September 6th, 2011

38 Degrees Off Course

If you fancy a laugh, mention the left-wing astro-turfing operation 38 Degrees to a government MP, or their staff. Their email list encourages people to spam MPs with the same email over and over again on whatever issue is bugging the left at that moment. One MP has seemingly had enough of  it. Stephen Phillips, a QC turned MP, decided to take a look at the “independent legal advice” that 38 Degrees are currently pushing around, concerning the NHS bill. His damning reply is well worth a read in full:

Funnily enough there hasn’t been a reply from 38 Degrees to the accusation they are misrepresenting legal advice in order to fit their agenda…


  1. 1
    Popeye says:

    Are you really surprised?

    • 19
      Ah! Monika says:

      What’s the next step?

      • 24
        Fiscal Gerrymandering says:

        The next step is for Dave to ask his UK Digital Champion who sits on the Cabinet Office’s Efficiency and Reform Board aka Martha Lane Fox, whether she still thinks “38 Degrees is essential”

        • 73

          Bliar Started the Process of getting the NHS ready for Sale, The same Westminister Knackers who are spending all our Wealth and burdening the people of this country with Eye Watering Taxation to create a fragmented Society through the Benefit system. These Traitors have through immigration policy, Perverse benefit payments that reward the feckless single female parenting, the perverse education system that excludes young men. This Ideology is Economically bankrupt and now proving to be morally and socially bankrupt. A bankrupt country with a bankrupt ideology torturing and waging illegal Wars. Not a good outlook.

        • 111
          Anonymous says:

          You might bother to read the rebuttal to Philips/Lansley on the 38 Degrees website.

      • 30
        rt. hon. Dave Cameron MP, UK Likud says:

        Is this some kind of joke, fat Fawker? Everyone knows the plan is to bomb Tripoli and Damascus, both at 33 degrees – geddit? – not 38 degrees.

        I told Benny you couldn’t trust a boss-eyed hindu bog trotter to be a hasbara.

        • 38
          AC1 says:

          Ah the left wing anti-semite appears…

          National Socialist does exactly what it says on the tin*.

          *If you require a higher level of genocide please see international socialism.

        • 59
          wot? says:

          ¿Es esta una especie de broma, Fawker gordo? ¿Cada uno sabe que el plan es bombardear Trípoli y Damasco, ambos en 33 grados – geddit? – no 38 grados.
          Dije a Benny que usted no podía confiar que un hindú observado por jefe atasca al trotón para ser un hasbara.

    • 21
      Robert Catesby says:

      Anything that irritates these self serving parasites must be for the good.

      I have noticed that recently, you have been attacking your fellow conspirators.
      Not good Guido!

      Remember what happened last time – you Grass!

    • 28
      AC1 says:

      I wonder who’s funding them?

    • 32
      Beep Beep says:

      So what is the money trail like for 38 degrees?

      • 39
        • 51
          Fiscal Gerrymandering says:

          Have a look at the diatribe on their facebook page

          They seem to think that government money should be made available to pay for all the wonderful things that they want because they deserve them, otherwise they will burn parliament and all the nasty rich people.

          This “entitlement generation” are an unintended product of poor immigration control, over generous benefits, poor education policies and weak judicial system.

          These people have no sense of self reliance and being able to make your own way in the world and as a noisy collective addressing the disaffected they are a dangerous group.

          Unfortunately they seem hell bent on destroying the current system (which needs a lot of changes) but have no realistic plan to put in its place.

          • AC1 says:

            >They seem to think that government money should be made available to pay for all the wonderful things that they want

            They seem to think that money should be extorted from their fellow citizens to fund all the things that they want, but don’t fancy choosing to pay for.

            Marxist mental illness = Envy + Projection + Narcissism

    • 106
      Peter Grimes says:

      No, fuckwit Leftoids can turn anything said or written into the exact opposite of what was said or written.

      Just think of the bullshit like ‘we have repaid debt’ or any other utterance from the arseholes of the Lying Quartet of BlairBrownMandelsonCampbell, or any other ZaNuLieBor ‘minister’ come to that.

  2. 2
    Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies. says:

    Thats them told. I particularily enjoy the final paragraph.

    • 40
      Anonymous says:

      Be honest – the final paragraph is the only one that makes sense.

      • 93
        No wonder they have yet to reply says:

        Am I alone in finding this letter unreadable. Can I suggest he constructs proper meaningful sentences next time !

  3. 3
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    The left and intellectual dishonesty have been bedfellows for a very long time.

  4. 4
    • 14
      say what you see says:

      He can’t handle the truth. He’s gone feral.

    • 50
      Sophie says:

      Nothing. He is a prime architect of Blue Labour.

      Blue Labour are continuing the cultural genocide against the English started by Red Labour.

      The English people & our countryside are not safe with Dave Camerons Conservatives.

      Blue Labour out.

    • 67
      oddly helpful says:

      As Peter Hitchens pointed out this morning, Mr Kenneth Clarke sees Party Conference coming over the horizon (with pitchforks raised and flambards erect) and has decided to throw them some red meat to distract them from his scent.

  5. 5
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Are they related to Labour, they are good at misrepresenting legal advice.

  6. 7
    Sir William Waad says:

    This is a bold attempt to use reason and analysis against prejudice and, as such, worthwhile but unlikely to succeed.

  7. 8
    Popeye says:

    In case you are unaware, 38 degrees is run by the usual bunch of head in the cloud pink o activists,
    Gordon Roddick, co-founder of The Body Shop, Paul Hilder of Oxfam, and Benedict Southworth of the World Development Movement. Ben Brandzel, formerly of MoveOn, Avaaz, GetUp! and the Barack Obama presidential campaign in the United States.The Executive Director is David Babbs, who signs off some emails and appears in the media. Babbs was formerly Head of Activism at Friends of the Earth .

  8. 9
    Loungelizard says:

    Was Hari involved in this ?

    • 15
      Johann Hari says:

      As Asclepios, god of healing, once remarked to me, “You’re a handsome fellow, Johann.”

  9. 10
    Nemesis says:

    The only really admirable thing anyone from 38 Degrees has done was when David Babbs managed a threesome with two reasonably hot girls. Other than that, it’s just a rewarmed entryist People and Planet.

  10. 11
    AC1 says:

    Lefties always hate people being given more choice, I suppose they are supported by the sort of sociopath that likes making decisions for others.

  11. 12
    Ed Milibandagedfinger says:

    Phew! That’s gone completely over my head I’m afraid. I couldn’t follow more than half of it. I never was much of a one for all this intellectual stuff!

    • 16
      EdMiliband says:

      These emails are wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on. But parents and the public have been let down by both sides because the government has acted in a reckless and provocative manner.After today’s emails I urge both sides to put aside the rhetoric and stop it happening again.

      Will that do?

  12. 13
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    If the lefties are screaming that the coalition are destroying thier NHS then why not a extra tax on lefties so the rest of us can organise thier own affairs.

    • 20
      AC1 says:

      Make the NHS opt-out…

      • 23
        I'mnumbervi says:

        No, make it opt-in.

        • 62
          labourunionsbbc we are one says:

          First you opt back out, then you opt back in, in out in out, you shake it all about, you do the leftie shuffle and you turn around, that’s what it’s all about.

          Oh, the knuckle shuffle, oh, the leftie shuffle, knees bend, mandelsons cumming, rah, rah, rahja.

      • 25
        Anonymus says:

        and then you opt back in when you’re old and sick.

        Just like the prince of Sealand.

        • 44
          AC1 says:

          Proving what a silly system the NHS is.

        • 48
          Tessa Tickles says:

          Opt-in when you’re old and sick? Good idea! Being dealt with by the local NHS Deathcamp would certainly be cheaper than a flight to Switzerland.

          But I think it would be a lot more distressing, so I’ll stick with the Swiss. Consumer choice.. I love the free market.

  13. 16
    Michele Bachmann says:

    By throwing around terms like “anti-worker,” Jimmy Hoffa and his allies on the left are engaging in class warfare, and I won’t stand for it. As President, our policies will be truly “pro-worker,” as we work together to rebuild our economy from the carnage of President Obama’s mismanagement and restore jobs to the millions who are now unemployed due to his policies. We can put Americans back to work through lowering taxes on job creators, decreasing government spending, and getting rid of job killing regulations. As we travel around the country sharing this vision with the American people, we are continuously reminded that campaigns are not cheap–will you make a contribution today of $25, $50, $100 or any amount up to the legal limit to support our efforts today? Thank you!

    • 52
      Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

      Any chance of relocating to England and replacing David Cameron as leader of the Tea Party.

      The very best of luck in toppling that “one term” president,Obama.

      • 84
        tardkiller says:

        another religious loony… no thanks.

        just as bad as Palin, but at least Palin is worth a shag

    • 78
      oddly helpful says:

      Lovely structure for a hypnotic induction: I.. our.., we.. as we.., we are continuously reminded.., make a contribution… Thank you! [applause and affirmation]

      Would stick a tenner on her to make Veep on the ticket that runs against Obama.

  14. 18
  15. 22
    botzarelli says:

    Excellent letter, not least because I can say “I told you so” way back in March when Ed Miliband thought he’d been very clever in PMQs by raising the issue of the applicability of EU Competition Law.

    38 Degrees is a useful service though. The emails are auto-generated but you can edit them before sending. I tend to use it as a reminder about policies which are subject to almost invariably off-beam criticism and then reword the email to urge my MP to take the opposite line from that recommended by 38 Degrees.

    • 43
      anon says:

      Same here – it’s a useful template for supportinf forest sell-off, NHS privatisation and the like. Sadly my pisspoor Labour MP doesn’t reply to anything at all.

  16. 26
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    a ethical socialist?

    • 33
      AC1 says:

      It’s an oxymoron. You notice he hates profits, i.e. he’s pro-loss. Anything that makes a loss will not be around for long (unless someone extorts other people to keep it going).

      • 35
        Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

        Yes, i have added a couple of comments, No modding or sign in :-)

    • 96
      M says:

      Eoin , is well on the way to dysfunctional weirdness

  17. 29
    Anonymous says:

    “were a utility like Gas or Telecoms”…. try telling that to the forces fighting and losing life & limbs.. Sleazeford & North DykeHam stephen Phillips who voted him in power!

  18. 31
    David says:

    The 38 Degree website says 3,652 people paid an average of £15 each for the junior counsel’s opinion – that’s £55,000. I hope they enjoyed chucking their cash away on advice that was ignored. Can’t help naively thinking that it would have been better spent on a Macmillan nurse at their local NHS hospital.

  19. 34
    Eileen Critchley says:

    Yet more evidence that the Left are not very good at the digital stuff.

    Strange really, especially when you consider all the privately educated creative types who default to socialism for fashion purposes.

    • 49
      AC1 says:

      They are led to entitlement by their “parental welfare state.”

    • 97
      To be fair says:

      To be fair, in order to gain acceptance with your peer in the Arts/Entertainment industries you have to pretend to be a socialist. You can still squirrel your money away in off shore tax havens and no one bats an eyelid so its a small price to pay.

  20. 45
    Displaced Brummie says:

    38 Degrees of Stupid.

  21. 53

    So that says that EU Competition Law was there before-hand. Ok, let’s roll with that.

    Under the Internal Market competition was there. And we ended up with this bloaty back-office as more Legal, Accounting, and Admin stuff were required. And that was under VERY LIMITED competition.

    Now we have a system that will be even more fragmented and competitive. Which means FULL BLOWN ( not limited like before ) competition, and as such even more Lawyers being needed. And more admin and accounting as well. And more Ombudsman work as it’ll be harder to make complaints that are effective, due to said fragmentation. So a lot more EU Competition Law will be used than before.

    Much as 38 Degrees need to work on their wording ( a slight exaggeration on their part ) all the above letter shows is that you are utterly full of crap.

    Much more Lawyers and Competition Law manoeuvrings will be needed. Not less, more. And it’s gonna cost.

    Even The NHS’s own Lawyers have admitted they expect The Legal Bill to go up. It’s almost like you do not understand The NHS at all. Part of that is Ken Clarkes’ Legal Aid cuts sure, but part of it will be with more Lawyers being needed.

    • 57
      AC1 says:

      It’s not really full-blown (i.e. moral) competition as the patient isn’t really controlling the money.

    • 71
      botzarelli says:

      The thing is that overall, even though there are compliance costs, Competition Law is a good thing. It is designed to benefit the consumer. Not in a purely mechanistic “this is cheapest” way, but in terms of providing the best service and denying anyone the ability to extract monopolistic rents from the system.

      Procurement law also enables the NHS to get the best deal out of its suppliers. It does not need to be applied in a bureaucratic way – that is a choice made by quangos like the OGC and the public sector procurement officers after asking the wrong question to their legal advisers. They ask “how can we eliminate the risk of legal challenge” and get advised on putting together complex fool-proof contract evaluation and award procedures which take teams of people ages to apply and raise bid costs for contractors. In the extreme case, such risk aversion and the compliance costs made by the public sector push contractors towards work-arounds (eg the cover pricing practice in the construction sector allowing construction businesses to stay on tender lists by putting in fake bids intending to lose rather than incur the expense of bidding for contracts they didn’t want).

      Competition and procurement law might end up being costly and diverting resources in the NHS towards lawyers and consultants but only if the NHS is fool enough not to take a robust view.

      • 89
        oddly helpful says:

        There were a couple of good articles hidden behind the Times’ paywall yesterday.

        Nick Seddon of Reform showed there are models of timely and open reporting of health outcomes and doctor-accountability which the NHS ought to adopt from India.

        Dr Phil Hammond wrote that “Labour treated health as a linear system: throw a brick out of Whitehall with a certain force and trajectory and ministers thought you could predict where it would land. But healthcare is a complex adaptive system, like a pigeon. Set it free and you have no idea where it will land.”

        There are intelligent people working in the NHS, identify them and put them in control of implementing best practice in their patch of the system.

        Yes, the consequence will be patchy results – but clear information will lead patients to the best care that they can find.

    • 74
      Anonymous says:

      Mmmmm might be something in the Goods & chattels Act.. y’no chopping things down and carting them away without permission

  22. 60
    Thickest Labour member says:

    This twat is a member of the NEC.

  23. 63
    Breaking News! says:

    Moran to face 21 CHARGES!!! :-D

  24. 72
    Researcher says:

    Thank f*ck for that.

  25. 75
    Ha ha ha ha ha! says:


    Excuse me for a moment…
    :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

  26. 76
    Tuscan Tony says:

    In fairness, ask 6 lawyers, get 6 conflicting opinions.

  27. 77
    Ha ha ha ha ha! (corrected html) says:


    Excuse me for a moment…
    :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

  28. 83
    Senator Bloodn' Gore, says:

    The Internet is a medium that allows the disaffected, angry and plain mad (as a badger’s arse) to have a say…..see above (from this message and upwards).

    • 86
      Sir William Waad says:

      In the old days, you would have had to use the lavatory wall for that routine. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

  29. 90
    RT says:

    After their bus broke down a bunch of evil Engl-shh Chr–risti’ans were attacked by UA@F heroes and mo-sl’ms in East London. The police ensured the rule of comm;on purpose by arresting the evil nat’ives, whilst the others kindly threw bricks and bottles at them to ensure no further breaches of the peace in the coach. A woman exited the bus at their request and after an unfortunate tumble was helped to her feet by a kind gentleman with the point of his shoe.
    Filmed and posted on you tube as a victory for common decency anti fa=sci;t spokesman opined how satisfying it was to see women being kicked…..cont’d p.94.

  30. 91
    Ian says:

    Why is he writing ‘the’ as [t]he & ‘as’ as [a]s, what does that mean?

  31. 92
    Penfold says:

    The facts don’t normally prevent the left from making a song and dance about matters.
    Nice to see Stephen Phillips taking the effort to totally rubbish 38 degrees.
    Perhaps he should invoice them for the time and effort to refute their ridiculous crap.
    Might he also report them for time wasting and providing the provision for harassment.

    • 100
      Hugh Janus says:

      They really are a bunch of clowns. Last Sunday they had planned to hold a protest meeting at a forest near here, to have their say about it being sold. Only problem was, the forest they chose is not owned or run by the Forestry Commission, and could never be sold anyway, so the whole thing all seemed a bit pointless. They must be fair-weather protesters only, because in the end they failed to show up.

    • 113
      Anonymous says:

      Philips is doing very nicely anyway, earning hundreds of thousands from his legal work. Wonder what his Lincolnshire constituents would think if they knew he was trousering all this money in a second job.

      Of course his his predecessor in his Sleaford constituency (D hogg) had a little problem too.

    • 118
      Anonymous says:

      How many jobs (apart from being an MP) does this Stephen Phillips QC have?

  32. 99
    Anonymous says:

    No one pays junior counsel 55 grand for one page of advice

    Probably just a snotty nosed activist with an A level in Law, lefties robbing donors is nothing new.

    • 109
      Anonymous says:

      Actually it was over 60 pages and is on their website. Make an effort before spouting off ignorantly and lazily…

  33. 102
  34. 103
    Article 38 says:

    Great letter.

    PS. No relation.

  35. 104
    Stephen Wrexmore says:

    Good. I agree with Tory plans on the NHS. Why should I pay taxes towards other feckless people’s healthcare? It’s not my bloody fault you got cancer, pay for it yourself. Just like welfare: it’s not my fault you are disabled. Find your own money.

  36. 105
    simon says:

    Why Stephen Phillips MP has not had an answer from the leftwing wazzocks is that they do not understand Mr Phillips’ letter….. Kerry McCarthy MP isn’t involved in daft leftist group is she…

  37. 107
    Anonymous says:

    Stephen Philips MP, so beloved of Guido, seems to spend most of his time trousering hundreds of thousands of pounds moonlighting as a barrister. Take a look at ‘Theyworkforyou’. Apparently this guy works for himself rather than the good people of Sleaford.

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Guido-hot-button (1) Guido-hot-button (1)

Rod Liddle on the loony UN sexism special rapporteur:

“There is more sexism in Britain than in any other country in the world, according to a mad woman who has been sent here by the United Nations.

Rashida Manjoo is a part-time professor of law at Cape Town University in the totally non-sexist country of South Africa (otherwise known as Rape Capital Of The World).

Mrs Magoo has been wandering around with her notebook and is appalled by the sexist “boys’ club” culture here, apparently.

I don’t doubt we still have sexism in the UK. But is it worse than in, say, Saudi Arabia, d’you think, honey-lamb? Or about 175 other countries? Get a grip, you doolally old bat.”

orkneylad says:

What’s he been doing FFS, mining bitcoins?

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