September 2nd, 2013

Why Mansion Tax is Electoral Suicide

Knight Frank has crunched the numbers and calculated that to raise the target £2 billion, the mansion tax would have to start at £1.25 million, hitting 775,000 households. This would of course be levied overwhelmingly on London and the South East, 86.4% of the properties affected would fall in these areas. Calling it a “mansion” tax is grossly disingenuous too:  just 36% of these “mansions” are detached. 31% are terraced, 22% are flats and 11% semi-detached. Is a terraced house in Merton or Wandsworth, like the one above, really a mansion? 

The table below shows the top ten local authorities with the highest number of homes that would be affected by the mansion tax:

Click to enlarge.

If he has any sense Tory chairman Grant Shapps is right now crafting a mailshot to every single one of those 775,000 homeowners…


116 Comments

  1. 1
    Sandra in Accounts says:

    This is about “tax creep”

    It sets the precedent – your property that you own is not yours. The Government seeks a “rent” from you to own your own home.

    This is a disgusting tax – almost as bad as the grave robbing Inheritance Tax.

    I have an idea – instead of finding new ways to tax us, why not cut the size of the state & live within the means of the taxpayer?

    Like

    • 2
      Carry Hole is a porcine homunculus says:

      Er Actually it’s by far the most supported and capitalist tax.

      Like

      • 3
        Carry Hole is a porcine homunculus says:

        Income and sales taxes being the least.

        Like

      • 16
        LooseHeadProp says:

        Doh! Of course it is – vast majority of people see it as a tax they don’t have to pay which falls on ‘the rich’. Just because lots of people support something doesn’t mean it’s right.

        Like

        • 22
          Carry Hole is a porcine homunculus says:

          Er. The benefit of living in those houses is created by the state so the state can quite rightly charge for that.

          It’s pretty basic economics.

          You know, Adam Smith, David Ricardo…

          Like

          • Casual Observer says:

            In this case I think it is the state admitting that the wealth created through asset price inflation in housing is illusory, and they want to prevent this being a source of inflation in the real economy.

            The problem is that people regard the gains in housing as being something they have somehow created and have earned fairly.

            That adjustment in perception is not going to be completely smooth. In any case, the additional tax will just introduce new and more interesting means of avoidance and evasion.

            Like

          • Carry Hole is a porcine homunculus says:

            + 1
            CO

            Unearned income for one person, is extra effort for no-gain for another. i.e. a Zero Sum gain.

            Rent-Seeking is a cancerous growth on the economy.

            Like

          • Casual Observer says:

            The core double think of New Labour is being undone:

            Debt is Wealth.

            Like

      • 28
        Sandra in Accounts says:

        Soon everything we own will belong to the state & the political class.

        Like

      • 64
        Sungei Patani says:

        It may be the most supported but that is because most people believe that other people and not them will pay it.

        Like

        • 105
          Anonymous says:

          Right on Sungei, the idiots don’t understand that the government can restrict house building, keep interest rates low and let house price inflation rip and whoopee – more taxes to squander on Lib Dem and Labour vote buying.

          Once the buggers get a tax like this through it won’t be long before they increase the reach – £1m – 500k – 250k – it’s a tax heading for all householders. Vide Gordon Brown and what he did to rake it in with stamp duty.

          Like

    • 40
      dai the tax says:

      so how many spare bedrooms have you got in your mansion guido?

      Like

    • 116
      rollo57 says:

      The best scenario all round, would be to increase the number of ‘council tax bands’. These bands haven’t been ‘looked at’ since introduced, we now have millionaires paying the same tax as those in lesser properties. Or perhaps a land tax and the millionaires could then pay for their swimming pools, gymnasiums and triple garages! When the bands were introduced peoples wages reflected the valuation, now they don’t. £45k properties are now valued at £100k, yet the people in those properties are more likely on low pay now! Which is why government stopped the council tax allowance to unemployed. CT and Rents crippling the Welfare Budget.

      Like

  2. 4
    Anonymous says:

    Another of calamity (2) Cable’s ideas !

    Like

  3. 5
    Mitch says:

    The amount raised depends on the rate charged per house? A higher rate means less houses in scope.

    Like

  4. 6
  5. 7
    Anonymous says:

    London centric, rest of the country won’t be bothered, and you cannot win the election by simply concentrating on London.

    Besides the vast majority will be pleased that the rich are hit by a tax their accountants can’t get them off

    Like

    • 9
      Carry Hole is a porcine homunculus says:

      Exactly. Try off-shoring that.

      Like

    • 90
      Stuff the taxing bastards says:

      London and the south east should declare independence from the UK. If Scotland can do it why can’t the south east?
      This proposed tax is just theft from the south east. Leave the theiving polity that proposes it and leave them to whither and die.

      Like

  6. 8
    Carry Hole is a porcine homunculus says:

    http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birmingham-islamic-tv-channel-fined-5822389

    “Controversial programme host said it was duty for Muslims to murder anyone who insults Prophet Mohammad ”

    Yet minimum fine by Ofcom and seemingly no police interest?!

    Like

    • 25
      Carry Hole is a porcine homunculus says:

      Think you’re projecting there somewhat. Try not visiting you’re j3wish-conspiracy-ufo sites for a while and rejoin the real world.

      Like

  7. 10
    Tuscan Tony says:

    Problemo here is that I suspect 50% of the 775k households will continue to vote as they do mansion tax or no mansion tax. And 350k Tories here or there are small beer compared to the civil service sponsored importation programme of civil service-needy third world voters who are c. 90% likely to vote Labour.

    Like

  8. 11
    Slotgob Blair says:

    I am against mansion taxes in general

    I have so many of them, I cannot count them

    It would be socially very unfair to me and my Pimp of a husband to pay for the plebs

    And, BTW, I have just had a trial run in the new Range Rover, it’s superb,

    Tony told me from St Tropez that he will buy me five (5) so that the children and I can run around England in a motorcade…

    Bill Clinton and Hillary told us it was the right thing to do (and, of course, Mandy)

    Wage criminal wars, run giant Ponzi Schemes, pimp yourself out to criminal banks and dictators and generally piss on the electorate…

    Like

    • 20
      Euarin says:

      Can I have those blue lights in the front grille like the Queen has, mummy? Please, mummy?

      Like

      • 29
        Tony Blair, out of his head on French shit says:

        Don’t worry, kid

        I have just put in a bid with JP Morgan my bansker masters for Buckingham Palace

        You will have the whole works then…

        Like

  9. 13
    Matt says:

    Oh no all those people in London who have benefited from the explosion in house prices (without paying capital gains tax) are going to have to pay some tax. If the government insists on taxing these people they will jolly well take their mummy and daddy’s money and go to another country. Rahhh

    Like

    • 109
      Anonymous says:

      No one pays capital gains tax on their home you fucking moron, whether they live in London or Carlisle.

      Now fuck off and make something of your life instead of whinging about people who have more than you do, you dickless loser.

      Like

  10. 14
    Truman desk sign, slightly damaged, says:

    THE BUCK STOPS tHERE

    Like

    • 24
      Vote for Bush Drones get hundreds more from Obama says:

      Before he became Secretary of State, Senator John Kerry was critical of
      President Obama’s joke about Predator Drones.
      Senator Obama was against the Iraq war. So,this crisis is really about President Obama.
      He drew a “red line” on the use of chemical weapons. The red line has been crossed.
      The President is now in the position of having to do something, or look pathetically weak.
      He was unable to get the UK to cover his back, and protect his reputation. So, now he wants the US Congress to do it. Someone should give him the sign President Truman had on his desk with a one letter addition.
      “The buck stops there.”

      The Bureau of Investigative Journalism estimates the following cumulative statistics about US drone strikes (As of July 2013):
      Total strikes: 370
      Total reported killed: 2,548 – 3,549
      Civilians reported killed: 411 – 890

      Children reported killed: 168 – 197

      Total reported injured: 1,177 – 1,480
      Strikes under the Bush Administration: 52
      Strikes under the Obama Administration: 318

      Like

      • 54
        excuse me, er excuse me says:

        Er , let’s see here.
        unit cost = $17,000,000
        total cost of strikes = $6290,000,000
        cost per dead person ~ $1.8 million
        Why not give dead person ( before killing them ) $1.8 million to fuck off to some sunny island for the rest of their natural and stop being annoying ?

        Like

    • 78
      Judge Jeanine says:

      Like

  11. 15
    Anonymous says:

    Would Guido be hit?

    Like

  12. 17
    Anonymous says:

    I don’t really care if it’s a stately home or a City penthouse. Was anyone really stupid enough to begin with to think that ‘mansion tax’ ever meant actual mansions? It’s been clear all along that it’s linked to the value of properties.

    Like

    • 30
      Sandra in Accounts says:

      And soon every property band will be included.

      Like

    • 31
      Carry Hole is a porcine homunculus says:

      Which mainly means the value of the land underneath it…

      Wonder if there’s any people supporting a Land Tax?

      Like

      • 45
        Casual Observer says:

        Land Tax would solve most of the problems.

        The Land Owning class, who are pretty much the establishment, would not countenance that.

        As the Wind Farm fiasco and others has demonstrated, in the UK Landowners expect:

        i) To have their land ring protected from compulsory purchase / construction
        ii) To have no Tax liability on the land
        iii) To be able to derive large income essentially Tax Free from very small sections of the land as a result of having a wind turbine sited.

        From a cash flow point of view this is a remarkably profitable use of land.

        Profit which is mainly beyond the reach of the taxpayer, yet heavily subsidized by the tax payer.

        This is a fact of a life in England.

        I do not suggest a class war over it, but Land Tax should be brought into the frame alongside the Mansion Tax idea. The Land Tax could work out cheaper for the genuine Mansion owners out there, and net much more revenue.

        Like

        • 82
          Questioner says:

          Why, pray, does the government need more revenue? It already takes vast amounts from the populace. Except those on benefits of course…

          Like

      • 65
        Tony Benn says:

        I suggest nationalization of the land.

        Like

    • 51
      Anonymous says:

      Well, calling it a “mansion tax” is another of Millibands isnt it ? he was probably in his own “mansion ” when his handler thought it up !

      Like

  13. 19
    Django Pissed Off with Taxes! says:

    Increases in property taxes usually have the mark of desperate politicians who have given up on the idea of having a market based economy. Greece and Italy have both recently introduced additional property taxe which are highly unpopular. The Mansion Tax title given by Vincent Cable idea is clever in that the average voter then believes it won’t effect them but will be limited to the very rich and undeserving (envy is a terrible sin!). Eventually of course the Mansion Tax will capture more and more properties as its an easy tax to collect and the rush of cash into the public purse immediate.

    Like

  14. 21
    Roundell says:

    This Masion Tax would work aout at about £35,000 plus EVERY year

    Like

  15. 23
    RK says:

    In the picture, they shouldn’t have painted the nice brickwork of the second house from the left.

    Like

  16. 27
    Wicked Wicked Wicked says:

    Taxing people on a notional value of what they own is wicked. Seems to be popular with people who just take from the state and spend though.

    I’m not even going to go down the road that this tax takes no account of a person’s ability to pay, as I do not believe that state has any right to know a person’s wealth unless that person is asking for state money anyway.

    Like

    • 95
      Carry Hole is a porcine homunculus says:

      Or it’s popular with people who know economics.
      like Adam Smith and David Ricardo…

      Not known for being lefties.

      Like

      • 96
        Cabbage says:

        Indeed, it’s always worth referring back to the 18th Century to deal with 21st Century problems! I wonder if Mssrs Smith & Ricardo would actually agree with taxing someone without any basis on ability to pay. Personally I doubt they were that daft. The same cannot be said for many commentators these days ( none of whom I’ll wager would be liable for this tax ).

        Like

  17. 33
    Roma 4 Hire. says:

    We can drastically reduce the value of your mansion within hours and no state agency will come within a mile.

    Phone Bucharesti +40 21 200 3300

    Like

  18. 34
    Another London Bankster says:

    Please stop this socially unacceptable tax

    Me and my bank have just been bailed out by the taxpayer

    I have received my huge bonuses

    But I have taken out a £20 million mortgage on a joint in central London on my net worth of £35 million…

    I simply could not afford this tax…

    Like

  19. 35
    Casual Observer says:

    This is a new one.

    Run a monetary policy to force up the value of a fixed asset.

    Then attempt to cap the price of that asset by taxing an upper value.

    As most people foolishly regard asset inflation as a form of wealth creation, and regard their perceived wealth as a result of their good judgment (so consider the gain in the same way as if they had done something productive to earn the wealth), then this will be very unpopular.

    From an economic point of view the tax does not make sense.

    It would be much healthier for the economy to have a house price correction and rise in interest rates.

    Like

    • 47
      Carney ex Goldman Sachs says:

      Don’t try and teach a dog like me new tricks

      There will be a “price adjustment” don’t worry

      My job, though, is to stop an other collapse of the banks because of the collapse of the bond market when rates rise (I don’t care about your average investor, us banksters must stick together)

      This is the real and serious threat to the economy and we are not sure we will be able to control the rise in rates iof the vultures do a Soros on us…

      Have you seen the level of bond investment by the banks?

      Like

      • 72
        Canuck Watch says:

        To get an idea of what Carney’s view of a balanced economy is, a perusal of some house prices in Canada is instructive.

        Considering that is the second largest country by landmass on the planet, with only a small amount delivered, the Canadian housing market has delivered what can only be described as a few very expensive ghetto’s for its people.

        One which struck me, was a compare and contrast of two > $1m properties.

        One was on 2 acres of land with 7 bedrooms about 20 mins outside Toronto. The city taxes did not apply, and it was in a nice area, with public transport.

        The other was a 4 bed brownstone terrace in the city, which apparently has somewhat high taxes.

        Which do you think was $700k more expensive ?

        Hint: It was not the 7 bedroom place with the big garden.

        Just to give an insight into the mong mindset which was imported.

        Like

  20. 36

    However mansion tax seems so much more exclusive than mid-terrace house don’t you think?

    Why let accuracy get in the way of a good political slogan.

    Like

  21. 37
    Homeless from Kensington and Chelsea says:

    Fucking whining rich people, what the fuck are they whining about – if you can afford to buy a pad for 1.25 mil, you can afford to pay the tax.

    If you don’t like it sell up and move out, the same as all the other people who now can’t afford to live in London have to do.

    Like

    • 81
      Mark T says:

      but they didn’t buy it for 1.25m did they? They probably paid £800k for it with a mortgage of £600k that now takes 80% of their take home pay to cover it. Under this marvellously ‘fair’ new tax, they will have to come up with £12.5 a year after they have paid all the other taxes – income tax, VAT, rates, NI, a million ‘green taxes’, higher energy bills (to save the planet), higher rail fares etc. That means they have to earn an extra £20k just to pay to live in their own house. Which they can’t do, so either they cut back all other spending – sorry bars, restaurants, clothes shops, holiday companies etc, the governmnent needs that money. Or they are forced to sell their house and move somewhere, nice bit of stuff you for saving and being self reliant.

      Of course the person buying the house now has to find the extra £12.5k a year, so what price is he going to pay? Oh, let’s see, £12.5 k a year gets me a mortgage of around £400k, so I reckon that house is now worth, £800k again. Ah, but then it drops out of the band, so I don’t need the extra 12.5k, so it goes back up again, to just under whatever limit you set. Bottom line is not only does the value of all houses at or around a band drop to just below that band, but the ‘good house that drops from £1.4m to £1.2m knocks the less good house from £1.2m to maybe £1.0m. Hello negative equity across the whole of the south east. Nobody can afford to move, stamp duty collapses, misery for the middle classes. But at least it’s fair. After all those greedy banksters etc etc etc…….The economic illiteracy is only eclipsed by the deeply unpleasant envy and malice.

      Like

      • 83
        Realist says:

        Well put. Though of course many are living in houses that they paid very much less than £800K for. Which makes your post even more valid.

        Like

        • 92
          Homeless from Kensington and Chelsea says:

          So, sell up and move to somewhere you can afford to live. That’s what everyone else has to do, so stop your fucking whining about how unfuckingfair it all is.
          I didn’t see any one on this site saying how unfair it all was that people living in London in rented accommodation now can’t afford it because….. the rules changed. The rules changed so the poor people have to move out of their rented homes, so whining fucking Henry’s like you can buy them and then moan about how fucking expensive and unfair it all is that you have pay a bit extra to live there. Where was your explanation about the economics of rented housing, where was your protest? Fucking nowhere mate, and do you know why? Because you couldn’t a fucking toss about anyone else, just about how much YOU have to put up the unfairness of it all. Fucking arsehole>

          Like

        • 94
          Carry Hole is a porcine homunculus says:

          So they won’t mind paying CGT on that workless windfall..

          Like

        • 99
          Est. Ag. says:

          the “mansion” tax will reduce the price of “mansions”, same as the taxpayer-funding of mortgages will push up the prices of those houses.

          Like

    • 104
      Rats says:

      The reason your homeless is because your a sniveling shit who thinks the world owes you a living

      Like

      • 113
        Homeless from Kensington and Chelsea says:

        No, just sick and fucking tired of listening to rich Hunts like you whining about how fucking hard it is to get by on 100k a year.
        The twats that fucked us plebs down here are now after you up there. And you have more assets, more cash and more to lose, which is why you’re all fucking whining.
        You voted for them. And now they’re gonna bend you over and fuck you up the ass too. How dare they! Think you’re different? Fuck You, wanker!
        We’re ALL in it together, haha.

        Like

  22. 38
    Anonymous says:

    Withdrawing child benefit was a bigger foul-up – but the Tories did it anyway. Vote UKIP.

    Like

  23. 42
    SR says:

    I can’t believe Guido swallowed this b*****ks. Their own press release says the number of houses affected now would be 55,000. They “predict” that 775,000 would be affected in 25 years based on an unchanged threshold of £2m.

    Like

    • 59
      Observer says:

      Media Intelligence Partners

      Testing

      Like

    • 73
      Casual Observer says:

      20 years from now house prices could be the same as they are right now.

      A lot can happen, including massive collapse in prices and even a few serious recessions.

      Basing economic projections on false propaganda and a straight line through some already distorted data points is partly how the country got into the state it is in today: That is essentially Brown economic theory in practice, in a nutshell.

      Good to hop on a bandwagon, but after last week one suspects that political stories are a bit thin on the ground as the government took a right kicking and needs a breather from the public.

      Chilcot ?

      Like

  24. 43
    Anonymous says:

    This is an asset tax. Simply owning an item is a liability. Nothing to do with the cost of the services used.

    What happens when they move onto other assets. A garden tax. A second car tax. A boat tax. A dog tax.

    Imagine a tax were it is linked to underutilization of an asset.

    Owning land that is not productive used, is a greater sin than owning a house that is large.

    This is just the first step down a slippery road.

    Like

    • 50
      Point of Information 4 says:

      Is it not being considered a tax to apply to first property owned ?

      That is the subtle detail here, as your primary property should be free of such a tax.

      Taxing the primary property owned is not really cool.

      However, taxing second and third properties in this way will only serve to increase rents, unless those owners are not renting those properties out.

      Like

  25. 46
    As Professor Joad might have said... says:

    …it all depends on what you mean by chemical weapons

    http://www.infowars.com/hypocrite-central-u-s-britain-and-israel-have-used-chemical-weapons-within-the-last-10-years/

    Like

  26. 52
    Immigration Tax says:

    They keep telling us that Immigrants are an asset. So hows about taxing them?

    Actually an immigration tax would sort out those who want to be here and contribute and those who want to be here and take.

    Like

    • 61
      Reality says:

      Well there is the Poll tax.

      But the immigrants are not an asset.

      They are an out of control cancer that is currently killing the host.

      Like

  27. 62
    The soon-to-be-ousted tit in no. 10 says:

    Then we’ll have to carpet-bomb the place. Yay !

    Like

  28. 66
    Vote Liblabcon - get Barroso, Rompuy and Merkel says:

    With western intervention in the Middle East there is always ‘mission creep’.

    With this ‘mansion’ tax you can bet there will also be ‘tax creep’. Pretty soon every householder will be paying extra tax (on top of council taxes) to pay for those who can’t be arsed to strive to buy their own home.

    Like

    • 71
      Vote Liblabcon - get Barroso, Rompuy and Merkel says:

      Just out of curiosity will those people living in Scotland and/or Wales have to pay this mansion tax or will they continue to exploit English people?

      Like

      • 101
        Surveyor says:

        I don’t think mud-and-sheepshit hovels count as mansions. The only things taxed would be Norman castles.

        Like

  29. 69
    C.O.Jones says:

    Why not a tax on second households? Landlords would love it. They can well afford it with mortgages being at a sustained historical low and rents rising like never before.

    In many instances rents are bringing in 200%+ of the actual interest only mortgage costs. One of the reasons for the RAPID decline in owner occupiers. Many people are becoming slaves to a basic existence (if you work that is).

    Like

    • 74
      Lukewarm says:

      Rental income is already taxed. Plus, it costs a packet in stamp duty to buy places in the first place.
      Taxing ownership rather than income seems fundamentally wrong to me.

      Like

      • 77
        Castrati says:

        Your income is already taxed at a high rate. VAT is as well already at a historical high.

        Someone has to pay for the costs that the state incurs. Either reduce that cost or pay up.

        Like

      • 80
        C.O.Jones says:

        I agree with your last sentence but ownership of more than one property shows an ability to pay. So primary residence exempt, all IMHO of course..

        Like

        • 110
          Anonymous says:

          Why not just cut foreign aid to nuclear capable countries by 1.5 billion and raise the same amount of money ?

          Like

  30. 76
    Tojo says:

    Sounds much like, Guido lives in a Mansion…

    Like

  31. 79
    Tojo says:

    Bring back the Pole Tax, then every one Pays, which is only right and proper.

    Like

  32. 85
    Pete M says:

    Could always revive some of the taxes from years gone by – windows, bricks, hats, beards…. http://www.ipinglobal.com/ipin-live/406821/tried-and-tested-tax-alternatives-to-bedroom-tax-and-mansion-tax

    Like

  33. 89
    Penfold says:

    Property price inflation has arisen as a result of government policy, which has restricted new build, placing a premium on existing stock.
    To then charge people a tax on government’s own inflationary creation is a disgrace. It also raises the spectre of a government deliberately setting out to inflate house prices to generate higher tax revenues.

    In the 70′s and 80′s we had Labour councils wilfully spending and taxing by ratcheting rates, that was seen as inequitable and stopped, now we are going back to a regressive scheme.

    Yet another taxing scheme devised by those useless L-D’s.

    Why not go the whole communist hog and just simply expropriate all property and place people to fill all houses…………

    Like

  34. 91
    Jimmy says:

    “If he has any sense Tory chairman Grant Shapps is right now crafting a mailshot to every single one of those 775,000 homeowners…”

    It’ll probably contain an offer for a free double glazing quote.

    Like

  35. 93
    danny nolan says:

    Not hard to spot on this thread those that do not (and never will) own ‘mansions’

    Like

  36. 107
    sproggingforbenefits says:

    Start at a million & get on with it . .

    Like

  37. 108
    Anonymous says:

    Am I missing something? Why the fuck would ANYONE pay £2m to live in Haringey?

    Like

  38. 114
    Bioscene Marc says:

    more tax, great idea. one day the people will riot.

    Like

  39. 115
    Uncle Harry says:

    It’s not a ‘mansion’ tax, just like it’s not a ‘bedroom tax’.

    Like


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Ralph Miliband on the English…

“The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world.”



Left on Left says:

The lefties are attacking because the panellist is a millionaire and lives in a London home worth upwards of two million. Someone had best tell them he’s called Ed Miliband.


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