October 11th, 2013

Royal Charter: Well That Went Well Then


267 Comments

  1. 1
    Orson Cart says:

    1st.

    Like

  2. 2
    Democracy Now says:

    Who among us voted for the Privy Council?

    Like

  3. 4
    Keep Our Press Free says:

    That’s why I subscribed to The Spectator.

    Like

  4. 5
    Anonymous says:

    2nd

    Like

  5. 6
    *Bro-Fist* says:

    Whatever. Off to Webley to see England try/fail to kick a ball about. Tinker’s master is treating for my fiftieth, which is tomorrow. Happy Birthday to me.

    Like

    • 9
      My dog's cancer-ridden left testicle reads The Telegraph says:

      Your typing degenerates by the day.

      Like

    • 11
      My Other Van's A Comma says:

      Happy, Birthday, for tomorrow, E.
      Use them, or lose them.

      Like

    • 12
      Guido Fawkes says:

      Post on-topic, if at all possible.

      Happy Birthday, to whoever.

      Like

    • 13
      Elsie Beattie (83 and a quarter) says:

      My Reg, God remembers him, thought soccer a nancy-boy’s pastime. He much preferred netball.
      Happy Birthday, dear

      Like

      • 22
        Gidders says:

        Elsie dear, in netball the ball is not the only thing bouncing about

        Like

        • 24
          Gidders says:

          Rugby League is a man’s sport, they do not mess about

          Like

          • William Webb-Ellis says:

            “RU” sure about that?
            Give me a good ruck or maul anyday, you Northern poofter.

            Like

          • Gidders says:

            Now then you southern Jessie that I am, last time I watched union they spent all their time pulling each others shirts, an international at that. All the southerners I know that moved up to Leeds all went to league matches and then preferred it to Union, in any case up nuarth laddie, some clubs play both codes. Tell you what, go down to the Earls Court area and tell the Aussies that that you think League is rubbish, especially after they have consumed 12 pints, good luck, you’ll need it.
            A definition of Rugby Union, is a gentleman’s game played by idiots.
            A definition of Rugby League, is an idiots game played by gentlemen.

            Like

          • Dreary Steeples says:

            RU, God’s game for God’s people.

            Like

          • Gidders says:

            See the definitions above, ducky

            Like

    • 16
      Dave Figgley says:

      Ha ha, sunshine. Don’t get too wet.

      Must dash etc., mate……..

      Fifty? lol

      Like

    • 33
      first time reader says:

      Won’t venturing “outside” be rather petrifying, though?

      Like

    • 243
      Anonymous says:

      Im going to Wembley,where is Webley ?

      Like

  6. 7
    lescrompsblogg says:

    #free&reckless

    Like

  7. 8
    Lampshade says:

    Anyone willing to join an anti-democratic cartel like the Privy Council while pretending to be a freedom loving democrat is a fake and a humbug.

    Like

    • 45
      The wizz says:

      I was under the impression that the ‘Privy Council’ were selected by the monarch to advise, where a change in law would or would not gain approval. Since when are the said council put in place by the politicians?

      Like

      • 78
        Tom Catesby says:

        The appointment and role of the’privy council’, is just another facet of the great British constitutional myth.

        Like

      • 97
        Jethro says:

        45 …probably ever since politicians have smarmed their way into assuming not only the right to ‘advise’ the Monarch, but claiming that ‘the Constitution’ does not permit the Monarch to set aside that advice (she may say, ‘Are you sure?’ – meaning, ‘Oh not this old lunacy again! Go back and think through all the drawbacks, unintended consequences &c. Mr. Wilson thought this a bright idea – as did Mr. Heath several years later: it’s not very new, and it’s not very sensible – let alone very clever…) Who is our very own self-appointed ‘Constitutional Expert’? Norman Something-or-other (Lord Normal of Falsies?). How did he become the World Expert on The British Constitution? He read Walter Bagehot. How did Bagehot become an expert…? He was a journalist…
        As it stands, our ‘Constitution’ seems to be rather like a parody(?) of Primary Education, where the Expert stands aside, letting the Children (sorry: students) ‘discover’ (lest their ‘self-esteem’ be damaged), what the Expert has painstakingly set-up.
        Oliver Cromwell, like all Republicans, wanted to replace one Hereditary system with another; happily, his son Richard (‘Tumbledown Dick’) was widely seen as an even worse successor. So The Protestant Succession became a means not of securing religion, but of securing Politicians’ control: Cromwell had a King beheaded; General Monk welcomed ashore an appointed King…
        King George IIIrd’s porphyria (‘Madness’) provided (Whig) politicians the excuse they looked for even more to shackle their Monarch…
        But, of course, we are now truly represented by our Parliamentarians.

        Like

        • 194
          Anonymous says:

          Jethro, you become more boring each time you post.

          Like

          • Tabletop says:

            You must have been what is known as ‘educated’ under Labour if you are unable to interest yourself in a brief paragraph or two of historical facts.

            Stil, i spoz histry woznt tort at yoor skool.

            Like

  8. 10
    Peter Martin says:

    Looking at the story linked top right in complement, one may wonder if there could be a slight pause in the Graun and BBC’s enthusiasms for holdings to account…

    http://www.trendingcentral.com/toynbeeguardian-row-back-blaming-tories-baby-p-death/

    At least until normal, unique services can be resumed again as soon as matters that don’t suit have been squared away.

    Like

    • 60
      Universal Hiss says:

      The guardians (hafuckingha)of free speech have hidden that disgraceful article away.

      All they needed to do was wipe the DM headline,shoot Polly & all would be well.

      I’m looking forward to the BBC spending five days in faux outrage about this disgraceful piece of journalism.

      Quite funny Polly & the sub trying to defend the indefensible below the line.They were pulled apart by lefties.

      Good.

      Like

      • 62
        Casual Observer 4 says:

        I think Polly should do an ‘I’m Sorry’ video a la Nick Clegg for that piece she put out earlier.

        Trial by internet.

        Like

        • 102
          Bilda Berger says:

          She should go further and wear a carrier bag on her head, permanently. Paper would do, but plastic would be better.

          Like

    • 82
      NE Frontiersman says:

      Only knew about this story from seeing it here. Nowhere to be found in the Graun online: they’re censoring themselves now.

      Like

      • 92
        Universal Hiss says:

        You have to click on comment,scroll down a bit,find a horrific photo of Polly,click & it’s there in all it’s glory.

        Just think.It was on it’s front page a few hours ago until a load of lefties & a few righties & anyone with a semblance of decency got a bit outraged.

        What a fucking hypocritical rag it is.

        Like

    • 244
      Anonymous says:

      TABLETOP.Nobody want to read Dissertation length rants from people with too much time on their hands and a strange view of the world.Jethros comment was self indulgent and yours was childish in the extreme.

      Like

  9. 17
    Bill Quango MP -9 says:

    The Speccie should just sign up.
    Then ignore it.

    And if caught out just claim the Guardian defence.

    “We had only good motives so laws we don’t like don’t apply .”

    Like

  10. 19
    Owen Jones says:

    Thought for the weekend: Alcohol may not solve all your problems; but neither will milk or water.

    Like

    • 21
      There is Hope says:

      But you can drown in 3″ of any of them.

      Like

      • 65
        Universal Hiss says:

        How could anyone give a kitchen ceiling three coats of paint without being pissed?

        Too boring.Gives it a certain frisson wondering if/when you will fall off the ladder.

        Wipes paint off keyboard………

        Like

        • 220
          Elfin Safety Inspector says:

          We suggest that next time you do not use a ladder but a roller on a long broom handle or similar. This applies especially to Scottish vertigo sufferers.

          Like

    • 245
      Anonymous says:

      Its unlikely milk and water will kill you though.

      Like

  11. 23
    Mong Watch says:

    Suggestions ?

    Like

    • 28
      Socialism is a severe mental illness says:

      He can make any key points he likes on Channel 4 News, since no-one f*cking watches it (presumably because it has retards such as Owen Jones on it).

      Like

    • 29
      Gidders says:

      Owen my boy if you do not know what to say now you have no chance by 19.00

      Like

    • 30
      Andrew Efiong says:

      It’s a roaring success and let’s all wish the business well. A shame the government is still liable for the pensions though, taxpayers will be paying for a long time to cover this cushty, unfunded scheme.

      Like

    • 31
      Wittgenstein says:

      If you don’t know what you think, why are you putting yourself forward to discuss the topic? Greed? Vanity? Pure evil?

      Like

      • 38
        Socialism is a severe mental illness says:

        Maybe replace “pure evil” with “total stupidity”.

        Like

      • 39
        Bill Quango MP -9 says:

        Couldn’t they get someone who might know about sale of a public company? Someone who might know about privatisations? Someone who might know about finance, share dealing, assets, mail deliveries, national businesses that are responsible to a regulatory body?
        Senior business people from the UK? CEOs of major companies in the postal business like TNT or DHL? Former Royal Mail chairpersons such as Alan Leighton?
        Or if C4 decide the spokesperson actually knowing something about the subject might somehow unbalance the segment… then

        Why don’t they just get Peter Andre to do it?

        Like

      • 120
    • 49
      Expat Geordie says:

      Oh, how about that it might be a good idea since they should now be allowed to properly compete with the downstream access providers on a level playing field instead of seeing themselves priced out of the market by a bunch of foreigners.

      Other than that, can’t think of any good reason to do it.

      Personally, I’d keep it public and kick out DHL and TNT. After all, do you see Royal Mail being allowed to “compete” in Germany or Holland?

      Like

    • 53
      Wally Poynbee says:

      Thank you to mummy for letting me stay out late tonight.

      Like

    • 58
      Whowen Jones says:

      So instead of inviting on an expert, being either for or against, C4 invites an economic illiterate who doesn’t even know the difference between debt and deficit.

      Like

    • 64
      Pick litter for bennies says:

      You could say “after labours nhs i t cock up and Gordons fire sale of our gold this is small fry”.

      Like

    • 80
      Maq­boul says:

      Suggestions on a postcard, 2nd class.

      Like

      • 105
        Bilda Berger says:

        A 2nd class stamp now costs TWELVE SHILLINGS!

        When I were a lad we worked down pit for 3/- a year, and still had enough left over to buy scrag end for the whippets, etc., etc.

        Like

    • 84
      NE Frontiersman says:

      If he needs to ask, his opinions can’t be worth much on the topic, surely?

      Like

  12. 25
    Hollandazed says:

    In an interview with RT in July, Le Pen proposed tighter border controls for France, which she described as “bankrupt” and “with a rocketing unemployment rate.”

    On Sunday, in a first round of voting, in a by-election in Brignoles in southern France, the National Front gained the lead with 40.4 percent.

    Like

  13. 26
    Andrew Efiong says:

    24th

    Like

  14. 27
    Hollandazed says:

    In an interview with RT in July, Le Pen proposed tighter border controls for France, which she described as “b-a-n-k-r-u-p-t” and “with a rocketing unemployment rate.”

    On Sunday, in a first round of voting, in a by-election in Brignoles in southern France, the National Front gained the lead with 40.4 percent.

    Like

  15. 32
    Dr Ananda says:

    I feel like I’m in a nightmare where the government’s decisions are the complete opposite of everything I value. Every day for the past 3 and a half years I’m left disgusted at the self-interest and ethical sadism of the elite in our country.

    It’s time Tory voters stopped pretending they care about others and just got honest – millions of lives will be ruined by this government. And all the while the richest are given tax breaks and the bankers are defended by the government.

    They weren’t even elected!

    Like

    • 77
      REALWORLDER says:

      EVERYBODY wants lower taxes, except you apparently, if you’re so keen I am sure the Inland Revenue will be happy to arrange it so that you can pay my share

      Like

    • 81
      Maq­boul says:

      Doctor I prescribe a year in Venezuela or some such other third word socialist hell hole. You’ll be begging to come back to wet nurse Britain where you can have our arse wiped by the government from morning till noon. You know nothing.

      Like

      • 131
        Gidders says:

        Can You imagine Gideon wiping the backsides of Alzheimers patients, not a chance, I wonder if he even changed the nappies on his sprogs when they were young.

        Like

        • 246
          Anonymous says:

          It never ceases to amaze me what bonkers subjects people post on. on here.! WTF gives a toss about how many nappies the Chancellor of the Exchequer changed when his kids were young ! Does that sort of comment make inadequates feel they are superior to high achievers as they sit on their arses all day ?

          Like

        • 261
          REALWORLDER says:

          Why should he ,that’s the nanny’s job.

          Like

    • 114

      Alzheimer’s must be setting in. You posted this on the last page.

      Mind you, I can’t really blame you. Who would not want to remember the thirteen years of the Reign of Labour Terror?

      Like

    • 142
      Bluto says:

      I felt like that for 13 years from 1997 to 2010. Welcome to the club.

      Like

  16. 34
    M103 says:

    Is George Osborne a sadomasochist? He was found in his younger days to be dating a dominatrix according to the Daily Mail. Osborne is a horrible little guttersnipe if ever I saw one.

    Like

    • 37
      Casual Observer 4 says:

      Maybe, but remember that some of those stories sourced from Mc’Bride so should perhaps be taken with a bit of salt.

      Like

    • 247
      Anonymous says:

      M103—–What sort of Pervert sends comments to Guido Fawkes on subjects like that anyway ? its not normal to sit at a computer thinking about the sex lives of Politicians, Unless you are a real Saddo !

      Like

      • 259
        Gidders says:

        What politicos do in private that is their business but all commentators do it, the Sun, NotW (as was), Geedoe has done it, all the red tops in Fleet street did it, but if a politico constantly rails against something and then it is proven that they indulge in what they railed about, they are fair game. Of course there is the case of Bonking Boris quite openly playing fast and loose, but he is not bothered anyway.

        Like

  17. 36
    Keep Calm, Vote UKIP says:

    The day before the 7- Up, two before the most important column in politics, and three before the cryptic cartoon, there is: Farage on Friday

    Worth a read ;-)

    Like

  18. 43
    Owain Jones says:

    Looks like the Tories are running scared of Labour and Ed’s energy announcement and the living standards s narrative. I think they realise Labour have hit the perfect pitch for the next election that nullifies the their claims that the economy is all OK again due to the piddling growth figures after so much pain by ordinary people.

    Like

  19. 44
    EU Watch says:

    EU Agenda meeting resistance in M’oldova:

    http://twitter.com/moldovaorg/status/388614762138853376

    There is a p’edo dimension to this in that the agenda is partly seen as a means for making under aged sex legal – according to R’uss!an observers.

    The police stepped in with force against protesters who had children with them.

    Like

    • 148
      Klaus Henchmann says:

      If you read Marx you will see the anti-family agenda is driven by the pro-pedo and anti-Christian minority.

      Like

      • 224
        Brane Ded says:

        So why was Marx buried in a Christian cemetery instead of just being chucked out with the garbage?

        Like

  20. 51
    Owain Jones says:

    On the same day that we hear that the Red Cross are distributing food parcels to this country for the first time since WW2, the queen gets a rise because she’s a bit skint (down to last million). They’re not even bothering to disguise their hatred of the poor now.

    Still 18 months before we can eject these traitors to the British people.

    Like

    • 63
      An Illegal immigrant says:

      The Red Cross has been quietly distributing all sorts of goodies to illegal immigrants so they can stay in Britain for years. Now we are going to have to share it with the locals. Isn’t that discrimination?

      Like

      • 128
        Jack Ketch says:

        The Red Cross only got £154,000 from Comic Relief last year, “Women seeking Asylum” got £210,000–other immigrant oriented groups in the UK got £2,000,000

        Like

      • 225
        Basic Economics Vol 1 says:

        Just saved myself 50 quid by cancelling the direct debit. Add that to the 150 I saved by not paying the telly tax and I now have enough saved to keep in in fags for a few months.

        Like

    • 67
      UKIP or bust says:

      Get gordron back, he can sell off the rest of the gold, take away the last remaining pensions, invent another 300 stealth taxes and top up the beggars, scrap metal thieves, leaflet posters and other assorted riffraff to use up the last of our resources.

      Then it’s job done socialist utopia here we com jon ill.

      Like

      • 90
        Taken for fools says:

        Wait to you hear this one.
        Roma in Belfast have taken to hanging thier washing out on the front garden walls of the houses they get free from the taxpayer, much to the disgust of the long term locals who have to pay their own bills.
        So, instead of telling the selfish thoughtless scroungers to show some respect to their neighbours and host community, the local charities use their funds to buy them a load of clothes horses.

        Have you ever heard the like of it.

        Like

        • 103
          Aechmophorus says:

          Practical, though.

          200 clothes horses at £10 each ……. £2000
          Setting up police washing patrol …… £500,000 and rising

          Like

        • 132
          Expat Geordie says:

          I thought that the locals, in a rare instance of inter-religious unity, had reverted to type, dug up a few “decommissioned” weapons, and sorted out the Roma “problem”, which resulted in the British taxpayer picking up the tab to fly the poor darlings home. I didn’t realise that they had gone back.

          Like

    • 88
      Maq­boul says:

      Why can’t we eject the poor instead? They do fuck all for this country except whine about not getting enough of other people’s money. Kick them out to India where they’ll find that they are not poor anymore but actually rich. But give the useless mewling fuckers one way tickets. If they want to come back they’ll have to pay for it and wait their turn like all the other immigrants.

      Like

      • 134
        Gidders says:

        “wait their turn like all the other immigrants.” Maq­boul, that sounds a foreign type of moniker.

        Like

      • 169
        Casual Observer 4 says:

        Not a very libertarian approach.

        Perhaps better to prevent the UK system from keeping the poor locked in a state of dependency and create an economic environment where they can become self sufficient and improve their lot ?

        See T’hatcher for details :-)

        Like

      • 232
        Anonymous says:

        Why don’t you jump off a cliff you deranged fucking asshole. We fucking fought back people like you in WW2.

        If you don’t like it here then piss off to another country you fucking toss-pot.

        Before you start i do work as well.

        Fucking cocksucker

        Like

    • 187
      Trough Watch says:

      Sir Nick Young, the chief executive of the British Red Cross, snuffles away some £184,000 a year.

      Like

    • 250
      Anonymous says:

      Its a disgrace that people in the UK are being given food parcels, wtf are they doing eith theit benefits ?

      Like

  21. 52
    Dave"The One Term Prime Minister" Cameron says:

    Garlic Chiken Tikka Bhoona, Fried Rice, Keema Nan and plenty Cobras….. Nom Nom Nom …… Jaldi Jaldi I should cocoa.

    Like

  22. 54
    Genghiz the kahn says:

    Adam Smith summed it up well:

    “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public.”

    Like

  23. 55
    Expat Geordie says:

    http://www.arrse.co.uk/current-affairs-news-analysis/205117-end-arrse.html

    A bit of scary news from Europe via the Army Rumour Service. Websites which allow anonymous posts are going to be liable for the comments. The end of “free speech” as we know it.

    Of course, being a technical illiterate it looks like you will have to play with the link a bit.

    Like

    • 57
      Expat Geordie says:

      Bloody hell, I got the link to work – first time ever.

      Anyway, I recently saw the EU flag described as “The Star Spangled Sphincter”.

      Like

  24. 59
    EU Watch says:

    A new political party has publicly emerged in Spa!n: Part!do X

    In a similar way to !taly’s 5 Star, Part!do-X has been incubating in social media for a while now. That is where the comparison ends.

    They describe themselves as being a centrist party wishing to remove corruption from public office and public life: The children of the ‘indignados’, ready to express the anger of the indignados and return ‘sovereign power to the citizens’ of Spa!n.

    (Indignados was the party which is considered to be forerunner of the Occupy movement)

    On their web site they define ‘logic’ to be their political ideology, and state that the language most spoken by their members is Castilian. For english speakers this implies they are mainly northern / central span!sh.

    h**p://noticias.lainformacion.com/asuntos-sociales/el-partido-x-recurre-a-la-financiacion-colectiva-para-lanzar-su-evento-de-presentacion_muaDoT5mP6ovrebBWpuQ/

    In Span!sh, but they speak about ending the economic crisis in Spa!n by increasing taxes on the rich, restoring the ‘right to take a life of dignity’.

    They seem very keen to eliminate f’raud, which is a populist angle in Spa!n at the moment.

    They seem to be a center left socialist group with mainly middle class support.

    Interestingly they are currently funding their activities online using crowd funding.

    Like

  25. 66
    EU Watch says:

    Belg!an Firemen protesting:

    http://www.nowthisnews.com/news/fireman-belgium-battle/?utm_source=newsroom&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=newsroom

    Funny video, and good way to deal with the police.

    Like

  26. 69
    Thrill Seeker says:

    I had a look at the link about Clegg being funny. He isn’t.

    Like

  27. 71
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    All that needs to happen is for the “press freedom” minded publications to refuse to sign up en masse. In addition to the Spectator one assumes this would include the Telegraph, Times, Mail, Sun at least and possibly the Express, FT and Economist.

    The Guardian is hopelessly compromised over Snowden – it would be delicious to see Rusbridger prosecuted over that and the Indy is just insignificant.

    What is Matron Miller going to do?

    Shut them all down?

    Cameron – plum that he is – seems content to be led by the nose by Hacked Off and Labour.

    He is a political blancmange.

    Like

    • 79
      Ex Longterm Tory Supporter says:

      Dave is an incompetent gay loving lying bastard

      Like

      • 91
        Just Me says:

        there’s only SUPPOSED to be 1 % of the populatin GAY.
        WTF is he happy to lose the next election for a proportion of 1 % ???

        Like

    • 89
      Just Me says:

      Miller would have been reshuffled / sacked it she hadn’t had this on her desk.

      Like

      • 93
        Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

        Miller is one of the worst Tory ministers in living memory – and I can remember Traitor Heath

        Like

        • 98
          Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

          Actually thinking about it further Maria Miller reminds me of Fat Jacqui – too stupid to do the job she’s been appointed to so she ends up being the sock puppet of the PM.

          Like

        • 118
          Sir William Waid says:

          Well, if she will dress and act like Dolores Umbridge, what can you expect?

          Like

  28. 72
    Tony, People's Messiah says:

    C*ck! Since when did applying for £300,000 of RM shares label you as an undeserving steward?

    Like

  29. 87
    Confused says:

    “”Lack of rain can mean no new crabs””

    And I thought it was down to Brazillians

    Like

  30. 95
    Kinnochio says:

    I’VE GOT MY PARTY BACK !!

    Like

    • 99
      Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

      Ha Ha Ha

      Len you red-faced fat cnut – that is not praise.

      Like

      • 107
        • 124
          Universal Hiss says:

          The cliche damning with faint praise seems to suit.

          I’d like to see Chuka in a donkey jacket.

          Perhaps Paul Smith could get his tape measure out.

          Like

          • Universal Hiss says:

            Oh a moderated comment.

            I wonder what set off the mod bot this time?

            I didn’t mention rice & peas.

            Like

          • Blowing Whistles says:

            Hello UH – you know all that stuff about the Privy Council like …. well I was just thinking wasn’t Chris Huhne a member of that ‘elite’ band until recently – says it all really don’t it?

            Do the Privy Council meet in a star shaped chamber?

            Like

          • BBC NORMAN says:

            Like

          • Blowing Whistles says:

            Yes got that UH – yours at 9:46 to mine of 9:36 to your orig at 9:06 pm.

            It’s nice to not be a number occasionally. Rupe and his shysters are still an evil bunch of duplicitous bastards though. Oh and so are most of the elderly wigged ones in the UK too.

            Did you know that Juries are being duplicitously misled about how powerful they really are in the UK and that the issue is ‘being fucking addressed’?

            Like

          • Universal Hiss says:

            Hello BW.

            I’m taken by surprise every now & then by the modbot oddities.

            It’s silly when it’s one of my usual throw away comments.

            No biggie.

            Like

          • Hey Senorita says:

            @UH: The correct spelling is Pawl if you want to avoid the evil eye on your musings.

            Like

    • 126
      Ian Volk, Ian Reich says:

      ‘hails’……Is that One Nation Socialism speak ??? ?

      Like

  31. 96
    Man from the Street says:

    Farage must have the patience of a saint.

    Like

    • 125
      Casual Observer 4 says:

      Weird editing.

      It is quite a good interview to watch as the interviewer demonstrates the confused thinking that many people have on the EU issue. Her interruptions are instructive: What is odd is that she doesn’t understand Nigel’s arguments.

      Like

    • 260
      Anonymous says:

      What a silly bitch.

      Watch the full version:

      Like

  32. 106

    Cristina Kirchner has been in hospital.

    Nothing trivial, I hope.

    Like

  33. 108
    US Watch says:

    This perhaps is a little ‘off message':

    The 48 Questions issue is ‘red herring’ : She was following lawyer advice.

    In P’ortugal, a witness has to answer police questions. A’guido has the right not to.

    Another fact about A’guido’s in P’ortugal: They have the right to request at any time that a closed case they had that status in be re-opened.

    Good demonstration of how relative societal norms, particularly in interpreting peoples actions in criminal investigations can be mis-interpreted, and thoroughly distorted through the media lens.

    Also revealing in how an ex-prosecutor regards a suspect who has exercised the 5th.

    The 48 Q’s:

    http://tinyurl.com/bvym58j

    The libel trial in P’ortugal is looking more sunk after the most recent evidence given.

    Cameron’s involvement is intriguing.

    Like

    • 129

      Your opinion as to the following:

      1. What was the McCanns involvement in this disappearance?

      2. If answer to 1. is not none, what could have caused them to take what action might be alleged against them?

      3. How clever, intelligent, cunning, dispassionate do you regard each of them and might that be as a result of their professional training?

      4. What psychological conditions are at work here?

      In other words, put societal norms aside for now and let’s look at them as people.

      All sorts of prominent people have become involved. It has made no difference but to prolong the entire episode but has turned it into an industry of its own.

      I freely admit, I have not a clue about culpability here but am repulsed by the different stands taken by each side, so I tend to ignore it. and deal with that I know better.

      Like

      • 135
        Universal Hiss says:

        5.I don’t care about this at all.

        A media circus from the start that I was very uneasy about.

        I stepped away then & will do so now. It all makes me shudder & raise eyebrows in many directions.

        I don’t think it’s possible to find anything near the truth after this length of time & with the total distortion of press utterances & police failures.

        Like

        • 149
          US Watch says:

          No police failure, and yes: The med!a involvement top to bottom were off. (The M’edia after all turned RM’s life upside down for no reason)

          The actions of the broader family, law firms and pressure groups is where the real evil lays.

          In summary:

          Girl died, covered up, parents wanted distraction to get the hell out whilst preserving their family.

          Family + certain sections of media / law / PR types, saw a $ making opportunity.

          All works if you keep everyone on the outside hoping the girl is alive. Abhorrent to those without when you realize that those selling the hope accepted she was dead ages ago. But still took your money.

          Top to bottom: Awful, and likely legal.

          Like

      • 146
        US Watch says:

        The PJ documents (online) need to be read alongside some of the qualified information on legal forums discussing this case technically. This is important to form an objective view and understand what is going on. The case should be seen from a P’ortuguese legal perspective only.

        There are no sides. This was a criminal matter, the libel is a civil.

        1. What was the McCanns involvement in this disappearance?

        The conclusion the PJ came to. Unless fresh evidence emerges this is the conclusion. Any other suggestion is speculation.

        2. If answer to 1. is not none, what could have caused them to take what action might be alleged against them?

        There is no explanation for that, as per the PJ conclusion. This can only change if fresh credible evidence comes to light.

        3. How clever, intelligent, cunning, dispassionate do you regard each of them and might that be as a result of their professional training?

        This is personal opinion: Their professional training itself would not have prepared them for this.

        Their professional training may have made it easier for them to deal with the shock and handling of a cadaver. They would also have knowledge of child protection procedures which may have triggered other actions to have been taken. This is speculation, but the PJ made repeated points that they appeared to be engaged more in ‘damage limitation’ when aspects of the witness statements fell apart.

        The media projection of dispassion, particularly for K’ate was on professional guidance. Initial shock would have left both numb after initial pan!c. From then on they were instructed to present no emotion in interviews as that could have put the child at risk of her abductors. (At the time that was the working assumption)

        This is where looking only through the media lens without understanding what the lens is projecting is dangerous as it will lead the viewer to make erroneous conclusions.

        4. What psychological conditions are at work here?

        Unless they are psychopath, initially extreme shock, and fear. Fear primarily of the UK authorities rather than P’ortuguese. (See child protection above)

        Psychological evaluations of the parents took place in 2008, over a year after the incident, so accurately knowing what their state of mind at the time was is based on hearsay. ie. We do not know.

        Your point about prominent people being involved is relevant.

        There was perhaps more cock up than conspiracy: They contacted the med!a first, and then things snowballed. This culminated in parents, broader family and third parties realizing there were $ to be made.

        Once that cycle started it could not be stopped without undermining the initial untruths which the PJ had detected.

        This is one aspect of how PR management undermined the investigation at the time, and also locked them into a certain path.

        The co-opting by H’acked O’ff of this case for their agenda is perhaps the pinnacle.

        There is very likely good grounds for a fraud case to be initiated in the UK. This is to do with the parents early documented acceptance of the child’s death, contrasted with the public appeals for $ at the time.

        The way in which the fund was set up and administered is also suspect. Would point you to check out the ‘objects’ of the Ltd company, and the lack of transparency in accounting ledger items. Also that an Ltd rather than charitable trust was set up is notable.

        The fraud is not limited to K+G: If one looks at the directors a picture emerges.

        At present the P’ortugeuse case is closed and as far as those authorities are concerned the parents have no criminal case to answer.

        One should perhaps ask why the emergency funds of Met special investigation have been tapped. The UK police would have been better to focus their resources on the p’edophile investigations ongoing in the UK.

        My personal opinion on this:

        The P’ortugeuese have investigated and concluded they are no danger, were not responsible for the death, and the cover up is likely but not worth pursuing. If new evidence shows up which forces the case to be reopened, or an A’guido wants to reopen, then they will do so, but otherwise this is finished from their point of view.

        UK authorities: Perhaps want to avoid the embarrassment of a UK fraud investigation given the history, and officers are happy to be working on this case using emergency funds. It is a waste of time unless it provides new credible evidence strong enough for the P’ortuguese to want to reopen the case.

        K+G : Accepted M is dead, and are only interested in $. They could ask for the case to be reopened, but prefer to pursue a completely flawed libel case. They are trapped now, and losing the libel case will perhaps finish them.

        The hangers on: C’larence M’itchell is Con candidate for Brighton in 2015, and C’ameron is still dealing with L’eveson fall out. A line needs to be drawn under this. Certain L’ondon law firms have made a lot of $ out of this, and are complicit.

        There will be more fall out, but one suspects, not what many will expect.

        Like

        • 152
          Bloke from Fast Show says:

          Anyone fancy a pint?

          Like

          • Universal Hiss says:

            After reading US Watch’s post, mine’s a pint of absinthe.

            I bloody well knew I shouldn’t have read it. Paint fumes on the brain.(Mine that is.God knows what s/he’s running on.)

            Like

        • 183

          Thank you for your fulsome reply. Here is a dilemma of life! What you say makes perfect sense to me, it holds together. At the same time, I know what it is like to be accused of something you know you are innocent of. The danger is being emotionally involved, you do not easily stay dispassionate (hence that part of my question) and that can count against your case. I was fortunate but it could have been otherwise.

          So unless some definite evidence is uncovered, I am willing to leave an area of doubt in my mind. The prospect of innocent parents being held guilty for the murder of their own child is a ghastly prospect and this possibility masks the position for the real abductor/murderer all too effectively thus adding to the injustice.

          Sometimes the best investigations and the best analysis turns out to be flawed. It happens. Not only are people innocent before being proven guilty but anyone taking that viewpoint is surely acting decently and morally, however misled they might turn out to be. This is one thing on which we cannot blame the public.

          Now we come to the libel trial. I ask myself if this does not point in the direction of the motives you suggest. Would the real grieving parents follow such a route? I think not. Here, as already indicated, I see an industry at work. As you say, the lawyers are probably dealing legally here regardless of what they think, or even know. That does not concern me here as I am focusing solely on K+G for this exercise. The temptation was too great.

          You did not address the clever, intelligent, cunning part of Q3. I can’t imagine that they thought this route out, if this is all a put up job as seems increasingly likely, but they ran along with it and must have taken the agenda over from them. There appear to be elements of Dostoyevsky’s Crime and Punishment at work here. Indeed the eventual dénouement may turn out to be similar.

          Could you give me your thoughts on that missing bit and on what else I have set out here?

          Like

          • US Watch says:

            No one suggests ‘murder’, in particular not the PJ: No foul play.

            They did get emotional as well, off camera. This is documented in the PJ files.

            For intelligence: That is not really important here. The circumstantial is compelling though as a result of their professions. Being smart is not a crime.

            Consider the timing: Minimum was done for damage limitation – changing some aspects of the scene, making certain assertions and embellishments to statements which did not add up or were disproved later by forensic examination, or witness changing their story.

            This would have been done on the fly as the contradictions indicate. But this does not point to serious foul play, which is why the PJ went no further. It is relatively normal as well.

            Staging an abduction, as PJ believe happened, is supported primarily by the alteration of the crime scene which took place, and how events unfolded from when the alarm was raised until the scene was secured.

            This takes into account the actions of K+G in the hours after, such as mobile calls to UK, apparent alterations to mobile phone call records, not going out to search for the missing girl, and the mainly false statements from the so called ‘Tapas 9′. No one is suggesting an ‘Orient Express’ scenario either.

            The media involvement and what happened next, including the fund, are very separate events. Think of this like the planes hitting the towers, and then an hour later the towers fell down. Very separate events, but through media lens easy to conflate.

            For the libel trial, check on the net for the proceedings. Twitter is friend here for J’erry L’awton and UK J’ustice F’orum’s coverage. It is looking like a losing case.

            NB: They are seeking GBP 1m, but split 4 ways between family members. Check the directorships on the fund Ltd for correlation.

            The PJ investigation was thorough and every bit as good as a UK investigation. Check the online case files to confirm. There was a lot of political pressure from the UK on P’ortugal at the time, but this is claimed not to have interfered by the PJ.

            The financial issues of the fund and the libel do not point to any premeditated motive that would support foul play at the outset. There is no evidence to support, and is incredible conjecture.

            That the Mc’Cann’s might be being coerced into the libel by less than honorable lawyers, and some degree of personal greed, is credible, but is not on the face of it illegal.

            Would mention with the talk of a ‘couple’ now being involved in the abduction, this may illuminate as to where this apparently new twist has come from:

            h**p://tinyurl.com/5urfvxz

            A UK social worker who works in child protection and made contact. Will give a limited but good insight into how social services operate, and why the Mc’Cann’s were likely concerned about their involvement at a later date.

            As for why this is being dragged up again now absent real new evidence ? Cui bono perhaps should be considered, and it isn’t really in the interests of K+G.

            Like

        • 196

          BTW. By each side, I had meant K+G and the media/lawyer charabanc.

          I accept totally what you said about no sides regarding the issue of law, leaving aside the technicality of state vs. accused.

          Like

  34. 109
    Ed Dafty, LimpDim MP, Climate Change Chieftain says:

    LIES, DAMNED LIES AND LIBDEM LIES

    Like

  35. 137
    The British media are cunts says:

    In the eyes of the BBC you’re not English unless black or Muslim.

    Like

  36. 139
    The British media are cunts says:

    Like

  37. 143
    Me says:

    Since when could the press opt out of the law?

    Like

    • 153
      Universal Hiss says:

      They don’t. Well they do but a prosecution under the plethora of laws on the statute book is only as good as the prosecution.

      If you are looking at politicians to make good law then all bets are off.

      Like

      • 173
        Blowing Whistles says:

        While Parliament remains “infested” with legals who use their legal cloaks, connections and Parliamentary get outs to hide their wrongdoings their trade in legalese will continue to subvert the rule of law.

        Have they turned Parliament into a private chamber of private law – in order to subvert the inalienable rights of the British people?

        Like

        • 234
          R U Pistov 2 says:

          Undoubtedly. Hence all the exemptions they grant themselves which do not apply to the rest of the population. Time for piano wire on/under Blackfriars or Westminster Bridge.

          Like

  38. 144
    Polly Toynbee is shit in human form says:

    Shameful propaganda on bbc1, aka Citizen Khan, portraying a cuddly harmless muslim family. Utter shit. Good old beeb, being useful idiots in service of this terrorist religion. Maybe they should do an accurate episode of this shitcom, one in which the daughter is mutilated and then killed for refusing to marry her first cousin, the father grooms and rápes underage english girls and the son goes to a muslim school where they’re taught that all non-muslims are kuffars who deserve to die.

    Like

  39. 147
    Herman van Rumpboy says:

    WTF !!

    Like

    • 175
      watcher says:

      Or, to put it simply, Merkel plays the UK’s government for mugs again.

      Like

      • 235
        R U Pistov 2 says:

        Or maybe – just maybe – Merky has finally got the message that her countrymen and women are fed up to the back teeth of all the commend and control crap that emanates daily from Brussels which they are largely paying for. She was very lucky to scrape that win in the recent election. A chink in the armour at last?

        Like

      • 237
        I B Pistov 2 says:

        Replied but moddingtonbot seems to be in a tetchy mood this morning.

        Like

  40. 150
    Bloomers says:

    Like

    • 151
      Universal Hiss says:

      Bollocks.

      Like

    • 159
      Bob Fleming says:

      Something fishy going on here

      Like

      • 161
        Casual Observer 4 says:

        Tommy is suspected to be paid for by MI-5 in some circles.

        He is a nice chap, and is trying to dish some dis-info on UKIP.

        Credible ? If the E-D-L had an average membership age of 60, then yes, but I do not recall seeing many blue-rinse members giving the UAF a kicking recently.

        Like

        • 170
          Calling the braindead, LibLabCons needs you says:

          2014 next year, 2015 the year after, the LibLabCons are getting very worried, it’s past worry time and is time to replace the LibLabCon management, so playing dirty is easier than replacing management, UKIP is going to be hit from all sides by the corrupt LibLabCons who have grown use to troughing and won’t want to give up easily.

          Like

          • Universal Hiss says:

            Exactly whats happening in Scotland with the independence debate.

            Fuck facts. Lets go for disinformation & smears.

            The next year is going to get very nasty.

            Like

    • 165
      Rev I M Jolly says:

      He’s so obviously a shill for MI5

      Like

      • 238
        Burghers are bad for you says:

        Is that why he kept getting himself arrested for ‘just walking down the street’?

        Like

  41. 154
    Polly is insane says:

    It’s official then. Baby P didn’t die because of his sociopathic degenerate mother and her violent mentally sub-normal boyfriend, enabled by incompetent social workers and a hospital doctor who failed to notice broken ribs, he died because of Tory cuts.

    Like

    • 157
      Sofa man says:

      Labour Tory cuts to be precise.

      Like

    • 166
      The BBC are cunts says:

      It was Fatchur’s fault.

      Like

    • 176
      Universal Hiss says:

      I’ve gone back to the start of 1,000+ comments & read a couple of pages.

      What depresses me most is the failure to grasp the issue & the bombastic & antagonistic rhetoric that is party political posturing.

      Life must be very simple if you have left wing convictions. If in doubt shout & smear but remain smug at all costs.

      Same goes for the righties but they tend not to be so personal in their abuse.Must be an opening there.

      Like

  42. 162
    Owain Jones says:

    There are certainly no HARD WORKING PEOPLE in Downing Street, just lots of Chillaxing Public School Boys

    Like

    • 171
      Socialism is a severe mental illness says:

      Remember the deputy PM Prescott playing croquet?

      No? You too young?

      Bless!

      Like

    • 172
      How come socialists don't contribute to society? says:

      Have you ever done any hard work in your life, Owen?

      Ed Miliband hasn’t. You haven’t.

      Like

  43. 163
    David Cameron says:

    Behind in the polls and unlikely to be re-elected.

    Ok, how do we reverse this?

    A good old war in Syria? No can do. Parliament blocked it.

    Some ‘go home’ posters? Hmmm, even UKIP think that’s going too far.

    Keep saying you are for hard-working people. Nope, they’re just not buying it.

    Ok, how about tax breaks for hard-married people? Voters aren’t that stupid.

    I’ve got it. Another miracle recovery fuelled by another housing bubble. Aren’t I clever? …..that might just work

    Like

  44. 164
    'Gypsy' Dave Cooper says:

    Like

  45. 168
    anon says:

    Why do so many refugee boats capsize? Could`t be purposely to attract saviours and the full works thereafter. For $5k, you would expect something seaworthy.

    Like

  46. 174
    Benny Fitz-Clements says:

    Like

    • 178
      PC Madness says:

      Surprised they still allow the “b” word.

      Like

    • 179
      Universal Hiss says:

      There is that word again,believe.

      It’s a favourite of George Smith.

      I believe in the holy roman church,the deliverance of sins etc.

      It doesn’t make it fact or true.

      Like

      • 186

        …and the resurrection of the Pastafarian noodly appendages. :-)

        Like

        • 197
          Universal Hiss says:

          Amen.

          I presume that’s the correct response.

          Like

          • The proper form of final affirmation is R’amen, it being a portmanteau of Amen and Ramen the Japanese noodle dish.

            Coming from what is probably a Presbyterian area, you are, of course, forgiven.

            Like

          • Universal Hiss says:

            Crossed times but you forgot I’m a “new Scot”, born & bred in deepest Shropshire.

            It has been interesting living in an area of wee frees. There were 7 different meeting halls in a village of less than 1,500 souls,down to a mere 5 now.

            You want schisms? Here is the place.

            I haven’t pointed & laughed more in my life,outside politics that is.

            Like

          • I had not forgotten that at all.

            But the Wee Frees are of course a Presbyterian denomination and you will have been breathing in their air and been affected by the spores! Your Slopshire heritage cannot save you I am afraid, short of wearing a colander day and night… :-)

            Like

      • 201
        Universal Hiss says:

        Thinking about it (again)I didn’t understand why as a Primitive Methodist(shunted to Sunday School & there for hatches & dispatches sort of stuff) I had to swear allegiance to the holy roman church? I thought this was odd at about ten years old.

        I did like Sunday School as they gave you sweeties & if you could recite some fairy stories you were presented with nice bookmarks.It did get boring after a while because the same bloke featured on every one.

        I left religion behind but still have a fondness for bookmarks.

        Like

    • 182
      Small Business says:

      Good. Businesses which are legal have to compete with those with their toes in the black economy. A race to the bottom that has to stop.

      Like

    • 214
      I am dumb Ken Smith and I also believe in the Tooth Fairy says:

      It is vital that jobs in the black economy are released and thereby made available to the millions of new immigrants who are so desperate to enrich the UK.

      Like

  47. 181
    Incapable Vince, deputy Chief Cockroach says:

    THAT HONOUR BELONGS TO ME…

    Like

  48. 188
    Fight the Flab with Fatbott says:

    Like

    • 200
      Blowing Whistles says:

      Give it up dabbott – you have become one of the biggest political joke figures of all time – on a par with presclott. The more you try to sound sincere the more people are laughing their nuts off at you – just give it up and retire you pathetic woman.

      Like

    • 203
      Too many tweets make a twatbott says:

      No favourites I notice. Expect a small turnout.

      Like

    • 205
      Universal Hiss says:

      She probably has an app on her i lotsofpadding phone showing all the nearest fast food/baker outlets.

      That is really mean but I’m going to post it anyway.

      Like

    • 239
      Burghers are bad for you says:

      Why meet outside the bagel bakery? Do we need tickets to get in. Mine’s a salmon and tomato bagel please.

      Like

  49. 191
    Displaced Brummie says:

    Please remember that THIS is what Hacked Off is really all about:-

    It’s to Grant Hugh some privacy, don’t you know!

    Like

  50. 208
    Universal Hiss says:

    I’m surprised the Guardian did this……….

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/12/left-daily-mail-paul-dacre

    Feeling the heat?

    Will be funny to read the comments tomorrow.

    Like

  51. 212
    Anonymous says:

    Happy Birthday.

    You silly old cow.

    Like

  52. 215
  53. 241

    In the case of Delfi AS v. Estonia (European Court of Human Rights application no. 64569/09) regarding online comments made on websites, only three of the seven judges were from full EU member states. Other judges included persons from Azerbaijan, Russia and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, under a Monégasque President, which countries do not have comparable systems of law to the already disparate ones existing within member states. Why should these judges be given any competency in this case?

    Is the court outsourcing to cheaper parts of the world, as if justice was similar to running a telephone help-line? Perhaps they ought to include judges from The X Factor?

    This is surely a good enough reason in itself for withdrawing from the European Court of Human Rights. This case does not directly impact on our citizens and websites but its judgement does.

    Like

  54. 253
    The Queen of Hearts says:

    Off with their heads!

    Like

  55. 266


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