January 28th, 2013

David “The Jews” Ward Exchange of Letters With Whips

The LibDems have “formally censured” David Ward over his “the Jews” comments last week. Here is the exchange of letters between Ward and LibDem chief whip Alistair Carmichael:

Dear David,

Thank you for coming to see me this evening in order to discuss the press release that you issued last week in relation to your signing of the Holocaust Book of Commitment.

I note the terms of your statement of apology issued on Saturday.

I am strongly of the view that your use of the phrase “the Jews” in this context was unacceptable and I formally censure you for that.

In line with our conversation, and notwithstanding the strength with which you hold your views on the situation in the Middle East, I would be grateful if you would confirm the undertaking that you gave to me in our meeting that you will not again use the phrase “the Jews” in this context.

I look forward to your response as soon as possible and no later than midday tomorrow.

Yours ever,

Alistair

Liberal Democrat Chief Whip

And Ward’s two line reply:

Dear Alistair,

Thank you for your letter dated 28th January.

I confirm that I am prepared to give you the undertaking that you asked for in our meeting.

David,

David Ward MP

No real apology, no real remorse, no real punishment. According to the BBC a LibDem spokesman says this is a “yellow card”.  At least they didn’t promote him to the Lords like they did with Jihad Jenny…


129 Comments

  1. 1
    Damned Impertinent Questions says:

    “You are a very naughty boy and Nick has told us to be weally weally hard on you- but it does play to the big Muslim populations in many of our constituencies so here’s a slap on the wrist. Dont get caught again”

    “Whatever”

  2. 2
    D'Jango says:

    He survives not to fight another day but to be able to make a fool of himself yet again!

    • 9
      Blowing Whistles says:

      - 6,000,000 or is it 12,000,000

    • 103
      Anonymous says:

      Actually, it’s the rest of the morons that Andrew Ward has shown up as fools.
      He made perfectly fair comments about the monumental hypocrisy of Zi*ni*ts and their glovepuppets.

      • 117
        MB. says:

        It’s getting like the US where anyone daring to criticise Israel is attacked by the pro-Israel lobby so the media are very careful what they publish because they are afraid of losing advertising.

        I remember years ago hearing someone describing a lecture tour they had done of the US, talking about the Middle East. People came up to him at the end and thanked him because they only ever saw a very biased Israeli version in their media.

        • 125
          goldstein says:

          no problem with disagreeing with the only democracy in the middle east Israel but he actually used the words jews not Israel therefore perpetuating the ignorant view that all jews wherever they are , are Israeli citizens !
          There are only 13 million jews in the world ,why is there so much hatred for so few people ?
          please can you explain ?

  3. 3
    Charlie says says:

    “I mentioned it once but I think…”

  4. 4
    Kebab Time says:

    So the twitter mob strikes again, RIP Freedom of speech (episode 1000000000 ) .

    How about if he was expressing the views of his constituents ? is that not allowed? is he not allowed to do hat he was elected to do? or is it ok as long as he agrees with the twitter mob?

    Be careful as to where this could go……

  5. 5
    one scummy bastard after another says:

    what about that despicable Libdem MEP who gloated about Al Qaeda 1-0 Cameron?

    Was he censured?

    • 10
      EU Watch says:

      You mean Graham Watson.

      I don’t think he was censured, but is still standing on the graves of about 80 odd people who died.

  6. 6
    richardmillett says:

    So Ward is allowed to continue equating Auschwitz with the West Bank and Gaza? How nice of the Liberal Democrats. With the prospect of Lib/Lab after 2015 will the last Jew to leave Britain please turn out the lights.

    • 106
      Anonymous says:

      The difference is that we closed down Auschwitz but in 2013 we still permit Irasel to continue it’s monumental crimes in the West Bank and Gaza.

      • 108
        Damned Impertinent Questions says:

        I know> Shooting back at all those rockets is shocking

        • 113
          Anonymous says:

          It’s the existance of Palestine that’s threatened, not Is arel.
          Wronged Palestinians have no recourse but to take the law into their own hands.

          • JG says:

            Wronged palastinians, who live in the only Democracy in the Middle East. Wronged by whom? By their own leaders post Israeli Independence who told them to leave? Wronged by a country who continuously invites them to peace which they refuse? And tell me, which law allows one to fire rockets at civilian areas with no intention whatsoever of harming any military or strategic location?

    • 120
      Ian 'the moose' Abrahams says:

      There’s no business like shoah business

  7. 7
    David Ward MP says:

    Ha ha ha fuck off Israel, I got away with it as all lib Dems support my views Allah Akbar Allah Akbar Allah Akbar

  8. 8
    Jenny Tongues Mohammad's butt crack says:

    Great words there. A vote for the Lib Dems is a vote for Hamas.

  9. 12
    Blowing Whistles says:

    “First” to get a post up – have I had it thrust upon me – oh … no I haven’t.

    • 16
      Vlad the Impaler says:

      Always happy to thrust a post up you, should you wish.

    • 21
      Sydney Carton says:

      Have you ever met anyone in life who is not a low-life duplicitous bar steward?

      • 29
        Blowing Whistles says:

        Yes – they are not members of the bar counsel or the law society. Stick that up yer jackass.

        • 37
          Sydney Carton says:

          So all members of the Bar Council and all members of the Law Society are low-life duplicitous bar stewards and anyone who is not a member of either is OK. Is that right?

          • Blowing Whistles says:

            Spin me up some more rhetoric Sydney …. BTW the answer to your question is yes and it includes lying duplicitous members such as Ming Campbell soup of the Scoootich L S and “Faculty of advocates” – as well.

            Go to – and do some research …. I’ve done my work over the past ten years.

          • Sydney Carton says:

            So taking this slowly. Fred West of Cromwell Street, Gloucester, was neither a member of the Bar Council nor a member of the Law Society. That makes him OK in your book? Yes?

          • Blowing Whistles says:

            SC – Oh you do tend to be quite ludicrous in your pitiful crass retorts at attempting to belittle one. Do please try harder.

          • Sydney Carton says:

            Yes or No is all that is required here. You know the form.

          • Blowing Whistles says:

            Who the F do you think you are in your own lunchtime Sydney C?

            Are you still beating up your wife and abusing your children?

    • 109
      Damned Impertinent Questions says:

      Sorry …I am an expert at the thrusting game

  10. 13
    Mossad says:

    It would be wise for him to sleep with one eye open from this point on. Just sayin’. Shalom.

  11. 15
    Hamas Spokesman says:

    Many thanks once again to the useful idiots of the British left. Once our brothers have power we will reward you by having you first against the wall. Especially your ugly women, tongue, Toynbee and that little girl Owen Jones.

    • 17
      Abu al-Buma says:

      In my land we do not know whether a woman is ugly. Have Owen Jones washed and brought to my tent.

  12. 18

    Never mind Guido tomorrow is another day and as they say, another day, another abject failure.

  13. 19
    Blowing Whistles says:

    Please note the letter which has come into the public domain – for the public to swallow.

    Is one not entitled to hold a view or a world view on matters – unless of course it makes some people queasy and go fucking ape5hit & completely EffingOTT about their life-times perception of what they have been ‘told’ / ‘indoctrinated’ into thinking.

    there are NO – “No-Go areas” in the modern world. Questions have been asked – how come some do not want to address the questions – what with ‘new evidence that has come to see the light of day’?

    Winchester Crown Court – know different ‘cos it’s on file there.

    • 24
      Not Blowing Whistles says:

      It isn’t really about no-go areas, and the letters are very much what one would expect to see with respect to a formal warning exchange.

      This was very much to the point of inappropriate use of rhetoric by a member of government on a matter he clearly has no real interest in or knowledge thereof.

      Before one is concerned about the particular groups involved etc. it should be noted that you could transpose this exchange to that involving Armenia and it should rightly attract precisely the same level of criticism.

      This has been a further good example for those interested in such matters to see how propaganda can provoke conflict though, and thoroughly distort the perceptions of all observers, yet hide the fundamental flaw of a faulty argument.

      The only thing which is not clear, and have not looked up yet either, is what ‘formally censured’ actually means. It would not be credible to assume that his undertaking will be realistic if he is needed in office to speak on issues surrounding the Middle East.

      That destroys the credibility of this formal process.

      For that both Ward and Carmichael should be ‘censured’.

      • 30
        Jaded Jean says:

        Funny how that woman on BBC 1 last night no. A11…lah blah blah survived the hollerhoax totally intact!

        • 35
          Not Blowing Whistles says:

          Honestly: I do not watch BBC except for edited highlites of some stuff on uTube every now and then, with emphasis on the every.

          If you let me know what show the woman was on will try to look up and provide an informed comment :-)

          • Blowing Whistles says:

            Look up the Despatches Prog P Oborne did a few years ago about the Holo Victims in NY and how they have been ‘left to rot’ – while others … well watch the prog and you might learn something.

          • Not Blowing Whistles says:

            I am working my way through the Oborne progs at the moment, and that one is on my radar. Thank you for the recommendation.

            Still on the fence with Peter though: He seems credible, on the whole, but there is a certain edge in his presentation which makes me doubt.

            Not questioning anyone’s judgement of him, or his honesty either, but he makes my whiskers twitch a certain way.

            Am familiar with the NY issue you speak of, would refer you to my other post further down the thread on the fallacy of false collectivist groupings and projecting false behavioral assumptions thereon.

            One should not underestimate the psychological toll that the concentration camps had on the majority of people who survived them. I can only say right now that it is very wrong to make a relative moral judgement in this regard unless fully familiar with all of the facts: That is not a criticism of your statement though.

            Also, I say that in ignorance of Oborne’s presentation.

          • Sydney Carton says:

            Your remarks about P O could have fallen from my lips too. There is always some doubt about his pieces which, however good in many other respects, leaves one with guard still up.

            I bid you goodnight, sir. It would seem that the place is much quieter than usual and I have an interesting case in the morning.

      • 33
        Blowing Whistles says:

        Or are they not craven individuals who are utterly beholden to a criminally corrupt political system which has been infiltrated by those who hold the purse-strings against what is the TRUTH – THE UNPALATABLE TRUTH – That has come to light after decades of deception propaganda and bilge?

        Why do you think no one dare mention my name or try to sue me / have me nicked ‘again’ falsely – in the so called ‘free press’?

        Lickspittals like Maguire, Hitchens, Toynbee, Rayner, Martin, Burt etcetera – they know but they take the coin rather than be truthful or dare I say it honest.

        • 39
          Carl Bernstein says:

          There is no record of a Mr. Blowing Whistles on the Winchester Crown Court records.

          • Blowing Whistles says:

            I have one of hundreds of copies of the “Court produced” – Transcript.

            It’s a bit “hot” for some people to Understand / Undertake – But it undoes the judges et les amis.

          • Carl Bernstein says:

            OK. One hundred copies is no better than one. How do I see it? Don’t worry about the question of understanding. I have uncovered much more complex things than you will ever experience. And I won as you should know.

          • Blowing Whistles says:

            Carl / follow the money – follow your instincts – I HAVE BEEN GIVING CLUES FOR LONG ENOUGH.

            BTW – Try Hoover as the instigator of the JFK killings – them blackmailed or complicit homos by the commies – whoahh!

          • Carl Bernstein says:

            One thing at a time please. JEH and the killer/s of JFK are not going to have any bearing on Winchester Crown Court. I want to investigate your case so you have to give me your proper name or the case number for me to be able to look it up. It will be a matter of public record anyway. But many cases are heard there and if I guess I will probably select the wrong case. You may have given clues but they are insufficiently clear for me to take this any further without knowing.

        • 43
          Not Blowing Whistles says:

          I think you know well that some communities are actually somewhat divided and just being of a common faith, or even from a certain country in no way guarantees your ‘brother’ would not throw you under the nearest bus.

          Such distorted perceptions are the bane of those exposed to collectivist rationales.

          On the immediate issue at hand, it is somewhat taboo to enquire too closely why so many in France survived, but those who fled into France did not.

          Many dark secrets can larger admissions conceal:

          http://tinyurl.com/clrfcl

          This was not isolated to France.

          The problem with the truth is that unless you really were there, or until certain government seals are broken, any real claims of truth are strictly only shades of credible theory rather than indisputable fact.

      • 36
        Blowing Whistles says:

        NBW – a subject matter which he as you state “… has no real interest in or knowledge thereof.”

        I have come upon the knowledge and by God the evidence that I hold damns so many. Including so many stoooopid and deluded but craven Christians.

        • 52
          Not Blowing Whistles says:

          The trick to realizing the power of knowledge and evidence, true or otherwise, is that of instilling belief in other people.

          For that presentation is all important: Establishing comfortable credibility is paramount, as is retaining interest.

          Most are not interested in believing the truth. People prefer the more comfortable fiction of familiarity.

          The moral question for those in power is where the boundaries between truth and fiction should be set, and hence how comfort is tuned.

          Changing this status quo in the masses is very delicate indeed: History shows well how ill conceived changes can lead to bad outcomes. The genocide in Rwanda of 1994 is a particularly instructive example.

          If you wish to realize the power of what you currently believe is the truth, on the basis of documents which you hold, then if the moral consequence of that action will be a positive for others it is your duty to do that. If the consequences are not beneficial, or there is any doubt, then it is best to keep them under wraps and enjoy being in a position of mute privilege.

          At present one does question if certain truths are being concealed for amoral reasons. One hopes not, as when the people eventually learn of that they may react badly.

          Ignorance is a blessed bliss, but amoral deception will release anger.

          • Arse fuck for freedom says:

            You talk in absurd riddles. Science and factual evidence will out.

            Google jaded jean, statist, tabblenabble, brown-dog on the bbc website for enlightenment.

          • Not Blowing Whistles says:

            Have checked through your Google recommendations and all looks good. I was talking from a metaphysical perspective.

            Factual evidence may emerge and science may play a part in that, or its objectivity may be used to determine fact and enhance credibility.

            Was not talking in riddles, but talking about the notion of how to realize the power of facts and evidence. That power lays in altering peoples beliefs.

            There was a case recently which for many seemed so unbelievable despite facts and evidence being out there. What tipped the balance ?

            Presentation by a child protection officer on ITV. The credibility of the presentation, and the presentation sourcing from a credible source (ITV / Police specialist) is what altered peoples belief systems and thus forced a shift in belief. The ripples are still not settled in this regard.

            Facts and fictions have zero value until people adopt a belief in them and turn those notions into either a physical or emotional reality. At that point facts and fictions have great power.

            To your point on science, the recent debacle with AGW is interesting. It is not an isolated case, but is an important example of how an otherwise objective value system can be distorted to build credibility for subjective result, which is predetermined.

            Thankfully people have not lost their belief in science as a result, but if people did then we could very easily return to a less enlightened state.

            It is notable though that scientific method has been very helpful in honing techniques of belief manipulation, propaganda, such that it is relatively simple now to have people reverse their understanding of what is a square and what is a circle.

            If you believe that statement as well, half the job is done.

    • 32
      Sydney Carton says:

      You are a murderer.
      You are a pedophile.
      You have stolen from your employers.
      You have raped your mother.
      You have not paid your tax.
      You wear frilly pink knickers.

      You don’t mind me saying any of this regardless of whether it is true or false?
      You don’t mind if you get arrested and imprisoned based on such evidence?
      You don’t mind losing your job because of it?
      You don’t mind people spitting at you in the street and pushing crap through your letterbox because of it?

      No no-go areas? Think again.

      The same goes for Kebab Time above.

    • 110
      Damned Impertinent Questions says:

      “one not entitled to hold a view ”

      Of course one is entitled to be as racist as one likes (within the law) but that doesnt mean that the rest of us or a party have to tolerate your presence in their ranks butit seems however that the Lib Dems have chosen to

  14. 23
    albacore says:

    Funny, the verboten words we can’t use
    With scant restriction on filthy abuse
    Is there still a nine o’ clock watershed
    When all the innocents are safe in bed?

    • 34
      Tay King-dePisse says:

      Dunno ’bout that, but I just got a screen, when I posted at 11:32 pm, that said “server undergoing maintenance, hit refresh in five minutes if posting a comment.” I did so, and my post went through with no problem. I’m wondering if Guido has implemented a curfew for YouTube links that goes on at, say, 11:30 or so to foil Daffy the Taffy. I’m going to try to post a video in a moment.

      • 40
        Tay King-dePisse says:

        This is NOT Guido singing, in case you’re wondering, but the title probably expresses what you, me and he feel when the Welsh Wacko shows up:

        • 41
          Tay King-dePisse says:

          That wasn’t it, then– but dammit, don’t you think it should have been?

        • 111
          Damned Impertinent Questions says:

          Do McDonalds know Ronald is moonlighting?

          Has The Stig found a new career since Top Gear fired him?

      • 58
        albacore says:

        Obliged to you for that, T K-deP. I got the same message and wondered if it was a scam; did a virus scan and Lord knows what after waiting the requested five minutes.
        I wasn’t moaning about Guido’s censorship – it’s his website – but about the sanctimonious hypocrisy of the great and good, politically correct thought police paragons.

      • 68
        Descartes: Blogger in a vat says:

        Saw that as well and wondered what it was.

        Maybe routine maintenance, or are we now on segregated servers ?

        Is this the good server or the naughty server ? Blue pill or red pill ? Am I now #6, #1 or perhaps #2 ?

        Seems very quiet, and discourse appears sensible.

        • 74
          Tachybaptus says:

          The message may have shown that Guido was setting a block on Toxic Taffy’s ISP number, which is something you can do with WordPress, and of course it works for any silly name that the troll chooses — until he discovers how to change his ISP number, in which case you have to do it again.

          However, there has been no evidence of TT this evening, which suggests to me that Guido blocked him earlier, and if so, good for him; and that the message meant that some perfectly ordinary kind of routine maintenance really was taking place, and all our wild imaginings were in vain.

          • Carl Bernstein says:

            Some stuff had fallen under the automated symposiarch tonight and were released. I imagined that, due to the sensitivities to the case which dare not speak its name, he was looking in on things and so was able to deal with TT at the same time.

            I think you might be disappointed if you knew who TT might be, Tachy. It seems highly likely to be someone who has been around a while and posted in a highly idiosyncratic form.

            As Samuel Pepys would say And so to bed. Laku Noc.

          • Tachybaptus says:

            Carl, I’m sure I would be disappointed if TT turned out to be anything less than a giant ithyphallic goat with flaming horns. But he didn’t smell like anyone on here before, at least not to me. We get obsessional bores and people who can’t shut up and don’t know how obnoxious they appear, but this one seemed to be completely out of control, a manic depressive at the top of the most extreme cycle possible. It was like watching a flasher over and over again, ugly and pathetic. I was disgusted and sorry for him at the same time, not a good mixture of feelings. I hope he’s gone.

          • Descartes: Blogger in a vat says:

            Very bipolar and just a tiny bit surreal. Well said sir.

          • Catty Comment (Ms) says:

            I too get that from time to time, but I do not wait 5 minutes before re-pressing the ‘submit’ button and the post usually goes straight through.

            I did wonder, however, if that mini interruption may be caused by our host posting his latest offering and thus halting the website function until this is completed.

            Just a thought….

        • 75
          albacore says:

          Don’t know about Alice and The Prisoner but there’s more than a hint of the Quatermass IIs about these days.

          • Descartes: Blogger in a vat says:

            Agreed. Even TT was alluding to that the other day with his ‘Island’ monika… (thinking of close to filming locations…)

  15. 25
    Tay King-dePisse says:

    Check to see how many times Ward will use the phrase “Certain People” from now on.
    Might be interesting.

  16. 28
    Nick Griffin says:

    WTF!!!

    • 38
      Blowing Whistles says:

      You were very lucky to have been acquitted in your Cr Court case – weren’t you?
      While of course ‘others’ have been banged up & put away – to try and teach them to shut up! what was that all about Nick, nudge, nudge, eh?

  17. 31
    Yawn! says:

    so what must you call these people, the people that were given a little bit of land after WW2 who have since stolen virtually all of palestine?

  18. 44
    Blowing Whistles says:

    You can’t have a decent adult, civil, conversation with politicians, lawyers, religious persons, judges, hacks or coppers these days – they have too many hidden agendas and self protection agendas and their self-serving egotisticle financial ends to look after before they will entertain the the views of any old member of the public.

    • 48
      Sydney Carton says:

      Neither with yourself it seems.

      You never answer questions directly, do you?

      • 59
        Blowing Whistles says:

        Oh do have ‘another go’ Mr Amateur Troll – re-read some 1000 plus comments of mine over the past 6 to 9 months on here and then come back at me with your pissy little retorts.

      • 60
        Blowing Whistles says:

        You could be SC – if I wasn’t mistaken Ho Hum.

        • 67
          Sydney Carton says:

          I am indeed Sydney Carton. It says so above this post. What is the problem? I have a very good reputation which you can verify if you wish.

        • 69
          C.J. Stryver says:

          I can vouch for young Sydney, best young chap a fellow could work with in the two cities of old.

      • 65
        Blowing Whistles says:

        WAITER! WAITER! WAITER! – Yet another saucer of milk for the obese Fat Cat in the corner…….!

  19. 46
    Weygand says:

    A Pyrrhic victory – silencing (supposed) antisemitism doesn’t defeat it – quite the contrary.
    Far from winning an argument by stopping the other person having his say,you persuade him that he must be on to something and reinforce his prejudice.
    “Ah Guido, you were the future once” – but how long before you go the way of Iain Dale?

  20. 56
    Blowing Whistles says:

    Who else wants some – I got facts and facts and more facts … oh and evidence – I got plenty to back it all up.

    Night night.

    • 71
      Sydney Carton says:

      This person talks big about facts but never produces a single one. No one ever won anything in court, criminal or civil, without producing facts. Has anyone else here seen any of these alleged facts? I do not have the time to trawl back through 1000 comments unpaid on the off-chance of finding something.

      • 76
        Not Blowing Whistles says:

        Tried tracing some back a while ago.

        Got as far as law firms who specialize in providing political lobbying services.

        In particular parliamentary agents:

        http://tinyurl.com/av9vd58

        The first one on the A list BW has mentioned.

        whoslobbying dot com indicates they have been involved with settling large tax disputes, regulation of charitable sector, rail freight and stuff concerned with labour market for work + pensions.

        They also represent many local authorities, and have been involved in an odd attempted property transaction with a famous square property at SW1V 3LX. Looks like attempted ‘front’ buyout IMHO: The transaction not the firm looked very fishy.

        The firm itself appears to be outside of the magic / silver circles but in political terms they have serious clout.

        Couldn’t see anything else, but have not looked back at it for a while.

        • 126
          Blowing Whistles says:

          BDB are a bunch of crooks – they’ve done deals for mur.doch and son in evading over to Luxeborg and even handled the [I can't - 'oddly' enough mention his name directly on here without the botmooder creeping in - now why's that?] or should I say m,anipulated for the gov’t the ‘look’ at the death of Dav.id RD Ke..lly.

          You know whitwash of the H u t man.

          Oh – can BDB come back at me – well no … not without me blowing the whistle on them – which I have been at quietly.

          As For the Carl Bestein blogger above – get fooked you twat – If I can silence carl Gardner and his webshite [on his w/shite] inc Melanoma fliplips and her rosy berk of a husband – do you think I need some twat phising for clues. Clueless CB – that’s what you are.

    • 77
      Whistles says:

      Don’t speak with your mouth full

  21. 84
    not a machine says:

    I would think that line on NN has to go in the classics file “you owe the UK £2.1bn are you going to pay it back ?”

    I didnt catch all the questions in HS2 debate , although there was certainly a lot going off in TV . Now you have to bear with me on this one , as only a few years ago I was the proud recipient of a lib dem leaflet for manfesto which included (wait for it) a brand new high speed magnetic levitation line and train , which would offer 300mph . This is a labour developed plan , perhaps we should know better in just knowing that , however great words and grand launch . The words “carefully think about transport integration” popped up a couple of times . and then of all people lab treasury member thought mmm thats a long way off cant we get cracking on somthing now …..
    Infrastructure spending is very much one of those things governments can get terribly wrong , Jo Coburn in a thro away line , mmm but spain has a high speed network and hows that helped the economy ? Might want to throw France in there with ministers new statement .
    The eco casualties are bad enough although in the scale of things , the housebuilding one is more detrimental to wealth longer term . Ok its only £1bn a year and somthing like £300mn has gone on it already without a bulldozer used . The FOI on the basis for the project , which ended up being read in court as the dept for transport declined any other realease, is bad enough . It descended into nimbyism , or a trickle of warm words about how much our great northern cities would benefit and compensation thorughness.

    George Osbourne is today concerned that Labour will heist his legacy , mmm well in his legacy we must not forget to include HS2 , we must not forget that the full Y route has been checked from top to bottom , as an excellent and wealth creating idea , by the chancellor . Yes he will wager the shirt of everyone elses back that this project is where we should be , 10000 jobs in construction , 100000 jobs when its all done (20yrs from now) errr hold on a mo £34bn for 100000 jobs in 20 yrs , ah well there will be all the building , concrete and steel activity over the 20yrs , mmm well has a little bit of promise . Theres a slight problem about if £34bn is the end figure , but no problem tax payer commited …. and could do more harm to economy , lets just dodge that one for now as a blank cheque matter not for the prols ,our MPs have spoken !
    Of course Osbournes legacy will be in tatters the moment it hits a £10bn overspend , will need more austerity to cover extra cost , but lets not dwell on the negative vibes , only 1hr from manc to london etc etc whoopee .
    Now at this point you may be thinking ah but where is the revenue and wealth aspects , for surely the main reason all these people will be supposedly traveling to London is for the day out , although clearly some new commutes could be on ….. so basically people in northern cities are going to go to london to spend there cash , kerching london shopping , ah but that doesnt really help northern cities , spending away from there own shops .

    There are few aspects I might dispute about times , but even BBC manged to ponder question , of what the ticket prices may be like …. tralaaa .

    Anyone who has studied railway economcs , will tell you , that when first built they did a cost benefit analysis it was private money , they will also tell you getting your revenues all wrong is a tragedgy as you have fixed costs that you cannot really ever get back . I mean how much money is the spanish high speed rail currently returning to the economy ??

    There are a few other matters regarding consequential rail use patterns , we know the capaicty of the channel tunnel , so you can back caluculate how many extra HS eurostar departures from around the country will be possible , to help with national useage projections ……

    Far be it for me from my humble position in life , to have already identified where the project will flunk with tax payer having a few additonal years to fork out for ….. far be it for me to suggest you could have more jobs if you analysed it in a different way , oh what the hell , let me give you my idea .

    Subsidise network frieght track use costs to the tune of £1bn a year starting this year run it for 5 yrs , let private money build the freght yards (although carefully consider locations and working methods) , you should end up with 100000 jobs in 5yrs , some inflation improvement , cheaper goods to channel tunnel , some building activity etc all for £5bn …….. end of tax payer liabitiy, more local jobs and industry (spread/ create wealth) . I might double chiltern line to 4 track and electrify it , connect it into cross rail . smooth out WCML so it can do what signalling is for 140mph , hey presto half of HS2 case basis sorted as you run WCML trains faster , capacity sorted , frieght business increasing …… minimal passenger fare increases (more money in economy plus more money from not building HS2= more growth)

    see how the wonks computer works that one ……

    • 85
      UK Watch says:

      Awesome post.

      Agree that focus on freight and improving existing capacity would be the best foot forward. Something needs to be done to get a lot of freight off of the roads seeing as we are a net importer of oil now. Rail would be more efficient vs. road haulage as it currently stands, and when the costs are drawn up may actually pay for itself within 10 years, assuming that no Ghawar field shows up in our bit of the North Sea.

      My gut is telling me that the freight distribution system in place at present is likely not to be economically viable in 10 years or less.

      Off the current map, but dept transport may want to reassess whether a rail link for the London Gateway Super Port may be a good idea. I think on the plans I have seen there is now track down between London and Channel Tunnel which is not far from where that port is being built.

      (Would love to see some of the canal system brought back in to use, but that may not be practical…)

      • 90
        Lou Scannon says:

        H2S is all about shifting people rather than freight, and surely only business people, come to that.
        Wouldn’t you think that it would make more sense to concentrate on the exploitation of technology to minimise the need for these potential users to travel in the first place ?
        The possibility of laying seriously high-speed broadband connections along the path of the train tracks is seemingly being used as a rather pathetic justification for building the tracks. We’d do rather better to concentrate solely on the communication technology and ditch the unnecessary train projects altogether.

  22. 86
    O/T : Royal Question says:

    So, is it going to be Anne II or Charles III next ?

  23. 92
    redcliffe62 says:

    Prefer Anne to Chuvk ever since she said naff off and won a medal for jumping on a rather large stallion. She also competed at the Olympics at horse jumping.

  24. 93
  25. 94
    Sporting Gijon says:

    Interesting how even the Liberals are censoring free speech and that this man cannot use certain words.

  26. 95
    IDF says:

    A “formal censure” is too good for this twat.

  27. 96
    Owen Jones says:

    These MPs/Lords voted through Cameron’s NHS bill, knowing they would benefit financially. Why did they not abstain? http://tinyurl.com/84j5wex

  28. 102
    BigBen says:

    The front page of the BBC site features a prominent positioned article “Murdoch apology over Scarfe cartoon………… which brought complaints of anti-Semitism”

    For some inexplicable reason another apology for making and repeating anti-Semitic remarks was not considered sufficiently news-worthy to make the front page.

    Who would have guessed?

  29. 116
    MacGuffin says:

    When will Guido drop his obsession with this non-story? Yes, the Greater Israel lobby has roughed up someone for daring to speak his mind. Does Guido need to gloat?

  30. 121
    Admiral Ackbar says:

    Fear not people, Mossad have sent an operative to ‘sort’ him out.

  31. 122
    keredybretsa says:

    Take 50 lines or say 10 hail Marys and all is hunky bunky! But what happened to the swastika in the picture???

  32. 124
    Anonymous says:

    goodbye free speech, there is something dodgy going on when a person is not allowed to say something, either in the debate or in any other circumstances.


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Rod Liddle on the loony UN sexism special rapporteur:

“There is more sexism in Britain than in any other country in the world, according to a mad woman who has been sent here by the United Nations.

Rashida Manjoo is a part-time professor of law at Cape Town University in the totally non-sexist country of South Africa (otherwise known as Rape Capital Of The World).

Mrs Magoo has been wandering around with her notebook and is appalled by the sexist “boys’ club” culture here, apparently.

I don’t doubt we still have sexism in the UK. But is it worse than in, say, Saudi Arabia, d’you think, honey-lamb? Or about 175 other countries? Get a grip, you doolally old bat.”



orkneylad says:

What’s he been doing FFS, mining bitcoins?


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