September 4th, 2011

Why Can’t Progressives “Be the Change They Want to See”?

Guido had a bit of a dig at the three-houses-owning, multi-millionairess, anti-poverty campaigner Polly Toynbee last week. She responded that Guido was laying the charge of “Champagne socialist” against her, something which Guido has yet to do. More on the money was this part of her rebuttal:-

“…you say we should be Gandhi-like saints and give everything away before we can advocate being taxed more. The point about tax is that’s it’s collective – it’s an “I will if you will” deal. I see no hypocrisy in any of this – but no doubt you will go on spreading ad hominem empty spite – instead of engaging fairly with the substance of the argument.”

Engaging with the substance of her argument, Guido asks, why is progress towards her social democratic utopia an “I will if you will” deal? If it is conditional on reciprocation from the likes of Guido it will never happen. Millions of us already feel over-taxed, like her employers we’re going to hold on to every tax break and tax haven we can come hell or Edward Balls. If she thinks she is under-taxed she can do something about it tomorrow, pay the Treasury more, they really do accept donations to bring down the deficit. Polly could give her own self-defined “unjust rewards” – for that is how she describes her own income – to charity and live more like the common people. Instead she chooses to keep the rewards that put her in the top 1% of income earners.

The home in London worth a million-and-a-half, the house in the country, the villa in Italy, the sheer inequality of it all must play on the conscience of a progressive social democrat. Her get out for keeping all is that she won’t make the sacrifice unless the likes of the greedy and privileged bankers in the neighbouring villas do so as well. Do you see the flaw in this aspiration?

Polly’s excuse for educating her children in private schools is that the state schools were crap at the time. The exact same reason the Fawkes girls go to schools whose existence Polly Toynbee now campaigns against. Another case of “do as I say, not as I do”.  

Meanwhile the next generation of progressives is lining up to be no less hypocritical than the last. Will Straw commends Tory MPs Matthew Hancock and Nadhim Zahawi who in their new book Masters of Nothing argue that the banking crisis was partly due to a lack of women in trading rooms. Too much testosterone contributed to the debt crisis apparently, well that and a lack of pay transparency among other things.

ipprWill is a wonk at the IPPR, the key policy and propaganda think-tank of the progressive soft left. So how does IPPR do on the gender equality and pay transparency front? Guido asked Will, IPPR’s associate director, how much he earns he refused to say or even give an average for associate directors at the IPPR. Pay transparency is only for bankers, not policy makers it seems. 

On gender equality the IPPR has 9 male serving directors out of 12 at the top. At the bottom 7 out of 8 operations staff are female. Another progressive case of “do as I say, not as I do”.  


  1. 1
    Wayne and Garth says:

    A sphincter says what?

  2. 2
    Stop Stealing Our Money says:

    So lemme get this straight. Polly won’t pay tax than she can get away with unless everyone else does. She sounds just like every other overtaxed bugger in the country.

  3. 3
    Barry says:

    Is leading by example not in the progressive book?

  4. 4
    Kered Ybretsae says:

    Come the revolution everybody gets FREE champagne and cigars.
    But I hate champagne and cigars.
    Come the revolution you’ll do what we tell you!!!
    You have been warned.

  5. 5
    What a plonker. says:

    She is the perfect example of a hypocritical champagne socialist.

  6. 6
    MrAngry61 says:

    At least Polly is prepared to communicate, albeit from behind her ideological battlements.

    As for the so-called ‘Tory MPs’ arguing that pay transparency and bosoms would have avoided the debt crisis, I for one would like to know by what authority they write about ANYTHING, let alone finance and psychology.

    Finally, the IPPR. Isn’t that a Satanic UN organisation to do with climate change?

  7. 7
    Socialists = Sociopaths says:

    Hypocrisy and mendacity – it’s in Liebour’s D-N-A.

  8. 8
    Masters of Nothing says:


    Uou were not born yesterday

    You know what happened in the run up to and during ajnd after the banking crash

    It was due to MASSIVE FRAUD on Wall Street. The US Government is now, finally, prosecuting 17 banks including HSBC, RBS and Barclays (the usual suspects in the Uk). for tens of billions of US$ (as they should have done years ago)

    The same happened in the City of London

    To even think that this fraud was due to too f em or too many women illustratedsa profound ignorance of what happened

  9. 9
    Lard Presclott of Bulimia, Bog Seats, Beams,Bellies,Banjos,Punches, Croquet, Pies, Jags 'n' Shags says:

    ‘Transparency and bosoms’. I’m all in favour.

  10. 10
    Masters of Nothing says:


    There can be no justification of ca

  11. 11
    A Sham Pain SocialShitist, - just like Princes Poll says:

    We understand each other, – Poll and I.

    We drink together, laugh together, and laugh at the little people, who, on the one hand try to ape us and repeat all the trash we churn outn – they better had, – we run the Councils, and all the scams that cream money off the PTB, and on the other hand, – all the uneducated, unintellectual types, that are so backward compared to us Progressives.

    Even Dave is one of us, – that’s the biggest laugh!

    Anyway, – more Bolly Polly?

  12. 12
    An honest capitalist says:


    There can be no justification of capitalism if it just descends into massive fraud

    That is what happened on Wall Street and the City of London as the current court cases are proving

    And to think that these same banksters expected the ordinary people of the US and Britain to bale them out while they still paid themselevs oscene bonuses is beyind the pale

  13. 13
    john in cheshire says:

    Ad hominem spite. Isn’t that what polly wolly doodles all the day?

  14. 14
    Socialists = Sociopaths says:

    ‘Ad hominem’ is an attack on a MAN. ‘Ad feminam’ is an attack on a WOMAN.

    Either Pollytwaddle is a man or a silly bitch.

    Audience, on your keypads, all vote NOW !

  15. 15
    What a scandal says:

    This scandal arose because the regulators in the US and the UK were captured by the banksters

    And they captures the US and UK fgoivernments staring with Clinton and Blair (Robert Rubin deregulating etc and the UK Goverment and FSA turing a blind eye to everything)

  16. 16
    Jimmy says:

    “Guido asks, why is progress towards social democracy an “I will if you will” deal?”

    Fairly obvious I would have thought but if you’re still struggling with the concept next time you’re splitting a restaurant bill suggest one person pays part and the rest do a runner.

  17. 17
    capt apollo says:

    why oh why do the left like to describe themselves as “progressive” when much of what they advocate is regressive? For example as we saw with the last government loss of personal freedom, greater state control and surveillance, trapping individuals in state sponsored poverty, wrecking the educational system and the futures of many etc etc.

  18. 18
    Trader says:

    Women in the trading rooms would lead to even more abuses

    have these writers ever even been in a trading room ?

  19. 19
    Anonymous says:

    Nothing to stop her providing her services via a labour co-operative. She could invite the other journalists and workers at The Grauniad to join her in the co-operative. That would sort the disparity in pay.

  20. 20
    Dr Spock says:

    Polly’s real problem is penis envy, as Freud would have said

    She os a perfect example

  21. 21
    Anonymous says:

    The reason there are few women in trading rooms is because they’re crap at it.

    You think banks care who makes the money?

  22. 22
    Fred the Shred ( knighted by Gordon Brown ) says:

    They realised that Gordon Brown had forgotten to regulate the investment banks as he was too busy

    a) Taxing their super profits and mega bonuses.
    b) Opening the London branch of Lehman Brothers.
    c) Knighting dodgy Scots for services to banking.

  23. 23
    Billy-one -house says:

    If polly is only on £120K how did she get her property portfolio?…maybe the tax man should re evaluate her contributions to date.

  24. 24
    Taxed too much says:

    Polly says she doesn’t pay enough tax.

    I pay far too much tax.

    Polly, if you would care to write out a cheque to HMRC for what you think you ought to pay, say a million quid, you will feel much better. If I have a million quid tax refund, I would feel much better. So Polly, if you make the cheque out to me instead, we can cut out the middle man and we’ll both be happy.

    I think that’s what is called a win:win situation.

    PS I would prefer a CHAPS payment direct into my account rather than a cheque. Thanks.

  25. 25
    I don't need no doctor says:

    Toynbee, you are nothing but a hypocrite. Toynbee along with Will Self play at being socialists. Fucking arseholes, both of them. Neither have done a decent days work in their lives. I could write better shit than either of them.

  26. 26
    genghiz the kahn says:

    She could offer to improve the lot of others by closing down her media work, putting her pen down and going into retirement.

    She and others of her ilk are happy to enjoy their wealth, privileges and contacts whilst making damn sure that others who have talent cannot reach the top. It does take an absolute genius with only one A level to get into Oxford, and not drop out.

  27. 27
    Alyingstare Darling says:

    Let’s not forget Gordon’s close connection to the rating agencies: both were standard poor and moody.

  28. 28
    Gordon Brown says:

    Do as I say, not as I poo.

  29. 29
    AC1 says:

    > Why Can’t Progressives “Be the Change They Want to See”?

    Because Marxist taxation lowers wages for the poor (i.e. the ratio of wages is fixed post-tax, so lowering the rich’s wages lowers the wages of the poor. then they use the money extorted from the productive to encourage people to not work.

  30. 30
    I don't need no doctor says:

    Good point. Just what have they done in their lives apart from write shit. None of them have done a decent days work.

  31. 31

    That is pretty much Guido’s understanding of social democracy/the welfare state, the hard working feed the feckless who stick them with the bill.

  32. 32
    Roger moore and moore is 34 says:

    If she were younger I would ” flip” her like a good tax dodging socialist
    Right on her face then fuck her up the arse like they do to us

  33. 33
    AC1 says:

    Hit Polly Where it’ll hurt her most.

    We need advice from the father of Capitalism

    Ground-rents are a still more proper subject of taxation than the rent of houses. A tax upon ground-rents would not raise the rents of houses. It would fall altogether upon the owner of the ground-rent, who acts always as a monopolist, and exacts the greatest rent which can be got for the use of his ground. More or less can be got for it according as the competitors happen to be richer or poorer, or can afford to gratify their fancy for a particular spot of ground at a greater or smaller expense. In every country the greatest number of rich competitors is in the capital, and it is there accordingly that the highest ground-rents are always to be found. As the wealth of those competitors would in no respect be increased by a tax upon ground-rents, they would not probably be disposed to pay more for the use of the ground. Whether the tax was to be advanced by the inhabitant, or by the owner of the ground, would be of little importance. The more the inhabitant was obliged to pay for the tax, the less he would incline to pay for the ground; so that the final payment of the tax would fall altogether upon the owner of the ground-rent.

    — Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations, Book V, Chapter 2, Article I: Taxes upon the Rent of Houses

  34. 34
    AC1 says:

    Tony Benn would be skint too.

  35. 35
    AC1 says:

    IPPC != IPPR

  36. 36
    Fuck 'em All says:

    So if its I will if you will, its only done with your consent.

    So how do you withdraw your consent?

    Ah yes, they will kick your door in to get their hands on your money.

    There is no fucking consent bar leaving the country.

    So what do fuckers like here say when people like Phillip Green or companies leave the country? Yep complain that they are bastards.

  37. 37
    AC1 says:

    Don’t forget. Income taxation (& Sales, profits, employment and Stamp-duty) are a form of %age slavery, which harms comparative advantage.

  38. 38
    Fuck 'em All says:

    New taxes solve nothing.

    Taxes and politicians are the problem, not the solution.

  39. 39
    AC1 says:

    A slave similarly consents until he escapes the plantation.

  40. 40
    Fuck 'em All says:

    Bank bailout costs – 70 billion – most of which is Brown not charging enough in insurance and trading in bank shares. Far worse than gold.

    Meanwhile government debts, 7,000 bn, and that doesn’t include bailing out the chavs when they reach 66.

    Who are the criminals now?

  41. 41
    Jimmy says:

    For someone with such a relaxed view about their own bills in the past, doesn’t that count as hypocrisy?

    Hard working? It’s a blog for heaven’s sake.

  42. 42
    Dave Figgley says:

    Ha ha, mate. Seriously? “The home in London worth a million-and-a-half, the house in the country, the villa in Italy blah …”

    I’d never heard of her until I come on here, FFS. I, too, write bollocks that very few people read yet the Figgley property empire comprises a council semi in Hemel. *Note to self: must up the output, Figgers.*

  43. 43
    P. Mandevilson, the Eminence Greasy says:

    We on the Left talk the talk; we never walk the walk.

  44. 44
    Roger moore and moore is 34 says:

    fraud had spell check

  45. 45
    Mornington Crescent says:

    Love your latest tweet, Guido:
    “Leftie Lisa Nandy MP on Wigan train demanding a quieter carriage – she’s in First Class anyway. Up the workers.”

    Stupid bint. Were fellow passengers singing “tits oot for the lads”, by any chance?

  46. 46
    AC1 says:

    Adam Smith says get rid of all the others.

    Tax what the state creates, i.e. its monopolies (Land Rights, Patents, Copyrights).

  47. 47
    AC1 says:

    Jimmy, only a foolish marxist can confuse effort with productivity. Learn some Tao.

  48. 48
    c.eng says:

    You do wonder what motivates La Toynbee. She obviously has no rapport with what’s left of the working class, benne scroungers and ‘travellers’. I mean can you imagine her down the pub, with ‘Ad hominem darlings’.

    I guess what motivates her are the usual human drivers, greed, power, and the ugh sex in her case. And you’ve got to admit she’s done pretty well out of it.

    The problem is there are so many berks out there who actually believe the crap she puts out. Difficult to understand why so many fellow citizens are such dupes, or maybe not.

    Just like the prisoners in the Soviet Gulags who thought if only Uncle Joe knew of their plight he would have saved them when in reality it was he who put them there. There must be a Latin phrase to describe it all, but that was one O level I had to abandon.

  49. 49
    Anonymous says:

    Guido – you miss the real trick here….

    She needs to show she pays the full whack of tax – and simply declare how much tax she pays a year – and that she is not seeking to reduce or avoid any tax whatsoever, that she is not using accountants to be efficient

    With so many houses, and so much money – she just needs to show that she paid 100% of the tax she is due – and avoided nothing. then she can crow…..

    If on the other hand – she has an accountant – who manages to ensure she is tax efficient (ie. avoiding some or any tax) – the hell mend her.

    we now know she on £110,000 – ok so how much tax did she pay ?

    dig dig dig

    is she guilty – or an inocent who bleats about the poor and unfortunates in society from her three house – and millionaire pad

    i like having millionaires in cabinet…. but the tory ones seem better than the labour millionaires..

  50. 50
    Tolly Poynbee says:

    OK Fawkes, you win, I am donating 2 of my houses for social housing and will henceforth give 90% of my earnings to the government. Now I am a practising progressive.

    If this doesn’t happen you can call me a two faced hypocrit.

  51. 51
    Johan says:

    Only posting to say how thoroughly I agree with this article. Thanks.

  52. 52
    Marshall Mathers says:

    I’m Slim Shady
    Yes I’m the real Shady
    All the other Slim Shadys
    Are just imitating
    So won’t the real Slim Shady please stand up
    Please stand up

  53. 53
    Anonymous says:

    If the charges on property increase then rent will also increase. It isn’t rocket science?

  54. 54
    Ewanme says:

    Hiya , thingy x

    The reason we ain’t on the floor is coz we got better things to do , darlin .

    For instance , I quite likes pickin my nose .

    E x .

  55. 55
    jgm2 says:

    Polly will be referring to the 120K she takes as ‘pay’.

    There’ll be any number of other ‘tax-efficient’ mechanisms whereby she could get far more cash from her employer. Bonuses. Pension contributions. ‘Expenses’. Or billing for her work via a company of which she’s a major shareholder and then awarding herself dividends at 20% instead of pay at 52%.

    Of course I’m sure Polly doesn’t do that. But it would be entirely legal.


  56. 56
    Anonymous says:

    You do seem to get about Dave

  57. 57
    Anonymous says:

    That would probably pay for half a hospital and a couple of traffic lights.

    Personally, I don’t mind paying taxes – it’s the waste and inefficiency I object to.

    When Smith said ‘no taxes’, he didn’t seriously mean that citizenship would cost us nothing….

  58. 58
    MrAngry61 says:

    Read the posts of “Posh Bird”. Admittedly currency traders, but probably representative.

  59. 59
    Tachybaptus says:

    ‘Ad hominem’ means an attack on a person of either sex. _Homo_ means ‘human being’, like _Mensch_ in German. An attack specifically on a man would be _ad virum_.

  60. 60
    jgm2 says:

    Polly’s version is where she insists we all go to the restaurant and pay for her share of the bill.

    My version would be to eat at home for a fraction of the price and not invite Polly at all.

  61. 61
    AC1 says:

    So your landlord charges you less than he can get away with?

    He willingly gives up income he could charge?

    No. Landlords charge the most they can for renting the property. Rents ONLY rise with increased income to fund them.

  62. 62
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Jimmy. For your analogy to work, the dining group would have had to be coerced into a restuarant serving food they didn’t like with people unknown to them. They would have to pay before eating, there would be no choice of menu, and the restaurant owner would demand more money half way through the meal, backed by legal force.
    If I want to support a charity, I do not make my support dependent on everybody else supporting it as well. If I go shopping, it is not on the premise that everyone else uses the same store. When I decide that I wish to live my life according to a political doctrine, I do not expect everone else to be forced into following my example. Beacause, dear Jimmy, “I will if you will” in Lefty-speak means,”I will force you to do things my way”. So bugger off and live you life your way, and leave the rest of us in peace to do things our way. It’s called freedom of choice – something, the Left don’t understand.

  63. 63
    jgm2 says:

    Polly’s version is where she insists we all go to the restaurant and pay for her share of the bill.

    My version would be to eat at home for a fraction of the cost and not invite Polly at all.

  64. 64
    Charmed, I'm sure says:

    Have your nasal excavations brought many economies to the verge of collapse?

  65. 65
    AC1 says:

    She was the inspiration for the Character Diana Moon-Glampers in the short story

  66. 66
    Jack Dromey (Ms) says:

    Waste of time trying to make a lefty see sense. They’re put together differently.

  67. 67
    Anonymous says:

    So if the majority of rent is diverted to pay taxes and/or charges then landlords will keep rents the same and carry on in business for the common good?

    This seems a childish argument?

  68. 68
    AC1 says:

    It would raise considerably more than tax currently raises.

  69. 69
    Jack Dromey (Ms) says:

    An erudite dabchick! Wot next?

  70. 70
    Anonymous says:

    If that’s true, then how are we better off? Money isn’t made out of thin air.

  71. 71
    Ichabod says:

    What I find depressing is that this miserable, second rate scribbler, of no discernible outstanding merit, could yet qualfiy to be one of the countries top 1% earners. What does she owe to her success ? I suppose the answer is in the name—it’s the hereditary principle.

  72. 72
    Elsie Beattie (83 and a quarter) says:

    Put her in the guard’s van, dear.

  73. 73
    Mercian says:

    Well done Guido. Keep exposing these hypocritical bastards. If she wants to give money to poor people she can start with me.

  74. 74
    Aunt Hilda says:

    well demolished Guido

  75. 75
    Jimmy says:

    Nonsense. Nowhere does she suggest she does not pay a share of the bill. She merely states she is not willing to be the only one making a payment as that would not be effective in settling the bill, unless of course she paid the entire bill which of course would make you, not she, the freeloaders.

    The focus on hypocrisy is wrong in any event. A murderer who decries murder may be a hypocrite but his argument is correct, only his behaviour is not. As LaRochefoucauld reminds us, hypocrisy is merely the homage that vice pays to virtue.

  76. 76
    the old Dufflebag says:

    tories generally carry wealth better than labour

  77. 77
    Raving Loon says:

    It’s also sad how many so called progressives would rather vote for an empire building pro-war statist than a limited government conservative who is anti-war.

  78. 78
    Long Time Lurking Laffer says:

    So taking my lead from Polly’s point about tax being collective and an “I will if you will” deal, I have decided to evade all taxes until they come down to the biblically ordained tithe – 10%.

    I suggest all of you do the same, if they cut taxes to 10% we’ll call off the taxpayers’ strike.

  79. 79
    jgm2 says:

    I’m still not inviting Polly to dinner. She can fuck off to Mosimann’s on her own and pay her own bill.

  80. 80
    Productive chimp says:


    You miss the real trick here…

    She needs to come to terms with her own psychological make-up. Looters like Toynbee subconsciously relish the prospect of impoverishing others, both rich and poor alike. It is a misdirection of their selfish nature which comes from 50 thousand years of evolution as a social animal. Capitalists generally recognise the greedy/selfish traits in themselves and others and they accept it. A man is a man, after all. Toynbee’s yearning for a Socialist Utopia is nothing but inhumane wickedness.

  81. 81
    joescotus says:

    Oh polly you really are dreaming in cookoo land …go up to glasgow and engage with “the torn arsed brigade” as the blessed john smith descibed his constituents ….i remember reading you every week declaring brown must go ..brown must stay brown must go… brown must stay he saved the world on that faux pax alone ..fuck me polly he,s supposed to understand what it means to represent 60 million people …..kirkaldy or wherever the fuck he supposed to represent must be full of red rosseted monkeys…..95 % of politicians do not give two monkeys fucks about you..but apart from shooting your local mp encourage les au..ect what can we do ?

  82. 82
    Mrs Beekeeper says:

    All Socialists want more for themselves and less for you. They certainly don’t want to share your lifestyle and they have an absolute horror of actually doing any real work.

    That’s why they strive to keep the working class down and working. Saves them having to do it.

  83. 83
    Mrs Beekeeper says:

    They like to think of themselves as “progressive” because they live in a fantasy world.

  84. 84
    Polly Twatabee's ivory tower says:

    FFS Guido
    Can you at least give us an option as to whether we wish to display the mugshot of the stupid hypocritical witch bitch.

    I have to clean the vomit of my keyboard now.

  85. 85
    Productive chimp says:

    Polly wants YOU to be poorer than HER. There are two ways she can achieve this: a) she can manage her tax affairs while telling you not to, or b) reduce your *income* by, oh I don’t know, asking the State to tax YOU more. Either way she keeps the houses.

  86. 86
    joescotus says:

    maybe its a sign of the times……. imagine….1940 ..gordon brown “never in the ” FUCK OFF AND DIE cameron,,, england expects every man…YOU FUCK
    OFF AND DIE AS WELL tony blair ,,45 minutes to mass d..i mean government
    is tough but leadershipwise why is the bar so fucking low?

  87. 87
    Productive chimp says:

    Some animals are more equal than others. I should know.

  88. 88
    Polly Twatabee's ivory tower says:

    pollyipocrite = “taxes are only for little people”

  89. 89
  90. 90
    MrAngry61 says:

    Actually, as a landlord (boo! Hiss!) I’ve never charged to the limit of the market. I’ve ALWAYS preferred to try to select good tenants, and charge ~5% below market rates to keep them.

    It also reduces void periods…

  91. 91

    So, Polly, who earns more, so is in a better position to give more, won’t, until everyone gives more.

    That’s her reasoning?

    So how does she explain the tax advantageous accounting and hedge fund investments of GMG?
    They’ll stop avoiding paying higher taxation if everyone else will?

  92. 92
    Regressive says:

    She’s a minger too, innit?

  93. 93
    HandsomeDavid says:

    Now we are all poor and moody.

  94. 94
    MrAngry61 says:

    Not the real M & M – no ****ing swear words

  95. 95
    MrAngry61 says:

    Name one limited government conservative who is anti war. Ron Paul doesn’t count.

  96. 96
    Cameron is a Cunt says:

    so where’s the analysis of the latest government u-turn then?

  97. 97
    Jack Dromey (Ms) says:

    They also describe themselves as “liberal”, when most of the policies they pursue are deeply illiberal. The instant reaction of a “progressive” is either to shout down and demonize an opposing view, or simply to ban whatever it is he disapproves of. The smoking ban is a prime example. Next up for the treatment are drinkers, then it’ll be the fatties’ turn. Having nationalized healthcare, the Left think they have bought the right to tell everyone how to live their lives.

    There is something wrong with them. Normal people aren’t like that.

  98. 98
    pintandapisstheorist says:

    Methinks that Polly’s fling with the Twitter plebocricy could yet be her Ceausescu moment!

  99. 99
    Anonymous says:

    If we all waited until EVERYONE did the the ‘right thing’ then very little would improve?

    Isn’t her argument about the principle, not the practicality?

    If poverty upsets her so much then she can make some difference herself, in whatever small way.

  100. 100
    Gordon 'Get The Fucking John Bull Kit Out & Print More Notes' Brown MP says:

    ”Money isn’t made out of thin air.”

    You could of fooled me

  101. 101
    MrAngry61 says:

    Polly ‘pledges’ to pay more tax if everyone else has to – but GMG pays as little tax as possible whilst regularly criticising other individuals/organisations for paying less than their ‘fair tax’.

    Polly has a dream – but GMG are just hypocrites.

  102. 102
    HandsomeDavid says:

    The BBC spend 75% of their newspaper job advertising budget with the guardian.

    Proves that the BBC wants to attract readers of a left wing rag to its left wing workforce. Proves that the BBC has a political agenda that is of one persuasion only.

  103. 103
    Anonymous says:

    When I realise I am wrong I change my mind.

    What do you do?

  104. 104
    MINES-A-PINT says:

    Polly Toynbee can never and will never EVER be able to represent the poor and vulnerable in society. Rich so-called socialists like this woman make me want to vomit. In fact pretty much all of the Labour Party is made up and run by people like this. They have absolutely no fucking idea whatsoever how the lower half of society lives. In fact it is an insult for someone with so much wealth to claim she knows what its like for someone to struggle with ever increasing costs of living and suppressed wages. It maddens me when so-called socialists like this claim to speak for the down-trodden and poor of society when they themselves have NEVER exeperienced anything remotely like it themselves. I meet people like this everyday. They come from wealthy privileged backgrounds and just because they stayed in some shithole part of town for a week or two they think they know whats best for those poor bastards trapped in a cycle of low paid insecure jobs due to high immigration and reliance upon benefits to top-up the shit wages just to make ends meet. They think they know whats best – all from the safety net of their wealth and privileged lifestyle.

    Environmentalists are another group cut from the same cloth – mostly wealthy rich people telling the rest of us to be poor to save the world while they continue a life of jet-setting wealth and privilege.

    We currently have socialism for the rich and unbridled capitalism for the rest of us.

    Toynbee and her kind can just all F*CK OFF!

  105. 105
    Productive chimp says:

    If you think what happened on Wall Street or in the City was capitalism, you need to brush up on your Italian history. The economic environment we have been in for a while is best called corporatism AKA fascism. We are so far way from free-market capitalism, it isn’t even funny. Keynesian economists, ‘third-way’ socialists, ‘progressive’ conservatives and the Wall Street/City bankers deliberately engineered the current situation. If they can successfully blame ‘capitalism’ and the public buys it, they will have pulled off the perfect heist.

  106. 106
  107. 107
    HandsomeDavid says:

    And Cameron gets repetative Bullingdon questions from BBC interviewers. Serves him right the spineless wonder.

  108. 108
    Productive chimp says:

    If you think what happened on Wall Street or in the City was capitalism, you need to brush up on your Italian history. The economic environment we have been in for a while is best called corporatism AKA fascism. We are so far way from free-market capitalism, it isn’t even funny. Keynesian economists, ‘third-way’ socialists, ‘progressive’ conservatives and the Wall Street/City bankers deliberately engineered the current situation. If they can successfully blame ‘capitalism’ and the public buys it, they will have pulled off the perfect heist.

  109. 109
    joescotus says:

    am really getting desparate guido. how many pair of urine proofed underpants do you feel i should order in preparation when finally johann hari gets convicted , sentenced to be fucked into the daylight of reality that the rest of us live in ……is the delay to let the liberal lefty cancer cook up one of their…. he’s a child of the times!. et al .. im sorry to say i wish the Hunt harm extreme(did he ever do a peice on dr. david kelly?) but only because he is part of the lefty scum that rises to the top its a culture thing owerr, innit!

  110. 110
    Jack Dromey (Ms) says:

    IMO her real problem is that she is a silly, deluded woman surrounded by other delusionals who daily feed and reinforce her delusions. Her whole life has been featherbedded; I wonder how she would cope after even a few hours at one of the badly paid, menial jobs forced upon working-class women by her and the rest of the Gramscian sisterhood. Ever worked on an assembly line, Polly? Cleaned bogs? Emptied commodes in an old folks’ home? Done an eight-hour shift in one of Amazon’s warehouses, then come home to the cleaning and cooking?

    And she has the temerity to tell the rest of us what to think and how to live.

  111. 111
    AnonymousInBelfast says:


    In my constituency the local socialist workers’ party candidate always makes the same pledge that he will live on the living wage and any other portion of his income will be donated.

    I don’t vote for him, but I do respect him for being willing to live in the conditions that he advocates for others.

    As somebody who lives in a very very poor area, with very little money, I am tired of rich individuals like La Toynbee constantly harping on about what’s best for those of us lacking their obscene privilege, when they are unwilling to live at the levels they so happily proscribe for a great many people.

    Her solidarity is not merely pointless, but ineffective. By her own admission, she is symptomatic of the problem that she claims to want to solve, and yet is unwilling to do anything that might have a personal cost.

    Perhaps this is because she knows, deep down, that without the privilege afforded by her background, she would be left with 1 A-level and virtually no employability. In other words, exactly like a great many people who live on my estate. Why should she revel in absurd pomposity when they grovel in poverty, and still be permitted to masquerade as the people’s champion?

  112. 112
    All politicians and people like Toynbee are CUNTS says:

    See above.

  113. 113
    AC1 says:

    Wealth is created through comparative advantage. By lowering the (both private and public) taxation that harms this we will be wealthier. It’s all pretty straightforward non-keynesian economics.

  114. 114
    Polly Toynbee says:

    Don’t do as I do, do as I say!

    Socialism is Freedom!

  115. 115
    AC1 says:

    Well Mr Angry (I don’t mind Landlords that do a good job) you’ve maximised your profits by lowering your risks… no problem there. You’ve still chosen an approach to renting that is bounded by the market limit.

  116. 116
    wet nurse says:

    @65 – that and being born with a canteen of silver spoons in your gob!

  117. 117
    Godron Brhoon says:

    I built a socialshit paradise, – my friend Kim said so!

  118. 118
    Spineless Wonder says:

    Oh I say!

  119. 119
    Polythesis says:

    Here we have the new elite highlighted perfectly, their stunning hypocrisy and their double standards. Money corrupts everyone but themselves it seems, it seems they labour under the illusion that only they can enjoy their riches because they have a socialist conscience? This ugly new breed of parasite unable to create wealth choose to steal it from others, seek to place themselves above us as some kind of higher moral court while taking over the roles of that other breed of rich arrogant parasite with ease.

    The simple truth of it is they need an excuse, a balm for their conscience and peddling their class hatred places them above and beyond reproach but what better way to hide the guilt and shame of being wealthy than to condemn others of the same ilk. We look at this new rich elite, we see their hypocrisy as they lavish luxuries upon themselves as they attempt to justify themselves and their actions.

    What better way to hide their own shame than to point the finger of condemnation at others, what better way to hide their own hypocrisy than to promote themselves as the nations moral conscience? The reality is very different of course, we can see it clearly whereas they are blind to their actions. They tell themselves that they deserve all the luxuries of life denied to most of us because they tell themselves they champion the poor, they lie. The lie to themselves because the truth is so very unpalatable, they lie to us because they cannot admit the truth to themselves, an ever decreasing circle.

    Private schools for her and her friends but not for others, private healthcare for her and her friends but not for us, a multimillionaire lifestyle for her and her friends while professing a love for the poor and downtrodden masses. F*ck off Toynbee you rich prick, hide your shame behind a screen of lies. Whats the difference between a rich bankster and Polly Toynbee? Both are scum who live off the misery of the poor.

  120. 120
    God is an Englishman. says:

    Nailed the bitch!

  121. 121
    CHRIST ON A BIKE! says:

    All privilaged lefties think that the nasty rules and regulations, that they want to inflict on everyone else, don’t apply to them, because they are special and enlightened.
    Higher taxes and progressive policies are a way of punishing the ordinary folk who don’t agree with them. If you are a lefty like Toynbee, you’ll be able to get round the bits you don’t like by using your money and influence. If a non-lefty tries it, they get slagged of being evil baby-eating nazis.

    The main problem that the voices of the Left have, is their obvious and stinking hyprocrisy.
    Politics is a game for the privilaged middle-class, and middle-class lefties want what middle-class righties want, i.e big houses, good schools and the best for their offspring etc.
    The Left will always fall down on their inability and unwillingness to practice what they preach. The likes of Toynbee, Labour Party members, the BBC etc. will never be able to do sack-cloth and ashes.

  122. 122
    'ere's a laff then! says:

  123. 123
    My Lord Kinnockio of Mouth'nAyre says:

    Now look you boyo, – you just sit in front of that there pickt-chure and LEARN sonny boy, – learn about what brains and talent look like!

    I should know! – I look at my pickt-chure every day.

  124. 124
    6 Letters says:

    Thats all you said.

  125. 125
    AC1 says:


  126. 126
    Clarence says:

    Polly Toynbee? Progressive? How does that work, then?

    She’s stuck in the 1980s, churning out the same, tired claptrap about how awful everything is, and how dreadful and appalling the rich/Tories/bankers are. Her brand of knee-jerk, statist rhetoric is not radical or progressive; she is as blinkered and reactionary as the straw-men she so regularly berates in her columns and innumerable BBC slots.

    She owes her prominence in the media entirely to her name – had she not been born a Toynbee she might have become a shop steward at the NUT but I doubt her solitary A Level would have been enough.

    She has no academic credentials whatsoever and has never run anything or created anything of any benefit to the nation. She just carps from the sidelines or proclaims mightily from her ivory tower. Had she never existed, no one would have noticed.

    She, not Guido, is poison.

  127. 127
    mikis says:

    Polly says she’ll pay more if others do he same, yet she’s more than happy to work for the Grauniad, who are content to arrange their affairs to pay as little corp tax as possible. Perhaps she could start her crusade by suggesting that the people who pay her salary also pay their fair share of tax.

  128. 128
    Sick Labour says:

    Will’s dad Jack praised Gaddafi as a brave and corageous statesman.

    Nuff said

  129. 129
    Mascarpone, I scream says:

    What does Polly want with all that money anyway? Crass materialism?

  130. 130

    Socialists are all the same. They never practice what they preach (Blair, Mandy, Prescott all jump to mind), but for some reason we put up with it and lefty voters are always taken in by it.
    Gender is the scapegoat of the banking crisis, but its a load of old tosh. The drive to make money is definately not unique to the male gender, some of the most hard headed business people are women.
    Secretly leftys know the market and the private sector is the only real way of making things work, but the public sector is ‘popular with the voters’ – basically left wing = shallow and desperate for public love.

  131. 131
    Ken Lorp says:

    Polly needs to understand that other people feel differently. I came from a lower Middle class background; I worked my ass off in school, got into a very good university and worked my ass off in my career. My success is on the back of my achievements. I do not feel guilty about this and I sure as hell am pissed off at the amount of money the government steals from me.

    If Polly feels bad about her status, she can put her money where her mouth is – put up or shut up. Don’t try to say that it’s dependent on how much I pay. As far as I’m concerned, the government is wasting the majority of what they steal from me!

  132. 132
    Ken Lorp says:

    Hey, when I last had lunch with Guido, we split the bill. I certainly didn’t feel hard done by as I ate more vegetables than he.

  133. 133
    Ken Lorp says:

    I’ll bet she’s been on her knees a few times!

  134. 134
    labourunionsbbc we are one says:

    Toynbee doesn’t love the working classes, she doesn’t even like the working classes, she only makes shed loads of money out of the IDEA of the working class.

  135. 135
    it makes me sick when politicians want us to vote for them says:

    your future is never with Labour your only hope is the conservatives despite that we are all doomed

  136. 136
    Socialsm the art of compassion using other peoples money says:

    When engaged in debate with Socialists I normally ask them how much more tax they think they should pay and then recommend that they voluntarily contribute the difference to the charity of their choice every month by means of a standing order. I helpfully point out that they have complete freedom to do this and do not require a change of Government to do so.
    They always look at me with bemusement as it invariabily becomes apparent that any tax increases they advocate are not meant to apply to them but to other “Better off ” people.

  137. 137
    Mad, Bad & Dangerous Gordon McRuin ( member in absentia ) says:

    Evacuating the contents of my head brought England to its knees

  138. 138
    labourunionsbbc we are one says:

    Well said Polythesis, and may all you gods go with you.

  139. 139
    AUNTY BBC says:


  140. 140
    Jackass Straw ( my Dad would n't fight for this Country ) says:

    What the fuck would Jack Straw know about bravery and courage ???

  141. 141
    Sir Reginald Titbrain [Decd.] says:

    She doesn’t seem overly bright.

    Complaining about an ad hominem attack when one is the subject of the attack is a new one on me.

  142. 142
    Four Lions Ch4 says:

    Hee hee. Loving it.

  143. 143
    Anonymous says:

    Dear Guido, That was a brilliant piece. Just keep it up. Many thanks.

  144. 144
    labourunionsbbc we are one says:

    Does this 110,000 polly grosses include the money she gets from her friends at the B-bbc for all those appearances I never watch?

    Or is it just for whining on at the B-bbc’s favorite paper, which I never read?

  145. 145
  146. 146
    Sir Reginald Titbrain [Decd.] says:

    This is what Peter Sissons had yo say in January….”In my view, ‘bias’ is too blunt a word to describe the subtleties of the ­pervading culture. The better word is a ‘mindset’. At the core of the BBC, in its very DNA, is a way of thinking that is firmly of the Left.

    By far the most popular and widely read newspapers at the BBC are The Guardian and The Independent. ­Producers refer to them routinely for the line to take on ­running stories, and for inspiration on which items to cover. In the later stages of my career, I lost count of the number of times I asked a producer for a brief on a story, only to be handed a copy of The Guardian and told ‘it’s all in there’.

    Read more:

  147. 147
    Anonymous says:

    I blame Oliver Cromwell and his mates.

  148. 148
    Alistair Darling says:

    As much as Gordon knows about courage.

  149. 149

    I know that its vulgar to talk about money but sod it. I earn less money than just about every leftie I have ever met. When I point this out to them and ask for a handout they tell me to shove it. In practice socialists are all fur coat and no knickers. When they are caught out as being better off they are never prepared to voluntarily re-distribute. Lets face it there is not a single website in existence where people of a socialist disposition can log in and share their income. They are all lying hypocritical bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!

  150. 150
    Bogeyman says:

    Oh that’s funny. The spider’s predatory manner bears some resemblance to Polly

  151. 151

    She should have switched her twitter off when the well known pedlar of poison and malevolence joined in her bubble puncturing.

    “Well, you started it pet!”

  152. 152

    I blame Oliver Twist.
    More! the ungrateful little benefits urchin.

  153. 153
    All I says:

    Tell you what. The Libyan revolters will regret laying off from finishing unfinished business.

  154. 154
    jgm2 says:

    And she knows it. It’s the guilt that’s eating her away and making her write the trite tripe that she comes out with.

    On the up-side, writing for the Guardian put her kids through private school. Which is nice.

  155. 155
    Bogeyman says:

    According to Polly, Guido has “devoted his life to poison and malevolence.”

    At least she can say that from a position of never having been poisonous or malevolent to anyone. Oh no, not Polly. Never.

  156. 156
    HandsomeDavid says:

    Did he say anything about his brother William who was on the sex offenders register?

  157. 157
    Boring trolls who have gone quiet. says:

    I see Labour apologist, commenter known as Moussa Koussa, has gone very quiet since its been revealed that Labour were flying in people to torture for the Libyan regime.

    You must be very proud of your labour paymasters, Moussa.

  158. 158
    Bogeyman says:

    Polly is also president of the British Humanist Association, they of the beards and woolly socks who believe the entire human condition can be improved by committee.

    It’s enough to make me want to kiss the Pope.

  159. 159
    The Liebour party says:

    B£iar ‘is godfather to Rupert Murdoch’s children’

  160. 160
    Mustapha Dumpa says:

    I think he was just pretending to be a troll.

  161. 161
    Princess Po-Face Polytwaddle, Patronising, talking down at people from her Ivory Tower says:

    I want money MONEY MONEY! because it gives me POWER over little unintelligent people like you!

    And I feel more secure, in fact I have a dread of poverty, – of being like common people. It would remind me of who I really am, and that existential loneliness that is the dread of refined and intellectually PROGRESSIVE people like wot I am!

    And what would little people do with money anyway? I simply wouldn’t have time to advise them all. No, better let Gordon – Oh! Gordon – have it all and look after it for them in his socialist wisdom.

    Answer me!

    They would WASTE IT!

    And I am always RIGHT!

    And never WRONG!!!!

    Now go away from my castle, while I write more twaddle for the bien pensant Grouniad readers, – they ADORE ME!!!

  162. 162
    HandsomeDavid says:

    You have to laugh. This makes Comical Ali look like an academic of stature.

  163. 163
    Thought for today says:

    What about a Blk v Wht Athletics games? Easy DNA test to check who’s who.

  164. 164
    so I said, ah screw it says:

    Poor Polly Twaddle getting upset because someone doesn’t pat her on the back and tell her how brilliant she is, oh dear never mind Polly Twaddle life is a bit more hectic in the lower classes , stay in La La land and just keep those rose coloured glasses on and stop pretending you know what us crap want, you don’t.

  165. 165
    Arthur Bent says:

    From my experience currency traders are the scum of the trading floor, except for those who trade the exotics book.

  166. 166
    Article 38 says:

    Excellent post

  167. 167
    lol! says:

    He really is an utter see you next Tuesday.

  168. 168
    Arthur Bent says:

    Her daddy worked in the city – some large brokerage firm of something. So it’s inherited and not earned.

  169. 169
    Displaced Brummie says:

    Guido, what Polly mocks and derides has already been done. SHE could do it, if she wanted to! It was done by Dave Nellist when he was a Labour MP.

    A long-standing supporter of the Militant tendency, Nellist was the MP for Coventry South East from 1983 to 1992. He was known for his standing as a “workers’ MP on a worker’s wage”, taking only the wage of a skilled factory worker, which amounted to 40% of what he could have earned and what other MPs took for themselves. The rest he donated back to the Labour movement and to charities.

  170. 170
    Ah! Monika says:

    You mean kiss his ring?

  171. 171
    jgm2 says:

    Same reason she’s whizzing off to Tuscany, raping the planet with her jet emissions, racked with guilt.

    So she wants everybody to stop going on holiday.

    It’s the classic Ben Elton sketch ‘Well, if they’re going to do it – I’m going to do it’. Except trendy, right-on Ben was taking the p155 out of the baby-eating Tories. Or so he thought.

    But, as his subsequent fucking off to Oz to escape the socialist shit-hole Labour created and Polly’s behaviour proves – the socialists are exactly the same as the baby-eating Tories.

  172. 172
    Father Jack says:

    Well said Polythesis, the same reason why the ‘luvvies’ and ‘celebs’ support liebour, to salve their consciences. Feck off ToynfacelikeabulldogchewingaWasp you hypocrite!!

  173. 173

    Well at least they try.
    They have “progressive ideas” designed to iron out the inequalities in society.

    Like no privileged education such as Polly and her own children..well no, not that one, ..but..
    An end to unfair tax avoidance by large corporations such as Guardian media Group, ..well no, not that one..but,how about,
    Not having private healthcare as a perk of a well paid job such as at GMG….well no, again, not that one..but,
    Employing people from all walks of life not just Oxbridge graduates such as those found at GMG….well no, not that one..but maybe,

    All women shortlists .. {ooops..sorry Jack}

  174. 174
    smoggie says:

    Like all good armchair socialists, Polly defines the “rich” as those that earn more than her.

  175. 175
    Bogeyman says:

    Yes, given an audience.

  176. 176
    Displaced Brummie says:

    Polly is already practising what she preaches. She is paying exactly the same levels of tax as the next one is!

    Sadly, as the next one is the Guardian Media Group with its handy tax havens, then Polly is clearly not paying enough in taxes.

  177. 177
    albacore says:

    Why pick on M K?
    Where has the whole gang of Lib/Lab/Con professional spinmeisters (from both sides of the pretend political divide) slunk off to?
    You’d think that, with the cornucopia of grist that they’ve had for their mills, they could have cooked up some very tasty titbits for us by now.

  178. 178
    smoggie says:

    She and her mate are a pair of parasites. That’s dandy if you can get away with it, but is it right that such types should lecture the rest of us?

    Guido, is “Jimmy” James McIntyre?

  179. 179
    fuckin' 'ell says:

    Sissons can fuck right off. He took the BBC’s shilling for yonks. He can’t escape the fact that there’s a lamppost reserved in his name!

  180. 180
    Anonymous says:

    I would give to charity or spend time helping others and be a generally all round good person, but not everyone else is – so f’ck ‘em.

  181. 181
    Call me Dave says:

    I never read intelligence papers. I always thought the UK government was against Gaddafi. I really never knew that we were supporting them, funding them and using them to torture our ‘foes’. I don’t find it hypocritical in the least that we are now killing his supporters and selling it to the country in the name of “freedom”.

    Really, I never knew and nor did Hague the Vague (he who shares rooms/beds with young SPADs to cut down on ‘costs’).

    Budget cuts at home and more money abroad!

  182. 182
    Chris Bryant says:

    I’d do both for a fee!

  183. 183
    Wild Willie says:

    Off-topic, but looks like the ‘Telegraph’ has been hacked by something called “TurkGuvenligi” – “Gel Babana”. Seems to originate in Brussels!!

    Did anyone else know that today is World Hackers Day?

  184. 184
    T.B£iar - the People's Messiah says:

    I’m just a regular kinda guy.

  185. 185
    Kevin T says:

    I would have thought that would be old by now, but it isn’t.

  186. 186
    AC1 says:

    150 million dead is only a statistic.

  187. 187
    All politicians are CUNTS says:

    The former prime minister was reportedly present in March last year when Murdoch’s two daughters by his third wife, Wendi, were baptised on the banks of the Jordan.

    The information was not made public and its disclosure in an interview with Mrs Murdoch in Vogue will prove highly embarrassing for Mr Blair.

    His close ties to the Murdochs could explain his reluctance to condemn the News International phone hacking scandal.

    In July, it was reported that he asked Gordon Brown to put pressure on Tom Watson, the Labour MP who helped expose the scandal, to drop his investigation.

  188. 188
    Kevin T says:

    Someone should intercut it with the scene in Caddyshack where they’re taking bets on whether the fat kid will pick his nose and eat it.

  189. 189
    RED ED - SON OF BROWN says:

    It claims that Mr Blair attended the Jordanian ceremony “garbed in white” and describes him as one of Mrs Murdoch’s “closest friends”

    FFS !! The man has totally lost the plot !!!

  190. 190
    AC1 says:

    Was he the Final?

    Final Straw Geddit?*

    Come on it’ll be funier than Rich and Marks effort.

  191. 191
    Kevin T says:

    Brilliant Guido, keep it up. Do Rusbridger, the 600k a year Marxist.

  192. 192
    AC1 says:

    Everyone’s fair share of income tax is zero. If you don’t own your own time then you’re a slave.

  193. 193
    nell says:

    Anyone know how to performadouche?

  194. 194
    AC1 says:

    >What better way to hide their own shame than to point the finger of condemnation at others, what better way to hide their own hypocrisy than to promote themselves as the nations moral conscience

    The psychological term for this is Freudian Projection

  195. 195
    Anonymous says:

    So is it correct to assume that Jack Straw named his son after a nonce?

    What a lovely family!

  196. 196
    Paul Clieu says:

    A person like Polly Toynbee, who claims to be convinced that paying an ever higher proportion of your income to the Government so that bureaucrats you have never met can decide how your money is spent for you – should seek ways to pay more tax. A cynic who sees bureaucrats spending other peoples money on themselves and on things that actually harm society would, indeed should, seek to minimise the tax they pay and consequently the damage to society. Therefore, her argument against paying higher taxes until her critics do is absolutely immoral and indefensible as well as rank hypocrisy. But Polly only has one A-level and failed to complete her degree in History. The evidence is that Polly is thick. Don’t forget she campaigned for Gordon Brown to replace Blair. With a track record like that she should be laughed at, not listened to. Life is too short to waste acting on the advice of deluded and stupid people.

  197. 197
    Rusbridger says:

    My hefty emoluments are within the rules. My bitch Toynbee will give you all the details should you wish to inquire further.

    Thank you for your interest in the Guardian Media Group. Your interest is important but also a huge pain in the fucking arse.

  198. 198
    Anonymous says:

    No. Wild Willie. We didn’t . You were the only one who remembered. Funny, that.

  199. 199
    A Ruder Gardenia? says:

    Didn’t Sir James Savile once stepaside from one of his BBC jobs so that a youngster could get a chance?

    Stepaside Polly. Stepaside.

  200. 200
    Bogeyman says:

    Torygraph site seems OK now – in fact it drew me to this delicious piece by Christopher Booker.

    His village cricket club has been hit with ten times the normal rates because its policy states that it is open to all, without explicitly stating that membership is open to anyone regardless of “sex, age, disability, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, religion or other beliefs”.

  201. 201
    The BBC are cunts says:

    We thought only the Tories did that ???

  202. 202
    Polly T says:

    You are totally obsessed with me Guido. Look, I know I let you blow your load over my saggy tits the once, but it was a one off. Get a life and stop buggin me.

  203. 203
    Editorial Team - BBC Ten o' Clock News says:

    Which is exactly why we hid the Brown / Darling non story fifth on our 10 o’ clock news running order this evening.

    A couple of minutes to cover something that is just ‘painful history’ is quite sufficient for a story that is far less important than Cameron’s little local difficulties up in Scotchland

  204. 204
    joescotus says:

    millionaire socialist discuss

  205. 205
    Engineer says:

    Toynbee probably sincerely believes what she preaches, but doesn’t really have much practical experience of what she’s preaching about.

    Most people of modest origins aspiring to better would rather stand on their own feet. The best things government can do to help them is remove the barriers to betterment – reduce taxes, give them back the chunk of their pension fund that Brown stole off them, make houses affordable again, cut inflation so that their hard-won savings are not trashed, make work pay. There is nobody who resents the welfare piss-takers more than the respectable working class – trying to live an honest life on a modest wage is tough, and being patronised for it by the likes of Toynbee just insults decent people.

    The sad thing is, despite her ‘sincerity’ and ‘empathy’, she just hasn’t a clue what she’s talking about, most of the time.

  206. 206
    Bollinger Bolshevik says:

    Personal life

    Toynbee married The Guardian’s political columnist Peter Jenkins in 1970 having met him at trade union conference; they had three children. Jenkins died from a lung disease in 1992. She lives in a house in Clapham, South London and also owns a villa in Tuscany, Italy.[34] Toynbee is married to David Walker, a Guardian journalist and former communications director of the Audit Commission quango.[35] Walker’s first wife Karen Irving criticised Toynbee for conducting a three year affair with her husband, suggesting it was hypocritical for Toynbee to pontificate on the moral failings of society while taking a husband away from his wife and children.

  207. 207
    so I said, ah screw it says:

    Who’s the scouse breath of fresh air on Sky News?.

  208. 208
    Paul Clieu says:

    The headline Why Can’t Progressives “Be the Change They Want to See”? is wrong.

    People like Polly Toynbee (not her real name) are not even slightly progressive. They are reactionary saboteurs who hanker after Communism despite the fact that in a very public experiment that lasted 70 years the World learnt that Communism fails so badly that massive repression of the population is required to keep control. Rigged elections, Gulags, detention of dissidents in psychiatric hospitals, secret police, fear of denunciation, show trials, millions executed, no foreign travel, internal passports that specify your allocated city and living space within that city and occupation, wide spread bribery and living standards one tenth those of the Democratic Market based economies. Nobody who advocates such policies should be called a ‘progressive.’ It is the exact opposite of the truth.

  209. 209
    Bogeyman says:

    Only a Guardian journalist could get his rocks off with that old bat.

    Christ, can you imagine it? “Oh do that again, David darling. Touch me on the Sure Start Centre.”

    (Except she probably calls him Walker, in line with the Guardian’s egalitarian surname-only policy).

  210. 210
    Disgusted, Purley. says:

    She has kids? fucking hell some dogs on heat will fuck anything that looks like a chunt.

  211. 211
  212. 212
    Fish says:

    I agree with you. Thinking back to her apearance with Dale on the Sky paper review a few weeks back it was clear that she is cognitively challenged. Dale repeatedly had to correct her and explain exactly what David Starkey actually said. Dale wasted his breath – it was clear from her bemused expression that she still didn’t get it.

    Toynbee is probably one of the worst commentators of her generation – she cannot help but sprinkle liberal doses of bile into her work. Back to the Sky paper review she just had to go off piste and have a go a Martin Sorrell about the way in which he runs his business. Sorrell elegantly put her down and showed her to be an ignorant fool who seemingly couldn’t be bothered to get her facts anything close to being right.

    But hey, when you have contacts and can apparently get into Oxford with 1 ‘A’ level, why should she care? Connections and privilige are what count in the world of Toynbee, not talent. And that’s the thing that realy gets up my nose – not so much what she earns or what tax she pays, but that despite her limitations there is always a platform for her.

    I read her piece of drivel on CiF last week and was taken aback by the surprising number of adverse comments it received being a Guardian site. There was one posting though from an adoring admirer, judging it to be a fine piece of ‘evidence based writing’. It made me laugh, that. I doubt if Polly has ever written an ‘evidence based piece’ in her life.

    Polly is a faded class war act. It really is time that she gave it a rest.

  213. 213
    Polly says:

    Goodnite guys. Enjoy your hemlock er horlicks.

  214. 214
    Batshit insane fundamentalist loon says:

    Ha. Yeah, great riposte Guido. Four days later… I’m afraid Mrs T kicked your intellectual head in on the day…

  215. 215
    Editorial Team, BBC News says:


    Thank you for this. We are very ware of this situation and have been at great pains to point out that MI6 were working with the Libyan Government until February of this year. Cleary Mr Cameron has many questions to answer on this matter, therfore and we will continue to seek answers.

    When Mr Koussa next gets in touch, please will you ask him to call the team here. We need to know how we can drag the Tories further into this shit. We are thinking of running a ‘Panorama’ special and if we can blame Margaret Thatcher, that would be even better.

    Needless to say, we have already established that the previous Labour administration knew nothing of these arrangements and have given them a clean bill of health. We will not be seeking any statements from them on the subject (unless of course they wish to tell us what they think the Tories have been up to).

  216. 216
    Fish says:

    ‘David Walker, a Guardian journalist and former communications director of the Audit Commission quango’

    Is that the same ‘Audit Commission’ that was one of the first Quangos to be wound up by Dave?

  217. 217
    Paul Clieu says:

    Perhaps she paid for the sperm and used a syringe.

  218. 218
    jgm2 says:

    Tee hee.

  219. 219
    all fucking lefty types says:

    Multiculturalism is great!

  220. 220
    Call me Dave and chums says:

    There are many ‘chunts’ in Libya. We will be paying them to continue to be ‘chunts’ too. If we aren’t paying them enough they are more than welcome to come to Britain and enrich our country even more so than it is already!

    Money abroad and depression at home is the way forward. I really didn’t know that the security services were working on behalf of Gaddafi, honest!

  221. 221
    Joss Askin says:

    Why, when idiot Gordon and sidekick Darling were behaving like utter c’unts on screen, weren’t the idiots in the print and screen MSM calling them for the c’unts they were?

    Is it because the MSM are utter c’unts too?

  222. 222
    AnonymousInBelfast says:

    It is indeed, and as per usual, she demonstrated her typical hypocrisy by ranting off about it without disclosing conflict of interest.

    See here:

  223. 223
    not a machine says:

    socialism as we so very nearly found out useually leads to some sort of police state , it was bad enough not being able to know , where our money was going let alone the expense accounts and none jobs , that is mainly why I think its wonk . The version we have had which has left us with debts and it would seem a decent share of its EU forms debts , is at base level because people voted for it , but of course they never really did understand , which you can either take as clever stuff or deliberate stupifying of the electorate.

    I wonder how polly feels that the ruin was so good he thought crisis would only last 6 months , being as she wrote such glowing praise for him or for that matter Tonys deal in the desert , on whos behalf should she appologise , her readers , labour voters , european socialists (who also perhaps have villas in sunny locations too) .

    looks like being a tough week , for some perhaps more than others . The snow plot will perhaps not make into political history , it certainly ended up being snow joke for the rest of us , if only one of them had plotted to tell us the truth that they were overspending and the banks were busted ……mmmm no would still have wanted summary trial and death penalty , just for being crap , never mind the lies .

  224. 224
    Groucho Marx says:

    Bring on the revolution of capitalism? – – global capitalism needs global governance and we don’t have it. We all live in danger of the excesses of capitalism.

  225. 225
    Nick Kaplan says:

    If, as Polly so often says, equality is a matter of social justice it follows immediately that those worse off than Polly are entitled to some proportion of her (by her standards) excessive income; what else could it mean to say that JUSTICE (rather than e.g. charity) requires redistribution? As such, her refusal to give it away (at least until it is forcibly taken from others in like position) amounts to theft by retention and, most egregious of all (certainly by Polly’s standards), theft from those worse of than she.

    Put in those terms (which follow necessarily from her own absurd views), her apparent justification for her refusal to redistribute her own income is evidently absurd, essentially her position boils down to saying that she will continue to steal from the worst of in society (by depriving them of their just entitlements) until such time as everyone else guilty of such theft also agrees to stop stealing.

    i.e. Her deluded rantings ought to be seen as a confession that she is perfectly happy to steal from the poor and to enjoy her (by her standards alone) ill gotten bounty at least for the foreseeable future.

  226. 226
    albacore says:

    Can’t understand why Polly ain’t singing Dave’s praises to the rafters. Charity don’t begin at home for Dave, oh no. The old country’s so down on its uppers that he has to borrow shedloads of what makes the world go round just to keep it limping along – but that don’t stop him giving billions away to everywhere else on the globe.

  227. 227
    Jimmy says:

    Don’t think of it as lecturing. Think of it as missionary work.

  228. 228
    Anonymous says:

    Her logic seems to go something like this…

    Polly: “2 plus 2 equals 5. Flowers need sunlight to grow”

    Guido: “2 plus 2 does not equal 5, you daft bint”

    Polly: “you’re wrong; flowers DO need sunlight to grow”

    There’s no point debating with a champagne socialist; by definition whatever they say will be utter shite.

    The U.S. and the U.K. government both have the same options: if you don’t think you pay enough tax, then you are able to give the tax man a donation of your own choosing.

    Go on Polly, lead by example; sell one of your mansions and give the proceeds to charity. Maybe if you practised what you preached once in a while instead of sitting in your ivory towers looking down your nose at the great unwashed with patronising hypocritical bullshit then some people might listen to you.

  229. 229
    Rat's arse says:

    Or his Father, the conscientious objector. He left everyone else to do the fighting in the 2nd World War, whilst sitting on his cowardly arse. In the case of that rotten coward’s son, Jack, and his grandson, Will, the apples haven’t fallen far from the tree have they?

    As for Pollywallydoodle, I am really surprised anyone takes notice of the stupid c@nt. In the grand scheme of things, she is less than nothing (if that’s possible) and thrives on media attention. Starve the cow of this, and she will die – hopefully – and very painfully – again hopefully!

  230. 230

    Forget the gender equality hypocrisy, focus on the numbers: The IPPR needs 12 directors to “lead” 8 operations staff.

    What better demonstration of the socialists’ complete inability to run anything do we need?

  231. 231
    labourunionsbbc we are one says:

    Wrong-headed thinking is at the heart of socialist thinking; for example, lefties to a man think mass immigration is fine, lefties to a man think capitalism is bad.
    Yet it is for the most part the needs of the worst type of exploitative capitalism that we have mass immigration.

    Just as they were taught that Christianity (god) was good and any thing else was bad (devil).
    Children are by and large taught by rote in state schools and collages that socialism (labour) is good, because it is for the poor and working poor, and capitalism is bad because it is for the rich (conservatives).

    This precept is reinforced daily by the B-bbc.

    For the many this is a basic truth that never needs further investigation, so when presented with a given situation they think about it in default mode. I.e. Labour/the left must be right! The Tory position (the right, often linked with the term far right, another demonised term) must be bad/wrong.

    The champagne socialist guff written by pampered polly toynbee is read by like minded by educated ‘fellow travellers’ many of who labour under the mind set of Doublethink.

    They know what she wrights is codswallop yet they believe it.

  232. 232

    What do you mean Polly doesn’t have much practical experience of how the little real people live?

    She once spent a whole week living in a council flat with only the minimum wage pon which to live. She even contracted salmonella while doing it*!

    That being said, she did continue to recieve her Guardian salary and subsequently went on to write a book and many articles for the newspapers based upon her experiences. As far as I can tell, none of the money she earned for this was voluntarily donated to the poor and needy. Nor did the Treasury receive more than they demand with menaces.

    *Then again she was pretending to work as some sort of kitchen menial for some of the time, so the injury could have been self-inflicted.

  233. 233

    That’s because they don’t feel the need to apologise for it.

  234. 234
    smoggie says:

    It seems more doggy style to me.

  235. 235
    Archer Karcher says:


  236. 236
    Simple question says:

    Is this income Net or Gross?

  237. 237
    Simple question says:

    Viz ran a very funny piece before the election – famous lefties threatening to leave the country for Denmark or other countries with higher more ‘progressive’ taxation.

  238. 238
    Simple question says:


  239. 239
    David D says:


    Stop using the expression “earned” they are paid these large amounts of money.

    There is a difference.


  240. 240
    Cameron is a Cunt says:

    Dave’s a progressive – he likes progressing the increase in taxes and people’s fuel bills

    he’s not blue he’s green – wanker!!!!!

  241. 241
    I laugh and larf! says:

    Bet she charged for the shit paper to wipe her great arse though.

    Or did she call one of the kids Salmonella?

  242. 242
    Aunt Mat says:

    All this smacks of communism.

    I work, and I earn, and I want to keep as much of this as possible, and spend it how I like.
    Absolutely no harm in that.

    As for attacking Toynbee.
    Are you not trying to kill the golden goose.
    She is a media hack just like you.
    Just trying to earn a crust!

    Now please get to work on parliament, and stop undermining your fellow hacks

  243. 243
    blingmun says:

    The problem with State education is that there’ll always be parents who feel the options provided for them by the State are crap. So for Polly to say her kids went to private schools because state schools were “crap at the time” is just repeating the argument in favour of non-State education.

  244. 244
    Anonymous says:


  245. 245
    Voice of Reason says:

    Toynbee is in exactly the same camp as Blair, Mandelson. Prescoot and many other so-called socialists, it is a similar camp shared by Bob Crow, Arthur Scargill and numerous other union manipulators. Sadly, the only people who cannot see through these greedy swines are the plebs and the uneducated lower classes of whom these swines make their obscene amounts of money from.

  246. 246
    Jess The Dog says:

    One word: Hypocrite.

  247. 247
    Samson says:

    Bit rich Pollytwaddle accusing Guido of “ad hominem empty spite..”. Even if they are remotely coherent and even vaguely intelligible, her scribblings are, at best, bilious rants and even that is being generous.

  248. 248
    Anon. says:

    If you want to quote La Rouchefoucauld: ‘Plenty of people despise money, but few know how to give it away.’

    Ms Toynbee and everyone at the Guardian?

  249. 249
    Anonymous says:

    Polly is a joy – I’ve just read her article about class and money

    In it she informs us that “Britain is adopting the American political dishonesty of disguising ever-widening income differences by calling nearly everyone “middle class”.”

    This from a toff masquerading as “middle-class” – I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

  250. 250
    Airey Belvoir says:

    No Indeed!

  251. 251
  252. 252
    Anon. says:

    Don’t forget, Blair is a godparent to one of Murdoch’s children !!! You couldn’t make it up. Maybe Murdoch is secretly a godparent to one of Brown’s sprogs?

  253. 253
    David Laws Lib Dem fiddler says:

    Perhaps Polly ought to address the travesty that Liebour brought and enhanced through Blair’s mass immigration policy. Pensioners get £106 per week after paying tax and NI. Immigrants and asylum seekers get £225 per week and contributed nothing. They get a furnished house, sometimes costing £8,000 a month when pensioners have to sell their homes to live in a care home. The are further outrages concerning spouse allowances for both groups. Waiting Cameron, waiting……… The tax payer is being squeezed to fund the continued mass immigration. Disgraceful.

    Of course Lie Dumbs Clegg and Cable undoubtedly want this to continue as part of their social mobility plan. Wipe Lie Dumbs and Polly’s socialist view off the political map.

  254. 254
    Anon. says:

    Justifying/excusing your own behaviour by pointing to other people’s – is that her level of moral conscience?

  255. 255
    Fubar Saunders says:

    Hahaha Toynbee. Fucking NAILED, good and proper.

    Stick it to her Guido!

  256. 256
    Anon. says:

    At least Dave has managed to topple a dictator without killing half of the indigenous population, spending billions of British taxpayers’ pounds, and arranging for hundreds of British soldiers to die needlessly.

  257. 257
    Fubar Saunders says:

    +100 more like, thats absolutely bang on the money.

  258. 258
    Fubar Saunders says:

    They are paid what someone thinks they are worth. As they are private companies, they can pay their workers what the fuck they want. If its over the top, its over the top. Thats their look-out and that of their shareholders too. If their shareholders cant be arsed to do anything about it, thats their look-out.

    Now, in the case of the likes of Lloyds and RBS, there is a government holding and there was also the quango set up to run them. Did the Labour lot who set this up do anything about restricting remuneration beyond saying that bonuses should be in shares and over a longer period rather than being immediate cash bonuses?

    No, they did not.


    Because unless you want the taxpayers to lose more money on saving these dickheads than what they did in the first place, you’d want them to make a profit and be returned to being viable standalone institutions in the first place. Any fule knows that. Except a plastic socialist.

  259. 259
    Jonathan says:

    Yeah, he gave up the title but not the huge house and pile of cash that came with it. As Timmy says, after you’ve paid what you owe, you can send a cheque to HMRC for any amount you like and they’ll cash it.

  260. 260
    Hang The Bastards says:

    Oxford Dictionary Definition – POLLY TOYNBEE

    Second only to the so-called Baroness Ashton as the most hated Bitch in this country.

    A woman who relishes in her wealth to pour pity on the poor.

    A hypocrite of enourmous magnitude.

    What a fucking cow !

  261. 261
    Civil Servant says:

    ‘Charity is a cold grey loveless thing. If a rich man wants to help the poor, he should pay his taxes gladly, not dole out money at a whim.’

    Clement Attlee

  262. 262
    Not quite the greatest batsman ever says:

    Lets hope Polly Threehomes doesn’t do a piece about the problems of first time buyers or the threat to our countryside by nasty developers. That really would be hypocrisy.

  263. 263
    Marcus Edwardius says:

    Perfect. You nailed her with that one. Bear in mind that she has written a book with her husband (to outline their view on the Labour years) – but chooses not to take his name. All in the cause of feminism? Absolutely not. She takes the name of her grandfather and father because its ‘money in the bank’ – the hereditary principle in name and in deed – and it clearly opened doors for her.

    “Equality for all…”

    “Social injustice is a blight on the nation…..”

    Bollocks. Polly is a scheming bull-shitter and a hypocrite. Just like most Labour grandees….

    If only the ‘dyed in the wool working classes’ would open their eyes to see how they are being conned by this bunch of stuck up prentender socialists….

  264. 264
    Marcus Edwardius says:

    The photo of her says it all really….doesn’t it.

    What does the look say to you…?

    a) “I feel your pain.”

    b) “Life is so unfair.”

    c) “Where did I put my keys?”

  265. 265
    Rufus T. Firefly says:

    But socialists ARE the “better off people”.

  266. 266
    Rufus T. Firefly says:

    She a Socialist. Since when did they have principles? Other than getting their snouts as deep in the trough as possible.

  267. 267
    Mark Wouters says:

    On a different subject, in no 10 downing street, there appear to be not one but two DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES,or should you say TWO DESPERATE HOUSEFLIES”

  268. 268
    Mr Nobody says:

    Given that I disagree with many of the ways the government and local authorities spend some of the money they have taken from me, I feel under no obligation to pay any more. Quite the reverse, in fact.

    I even stopped buying booze after getting caught speeding, another stealth tax. The course cost ninety quid, but since I started brewing all my own I’ve saved hundreds of pounds in alcohol duty alone so I ended up beating them.

    Blackberry/elderberry season is here again folks, and home-made hedgerow port is as good a wine as you’ll find anywhere…

  269. 269
    Jimmy says:

    Not at all. Let’s say some people want to go to Granita and some want to go to School Dinners. If a majority want Granita that’s where we go. Of course if it’s a tie then maybe the weird vegetarian gets a casting vote and throws his lot in with the school dinners crowd, but then no system is perfect.

  270. 270
    Chris says:

    Something clearly is amiss… maybe it’s because all the hippy Guardian types are just to nice to everyone. It would be a much better society if we were all more selfish with our money. So would it? If you paid no tax at all, and no one else did either, so we were all free to pursue our own interests without any general taxation, in a capitalist economic model, do you really believe we’d live in a wonderful country? If it’s true, then I’m all for that.

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