The Treasury’s £100bn bung of cheap loans to business is meant to install confidence in the economy. Previous similar actions on a smaller scale has not worked and no number is given for the expected take up. Asked on Today what will happen if this does not work, Treasury minister Mark Hoban said “we need to make this work!” Just the sort of language to inspire that much sought after confidence…
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Tom Harris bemoans the public’s attitude to politicians…
“Mr Oborne echoes the lazy, anti-politics whine we hear so often these days, all based on the absurd notion that politicians were once loved and only fell out of public favour during the expenses scandal. He should take a walk to the Strangers’ Bar. But not to sup with the patrons he seems to despise so much, dearie me, no; he should instead look at the paintings on the corridor outside the bar, which depict the devastating fire which consumed most of the Palace in 1834. And he should reflect on the fact that on that dramatic night, as the Commons went up in flames, a crowd gathered on the South Bank to clap and cheer.”
The thing that Dave needs to work out is which group is more likely to vote Conservative. Mad swivel-eyed loons or mad homosexuals wishing to get married.
Properly run businesses don’t want loans. Especially at the moment.
It’s that simple.
By contrast if JGM2 enterprises were to get a slack (say) 5bn quid then I could buy British Airways, install myself as CEO and COO, pay myself millions every year, swan around the globe for free and, when BA inevitably went bust as a result of my lackadaisical mismanagement and reckless borrowing, I could just blame the banks.
Just like the Maximum Imbecile did.
Or even, like the banks, seek a rescue from … now let’s see now, who could it be?
Ah! Yes!
Us.
Renationalise British Airways? Madness.
It makes as much sense as having a nationalised broadcaster.
It makes perfect sense.
Government is TO BIG and has lost control of its finances and people. We are completely in the Shit being ran by people who have lost control
What’s stopping you?
What Is the point of putting money into a failing economy burdened by Wars and over taxation.
F-ck me dont mention the WAR. Peace time deficits? If Osboom cant work it out what chance do any of us have as we head into Economic collapse not seen for thousands of years. ASK the Romans
My boys need money, they are having difficulty laundering their ill gotten gains because the property development market is so flat, so any available spare money, send it down here to Portsmouth. Boaz.
This is too little, too late.
This was my idea – although I am delighted to see the Conservatives following my economic model and policies.
The Govt is simply trying to save itself.
It’s done very well from taxing the increasing credit supply over the last 30 years, which is why Govt’s fear credit contractions and deflation above all else.
They need constant growth to cover the debt interest. (Which is why 7.2% for a 10 yr bond is the rubicon)
It also need’s the banks to fund the deficit (via secondary market reverse gilt purchases) and disguise its money printing.
If the banks stop buying (which they will), then we have Govt collapse or hyperinflation-Probably circa 2017
Probably circa2017
My point exactly. I can understand startup cash for a new business, but as far as I am concerned, any long established business in the current climate that has not enough money to fund the next project, are not worth propping up.
Giving cheap cash for banks to lend, does not mean they will lend it. Even if they will, how many businesses are going to chance borrowing for expansion at the moment. Those that will may be a bat lending bet anyway, which is more of the same.
I’m fed up with the banks pretending they lend readily to good SME projects. They don’t and have not done so for 40 years, to my certain knowledge. What lending they DO make to SMEs has to be secured on the borrower’s house, lives of his children etc; if he’s a ltd co directors’ guarantees will be required.
So, they’re not bankers (except in the rhyming slang sense) but bloody pawnbrokers. Even successive govts’ lending guarantee schemes for SMEs have been cold-shouldered by the banks (sure, head office pretended to offer them, but at branch level they were brushed aside). They are hypocrites and have done almost as much to hold back the SME sector as our dreadful education system.
Still tying to buck the marketplace.
When will they learn?
If they want to see some consumer driven ‘growth’ then make loans available direct to individuals at 0.5% interest.
I’d borrow (say) ten million. Put one million aside to cover interest for the next 20 years and blow the other nine million on fast cars, foreign holidays, hookers, a villa in St Barths etc etc.
So that’s the reason they don’t do it. All it would do is fuel rampant inflation as everybody scrambled to turn printed money into fixed assets before the rest of the population figured out what was happening.
Yet when they try and manipulate the same outcome via cheap loans to companies we’re all supposed to believe that this won’t have exactly the same effect on inflation. They really do think we’re all fucking stupid don’t they?
If they want to see some consumer driven ‘growth’ then make loans available direct to individuals at 0.5% interest.
I’d borrow (say) ten million. Put one million aside to cover interest for the next 20 years and blow the other nine million on fast c*a*rs, foreign holidays, hookers, a villa in St Ba*rths etc etc.
So that’s the reason they don’t do it. All it would do is fuel rampant inflation as everybody scrambled to turn printed money into fixed assets before the rest of the population figured out what was happening.
Yet when they try and manipulate the same outcome via cheap loans to companies we’re all supposed to believe that this won’t have exactly the same effect on inflation. They really do think we’re all fucking stupid don’t they?
If they want to see some consumer dri*v*en ‘growth’ then make loans available direct to individuals at 0.5% interest.
I’d borrow (say) ten million. Put one million aside to cover interest for the next 20 years and blow the other nine million on fast cars, foreign holidays, hookers, a villa in St Barths etc etc.
So that’s the reason they don’t do it. All it would do is fuel rampant inflation as everybody scrambled to turn printed money into fixed assets before the rest of the population figured out what was happening.
Yet when they try and manipulate the same outcome via cheap loans to companies we’re all supposed to believe that this won’t have exactly the same effect on inflation. They really do think we’re all fucking stupid don’t they?
Sorry, that million set aside would cover the interest for 200 years.
Gah.
Is the BBC? Repeat after repeat?
I see what you did there.
In the same way ModBot saw what you did?
It would be hard not to make a profit with it at 0.5%.
You could borrow it from the government at 0.5% and lend it back to them at, oh, what’s the rate? 30 year bonds at about 3%?
Oh, hang on….
5 year bonds yield at the moment aproximately inflation (tax free) + 3% interest (taxed @ 40%), which would generate (inflation @ a nominal 3.5% ) £53,000 per annum without touching the capital.
£9m @ 0.5% would genrate interest of – £45,000 +£8,000 off the principal – Nice work if you can get it jgm2, and it could go on forever!!
Taxpayers forced to pay AGAIN — subsidising the Banks and dodgy businesses that can’t raise funds at proper rates — socialist paradise
Here’s a couple of ideas for the socialist coalition.
1: Radically cut taxes.
2: Stop pissing money away on useless shite, international aid and the E ewe.
3: Lower energy costs by getting the hell out of the energy market and stop manipulating prices upwards with green subsidies.
4: Slash and burn the Quagocracy.
5: Remove stupid regulations that benefit none but massive corporations.
6: Cut local government and Whitehall staffing and wage levels by 20%.
7: Stop bailing out feckless socialist governments.
8: End mass uncontrolled immigration and end benefit payments to those who have contributed nothing to the system.
Job done.
As Ronald Reagan once said, “The words guaranteed to inspire fear in the hearts of every business man, “We are from the Government, we are here to help!”"
Get rid of the minimum wage and NIC for employers on under 25 year olds, stop the HMRC harrassing businesses and business people, get rid of some of the onerous rules and just fuck off out of the way.
“and just fuck off out of the way…”
+ 1,000,000
and another + 1,000,000 from me too!
Yep, me too.
Put me down for a couple of billion, in other words, what it will cost for a cup of tea in gbp if we don’t get rid of the socialist Tories PDQ.
Plus sack 20% of all non-front line public sector shirkers now, and repeat every 12 months until further notice. Freeze all public sector inflation proofing of pay and pensions until the deficit is zero and has remained so for 3 years.
Stop xxxxking about with pretend cuts, just do it.
Alas no chance with all the MPs only interested in being re-elected to their expenses paid sinecures.
Or give ‘em a 20% paycut. They’ve just had an effective four year mortgage holiday with rates slashed to keep house pr*i*ces artificially inflated. Surely they’ve been using the money saved to pay down their loans?
The first the the tories should have done on getting into power was realise where their biggest opposition to cuts would be controlled and encouraged from.
Scrap all government advertising in the Gruaniad and break up the BBC.
Then once opposition is far to broken up, running round like headless chickens, implement a scale of cuts which is necessary to bring down taxes before the next election.
Set business free to compete internationally to win an increasing share of the 4.5 billion consumers in the growing economies outside the EU.
Of course that would have necessitated the second thing the government should have done on taking power. Delivery of an in-or-out referendum on EU membership, whilst campaigning for OUT!
Time to cut TV Licencing?
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/34655
Abolish income tax and reduce government spending to what it was in 2006 to compensate.
His comments followed a lengthy chat with Ed Balls, Hoban could have said anything, the vast majority of people where probably still shouting at the radio calling him a knob head.
FFS.
Another slush fund for Bankers.
We dont want cheap credit – we want tax cuts – that is the only way to attain growth.
The Government should get the hell out of the way – they do not create jobs or wealth – the private sector free market does that.
All we want is lower taxes, a bonfire of the EU regulations & politicians out of the free market economy.
Sure;ly there is one Conservative in Dave Camerons cabal of social democrats that understands this basic stuff?
Of course not!
The basic problem is that government, to use a cliche, does not “add value”. It cannot pro-actively improve the business prospects of anyone, nor do anything meaningful to increase output. It can cut taxes and regulation, but that would be like admitting it can’t do anything to help, thus defeating the point of government in the first place. That’s a scary position to be in if you’re a politician vying for power.
Not as scary as running away from the mob if they don’t stop ruining the country
If there is, they will have been trapped in a sack and locked in a cupboard, pending deselection.
Who exactly receives this money , how do they get a share ?
i was led to believe they gave the money to the banks , and they hoard it or use it to pay off their own debts ?
It’s most likely, a thinly disguised bung to their banking chums, maybe 1% might find it’s way into the outside world, at best.
Exactly how much more of this stuff and nonsense do we have to do before we, as a country, have to grovel before the IMF and ask “Err. Excuse me. We need a small favour…”?
mornin mate , trust you are well MFHsoC is no more
the mods have blocked it
the spaz TaT must have posted a nasty so for the last week the site wont accept a post
Copy, paste and keep the following:
MАD FRАNKIE HАDDОCK sоn оf CОD
Already tested elsewhere.
Good morning your excellency!
I am fit as a butcher’s dog, thanks. Hope you will be swimming normally again. The bronze age is not that easily forgotten.
It’s been blocked for a week
maybe the mods have now checked to see which computer ID it came from
I own and run a small business with my wife and I shan’t be helping to “make this work”. Why? Because, firstly, we run a cash surplus and don’t buy anything we can’t afford and, secondly, because if there is no market for our services, having paying loans to pay makes it harder to survive. FFS, is there no end to this mad delusion that debt will solve our problems.
Puts me in mind of the great, unparalleled Homer – Homer Simpson: “Here’s to alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.”
I mean “having to pay loans”, sorry. I was momentarily seduced by all these cheap loans and looking into leasing a Jaguar XJ Ultimate and stocking its fridge with d’Yquem and foie gras. I mean, if we’re all going bust anyway, it makes sense to go out with a fucking big bang.
Indeed. If they want folk to borrow more money to stimulate the economy then I’d be delighted to borrow as much as they care to print at 0.5% interest. As I’ve said before I would then set aside 10% of the loan amount which would cover the interest on the total amount for 20 years and blow the rest.
If I was feeling really prudent I could set aside 20% of the loan amount and cover the interest for 40 years by which point I’ll most likely be dead.
No I shan’t be doing that. Instead, I’ll work my tits off learning marketable skills. Is that OK?
How much is your rent/mortgage Wory?
Try cleaning windows and not leaning on lamp-posts.
Rory, think about what % of those on Jobseekers allowance are genuinely trying to find a job as apposed to playing the system for all it’s worth before making ingnorant and facile comments.
I thought Rory Weal was something you caught from drinking rats’s unrine
Magnum
Jobseekers is £71 per week now!
There are no jobs. Unless you are an immigrant. Then there are thousands.
No jobs?
Make your own, learn a skill then employ yourself. It’s not hard or difficult, unless of course, you can’t think outside of wage slavery.
+ several million self employed! Very good point Archer K.
why would you live on £65 for the month..surely it would be £240
260….oh forfucksakes lol!
£284 – and that’s only personal JSA -it’s only the starting point. If you’re married, got kids, got a mortgage, have to pay rent, benefits goes up and up and up.
Why work? – there’s plenty of Eastern Europeans daft enough to come and do that.
And your rent paid!
and your rates (or whatever they are called now) paid!
And whatever other disability moeny they scam!
Or how about a nice new mobility car!
W.W.
Aah, the Law of Unintended Consequences ! Wonderfull.
I know, let’s take tax payers money, give it to the banks, and let them loan it back to the people at interest!
Genius!!!
Those girls can do their own hair! STOP THE ASIAN GROOMERS
How much pay and benefits will we get as non-execs on many of the Banks boards after we’ve finished failing in our current jobs? Have we bribed them with enough taxpayers money to oil / grease our passages yet, or would another £500bn or so be better?
Mervy – your Al Zeimer’s back – you ARE already on the board of a bank! And Gordmong McTwat started all of this bailing out and printing money, and he couldn’t get a job at a sperm bank at the moment!
As an owner of a small engineering business employing 6 people, the last thing I want to do is to borrow more money.
All I am interested in paying down debt
Meanwhile, I am waiting on creditors who tell me their customer – the government – is making them wait months to be paid. Why should I borrow when what is needed is the government to pay its bills?
Osborne is using the phrase ‘Max out’ now is he?
The very phrase he used to characterise the insanity of mad mental McDoom’s financial plans.
Truly this current Tory leadership must be the most shit since Heath, and his gang of poofs
What leadership?
Yesterday, Dave did what Dave does best – looking like a shifty, clueless cun*t who couldn’t find his own arse with both hands.
I am seriously worried now this current gang of ‘top’ Tories, added to the slimy, treacherous, back stabbing Lib Dem vermin will do as much damage to the Tory party as was done during the chaos of the Major years.
Any damage caused by those you mention will be minimal compared with that we are suffering as a result of 13 years of LieBour goverment.
Comforting to know that one set of corrupt fuckwits is being followed by another.
Some of us voted Conservative on the assumption that they might try to make things better – we obviously won’t be making that mistake again.
So – you’ll vote for a different mistake, in the mistaken belief that your compounded mistake will produce……?
YOU are the Lucasian professor of philosophy, and I claim my £5.
a financial conundrum: trade/industry has no strong need to borrow; investors cannot properly save (because of inflation)
has goverment’s and the financial sector’s manipulation gone so far as to destroy two of money’s prime uses?
all we are left with are the accounting and transaction functions
What is the point of injecting stimulus into an already dead corpse?
Magnum
Seemed to get Gordmong McTwat to the table at Leveson.
I do want to borrow more money. In the last 12 months we have grown from 35 staff to 140 with turnover up by a factor of 500% and profits growing but are now on hold as we cam not get working capital to fund further cashflow expansion
But forgive my cynicism. The banks just will not lend and when they do try and push us into vey expensive products eg offed us credit cards for directors at 2% / month but refuse us debit cards on our own business account! When we challenged them they offered us a facility review at a charge of £350 with £200 fee for any new cards! Deposit cash with them And it’s a2% levy. Foreign currency is a mere 7% charge for taking it off your hands squire.
Evil rapacious bastards
Good luck in your endeavour. The lefties, of course, hate you as a capitalist scumbag but I think you’re ok.
By the way, have you tried the Co-Op bank for business? They can be quite good. Apologies if it’s teaching granny to suck eggs.
Hoban is a useless weasel
Sally Bercow tweets: its ‘kin lush in B’bdos! Up the workers!
Has she never been able to write in the Queen’s English, or has being out in the sun suddenly caused her to adopt the communications skills of an uneducated teenager from a Northern council estate?
“£100bn bung”
How many country suppers would that buy in the Cotswolds?
Is the main function of central banks and national govs, while claiming an intention to ‘regulate’, to pump money into banks? Beyond the joke of BoE QE, there’s the EZ. Banks borrow from ECB at a low rate, lend to govs at a high rate, for those govs, in turn, to lend to banks at a low rate. Meanwhile the populace is in ‘austerity’
Politicos & central bankers, idiots or do they have hidden agenda?
Their agenda is corruption. I have plenty of confidence in my own business but no confidence in HM Government.
I’m not sure it is corruption in an intended sense.
I don’t beliebve they are competent enough to be corrupt.
Like Brown though, they could well be classed as ciminally insane.
W.W.
will this new money have a special serial number so we can know when we have received some ?
There is no demand in the economy….businesses will not borrow as they have no confidence ….many businesses are sitting on huge cash reserves..banks are sitting on huge cash reserves required by the new rules on captialisation….debt is what got us into the mess in the first place…..
My company does not need cheap loans, it needs government departments to provide a level playing field and buy from my small firm and others like it instead of the croney capitalists who have stitched up all the purchasing in cahoots with the civil servants.
I sense that you’re familiar with the term, Central Procurement.
It is going to be a major depression, much like the dustbowl of the 1930s in the US.
I really don’ think that the average person realises what is coming.
I think we will look at the 1930′s with envy.
This is going to be worse, much worse.
Instead of £80b, why not make it £800b, £800t, the end result is going to be the same.
I’m afraid it really is time now to stock up on the essentials, and some form of weapon to protect your family.
Is anyone sure that Osbourneisn’t that other lunatic, Brown in disguise.
W.W.
The financial system is rooted in fraud. No sustainable recovery is possible absent the removal of this fraud.
You wanna help the economy try QE for the people. Give people money and make it a condition that those with debts use the money to pay down the debt, those without debts will be compensated for the theft visited on them by ZIRP.
Will this happen? No chance – it is bad for fraud
Exactly! It’s our money so why not give it to us? We pay our debts, the banks gets their cash back. We buy new products, perhaps a new kitchen giving a local trademan a job, he hires someone to help him, that person comes off welfare.
Both the tradesman and his hired help spend the money in the local economy, we might just see some real growth in the wider economy.
Good morning Bank Manager!
Good morning, Mr Scroggins. What can I do for you?
Well I have a big problem. I am up to my £55,000 limit on my blue credit card and cannot even make a monthly repayment.
Oh dear! That is very bad. Have you been controlling your finances properly?
I have done everything I can think of.
OK. Well, We have just brought out a red credit card. The limit is £100,000 on that. So we can transfer the balance from the blue card to the red card with a fee of £25,000. That will give you some time. But I would warn you to go carefully. That is the top colour we have at the moment. There is a yellow credit card in the planning stages but we don’t know when it will be out. If you run out again, I may not be able to help you.
Thank you, Bank Manager!
Don’t think they will have a problem making this bung work just give it to India and China to help the in space exploration and allow the Indian taxis in the cities to get more GPS for free, curtsy of the Bank of England printers
Until the decaying corpse that is the Euro is finally laid to rest, any attempts to kick start the UK economy are bound to be futile. No hindsight is needed to work that out.
And yet the British media by and large completely ignore mentioning what is being said by British MEPs in Eurolalaland. Unlike the Americans.
http://nation.foxnews.com/nigel-farage/2012/06/14/uk-pol-goes-epic-rant-euro-titanic-has-now-hit-iceberg
“You know, this deal makes things worse not better. A hundred billion [euro] is put up for the Spanish banking system, and 20 per cent of that money has to come from Italy. And under the deal the Italians have to lend to the Spanish banks at 3 per cent but to get that money they have to borrow on the markets at 7 per cent. It’s genius isn’t it. It really is brilliant.
So what we are doing with this package is we are actually driving countries like Italy towards needing to be bailed out themselves.”
In other news, FTSE 100 still down from 12 F**KING YEARS AGO!!!
I don’t know why everybody bangs on about growth, surely it would be better to have a stable, sustainable arrangement
Many companies DO want loans. The only snag is that many of them will go bust and not be able to repay the loans. And so the banks will lose that money just as they did in the credit crunch. Apparently our politicians have not learned any lessons from that.
Lending more money to banks to take risks with is not the answer. The answer is to ditch the EU and give priority to acquiring trade agreements with non-European countries without the trading shackles that the EU have currently tied around our feet. Only that will get our businesses working again.
Countries don’t trade. Businesses trade.
Wha we want are tax cuts to put money in the pockets of the public and, more importantly, to keep it out of the pockets of the politicians who keep wasting it on foreign aid and loony schemes.
It is of course impossible for government to impose lending on banks. They know it, we know it.
So this latest pig on pork round amounts to nothing more than another temporary bank bail out.
The banks are bust, sovereigns are bust. The longer they put off confronting the truth the worse will be the eventual social and economic explosion.
Didn’t someone abolish boom and bust?
At lest John Bercow Is / Was in a relationship with a member of the opposite sex Which is more than can be said for most MP’s
OMIGOD!! The ad at the bottom of this thread on my computer is for “Johnson’s Baby”.
Is there something being hidden from us?
an Ad at the bottom of the thread, really ? I don’t see one. perhaps “They” have infiltrated your computer.
Do you mean “instil confidence” ?