February 15th, 2013

Tories Suspend Nazi Row Top Cop Boss From Candidates List

rachelEarlier in the week a Tory deputy police and crime commissioner quit her post after coming under pressure for comparing Nazism to socialism. Despite Rachel Frosh’s tweet merely referring to a hardly original academic argument, the Tories showed no mercy: “these comments are completely unacceptable and it is right that she has stepped down”. A Conservative source has this morning confirmed to Guido that Frosh has been suspended from the party’s candidates list, which seems a slight overreaction to say the least. Frosh herself gets in touch to hit back:

“I was simply retweeting something in line with a widely held opinion about the roots of Nazism. Of course I was not calling all socialists Nazis. That a retweet should be allowed to be misrepresented and used against me such a way is a something that all right-headed individuals should openly reject.”

This really does seem like a fight that could have easily been avoided…


152 Comments

  1. 1
    Stuart says:

    Bloody Nazis!

    Like

    • 7
      Frederick Gideon Threepwood says:

      It rather reminds me of the Professor at a US university who was dismissed for using the word niggardly, despite it being pointed out that neither the word or its derivation had anything to do with racial matters. Idiots never let the facts get in the way of a good witch hunt.

      Like

      • 24
        V1le Labour ruined my Country says:

        What’s the problem, Socialists behave more like Nazis than Nazis do. Just look at the similarities, wasting all the money, ruining the country, not allowing free speech, calling objectors bigots, identity passes, dominating state institutions with minions, the list is endless.

        Like

        • 42
          Anonymous says:

          Extreme right wing nut cases believe like Naz*. Except right wing nut cases every one else believe Naz* are right wing.

          Extreme left wing nut cases are the likes of Stali*.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            The clue is in the name:
            NazionalSOZIALISTISCHE Partei Deutschlands

            In practice it’s just gone full circle which make extreme lefties not very different from extreme righties, like for example the Chosen Landers.

            Like

          • splooge says:

            Well, be fair – comparing socialists to nazis is bound the rattle lefties like Cameron

            Like

        • 44
          rick says:

          Unbelievable!! New ‘Caring’ Conservatives are now to the extreme Left of New Liebore. UKIP…now the only option.

          Like

        • 104
          golli says:

          Hear hear the terms are absolutely interchangeable! Look at Balls

          Like

      • 32
        Anonymous says:

        Calling socialist, naz* is like calling North Korea democratic state.

        Like

        • 37
          Harvey says:

          > Calling socialist, naz* is like calling North Korea democratic state

          Of course – even Hitler was joking when he named his party the Socialist party – what he meant to call it was the ‘Far Right all Conservatives are evil’ party.

          At least, that’s what the BBC has been telling me for the last 30 years.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Looks like some of you are confusing Stali* with Hitle*. One was a left wing monster other was a right wing monster.

            Like

          • Axe The Telly Tax says:

            Now Stalin was the monster in charge of the USSR = Union of SOCIALIST Soviet Republics.

            And Hitler was the monster in charge of the NAZI’s = short for National SOCIALIST German Worker’s Party.

            Now what word do they have in common?

            Like

          • rocknrolla says:

            The Nazis were a branch of socialism, one that understandably the modern left wish to distance themselves from. The sad thing is that the leadership of the modern conservative party are now so clearly part of the left that they have to join in with the ditancing. Pointing out the totalitarian nature of socialism and the strains of it still to be found infecting the labour party should make someone at excellent candidate for the tories.

            Alas we now have 3 left-wing parties to choose from. Only UKIP now.

            Like

          • Controversial says:

            Stali* was a left wing monster.
            Mussol!ni was a right wing monster.

            Hitle* was perhaps the third way. Extreme centrist.

            Like

          • Harvey says:

            I do wonder why the Left and their allies keep refering to the Nazis as Right wing.

            Where they for small government, low taxes, free markets?

            Where they pro-Jewish – as most Conservatives are – and against radical Islam?

            Hmm..

            Like

      • 48
        Marvo the Memory Man says:

        He wasn’t dismissed. He was reinstated because he was gay. I am not making this up.

        His accuser’s argument was that he shouldn’t have used the word, even though it has nothing to do with race, because he should have taken into account that his hearers might have been too ignorant or stupid to know what the word meant.

        Like

        • 62
          Frederick Gideon Threepwood says:

          You are correct sir (maybe apart from him being gay being the reason for his reinstatement). I have mixed up 2 (or 3) similar cases in my memory. The Mayors aide case which you cite, a Wisconsin University case and some others in US universities and schools. Do they not teach medieval Norse in US schools ?

          Like

        • 138
          Anonymous says:

          Whenever someone says “I’m not making this up”, I immediately assume they’re talking out of their arse.

          Blame Theresa May.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            UKIP care about Poundland workers, are concerned about Startbucks not paying tax and are not a One Policy Party.

            By the way, I’m not making this up.

            Like

    • 12
    • 13
      I Used 2be a Tory But I'm All Write Now says:

      My comment was much more deserving of being first than yours. Grrrrrrrr etc :(

      Like

      • 28
        yeah, right... says:

        Anyway, comparing the two is just plain silly.

        Whilst Nazism did once cause great damage, socialism has been oppressing, starving and killing people for far longer and continues to do so even now.

        Like

    • 64
      Anonymous says:

      Hope someone can dredge up the quote where Hitler says he’s a socialist and that the Nazi party is the enemy of capitalist enterprise. It’s c. 1927 or 1929. The clue’s in the name – The National SOCIALIST German Workers’ Party.

      More power to this bird’s elbow in drawing attention to the fact the the Nazi’s, far from being a right wing party, were in fact closer aligned to left wing socialist scum bags.

      The Tory party – always in search of a foot to shoot themselves in.

      Like

      • 108
        Flaubert's Hedgehog says:

        You only have to look at the Nazi Party statement of 1920 (http://www.hitler.org/writings/programme/ , also included in Goldberg’s book Liberal Fascism). The difference between International and National Socialism doesn’t amount to much when you are sitting in some Gulag or concentration camp. In a certain sense the anti-semitism of Hitler’s Nazis was a tactic. It has since become a red herring, enabling cretins like President Schultz to have a hissy fit when their fascist attitudes are pointed out.

        Like

        • 128
          Great Granddad:Prime Minister in Waiting, New Utopia Party says:

          Only those who are so very young that they were not around at the time of the Nazi regime, can possibly be so misled as to think that the N.A.Z.I. – that is the National Socialist German Workers’ Party – was anything but a socialist organisation. Sadly many of those same youngsters think that socialism is for the poor. Socialism simply seeks the support of the poor, the plebs, the underprivileged and the bone idle, to ensure their band of elitists a way to power. Politics is about power, whether left, right, centre or around the back.

          Miss Frosh simply lacked the skill to fight her corner.

          Like

    • 129
      Austrian painter (deceased) says:

      They are the same thing. Bring her back.

      Like

  2. 2
    Rip van Wrinkle says:

    In a world of deceit, the truth is a revolutionary act.

    Like

  3. 3
    RK says:

    Has Ed Balls still got that old uniform?

    Like

  4. 4
    Anonymous says:

    Remember those PC days when anyone who raised the subject of immigration was immeadiately branded a racist?

    Like

  5. 5
    Darran says:

    All these sacred cows … about time everyone started calling a spade a spade again.
    If you don’t analyze things how on earth are you ever going to fix them? If you don’t discuss things, how are you ever going to hone in on the most important things to analyze… politics and politicians just aren’t “fit for purpose”

    Like

  6. 6
    I Used 2be a Tory But I'm All Write Now says:

    After hearing about the oppositions plans to also cut benefits if it wins in 2015 one could be forgiven for saying that a managerial similarity is not a far fetched description of how things are. The Tories under Feminist Prime Minister David Cameron are hell bent on being as “politically correct” (read tyranny by literalism and subjective implied intent over objectivity) as each other. Time to consider spoiling ones ballot methinks!

    Like

  7. 8
    God says:

    Nazism WAS officially called “National Socialism” after all! Seems that the Conservative Party has rather overreacted.

    Like

    • 36
      Ex Conservative says:

      “Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.”. The official name, which translates to “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”. An established fact demonstrating the thickos managing what passes for the Conservative Party these days.

      Like

      • 57
        Ma­qboul says:

        All fascist states followed on from the mess and machinery of failed socialist states.

        I would say that the only real difference between the two is that fascists hate the je­ws but that clearly doesn’t apply these days.

        Like

        • 110
          Flaubert's Hedgehog says:

          The Nazis did; Fascists in general don’t. Mussolini was pretty indifferent until Hitler got to him.

          Like

    • 38
      SP4BS says:

      I’ve got a packet of “beef burgers” from tesco.

      Like

  8. 10

    Its not a very good argument, the ‘fascists were socialists’ one.
    The Nazis fought the communists, the liberals, and social democrats from their inception.

    Its possible to make an academic case for Nazi=socialist. But the moment its tested against history it falls to bits.

    Like

    • 31

      It surely depends upon your criteria of judgement are.

      You do not have to get deeply academic to see that both systems are totalitarian. That is similar enough for many people.

      If you draw the axis one way, the argument is true, another way and the argument is false.

      Like

      • 46
        SP4BS says:

        If you draw one or two axis then you might be over simplifying things.
        If all you’re saying is “totalitarian = all the same” thats a bit of a duff argument.

        Theres a whole series of things regarded “left or right” that are quite independent of each other and don’t resemble the seating order in the 19th century french parliment.

        You don’t have to kill all disabled people if your government nationalises the top 25 companies.

        Like

        • 98

          I had said That is similar enough for many people Not for me, neither Bill nor yourself.

          Bill spoke of the possibility of an academic case for equivalency. I was saying that there was no need to take it that far.

          The many people of which I was thinking were those who found themselves on the wrong side of the regime in question. To them the nuance and subtlety of any theoretical argument was of no comfort.

          I love a good academic tussle but any position which is based upon dogma but masquerades as authority can go into Room 101 as far as I am concerned.

          Like

      • 54

        Very true.
        Hitler said anything to get into power. Any sort of right wing/left wing populist crap.

        Free toasters for all. Full employment. Everyone to have their own servant. A new empire in Africa..end to sexual excess. Ban on all drugs. Extra paid holidays for all. Stripping the rich of their possessions. Any old tosh, much of it contradictory.

        But at the core of Nazi ideology was a genuine hatred of socialism and communism. Its the foundation of of Nazism, and explains its rise to power, in a deeply conservative, aristocratic country like Wiemar Germany.

        So whilst both Stalin and Hitler ran dictatorships, the Nazis would never have considered themselves ‘socialist’ in the western liberal democracy sense.

        Like

        • 74
          Tim Burr says:

          I disagree, and not simply in order to upset the bedwetters. Hitler used race where Stalin used class. Other that that their ideologies and practices were extremely similar.

          It is in fact well known that the aristocracy and the army were against Hitler as he rose to power.

          Like

        • 76
          Casual Observer says:

          It was all propaganda in the very early days of the NSDAP movement. That quote is from a May 1927 speech. In those days the NSDAP were wanting to appeal to all classes. Goebbels not Hitler realized that it was necessary to appeal in this way, behind the scenes though a very different message was being delivered to the capitalist elites.

          The red on the NSDAP flag is symbolic of NSDAP social values, the party was socialist in much of its philosophy.

          But it was not communism: And the quote in the tweet bears that out.

          A good argument against classifying NSDAP as being a fully left wing socialist party is the observation that whilst they were in power they did not nationalize any of the key industries. Their political economy was much more Martial Keynesian. The lack of corporatism is what distinguishes them from real fascism as developed in Italy under Muss0lini.

          The actions taken against this Frosh’s re-tweet are fully reflective of a communist reaction to criticism, and perhaps she touched a nerve with respect the less than honest socialist forces which are now clearly present in the Tory party and many public services.

          The image and quote itself have been circulating for a while in the US, so this particular image is nothing new. Recent events in the US are bearing this out.

          The clearly fascist response taken against her has made the case for the claim in the image. Oops ?

          Like

          • Well, I don’t disagree. The response to the tweet was typically cowardly, issue ducking.

            Like

          • Cicero says:

            Although the industries remained *nominally* in private hands, as a front, it was actually the government which had ownership in all but name.

            The government decided what would be made and how, which distribution methods would be allowed, what prices should be charged etc and what profit the nominal owners would be ‘allowed’ to have.

            http://mises.org/daily/1937

            Like

      • 72
        Ma­qboul says:

        Fascism and Socialism have more in common than not. Both have at its heart the all powerful state and suppression of the freedom of the individual. They each regard the other as a heresy of its own form. They hate each other because they are so similar not because they are different. There recruiting grounds are the same and consequently compete for the same dull minds. Turf wars in effect.

        Hayek nailed the difference.

        To many who have watched the transition from socialism to fascism at close quarters the connection between the two systems has become increasingly obvious, but in the democracies the majority of people still believe that socialism and freedom can be combined. They do not realize that democratic socialism, the great utopia of the last few generations, is not only unachievable, but that to strive for it produces something utterly different – the very destruction of freedom itself.

        Like

      • 115
        Glyn H says:

        Even if you recall George Orwells 1948 observation that the left are the authoritarians?

        Like

    • 34
      Tim Burr says:

      Disagree. Yes you are judged by your enemies, but often groups with very similar ideas are competing for the same ground.

      Like

      • 56
        Frederick Gideon Threepwood says:

        UKIP and the BNP?

        Like

        • 102
          Six Of One, And A Half-Dozen Of The Other? says:

          In that they are both “xenophobes,” do you mean?

          UKIP = Tory-style “Rivers of Blood” foreigner-bashing, while BeeEnnPee = old-school-Labour-style “coolie-worker” foreigner-bashing?

          A bit specious, perhaps, but hey, that’s how politics is done– it doesn’t have to be correct and factual, it just has to sound plausible, doesn’t it? But the same sort of people who say Nigel Farage and “Stewie” Griffin are the same sort of hater are the same sort of people who deny that because Fascism and Communism both lead to the same result, i.e. oppression of the individual, that those two could possibly be the same thing, ultimately.

          Like

    • 40
      Erwin Dolfuss says:

      In Austria, in the 1930s, the Nazis also fought the fascists.

      Like

    • 124
      Bill Quango voted out 2015 says:

      Dear Bill, the Leninists fought the Trotskyists and thats just one example of the constant and multitude of fighting amongst fellow extreme left wing parties , what is your point exactly ?

      Like

  9. 11
    genghiz the kahn says:

    Perhaps she misheard Teresa May saying that the Tories were the Nasty Party.

    Like

    • 100
      Geoffrey Chaucer Excise man says:

      In light of Keith Vaz’s comments earlier in the week (he is hardly thin himself), should that be Teresa May and the pasty party

      Like

  10. 14
    Will H says:

    I’m never voting Tory while this sort of synthetic hypersensitivity prevails.

    UKIP from now on….Cameron’s incompetent and an utter fraud.

    Like

  11. 15
    Labour Spin says:

    Mary Creagh was a hoot on last night’s Question Time. She said Labour’s announcement on restoring the 10p tax rate was “the direction they’re travelling” but not an actual manifeso promise.

    Like

    • 35
      Ed that bird shit on my head says:

      You can’t really blame Mary as she is only followwing my no policy policy. It’s a cracker.

      Like

  12. 18
    Steve says:

    Remember them? It still happens.

    Once again someone backs away when a factual statement is challenged because someone does not like it. When will our representatives learn you do not win battles by walking away….

    Like

  13. 19

    Some socialists are ethically comparable with Nazis.

    Like

  14. 22
    Paniagua says:

    FFS He openly creates fake pictures now !!!!!!!!!!

    Like

  15. 25
    len hutton says:

    The Tories are a bunch of f*cking fascists! And the socialists the same!

    Like

  16. 26
    Lord Stansted says:

    What’s the problem. Labour is a national party and I assume proud to be socialists – ipso facto it’s a National Socialist party.

    Like

  17. 29
    SP4BS says:

    you know, the other day, there were comments about “any use of the swastika is direspectful to the people who died in the (real, nazi) holocaust”.

    So do you rekon comparing nazisim to a shit way of running factories is just as disrespectful.

    Like

    • 65
      Ma­qboul says:

      …or comparing nazism to Stalin’s socialism. Think Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler could manage. He didn’t care very much for the chosen people either.

      Like

      • 89
        Tim Burr says:

        I’ve always understood the figures to be:

        Hitler : 6 million
        Stalin : 26 million

        In the seventies when the full extent of Stalins atrocities were acknowledged the Labour Party used to send groups to Russia to admire the Soviet system.

        Like

  18. 49
    sir jeremy says:

    socialists know the axiom: if property is theft then theft is property

    Like

  19. 52
    sir jeremy says:

    isn’t nazi-ism socialism that’s been nationalised?

    Like

    • 79
      Ma­qboul says:

      It’s socialism which works economically. This is why socialists hate it.

      A libertarian will hate both forms.

      Like

  20. 53
    sir boffton toffton mp - what says:

    is Len in?

    Like

  21. 59
    Prince Harry says:

    I like to dress up in uniforms, take money that I havent earned and order untermenschen about
    Ed Balls is my hero

    Like

  22. 72
    I rest my case m'lud says:

    National SOCIALISM

    Like

    • 141
      Anonymous says:

      National Socialist: Hard right racist party, with a total madman as leader.

      Now why do people say that sounds a lot like UKIP?

      Like

  23. 75
    Adolf says:

    Will you please let me rest in peace!

    Like

  24. 77
    Socialism = Starvation says:

    ‘National Socialist German Workers’ Party’ the ones whose administration signed that Pact with Stalin?

    The ones whose slogans included ‘Gemeinnutz geht vor Eigennutz’ (The common good before the individual good).

    What good old Labour stalwart would object to that?

    Like

  25. 82
    The clue is in the name says:

    NSDAP or translated in to English = National SOCIALIST German Workers’ Party.

    Like

  26. 83
    Anonymous says:

    If anyone gets the chance, watch RT Documentaries at 13:30 GMT (sorry no link as it’s not up on their site yet), though I doubt most here will be surprised.

    Like

  27. 84
    Bill Kenny says:

    So according to the Conservative Central office either Nazis were n’t socialists or they were but if you are a Conservative you are n’t allowed to acknowledge that?? We need to know.

    Like

  28. 86
    Blade Gunner says:

    Oscar Pistolius’s favourite band.

    Like

  29. 87
    Blowing Whistles says:

    I’m lovin the front page of the Daily Mail today – almost further infamy there save for a missins ‘S’.

    NHS legals ‘n all their rhetoric threats and lies. The NHS legals are ‘Gagging for it’ now that the Fat Cats [Top CEO's Cover Everything Over] are outed of the bag.

    Like

  30. 90
    Point of Information says:

    There is one danger with pointing out that NSDAP were socialist party.

    Firstly: They were. End of discussion.

    The danger though is that part of the shoah denial builds arguments that the shoah was a propaganda exercise in part put up to conceal the crimes against humanity which were perpetrated under Stali* by the communists in Russia.

    This is a false statement.

    It is true though that socialism killed ~ 20m quite innocent Russian’s through policies of deliberate starvation and other state interventions during the 1930s. His regime was staunchly opposed to antisemit!sm but did kill a large number of J3ws as they were members of the social classes which his regime did target.

    Most notable was the modus operandi behind the execution of the Great Purge of 1936/37.

    Like

    • 92
      Blowing Whistles says:

      The regime (Stalins) was stuffed with 4x2s – they used inverted logic to protect themselves at arms lenght all the time – it’s a neat “trick” of deception which was easy to get away with throughout the 30′s, 40′s, 50′s, 60′s and 70′s when they ‘controlled’ all the media – NOT SO EASY TODAY THOUGH.

      btw – THE FIGURE OF 20m is more likely to be nearer to 70m as at the close of the 1980′s.

      Like

    • 95
      Some Bugger from the Preying Fields Of Eton says:

      About the atrocities I think you got it about right but conflating socialism with communism is somewhat controversial.

      Like

      • 122
        Our upper class filled with Nonces says:

        Should your name not be ‘Getting buggered in the playing fields of Eton ” ?

        Like

  31. 93
    YorkshireLad says:

    Adolf was never over-keen on the “Socialist” in the party name.
    Anyway, I’d say Hitler hated every ideology equally.

    Like

    • 152
      Anonymous says:

      And yet he needed to con the working class that he was on their side.
      (Just as UKIP is attempting today.)

      Like

  32. 96
    SaltPetre says:

    That extreme overreaction and censorship of free speech is often used by the mods here when people disagree with Guido’s love of a certain ethnic group and ‘gold’ middle-eastern nation.

    Like

  33. 97
    PitPony says:

    In some ways the current LibLabCon one party state is similar to Nazism:
    *Big state mentality
    *Crony Capitalism
    *Against Freedom of Expression
    *Ban on Foxhunting

    Hitler was even a Five a Day veggie

    Like

  34. 109
    Dogsbody says:

    Yet another victim of the absurd Twitter culture. The answer is quite simple – don’t tweet!

    Like

    • 135
      Parking on the left is now parking on ...err..the Left says:

      The answer is quite simple, dont Vote for Camerons party.

      Like

  35. 112
    Jimmy says:

    If the nasties are going to start throwing people out for political illiteracy then they’re going to run out of people pretty quickly.

    Like

  36. 114
    Cicero says:

    National Socialists and Socialists both share a left-wing vision of the big state and fully-centralised planned economies as a modus operandi – even if they pretend not to, while still acting as puppet-master, as in wwII Germany. That is the key similarity.

    When this necessitates price controls, wage cuts and shortages, they then act centrally to try and force their system to work against all reality, thus skewing things even further.

    Rather like LibLabCon are doing with the windmills.

    Like

    • 121
      Exposing the lies of the Left says:

      Exactly, what distingished them was one ideology was based on Class and the other on Race. This is what made them enemies. They are BOTH left wing , big State ideologies after all we dont claim Leninists were Right Wing simply on the basis that they opposed Trotskyists.

      Like

  37. 116
    Tosspot says:

    I seem to remember someone saying… New Labour but Old Communism…. the distinction between Nazism and Communism is rather a fine line.
    This Lady has been wronged and in a land of free speech, a classic illustration of just how free it really is.

    Like

  38. 119
    Yew Fat Tuat says:

    Nazi is short for NSDAP, which again is short for National-Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. They were, of course, nationalist and socialists. So nothing to complain about there.

    Moreover, many “socialist” countries quite happily adopted many of the more refined oppressive methods of state control invented and/or developed by the Nazi state apparatus.

    Like

  39. 120
    50 Shades of Socialist bollox under the guyise of Conservatism says:

    David Cameron is a wanker. Vote UKIP

    Like

    • 126
      Frederick Gideon Threepwood says:

      No, I don’t follow the logic. You write off Cameron because he is a wanker…..and then ask us to support an entire party of wankers?

      Like

  40. 125
    Anonymous says:

    National Socialist German Workers’ Party
    NSDP
    Nazi

    What’s to understand

    Like

  41. 134
    Another bastard cild of the extreme Left says:

    It should also be remembered that the final solution had its origins in Eugenics which as we all know was espoused by The left wing Fabians. It is no co incidence that many Fabians such as Mosley went on to form The facist Blackshirts ( just another form of extreme left wing ideology requiring a big totalitarian State).

    Like

  42. 136

    So you can be sacked for linking National Socialism to the Nazis even though there the same thing?
    Im confused, Im also wondering why this lady isnt going through an employment tribunal to get her job back or compensation?

    Like

  43. 146
    LL says:

    Not only Nazism and Communism.
    Fascism itself is an evolution of Communism.Replacing the class struggle with corporativism.

    Giovanni Gentile was an Hegelian and wrote a book on Marx.

    Hanged with Mussolini was one of founders of Italian Communist party…

    Like

  44. 148
    Harvey says:

    I think the problem here is that the Tory party is now lead by left-leaning types who have little to no familiarity with Conservative values.

    To them – this statement must have seemed outragous.

    Mrs T would have held this good woman to her and given her a big hug – she knew evil and lived every day to defeat it.

    Cameron – erm no.

    Like

    • 149
      Sorry run that past me again, what were they doing in your home at that time in the morning ? says:

      Any party who gives someone like Oliver Letwin a position of authority cannot be taken seriously.

      Like

  45. 151
    Chris Hnuhe says:

    All socialists are Nazi’s and vice versa

    Like


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