January 23rd, 2013

What Loyal Tories Used to Say about In/Out

The airwaves are awash today with loyal Tories backing the PM and his speech. Though take a look at what they were saying on the 24 October 2011 when Cameron whipped his MPs against a non-binding motion urging the government to take up an In/Out Referendum:

Mrs Angie Bray:
Does my hon. Friend accept that although the country is undoubtedly interested in all matters EU, it is probably more interested in issues such as growth and jobs? Does he also accept that a referendum at this time would simply create uncertainty, which would hardly be conducive to attracting the foreign investors that we need to help with growth and jobs?

Mr Glyn Davies:
I think that to have a debate on a referendum would be a huge mistake while we in Britain must deal with huge financial and economic issues, along with another massive issue—the social dislocation felt by so many of our young people. A referendum on our future relationship

Mr Aidan Burley:
I must consider the impact that passing this motion would have on my constituents. That is the key point. Business men have told me that there are signs that give cause for optimism, but that the recovery is fragile. Those business men’s fear, and mine, is that the announcement of a referendum, involving the campaign extending to 2013 for which the motion calls, could have a devastating effect on business confidence and investment. This morning I spoke to a business man from my constituency who had come here to be given a tour of the House of Commons. He works for an international company in the private sector which has invested heavily in the United Kingdom and employs several hundred people in my constituency, and he has already been told by the members of his executive board in America that the potential further instability caused by a referendum could cause them to question future investment not just in Cannock Chase, but in the United Kingdom and the whole of Europe. At a time when business is crying out for stability, a referendum would move it in totally the opposite direction, creating yet more instability when what we need is foreign investment. While that business man would not oppose a referendum in principle, now is simply not the time for one.

Today: “Promise of an In/Out referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU will be welcomed across Cannock Chase today.”

Mr Robert Walter:
The world has shrunk. More than ever, we travel, we trade and we live in each other’s countries. In 1972, this House voted not only to be part of that common European future but to be an architect of its destiny as a full member of the European Community. The European Union is not a perfect form of government, but neither are the British Government, any Department of State or any local government. If that were the case, we would not be here; we would all be wasting our time. Europe needs Britain and Britain needs Europe. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary struck the right note earlier. We are in Europe, our history is European and our destiny is European. As far as I am concerned, we are here to stay and I beg my colleagues to reject the motion

Mr Tony Baldry:
Will the Prime Minister confirm that, at the last general election, the Conservative manifesto committed us to seeking to return powers from Europe on economic and social policy, but that nowhere did it contain a commitment to seek an in/out referendum or to seek to renegotiate our terms of membership of the European Union?

Mr Jake Berry:
I take this opportunity to put on record the fact that we must have a fundamental renegotiation of our relationship with Europe, but we do not live in a bubble, and we must pay attention to the crisis in the eurozone and to politics in our own country. The crisis in the eurozone is like a spark in Pudding lane. If we do not continue to support member states in supporting the euro and in sorting out the Greek problem, the fire will rip through the City of London and our entire economy. A vote today to put in doubt our membership of the EU for up to 18 months would fuel market speculation, fatally wound the eurozone and its economies, and have exactly the same effect here in the UK.

Today: “Nick Clegg promised an in out referendum at the election. What’s changed mind? #UnitedConservativeParty”

Ms. Charlotte Leslie:
The motion is tragically timed, because it pits against each other the equally valid causes of ensuring that security and stability are maintained during a great euro crisis that will affect us here in the United Kingdom—even the discussion of a referendum on leaving the European Union will contribute to that instability—and giving the people the voice that they have been denied for so long in the determination of our role in Europe. It is a shame that that conflict has arisen today, but it makes our referendum lock and the conditions surrounding it all the more important.

Sir Malcolm Rifkind:
I say to the House that we cannot constrain the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister in the incredibly difficult negotiations that will take place. To have a debate that might lead to a referendum on whether Britain will remain in the European Union or leave it entirely is such a massive distraction from the real concerns that this country and the rest of Europe have to address. [ Interruption. ] I am sorry, but I am entitled to my view, just as all my hon. Friends are entitled to theirs.

Guido never forgets.


188 Comments

  1. 1
    Confused dot com says:

    meercats make moe sense

    Like

    • 3
      EU? In out shake it all about says:

      Which way is the populist, here today, gone tomorrow, vote going today, tories?

      Like

      • 15
        Anonymous says:

        What is stopping Cameron giving an in / out vote before 2015?

        Why does he wants country to wait till 2015 before he starts the process? Even Cameron’s partner in government, LD promised in their 2010 manifesto to give a in / out vote on EU.

        Like

        • 48
          old git says:

          Remember this

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            This is why Cameron will always give a vote after the next general election.

            Like

          • Get Rid Of Them Before They Get Rid Of You says:

            “Don’t you think all of us should have a say in the referendum we were promised”

            They are all actors and where their acting is deficient they can rely on the media sounding boards to present it as political incompetence and careerism. If they really did identify at some level with the people in this country, they couldn’t possibly hold onto any self-esteem and indulge in these farces.

            Like

        • 104
          Marmite says:

          Because anon, Cameron is in an unwanted alliance with the Limpdums & THEY are stopping a referendum!

          Like

          • I Remember You Hoo says:

            Rubbish, none of the LabLibCon party want a referendum and none want to leave the EU political gravy train. If we can have a referendum in 2017 we can have one today. All the rest is posture and lies.

            Like

          • Central Office stooge says:

            Too right, IRYH. If Dave thinks next year isn’t soon enough for the referendum in Scotland, why should the rest of us wait until 2017?

            Like

        • 113
          Cynical-old-bag says:

          They might have, but they didn’t actually tell us when the Referendum would take place…….and we fell for it.

          Like

          • anonymous (mk2) says:

            like it or not EU is a state policy. Anything other, ie referendum, is merely lipservice to the illusion of democracy. Listen to that speech, it is a trumpet for EU membership and nothing else. Playing for time is borne out of a hope that circumstances, politically and economically will change in both the EU and UK.

            Remember the Camoron comments regarding the Scots referendum being held in 2 years time? If a referendum does occur, i can see the clamor before the next election since the guy has no strategy and responds to events.

            Like

        • 177
          Anonymous says:

          Like

    • 5
      Kent Constable says:

      Moe money moe problems!

      Like

    • 20
      CarryHole is a Dismal Hunt says:

      Like

      • 37
        Anonymous says:

        Cameron might also say, if you vote for him in the next general election he will make pigs fly after you have voted.

        Can anyone trust Cameron?

        Like

        • 117
          I Remember You Hoo says:

          More to the point, does anyone trust any part of the LabLibCon Party, when they are all proven liars?

          Like

          • UKIP voter to be says:

            Note the number of times that slippery Cameron said ‘I believe that …’.
            Heir of damned Blair indeed.

            Like

      • 44
        Sane UK Voter says:

        Excellent interview Mr Farage.

        Like

      • 55
        Fishy says:

        I would have more respect for Farridge if he didn’t have a poncy European name, a European wife, was ladling up millions of Euros worth of EU expenses, didn’t lead a party of Euro troughing nobodies, and if stopped telling the biggest lie in British politics about ‘the cast iron guarantee’, something that Cameron never made.

        Other than that I think he is a smooth talking idiot who will only bring about the election of a hard left Labour a party implacably dedicated to the destruction of Britain.
        Just like Milipede, he is another dangerous political narcissist.

        Like

        • 72
          Anonymous says:

          Cameron is the person who gave two aircraft carriers to this country without aircraft.

          Cameron is the person used veto in EU, still EU went ahead.

          Cameron is the person who created 500,000 jobs while total benefits paid went up.

          Cameron is the person who will let in 4,000,000 plus Romanian and Bulgarian into UK

          Like

          • Marmite says:

            Anonymong, you have your political parties mixed up! It is feckin LABOUR that did all the above unforgiveable things during their 13 years of terror!

            Get your facts straight!

            Like

          • I Remember You Hoo says:

            Err, is Cameron going to stop the Romanian and Bulgarian huddled masses from entering the UK? Nope.

            Is Cameron going to end the insanity of publicly subsidised wind farms, which will never produce anything reliable or tangible? Nope.

            Is Cameron going to lower taxes and cut spending on worthless shite like HS2? Nope.

            Is Cameron serious about a referendum, when he has always refused one in the past and said he will never support a move to leave the EU? Nope.

            Like

        • 76
          Beefy says:

          Surely it’s still lunchtime at Conservative HQ? Hadn’t you better finish your last sandwich rather than post rubbish here?

          Like

      • 106
        hank the cat says:

        Catching herrings in the Solant, you have ny vote

        Like

    • 34
      CarryHole is a Dismal Hunt says:

      See how out of touch the average CiF reader is here!

      http://preview.tinyurl.com/b6lef9v

      Like

    • 162
      old git says:

      If I was a Tory or Libdem MP, right now I would be planning my future after 2015. All of you must now realise that the very best you can hope for is a decade or two in opposition if you are lucky, However a large swathe of you will become unemployed so over the next couple of years you need to do some serious sucking up to those who may see fit to employ you. Pontificating about what needs to be done in order to win in 2015 is pie in the sky. Gay marrige, the EU, Immigration and the economy have already destroyed any glimmer of a victory that may have existed. Its time to wake up and smell the coffee. Political defeat is stareing you in the face.The electorate will all be watching the major influx of immigrants from Rumania and Bulgaria collecting their family allowance, disability benefits, housing benefits, jobseekers allowances not to mention there free acess to the overloaded NHS and free education after contributing absolutly nothing. Meanwhile their family allowance and other benefits are cut and Granny is forced to sell her home to pay for care after a lifetimes contributions to the states coffers. You couldn’t make it up

      Like

      • 169
        Boshy says:

        Absolutely bang on………….

        Like

      • 183
        Central Office stooge says:

        “Gay marriage, the EU, Immigration”

        You answered it there. That [i]is[/i] the future for those MP who are sure to lose their seats in 2015.

        Like

      • 185
        Eeyore says:

        Good summary, OG.

        You could add the concreting-over of our countryside to provide housing for the recent and future influx (funny how all the politicians talk of a ‘housing shortage’ without mentioning how it came about – let in a million or two and you run out of houses. Simples.)

        Like

  2. 2
    (I don't need no doctor) says:

    So that’s eight tories.
    So how loyal labour MPs want an in/out referendum.

    Like

  3. 4
    Kevin T says:

    Biggest laugh today was the credulous tit of a Tory backbencher quoting Pitt the Younger and claiming David Cameron would change Europe by himself.

    If he would kindly contact me, I would like to sell him Battersea Bridge for a surprisingly affordable sum.

    Like

  4. 6
    Bewildebeest says:

    Wow, shock horror Guido. Different people have different opinions at different times. Who’d have thought it ? Have you lost your purpose ?

    Like

    • 24
      Anonymous says:

      He will be losing his right to live here if we do leave the EU.

      Isn’t our leader on here a Plastic Paddy?

      Like

      • 36
        CarryHole is a Dismal Hunt says:

        The U.K. and Ireland have had a free travel agreement since way before the days of the EUSSR.

        Like

        • 75
          Kebab time gives me a boner says:

          Unfortunately it’s all one way traffic.

          Never mind Romanians and Bulgarians, send the fucking bogtrotters back.

          Like

          • I Remember You Hoo says:

            You will find, that until we leave the EU, we have no control at all, over who can come, stay or leave. We can’t even deport known terrorists FFS.

            Like

  5. 7
    Misternedderry says:

    I still think this is all a cynical trap to keep us in the EU and to try to stem the rise of UKIP.

    So what would happen in the unlikely event that:
    (A) Cameron wins a general election in 2015 then
    (B) renegotiates our position in the EU then
    (C) we have a referendum on that position in 2017 and then
    (D) We vote “IN” and then
    (E) our renegotiated position in a new treaty is then vetoed by other EU member states?

    It took 10 years for the Constitutional Treaty to become finally ratified as the Lisbon Reform Treaty and this next Treaty will be a LOT more contentious than that one.

    There is no way in hell that Cameron can renegotiate a new treaty in which we will get our demands met AND have it ratified by all 26 other EU member state’s governments by the time of a referendum in 2017. That is OBVIOUS. To even pretend to suggest otherwise is to treat the British electorate with contempt and treat us like fools.

    So will he delay the referendum indefinitely until his renegotiation is ratified into a treaty by all other member states?

    Or will we have a referendum on a renegotiated position which could still be vetoed by these other states? In which case the ONLY safe vote would be for “OUT”.

    Or IF his negotiation fails entirely? What then? Will he support withdrawal? Or is all this a big cynical trap to keep us all IN a Federal EU? Claiming that after we vote in, and after our renegotiated position is then vetoed by another member state, that we will be stuck in, with EUrophiles claiming that we voted to stay in, so we are going to stay in, no matter what!

    We need the answers to those serious and pertinent questions before the next election.

    Like

    • 12
      Kevin T says:

      Yes, exactly, and Cameron has already refused point blank several times to answer.

      Like

    • 17

      … to treat the British electorate with contempt and treat us like fools.

      Thought that was the number one objective of politics in the UK?

      Like

      • 77
        Get another gagwriter says:

        Come clean Cat. Does that mean that you think there are other objectives if this is only number one?

        Like

        • 88
          Schrödinger's cat is a pseudo-intellectual twat says:

          no comment required

          Like

        • 99

          For sure!

          Lining one’s own pockets is arguably an even greater objective. The only problem is that one might be inclined to be too modest. Not take enough. You never know how long you are going to be in this game.

          Therefore the attitude contained in the original comment emboldens the undecided to use a large shovel instead of a tea spoon.

          Like

    • 18
      Anonymous says:

      If Cameron wins due to a miracle, he will say two years is not enough to negotiate such a big issue. He will say he can only give a vote after the next general election.

      It is just catch 24.

      If Cameron is serious it can be done before the end of the year.

      Like

    • 33
      Revolutionary concern says:

      Europe is revolting.

      Like

    • 98
      Cynical-old-bag says:

      Cameron has finally realised that UKIP could beat them, so he has to offer a few crumbs to the populous, to make us think that he might have our best interests at heart.

      As far as the EU goes, I think other countries may make the decision to leave well before the UK does.

      Like

  6. 8
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    We are in Europe, whether we like it or not, and to leave it now is like sticking that mad auntie of ours in a home and forgetting about her. But that mad auntie might come back and haunt us, White Cliffs of Dover and all that. Keep your friends close, but potential enemies closer, etc.and all that, I say.

    Like

    • 14
      Kevin T says:

      You would sooner put the Mad Auntie in charge of your household and pay her a small fortune for the privilege?

      Like

      • 38
        EU? In out shake it all about says:

        Anything, as long as she doesn’t come and bomb my Swansea again.

        Dylan (Bob) thinking of Swansea for the hundreth Thomas birth this year,

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-21123462

        Like

      • 101
        Cynical-old-bag says:

        We did put “mad auntie” in charge, and we did pay him a small fortune for the privilege.

        Remember Gordon Brown?

        Like

        • 115
          EU? In out shake it all about says:

          Maggie Thatch was bonkers, remember.

          CHRIST! We should have done a better job in getting a first wimmin PM in Britland. Marge Beckett could have been PM, if it wasn’t for the Thatch, mysogynist brit electorate thinking afterwards. She is Brill, Beckett is.

          Like

    • 31
      CarryHole is a Dismal Hunt says:

      The Underpant Gnomes plan seems sensible compared to your one.

      Like

      • 143
        Zurich care home for retired gnomes says:

        We need to have more detail on the terribly cunning Underpant Gnomes plan.

        Like

    • 51
      Intelligent Person says:

      Please do not fall into the usual thicko trap of confusing Europe, a continent with a number of countries, with the EU, a failing socialist political construction.

      Like

      • 91
        EU? In out shake it all about says:

        EU is helping ex-iron curtains to find a “middle ground”. Don’t forget that, while you sup your tea and eat your crumpets, in Tunnbridge Wells, with your liitle inglunder blinkers on, with only 22 miles of sea near you from such.

        Cutting enough for you?

        Like

  7. 10
    god, i hate rachel reeves says:

    Anyone seen this Goebbels-lite poster designed by a primary kid and about as well-researched

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=273854752743311&set=a.273854656076654.65408.231228143672639&type=1&theater

    Like

  8. 11

    Ah! But that was two years ago. The situation has changed enormously since then and you have to take that into account.

    In two year’s time, it may well have changed enormously again…

    Like

  9. 13
    • 25
      EU? In out shake it all about says:

      Think you have got to be one of these sad modern ones that is a member of facelessbook to see those pics, and be logged on.

      Left it a year ago, since I became ponced orf by all these people wanting me to be their “friends”, who I wouldn’t look twice at if I passed them on a road.

      Like

      • 137
        C'unt Appreciation Society says:

        given your ridiculous ramblings its amazing anyone bothered trying in the first place

        Like

  10. 19
    I like this ad says:

    Like

  11. 22
    Jen The Blue says:

    I agree those Tories are vile hypocrites – or MPs as the are known for short.

    I agree Cameron will come back with some insignificant concessions which he will spin as substantial.

    However, the fact it has upset the Bilderbergers so much is great fun in itself. Common Purpose will be having group apoplexy.

    I see Cameron being deposed now for this piece of clear heresy.

    Like

    • 50
      EU / G8 Communique says:

      ‘That is Bolshevic propaganda. That is the form in which it clothes itself and lives, using falsehood and slander and chicacanery, so as to make the nations suspicious of one another and hate one another, thus spreading a general spirit of unrest; because the Bolshevics know so well that they can never bring the Communist idea to triumph except in an age that is distracted and sceptical’
      – Dr. Joseph Gobbels / Communism with the Mask off / 1935

      Like

    • 64
      Julia Middleton, CEO Common Purpose says:

      Not at all, this tactic is entirely in line with our subtle strategies and what our members are trained to do. He will get another gold star.

      Like

    • 110
      Cynical-old-bag says:

      How do you see this? Can you really see into the future?

      It’ll never happen.

      Like

  12. 25
    Anonymous says:

    Private Eye has copied your story about Rubbisher and his pianos.

    Like

  13. 28

    Bailiff: All rise. They are open!

    Like

  14. 29
    the old dufflebag says:

    many want us out…many want us in…no common opinion says who amongst our political elite is best placed to espouse the ideal solution we could all allign behind because there isn’t such a solution out there…never can be …never will be…such is the nature of our well established democracy.

    pragmatic steady progress down a road of revision to suit our national interest will be naturally resisited by the largest Eu players … they are irriitated at the very thought we should expect things they are completely powerless to obtain themselves…this applies more to the euro currency members than any others but the contention that they are all wanting ever greater union is not supported by the general public across europe … that reality might be the key to achieving a resolution/compromise coincidence of interests.

    the german opinion is probably that they are fed up of being expected to support the lame ducks of europe as the most steady player and again in that
    lays the distinct possiblity that frau merkel will want to keep the uk in rather than out.

    the french position is weakening by the week as they face a serious tanking across the board so whilst they are a big player they are increasingly seen to be surviving by scale rather than by guile.

    Like

  15. 32
    K T Price says:

    I hold an in / out referendum a couple of times a night.

    Like

  16. 35
    Ed Moribund says:

    Vote for me and I’ll make sure we will continue to be able to import more Labour voters from Bulgaria and Romania.

    Like

  17. 40
    Other news says:

    How did Hoon do today ?

    Like

  18. 45
    wangi says:

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/01/23/euve-been-framed/

    “Stop the World Scotland Wants to Get On … it’s beginning to look as if independence might be the only way for Scotland to stay in the European Union. David Cameron’s UKIP-driven European folly looks more and more like a disaster for the NO campaign.

    By Ruth Wishart

    The refrain has been constant from all the unionist parties and the No campaign. A two year lead-in to an Independence referendum would be de-stabilising. It would give potential inward investors pause for second thought. It would bring further uncertainty generally to already uncertain economic times. In short, it would be a costly distraction and a piece of irrelevant self indulgence.

    Fast forward to January 23rd 2013 and a UK Prime Minister prepared to have a five year lead in to a referendum about whose purpose he can’t be clear, on a question he can’t yet determine, based on negotiations which haven’t begun and show little sign of doing so.”

    Like

  19. 47
    Anonymous says:

    Merkel has said she’ll listen to UK’s wishes in a bid to stop us leaving the EU.

    Cameron 2
    Millibland 0

    Like

    • 69
      EU / G8 Communique says:

      ‘Nothing could be further from our minds than the wish to prescribe for other nations and their governments or even to counsel them. We do not mix up in their domestic affairs. We only see the dangers that threaten Europe and we raise our voices in warning so that the magnitude of those dangers may be recognised’
      – Dr. Joseph Gobbels / Communism with the mask off 1935

      Like

    • 70
      Angela says:

      Yes. I will listen and give them the respect that I think they deserve.

      Like

    • 105
      Cynical-old-bag says:

      Merkel has an election coming up.

      She will do whatever she has to do to stay in power.

      Like

  20. 49
    Polly Pot says:

    My sheets are soaked through. Soaked, I tell you!
    Thank Ed Miliband for having the good metropolitan sense to take the Guardian’s stance.

    Little people don’t know anything.

    Like

  21. 54
    Adolf Burley MP says:

    Et tu Guido?

    Does this mean your not going to post my press releases any more?

    Like

  22. 58

    Perversion is a way to deny the abyss of the human subjectivity, for which as Sade shows us, a body of knowledge, la philosophie du boudoir, is needed to enable this enactment. Sade thus reveals how knowledge and academia itself can be structured as a perversion: the dogma of there is but brain activity is not an innocent story.

    Oh! Sorry! Didn’t see you come in. You were asking?

    Like

  23. 59
  24. 63
    When I was a lad the poor were skinny says:

    Children from poor backgrounds are more likely to be overweight, a minister has claimed, blaming “an abundance of bad food” for the situation.

    Like

  25. 66
    Anonymous says:

    I won’t hold my breath.

    In about 5 years time….

    if the tories win the election:
    if the tories actually do have a referendum:
    if the result is a resounding “out” (which it would be) :
    if the tories decide to abide by the result:
    if they have enough balls to stand up to the EU:
    if international lawyers don’t stop the process:
    if they don’t water-down the “out” action to the point of pointlessness:
    then maybe we’ll get out.

    There are too many variables, this’ll just go the same way as Labour’s promise. The tories will start to see nearer the referendum time that the result would be a resounding “out”, and they’ll chicken-out and use the same logic as Labour did, eg:

    “we changed the name, technically it’s not the “EU” anymore, we got the Germans to change it to the “European Union Federal State”, that’s not the same, so the promise is no longer relevant”

    It’s bullshit; it’ll never happen, the only reason Cameron’s “promising” this is to get votes back from UKIP in 2015, then Cameron’ll just piss all over his promises.

    If he really meant it then he’d hold the referendum now; there’s no need to wait 5 fucking years, just do it now you fucking spineless sack of shit.

    Like

    • 81
      EU / G8 Communique says:

      ‘Truly a case of methodical insanity, which has for its aim the wilful destruction of the nations and their civilisation and the substitution of the kiss of Judas as a fundamental principal of public life.’
      Adapted from Dr Joseph Gobbels / Communism with the mask off – 1935

      Like

    • 111
      Anonymous says:

      I don’t really want to wait for Cameron to have “discussions” with the EU about trying to take back a handful of powers; that’s missing the whole point.

      The EU as an institution is corrupt, costs us too much money, and its whole approach is one that’s constantly acting against democracy; their whole ethos is wrong, and you’ll never change that.

      The only thing to do is to just get the fuck out, and setup a new international free trade organisation which can include European countries, and China/India etc. Why only have free trade with Europe? Why not make it international and let any country sign-up to it? There’s no need to get rid of democracy just in order to have a free trade area.

      Once people start thinking about it, they’ll realise that the EU itself has absolutely no reason to exist; it doesn’t serve any useful purpose at all; the world won’t end just because the EU suddenly ceases to exist, in fact if it ceases to exist then our trade will improve massively because we’d setup such free-trade agreements across the whole planet, red-tape will disappear, insane laws will disappear, and we’ll finally have our own respective countries back.

      All we need to have is a free trade agreement with anyone who wants to trade with us. Politicians make things out to be more complex than they need to be; this is REALLY simple; get the fuck out, and the whole world will end up much better off and we’ll get our freedom back.

      The Germans know that once the cat’s out of the bag and people come to the realisation of “hmm, yes, they’re right, the EU IS pointless and damaging” then the EU as an institution will collapse and cease to exist virtually overnight, then the Germans and the French lose their “power”, and it’s their own power which they don’t want to lose, the German arguments have nothing to do with protecting the economies etc, it’s solely about protecting their own power over the continent.

      Fuck the Germans, they lost the war, and I have no intention of letting them keep power over the continent via some fucking pointless institution.

      Like

      • 121
        unrealistic expectations says:

        Quote…’The Germans know that once the cat’s out of the bag and people come to the realisation of “hmm, yes, they’re right, the EU IS pointless and damaging” then the EU as an institution will collapse and cease to exist virtually overnight’

        Same old stuff …unrealistic and not going to happen regardless of public opinion..too far down the beneficial path for the ‘hangers on’ in europe to
        imagine ever happening even if the euro collapsed. The Eu as an institution is here to stay…period

        Like

        • 141
          Anonymous says:

          I’m fucked if I’m going to vote for anybody who wants to keep the EU; I’m sure more people across the whole of Europe will come to that conclusion too fairly soon, and in time each individual country will have governments that are led by (or at least heavily influenced by) UKIP equivalents (apart from Germany and France of course, because they’d be losing the power).

          It’s the emperor’s new clothes; once people see that the EU has no useful purpose, yet drains their country of funds and freedoms, they’ll all point and laugh.

          It just takes that one little boy (hopefully in this case the UK) to stand up and point saying “look everybody! we didn’t need this, we ended up infinitely better off without it, there never was any point behind it in the first place, you fucking morons!”

          Like

          • green ink says:

            you are right many will think like that….many already do but getting to a situation whereby the structure is ditched is an non-starter and won’t happen. The newer members are going to cling to membership as it is the rolling road to economic development they are incapable of achieving on their own.

            Like

        • 148
          Anonymous says:

          My hope/expectation is that, in time, once we leave, all the other net contributors to the EU (apart from Germany and France) will also leave citing identical reasons (ie “actually, there’s no point being in it, is there? we can do much better on our own”).

          That’ll leave Germany, France, Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and the poverty-stricken eastern european countries as the sole remaining members.

          Germany and France will then realise that they can’t bankroll a dozen other countries themselves, and so the EU will simply cease to be.

          We can live in hope.

          Like

          • green ink says:

            dream on Anon

            Like

          • green ink says:

            To think that the serious players in the Eu want us to leave is deluded.

            The influential members know the £ gives us a clear economic bridge between the $ the Euro and the Renminbi. They also know we have the capacity and capability to attract foreign investment with an increasingly competitive corporation tax regime. The fact that we do not have the Euro means we could walk away and thrive but business sees no benefit in us doing so and having us in the club is better than out of it.

            The germans know its crucial we remain members otherwise their own role within the evolving Eu will be diminsihed and their power to alter things to suit their own ambitions severely restricted if they become the ‘stand alone’ money bucket.

            I suspect the net contributors are actually pleased we are taking the flak for bringing up the issues that we see as being necessary to tackle whilst they continue their ‘closer union’ rhetoric. For closer union read control of budgets because again doubtlessly that is the thing that worries them most..the uncontrollable economic incontinence that their continuing concerted ‘union’ has produced.

            Like

        • 160
          Anonymous says:

          USSR: 69 years. I bet that they said it was “here to stay”.

          EC or EU is 50 year old in 5 years time. So will be in its waning years. Every uncontrolled, unfettered large government has self-destructed in the past.

          As communication and travel times have shrunk the time to destruction shrinks. The EU experiment is over.

          Like

      • 123
        David Newsome says:

        I really couldn’t have put it better myself. Bang on.

        Like

      • 124
        Lou Scannon says:

        Exactly so.

        
        

        Dave, stop spouting this codswallop about ‘negotiations’.
        You cannot negotiate with the Devil.

        Like

        • 146
          I Remember You Hoo says:

          Cameron can’t negotiate anything period, without invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. It is the only mechanism that is legally binding on all parties.

          Without invoking Article 50 ( a countries intention to leave ) and Cameron NEVER will, any negotiation is meaningless and not worth the paper it is written on.

          Like

  26. 80
    Jimmy says:

    “Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them… well, I have others.”

    Marx

    Like

  27. 83
    ROFL says:

    Europe. Can you see what it is yet?

    Like

    • 114
      EU / G8 Communique says:

      ‘There is no longer any political question at issue here. This thing cannot be judged or estimated by political rules or principles. It is iniquity under a political mask. It is not something to be brought before the bar of world history but rather something that has to be dealt with by the judicial administration of each country.’

      Like

  28. 85
    From the BBC says:

    Like

    • 103
      Casual Observer says:

      It was nice that they gave Farage the Westminster backdrop. Not sure I have seen that before. Must be getting serious for UKIP. :-D

      Like

    • 107
      EU? In out shake it all about says:

      It is funny that it is only the ex-brit empiror classes want out of europe, rather than the man on the street us Labour types?

      Love Europe, and love we are having sensible policies from Europe, rather than these stuck in the past tory numbnuts, trying to hold onto power in Britain by dysfunctional warped fun and tactics, keeping most of Britain poor.

      Like

    • 136
      old SHEP says:

      @4, mins 20 secs in, BBC plonker attempts to disrupt, and shows his total lacking of any understanding the situation.

      Like

  29. 87
    old SHEP says:

    Here we go again courtesy of BBC propaganda unit- backlash. 30% to 50% ?, that must have been a great empirically based evidence study, not sure I believe that people were taking temperature readings in Bolivian mountains in the 1950’s either, but hey, just call me an old cynic.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21163386

    Like

    • 156
      Anonymous says:

      Soot.

      Nothing to do with temperature. Seen any snow men recently with coal eyes? I wonder who up wind of them burns anything?

      Like

  30. 94
    Tosspot says:

    Democracy is the Achilles Heel of the European Union

    Like

  31. 95
    Pootal says:

    At what point will one’s anus become property of the state?

    Like

  32. 96
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    It is a veritable winter’s post card here in West Wales at the monent. We have had eight inches of steady snow in the last 24 hours, and now the sun has come out, blue skies and everything.

    Quite pagan beautiful it really is. Ey Vicar?

    Like

  33. 118
    hank the cat says:

    Thank you for that vote of confidence Highway, the twat is one of the ASBO famlies that was shipped to wales in a container, local councils got a backhander for taking them

    Like

  34. 128
    David Newsome says:

    Cameron is a man without honour. His words are empty. He will soon be consigned to the dustbin of history. If it were not for Gordon Brown he would be the worst PM in my lifetime.

    Like

  35. 129
    The Libor party says:

    Youth unemployment, on the claimant count measure, is now lower than at the election: Down from 422,935 in May 2010 to 407,980— Matthew Hancock (@matthancockmp) January 23, 2013

    Like

  36. 140
    Jimmy says:

    Tony Blair has spotted where Butch got his (let’s call them) tactics:

    Like

  37. 157
    Anonymous says:

    Yes, but it would be so helpful if you made that in any way intelligible……

    Like

  38. 159
    dame edna ever'ard says:

    stiil, they’ve all got 4 more years to think about it
    way to go
    david cameron – the people’s friend

    Like

  39. 163
    Rule Brittania says:

    Free us from this European tyranny. Free us from the narcisistic sociopaths who want to use Europe for their own ends and not for the interest of the British people. Free us from the Eurosycophants who wish to completely destroy the British way of life.

    We will sell Europe our goods but we will never sell Europe our sovereignty nor will we sell her the soul of our democracy. Our heart does not belong to Europe it belongs to Britain and we will once again stand as a proud Nation.

    Now we must fight to make our Nation great again.

    Like

    • 172
      Lady Britain says:

      what happened to fighting them on the beaches … towels at two paces … in the skys … send in rayanair … we’ll never surrender …

      calm down dear its only a political bun fight not WW3

      Like

  40. 164
    Mr Waffle says:

    “let me be clear”

    “fundamental questions”

    “lack of competitiveness”

    “fairness for all”

    “rigorously”

    Can someone pass the sickbay please.

    Like

  41. 166
  42. 167

    I thought Burley was sound.

    Like

  43. 170
    Jimmy's Trip Down Memory Lane says:

    ‘If re-negotiations are successful, it is the policy of the Labour Party that, in view of the unique importance of the decision, the people should have the right to decide the issue through a General Election or a Consultative Referendum. If these two tests are passed, a successful renegotiation and the expressed approval of the majority of the British people, then we shall be ready to play our full part in developing a new and wider Europe.”

    [Let's Work Together: Labour Party Manifesto, General Election February 1974]

    Like

  44. 174
    Mark Wouters. says:

    hello,
    Its easy t blame the europeans for all our ills, but the truth is that the British have themselves to blame ,yes!, the Monarchy with the aid of the Civil service have caused this blight upon us, now ,through their dithering and uselessness they once again reap the economic death upon us,they must learn not to interfere where they know nowt,The British Monarchy must Go and Go now!!!! so must their tools of Self destruction the Tories!!!!!!!!!!.
    we Need a Leftwing Republic a socialist Republic,NOW!!!!!!!!!

    Like

  45. 176
    Anonymous says:

    UK R.I.P.

    Like

  46. 181
    VERITAS says:

    Camerons speech today was a first step,but only a first step.We will now see the full force of the Establishment including senior civil servants and the BBC in an orchestrated attempt to prevent an referendum,so defying the will of the majority of UK citezens

    Like

  47. 186
    fitzfitz says:

    Tony Baldry : surely too busy in CHINA to spend time on Parish business ? …

    Like

  48. 187
    Anonymous says:

    So with Dave it is Party first Country second .

    Like

  49. 188

    Hi! I’m at work surfing around your blog from my new iphone 4! Just wanted to say I love reading your blog and look forward to all your posts! Carry on the fantastic work!

    Like


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VOTER-RECALL
Find out more about PLMR


Austrian Chancellor Werner Faymann on Cameron’s refusal to pay the £1.7 billion EU bill by December 1st:

“Well, then he’s gonna pay on December 2nd”



Mycroft says:

Have you read the last bit of Animal Farm?

You know where the animals are looking through the Farmhouse window?

My TV screen was that window at lunch-time today.

Be careful, the sudden self-congratulatory tone, the slightly pudgy outline of indulgence and you become exactly what you should despise.

The jolly face of the Quisling Cameron poses for your camera has mesmerised and deceived you, you who were once not so deceived.

You were no firebrand, you were a damp squib in my opinion, sorry.

You need a damned good kick up the ahse!


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