January 24th, 2013

Dave Denies Debt Truth


In all the referendum chatter yesterday something significant went little reported. Fraser Nelson pointed out that the Prime Minister told a massive fib in the Conservative party political broadcast. He claimed the government was “paying down Britain’s debts”, listen:

As you can see from the graph that is completely untrue. That’s not poor phrasing. That is lying.

UPDATE: Jean-Christophe Gray – the PM’s spokesman – told the Lobby that the PM does know the difference between the UK’s budget deficit, down from 11% to 7% of GDP and the total stock of debt, up from 70.7% to 79.9% by the time of the next general election.


  1. 1
    Jimmy says:

    “the Prime Minister told a massive fib”

    And this is your idea of news?

  2. 2
    keredybretsa says:

    Playing down surely?

  3. 3
    Ed Balls says:

    Isn’t that my job?

  4. 4
    Hugh Janus says:

    He’s a politician (and not even a very good one) and his lips were moving. Ergo, he was lying.

    Next subject: The Bleedin’ Obvious?

  5. 5
    Britain says:

    MY debt? Nobody asked me?

  6. 6
    Ah! Monika 2013 +1 says:

    Imagine a stack of crisp, new £20 notes in front of you.
    A one thousand pound stack would be only 5 millimetres high.
    A one million pound stack would be over 5 metres high, about the height of an average two-storey house.
    A one billion pound stack would be 3.5 miles high.
    A one trillion pound stack would be 3,500 miles high. If laid on its side, it would stretch from London to New York.

  7. 7
    Politician Watch says:

    There is nothing to say that politicians cannot lie, they just have to be honest in the house.

    More astonishing is the fact that the opposition did not pick up on this.

    Could have saved Milliband a chunk of his electorate.

  8. 8
    Plato says:

    I guess his argument is that they’re paying off some debt, whilst at the same time borrowing more.

  9. 9
    The lips, they move, they lie says:

    The bunch of bastards are all the same

  10. 10
    Margaret Hodge MP says:

    If I appoint a fucking manager I expect him to manage and not fanny about making fucking speeches about what he is going to do or not going to do in fucking ten years time.

    I dont give a toss too what school he went to or how much money he has got in the fucking Bank: if he works for me he pulls his finger out of his arse and gets results.

    I trust Cameron has now got the message.

  11. 11
    Liam Byrne says:

    I did say there was no money left

  12. 12
    Oy Vey says:

    Never understood why Miliband doesn’t use this obvious ammo….

    In other news, the Doris that RoadKill t-shirts advery – holy cow…..

  13. 13
    sadbutmadlad says:

    Does the chart take into account inflation?

  14. 14
    Economist says:

    Do those figures include the QE ?

    Would be interesting to see the adjustment subtracting the money the UK has lent to itself.

  15. 15
    Call me Dave says:

    Can you just define exactly what you mean by results please?

  16. 16
    Egg Card says:

    Yes we have a 0% transfer rate for you that will let you spread to costs of nationhood. Rates can change at any time especially when we sell out to BarclayCard

  17. 17
    Jimmy says:

    Yes but the position has since deteriorated.

  18. 18
    Give Me Free Money I am Bulgarian says:

    He’ll need to borrow more once we turn up!

  19. 19
    Hors catégorie says:

    Zut alors, this is a bigger profile than the Mont Ventoux

  20. 20
    Gordon Brown says:

    So is that double no money left, or dynamite or double dare?

  21. 21
    Scotchland says:

    So long and thanks for all the fish

  22. 22
    Jimmy says:

    It means that by the time these clowns are finished we will look back at the 2008 crash as a golden age.

  23. 23
    Captian George Gideon Oliver Osborne says:

    Steady as she goes.

  24. 24
    David says:

    No, I really don’t understand the difference between debt and deficit, just like Labour politicians. I only did arts at school followed by a PPE degree.

  25. 25
    A Romanian says:

    Me too!

  26. 26
    Jimmy says:

    Give Butch his due. The last wave of Eastern European immigration was attracted by plentiful employment opportunities in a booming economy. It would be churlish to deny the government’s success in addressing this issue.

  27. 27
    Ed Millibland says:

    Why is it red?

  28. 28
  29. 29
    Ruling Elite says:

    I sent a quid in, hasn’t that sorted it yet?

  30. 30
    Civil Servants says:

    Just like us. We only employ generalists in senior roles.

  31. 31
    Call me Dave says:

    The pink pound will save the day

  32. 32
    Britain says:

    A small price to pay…

  33. 33
    The Mystical Magical Money Tree says:

    Keep in the dark and feed plenty of bullshit

  34. 34
    Gordon Brown says:

    Yes it works I can imagine it.

    Can I spend it now?

  35. 35
    Engineer says:

    Well that’s taken long enough. Plenty of senior politicians have been muddling ‘deficit’ and ‘debt’ since 2008, sometimes, quite possibly, deliberately; how come no journalist has noticed before?

  36. 36
    Nothing Better To Do says:

    WAIT, you mean Cameron is a liar?

    Oh my God, maybe he’s lying about other stuff too?

    Like a referendum perhaps?

  37. 37
    Simon Cawkwell says:

    Bit of a long short, I know. But could not Dave defend himself by declaring that Britain is paying debts as and when they fall due even if Britain is taking on more debts to achieve this result?

    This is of course misrepresentation bordering upon deception. But it would not count as lying.

  38. 38
    Engineer says:

    Some people look back at WW2 as a golden age. There’s no accounting for some people’s opinions.

  39. 39
    Anonymous says:

  40. 40
    King of the Mountains says:

    And Tommy Simpson made a better fist of climbing it

  41. 41
    Synic says:

    Dave is a fucking liar

  42. 42
    Dr Who says:

    Is Jimmy really that thick?

  43. 43
    Ex-Tory says:

    Richard Littlejohn’s basic conversion to a family budget shows the true horror of the State finances:

    UK tax revenues £550,600,000,000
    Spending £694,890,000,000
    New borrowing £117,500,000,000
    Outstanding debt £1,312,100,000,000
    Spending cuts £11,000,000,000

    Now take off seven zeros and pretend it’s a household budget.

    Annual family income £55,060
    Annual family spending £69,489
    New debt on credit card £11,750
    Outstanding credit card balance £131,210
    Family spending cuts £1,100

  44. 44
    NO EUROGOV says:

    Of course.

  45. 45
    Anonymous says:

    The Big Speech

    Dave, your long awaited speech
    Puts referendums out of reach
    We’ve not forgot the CAST IRON VOW
    And nobody believes you now
    So even if you makes it law
    No dice, we’ve heard it all before

    The Tory troops you try to muster
    All realise the speech is bluster
    Your hope to shoot the UKIP Fox
    Won’t surface in the ballot box
    Now UKIP’s got you on the ropes
    And blown away all Tory hopes

    We’re all fed up pissed off and grumpy
    Sick to death of Ange and Rumpy
    We do not want your EU flag
    To us it’s just a piece of rag
    We want our sovereignty back
    Our culture, laws and Union Jack

  46. 46
    Dave the Lying Moron says:

    Mervyn — just Q.E. another trillion pounds for me. There’s a good chap.

    Debt? What debt? Just inflate it all away.

  47. 47
    CarryHole is a Dismal Hunt says:

    Berlin wall fell and he’s still a marxist, so yes! He is that thick.

  48. 48
    Blair, Brown, Blears, Harman, .......k says:

    ‘they just have to be honest in the house.’

    Not me chum.

  49. 49
    Graphics Dept. says:

    Would it be the size of Wales?

  50. 50
    Shanghai Wheelbarrow Company says:

    We sell you cheap wheelbarrow so you can carry home wages. Top quality, made in China.

  51. 51
    Call me Dave KOM (Kunt of the Moment) says:

    Follow me on Strava

  52. 52
    Ex Warm person says:

    Sounds about right

  53. 53
    Financial Pedant says:

    Should the family Credit card not be £14,429? i.e. the diff between income and spending

  54. 54
    Anonymous says:

    The way to look upon a billion is to know that a billion minutes ago Hadrian’s Wall had not been built.

  55. 55
    Stavros says:

    - All quangos to reduce overheads and headcount by one third
    – 20% savings across local government
    – Fire the bottom 10% underperformers in the civil service for incompetence
    – Nobody in local government can earn more than the PM
    – Stop all pilgrims tomorrow
    – Make public sector shirkers work longer hours
    – No cushy early retirement for public servants

    There, I’ve flushed billions of few savings in 20 seconds

  56. 56
    Mad Gordon McMad says:

    I said that I saved the World. That was true!

  57. 57
    Popeye says:

    He opened his mouth, why not presume he’s lying?

  58. 58
    Living in 96.98 percent white Merseyside says:

    Oh beautiful bridge of the silvery Tay
    Alas I am very sorry to say

  59. 59
    Living in 96.98 percent white Merseyside says:

    He’s still got North Korea.

  60. 60
    Anonymous says:

  61. 61
    Kebab time gives me a boner says:

    See 41 below for clarification.

  62. 62
    Fishy says:

    Of course he’s paying down our debts. If he wasn’t, the net debt would be even bigger.

  63. 63
    Anonymous says:

    Adding to the suggestions for savings (No 55 above) :

    Abolish the DfID altogether.

    Ditto the Ministry for Culture, Media and Sport, and any government or local government department with the words Climate Change or Equality in its title.

    Close down the London Assembly and sell off the building. The London Mayoralty to be terminated when the current Mayor’s term expires.

    Any useful functions from the above to be returned to the traditional ministries, e.g. the Home Office or the Ministry of Works.

    Abolish the Supreme Court, sell the building, and bring back the Law Lords.

    Sell off the BBC, and use the proceeds to pay down the National Debt.

  64. 64
    Yawn! says:

    Devious by delusional Dave strikes again! Does he really think he can get away with such whoppers and no one will notice?

  65. 65
    Jim says:

    This can only happen by poor Media reporting. A labour spokesperson was allowed to say that the increase in borrowing was because the Tories had increased Welfare payments. Nothing to do with pre 2010 signed contracts and no attempt to balance reporting. It is what the media wish to Broadcast and not the truth that matters. They always need another story for tomorrow, that is why the I of FS do so many reports on the same subject. The Media choose which one suits their story.

  66. 66
    Jim says:

    Increase Food Banks.

  67. 67
    Jim says:

    No tax bill?

  68. 68
    Jim says:

    Loads of cash, but no tax bill?

  69. 69
    (I've been renamed) DA-Notice says:

    ..and the next great deception will be nominal GDP targeting.

    In the debt to GDP ratio GDP is the numerator so if they (Mark Carney and the Dept. of Debt, formerly the Treasury) target GDP to increase it the ratio either goes down or rises at a slower rate depending on what the nation’s debt burden does but it will appear to be not as much of a problem as before even though it may still be rising at the same rate because we still have a budget deficit.

  70. 70
    (I've been renamed) DA-Notice says:

    Anyway, it’s all pants, the real figure of national debt is now around £6 trillion including unfunded liabilities.



  71. 71
    T'old Fella says:

    Probably the same reason that folks do not know the difference between turnover and profit.

  72. 72
    Wilkins Micawber says:

    Annual Income: Twenty Pounds
    Annual Expenditure: 19/19/6
    Result = Happiness.

    Annual Income: Twenty Pounds
    Annual Expenditure: 20/0/6
    Result = Misery.


  73. 73
    Mervyn King says:

    I’ll just print up some more. What’s the problem?

  74. 74
    Mike Newland says:

    ‘This time is different’. Government can go on borrowing money forever!

  75. 75
    LL says:

    “This can only happen by poor Media reporting. ”

    Uh? Did you listened to an himself saying it?

  76. 76
    nickleaton says:

    And Frazer Nelson doesn’t understand the difference between borrowing and debts.

    They have pensions debts.


    In summary, the estimates in the new supplementary table indicate a total Government pension obligation, at the end of December 2010, of £5.01 trillion, or 342 per cent of GDP, of which around £4.7 trillion relates to unfunded obligations.

    Currently that’s up to 5,300 bn on top of the borrowing.

    Imagine. Going after Cameron for his lies, and lying in the process

  77. 77
    hey ho says:

    john redwoods blog has been pointing this out for some time

  78. 78
    Moggsy says:

    Massive fib… Well did you see his lips move? What did you expect then?

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