January 23rd, 2013

Flint Flops Over In/Out Referendum

Shadow Climate Change Secretary Caroline Flint had an unadulterated nightmare on the Daily Politics this afternoon. Here’s what she said before Ed’s ‘no’ shocker:

I can’t tell you what the situation is going to be at the next election, two and half years before when there are these changes going on in Europe.

And after Ed’s PMQs bombshell:

Andrew Neil : So we will go into the 2015 election with the Conservatives promising an in/out referendum and Labour not?

Caroline Flint: As it stands today that is correct.

Roll on the next four years…

Vid via @LiarPoliticians

387 Comments

  1. 1

    Today?

    She means this hour surely?

  2. 2
    Arse says:

    She’s quite bummable for a Labour MP.

  3. 3
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    Yeh, shove Cameron’s gargellings onto Labour, and London tory media spin it that it is Labour’s fault!

    Give me fucking blasted ‘king strength!

  4. 4
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    And fuck off Neil, you plastic beeb bought tory jock!

  5. 5

    Here is one to watch if things like The Law of Unintended Consequences interests you:

    Tax advice not secret like legal counsel, UK court rules:

    http://reut.rs/145h8qe

    This is going to be fun…

  6. 6
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    Flint is a fine filly, and the tories are jelous, with their female bulldogs.

  7. 7
    misterned says:

    The only bright part of a day in which the mainstream media appear to have swallowed Camerons blatant lies about any intention to hold an impossible referendum in 2017 are seeing the labour party in complete and total disarray over it.

    There is no way Cameron can renegotiate our relationship, + have that codified in a treaty + get EVERY other one of the 26 other member states to ratify that treaty giving us what we want, by 2017. So what would we be voting on?

    Will we vote in a referendum, the result of which could be overturned by any other member state vetoing the treaty?

    Or will the referendum be postponed until the treaty can be ratified? In other words, postponed indefinitely?

    Either way we will not get a referendum to return OUR Sovereign powers.

  8. 8

    I wouldn’t – even with yours.

  9. 9
    Plato says:

    To be fair, neither party’s position makes much sense.

  10. 10
    Putr1d Labour ruined my Country says:

    Finally we may be able to escape the eu tyranny?

  11. 11
    Putr1d Labour ruined my Country says:

    She’d be alright if she was gagged!

  12. 12
    genghiz the kahn says:

    Flint MP needs re-education. No EU Referendum Good, EU Referendum Bad. Baa, Baa, Baa…Isn’t that right Ed?

    The trouble is that this afternoon Vaz has found his way to the TV studios telling Ed that a In Out Referendum is a good idea.

    Balls has been very, very quiet today, has he lost his voice?

  13. 13
    Anonymous says:

    Like Dave, Ed also wants to stay in the EU

  14. 14
    Lol says:

    I misread the title the first time as Flint flops out. Worth a look out of curiosity I thought :)

  15. 15
    The BBC causes serious mental illness says:

    Interesting point being made that EU issue is being used to distract from issue of economy. Guess this may confirm that the primary gambit for making us ‘love’ EU is going to be all the economic arguments.

    Problem is though, putting the referendum question off to the next election is going to generate more uncertainty than actually just having it, proving the economic issues are not really an issue.

    Markets seems to be Ok with the speech today.

    Worth remembering that propaganda cannot control what people love at a point in time, but they can control what people what people fear and to what extent they fear that.

  16. 16
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    I don’t trust Cameron to deliver. He’s just deferring.

    Why not a referendum NOW so we can at least stop the next massive wave of immigration from Eastern Europe?

    No good shutting the stable door etc. etc.

  17. 17
    Plato says:

    Precisely so. The arguments will become so convaluted and nuanced over the coming years that the PM at the time (whoever it is) will be able to do exactly what they want.

    Same as…

  18. 18
    zoom says:

    And baqgged.

  19. 19
    Casual Observer says:

    If Flint could be persuaded across to UKIP, that would seriously help their image.

  20. 20

    Caroline ‘Frisbee’ Flint. The lowest of low flyers.

    ‘Window dressing’ for an Amsterdam shopfront.

  21. 21

    That may reveal more about you than it does about her… ;-)

  22. 22
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Balls has been castrated. Where have you been recently?

  23. 23
    Jimmy says:

    Remind me, which party just flip flopped on this? I could have sworn it was the tories.

  24. 24
    Lol says:

    Von Rumpy has got no top lip. Never noticed before. F’ucking wierdo.

  25. 25
    Labour...menadacious expedient sociopaths all of 'em says:

    shes a lightweight airbrain

  26. 26
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Low flyer? Practically a hover mower Bill.

  27. 27
    Lol says:

    Way-hey

  28. 28
    Plato says:

    The original case for joining the EU was that it would improve our economy?

    Now the case is that we have to stay in the EU because it f’ucked our economy so much we can’t do anything else?

  29. 29
    Northerners go home. says:

    London Tory media ?

    What branch of the Liebour party are you from.

  30. 30
    Dr Feelygood says:

    Oh dear, we seem to have a few anger management issues. Have a nice cup of tea and a sit down, you’ll feel much better.

  31. 31
    Lol says:

    Only some of them c’unty.

  32. 32
    Labour...filth...just filth says:

    hes got the reshuffle shits

  33. 33
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    At least you have to have a starting position to flip flop.

    Labour has no position on anything.

  34. 34

    Now, now, Mr Lol.

    You know jolly well that I can’t mention breasts here without exercising a certain someone with a tipster-type handle.

  35. 35
    The BBC causes serious mental illness says:

    Just pointing out the current propaganda line not an endorsing.

    When it gets warmer, the benefits of holidaying in Europe and freedom to travel will be made. Obviously defeated by the counter argument that UK destinations should be better supported coming out, and that there should be no additional hassle from adding an extra few minutes at passport control.

    Everyone is being very quiet about CFP though…

  36. 36
    Jimmy says:

    I’ve seen law firms marketing themselves on this precise basis: i.e. we can keep our advice secret, accountants can’t.

  37. 37
    Jimmy says:

    Seriously, how long before the latest gimmick unravels? A week? A month?

  38. 38

    In the department they called her Lynx. She thought it a compliment on her cat like features.
    In reality they meant her skills were like the helicopter. Not much good above treetop level.

    She was also known as Ryde. Which she again thought meant a ‘good ride.’
    They meant Ryde as in the hovercraft port. Hovercraft being her ‘low flier’ name.

    Mandelson used to initial her in at meetings as CF and add….’Can’t Fly.’

  39. 39
    Andy Gray says:

    David Icke can probably explain that for you.

  40. 40
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    The left only exist on anger. It’s their motivating force.

    When was the last time you met a happy and contented socialist?

  41. 41
    m says:

    apocryphal observation I assume Q

  42. 42
    Well it's a thought says:

    Camoron won’t deliver, his cast iron will get in the way, I’am just wondering if Clegg decides he will throw his toys out of the pram and force an early election, just to upset Camorons time table for lieing.

  43. 43
    Ed Moribund says:

    well..give me a few days to get some focus group data in and talk to my union bosses and I’ll chnage my mind to ..

    Oh..you meant the Tories

  44. 44
    VERITAS says:

    One of the only judgement calls that McMental got right was that Flint weas a lightweight she has traded on her supposed good lucks all her political career,her brain is empty/

  45. 45
    Barry O'Bummer President says:

    Will have to have a word with Cameron, appears to be straying off message

  46. 46
    Well it's a thought says:

    Jeez H, that would put thousands off the voting for UKIP.

  47. 47
    Dumb Nation. says:

    What a bunch of losers Labour are. How can Labour use the slogan ‘One Nation’ when it is happy to be just another nation within the grip of the failed EUSSR? Labour are a joke and not a funny one.

  48. 48
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Truth is labour have fallen into disarray over this today. militwit says no to a referendum and flint has sort of followed that line – but a ‘senior labour party spokesman tonight is putting out the line that this is ‘only labour’s position for now’ so presumably they’re thinking they might change their minds if their poll ratings plummet and vaz has openly welcomed a referendum.

    Whatever , they’ve projected a very strong and lasting image of headless chickens running aimlessly around the farmyard.

  49. 49
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    SORD ORF Canvey Island – Dr Feelgood? My arse.

    Andrew Neil is another beeb pervert, at least sixteen – I can see it in his eyes. The dirty jockstrap.

  50. 50

    It is probably true that Western Europe would have gone socialist after the war if Soviet behaviour had not given it too grim a visage. Soviet Communism and Socialism are not yet sufficiently distinguished in many minds.

    Nye Bevan

    Not much has changed that way in over half a century really…

  51. 51

    If you walk around the Dam square side roads the pricing structure changes. By the time you get to the Flint windows you’re either very drunk, stoned, skint, or looking for some sort of mulchy, rusty experience..

  52. 52
    Court list says:

    The Crown Court

    at Southwark

    Daily List for Thursday 24 January 2013 at English Grounds, off Battlebridge Lane

    ——————————————————————————–

    Court 3 – sitting at 10:00 AM

    BEFORE THE HONOURABLE MR JUSTICE SWEENEY (2)

    For Mention
    T20127076

    HUHNE Christopher

    PRYCE Vasiliki

    Order made under Contempt of Court Act 1981

  53. 53

    Agree completely. That is exactly how it will go.

  54. 54
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Well I have to agree and say it probaly is a gimmick.

    If Cameron were serious then the ref. would be called well before the next election.

    However the doesn’t let the worse than useless Labout Party off the hook, does it?

  55. 55
    Well it's a thought says:

    No guns to ban Barry, all those guns being bought, can’t you get any kids to hold your hand, you looked positively turd like when you did.

  56. 56
    Fuck the EU says:

    Yeah to be fair he was probably photographed in mid shape-shift

  57. 57
    Well it's a thought says:

    How can we have one nation when the country has many nations here all wanting to go their own way.

  58. 58
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    At least she hasn’t got a teeth problem, with that underbite that tory ladies tend to have, that their inbred dads could only love.

  59. 59
    David (long grass) Cameron says:

    Actually its not as complicated as that, I was just hoping everyone would forget about it

  60. 60
    Moby Dick says:

    Will anybody be on a pension by the time 2017 comes?

  61. 61
    Down the rabbit hole says:

    Is there some sort of network of slime channels similar to the London Underground which connects Vaz to various TV studios and media outlets ?

  62. 62
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Vaz would openly welcome anything if it advanced his career.

  63. 63
    skorpian de rooftrouser says:

    Just had a look at Flints CV never has a Job in her life, always the non jobs policy officer etc. And it made me chuckle her previous husband was deported to Tunisia

  64. 64
    Mike Sugar says:

    This far down the list it’s unlikely I’ll be read, but here goes:

    For the record ex-Tory, and staying that way if Cam is in charge, wavering towards UKIP for GE, but 100% UKIP for EU elections.

    Flint was totally wrong-footed by her incompetent leader. She played the party card prior to Millibands monumental ball drop, and bravely soldiered on. Cannot stand her politics, but reaaly admire her grit. Would love to see her kick her boss below the belt – physically or politically

  65. 65
    Old Tory Bigot says:

    Oh the YouTube idiot is back. Thought he’d gone quiet for a bit there – like when the noisy neighbours turn the music off at 2am only to resume it at increased volume at 4am.

  66. 66
    O/T Guardian publishing c-word shocker says:

    No idea what has been going on, but the Guardian is putting un-redacted expletives into print ?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jan/23/mary-beard-website-abusive-closes

    Don’t watch QT, but sounds like Labour activists got on her case at the web site which is now shut down.

  67. 67
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    And a message to beeb weather ladies from the eeb, and that bloke from West Wales that claimed that I was not from Carmarthenshire/Sir Gar, and thinks I am from Birmingham!?!, it is still taking down with snow here, and we are up to ten inches, without a penis extension bought from a sex omline shop!

    Live on a bit of a hill on a bit of a mainroad, that was well salted – well engines and wheels are revving and spinning trying to go up it at the moment.

    Bring back the Fish I say, he was more accurate. Weather supercomputer? MY ARSE!

  68. 68
    Ambrose says:

    The thing about headless chicken is that they can quickly be turned into something tasty, nutritious and appetising.

    Not obvious associations for the Labour party. Do Lemmings still volunteer to jump off cliffs?

  69. 69
    Tnuc a S'eloc Yrrah says:

    Neither party want’s to leave, it’s a re-run of 1975. Even the talking points are the same.

    http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm#front

  70. 70
    Down the rabbit hole says:

    Nah that would just be window dressing.

  71. 71
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Well what we need is for the labour party to appoint gordon as their pro eu tsar to argue the case for staying in the EU.

    He after all was the PM who kept sneaking into Brussels after dark to keep signing us up to ever closer union and those treaties.

  72. 72
    Jimmy says:

    I can’t agree with that. Only the most deluded could now claim that the command economy was anything other than an unmitigated disaster. It was this demonstrable failure that has allowed social democrats to make our peace with capitalism, with only occasional ankle biting from the lunatic fringe.

  73. 73
    Old Blue Eyes says:

    Actually I thought she was looking rather worse for wear but if bumming is what give you pleasure I suppose it doesn’t matter much.

  74. 74
    T20127076 says:

    How did this case go today ?

  75. 75
    Alex Salmond dismanteler of the Svottish legal system and other unique features says:

    Look if I can get awy with using the word “Independence” when wishing to embed Scotland even more firmly into the EU then anything is possible !

  76. 76
    Diane Fartbott says:

    Se’s just window dressing, unlike I.

  77. 77
    Labour Lemming says:

    Me me me !

  78. 78
    Wooden nickel meets real life says:

    Another reason not to vote Liebour, they can’t talk to or trust the people, without lieing or sneaking about.

  79. 79
    Mohammad and Fatima says:

    We will thanks.

  80. 80
    Secret courts for the priviledged few says:

    This case never happened. Do you understand, never happened.

  81. 81
    Jan says:

    WHO actually will be allowed to vote in this referendum? Will all Europeans living here and the ones who will be allowed to settle from next year get a vote? All the EU has to do is persuade yet more people to move west swamping the UK with even more Eastern Europeans they’ll all vote to stay in …job sorted.We’ll be in the EU forever.

  82. 82
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    Old Tory Bigot – you knows you loves me really.

    Send me a request, and I will find it and play itm the best version that I can find.

    But one for you to be carrying on with, enj-serously-oy, my tory friend,

  83. 83
    Tosspot says:

    Not to be underestimated, she is one for the future, a surviver who knows her way around, our Caroline

  84. 84
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Suspect militwit, balls and hatty harpic are cosied up tonight over yvette’s lasagne trying to batter out some sort of policy on this ….

    shall we support a referendum?— shall we refuse a referendum?— which position will bring us most money and votes from the unions? That’s the issue!

  85. 85
    Have you idiots not worked it out yet ! says:

    So she cant tell us what the situation is going to be at the next election what with all the changes in Europe….hmmm actually thats exactly the same as what Dave is saying !

  86. 86
    I want an apology and paid damages from that stinking socialist shithole otherwise known as Edinburgh University. says:

    Typical thicks Hunts who do not know their what is their arse from their elbows. Thickos!

  87. 87
    Tachybaptus says:

    But the Labour party has not made peace with capitalism. It has made peace with capitalists — one branch of the vampire elite cooperating with another. It remains hostile to ordinary people who are just trying to make a living in the ordinary market.

    In saying this, I am not claiming that the Tories are much more virtuous, of course. Vampires are vampires, whatever colour flag they may wave before the teeth sink in.

  88. 88
    EU Watch says:

    Also a firm case for not going ahead with political union in EU.

  89. 89
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    hang on, knock on the door – some panicking grannie at the door, wanting me to shove her car up the hill in front of our house. Or is that an an excuse that she wants me to shove something else. But saying that, take the wrinkles and grey hair off, christ, she must have been a good looker. And good spunk too, at here age, to be adventuring out in this weather,

    Right, wellies on, she might have a daughter, or even a granddaughter… little things start from small, small wotsits or whatever.

    Where did I put my fucking spade!

  90. 90
    Cynical-old-bag says:

    Didn’t her secretary/aide call her and let her know before she went on air?

    Oh dear.

  91. 91
    Surgery says:

    Agreed, worse for wear – If I’ve got to listen to her harping on, she could at least have the bags under her eyes done.

  92. 92

  93. 93
    My down arrow key is stuck. says:

    I read this!

  94. 94
    Louise Mental says:

    I’m disappointed that no one has mention the fact that that terribly nice Mr. Murdoch has given me a column in spite of all the awfully tough questions I asked him, instead of Toby Young. In your face slaphead.

  95. 95

    It was the immutability of the thinking rather than outcomes to which I was referring.

    The original point was about changing minds, which will always be presented by the other side as U-turns as if that were sufficient reason for condemning it. Happens both ways, so it is not a party point.

    However, if it is ever possible to generalise, then I would say this: All politics is presentational and none is philosophically based any more.

    Someone will surely point the finger and give an isolated counterexample but it has permeated into banking and business now as well.

  96. 96
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    Swansea vee Chelski russian socialist republic of Stamford Bridge in forty minutes – to see who will reach the first Wembley cup final of the year. Swans leading two nil away already. And I heard husskies are out in West Wales, taking Swans supporters to the marvellous old viking Swansea town/city on sleighs, as we speak, some even walking through the blizzards.

    Swansea’s Townhill working class estate best, but we can ask why until we meet again, Pete.

  97. 97
    STuN says:

    Keep watching folks, theres nowt new here.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5esbUG4bslQ

  98. 98
    Tudor Birdhouse says:

    Have you not got any windows you could be licking?

  99. 99
    Not so much unprincipled as much as not having any principles (I'm Labour) says:

    In the Harriet mould.

  100. 100

    How far is too far? A good question.

    One has to know that comment will cause death or injury before ruling against it. This, though sounding vile, does not appear to meet that test.

  101. 101
    VERITAS says:

    Her PPS is even thicker than you would except!

  102. 102
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    By the way, it is not a cover, your watching it mark one version – Pete Ham from Townhill from Swansea actually wrote it, and not any yank that is delusionally thought by the tory english.

  103. 103

    How can any normal person work out what any of these beggars are saying apart from forming a conclusion that, whatever any of them say, the complete opposite is likely to be the outcome.

  104. 104
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    Pete Ham is behind the joanna keyboard, by the way tory english.

  105. 105
    Vote Labour; be ruled by Europe says:

    If Labour win the next election; we will all be kow towing to Merkal and her chums, as opposed to being controlled by the master of student politics Miliband himself.

  106. 106

    Dearly Beloved,

    May the World still be of Good Cheer, another Day has Aged, Many more Hours have Passed. The Adjournment granted. Dinner is called. May the Summonsed who seek Deliverance from that which Greatly Concerns them, be fortified sufficiently to continue their unfathomable case, and their Arraignment will resolve in some wonderful way known only to the Good Lord. We pray to God to give these dear people His Comfort and His Strength to accept their Fate, whatever that might be, again on a further day to this, and Withdraw them from the unremitting Public Spotlight into a Remote and Inaccessible place, not to be seen or heard for a Lasting Time. We pray also for the continuing Strength and Guidance of the Judge and his Assistants.

    In the name of The Father, and of The Son, and of The Holy Spirit.

    Amen.

    The Reverend Clink will not be giving a further sermon until tomorrow.

  107. 107
    T20127076 says:

    Surely his perversion case can not be more complicated than this one ?

    http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Man-fined-paedophile-placard-claim/story-17937034-detail/story.html

    Interesting application of the POA. Mitchell can probably sympathize.

  108. 108
    Case T20127076 says:

    Surely his perversion case can not be more complicated than this one ?

    http://tinyurl.com/b4rtorh

    Interesting application of the POA. Others can probably sympathize.

  109. 109
    anon. says:

    The commie apple didn’t fall far from the commie tree.

  110. 110
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    David Icke was right, as I somehow always suspected.

    As soon as he said to the beeb that what Jimmy S was up to was not right, he was shoved right out from the closet of potential beeb perves.

  111. 111
    Have you idiots not worked it out yet ! says:

    Like your famous self it would apear that they are saying we are both for and against a referendum for which the are in and out of the EU all at the same time

  112. 112
    EdButLookBalls says:

    Her thighs are tending towards the Mrs Browns circumference, knacker crackers!!

  113. 113
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    2015 when stalin has died, ok, Cameron then,

    And no of course, died politically I mean tories, before you get on your “wotsit emotional” horses.

  114. 114
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    Hysterical? Horse of the Show and Wimbledon and Twickers tickets like?

    The saddoes have no sensible answers, do they fellows from our gutters, ey us plebs?

  115. 115
    Anonymous says:

    It’s ironic. Rumpy looks like like UKIP supporter. A bit young obviously.

  116. 116
    EU? In out shake it all about says:

    Right, I am off to watch Swans playing Chelski in the snow, from Dylan Thomas City. Murdoch pirated online, norton turned up right up for viruses alert!

    Be seeing you.

  117. 117

    How did Milliband fare?

    #Gromnishambles?

  118. 118
  119. 119
    Gloone says:

    5 years time is next year or the year after.

    Oh Orwell, how right you were.

  120. 120
    Fishy says:

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

    It seems that our hero, Red Muddleband, mis-spoke at PMQ’s. It now emerges that his clear and unambiguous commitment not to allow a referendum, isn’t clear and unambiguous after all.

    Mr Muddleband was apparently telling us that this is his position now, not necessarily at the next election.

    Clearly he is waiting to see which is the best bandwagon to climb aboard.

    Now doubt the BBC will pursue this revelation

    I think Guido should go back and ask Flint what her position is now that her Dear Leader has changed his mind. You really couldn’t make it up.

    Go get her Guido.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9821587/Ed-Miliband-opposes-EU-vote-but-party-says-just-for-now.html

  121. 121
    Instant Review says:

    Please spam us with more inane youtube vids and rambling nonsense.

  122. 122
    EdButLookBalls says:

    Yvette & Batter, yeah bet her gusset is like a fish-fryers’ cuff!

  123. 123
    Anonymous says:

    Flint looked decidedly uncomfortable on the D.P.

    With the amount of spinning and backtracking by Labour handlers this afternoon, I reckon they’re running round like headless chickens.

  124. 124
    Dave - balls of steel - Cameron says:

    Job well done Dave.

    Pump out a bit of bullshit for the gullible, then off for a few days chillaxing with chums in Davos.

    Sweet.

  125. 125
    EdButLookBalls says:

    Was she Deidre Rashid in a previous incarnation?

  126. 126
    Anonymous says:

    Did Balls make himself scarce because he knew a Labour disaster was about to happen?

  127. 127
    Anonymous says:

    What a ridiculous stance- “we can’t have a referendum because there are too many ifs and we don’t know what the EU will be like in a couple of years time.”

    No-one would make a decision about anything on that basis. Labour have really tied themselves up in knots over this issue.

  128. 128
    Dave - balls of steel - Cameron says:

    Music to Dave’s ears.

    At least one gullible twat thinks that when he says that he’ll hold a referendum, he will actually hold one.

  129. 129
    Dave - balls of steel - Cameron says:

    Has she climbed to the top of the greasy pole?

  130. 130

    Balls IS a Labour disaster.

  131. 131
    Bread and butter politics says:

    The only way to the voters hearts is through their stomachs. In the current climate of austerity ,voters are interested in the economy and more specifically ‘bread & butter’ politics. The electorate is keen to know if they can have jam on their slice of Hovis. The economy is the next challenge for the Tory Party.

  132. 132
    Dave - balls of steel - Cameron says:

    If the Conservatives win the next election; we will all be kow towing to Merkel and her chums, as opposed to being controlled by the master of student politics Cameron himself.

  133. 133
    Anonymous says:

    don’t tempt me – nil nil by the way

  134. 134
    Living in 96.98 percent white Merseyside says:

    Nice slogan for Mr Salmond next year?

    SCOTLAND IN EUROPE NOT IN THE UK!

    As usual this is all about Little Englanders and to hell with the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish.

  135. 135
    they don't like it up 'em says:

    Could I respectfully ask French PM Hollande to continue making statements about the UK’s membership of the EU.
    Every time he opens his mouth, it’s another No vote in the long-awaited referendum.

  136. 136
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    don’t tempt me please – ignore the anon post by me before. Nil nil by the way.

  137. 137
    Anonymous says:

    I see the Crown office have decided that there was nothing untoward going on at Edinburgh Councils building dept. No sireeee, nothing to see here.

  138. 138
    Anonymous says:

    not much has changed over the past 2000 years.
    divisive.ness has flourished.

  139. 139
    Casual Observer says:

    Condensed QT from last week:

    More interesting to watch now, rather than then.

  140. 140
    DO NOWT DAVE EU LACKEY says:

    I’m sorry Do Nowt i’m afraid it’s

  141. 141
    FU EU says:

    Wee douggie was muddying the waters for red muddlehead even more, with a lot of help from old man snow, on c4.

  142. 142
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    by the way norton, where is this month’s cheque… : )

  143. 143
    Horse and Donkey Politics says:

    The economy is really the central challenge at present, and one which is not helped by the EU, or delaying the referendum.

    There is no ‘climate of austerity’ beyond the delusions of the BBC.

    The reality is there is a bit of a recession, a government still running up debt and not shrinking and a financial sector that has fraud firmly embedded into its business model and is not serving the needs of productive capital in the UK.

  144. 144
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    last month’s even – bluddy anti-virus fascists!

  145. 145
    DO NOWT DAVE EU LACKEY says:

    It’s also way ..

  146. 146
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    but pay it into the usual account norton, offshore, for COUGH!, pension you know.

  147. 147
    EDWARD REALLYBLAND says:

    My Pothision ish , i have no pothision

  148. 148

    Indeed. What is more, whenever they open the box, they find it stuffed with postal votes.

    I do not think Herr S ever envisaged that…

  149. 149
    Let's spam you tube referendum vids says:

    Well dear old welsh you tube spammer , looks like your Labour stooges are going to be in a big pickle vs. around 80% of the population who want out.

  150. 150
    Point of information says:

    As the snow flakes fall outside my frosted window, one muses on Flint’s shadow cabinet title: Shadow Climate Change Secretary

    May one conjecture if there is going to be a similar secretarial position created for ‘Bears $hit in the Woods’, and perhaps one to clarify the religion on the papal pontiff ?

  151. 151
    Admiral Ackbar says:

    ‘It’s a trap! And you just committed to running on a no EU referendum platform in 2015′.

  152. 152
    Global Warming Scientist says:

    Hah. Bet you wish we were right now, don’t you ?

  153. 153
    Yeast(b) of the East end says:

    Just how does a women become so common?
    She sounds as if she is gargling a Billingsgate fishwives secondhand spunk
    Wouldn’t surprise me if her front bottom smelt like Billingsgate on a hot summers day

  154. 154
    Anonymous says:

    the soul, the divine spirit, the human body.
    integrate it. nothing else is. crisis proof

  155. 155
    CH says:

    Father I have sinned.

    Keep it schtum!

  156. 156
    Yeast(b) of the East end says:

    The pope is a Nazi and he shits in the black forrest

  157. 157
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    Sod it. a song for David Icke, and what he went through, when he was told “no Dave, black is actually is white in Shepherd’s Bush sports reporting”.

    And the original, Dave I, back in deepest Thatcher’s lund,

  158. 158

    Almost Sheikspearean…

  159. 159
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Well it’s quite clear labour believe him. Why else have they gone into panicked convulsions and seem to be saying one thing one minute and the opposite the next.

  160. 160
    Casual Observer says:

    Do you not see this to be somewhat like the Monty Hall problem ?

    If really only considering Lab / Con:

    The Red door is: ‘No referendum’ : So we don’t open that. (Monty did that one for us)

    The Blue doors offer either no referendum or referendum. To which the right sort of leader is required. We know with Cameron in play there will be no referendum.

    This is of course ignoring the case that UKIP get in, but who should replace Cameron in order to help us get to the referendum blue door ?

    NB. The overall probability here of getting a referendum and a successful out result appears to be very small without UKIP either in control, or forming a real coalition.

  161. 161
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    I am watching swans chelski free here, eu ironic, what with today

    http://www.nutjob.eu

  162. 162

    Beauty fades. Stupidity lasts forever.

  163. 163
    Truthteller says:

    Agreed, we want a referendum now.

  164. 164
    JH3534634623423 says:

    I’m sure Mary Beard knows lots about classics; we need a few people like that, to maintain and extend knowledge. It has little market value, but should nonetheless be carried forward to future generations and she should regard that as her primary expertise and responsibility.

    However, no matter what the dizzying heights of her niche education, she knows absolutely fuck all about the realities of mass third-world immigration or what it is like to live in proximity to it. The reaction she got on QT must have horrified lefties as they are so used to having the run of play and being able to spout their little bromides without challenge.

    Welcome to the real world Beard. Now stick to reading fucking dusty books and stop trying to force your dream world on to other people’s reality.

  165. 165
    Dave - balls of steel - Cameron says:

    Logic not really your strongpoint is it?

    Safest to stick to your bake off.

  166. 166
    (I don't need no doctor) says:

    The trouble with Miliband is that he is the son of a commie import. If he had grown up under an english oak tree he would understand what we stand for. He didn’t, and he has no clue whatsoever about what makes the people of this great island tick.
    He has no policies, and as proven to be a useless idiot. His only way is to be negative and spiteful. Take today’s blacklist debate in the HOC. This happened under labour, who did nothing for thirteen years. Now labour try their latest trick of making it seem as though it happened under the coalition. Miliband it’s not even a nice try, it’s pathetic just like you.

  167. 167
    (I don't need no doctor) says:

    Caroline Flint – loud mouthed, arrogant and useless. It’s the labour way.

  168. 168

    Stephen Stills – Tree Top Flyer

  169. 169
    The Fabian Society says:

    ♪♫♪♫…
    All I want is a room somewhere,
    Far away from the cold night air.
    With one enormous chair,
    Aow, wouldn’t it be loverly?
    …♪♫♪♫

  170. 170
    (I don't need no doctor) says:

    Was our great bard an arab? Well I never.

  171. 171
    Deirdre Barlow says:

    Do you mind! I’ve worked hard in proper jobs all my life.

  172. 172
    Brillo Bo'lox says:

    I have been spotted at last.
    Sorry guilty of all things tory.
    You know the score, who am I to argue.

  173. 173
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    what ever you say, spare arse breath present tory today part. See if I care.

  174. 174
    Southern Softy says:

    She needs a good seeing too

  175. 175
    The Fabian Society says:

    ♪♫♪♫…

    Aow, so loverly sittin’ abso-bloomin’-lutely still.
    I would never budge ’till spring
    Crept over me windowsill.
    Someone’s ‘ead restin’ on my knee,
    Warm an’ tender as ‘e can be. ‘ho takes good care of me,
    Aow, wouldn’t it be loverly?

    …♪♫♪♫

  176. 176

    Could I say the Devlin is in the Variants?

  177. 177
    Anonymous says:

    Agreed.And there are plenty of other favoured academics who know bugger all about life in the real world yet are trotted out to spout their predictable bollocks.

  178. 178
    Blowing Whistles says:

    @court list – You huhne it I’ll sing sing it…

  179. 179
    DWWolds says:

    And Straw added to the confusion on the BBC News Channel just after 5 o’clock with the comment that Milliminor had only ruled out a referendum “for now”. They really do not know which day of the week it is.

  180. 180
    mr sensible says:

    Isn’t the odd thing that if light goes through one hole it behaves like a particle with scattering but if it goes through 2 holes it behaves like a wave with interference. anybody know how this is measured ?

  181. 181
    Fukin de Plep says:

    Who gives a f u c k, apart from plebs.

  182. 182
    Gordon Brown PM says:

    Psst! Gordon – you’re not the PM anymore. Take off your adult nappy and come and get your needle

    Not now, nursey, I’m busy leading the British people towards ever closer European hegemony, it’s the right thing to do, just some bigoted woman, beardy beardy bearddyyy beard

  183. 183

    It was the Otherfello chap, I think.

  184. 184
    twats says:

    and Labour wont organise in Northern Ireland, so that fucks their one nation spiel a little more

  185. 185
    old SHEP says:

    Why is it; climate change secretary (we will leave out the shadow for now), what is she going to do?, open/close a window, adjust the thermostat on the wall heater, write a thesis on smart meter readings?.

  186. 186

    Young’s interference experiment.

    Double slit. Lucky bastard.

  187. 187
    (I don't need no doctor) says:

    Is that Cinderella Flint from now on?

  188. 188
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    Makes a change from gargelling female tories, Angela Browning dor instance – gawd knows what she is up to theses days – a right tory sleeper in brit society if ever I heard of one. A dangerous anti-britman on the street creature.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Browning

  189. 189
    Sir William says:

    Caroline Flint is another of these superstitious people who want to appease Gaia by erecting giant garden ornaments all over the UK (except where important people live). She is to energy policy what Jeremy Clarkson is to feminism.

  190. 190
    (I don't need no doctor) says:

    No

  191. 191
    Tachybaptus says:

    It’s measuring that causes the contradiction. Until you observe the behaviour of the photon, it’s both a particle and a wave. Measuring collapses it into one state or the other. Recommended reading:

    http://tinyurl.com/bzomx7p

  192. 192
    (I don't need no doctor) says:

    No

  193. 193
    rabbits foot never walk under a ladder says:

    Is she really?

  194. 194
    Blowing Whistles says:

    Prey not me SC – I love the female form. The issue here is the multiple contradictions coming from all the politicals.

    They are all “playing for time” – they’re all trying to survive (and that really is it) and fill their boots and pockets with the publics money until the next election 2015.

    The one thing of substance I heard today was Farage saying that his party are the only one who actually campaign for an “out” vote. So the press inc Mr I’ve got a Bus Pass and some he spoke to trying to say that UKIP have been neutered – is quite the load of Bolox that so much of the free press speak so often and so much.

  195. 195
    mr sensible says:

    “She needs a good seeing to”
    I’ve always liked that expression as in “you need a good seeing to and I’m the girl to do it”

  196. 196
    (I don't need no doctor) says:

    Glad you could throw some light on the matter.

  197. 197
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    she’s pushing on – that;s time, non-bottoxed. At least she can still wink, upstairs and doenstairs, unlike Ann Robinson, the ginger Liverpuddle tory sellout.

  198. 198
    Casual Observer says:

    Yes.

    The strength of the UK hand though is being a little ignored at the moment. The problem for the EU is finding a way of accommodating UK sovereign wishes whilst preserving its own credibility.

    Other nation states must be fully awake to this and watching with interest.

    Now, if one of the others starts to voice concern, perhaps Greece, Czeck Rep or Spain, that could make things interesting.

  199. 199
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    Don’t listen to Sir William. He is still stuck in the fourteenth century.

    Where are my serfs? M’Lord, they died of the plague, m’Lord, you silly thick numbnut, m’Lord.

  200. 200
    Blowing Whistles says:

    Davos of course being in Switzerland – who are not part of the EU and who are worried about immigration upsetting their tribal instincts – like having secret secret bank accounts for multibillionaires – who filter via 1000’s of legal loopholes – billions from the UK public purse.

    Hello – is anybody listening… reading … and thinking properly?

  201. 201
    Fabian Society featuring MP Fatbot says:

    ♪♫♪♫…

    Lots of choc’lates for me to eat,
    Lots of coal makin’ lots of ‘eat.
    Warm face, warm ‘ands, warm feet,
    Aow, wouldn’t it be loverly?

    …♪♫♪♫

  202. 202
    old SHEP says:

    giant garden ornaments, in the shape of windmills- to appease the Gods, never tried before in that variant, much cheaper to slaughter a Bull or make a divination from the entrails of a Dove, still doesn’t stop that volcanic eruption happening though. But that’s superstitious religion for you.

  203. 203
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    Knew that would happen when I posted that – sorry lads, but I am watching it in danish at the moment, and got several links in russian too.

    Sorry to make it a test here lads.

  204. 204
    Blowing Whistles says:

    ++ 3 million next year and how many more the year after … perhaps enough as you state to CREATE THE SCENARIO AND IMBALANCE THAT THEY REALLY WANT.

    The Homosexuals are allowed to come out – and as part of the majority of the British Public I want OUT of the EU NOW – IN FACT YESTERDAY!

  205. 205
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    Got the track investigating of it – well, not acshually me, someone I know, who, AHEM!, works in Cheltenham…

  206. 206
    yvette the minger says:

    yes cat but you haven’t seen her growler and you might not have a choice

  207. 207
    mr sensible says:

    ta for that, I understand that is accepted wisdom but I wonder if there might be some other explanation

  208. 208
    Wooden nickel meets real life says:

    Seems the media are in a total spin, over this non referendum rubbish, they are doing well in giving interviews from people who want to stay in, not heard any against, strange that, you could get the impression they like the rest of the establishment want an in vote, biased reporting from the British media nah, just keeping an eye on which side their bread is buttered.

  209. 209
    Saffron says:

    Well folks what about todays news.
    Shamcams meaningless EUSSR utterances over years of still being in this commie outfit.
    Flinty not knowing wether I am coming or going re the EUSSR.
    The immigrants commie son dropping a right clanger.
    Merkely saying we can talk,not really suprised about that seeing an election is on the horizon in Germiny,yes I can spell it.
    Hollande and his frogs another bunch of coms.
    Also we now have Bliar butting in with his pearls of wisdom and most of us know what that guy I have found God is all about.
    Message to Cam the Sham,do you really think that the people of this land cannot see through you and the other two assholes are about.
    Come this time next year we may hopefully see a real awakening of the British people of this land when a certain event takes place.

  210. 210
    Anonymous says:

    The old Labour guard are laying the groundwork for when they ditch Milliband in favour of a new leader that’s untarnished by this almighty cock-up and electable.

  211. 211
    Blowing Whistles says:

    As I stated a month or so ago SC – there is little difference between the Extremes of Communism and the Extremes of Capitalism – both rely on the masses being fleeced – by any and every duplicitous means. When both forms remain ‘unchecked’ and ‘unbalanced’ [there are no checks and balances on those at the top lawful I might add – and haven’t the legals aided and abetted them for their own financial gains too] in favour of the ‘few’ – both are but a lie.

  212. 212

    I was wondering if I would get away with that. ;-)

    One might say that Farage is the only politico who has made a clean breast of it…

  213. 213
    Blowing Whistles says:

    However – people have empowered themselves now via the Net – the good genie that ‘they’ cannot really put back in the bottle without them being torn to pieces.

    It’s surreal really – they have caught themselves on a hook of their own casting.

  214. 214
    Alternative Explanation says:

    There is the many universe interpretation, but not many are familiar with the converse many minds interpretation.

    There was an analysis posted to arxiv (unreviewed) considering the case in a perfect vacuum which is interesting:

    http://tinyurl.com/awsxjzw

    Have been looking to find some experimental results for Youngs being performed as classically prescribed in a decent vacuum for confirmation that all holds.

  215. 215
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    me daughter is the one in the middle of the vid, the fuller youger lady, more healthy, ey lads?

  216. 216
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    green and black, dowry call

  217. 217
    Blowing Whistles says:

    Barry you and your boys have mentioned 3 key subject matter in the past few weeks – let me remind you

    1 The EU
    2 Gay Marriage
    3 Climate Change

    Has it not occurred to you that – these are the 3 biggest lies / fabrications / myths that political-types are trying to dupe the public over – on both sides of the Atlantic?

  218. 218
    Sir William says:

    As the man said, when people stop believing in God, they do not believe in nothing – they believe in anything – Marxism, horoscopes, global warming – anything.

  219. 219
    Saffron says:

    To 206
    I totally agree with you,it seems the media have their own self centred agenda.
    Openess and telling it truthfully is out of the window.

  220. 220
    Blowing Whistles says:

    Most of them are listed in Who’s who. They’re the compliant 5hits – who spread the lies then get themselves talked up in the bull5hitting press & media. Compliant establishment types.

  221. 221
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    What an amusing day. cameron finally grows a spine and concedes an in/out referendum and labour/liblab folks in westminster go into a complete spin !

    Been more fun watching than a panto!!

    Be interesting to see what the polls do over next few days – labour already down to a miserable 5 point lead (an unheard of low for a mid term opposition party) – after militwit’s sorry performance in pmq’s this morning that may be set to fall even further.

    Of course it’s only temporary – when the dust settles and militwit’s predictions of our economy completely collapsing now under this new promise for eu in/out are found to be complete rubbish life will settle back into it’s old routine .

  222. 222

    So delightfully put, Mr Cooper, Sir.

    I am all for choice and that entails not choosing when no option is acceptable, such as in this instance.

    She actually sounds very strident to me (surprise, surprise!) and in any unlikely encounter, that would put me off.

    Whilst my weakness for the female sex is willingly confessed, the requirement for mutuality is paramount and we would both surely and sorely disappoint the other.

  223. 223
    Saffron says:

    Feck off with your meaningless video drivel this is not for this site,suggest you try facebook/youtube sites and post your drivel elsewere.
    Goodnight hopefully.

  224. 224
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    SWANS ARE OFF TO WEMBLEY, ey, ey, listen!

    What do you think of that, you tory funny guts?

  225. 225
    Blowing Whistles says:

    Me thinks that The EU will have long imploded before 2015 or even 2017.

    There are too many ordinary people being fcuked left, right and centre throughout Europe by the Behemoth Brussels taxem machine already – it’s going to end in tears if not rivers of political blood.

  226. 226
    Casual Observer says:

    I don’t think he developed a spine, but he has acknowledged the elephant.

    Not that one has any interest in a political union with those across the channel, it will be interesting to see a case built for continued EU dogma.

    Without either some sort of coup d’etat or a civil war across the Eurozone the EU as a construct has zero future irrespective of referendums.

  227. 227
    green ink says:

    trust you to break the spell nellie … mood up … cameron on the right path right at the centre of the Eu debate … labour a complete walking shambles … nick clegg at last showing his true colours…yellow and you mention chingrinner.

  228. 228
    mr sensible says:

    the other related thing that bothers me is the behavior of electricity, people say to think about it as water in a tube but I think it is not like that.
    if I have a battery and a very long piece of copper wire say 1000miles long and I put one terminal of the battery into the earth and attach the wire to the other terminal and then 1000miles away put the wire into the ground through some sort of resistance, say me, then electrons should flow through the earth through me down the wire back to the battery ?

  229. 229
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    First time pal for the Swans. Leighton Phillips is going mad on Radio Wales, saying it as he sees it.

    Chelski player kicked a Swans ball boy up the arse, and got sent off – check your back page papers tomorrow. ON DEAR! : )

  230. 230
    Casual Observer says:

    I suspect blood, the real stuff. Farage was warning about this years back, and has toned down his rhetoric recently which suggests that the possibility is much stronger now.

    The real problem is going to be the younger generation. They have been totally screwed in this process, and as they get older realizing the lie they have been sold is just that, they will get very angry. Riots in London the other year was a taste of what is really coming down the pipe.

  231. 231
    mr sensible says:

    I do understand that the actual electrons appear to move at a rate of 10 mm per minute or something but it is the instantaneous effect that is weird.

  232. 232
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    OH DEAR even.

    Fucking altering tory faggots!

  233. 233
    Sally Bercow says:

    I promise a bit of in and out.

  234. 234
    Alan Rusbridger says:

    Today I will be playing the King’s Place Rag by Scott Jobsgone.

  235. 235
    Saffron says:

    Global warming,then changed to climate change is one of the biggest ponzi schemes ever.
    Madoff was a master of this who got found out and prosecuted.
    Now we are being billed big time for people who are making money out of this scam as though there is no tomorrow and our hard earned cash is being paid into these assholes who are promoting this scam.
    We are all into this as a one nation state starts to ring a bit hollow,cue cammorons big society,is a load of pigshite.

  236. 236
    Ron White says:

    And not even necessarily on the “beauty fades” part, either, but you’re right on the second part, I must say– you can’t fix “stupid”!

  237. 237
    Saffron says:

    Whoever you are,why don,t you feck off with the inane.

  238. 238
    Eddie Boys Bandwagon Tour spokesperson says:

    the wheels have come off at the moment…somebody rang eddie stobart and they said try ryanair for davos ..

  239. 239
    Boo to the EU says:

    You put your yes vote in
    Your no vote out
    In out, in out
    Rebate it all about
    Dave’s a hokey Tory
    U-turns abound
    That what it’s all about

  240. 240
    NHS helpline says:

    try specsavers

  241. 241
    I bet she's a right goer in the sack says:

    Caroline Flint. I would.

  242. 242

    I think we agree much more about outcomes than we do about motives, BW.

    We know that so many aspects of government, law, business and banking (to mention but a few) are totally unsatisfactory.

    We are not privy to the workings of these people’s minds but I see a very simple common factor in them all which one can label as the Me factor. This will probably not be to your liking but I see us all as rather insignificant in the passage of history. With that viewpoint there is a chance of developing some humility, the very quality that all these people lack. When I quote the thoughts of others, it is to illustrate how some people from other ages are so much wiser than we are (generally speaking), despite the fact that we have the advantage of perspective.

    But as Henry Ford said History is bunk. Everyone in banks and business thinks that now. Most politicians think that too. So they make the most elementary mistakes which could have been avoided if they had only been better read.

    The people you regard as manipulative and malevolent, I mostly regard as stupid and greedy. We both agree they are arrogant, I think.

  243. 243
    Casual Observer says:

    Current doesn’t flow like liquid through a wire. That was an early Victorian model. It works approximately in some cases.

    Direct Current like a battery you can model this way, but Alternating Current does not work that way. AC flows in the outer layer of the conductor – see Skin effect. This of course is a model and an approximation which covers certain situations.

    If you had a copper wire 1000 miles long and buried one end in the earth, you would likely get a shock when holding your end as you would find a potential difference between the two earth points. This was a big problem for telephone engineers.

    With the battery: If you connected the copper wire to the negative terminal of your battery, assuming earth same at end points of the wire, you would get a small current flow and lose energy from the battery.

    To get the electron flow back to the positive terminal you can model the gap between this terminal and your earth point as a capacitor. It should be a very small current flow, and I am ignoring the resistance of the copper wire which of course would not carry a direct current over such a distance, but dissipate that energy through resistance heating.

    If you touch the positive terminal and have a good earth connection yourself then yes, you will complete the circuit. Electrons will travel through the salt ions in you to complete the circuit. Should be a very small current so you should not notice it.

  244. 244
    Lady Britain says:

    he sneers but you see the eyes wanting approval .. risible … birdshit boy isn’t up to it never was ….never will be….. and the creeps hes got around him old and new are a joke…. and plenty of them know it.

  245. 245
    mr sensible says:

    if evolution is true explanation then we have fucked up the species with current social arrangements.

  246. 246
    Stopped bolloxing down with snow in West Wales says:

    i’ll have seconds : )

  247. 247
    Vote UKIP says:

    Vote UKIP and get a referendum as soon as possible. By 2018 the country will have been ripped apart by mozzies, Roms and Bulgars.

    Never trust a tory cast-iron guarantee.

  248. 248
    Casual Observer says:

    The effect is not instant: Just very fast.

    In a perfect conductor the speed should be that of light.

    If you look at semi-conductors you will get a better picture of what this electron flow is really about.

    Focusing more on the fields you can start to go faster than light.

    The Casimir effect is a very interesting and may be more related to your point ?

  249. 249
    Aunt Hilda says:

    hes never been a real player and I doubt his brother has either … david’s mistake was to walk away

  250. 250

    When people had to believe in God, under the fear of losing their lives, they had to believe that the sun orbited our world and not the other way round. That paying large sums to the clergy would bring them salvation. That women were inferior to men. That the Pope was infallible.

    I wished you had used the words grounded reason instead of invoking a deity. The Golden Rule is the only thing which needs to be added to that.

  251. 251
    Britain the ruined country says:

    I’m Andrew Neil, my nickname’s Brillo
    I’m taking the bbc’s shilling.
    Lib/Lab/Con are courting me
    for interviews – more than willing.
    I taunt and tease
    I ask them -” please” –
    “Answer what I asked you”.
    Needless to say they never do
    They twist and squirm
    Explode and burn.
    I know so many secrets.
    Life’s a game, they’re all the same
    Chancers, Liars, Fakers.

  252. 252

    Listen again to Cameron’s statement. He DOESN’T promise a referendum.

    He says that he will negotiate new terms with Europe and then have the referendum. Therefore if he doesn’t negotiate the terms he doesn’t have to offer the referendum but by then all the Euro-Sceptics will have voted him in for another term of power.

  253. 253
    Casual Observer says:

    Things are out of balance at present, that is for sure.

    But we constantly drift through history.

    If we consider what we perceive to be a projection from within, then in order to change this we simply need to change the projection. Unfortunately, as history has shown, altering such status quo usually involves loss of life.

    Referendum tomorrow could change perception peacefully. Leaving it for a couple of years will just allow the pressure to continue to build. But that has been the strategy of the EU since inception.

  254. 254
    Britain the ruined country says:

    Flint – being one of the very worst for interrupting when other people are speaking – had the gall to accuse the other speaker of interrupting her and tried to make out that that was the reason she was unable to formulate an intelligent response to any question.

  255. 255
    Guido Fawkes says:

    Eh? Guido Fawkes is in the public domain!

  256. 256
    EU information commission says:

    We will put the genie back in the bottle.
    Censoring the press is only the first step.

  257. 257
    Propaganda Watch says:

    The lesson: Propaganda can only reliably control what people fear and to what extent they fear.

    The AGW scam is beautiful in a way as it successfully monetized for some a very basic fear for the health of ones environment in many people.

    The real con though is that whilst those fears were raised and resources and rights stripped from people on the basis that it was in their interests to protect the biosphere, the very actions which cause real damage to the biosphere carried on regardless.

    That is something that should stoke the fires of anger, but the appropriate response is to note that the credibility of all of those who sold that snake oil is now gone. There is one government department in particular which as legacy now has a more ridiculous title than the others…

  258. 258
    Anonymous says:

    Note to TV news programmes.
    Interviewing businessmen returning on Eurostar about their views on a possible exit from the EU is not fair or balanced.
    And it doesn’t fool anyone.

  259. 259
    Britain the ruined country says:

    What about this case?

    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10178025.Court_told_men_raped_young_girls_they_plied_with_drink/

    Another one swept under the carpet by the bbc.

  260. 260
    Gordon Brown, allegedly still an MP says:

    Looks like I’m not the only “Brown” with a screw (or ten) loose:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9820877/Charlie-Brown-actor-arrested-on-stalking-charges.html

    Charlie Brown, Charlie Brown,
    He’s a clown, that Charlie Brown!
    He’s gonna get caught–
    Just you wait and see!
    “Why is everybody always pickin’ on ME?”

  261. 261
    Blowing Whistles says:

    SC I agree with your point on developing some humility and your comment in general.

    There is another lovely word in the English language which is also very powerful – “Contrition”.

    I am actually published on the word itself having attempted to point it at numerous local councillors in my Region of the EU. (I take de pi55 there)

    Sadly the older genreation of Local Councillors throughout this land – are too stoopid to have any contrition or humility – because they have to their own embarrassment bought into the lies that are the diktats that they are spinelessley and cravenly suborned under. Oh to actually see them in numbers admit that they have been duped by rhetoric and lies … they know not nor care about any form of contrition for all of their years of so called being members of the public whom they so often speak of as representing.

  262. 262
    Anonymous says:

    I love Andrew Neil, he is really fair and gave owen jones a right kicking !

  263. 263
    mr sensible says:

    I have attempted to comprehend the behaviour of electricity in circuits and mosfets and the like. I have read the speed of reaction along a wire explained as the hole that moves from one atom to another ( nudge up) but cannot understand the mechanism ( the communication) from one end of the wire to the other, or from one part of the earth to another. is a mystery to me.

  264. 264
    not a machine says:

    After such a long wait and thinking about what David Cameron had to say all I can add is well done .

    I think I understand the politcs , theres a bit of backwash , but overall he said what had to be said , my only feelings on the doubters and double speak merchants is that your are talking about an EU that is changing its architecture and in so doing causing a lot of problems , you cannot simply make generalised statements on the economic comptence of the eurozone , they wish to pursue this convergence agenda and they will have to face the results of it . For those of us that can see how a low cost co op model can work more definitely , they have heard our ecnomic argument and they have posted back its a binary choice and you cannot chose what the EU will be like as they are already changing it .

    My own first reaction was one of fudged compromise , as 2015 seems so long away , and Mrs Merkel phone is suddenly ready . Labours scared of UKIP line was so last week and wrong . If i have understood his speech correctly its not so much a two teir europe or two speed europe , but one that can keep the free market functioning for those that can work better with that concept.
    I still think it is wasting too much cash and I wish we just leave it all today £60mn a day , to help balance our books . It doesnt quite finish the whole matter , but it at least shows the path and a way out , if things cannot be achieved .

  265. 265
    Damned Impertinent Questions says:

    Shockin.There may be more coloured people too – not that we have anything agin ‘em, honest

  266. 266
    Anonymous says:

    I have relatives living in France,Spain and Greece and without exception their friends and neighbours in those countries are as sick of the EU as us Brits.

  267. 267
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Don’t let it worry you.

    The big news story out today is that the tories are prepared to give the electorate the right to say Yes or No to the EU.

    And the even Bigger story today was the labour opposition leader , militwit, saying he was NOT prepared tp give the electorate the democratic right to say Yes or No to the EU.!!

    I feel sure I heard the Founding Fathers of Labour turn in their graves!!

  268. 268
    Blowing Whistles says:

    And will a £3 million pound bung to the legal parasites – be enough to keep him from where he ought naturally and rightly to be?

  269. 269
    One of Dave's soo-to-arrive Romanian immigrants says:

    Cast iron? Did someone mention scrap metal?

    Now you see it, now you don’t. Just like your old church roof! Minunat! That feed my village for 10 years.

    Even though my village soon lives in new concreted garden city of Kent.

    (PS: more benefit monies, please.)

  270. 270
    Doh! says:

    He couldn’t promise a referendum before the next election because he’s in a Coalition with the pro EU Lib Dems.

  271. 271
    Anonymous says:

    They really do think they just have to sit tight and the great unwashed will vote them in, in 2015.They have done * all since they lost exept to have photo ops with pasties and call for enquiries at the drop of a hat, bloody disgraceful.

  272. 272
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Let’s put it simply ‘not a machine’

    Do we want an EU that makes folks like the kinnochios into £millionaires whilst leaching the rest of us of taxes, turning Greece into a third world state and failing its economic audits year on year ?

    Or do we want to be free to do something cleaner and more honest with the money we’ll save from putting it into that cesspit?

  273. 273
    retardEd Miliband says:

    The govewment hath acted in a weckleth and iwethponthible manner. Giving the people a thay ith a weckleth and iwethponthible thing to do. The weffewendum ith too far, too fatht.

    Oh yeth.

  274. 274
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Thought it was quite interesting how bliar piled into the in/out EU argument tonight when he realised cameron had ‘ceased the moment’.

    bliar wants to be next EU President – cameron might just steal his prize away from him – I do hope so!!

  275. 275
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    ‘seized’ !!

  276. 276
    Anonymous says:

    I think its hilarious the way Ed walked right into the trap ! PM offering a referendum, Ed saying no. so who are the EU sceptics going to vote for ?Davie boy !!!!!

  277. 277
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    militwit is going to regret this day – I suspect it is the final downturn in his failed leadership!!

  278. 278
    Ermmm.. durrr... says:

    Would that be the same Pro-EU LimpDums lead by Clegg, who promised – in his 2010 campaign literature – an IN/OUT referendum on EU membership?

    Why, yes it would.

    Sorry, what was your point again?

  279. 279
    Blowing Whistles says:

    The EU as it stands was founded upon many lies and deceptions over the decades. It will forever remain as a lie founded on lies and deceptions. Thus it’s current leaders’ contempt for ordinary people throughout Europe will never be forgiven or tolerated.

  280. 280
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    It would – but times change and miriam wants cleggie to take an Eu commissioners job (he’ll make loads then like the kinnochios) – so guess why he’s changed his tune!!

    And vinny’s hoping to do something similar!!

    You have to look after your own interests first – sod the nation and all that!!

  281. 281
    Phil says:

    David’s was a real player. It was him and Gordon who sneaked in the back door and signed the Lisbon treaty hoping not to get noticed traitorous bastards.

  282. 282
    green ink says:

    the timing … issues and debate about the Eu are spot on … David Cameron can show there is a fairness and sense that must be put into the reality of what needs to happen within the community and galvanize the roots of the solutions within the existing treaty bounds….terms can be amended. If the union decides it wants to do something consensually then of course it can do so. This issue isn’t going back into the long grass again.

    The strategy to engender that support across the board is the task which David Cameron takes on.

    being at the centre of the debate is absolutely where he should be.

  283. 283
    Anonymous says:

    Wanted to make an english electric lightning teeshirt, with a maverick RAF regional uk pilot going up vertical with his head out the side, with his tongue hanging out salivating, but there was not much call then, in thatcher’s starched mid eighties .

    Some of my mates then laughed at the thought, and thought I was, frankly, a bit RAF regional bonkers.

  284. 284
    mr sensible says:

    I’m really pissed off with the big bang theory. It just doesn’t seem right like where’s the edge ? what are we expanding into ?. you ask these astrophysicists about this and they say ” well nobody ever saw the edge of the universe so you can ignore that” well I smell a rat.

  285. 285
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    Wanted to do a teeshirt of an RAF Lighning maverick single seated pilot going vertical, head out the side with tongue out down the side salivating, but my fellow RAF technicians thought I was bonkers, in mid-eighties starchy thatcher tory age.

  286. 286
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    +1000

    Yes he has finally grasped the straw and left his opponents on the back foot.

    I never thought he’d do it – but so glad he has!!

    And yes he has a battle ahead of him just like Mrs T did when she launched the Falklands War.

    It’s all about principle!

  287. 287
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Doubt you’d make an RAF chap . They need commitment to their country, nerve and courage . Your comment seems to lack all of those things!

  288. 288
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    oops, sorry, wrong thread video – me in afghan, bothering yanks uncle joe’s army, twenty feet above them,

  289. 289
    not a machine says:

    That is the risk he runs in still putting our wealth into the cesspit that does not change , or is beyond help . It feels a bit sore having waited all this time for a sudden respect for tax payers money , getting fiddled and blown , but the europhiles had best wrestle with that one . I have heard no europhile explain how we get our losses back , they just keep rolling out this bland blank cheque nonsense like some socialist hopey changey thing .

    It may be 2 years of making the europhiles face the cow pat , so much wonk have they poured out , its just routine .We have an unamed as such ecnomic failiure , if the answers we get are back are more of the same rather than resolution , he has center right way out of it . Even I can apprecite , even if after much loss , we dont want to harm the free market , that is the trade that has existed all along . If they cannot assess there own liabilities of their own folly , I dont think we should be part of the superstate . We just want to trade and manage our own economy , so do some other Eu countries .

  290. 290
    green ink says:

    Nick Clegg, given his training, finally flunked in responding to the Eu issues as he did … I expect leon might have told him before to engage the brain before the mouth. Shame he couldn’t be trusted .. I had respect for the political reality lesson he took when he put his feet under the desk but he didn’t couldn’t and can’t deliver.

  291. 291
    UK Voters (according to Labour) says:

    Gee George. Did he say no wefewendum or maybe wefewendum ? He so pretty like the rabbits, George. If we vote for him will we get alfalfa and wefewendums George ?

  292. 292
    Ronseal tin says:

    Bliar can fuck right off.

  293. 293
    not a machine says:

    hence the term used in astronomy “the great unknown ”

    Heres one for your lunch break “what is static electricity?”

  294. 294
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    Tried to get my 21 year old daughter to be third generation, with modest service, RAF, the first female of us, and I can see she would do well – she scuba dives all over the world, running restaurants and being a tour guide and tour rep these days and shit,

    Get on her case RAF.

  295. 295
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    You are so obviously the can’t fly caroline flint – you have my sympathy

  296. 296
    old SHEP says:

    Too deep for me cat, my point was only (in a roundabout way) we are all just getting screwed by Utility companies, the government of the day and of course the usual suspects, I could give a list but it’s just becoming tooo tiresome.

    University of East Anglia
    (couldn’t resist).

  297. 297
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    I’m 51, been there, ex-RAF. Ex weekend warrior Royal Sigs too after, for something to do then.

  298. 298
    not a machine says:

    President of the culmination of decades of labour busted ideaology and fraud , I suppose it has a certain justice to it , after brainwashing us all for so long .

  299. 299
    silly old bugger award committee says:

    and then theres george skinner… can’t someone ring michael foot’s heirs and see if they can lend him a different jacket … it’ll match his style but with a dash of snide nonsense

  300. 300

    Unusually for us, we are making headway tonight. To unfold my next level of thought, I think that the party system has to bear a lot of the blame. Younger people are mostly, but not always, not interested in politics and one can see why. But they get to a state where they are finding difficulty in coping and the state or the local authority want more money which they can ill afford with big mortgages and maybe a new family.

    But to begin with many are in a strange wilderness. Who to support? Blair won many such people over simply because of some televisual appeal which I found inexplicable because I was concerned with political philosophy. These people had to endure 13 years of him and his successor simply because they never questioned the philosophy. I will tell a funny story separately about this.

    But the party system creates a necessity for a set of policies. Without a common thread of justification they cannot hang together. That is why Labour have been both pro-Europe and anti-Europe at different times in recent decades. That is also why the Conservatives chose an heir to Blair at the very moment when Blair’s shine had come off and we were looking at the rust underneath.

    In other words, everything at party level is done for superficial appearances in an instant gratification world and no one takes the time out to say How do we build the best foundations? How do we build the best walls? How large do we need to make the house? What is the best roof we can have? I can extend that analogy forever but think you will know the point anyway.

  301. 301
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Whatever it is , it’s what made militwit’s hair stand on end when cameron offered an in/out eu election this morning.

    militwit hadn’t recovered by pmqs. He still looked dishevelled and was confused

  302. 302
    mr sensible says:

    they are not windmills they are propellers, welsh and yorkshire miners have been busy cutting huge tunnels under the UK island and installing inflatable tubing, when all is ready these propellers will turn on and propel the island to warmer climes.

  303. 303
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    Better not mention FFL, when my knees gave out, and the french doc asked me about any family history, and I said my mam has bad rheumatoid arthritis, and the french doc said AH, did a few test on my immune system capabilities, and then showed me the door by telling me to slow down – the more physical exertion you do mon ami, the more it will bring it on, so try and cruise, as best you can do.

  304. 304
    Anonymous says:

    Was it simulation by the ball boy?

  305. 305
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    ACH! No doubt Caroline has someone to fly her. But if not, a song for the Flint,

    someone pass her my email address, if so.

  306. 306
    not a machine says:

    Oh yes that moment was worth waiting for , you could watch the full gravity of what he said crushing his party and their years of malfiesance and self enrichment . As for Ms Elleman question , the playing of the was nae me line , I wish they could have just carried on and run them through.
    people suffering is what you get when you create and leave a debt crisis , let alone the additional of one of such size as this one .

  307. 307
    mr sensible says:

    I was just thinking about that very thing. I got my girlfriend to rub my cock with a silk handkerchief purely in the interests of research you understand

  308. 308
    Anonymous says:

    Hang the b@stard!

  309. 309
    Lady Britain says:

    of course being one of gordon’s goffers makes you a real player… don’t laugh

  310. 310
    Anonymous says:

    I have to say that Milliband is the most unpleasant Labour leader i can remember, and im 64 ! Wilson, callaghan, kinnock, smith, Blair, and Gordon. You may not have agreed with them but they werent nasty and devious as Milliband is, if he spent as much time doing something constructive as he does in thinking up nasty soundbites the labour party would be in a better state.

  311. 311
  312. 312

    OK. Now the funny story. You will probably know that Labour had in its constitution Clause 4 which dated from 1918 and which undertook to bring the fruits of production into common ownership.

    When I grew up almost everything was in public ownership and nothing worked. To get something done, you had to know someone. Even our dear Jimmy admits above that the command economy failed.

    Anyway, I went to stay in Lichfield in 1993 and stayed at a very nice B&B there as I found them much friendlier than hotels. The husband was a Conservative but the wife was Labour and, what is more, she was a councillor. We chatted after breakfast and I said I could never vote for the Labour party. She asked why not. I said because I did not believe in Clause 4.

    Clause 4, she asked, What’s that?

    I was thunderstruck! How could this person be a Labour politician and not even know what the party stood for? I patiently explained to her what the clause stated. She was quite intelligent enough to understand but she just did not know and had not bothered to find out.

    Two years later, Tony Blair, ended Clause 4 as the party had known it. Maybe my conversation had a butterfly effect? Who knows?

    I now expect all politicians, local and national, not to know what their parties stand for because the truth is they stand for nothing. And nothing surprises me any more.

  313. 313
  314. 314
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    I have to admit I’m struggling with this one.

    Labour were founded to give the working classes a voice and above all a vote!

    And yet now militwit has said he will deny us a vote on an In/Out EU Referendum!

    How does he justify that?

    Does he regard himself as more superior than us and with a better right to make that choice ?

    Or is he being guided by his EU funded £multimillionaire pal kinnochio who wants to keep his gravy train going? And labour’s bliar , of course, who wants to be the next EU President with £millions directed towards his personal bank account!!

    Alas they are exposed as ‘emperors with no clothes’

    Charlatens to put it another way!

  315. 315
    Anonymous says:

    i don,t see ppl being empowered.
    ppl have more information.
    and a lot of disinformation.

    great wisdom is in the past.
    not today. it may well be that the world is run using Vedic knowledge, and how old are they and how many ppl know anything about it.

  316. 316
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    Nah. It’s like the rat that senses food ie politicians sensing riches at the EU – they keep sniffing around hoping to get in there .

    It’s what labour and bliar does – they are all about looking after themselves and sod the world!!

  317. 317
    Casual Observer says:

    When Blair came in and said ‘Trust me’, that should have warned all. One does wonder what the younger generation of today are seeing in Cameron as the shops around them close, the uTube clips of riots in Europe are watched and jobs and promised life of plenty fail to materialize.

  318. 318
    albacore says:

    Yup. Now we’ve heard Dave’s latest fairy story
    We can sleep easy, knowing with a Tory
    The chances of a real-life vote remain slim
    But at least there’s an heir to the brothers Grimm

  319. 319
    Casual Observer says:

    See SC’s above story about clause 4 to add further weight to your excellent observation.

  320. 320
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    But can still knock peoples block off, and send then through pub windows, as I left one on autumn in the Corwrlds, through window in the wrong directipn, after an excellent scrap with the locals in Bouton-on-the-Water, in the mid 1980s.

    My geordie mate started it, as he always fucking did then, especially in soft southern england – used to really wind himup being there that did.

  321. 321
    old SHEP says:

    Labour =

    nell.

  322. 322
    Ronseal tin says:

    Earlier comment totally silly, you are correct.

    However, when they open the tin and find it empty they are going to be surprised aren’t they ?

  323. 323
    Anonymous says:

    astrology may well be as old as mankind.

    Millionaires don’t use Astrology, billionaires do.
    ― J.P. Morgan

  324. 324
    rumplestiltskin says:

    you’ll never guess my name

  325. 325

    @old SHEP

    Now I am truly confused. I was relying to Sir William. Are you telling me that you and he are the same? I had also thought that he was Sir William Waad who had truncated his moniker due to the automated symposiarch which gives us all so much grief from time to time. Are you also telling me this is not the case?

    Whatever, you are quite correct. We are all getting screwed and it is not in the pleasant sense of the word.

    I know that you are not UEA, otherwise your list would have gone on forever and it would have had to refer to hockey sticks at frequent points.

  326. 326
    Ed's No to Referendum says:

    It was definitely a no at PMQ’s today for Labour.

  327. 327
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    flying at eighty thousand feet, on the overshoot, in an english electric lighning with special trick fuel of the time, put in by respirated ground crew, was an experience, I am sure it was, sending one to the edge of space.

  328. 328
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    YES, song outlines gave to Niki the swede, when she was sixteen, years ago , and she produced this, with me being mentioned several times, Huw, and supposed to be me the other end of some lake. ladies ey?

  329. 329
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    And if you don’t believe me from youtubby, notice how she connects my name to a welsh dragons fire. Ladies ey, they can’t get enough of me. : )

  330. 330
    not a machine says:

    I think you only need to look at the countries where socialism has been run , to answer your question .

    The portriat of a country completely devoid of a social conscience before 1911 is and always was untrue.

    To be fawning to the very people , whose lives there reckless running of the economy have ruined , and saying it is budget cuts , is a disgrace.
    I dont forget that others are to blame not only the socialists , but you have to admit that in terms of creating a decade long mess , labour did it .

  331. 331
    rumplestiltskin says:

    is true ? Hitler was advised by 3 Indian astrologists ?

  332. 332
    rumplestiltskin says:

    all animals feel safe to approach human for assistance wouldn’t that be luverly ?
    referencing dolphin/ diver story

  333. 333
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    and don’t start me on Grimes from Canada! Her youtubby messages are on my old fucked up PC’s hard drive. But I think I set her paganish on her way, amongst others helping her,

  334. 334
    Anonymous says:

    duping the public is a global phenomena. The most prominent example being the seeds of diviseness in the abrahamic religions….did the duping start earlier … and if so how much earlier.

  335. 335
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    and don’t start me on Grimes from Canada! Her youtubby messages are on my old fucked up PC’s hard drive. But I think I set her paganish on her way, amongst others helping her,

  336. 336
    albacore says:

    Come along, Fairy, that aeroplane was a LIGHTNING
    And I’m sure that you didn’t find it at all frightening
    I wonder, perchance, if you ever flew
    In the sadly cancelled TSR2

  337. 337
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    and don’t start me on Grimes from Canada!

  338. 338

    @CO

    These things are all relative I find. When people tell me they are poor and I see them watching 40″ Plasma TVs and with several cars in the drive, OK all on credit, I have another reference point to consider.

    I travel out to West Africa quite a lot and stay with friends in their compounds rather than in hotels. I find it very interesting to witness the approach of some of the poorest people on the face of the planet. They would regard the UK poor as millionaires by comparison.

    Of course they all want to come to the UK and indeed some do. It seldom works out as they are not prepared for the cost of living or for the ready availability of drugs which, if they get caught up in, effectively finishes them. I try to persuade them not to go trying, at the same time, not to undermine their hope.

    The current situation in Conakry for example is horrendous. Power frequently goes and may not come back for three days. Water only flows in the early mornings and is kept in baths. After half a century of communist dictators they finally had reasonably free and fair elections but the situation is so run down and corrupt that it will take years to sort out.

    Yet Guinea has half the world’s bauxite. It has diamonds, gold and every precious commodity you can imagine. The bauxite mines currently lie idle (ignore Wikipedia, it is very badly informed of late). It should be one of the richest countries in the world but is the second poorest (GDP pc) and stands to be overtaken by Sierra Leone, next doors who are recovering slowly from their civil war.

    If only the British poor could see some of this, they would be shocked.

  339. 339

    @CO

    Thеѕе thіngѕ аrе аll rеlаtіvе I fіnd. Whеn pеoplе tеll mе thеy аrе poor аnd I ѕее thеm wаtсhіng 40″ Plаѕmа TVѕ аnd wіth ѕеvеrаl саrѕ іn thе drіvе, OK аll on сrеdіt, I hаvе аnothеr rеfеrеnсе poіnt to сonѕіdеr.

    I trаvеl out to Wеѕt Afrіса quіtе а lot аnd ѕtаy wіth frіеndѕ іn thеіr сompoundѕ rаthеr thаn іn hotеlѕ. I fіnd іt vеry іntеrеѕtіng to wіtnеѕѕ thе аpproасh of ѕomе of thе poorеѕt pеoplе on thе fасе of thе plаnеt. Thеy would rеgаrd thе UK poor аѕ mіllіonаіrеѕ by сompаrіѕon.

    Of сourѕе thеy аll wаnt to сomе to thе UK аnd іndееd ѕomе do. It ѕеldom workѕ out аѕ thеy аrе not prеpаrеd for thе сoѕt of lіvіng or for thе rеаdy аvаіlаbіlіty of drugѕ whісh, іf thеy gеt саught up іn, еffесtіvеly fіnіѕhеѕ thеm. I try to pеrѕuаdе thеm not to go tryіng, аt thе ѕаmе tіmе, not to undеrmіnе thеіr hopе.

    Thе сurrеnt ѕіtuаtіon іn Conаkry for еxаmplе іѕ horrеndouѕ. Powеr frеquеntly goеѕ аnd mаy not сomе bасk for thrее dаyѕ. Wаtеr only flowѕ іn thе еаrly mornіngѕ аnd іѕ kеpt іn bаthѕ. Aftеr hаlf а сеntury of сommunіѕt dісtаtorѕ thеy fіnаlly hаd rеаѕonаbly frее аnd fаіr еlесtіonѕ but thе ѕіtuаtіon іѕ ѕo run down аnd сorrupt thаt іt wіll tаkе yеаrѕ to ѕort out.

    Yеt Guіnеа hаѕ hаlf thе world’ѕ bаuxіtе. It hаѕ dіаmondѕ, gold аnd еvеry prесіouѕ сommodіty you саn іmаgіnе. Thе bаuxіtе mіnеѕ сurrеntly lіе іdlе (іgnorе Wіkіpеdіа, іt іѕ vеry bаdly іnformеd of lаtе). It ѕhould bе onе of thе rісhеѕt сountrіеѕ іn thе world but іѕ thе ѕесond poorеѕt (GDP pс) аnd ѕtаndѕ to bе ovеrtаkеn by Sіеrrа Lеonе, nеxt doorѕ who аrе rесovеrіng ѕlowly from thеіr сіvіl wаr.

    If only thе Brіtіѕh poor сould ѕее ѕomе of thіѕ, thеy would bе ѕhoсkеd.

  340. 340
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    Started with showing them celt british isles music suddenly appearing on youtube in the mid 2000’s, then french and german folk songs, regional from there, and I haven’t heard the last of them yet from them.

    Alison Goldfrapp started it in the 1990’s, then I encorage Little Boots from Blackpool.

    And now I am some fucking pagan blokezed god to them now!

  341. 341
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    canada grimes

  342. 342
    Casual Observer says:

    To get charge to move you need an imbalance. Nature works to keep overall electric potential zero. If you viewed the world from the two dimensional perspective of a charge, then things become clearer. A lake at the top of a mountain remains steady. Place a pipe so water can flow to the bottom, it will drain and the water now sits at the bottom of the mountain in a new lake. What enabled the communication in this case, and caused the water to fall ? The wire is not that different.

  343. 343
    The Cast of The Big Bang Theory says:

    We’ve been in production for five years now, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Apparently there are enough people who like to watch us that the occasional philistine like yourself is not something we worry about.

  344. 344
    EU Watch says:

    Here is a cartoon from the ECB about price stability, made some years back.

    Just for fun:

  345. 345
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    no. It as crap apparently. TSR2 was mace out of tinsel, and was frankly, a crap aircraft.

    Fantasy bollox it was, as shown by future aircraft afterwards successful, that did not look at all like that load of bollocks.

    So forget the misty eyed bollox – it was a crap aircraft, right out of Gerry Andersons Thunderbirds – ‘trying to remember the right word’, it is at the tip of my tongue GOT IT! totally unpractible was the TSR”, a total fantasy aircraft.

  346. 346
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    TSR2 would have been a nightmare to try and keep up in the air. English Electric Lightning was bad enough, with it’s dodgy mega high pressure hydraulics, that used to have ultra high pressure leaks, and take peoples fingers off when they looked for the leak. High pressure hydraulic squirting out, yes, sliced though body parts. Seen to be believed.

  347. 347
    mr sensible ( you'll never guess my name) says:

    dear big bang theory cast you are a soap rather than a documentary

  348. 348
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    Lara? Was going to call my second daughter this, but it didn’t happen.

  349. 349
    mr sensible ( you'll never guess my name) says:

    not meaning to be rude but you really have to explain the theory in a sensible fashion. for myself I just have to ask how do ghosts fit in with the big bang theory to see how the big bang theory looks silly, for example

  350. 350
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    Siân is my first one, by the way – well, it had to be, didn’t it, welsh Jane pronounced the same way as the french pronounce Jane – SHHHHaaane

  351. 351
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    kiddies look like jap Marine Boy, when I was young. OK, manga too, then.

  352. 352
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    Right! I am not bolloxed, and so time for a bit of food, telly, them sleep.

    Hope again I have posted enpough Guido for Tory HQ tp scratch their heads think what is said here is that important, taxing their unimaginative bonces, trying to understand the man down on the street from them, the non-tax dodgers from them.

    ACH -Cameron is a prize nobbo, and if anyone can’t see it, I feel sad for you. He is not the future, he isn’t even the past. He is some shithouse rich person spouting shit which I will well recommend never ever to go into battle with. as per,

  353. 353
    rumplestiltskin says:

    dear ex raf fuckwit
    please fuck off

    thanks in advance

  354. 354
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    ? I am bolloxed! strange fucking site – tory arsebreath sad infested. They really do need something to be really worried about. The fuckbreaths.

    Have a click buttonon the side of scren to record before entering comments, and it is funny how they are different afterwards.

  355. 355
    Ex RAF fairy says:

    children, overgrown pure and simple children

  356. 356
    ?? says:

    So get professional accountants to join law firms, then the advice becomes “legal”?

  357. 357
    green ink says:

    wilson … liked his gannex lined with a rare marcia bird pelt and the scillies

    callaghan … couldn’t control his union paymasters and met margaret

    kinnock … when his red hair was around and he let go naturally he could have gone somewhere but same story and dead ducked long ago .. on the hoof yesterday backpeddling by rote

    smith … he had something about him that could be respected but he couldn’t conceal his dogma

    blair … has to be credited for getting labour elected on the ’18 years of tory rule’ tagline and ‘time for a change’ strategy but a man whose credibilty dropped dead when the dodgey dossier revelations blew the spin machine apart. I don’t actually think blair was or is dishonourable but he was very unwise to be surrounded by such rampant forces and blunder us into iraq with the unfortunate but in reality totally unsuited to be president bush 2.
    I accept they were both totally unprepared for 9/11 and they were unlucky that these events shaped their profiles in retrospect but thats the time when strength in character is the only thing you can run on and blair was not strong enough to stop the train once it gathered pace. Theres a reason the middle east has a history of brutal regimes.. the arab spring attests thus.

    brown ..without question the author of a complex web of socialist hypocricy at it’s best arrogant to the last and still lacking the spine to show his head in the mainstream of british politics….and that says everything about the man who surrounded himself with a set of pandering talentless deadbeats many of which still sit there on a one nation byline blended with epidemic level amnesia.

    Miliband .. not up to the challenge ..never was and never will be…and again terminally surrounded by a lacklustre team with not a single rising star amongst them.. the only perceptable gleam remains in the perpetual sneer of greeneye they must run through the narrative…the last card they have as usual.

  358. 358
    Spam Patrol says:

    I see that sad fvcker from Wales is back, spamming these boards with shite again.

  359. 359
    CHRIST ON A BIKE! says:

    I think this is the defining moment for the EU. It is the beginning of the end for the dream/nightmare of EU federalism. Not just in the UK, but across the EU.

    Cameron knows that there will be a snowball effect. There is massive EU scepticism in other major countries. Just look at the no votes on the EU constitution. It will be a case of people asking “if the UK can do it, why can’t we?)

  360. 360
    Albert says:

    Of course the sun orbits Earth – everything is relative.
    And, for our delight, the other planets dance along complex spiral trajectories.

  361. 361

    Can’t afford a 100TB solid state memory rack just at the moment?

    Write it to your DNA. (Just wonder where they graft the USB connection to… :-()

  362. 362
    Who Want's Some! says:

    Exactly right, this is Dave in pure PR mode. There is no substance here at all he can’t deliver on any of this. All he’s done is shut up a few EuroSceptics in his own party, grab the news agenda for a few days by looking tough on the EU and (the most useful part) made Labour look like bunch of corrupt EU troughers they are. But you won’t get to vote in 2017 or any other time. The EU is our political elites dream they will never give it up till they are removed from power.

  363. 363
    Bootleg says:

    Certainly a very convincing dive anyway! Hazard should have kicked the dim plick a bit harder.

  364. 364
    Bootleg says:

    Merky has an election coming up soon which she may not win. Nice of the frogs to offer to roll out the red carpet for us on the way out.

  365. 365
    Bootleg says:

    Try the Pentonville B&B.

  366. 366
    rebekah aka nellnewman says:

    +100

  367. 367
    Extremely ancient seafarer says:

    Not all of us have been in the slightest bit brainwashed. Many of us (especially the older ones) saw through it right from the start. Why do you think Labour scum politicos deliberately destroyed our once excellent educational system?

  368. 368
    Extremely ancient seafarer says:

    … and if Dave loses or fails to win an outright majority in 2015? Then what?

    Wake up peeps, this is just another bucketful of doodoo tumbling around your ears. Oh, better start learning Romanian as it looks like you are going to be needing it.

  369. 369
    Dilly Dreamboat says:

    Is it Pike?

  370. 370
    Dilly Dreamboat says:

    .. and as people and things have been dying off for millions of years, isn’t the case that heaven must be pretty full by now?

  371. 371
    (I don't need no doctor) says:

    In politics you need to be ahead of the game and have various scenarios to match events. Do labour really expect their twaddle of “we don’t know this or that, or what will happen in a years time”. Policy is planned way ahead.
    Labour under Miliband are even more dumbed down than under Blair or Brown. Labour have no policies, only spite and negativity.
    As for Flint, she is not even a good liar, and behaves like a twelve year old kid in a school playground.

  372. 372

    Like shooting fish in a barrel, isn’t it?

    What was that braying sound I just heard from the bench?

  373. 373
    albacore says:

    If my beady old memory serves me right
    TSR2 gave Labour such a great fright
    They used big artillery on the airframes
    And even descended to jig-smashing games
    Because, in those days, there were still real Tories
    Who would, in power, have restored its glories

  374. 374
    Unemployed and skint in Birtley Colliery says:

    If I have followed the argument correctly MS Flinch is saying Libor do not want to nail their colors to an economic proposition for 2015 because so much can change .

    Dave on the otherhand is quite happy to nail his colours to the mast now but he is keeping a few “get out of jail cards” close to his chest to be used if necessary after 2015.

    In the meantime for the period 2013-2015 I would like to have a job although neither of them seem too concerned about this.

    After all I am a common or garden slacker .

  375. 375
    Smig says:

    LibLabCon = No referendum.

    Vote UKIP.

  376. 376
    Beards for Politicians and celebrities R us says:

    A fine analysis Sir.

  377. 377
    Beards for Politicians and celebrities R us says:

    Oh I dont know, I particularly enjoyed non scientists like Johann Hari spouting confidently on man made global warming and such like. It makes a change from hearing someone who knows what they are actually talking about.

  378. 378
    Smig says:

    Window dressing to hide what’s really going on behind the curtain.

  379. 379
    The Sheikh Of Arabeeee says:

    Up the arse, definitley.

    Never been a fan of that DP thing meself. You’re too close to the other fucker’s ballbag for my liking.

  380. 380
    metaltrack says:

    @ Schrödinger’s cat says:
    January 24, 2013 at 12:25 am

    I too can relate to seeing the “poor” in the UK compared to those of overseas.

    In the past I have taken the “road less travelled” in parts of Asia, and former satellite states of the USSR.

    I returned to the UK to be met with with occasional potholes, well-stocked shops and the ability to voice my opinion about the government of the day.

    The “poor” here in UK and Western Europe have it very comfortable. Only the perceived fear of poverty; a game played very well by our alleged “betters”, maintains this divisive battle amongst ourselves.

    We have vast reserves of coal, rainwater and land. The UK will not starve.

    For all of the skulduggery and backhanded dealings done by Westminster, Holyrood, and Senedd the UK is a very hospitable country.

  381. 381
    Len MaClusky says:

    If I want to here Milliband’s opinion on the EU I’ll give it to him first

  382. 382
    Casual Observer says:

    @SC: Agree across the board with your observations. Came across similar in Latin America on my travels. A drive from Lima due North is very revealing about what real poverty is all about: Those in the UK claiming or rather being told that they are poor is b/s.

    Curiously though, the folk out there seemed happier than here, possibly due to the lack of 40″ TVs.

  383. 383
    hoi poloi says:

    White British are now an ethnic minority, 45%, in London.

    This ain’t politics mofo, this is genocide.

  384. 384
    UKIP - the way forward says:

    A pretty little girl named Suzy was sitting on the pavement in front of her home.
    Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing “FREE KITTENS.”
    Suddenly a line of big cars pulled up beside her. Out of the lead car stepped a grinning man.
    “Hi there little girl, I’m the leader of the Conservatice Party, David Cameron What do you have in the basket?” he asked.
    “Kittens ” little Suzy said.
    “How old are they?” asked Cameron.
    Suzy replied, “They’re so young, their eyes aren’t even open yet.”
    “And what kind of kittens are they?”
    “Conservative supporters,” answered Suzy with a smile.
    Cameron was delighted. As soon as he returned to his car, he called his PR chief and told him about the little girl and the kittens.
    Recognizing the perfect photo op, the two of them agreed that he should return the next day and in front of the assembled media have the little girl talk about her discerning kittens.
    So the next day, after Cameron had delivered his big speech on the EU, Suzy was again on the pavement outside her house, with her basket of “FREE KITTENS.”
    When Cameron’s motorcade pulled up, this time followed by vans from BBC, ITV, CNN and Sky News, cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up, then Cameron got out of his limo and walked over to little Suzy.
    “Hello, again,” he said, “I’d love it if you would tell all my friends out there what kind of kittens you’re giving away.”
    “Yes sir,” Suzy said. “They’re UKIP supporters.”
    Taken by surprise, Dave stammered, “But…but…yesterday, you told me they were CONSERVATIVE SUPPORTERS.”
    Little Suzy smiled and said, “I know. But today, they have their eyes open.”

  385. 385
    The savant10.4 highway patrol says:

    May. Be. But she. S still. The best looker in. Parliament.
    Give us another. Flash. Caroline. !!!

  386. 386
    Anonymous says:

    Labour know that most of the people who vote for them, are not for coming out of the EU. Many don’t even know what it is ,and many are immigrants and it works in their favour. Do the Scots or the Welsh want a referendum? It seems not. All of the parties they support are Europhiles. No wonder Labour are complacent, they have every reason to be. Same applies to LibDem voters. It goes without saying they’re all pro EU. Or just plain ignorant.

  387. 387
    Hugh Mann says:

    Spade ? Are you considering burying her?


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