January 10th, 2013

Breaking: Liam Fox Slams Cameron for “Social Engineering”
Former Defence Secretary Goes Tonto on Gay Marriage

Liam Fox has used the oldest trick in the book – a letter to a concerned constituent – to slam David Cameron’s gay marriage plans:

“I do not believe this is simply an anti-discrimination measure. If it were, it would carry much greater support in a nation whose greatest characteristic is its fairness. This smacks of a form of social engineering of which Conservatives should be instinctively wary. I do not doubt the sincerity of the proponents of this measure and think talk of attempts to purposefully antagonise traditional Conservatives is far-fetched. However, I believe these proposals are divisive, ill thought through and constitutionally wrong. That is why I will vote against them in the House of Commons.”

Here is a copy of the letter:

Just last night Osborne, Shapps and Grayling were chinwagging with the former Defence Secretary at his New Year drinks.



  1. 1
    Nigel Farage says:

    Welcome to UKIP MR Fox.

  2. 2
    Anonymous says:

    “David Cameron’s gay marriage”

    That’s news!

  3. 3
    Kebab Time says:

    If you oppose same sex marriage then i suggest you dont marry anyone of the same sex.

  4. 4
    Little Willy Haig says:

    Foxy ?

  5. 5
    les says:

    Not another “concerned constituent” – has he/she been checked out this time?

  6. 6
    Welshracer says:

    Dear what?

    typical doctor who can’t write properly.

    and it looks likes its been signed by W**king

  7. 7
    Liam says:


    I am putting this letter in the Public Domain

  8. 8
    Ah! Monika 2013 +1 says:

    Cameron will be taking up fox hunting again.

  9. 9
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    Gay marriage plans?

    Thought this was a tactic just to fill the papers up with, in cojunction with your media London living arsebreaths there where you live, Fox, you happy snapper.

  10. 10
    UKID says:

    You’re dead right

  11. 11
    Tachybaptus says:

    The phrase ‘social engineering of which Conservatives should be instinctively wary’ is particularly well aimed, especially after Cameron’s attempts at a ‘Big Society’ have gone tits up.

  12. 12
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    Christ, there is something deranged about Liam Fox – just look into his eyes.

  13. 13
    North of Watford says:

    Just got back from 3 day trip to Londonistan. Never again. What a fucking shithole.

  14. 14
    Ah! Monika 2013 +1 says:

    Nick Clegg: I’d like Cyril Smith back… but only if he is cleared of wrongdoing.

  15. 15
    Ah ffs says:

    Picking up cast off’s, not the way to get the people voting for you.

  16. 16
    F-nickly cleansed Luton, Slough and Leicester says:

    Hissing LibLabCon infighting. Frankly, who gives a sh1te any more what these scum are arguing about. Might as well be ‘How many angels you can cram on a pinhead’ for all the relevance they have outside the Westminster bubble.

    Here’s a New Year message to all the LibLabCon and their anti-English w@nker supporters – F-off and die.

  17. 17
    oooh, you are awful... says:

    A spat with Adam Werritty?

  18. 18

    Not quite where the nexus of the argument lies, is it?

  19. 19
    Anonymous says:

    Getting confusing now, do gays even support gay marriage?

    What about equal rights for bisexuals? Can they have a straight marriage as well as gay marriage?

    If it is to do with equality then Cameron should stop any form of discrimination and let gays marry in places of God(s) as well.

  20. 20
    Mrs Slocombe says:

    F-nickly cleansed Luton, Slough and Leicester is spot on. My pussy and I agree.

  21. 21
    Anonymous says:

    Dr Fox was so keen to help his friend that in 2002, he let him live in his London flat. The mortgage on the property, near London Bridge, was being paid by the taxpayer as part of Dr Fox’s parliamentary expenses.

    Dr Fox has said he allowed his friend to “use the spare room” for “a number of months” in 2002 and 2003. Mr Werritty named the property as his home address when he registered his own business. The 34 year-old is listed at Companies House as the director or secretary of seven different companies.


  22. 22
    Old Blue Eyes says:

    Could not agree more with you Liam. You must be a Conservative.

  23. 23

    Is it not more a case of Big Tits and Up Society?

  24. 24
    MI6 says:

    Social Free for ALL.. What about marrying Pets.. I have a lovely Bull Terrier.. Is Foxy not a USA goon? With all that buying of Yankee Weapons Kit,, Does make you wonder

  25. 25
    MI6 says:

    What the Fu-k happened to Tradition? Better be careful.. Its a bit like the Not Flying of the Union Flag.. Its amazing how the Politcal Elite can be wrong footed by the Masses.

  26. 26
    Libertarian says:

    Well said Doctor Fox.

    The passive aggressive denial of moral value which is trying to be imposed on this issue is abhorrent and should be pointed out.

    That in this case the state is also overtly breaching the constitutional rubicon which separates itself from Church is also worth noting as this does disservice to all parties concerned.

    One hopes that more valid challenges to the amoral imposition of liberal agenda which has so fractured society are raised moving forward. The reconstruction of a free, fair and honorable society should be the primary prerogative of all right minded people here on in.

  27. 27
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    Said it before and i will say it again, Kebab and Cat, I couldn’t care an ounce if a hedghog and a squirrel got married in my local church.

    Can’t see what the fuss is about, truthfully.

  28. 28
    Owen Jones says:

    Its like a laserlight,shining down,shining down on me.

  29. 29
    Anonymous says:

    I often wonder if it is all just a game to some. Do they dream up the most bizarre and extremes solutions just to see if they can get away with it. It is like living in a country run by practical jokers. Or worse, career suicide riskers. No one wants the job to continue, only the rewards afterwards. Its time we removed the MPs pensions.

    Or are the chemical stimulants not giving enough of a release anymore. They need to play with peoples lives instead, like a cult leader takes pleasure out of warping the followers views.

    They are meant to be steering the ship through the waves, not pounding the will to live out of all the rowers.

  30. 30
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    so-o-ord it… : )

    Good service, wasn’t it vicar? The church is coining it…

  31. 31
    illogical says:

    “Going Tonto” would suggest bareback riding Guido.

    Only a fool jumps shouting Geronimo these days without a parachute.

  32. 32
    Living in 96.98 percent white Merseyside says:

    I haven’t been there since 1998 and that was bad enough.

    And that was before the floodgates opened.

  33. 33

    Social Engineering? Is Fox a complete imbecile-what the bloody hell does he think the smoking ban was all about then because its got piss all to do with health !

  34. 34
    From several threads back says:

    What about marrying pizza ?

  35. 35

    Being a non-theist, neither could I frankly.

    However that still misses the point.

  36. 36
    Reductio ad absurdum says:

    Would gay marriage mean I can marry myself ?

  37. 37
    Pink Vote. says:

    It can be viewed as social engineering. It can be viewed as modernising the party to embrace the pinks and introduce them to the Tory Politics. One of the annoyances about the old Conservative Party was it was considered bigotted in its views on sexual politics. Cameron is determined not to alienate gays and alienate the tories from the pink votes. That can only be a good thing for the party.

    Anyone who thinks gay marriage is a threat to traditional family values is misguided in their thinking. The biggest threat to traditional family values is the ‘Shameless’ Culture that was shamelessly created and promoted under the last Labour government.

  38. 38
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    But, what point? Just us human point? What makes us so special that we should have a “point”, Cat?

  39. 39
    Anonymous says:

    The concept of gay marriage jeopardises child welfare.
    The concept of gay marriage is anti love, for mothers represent love.

    another example of the focus being on the benefit of the few.

  40. 40
    The Lone Ranger says:

    Chemo-Sabe’ ;)

  41. 41
    Democracy says:

    You are less that 2% of the total representation – who cares ?

  42. 42
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    Pink pound talks, and we should all embrace it – I did, years ago. HEY – stop touching my arse, you very naughty boy,

  43. 43
    2015 Conservative Election Campaign Redux says:

  44. 44
    Psychologist says:

    Provided it’s the Real Thing, and not just a crush.

  45. 45
    Mary Whitehouse says:

    Dr Fox acts like a woman scorned since he lost his job , wake me up when he has got something sensible to say

  46. 46

    Was the concerned constituent named Adam?

    Fox has got a touch of the Palin about him. His career will probably go as far as hers too.

  47. 47
    Narcissist says:

    Oh – it’s the real thing alright….

  48. 48
    3% prefer not to say says:

    Erm. 5%. More in higher socio-economic, degree educated groups.

  49. 49
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    white man, with their iron horses, went thataway,

  50. 50
    More emotional pish not based on clear thinking says:

    Some utterfucking nonsense being shat out today over the amount of food wasted in our society. The fucking nonsense in particular involves the assumption that food wasted here results in starvation elsewhere ! Now can someone explain to me how anyone eating everything they buy or chucking out a portion of it out here has any bearing on what happens in countries and societies which have difficulty in feeding their populations ?

  51. 51
    A different political issue says:

    Probably best to keep quiet on the resources misallocated to homosexuals.

    If the heterosexual majority who are struggling to feed their children wake up they may just demand a redistribution.

  52. 52
    Fan says:

    Ripping Yarns was very good, but the travel stuff is really boring.

  53. 53
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    iron horses, kemosabee,

  54. 54

    He should form his own party with Andrew Mitchell, another scorned Tory.
    be good to have a teaparty here. Somewhere for all the extremists to hang out together. But what to call it?

    The Teabaggers ?
    The fifty shades of earl grey party?
    Cutty Sarkers ?
    ‘Outed of outrage’?
    The special deliverence party?

    The last one’s useful as Toynbee has still got boxes and boxes of stickers and campaign buttons in her garage marked SDP. I bet she’d let them go cheap..

  55. 55
    Agreed says:

    US estimating 3-4% increase this year due to bad harvests past couple of years, that is a gross underestimate IMHO.

    Not much food goes to waste. That which does is only wasted because it is not fit for human or animal consumption.

    If perhaps the UK was not trapped by EU trade deals and CAP then we could produce more food, export to those hungry nations our surplus and perhaps improve our balance of trade figures to boot.

    Just another reason for voting UKIP.

  56. 56
    The Speaker says:

    I am unable to comment as to whether Sally or myself are in possession of a Onesie

  57. 57
    More votes says:

    Yeah 2% of the electorate is pink but the % of the electorate who support principles such as equality and fairness etc is lot a higher and they are being embraced by the party too.

  58. 58
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    make tidy hairdressers, but they put to much of a quiff on me, as I comb it down as I leave the shop…

  59. 59
    Pressure group naming suggestion says:

    Sucked Off ?

    Owen may be able to help them out with that.

  60. 60

    Fine. I understand (or think I do, what you are saying now.)

    You and I hold belief systems that prevent us personally getting upset over this. There are millions more people of a different belief system to ours who have a more traditional view of marriage, indeed our host is one such.

    As long as we are happy to think what we do without interference from others, then so must they be, if we are not to be accused of inconsistency.

    Marriage has, for some four millennia, been primarily the province of the church with only a recent (comparatively) interest registered by the state.

    Who is the state to say what a religion may recognise (or, by the same token, not recognise) as an acceptable marriage. The proposals have turned 180° in the last few weeks. But they should not be about the church at all! To leave it alone is not only morally correct, it is politically so.

    I have argued consistently for at least the last three decades for the church to become disestablished from our state. If it were, then this form of interference would not be occurring.

  61. 61
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    and happy snapper is another way of saying a cock smoker, if I have lost you.

  62. 62
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    oh christ Cat, did I ask you to write a book? Look outside, that is all we need to see.

  63. 63
    Vote UKIP says:

    Lone Ranger:”Yep”.

  64. 64
    U K I P Convert says:

    +35M !!

  65. 65
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    And Cat, my Aunt Phyllis was a, ahem!, fanny botherer, but she was never ever a danger to society – sure there are, some, girls left that are AC, altenative current left, that help grow our population to unsustainable levels.

    So don’t panic.

  66. 66
    Vote UKIP says:

    The EU had to impose rules against straight cucumbers in case it offended gay people.

  67. 67

    If someone murdered your closest relative and all the investigating police officer did was to tell you to look outside – that was all you needed to see – I would imagine you would not be too satisfied.

    I answered you in good faith. Maybe you are not amenable to reason?

  68. 68
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    The concept is knubnut stupid in your head – go and chew on a daily mail you pathetic character.

  69. 69
    Fan of the Cat says:

    The cat is on the money.

    If you do open your eyes what do you see when you look outside ?

    I see a very shabby grey world of people who are no longer sure which way is up or right from wrong.

    Marriage is one of the few institutions less which provides clear direction. Restoration of this state of affairs is priority and this particular line in the sand should not be crossed.

    The left liberal brainwashing is somewhat powerful, but when reckoning comes a knocking, as it is starting to, the backlash will be merciless.

    Look carefully at what is really going on with those who follow the peaceful faith, and I mean look really carefully, and you will understand precisely what this means. :-D

  70. 70
    rebekah says:

    Off topic so apologies but I see the US is saying if Britain comes out of the EU foreign investment will up sticks and go to the continent.

    +++=Laugh++++ Really ??!!

    France, Spain or Greece are a more attractive investment proposition than London and the UK ? Really??!!

  71. 71
    Vistaprint says:

    Mr Fox, we have been trying to contact Mr Werrity to see if he requires any more cards but he doesn’t seem to reply.

  72. 72
    Ohama Beach says:

    After we have napalmed the UK for leaving the EU yes.

  73. 73

    Orange Pekoe Bookers?

  74. 74
    Hugh Grunt says:

    Darling-jeeling ?

  75. 75
    Vote UKIP says:


    Now some dodgy European politicians are shitting their pants at the thought of Brexit. Strangely Guido has been remarkably quiet on the important subject of who should be telling Britain what they should do.

  76. 76
    Agreed says:

    I thought that was banana’s and also to do with Ch!na ?

  77. 77

    I am just too busy to get round to it.

  78. 78
    US Watch says:

    We are still not certain about your birth cert dude.

  79. 79
    Guido Watch says:

    There was a speccie article posted up the top earlier, so not much to say here.

    The link was this though:


    Read, enjoy, relax.

  80. 80
    Ah! Monika 2013 +1 says:

    James’ Joke Book ‏@Boskettjokes
    I’ve just heard that Rolf Harris is dyslexic. ….. Rofl.

  81. 81
    EU Watch says:

    EU Politicians should be shitting bricks over the IMF austerity cock-up ‘appology':


    People have been maimed for much less…

  82. 82
    Noose Watch says:

    So, I can fit Draghi in about 11, Barroso after lunch, when did you say Rompuy would be ready ?

  83. 83
    Obama says:

    Which one?

  84. 84
    'uncle' says:

    I bet you say that to all the boys.

  85. 85
    Ah! Monika 2013 +1 says:

    Think of the cost…of a divorce

  86. 86
    'uncle' says:

    I bet you say that to all the boys.

  87. 87
    Ah! Monika 2013 +1 says:

    And..how would you consumate the marriage? Fuck yourself?

  88. 88
    Anonymous says:

    Says taffy, who, shagging sheep on a regular basis is already half way to being gay.

  89. 89
    Anonymous says:


  90. 90
  91. 91
    Reductio ad absurdum says:

    I am a woman.

  92. 92
    A measure of change says:

    25 years ago, we lived in fear of London being nuked by Russia.

    Today, we’d all welcome it.

  93. 93
    Jimmy says:

    No, too easy.

  94. 94
    Tay King-dePisse says:

    Considering his previous portfolio = “Camo-mile.”
    On second thought, perhaps the public have had all the “Camo” they could reasonably be expected to stomach.

  95. 95
    retardEd Miliband says:

    Can I be your poodle? Pleeeeeaaaathe let me be your poodle!

    We can bomb Iran. They’re being beathtly to Ithreal.

  96. 96
    EU Watch says:

    With the demographic there, so would most of Europe.

  97. 97
    U K I P Convert says:

    ahhh This PM’s Social Engineering………..by the claimed “Heir to Bliar”…..

    all of this ‘helpful agenda’ was laid out in great detail by The Master & @

    who’s feet DDD worships each & every day

    as he follows the exact same footsteps !!

  98. 98
    US Watch says:

    Ed – you need to catch up.

    Nuking Iran is off the table. It is back to straight talking off the hip negotiating and covert nastiness until we have the finances sorted out.

    !srael’s on board with us. Don’t tell me they left you off the bus again ?

  99. 99
    wash my mind out with soapy water says:

    Is it just me or does the above picture look a little… suggestive

  100. 100
    Gordon Brown says:

    I am the spanner of the New World Order.

  101. 101
    Sheep Joke says:

    Get ewe.

  102. 102
    Sir William says:

    So……why is he pretending to be a tail-gunner?

  103. 103
    Inchworm says:

    I think you wear a halfsie, John

  104. 104
    Sir William says:

    Die Chymische Hochzeit des David Kameron?

  105. 105
    Consolidated Tinfoil, Inc says:

    Sales are up.

  106. 106
    Sir William says:

    Marriage pre-dates both the State and organised religion. It’s a fundamental and spontaneous part of human social organisation and Parliament should confine itself to recognising and, to the minimum extent necessary, regulating it.

  107. 107
    Anonymous says:

    Fox talks bollocks (and takes three pages to say what he could have said in three sentences).

    Shock, Horror.

  108. 108
    I Fist my own Arse by Using my Own Head says:

    Foxy with furry balls that melt in the mouth.

  109. 109
    Rebbekah Red Bush says:

    It’s easy. Make everyone have a civil ceremony and anyone who then wants to get the religious baloney trip over to the church. Problem solved.

    Anyway, i thought Fox was a shirt-lifter and would be all in favour of legitimising his arrangements?

  110. 110
    unemployment: a price worth paying to save the euro. says:

    Greek youth unemployment edges toward 60pc
    Joblessness among Greek youth edged closer to 60pc in October, figures from the state statistics agency revealed on Thursday, with the country’s unemployment rate hitting a new high of 26.8pc in October

  111. 111
    unemployment: a price worth paying to please the germans says:

    part 2

    Greek youth unemployment edges toward 60pc
    Joblessness among Greek youth edged closer to 60pc in October, figures from the state statistics agency revealed on Thursday, with the country’s unemployment rate hitting a new high of 26.8pc in October

  112. 112
    The Starving People of Africa says:

    Thank you for eating all your chips. We feel much better now!

  113. 113

    Cameron has just said yesterday in parliament that he has not been chasing any foxes.

  114. 114
    Ex-Conservative voter says:

    Cameron ‘might’ give us a referendum in 2018??

    We pay £19.2billion p/a to the EU. From now until his ‘cast iron guaranteed’ referendum in 2018, Cameron will have frittered-away £115.2billion. £115.2billion that we’ll have had to borrow.

    And membership of the EU means we have to let a whole chunk of 29 million Bulgarians (more than half of Bulgarians live in grinding poverty) and Romanians into Britain as of 1st Jan 2014. WE have less than a year before we are swamped.

    Cameron is insane. Everyone who supports him is insane.

  115. 115
    Anonymous says:

    To be fair, it seems more like “Wanky” which appears more apt.

  116. 116
    The Ottoman Empire says:

    When we were in charge, we could always find a use for the Greek boys.

  117. 117
    left wing, right wing, it's all the same bird! says:

    Gay Marriage…. only relevent to approx 5% of the population, why is it even on the agenda?

    Is it the only Politically correct way to curb population growth.?

    The biggest threat to us all imho.
    (Worlds Pop tripled in my lifetime (early 40’s now))

    Wars and Natural disasters aren’t killing enough plebs!
    (wow! who’d have thought Toe-nail Bliar was such a great humanitarian? ok ok the war part, then again, immigration/building on flood plains maybe they’ll start drowning soon too)

    Invisible friend believers of all clubs (especially old Poppy in the Vatican) promoting big families.

    A current Paradox, those who should procreate choosing not to,
    those who really shouldn’t….. popping them out like Ting tong with her ping pong.

  118. 118
    Reality check / Better demonstration of what to do with this policy says:

  119. 119
    Interesting Factoid says:

    The population argument doesn’t hold any relevance to this issue.

    Not for any silly trendy reason other than that the rate of population growth has been slowing considerably. This appears to be happening naturally without interfering with marriage.

    Just an FYI. (The figures can be X-Checked)

  120. 120
    Ron Davies says:

    I want to suck your cock so much

  121. 121
    Ron Davies says:

    I want to suck your cock so much.

  122. 122
    Ron Davies says:

    I want to suck your cock so much..

  123. 123
    World Watch says:

    Africa’s not doing too bad for food at the moment.

    Haiti is a very different story though…

  124. 124
    Ron Davies says:

    I want to suck your cock so much…

  125. 125
    Ron Davies says:

    I want to suck your cock so much….

  126. 126
    David ‘ich-bin-ein-frankfurter’ Cameron says:

    But I’m promoting gay marriage, I’m pissing all your money away to the EU mafia and Indians who don’t need it …..
    How could you be so ungrateful ?

  127. 127

    @Sir William
    There is no recorded historical basis to justify your first sentence so it can only be a supposition. In any event, you changed the terms by referring to organised religion where I had considered the old testament approach which probably started off as less structured if one looks back into the Abrahamic scriptures as far as Exodus or before. Agree with the second sentence regarding the fundamentality and spontaneity but would add a cautionary if at all to your minimum extent necessary.

  128. 128
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    so we have a couple of gays in our family – it’s not against the law, is it?

  129. 129
    stun says:

    I can only just live with myself. Marriage would be out of the question.

  130. 130
    Marion the Cat says:

    Would it not be like that already if it were the case. We are being duped again, Cameron has friends in low places and a decent job offer in the EU as soon as he can throw off the yoke of Prime Ministership. And by Christ he is trying so very, very hard.

  131. 131
    'uncle' says:

    I bet you say that to all the boys.

  132. 132
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    then always of course, is the later aged harem discovery.

    MOTHER! what are you doing to that lady?!? and where’s my tea…

  133. 133
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    i’d shag anything in front of me – Dave Cee turns me on in a peculiar way.

  134. 134
    Dougie says:

    Tories have a free vote. So how is Fox going Tonto?

  135. 135

    What makes us so special that we should have a “point”, Cat?

    OK. Why are you bothering to post here at all if you don’t have a point?

    I don’t give a monkeys if your belief is way different to mine but not to hold a view at all is not only perverse, it is dishonest, even if only to yourself.

  136. 136
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    Talking of chips, a mate of mind has delivered me cod and chips to me when he was passing.

    Now that is what you call friends, since he knew on my birthday I was pushing the boat out and getting totally totally plastered today.

    Song for him,

  137. 137
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    hmmm, yes. ALLAH? my arse.

  138. 138
    Ron Davies says:

    I want to suck your cock – so much

  139. 139
    Hugh are you, ok says:

    don’t see much blood and bone and guts spouting about, that I have noticed in my experience with such?

    But any religious followers is only good as the followers.

  140. 140
    Flock you says:

    No surprise there then

  141. 141
    I've come out of the closet...yes...iim....heterosexual (sorry) says:

    No wonder the toffs don’t want Fox hunting banned

  142. 142
    jimbo says:

    No need for such bad language ! disgusting, own up, which politician are you ?

  143. 143

    You may be interested (or not!) to know that I have just unpacked my Karl Marx and Frederick Engels: Collected Works, in 3 volumes, and put them on my library shelves.

    I acquired these since I emigrated and have read some, but not all of them. I have to say that I was not terribly swayed, which will probably come as a huge disappointment to you. But I did try to understand their arguments which, like so many others, are persuasive to start with…

  144. 144
    Splodge in the shower says:

    And who fucking cares anyway?

  145. 145
    Blimey says:

    The notion that homosexuals/bisexuals who work and pay taxes just like everyone else should not be entitled to be *legally* married is ridiculous. We pander to weird beliefs from all over the world but not apparently to the right of two indigenous tax paying consenting adults to marry?

    Have Canada, Sweden, Denmark all countries where same sex marriage is legal been ruined by same sex marriage? Perhaps we want to emulate countries like Uganda, Zimbabwe, Nigeria where traditional values still prevail? How many would choose to have their loved ones living in these bastions of traditional values?

  146. 146
    Anonymous says:

    At last someone talking a bit of sense. Well said Mr Fox.

  147. 147
    Mandleboys of Fondlefundement says:

    He really does want to suck my cock sooo much…

  148. 148
    All Pine Cus In says:


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