July 19th, 2012

Dave In Europe

In a move that is sure to firm up the Prime Minister’s increasingly grim position in the eyes of his backbenchers and party, Dave has ruled out ever campaigning for the UK to leave the EU. Discussing an in/out referendum with the Telegraph he claims:

“I think it would be bad for Britain. When I look at what is in our national interest, we are not some country that looks in on ourself or retreats from the world. Britain’s interest – trading a vast share of our GDP – is to be in those markets. Not just buying, selling, investing, receiving investment but also helping to write the rules. If we were outside, we wouldn’t be able to do that.

It comes back to this, who are going to be the winning nations for the 21st century? If your vision of Britain was that we should just withdraw and become a sort of greater Switzerland, I think that would be a complete denial of our national interests.”

He has to make the right noises for now, but there was no reason to be quite so dismissive. Unless of course he was talking from the heart for once. What happens if his treasured renegotiation plan is rejected by other countries?


  1. 1
    Ian Stewart says:

    So what!

    I have just had a 25k pay rise!


  2. 2
    Charles Flaccidwidger says:

    Not really a surprise though, is it?

  3. 3
    But! says:

    Where Ed Miliband leads, David Cameron follows.

  4. 4
    Aunty Matter says:

    Because when her gets booted out in 2015 him and Clegg will be off to the EU as Commissioners earning millions a year.

  5. 5
    This is why Guido! says:

    One in seven MPs have never had a proper job, according to research.

    And in addition to those who have absolutely no experience of working in the real world, many more have served only brief stints as lobbyists or public relations advisers before entering politics full-time.

    The study by the House of Commons Library reveals a dramatic rise in the number of so-called professional politicians, whose numbers have increased almost four-fold over the past 30 years.

    Ninety MPs have never held a job outside politics, against 20 in 1982.

    The trend is led by Labour, which has twice as many MPs who have never worked outside politics as either the Conservatives or Liberal Democrats.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175695/One-seven-MPs-real-job.html#ixzz2130d0Ije

  6. 6
    Liarpoliticians says:

    What would be in the UK’s national interest is to get rid of David Cameron and get a CONSERVATIVE as PM, not a lefty like Cameron.

  7. 7
    Gordon Brown says:

    I can confirm that I will be attending the opening ceremony of the Cowdenbeath scout hut

  8. 8

    What happens if his treasured renegotiation plan is rejected by other countries?

    Easy. We leave.

    *Never ever ever make a threat without being prepared to carry it out.*

  9. 9
    Call me Dave says:

    What I actually said was …

    “I think it would be bad for me. When I look at what is in my interest, I am not some lick spittle that looks in on ourself or retreats from the world. My interest – trading a vast share of your GDP – is to be one of the chosen ones. Not just giving, giving, giving, giving but also helping to feather my beds. If I was outside, I wouldn’t be able to do that.

    It comes back to this, who are going to be the elite for the 21st century? If your vision of Britain was that we should just withdraw and become a sort of greater Switzerland, I think that would be a complete denial of my interests.”

  10. 10
    Forkbender says:

    There is no money in the kitty so rule that out

  11. 11
    Girl with the Golden Bogie says:

    Cameron – you are stuffed “For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.”

  12. 12
    Bill Cash says:

    I am biding my time before making a leadership challenge, and have no further comment to make.

    Good Morning

  13. 13
    Well it's a thought says:

    Hadn’t realised we had any real Conservatives left thought they had all found a new religion just as Libor has , expenses and back handers religion.

  14. 14
    English Liberation Front says:

    This idea of “helping to write the rules” from within. These are not just trading rules but ideological social engineering rules gradually interfering more and more in peoples private lives. And what evidence is there that the rules blighting British business and industry have ever been written with British help? The process is completely hidden and arcane within a bureaucratic machinery of such complexity that no-one can understand how it really works. The rules are churned out from Brussels like projectile vomiting with no form of proper democratic scrutiny, no consultation, no explanation of why they are required, no cost benefit analysis.

    Do the people of Britain really want the status of a US state? “Helping” to write Federal rules in the hope that some morsels of advantage drop from the top table?

    This is an unbelievably cowardly and craven statement, unsupported by any real evidence, couched in the usual tenuous Europhile platitudes we are expected to take on trust, coming from a man who has shown himself totally unfit to govern as a conservative. What about the over-mighty state you promised to rein in, Cameron, to “sweep it all away”? You are a liar and a charlatan.

    “Unveiling the proposed legislation on Monday, Mr Cameron said it was about “ending the old big-government, top-down way of running public services, releasing the grip of state control and putting power in people’s hands. It is not about ideology. It is about the best way of getting things done. The old dogma that said Whitehall knows best – it’s gone,” he said. “There will be more freedom, more choice and more local control.”

    But not about European federal government.

  15. 15
    SP4BS says:

    Coming out of the EU whilst keeping good relations with the other countries is difficult (if not impossible with Hollande). They would only have one chance to get it done right. If one cocked it up, it might be cocked up for decades, and your politicial obituary would start (and end) with “arsed it all up something rotten”. Its all a bit fraught, enough to make you fall over and squeak like iggle piggle.

  16. 16
    Nick Buckles (G4S) says:

    I am ready and waiting to become the next Leader of the Tory Party.

  17. 17
    Forkbender says:

    I cannot work out the picture as what Dave is doing, is he scratching is head, is he motioning someone someone forward, he has the worried look so is he checking his wig has slipped

  18. 18
    SP4BS says:

    I guess its not trade rules, but city rules.

  19. 19
    Chris The Leatherman says:

    What on earth is wrong with a greater Switzerland ? Switzerland has one of the highest standards of living in Europe. That statement he has given to the Telegraph would, presumably, also rule out a referendum on Europe, a piece of ammunition that he could have used to keep Clegg in line,keep faith with his right wing, keep European Union officials concerned, keep European mnaufacturers concerned they were not going to lose on of their best markets and maybe restore some faith in the Commonwealth etc. etc.

  20. 20
    Forkbender says:

    Oh dear!

  21. 21
    Ah! Monika says:

    Define ” National interest “

  22. 22
    Archer Karcher says:

    Making millions as an unelected and unremovable EU commissar is easy, ask Peter Mandelson.

  23. 23
    misterned says:

    “I think it would be bad for Britain,” he says. “When I look at what is in our
    national interest, we are not some country that looks in on ourself or
    retreats from the world. Britain’s interest – trading a vast share of our
    GDP – is to be in those markets. Not just buying, selling, investing,
    receiving investment but also helping to write the rules. If we were
    outside, we wouldn’t be able to do that.”

    Freeing ourselves from the EU is NOT an inward or retreating position. It is not isolationism, but a more direct interaction with overseas markets without the arms length one we currently have via the EU. It is an expansionary position as it frees us to trade more competitively with our primary markets, which are the growing economies outside the EU.

    He is right to claim we will have no say in writing the rules in the EU if we are outside it, But that raises two counter points. 1. China, Brazil, India, Russia etc… are outside the EU and it does not hurt them that they do not write the EU rules either… and 2. We are in the EU and we are ignored over writing the rules, so we pay billions per year to be in a club which ignores us and within which we have almost no influence over whatsoever, and when the full Lisbon protocols are implemented in 2014, our veto in so many other areas disappears so we will no longer have a say anyway.

    We will be paying billions per year to stay tied ever tighter to a dying, broke, overly bureaucratic, profoundly anti-democratic institution, for no reward whatsoever.

    Also by declaring that he would not ever even campaign to withdraw from the EU, Cameron fails negotiation 101. Always project the impression that you are willing to walk away from a deal! What on earth motivation is there for the other EU states to negotiate with us, if we have no threat anymore?

    What an absolute idiot he is.

  24. 24
    David Liddington says:

    I stand firmly behind David Cameron on this issue.

  25. 25
    bill cash says:

    actually, like all the rest of the ‘eurosceptics’, I will remain in the party, pretend to make waves, but in reality, I will not have the bollocks to take the ultimate stand in defence of the UK and leave this dishonourable party. My perks are much too important for that

  26. 26
    Nullbymouth says:

    Open letter to Mr Cameron

    Please do the country a favour and step down. I am sure that you are a very nice fellow, and you have tried to make your tenure a success but alas you have failed. The sooner you realise this and let someone else take the reigns the better for the country. It is not all your fault we know the Liberals are holding the Conservative party back, but so are you. Your ideals seem more in tune with the Liberals than the values that I for one thought the Conservative party stood for.
    I don’t know why but the centre of politics appears to be like a black hole slowly but surely pulling all political parties into its gravitational pull, and its time someone took charge of the Tory ship and changed its direction away from the center.

    Also if and when you do go, please take Osborne with you.

    Thank you for reading.

  27. 27
    Ah! Monika says:

    Precisely. As I said above he must define what he means by our National Interest.

  28. 28
    Archer Karcher says:

    Anyone who regards being a politician as a career, is beyond suspect, it is proof positive they are biddable.

  29. 29

    Sorry you’re dropped.
    It seems ‘Lofty’ from the old Eastenders can manage to attend after all.

    But we still have you down as first reserve for the swimming gala prize giving, OK?

  30. 30
    Dave says:

    I take note of your comments and will remove myself to another less onerous Ministry
    in the re-shuffle.

  31. 31
    Loyalist says:

    Bit rich for a committed internationalist like Guido (Irish citizen working for the Russian government) to complain about outsiders influencing our English way of life.

  32. 32
    misterned says:

    This is where the idiot Cameron fails at negotiation 101. If we remove any possible sanction against the EU before negotiation, where is there motivation to give us what we are negotiation for?

    Hang, on…. What ARE we negotiating for? What, specifically is Dave actually trying to negotiate? As far as I know, he is not even doing that. So far, all he has done in the EU is give Brussels everything that they want, up to and including our enthusiastic support for a Fiscal Union (of which we will not be part, but WILL be subject the their decisions and block votes, reducing our influence in the EU to precisely ZERO!)

    The man is an idiot and a traitor. He is equally as pro EU as Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband.

    We need a conservative leading the conservative party and until we get one, I am voting UKIP!

  33. 33
    Gonk says:

    Opening charity shops and jumble sales has seen his workload increase enormously. C’mon, be fair

  34. 34

    I would refer the honourable gentleman to 9:17 am below.

  35. 35
    SP4BS says:

    I fear the 2nd problem is one inherent in the mental disfunction known as “wanting to be prime minister”.

    Like napoleon, you can’t just stop at being boss of one country.

    Being the boss of just one pleasant but boring country is no bloody fun.

  36. 36
    Archer Karcher says:

    The problem with your solution is rather profound.

    Cameron and Hague have both stated on the record, that there are no circumstances under which they would ever leave, or be in favour of ever leaving, the EU.

  37. 37
    Ernestine Tentions says:

    So, democracy…

    is a method of social organisation which results in power being held by a man who was voted for by a small minority of the population. In order to hold on to that power, that man compromises his manifested ‘principles’ in order to gain the support of much weaker men whose principles are the ones that he really shares.

    So, the ‘elected’ Prime Minister lies about what he believes in so that he can get power. Only the innocent would be suprised at this.

    Having gained power, the ‘leader’ assumes the right to impose rule on the people that they do not want.

    In summary, democracy is a system in which a liar is voted for by a minority and then that liar imposes rule that is unpopular with a great majority.

    I do not call this democracy. I call it tyranny.

  38. 38
    Forkbender says:

    unfortunately foreign EU countries now control a lot of the UKs infrastructure, water, electricity, a fair amount of postal services, some of the Banks in London, some large insurance companies, the list goes on, once out of the EU strange things might happen, the big hitters might pull out of London, oh dear!

  39. 39
    SP4BS says:

    “our primary markets, which are the growing economies outside the EU”

    How do you define “primary”. It seems dan hannan and guido put the figure of actual items being sold (excluding city trading?) as approx 50% to EU countries.

  40. 40
    MAD FRANKIE HADDOCK son of COD says:

    Can someone let the Taliban know he is mincing around Kabul today ?

  41. 41

    We posted on each others comments at almost exactly the same moment.

    I understand your position and it is not a million miles from mine. My suspicion is that, even if UKIP were to have electoral success (and I hope they do), they would ultimately go native. Not Farage, whom I greatly admire, but some of the others.

    The whole set up is so corrosive.

  42. 42
    Professor says:

    I can see us being lumbered with UKIP, with voters seeing it as the only way out of the EEC. As for this valued market rubbish, a look at the latest trading figures shows it is no longer the UKs most valued outlet.

  43. 43
    Forkbender says:

    Yes that would be a good idea, then and then the far right wing of the Conseravative party can come into power and call an election, you would like that, eh?

  44. 44
    Dave says:

    Err, I have been known to say the opposite to what I mean.

  45. 45
    SP4BS says:

    As above. 50%. Not sure if that includes financial services.

  46. 46
    Steve Miliband says:

    Coalitions do not work.

    Everything ends in compromise after horsetrading principles.

    The MP’s do not know where they stands as the very small powerbase negotiate on everything and end up with the worst of all worlds and the MP’s have to sell it only to find the small powerbase realise it’s shite and then back track.

  47. 47

    I think Dave is a very good,consensual, kindly and well intentioned leader.

    He would make a good leader of the Liberal Democrats.

  48. 48
    Forkbender says:

    They cannot afford to buy UK goods now that the Euro has fallen in value, simple as that.

  49. 49
    MAD FRANKIE HADDOCK son of COD says:

    The results of the great boost to our economy caused by the Queens Jubilee have just been announced “Absolute Zilch”
    total retail sales figures for June up by a massive 0.3%
    probably more than the Olimpdicks will provide

  50. 50
    Maggie says:

    Remember Dave, the knives were not left in my back.

  51. 51

    Cameron I can understand – as he is a flyweight.

    Hague has written about Pitt the Younger and read Churchill. He used the be an older head on younger shoulders. Now he seems to have gone native.

    But the logic of my statement is inescapable, its truth is ineluctable.

  52. 52

    I’ve just resigned from the Conservative Party, making it clear that it’s Dave or me. Now if a few thousand more disgruntled tories do the same, we can make a difference.

  53. 53
    Cammoron is a twat says:

    “Mervyn [King] was my colleague at LSE and he’s a deeply nice man. He’s one of the world’s top two or three academic economists. And he has no idea what he’s doing.”

    David Starkey

    Never a truer word written

  54. 54
    smoggie says:

    Foreign companies not countries control some UK companies and vice versa. Not sure why leaving the EU would change any of that.

    There are some non-EU companies, most notably the Japanese such as Toyota, who have invested in the UK precisely to get into EU markets. If UK leaves the EU then they would need to relocate.

  55. 55
    Nullbymouth says:

    Why do they have to call an election? They can continue as a minority government. I also do think that a more right wing government would be better (not far right as you say), right now its more left wing than labour especially with the Liberals causing holy hell around the edges.

  56. 56
    Archer Karcher says:


    If the Tory so called EU sceptics had a spine or any real conviction, they would have broken away years ago, when it became obvious that the party leaderships intentions, were profoundly EU phile.

  57. 57
    Raving Loon says:

    If only we could be a greater Switzerland! Staying neutral in the world’s conflicts that have nothing to do with us, trading with the world and minding our own business. Nice chocolate too!

  58. 58
    Loungelizard says:

    Thought you were off on a fact finding tour of the Caribbean?

  59. 59
    Forkbender says:

    Steve I agree, the Libdems should have held their ground and remained true to themselves, they could have said to Dave and Broon, if we broadly agree with you we will vote with you, if not, we will vote against you, but the thought of being in power after so long turned their heads, and lost them a great deal of support.

  60. 60

    You have forgotten Frankie!

    They used to talk about immigration. Now they talk about net immigration.

    If the net figures have gone up by one, that means two as I have left.

    Read that approach into every statistic you see and you might get close to 25% of the truth, if you are lucky because they are dissembling bastards.

  61. 61
    *snork* says:

  62. 62

    Hence part of the reason we are in the state we are in. Politicians need to have a broad range of experience, for their decisions affect so many diverse groups in society. Career politicians, or near career politicians simply dont have that, for their whole experience is tied up in village life. Hence decisions get made that may well serve their interests and what they believe to be the national interest, but without any real grounding in the real world, beyond marriage and kids etc.

    What we really need are MPs who have a broad range of social experiences who have a level of understanding of what life is really like at the pointy end. And also who are sufficiently evolved as people to be above bickering and childish antics.

    Stewart now goes off to watch debates in the house and shakes his head.

    Cameron is right in one thingthough – if we leave the EU, England (not Scotland for they will stay in post Independence) will find itself marginalised in the wider world, for as power continues to shity towards Asia from the West, Europe could become a serious player (if it got its house in better order) and if England was on its lonesomes we could become a third rate player in the wider world. Fun to the the Scots develop their global influence at the expense of England.

    There is a bigger picture folks, and where we once ruled the waves we now largely follow and play keep up while being a pain in the arse. In our rapidly changing world we could very soon become a has been.

    Did I really agree with Cameron? Thats twice now (the other being that our nation needs reinvigouration, though there I do think he has blundered big time in his execution)

  63. 63

    Apologies for my dyslexic typing shity=shifts

  64. 64

    Well, it certainly would not be having a Flaccidwidger ;-)

    No offence, Charles…

  65. 65

    Staying in the EU while keeping good relations with other countries will be impossible with Hollande.

  66. 66
    Nick says:

    Trade would not be affected by withdrawal. The EEA and the WTO are the relevant things. The EU is a political vanity project going down the pan.

  67. 67
    Gordon Brown says:

    The UN have asked me to fly to Burkina Faso to teach elementary geography to 12 year olds. I am not a fan of Portugal so I may well stay at home and see if the gala want me.

  68. 68
    Nullbymouth says:

    There is that fucking word again – academic

    The single biggest root cause of where we are today. Listen up gravy trainers



  69. 69

    Nice in most parts but Geneva is becoming rather like Birmingham, except with the latter’s charm stripped away.

  70. 70
    Anonymous says:

    The only conclusion I draw from that Archer is that if either of them is leading the Conservative party at the next GE it will ensure another LieBour goverment.
    The general public know that manifesto contents are downright lies to persuade the gullible to vote for the things they want to hear;the political parties concerned have no intention of implementing them & their subsequent response is “they were merely aspirations & not cast iron guarantees”.
    All they desire is power for the opportunity it provides for personal financial enrichment.No wonder the turnout at elections is declining.

  71. 71
    Forkbender says:

    A lot of folks that are coming want to see the Olympic games they are not over bothered about shopping, so I concur with you there Frankie. The ordinary residents of London will be restricted where they can go, so they are not going to spend, if they can they can get out of London for the duration but then again their house would be broken into by the crims

  72. 72
    Raving Loon says:

    I don’t want to beg my master that I my change the way bread crumbs are thrown on me.

  73. 73

    What, then, would you call a tyranny?

  74. 74
    Norman Stanley Fletcher says:

    The EEC? Where have you been for the last 20-odd years? It ceased to be purely a trading block a long time ago.

  75. 75

    Well said, Nullbymouth.

    The temptation of many would be to rid ourselves of academia but that would be wrong as well.

  76. 76
    taC eht abbaJ says:

    Crash test dummy Farage and the kippered pygmies went native in the EUSSR expenses trough a long time ago…

  77. 77
    Steve Miliband says:

    We have the worst of all worlds. Confidence and supply would have been manageable – no major controversial legislation would have passed, just necessary laws with a few defeats. Just ticked over for 5 years unwinding Gordon’s spending sprees, start again 2015

  78. 78
    suissebob says:

    What on earth is wrong with a greater Switzerland ?

    Precisely, the UK should be so lucky.

    Also it’s been scorchio for most of the summer!

  79. 79

    I’ve heard he is a bit of a Necker when he thinks others aren’t looking…

  80. 80
    MAD FRANKIE HADDOCK son of COD says:

    Cameron has got to go and the useless twat Gideon
    The whole world is laughing at the prick
    If you had just put 20% of our armed forces on to the dole you wouldn’t show your face , but this prick goes looking for a photo opp with the hope they will shake his hand
    I assume all live ammunition was withdrawn again for his visit ?

  81. 81
    taC eht abbaJ says:

    Birmingham + charm = ultimate oxymoron

  82. 82
    SP4BS says:

    There are some foreign companies that are actually controlled by a state. EDF for one. But to be honest the worst they can do is act like a dodgy corporation trying to rip off consumers for as much as they possibly can. (joke)

  83. 83
    Norman Stanley Fletcher says:

    You could probably get by without the academia (how many academics have any knowledge of the world beyond their own bubble?), but without the experience and savvy? Forget it.

  84. 84
    Forkbender says:

    Maybe naivety and common sense be at the bottom of these problems, such as “they wouldn’t do that sort of thing, good chaps don’t do that sort of thing”

  85. 85

    If they ran things well and efficiently, I might put up with some troughing. The odd few thousand here and there is a gnat’s shit compared with £375bn of QE necessary to fudge the figures and convince no one.

  86. 86
    Archer Karcher says:

    Good relations with other countries?

    What utter tosh, on what evidence do you base that assertion?

    We have perfectly good relations with countries around the world and they have nothing to do with our membership of the corrupt club ( current membership fee £2.5 million per HOUR, membership benefits – zero ).

    If by that you mean good trading relations, I draw your attention to the fact that they sell far more into the UK than we sell to them.

    Any hint of trade disruption would hurt their own people far more than ours and even people as ridiculous as Hollande, are not going to shoot themselves and push up thier unemployment levels with trade embargoes any time soon.

  87. 87
    UKIP.i.am says:

    “It comes back to this, who are going to be the winning nations for the 21st century?”

    What a stupid pillock.

    The winning nations of the 21st century are all going to be outside Europe. Certainly all outside the introverted, highly regulated EU. Asia is going to dominate this century. You don’t need a crystal ball to work that out.

    So we need to make bilateral trade agreements with them that are not jeopardised by EU red tape and we don’t need EU work restrictions that make us uncompetitive, costing us jobs and growth. The Liblabcon parties are destroying this country. They are all the same.

  88. 88
    The Colonel says:

    I will die of boredom by 2020 so big deal!

  89. 89
    SP4BS says:

    you know, a lot of Hollande’s rhetoric is inherently anti-EU. He, and his electorate, don’t seem to notice that, but I have heard commentators from countries like Germany and the Netherlands bring it up.

  90. 90
    The Patsy Faced pLONKER IN nO 10 says:

    I say chaps!!! I get the feeling I’m terribly popular with the Common People and the next election is going to be a Land-Slide! What! Watt? Wattage?

  91. 91

    Irony, dear boy! Irony.

    Have you seen Geneva recently, BTW?

  92. 92
    TRT says:

    That’s the final straw , I will be voting UKIP from now on

  93. 93
    MAD FRANKIE HADDOCK son of COD says:

    If you take into account all the businesses that have been booted out of their premisses or forced to relocate , the taxi’s and limo’s that can’t go anywhere near , all the restrictions on shops on what they can and can’t sell and the general disruption to the already over congested road and rail networks around London
    i can’t see them making a bean out of the whole farce
    Oh apart from Lord Seb and his £3 million bonus

  94. 94
    The Patsy Faced pLONKER IN nO 10 says:

    dash me! I said that wrong …. !!! the next election is going to be ANOTHER Land-Slide!

  95. 95
    concrete pump says:

    Eddie Izzard…?

  96. 96
    Forkbender says:

    Well they haven’t done very well in the past 5 years have they

  97. 97

    Agree Mr UKIP.u.r.

    But if you expect UKIP government to be a panacea, you might be in for a disappointment.

  98. 98
    UKIP.i.am says:

    You have it all wrong. It is the EU which has restricted the English way of life. We were far less restricted when we dealt with Commonwealth countries and others without being told what we could sell, who we could sell it to and how we could sell it by some unelected non*ces in Brussels.

  99. 99
    The Patsy Faced pLONKER IN nO 10 says:


  100. 100
    SP4BS says:

    Are you saying there is no such thing as “good relations with other countries”?
    Or that negotiations between different countries do not involve some deals that we don’t get told about? I’m damn sure that the scrappage scheme was something to do with hidden schemes and back scratching.

    For more evidence, I’d suggest looking into why New Zealanders were pissed off with the french in the 80s and 90s.

  101. 101
    Loungelizard says:

    I’m beginning to believe the theory that our politicians have signed us up to an unpublished treaty with the EU. On that has irrevocably handed sovereignty to EU control.

  102. 102
    We have just shot our bolt. Thanks Clueless Dave says:

    When one is getting ready for any potential negotiation you generally have …

    1. An ideal situation that you want to achieve
    2. An idea of where you think you will be after compromises
    3. A walk away position

    The last thing anyone with EXPERIENCE would do would be to tell your fucking opposite number what these positions were.

  103. 103
    Archer Karcher says:


    Again, the same old chestnuts are dragged out to emphasise a false and dishonest argument. Which beggars the question, what is it about the EU project that induces it’s supporters to lie about it?

  104. 104
    Gonk says:

    I couldn’t give a baboon’s arse about Euro relations.
    As a formerly brilliant trading nation we can sell all over the World.

  105. 105
    JH says:

    Stewart, Europe will be too busy bickering and deciding on the right shape for a cucumber to be a bulwark against the East.

    The East is catching up – and may well overtake us – because they are capitalist countries in which work pays significantly more than welfare and government interference in voluntary trade is minimal.

    In short, they are everything Europe is not.

  106. 106
    Archer Karcher says:

    The far right?

    Define your slur. If you have the balls that is.

  107. 107
    Forkbender says:

    Liebore under B’liar at times seemed more right wing than Maggie did, could have been the large majority they had, and no one seemed to question some of their nuttier ideas, they just liked being in power, and some did very nicely out it

  108. 108
    50 shades of Ed Millibland and Gordon Brown says:


  109. 109
    No tool like an old tool says:

    You would be an improvement.

  110. 110
    SP4BS says:

    That is the “Oscar Pistorius argument”

  111. 111
    Forkbender says:

    I thought they were doing that now

  112. 112
    SP4BS says:

    I rekon for most people on this blog, 1+3 are the same thing.

    But I don’t think anyone else knows what (1) is.

  113. 113
    UKIP.i.am says:

    He means his personal interest. Such as future employment and pension prospects in Europe like the tw@ Kinnock.

  114. 114
    Nullbymouth says:

    I started typing a long reply, but I have removed it for clarity ….

    Mass immigration experiment = Right Wing ???

    Increase Public sector = Right Wing ???

    Increase Culture of Entitlement = Right Wing ???

    Increase Taxes and Bureaucracy = Right Wing ???

    Are we in the same hemisphere?

  115. 115
    JH says:

    Apparently Izzard is now involved with Crystal Palace.

    It will be hard for such a socialist dreamer to deal with the actual, measurable, comparable results of competition and how they reflect on his decision making ability.

    Never mind. If things go wrong he can just blame a director who left the club 22 years ago.

  116. 116
    UKIP.i.am says:

    EDF and the like can not get away with murder. OFGEM and OFWAT limit the pri*ce rises of energy and water bills. And if they fall short of decent performance (such as high water leakage rates) they will be fined. So does it really matter who owns such UK infrastructure/.

  117. 117
    Jane Birkin from Paris says:

    Lord fucking Snooty is now mouthing it off that we can all look forward to economic stagnation and austerity for the rest of this bleeding decade.

    Well I am very fucking sorry your Lordship but I do not like putting up with moonshine bullshit and utter crap.

    If you know you cannot deliver anything for three million plus unemployed then pass on the baton now.

    People should not put up with stagnation and ineptitude.

  118. 118
    Anonymous says:

    Took your time.

  119. 119
    grumblebucket says:

    I’d call him a Hunt, but they’re useful

  120. 120
    Maggies Pearl Necklace says:

    I think I might have to drop the nut on young David………………

  121. 121
    Sheikh Bashar Banka says:

    Last night I read in the Press that the White House was putting it about that LIBOR was too big a problem to be sorted out by the City.

    This morning I read in the Press that perhaps LIBOR may even be replaced.

    Geithner has even been caught trying to tell Mervyn King what to do. Geithner was of course in the room with Hank Paulson when Lehman blew up so he is someone who is seriously suspect.

    And what has the British Prime Minister done? I have not heard about him challenging Big Ears pointing out that this is a British problem and we will sort it and he should keep his nose out.

    The only person I have time for is that Julian Arseache character even though he is holed up in Ecuador. When he indicated that the Tory Party is a White House poodle he was spot on!

  122. 122
    Yvonne from the Colliers Arms Clydach says:

    It is enough to make you want to stop paying taxes.

    Why pay them when even they say they are going to screw you?

  123. 123
    Tony Eden from Eton says:

    My dear friends I think the very point is that whilst we still hold a membership card we are really positioned on the outside of the EU club.

    If the present PM has any plans for the UK in Europe then I think these plans are firmly embedded in his dreams and nowhere else.

  124. 124
    Gordon says:

    I have done a big job.

  125. 125
    UKIP.i.am says:

    Cameron and other idiots think we would suffer by being outside the EU but Europe has been steadily falling behind the rest of the world for the last 30 years. Europe has been outperformed economically not just compared against Asian countries but against African and American ones as well. The EU is not the solution. The EU with its socialist, anti-business agenda is the problem.

  126. 126

    JH they are where we were in the Industrial revolution. We have evolved past that. We should be leading and inspiring not turning the clock back. Life is not about making money, that is human invention, which is very useful. But Life is much more than this, as the west has largely learnt. Remember human rights are sparse in some parts of the world (OK they may have got a bit silly over here I give you).

    Europe has simply fallen into darkness, I did myself at one time, and just as I did, Europe has to find the courage to walk itself out. That takes people like Andreason and Farage.

    With the exception of the top echelons who fund things, unbridled capitalism does no one any good whatsoever. The trick, and it is a difficult balancing act, is giving incentives while caring. The human race is evolving out of puberty (which is why you have wikileaks, whistleblowers, demands for work life balance etc).

    Europes flaws are down simply to human nature. Sort out the negatives of human nature, and things will work out well.

    Sadly the estblishments dont like people hwo stand up to make things better, perhaps it is fear or insecurity or jealousy. But those people, like Andreason and Farage need to be listened to. And the will needs to be found to move together.

    Stewart the bloke who knocks heads togetehr.

  127. 127
    Backwoodsman says:

    ‘Personal interest’ , henceforth known as **the kinnokio defence**.

  128. 128
    Bluebottle says:

    I pay no taxes because I am a self employed puppet.

  129. 129
    Nelson's Eye says:

    We wouldn’t want the UK to be a “Greater Switzerland” – peaceful, rich , safe and not involved in foreign adventures that harm their own citizens and those of other countries . Our leaders not being able to strut the world’s stage and pronounce on matters of no concern to them !

    Oh No, that would never do, would it?

  130. 130
    Nelson's Eye says:

    Apologies to #57 for two minds with a single thought!

  131. 131
    English Liberation Front says:

    The “far-right” is the new socialist smear term for anything right of the new left of centre “centre” populated by Common Purpose stooges and fake conservatives.

    “Leading beyond authority” – pursuing thinly veiled communist ideals free of scrutiny, challenge or democratic accountability and creating a massive propaganda scam, reinforced by coercive legislation, to make people believe “it is the right thing to do”.

  132. 132
    Magelec says:

    I understand that a lot of freight just passes through Rotterdam Port in transit to countries outside the EU.

  133. 133
    JH says:

    If warm fuzzy platitudes could be eaten, we would all be obese.


  134. 134
    Loyalist says:

    Think you may have slightly missed the poi*nt there.

  135. 135
    Boris Johnson says:


    I’m going to make a major statement on Britain and the EU. Whom do you thing the Conservative Party will follow? Me or you and Nick Clegg?

    You are finished and you know it. Why don’t you let a conservative have a go at leading the Tpries?

  136. 136
    John Coles says:

    ……””but also helping to write the rules””. You simply do not understand, Dave, do you? We don’t want the fucking rules, let alone helping to write them.

  137. 137
  138. 138
    Tony Blair says:

    “Europe has simply fallen into darkness, I did myself at one time,”.
    Praise Be! And like me, you discovered The Lord!!!! And He bestowed you with loadsamoney! Jolly good isn’t it!

  139. 139

    At last! A cast iron guarantee from Dave we can all believe in!

  140. 140


    Without dreamers where would be be? All o ftehbig positive social changes have cme from dreamers. Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, David Cameron

    Tony Blair

    I discovered myself!!!

  141. 141
    Jimbo says:

    It is time for this fool Cameron to go, where are the proper Conservatives ? why do we have to put up with this idiot.
    Thw greater majority of people in this country want a referendum on Europe and to deny them this is not democratic.
    The Conservative Party will suffer greatly in the next election, Ukip will take thier place and the Conservative Party will disappear.

  142. 142
    HenryV says:

    Not a country that is inward looking? We swapped trading and dealing with over a third of the globe to deal with our next door neighbours who have done nothing but stab us in the back. Some of us want to try and get back to that pre-EU position, back to being truly global.

  143. 143
    Not really thought about it, have you? says:

    @UKIP 10:29

    That’s why everybody’s leccy bill is so affordable and there are never any hosepipe bans, eh?

    Flogging infrastructure, or simply allowing it to fall to pieces, whilst constantly providing an ever decreasing standard of service and an ever increasing invoice for that shoddy service should be ample evidence that regulation by quango is a joke that serves only the boards of the both regulator and the regulated. Fining them for being shit merely increases customer’s bills to pay the ‘fine’.

  144. 144
    Gonk says:

    Just back in my office now so missed earlier comment.
    Not sure what you mean really ! Unfair competitive advantage ?
    I certainly hope so. We have massive historical advantage for
    World trade through Commonwealth Countries and UK generally
    thought of in a positive manner.

  145. 145
    mikeb says:

    I don’t want him to campaign for withdrawal from the EUSSR – I want him to give me the chance to vote on continued membership

  146. 146
    Jimmy says:

    “What happens if his treasured renegotiation plan is rejected by other countries?”


  147. 147
    Anonymous says:

  148. 148
    Anonymous says:

    Jolly voting weather
    We are all europhiles
    We’re very clever
    And lie to you all the while
    You fell for our promise especially the CAST IRON trick
    We’re all from Eton, and you lot are all too thick.

    If you think I’ll claim back powers,
    You haven’t got a clue
    We’ll hand the UK to Merkle,
    There is nothing that you can do
    No referendums Changes through on the nod
    I am the PM and I’m a duplicitous sod

    As for immigration
    I know it gets on your tits
    I will flood the nation
    And pay their benefits
    I am from Eton; I am one of the ruling class
    If you don’t like it, you can just kiss my ****

    If I agreed the Treaty
    Things that it would amend
    Required referendums
    And that would be the end
    We’d be out of Europe and that’s what the public crave
    But I’m undemocratic, just call me dictator Dave

    Clegg is making noises
    Pretending he did not know
    If he really meant it
    Lib-Dems would pack up and go
    There all in it together, and David is now all smiles
    He has silenced the sceptics, with the aid of the Europhiles

    This has been a carve up
    Helped by Merkosy
    They need our money
    That is quite plane to see
    They played out the charade so it looks as if Dave’s alone
    But were still in the EU and we’ll pay for the Euro zone

    Jolly voting weather
    We are all Europhiles
    We’ve silenced the sceptics
    Look at their beaming smiles
    There’s no referendum, the sceptics are really thick.
    I am from Eton and those idiots missed the trick

  149. 149
    Anonymous says:

    The Times they are a changing

    Come all the electorate throughout the UK
    It’s time to ignore what the LIBLABCON say
    Lets face it these parties have all had their day
    Our politics need rearranging
    So go out and vote UKIP lets sweep them away
    For the times they are a changing

    Not one of them listens to our point of view
    They’d sooner give our cash to the EU
    So lets kick them out and try something new
    We can’t afford this lot remaining
    Political rethink is long overdue
    For the times they are a changing

    They lied about Lisbon and promised a vote
    There all Europhiles and in the same boat
    Their treachery just bring a lump to my throat
    As each other they just keep blaming
    So send them a message and let them take note
    That the times they are a changing

    We will no longer tolerate lies being told
    Tax breaks for the rich but more tax for the old
    Ruled from the EU and our birthrights sold
    They ignore us when we are complaining
    If we all vote UKIP there out in the cold
    For the times they all need changing

  150. 150
    Anonymous says:

    The Tory Cabinet Song

    Jolly big back-handers
    Added to our large hoard
    You can meet the PM
    We’ll take your views on board
    It’s not illegal so you wont be slapped in jail
    It’s common Knowledge our policies are for sale

    Don’t use direct debit
    That would just leave a trail
    We can’t have the public
    Knowing that were for sale
    If you are wanting to purchase committee votes
    I can arrange it for a bloody great wad of notes

    We know the public
    Are for the most part thick
    We’ve already cut your taxes
    Was that not a cunning trick
    We’ve clawed back the money from all of the OAPs
    We are the Tories and we can do what we please

    We’ve set the agenda
    By upping the Uni cost
    Cutting the Child Allowance
    Pensioners tax break lost
    We are getting richer so in us you should invest
    We’ve all got millions so bollocks to all the rest

  151. 151
    David Laws Lib Dem Fiddler says:

    The UK does not have to be on its own. It could join other Anglo-sphere countries who are growing better than the EU, alternatively the common wealth countries the UK abandoned for the dictatorship of the the EU.

    Cameron would not know what the people wanted nor what is in the Uk’s interest if it hit him squarely on his arrogant nose- he would have to ask the opinion of a focus group what ordinary people wanted.

  152. 152

    What amazes me is how he expects us to believe that he has the power to renegotiate. I mean for decades we have been a pain in the ass of the EU, always winging, demanding special treatment. France didnt even want us in in the first place. It would be ever so easy for the EU to say sod off you are more trouble that you are worth. And then we could be up the proverbial creek in terms of goodwill and input into future affairs.

    Breaking news England is no longer a special country. We are followers not leaders. America says jump we reply how high. I do realise that our governments use the EU to distract attention from problems at home but I can imagine that more than a few in Europe may be thinking is Britain worth the effort? I mean they have suffered decades of our winging.

    This is why I think a referendum is important – for if we are to be in, we need to be big boys and play by the rules, not insolent little twerps who always demand our own way. From the global influence perspective and ability to shape global policies, we need the EU far more than it needs us.

    Even the SNP realise that it is in our national interests to be in than out. I give you if you look at things purely form a money in v money out perspective things can look different, but that is just a question of leadership compared with me,me,me. [However I would myself be happier if the EU sorted its finances out better]

  153. 153
    Vichy Dave = Heath Mk.II says:

    Vichy Dave is no fool – he knows his personal future lies with the EU.

    A cosy sinecure, big fat expense account, a place at the trough, and most important of all – a tax-funded non-job that is safely beyond the reach of any democratic meddling.

  154. 154
    Stan Butler says:

    What a bell end Camoron is. Free from the hobble of the EU, we can once again freely negotiate with the countries who will be the economic powers of the 21st century. Tied to the EU we cannot, we have to negotiate through the EU. Not wise when you need growth Dave.

  155. 155
    Four-eyed English Genius says:

    Meanwhile, on Planet Earth, reality strikes!

  156. 156

    Reality is what we make it. I for one want a better future for humanity. Not everyone is bad. If we always thought thinks like “thats the way things are” science would get nowhere, if we always thought “that the way things hve always been done” we wouldnt adapt to changing times. Ask David Cameron, he is trying to inspire a naton – that is some dream.

  157. 157
    Eeyore says:

    Agree completely.

    Since when was ‘being like Switzerland’ a problem? They are rich, make their own laws and have very tight frontiers. Looks like a model for Britain to follow.

  158. 158
    Archie says:

    Well, thanks for that “clarification” Dave. But soft. What’s this I see? Men in grey suits heading for Number 10, no less! What’s that you say Dave? Another U-turn? Sorry too late. The electorate don’t believe a damned word that you utter now!

  159. 159
    Archie says:

    Top marks for that, Hank Cinque!

  160. 160
    Archie says:

    Since when have we been afraid to find our own way? Oh, yeah! Ever since we were manacled to that ramshackle abortion across the North Sea/Channel!

  161. 161
    Archie says:

    Precisely, Fork, so why are they so afraid of giving us our referendum; I mean if it’s such a beneficent arrangement for us, surely we would all be clamouring to join the Euro, innit?

  162. 162
    Archie says:

    Went to Eton, did we?

  163. 163
    Archie says:

    Er, that’s your, not “you’re”, and reins, not “reigns”. That’s what the Queen does!

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