January 29th, 2012

Zero GDP Growth Has Zero To Do With €urozone

Last week’s shrinking GDP figures were spun by George Osborne as due to the crisis in the €urozone. The decline in GDP could hardly be blamed on the US market which is picking up and growing at a respectable 2.8% last quarter, nor on Asian markets where China grew at an annualised 8.9% and India at 7.8%.

Is the decline in UK GDP really, as George Osborne implies, down to economic trade with the crisis ridden continent falling? The answer is no.

UK exports to €urozone states actually rose a healthy 11.3% last year:

It is a myth that the decline in GDP has anything to do with the €uro-crisis leading to a decline in exports to the €urozone. The barriers to growth are a domestic problem… 


350 Comments

  1. 1
    A passer by says:

    Its down to regulation, high taxes and a class of people that want to sit on thier arses all day.

    Too many have become stste dependent as oppossed to self dependent.

    Like

    • 8
      A passer by says:

      Ps has anyone got % numbers of the size of the non productive public sector v producers in the private sector?

      the other drag is state spending, the people that want to create jobs are being taxed out of it.

      For the state to demand a min of 20% and 50% of peoples own rewards for thier labour is a scandal that is holding people back.

      Why risk creating obs when any reward is tiny (and i mean tiny, smaller than the dwarf that Mike Tindall tossed)

      Like

      • 18
        A passer by says:

        Just one more point.

        you say the USA has respectable growth, yet they took the route that you clamed was wrong ( stimulas, extra spending etc), I have read somewhere that the Chinsese figures are not to be trusted.

        Like

        • 21
          for public consumption only says:

          I think we can take it that the USA actually had 0% growth.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            B!11y, since when are you a passer by. You are a permanent resident notwithstanding the attempts tp block you.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            b!11y, since when are you a passer by. You are< despite attempts to ban you, a permanent resident on this blog.

            Like

        • 26
          Sally Chan says:

          Like

        • 30

          The USA is growing. And being the reserve currency of the world they decided to spend their way to growth. It costs the government there around $235,000 to create each $35,000 job.

          That’s why even ’5 year planner in chief commissar Obama’ is finally looking at excessive ‘payroll taxes.’

          Which is what I suspect Mr Fawkes has in mind.

          Government worry about how much is immediately lost though scrapping NI at 12.5% on everyone’s job. They can’t decide if the maths makes it revenue neutral through ‘x’ coming in and ‘y’ coming off jobseekers.

          They really should just do it. Its a piece of piss for them to raise taxes if they find its not working.
          They do it all the time. Just raise NI to 13% or 15% if they find they need more aid for Africa or another bronze statue of an obelisk for a village or arts centre for a hamlet.

          Like

          • Put Housing Benefit Claimants into Caravans says:

            It is the public sector parasites that are causing the problem. I could go and earn more and spend more but I won’t until these parasites are eliminated.

            Like

          • George Osborne IS Gordon Brown says:

            The embarrassing truth is that, for all his [George Osborne's] talk about how you can’t borrow your way out of a debt crisis, he [George Osborne] is now trying to do just that. Before the last election, fearful of Labour attacks, he adopted a deficit reduction plan that was only a slightly modified version of the one proposed by Gordon Brown. He dressed it up in the language of austerity, and still speaks in blood-curdling terms about the urgent need to confront the deficit – while borrowing more than even Labour planned. It has been a political success: just look at those opinion polls. But not, so far, an economic success.

            The list of undead Brownite policies lingering in the Treasury is long and ignominious. Osborne inherited a 51p tax on the rich, and upped it to 52p (courtesy of National Insurance). Brown planned for UK net debt to rise by 60 per cent, to £1.37 trillion. Osborne, for all his talk, is raising it by 61 per cent to £1.4 trillion. Both men pinned their hopes on the Bank of England printing a colossal amount of money, one of the biggest quantitative easing experiments the world has ever seen. Both have a weakness for tinkering. Both show little interest in supply-side economics, and regard tax cuts not as a stimulatory tool, but as a luxury to be awarded at some point in the future, and only if the country behaves itself.

            courtesy of Fraser Nelson in the Torygraph

            Like

          • The Son of the Manse (who wrote about Heroism) says:

            I performed a Miracle!!

            I turned Gold into euros!

            Like

          • Little Georgie Osborne says:

            You are my hero Gordon! I aspire to reach your heights and so have decided to”lend” more money to the IMF so that Madame Lagarde can piss it down the Euro hole.

            Like

        • 119
          Really is really good... says:

          .
          .
          economic growth or personal growth…

          Decisions, Decisions.

          Like

        • 139
          Osama the Nazarene says:

          I certainly would not trust the Chinese figures, closed totalitarian society.

          Like

          • Disco Dave says:

            And you trust UK figures because..?

            Like

          • Osama the Nazarene says:

            I trust UK figures because we live in an open democratic society where politicians and their civil servants are ultimately accountable to us. Naive, maybe but its a triillion times preferable to being ruled by unelected party apparatchicks.

            Like

        • 224

          US has lower taxes and a smaller public sector, we would have to fire 11% of public sector to slim down to US proportions.

          Like

        • 338
          Geoff says:

          The US not only has 0% growth, it also has hugely manipulated statistics, the largest deficit in absolute terms in history, never ending imperial wars, and a totally corrupt, fascist government.
          Poverty is of epidemic proportions in America today and law enforcement is increasingly aimed towards population control.
          To use America as an example of good practice in any way is ludicrous.

          Like

      • 41

        Currently the UK Civil ‘Service” (A complete oxymoron in every way) is roughly 22% of the total workforce. Adding in the Benefit Dependents (who are about as productive as most of the Whitehall paper shufflers) might make interesting reading if anyone has that figure…

        Frankly, no economy can sustain a burden of this size on the productive sector.

        Like

        • 56
          Benny Fitz-Clements says:

          Calm down dear; the gummunt’s still printing my hand-outs.

          Like

        • 58
          Tax slave says:

          The ‘civil’ should be in ironic quotation marks too, if the HMRC Hunts are anything to go by.

          If you ring their office after 4:30pm they just pick up the phone and put it down again to stop it ringing. Work obviously stops well before their official go-home time.

          Like

        • 63
          Anonymous says:

          You could add all those jobbies done by private firms doing the jobbies that civil servants used to do, putting job seekers through pointless courses to”help them get jobs” actually reduce the unemployed figures, private health firms used to knock sickness benefit claimants off sickness benefits and paid for each one they they knock off, the list can go on and on. Many on here have probably never had the “joy” of being made redundant, a lot of the city jobs could be exported to India or China, city companies are not bothered they follow the bottom line, take it or leave it.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            That film The Full Monty depicted it as it was in the mid 80′s even, that was not as bad as in Christmas 1980 250,000 in one go over the country

            Like

      • 123
        Some lonely guy says:

        When did you last pay 20%?
        The minimum tax rate is NI, the next bracket is NI + Basic rate so when you get the privilege of paying basic rate you’re at over 30%.

        Like

      • 214
        Saga Lout says:

        For the state to demand a min of 20% and 50% of peoples own rewards …. and the rest!

        By the time a basic rate tax payer gives 23% income tax, 10% NI (a tax all but in name), 20% VAT on almost everything purchased and approx 75% tax on booze, fags and petrol, the real tax rate is around 60%! And if you’re a higher rate tax payer its obviously even more.

        A tax burden of this magnitude means that for every pound earned only 40p goes into the productive economy and demonstrates why the economy is struggling to grow.

        Like

    • 11
      Up sh1t creek says:

      What is needed is the government to STOP SPENDING and STOP PRINTING MONEY and STOP LAUNDERING FAKE MONEY THROUGH UK ECONOMY.

      Osborne and the rest of the Keynesians cry about interest rates. The abnormal low rates are CRIPPLING the UK economy. Good money is being turned to bad money, then there will be nothing left to drive an economy forward.

      You screwed the savers and pension funds who would normally keep an economy ticking over in a downturn. But your fixation to bailout borrowers with savers cash, now it’s payback from the savers with your ever worsening GDP. Savers are not spending their money on what would help an economy, they are protecting their wealth.

      Two fingers to George Osborne, David Cameron, Ed Balls, Ed Miliband, Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, and BoE head Mervyn King. You are nothing more than asset strippers.

      Like

      • 345
        Anonymous says:

        It looks as if Gideon has been to the Gordon Brown School of Gurning, he is learning from the master in more ways than one

        Like

    • 28
      Rat's arse says:

      Spot on passer by. America and other countries don’t have our generous benefits, so have more in the kitty.

      Those work shy b*stards, of which there are many, don’t give a stuff about this country.

      Like

    • 42
      Taxfodder says:

      Many people who could work and invest in the country’s future know the score.

      They can see well enough.

      Work hard then have your profits creamed off with taxes.

      Take a business risk then experience state cronies who take no risk take the lions share, then Banks, Insurance Health and Safety join the merry throng around your cash and property.

      Be Honest and truthful, then see MP’s and town hall cronies fiddle their expenses with no chance of being punished.

      I don’t blame much of the population for sitting on their arse…they might as well, they know only too well the minute you earn a few bob through a little hard work and risk the state jumps in and pinches ever increasing chunks of it.

      No, good luck to them…better than being a lifelong Mug!

      Like

      • 53
        JH says:

        “When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion – when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing – when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors – when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you – when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice – you may know that your society is doomed.”

        Ayn Rand

        Like

    • 181
      Bloke says:

      Absolutely correct, passer by.

      Like

    • 349
      Robin Hood Robbing You says:

      You’re dead right check this Stalinist Plan from the NCC!
      All for a tram run by a private company that takes the poor from one shit hole in Nottingham to another one!
      http://www.cwu.org/index.php/

      Like

  2. 2
    John Devine says:

    Good party, was it ?

    Like

  3. 3
    Simon Lewis says:

    What a nonsensical comment. Obviously you don’t understand anything about economics.

    Like

  4. 4
    From my ski lift says:

    No more faffing around agonising over capitalism, it’s time for Cameron and Osborne to deregulate, liberalise and unleash the politics of growth.

    Like

    • 7
      timing is everything says:

      Is it near enough the next election though?

      Like

    • 154
      Britain's got talent. says:

      Black economy leaves £42bn hole in Britain’s tax accounts. Independent.

      Deregulate, liberalise, lower the tax rate and, as elsewhere, the black economy emerges to become legit as the incentive to operate in the shadows diminishes.

      A lot of those boys and girls have the brains and ingenuity to make the difference…unlike the uninspired plodders and self.righteous no-hopers in many branches of the public sector.

      Like

      • 333
        JH says:

        It may reduce tax receipts, but the money is not ‘taken out the economy’ as the lefties like to wail. The proceeds will still be spent, just not on diversity outreach co-ordinators and the other shit the state makes up to spray money about for the useless to snatch and feel entitled to.

        I have a growing network of friends who are builders, farmers, programmers and other useful trades. We do work for each other on a barter basis, and only settle up the difference for the services rendered about once a year. In cash.

        Mr taxman knows nothing of it. It’s none of his fucking business.

        Like

  5. 5
    Anonymous says:

    More spending now is.clearly the answer.Govt has depressed demand.

    Like

    • 9
      nuff said says:

      Bollocks, we need real growth not Noddy Land economics.

      Like

    • 98
      AC1 says:

      bending a mirror really makes you thinner…

      Holding a magnet near a compass makes you change direction…

      Increasing debt for consumption is economic growth…

      Like

    • 334
      JH says:

      Yes, it has depressed demand.

      With taxes on jobs, busybodies interrupting progress, and a dead-weight bureaucracy which makes investment and innovation either too risky financially due to the potential profit immediately being set upon by swarms of gov-locusts.

      Even if there is a potential financial reward, putting the work in can be too depressing to contemplate – people don’t like seeing their efforts destroyed in front of their eyes.

      Like

  6. 6
    cider drinker says:

    UK exports to €urozone states actually rose a healthy 11.3% last year:
    These exports wouldnt happen to be our £10/£20 notes would it , to prop up the failed Euro ??

    Like

  7. 10
    CHRIST ON A BIKE! says:

    The UK is drowning in debt. Government, consumer and business levels of debt, are the highest in the world. Without proper supply side policies to boost productivity, we’ll just sink beneath waves.

    Like

    • 33
      Rh- says:

      Speak for yourself … I’ve paid off my mortgage.

      Like

    • 100
      AC1 says:

      Productivity is principally hit by taxation on incomes, employment, spending and saving.

      “Supply Side Policies” is just like clocking cars is except it’s done by “government economists”.

      The main beneficiaries of selling British Children’s futures are those already bailed out.

      Like

  8. 12
    Anonymous says:

    he wants to trash it ,so they can clean up later

    Like

  9. 13
    Julie Davies says:

    As long as I’m getting paid for my teaching non-job, who cares?
    You know where to find me in Haringey.

    Like

  10. 14
    Martin Freeman says:

    This is what the people vote for if you let ‘em, bless ‘em. We really can’t allow this to happen again.

    Like

  11. 15
    I Squiggle says:

    Here we go again, you’re advocating tax reduction, aren’t you? Business as well as individual. I notice Alex Salmond has said business tax will be reduced post independence – in response to business leaders up there such Michelle Mone, creator of lingerie brand Ultimo (and hats off etc to her) saying they will relocate on independence. How can he pay for that? Is he Ken with an accent? This is the route that Ireland took – I give you Mr Micawber!

    Like

  12. 16
    ciconia says:

    Look around.
    M40 and M25 were very quiet yesterday. Talk to the shopkeepers; business is very light. Traffic is noticeably down. In the north and the south, the traditional crowds weren’t at the post Christmas sales. It isn’t all down to Amazon.

    High inflation, job security worries, high fuel costs- why would we spend?
    My savings are eroded by inflation, but spending on things I don’t need is worse.
    It’s hardly brain surgery- it’s not banks not wanting to lend; we’re all behaving a bit more responsibly.

    I haven’t seen much sign of government reducing its costs, its actually borrowing more.

    Like

    • 25
      The bleeding obvious says:

      Since the past decade involved almost everyone buying stuff with money they didnt have its not surprising that being more responsible with our spendings means sales are down. Its not rocket science to realise this.

      Like

  13. 17

    The problem rather reminds me of this old Russian joke:

    A. My wife has been going to cooking school for three years.

    B. She must really cook well by now.

    A. No, they’ve only reached the part about the Twentieth CPSU Congress so far.

    Like

  14. 19
    Gordon Brown-Stain says:

    Nursie was HORRIBLE to me this morning. I did a HUGE jobbie in the corner, the biggest you have ever seen. But she chopped it up with a bread knife and flushed it down the poo-poo.

    It made me very cross because I wanted to put it on my train set and watch it go round and round. When it got to the station I could stop the train and salute it like the Fat Controller. But she wouldn’t let me. I HATE nursie.

    Like

    • 47
      Olympic Nursie says:

      Cleaning up POO!!!!

      Does your nurse have no self respect?

      We don’t wipe bottoms any more! We have degrees I’ll have you know…

      Like

    • 57
      Jane Pilgrim says:

      Nursie was only doing her jobbie, Gordon. She didn’t have time to watch you play with your poo because she had to dash off to a union meeting, which means she is a very good nursie.

      Like

      • 282
        Some poor sod in a bed in the corner says:

        she said she’s got to finish her dissertation for her Masters’ degree too – she’s so busy!

        she’s a fu*kin awful nurse though! – but I s’pose she can’t be good at everything.

        Like

  15. 20
    Anonymous says:

    The UK is incredibly lazy these days. Has any one heard speak of “PRODUCTIVITY” in the last 5 years or so?

    Every one has a right to everything regardless of whether the money has been earned. Even the minimum wage is a retard to increasing productivity.

    But joe public couldn’t careless as Liebor are just so fond of just giving people money, whether they are in this country or not!

    You are just getting your just rewards!

    Jobs as in spain and other european countries are flowing to more competitive nations where so much greed is not allowed!

    Like

  16. 22
    Europe Sucks says:

    Like

  17. 23
    Raving Loon says:

    Why isn’t there a recovery? Because the government spending is over half of GDP. This is government engineered stagnation. It is taking resources from the productive part of the economy and wasting it on the unproductive public sector. The nation’s effective tax rate is over 40%. The present government, despite innacurate claims that is cutting spending, is actually spending and borrowing more than Gordon Brown ever did. The real problem is not the defecit, which we have every year, it’s the national debt of over £1,000,000,000,000. That figure though ignores unfunded public sector liabilities, so the real figure is likely 4x as big.

    What we’re experiencing now is in fact reality. The last decade or so was actually the problem, an asset price bubble caused by loose moneteray policy and harmful government regulation creating an economy where all must have houses, and that the prices of those houses must rise inexorably. We stopped being a real producer and relied on cheap credit and borrowing to boost spending which created the illusion of growth.

    Worse still, the artificially cheap credit created by central banks around the world lowered the hurdle rate on hitherto assanine investments and lending opportunities which inevitably went bust. However, because of all the bailouts and government “support” the toxic debt, and even more toxic banks which are not worth anything are still in the system and have not been liquidated. No one wants to risk capital or invest because the economy is built on sand and could go under any minute, unfortunately the government won’t let it go under so the problem will persist.

    Let the banks, countries and feckless fail. Liquidate the bad debt. Return to sound money and stop exhausting the fruit of our labour under the pretense of taking care of us. Going cold turkey will be painful for many, but it’s the only way to return to real growth again, not false growth based on Keynesian demand management, and central bank engineered bubbles.

    Like

    • 159
      • 186
        Long suffering citizen among many says:

        Correct. We, the nation, have just done the near equivalent of having lost a war. Our productive capacity has been figuratively bombed and have incurred about five million casualties who have been lost to wealth creation….public employees, long term professional welfare dependents and an army of war widows ie single mothers who have ‘lost’ their breadwinner and have subsituted the state for the missing father.

        Like

    • 257
      TONY BENN'S WILL says:

      There won’t be a recovery until we’ve had the recession,there a loads of people with money but they won’t do anything with it till we hit the bottom of the recession or downturn,and unfortuneately the government is preventing the recession as best it can with bailouts and QE. Having said that I’d hate to see labour get back in.

      Another point regarding how many people are receiving benefits of more than £26,000 ( something like 250.000 ) what about the number receiving £25.000 and £24,000 and £23,000 etc we haven’t had that figure

      Like

  18. 24
    Curious of Skegness says:

    What did we sell them?

    Like

  19. 27
    Cringle says:

    Government doesn’t want growth because they fear growth would lead to the UK losing its AAA rating. Government are keeping demand as low as humanly possible to prevent growth as all costs. Companies are sitting on billions they will not invest because of lack of or falling demand – exactly as government planned.

    Like

    • 35

      The government planned falling demand?
      How? How exactly did the government persuade companies not to invest?

      Was it through record high interest rates at the local bank? Record of 0.5%?

      Go back to your tent and try again.

      Like

      • 46
        jgm2 says:

        If they want to get spending going again and charge off down the same lunatic borrowing-and-squandering route that gave us the biggest recession in 80 years then I could fix that overnight.

        Interest rates are supposedly 0.5%. But you try and actually borrow any money at 0.5%. You’ll be lucky to be able to borrow it at 5%.

        To hell with it, if I could borrow money at 0.5% for years to come I might be tempted to indulge myself a little bit too. An average wage of 25K a year would pay the interest on 5 million quid. Fucking Hell. Ferraris, penthouses in Monaco and racing dr*iv*er yachts all round.

        A chap with only 1,000 quid in the bank could use it to pay the interest on a 20K loan for 10 years. By which point inflation (at 5%) will have taken care of the 20K anyway. The very fact that Joe Public can’t get his hands on this 0.5% money tells you all you need to know about whose debts are being inflated away. The banks. And the governments.

        And who’s suffering from inflation without being able to benefit from it – folk with money in the bank.

        The prudent are being sacrificed to bail out the reckless, the feckless and the fuckwitted.

        Like

        • 66
          Ivor Tapeworm says:

          Exactly. The bank’s debts are being paid with a Government tax on our cash and savings called ‘inflation’.

          Like

          • A. Ignoramus says:

            Please sir, I’m fed up paying taxes for stupid politicos to waste on the EUSSR, each others binges and joy rides, stupid vanity projects, ridiculous overseas aid, daft wars, the yobs, the sluts with 3 babas, the feckless workshy, insane windmill scams, ads in the Grouniad, and last, but not least, – the BBC.

            So can I have ALL my money back, – and no more tax demands?

            Thanks,

            Like

        • 77
          Gordon Brown says:

          Hee hee hee. I haven’t gone away. You thought Davey would stop this stupidity. Suckers!

          Like

        • 213
          Rip van Wrinkle says:

          As usual, jgm2, spot on the money.

          Like

  20. 29
    Rh- says:

    Georgie boy …. STOP TAXING MY @SS TO THE POINT I DONT HAVE ANY MONEY TO SPEND!
    Leave me a bit more in the monthly paypacket and I promise to go out and spunk the lot on crap I dont need so helping sales.
    Its not rocket science.

    Like

    • 45
      Put Housing Benefit Claimants into Caravans says:

      The problem is Labour’s debt, just think how much taxes could be reduced if the debt wasn’t there and the welfare budget was halved.

      Like

      • 68
        Calamity Clegg says:

        Where’s your sopping wet, soft, cuddly and fuzzy liberal side ?? Raise taxes on anyone who’s worked hard for years and put a little aside and distribute it to feckless spongers. We FibDems get goosebumps when we do that.

        Like

  21. 32
    Anonymous says:

    The two are clearly linked. Domestic confidence is affected by the Eurozone crisis. If there is no confidence in Europe then there is no consumer confidence in Britain to spend and invest and so the economy shrinks. America doesn’t rely on the world as much for its growth as it is very internal led so it is no surprise it continues to grow. Until consumer confidence returns and the Eurozone crisis is resolved things in Britain won’t improve unless we can clearly cut ourselves off from Europe and the crisis.

    Like

    • 37

      Also it has been spending like a drunken Ed Balls who’s just been released after 3 years from a no-spending clinic.

      Almost 4 years of splurging. Twenty years worth of future tax revenues gone already. Its finally paying off.

      Mind you, even in the UK in 1935, after we had done bugger all to combat the great depression of 1931 things started to get better. So maybe all this spending hasn’t done anything at all.

      Like

      • 194
        Long suffering citizen among many says:

        Britain weathered the ‘Great Depression’ really well….the images you see on the grainy blak and white Newsreels are of the massively unproductive sectors which, together with the American images (where the situation was appalling for years) coloured the popular vision in UK.

        The Socialist propaganda…Jarrow Marches and all that…were atypical as with a stringent and intelligent austerity package by the National Government.
        the malinvestment was quickly liquidated…freeing up the potentially for the biggest private sector house building boom in British History.

        The ‘Great Depression’ was also debt fuelled…but the debts and liabilities were those of the affluent few.

        This time round the indebtedness has penetrated the great mass of society and therefore to pull out of the debt blackhole will be very tough indeed.

        Like

  22. 39
    anonymous says:

    “The barriers to growth are a domestic problem… ”

    dead right

    too few wanting and expecting too much for too little – fuck the rich elites, fuck the bankers , fuck the government and fuck local councils

    Like

  23. 43
    Desperate Dan says:

    The good news is that Ed and the Shadow Cabinet don’t want to earn more than a nurse so they are returning to the taxpayer their salaries, expenses, cost of subsidised meals, profits from taxpayer subsidised second homes and all other perks and freebies they’ve been hoovering up.

    Like

    • 44
      Desperate Dan says:

      Cleggy is very anti greed and dishonesty so he’s going to make sure the LibDems return the stolen money donated to them by Michael Brown the Fraudster.

      Like

  24. 48
    Basil Fawlty says:

    Just because exports are up doesn’t mean the Eurozone crisis isn’t affecting UK GDP. The UK is much closer both geographically and emotionally to the Eurozone than the US. The continual stream of dire news from the Eurozone will negatively impact investment decisions in the UK.
    Also the US didn’t grow at 2.8% last quarter, that was an annualised rate.
    Has Ed Balls taken over this blog?

    Like

  25. 50
    George says:

    Down with VAT I say.

    Like

    • 62
      • 69
        Anonymous says:

        I’m sure Georgie agrees, so you’d better tell him the right time to do it, otherwise he’ll just drift as per usual.

        Like

    • 110
      AC1 says:

      VAT Acts like a 20% tax on the wages of staff (who are the one’s adding value).

      So…

      20% VAT
      13% Employer NI
      Pretend wages
      11% Employee NI
      40% Income Tax
      Pretend after tax wages
      Minus cost of 20% VAT AGAIN!

      So to employ someone using your wages to pay them at the same hourly wage as you takes about 3-4 hours work!

      Since comparative advantage is the only real creator of wealth, you can see the effect this has on the economy.

      Like

      • 118
        Anonymous says:

        I’m an evil landlord letting through an agency, so this 20% is hurting me bad. Little wonder I have to put my fucking rent up.

        Like

        • 149
          George says:

          I’d no idea there was VAT on renting a place… I feel bad for griping about landlords now…

          Like

        • 195
          AC1 says:

          Anonymong,

          I find it hard to believe you’re not already charging the most you can for the rent…

          Ground-rents are a still more proper subject of taxation than the rent of houses. A tax upon ground-rents would not raise the rents of houses. It would fall altogether upon the owner of the ground-rent, who acts always as a monopolist, and exacts the greatest rent which can be got for the use of his ground. More or less can be got for it according as the competitors happen to be richer or poorer, or can afford to gratify their fancy for a particular spot of ground at a greater or smaller expense. In every country the greatest number of rich competitors is in the capital, and it is there accordingly that the highest ground-rents are always to be found. As the wealth of those competitors would in no respect be increased by a tax upon ground-rents, they would not probably be disposed to pay more for the use of the ground. Whether the tax was to be advanced by the inhabitant, or by the owner of the ground, would be of little importance. The more the inhabitant was obliged to pay for the tax, the less he would incline to pay for the ground; so that the final payment of the tax would fall altogether upon the owner of the ground-rent.

          — Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations, Book V, Chapter 2, Article I: Taxes upon the Rent of Houses

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Well unless there’s a cap, how long is a piece of string? I can charge whatever the market rate tolerates. Your rant about ground rents may be true, but is irrelevant to me.

            Like

          • AC1 says:

            Read it again…. Try and understand what its saying…

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            When I first started renting property through an agency, I opted for a management package which incurred vat at the then 17.5% rate. It then went up to 20%, thus incurring more expense for me. How was I to recoup that expense, considering that I was not already charging the top rental rate that was available? Keep it simple, eh AC1?

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Sorry, that should be letting, not renting.

            Like

          • AC1 says:

            Generally rents are already set at the maximum amount.
            So raising a tax on rents* will not actually raise rents (because there’s no-one who’ll pay that much).

            *and inferred rents.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            As I said, I was charging below what I could have got, so I had some lee way.

            Like

        • 199
          ex HMRC says:

          Some items are exempt from VAT, including certain financial services, domestic rent, funeral services and certain types of training and education.

          Housing benefit is the landlords goldmine. (Off record, natch)

          Like

          • The Reaper says:

            No wonder the LibDemmies are having fits.

            Most of ‘em self made millionaires based on Buy to Let scams funded by the oh so generous ‘Bennies’ they vote for, Simples.

            Like

  26. 51
    Eden Lake says:

    If any of you have never seen the film Eden Lake, watch it. It’s a brilliant thriller about a couple who are terrorised by a bunch of underclass chav scum. It was met with outrage by the left wing press who accused it of demonising the working/underclass. It’s a very truthful portrait of a sick and nasty section of society that we’ve all seen ourselves. Top stuff.

    Like

    • 65
      JH says:

      People reflecting what the great NightJack called ‘The darkness at the edge of town‘.

      Little vermin, waiting for the main chance.

      Like

      • 83
        • 130
          JH says:

          Just what the fuck good did they think outing this guy was going to do. If we had a 1000 of him, we could really hurt crime.

          So called dead tree press ‘journalists’ will swallow whatever shit the elites throw them and print it verbatim as ‘news’, but then a superb blogger comes along and tells it like it is.

          Oooh quick, silence him! He embarrasses us! Let’s suddenly remember how to do investigative reporting just as long as it takes to ruin his life and career.

          Scum.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            This isn’t new, remember The Coppers Blog? Poor bloke was outed and eventually emigrated to Canada. Mind you, who’s to say that wasn’t a good thing?

            Like

        • 228
          Magnolia says:

          I’ve only ever bought one copy of The Times since that day and that was to keep the one with the headline cover of DC saying to Europe, ‘Not one penny more’ (June 21 2011). I just knew it would look sick later. I never go to the Times on-line but I do miss Matthew Parris. He’s one of the very few people that gives me any value from my TV licence.

          Like

  27. 52
    Some Geezer wot thinks most people don't know shit from beans about economics says:

    This is what is called the Paradox of Thrift– if I decide (or am forced by circumstances) not to spend money on a consumer good or service but rather to pay off my debts and/or deposit it in the Royal Bank of Mattress, the economy suffers as a result; the manufacturers/wholesalers/retailers/service providers see their incomes go down as a result. The knock-on effect is that these entrepreneurs will downscale operations if they cannot sell their product/service and will need to reduce prices in the hope of attracting business, if they can afford to do so. (It’s to be hoped that the reduction in cost to the ultimate consumer will prompt some cash-on-the-barrelhead transactions to occur to sop up some of the “mattress money” out there, but that can’t be counted on.) So basically, if people ain’t buyin’ what it is you’re sellin’, you ain’t gonna make more of it, hence GDP goes down, QED. John Maynard Keynes is responsible for the whole idea that the economy taking an occasional deep breath is per se a bad thing, seeing as how his theories rely on the State to provide spending dosh to the public to make for continued demand and hence continued supply. Of course, the piper is paid by the fact that since money provided that way must come from somewhere, it comes from you and me in the form of taxes, which means that the State is the converse of J. Wellington Wimpy, who pays you Tuesday for a hamburger today, by taking YOUR money Tuesday for the hamburger they’re providing today, which also takes money out of circulation if not recycled again and again…you get the point, yeah? (Of course, they’re taking your money today as well, for all the hamburgers they’ve been handing out all along!)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_thrift

    Like

    • 72
      Our Denry says:

      I agree with a lot you say, it is thought that most of the consumer goods sold in the UK are made abroad, so by your logic, as demand declines the countries where our consumer goods are made will start to lay off their workers, they could then start to stop lending to the UK and even demanding repayment of our debts, not a lot of countries in Europe or the USA could not even start to to repay the money lent to them.

      Like

    • 121
      AC1 says:

      That’s called deflation, and there isn’t any deflation.

      Like

  28. 55
    Milton Friedman says:

    The big problem is still the public sector. It was expanded to an entirely unsustainable size under Labour and the necessary cuts so far announced by the coalition are insufficient, especially with regards to Local Government. Local Government is still massively overmanned and overpaid, evidenced that council tax doubled under Labour in a stable inflationary environment. The taxpayer is being hugely ripped off by inefficient, incompetent and corrupt Local Government and this coalition needs to get a grip on this outrage now.

    Like

    • 73

      Nazi Germany expanded its arms industry from 0% to the world’s largest in the 1930′s.

      problem was, what to do with all those tanks. They all need training grounds, maintenance parks, crews, technicians, ammo, oil, fuel, parts etc. Aircraft need airfields. Navy needed ports. Soldiers needed barracks. All needed to be paid. All needed a management structure to run them.

      And then, in order to still have the ‘best armed services’ in the world, it had to keep expanding them, and paying for them.
      Civilian demand was non existent. All production was diverted to arms or exports, to buy more materials for arms.

      by 1939 Hitler had the largest and best armed forces in the world an he could no longer pay for them. Everyone was in the military, supplying the military, servicing the military or feeding the military. Private wealth was used to fund the military. The government was using Mefo bonds, a sort of early PFI scheme to fund 45% extra off balance sheet spending on the military, just to keep it in being.

      And every day it was getting more obsolete. Each week something needed replacing or rebuilding. And the costs of the materials had kept going up as the government spent ever more on getting the scarce resources for them.

      It was war or bust for Adolph.

      Not that this has any relevance to the public sector. None at all.

      Like

      • 84
        Mad, Bad & Dangerous Gordon McRuin ( Member in absentia ) says:

        I created British jobs for British workers !! Ed and I gave the Country full employment and trapped the inactive Liebour voters on benefits generated by my stealth taxes. I abolished Boom and Bust. Everything was going brilliantly until someone ( in America ) screamed out, “Sub Prime Debt ! “

        Like

      • 206
        Its the economy, stupid says:

        And then had to go to war to avoid the financial day of reckoning.

        He had boosted the economy on steroids of pure Keynes but by 1938/39 needed to expand beyond his frontiers, suck in labour, take over productive assets eg Skoda to keep his debt fuelled show on the road….otherwise what has happened to us would assuredly have happened to him

        His generals said to wait to 1943 but the treasury stats were telling him that that might be a touch to long to wait.

        He was evil but a great fan of Keynes.

        Like

    • 124
      AC1 says:

      The thing is there’s next to no demand for most of the stuff from the “public sector” at the price they charge.

      Weirdly the main “product” the public sector creates (secure land rights) isn’t even charged for (i.e. it’s subsidised)….

      My own feeling is the “welfare” state is there as a smokescreen for the people who are really ripping us off.

      Like

      • 242
        Ed Balls says:

        Mass immigration = more jobs for public sector workers.
        More houses for the immigrants = more jobs for public sector workers.
        More immigrants and more public sector workers = more votes for Labour.
        More property development encouraged by the public sector = more funds for the public sector and more political donations from the developers = more jobs for public sector workers.

        Now you know how it works. If we had won the last election, we would have been in power for ever.

        Like

        • 243
          Eric Pickles says:

          I have been aware of what has been going on, but am too cowardly to do anything about it, particularly Local Government.

          Like

        • 270
          AC1 says:

          MAss imigration =>
          More competition for wages
          +
          More competition for Houses
          =
          Lower Wages and Higher rents! Great news for those who make their money owning land.

          Like

  29. 61
    Drop a Daisy cutter on the BBC says:

    We should just ignore our national debt, does anyone think America will ever pay back ANY of the 15 trillion it owes? or us pay back any of our 1.5 trillion?

    It’s a joke, most of the debt is owned by ourselves anyway in what remains of our pension funds.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that we should just borrow a few hundred billion more and spend it, we’re not going to be any worse off now.

    It’s the economics of madness but that’s all there is.

    Like

    • 126
      AC1 says:

      So you think that everyone with any money should also get that removed?

      Like

      • 140
        mattress stuffer says:

        They’re doing quite a good job of it as it is, thank you very much.

        Like

        • 143
          AC1 says:

          Better to stuff that Mattress with silver and farmland.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Funny you should say that, I had a soft pitch from a lad the other day who implied that if I buy the land he’d buy and sell livestock, overall share to be discussed.

            Like

      • 169
        Drop a Daisy cutter on the BBC says:

        No I’m just saying that we’re never going to pay that debt off and the deficit is not going away and no one seems to really care. So let’s spend spend spend, what is going to happen? Pension funds come in with bailiffs and take away our schools and hospitals?

        The Countries out there who are being prudent are paying the same for petrol and energy as we are. They are also getting screwed on the markets, fuck it let’s just spend.

        Like

        • 211
          Lucifer says:

          Oh, bugger it.

          Lets default now. I’ve bought my gold and the spare room is full of baked beans and ladies hosiery in various shades and deniers…might be useful when the bartering begins…few legovers, too, as a bonus, with any luck.

          Like

  30. 64
    Gordon Brown says:

    I love polishing my helmet to a high gloss finish.

    Like

  31. 67
    Never had it so bad says:

    Quick couple of questions – were there economic crises before Gordon Brown and Ed Balls? Were there economic crises before Keynes?

    My grandad tells me life pre1930s was a time of unparalleled growth and prosperity for all.

    Please tell me he wasn’t telling porkie pies.

    Like

    • 69
      Ed Balls - Shallow Chancer says:

      ANSWERS: Just look for Labour governments – they always precede economic calamity.

      Like

      • 76
        Never had it so bad says:

        Gramps said that too! He blamed Atlee and his advisers not just for the Great Depression but the long depression before that!

        Like

    • 175
      The Reaper says:

      Your Grandad wasn’t telling porkies, he was right.

      Just look at all the housing that went up in the Thirties. You can still see it all around us and the new industries that boomed in the Midlands and South East.

      Britain was a great place to be in the Thirties as long as you weren’t mining coal.

      Plus it was an extremely green and pleasant land then, as some of us can just remember.

      Like

      • 217
        Lucifer says:

        Flying Scotsman and Imperial Airways Flying boats and lots of optimistic art deco.

        And the first break out of white goods and mass home ownership for a 50 quid deposit and a marriage licence shown to your building society manager.

        Until Adolf came along and wrecked it all forcing a new round of debt for national survival which plagued us until the 1980s.

        Like

      • 343
        JH says:

        I have lived most of my life in thirties built houses, lovely practical places. We have not built anything superior since. They are cheap to run too, providing you have modern windows. Don’t listen to the energy rating ‘C/D’ category crap.

        It’s a bit like how the lefties try to tell us how ‘terrible’ the 80′s were. Oh yeah, a decade that saw most homes get tvs, telephones and computers for the first time, and money for those willing to earn it.

        You can see how that would seem awful to lefties. It was only a ‘bad’ time if you were/are a unionite leftist waster, who to this day has to seethingly deny the fact that your boys took one hell of a beating!

        Like

        • 347
          Tick, toc, tick, toc.... says:

          Who’s picture of the 30s is politically instrumentalised by the Left?

          Traditionally, the Interwar period has been seen as a “slump,” a period when the number of unemployed Britons never dropped below two million. Yet despite this fact, should the period be termed a slump? This is the question around which all three books discussed in this paper revolve.

          Noreen Branson (Communist) and Margot Heineman (Marxist), in their “Britain in the 1930s”, offers a traditional account of great suffering and deprivation, arguing that the Great War caused a large amount of social and economic dislocation that resulted in the Interwar slump.

          Sidney Pollard disagrees that there even was a slump, and argues, though using various economic statistics, that despite the large numbers of unemployed workers, the standard of living of the vast majority of British people greatly increased during this time period.

          John Stevenson and Chris Cook likewise argue that the Slump as been exaggerated and note that in many ways, the 1920s and 1930s represented the beginning of what would become known later in post-WWII Britain as the “affluent society.”

          Like

  32. 75
    Mornington Crescent says:

    Talking of the Eurozone, “Europe’s Choice” on R4 this lunchtime was compelling listening. What an utter mess Europe’s then leaders made of it, in defiance of all economic logic. Well worth a listen.

    Like

  33. 78
    Romanian Big Issue seller in Bristol. says:

    It iz very ard verk dis zellin beeg ishoo. I iz not maykin mooch moony. I by 20 beeg ishoo an zen zell em 4 mor. Zare iz no mooch profeet for mee. sumtyme I only mayk 67p a day. I eez mooch appy now, I get £26000 alzo sum moor.
    I teel mi zisters an now zey cum 2 bee beeg ishoo peepol. vee vil all mayke nice mooltycullchural coontri. fanku goredoon bwrown.

    Like

    • 245
      Handycock No1 Trougher in Parliament says:

      Come to Portsmouth. My ‘boys’ will house you; then you can bring all your family members over and they can bring their’s. The Council will pay you all the benefits you need and for all this, all you need to do, is vote for me. Boaz.

      Like

  34. 80
    JJ says:

    IDS.
    Did the years of being knifed in the back by his own friends and colleagues tip him over the edge?

    Is he still bitter over his leadership experience where most of the country opnely mocked him, so he now wants revenge on the population?

    What kind of man would punish women and children by CHARGING them for collecting the money they are rightly due from their absent fathers?

    Anybody else a little uncomfortable having such an unhinged individual in cabinent? I think ATOS should assess him before he is allowed to continue in his job

    Like

    • 85
      Anonymous says:

      Fuck off, we’re sick to death of keeping these freeloaders afloat. And before you start bleating about starving children, perhaps you’d lie to tell us why child obesity is a growing problem in the UK? Twat.

      Like

    • 93
      Dougie says:

      It’s tough on single mothers (or fathers) when the absent parent won’t pay but why should the taxpayer pick up the bill for running the CSA? Couples get together and have children of their own volition. If it all goes pear-shaped they must take responsibility for sorting it out.

      Like

    • 132
      The Paragnostic says:

      It’s a hundred quid for most and only 50 quid for the doleites.

      So it might put off frivolous applicants, who don’t even know which one of about 5 or 6 the father is.

      Seems good to me.

      Like

    • 182
      The Reaper says:

      Obviously you’d like revenge half the popluation that work for less than the average wage in order to keep the do-nothings, many of whom have contributed nothing, on far more than the average wage.

      This is truly the sign of a sick society, with many sick apologists for it.

      Like

  35. 87
    Dougie says:

    Oh dear, Guido!
    If you look at the graph carefully, you will see it shows trade in goods only. You’ll need to add trade in services to get the full picture.
    Or perhaps that wouldn’t fit with your pre-determined view of Osborne?

    Like

  36. 88
    Ah! Monika says:

    I worked in the private sector for 40 years. As a self appointed hatchet man I found that in all of the 40 units I managed I could reduce staffing by 50% over a 2 year period and increase productivity. Every time In did so there were cries of ” we won’t be able to manage ” which given time fell silent. I never once came across a manager who told me he was overstaffed.

    And that was in the private sector. God knows what could be achieved in the public sector.

    Like

    • 91
      Ah! Monika says:

      Meant to finish off by saying “Carry on ” to Stephen Hester and his like

      Like

    • 96
      I don't need no doctor says:

      Go look in most hospitals if you want to see over staffing in action. The busiest place is the staff restroom. So much bullshit from the union leaders and pilgrims, justifying their own existance by their own agenda. Patients are not the priority!

      Like

      • 107
        Ah! Monika says:

        Unfortunately I have had to visit various hospitals with my son every week for the past 5 years. The average walking pace is about 1mph ( and that’s in an emergency ).

        If all the NHS fatties were laid on top of one another…….
        Over 2 U

        Like

        • 109
          Ah! Monika says:

          In one small unit we observed ( over a 2 year period ) one ” Cleaner ” spending he whole shift making greetings cards to sell to the other staff. I suspect she’s still doing it.

          Like

        • 114
          I don't need no doctor says:

          I visted hospital the other day as an outpatient. The service was excellent but I was struck by the number of staff. Several in reception just talking to each other, and many more in the staff restroom, although mine was the first afternoon appointment. The same is witnessed every time I visit. It’s so obvious that the department is overstaffed.

          Like

          • AC1 says:

            It’s like patients are a cost to be minimised rather than valuable customers.

            Oh….

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            I work for the NHS, and patients are just a fucking nuisance tbh.

            Like

          • Jabba the Cat says:

            “I work for the NHS, and patients are just a fucking nuisance tbh.”

            I’m a taxpayer who would greatly enjoy sticking a full length pencil in your ear…

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            I only work here ‘cos about 10% of the nurses are really fit, and not fat fucking mingers, so get out of my face you mangy mog.

            Like

    • 152
      Some Geezer wot knows a million corny jokes says:

      This joke supposedly was inspired by an actual event:

      A large corporation that had recently put on more workers in an expansion found they were losing track of how many people were being added to payroll. They resorted to the simple expedient of calling around to all the departments to do a census. In one department, one assistant manager was asked:

      “How many people are actually working in your department?”

      To which he replied:

      “I would say maybe about 40-50% of them, tops…”

      Like

  37. 89
    I don't need no doctor says:

    Why do I get the urge to smack Liam Byrne in the face every time he appears on television?

    Like

  38. 90
    I don't need no doctor says:

    Why do I get the urge to smack Liam Byrne in the face evey time he ap pe ars on television?

    Like

  39. 92
    A real socialist says:

    Keynesian economics and the welfare state PROTECT capitalism.

    Bring on real caputalism. It contains the seeds of it own destruction.

    No to meddling Keynesians!

    Like

    • 105
      stalin, mao tse tung, pol pot, robert mugabe and countless other african dictators says:

      Haha, like socialism has ever fucking worked you wanker.

      Like

      • 117
        A real socialist says:

        Snigger…those guys were delusional indeed!

        Capitalism is an essential stage of socialist development. You can’t get to C without passing through A and B!

        Like

        • 193
          Kim Jong Stiff says:

          Yeah, I assume C stands for the usual socialist crap. I assume you’re one of those twatty dildos who still think that true socialism hasn’t really been tried? So what happened the first one hundred tries FFS, you plank? You know what Benjamin Franklin’s definition of insanity was? “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I think after a century of disaster after fucking disaster we can safely put socialists into that category.

          Like

          • A real socialista says:

            There are socialist aspects to every society, not least in the way resources are allocated amongst kin groups in even the most ‘capitalist’ societies.

            I’m with the Right on how to run our economy. The state should keep its beak out and let capitalism in all its glory lead to innovation, overproduction, alienation and revolution!

            The welfare state and Keynsian economics are an impediment to progress.

            Like

          • the freedom to fail says:

            Well I don’t know how you jump from innovation and overproduction, ie abundance for all, to alienation and revolution, but there you go, each to his own.

            Like

          • Marx suffered from piles says:

            God, you must be a barrel of laughs at parties.

            Capitalism doesn’t fail unless it is interfered with by governments and monopolists distorting market mechanisms.

            Socialism is a theory ..a religion without a God. Paradise is just around the corner…one more push…..into dictatorship. If it doesn’t work…saboteurs, counter revolutionary agents….the theory is soooo cool that it will be obvious to one and all. If they don’t agree, a little bit of persuasion, comrade.Eh what.

            Socialism is bollox.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Freedom to fail – the flaw in your answer are the words ‘for all’. It never leads to abundance to all (and that’s not a moral view, it’s an empirical view).

            Marx suffered from piles – all the greatest parties discuss the capitalist means of production ;)

            Like

          • the freedom to fail says:

            That’s why I posted under, ‘freedom to fail’ you dimwit. People must have the freedom to fail and learn from their failure, any other model crushes the human spirit. The USA with it’s extremes of rich and poor is a supreme example of this model. Give me the American Dream anytime rather than the grim, socialist granny state ‘we know best’ bollocks.

            Like

          • All it requires is some get up and go says:

            Are you Alan Sugar in disguise?

            Like

          • the freedom to fail says:

            Er, no, that’s not what I’m saying you thick cuпt. You only learn from experience, and you only get that experience through failing now and again. What chance for those poor fuckers who have been on benefits all their lives, and been cushioned from the experiences that may have helped to lift themselves out of relative poverty?

            Like

          • All it requires is some get up and go says:

            What makes you think I support benefits? Benefits are about keeping people in their place – better to have them begging than striking!

            I think you should take your ‘freedom to fail’ schtick on tour…it’ll go down a treat in Bogota, Calcutta or Ipoh.

            Like

          • Tick, toc, tick, toc.... says:

            Everything around you….hospitals, life expectancy, full supermarket shelfs and a standard of living of even the ‘poorest’ is the product of capitalism.

            Everything is the product of capitalism.

            Socialism produces nothing. Zero. Zilch.

            But some folks think they know better than allowing freedom of choice for millions.

            Some clapped out Hegelian pseudo-science reinterpreted by a dyspeptic German intellectual in love with his oh so clever dialectics and dependent on capitalist profit provided by factory owner Engels to feed his kids, is the ‘truth’ . A scientific law that cannot be applied without bringing misery to millions as has been amply demonstrated within living memory

            Socialism is evidence of poverty of the spirit. Mean envy dressed up as a programme with long words and no credibility.

            Socialism is for wannabe slaves who will pick around at the ruins they create scrambling for less and less. Equality of misery.

            Like

          • AC1 says:

            Socialism should be a synonym for shortage, as that’s what it’s actions always create.

            Those who confuse extortion with sharing will forever doom their countries to starvation.

            Like

          • AC1 says:

            There’s an old name for those who assume they own other people, and are entitled to other peoples works.

            Slavers.

            Like

          • Capitalism brings you bargains says:

            Get all yer cheap tiles down at BnQ today…

            http://tinyurl.com/7mzysq6

            Like

          • the freedom to fail says:

            “I think you should take your ‘freedom to fail’ schtick on tour…it’ll go down a treat in Bogota, Calcutta or Ipoh. (sic)”

            You really have no respect do you? Who are you to judge these people and their world view?

            Like

          • Freedom to wail says:

            Send em some Hayek!

            Like

          • the freedom to fail says:

            You obviously still believe in a socialist heaven on earth, what a dick. You’ll learn when you grow up.

            Like

    • 111
      Joss Taskin says:

      Was ist Caputalism ?

      Like

  40. 95
    Ah! Monika says:

    FT reports:- Merkel to join Sarkozy in French campaigning.

    Remember when one countries Politicos would steer clear of supporting either side in elections?

    Like

  41. 99
    An individual says:

    About time we started looking at IDP ( individual domestic product )

    ie GDP/ no. of FTE employees = how much each working person is contributing to the GDP.

    ……or do we already have this statistic

    Like

  42. 102
    I don't need no doctor says:

    Ed Miliband claims the coalition hired Hester and gave him a legally binding contract guaranteeing a bonus. Miliband went on to deny labour bailed out RBS.

    Like

  43. 106
    Steve Lloyd says:

    Found this which just about sums it up.

    When Brown/ Balls took up the reigns of fiscal authority (for 1998) annual GDP stood at £830.9 billion and annual National Debt was increased by £4.9 billion.

    When Brown/ Balls left (2010) annual GDP stood at £1453.6 billion – up x1.75 times – and annual National Debt increased by £142.6 billion – up x29 times.
    In the years 2008/9 (£91 billion), 2009/10 (£142.6 billion) and 2010/11 (£149.7 billion) Brown/ Balls’ added £384 billion pounds to an existing £525 billion TOTAL – that’s 73% – in an effort to buy another election.

    Spin it which ever way you want – these people are reckless.
    £ billion/GDP PND PND Annual
    1997 830.09 348.00
    1998 879.10 352.90 4.90
    1999 928.73 351.60 -1.30
    2000 976.53 345.40 -6.20
    2001 1021.83 312.40 -33.00
    2002 1075.56 315.50 3.10
    2003 1139.75 347.10 31.60
    2004 1202.96 382.80 35.70
    2005 1254.06 424.00 41.20
    2006 1325.80 463.00 39.00
    2007 1398.88 500.00 37.00
    2008 1448.39 525.00 25.00
    2009 1395.87 616.90 91.90
    2010 1453.62 759.50 142.60
    2011 1526.50 909.20 149.70

    Like

  44. 108
    It's not rocket science says:

    When I voted Conservative I voted small government and lower taxes……..put some money back into people’s pockets you @rsholes….I thought “Nanny knows best” came that bunch of socialists who brought the country to it’s knees. If people start getting another 2or 3 hundred quid in their pay packet each month the knock-on effect will get things moving. Where are the Conservatives and who the fcuk is Dave, eh?

    Like

    • 196
      The Reaper says:

      Trouble is we voted Conservative, and we got Dave.

      No one speaks the truth, there is no sensible debate on our economic plight.

      The Bishops, LibDems, and the Socialshites are all mad or bad.

      The BBC is stuffed with lunatics of a soft stalinist persuasion.

      Experts are wheeled out like W*ll H*tt*n to explain that the way out of our debt problem is to borrow and waste more.

      The local councils are busy wasting our money putting up lights and loony signs wherever they can find space.

      The NHS is full of staff that are more interested in discussing Eastenders than caring for patients.

      The Jocks don’t like us ’cause we only provide free Health Care, Prescriptions, Edcucation etc for them and not for ourselves.

      We knew we were in for trouble when Dave said how satisfied he was with the way things were, but it turned out worse than we imagined, and now to rub salt into our wounds he is riding a wave of popularity.

      The world is not in good shape right now.

      Like

  45. 112
    SAS says:

    Simple motto for Osborne ” Who Dares Wins “

    Like

  46. 131
    Ah! Monika says:

    (Reuters) – Greece must surrender control of its budget policy to outside institutions if it cannot implement reforms attached to euro zone rescue measures, the German economy minister was quoted as saying on Sunday.

    Like

  47. 141
    I'm barred from commenting but here is a message for any casual passer-by says:

    All the above and everything below has been written by the same person. I find that mildly impressive and not at all sad.
    Good times we’ve weathered and bad times we’ve shared. I could compose a limerick but I can’t be arsed. Thanks for having me these past three and more years and sorry for being such a pain at times.

    *Has fingers crossed* Laters.

    Like

    • 145
      Anonymous says:

      Stick to the cider Ewanmе, it’s way better for you than blogging IMHO, and may even lead to an early release from this wicked world, wot don’t appreciate their genuine mingers an shit.

      Like

      • 150
        I'm barred from commenting but here is a message for any casual passer-by says:

        How did you type that word without getting ‘the treatment’ then? Good advice, though – all the internet has done for me is stunt my imagination and make me depressed. Colourless droning may pay people’s bills but is, literally, soul-destroying for those of us that accidentally on purpose read it.

        Like

        • 157
          Anonymous says:

          To be fair, it was the, ‘will they, won’t they’ sexual tension between Hair Bear and Βillу Βumden that was bringing me back for more, but even that has transferred to twatterland now.

          Like

          • I'm barred from commenting but here is a message for any casual passer-by says:

            Yes, shit passes eventually. Their relationship was deep and riveting although nothing in comparison with my keyboard-melting on-screen antics at the DT with my MAN ON WATERLOO BRIDGE circa 08/09.
            We practically mangled each other’s naughty bits with our words until, unfortunately, he got banned from there.

            Like

          • A palsied flagellant says:

            Oh Ew, say it ain’t so.

            Like

    • 174
      thick as thieves says:

      Shut up and stop projecting your own crimes onto others you daft bitter tart.

      Like

  48. 147
    Fabians are Evil says:

    It is all very simple – the economy has moved to more of a needs based economy.

    With access to cheap borrowed money being restricted people are buying less ‘wants’ and are, instead paying down debt and restricting their spending to the essentials of life.

    This is all very sensible

    Like

    • 148
      confused of withenshawe says:

      Er, so we’re not in deep do do then?

      Like

    • 167
      South of the M4 says:

      My economy has always been ‘ if I can’t afford it i won’t have it’ . This moved under Brown to ‘ I definitely can’t afford it, i won’t have it and I’ll make sacrifices ‘ . Now, its ‘ I certainly can’t afford it, I won’t have it, I have run out of sacrifices that I can make
      and pretty soon I will not be able to afford to live ‘. I guess that’s progress………

      Like

    • 225
      Rip van Wrinkle says:

      Where are these people paying down debt? I was told yesterday that the average Joe has 50% more unsecured debt on 1 January 2012 than he had on 1 January 2011.

      And the banks? More leveraged than ever.

      And the Government? To all intents and purposes, bankrupt and borrowing another 10% of GDP every year as far as the eye can see

      Please, do your own homework. We de-leverage, we die.

      Like

      • 283
        AC1 says:

        I must be the only fucker in Credit, with the only business in credit…

        and with the inflation lies, what a fool I am.

        Like

  49. 153
    Zings are go from vorse to bad says:

    Aleksandr: “Sergei, why you tink Labour comrades is not happy with own contrakt with RBS apparatchik Hesterovich in Palace of Commons?”

    Sergei: “Ehh?! Perhaps is new leadermabob”?

    Aleksandr: “Seemples”!

    Like

  50. 155
    Ed Balls - Shallow Chancer says:

    Antiques Roadshow !!!! BOOHOOHOOHOOHOOO !!!

    Like

  51. 160
    Ah! Monika says:

    Breaking:
    Hester to be stripped of his bonus

    Like

    • 162
      Mad, Bad & Dangerous Gordon McRuin ( Member in absentia ) says:

      I employed him ! ONLY I can change his Terms & Conditions !

      Like

    • 165
      Derek Smalls says:

      On a practical note: I thought he had to give it back voluntarily, guys?

      Like

    • 168
      They're all the same says:

      Merkozy goosestepping all over the eu and all the stupid socialists in the hoc can witter on about is a contract of employment they should have had stitched up when he was bribed to sign in the first instant a couple of years ago-pathetic twats

      Like

  52. 161
    Diane Abutt says:

    When’s the next time I can get on the telly and give my usual incisive political commentary?

    Like

  53. 176
    Diane Fatbott says:

    Can someone call me a black Hackney Cab ?

    Like

  54. 179
    annette curton says:

    BBC Bee in bonnet, but under no circumstances will we make any reference’s to Fred the Shred a knighthood and £70 million quid, thank you very much and goodbye!.
    PS, no he is not giving back his private tropical island and his Harem.

    Like

    • 198
      nellnewman says:

      Does he have a harem?

      Perhaps he should invite gordy over there and get him to relax a bit as he needs to escape from sarah’s intense ‘ children need educating’ campaign.

      Like

      • 209
        annette curton says:

        It consists of some dozen superannuated ex RBS p/a and secretarial totty, but I cannot name names (super injunction), in fact I am already in breech (super super injunction).

        Like

    • 216
      Desperate Dan says:

      And the BBC won’t mention that their execs, presenters and pisspoor celebs are all being paid more than Stephen Hester.

      Like

  55. 188
    Bloke says:

    There’s no growth because the socialist cnuts in charge steal all the dough and hand it out to feckless fucking spongers, after filling their own trousers first of course.

    Like

    • 200
      nellnewman says:

      There’s no growth because labour spent so fast and recklessly and dug such a deep hole for the economy it hasn’t yet been able to dig itself out towards daylight.

      Like

    • 218
      SME SME SMEEEEEEEEEEE says:

      Totally agree. The only guys I know whose businesses have grown in the last year or two have moved into the black economy. We need to slash VAT in order to make it reasonable for people to want to involve themselves in it at all.

      Like

      • 240
        Symptom of socialism says:

        Correct.

        10 to 15% is in the black economy which only exists because as a direct result of government sucking in 50% of the economy and peeing it against the wall of malinvestment.

        PS In Italy its 22% and Greece 30%.

        All of this is the result of Eurosocialism and is just like the black market behind the Iron Curtain.

        The black market exists for the same reason in both places.

        Oh, blaxk markets only work because things that people really want are bought and sold at prices people are prepared to pay by choice without the distortion of the state monopolist.

        Like

        • 258
          satan says:

          I’m seriously thinking of getting a white van, that’s how bad it is. I’m fucking sick of rewarding the failure of politicians and their lazy, good for nothing clientele.

          Like

        • 280
          AC1 says:

          A rough guide…

          “Black”* economy = Unemployment rate.

          *I prefer the term Freed economy.

          Like

          • Tick, toc, tick, toc.... says:

            Agreed. Found one by accident in the National Museum in Prague in 1980. I followed some people through a door…into an Aladdin’s Cave of eatable goodies. Presumed the authorities ‘tolerated’ it. It was all a Potemkin Economy outside but in there it was all on display.You could get all the cuban oranges you wanted while the state shops were fully staffed with empty shelves.

            Bought an orange and went into the Egyptian gallery.

            Like

  56. 208
    Only flaw is that Brosnan is a human being, Blood Money Blair isn't says:

    Tony Blair’s life story, The Ghost, on channel 4 tonight.

    Like

  57. 210
    Harry Hill says:

    I hate Tony Blair. But then I also hate Gordon Brown. But which one is worse? There’s only one way to find out: FIGHT!

    Like

  58. 212
    Desperate Dan says:

    Good news. Miliband and Balls are going to sell their houses and forego their salaries and donate the proceeds to the treasury. They admit that they misused the nation’s assets and left the country bankrupt. They admit that Gordon Brown made a mistake when he appointed them as Treasury Ministers when they knew nothing about how to do the job. They promise to make the rest of the Labour Party, everyone who’s earning more than a nurse, sell their houses and donate the proceeds and their salaries to the taxpayers whose money they lost through their incompetence and banking irrregulation.

    Like

  59. 215
    As the Crowe flies says:

    We had a public sector strike in the last quarter where millions of work hours were lost.

    Labours military wing the Unions ensuring this country remains fucked

    Like

    • 220
      Desperate Dan says:

      The retail trade did very well out of the strikes and the taxpayer had a day off from having to pay all those diversity officers. It wasn’t all bad.

      Like

    • 221
      Xxxxxxxx says:

      I barely noticed it. What happened? Someone cancelled a talk on diversity and parking meters?

      Like

    • 246
      Eeyore says:

      Would be of great benefit to the economy if they were to embark on weeks of strikes. Since their net value to the community is negative, it must be a positive contribution when they stop doing it.

      Like

  60. 232
    • 238
      Alyingstare Campbell says:

      Never heard of The Sun.

      Like

    • 247
      Eeyore says:

      Certainly big in the Grauniad.

      Like

    • 276
      AC1 says:

      Good job the Grauniad hasn’t used any phone crackers etc….

      Oops. The whole thing’s a political hatchet job on Murdoch. I wonder what he’s done to step out of line with the real ruling classes.

      Like

    • 300

      The silly lefties don’t really get it.

      Do they genuinely believe that if Murdoch’s empire collapses into a heap the white van man will start reading the arts section of The Grauniad or the human rights supplement of the Indepressant.

      Another mogul will come along offering tits, celebs, health scares, lottery winners and football.
      Same shit, different day.

      Like

  61. 239
    The Reaper says:

    Anyone know why government bonds are being snapped up which provide a negative yield.

    I mean who would invest money to get a lower return than just sitting on it.

    Is it governments or quangos spurging the cash away ’cause they don’t mind wasting other peoples’ money, or is it because they’re printing money at one end and buying useless bonds at the other, or what ?

    Or has the world just gone mad ?

    Like

    • 241
      Tick, toc, tick, toc.... says:

      Abject, craven fear.

      Like

      • 262
        Some Lords Spiritual says:

        Didn’t banks in Switzerland start offering a negative interest rate to their overnight depositors a few weeks back?

        Like

    • 275
      AC1 says:

      Probably banks being told to increase reserves and the government declaring that gilts are counted as reserves.

      i.e. your bank account is buying the negative yields.

      Like

  62. 251
    With friends like him... says:

    Labour MP David Lammy says Labour’s smacking law partly caused last year’s riots. Nice of him to provide Cameron with ammunition for PMQs.

    Like

  63. 253
    Saffron says:

    If you want to read drivel, what better than to read what anonnymong writes.
    I have seldom read such inane crap for a long time,jack of all trades and king of none.
    Please feck off and do most of us a favour,we don’t need your kind of ill informed rubbish.

    Like

  64. 254
    The Totnes Monster says:

    So, what were Fox and Wherrity up to?

    Like

    • 285
      annette curton says:

      Said Badger gruffly, I think its high time we paid Toad Hall a visit my dear Ratty and you must come too Mole, this state of affairs cannot continue.

      Like

  65. 265
    Alex says:

    Of course there is no growth. The government has to cut borrowing and to do that it has to cut spending so there is less cash in everybody’s pockets.

    Unavoidable because a lot of prior year’s GDP was paid for by borrowing. If there hadn’t been so much borrowing last year’s (and the year before’s) GDP would have been much lower. GDP is simply reverting to where it would have been without all the borrowing.

    Like

  66. 274
    Shut the Chuck up says:

    Chucky is on Sky News commenting on Stephen Hester’s decision to waive his bonus. It sticks in the gut to hear him talk about “ordinary people” and salaries when the twat owns £1500 designer suits.

    Like

    • 280
      Drop a Daisy cutter on the BBC says:

      I hope Hester walks, let RBS go down the shitter and hand it back to Scotland with a message of “love from England you jock c u n t z ” written on the front doors.

      Like

    • 291
      Tessa Tickles says:

      Don’t forget the wanker’s million-pound house, ‘owned’ by a company based in an offshore tax haven.

      “Taxes are for little people”.

      Like

  67. 278
    Drop a Daisy cutter on the BBC says:

    So the BBC have managed to get Stephen Hester to not take his bonus, trebles all round the BBC tonight (plus lots of cocaine), but what happens if Hester now walks?

    Who will run RBS? We need an economic genius, the BBC know of one of course, it’s Saint one eyed c u n t of Fife.

    Hester will be mad to stay on, whatever you think of bankers this guy was brought in by the mong from Fife to run a FAILING SCOTTISH BANK, why should he and him family now get this level of abuse from the lefty media when the c u n t should should be getting the abuse is missing in action?

    Why has no one in the media tracked fuckwit Brown down and asked or demanded WHY he’s not saying sorry to Hester who was employed on a fraudulent basis?

    Like

    • 305
      Tessa Tickles says:

      An Englishman, a Scotsman and a Pakistani turn up at hospital to collect their newborn sons. The hospital informs them that there has been a mix up and they do not know whose baby is whose. The men decide to sort this out between themselves. The Englishman chooses first and picks the baby who clearly belongs to the Pakistani. The Pakistani says to the Englishman, ‘excuse me, that’s my baby!’ The Englishman replies, ‘I know that, but one of those white ones is Scottish, and I’m not taking any chances’.

      Like

  68. 287
    Shut the Chuck up says:

    This is Labour morality: in power they do dodgy deals with dodgy people like the Mittals, they knight Fred the Shred for services to banking, they say they’re very relaxed about people becoming filthy rich, and they put in place the arrangements for Stephen Hester’s bonus; in opposition, they attack the private sector as predators, they blame the Tories for Fred Goodwin, they say they care about the poor whilst secretly dining with the chairman of loansharks Wonga.com and not declaring it, and they bully Stephen Hester into waiving his bonus which they set up.

    When it comes to barefaced evil, Charles Manson has nothing on this lot.

    Like

    • 296
      Tessa Tickles says:

      Charles Manson was indeed a nice person in comparison. Labour murdered about 160,000 people in Iraq, Manson killed.. about ten, in total. 11 if you count the unborn baby.

      AND, Manson had a true vision for the future. Admittedly, it involved living in a bottomless pit, eating from a chocolate fountain and dancing day and night with John, Paul, George and Ringo but, compared to Labour, Manson seems almost normal and level-headed.

      Perhaps when they get round to ditching Milipede, Labour should give Charlie a call.

      Like

    • 301
      Drop a Daisy cutter on the BBC says:

      Well the Tories are fucking useless, the BBC/Guardian/Labour alliance have been making hay with this.

      Like

      • 311
        Anon says:

        The Tories a re fucking useless because the BBC and Guardian *still exist*, after 18 months.

        Scrap the license fee and force the BBC to compete with its commercial rivals on an even playing field, and stop advertising civil service non-jobs in the Grudian.

        Result: Beeb goes bust, Gruadian goes bust. The Left loses its taxpayer-funded propaganda wing.

        Camoron had five years to plan this, but the thick twat preferred to hug hoodies ‘n’ huskies.

        Like

  69. 293
    Gordon Brown says:

    I bankrupted the country and I put in place the arrangement for Stephen Hester’s bonus. And now Mr Hester’s been bullied into turning down the bonus I arranged for him, while I continue to collect a salary plus expenses as MP but don’t do any constituency work because I’m always flying round the world getting paid to make speeches. Isn’t life grand?

    Like

  70. 297
    Predator says:

    Action fans. Predator 2 on Channel 4 tonight is a fun escapade. Best bits are with the Jamaican gangsters. “Fucking voodoo magic, maan!”

    Like

    • 304
      annette curton says:

      I will not be watching the unacceptable face of capitalism as I have already been skinned alive by the Labour Government.

      Like

    • 309
      Tessa Tickles says:

      I saw that at the cinema, and not knowing anything about it I spent 30-40 minutes wondering when Arnold Schwarzenegger was going to show up.

      Like

      • 312
        Predator says:

        I remember hearing that was a common thing among audiences. But I actually prefer the sequel. More action and the Jamaican gangsters are very lulzy. “You want some ganja, maan?”

        Like

      • 316
        Predator says:

        Like

        • 332
          albacore says:

          Not a patch on the original.
          Gonna tell Aunt Maggie about numpty Dave
          He says that he’s a Tory but he’s just an E U slave

          Like

  71. 299
    Drop a Daisy cutter on the BBC says:

    So Labour are claiming a victory and next up is Fred the shred’ peerage. Of course we all know that Gordon the mong Brown got his peerage off Labour and Brown and co, so how will the BBC spin this to try to blame the Tories?

    In fact where the fuck are the Tories tonight? The BBC and Sky are full of lefties.

    Like

    • 306
      Desperate Dan says:

      Sky and the BBC are blaming “the public” for the results of their witchhunt in much the same way they blamed “the public” for closing down the News of the World. Like Miliband, Balls and Umna, they’re such cowards they can’t take responsibility for their own actions.

      Like

      • 319
        Anonymous says:

        No, I think they actually believe that shit, ‘cos they are the people and vice versa. Utterly delusional wankers.

        Like

  72. 310
    Drop a Daisy cutter on the BBC says:

    apparently Alex Salmond welcomed Hester dropping his bonus, any chance this fat jock c u n t might take RBS and HBOS back to that rancid piss hole called Scotland?

    Like

    • 318
      Desperate Dan says:

      The sanctimonious Lord Oakshott of the LibDems also welcomes it. That’s the LibDems who’ve laundered £2.4million for the fraudster Michael Brown and insist on hanging on to it.

      Like

      • 330
        not a machine says:

        I had a quite chcuckle , when Jeremy Browns QT response hit the newspapers , I thought Eh , how does that one work . On the face of it though I think Mr Hester has done himself a good turn , even though it leaves intrigueing other questions , however to quote a Dave special “we cannot go on like this”

        Like

    • 331
      albacore says:

      Oh dearie me, poor Stevie Hester
      He don’t half make the brothers fester
      Who next will they be a-goin’ for
      To stoke up more of the old class war?
      These days, though, be careful what you think
      Just one false move and you’re in the clink

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-16783839

      Like

    • 340
      Cap in hand says:

      So that will be LESS tax raised by Labour from the bankers’ bonuses. Time for even more cuts and reduced spending. Joined-up non-thinking.

      Like

  73. 328
    not a machine says:

    Some interesting comments and analysis on the ecnomic physics of the ruins debt/deficet supertanker positions and predictive destinations !

    My first thoughts are perhaps how we all so fooled by what the ruin published and spun and what was really happening , but it does rather knaw to consider labour did pull off such a debt without much being able to be done before it was too late .

    If the true anlaysis from 2004 onwards is one of reduced manufacturing taxation to the xchequer whilst increasing borrowing on very dubious public sector investment and spending , then as we can see the buffers were going to be hit at a fair old speed as soon as the wonk borrowing hit the private sector banks . It may be interesting to consider how much lending was done for goverment full or part spending from 2004 from the banks compared to more old fashioned buiness investment and returns.

    I presume the belly aching is mainly about the upfront costs of reducing the deficet ? If the only response to this is not cut the deficet , the clearly we end up in very different and uncertain position . Labour have admitted they would keep the cuts , the tap has to be truned down , and despite labours and others moans this hasnt been quite the fire sale that many thought .

    The problem now is more of one of being smarter and adjusting , to what has been a different picture of growth . The lack of clarity of how the eurozone resolves its difciulties is pushing the options right down to the g20 , by which time I rather fear the eurozone will be in a much more diffcult position as the advice on creep and contagion wasnt heeded . Perhaps we shall know more after this EU meeting , but growth in the eurozone must be as problematic as in the UK as a lending injection cannot be procured . Quite how you end up with spains problem of 43% of 16-24 yr olds unemployed , shows all to well where debt crisis end .

    Enforcing austerity measures in a common currency makes a lot of sense , if your country has rather luxurious public sector costs and structure , mirrored perhaps in the EU structure itself . Going into a common currency without reform of gov spending was utter folly , let alone just lending with few questions asked about imbalances .

    The mantra of confidence for the eurozone may well be desirable by its govenors , but as yet no bit of paper has landed that explains the imbalances or how in future they will work , its a bit of piss take really for madma legarde to ask for her designer bag to be filled in a begging round when , no one is sure where it will go or even be spent . But then I look upon the Eurozone and ask who is incharge , who is responsible for getting budgets into line , Draghi , Junckers , Barroso ?? Its all rather like trying to find someone who is fit to drive everyone else home after a free booze event .

    IDS got a typical pressing this morning , and yet hardly anyone could comprehend that if measures are not implimented to reduce some of the oddities of this depts budget , the jam pot will have less for the things comming along . The NHS has a similar task , I fail to see how those who carp about a benefits cap , havent worked out that any economy is always faced with a benefits cap dependent upon what the economy can afford .
    Debts may well be taxation deffered , but defecits are cuts deferred , somthing labour didnt really talk about , when running such a wasteful and hot economy .

    Writing off the debt – is perhaps a popular favourite as it seems to have at first glance little impact , Whilst we have passed the £1trn I do not know what the current eurozone debt is , the plan is so far , to write down individual countries debts . Yet even this has hit problems as you never quite know as the debts are so dispersed among the EU banks and not just the eurozone , and rather like the butterflies wings in greece , may cause a strorm in some part unknown .

    So the eurozone has two tasks , defecit controls and implimentation and an orderly default. re finacing of its debts , I am at loss to see if any of these have materialised and madame legards designer bag is little more than a pleasant distraction .

    I have some thoughts about a mechanism for debt write off , but in fairness they should have been on the table many months ago along with the defecit controls and a timetable . Whats the point of a single currency if you cannot impliment taxation and defcet control .

    The euro will fail if the same wages and productivity cannot be implimented , which means a rapid and big rewrite of EU/eurozone legislation and functions.

    I await to which end of the piece of string they wish to start from , I certainly hope we wont be asked about the bill , that we didnt run up , I mean that would be failiure insulting prudence , or even just mild ecnomic folly and ignorance .

    I think we shall have to see if anything is in the chancellors hat for the UK , I disagree on Tax cuts , but with quite a few big thinkers scratching there heads I can see the tempatations of it , the trouble I have with tax cuts is that whilst they encourage spending , in a debt crsis it is the right of spending that is of importance , alas I am no fan of expensive big infrastructure either until affordable . The best plan to me , is getting the public sector deficet onto good foundations , whilst being smart about what home sectors can develope in a difficult climate .

    Like

  74. 335
    Millsy says:

    You mean it’s more to do with most companies and individuals (not to mention the government) being too indebted to do anything more than just tread water?

    Like

  75. 337
    bob says:

    Help here according to the Daily Wail

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093546/The-United-Kingdom-industry–Sneering-Sarkozy-attacks-Britain-French-TV.html

    If we have no manufacturing what are we exporting, FAT People, could cure a few of the worlds problems, we feed and water the unemployable, fatten them up, and then at a prime age, say 28, sell them off for food, SOYLENT GREEN!!!

    Like

  76. 342
    say what you see says:

    No SkidMark cartoon!

    Rejoice!

    Like

  77. 344
    Bloke says:

    I’ve got this Economy Tree in the garden, right. I’ve stripped off all the leaves, taken most of the braches for firewood, and now I’m having a go at the roots. But, the fucking thing WON’T GROW. What is the problem with it??

    Like

  78. 346
    Lexi says:

    Manson had a true vision for the future. Admittedly, it involved living in a bottomless pit, eating from a chocolate fountain and dancing day and night with John, Paul, George and Ringo but, compared to Labour, Manson seems almost normal and level-headed.

    Like

  79. 348
    Leftie rabblerouser says:

    Not that i disagree that Osborne is getting it wrong (probably for very different reasons that most of you lot think), but the figure of 11.3% you claim is only for the pharmaceutics sector only – never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh…Have you considered working for the TPA?

    The overall level of trade with the EU is up which rubbishes Osbornes claim that the UK is affected by strong ‘headwinds’ from the Eurozone. It is acually haveing zero affect on UK GDP. I bet ‘Call me Dave’ won’t admit to that at the next PMQs either!

    Like


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Owen Paterson lifts the lid on the Green Blob:

“I received more death threats in a few months at Defra than I ever did as secretary of state for Northern Ireland.”



Flight Watch says:

Russia Today is a cauldron of bullsh*t. The only people that take it seriously are deluded conspiracy theorists. Other RT journos have resigned citing the same reasons.

It’s about as believable as Press TV, KCNA of North Korea or the Daily Mirror.


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