January 8th, 2013

Labour On the Wrong Side of the Argument

lab-wagesToday Labour are forcing a vote on welfare reform and the strange thing about it is both the Tories and Labour are happy with the dividing line. Labour’s position is that they want a freeze on public sector pay and to raise benefits – hence the Tory attack poster this morning.

Labour argue that welfare reforms will take money from in work benefit recipents – strivers. IDS argued this morning that since Brown made 90% of workers welfare recipients that is inevitable. In an example this weekend the Observer warned that in-work welfare recipients could lose up to £470 per annum. Ignoring that the tax threshold hike will largely cancel out and compensate for that loss. Taking people off benefits and out of tax – ending Gordon Brown’s madly wasteful money-go-round…

Yvette Cooper and Ed Balls will lose their child benefit today, though with a joint income of some £130,000 they should be able to cope. Millionaires Ed and Justine Miliband probably won’t even notice it is gone with their £400,000 plus income. Labour have to sell on the doorstep paying welfare benefits to millionaires and raising benefits higher than workers’ wages. They think it can be spun as a vote winner…


108 Comments

  1. 1
    • 14
      V1le Labour ruined my Country says:

      This is typical of Labour supporting their Northern sponger vote.

      Like

      • 35
        The Working Class says:

        1% of fuck all is fuck all
        2% of fuck all is fuck all
        3% of fuck all is fuck all

        What dividing line?…there is none.

        Just more pantomime politics for the great unwashed.

        Like

        • 50
          Gay Fawkes says:

          Nooo!!! Please continue to read my crap, Izzy-funded blog and continue to believe in any actual difference between the liblabcon traitors, as your country is sold to the bankers and overrun by the third world!

          Like

          • David Cameron types always shits on North of England says:

            Thought benefits were on the line between living and total abject poverty. Tell me if I am wrong.

            Anyone working will just have to miss one holiday away a year, and cook more food at home – bangers and mash with gravy is a fine meal and is cheap as chips.

            Like

      • 44
        Butch Dave says:

        Will none of you disgusting heterosexual pervert plebs think of my gay huskies and the Global Warming caused heat stroke they’re suffering? My single wish is to see them in a Gay Marriage before the rising sea levels drown them.

        http://www.reagancoalition.com/articles/2013/20130107010-greatest-snow.html

        Like

  2. 2
    Terrible But True says:

    Interesting to see who the BBC wheels on to ‘discuss’ this very topic from a position of ‘up the workers’ empathy today.

    Like

    • 5
      Terrible But True says:

      Surprise….!

      @Kevin_Maguire: Morning. Discussing the politics of lower living standards incl cuts to value of benefits for people in & out of work 0740 @BBCBreakfast

      Fellow objective rapporteur Prescott later?

      Like

  3. 3
    Liarpoliticians says:

    Liam Byrne talking about welfare fairness. What was fair about “There’s no money left, good luck”!?

    Like

  4. 4
    Operation Crossbow says:

    BBC have been bleating about evil Tories all day.

    Like

    • 9
      I d on't nee d no doctor says:

      The BBC hand out license fee payers money to their incompetent staff. The BBC should be the last organisation to question anyone or anything. World class, yes at incompetence.

      Like

      • 21
        Can't use me old moniker says:

        You’d think they would be happy in their new billion pound headquarters, instead their just as misserable on air as ever, what is their problem?

        Like

        • 26
          I d on't nee d no doctor says:

          And their News 24 has to be the most boring news channel ever. Same old, same old.

          Like

          • David Cameron types always shits on North of England says:

            Beeb knows where their bread is buttered, and it ain’t sharp edged tory types.

            But I think the beeb needs seriously slimming, since it is basically a commie setup, and warps the market unfairly for “proper” capitalist media companies.

            Like

      • 28
        Pol Pot says:

        World class at blowing there own trumpet, but as they control 70% of the media output in this country like a many tentacled hydra we will all just have to pay up and bite the bullet.

        Like

    • 39
      Sandra in accounts says:

      Anyone else noticed that on BBC R4 – all programmes – whenever anyone tries to finish a sentence along the lines of “….dealing with the financial mess that Labour left us” – before they can finish the sentence they are always shouted down & interupted by the BBC Labour placemen & wimmin announcers / interviewers?

      It was particularly bad yesterday – pro Labour bias is gettingmore fever pitched.

      It seems like a joined up effort – unions, charities & the BBC all doing their bit in final heave to coercive, despotic socialism.

      Like

      • 49
        Living in 96.98 percent white Merseyside says:

        I noticed it last night when Gavin Esler was interviewing Grant Shapps.

        Like

      • 54
        restore the monasteries says:

        I also have noticed the deliberate interruptions,which the bbc has done ,at least,
        since ’97.For so called,intelligent,educated people,i find it weird.The other day,evan davies on R4,had a meltdown,whilst interveiwing our chancellor.If our
        society is more educated,that europe is the way foreward,that technology is a great help,that unfettered immigration is good,,why are we in such a financial mire???? PS Liam Byrne should not be allowed anywhere near British politics!!!!!!!

        Like

      • 62
        Pol Pot says:

        Got to the state of SHAMELESS!, no pretence any more about their bias, even BBC employees of long years standing have criticised the shambles, infiltrated by loony lefties that promote windmills and isn’t the EU wonderful. Cruise missile needed.

        Like

      • 68

        The reason for that Sandra, is LieBore got their own people in as CEO’s of the major “Charridies”, as they knew they would lose with Comrade “Bonkers” Brownski at the helm, so sleepers were deployed to help rubbish anything, ANYONE did, along with the “Bruvvers” at the Unions (I’ve always lived in this Council House!) until that colossus of the political world, RetardEd Militwat could shuffle dispiritedly onto the stage and declare the world economy saved….. again. In a nasal, whiney sniffle.

        Like

      • 69
        One click and it's gone! says:

        Yes, there was a 3 against 1 yesterday with so-called charities demanding they receive more free money to fund their extravagances.

        Like

  5. 6
    I d on't nee d no doctor says:

    The labour benefits wagon just keeps rolling along.

    Like

  6. 7
    Anonymous says:

    Capping benefits is probably the fair thing to do, although, I have a feeling it will be counterproductive in the long term. Illnesses we thought we’d eradicated like rickets may start to return. This will have an impact on the NHS.

    I also worried about an increase in prison inmates – it costs 41k to keep someone in prison. How many poor people will now turn to crime. Obviously this is a certainty, but the US with its lack of welfare is a pointer.

    Like

    • 13
      The Truth says:

      So far, the Evil Tory Cuts (c) Labour 2010 have caused a 10% drop in crime.

      Like

      • 91
        Anonymous says:

        This is the first cut in benefits, so I’m not sure how you can extrapolate the cut in crime – time will tell.

        Like

    • 63
      I Remember You Hoo says:

      Rickets could well return in some totally depressed socialist shithole ( the residents of said shitholes never join the dots ) but that will likely be because the dysfunctional parents who have been allowed and rewarded to breed dysfunctional families.

      They will spend benefits on beer, fags and drugs first and food and clothing etc last.

      When you reinforce social irresponsiblity with cash rewards, it’s rather self fulfilling that the parents will feel feeding their children is not their responsibility, but the states.

      Like

      • 76
        Bugalugs says:

        I flew home from a regional meeting in Singapore over the weekend and seated across the aisle from me was your typical Sarfend couple Sharon and Darren (or maybe it was Kevin and Tracey) with two dysfunctional kids aged about 1 and 3 – both of whom SCREAMED all night long throughout the 12 hour flight, disturbing travellers trying in vain to get a bit of shut-eye. The airline staff have been put under orders not to intervene in such instances. This pair made no effort at all to control these pests. WTF do these people get the money to travel the world? Clearly victims of Liebore ejukashun policies too.

        Like

      • 94
        Anonymous says:

        I have some sympathy for your argument here, I really do. But I’m also pragmatic.

        I’d rather these people fed their kids properly, but they won’t, and that will cost the NHS.

        I’m all for the welfare card that IDS has proposed for such families. But that isn’t the same as cutting benefits.

        Like

  7. 8
    Alan says:

    No- the unpopular, or non-populist, side of the argument is not necessarily the wrong one.

    If you increase welfare by less than inflation, you inevitably increase rates of poverty and deprivation.

    Like

    • 11
      I d on't nee d no doctor says:

      Is your argument made from behind closed curtains?

      Like

    • 31
      retardEd Miliband's Parasite Party (for shirkers, nbot workers) says:

      Oh Comrade Parasite, how right you are! Benefits must be increased! Our Dear Leader will increase benefits! This can be easily paid for – just confiscate more of workers’ wages and pay it to you, the glorious hard-lazing parasites! Workers’ wages belong in your pocket, not in theirs!

      Onwards, Parasites, Onwards!

      Like

  8. 10
    Pol Pot says:

    Surely its blindingly obvious that the threshold before paying tax on earnings should be raised to £10,000 or £12,000, get rid of Gordons Tax credits, cost an amazing amount of money and open to fraud, not to mention an army of civil servants required to administrate it, But I guess that solution is just too simple for the simpletons.

    Like

    • 57
      Anonymous says:

      The income tax allowance should be set at the minimum hourly wage x 40.

      How the f*ck can any politician state that this is the minimum someone should paid for their labour and then take tax and national insurance out the minimum payable??

      Like

    • 60
      Operation Crossbow says:

      IDS said this on Radio 5 this morning (in between Nicky Campbell sneering at him)

      You need to raise the tax threshold to say 12 or 14k. Raise the minimum wage as well but then reduce taxes on companies to compensate.

      Basically let people keep more of what they earn.

      IDS was spot on when he said that at the moment people thanks to Gordon Brown end up having to claim back money that they have already had taken off them in taxes. The cost of just the admin to do this alone is massive.

      It’s also true though that the single biggest lump of welfare hasn’t been touched, which is pensions. They really do need to get that lot back in order, they need to make it an incentive once again to save for a pension.

      Like

      • 66
        Alexsandr says:

        they should start my rolling the winter fuel allowance into the basic pension, thereby removing the admin for the WFA and making it taxable.

        Like

      • 75
        Pol Pot says:

        Not surprising that people are now cynical about providing for themselves with a pension after Brown raided £6 billion from them ( = £100, billion ongoing accrued). Talk about a walking disaster.

        Like

      • 78
        Casual Observer says:

        Agreed.

        This puts incentive back into work, without forcing wage inflation.

        Raising the threshold at this end may help boost net government income as well.

        Like

  9. 15
    I d on't nee d no doctor says:

    Why is it taking so long for the Andrew Mitchell issue to be resolved. It didn’t take long for the police/police federation/media and labour to get Mitchell sacked.

    Like

  10. 16
    I d on't nee d no doctor says:

    Chilcot is dead, long live Chilcot.

    Like

  11. 17
    I d on't nee d no doctor says:

    Has Guido backed down on his Margaret Dodge crusade?

    Like

  12. 18
    Chris Partten says:

    Bad day for BBC all round as had to admit ‘no global warming over last two decades’ at the tail end of news broadcasts – bugger. And we broke the BBC charter for this!

    Like

    • 67
      Extreme weather patterns says:

      Errm, it’s a bit warmer than it has traditionally been, right now in Australia.
      And we’ve just had the wettest year ever.

      Like

      • 81
        Casual Observer says:

        It is Summer in Australia, which is 98% desert.

        The jet stream does wander in the UK’s part of the world which tends to affect rainfall.

        Sun has continued to cool.

        If you look to melting ice caps in Greenland next, there has been a lot of volcanic activity there recently which is very much to blame.

        Global Warming was a cheap sham based on politicized pseudo science.

        Those who wish to believe can continue, their reduced consumption if honest will be to others benefit.

        Like

      • 83
        Bugalugs says:

        Hot and wet – that’s how we Aussies like ‘em!

        Like

      • 95
        Spokesperson for the Department of Environment and Climate Bollocks says:

        Between 950 AD and 1050 AD temperatures in Australia, were around on average, 2 Degrees Celsius higher, than today.

        Thus, your point, has failed miserably.

        Like

    • 85
      Spokesperson for the Department of Environment and Climate Bollocks says:

      Look, there has been loads of global warming over the last twenty years, it’s just that CO2 has brilliantly discovered how to mask the warming with cooling. Our super computers boffins are working on it and expect a switch to ‘wild weather’ caused by CO2, to replace climate change imminently.

      Like

    • 101
      Cretacious dinosaur says:

      Have the BBC shitehouses got any fucking idea how hot it was during my era?

      Like

  13. 19
    ed martin says:

    its the labour opposition’s duty to be in the wrong

    its what they are paid for – they’ve had plenty of practice

    Like

  14. 20
    Steve Miliband says:

    Never understood why you tax people and then give it back in the form of credits.

    Like

  15. 27
    Jimmy says:

    Face it, the argument is lost. Labour win in 2015 no matter what anyway.

    Happy days ahead.

    Like

    • 33
      Gordon McMuffin says:

      Yeah, I’m looking forward to maxing out on my credit card again, and going into personal wankrupty.

      Like

    • 38
      we'll have the blues if the reds get in again says:

      Not according to your trusted pollster Peter Kellner, Jimmy.

      Like

      • 42
        Sarah says:

        Mr Gruppen Fuhrer-Ashton?

        Like

        • 80

          Jimmy, you’ve been spending far too much time “tending the still”, me old mucker. The Liebore Party couldn’t win an election to be called the Liebore Party in 2015, let alone to be the party of government – trust me on this. It will be surprisingly bad and humiliating for the twonks at Milwank Tower.

          Happy days indeed – for the UK.

          Like

    • 41
      Can't use me old moniker says:

      Ah, what would Guido be without our regular buffoon to cheer us up on a cold drab morning with his naughty jokes.

      Like

    • 43
      retardEd Miliband's Parasite Party (for shirkers, not workers) says:

      Yes, Comrade Jimmy! A glorious new era of Parasitic sponging awaits for all shirkers, spongers and skivers!

      Workers’ wages belong in the pockets of Parasites! Our Dear Leader will confiscate the selfish workers’ wages and pay them to all Parasites! A healthy top-up from the branches of the Magic Money Tree will be gifted to you. too!

      Rejoice, Comrade Jimmy, Rejoice!

      Like

    • 45
      Pol Pot says:

      Thanks Jimmy, Just rang my GP up a for an appointment in expectation, do they still prescribe Mogadon?.

      Like

  16. 34
    Raving Loon says:

    I don’t get child benefit. Why should I pay you to raise your little sprogs?

    Like

    • 47
      Alasdair Campbell Murderer says:

      +1

      I want Elephant Benefit. It’s my human right to own an elephant. I can’t afford one, but I’m determined to have one, which is why I should get elephant benefit. To pay for my elephant. It’s only fair.

      Like

    • 51
      Anonymous says:

      Your parents would have received child benefit though!

      Like

  17. 40
    Steve Miliband says:

    Time for a Tattoo Tax.
    Premiershit footballers facing a huge tax rise. Much better for them to waste their money and time in the pub, at the bookies, or down at the dealer. They do realise they have defiled their bodies for life don’t they?

    Like

  18. 46
    WILLIAM , SEB'S HOE says:

    There are millions of people in this country who work the minimum number of hours a week (about 15 hours) only so they can have the rest made up from benefits , supermarkets being the main culprits They can say shit like “we created 6000 new jobs) when in actual fact they have created 2000 jobs being done by 6000 people, all doing 15 hours a week . I don’t know what benefits these employers gain from doing this , but the practice should be stopped . If companies were made to condense these jobs into” real full time jobs” The Unemployment figures would probably be nearer 6 or 7 million

    Lets face it , This counrty if Fucked with a capitol “F”

    Like

    • 70
      Please don't put a space before a punctuation mark says:

      Did you fail Punctuation 101?

      Like

      • 88
        David Cameron types always shits on North of England says:

        Aren’t you back in school yet teacher? However it is put, I understood exactly easily what he was saying.

        So no gold star for him?

        Like

  19. 53
    Cameron is a Cunt says:

    the tory party and its vile ideology is fucked

    Like

    • 87
      David Cameron types always shits on North of England says:

      It’s Georgian, never mind Victorian.

      Like

    • 90
      Anonymous says:

      Which idealogy exactly ?

      That people should work for a living ?
      That people shouldn’t expect or get something for nothing ?
      That the country should live within its means ?

      Like

  20. 86
    David Cameron types always shits on North of England says:

    Capitalism is warped at the moment – people towards the top of the pyramid get paid too much, cost of living hence goes up, so those at the bottom need helping out.

    Greed at the top is the cause. One of the sins I believe. But of course, they can give to one of their charities if they start feeling bad about it, but that feeling soon passes, I’ve noticed.

    Like

  21. 89
    Sick of Scroungers says:

    Cut all benefits now….

    Like

  22. 92
    Greychatter says:

    An incorrect Tax return?
    This example shows the importance of accuracy in your tax return.

    The HMRC has returned the Tax Return to a man in Evesham after he apparently answered one of the questions incorrectly.

    In response to the question Do you have anyone dependant on you?, the man wrote
    “2.1 million illegal immigrants,
    1.1 million crackheads,
    4.4 million unemployable Jeremy Kyle scroungers,
    900,000 criminals in over 85 prisons
    plus 650 idiots in Parliament and the whole of the European Commission”.

    The HMRC stated that the response he gave was unacceptable.

    The man’s response back to HMRC was “who did I miss out?”.

    Like

  23. 103
    Anonymous says:

    This is what Tory Councils do. Vote went through last night

    http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2013/01/08/walsall-council-pay-rise-approved-despite-protest/

    Only a doubling in allowance for the deputy leader and 60% increases for cabinet members. Shame the opposition sat on their hands.

    Like

    • 106
      Ripped off Taxpayer says:

      The same thing happened in Portsmouth a couple of years ago, a 39% pay rise for all councillors. They had an ‘independent panel’ as well – all the local Worthies who depend on the council for contracts, planning permissions etc, fixed up for them by grateful council officers. The whole business is public sector corruption. There is a merry go round in Local Government where councillors pay rises are set up by grateful council officers who have already been granted massive pay rises by the councillors. Local Government needs to be reformed and quickly.

      Like

  24. 104
    Labour=Waste says:

    Many people have not had a pay rise for years.

    Now Labour vote to give more and more money to benefit claimants. They can’t help themselves when it comes to splurging money.

    Like

  25. 108

    The Tory poster shows that they are trying to stir up prejudice among those comfortably in work against those who need help. This is as cynical and offensive as it gets. Labour are defending the poorest in Society. The Nasty Party doesn’t care.

    Like


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Lord Glasman tells it like it is:

“The first thing is to acknowledge that Labour has been captured by a kind of aggressive public sector morality which is concerned with the individual and the collective but doesn’t understand relationships.”



Owen Jones says:

We also need Zil lanes.


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