

  210. 210
    Opal. says:

    oh, you are so fruity.

  211. 211
    danny nolan says:

    Effin windbag.

    I think we all knew all that anyway.

  212. 212
    HM James VI & I, DG King of England, Scotland and Ireland, Defensor Fidei, says:

    Apparently she doth fancy herself the Magdalene to Mandela’s Jesus. She awaiteth the Resurrection.

  213. 213
    The Real World says:

    Hang ‘em all let God sort ‘em out.

  214. 214
    The Real World says:

    Bad spelling makes racist arguments look stupid.

  215. 215
    George Zimmerman says:

    I’m Hispanic. Only self hating lefties want to claim me as one of their own.

  216. 216

    Agree. Cape Town has been the murder capital of the world on a per capita basis for some years now. It took over from Joburg which had held the crown for some time. Whilst I was staying at my hotel on Albertina Sisulu Road, just a short walk from the Johannesburg Art Gallery, a Belgian visitor was murdered right outside the door just for his wallet. The hotel reception had been held up at gunpoint a few days before and they will still making good the damage.

    I saw my Pre-Raphaelites, Impressionists, Pierneefs, Picasso and Henry Moore and then got out quick!

  217. 217
    Owen Jones says:

    Oblivious? Hardly. We got a private tour of the torture rooms. I even had a go. Oh the screams!

  218. 218


    Quite so. You had used the words appalling personalities and I thought Caravaggio was a fluffy bunny compared with Blair.

    Were Hitler’s artistic abominations any more lacking in artistic merit than say Tracey Emin’s bed, complete with condom, which I admit to introducing myself? (That is the comparison with the bed and not the condom FAOD!)

  219. 219
    Off-topic says:

    I don’t care whose panic you are; nobody wants to claim you.

  220. 220
    Off-topic says:

    Farage: Mirage; Analysis: Paralysis.

  221. 221
    Anonymous says:

    Did you hear Jeanette Winterstone on any questions ? having the vapours because Terrorism and Mandela were mentioned ? He was actually quoted as saying he was glad he had been arrested before a planned outrage at a school took place !

  222. 222
    The British media are cunts says:

    So the Westminster scum are giving themselves an 11% pay rise. Of course we’d expect the Tory shit to take it but I’m sure all those good old working class lefty MP’s will turn it down won’t they?

  223. 223
    The British media are cunts says:

    BBC= Bumholes, Buggery and Cocaine

  224. 224
    lemon cake. says:

    the muscle is missing dear.
    put some muscle in the upper thigh region and then say quack quack.
    for you so need a doc.

  225. 225
    Podiceps says:

    I would say that his paintings were better than Tracy Emin’s works — and her attempts at drawing are beneath contempt; did you see the thing she did for the cover of the Tube map booklet a couple of years ago? Hіtler could actually set down a recognisable image of a building, in a pedestrian way. He was considerably worse with landscapes, and the ones I have seen look like spilt blancmange. There are plenty of examples on the web, just set your search engine to images and look for hіtler paintings.

    Hіtler, in a way, shared Emin’s talent for self-publicity. If he had devoted it to flogging bad art to rich fools instead of to rаping Europe, he would have done no more harm than she has.

  226. 226
    Nigel Mirage says:

  227. 227
    a lemon micey mouse says:

    hello neigh……….burr.
    bury the hatchet .
    burt us with you blurt…for the lov in you is so neeed.
    a love in need is a lovey. cream the dve dear.

  228. 228
  229. 229
    a lemon micey mouse says:

    when the dog is blowing the kat bends his ear is the dog a phoodoodoll

  230. 230
    a lemon dungcake says:

    hello prickles.

  231. 231
  232. 232
    Cassandra says:

    In the last eight months this is what has happened to the white daughter of my friend living in SA. Waved down by the police whilst driving alone, she slowed but hadn’t stopped when she saw a bakki of men (black) appearing from where they had been hidden, pulling in alongside her. She gunned the engine and headed for the city. No hijacking facilitated by the police that time, incidentally you have to keep some Rand on the passenger seat to give to the police when they stop you, even the Sunday Times reporter acknowledged this happened.

    Secondly, taking her elderly aunt to a hospital appointment, she was pounced on by a black man who stabbed her in the arm then took her bag, result she has partly lost the use of her arm and hand.

    Thirdly she attended a lunch meeting at a friends house to organise a charity event for poor children, even with the security and armed response buttons, they had just started to talk when several black men burst through the window and held guns to their necks, they were told to be face on the table and not move. They were then robbed of all chains, watches, purses, anything of value but they considered themselves lucky, very lucky, that they were not raped then killed.

    This is the reality of life in SA today, together with rolling power cuts, water cuts, all the assets of the country are now in the hands of the ruling party and their cronies.

  233. 233
    Anny Legalimigrant says:

    Send who?

  234. 234
    Richard says:

    Yep, that first paragraph is a good way of putting it. Besides, just because I don’t agree with everything he says is neither here nor there. I’m not the fount of all knowledge. And I do agree with and strongly admire the stance he took in Central Asia, and I despise the way he was treated for it. I’m pretty sure that were I in that position I would be found wanting – especially if I had a wife and kids. I might just make the grade as a single man, but I’m not even sure about that. So I respect that integrity and I have seen him on Youtube and like the way he speaks. After all, justice and its traditional mechanisms – habeas corpus, no imprisonment without trial etc. – ought to be conservative (small c) values. They’ve been part of the fabric of this country for long enough – ’til Blair and then Cameron came along.

  235. 235
    T May says:

    Yankee Go Home

  236. 236
    A war of words says:

    Is that red wedge wiki page still beng edited to call them a collection of arseholes? Lol!

  237. 237
    a lemon dngheap says:

    it is kite the kate time donga.
    do you ever fly either first or in classic.
    do you ever fly my butterfly
    go to chrysalis records and drink. the pond is dry now.

  238. 238
    Mailwatch says:

    DM totally out of touch with readership. Most of comments agreeing with her and/or questioning what there is wacist about her remarks.

  239. 239
    The British media are cunts says:

    The jocks I hope.

  240. 240
    Ed Miliband says:

    I have dropped Billy Bragg from my desert island playlist. I am not sure why. I am tone deaf and had never heard it anyway. But the UNITE SPAD told me to replace it with something to attract a different demographic. Which is strange, because Len says we win with gerrymandered constituencies, the Scottish votes and the stuffed postal votes anyway.

  241. 241
    Cassandra says:

    Also try, South of the Zambesi.

  242. 242
    Anonymous says:

    Sadly, that is true.

  243. 243
    Ed Miliband says:

    I have dropped Mr Bragg from my desert island playlist. I am not sure why. I am tone deaf and had never heard it anyway. But the UNITE SPAD told me to replace it with something to attract a different demographic. Which is strange, because Len says we win with gerrymandered constituencies, the Scottish votes and the stuffed postal votes anyway.

  244. 244
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    If as you say nell, lawlessness corruption and lack of morality and decency is not confined to any one race or creed (and let me just add you mentioned race first). Then what is the evidence to support this assumption?

  245. 245
    Cassandra says:

    I remember that dusky male bbc reporter who was, “going to report what South Africa is really like.” On his first reporting outing he was being driven through Hillbrow (part of Johannesburg) when machine gun fire rang out from one of the high rise flat blocks and he started screaming, *Get me out of here.” We never did get his report.

  246. 246
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    No idea.

  247. 247
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    Working class lefty MP’s don’t exist anymore.

  248. 248
    piped music says says:

    hey, is your crack open.
    open wide, it is the doctor.
    the medicine is in now now. lets now now wait for the friar for he is well piped.
    ti,cstock for the toe is in.

  249. 249
  250. 250
    Joe says:

    Spanish ancestry with a joowish surname go figure!

  251. 251
    Fuck you to the complainers we are the BBC says:

  252. 252
    Joe says:

    The Daily Mail still sucking on Dave’s cock I see.

  253. 253
    Stop re-writing history says:

    Care to provide a link or something similar to show Thatcher herself attacked BBC for promoting a terrorist, or was ever in SA and never spoke out against apartheid?

    Nothing in your garbled comment above shows she didn’t oppose apartheid.

  254. 254
    piped music says says:

    Haendrew ithe lot.
    full of air in the brick .
    when he farts there is a tiny squak.

  255. 255
    The Neddy Speaking Union says:

    Media Neddy Shall Talk Media Neddinese Unto Media Neddy

  256. 256
    fruity says:

    opal fruits are longing to ang. duckie.

  257. 257
    Habla Blah Blah? says:

  258. 258
    HRH muliculti defensor says:

    Send whom?

  259. 259
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    Get over yourself you jumped up little lefty twat, the courts and even youtube liberaltards think George Zimmerman was innocent of murder and the right verdict was reached. So he apparently threatened his girlfriend with a gun? Well let the evidence be compiled and a court date set.

  260. 260
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    You mean the LibLabCon cock.

  261. 261
    The Indian Ocean Water Board says:

    Labour did not just support torture, they helped organise it.

  262. 262
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    Good point, the ‘m’ is very important and all encompassing regarding these peoples, whomever they are.

  263. 263
    Lord Mandelbum of Shirtlifting says:

    Dirty boy!

  264. 264
    DtP says:

    Winterton was hilarious. For an author, she seemed to struggle with basic comprehension. And God alone knows where the audience came from but I doubt from Gloucester unless it’s turned into a toilet in the 10 years since I last visited.

  265. 265
    Foxie says:

    Another Lefty LIE refuted. Well done Guido.

    For about 30 years their narrative has been Margaret Thatcher approved of Mandela’s imprisonment.

    The Left will continue to create dissension and mobilise the masses as their only means of grabbing power in a democracy. Their LIES are their only means of doing so, the truth doesn’t work for them.

  266. 266
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    The point being that facts are now sadly just opinions when it suits certain leftwing activists and so called thinkers, they have no interest in facts if they conflicted with their ideology. Granted though the Mandela bullshit did start before 1997.

  267. 267
    David Miliband says:


  268. 268
    JFK says:

    Ask not who your country can send home, but who you can send home for your country.

  269. 269
    Anonymous says:


  270. 270
    Foxie says:

    I’m glad you dropped him, Ed. Personally I’d never have picked him up in the first place. Always sang flat and had about as much musical talent as a bull frog in the mating season.

    Bragg dropped his best friend and manager DJ Andy Kershaw like a hot brick when Andy had marital problems and was driven to the verge of a nervous breakdown by his distress — all those embarrassing headlines in the tabloids — Bragg had to think of the workers.

  271. 271
    Foxie says:

    I thought the Coalition were paying millions of taxpayers money for vans touring streets saying exactly the same thing… If you are an illegal immigrant, go home.

    So why is this news? She’s saying it too.

  272. 272
  273. 273

    No backsliding
    No apologising
    No attempt at qualifying her opinions.
    This is what millions have been waiting to hear from a party that has massive public support at last we may have a voice,this is a vote winner!

  274. 274


  275. 275

    The disappointment was palpable when it became apparent that despite his surname Zimmerman was not some blond aryan racist ,but a rather frightened inoffensive hispanic, who’s only crime was to defend himself against known dangerous criminals.

  276. 276
    One party state says:

    He was a much better painter than Churchill, thats for sure.

  277. 277
    Anonymous says:

    Good question. Illegals?

  278. 278
    domino says:

    See Harriet “Neice of Lord I Love Myra Hindley Longfords” past has come back to haunt her regarding the PIE…

  279. 279
    Sorry but I have to ask says:

    How much did it cost to get into the Free Nelson Mandela concert ?

  280. 280
    Public opinion says:

    He’s a plonker

  281. 281
    U U H Smith says:

    Send your copies of the Daily Hitler back to your newsagent and demand a refund.

  282. 282
  283. 283

    You are a really really funny guy!

  284. 284

    Twat – he did refuse

  285. 285

    I love the cat and a certain football player.

  286. 286
    Anonymous says:

    “And the Left think Stalin was a great guy. He killed between 20 million and 40 million.

    And Mao was a great guy. He killed between 49 million and 78 million people.”

    Yep, in a discussion about Mandela, some clown actually offered this.

    Apparently, those who opposed Thatcher suppored the above. Get the fuggen head shrinkers in. No wonder Britain is in such a state. The twat who wrote the above has got the brains of a Gove or a Duncan Smith.

  287. 287
    Anonymous says:

    It’s a little know fact that it was lefties who dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So who are they to talk?

  288. 288
    Working abroad and paying tax says:

    3338 The number of WHITE farmers murdered/butchered since the end of APARTHEID in 1994!! Great job the ANC are doing!

  289. 289
    (That's enough Eds, Ed!) says:

    + several hundred

  290. 290

    …and as we saw, stayed in prison on Robben Island until the end of his days where he died and was buried…

    Sorry, what was that you called me?

  291. 291
    John Tandy says:

    I would have expected no less from Maggie….

  292. 292
    Mandela's Legacy says:

    Unemployment under the NP was 4%, now it is 25% and has touched 40%. Tell me, how is life better today under the ANC?

    SA is now the murder and r@pe capital of the world. Tell me, how is life better today under the ANC?

    Poverty is higher today than ever, 20% of South Africans have AIDS. Tell me, how is life better under the ANC?

    In ten years time, the once richest country in Africa, will be where Zimbabwe is today. Tell me, how is life better under the ANC?

  293. 293
    Mandela's Legacy says:

    The useful idiot has never been exposed to the truth of either Mandela, or the ANC. Try reading, it may make you less of an idiot.

  294. 294
    askerratt says:


    Sent from Samsung Mobile

  295. 295
    Mandela's Legacy says:

    Mandela was in prison because he pleaded GUILTY at his trial, to 156 acts of violence and terrorism. Something lefties united, rather tend to ignore.

  296. 296
    yes ukip can says:

    Bigots like Nemesis do not need evidence.

  297. 297
    yes ukip can says:

    Del Trotter (Only fools and horses) lived in Nelson Mandela House.

  298. 298
    Richard says:

    Hitchens makes a pretty good point in the M.o.S. this morning comparing the reaction to St. Nelson’s death with the reaction (or lack of it) when Solzhenitsyn snuffed it. You’ve gotta hand it to the bloke, he can jump on and articulately expose hypocrisy and moral double-think with a rare precision. No wonder the Beeb-types and Guardianistas hate his guts.

  299. 299
    yes ukip can says:

    And guess who is giving aid money to countries like Mozambique?

    What we will achieve
    Over the four years, UK aid will help:
     314,500 people gain rights to land.
     An average of 43,000 people per year with cash transfers.
     44,000 children complete primary education.
     An average of 18,000 children per year to attend
    secondary education.
     98,000 women to receive assisted births.
     111,000 more people gain access to sanitation facilities

  300. 300
    yes ukip can says:

    Lucky WW2 was not decided on the artistic merit of its leaders then.

  301. 301
    Jeffrey Bernard says:

    A toast to both of them

  302. 302
    yes ukip can says:

    Sell off the BBC and put all the assets into a pot ready to be used for global natural disasters like floods and earthquakes. Surely the left can not complain about that? It is the right thing to do.

  303. 303
    John Bellingham says:

    Denis was often in South Africa. He was often to be seen at the Wanderers or at Ellis Park.

  304. 304
    yes ukip can says:

    Liblabcon-men MPs award themselves an 11% pay rise.

    And then they go to town bashing the bankers and energy companies for being greedy. You couldn’t make it up.

  305. 305
    yes ukip can says:

    Correction – she ‘said’ it when she was a Tory and she was indeed referring to illegals.

  306. 306
    No Xmas tree in my house every year since Tony Blair left says:

    Quite frankly any money should be used to pay down the National Debt.

    Also any financial advisors retained on the sale should be employed on the same scales as Criminal Legal aid lawyers.

    If there is a major natural disaster tell people they can make donations direct at their local Town Halls , Job Centres and Downing Street Gates.

  307. 307
    The Hunt is on for Tristram says:

    What has Harold Steptoe’s horse got to do with anything ?

  308. 308
    Analogy Fail says:

    Alexander Solzhenitsyn was a great writer but he was never President of anywhere.

  309. 309
    Tom's Life says:

    Watching Daley on the Ross (top talent) show last night, couldn’t help thinking the poor sod is on a train set in motion that he can’t get off.

    Has a mature man in his life who has become his lover, replacing the father he recently loss, just as many men make the mistake of falling in love with their “mother”.

    TV studio audience urged on by off camera cheer leaders, whooping at his every word but no thought given to that Tom himself is probably unsure.

    Everyone telling him how brave he is and he has done the right thing making it even harder for Tom to stop a while and get away from the circus.

    Does a young athlete at the start of life really have to go on the telly and discuss his intimate private life?

    Hope it works out for him but suspect he has been put in a position where he never ought to be.

  310. 310
    UKIP or bust says:

    Don’t think I trust leaving any money at Downing Street Gates.

  311. 311
    Those deemed 'heroes' of insectualization allowed only says:

    They strangle to death intelligent poor (for poor read: financial apartheid) young boys in magick ceremonies while bum fucking them; behaviour symptomatic of control by brain parasite infection. It gets rid of the competition while blackmail is used to control the future behaviour of the participants. It narrows the gene pool by restricting the variation of mtDNA of the so-called elite (as does nepotism):

    Thatcher approved this while Howard lifted restrictions and invited the US cults back into the UK after they had previously been banned.

  312. 312
    UKIP or bust says:

    Good summery, but alas he isn’t the first, and wont be the last, snared in the the web of fame for the benefit of other folks agendas.

  313. 313
    tom, dick and harry says:

    Greychatter, You are so right.

  314. 314
  315. 315
    Sport Fan says:

    He is a nasty narcissist and has been for years. If he and his partner had spent less time preaning and more time training, they might not have blown their fourth dive at the Olympics and won a medal.

  316. 316
    Hendrik Frensch Verwoerd says:

    Good Morning you Kaffirs.

  317. 317
    Democracy Now says:

    The political extablishment long ago lost all pretense that in a democacy our representatives are supposed to represent and articulate the range of views held by the electorate. Ed Miiliband finds public opinion on tis topic ‘depressing’, which suggests, if he is not lying, that he is suffering from a mental illness and should take a break

  318. 318
    I have never met a nice South African says:

    No habla foreign. Are you trying to say you want a coffee?

  319. 319
    Pieter Willemm Botha says:

    Let us pray too for the many victims in Cuba and Libya of Mandela’s friends Castro and Gaddafi.

  320. 320
    Eddie Izzard says:

    Michael Fabricant is made up.

  321. 321
    Not just here in the UK says:

    In France, men work in tandem targeting and abducting young girls from playgrounds. They strip them and put transparent plastic bags over the heads threatening to kill them if they struggle. The target age of infection is around 5-6 years old for the greatest controlling effect of the brain parasite infection. Another survivor told me this first hand.

  322. 322
    The Indian Ocean Water Board says:

    Let us pray for the victims of tyrants and torturers everywhere.

  323. 323
  324. 324

    …and you are a сunt.

  325. 325
    yes ukip can says:

    Since when did the Guardian editors run the Daily Mail?

  326. 326
    Richard Dworkin says:

    It’s a bit late to wish them long life and happilness.

  327. 327
    MSM says:

    Down with free speech.

  328. 328
    Prime Minister David Cameron says:

    HM the Queen to miss Nelson Mandela’s funeral as she cuts down on long distance flights, l know how she feels, its the same for me!

  329. 329
    Joe Public says:

    “Astonishing racist rant”? Blimey, I – and everyone I know – is an astonishing racist! Learn something new every day.

  330. 330
    Comments section of the Mail says:

    Fuck the LibLaBConMSM

  331. 331
    English for beginners says:


  332. 332
    Under Labour in the 1970s EVERYTHING was wonderful and other lies says:

    Thatcher’s actions over Apartheid do not sit well with the Left’s Urban Myth that they were taught at schools,colleges and university at the feet of bitter left wing teachers and lecturers.

  333. 333
    Tristram Hunt(Prime Minister Designate) says:

    Balance any MPs’ pay rise by reducing MPs’ numbers by double amount of pay rise. 11% pay rise = 22% fewer MPs.

  334. 334
    Africa says:

    Yes. it is so sad that it is currently impossible to take a train from Cairo to Cape Town

  335. 335
    The 1922 Committee says:

    Heres a little ditty about that excuse for a human being IDS to start your day!

  336. 336
    The public is no longer satisfied with the political clap trap of the left says:

    Judging by the number of comments in favour and approval ratings the Mail is in danger of being deluged by the public supporting her comments. Menawhile Labour Focus Group gives the wrong answer on immigration and depressed key advisor as he is forced to listen to the views of the public

  337. 337
    retardEd Miliband says:

    It helpth tholve our cotht of living cwithith.

  338. 338
    Andy Burnham says:

    So am I

  339. 339
    The BBC speaks to the nation says:

    Why bother on every platform which the BBC laughingly states is to hear the viewers opinions they reply in the same arrogant, smug and self-righteous way…i.e. I paraphrase:”WE, the BBC are ALWAYS right, YOU the licence paying viewer are ignorant, stupid,racists who talking bollocks…now fuck off !”

  340. 340
    All socialists are hypocrites says:

    Every newsagent in the country would be bankrupt…have you seen how many copies of the Dail Mail sell every day…they sell more copies in a day than the Guardian and Independent combined sells in a week

  341. 341
    Prime Minister David Cameron says:

    England reach 200 runs for the first time in the series

    Whoop de doo!

  342. 342
    Dixon Of Dock Green says:

    Video shows former cabinet minister at one of several parties where men sexually abused boys.*edophile-unit-seizes-video-of-ex-minister-at-sex-party

  343. 343
    Doctor Mick says:

    You just have to travel through the rest of Africa to see what corruption and the break down of the rule of law has done, Zimbabwe for example. We need to stop propping up these regimes with aid and let the people sort their own problems out.

  344. 344
    All socialists are hypocrites says:

    “I wish our schools actually taught history.”…THAT battle was lost ages ago…the leftist socialist view of world history particularly British history is dominant in all our educational establishments…and everyone is expected to go on a massive Guilt-fest

  345. 345
    Doctor Mick says:

    Now that South Africa is a wonderful egalitarian multicultural utopia can we send Peter Hain back? Or has he turned his attention to the problems of Wales.

  346. 346
    A better idea says:

    Reduce the number of MPs by 22% and give the remaining ones an 11% pay cut. And make them fund their own pensions. They might take a little more interest in the performance of the stock market and fairness of pensions fees if they’re in the same boat as the rest of us.

  347. 347
    Doctor Mick says:

    It was a loss of nerve as his sphincter quivered….

  348. 348
    Ed Miliband says:

    Like my father, Adolph, I hate England.

  349. 349
    Nigella's Crack (pipe) says:

    Is it the block of flats where Del Boy and Rodney lived?

  350. 350
    Doctor Mick says:

    Every time I hear mention of democratic socialism I need to tighten the bandages on my ribs.

  351. 351
    Anonymous says:

    @ 27. The BBC is not the sole possessor of bias, as a browse through the media will show.

  352. 352

    Carve her name with pride

  353. 353
    John Bellingham says:

    He is actually from Kenya. His short period of residence and attendance at Pretoria Boys’s High where he was involved in an “inappropriate” relationship with Harris, the murderer of an old age pensioner, does not make him South African.

  354. 354

    Agree with your analysis. He would take quite some care with his perspective and outlines of buildings. It didn’t always come off and his work ranges from mediocre to fair. He seemed unable to introduce any sense of depth to these works by toning colour. It is clear he had learned a number of illustrators tricks e.g. in his handling of foliage.

    Agree that his landscapes were pretty bad.

  355. 355
    Axe The Telly Tax & Religion & Kill All Eco-loons says:

    If Labour really want to win the biggest landslide in history (by stealing UKIP votes) and go on to govern for the next 50 years they just have to make the top 4 priorities in their manifesto as follows:

    1. Invoke article 50 and restore full sovereignty (border controls,fishing grounds etc) as it was before 1972.

    2. Abolish all taxes on petrol,electricity and gas.

    3. Halt all low/unskilled immigration until we have a shortage of low/unskilled labour.

    4. No more asylum seekers allowed into Britain

  356. 356
    C.O.Jones says:

    Public opinion is difficult to accept for most politicians. The public are obviously wrong.

    Personally, I find it strange that someone who has never had a productive job in the real world can rise to such heights – but then his electoral base is from people who do not have productive work and an army of scroungers.

  357. 357
    Axe The Telly Tax & Religion & Kill All Eco-loons says:

    The Roma are still coming Dave, 24 days and counting.

    Tick tock!

  358. 358
    sussex carol says:

    I am wondering what earthly purpose is served by gordonbrown going to Mandela’s funeral? Obama needs to be warned to avoid kitchens.

  359. 359
    sussex carol says:

    Nonsense of course because many of them are here already.

  360. 360
    Comrade Barroso says:

    This is a job for SUPER EUROPE or SUSSR.

    If Africa were to join the EU we would build expensive and pointless high speed trains all across Africa all paid for by the British.

    Vote for me (or not it doesn’t matter either way I’ll still be your ruler)

  361. 361
    sussex carol says:

    Just curious – was there a connection between Xmas Trees and bliar?

  362. 362
    MSM/LibLabCon says:

    We want less free speech.

  363. 363
    albacore says:

    After Mandela, who could stand the pain
    Of the reported loss of saintly Hain?
    Rending of garments and gnashing of teeth
    At the BBC would revive Lord Reith

  364. 364
    I hate socialists. says:

    Yes , Mandela and the ANC were terrorists and South Africa is in a worse mess now with murder and corruption the norm.

  365. 365
    belsen mendacious says:

    free abdel (‘mick’) mcgahey

  366. 366
    MPs r US eless says:

    Tom Watson’s question pointed to investigations that were closed down when they got too close to people in power. This was also my experience in Islington when all police were removed from my investigations of child murder, abuse networks, abductions and sexual assault. It is only by the investigation of past crimes that current children will gain protection from abusers who have never been brought to justice.
    Dr Liz Davies
    Reader in Child Protection
    London Metropolitan University

    But before we do anything we need a pay rise say MPs

  367. 367
    White wash makers unite says:

    Just turned on tv to Sky’s so called news and blinky Balls is on denying everything and whitewashing 13 years of Liebour destruction and my missus walked in and said why have you got him on he’s a total waste of space, she is not political.

  368. 368
    Baldrick's burger bar - open all hours says:

    An excellent prescription if I may say so – especially as I lived for 10 years in that part of southern Africa in the 1980s-90s. It really was a beautiful place until roughly the early 1990s when Mugabe had grabbed the power and went subsequently gaga; and Mandela and his (ex?)colleagues started on their rampage to the bottom of the pit.

    You could walk down Commissioner Street in Jo’burg [now one of the most dangerous places in the world] in perfect safety at any time of the day or night. Likewise Harare was undoubtedly one of the most beautiful towns in the world – what a shame the ni9no9s did not know how lucky they really were in those days.

    Now I never go anywhere near the place; shame as the whole area carries beautiful memories from that time of my life.

  369. 369
    Anonymous says:

    Squirm as much as you like, Greedo.

    The evil bitch Thatcher was seen through by decent people (- no one you know) decades ago.

  370. 370
    Lord Hard says:

    Mandela + Thatch – criminals Both
    Same with this twat El Cameroon

  371. 371
    Free speech hurts says:

    They will never sort out their own problems. In the UK black men make up 5% of the country but commit 50% of the crime. This is a fact. Black women in the UK have woken up to the truth about black men and increasingly are refusing to have anything to do with them – that is really the only solution.

  372. 372
    Baldrick's burger bar says:

    Can somebody get them on the phone please asap. The place has no money, but I am sure there will no difficulty in just giving the organisation away completely free of charge.

  373. 373
    UKIP, the finale solution says:

    Have a look at the Tory rag the daily wail, they have just pimped yet another dirty smear attack against UKIP councillor from six years ago. The Tory stooge media doesnt seem able to understand that these dirty bin diving smears simply makes UKIP more popular than ever, you have to wonder at the stubborn stupidity of the liblabcon and their PR spiv smear merchants and their brilliant strategy of increasing the UKIP vote every time they come back with repeated attempts to smear the party and members.

  374. 374
    F**K the LibLabCon says:

    A very interesting read, a potential bombshell indeed.

    By the way that link didn’t work.

    Try the front page:

  375. 375
    Norman Tebbit says:

    Then get on your bike. Paul did in 2011.

  376. 376
    We are the losers says:

    If Liebour get back in, they will punish the people of the country for voting them out in 2010, so expect ID cards, 90 days without a lawyer, high petrol taxes, high car taxes , high air fares, high train fares and very high house rates, of course these taxes raised will be ‘invested’

  377. 377
    Robert Mugabe says:

    I’m so glad the whites have double standards. Breathing down Botha’s and de Klerk’s neck to run South Africa to the highest possible Western standards perceived (even if they already had the most successful African country ever). Hah! And getting rid of Ian Smith who would have made a success out of Rhodesia. Luckily, blag buggers like me can go around draining the country’s coffers and rape and pillage and torture to my heart’s delight. No one gives a shit. Sorry: correction: they actually try to give my country (and thus me and my shopaholic wife) more money to fix “my problems”.

  378. 378
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    Righties are completely devoid of compassion for anyone but themselves and their friends. When Anders Breivik massacred a bunch of people, the comments here were celebrating the deaths of “young socialists”. So just having different politics to you made them worthy of death. Ditto jokes about the Glasgow pub deaths, when Foot died and when an unarmed black kid was killed by George Zimmerman – unless you count a bag of Skittles as a dangerous weapon. And yet some will still, without a hint of irony, call others nasty. At least be honest. I’d have more respect if you’re just honest and say you hate “kaffas”, as your beloved apartheid regime called them, and that you hate all people who have different politics to you and that you think they deserve to die. Incidentally, your hero Reagan was for a long time a Democrat before becoming Republican. Using righties’ twisted logic of hate, at one time he’d have been worthy of condemnation and death, just like the kids massacred by your other hero, Breivik.

  379. 379
    Baldrick's burger bar says:

    Indeed. The Rand went from 3:1 to the pound to 7:1 in very short order. No fun for the natives, but certainly made life a lot cheaper for the expats at the time.

  380. 380
    The BBC says:

    We also claim he was a womanising bisexual, on the flimsiest of evidence that would shame a News of the World reporter.

    No more heroes for you Brits. We are under orders from the Comintern to destroy your culture from within so it can be replaced by socialism. Thank you in advance for your continuing co-operation.

  381. 381
    But says:

    you can cycle…

    Tour d’ Afrique

  382. 382
    Nilsson says:

    I can’t live….. if living is without you!

  383. 383
    hey lemon says:

    you in a roll.
    leave cat alone.
    he is mine.

  384. 384
    JH348320948230903 says:

    So what?

    Apartheid was ended by F W De Klerk, not Mandela.

  385. 385
    The Clue says:

    is in the name.

  386. 386
    Matilda says:

    Shouldn’t she already be in Jo’burg with Owen and the other two hippos acclimatising herself for next week’s QT?

  387. 387
    Bombshell says:

    “Detectives believe that some of the “sex parties” were organised by Sidney Cooke, the notorious paedophile who led the ring of four who were jailed for killing Jason Swift in Hackney, east London after gang raping him in 1984. Other notorious paedophiles went to some of the parties. They include Jimmy Savile, the late BBC star, and Cyril Smith, the late Liberal MP, according to the key witness.”

  388. 388
    anon y mouse says:

    Turkeys and Christmas comes to mind.

  389. 389
    albacore says:

    Well, they’ve got to have some comic relief
    Amid that mighty outpouring of grief
    Maybe Gordon’s re-enacting “Zulu”
    Might prevent a hara-kiri or two

  390. 390
    Matilda says:

    A very fair recommendation too. Let’s negotiate a little: we will agree to taking Nelson’s column down – at the same time as your organisation is broken up into different bits and sold off to the highest bidders. What do you say?

    [Once that job is done we can always restore Horatio to his rightful place. Sshh…]

  391. 391
    hilli billi says:

    the roll is the comfort dear.
    try for size.
    tinker if you may for the tailor awaits.
    docdoc. that willbe as it is youwho osir it will be 9£
    50aheadcommeth.winkwink. ahoi silver

  392. 392
    I seem to be spending less and less time here says:

    The censorship on this blog is become ridiculous.

  393. 393
    Labour Lost Get Over It! says:

    Fuck off and get back to Ed’s cock.

  394. 394
    Err says:

    “podiceps” similar to loons but smaller.

  395. 395
    Ralph Miliband says:

    The English cricket fan is a rabid teamist. They are perhaps the most teamist people in the world … When you hear the English talk of this game you sometimes almost want them to lose it to show them how things are.

    They have the greatest contempt for the opposition in general and for the Australians in particular. They didn’t like the Australians before the defeat … Since the defeat, they have the greatest contempt for the Australian team… England first. This slogan is taken for granted by the English people as a whole. To lose their Ashes would be the worst possible humiliation.

  396. 396
    sussex carol says:

    +Smiles+ But the clue to what?

  397. 397
    mraemiller says:

    Thatcher massively undermined the social and economic power of sanctions by continuing trading with the scum much to everyone’s shame.

  398. 398
    Baldrick's burger bar says:

    “Miliband either isn’t allowed to or is just plain stupid”.

    It is both, Shirley?

  399. 399
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    Send him your book on courage – he has much to learn from you.

  400. 400
    Maybe says:

    But it doesn’t censor grammar ;)

  401. 401
    Lord Hard says:

    Take a trip round Bham.
    Place is full of East Europeans, and chinese

  402. 402
    Churchill says:

    I did get a Nobel prize for literature though

  403. 403
    Lord Hard says:

    This blog used to be well worth reading… now its just fallen into
    another mouthpiece of state politics. Next well have Cameron+Clegg tribute.
    Come 2015 election… the lot lib/lab/con/ukip/ can go F**K themselves.

  404. 404
    Baldrick's burger bar says:

    Merely life in prison for that??

    Bloody hell, these colonials really had wimpy judges in those days. Maybe that’s where our current lot learned their trade. He should have been taken out into Cape Town and chucked overboard in a sack…. pour encourager les autres you understand…

  405. 405
    Baldrick's burger bar says:

    The word ‘African’ is utterly superfluous.

  406. 406
    Dreary Steeples says:

    It is sad to see South Africa turning into a shite hole like Mugabe land. Kleptocracy appears to be the only form of government in Africa.

  407. 407
    Teddy Taylor is a twat says:

    Just the level of intellect I expected. Now run along and watch Birth of a Nation whilst wanking to photos of Strom Thurmond.

  408. 408
    Baldrick's burger bar says:

    **Cape Town Bay

  409. 409
    Victoria Fayling says:

    Vote UKIP. Let’s send the lot of them back.

  410. 410
    Sad but True says:

    Poor chap has been under the most immense pressure since the shooting and trial.

    He’s been found guilty by a section of the public that never followed the trial at all.

    I’m not sure I’d blame him if he snapped now.

  411. 411
    Anonymous says:

    Fuck off you BNP chav there’s a good chap.

  412. 412
    JH32-0945-034956234 says:

    George Zimmerman was not white. The fact he was called ‘white hispanic’ in the media is hilarious. Name some other famous ‘white hispanics’ for us.

    I suppose you think it is just fine and dandy when blacks butcher each other (while nebulously blaming ‘white oppression’ for their apparently inbuilt compulsion to kill each other over the most trivial matters) but if anyone paler than Pantone Tawny Brown (17-1226 TCX) kills someone darker then it is suddenly a time for national soul searching.

    Fuck you all.

    PS – while we are at it, remind us of St. Trayvon’s Twitter screen name.

  413. 413
    Tulips from Maastricht says:

    Then why do you keep coming back moaning and crying the blogs not worth reading, create your own blog or go and take your ball and play elsewhere.

  414. 414
    (That's enough Eds, Ed!) says:

    Ha ha! Now THAT’S funny!

  415. 415
    Baldrick's burger bar says:

    See! In those days the comedy writers had the talent to make us laugh at such nonsense.

    In other news, it is customary to name things/places after people once they have passed on to their own sunlit uplands.

  416. 416
    Curly says:

    There would have been no problem if one of the “students” had had the nous to rename it “Persondela Bar” thus neatly accommodation both sides’ wishes.

  417. 417
    Dreary Steeples says:

    If you go to ‘Cranmer’ you will find Victoria is referring to illegal immigrants and failed asylums seekers. It was filmed by her ex husband when she was still in the Tory party, who obviously has a problem with her hanging out with Nigel. Is the Daily Fail anti UKIP by any chance?.

  418. 418
    FFS says:

    She’s right.

    They’ve had their chance and they’ve blown it.

    Send them all back.

  419. 419
    sussex carol says:

    I have nothing against anyone of any creed or any colour – all I ask is that they work full time, do their gardens, look after their children properly and behave like decent neighbours.

  420. 420
    Curly says:

    Whoever dreams up these fairy stories needs chucking off Westminster Bridge (or the top of Eland House, if you prefer).

  421. 421
    FFS says:

    Unfortunately the skills required to allow a person to climb the greasy pole of politics are the very skills that should rule you out of ever being prime minister.

  422. 422
    Stop re-writing history says:

    My comment mentioned “Thatcher herself”, responding to a comment referring to her.

    Please keep up. No use throwing in tangents in the same was as the author of the comment I was referring to.

    But since you have, I’d be happy to look at any links you can provide to ensure you’ve read them accurately. You obviously didn’t read my comment, or the one I responded to, accurately.

  423. 423
    Keitho says:

    Thanks for saying so eloquently what many of us feel.

  424. 424
    Duchess of Camnbridge says:

    Time to put up the tiara and give it a rest love. Give Charlie boy a go – he’s waited long enough.

  425. 425
    Sexi Sonja says:

    I’m self employed Roma and regularly working streets of Enfield.

    Are you looking for business?

  426. 426
    Sad but True says:

    You’ve set the bar rather high haven’t you?

    You do realise that blick men have murdered over 14,000 people since they began to immigrate here after 1955? I think asking them to do their gardens might be expecting a bit much.

  427. 427
    Bilda Berger says:


  428. 428
    Sad but True says:

    Breivik did such a terrible thing that the Norwegians immediately elected a very right-wing government on an anti-immigration ticket.

    As for Zimmerman he’s just another dangerous dago with a gun.

  429. 429
    Anonymous says:

    I was in SA when apathide was still in force 1958, I bet that within one year the country will dissintergrate into tribal conflict. Never mind no doubt our aid budget will finance the weapons. Just you watch

  430. 430
    Beware of Greeks says:

    We must divert the River Irwell immediately!

  431. 431
    Sunderland is a Labour ghetto thats why its shyte says:

    The BBC has been wall to wall Mandela since he passed on,its completely over the top.The usual suspects have lined up to eulogise though not a single one of them would choose to live in South Africa,a country overwhelmed by murder,rape,corruption,nepotism and the path to poverty.No mention of coure of this dark side on the BBC.If the Tories win the next election then the BBC should be subscription only the taxpayer should no longer fund the Marxist organisation.The latest news of Zuma and Winnie praying in church is sickening I hoped they prayed for the soul of Stompie Maketosii and the white Zimbabewean farmers being murdered by their brother Mugabe.

  432. 432
    Rationalist says:

    The scarey thing is that the post 80s generations, brought up on the Mandela myth by left wing teachers, don’t realise that John Sullivan chose that name simply to mock the idiocy of left wing councils.

  433. 433
    eton mess says:

    vote tory for bum-sex, immigration, higher taxes and cash destruction

  434. 434
    Ethel of Purley says:

    Yes Teddy twat, I was one of them celebrating the wanna be Tony B LIARS getting whacked, imagine how so much better Britain would be if someone like Mr Breivik had blown that money grubbing champagne socialist fucking traitors head off before he got his dirty fucking mitts on our government and did his best to destroy Britain, the same applies for all of the labor party scum, and the likes of deluded arseholes like you.

    I salute you Anders Breivik, you are a true hero.

    Ps Burn in hell Mandela you fucking mudering terrorist savage.

  435. 435
    Tory HQ says:

    We are confused.

    We send vans around London saying Go Home.

    But we criticise UKIP for saying Go Home.

    Some may call us un-principled fuckwits.

  436. 436
    Curly says:

    Sounds rather like a certain G Brown ..

  437. 437
    sussex carol says:

    I don’t think murder is confined to any one group of people . If you research properly I think you’ll find all sorts of people of all creeds and colours commit murder sadly.

  438. 438
    McDoom says:


  439. 439
    Anonymous says:

    Sanctions only hurt the poorest – and the blacks were the poorest.

  440. 440
    Floyd Fan says:

    I just loved his cover of the Dark Side of the Moon.

  441. 441
    Curly says:

    …. but she had best beware the forthcoming Insurrection. An early target methinks.

  442. 442
    Burgers are bad for you says:

    yes maybe, I was sitting here myself pondering the motives of the DM to give this item such a huge front page , er, splash. Anyone know what they are up to? We must all give full support to this lady.

  443. 443
    Truthteller says:

    Where did it all go wrong.

  444. 444
    Burgers are bad for you says:

    The Chinese have been doing this for years already. Do keeo up.

  445. 445

    but honestly it was a really really funny comment. I am so jealous that you can think of such a funny comment after only 3 hours or so. Please keep it coming. It helps me knock out a quick one.

  446. 446
    Burgers are bad for you says:

    Oh dear! Is somebody hogging his X box?

  447. 447
    Sniper says:

    When are they all due reconvene en masse? While you find out, I shall go looking for a nice big bazooka.

  448. 448
    Sniper says:

    Weren’t lots of Australians caught out cheating not long ago? Seems they did not get many Olympic medals either for some reason.

  449. 449
    Truthteller says:

    But the MSM say otherwise. Who do I believe? It’s a curly one.

  450. 450
    Sniper says:

    … and of course a reasonable chance of violent reaction among the generally fair-minded populace. Better get the beans and popcorn in early.

  451. 451
    Sniper says:

    They won’t do their gardens because all the old bones will be uncovered!

  452. 452
    Baldrick's burger bar says:

    Chaka Brown doesn’t quite have the same ring to it. Is Chaka bin Streatham going (and if so at whose expense?).

  453. 453
    Baldrick's burger bar says:

    Removed on whose instructions?

  454. 454
    Baldrick's burger bar says:

    Started when Surely Williams and Dicky Crossman were elected to government.

  455. 455
    Keitho says:

    Perhaps , but while it seems to be the exception elsewhere it is the norm in Africa. I am sure you can see the difference.

  456. 456
    Keitho says:

    During the apartheid era around 7000 blacks were killed by whites. In the same period 14000 blacks were killed by other blacks for political reasons.

    Just to maintain some perspective on the 15000 a year currently murdered there.

  457. 457
    Sad but True says:

    Violent crime rate of blicks in the UK is a staggering 20x higher than for whites.

    So whilst I would agree that saying “blick people are murderers so Naomi Cambell must be a murderess” would be racist, if you say “blick people commit an order of magnitude more murder than white people so it would be an appalling mistake to allow blick people to move to the UK” that would not be racist. Just logical.

  458. 458
    Fred Firestone says:

    That would have been me and Winnie with our matches and diesel.

  459. 459
    Robert Mugabe says:

    I am so glad Thatcher placed such high standards on Botha and de Klerk, and let me carry on buggering my people. Black is beautiful.

  460. 460
    21stcnow says:

    Utter delusional tosh

  461. 461
    21stcnow says:

    You mean a million times better today for the average South African than when the Nasty Party right wing ruled. Pull the other one plonker

  462. 462
    21stcnow says:

    Spot on. You can always rely on the right wing/Pinochet brigade to try and rewrite history. What plonkers

  463. 463
    21stcnow says:

    Good thing too. Most of the right wing “racists, fruitcakes, loons and oddballs” on this site sound like they need sectioning under a Mental Health Act

  464. 464
    Big D says:

    Arent I just sick to the back teeth of hearing on the BBC the name Mandela.
    Next time the tele gets it .

  465. 465
    non taxable pikey says:

    The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment. Worth a read.

  466. 466
    non taxable pikey says:

    Only if the BBC can make the lights work in Caracas.

  467. 467
    non taxable pikey says:

    All being exported to Russia for a better price.

  468. 468
    I hate socialists. says:

    Keep taking the tablets you plonker.

  469. 469
    FUEUSSR says:

    Loved the interview with abbot and the ex ambassador during Maggies time telling her what she had done,I should imagine that her nickers will sill be twisted for some time to come.

  470. 470
    FUEUSSR says:

    Surely that light will go out of England when he foxtrot oscar’s back to his native Scotland when they vote for FREEDOM Next year

  471. 471
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    In a lot of ways Pinochet was a cnut but he implemented economic reforms that have helped to put Chile ahead of most of the continent.

    Latter day lefties like Morales, Chavez, Lugo and Correa have been economically disastrous.

  472. 472
    cured lefty says:

    Lefty fufd alert!

  473. 473
    Dreary Steeples says:

    Thanks. Stayed in Hillbrow district myself back in Sept 1981, it was a rough enough area then, not to be walking at night time.

  474. 474
    mraemiller says:

    You missed the point as did Mrs T if she was looking for it… The logical conclusion of the ap system is, whether fast or slow, genocide against black people. Therefore the poor who were sufffering anyway this made no difference to. Great bit of film of Mrs T going on about how small the economic impact of sanctions was “only half a million” on C4 news. She missed the point of the political and social impact. Honestly I think it was all about money for her. Okay sanctions didnt work against Saddam for example but that’s because he had ocal political support in the region. South Africa didnt. Its regime was putrid and openly racist. How many accomadations with evil can you make before… Sorry didnt wash in the 80s… Dont wash in 2013

  475. 475
    Farmer Giles says:

    Whomsoever? Or is that just being picky? Or is it even correct? Buggered if I know. Bollocks, now I have completely forgotten of whom we speak anyway! If only I had paid attention when I was at the Che Guevara Memorial Comprehensive … I was sat next to a bloke named Cameron. He was paying attention and look what happened to him.

  476. 476
    Richard says:

    Hardly matters, does it, or are you suggesting that his lack of political ambition or success somehow discredits him as a human being. Hadn’t filled enough expense accounts out or something.

  477. 477
    Patrick Jay says:

    The history on Apartheids demise also disregards and plays down the role of white South South Africans in pressurizing the Government to end apartheid and give the majority a democratic right to vote. There was a referendum. The overwhelming majority of whites only voters, voted YES. That was over six years before Nelsons release and it initiated the Independence of Namibia and an end to border war. It took time and young white boys were drafted into the army to keep the peace and stability. Only the negative points of view are published. Maggie was a Champion.

  478. 478
    RIP Nissan Main Dealer says:

    Mandela aligned himself with every dodgy revolutionary around the world and was a “personal friend” of Gadaffi, Mugabe, Castro and the military juntas of Burma and North Korea. Interesting that Bill Clinton wants himself counted in this club. The newsreels are now saying that he overcame and conquered apartheid. From memory it was international pressure that did that and FW De Klerk is much underthanked for removing PW Botha, releasing Mandela and proposing free elections. Mandela hopped on to the throne for a quick 5 years after which SA was a true democracy with more violence, unemployment and AIDS to show for it. Its hard in reality to see the practical benefits of democracy/equality to ordinary South Africans and harder still to see what Mandela has given them – “pride” etc doesn’t feed your family or keep them safe and healthy. To say nothing of Mandela’s curiously erased criminal past and a 2nd wife who actively participated and organized torture and execution. For god’s sake the man advocated violence. He’s more Gerry Adams than Mahatma Ghandi.

  479. 479
    sally bercow says:

    shame the ol fellas dead, i wudda shagged im

  480. 480
    Working abroad and paying tax says:

    Not according to the BBC!!

  481. 481
    Working abroad and paying tax says:

    Not according to the BBC!!!

  482. 482
  483. 483
    Airey Belvoir says:

    It would be interesting to know whether crimes of corruption,robbery, assault and rape are higher in the new ‘rainbow’ South Africa compared with ‘bad’ old Apartheid South Africa. For many people of both races, I believe that things may have got a lot worse.

  484. 484

    Actually, I did not release him! Maggie’s letter was to me. I did not act on it. Mandela was released by deClerk.

    The cat is a twat!

  485. 485

    A South African president who cannot spell de Klerk must surely be an even bigger one!

    Now, where is my sjambok?

  486. 486

    I am so jealous…

    Yes, we all know.

  487. 487
    Chris says:

    Sadly, she was probably selling weapons to him, the previous day

  488. 488
  489. 489
    Betty Stringer says:

    The4 best piece of comment on Guido for a very long time – head and shoulders above the puerile stuff we too often see here.

  490. 490
    Bill says:

    By the end of Whte rule, South Africa was not only producing all its own arms but was also a major arms exporter. Some of it was the best in the world, notably the G-5 artillery piece.

  491. 491
    Bill says:

    I do wish people would stop using “apartheid” as a synonym for segregation/repression. It is an Afrikaans word and it means “partition”.

    If you want an example of apartheid in the British Isles, look no further than the partitioning off of a large chunk in the 1920s, to form the Irish Republic.

    Was that successful? Just ask yourself what would happen if we informed the Irish that we were going to abolish their apartheid, and that henceforth they would again be ruled from Westminster!

  492. 492

    We’d tell you to feck off out of our country.

  493. 493
    Anonymous says:

    How very true. Thanks for saying what so many people think.

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Alan Milburn says Labour’s scaremongering campaign for an unreformed NHS will not win election…

“It would be a fatal mistake, in my view, for Labour to go into this election looking as though it is the party that would better resource the National Health Service but not necessarily put its foot to the floor when it comes to reforming. Look, reforms are not easy, but the Labour Party is not a conservative party. It should be about moving things forward not preserving them in aspic. You have got a pale imitation actually of the 1992 general election campaign, and maybe it will have the same outcome. I don’t know.”

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