January 26th, 2013

Saturday Seven Up

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You’re either in front of Guido, or behind…


515 Comments

  1. 1

    My response to Frederick Gideon Threepwood who posted:
    I suggest you read the Israeli report on the Lebanese invasion if you belive Ward’s comments are completely OTT

    On this subject, I have read more column inches over the decades than there are miles to the moon. I have read first-hand and second-hand accounts. I have travelled almost every mile of the territory on the ground, both in and around the surrounding countries of Israel and seen evidence on the ground and in museums where either side seeks to present its own view. I still count myself as knowing next to nothing as the matter is so complex.

    This is where you need to be more specific if you want me to consider your argument. In normal speech the words Lebanon invasion imply that Lebanon is doing the invasion (indeed, Lebanon did invade Israel in 1948.) Somehow, I do not think you are talking about this though (Did you know that conveniently ignored fact BTW? I afford you the credit that you did for now.)

    The words invasion of Lebanon are what I think you were really meaning to say. So looking at that situation, both Syria and Israel have invaded the country, the latter more times but the former for a vastly longer time. In fact, I visited the country whilst it was under the control of Syria, in the time of Hafez al-Assad who signally failed to observe the Taif Accord.

    If you would be more specific about exactly which report you refer, I shall of course read it. But for Ward to use the term Jеw as he did only serves to underline his complete and clearly wilful ignorance and prejudice.

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    • 19
      order-order marketing intern says:

      Boring. Get off your hobby horse and read something like Viz to broaden your appeal.

      Like

    • 27
      Communist Purpose says:

      Sir Bob Kerslake Head of the Civil Service, Communist Purpose member with rather ‘interesting’ career to date.

      Google Sheffield City Council corruption.

      Like

    • 48
      Expat Geordie says:

      Nice comment SC. Ward seems to have forgotten that many things in war are OTT, and that it isn’t a sterile little environment that they can pass judgment on from their ivory towers. In any war both sides will carry out acts that in retrospect were excessive, brutal, etc.

      I think that the difference is that the IDF specifically have it written into their code of conduct that “I was only obeying orders” is not an acceptable excuse and that you can legally disobey an immoral order. The IDF is also subject to the constraints of public opinion and as such their soldiers have been imprisoned for what many would class as “war crimes”. I have yet to see any arabs punished by their own people for this.

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    • 57
      Blowing Whistles says:

      SC – I seem to remember the Goldstone report on Gaza. its ‘content’ was greatly ignored and on the contrary its author his life and person was attacked smeared and he generallly rubbished.

      Now isn’t that the ‘form’ of those who only wish to distract from the reality.

      Address the issues yes – but when you / they / some organisation attack the man – well “They lose their argument” there and then. And the Author of the report was of course a South African Jewish Rabbi.

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      • 222

        Ah! I see you have been under the influence of the m0d. BW. Commiserations.

        I did not read it at the time as I was in the aftermath of having emigrated.

        Having said that, when did I attack the man as you seem to claim? When have I ever attacked any person who engages in bona fide argument? So kindly amend your statement accordingly or provide proof.

        I have all sorts of friends who hold every type of political view. There is nothing wrong in honest disagreement, only the way in which the difference is dealt with.

        To your point about Richard Goldstone, I believe him to be a scrupulously honest and very courageous man. As justification for that I show a link to a Guardian article (not a paper noted for being in sympathy with the broad stream of opinion here :-)) in which he notes his regret about the report to which you appear to refer.

        http://bit.ly/h6lKIW

        It is a pity about the reaction from Ma’ariv to this retraction but the larger circulation Yedioth Ahronoth demonstrated a more mature approach.

        Nothing is clean in warfare but it does not get much better than this.

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        • 239
          Blowing Whistles says:

          Yes I was mooded.
          SC – re-read my piece – I was not implying you attacked the man / me.

          It is a well know fact that groups of powerful people who do not like the views expressed by individuals – will generally attack and smear the individual in order to deflect and distract from the issue and content of what the individual has stated.

          SC – Months ago I battered those who attacked me and the content of what I was stating. You at one point were attacking me for the wrong reasons.

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          • I have reread it and you said (my emphasis):

            Address the issues yes – but when you / they / some organisation attack the man – well “They lose their argument” there and then.

            A bona fide argument contains two parts: a claim and reasons for it. One must offer both parts for it to qualify as a bona fide argument.

            I challenge you to link one single instance where I … at one point [was] attacking [you] for the wrong reasons… in respect of a bona fide argument, as so defined, that you had presented.

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          • Blowing Whistles says:

            SC – I refer you to my comment at 132 below Re the propaganda film QB VII – no one has come back at me (that I am aware of) and debunked every assertion I have made about that film it’s being a 1970’s propaganda piece etcetera.

            my arguments and assertions stand as they have done since I first asked you and others to source and watch the film – with the knowledge of what has happened ‘since’ it was made. By the Mid 70’s they had ramped up the figure to 12 million … lets be having some sense not nonsense from you SC.

            Like

          • I am interested in:
            1. bona fide argument as previously defined
            2. where the subject is on topic for this blog’s slant
            3. proper news
            4. humour of a type that makes your brain work
            5. things that give a useful insight into life
            6. political hypocrisy uncovered
            7. attractive women (they don’t have to be A-listers, better not in fact) especially those who are intelligent which ramps up the attractiveness further for me.
            8. anything else that has aesthetic appeal. The arts can often help in understanding more mundane things in life which may appear baffling (only if done well)
            9. good argument. I do not have to agree with my interlocutor. Often it is better to argue with someone of different persuasion as it helps to sharpen your argument.

            I do not like:
            1. badly constructed or fallacious argument, unless it is presented satirically
            2. topic degraded for no benefit
            3. irrelevant news.
            4. poorly attempted humour particularly of the cut and paste type
            5. paths that lead to nowhere
            6. dogma
            7. masturbating to pictures of the Eagle sisters
            8. wall to wall videos that have no relevance here, even as to mood
            9. claims made which can’t be substantiated. That includes conspiracy theories and all tin foil hat stuff.

            You said above You at one point were attacking me for the wrong reasons. You accused me of an ad hominem attack upon you in response to your valid argument. I challenged you to link an example. If I have ever done that, then I will willingly apologise. You have failed to find such example – because there isn’t one.

            Finis

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          • Pratt Watch says:

            @SC do you call out your own name when climaxing?

            Like

          • Just Sayin says:

            re: your dislike number 7

            In order to implicitly dislike something, one has had to have tried it.

            When was that Sc?

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          • As far as I know, you are the first and only one ever to do that.

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          • Bob Diamond says:

            Been bashing the banker again?

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          • Blowing Whistles says:

            SC – I cannot make you take your blinkers off.

            You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

            btw you did apologise to me recently – however that is for you to find.
            We must move along now.

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          • I was brought up to be courteous, BW. We all make mistakes and when we do, we should not be slow in admitting to them and apologising.

            It is not really the place for those who insinuate to then call for things to move on when the argument no longer suits. However, I have discussed your comment with someone else who says that it is ambiguous and can be read in more than one way. If I should have interpreted it the wrong way, then I am more than delighted to apologise again.

            But I will always hold people to proof of allegations. Naturally, that includes you.

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    • 66
      Anonymous says:

      As someone who has worked with all sides in the region. In cramped areas, like air-raid shelters, and stuck with average workers for hours on end, I can say with some confidence that the problem is simple.

      The solution is however impossible.

      There are in my view only two factions in the whole region. Those that hate, and those that just get on with their life. It seems these groups will never be reconciled.

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      • 77

        I think there is much truth in what you say but, as in every area in life, there is an escape from the seemingly impossible situation where common good can be established. The Northern Ireland situation is one although we still see some diehard haters which you so correctly identify.

        But if these bilateral conflicts are relatively simple compared with Bosnia, not a huge distance from me as I write, where three parties were in dispute. Where people from the same family found each other on opposite sides of an armed struggle. The building group I had on my house had one Catholic, one Orthodox and one Muslim only a decade after they had been fighting.

        I have been to all their hometowns and have been entertained with incredible hospitality. There is always a way.

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        • 80
          Aha says:

          You are Paddy Ashdown and I claim my 5 free spayings.

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        • 86
          Anonymous says:

          Giving power to those that terrorise is not a solution. It is capitulation.

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          • What was that saying about one side who had won and were too thick to know it – whilst the other side had lost and were too clever to say it?

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          • Anonymous says:

            Commies have lost and are too thick to realise it (the fall of the Berlin wall, The Chinese embrace of capitalism etc, etc.) The Right have won but are too busy clearing up the mess of the left to do anything effective.

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          • It is clearly an old saying that has been used, partly mischievously, over the centuries in all sorts of situations. It contains a nice verbal symmetry whilst in reality an even more delicious asymmetry. The last time I heard it used was in respect of NI. Given the current fragility there, I opted not to cite it directly.

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        • 121
          Anonymous says:

          One side living in 19th century and other living in 12th century is a problem.

          S class Mercedes and cash kept is quiet for a while. Might be more S class Mercedes and cash might keep it quiet for some more time.

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    • 91
      שליט says:

      We are the chosen people who should rule other than those who are chosen?

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      • 97
        Sir William says:

        That’s unscriptural. J-wish prophecy envisages the establishment, eventually, of a H-brew kingdom which is recognised by the rest of the world as pre-eminent because of its godliness, not any kind of secular empire.

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        • 344
          Anonymous says:

          You obviously haven’t checked out the T a l mud, do yourself a favour and google
          TALMUD TIDBITS

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    • 107
      Blowing Whistles says:

      OK I will try and post something elsebesides the gold.stone reports author being smeared.

      There is irrefutable proof that the figure of 6 million had been touted as early as 1902 – there are some 200 plus others references to it and all were made prior to 1939.

      To admit that the figure was used and managed / manipulated is to admit that the whole post 1945 story needs to be revisited and its veracity verified. But many become incandescent with rage at such a prospect … now “why” would that be?

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      • 118
        CHRIST ON A BIKE! says:

        because such a prospect is only ever raised by N@z1 sympathizers and die-hard anti-S3mites?

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        • 130
          The truth maybe N@z1 says:

          New York Times (hardly N@z1), June 1900 – and many other sources of that period.

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        • 131
          Blowing Whistles says:

          COAB – you posit that it is only ever raised by x, y and z. In other words you conveniently want to and set out to smear anyone who raises the subject as x, y and z. You sir are wrong and your framing it up as such shows you to have one agenda [One eyed] – that being to smear anyone who dares to raise the subject. Intellect and intelligent discourse is wanted not headless chicken-5hit smearing.

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          • CHRIST ON A BIKE! says:

            Perhaps because you have posted many comments pertaining to jooish conspiracies etc and are therefore not confined to arguing about numbers of genocide victims. My contention still holds true, those who argue about the number of holocaust victims are almost invariably N@zis and anti-s3mites. The NYT is the US equivalent of the Guardian and the Left’s recent anti-s3mitism is very well understood.

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          • Blowing Whistles says:

            COAB – your tin foil hat is slipping – now your stating “almost invariably”.

            If you remember – months ago I pointed people to look at an old Anthony Hopkins film “QB VII” (Queens Bench VII) and I made several comments about it and the book it was based upon. No one has to my mind come back and dismissed my arguments of back then.

            The book was by Leon Uris. the film was total propaganda made in the mid 1970’s – with a 911 twist.

            COAB – you live in a bubble of your own deception and wilful blindness.

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        • 167
          Shut him up! says:

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      • 125
        Dr Who says:

        Let’s get this straight – in 1902, people were reporting that 6 million murders had taken place in the 1940s?

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        • 132
          Blowing Whistles says:

          The figure was being touted.

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          • WVM says:

            Indeed it was.

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          • CHRIST ON A BIKE! says:

            Please provide a link to the NYT errrr.. prediction then.
            All it’s old articles of the period are available online for free. I assume it will be their equivalent of Mystic Meg as they are, very strangely, talking about something that won’t happen for another 40 years! In what context could they have been writing bout this??????

            Please provide proper evidence rather than a few very illogical statements about people using crystal balls or something!

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          • History is written by the victors says:

            I accept propaganda is needed during times of war, but it becomes a bitch to keep going afterward.

            Like

    • 124
      Clueless on Gaza says:

      Excellent points above, shame about the mis-informed / trolls.

      Illegal rejection of UN Res 181 led to the attacks on !srael by it’s neighboring countries which in turn led to the six day war and UN Res 242 which essentially defined the 1967 borders and designated !srael an occupying force in P@lestinian territory.

      It should not be ignored that between 1948 and 1967 !srael had been subject to sporadic attacks by it’s neighbors, and bona-fide war crime events perpetrated by certain NGO groups. !sraels response in most cases was balanced and justified. As the UN itself and the international communities ability to deal with enforcing such law was still early in evolution, many events happened which now can be prevented / deterred.

      The British Mandate on P@lestine passed by League of Nations 1922 is where the problems really started.

      The Transjordan memorandum essentially undid the terms which would have led to formation of an !sraeli state and a J’ewish homeland, more importantly a place for Europe’s J’ews to migrate to.

      Churchill expressed regret later at his involvement (Churchill White Paper 1922), and the position was reaffirmed in the MacDonald White Paper 1939 under Chamberlain.

      The Peel Commission 1937 report set in motion after the 1936 Arab revolt (and pressure from NY Protestant / Catholic leaders) recommended that the region be split into two states.

      The 1936-39 Arab revolt was in response to increased migration of refugee J’ews entering the region following passing of the 1936 Nuremberg Laws which stripped citizenship from J’ews in Germany.

      The MacDonald paper gave veto over J’ewish immigration to what they considered their Homeland to the Arabs. This essentially trapped them in Europe, the Shoah followed, and Roosevelt was only partially able to assist in the then creation of a needed !srali state.

      In historical context, the British were over a barrel of sorts in 1922. as they ‘owed’ a debt to the Hashemite governors of Arabia for their support in defeating the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Caliphate had declared military jihad in support of Germans which was threatening British interests in Africa, India and the Middle East. See Lawrence of Arabia for further details.

      Failure to implement the 1937 Peel recommendations, in context, was a serious failure of Foreign Policy and judgement which perhaps accelerated the destruction of the Empire. Chamberlain’s legacy haunts many to this day.

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      • 155
        Anonymous says:

        It all past, what is the solution?

        In my humble view I cannot see a solution, except to say more S Class Mercedes and bundles of cash to keep peace for a short time.

        Or people has to accept that there is no solution for this problem and let it go on as it is.

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        • 174
          Clueless on Gaza says:

          The only solution will be the establishment of two viable states with enough territory and resources to adequately support themselves and sensible bilateral trade arrangements.

          It is down to those who manage their individual states to reform public opinion and perceptions of those without, and this will take several generations.

          Those remote should recognize the impact of their involvement and act accordingly.

          At present there exists a stalemate: E-1 is a dangerous challenge to the current status quo.

          Looking at the broader picture, one suspects that the map of Syria is likely to change somewhat in the next year or two.

          Independent nation states need to be realized for Sh’!a minorities, Kurds and Sunn!. !srael itself requires more territory, and P@lestine may find annexe as well.

          A stable balance is required between powers, peoples and cultures which can transcend the problems of history. This will be down to Russia and America primarily to resolve.

          The hands of Europe have too much blood on them to be useful in this process. Other than trade, but with strictly no further influence in the region, there is no role for them directly.

          The question of Jerusalem (al-Quds) does need to be resolved. Recognition of UN Res 58/292 by !srael would help, but this city itself should perhaps be designated a separate distinct territory jointly governed by all those who have interest / claim. There are differences there which cannot be resolved through the nation state model alone.

          Access to the landlocked region must be guaranteed by treaty and enforced under international law.

          It is too important and divisive an issue to keep in the same equation as the resolution of P@lestine / !srael state question. However, it is the fly in the ointment which ultimately will cause conflict.

          Like

          • CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

            > two viable states

            Problem: Arab culture guarantees a failed state.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt; I will respect you comment if you are a decent person living there.

            Part of the problem is people like you living in safety and pouring petrol over fire.

            Like

          • Clueless in Gaza says:

            > Problem: Arab culture guarantees a failed state.

            Incorrect.

            The real problem is that deceit over history has made it very difficult for either side to trust each other or those without from being able to settle things.

            It should be recognized though that certain aspects of Arab culture, such as that of the Bedouin, do not fall easily into the nation state model. However, as seen in the UAE and Saud! Arab!a, such groups can exist in successful states.

            The projection of deeply insulting notions of Arab culture via negative propaganda is a major part of the problem. It is interesting to not that the primary source of that propaganda has sourced from Europe: Perhaps as a distraction from more relevant historical facts, and to cover an overt interest in access to certain resources ?

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            One side living in 19th century and other living in 12th century, this is the problem. No one in the west could be able to resolve this.

            If in 1948 Palestinians were paid compensation and moved to other places in Middle East this problem might have been prevented. Now no country or countries can afford to pay compensation and move them on.

            Like

          • Clueless in Gaza says:

            @Anonymous: 19th Century vs. 12th Century living.

            With respect that is again another very dangerous idea that has been put forward through propaganda, which is only partly true. It is also a statement of relative values which really has zero relevance.

            If it is analyzed at face value, the real argument is that Western involvement in the middle east, from colonial times through present has actually been the real failure as it has either not imparted modern values to those colonized, or it has retarded their development. (NB: The correction of Sat! in !ndia is a big notable success from colonial times.)

            Dangerous territory.

            The what ifs: Hindsight is 20:20, but the situation which exists now is the only one that can be solved. If Peel had been followed in 1937, the whole Shoah could have been avoided and WWII as well, or at least some of the nastier aspects of it. But that is not relevant to the solution of the situation now.

            Perhaps if the West had not lost credibility through bad decisions of the past, and necessary dubious policies during the cold war, the Arabian world would be more open to adopting some of our ideas. As it is not all of them live in the 12th century, but if that is the central reference point for rebuilding their culture and society as a people then that is what it is.

            As a thought experiment, consider what would be the case if UK was decimated by rogue foreign agents which caused damage to our culture, identity and way of life. In recovering, the people will seek to identify with their cultural historical roots first and then move forward.

            Carefully consider that point in the context of other debates currently ongoing. A relatively mild intrusion compared with what has happened in other parts of the world.

            Like

          • CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

            If you can point out a majority arab country that’s not a shithole and rapidly getting worse I will be amazed.

            Like

          • Clueless in Gaza says:

            Saudi Arab!a, U@E, Q@tar, Bahra!n, Kuwa!t, Brune!…

            There: Just done 6 for you.

            Emirates is a good airline and quite reasonable if you want to find out more.

            If you want to visit Saudi though, do so before you get an !sraeli passport stamp otherwise you will be refused entry.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt , UAE, Qatar, etc are examples.

            I have to say I cannot remember ever speaking to an Arab or I haven’t ever lived in their countries. But that doesn’t mean I support your irresponsible comments.

            Like

          • CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

            >Saudi Arab!a, U@E, Q@tar, Bahra!n, Kuwa!t, Brune!

            Ha! those countries are all solely supported by swapping oil for wealth created in the west. There’s very little actual wealth produced in any of those countries and as fracking comes on stream they’ll become the new African failed states. They are also all (especially SA!) places where non-mussies are second class citizens, and have lower rights, i.e. (albeit shiny bling encrusted) shit-holes.

            Once again. Is there an arab country that’s not a shit-hole?

            Like

          • Clueless in Gaza says:

            Some export Oil, others export Gas. They also have coal out there. The West would not be able to generate ‘wealth’ without access to those resources. Additionally, the armed forces of the West which project hard power would quite literally grind to a halt if supply was cut off for any length of time.

            See the impact of the oil shock of 1973 for historical confirmation.

            Not all countries have access to fracking technology, and those two commodities are key to global trade – in particular Oil. Note that the major gas producing nations, in particular Qatar are getting involved with the US fracking project to help develop technology and manage exports.

            When they can reduce foreign exports (it is unrealistic to expect them to halt completely) they will continue to trade and have the energy available locally to maintain the high standard of living they currently enjoy.

            Those countries also have reasonable governments and rules of law, the absence of which is the root cause of so called failed states.

            It could perhaps help if you were able to define what you mean by ‘$hit-hole’ with respect to a country :-)

            Like

          • Extremely ancient seafarer says:

            BRUNEI IS NOT AN ARAB COUNTRY!!! It is located on Borneo island in south east Asia.

            0/10 for geography.

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          • Clueless in Gaza says:

            I knew that. Was trying to determine if dealing with anti-arab or anti-muzzie… Hunt still described it as being a $hit-hole though ! :-)

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          • Anonymous says:

            From what I can see some people on both sides are having good life by fanning the flames. If there is peace their life style will be ruined this could be the reason problem still continue.

            Just think if there is peace will any of the 3 leaders in power will be able to be in power after a free and fair election.

            2 live off frighting their own people and the other hangs on to power by sharing S class Mercedes and bundles of cash other governments give him.

            The great man who tried to bring peace was taken out by the nutters from his own side.

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        • 200

          Arab culture guarantees a failed state.

          Add another problem: Arab agriculture guarantees a failed state.

          Look at the satellite pictures of Israel and compare with its surrounding neighbours.

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          • CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

            Arab culture of insh’allah guarantees a lack of proper planning essential to creating the modern crop yields vital to enabling people to do more useful things with their time.

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          • Extremely ancient seafarer says:

            In the 1970s before all this loony development of the area happened, there was a flying training school based at Sharjah (just outside Dubai, for those who don’t know their geography like “Clueless” above) airport which called itself the “Insh’allah School of Flying”

            Not a lot of people know that.

            Like

      • 179

        A masterly summary of the events, each of which are laden with ethical dimensions which would take too long to develop here but, as an example, the British Mandate came about because of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in WW1, not as an act of Imperialism as many would like to paint it. It was expressly intended to administer the peoples there until such time as they are able to stand alone. It was stated by Balfour that the mandate was a self-imposed limitation.

        As Clueless on Gaza states, the Transjordan memorandum, agreed by Churchill, egged on by T E Lawrence, badly undermined Jewish expectations. Iraq and Jordan were created as a carve up between two brothers. King Abdullah later annexed the West Bank. One must remember that the region was still in slow transition from being mostly nomadic to being settled. There were not clearly defined boundaries during the long Ottoman control. Britain actually abstained when the UNGA passed Resolution 181.

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        • 221
          Clueless in Gaza says:

          Thank you for the clarifications @SC: Hopefully I did not give the impression that the 1922 Mandate was in any way Imperial as it was not as you state.

          The Empire aspect I mentioned, but did not properly qualify, alludes to more these events contributing to the undermining of UK soft power projection and credibility of trust in diplomatic and foreign policy affairs, as well as somewhat accelerating that process both during and post WWII.

          The UK was well on the way to converting the ‘Empire’ to a set of independent free states with core liberal economic systems who were to be retained as trading partners: the Commonwealth.

          It is still regrettable that Transjordan amendment crept in: Churchill’s admission of his mistake on this issue singularly speaks volumes of his wisdom and greatness as a leader. The rest is history.

          Like

          • @CiG

            That comment about the wearisome Imperialism criticisms was not in any way directed at you or indeed your comment which was a model commentary IMHO. I apologise for any suggestion that might have made it seem that way and am delighted to clear away any doubt.

            The thing that fascinates me is the vast number of vastly different approaches one can make in analysing this situation. I was also keen to emphasise the ethical aspects over which realpolitik often trumps. Often it cannot be helped but one does need to know why one veers away and somehow record that aspect. FoI actually mitigates against that approach which is an unfortunate irony of life.

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          • Clueless in Gaza says:

            Thank you @SC.

            Agree with you 100% on the odd interpretations out there: Propaganda and now FoI do conspire in a very sinister way to continue obsfucation of fact.

            When the fuller historical perspective is realised it does make one wonder where exactly more recent decisions are going to lead, and in particular how those who made them will be judged.

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          • I have had a break away from my old business for a decade. I left it because I felt that the entire approach was bankrupt.

            So it was essentially an ethical decision based on centuries of other people’s experience that I was fortunate enough not only to learn but to profit by.

            This is not said to make any claim of my personal virtue. I am human and can sin like the best of them! But one needs to know where one is departing from ethical norms and why you are doing it.

            The problem with the current generation in politics, banking, business, civil service, teaching, police (don’t even mention lawyers) is that many of them appear to have never known an ethical environment and thus how close or far away they are treading from that path.

            My period of detachment is drawing to a close, in fact, I am already embarked on several paths to give me some spread. The danger is that one takes over and effectively eliminates the others! But the time to think, discuss and hopefully improve has been marvellous. I wish I had done it years earlier.

            One of the dangers of working flat out full time is the inability to develop one’s own thinking and thus one becomes detached from reality in some way.

            There is still a Philosophy of Libertarianism to be written though! Someone must do it…

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          • I hаvе hаd а brеаk аwаy from my old buѕіnеѕѕ for а dесаdе. I lеft іt bесаuѕе I fеlt thаt thе еntіrе аpproасh wаѕ bаnkrupt.

            So іt wаѕ еѕѕеntіаlly аn еthісаl dесіѕіon bаѕеd on сеnturіеѕ of othеr pеoplе’ѕ еxpеrіеnсе thаt I wаѕ fortunаtе еnough not only to lеаrn but to profіt by.

            Thіѕ іѕ not ѕаіd to mаkе аny сlаіm of my pеrѕonаl vіrtuе. I аm humаn аnd саn ѕіn lіkе thе bеѕt of thеm! But onе nееdѕ to know whеrе onе іѕ dеpаrtіng from еthісаl normѕ аnd why you аrе doіng іt.

            Thе problеm wіth thе сurrеnt gеnеrаtіon іn polіtісѕ, bаnkіng, buѕіnеѕѕ, сіvіl ѕеrvісе, tеасhіng, polісе (don’t еvеn mеntіon lаwyеrѕ) іѕ thаt mаny of thеm аppеаr to hаvе nеvеr known аn еthісаl еnvіronmеnt аnd thuѕ how сloѕе or fаr аwаy thеy аrе trеаdіng from thаt pаth.

            My pеrіod of dеtасhmеnt іѕ drаwіng to а сloѕе, іn fасt, I аm аlrеаdy еmbаrkеd on ѕеvеrаl pаthѕ to gіvе mе ѕomе ѕprеаd. Thе dаngеr іѕ thаt onе tаkеѕ ovеr аnd еffесtіvеly еlіmіnаtеѕ thе othеrѕ! But thе tіmе to thіnk, dіѕсuѕѕ аnd hopеfully іmprovе hаѕ bееn mаrvеllouѕ. I wіѕh I hаd donе іt yеаrѕ еаrlіеr.

            Onе of thе dаngеrѕ of workіng flаt out full tіmе іѕ thе іnаbіlіty to dеvеlop onе’ѕ own thіnkіng аnd thuѕ onе bесomеѕ dеtасhеd from rеаlіty іn ѕomе wаy.

            Thеrе іѕ ѕtіll а Phіloѕophy of Lіbеrtаrіаnіѕm to bе wrіttеn though! Somеonе muѕt do іt…

            Like

        • 359
          Brian Bellend says:

          big dogs knob

          Like

      • 195

        Repost as original disappeared:

        A mаѕtеrly ѕummаry of thе еvеntѕ, еасh of whісh аrе lаdеn wіth еthісаl dіmеnѕіonѕ whісh would tаkе too long to dеvеlop hеrе but, аѕ аn еxаmplе, thе Brіtіѕh Mаndаtе саmе аbout bесаuѕе of thе dеfеаt of thе Ottomаn Empіrе іn WW1, not аѕ аn асt of Impеrіаlіѕm аѕ mаny would lіkе to pаіnt іt. It wаѕ еxprеѕѕly іntеndеd to аdmіnіѕtеr thе pеoplеѕ thеrе untіl ѕuсh tіmе аѕ thеy аrе аblе to ѕtаnd аlonе. It wаѕ ѕtаtеd by Bаlfour thаt thе mаndаtе wаѕ а ѕеlf-іmpoѕеd lіmіtаtіon.

        Aѕ Cluеlеѕѕ on Gаzа ѕtаtеѕ, thе Trаnѕjordаn mеmorаndum, аgrееd by Churсhіll, еggеd on by T E Lаwrеnсе, bаdly undеrmіnеd Jеwіѕh еxpесtаtіonѕ. Irаq аnd Jordаn wеrе сrеаtеd аѕ а саrvе up bеtwееn two brothеrѕ. Kіng Abdullаh lаtеr аnnеxеd thе Wеѕt Bаnk. Onе muѕt rеmеmbеr thаt thе rеgіon wаѕ ѕtіll іn ѕlow trаnѕіtіon from bеіng moѕtly nomаdіс to bеіng ѕеttlеd. Thеrе wеrе not сlеаrly dеfіnеd boundаrіеѕ durіng thе long Ottomаn сontrol. Brіtаіn асtuаlly аbѕtаіnеd whеn thе UNGA pаѕѕеd Rеѕolutіon 181.

        Like

    • 152
      Who the hell do they think they are? says:

      Lib Dem MP David Ward is said to be facing expulsion from the Party. His crime was to accuse Israel of failing to learn the lessons from the persecution of Jews before and during WW2, by persecuting the Palestinians for the last sixty five years. The Chief Executive of the Holocaust Trust said ” These comments are sickening and unacceptable and have no place in British politics”. Jon Benjamin, the head of the Board of Deputies said that he was “outraged”. Well, Mr. Benjamin, I am outraged at your outrage. As for Ms. Pollock, who are you to determine what is and what is not acceptable in British politics? David Ward, a Lib Dem with a bit of backbone. How very unusual.

      Like

      • 253
        Blowing Whistles says:

        They do love to name drop – and then hope that no one comes back at them and says – hey buster just because you have some fancy title it don’t me that your word is gospel. I am bored of deputies with no legal or moral authority whatsoever who give their oar and expect others to roll over. Stick it in your rabbit holes.

        Like

    • 183
      CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

      Philip Fawkes, the 10 times great grandson of Guy Fawkes, has joined UKIP and I couldn’t be more pleased.

      Nigel Farage.

      Like

    • 443

      This first section of the thread is the longest I have ever seen on this blog. It is way longer than the previous longest which was about two years ago when our host took his kids to Disneyland. It is curious how unintended this was. I had been out to dinner on Friday night and had only seen a question defending David Ward, based on some unidentified report by the IDF the following morning when this page normally appears.

      I left a quick message to say I would reply on the new page. I then hastily drafted my response to point out that it is mistaken to view every item of middle east news as being confined to “Israel attacking its totally innocent neighbours” as the leftwing mindset would have it.

      But there was already one of those blasted videos on the page. I thought Good, I can post this in without fanfare and expected maybe one or two responses. Then Guido quite understandably deleted the first video and my comment was unexpectedly in pole position. But…

      There is a niaive side to most of us and this illustrates mine very well. For I had used that fatal word Jеw. No other word in the English language seems to excite people’s sensibilities more. Even paedophile is a poor second.

      Since the Edict of Expulsion of 1290 by King James I, we have never been able to deal with this matter sensibly. Even our greatest playwright could not resist the subject with his stock-Jewish characters such as Shylock. Scholars fight even today over the intentions of the words Hath not a Jеw eyes? The Merchant of Venice 3.1.62-73. There is plenty of evidence to support the contention that the Bard, great as he was, had little or no real life experience of Jеws. But the feelings of anti-Semitism were rife then.

      There are even theories that Shakespeare was himself Jеwish! If it can be thought, someone will say it.

      One less black mark then to Oliver Cromwell…

      Like

    • 445

      Thіѕ fіrѕt ѕесtіon of thе thrеаd іѕ thе longеѕt I hаvе еvеr ѕееn on thіѕ blog. It іѕ wаy longеr thаn thе prеvіouѕ longеѕt whісh wаѕ аbout two yеаrѕ аgo whеn our hoѕt took hіѕ kіdѕ to Dіѕnеylаnd. It іѕ сurіouѕ how unіntеndеd thіѕ wаѕ. I hаd bееn out to dіnnеr on Frіdаy nіght аnd hаd only ѕееn а quеѕtіon dеfеndіng Dаvіd Wаrd, bаѕеd on ѕomе unіdеntіfіеd rеport by thе IDF thе followіng mornіng whеn thіѕ pаgе normаlly аppеаrѕ.

      I lеft а quісk mеѕѕаgе to ѕаy I would rеply on thе nеw pаgе. I thеn hаѕtіly drаftеd my rеѕponѕе to poіnt out thаt іt іѕ mіѕtаkеn to vіеw еvеry іtеm of mіddlе еаѕt nеwѕ аѕ bеіng сonfіnеd to “Iѕrаеl аttасkіng іtѕ totаlly іnnoсеnt nеіghbourѕ” аѕ thе lеftwіng mіndѕеt would hаvе іt.

      But thеrе wаѕ аlrеаdy onе of thoѕе blаѕtеd vіdеoѕ on thе pаgе. I thought Good, I саn poѕt thіѕ іn wіthout fаnfаrе аnd еxpесtеd mаybе onе or two rеѕponѕеѕ. Thеn Guіdo quіtе undеrѕtаndаbly dеlеtеd thе fіrѕt vіdеo аnd my сommеnt wаѕ unеxpесtеdly іn polе poѕіtіon. But…

      Thеrе іѕ а nіаіvе ѕіdе to moѕt of uѕ аnd thіѕ іlluѕtrаtеѕ mіnе vеry wеll. For I hаd uѕеd thаt fаtаl word Jеw. No othеr word іn thе Englіѕh lаnguаgе ѕееmѕ to еxсіtе pеoplе’ѕ ѕеnѕіbіlіtіеѕ morе. Evеn pаеdophіlе іѕ а poor ѕесond.

      Sіnсе thе Edісt of Expulѕіon of 1290 by Kіng Jаmеѕ I, wе hаvе nеvеr bееn аblе to dеаl wіth thіѕ mаttеr ѕеnѕіbly. Evеn our grеаtеѕt plаywrіght сould not rеѕіѕt thе ѕubjесt wіth hіѕ ѕtoсk-Jеwіѕh сhаrасtеrѕ ѕuсh аѕ Shyloсk. Sсholаrѕ fіght еvеn todаy ovеr thе іntеntіonѕ of thе wordѕ Hаth not а Jеw еyеѕ? Thе Mеrсhаnt of Vеnісе 3.1.62-73. Thеrе іѕ plеnty of еvіdеnсе to ѕupport thе сontеntіon thаt thе Bаrd, grеаt аѕ hе wаѕ, hаd lіttlе or no rеаl lіfе еxpеrіеnсе of Jеwѕ. But thе fееlіngѕ of аntі-Sеmіtіѕm wеrе rіfе thеn.

      Thеrе аrе еvеn thеorіеѕ thаt Shаkеѕpеаrе wаѕ hіmѕеlf Jеwіѕh! If іt саn bе thought, ѕomеonе wіll ѕаy іt.

      Onе lеѕѕ blасk mаrk thеn to Olіvеr Cromwеll…

      Like

      • 467
        Clueless in Gaza says:

        I think there is a lot of good material floating around up there (and I do not refer to my own meanderings). Your unintended opener was excellent and to its point flushed out a lot more which was broadly addressed.

        There is more down below by the look of it, courtesy of M!ilne one presumes…

        Like

        • 469

          As your own meanderings appear to be produced off the top, you certainly know your subject well and have an exceptional ability to express very complex situation within a minimal space, even where the posts have to longer than standard here. Ockham’s razor is well wielded in your hands.

          Your thoughts then set off in me another way of examining the problem and in this I learn more, something I endeavour to do every day that I am fortunate enough to live.

          If only the worst of the other’s meanderings were not so pathetic, it would be a joy. Fortunately they are few and I think otherwise we have a good crew here who reflect all shades of opinion.

          Like

    • 462
      Quaesitum ad fontem solos deducere verpos says:

      Just how many sockpuppets does sc have?

      Like

    • 489
      Frederick Gideon Threepwood says:

      Cat; my apologies for the imprecise language and I should, of course, also have specified the Kahan Report into the Sabra and Shatila Massacre. That report (the official report commissioned by the Israeli government), found Ariel Sharon personally responsible for the massacre, and the Israeli forces indirectly responsible by failing to take action to defend civilians when they were aware of the massacre taking place. Under any interpretation of international law these are serious war crimes. You may say that Israel should get credit for investigating its own actions. I will give a little credit but in reality they only did this as a result of the media spotlight and the MacBride findings. You may also say that the massacre was carried out by Christian Phalangists. Of course it was, but the report makes it clear that the Israeli forces had prior knowledge and were active participants in support, such as by illuminating the camp by flares to increase the killing efficiency.

      I understand the siege mentality of Israel and have no writ for their Arab neighbours, including the Palestinians. However, we should hold to a high standard of behaviour those we support politically and by billions in aid. In reality I see little difference between some Israeli politicians (not all) and the Nazi leaders.

      Like

      • 491
        Stan Cauliflower says:

        The Israelis are a CUT above the Nazi leaders!

        Like

      • 495

        Dear Mr Threepwood

        See what you have set off here? 490 comments on what would have otherwise have been a quiet peaceful weekend. :-)

        Wars have been started for less than this… If I find I have a need for an international agitator to start an insurrection (and one never knows these things in advance), then I will call you as you are the man! :-D

        OK joking aside, there is of course a very serious point here. I have not read these reports but will do so. I do remember the incident though.

        It is better that I refrain from commenting on the additional points you have made until I have a chance to update myself except to say that it is a grave incident in a long pattern of preceding events surrounding which there was already huge controversy.

        I do recommend you consider the excellent synopses presented variously elsewhere on this page by Mr Clueless in Gaza which give a solid context in which to place all this stuff.

        There is always the danger of Reductio ad Hitlerum, more popularly known as Godwin’s law, and there is an issue of whether one can validly compare the actions of the entire leadership of a nation state cum empire regime to that of a country’s defence minister, or not.

        But I will look and come back to you but that maybe not today. Thank you for clarifying the report though.

        Like

      • 503

        @FGT

        I set out some background:

        Israel was created as a state on 14 May 1948, before I (and presumably you) was born.

        Their first war with their neighbours began the following day, the Arab-Israeli war. It went on until December and atrocities were committed by both sides with Jewish communities in other countries being wiped out in revenge. The Deir Yassin massacre was committed by the Irgun. The best part of a million Jews living in surrounding Arab countries fled to Israel to escape persecution (This on top of the Nazi extermination atrocities of six million and further statelessness of millions more.)

        The Suez Crisis took place following the nationalisation of the canal by Egypt and lasted 10 days. It arguably marked a low point in Britain’s military and diplomatic fortunes. France never trusted the USA after that. It was the first time I became politically aware and my father used to explain it to me before I went to bed. It made it easy for us to refuse offering the USA assistance in Vietnam which was excellent. Israel came out of it well.

        In June 1967 Egypt precipitated what became known as The Six Day War by lining up its forces in the Sinai. Israel struck first and took control of the Sinai (and thus the Gulf of Aqaba and so the strategic Straits of Tiran) and the West Bank.

        In 1973 the Yom Kippur war was an attack on Israel on their holiest day by Egypt and Syria. Despite being caught on the wrong foot, Israel turned this round in 20 days. It led to the three-fold increase in oil prices which hit the west hard and the Arabs even harder as their investments tumbled. As a result the first talks between the two sides started in the aftermath.

        Four wars: Israelis: 4 – Arabs: 0

        As I grew up, I was aware that Israel was under constant attack but always prevailed. My sympathies were with them as they were underdogs but always did things better.

        TBC…

        Like

      • 504

        @FGT

        I sеt out somе bасkground:

        Isrаеl wаs сrеаtеd аs а stаtе on 14 Mаy 1948, bеforе I (аnd prеsumаbly you) wаs born.

        Thеіr fіrst wаr wіth thеіr nеіghbours bеgаn thе followіng dаy, thе Arаb-Isrаеlі wаr. It wеnt on untіl Dесеmbеr аnd аtroсіtіеs wеrе сommіttеd by both sіdеs wіth Jеwіsh сommunіtіеs іn othеr сountrіеs bеіng wіpеd out іn rеvеngе. Thе Dеіr Yаssіn mаssасrе wаs сommіttеd by thе Irgun. Thе bеst pаrt of а mіllіon Jеws lіvіng іn surroundіng Arаb сountrіеs flеd to Isrаеl to еsсаpе pеrsесutіon (Thіs on top of thе Nаzі еxtеrmіnаtіon аtroсіtіеs of sіx mіllіon аnd furthеr stаtеlеssnеss of mіllіons morе.)

        Thе Suеz Crіsіs took plасе followіng thе nаtіonаlіsаtіon of thе саnаl by Egypt аnd lаstеd 10 dаys. It аrguаbly mаrkеd а low poіnt іn Brіtаіn’s mіlіtаry аnd dіplomаtіс fortunеs. Frаnсе nеvеr trustеd thе USA аftеr thаt. It wаs thе fіrst tіmе I bесаmе polіtісаlly аwаrе аnd my fаthеr usеd to еxplаіn іt to mе bеforе I wеnt to bеd. It mаdе іt еаsy for us to rеfusе offеrіng thе USA аssіstаnсе іn Vіеtnаm whісh wаs еxсеllеnt. Isrаеl саmе out of іt wеll.

        In Junе 1967 Egypt prесіpіtаtеd whаt bесаmе known аs Thе Sіx Dаy Wаr by lіnіng up іts forсеs іn thе Sіnаі. Isrаеl struсk fіrst аnd took сontrol of thе Sіnаі (аnd thus thе Gulf of Aqаbа аnd so thе strаtеgіс Strаіts of Tіrаn) аnd thе Wеst Bаnk.

        In 1973 thе Yom Kіppur wаr wаs аn аttасk on Isrаеl on thеіr holіеst dаy by Egypt аnd Syrіа. Dеspіtе bеіng саught on thе wrong foot, Isrаеl turnеd thіs round іn 20 dаys. It lеd to thе thrее-fold іnсrеаsе іn oіl prісеs whісh hіt thе wеst hаrd аnd thе Arаbs еvеn hаrdеr аs thеіr іnvеstmеnts tumblеd. As а rеsult thе fіrst tаlks bеtwееn thе two sіdеs stаrtеd іn thе аftеrmаth.

        Four wаrs: Isrаеlіs: 4 – Arаbs: 0

        As I grеw up, I wаs аwаrе thаt Isrаеl wаs undеr сonstаnt аttасk but аlwаys prеvаіlеd. My sympаthіеs wеrе wіth thеm аs thеy wеrе undеrdogs but аlwаys dіd thіngs bеttеr.

        TBC…

        Like

      • 505

        @FGT

        I accept what you have set out is true and was said in good faith. There is a sense in which all wrong is considered as wrong. You kill one person or six million, both are wrong. A moral equivalence is somehow set up but that is false IMHO.

        If you kill someone who is trying to kill your mother, then most moral systems will consider you as being justified (except perhaps the UK in recent years.)

        So I am going to be dispassionate and philosophical in approach here which will leave some to criticise me as being callous or inhuman. If they are right then so be it.

        Let us clear up some minor points first:

        You stated:
        …we should hold to a high standard of behaviour those we support politically and by billions in aid.

        This is true as a statement of ought but part mistaken as one of is. We give the Israelis no foreign aid and have not done so for a long time.

        The last time the UK gave any aid was in 1998/99 where the sum was £10,000 under the heading Grants and other Aid in Kind (which include all other TC expenditure e.g. grants to NGO’s and the British Council, British Partnership Scheme, equipment and supplies.) This followed a 12 year period of broadly similar amounts and in overall budgetary terms can be regarded as de minimis.

        The above information is set out as the result of an FoI request asking for all amounts paid since 1948 which may be found here:

        http://bit.ly/121Nq60

        Almost all US aid to Israel is now in the form of military assistance, while in the past it also received significant economic assistance.

        That still leaves …we should hold to a high standard of behaviour those we support politically, so I am not trying to wriggle out. However, our standards are frankly not always that good so it becomes a matter of judgement whether we should expect higher of others than we deliver ourselves.

        TBC …

        Like

        • 507
          Blowing Whistles says:

          Do you know for a fact that those who ‘you’ support and hold to a high standard of behaviour politically – have not in fact DUPED you / manipulated you and your belief system – for most if not all of your life?

          Like

      • 510

        @FGT

        The evidence to which you refer:

        Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs
        Israel’s Foreign Relations since 1947
        Selected Documents 1982-1984

        It can be found here and is a very long read:

        http://bit.ly/sHeMzd

        104 Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the events at the refugee camps in Beirut- 8 February 1983
        8 Feb 1983

        Volume 8: 1982-1984

        The Commission determined that the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla was carried out by a Phalangist unit, acting on its own but its entry was known to Israel. No Israeli was directly responsible for the events which occurred in the camps. But the Commission asserted that Israel had indirect responsibility for the massacre since the I.D.F. held the area, Mr. Begin was found responsible for not exercising greater involvement and awareness in the matter of introducing the Phalangists into the camps. Mr. Sharon was found responsible for ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge when he approved the entry of the Phalangists into the camps as well as not taking appropriate measures to prevent bloodshed. Mr. Shamir erred by not taking action after being alerted by communications Minister Zippori. Chief of Staff Eitan did not give the appropriate orders to prevent the massacre…

        104. Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the events at the refugee camps in Beirut, 8 February 1983.

        From the Recommendations:

        The Minister of Defense, Mr. Ariel Sharon
        We have found, as has been detailed in this report, that the Minister of Defense bears personal responsibility.

        In the Closing Remarks, the report states:

        We do not deceive ourselves that the results of this inquiry will convince or satisfy those who have prejudices or selective consciences, but this inquiry was not intended for such people. We have striven and have spared no effort to arrive at the truth, and we hope that all persons of good will who will examine the issue without prejudice will be convinced that the inquiry was conducted without any bias.

        TBC… (I hope to complete in the next post.)

        Like

      • 512

        @FGT

        OK. Now at last my personal opinion:

        You stated:

        In reality I see little difference between some Israeli politicians (not all) and the Nazi leaders.

        I do note your very fair (not all) but it is not enough to save the argument as you framed it, IMHO.

        The Nazi regime directly ordered and executed the elimination of millions of people. They cannot fall back on someone else and, as you will recognise, the Nuremberg Trials did not accept I was just following orders as an excuse.

        In Sharon’s case, he was acting on behalf of the State but was not the entire State, as was the case with the Third Reich.

        So I do not recognise the equivalence between this awful massacre and the Nazi regime that your original point to me entailed.

        It is not a pleasant calculus to make on this and I understand if others get heated as a result of it. But I have tried to express my opinions, first as a child, then with greater maturity, as my consciousness developed.

        Please recognise that I do realise you have a point. I simply cannot accept it the way that you stated it. I have never, on a blog, created an answer this long and I fear I may be tempting our host’s indulgence.

        But you raised a question of such vital importance, at such a sensitive time, that I felt I could not answer it other than with this degree of attention. I am so glad you raised it though and am convinced of your sincerity in your search for the truth.

        Ends..

        Like

  2. 2
    Vote UKIP says:

    If the EU and the single market is been so good why is every country in the EU struggling and failing while other countries are doing much better?

    Like

    • 4
      FU EU says:

      I think you are confusing who it is good for.

      Like

    • 10
      Anonymous says:

      George Osborne was accused of living the high life while the economy plunged into the red yesterday – flying back from the World Economic Forum in business class.

      A banker on the same plane revealed that the Chancellor sat at the front of the aircraft while even City financiers were saving money in economy class.

      The unnamed banker said: ‘The plane was full of people who had been to Davos. We found it a bit rich that the Chancellor should be sitting in business class on the day that the British economy is effectively heading for a triple dip recession.’

      Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268193/George-Osborne-flies-business-class-pizza-fondue-PM.html#ixzz2J4MuinyB
      Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

      Like

      • 13
        Extremely ancient seafarer says:

        But presumably on this mode of transport he was carrying the right kind of ticket fir this trip?

        Besides which I think there is a line in the rule book that says a traveller may pay the fare difference from his own pocket should he choose to upgrade.

        Like

        • 20
          Anonymous says:

          If Osborne can afford to pay these kind of money plus £6,000 plus holidays, is he being paid too much salary or expense?

          Like

          • Pawn Sandwich says:

            You should ask Gordon Brown, he obtained a first class seat from the far east and it was later revealed that a pregnant woman was bumped out of it. He should know.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Pawn Sandwich, was the woman planning on visiting NHS?

            Like

      • 56
        genghiz the kahn says:

        Just think of all the opportunities for coverage about insider dealing had Osborne sat with the bankers.

        Like

      • 95
        Sir William says:

        Just imagine, you’ve paid an arm and a leg for a first-class ticket and you find yourself next to Gideon. I’d rather go cattle class.

        Like

      • 148
        Food Watch says:

        I hope he swilled that down with a nice glass of coke :-)

        Fondue + Pizza ? Well, that confirms he has zero clue / class.

        Note to George: Next time do either Fondue (but only with someone you are intending to sleep with, and under no circumstances Boris…), and if you want to show some class in Switzerland, do the Raclette next time.

        Like

    • 14
      albacore says:

      But. But. Our Prime Minister’s sold on it
      You can’t be calling The Leader a tit!
      Especially as he’s promised a vote
      Only not like last time, that came to nowt

      Like

      • 18
        Anonymous says:

        Which promise on vote? Now even Clegg is happy to give an in / out vote if he forms a government with Cameron. So I cannot understand why they cannot give a vote before 2015?

        Our PM is also saying he is cutting UK national debt. When it comes to numbers or EU he seems very confused.

        Like

        • 22
          Humpty Dumpty Cameron says:

          When I use the word ‘cutting’ it means exactly what I choose it to mean.

          Like

        • 29
          albacore says:

          Erm. You never get nowhere when you’re hasty?
          And the E U gravy train’s just too tasty
          For the LibLabCon gang to relax its grip
          And be party-pooped by that mardy UKIP

          Like

        • 67
          Vote UKIP says:

          What Cameron means is that the coalition are cutting debt and budget deficit COMPARED to what that level of debt/deficit would have been under a Labour government. It is indeed disingenuous. Why politicians can not be more honest is surprising because they always get caught out and made to look as untrustworthy as they are.

          The same thing applies to public spending. We all know the state is spending more under this government than the last equally profligate one, so if Cameron,etc would admit this he might be more trusted than he is. The markets are not so stupid they do not what is going on but the general public are kept ignorant by the Liblabcon politicians and the MSM of the real situation.

          Like

    • 92
      Alan Rusbridger, pianist extraordinaire says:

      Today, I will be sampling Beethoven’s Last Movement.

      Like

  3. 3
    Vote UKIP says:

    Isn’t a single market just another name for a cartel?

    So private company cartels bad, state cartels good? Why?

    Like

    • 9

      Answer to q1: No!

      It is a question of the type: Why is there only one Monopolies Commission?

      So q2 falls away.

      *Not defending the EU but the need to make better arguments*

      Like

      • 23
        order-order marketing intern says:

        Is the cartel before the arse?

        Like

        • 26

          Market is its own plural if you think about it for a few seconds. Sure we use the term markets but it is no different to the singular.

          The issue is whether the market is free or not. You may have to consult Viz.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Keep believing that, and keep smiling.

            The rest of us know that a single market means one controlled by a single set of rules. Rules are made by a single body and so are advantages to those that support that body.

            Why is there only one Monopolies Commission, one Information Commissioner, one regulator for every sector, dedicated ombudsmen to single issues?

            Because they are all set up as road blocks to stop all accountability. It is impossible to get past their blanking tactics to get anything changed. It is the same with Trusts and trustees. The trustees should be there to monitor the operations and safe guard the people for which the entity is held in trust. Yet they actually do more to protect the entities corruption.

            In one case a government agency admitted that they would change their operation to abide by the law, and have never repeated the failure, yet the Information Commissioner still states it was a lawful act. Most Ombudsmen are designed to take longer to process a case than the law allows for any delay in action. They are simply road blocks. If you challenge their integrity then they close ranks and you become fair game to be libelled.

            These monopolistic barriers to justice are there only to protect the institutions and create the single market. This whole country has become a cartel.

            It is universal for all the UK quangos. As one that tries to protect the innocent I have failed universally to the ultimate cost to some.

            Like

          • Free.

            It’s a difficult concept for some to get their brains round, I know.

            The unsuccessful use it in the same way that some people say very unique.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Free what? No market is free in money terms? In this country no market is free to all? People are not free to set up an alternate market?

            Certain basic trading entities essential in certain markets in this country even have criminal law making powers? There is no democratic oversight of these powers?

            So how is “free” related the your example of “very unique”. Just throwing out overloaded words like “free” with no explanation is the opposite of those that doubly emphasise their meaning with extra words.

            Like

          • Blowing Whistles says:

            Plenty of flannel and flim flam in the above comments.

            Like

          • No market is free in money terms is hardly a sensible contribution.

            Free in terms that classical liberalism of the British tradition, such as advocated by Hayek, is what most here would recognise.

            Like

      • 139
        EU Watch says:

        The Competition Commission (monopolies commission) only works to prevent cartel action if it enforces the laws: In particular anti-trust laws.

        One glaring issue both sides of the Atlantic at the moment is the failure for anti-trust action to have been taken against commercial banks who were clearly involved in interest rate rigging. That was a very good demonstration of why Cartels are bad.

        The ECB has been quite public about is it’s role in ‘maintaining price stability’. Now, in terms of fulfilling a central bank type role this is an obvious responsibility to be acheived by setting interest rates accordingly and managing the money supply: The essence of monetary policy.

        That the ECB, a non sovereign entity, is and has been trying to do this is completely perverse and could be regarded as an illegal intervention in the market place by a ‘stateless’ entity seeking to manipulate prices. That would constitute a cartel action of sorts if it is acting on behalf of others.

        NB: I allude here to distinction of Sovereign privilege which distinguishes central bank implementation of monetary policy from commercial bank manipulation which would constitute Cartel action / price fixing / fraud.

        Saying that:

        The single market, assuming prices are being set in a free and fair manner without state intervention, is fine.

        If this market place is being interfered with by non-sovereign political / monetary psuedo-authorities, manipulating interest rates and imposing trade tariffs, quotas and duties on the sovereign members of that market, then it is not a free market place and one could consider it a cartel of sorts. Somewhat similar to the ‘market’ which would have existed in the USSR.

        Recent implementation of financial services transaction tax is the latest example of the free market being destroyed in Europe.

        However, there was never a ‘free’ market created, only a ‘common’ market.

        Like

    • 75
      CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

      It depends, the “single market”* is an oxymoron as markets are between people.

      It’s a customs cartel now, with a regulatory system that favours rent-seeking business to hamper competition.

      We are better off leaving on any terms. It will only get worse for those who stay. To use a ZeroHedge term, “those who panic early panic best”.

      *Except if you called the world a single market.

      Like

  4. 7
    Gordon Brown says:

    Shat the bed again, naughty Gordon, nayghty brrr brrr gibber gibber wank wank

    Like

  5. 8
    Owen Jones says:

    I was shitfaced at the company party, and the next day my boyfriendsaid, “You really know how to use that penis of yours.” I looked him in the eyes and asked, “Want me to use it again?” “Only if my other boyfriend gets to watch,” he said. “He loved the story of you wetting your pants.”

    Like

    • 98
      Sir William says:

      Much as I would like to satirise Owen Jones, this is just homophobic scat. Sorry to sound pompous, but itbis.

      Like

  6. 11
    GEORGE GIDDY ONE OSBORNE says:

    Eour Pizza’s £40 each (taxpayer)
    Four chocolate puddings £8 each (tax payer)
    wine and a good chinwag with old Chums Priceless !

    For everything else use Mastercard

    Like

  7. 12
    Anonymous says:

    Lots of info about Ward & next to nothing about the Hu*ne trial.
    Diversionary tactics??

    Like

  8. 15
    Peter Stringvestfellow says:

    I’m coming for you Clegg. How dare you suggest I should loose my pension because of my wealth. Are you giving up your EU pension you c.unt?

    Like

    • 39
      BULLINGDON PIZZA CLUB says:

      Not forgetting that £2,000,000 payed to him by the EU for errrrrm “Constituency office expenses”
      Absolutely nothing to do with his time spent sucking the EU Cock !

      Like

    • 69
      Tony Blair (message to plebs) says:

      You can’t make money out of politics. Look at me struggling to make ends meet.

      Like

    • 181
      Handycock (Teen Fondler) says:

      I certainly won’t be giving up any of my 4 public sector pensions nor will my wife give up her two. I will also not give up my allowances when I am elevated to the Lords, final. With regards to all this controversy about Jews and a certain LibDem MP, the many Islamic constituents I have brought in to the city, don’t like it, nor do I, as there are vote losses in it. Boaz.

      Like

  9. 21
    John Prescott says:

    I’ve got a pack of Seven-Ups and there’s no way I’m sharing with any of you fucking suthern jessies so there!

    Like

  10. 31
    T'Old Fella says:

    Who on earth is Stan Collymore, is he some sort of world leader, an intellectual with at the cutting edge of science or some self opiniated commentator

    Like

  11. 33
    Ah! Monika 2013 +1 says:

    Mus lim abuser who ‘didn’t know’ that sex with a girl of 13 was illegal is spared jail.

    Ignorance of the law….is this to be the ‘Huhne Defense ‘

    Like

    • 50
      Fiat justitia ruat caelum says:

      The Courts have obviously decided that the legal maxim……”Ignorantia Juris Non Excusat” is now not applicable to certain sections of the community.

      Like

    • 55
      Ah! Monika 2013 +1 says:

      In all fairness…………..

      “He had been taught that women were as worthless as a lollipop dropped on the ground “

      Like

      • 79
        Mozzies in PC Dave's Paradise Island says:

        We didn’t know mutilating girls isn’t allowed in the U.K.either, your Honour.

        That’s all right, if your sky fairy said it was O.K.

        Like

      • 160
        Stan Cauliflower says:

        Perfectly OK if you pick ‘em up and lick ‘em!

        Like

    • 81
      I MARRIED MY DONKEY says:

      If she was a muslim he would have been married to her for 5 years by that age

      Like

    • 87
      Sir James Savvyle's Ghost says:

      Now then. Now then. Nobody ever told me it was illegal either. Stop persecuting me and the Beebers.

      Like

      • 111
        GAYVID CAMERA ON says:

        I SAY not him as well what , with the young girls
        well well well , no wonder they call him “Just In ” Beebers

        Like

    • 137
      CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

      Now he knows…

      Throw away the key.

      Like

      • 146
        JIMMY SO VILE says:

        No now next time he can say “It cant be against the law otherwise you would have jailed me last time ”

        Oh ok maybe it is the courts fault as it wasn’t explained to you clearly last time and we should make sure next time it is
        OK , case dismissed

        Like

    • 407
      Casual Observer says:

      There is no real defense here unless one of the witnesses becomes hostile.

      This is so stupid as well: A malum prohibitum offense has been promoted to malum in se by perversion, and now all should go down, unless justice is not served.

      There could be a case for ‘lawful rebellion’ and arrest of the judge, unless the evidence can conclusively clear those accused.

      This is so Bonfire of the Vanities…

      Like

  12. 42
    Owen Jones says:

    The new bloke in the office has invited me over to his place tonight for some ‘man fun’.

    Awesome. I hope he’s got table football.

    Like

  13. 45
    True Briton says:

    Why, on this blog, is criticism of J*ws or Isr*+l so moderated?
    Is it because Ha88y C+le i really Ha88y Cohen?

    Like

  14. 47
    True Briton says:

    The state of Israel is built on land stolen fron the Arabs. Why should they not be angry?

    Like

    • 52
      Expat Geordie says:

      Yes but a lot of the land prior to 1948 was sold to the Jéws/Isráélís by the Arabs in perfectly legal deals. In many cases the land was worthless and the Arabs were all too keen to sell.

      Like

      • 175
        Blowing Whistles says:

        ExGe – you assert ‘perfectly legal deals’ – somehow I suspect you really do not understand what legal actually means. And your assumption of perfectly is erroronous – have you seen any of these contracts are you qualified to say as much – I doubt it?

        Like

        • 382
          Conrad says:

          Have you seen any yourself or do you always go by whatever anybody tells you that just happens to conform to your own prejudices?

          Like

          • Blowing Whistles says:

            Fuck off – you professional troll – I asked a quite reasonable question. he started the ball rolling attempting to move / leapfrog the issue to a settled one about the contracts.

            Don’t come onto this site with your pitiful little retorts and backbiting – you’re obviously a new troll who knows diddly squat – fuck off.

            Like

      • 177
        Arab says:

        Of course we were, we just move the tents and camels to another place and ask for money again.

        Like

      • 187
        The Balfour Declaration says:

        I blame TE Lawrence for leading the Arabs against the Ottoman Empire)and winning)…..from Ireland to Palestine you’ll always find the British mixed up in it somewhere along the line

        Like

    • 60
      Define Arab says:

      There is a consensus that the Semitic peoples originated from Arabian peninsula.

      Like

    • 71
      CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

      A lot of those in Gaza were booted out of Jordan for being shits.

      Like

    • 73
      Vote UKIP says:

      The state of the UK is built on land stolen from Anglo-Saxons by Normans and on land stolen Celts by Angles. Saxons. Vikings,etc. You don’t hear them kicking up a big fuss. Besides which who did the Palestinians steal their land from? The Turks, who stole it from… oh who cares?

      Like

      • 188
        Hengist and Horsa Security Services: Your Kingdom is safe in OUR hands says:

        Just sign here will you Vortigern me old mate. What ? Naw don’t worry about the small print about signing over your kingdom. It’s just the lawyers. You know how they are.

        Like

        • 307
          People painted blue are nothing but trouble says:

          I blame the Caledonians. If they’d stayed north of Hadrian’s wall, then nice Mr Vortigern wouldn’t have had to hire extra muscle in the form of Hengist and Horsa Security Services.

          Like

    • 103
      Sir William says:

      The State of Israel was created by the United Nations.

      Like

  15. 51
    Universal Hiss says:

    Gosh grown-up stuff (well nearly)this morning & not a picture in sight.

    How lovely. Did you take the crayons away Guido?

    Like

    • 90
      Tachybaptus says:

      Toxic Taffy will be along later, as usual. Guido can remove all the vomit in one go, but is usually in bed by the time TT starts spewing.

      Like

      • 142
        Troll Watch says:

        The Guido m0ds thankfully deleted all that stuff off from yesterday.

        Some parts of the threads now read strange, but all the good points which were made remain. :-D

        Like

    • 105

      It is very highbrow this morning.

      Someone will post the Nuremberg torchlight vid and someone else the one of the attack on those Turkish ships before long.

      If not i’ve a good clip of a teen falling on his nuts during a skateboarding stunt along a railing.

      Like

  16. 84
    GAYVID CAMERA ON says:

    I say George Don’t order extra Jalapeno’s on your pizza , you know it gives me a rash on my bell end

    Like

  17. 99
    This aint gonna end well says:

    Can’t get rid of 1 ill eagle less alone the other couple of million….

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268353/Immigrant-gang-lured-schoolgirls-house-sex-deported-member-persecuted-tribe.html

    Like

  18. 110
    You couldn't make it up ? says:

    THE life story of sports presenter Clare Balding is to be turned into a TV drama.

    Like

    • 114
      The BBC are cunts says:

      We’re hoping to increase the Licence Fee on the back of this fabulous programme.

      Like

      • 126
        GAYVID CAMERA ON says:

        Now Then Now Then Now Then !
        Just look what happened last time the BBC made a programme about a presenter

        just how i liked my kid’s” Young and Balding”

        Like

    • 127
      Mills Band says:

      Hideously white. We’re brassed off with her.

      Like

    • 161
      Dutchman says:

      My finger’s getting sore already.

      Like

    • 180
      Lecher says:

      Are there any lesbian scenes?

      Like

    • 214
      (I don't need no doctor) says:

      Nice enough person, but doesn’t this show how dumbed down the BBC has become?

      Like

    • 224
      BBC taking the piss out of the license fee payer says:

      No horses will be involved during the making of this drama.

      Like

    • 243
      Stan Cauliflower says:

      Working title:- “How I learned to love fishy fingers”?

      Like

    • 254
      The BBC causes serious mental illness says:

      At least there is a very low probability that any children will be harmed in the making of this program. Those that watch it though may become profoundly retarded.

      Serious point: Why make a TV program, when all they really need is a decent f@cebook page. Much cheaper, and likely more informative.

      Like

  19. 134
    Silent Bob says:
    • 143
      Good to see that you remain as dogmatic as ever says:
    • 145
      The Far Right says:

      Bob, you may need to speak up just a little bit so that other can hear you, but your suggestion: Yes, and it should be done sooner rather than later.

      Like

    • 164
      Rat's arse says:

      Hi SB. Straight to the point as usual. I don’t know why others can’t understand your sage words!

      Like

    • 185
      Blowing Whistles says:

      Hi SB – you know – your silence reminds me of the legions of politicos and hacks who never dare mention those ‘still unaudited accounts’ out of the EU / Brussels … which of course is the Elephant in the room that none dare speak of.

      Like

      • 256
        Not Blowing Whistles says:

        That isn’t an elephant, it is just outright fraud. :-)

        Like

        • 260
          Blowing Whistles says:

          And the front man at the head of the disu.nited states – don’t seem to have twigged it either Or

          is it an inconvenient truth?

          Like

        • 513
          Archie says:

          Don’t say that! Those “gentlemen” in Italy with a penchant for horses’ heads in beds will never forgive you. Want to know why the accounts haven’t been audited?

          Like

  20. 138
    BBC offering £5000 for Tranny comedy ideas says:

    We are looking for original comedy sitcoms, comedy dramas or sketch shows featuring transgender characters and/or themes and written for television. An award of up to a maximum of £5000 will be shared between the selected writer(s) in order that they may develop a pilot or taster.

    Like

  21. 149
    Owen Jones says:

    “This cannot stand” says Mark Carney as the head of the OECD suggests that Britain is conducting a devaluation and should get advice from Guido Fawkes.

    Like

    • 166
      Geoffrey Archer says:

      But is he Art ?

      Like

      • 329
        Carny Watch says:

        No. He is a fraud.

        Canada economy only Ok as it is heavily commodity based and was supported by the US past few years as they were primary oil supplier.

        Canada itself has a overheated housing market, has got involved in international terrorism and economy is soon to go down.

        Send this fraud back before he screws this place up any further.

        Like

  22. 151
  23. 176
    Owen Jones says:

    The bad news just keeps coming.

    The economy is teetering on the brink of a triple-dip recession, something that will deal a major blow to the Chancellor’s deficit reduction efforts.

    In fact, just the other day ONS statistics revealed the economy shrank by 0.3% at the end of 2012.

    Earlier in the week, the IMF slashed next year’s growth forecasts yet further, to a measly 1.9%.

    And to compound the misery, many experts now expect the UK to be shorn of its coveted triple A rating any day now.

    So what happens next?

    Well, here at Owen Jones Towers we believe all this is just the beginning of a much bigger, much more dangerous crisis, one that will shake the very foundations of the UK financial system.

    Because the fact is, the economy is deteriorating by the day…

    Meanwhile, our debts are going up… public spending is going up… and our interest payments are going up.

    And as anyone with a decent grasp of economic history will tell you, this can only end one way: Financial collapse.

    That’s why it’s vital you see the full scale of the problems facing Britain right now… and understand how to defend yourself when the inevitable disaster hits.

    Like

    • 191
      Mr Sensible says:

      But why is a never ending expanding GDP considered by politicians as a good thing?

      There’s nowt wrong with cutting your coat according to your cloth.

      Like

    • 192
      rebekah aka nellnewman says:

      ‘public spending going up’

      How much faster would it have increased under militwit and balls?

      As for our economy collapsing – gordon made sure it had already done that before he left office.

      The big question now is can the damage be repaired?

      Like

      • 204
        albacore says:

        How much faster Labour would have increased the debt
        Is irrelevant and any silly sod’s bet
        The fact is the Tory wing of the LibLabCon
        Is no more worthy of being relied upon

        Like

    • 196
      Fuck the LibLabCon says:

      Unfortunately it needs to happen.

      Like

    • 198
      Vote UKIP says:

      “In fact, just the other day ONS statistics revealed the economy shrank by 0.3% at the end of 2012″.

      Indeed it did but then again the previous quarter saw a rise of 0.9%. Put the two together and you get a rise of 0.6% for the half year. This does not sound disastrous to me.

      A lower pound should help exporters. No wonder the FTSE is soaring. We should stop listening to the doom-mongers at the influential BBC who have their own agenda, which amongst other things is to secure another shabby Labour government which will wreck the economy yet again.

      Like

      • 199
        Vote UKIP says:

        Our economy is stupidly reliant on the failing Eurozone economies as a direct result of our EU membership. And anyone who thinks that is not damaging UK growth needs looking at by a qualified psychiatrist.

        Like

        • 252
          long John Silver's parrot says:

          Just because you have joined up to the EU club doesn’t mean you cannot do business with the rest of the world .

          If you cannot make money out of EU membership this does not explain your failures elsewhere .

          Perhaps people should look hard at themselves before seeking lame excuses for their failures.

          Like

        • 259
          Britain the ruined country says:

          The latest ripoff from the EU is to give every person in the eurozone a job when they have been unemployed for four months. They want an extra 150 billion euros (the equivalent in £) to finance this.

          This is one reason why France, Germany etc., are so angry with Dave, if we (hopefully when) leave the EU we will take the money tree with us.

          These proposed jobs have no element of actual work in them it’s just another con by the arch EU conners.

          Like

      • 201
        Enriching the Grassroots 2015 says:

        Like

    • 207
      Owned Jones says:

      Your cutting & pasting skills are admirable.

      Like

    • 218
      (I don't need no doctor) says:

      There is so much criticism about Osbourne from the lefties that comment on this site, but do any of them offer any alternative policies. No!

      Like

      • 223
        Hottentot says:

        Osborne is a total disaster.

        Many posts speak of him being sacked, the trouble is, Osborne is Cameron, school boy, and believes the same mantra as his chum, so he won’t sack Osborne.

        The coalition has not got a clue; Cameron, Osborne & Co are so far out of their depth it’s like watching a horror show. Instead of changing course, they carry on full speed ahead, like the Titanic, – they will sink this country.

        As for Clegg, he and the LD’s continue to believe their ideological views ‘that they are making a difference and stopping crazy, unethical decisions’… this defies rational thought, let alone evidence based facts. The LD’s are tarred with the same brush, they, like the Tories are a disgrace to humanity, let alone decency towards, and for 95%, of the electorate.

        Like

        • 225
          Anonymous says:

          We (anyone with even a modest knowledge of economics, supply and demand and the money supply) knew that rapid contraction of the public purse would result in a depression. It was the same in the 1930s.

          I’m way past the ‘what’ and the ‘how’ and even now long past the ‘why’.

          I long ago came to the conclusion that the complete and utter lack of any meaningful programme or a task force for growth was so obvious and so deliberate could only come from pre-election agreement by senior figures in the Tory party to not only suppress growth but create a period of financial hardship for ‘the public’ (anyone but them in fact).

          We are seeing a sustained and callous programme to push ‘the masses’ through social engineering to destroy the essential services that are part of the social contract between people and state. It is nothing short of organised sabotage, not only of the NHS, education and social services, but also the last vestiges of a mixed economy and the ability of the UK to ‘auto-repair’ itself in tough economic times.

          It is not purely motivated by dogma but also greed. The people we are talking about will not personally suffer: They have taken the necessary steps to protect they capital whilst incomes suffer for those below them.

          This hateful class-based and selfish project is running to plan.

          Osborne will not be sacked anytime soon: Not whilst he still carries out ‘the plan’. He might be jettisoned much nearer the election, but by that time the job will have been done. Scorched Earth policies are a ‘one way trip’.

          Like

        • 228
          (I don't need no doctor) says:

          You are a thick socialist. Read your post again, and please realise that you must do better.

          Like

        • 230
          History is written by the victors says:

          But what would you suggest?

          Like

          • (I don't need no doctor) says:

            I would suggest that the media stop the bull shit. Austerity at the moment means that people cannot afford their 3000 pound holiday, it’s only 2500 pounds this year. As for the poor, they still can afford tattoos, piercings etc.
            It’s all hype and bollocks.

            I would suggest that people realise the something for nothing days of labour are over.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            The proponents of austerity say reduce costs. The easiest way to do this is to fire employees. Yes, that’s people, unfortunately. Particularly those in the public sector run by the government. The current government has fired 200,000 employees.

            The average wage of a public sector worker is £28,800. Multiply this by 200,000 and you have the money saved by the government – £5.76 billion. An excellent saving! Or is it?
            Each of those employees paid to the government a total of £9,200 in tax and health insurance contributions. Quite a lot. So there the government has a loss of £1.84 billion.
            Now. The government has to pay benefits to these fired employees. On average, this will be £17,004 per person. (This doesn’t include all the benefits available – just the essentials. You can check it on the internet.) Multiply £17,004 by 200,000 and you get a total of £3.4 billion.
            So the government has saved in salaries £5.76 billion, but lost in tax etc. £1.84 billion and paid out in benefits £3.4 billion.
            Savings – £5.76 billion
            Less 5.24 billion.
            That’s a net saving to the government of £0.5 billion. The price of a lot of hardship for 200,000 people and their kids.
            But! That’s not the end of the equation!
            Before they were fired, these people had money to spend – to put back into the economy. To spend in the High Street, to buy products made by our factories, to pay for services and holidays.
            Once they had £28,800 – now they have £17,000. So now they will be spending less to the tune of £11,800 each. That’s the equivalent of £2.36 billion lost to the economy.
            The net result of firing 200,000 people in the name of reducing costs? A loss to the economy of no less than £1.86 billion. Something stupid there…..

            Like

          • FU EU says:

            Your so right Doc, but I fear the relentless talking down of the economy, the crap about cuts (they was on about basketball getting cuts last night!) and general doom mongering is not just holding out but gaining credence in peoples minds.

            Cameron really needs to do something about the socialists in the broadcast media.

            Like

          • History is written by the victors says:

            To say ‘thick as fuck’ would be a compliment.

            Like

          • Economist says:

            The IMF has already admitted that it was wrong to advise austerity.

            They messed up the so called ‘fiscal multiplier’, which is the ratio of the change in national income to change in government spending. This has been systematically underestimated for most countries:

            http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2012/10/09/1199151/its-austerity-multiplier-failure/

            What has been missing so far is a decent investment in some infrastructure ~ as per Keynes. One suspects the reason for this has been QE. It would not have been credible for the government to manage its sovereign debt obligations on the scale it has and do that.

            The big problem facing all is that a fresh business cycle should have started by now: This for some reason has not. This is likely due to the ongoing problems with domestic commercial bank lending. That is the problem which needs to be resolved: As many of the commercial banks are currently part run by the government there is a serious political question here.

            @FU EU: To your point on the media, allow Dr. Goebbels to illuminate:

            ‘If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.’

            Like

          • not a machine says:

            Anon 5:52 Your analysis I think is wrong as you have only used savings and not costs or rolling cost of keeping them in place and what that makes to broader taxation requirement .

            Like

          • show me the money! says:

            “Each of those employees paid to the government a total of £9,200 in tax and health insurance contributions. Quite a lot. So there the government has a loss of £1.84 billion.”

            These pen pushers and ‘service providers’ were paid out of tax payers money, ie the ones who were creating the real wealth. Why not cut out the middle man and just keep the money to promote real jobs?

            Like

          • Skint EO says:

            … and surely, if they paid 9200 in tax etc then they did not have 28000 to spend in the first place.

            Plus, the vast majority of civil/public servants get paid nothing like 28000 a year.

            Like

  24. 206
    Calamity Clegg says:

    LibDem Councils: fatally incompetent, appalling profligate and hopelessly not fit for purpose…

    Like

  25. 237
    Owen Jones says:

    Paddy, Niall and Liam are riding home from the pub on Paddy’s motorbike when they’re stopped by a traffic cop.

    “This motorcycle is only licenced to carry two people,” says the cop. “There’s three of you, so someone’ll have to get off and walk.”

    “Three of us?” says Paddy, turning to Liam. “What the feck happened to Mick and Rory?”

    Like

  26. 250
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    There is no short cut to growing proper jobs in the private sector that create real wealth. It doesn’t happen in a couple of years . And that is the only way we will climb out of this mess that labour left us.

    gordon and bullyballs and militwit thought they could create loads of state non-jobs using taxes from a decreasing private sector and left us £billions in debt. keynesian economics gone loopy! And despite their economic disaster they are STILL saying that they should be given another chance by the electorate to try and do the same thing all over again!

    Like

    • 257
      Gooey Blob says:

      They won’t get that chance in 2015. A 5-point ICM lead mid-term in an austerity government should lead anyone who has followed UK politics for any significant length of time to conclude that Labour are going to get a drubbing in 2015.

      Doubly so when you look at their leader.

      Like

      • 274
        rebekah aka nellnewman says:

        not just militwit the leader but coupled to gordon’s old pal bullyballs as chancellor . The thought of them in no10 and no11 is worse than a horror story!!

        Like

    • 343
      CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

      >There is no short cut to growing proper jobs in the private sector that create real wealth.

      There is! cut non-jobs in the extortion funded sector that destroy real wealth.

      Like

  27. 258
    Owen Jones says:

    I like boys who smell good.

    Like

  28. 265
    Operation Crossbow says:

    So let’s get this right. People in Lewisham are up in arms because their local hospital might be closed because neighbouring hospitals are losing a million pounds a WEEK.

    So why are they losing that much money? Well because they were built using PFI of course. Now just who was it who put the NHS into so much debt with PFI then British media?

    Why didn’t the one eyed bell end borrow the money? Because using PFI it allowed him to move billions of pounds of potential debt off book. Yet still the proles are blaming this Government when it was their beloved McFuckingwanker who created the whole mess.

    Like

  29. 270
    Blowing Whistles says:

    Oh dear the sun has gone down – perhaps the toxic one has risen from his crypt!!!!!!!!!!

    Like

  30. 277
    BBC taking the piss out of the license fee payer says:

    It’s beginning to thaw, so global warming is real.

    Like

    • 280
      rebekah aka nellnewman says:

      Wait for the spring when they impose hosepipe bans for water shortage because the Environment Agency has again spent all it’s money on Directors bonuses and not enough infrastructure!!

      And again they’ll be saying the problem is all down to climate change! Lying troughers!!

      Like

      • 299
        The BBC causes serious mental illness says:

        Well, if the warming which causes the thaw, leads to flooding, then there will be a shortage of water once the flood water has receded. Then we can ban the hosepipes.

        For your information, when the sun disappears tonight and it grows dark, if you sacrifice a first born we guarantee that the sun god shall return within 12 hours.

        Like

      • 421
        Skint EO says:

        Not sure if it is true, but I read somewhere recently that all the reservoirs, lakes etc are now back to full up levels.

        Like

  31. 279
    Anonymous says:

    how wonderful to see the bbc promoting lesbianism to children via the show “the dumping ground” on cbbc.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01qb0s4/The_Dumping_Ground_What_Would_Gus_Want/

    Like

  32. 284
    Alistair Campbell says:

    I was Owen Jones once.

    Like

  33. 286
    KILL the Y i d s says:

    lol @ 1, Steve. You, almost, made me believe you were frothing at the mouth about something.

    Like

    • 302
      Steve Silman says:

      Better than frothing at the brain, I spose.

      Like

    • 311
      Elsie Beattie (83 and a quarter) says:

      All young men become bored with typing the same old tripe day after, endless, day, dear. Starting an argument with yourself is the most intelligent way to waste away the hours until Death’s Cold Hand strokes you, isn’t it Reg?

      Like

      • 314
        old SHEP says:

        Knock once for Yes and twice for No, Reg.

        Like

      • 320
        An, almost, indiscernible vibration of the teapot, formally known as Reg says:

        Please, do not forget to infuse the tomato plants’ roots with H2O, my dearest. You may find it pouring out of the tap.

        Like

        • 322
          Steve Buckel says:

          Are you formerly, Reg?

          Anyway, I killed E w a n m e. That makes me hard in my underpants.

          Like

          • anon says:

            Tosser

            Like

          • Connie Cerned says:

            Where is the poodle these days?

            Like

          • P e e S t a i n s says:

            what a wanker

            Like

          • Alan Fishface says:

            What did she ever do to you?

            Like

          • Hal Loomy says:

            Kiddy fiddler

            Like

          • Let's kick Buckle off this blog says:

            What a c’unt.

            Like

          • My Other Van's A Comma says:

            +1 Superfluous apostrophe ALERT ^

            Like

          • tommy tension says:

            She had something more interesting to say than this dork.

            I’m a first-time user but I’ve seen her work elsewhere. I don’t go there anymore, either.

            Like

          • Steve Buckel says:

            Unfortunately, I press the buttons. I like it that way: It makes me feel important. If you don’t enjoy watching my, imaginary, power-trip, I suggest you collect a full refund as you leave.

            Like

          • tommy tension says:

            Pfft. How much am I owed, then?

            Like

          • P e e S t a i n s says:

            Fuck this. The guy is stuck so far up his own arse, his brain is fighting for space with his heart. I’m going back to Facebook.

            Like

          • Hal Loomy says:

            Second that. I’m in delicate negotiations with a Vietnamese hottie.
            She wants, only, GBP10,600 for me to wave at her aged grandma via Skype.

            Like

          • am a machine says:

            C’mon dickhead. Get it together. You think this blog is all about YOU, yeah? TWAT.

            Like

          • Steve Buckel says:

            I’m a twot.

            Like

          • The Bowler's Holding, The Batsman's Willey says:

            That’s not his real name, btw.

            Like

          • P.C. Filth says:

            Evening all. He uses several aliases, sir. He’s wanted all over Europe, and The World, for sexual deviancies (probably involving miners) and has chosen to relocate off of my patch, madam.
            God help the humans of Albania, I say. Over.

            Like

          • Steve Buckel says:

            Of course you are right, Filth. This isn’t my real name, and I AM a sexual deviant, with a list of perversions as long as your truncheon to my name.
            Guido has been very accommodating and has helped me get back into the groove.
            Hmm. Tongue and groove. I did used to do something useful with my life but I ended it here, moderating some, piss-poor, shitty blog.
            Carry gets the “scoops”, Skypes me at, say, 0518 hours and my day begins when my cuckoo clock goes off at 0945, precisely.
            I play with my “droopy” for a while and then spring into action. There is never a boring day, what with all the news and politics and Mrs. Fungus doing the dusting.
            I have to think of something to say under Cun ty’s pathetic lead. The Serious Media have nailed it. What hope for us cranks?
            Well, I put my thinking-cap on and, on Carry’s say-so, I begin to type.
            I type the same things that I typed last year…and the year before …. and the year before that …………..
            ….Nobody notices. Apart from You know Who, but we banned her, so we’re brill.
            So, this is quite exciting for you, I suppose, on and on and on and on we go: Spouting d r i v e l until I go na-nights. No fuck reads it. No wanker cares.
            Why do I have to justify my existence by farting all over the internet?

            I’m not sure. Ask Ewa.

            Like

          • Bob - The bloke who pretends to be Ewаnmе x says:

            Me an Sue , Italy Oct 09

            Like

          • For "Steve", a prime wally says:

            I’m proud to have been E, Steve. What scared you so much about her that you had to play the prefect, FFS?

            Like

          • donito Zuta, Second Life says:

            Google….Google…..there you are. She still pops up here occasionally, on OUR grid, every fucking day. Please remove this Limey-arsed, fucktard poodle from our servers, goddammit. Pure poison. Plus, with all that bling, she tends to lag other church-going folks’ frame rates.

            Like

    • 353
      Steve Silman says:

      All the above is posted by one weird inhabitant of Pinner who will become known to his DHSS office soon – identified by his picture.

      Like

    • 406
      Sigmund Fraud says:

      You are oily users. Seek professional help. Soon.

      Like

  34. 288
    Harriet Harman, Stand-up Comedienne says:

    I say, I say, I say

    Do you know why women have smaller feet than men?

    So they can stand closer to the sink.

    On a subject closer to home – I caught Jack reading “50 Shades of Grey” the other day.

    He looked really embarrassed so I asked him why he felt so ashamed.

    “I empathise more with the woman than the man in the story”, he replied.

    God knows why he feels like that. Personally the only problem I’ve found with it is that it’s a bloody heavy book to hold in one hand!!!

    Anyway you’ve been a lovely audience. Thank you and Goodnight.

    Like

  35. 294
    Owen Jones says:

    Guido,I seriously can’t stop thinking about you.

    Like

    • 303
      rebekah aka nellnewman says:

      I suspect that owenjones’ problem is that he can’t stop thinking about himself.

      He’s nearly as famous as rylan!

      Like

  36. 297
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    OMG! The weekend modbot’s a pain!

    Like

  37. 301
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    So where is militwit now? He’s hasn’t appe ared in public since cameron announced that EU In/Out referendum and militwit said at pmq’s he opposed it.

    gordon his old mentor is stewing in his dark study in scotland and militwit is stewing in his staring at a blank sheet of paper.

    Whilst bullyballs and his shrill scheming wife are working out how to grasp the levers of power.

    Lovely lot!!

    Like

    • 305
      Who's a good little boy then? says:

      Bullyballs woulds do better taking over the Conservative party’ it’s left wing and ripe for takeover and it’s has lots of MP’s without spines.

      Like

    • 313
      Millitwatt the Elder says:

      You English are sh1te. Your country’s sh1te. I hope you loss the war. But ta for putting me up.

      Like

    • 334
      rebekah aka nellnewman says:

      Labour have a 5 point lead ( according to YOUGov the labour supporting pollster). And this is mid term of an austerity government!! Hmmmm!!

      Like

  38. 315
    Owen Jones says:

    New Bank of England head Mark Carney hints at big shift in policy http://gu.com/p/3dc33/tf

    Like

    • 340
      CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

      More people who believe you can lose weight by bending a mirror.

      We’re fucked.

      Like

      • 366
        Anonymous says:

        Cameron & Osborne are meant to be the country’s leaders, they are meant to serve the country’s interests. Instead we have Osborne flatly refusing to change from his disastrous austerity ideology.
        It’s going to be hard for some people to realise it but in Cameron and Osborne we are finally seeing that we have a pair who wish harm to their own country, who are deliberately setting out to damage the chances of their own citizens.

        We need leadership working in the national interest and instead we have wreckers.

        Like

        • 409
          CarryHole is a stupendous Hunt says:

          What Austerity? Spending is UP! Debt is UP!

          Proper austerity is what’s needed, and the cut in the size of the state should be used to afford tax cuts to get the economy working.

          Like

    • 365
      Anonymous says:

      The pound began to drop like a stone when Gidiot’s Bilderberger chum was announced as the next guv. He’ll trash sterling. The bigger issue is why Gidiot chased this guy with 300% salary increase over Mervyn when there were better suited individuals already at the BoE or treasury. Why are his expenses also being underwritten, including private school fees etc and an entourage on its way with him that’d make Michelle Obama blush..? The BoE is now been pawned by a private interest group.

      Like

  39. 317
    CCHQ Press Officer says:

    ComRes online for Indy on Sunday/S Mirror: CON 33 +5 LAB 39 nc LD 11+2 Ukip 10-4

    Like

    • 396
      Blowing Whistles says:

      And just exactly who did pay for that survey / poll – and does is it clearly, transaprently and openly state who paid / commissioned it? No – I thought not.

      Like

  40. 321
    O/T Syria Watch says:

    Interesting article relating to recent reports of Agent-15 chemical weapon being used in Syria:

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/01/25/buzz_bomb

    Now: This has exposed very clearly an interesting axis who are very much against Obama (if following the interventionist arguments at all), and the original source of the ‘weapon’ is somewhat interesting.

    Agent-15 is not BZ as some elements of the media have claimed.

    The original secret cables sourced from US / UK funded NGO’s : Possibly following a common purpose ?

    Like

    • 423
      Curly says:

      … a tiny, tiny, tiny phrase secretly snuck into Obarmy’s inaugural speech just a line or two before the end. A message to those in the know/loop?

      Like

  41. 330
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Y’Know I think gordon’s economic musings are rubbish.

    BUT his campaign for female equality in the 3rd world is really beginning to gain traction – He really is beginning to achieve something here – I really admire him for that !!!

    Like

  42. 338
    Harriet Harman Stand-up Comedienne says:

    Here’s one for the ladies…

    Why are women like dog t*rds?

    The older they are the easier they are to pick up!!

    It’s the way that I tell them!!

    Like

  43. 345
    Harriet Harman Stand-up Comedienne says:

    Here’s a good one – my uncle the Earl of Longford told me this while he was beating himself off over a life-size picture of Myra Hindley.

    An Australian and a New Zealander were walking across a field one day when the Kiwi spotted a sheep with its head stuck through a barbed wire fence.

    The pride of New Zealand manhood turned to his Aussie mate and announced “This is too good an opportunity to miss”.

    So he steps up, drops his trousers and proceeds to route shag the sheep senseless.

    The Aussie has been watching this intently (as they do). After the Kiwi has finished he says ” That looks fantastic do you mind if I have a go?”

    The Kiwi replies “Be my guest”

    So the Aussie steps up, drops his trousers and…….. sticks his head through the fence!!!!!!

    I’ll be here all week!!!

    Like

  44. 348
    Harriet Harman Stand-up Comedienne says:

    This is a genuine old Labour joke. Lardy Prescott told me this in his cups in 1978.

    What’ s the definition of disgusting?

    Licking the sweat off your grandmother’s back while your shagging her up the Khyber!!”

    Like

    • 351
      Lynn says:

      Dos i chwarae efo dy nain.

      Like

    • 375
      Jimmy Savile says:

      Now then, now then, here’s a rather-blue sick’un:

      “Daddy, daddy, what’s a ‘degenerate’?”
      “Hush up, kid, and keep sucking!”

      Don’t ask me where I first heard this one, ‘coz I don’t recall, as it happens.

      Like

  45. 354
    Anonymous says:

    ?

    Like

  46. 361
    Owen Jones says:

    how do you know if you need circumsising?

    Like

    • 376
      Your Friendly Neighbourhood Genitalia Information Service says:

      Well, being a Joo or a Muzlim, for starters…

      Like

    • 497
      Rabbi Chaim Gunnar Kutsher-Dickov says:

      Well, boychik, if you decide to do it, may I offer my services? I have had many feygeleh clients like you, and they’re all satisfied! And despite what you may have heard– I don’t take tips! (*boom tish*)

      Like

  47. 362
    Winnie the Pooh says:

    Another Lib Dem at it.

    Like

    • 374
      Piglet says:

      It isn’t going to cut it. So Clegg is anti-semet1c as well: Not surprised.

      Like

    • 397
      Blowing Whistles says:

      Ahh di dums – they all want to be seen as anti-israeli NOW ……….

      Like

      • 400
        Not Blowing Whistles says:

        Suspect they may be trying to do a Hagel. Bad move as one suspects they are not really in the loop on that game and are going to make total idiots of themselves, and screw up UK Foreign Policy.

        Any idea what Hague’s take is on all this, or has the government no official comment as of yet ?

        Like

        • 499
          Blowing Whistles says:

          I paid for a copy of this weeks JC – you will find plenty of answers and contradictions in it.

          Like

  48. 364
    Harriet Harman Stand-up Comedienne says:

    Ok – it’s getting late so just a bit of titillation (ooooooh Matron!!) for all you naughty boys out there.

    What’s the difference between a woman and a washing machine??

    Washing machines don’t keep phoning you up after you’ve dumped your load in them!!

    That’s a good one – write it down!!!

    Like

  49. 370
    Harriet Harman Stand-up Comedienne says:

    My good friend Tony Blair is so in love with the camel jockeys that he’s prepared to say or do almost anything as long as they keep feeding his offshore account.

    Due to my uniquely obsequious relationship to every spiv, sociopath and hypocrite who has been Pm of Britain since 2007 I am able to bring you a joke straight from the war criminal Blair’s mouth.

    Apparently a few years ago there was a global conference on paranormal activity – ghosts if you will. Due to the swivel-eyed Islamism and money of King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia and the spinelessness of Blair et al Al-Qaeda was allowed to send a representative and to the surprise of everyone good old Osama bin-Laden turned up.

    When the conference started the Chairman ( a rational man – it might have been David Icke or Eric von Daniken – I can’t remember which) stood up and said..

    I’d like to ask the audience “Who has seen a ghost?”

    Of the 2,000 delegates about 1000 hands were raised.

    The Chairman then asked “Who has spoken to a ghost?”

    500 hands were raised.

    “Who has touched a ghost?””

    50 hands were raised.

    Finally “Who has had sex with a ghost?”

    No one moved. Eventually the chairman re-asked an a hesitant hand at the back was raised.

    “You sir – what is your name?”

    “Osama bin-Laden”

    “And you’ve had sex with a ghost??”

    “I beg your pardon – I thought you said goat!!!”

    Like

  50. 373
    Saffron says:

    Listening to all this mainly garbage/juvenile comments being posted today,it does make me wonder why we have so many people on this site who have’nt a clue as to what goes on in their name.
    People you really need to wakey wakey as to what goes on.
    Your country is being demolished before your very eyes,exactly what are you going to do to prevent this happening.
    My advice to all of you is to do not trust our current crowd of politico’s to achieve what we all demand and that is a free England able to determine it’s own future as it as done in the past for generations.
    Please tell these other lands to feck off and paddle their own canoe onto whereever it takes them.

    Like

    • 377
      Casual Observer says:

      Agreed. Some in politics have warned of the consequences of what will happen if the people are not listened to, and history has plenty of warnings as well.

      At present, the country needs to pivot away from political correctness and back to more direct and rational and conservative thought. The liberal left need to be cowed and exposed for the charlatans they are: This is happening now.

      The following video is instructive as to what is going on with policy message, and perhaps also how the problem will resolve if democracy fails us:

      I am not the loony welsh one, and only post this vid as it is cool and is a poignant allegory for the point being made.

      Like

  51. 379
    Dave Camera on says:

    A stalking horse they say. Could it be ex MET?

    Like

  52. 380
    Winnie the Pooh says:

    Breaking:

    Just in from the BBC / Radio 5 live go to muslim and head of the Ramadamadingdong foundation.

    Like

    • 384
      Winnie the Pooh says:

      Wow BBC pundit loses the plot.

      Like

      • 385
        Winnie the Pooh says:

        BBC pundit still at it.

        Like

      • 399
        Piglet says:

        That is the sort of statement which doesn’t exactly help the debate, or inform. Also, it is virtually impossible to prove one way or the other.

        Since 2000, 1516 P@lestinian children have been killed in the conflict, and 129 !sraeli children have died.

        This site provides up to date statistics and more details:

        http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html

        2009 was a particularly bad year, notable for the 3 week ‘Gaza War’. Exact body count for that conflict is still being determined.

        This is very serious of course, and represents at the very least a clear breach of !sraels 4th Geneva Convention responsibilities. !srael itself takes such matters very seriously and does not, as suggested, take pleasure or pride in these statistics.

        Children were being used as shields and directly in some of the actions between the two sides. The deployment of military and use of lethal force though goes directly against 4th Geneva Convention responsibilities though.

        There have been prosecutions of !DF soldiers for unlawful killings. However, there has been criticism of the length of sentences. 45 days for soldier ‘S’ who killed a surrendering (white flag bearing) mother and daughter during Operation Cast Lead following plea bargain did attract some criticism. It should be understood though that this was a military court judgement and until very recently !DF members have had total immunity.

        Confronting and dealing with these issues will have to happen, however such detail is obstructive to the more immediate concern of sorting out state borders, making ceasefire permanent and ensuring that there is stability in the region.

        The pattern to follow will likely be similar to that in South Africa post Apartheid, with truth and reconciliation commissions for the lesser crimes but perhaps involvement of the ICC for some of the more serious offences which have taken place on both sides.

        Like

        • 402
          Piglet says:

          I should mention further that the investigation into Staff Sergent ‘S’ mentioned above was in response to complaints raised by !sraeli human rights group B’Tselem.

          Killing those who are bearing a white flag is illegal under IHL (International Humanitarian Law) if such bearing is not perfidious.

          The white flag is an internationally recognized protective symbol, and in this case it was clearly not being used perfidiously.

          ‘S’ should be tried for associated war crime for under Geneval Protocol 1 / IHL: !srael is a signatory to IHL. Prosecution is the responsibility of the ICC.

          Like

          • Piglet says:

            Final point on the Gaza War 2008/09:

            The Goldstone report is mentioned above.

            The rethink on the conclusions once full evidence was available (after publication of the report) is worth reading:

            http://tinyurl.com/3bemx37

            Certain members of Hamas should be brought before ICC. Incidentally, Fatah have previously been found guilty of committing crimes against humanity: ‘Costal Road Massacre’ (1978)

            Like

  53. 381
    *Tick-tick, whirrr-whirrr* Durrr........ says:

    If this blog is so successful, why does it buy space in The Star On Sunday?

    Like

    • 386
      Dave Figgley says:

      Ha ha, son. It isn’t. P e e B r a i n ‘ s drug dealer works on that arsewipe, mate. They’re all in this together. Fucking riff-raff.

      Like

  54. 388
    For "Steve", a prime wally says:

    Like

  55. 405
    Pi$$ Organ says:

    Continuing to win them over in America, now with hypocritical apparently political correct homophobic attacks on members of the gay community:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/19/piers-morgan-s-desperate-attacks-on-his-critics.html

    Andrew Sullivan (British Author based now in the US) declared his fellow Brit to be “a dick” who is “extremely bitchy.” – in a blog post entitled: “The Dumb, Disgusting Desperation of Piers Morgan”

    Quite accurate across the board. Funny that Piers is only now defending his journalistic integrity: Didn’t that comprehensively die after he faked the !raq Torture stuff and get fired from the Mirror ?

    Like

  56. 408
  57. 425
    albacore says:

    Ain’t it sweet to see Tone give Dave nine out of ten
    They’re as hard to tell apart as Flowerpot Men
    Except a referendum’s a no-go for Tone
    He reckons there’s no way we can make it alone
    Still, though, with Dave’s record on a cast-iron vote
    Tone really don’t need to get sweaty about owt
    Since LibLabCon incitement of immigration
    Made Britain just land and no longer a nation

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268918/Tony-Blair-warns-leaving-European-Union.html

    Like

    • 428
      EU Watch says:

      In that article Blair invokes Chruchill’s Zurich speech calling for United States of Europe as being reason for UK to remain ‘in’ : As well as putting lots of scare rubbish down about population size etc. etc. etc.

      Let us remind ourselves how Churchill concluded his speech, which is where he referenced the United States of Europe:

      ‘Great Britain, The British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America and I trust Soviet Russia – for: then indeed all would be well – must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine.’

      Full text: http://assembly.coe.int/Main.asp?link=/AboutUs/zurich_e.htm

      Rest of speech as well certainly does not suggest that he intended UK to be part of this. Rather, speech was a call for Europe, the land across the channel, to pull it’s socks, bury the hatchets and start rebuilding.

      On the population front: Quality over quantity always wins. If you can get a lot of good quality all the better. That Europe doesn’t partially explains the economic mess.

      Article fail: Vote UKIP.

      Like

      • 430
        Who's a good little boy then? says:

        The scare tactics, will get worse as 2014 gets closer for the EUSSR vote, these evil, corrupt tossers need the EU as a paymaster so will do anything to frighten the voting braindead into submission just as they have been doing since 1974, even by allowing immigration they are still worried they don’t have control..

        Like

        • 431
          EU Watch says:

          Of that I have no doubt.

          The only concerning aspect is all the easy to defeat rhetoric and mistakes such as this are being wheeled out very quickly.

          The news 24 repeat ad nauseum machine is being counterproductive, and maybe deliberately so.

          Just hope that the more physical methods the state could call on are ruled out. It does feel like MSM is pushing the buttons to stoke up some sort of widespread civil unrest. In that event could see European forces being drawn in given that police and UK armed forces numbers are being reduced.

          Like

          • Who's a good little boy then? says:

            If they bring in EU forces then I believe we could end up with civil disruption, it would be as if we had been invaded and all those g u ns I believe we don’t have in the country will be used, nothing like the English when they get nasty.

            Like

          • Machiavelli says:

            Perhaps the reduction of troops and police is a little more subtle.

            With the mismanagement of the economy and coming cut backs the reduction of service personnel ostensibly reduces expenditure, but also reduces the possibility of military coup. Such things happen from time to time.

            Recent events surrounding pleb comments demonstrate that someone is not happy with government. It has still not been answered as to who precisely, or why.

            Like

  58. 429
    Owen Jones says:

    I was taking a piss in the garden today when my boyfriend shouted:

    “Owen, fucking stop that right now! We have guests trying to eat their lunch out here.”

    “Oh get off it luv” I said “I was busting and the toilet was engaged, what do you expect me to do?”

    “Face the other way!” he screamed.

    Like

    • 478
      Owen's Mum says:

      Now stop telling lies again dear you know full well that you have a colostomy bag, I think it’s time you put your special jacket on in the dark place and took your lithium salts.

      Like

  59. 434
    Dave Camera on says:

    Brittan ruled the ways…..

    http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/

    Like

  60. 437
    PC Dave the Gays Luvver says:

    Remember, Remember the 5th.February.

    Like

    • 453
      Top Priority ? I don't think so !!! says:

      AND that’s another totally unneccesary waste of parliamentary time as well. It’ll split the country;the church and the Tory party. It’s not as if the much publicised so called “Quadruple Locks” will protect the church and anyone else who refuse from religious beliefs to officiate or allow gay marriage in their buildings. It will collapse at the first challenge in the courts.

      It’s not as if Cameron will gain anything politically other tha perhaps a few plaudits from the Guradian reading “luvvies” of Notting Hill, Hampstead and Brightonl etc. He will gain not one extra vote or supporter from it as certainly the people that will gain aren’t natural Tory supporters or likely to be.

      Like

      • 459
        CHRIST ON A BIKE! says:

        It maintains his wetness with the floating vote. A well researched strategy.
        Natural Conservatives will vote Tory even if the grumble about things like that. If political parties only ever thought about “natural” supporters, they would never win elections.

        Like

        • 464
          albacore says:

          It may not be the straw that breaks the camel’s back
          But these days there is such a discernible lack
          In the Tory party of owt at all Tory
          Those naturals have sussed the geat fairy story

          Like

  61. 440
    Owen Jones says:

    Guido Fawkes demonstrating the empty space between his ears on this blog !!!

    Like

  62. 456
    Owen Jones says:

    Who is the world famous pop star mentioned? Yet another injunction? Why does nobody talk about it? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-seize-vip-list-in-dawn-1546351

    Like

    • 457
      Tom Watson says:

      Exaro is set to run further break on the alleged paedophile ring of MPs and other VIPs centred on Elm Guest House late tonight.

      Like

    • 458
      Tom Watson says:

      Exaro is set to run further break on the alleged pa*dophile ring of MPs and other VIPs centred on Elm Guest House late tonight.

      Like

      • 500
        Blowing Whistles says:

        See The IOS page 10 Cyril smith etc. Even the judiciary get a mention in column 3 line 13.

        Like

    • 461
      Legal Eagle says:

      Not mentioned: Injunction (??) / Libel.

      Like

    • 496
      CHRIST ON A BIKE! says:

      Probably because it is a load cobblers!
      Shitty left-wing rags talking about unnamed “Tories” allegedly up to no good decades ago, yet seemingly unable to produce witnesses and victims, and only say there names appear on “lists” drawn up by god knows who.
      Perhaps the papers and fatboy Watson might be trying to deflect attention onto the Conservatives and way from Labour’s bestest friends at the Beeb. D’ya think?

      Like

  63. 463
    And murrays foot bunion says:

    “They may take ma game set n’ match but they will never take ma freedom”

    Like

  64. 466
    Owen Jones says:

    Holocaust Memorial Day is a time to reflect on the horror of ALL genocides.Please
    watch Prisoner Number A261188 BBC1 22:25 GMT tonight.

    Like

  65. 468
    Owen Jones says:

    David Steel said naming pa*dophile diplomat may be “abuse of Parliamentary Privilege” http://twitpic.com/bxphjn

    Like

  66. 473
    Coming to a voting booth near you says:

    Bl4ck on Bl4ck.

    Adam Afriyie V Chuka Umunna.

    Like

  67. 474
    Kebab Time says:

    Can’t wait for Guido’s column :) I’m salivating just at the thought of it.

    Like

  68. 476
    Owen Jones says:

    Whats the difference between the snow and my penis?

    The snow isn’t measured in millimeters.

    Like

  69. 482
    Dave"The One Term Prime Minister" Cameron says:

    I’m sure that I speak for the entire House when I wish Andy Murray the very best of luck in the Australian Open Tennis.

    Go on,my son !!

    Like

    • 483
      Ed Miliband (Prime Minister designate) says:

      You stupid arse,Dave !!!!!!!

      Poor old Murray, 1.2 million for runner up… bless his little grimacing scrunched up fucking face

      Like

    • 488
      FU EU says:

      What ever else he is the europhile cameron is English (and an unprooven Jonah), it’s the scotish cnut brown that is the jonah and who supports the miserable jock cnut murrymong.

      Like

  70. 484
    Otis B Driftwood says:

    I’m making a documentary abou tPrince Harry going to war against the Taliban.

    It’s called when Harry met Tali.

    Like

  71. 486
    Bearer of Good News says:

    Andy Murray……..

    Like

  72. 490
    David Ward says:

    For Holocaust Memorial Day, I shall be pulling my foreskin back.

    Like

  73. 492
    Owen Jones says:

    500 ???

    I knocked on some blokes door last night and said, “You haven’t seen a purple cat, have you?”

    “I’m afraid not,” he replied.

    I said, “Me neither mate.”

    Like

  74. 493
    (I don't need no doctor) says:

    If the EU is the biggest single market in the world, then why is the cost of, say food, so much higher than the same items in the USA.
    Basic food items in the USA are at least half the cost of those in the EU.

    Like

  75. 502
    Reminisce says:

    I remember the good old days when a quality comment thread started with ‘FIRST’

    Gone to the dogs now.

    Like


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