October 26th, 2011

VAT Vince Dodged Full Fine


With St Vince reeling from another scandal, Guido and several co-conspirators have noticed that he has got away with this one surprisingly leniently. If this tax-avoidance had gone on while he was in government it would have ended him, but given it was so long ago, surely he should have paid more than the £500 slap-on-the-wrist for his £25,000 “oversight“? The Treasury’s rules are perfectly clear:

10% is £2,500, not £500. Pay up Vince, or are the rules different for Ministers over the small businesses they punish?


111 Comments

  1. 1
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Good thing he is not in charge of a multi million pund dedparmental budget eh?

    Like

    • 6
      Vince Cable says:

      Handycock fixed the payment for me via the Grand Master, Grand Lodge, The Strand. Must join this organisation, you can literally get away with murder with their protection just look at Handy and his son Che. What do they say? Oh yes, Boaz.

      Like

      • 106
        David Laws Lib Dem fiddler says:

        Socialist s only preach their shit, they do not practice what they preach. Sordid party with sordid MPs, wipe Lie Dumbs off the political map ASAP.

        Any news on Huhne?? Laws referred to the police yet?? Alexander employing 2,000 more tax collectors when he flips his house and Cable won’t pay his tax on time. Handcock still shagging or sending sex texts to little girls? The MPs exclude themselves from the same rules they apply to the public. Wiper Lie Dumbs off the map.

        Like

    • 18
      Selohesra says:

      Don’t be beastly to the senile old fool – I’m sure it just slipped his mind whilst he was predicting 19 of the last 2 recessions

      Like

    • 59
      AC1 says:

      http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,792970,00.html#ref=rss

      “EU Considers Ban on Country Ratings”

      Yes, attacking the messenger will help. Banning information will make markets much more stable. /sarc

      Do the EUSSR commissars have a fucking clue?

      Like

    • 67
      • 83

        Of course it is a stupid thing to attempt to do. However, it was also these very agencies which awarded syndicated sub-prime debt triple-A ratings and that was more than stupid. It was criminal. People should be inside either prison or a mental institution for that sort of thing, I care not which.

        Like

    • 71
      Cripes says:

      Steady on! He could go nuclear at any moment!

      Like

  2. 2
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    “If this tax-avoidance had gone on ”

    Guido, hate to be a pedant but isnt it “Evasion” as avoidence is perfectly legal?

    Like

    • 16
      Real Estate Cult says:

      Spot on, Bill.

      Like

    • 19
      GnosticBrian says:

      Has Vince paid income tax on the half that he supposedly gave away? Would that be an expense of earning the profit or an application of profit once it had been earned? And why ask for payment in Champagne and fine wine?

      Like

      • 73
        JABPHT says:

        To escape National Insurance liabilities. Wine etc isn’t readily convertable into cash, in the same way that gold is.

        Like

    • 50
      WVM says:

      VET doesn’t work though Billy and has a very different meaning, I’d put it down to author’s prerogative that being Mr Tom Dunn at the Sun not Guido or his many minions.

      Like

  3. 3
    True Anglo Saxon says:

    Too true. He should clear hios conscience and vote for a Referendum on the EU.

    Like

  4. 4
    Twitterati says:

    The Mantra of the Left:

    ” Do as I say, not as I do.”

    Like

    • 39
      Iloathlefties says:

      Tax is for the little people NOT us expense claiming, house “flipping” capital gains tax avoiders. We’re democrats who will not do the will of the people.

      Like

      • 51
        Leona Helmsley says:

        I had the ill grace to actually say that out loud and the Feds came after me; I showed them where I could have taken far more off in deductions than I actually did do, but the ones I did take were so dodgy they locked me up for spite. Something tells me Cable might want to consider just paying the moolah lest his affairs be looked into more thoroughly, on all accounts.

        Like

      • 109
        Retired civil servant says:

        Punish him. Make him go on “Strictly” and The X Factor.

        What else has he done? Do we know? Find out.

        Like

  5. 5
    Enoch Powell says:

    Shock horror – another corrupt MP

    “We, the people of the United Kingdom, are dissatisfied with the result of the EU Referendum Debate on 24 October 2011 and would like the House of Commons to reconsider its decision in light of this petition and grant us an opportunity through a referendum to express our desire on the relationship with the EU.”

    https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/20133

    Like

    • 11
      Tori Splitz says:

      signed

      Like

      • 36
        Tony Bliar is a complete cunt says:

        signed………………5000 a day, thats 20 more days until those self serving bastards might have to humour the British public again……………Cant wait…

        Like

    • 38
      Tax Payer says:

      Love it.

      Keep poking the b’astards ’til they wake up.

      Like

    • 79
      Enoch Powell says:

      I will ask my wife to post this on mums.net and see if we can get some traction across as much of the demographics as possible.

      Anyone with teenage children, please get them to sign and send to their friends – we can make this thing go viral with just a bit more pressure.

      Like

      • 90
        Diogenes the Cynic says:

        Tell her not to waste her time. You don’t seem to understand much about the EU.

        Like

        • 96
          Enoch Powell says:

          You don’t understand much about the British – don’t underestimate the people of this country.

          Like

          • Diogenes the Cynic says:

            I understand the modern British all too well. You’re living in 1941, pal. The EU is a fucking great swindle, and the great mass of Europeans are too stupid and ill educated to do anything about it. I’d go further and talk about the New World Order, German ambitions, and the cultural hegemony that has brought us to this sorry pass, but then I’d have to fetch my tinfoil titfer and it’s out on loan to David Icke.

            Like

          • Ex-Quango Chief says:

            D the C is absolutely right – we’vee been well and truly stuffed by the EU.

            Unelected, Unaccountable, corrupt, wasteful, oh so many more adjectives.

            Just chuck ‘em all off Beachy Head.

            Like

  6. 7
    Privileged says:

    There have been a considerable number of appeals against this rigid approach over the course of this year, quite a few successful at Tribunals around the country.

    HMRC have been conducting a damage limitation excercise trying to damp down available information about these cases, which basically found that they have been lying about the extent of their discretion over these pealties and not letting the public know that there is a ‘proportionaity’ and arguably also a ‘fairness’ test which means tribunals can set these penalties aside in some instances.

    For Vince to be given a 50% discount where others have had to go to the expense and stress of appealing, is however, somewhat suspicious

    Like

  7. 8
    Anonymous says:

    a couple of points:

    1) wasn’t his oversight £15,000 not £25k – see quote from the article:

    “A spokeswoman for the minister said once a rebate on his charity donations had been taken into account, he was billed for a figure of “less than £15,000″. ”

    2) the link that you give says that the penalty could be mitigated:

    “4.2 Mitigation
    A penalty can be reduced if there are mitigating circumstances that fall short of a reasonable excuse.

    Like reasonable excuse, the law does not define the grounds for mitigation but it specifically excludes:

    ■your lack of funds to pay any tax or penalty due
    ■the fact that little or no tax has been lost, and
    ■the fact that you acted in good faith.
    When we consider mitigation we will consider all the facts which led to the late registration. The amount of mitigation allowed will depend on the circumstances of the case. We can mitigate the penalty to nil but such cases are likely to be exceptional.”

    So it seems that HMRC mitigated the penalty by about 66% (£15,000*10%*66% = £500) which sounds reasonable considering he told them about it and paid it promptly.

    Like

    • 13
      Sarah says:

      You miss the point. Lawmakers cannot be law breakers – even if it was “an oversight”.

      How can St Vince of Cryptosocialistville be trusted with a multi million pound budget if he cannot get his tax return right?

      And which “charities” did he support to get more leniency?

      Like

      • 20
        Good Point says:

        Also, HMRC is conducting a review of this system at the moment

        Like

      • 28
        Anonymous says:

        No, you miss the point. He, or his accountants, made a mistake and they told HMRC. Same rules for him as anyone else.

        Like

        • 34
          Good Point says:

          Many many companies have been in full communication with HMRC and have still been subject to these penalties in full, one I know of to the point where they have nearly been driven into bankruptcy.

          Like

        • 93
          Pundit Too says:

          Any Mouse – No, you miss the point.
          He is practicing tax avoidance with his own earned money and was caught out and owned up.
          With public money he squanders it and there is little redress.

          Like

      • 62
        AC1 says:

        > How can St Vince of Cryptosocialistville be trusted with a multi million pound budget if he cannot get his tax return right?

        I despise St Vince, but the tax system is an overcomplicated disaster thanks to Brown.

        Like

      • 91
        Diogenes the Cynic says:

        I always misread “lawmakers” (horrible Americanism, BTW) as “lawnrakers” and am seized by a mental picture of one of those stupid and utterly worthless machines that manage to multiply the moss in your lawn. Come to think of it, lawnrakers are indeed lawnbreakers, so: as you were.

        Like

    • 22
      nell says:

      I suspect you will find that small businesses in this position would be virtually unable to get the hmrc to mitigate their fine down from the max regardless of the circumstances unless they could afford to pay some high costing lawyer/accountant to make an appe@l for them, in which case they’d still be grossly out of pocket.

      Like

      • 29
        Anonymous says:

        Yeah, but you’re a fuckwit.

        Like

        • 37
          Good Point says:

          No, you are a fuckwit. What nell is describing is exactly the kinds of problems and dilemmas small companies have.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            More 6th form level discussion between you two: you must be the Milibandit brothers and I claim my £500

            Like

          • Good Point says:

            The Milibands have never worked for their livings and know nothing about running a business. Still, do encourage the use of ‘Miliband brother’ as a common form of insult. It might catch on.

            Like

          • Pundit Too says:

            I and many others have been in this situation and I can assure Any Mouse that HMRC is far from lenient on giving any leeway.
            They do give you time to pay larger amounts depending on circumstances, but you must agree to a contract on this and it is closely monitored.
            Vince obviously pulled strings because of who he is, and he managed to get a settlement that normal businessmen will not get.
            That good old Communist mantra was in play, “We are all equal but some are more equal than others.”

            Like

        • 49
          yeah, right.. says:

          A well considered and finely constructed argument, retorting to all the points raised and offering intellegent reasoning against them.

          Like

    • 31
      gildedtumbril says:

      All most commendable. Let us hang the bastard. He is a useless nitwit. Neither use nor ornament. A 24 karat eejit. A bum. A scrounger. A cheat…Sounds like a politician.

      Like

  8. 9
    SpAd says:

    I have come to loathe the LibDems almost as much as Labour does.

    Like

    • 14
      nell says:

      I have come to loathe the libdums almost as much as I loathe labour.

      Like

      • 17
        contempt says:

        I loathe them as much as I loathe Cameron.
        RedEd I just pity because he is a dick

        Like

        • 24
          nell says:

          I do wonder what sort of pm cameron might have made if he had not been hobbled by the libdums, but that’s of no consequence now.

          militwit however is just so dire – his behaviour and performance is always so gobsmackingly bad, there is just not a scintilla of the statesman about him.

          Like

          • gildedtumbril says:

            Surely nell, the 650 shysters, charlatans, scumbags and scalliwags, all of whom are scoundrels do not have one scintilla amongst them?

            Like

          • Tony Bliar is a complete cunt says:

            A shit one………………Gutless twat……………And I voted for him…..A new leader is required before I vote coservative again………..I might for the crack vote for Red Ed next time round……………

            Like

          • nell says:

            Well Gilded whilst I mostly agree with you but I have to say that there were some notable speeches on monday night in favour of we plebs having a democratic say on europe and two of them surrendered up pps jobs in order to say it.

            And they weren’t all tories. douglascarswell was notable amongst the tories who spoke but then frankfield and katehoey also were excellent, so I think we have to allow that there are some mp’s who are genuine and work hard hard to do a good job – sadly my tory mp, shailesh vara, is not one of them.

            Like

          • AC1 says:

            95% of politicians let down the other 5%.

            Like

    • 77
      Dud says:

      I’m no tory nor anything else neither. The libdems are supporting the tories (who did not actually win the general election remember). The conservitudes are falling apart, inter se. Ha Ha. Soon there’ll be no choice but red Ed. (I actually preferred his bruv. – not biblically you understand), and the gormless Balls et al.
      Get a grip tory boys (and girls, if there are any). I think there bigger fish frying just now, ones that may eat us all.

      Like

      • 103
        CYNICAL OLD MAN says:

        Dud, you and the Beeboid/Guardianista media keep telling us the Tories are falling apart. That may be hyperbole but they do seem to be having problems keeping everyone on that side of the HOC on board. My guess is that is exactly what Cameron wants. Since he became leader he’s gone out of his way to insult and be openly contemptuous to the Tories’ core voters and long term activists and deliberately antagonise his right wing backbenchers.

        He’s already proved he’s no “one nation” Tory, but a left wing, tree hugging chancer with no particular beliefs other than the pursuit of power. He’s a self serving career politician, nothing more, nothing less.

        I, for one, will NEVER vote Conservative while he is leader. Voting for them is condoning the spivvy bastard’s behaviour.

        Like

  9. 10
    yeah, right.. says:

    Pay up Vince, or are the rules different for Ministers over the small businesses they punish?

    Er….yes. Different for Goldmans as well.

    Like

  10. 12
    You got more mouth than a cows got cunt says:

    Snout in the trough again Vince. No squealing this time or uncle rupert might come and visit you

    Like

  11. 15
    nell says:

    Ah! One rule for them and another for us.

    Like

  12. 21
    David Amess says:

    He’s such a Hunt.

    Like

  13. 23
    Jimmy says:

    “Now Guido doesn’t like to be po-faced; people can say what they like really, but he can’t stand hypocrisy.”

    Like

  14. 25
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Like

  15. 27
    Gordon Brown says:

    ‘In a dark corner somwhere in Kilkardy’

    mutter mutter mumble, why didn’t I go with my instincts and cancel that election, I could have declared a state of emergency or something, mutter, mutter, who’s fault was it, Sue’s I think, mumble, mumble, where’s that Mr Omaha, I want to tell him I saved the world, mutter, mumble, if I could only get another photo opp, with him, mumble, mutter, mutter I hate that Blair, I want his job mutter, mutter . . . . . .

    Like

  16. 30
    Billy Bowden is the world's greatest umpire! says:

    This is a true story folks,I was that patient !!!!

    I’ve just been to see my doctor.

    “How can I help you?” he asked.

    I said, “I was chilling out this morning listening to ‘In The Air Tonight’ when suddenly my iPod accidentally slipped up my arse, now it’s stuck.”

    He looked at me with a puzzled face and said, “I’ve never heard that one before.”

    I said, “It’s a Phil Collins song.”

    Like

    • 55
      Bobby Bowden was the greatest American-Football coach ever ! says:

      No, I’ve never heard it, but hum a few bars, I’ll fake it.

      Like

  17. 32
    Geoff, England says:

    Shouldn’t the penalty be at least 100% of the tax due, regardless of how late it is?

    Like

  18. 33
    Axe the TV Tax. says:

    Please sign this if you so wish, it’s the most popular anti-TV tax e-petition and has 10 months left to run with the number of signatures at 2,443 so far.

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/264

    Thank you.

    Like

  19. 43
    nell says:

    “slackers are stifling the economy and should be sacked” the pm says.

    couldn’t agree with him more – let’s start with gordon

    Like

  20. 45
    Albert Hall says:

    Including me there are three employees in my business, if I am a day late the VatMan is on me like the proverbial ton of bricks, in fact, if we post our cheque and it arrives there a day late for whatever reason despite the franking showing a correct postal date we still get clobbered. That’s the way to encourage business in the UK.

    Like

    • 47
      nell says:

      And do you think, Albert, that cable’s excuse that he ‘didn’t know the vat was owing’ would wash with the hmrc if you didn’t pay it by it’s due date?

      Like

      • 57
        albacore says:

        Did not more than half of our sagacious MPs prove incapable either of understanding or of complying with the rules of their own expenses system?
        The successful grounds for mitigation in this case were therefore most likely to have been professional incompetence (assuming that Parliament may be defined as a profession).

        Like

    • 65
      Hummer says:

      I own a small business in the West Midlands – since 1980 we have never been more than a few weeks late in paying our VAT but now we have been left in no doubt that even one days lateness will result in a fine and a stern lecture from a Scotch female government employee – bank transfer 3 days ahead of due date is the only way we can avoid the wrath of the Scottish VAT Office

      They record everything I say to them like the Stasi

      Some days because of government interference, I really think fuck it, shut the business down, put everybody on the dole and rent out the property

      the way small business is treated is a disgrace

      Like

  21. 51
    Sir Clive Sinclair says:

    Maybe he got 2% because he is a Mensa member?

    Like

  22. 54
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Like

    • 58
      Nigel Farage says:

      Will no one rid us of this turbulent union?

      Like

    • 92
      Sarah says:

      The Conservatives are cutting at home to pay the EU demand.

      Like

    • 95
      Van Rumpoy's pet poodle says:

      This week only 8 British MEP’s voted for the 5% deduction in expenses including Farage.
      Only a total of 41 MEP’s voted for this.
      Finally they decided to freeze expenses to avoid the wrath of the people suffering under their mismanagement and to whom they are supposed to represent.
      Perhaps if each individual UK MEP is asked how he voted this could be made a reason for voting or not voting for him?

      Like

  23. 56
    Ed Miliband says:

    Whether I take Britain into the Euro depends on how long I’m prime minister.

    Like

  24. 61
    Dr Conrad Murray says:

    I’ve been asked by someone called Nick Clegg to be the personal physician to someone called Chris Hunt.

    Like

  25. 66
    Gordon Brown says:

    If I was still prime minister, there would be no deficit and no unemployment. I saved the world. Wibble.

    Like

  26. 68
  27. 69
    Billy Bowden is the world's greatest umpire! says:

    I’m going to scare the shit out of everyone at the Halloween party this weekend.

    I’m going as Greece’s economy.

    Like

  28. 70
    non believer says:

    “10% is £2,500, not £500. Pay up Vince, or are the rules different for Ministers over the small businesses they punish?”

    I’ve owned a couple of small businesses in my time and been late reporting VAT a few times too and never been charged full wack fines on the first offence; they’re surpisingly amenable the first time; not quite so friendly on subsequent occasions.

    Like

  29. 74
    I say I say Isay says:

    Went to a nursery/big shop and it appears we are going to have a capitalist christmas not a politically correct winterval, christmas is coming ,the kids were enjoying the model train sets.

    Like

  30. 88
    Bumbling senile anon Old Fool says:

    Ooops was to busy briefing against those Tory Scum bags, Ooops I mean our respected coalition partners, well such a piddling little fine thanks to my best mate Peter, the master of the dark arts

    Like

  31. 97
    Harold Macmillan says:

    Quite obivously it’s down to the company he’s been keeping recently. Cheating lying Tory scum, bound to rub off, eh?

    Like

  32. 101
    A 2nd class citizen says:

    In relation to the EU, it is widely believed by financial experts that Europe is in recession and has been for quite sometime. This will not be made official until next month when the stats appear. Italy is the next crisis.

    Like

  33. 102
    blurinsed and proud says:

    Today the Duchess of Cornwall has opened the “Ebony” horse club in Brixton

    Super!

    Now we have mounted drug dealers and muggers

    Like

  34. 104
    Pixie King says:

    HMRC encourage a “soft touch” on VAT during a recession to avoid placing a burden on small business. As such Vince can be pleased we are still up sh*t creek without a paddle.

    On the bright side…Perhaps a kick in the butt from HMRC will make Vince get off his?

    Small Business needs tax breaks to stimulate economic recovery. As Vince has had a taste of the Treasury’s “tax collection is everything austerity mantra”…We can only hope.

    Like

  35. 105
    wotson says:

    I have no time for cheating rats ,but shurely Vince had placed all the info with his accountants who failed to pay the right tax. This is different? from those mps who wasted our money putting pathetic little bills for a packet of crisps

    Like

  36. 107
    Post hoc says:

    No the point is that he is getting special treatment. If any small biz was late with VAT, they would have inspectors crawling all over them. If you are late with HMRC, even for failing to submit a form on time (i.e. not a payment default) then the fine is the same as St. Vince’s £25,000. It is totally inequitable.

    As Sec of State for Business, he should resign in disgrace!!!!!!!!!!! (And sack his accountant!)

    Like


Seen Elsewhere

Thacker Played Down Scandal | Times
How Clegg Lost the Women of Britain | Sophy Ridge
Multiculturalism: At What Price? | Allison Pearson
Labour Failed Those Victims | Labour Uncut
We Cannot Ignore the Race Issue Here | Dan Hodges
74 MPs Who Back Stop Mills Motion | Speccie
Milibande | Ian Birrell
The True Meaning of Political Correctness Gone Mad | Speccie
Nigel, Nigel, Nigel! | Bloomberg
Bercow Blinks | Guardian
Speaker on the Ropes | Indy


VOTER-RECALL
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Former Rotheram MP Denis MacShane concedes…

“I think there was a culture of not wanting to rock the multicultural community boat if I may put it like that… Perhaps yes, as a true Guardian reader, and liberal leftie, I suppose I didn’t want to raise that too hard.”



Owen Jones says:

We also need Zil lanes.


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