August 10th, 2011

Fatherless Feral Youths

Yesterday Guido tweeted that he “Would bet that the majority of the homes of those looting youths are fatherless”. Andrew Neil chimed in pointing out that “Surveys suggest that in areas like Tottenham as many as 80% families have absent/no fathers. Similar to worst ghettoes in US… Pointing out most underclass families are fatherless [is] different from blaming single mothers”. The progressive twittersphere went spare, as if this observation was somehow controversial.  

It is self-evident that the welfare state has fundamentally undermined the family, enabling and actually encouraging fatherless families to become commonplace. This is a social disaster. Welfare incentives are powerful nudges in a negative direction. Downing Street wonks should understand that “nudge theory” works two ways, not always in a positive direction.

The scale of the problem is immense, in a generation since the sixties the percentage of births outside marriage has risen from 5% to 40%. Some of those are in co-habiting couples – which unfortunately are more fragile than traditional marriages – however the majority are brought up in fatherless households. A Civitas study found that children living without their biological fathers are more likely to get into trouble at school, to have adjustment problems and eventually go to jail. Iain Duncan Smith can’t solve deep social problems with welfare reform alone. Society needs to reverse decades of failed “progressive” thinking about the family and social norms. A culture which makes no value judgements about how we raise our children is creating tomorrow’s looters and rioters.


  1. 1
    Nothing But Robust says:

    In a desperate attempt to regain credibility, the Coalition Government has banned ‘hoodies’ – emergency legislation is proceding through parliament

  2. 2

    But the bastards are also running the show now.

  3. 3
    anonymous says:

    just like the war againsta noun we have a war against clothing!!

  4. 4
    Gordon Brown says:

    i came from a very poor home and i have turned out normal

  5. 5
    anonymous says:

    hey I’m a father but I dont want any of them

  6. 6
    nell says:

    13 years of labour has seen a massive rise in a fatherless, amoral, uneducated welfare dependent underclass and now labour are trying to blame it all on coalition cuts!

    A trashed economy, a neutered police force and now this. I rather think we may be watching the death throes of labour.

    When shopkeepers have to get their families together to protect their businesses from looters and labour stalwarts like hatty harpic appear on tv trying to excuse the looters behaviour then labour has finally lost touch with our working classes.

  7. 7
    A bloke of a certain age says:

    Its the break down of the family, stupid !

  8. 8
    greasedweasel says:

    “A Civitas study found that children living with their biological fathers are more likely to have trouble at school,”

    Re-read your copy, before posting. Didn’t your father teach you anything?

  9. 9
    capt black says:

    A Civitas study found that children living with their biological fathers are more likely to have trouble at school, to have adjustment problems and eventually go to jail??? Umm..i lived with my biological father & biological mother – they were married… gave me a love for women, beer, & sport…is the Civita statement missing something, like ‘lone father households’ or ‘found children NOT living’ :)

  10. 10
    nell says:

    13 years of labour has seen a massive rise in a fatherless, amo ral, uneducated welfare dependent under cl as s and now labour are trying to blame it all on coalition cuts!

    A trashed economy, a ne ut ere d police force and now this. I rather think we may be watching the d e a th throes of labour.

    When shopkeepers have to get their families together to protect their businesses from looters and labour stalwarts like hatty harpic appear on tv trying to excuse the looters behaviour then labour has finally lost touch with our working classes.

  11. 11
    Admiral Leach says:

    This is self-evident stuff for anyone who is not blinded by the Rose (Red) Tinted classes of the Islington Sandinistas. Any child that does not have a positive male role model will always be vulnerable to negative peer pressures. This applies to ANY child.

    Unfortunately there are whole sections of our society where there is no male role model to set the limits and standards of stable social and personal behaviour. This situation is a general problem, but seems to be aggravated within certain ethnic communities because we can’t past the ‘racist’ or ‘gender’ issues.

    It was no accident that the Roman Emperor Augustus put the stability of family life to the fore and was prepared to subsidise it to ensure it.

  12. 12

    Of course many of these households don’t have a father – they can’t be in more than one place at a time.

    Perhaps we should begin thinking about sterilization programmes. Offer a one-off cash payment to mothers on benefits as incentive.

  13. 13
    Geoffrey G Brooking says:

    Another example of the Labour Legacy

  14. 14
    disgusted of provence says:

    I came from a broken home, with not one but two absent fathers, and behaved extremely badly as a teenager. I was only saved by my desire to prove I wasn’t as stupid as everyone thought I was.

  15. 15
    Mark Austin says:

    So, 80% of the children in Tottenham have no live-in father. This means that 95% or more of those didn’t riot.

    The plain fact (refer to Steven Levitt’s Freakonomics) is that single parenthood makes no difference to social outcomes. The apparent difference – and there is one – is wholly down to the fact that in the majority of cases those brought up in single parent families also suffer from a wide range of other social deprivations which wholly explain the difference. After all Princes William and Harry were brought up in a single parent family, and they were’nt out rioting.

  16. 16
    Anonymous says:

    No one single solution to this but good to see the good folk of Enfield out there last night making a stand. We need more visible public outrage at what these feral scum are doing as long as it’s within the law.

    Good to see Michael Gove show HH up on newsnight as well, according to her it’s down to loss of EMA, benefits, Cutz……………..etc.

    Does this explain that Liebour knew there were problems. couldn’t deal with them so just threw pocket money at this scum in the form of EMA just to keep them quiet.

  17. 17
    Statto says:

    Other significant statistics are that 89% of rioters have never seen a puffin, and 73% of their parents own a copy of Dan Brown’s DaVinci Code.

    Speaks for itself really. There simply has to be a connection.

  18. 18
    Jess The Dog says:

    This problem is in every British city. It’s not a racial issue, but reflects local demographics and the policy of acquiescence that ran for the last decade or two. Up here, in Scottish cities, there are some children dependent on charity to get to and from school with breakfast and dinner, because the ‘parent’ (s) are continually drunk or stoned. There are a number of lost generations and a generation that can perhaps be saved….it’s all about the children and there is nothing worse than seeing a two-year old child being pushed along by a greasy-haired fag-smoking chavette.

    Take away children from criminal or drink and drug-addled families. Place them with decent foster families and transfer all family-related benefits as well. Leave the criminal and drug-addled to sink or swim in isolated estates, with the promise of reintegration if they wish to commit to it. Offer them subsistence benefits and drugs on the NHS (cheaper than fighting crime) but only if they commit to long-term contraception and not to beget any more children they can’t cope with.

    It’s about the next generation and not the current one.

    In the meantime, break out the CS gas to send the hoodies home in tears. Their mums will kick them out for stinking the house up as well, and the cops can lift them easily enough.

  19. 19
    Anonymous says:

    sterilization, and the state deciding when we die – what has happened to this site?

    is this really libertarian?

  20. 20
    Tony Blair, Millionaire says:

    Ken Livingstone’s MultiCulti Army hits the streets with his blessing.

  21. 21
    Lord Lucan says:

    What do you expect? The welfare system rewards fat, chavvy girls to become Baby-factories to 4 different fathers as she’ll get a free house and £250 quid a week. Labour and Progessive parties like this as they are more likely to vote Labour.

    Welcome to the future. The UK is reaping the results of 40 years of a soft Welfare state. This country is f*cked. Buy Gold, tinned food and ammunition.

  22. 22
    The Stilton Eater says:

    Many of the 15 year-olds looting shops are already fathers.

  23. 23
    Anonymous says:

    These riots will be forgotten in a couple of months and the fantasy will continue. Until the next time, of course.

  24. 24
    Widescreen2010 says:

    Steady, Guido.
    That’s me you’re talking about there.
    Any more of that shit and I’ll have to prove you right by burning down your house.

  25. 25
    Mr Snrub says:

    labour’s plan was to abandon the working class vote and focus on the welfare class vote. much easier to bribe and they will riot on command.

  26. 26
    Admiral Leach says:

    Not my experience of having trained over 3000 16-20 year olds on both NCO and Junior Officer courses. Those coming from that ever rare thing of a stable 2 parent (male and female) intergrated quicker, supported their team members more and showed leadership abilities sooner. This is not to say anyone from a single parent family did not have these qualities, far from it, just that they were from what I’ve seen more to the fore sooner.

    What I have found is the most schools within the public sector are not worth money we spend on them and are a national disgrace in many areas.

  27. 27
    Benny Fitz-Clements says:

    Thankfully, the local ‘Yoof’ have not burnt down the Job Centre so I was able to sign on again yesterday afternoon. Innit, like.

  28. 28
    Christine Silverman says:

    It’s true. Out of my 14 yo’s class at school, she is the ONLY ONE who lives with both biological, married parents – and one of her classmates are already pregnant. And we don’t live in a sink estate, but a reasonably respectable area.

  29. 29
    Anonymous says:

    You seem to be saying that the abscence of a father in itself makes no difference.

    That is self evidently wrong.

  30. 30
    Socialism Ate My Future says:

    Reality comes full circle and bites the progressives in the a$$, it amazes me how naive these Proggies are. Absolutely devoid of any common sense they never see the obvious.

    Still Gove ripped Harmann a new one last night was superb.

  31. 31
    MB. says:

    Just reading a comment from someone who saw one premises with all the windows smashed, probably with no police around. In the only example of officialdom seen, the glazier’s van was being booked by a Traffuc Warden for parking outside the premises whilst repairing the windows.

  32. 32
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    Clearly they should all go and live with priests.

  33. 33
    Christine Silverman says:

    They should just spray the hoodies with that dye that they put in security boxes for transporting money. Let them walk about looking bright orange for a couple of weeks, and the police would have no bother rounding ‘em up!

  34. 34
    Little Sir Echo says:

    I think Hari will copy and paste this very soon.

  35. 35
    Anonymous says:

    A boxful of hair weaves, or vajazzles for you (or a plasma if you bring two friends).

  36. 36
    Anonymous says:

    sounds made up

  37. 37
    Grammar School Boy says:

    Not a racial issue? Are you from the BBC??

  38. 38
    martin sewell says:

    Welcome to Generation Toynbee!

    Her ” progressive” blend of post-Christian, morally relativist, non judgemental, feminist, self expressive, self regarding, cynical , anti-traditional, multi- cultural, society is revealed,

    In Alan Bennett’s famous phrase, ” The sky is black with chickens coming home to roost.”

    And it was all done to the soundtrack of that fine
    music from Charlie Gilmour’s adoptive father ( his real dad didn’t want to know) singing ” We don’t need no education”.

  39. 39
    Anonymous says:

    Re Gordon Brown says:

    August 10, 2011 at 8:28 am
    i came from a very poor home and i have turned out normal

    Utter Bollox!

    I was 1 of 3 kids under 6 when my dad died, Mum had 3 jobs to keep us fed and clothed, the difference is that women like her had pride, got on with bringing us up honest and hard working.

    She never left me money when she died but she left me with a sense of right and wrong, god bless her and women like her

  40. 40
    John Moss says:

    There is also the terrible legacy of the social/council home building programme of the 50s, 60s and 70s.

    Most of the tower blocks and “estates” were built in a way which made it very difficult for a “normal family life”. maisonettes and flats are not suitable for famlies, extended families were split up and the communal areas were the perfect congregating space for gangs.

    As families found it hard to live together in these homes they did what all humans do, they adapted and stopped living as families. This fed statistics for household formation which indicated a huge need for one and two bedroom flats for single people – and that is what largely got built by the private and housing association sector through the 80s, 90s and 00s.

    This has become a self-fuelling fire. We literally built familes out of the inner cities, then we responded with welfare structures which rewarded couples for living apart, then we failed to educate their children, then we let those children live by low-level crime.

    Now we are reaping what we sowed.

  41. 41
    Father Ted says:

    Are you back in the country Lord L? If it is so bad why did you come back?

  42. 42
    I don't need no doctor says:

    Harriet Harman is an utter disgrace. How does that woman get away with earning £65k+ a year of tax payers money?
    Labour are deliberately blind to the truth, and keep hiding behind spin and denial.
    The country knows that labour are liars. Labour just don’t get it.

  43. 43
    Spartacus says:

    The war against clothing is one thing.
    But i notice an unusual word seems to suddenly be in vogue is feral.
    I can see it now,
    – Rebellious Anti-Gadaffi Ferals take xxx.
    – The feral fourth Yorkshire battalion of shootemded
    – the iraq feral revolutionaries . . .

    Feral? Feral clothing?

  44. 44
    The Grim Reaper says:

    Since 1945 the Western Liberal Elite has imposed a Liberal Experiment on us which has demonstrably failed.

    Every day, ordinary decent, respectable, tax paying and hard working families from all backgrounds have had to endure the results of this half crazed socialist nonsense where criminals and the underclass run the schools, social system, judiciary and the streets. We dare not challenge any of them.

    The feral animals have been clothed, nurtured & fed by our taxes and the zoo keepers – BBC, social workers, judges, head teachers, music & games industries, welfare state agencies – have reared them.

    Now they have staked their claim. It’s Clockwork Orange Time in a street near you and you are the victim.

  45. 45
    Hogday says:

    Just heard a remarkable interview on BBC Radio Leeds after the 8am news. Reporter and a local looter in a place somewhere in their area. Remarkable and deserving of repeating loud and clear. Find it on the iPlayer and listen to it. Brief paraphrasing:

    “Reporter: `Why are you doing this?
    Scum teen looter: ` Cos I can get away wiv it man. I ain’t bothered. If I’m caught, this is my 1st offence, so what happens if I’m caught? Nothing`.
    Reporter: “But what happens when you get home with new goods that you’ve stolen. What will your parents do?”
    STL: “Nuffink man. What are they going to do to me? If I’m caught I’m a first offender. So I get an ASBO”.

  46. 46
    petuniabean says:

    I think it is probably the quality of the parenting that is to blame in a large number of cases, though I do think that boys need a good father figure to give them support and example as they grow up.

    It is certainly not “poverty” that CAUSES criminality. There are hundreds of families that live in so called “poverty”, (which in the majority of cases is nothing like the real poverty that existed in ages past,) there are many of these families who have great self respect and good values because they have responsible people at their head and they bring up their children really well.

    It is the greed and expectation that they have a right to possess everything – with no conditions attached – that causes criminality in a large number of thugs.

    I would have thought that real poverty would be living with the basic necessities of life but without a television, computer, mobile phone, car, etc. In this country do many people know what that sort of poverty is?

    It is unfortunate that we can blame copycat violence on modern technology – has the latter done more harm than good?

  47. 47
    Anonymous says:

    When Roman civilisation was under attack from the barbarian hordes, weak leadership, corruption and internal division led them to any lengths to try to buy off their attackers,including literally paying them not to attack.Result : failure and a prolonged dark age. Any lessons there?

  48. 48
    Gotcha! says:

    Dear god, no, not the fat cocksucking recidivist piece of shit w o g moralising again, and citing Murdoch’s shithole Sun for support. This fucker is worse than Max K*ke Hastings condemning Brits as vermin.

  49. 49
  50. 50

    The position of sub-editor is, as always, vacant and unpaid.

  51. 51
    Handycock says:

    At least I can say I did my bit

  52. 52
    Sophie says:

    Maybe rusty Dave & Boris just need to hand out more hugs?

    Progressive liberal immigration policies have been a disaster for our country, the indigenous British people & the immigrants themselves.

    The time to begin the process of reversing immigration is now – repatriation to ancestral homelands.

    The 2nd & 3rd generation immigrants have been disenfranchsied from their heritage, culture & homeland just as much as the British indigenous peoples have.

    Multi-culturalism has failed miserably for everyone – & now people are losing their lives.

    More liberalism, more immigrants & more taxpayer cash thrown at ghettoes patently will not work.

  53. 53
    Red Devil muncher says:

    Go away Red Ken and reclaim the streets for cancer man Chavez

  54. 54
    Grow up says:

    Feral is not the slightest bit unusual.It may be banned in lefty world but in the real worls the feral youth is recognised as a big big problem.

  55. 55
    Get tough says:

    There is a very simple lesson to be learned here, whenever Gordon speaks ignore him as he has nothing but utter crap to say. He has sucked on the public nipple all his life and is a complete and utter tosser. God how I loath this man – uuurrrrggghhhh.

  56. 56
    Spartacus says:

    Go live in East Cumnock for a few years.
    Then tell me if you think it is a ‘racial thing’.
    I suppose you could argue Scottish-English racial but you would be deliberately missing the point.

  57. 57
    Ed Milliband says:

    Im glad I got married in time before any flac come my way.

  58. 58
    Lee Grasper says:

    Rubbish. These riots are clearly the result of racist whites and the face of greedy capitalism and savage cuts to welfare where the poor only get gruel and £2.56 a week to live on.

  59. 59
    Father Ted says:

    From the Civitas Study

    “The weight of evidence indicates that the traditional family based upon a married father and mother is still the best environment for raising children, and it forms the soundest basis for the wider society.”

    Each family should have a Father. Bless you all

  60. 60
    Get tough says:

    Sorry about the speeling my fingers do not work as well when I’m angry!

  61. 61
    Andrew Efiong says:

    I heard you speaking on the radio yesterday. Your voice sounds as stupid after the op as it did before. Ha ha!

  62. 62
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Heard you heard? The riots have spread to Ireland! Guido Fawkes smashed his computer screen up trying to steal from eBay!

  63. 63
  64. 64
    Anonymous says:

    Fiona Phillips has just ripped red Edd to bits on GMTV a last some one with balls has gone in head first.
    The police were politicizes under the last Labour goverment Edd was completely fucked and thought it would be a easy ride interview.
    Fiona well done.

  65. 65
    Radders says:

    Also from the Civitas study: 67% of Afro-Carib kids in London are growing up without their biological fathers. But being a bastard doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll become a crim – having a single mother who’s out of work and who casually tolerates low level criminality (benefit fraud, buying stolen goods etc) herself creates a strong predisposition to crime.

    Charles Murray’s work on the underclass positively correlated an increase in violent offences to the number of bastards in a given population. And bastardy as an economic choice has been usefully analysed by John Ermisch for the Institute for Social and Economic Research – see ‘An Economic History of Bastardy in England and Wales’ at

    Essentially, for stupid or ugly girls with low prospects of marriage above their ‘caste’, bearing bastards is a rational economic choice. All the costs – economic and social – are external.

  66. 66
    Gulag for the Left says:

    Like most Left Wing Scum Gotcha is a racist moron….

  67. 67
    Spartacus says:

    Harriet Feral Harman: The Leader of the Commons in the Labour Government claimed over £10,000 for the services of media consultant Scarlett McGwire. Ms Harman, who is Labour’s deputy leader, submitted more than a dozen claims for the adviser’s help between 2004 and 2007.

  68. 68
    Jackson says:

    Don’t forget these scumbags are labours core voters In the future

  69. 69
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    My experience in recruit training mirrors yours.

  70. 70

    I’m not suggesting the state sterilize people against their will, just give them an incentive. Some of these mothers don’t know when to stop shitting out kids. Men too, offer them the snip for the price of a carton of fags and a few tins of special, see how many take it up.

  71. 71
    Get tough says:

    The death of Labour? I do hope so! At the begiining of all this New Labour figures spinning the tuition fees angle and the reductions or withdrawal of EMA now we have an about turn me thinks the word has gone out from above we need to change the party line guys!!!

  72. 72
    Gulag for the Left says:

    Crusty Dave Spart – if you think the Islamist rebels share anything in common with the thugs & morons torching people’s houses and nicking trainers…then you are a deluded nonce.

  73. 73
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    ….and very much needed.

  74. 74
  75. 75
    tube-thumper says:

    The state should make it clear that anyone having a child they cannot afford wil not be given benefits. lets face it they can get free contraceptives so where is the excuse for churning children that will grow into animals.

    Where is the insistence and susbsequent consequnces if not that children attend school and that parents take responsibility.

    Its all been said but then one gets shouted down as some sort of racist of facist.

    i wish the looters would burn all those fucking knit your own denim , tree hugging pricks

  76. 76
    Postal Vote says:

    His Noses’s Nasal Voice says:

    If I were prime minister I would point out that:
    -government spending is up on a year-ago, so government spending has not been cut as my party has been saying;
    -my party has engendered benefit-dependency with heavy means testing because we think that is a good way to buy votes; we believe in the client state and object to a law capping maximum amount of benefits you can receive at 26,000 pounds per year;
    -my party does not like opening up the schools system because the unionised teachers who vote labour should not be shown up by teachers and pupils achieving better results in a new school down the road;
    -my party has only been out of government for a year; how can you hold the currebnt government responsible for what has just happened?;
    -I was part of the previous government, but my voice was not as nasal then as it is now.

  77. 77
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    There are towns in britain where the scum are all white.

  78. 78
    Get tough says:

    Harperson – she just makes my blood boil. Is there is a more hypocritical, sanctimonious woman in politics? I don’t think so.

  79. 79
    Modulus says:

    Socialism and it ‘s acolytes have totally failed the UK. Morons like Harman, Blair, Brown et al do not understand how PC and stupid socalled equality laws have wrecked our society, but will they stand up and apolgise? I guess hell won’t be freezing over any time soon.

  80. 80
    And the Definition? says:

    Feral is not the slightest bit unusual

    Maybe not on the feral bbc

  81. 81
    Kirk Dug-Less says:

    Gordon, you are a riot! Back to work tomorrow?

  82. 82
    Nemo says:

    He’s gambling that he will not be spotted

  83. 83
    himindoors says:

    BBC 4 researcher: Yep, you can come on this morning and debate your ideas, provided they’re left of centre and you read the following line at the start –
    THIS IS NOT A RACIAL INCIDENT. Otherwise we cut you off there and then.

  84. 84
    Well said Guido . . . says:

    Surveys suggest that in areas like Tottenham as many as 80% families have absent/no fathers.

    I bet their benefits are all in place though, – as well as every other trick the Socialist Tit trained them up on.

  85. 85
    The inglish disease says:

    Are you saying those rampaging through inglish cities are Scotsmen ?

  86. 86
    Smithy says:

    That will sort the arse holes out!!

  87. 87
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    You wouldn’t be a closet Fabian by any chance?

  88. 88
    Sludge Pump says:

    Just watched the bb c news can’t make my mind up as to which was the most interesting of interviews, Michael Gove for the Tories, talking about the riots and what little people should do or the wonderful Hazel Blears talking about people breaking the law and how they should be punished! Erm that can’t include our MPs and expenses problems? Can it?

  89. 89
    Hugh Janus says:

    This is all thanks to the Toynbees of this world, those woolly-minded lefty-liberal do-gooding creeps who detest any kind of discipline or purpose being introduced into the lives of these young thugs. I hope she’s pleased with the results of her efforts and those of her similar-minded chums. She and her lot simply sicken me.

  90. 90
    Anonymous says:

    They are nicking pick up trucks and other goods from people.

  91. 91
    George Barnaby says:

    I think it’s more likely to be the people who use the word ‘feral’ of our youth that are the problem

  92. 92
    Bystander says:

    On the sink estates round here there are relatively few ‘biological’ fathers, – a few studs (usually ugly ungainly individuals) do all the ‘biological fathering’.

    The other males are either . . oh never mind . . .

  93. 93
    Hugh Janus says:

    Never mind losing touch with the working class, they have lost touch with reality itself.

  94. 94
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    There are going to be some seriously mental “what I did in my summer holidays” essays when the thugs return to school in September. Maybe that’s how the Police can track down the offenders.

  95. 95
    Bystander says:

    You mean, – the cling film didn’t work?

  96. 96
    Woody Allen says:

    I agree with Mr Gay Fawker. I too, as a good j*wish boy, believe that the father should take an active hands-on role in rearing and fucking with his children. G_d bless you, Mr Gay Fawkes.

  97. 97
    Cherie tweets says:

    Just out of Debenhams with a sackful of designer clobber. Marvellous!

  98. 98
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Did you catch the chipmunk on the news last night? Have you considered the claims of Jaquie Smith, the Eaglets, Mrs Balls? So many to choose from, so much evidence to sift through.

  99. 99
    Anonymous says:

    benefit payments should consist of free utilities and food stamps. cash should be paid as a suplement to those willing to carry out community work. needs to be done now while the iron is hot.

  100. 100
    Nemo says:

    Are you voltunteering?

  101. 101
    Anonymous says:

    It will cost £3,000 a week to lock him up. If you just look at money (like the way government does) its cheaper to let him out.

  102. 102
    Bystander says:

    Yep, – good to see the Enfield boys out in force – and determined.

    They need to be, – for when the 16,000 police go – as they must and will, – what’s is left?

    And let HaPerson try to dissuade them!!!

  103. 103
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    It could be possible for those estates and blocks to be nice places to live, if they were actually inhabited by pleasant people.
    I’ve seen places where communal areas were perfect places for mothers to congregate and chat and for the children to be playing.

    Its harder to fix than that, but I will say: yes – the streets would have had plenty of people who had lived there for decades and knew each other, making it easier for such things to thrive.

  104. 104
    tube-thumper says:

    oh dear poor poor prisoners.

    it prison ffs

  105. 105
    Cato Street Conspirator says:

    So what are you suggesting – compulsory marriage? Tempered by condoned adultery? Should suit all the ‘libertarians’ on here.

  106. 106

    If order-order and politicalscrapbook don’t iron out their differences and learn to get along, their bastard offspring will end up running amok across the internet. Think of the kids!

  107. 107
    Yeah but says:

    an orl me crack gone too!

  108. 108
    Cato Street Conspirator says:

    You still don’t understand the purpose of unemployment benefit in a capitalist society, do you? Have you heard the word ‘stabiliser’?

  109. 109
    celebrated 'French' film director says:

    Yes, I too like nothing better than being around pre-pubescent children, as a father figure, unlike those schwartzer animals, offering them guidance and stuffing my weeping schmekel in their tight anuses.

  110. 110
    Anonymous says:

    Who is cutting police numbers and closing prison? Who wants to give 50% discount to criminals? Its Cameron and Osborne.

  111. 111
    Hugh Janus says:

    My experience of a lifetime working in a similar capacity, and with the same family upbringing, tells me that you are absolutely spot on in your observations. Never mind the trendy, liberal and highly damaging views perpetrated by the Sandalistas; this is the reality, however unpleasant it may be.

  112. 112
    The Job says:

    Except for the fact that the force is made up of the people who ‘weren’t very good at reading’ when they were at school. Why else do you think they do the job?

  113. 113
    G Brown lover of Prudence says:

    I’ve finished Bottom Fishing for now. Next to save to save the world AGAIN.

  114. 114
    Let's face it says:

    majority of kids born to the ‘intellectuals’ at the BBC / Grouniad / “Unis” and other hot beds of louche socialism are bastards anyway – well, them as aren’t shi rtlifters and lez bos

  115. 115
    tube-thumper says:

    what are you smoking

    they dont go to skool

  116. 116
    The Harman legacy says:

    Feral exactly describes these children/ youths and the state should hang its head in shame for creating them. Paying and housing uneducated and unemployable young girls to become breeding machines is a disastrous policy.

  117. 117
    PeteS says:

    Again more nonsense from Guido – stay off the soap box and focus on the tittle-tattle gossip that is what you do best. The idea that there have been ‘decades of progressive thinking about the family’ is clearly ridiculous – we still haven’t put sufficient mechanisms in place to support non-traditional family structures. Much like those that rail against the ‘failed policy of multiculturalism’, as if it’s actually ever been the policy of any government in the UK…

  118. 118
    labourunionsbbc we are one says:

    Almost everyone agrees that the looting is theft plain and simple. Yet the B-bbc interviews the thieves and their ‘spokespeople’.

    If a man is caught robing a bank, he is not put on news night and asked why are robbers robbing the banks? is there an underlying problem to all villains that we can address by giving them money or sports facilaties?

    Nor do they get a tosser in who ‘knows these people’ to say it’s about the cuts or student fees, like the ‘student’ on NN last night (who was mugged off straight away by that woman).

    So why are the B-bbc ‘interviewing’ these c’unts.

    Folk and I mean folk who want Britain to remain a decent place to live, need to wake up to the fact that the B-bbc is the REAL problems.

  119. 119
    Old dog no tricks says:

    It actually took a few thousand years to appreciate this fact and the Left about 50 years to totally destroy the fundamental building block of civilisation – the family unit ! The point of having male heirs was built upon the inate ‘greed’ and ‘selfishness’ of the female of the species (well studied) along with the ‘children stay with the father on seperation’ laws – now totally destroyed. Women (as opposed to men as per current thinking) are inherently unreliable and stable in a relationship (they can pop out kids as much as they like) as men have to seek out a woman who is prepared to continue their genetic line on their behalf. The force given to male inheritance (and child rights) was never discrimination – it was what bonded the family structure.

    I could write an essay – so I’ll stop here !

    Except to say that making the ‘state’ the male parent has thrown away the need for a direct paternal link with his children. Breaking up the civilising influence of the stable family !

    Oh – and civitas has been producing well documented studies (as well as many other independant institutions) for 10 years to my knowledge. But of course the wimmins lobby has a far louder voice and tells whoppers so big, people can’t believe they could possibly be lies !

  120. 120
    Sarah twats says:

    me – john lewis my dere

  121. 121
    Anonymous says:

    And 100% of those that own The DaVinci Code did not pay for it and are unable to read it.

  122. 122
    MAD FRANKIE HADDOCK son of COD says:

    I dont know whether anyone has already posted this but
    this is the guy who set fire to Miss Selfridges and could have burnt down the whole Arndale center

    I think he should get a minimum of 20 years !

  123. 123
    Jess The Dog says:

    In Scotland, most recently in Glasgow, I have never seen anything other than pasty-white faces involved in trouble, of which there is plenty. Two of ‘em on the train this morning, half asleep, clearly on their way to court in Glasgow. White as the pure-driven snow, other than the grimy pockmarked faces. Crime and disorder is not a racial issue, it is an urban and generational issue.

  124. 124
    Mr Chips says:

    None at all. 4th Form historical analogies of that kind discredit your schooling. See me.

  125. 125
    Harry Benn's Pig says:

    She’s beyond help.
    was this another Hattie car-crash?

  126. 126
    Spartacus says:

    I saw that too.
    Particularly the Roy Hobs comment.

  127. 127
    George Barnaby says:

    not necessarily

    cleaners in Clapham have been told not to clear the rubble on health & safety grounds by the local council

  128. 128
    Postal Vote says:

    just to add:

    -why were the chinese and hindi not rioting? Are they not exposed to the so-called cuts that have not happened?

    -Labour will play a clever game next few weeks. The old guard like Harman will say the cuts are causing the riots while Miliband will play the statesmanlike fatherfigure. Each and everytime reporters should ask Miliband whether he agrees with his lower ranked party file

  129. 129
    Trapped in a socialist paradigm says:

    Hi Pete, Nice planet your on; want to come and see what it’s like living on a council housing estate?

  130. 130
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    He seems to be saying that there are plenty of shitholes in scotland.
    So for once we can all agree with him.

    I was aiming elsewhere. Now I’m no expert but the only time I’ve seen a black scouser I didn’t run, but I should have asked for his autograph.

  131. 131
    Joe Hill says:

    ‘There are hundreds of families that live in so called “poverty”… there are many of these families who have great self respect and good values because they have responsible people at their head and they bring up their children really well.’

    You mean they take their poverty without complaint and tug their forelocks to their betters. Where I come from these people are called ‘cowards’.

  132. 132
    Anonymous says:

    Slave culture was forced by capitalist; you fuck a women and move to the others. Capitalist got more slaves.

    Black men from Africa are mostly married, once from ex slave countries give a kid and move on.

  133. 133
    Silent Invasion Is Here says:

    2nd & 3rd generation immigrants have been disenfranchsied from their heritage, culture & homeland.

    If this is not their homeland, they can f-off there and rectify their plight.

  134. 134
    labour's legacy says:

    any excuse….

  135. 135
    Cyril Connolly says:

    But don’t forget, 91% of those involved have either written, or are a good part of the way through, writing a novel.

  136. 136
    Ex-Pat Alfie says:

    There is bright side to all of this …… firstly this feral scum will never, in their lifetime, contribute a penny toward public sector pensions and secondly will almost certainly bring about the diversion of other peoples contributions into more pressing needs for state and councill funding.
    “Reap what you sow” as they say.

  137. 137
    Lobster throttler says:

    I know of one who was born to a mother on benefits, he is now 45 years old and never done a days work in his life and he’s churned out at least 21 kids to 3 different slappers who are all on benefits, last month i met his mother who was with 3 of his kids, one 2 years , one 8 years and one 13 years who had her own baby about 9 months old, this could only happen in Britain.

  138. 138
    I have a cunning plan says:

    Tonight we should march the silly old bag to a beleaguered city centre, and strip her naked (the relevant PPE will be provided) and then turn her loose just as the rioters start their night-shift. This will clear the streets in a jiffy. Those who linger for more than a few seconds may well require intensive counselling for the rest of their days, but it will cure them from rioting and looting forever.

  139. 139
    MAD FRANKIE HADDOCK son of COD says:

    It’s not really Gordon Why would he post on a right wing site ?

  140. 140
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Fortunately – most of them cannot spell X – thanks to our numbed education system !

  141. 141
    Ibn Saud says:

    Only ‘self evidently wrong’ to someone who prefers their half-baked prejudices to the results of research.

  142. 142
    Elvis says:

    Would be great if Polly’s house got looted/torched. Even better if she was in it when it happened.

  143. 143
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    Now I know its a meme of one of the worst nutters round here – but what about Ireland?
    Surely theres time to save them, with a bit of effort you could get divorce re-banned.

  144. 144
    Solitaire says:

    I assume the jury is still out on that one.

  145. 145
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    that was supposed to go at the end of the page. where the box i typed into was.

  146. 146
    Anonymous says:

    Clever boy! That your idea or did you read it in a text book?

  147. 147
    Gentleman Ranker says:

    And what proportion came from children’s homes?

  148. 148
    Anonymous says:

    We have created a country where a lot of women are better of being a single mother.

    rent paid or contributed to on a house orflat, cheap child care to allow them to spend afternoons shopping/boozy lunch or making new babies, benefits and then csa off the bloke if he is stupid enough to work or stay in the UK

    You wonder why the country is falling apart, started in the early 90s so 20 years of useless tories/labour and now this con/lib mess

    Leave now if you have a chance.

  149. 149
    13yearsof labour "click" 13 years of labour "Click" 13 years of labour "Click"13 years of labour "Cl says:

    Squawk 13 years of Labour Squawk millitwit Squawk twotson Squawk alicampbell
    Change the boring record !

  150. 150
    Hugh Janus says:


    May I add the word ‘subversive’ to your otherwise impressive list?

  151. 151
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Another urban myth is born.

  152. 152
    labourunionsbbc we are one says:

    Haven’t you heard of the Information economy?

    How would the telecommunications industry make their billions?

    No, we need half-wits to be able to pay them to talk into little pieces of plastic all day.

    So they (the imports and uneducated nationals) need to be given money to do this.

  153. 153
    Cato Street Conspirator says:

    It’s a well-known fact that 95% of the rioters are Guardian readers and surveys show that the Toynbee column is the first one they turn to. Twerp.

  154. 154
    State sperm Banks. says:

    Typical lefty. You refuse to see the bleeding obvious. These riots are not a political statement they are kids gone wild ie feral kids. They have been created by the welfare state. The welfare state has created monsters.

    Just throw money at something and everything will be all right is the mantra of the left. We saw it for the last decade, as long as they pumped money into a crisis the lefties could feel justified that they were making things better. No checks no balances as to how the money was being spent.

    Tell me o lefty one how is society a better place for creating tens of thousands of state funded young women who are no more than sperm banks for the local menfolk?

  155. 155
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    That isnt even a riot is it? Some of those people were just walking past getting on with everyday life.

  156. 156
    Hugh Janus says:

    You missed the best bits:

    “In January 2009, Harman proposed a rule change to exempt MPs’ expenses from the Freedom of Information Act. Her parliamentary order aimed to remove “most expenditure information held by either House of Parliament from the scope of the Freedom of Information Act”. It meant that, under the law, journalists and members of the public would no longer be entitled to learn details of their MP’s expenses. Labour MPs were to be pressured to vote for this measure by use of a three line whip. Her proposal was withdrawn when the Conservative Party said they would vote against, and an online campaign by mySociety. The failure of the motion led to the disclosure of expenses of British Members of Parliament.

    In December 2010 it emerged that Harman was amongst 40 MPs who had secretly repaid wrongly claimed expenses between 2008 and 2010.”

  157. 157
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Or someone who has read one study and accepted fully the findings of that study ! Many such studies (and from the other side) have a political/gender bias which can be ascertained and by far studies which find that the biological father missing makes no difference type – have a gender bias against men built into them.

    Most of these can be found in either selected sampling or leading questions whereas in studies using random sampling and neutral questioning the case FOR the biological (and it has to be the BIOLOGICAL) father is overwhelming in the outcomes for children as to be undisputable. That governments use ‘selected expert’ studies on which they form policy means inevitably they get it wrong ! And destroy society in the process !

  158. 158
    Shergar says:

    Worked for me.

  159. 159
    AJS says:

    Having children is not a right. It carries enormous responsibilities. Those who are unable or unwilling to live up to the responsibilities of having children, should not be allowed to do so; because, by abdicating their responsibilities, they are creating problems for the rest of us. And the problems get worse when we are overpopulated.

    Child benefit is the root of the problem: we are actually encouraging these feckless women to drop out little shitbags purely as a vehicle to obtain money for fags and booze.

    It is time to abolish child benefit altogether, and impose an exponentially-increasing tax on third and subsequent children. It may have been a good idea once, when there was such a thing as infant mortality and there was a real chance that not every baby would live to earn a wage, never mind draw a pension. Modern medicine has changed that; and with the very real problems of overcrowding, a reduction in the birth rate (and therefore, eventually, in the total population) can only be a good thing.

  160. 160
    Dual Citizen says:

    because he’s mental and forgot to drink his fizzy orange.

  161. 161
    Old dog no tricks says:

    As an anti violent member of society I can say for certain that if Barmy Harmpeople was standing in front of me, and someone handed me a shovel, I would take to her head of with it !

    Though it looks like her mother tried already !

  162. 162
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Where I came from, such people invariably wanted something better for their children, and were known as upwardly mobile working class, like my parents and grandparents. Cowards were the people who didn’t try to better themselves. Where I come from, people like you are known as socialist loons.

  163. 163
    I Hate Tesco AND the Pope says:

    Fuck off, Anonymous. You need sectioning, you obsessive twat. Just go away, you fukcer. While you’re at it, learn some written English or I’ll come round with an educated hoody and teach you some. We know where you are………..

  164. 164
    TAT the piss soaked tramp says:

    The Manchester police made more arrests in one night than the Met did on Saturday
    many more will follow

    i hope they didn’t loot your shopping trolly TAT

  165. 165
    Old dog no tricks says:

    There is a connection – they have no moral values or standards of acceptable behaviour instilled from a young age !

  166. 166
    Ryan says:

    Tories are as bad as Labour. Cut from the same cloth. Can only hope that the penny will drop with the people now and they will realise we have been on the wrong path for the last 50 years or so and will demand a change of track.

  167. 167
    Ryan says:

    Cheapest of all just to shoot him.

  168. 168
    Phantom says:

    Kids riot and loot shops – something for nothing.

    Labour make noise to reinstate EMA – something for nothing and a reward for rioting.

    Unfit. for. government.

  169. 169
    Hugh Janus says:

    Thanks for the link, most enjoyable.

  170. 170
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    The analogies to be drawn from Gibbons, “Decline and Fall”, to the UK in the present day are quite clear. Only a disciple of Marxist historisism would wilfully reject them out of hand. Your preference for dogma over scholarship discredits your credibility.

  171. 171
    Arthur Glassfull says:

    If you give them a typewriter and wait long enough they will come up with the Labour Party policy document. Of course, this assumes access to a single sheet of A4 paper.

  172. 172
    Pilgrim Father says:

    Socialism has brought the following benefits.
    Moral relativism: You have lots of money and I have none. Therefore it is right for you to give me some, if necessary, by force. This will continue until I am as rich as you, whether I have worked or not. The socialist state feeds this notion of entitlement and will not suggest any other moral standard. It will also offer up candidates to rob (eg Mansion tax) as required. I will do whatever I like as long as I can justify it.
    Children: The state will give me a flat when I have a child and feed it. I can forget the father who will become irrelevant to the child’s life. The state will ensure through “child centric” laws that contact is made difficult so the state becomes the source of moral guidance. The idea of any respect for elders and authority will be discouraged.
    It is lucky there are a few left who know better. Let’s hope some lights are going on in Islington…..

  173. 173
    Adam Richards says:

    You can’t reduce this to a single or even a few explanations. Lack of decent employment opportunities, welfare dependency, lack of good quality stable parenting (as many have parents, grandparents and beyond who were brought up in similar circumstances), a culture of entitlement, powerlessness, inequality (poverty is relative, it’s not just living in a shack with a bowl of rice), disenfranchisement, a society that dismisses the social underclass as chavs and then wonders why they don’t then play by our rules, individuals who think it’s fun and just want to be part of it. And on top of that, you’ve got organised, very aware criminal groups.

    You’re not going to solve this by getting more police, or reducing welfare (welfare is higher in other countries where they don’t have this same dependency culture), or changing the incentives to increase two parent families, although all these may help. Accept that this is a complex problem that requires a complex solution and then we might start to get somewhere.

  174. 174
    genghiz the kahn says:

    the only answer is to cut off their goolies.

  175. 175
    Bowes says:

    If there is a strong mother backed up by a supporting family then there is no reason why the child can’t grow up with decent values and healthy ambition to better themselves.

    What we have been seeing here are youth who don’t have the benefit of a mother or father who actually give a fuck what their kids get up to, bringing kids up in areas populated by other dysfunctional families. The worst kids leading the rest into lawlessness.

  176. 176
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Yeah – it kept the other 10 kids quiet while they were at it !

  177. 177
    Jess The Dog says:

    The Corner, by the authors of The Wire, is worth reading. A factual account of West Baltimore, similar to many other US cities in freefall.

    A vastly different situation with the UK, with no state support network to speak of, with the rust-belt legacy which coincided with the wake of the Great Migration of rural black poor from the South to become urban black poor in the North after a brief flourish of industry employment in the 1950s and early 1960s.

    The biggest problem faced is the way that the maternal safety-net in these neighbourhoods has been comprehensively undermined. Single mothers, particularly in black areas, were the linchpin of dysfunctional families, along with grandmothers (some anthropologists believe that the evolved role of grandparents is central to the nuclear family success of humans). So, in the past, youths had half a chance, and now they have no chance at all. The only economy in these areas is the street drug economy. That becomes their world, except for the few who escape to the armed forces or to relatives elsewhere. Other than the emotional cost to children and the health cost to drug users, it is self-contained and tolerated because it is too expensive to fix.

    The UK doesn’t have that social and economic situation. There are lingering racial issues because of the uncomfortable fact that the UK was a racist society until relatively recently (the “colour ban” on the London Underground was supported by unions in the 1960s, something that they don’t wave around on their banners) and that the Metropolitan Police was (is?) institutionally corrupt rather than institutionally racist. The root cause of the problem is the decline of the functional family (including single parent families which are not necessarily dysfunctional) through worklessness and lack of aspiration, facilitated by the welfare system and an acquiescent state.

  178. 178
    Dribbler says:

    Not all fathers are footballers either.

  179. 179
    Submariner says:

    We should not be supporting non-traditional family structures. We should be heavily disincentivising them.

  180. 180
    Ryan says:

    The left fucked the family when they decided that the kids should automatically go the mother, not the father. Consequently the mother divorces on a whim, gets all the benefits, doesn’t work, shags around with every disreputable bloke in town that’s been left on the shelf because he’s a nutter and then we wonder why her family is a mess with step-dad(s) abusing the kids?

    Meanwhile the real dad looks at the mess his wife is getting into, gets fed up of her and her dodgy boyfriends giving him a hard time whenever he turns up to take them away for the weekend so he gives up, marries a younger model and raises a new stable family.

    I have seen this happen again and again but still we believe the nonsense that the kids are better off with the feckless mother and her dodgy boyfriends. When will we learn???

  181. 181
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    When I first saw the headline I thought it was about Piers Morgan and phone hacking.

  182. 182
    Ryan says:

    Guardian 2009: circulation 358,000
    Guardian 2011: circultation 256,000

    I’ll give the Guardian 5 more years and when it goes, the left goes with it.

  183. 183
    Anonymous says:

    “Shop a Moron” screams the headline: Piers Morgan can’t even be left in piece while we are all pre-occupied by the riots …

  184. 184
    Civil Servant says:

    Correlation /= Causation, you donkey.

  185. 185
    Ryan says:

    Ah, you mean like Swedish socialism? Sterlised thousands of women on the basis they looked like they might have problem kids between the 1930s and the 1970s.

  186. 186
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Miliband a Stateman-like Father figure? Has he even amended his children’s birth certificates to assume responsibility for their parenthood yet.? I can see Miliband as an absent father to a bastard nation, otherwise, HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

  187. 187
    Now let me think says:

    Apart from peer pressure, where do children as young as seven learn to become aggressive heartless antisocial thieves? Where do they learn that violence has no consequence and is often shown as amusement?

    If they aren’t riding around on their BMX’s enacting this mayhem, what are doing at home with their time?

    Clue: They aren’t reading books.

  188. 188
    Anonymous says:

    We need to send this generation of scumbags off to war and ensure that they’re on the wrong end of some ‘friendly fire’.

  189. 189
    Mark Austin says:

    There may be such studies as you describe, but the majority – including the Levitt one I cited – are done using a statistical tool caused regression analysis.

    How this works is you survey a large group for a number of factors, typically 10-12, and then group them into pairs where all the other factors are the same and one (in this case single parenthood) is different. When you do this, there is no difference between the single and dual parenthood families: they do exactly as well (or as badly) regardless of the parental situation as would be suggested by the other factors.

    I repeat: single parenthood, of itself, makes no difference. The apparent effect is caused by the fact that children with single parents tend to have other factors holding them back, such as poverty, young mothers, poor educational background in the family. These apply equally to children with both parents at home, and have the same effects.

    I admit that this seems counter-intuitive, but the results of the research are conclusive.

  190. 190
    Ghost of Gwyneth Dunwoody says:

    Hazel dear why did you split up Cheshire? No gain but plenty of pain eh?

  191. 191
    John Sage says:

    It was beautifully summed up in a one line letter in the Telegraph. The naughty step doesn’t work. Mind you at least parents who use a naughty step are trying something. Schoolteachers have long since lost control of some children who have grown up and decided to try the same tactic on the police. “We dare you to stop us” and they are winning.

  192. 192
    Ryan says:

    Yeah, Labour were just caving in to a protection racket. “Give us more ‘andowts or we’ll send ve boys ’round”

  193. 193
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    CSC. Very sub-par from you. I don’t agree with much you say but generally there’s some thought in it. Suggest you take a deep breath and start again.

  194. 194
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Mixed marriages are highly prone to failure. This one certainly would be.

  195. 195
    Figure of Hate says:

    I’m sure there’s a reason why they shouldn’t just remove the vote from criminals and the unemployed, but I’m buggered if I can think of it at this particular moment in time.

  196. 196
    BobRoberts says:

    Yeah. It’s all Thatchers fault.


  197. 197
    John Sage says:

    It is now 15 months into the coalition but it is still valid to blame labour for most of the disasters that have befallen the country in the last year. That excuse won’t last much longer though and until the Conservatives allow their natural instinct to overrule the lib dems bleeding hearts, the Government will fall. The irony is that the cost of repairing the damage will come out of the already depleted budgets which should provide public services.

  198. 198
  199. 199
    Don't let the imaginary detector vans get you says:

    Well you know what to do. The closing down or break up of the BBC is within people’s hands. There are enough people totally pissed off with this propaganda organisation to put it out of business.

    People power does work, as Erich Honecker found out.

  200. 200
    Ryan says:

    Living in poverty but carrying a smartphone????

    This is Labour’s new definition of poverty I guess. Just how much money do we need to pay these thugs to buy them off, sorry I mean to cure their problems? From what they are saying it seems we need to give them all the money we have until they are well off as the rest of us and then they will leave us alone.

    Can’t we just shoot them? It’ll be a lot cheaper.

  201. 201
    Labour Legacy says:

    here’s the comments by the black mayor of Philadelphia about ‘flash’ mobs:

    Mr Nutter, who is himself African-American, didn’t mince his words in a sermon aimed at black teens delivered at his local Baptist church on Sunday:
    Take those God-darn hoodies down, especially in the summer. Pull your pants up and buy a belt ’cause no one wants to see your underwear or the crack of your butt.
    If you walk into somebody’s office with your hair uncombed and a pick in the back, and your shoes untied, and your pants half down, tattoos up and down your arms and on your neck, and you wonder why somebody won’t hire you? They don’t hire you ’cause you look like you’re crazy. You have damaged your own race.
    Among the measures he’s introduced to deal with the disturbances:
    • He’s beefing up police patrols in certain neighbourhoods and enlisting volunteers to help
    • He’s imposed a 9pm curfew for minors, i.e. anyone under 18
    • He’s introduced a series of escalating fines for parents of children caught on the street after the curfew
    Mr Nutter also had a message for the absentee fathers of these wayward youths:
    The Immaculate Conception of our Lord Jesus Christ took place a long time ago, and it didn’t happen here in Philadelphia. So every one of these kids has two parents who were around and participating at the time. They need to be around now.
    If you’re just hanging out out there, maybe you’re sending them a check or bringing some cash by. That’s not being a father. You’re just a human ATM… And if you’re not providing the guidance and you’re not sending any money, you’re just a sperm donor.
    He concluded with a warning to the troublemakers, nearly all of whom are members of criminal gangs:
    If you want to be aggressive, we’re going to be aggressive.
    Let me just share this with you. We’ve got the biggest, baddest gang in town – a committed group of citizens and a committed government – and we’re working together and we’re not going to have this nonsense anymore.

    The sort of plain speaking we need!

  202. 202
    bird with small brain says:

    The Wendybird says that the lost boys must be told it’s not a good idea to become one of Captain Hook’s pirates because he’ll make them walk the plank eventually and then the crocodile will eat them. And Wendy says they should go back to the Wendy House but not to bring any big screen TVs please. Peter’s not there – he’s gone off to play with Tinkerbell.

  203. 203
    Cato Street Conspirator says:

    I thought we were taking about the riots, not greed-sodden bankers, political expenses troughers and Murdoch journalists.

  204. 204
    NUJ decides what you should and shouldn't know says:

    The NUJ has strict guidelines about anything that makes ‘da community’ look bad.

  205. 205
    t says:

    I had a long talk with a charity worker from Hackney.

    She said the major problem was a tidalwave of immigrants from Somalia, Jamaica and other violent countries.

    She complained that many of these immigrants have no concept of Western democracy, law or tradition. They settle arguments with violence and knives.

    She said that this had a terrible effect.

    It was – in effect – Labour had imported violence into the poorest areas.

  206. 206
    goto100 says:

    Someone mentioned “where were the police” when the rioting took place. Fair point.

    $100 million hey?

    But if we’re on the subject of “feral”, what about Britain’s feral banking classes? How much damage did they do? And where were the police then, exactly?


    Only in the neo-liberal social experiments of Britain and the US it seems. Check out other societies, Scandinavia (Iceland in particular). Oddly, there doesn’t seem to be much of a correlation between delinquency and father’s presence/absence there. Perhaps the reason for that is the one no self-respecting, feral, neo-liberal, banking lover would ever admit. More equal societies are safer, more prosperous, better performing ones too?

    The hard right, pretend-libertarian, “tea party” factions of various countries have zero credibility. Zero.

  207. 207
    Jobsworth says:

    Rules are rules. I don’t make the rules, I only follow them, mate.

  208. 208
    Ryan says:

    From what I’ve seen a lot of sink estates don’t actually have many grown men of any description present. Fact is that the council estates tend to fill up with lone mothers and their badly behaved teenagers. They don’t want their boyfriends to move in or their benefits get cut. So the boyfriends move away into rented. You end up with council estates full of middle-aged chavettes, old men and teenage boys running riot with nobody around with the balls to stand up to them.

  209. 209
    labour's legacy says:

    bet he claims that his human rights have been breached by the publishing of that photo..and bet he wins the case…

  210. 210
    labour's legacy says:

    did you get a shag at least?

  211. 211
    fedupwithtwats says:

    My top 12 reforms.

    1. Leave school to dole. Amount depends on previous 10 years attendance, BMI and qualifications achieved.
    2. Leave school with child. Dole support recouped from child’s father (or his family), given to child’s mother in her parents’ home or hostel. No free housing.
    3. Leave school to national service. Full youth wage and respect.
    4. Leave school to FE/HE. Fees paid but refunded based on attendance and qualifications achieved.
    5. Leave FE/HE to dole. Amount depends on previous 3 years attendance, BMI and qualifications.
    6. FE/HE courses refocused on real subjects. Delete all wishy washy media courses.
    7. Co-habiting, zero recognition of the status, considered single. Double council tax etc.
    8. Married couples, decent income tax benefits, increasing year upon year whilst marriage lasts. When one partner stays home to maintain the family, other partner gets their tax benefits in addition.
    9. No further payments/benefits for third child and over. Reduced benefit for 2nd child.
    10. Smacking naughty children to be both legal and encouraged.
    11. Power to teachers and police to administer corporal punishment without trial but with documentation and supervision.
    12. Remove all privileges in prison. Prisoners to be locked in cells 22 hours a day. Out for meals and 30 mins exercise per day. No TV, no weights, no segregation, no parole until 80% of sentence served.

  212. 212
    Ryan says:

    In Sweden they sterilised the entire underclass up until the 70s you knowledge-free left-wing tit.

    More than happy to see that plicy enacted here – can we assume we have you on board?

  213. 213
    Anonymous says:

    I don’t think that post was really made by Gordon. Calm down, dear.

  214. 214
    Posted from holidays says:

    The greatest episode of the Simpsons was the rearing of ned flanders by his beatnik parents back in the sixties.
    sitting across the table from the child psychologist after little ned has become feral after years of no boundaries parenting——-,mr flanders”you gotta help us doc,weve tried nothing”

  215. 215
    Ryan says:

    Definitely a lot of truth in that – murder rate in Jamiaca 30x higher than in the UK. Import enough people of that background and its going to have a huge impact on your crime rates even if they only make up a small percentage of the population.

    And what is the likelihood that many of these imports are actually hardened criminals running away from the law, with the authorities waving them a cheerful bye bye?

  216. 216
    Admiral Leach says:

    I have trained several young men (and two women) who came through the state care system. They where all of them hard working and succesful in their courses (one is on active service at present as an officer). The others have now all retired or left the serivce. What I can say again is that their abilties would have been seen sooner and their personal happiness more complete had they had stable childhoods. This is not always possible for a whole range of reasons, but what it does mean is that the state and its social policies must support the most effective model of family life that provides the best chance of stable succesful personal development. Its good for the stability of society and its good for the individual.

    The scenes we are seeing of 12-16 year olds causing mayhem means decades of further failure ahead. We cannot allow that, Dave and his team need to look at some major changes to our education and social programmes pretty quick.

  217. 217
    I'll have some of that says:

    Wd be great if Ken Clarke’s house got trashed along with his jazz collection…….I don’t suppose he’d mind a few overexuberant youngsters letting off some steam round at his place….

  218. 218
    Anonymous says:

    13 year old Labour voter.

  219. 219
    Anonymous says:

    No, definitely worse!

  220. 220
    Posted from holidays says:

    Of course they have,its called Moral Relativism the innate values of Common Purpose

  221. 221
    Lord Snooty says:

    Har Har Har,

    Reminds me of my days in Oxford.

    Of course we all returned the stuff the next day.

    As for us being fatherless, some of us had more than one father!!

  222. 222
    AJS says:

    Also, maybe we should be encouraging expectant mothers to abort if the child is going to be a boy. Fewer boys born means fewer men growing up, and fewer men means fewer criminals. Not rocket science, is it?

  223. 223
    SaltPetre says:

    Very good !

  224. 224
    AJS says:

    “The Immaculate Conception of our Lord Jesus Christ” ?!

    Somebody doesn’t know their own mythology …..

  225. 225
    Mark Austin says:

    A very valid comment. I would add to this the systematic pricing out of the better-off from these estates, thus removing the natural community leaders.

    I would also reference Jane Jacobs “Life and Death of American Cities” who commented that the lack of natural meerting places meant that those organisers that did exist – and her findings were that they were as good as anywhere – found it almost impossible to contact the “followers” and ended up, ineffectually, talking to each other.

    Added to this is the natural distrust by Labour of anyone other than themselves as “community leaders” and we see the hollowing out of inner city communities across the land.

  226. 226
    Steve P says:

    Nothing But Robust says:
    August 10, 2011 at 8:25 am
    In a desperate attempt to regain credibility, the Coalition Government has banned ‘hoodies’ – emergency legislation is proceding through parliament

    If correct – great way to ban the burqa without giving cause for religious bias claims!

  227. 227
    Smig says:

    With the thieving scum looting and burning Salford last night, where is Squirrel Nutkin?

    Yoohoo! Blears! Over here. Get off the sunlounger deary, some of your constituents are pissed off.

  228. 228
    Smig says:

    95% of them can’t read thanks to Pollytwat promoting the policies of “deferred success”.

  229. 229
    Smig says:

    So… you’re not refuting the accusation that New Liebour are a bunch of wankers?

    Thought as much. Don’t worry you’ll get your GCSE A* in Revisionist History in a couple of weeks.

  230. 230
    goto100 says:

    You exaggerating fascist wanker. No they didn’t “sterilise the entire undeclass”. There was program from the end of the war up to the 1970’s that sterilised several thousand women (forcibly) – it was criminal, and the Swedes subsequently made everything about it public, apologised and made restitution.

    Besides which, that is just one Scandinavian country.

  231. 231
    Anonymous says:

    Delinquency rates in Scandinavia? Sweden has the highest rates of rape in Europe, you hapless simpleton.

  232. 232
    Smig says:

    History repeats itself.

    GMG will recruit Campbell and Mandelson and relaunch as newGrauniad.

  233. 233
    Munky says:

    I’ve spent the best part of a decade as a voluntary learning mentor. I tend to take on the last chance case teenage boys and girls before they end permanently excluded.

    In my personal experience of well over 100 individuals, 99% of them come from single parent families living on benefits. There are exceptions of course but few and far between. The home is normally social housing. The parent with custody has little or no school qualifications, no aspirations to improve their situation.

    The children I try and help to see the value of learning and education are circling the edge of the plug hole that is sucking them down. They have no access to learning materials at home, nowhere allocated for homework, no parental support to do schoolwork. They are on a terminal nosedive caught in the riptide of less than under achieving benefit dependency.

    The blame lies 100% with the parent(s). Because they have disengaged themselves from (loosely termed) ‘normal’ society that they hold no value for, their children are also disengaged and lack values that give self esteem and confidence.

    The absence of fathers in so many families is a national disgrace. The reign of ‘Father Brown’ who thought he could replace paternal status in families with hand outs deserves utter contempt. The same fundamental error was made with losing apprenticeships. Teenage boys learned a vast amount more from older men than just a trade. I know, I did one.

    It disgusts me how fathers and men are undervalued in British society. We are good enough to pay for it all but not valued enough to be taken seriously. These riots are the net result of feminising a whole society.

  234. 234
    Mark Austin says:

    Why: as I’ve said before, single parenthood is not an indicator of social deprivation.

    Concentrating on symptoms is useless.

    Always remember, “Every complex problem has a simple, obvious solution – which is wrong”. In this cases it’s single mothers/non-traditional families.

  235. 235
    Tomnoddy says:

    Fuck off fawkes.

  236. 236
    Smash the left says:

    Encouraging the break up of the family unit is deliberate. It’s a goal of cultural Marxism.

  237. 237
    The Watcher says:

    Grim – it doesn’t surprise me that a teacher and a yoof worker are amongst those arrested

  238. 238
    Malmo's a riot says:

    Ah, but that’s overwhelmingly down to a certain group which we are not meant to notice, or mention. Diversity and all that.

  239. 239
    goto100 says:

    Maybe consider what is considered “rape” in Sweden before quoting that. There’s a certain extradition hearing currently ongoing due to exactly that issue.

    But your point is in any case completely tangential to what we are talking about here, namely that some people claim lack of father figures causes “feral youths”. But evidence from around the world suggests that grotesquely unequal societies, coupled with chronic lack of social mobility are the cause of an underclass developing in a society. And once that underclass is there, riots of the kind you have witnessed are likely.

    In Europe. the UK is head of the inequality stakes and second only to Italy in the low social mobility category.

  240. 240
    Different strokes says:

    There are lingering racial issues because of the uncomfortable fact that the UK was a racist society…

    Well, let’s see….

    You import tens of thousands of people from half way round the world, without any mandate to do so.

    You dump them into close nit working class districts, who were never asked if they wanted said people dumped onto them.

    Competition increases for jobs. Wages go down, factories close, unemployment goes up and trouble starts.

    Not hard to see why the UK was a ‘racist society’ is it.

  241. 241
    DJ Hooker says:

    It’s in the left’s ideological interests to break down the family unit.

    The idea of the family unit conveys a certain independence from the state, which they don’t like. The left wants us all to be helpless wards of the state.

  242. 242
    Anon says:

    Please sign the petitions below.



  243. 243

    Quite right. Fatherlessness and the destruction of the family model is quite widely to blame for the riots. But that in itself isn’t enough. There are plenty of single parent families out there who bring up perfectly respectable kids.
    You need to look at deeper issues. Morality in parts of society has disappeared, jobs have vanished and life chances have evaporated. Declining education standards has condemned these kids to a circle of poverty and lawlessness which is mutually re-enforcing.

  244. 244
    Jimmy says:

    “Surveys suggest that in areas like Tottenham as many as 80% families have absent/no fathers.”

    No doubt the government with its exciting new household benefit cap can get that number even higher.

  245. 245
    Jabba the Cat says:

    You then send them to political boot camps in Norway on isolated islands…

  246. 246

    I wanted to let you know that I comment [with many others] on Conservative Home and John Redwood’s Diary,Conservative home have been Moderating/editing/ in my opinion CENSORING me for at least six months[with NO reason] except that they don’t
    want my opinions [which are not libellous or against any law] ,as well as doing the same to many others.Now for the last few weeks John Redwood has started the same thing also with many others.I am of the belief that you are a supporter of FREE SPEECH I emplore you to ask via your site for people who have had this happen on both sites to let you know WHY and What about.If you send me your email address I will give you chapter and verse on why I have been and what about.I who fought Apartheid with my Coloured South African wife have been edited in my comments on the RIOTS for what were perceived to be Racist comments but were NOT,all I did was make similarities to South Africa as well as other comments.If this
    is the way of things then this country of mine is DOOMED,maybe that is why I am returning to my wife’s country despite it’s problems

  247. 247
    Anonymous says:

    Give em jobs then you dickhead – then they’d have something better to do wouldn’t they.

  248. 248
    Anonymous says:

    ‘It’s a return to mob rule!’. Yeah, like the 1700’s (that famous era of socialism). Dickhead!

  249. 249
    Anonymous says:

    you’re so boring and not funny. And you can’t spell ‘off’. Which government was responsible for your poor education?

  250. 250

    All this trouble happening round Britain at the moment is just a relatively small number of feral children having summer fun. The mainstream media have gradually cottoned on to the fact that it is not a demonstration or a protest. Even the BBC has given up trying to claim that it is.

    There seem to be three kinds of child involved:

    Criminal gang members. Mostly known to the police and mainly from either single parent households or from parents with sociopathic and criminal tendencies. These are the utter scum of our society and will go on to lead a life of criminality costing normal law abiding people a fortune. When they are caught it will make no difference to their lives, it is just an occupational hazard. They will, at the cost of the state, have children who follow in their footsteps. Generation after generation of dependency culture criminal parasites.
    Opportunists with low morals. There are lots of these in the world, badly brought up with no sense of right and wrong. They are easily led and are piggy backing the riots to do a bit of looting. Many of these people have jobs or are in full time education. When they are caught it will massively screw up their lives.
    Spectators. Lots of people are on the street to see this for themselves. Unfortunately an opportunistic looting opportunity may tempt them and bring disaster to their lives.

    The numbers involved are very small indeed, only occasionally getting over 100 in any one incident. London is a lot quieter now, not because of the increased police numbers, but because most of the troublemakers have been caught and locked up. Many of them are well known to the police so will be picked out of the CCTV footage very quickly. Other cities will become quieter as their gangs of feral louts get locked up.

    Like the Arab Spring this whole summer riot season was enabled by the smartphone, it would not have been possible two years ago. What we are seeing are Flash Mobs, the mainstream media don’t seem to have caught on to what these are yet. And of course the technology that the feckless youths use to become rioters and looters can be used against them with flash mob vigilantes. We saw a little bit of this last night with various soccer supporters, community and religious groups taking to the street. This is the ultimate in libertarianism, in the absence of an effective state the individual will empower themselves to deliver the services they need. In this case law and order. And of course they will do a better job than the state can.

    Around the whole of Britain the police have probably arrested about 1,000 people. Over the next couple of weeks they will use CCTV and press footage to get a lot more. Over interviews they will implicate more. In the end the police will catch most of the culprits. Because their criminality happened in a riot it is considered particularly bad by the law so there will be a lot of custodial sentences handed out. And quite right too. This will just be further training and bragging rights for the feral criminal underclass. But for the opportunists it will come as a massive shock and maybe will teach them to lead better lives.

    So what is the answer to this problem that we have?:

    Remove children’s “rights” that prevent them from being disciplined. The lefties have created a social framework where many children don’t know right from wrong and who go unpunished when they misbehave. Parents, teachers and the police must be given back the powers to control young people.
    Having babies must no longer be an available cash generator for the dependency underclass. Single mothers should be put in dormitories when they come to the state for support. The current socialist policy of giving them a fully fitted apartment and lots of money each week just encourages them to create more babies who will be a future liability to society. We are paying taxes to create a feckless, criminal, dependency underclass.
    Parents and legal guardians should be liable, under criminal law, for the actions of the children they have charge over. If the parents of each looting child were fined £5,000 or given a month in prison the looting would stop pretty quickly. Parents must take responsibility for the children that they bring into the world.
    All recreational drugs should be legalised. The whole criminal culture in certain communities is based around the trade in illegal drugs, take that trade away from them and you take away the criminal activities. This is exactly what happened at the end of prohibition in America. And remember that the worst recreational drug of all, tobacco, is already legal.
    Create a law to empower civilian vigilantes in riot situations. They will react far more quickly and far more effectively than the police.
    Introduce workfare for the unemployed and get rid of job seekers allowance. This will force a whole change of culture among the dissolute dependency underclass.

    What we don’t want is more police, they have been part of the problem with heavy handed methods including rampant stop and search activity. Also prosecuting very young people for minor crimes so they become criminalised early in their lives which just pushes them into a life of crime.

    There is no doubt whatsoever that the criminal rioters are Blair’s and Brown’s children. They are the consequence of stupid socialist policies driven by dogma instead of practical reality. Throwing money at child poverty, for instance, creates more child poverty as becoming pregnant is seen as a good way to get an income without working. And the kind of mother who thinks that it is a good idea to be a parasite on the state is hardly likely to instil good morals in her children.

    The truth of the matter is that we are reaping the consequences of having created a feral, criminal, dependency underclass. We need to take away the welfare state that created and sustains this. Deliberately not working must no longer be a viable career choice.

  251. 251
    Peter expat says:

    Bring back flogging, for rioting. Cheap and effective. Bugger sticking them into some university of crime that costs a fortune to keep them in there.

    A few Yank comments here:

  252. 252
    For people who can't read the info at the top of the page says:

  253. 253
    Anon. says:

    Guardian readers? Don’t be ridiculous! They can’t read – they were educated under Labour!

  254. 254
    Anon. says:

    Personally, it is people who cover their faces with masks and hoods so that they can’t be identified and then go smashing up shops and stealing designer goods who I would call cowards. You think that inflicting criminal damage and thieving are acts of bravery? You are a twisted individual.

  255. 255
    Anon. says:

    Actually, I meant SICK individual.

  256. 256
    One of those single mothers says:

    I am a single mother whose son went feral. His father left and dumped us with no support, he went abroad when son was 6. I had to work to support us rather than live on benefits and was fortunate enough to hold down a good job. I did without new clothes, things for myself and even managed to send him to private school age 7-11, using all my savings.
    We had good male role models about but in senior school/ teen years my son started to try to control me when ever we were on our own and also built a group of friends he got into trouble with. Cannabis followed and by the time he was 16 I had just about lost any control of him. When I made house rules etc he began assaulting me, eventually I had to put him on streets. Assaults went from pushing and shoving to throwing me across room, kicking and pinning against walls etc. In shock I ended up actually physically fighting back but it was no contest as I am 5ft and he elasticated up to 5’10”.
    He assaulted me again – fine £50 – then TWICE again after forcing his way in seeking money for cannabis, but police took no action as there were no other witnesses. I was devastated, moved home and at least got in a Home Office scheme where they put in an alarm system that summons police. It happened twice more, again no charges. Police came, took statement, took photos of injuries / damage, tracked him down, held him in custody for a while and then released him. All my family and friends were stunned. We could never get him charged and into ‘the system’ re drugs and anger management, it was simply overloaded, and as these were common assaults or minor ABH rather than requiring hospital treatment, I was at back of queue.
    Now he is over 20, unemployed and has mental health issues from over use of cannabis. I think his girlfriend suffers his worst behaviour now. The only ‘good’ thing is that he does not come near me without permission as he knows I will call police. What a way to live.
    From talking to mothers from all backgrounds / cultures with this problem there is one very common factor: it happens where there is only one young male in the house. He has no fear of mother or sisters and mixes with young males who also treat females with contempt. Most common is a mother and son living alone without other siblings who might intervene. They are generally edgy, athletic males and many were higher level achievers at school until it all went wrong.
    This is the truth: I wish instead of concentrating on my son when he was much younger I had found and remarried a male partner so that someone bigger and stronger than him had been about when he was 13-15. At least we would have had a chance and I would have been safer.

  257. 257
    FavershamAss says: site not able to cope with demand for petition advocating that rioters lose their benefits. #londonriots

  258. 258
    Crazy Diamond says:

    It just be worth your while to stop and think about the differences between the 18th and 21st centuries, you twerp.

    The first lot of mobsters didn’t have free education, subsidised housing, state benefits and the vote.

    The second lot of mobsters just don’t have brains.

  259. 259
    Crazy Diamond says:

    Oooh, but don’t you remember Patricia Hewitt, former Sec of State for Health? Or Margaret Beckett, who helped to fuck up Defra?

  260. 260
    Kered Ybretsae says:

    This was certainly not a war of ‘fatherless’have-nots against the haves. These were haves with their Blackberries and modern, up to date communications out to get more without paying for it. Return to Law and Order with a Zero tolerance for looters, curfews and water canons out on the streets. Army units on stand-by, creation of Labour Camps. That is certainly not Camp Labourites I mean, nor Leftie luvie get togethers. No Real hard disciplined Working Camps, painting coal white and black again anything to get their lazy hands working and not thieving, Certainly no welfare benefits for anyone arrested for rioting.

  261. 261
    Kered Ybretsae says:

    Now I cry when I read about fatherless kids. Back in the fifties…no social net my dad was paralysed in hospital for 4 years before he died. I was 12 when it started and 16 when he died. My mum worked herself silly to keep our home running. I went out and got a job in advertising spent evenings drawing cartoons which I sold to the national press. Did I need drugs…go out thieveing NO. But I didn’t have a father figure when I needed one. I managed just the same. In all my working life I spent 3 months out of work…making 47 years and 9 months of tax paying work and at 72 I am still working
    drawing and copy writing. Pass me hankies dear!

  262. 262
    Anonymous says:

    Best of luck.

  263. 263
    Anonymous says:

    Nah they understand all right. They just dont care. I am convinced no-one can be that thick. While these pricks need help lefties have a market.

  264. 264
    Elgin's lost his marbles says:

    Charlie Gilmour’s mum has been a bit quiet recently, not even boasting about how her Mum was a Major in Mao’s Red Army.

    Could this be one beneficial effect of the rioting/looting?

  265. 265
    Evangelical Atheist says:


    96% of kids from separated families are cared for by mum. Father’s have no right in law to see their kids even if they really, really want to and spend everything they have (plus some) to do so. None at all. Not even if there’s a court order that says so. Not if mum says no, which they do in alarming numbers. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and the courts deem mummy too precious to punish, so just fuck off dad, you’re not welcome.

    Single motherhood as a lifestyle choice & endemic welfare dependence is Socialist social Gerrymandering on an epic scale. “Deadbeat dads” is how you buy all those juicy single misandric mummy votes.

    We’re in an inverted totalitarian state people, and the Revolution will be televised. Along with Chelsea v Arsenal, so nobody will notice or care, and so it’ll quietly fizzle out so we can get on with consuming more stuff, safe under the cosy umbrella of Martial Law.

    As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

  266. 266
    Anonymous says:

    “Research”, eh?

    To coin a phrase, I think you must be joking.

    It ain’t “research”, it’s PC advocacy – largey funded by taxpayers and used by activists to undermine our culture.

    Run along – there’s a good chap.

  267. 267
    God is an Englishman. says:

    From news footage it is abundantly clear that the vast majority of rioters are IC3.

  268. 268
    MILF fancier says:

    Feminists like Harriet Harman declared war on decent men who wanted to be good fathers, husbands and role models . So decent men withdrew from society and this is the result. Lawlessness and lack of discipline are now common place. What is worse is that no politician is prepared to say so in case it upsets the very feminists who spent the last forty years denigrating decent men…..

  269. 269
    Botannicus says:

    An excellent comment indeed! You’ve hit a nail about the problem in our societies today: no values, no father example… nothing: just the socialist “welfare” for the sheep. Let’s hope we still can reverse that.

  270. 270
    Gary says:

    You’re talking poo. Haven’t you heard of Philip Larkin?

    In many cases, broken families are the result of people who don’t like each other at all marrying because society pressures them to do so.
    The more people stay single and play on XBox living as bachelors and bachelorettes, the better.

    The insistence on people having families is the problem. Women have kids because they think that is what they have to do, they should be encouraged to live as bachelorette, living the single life and only marrying and having kids if they really want to.

    That’s the answer. We need to get away from the marry-have-kids BS which makes so many people’s lives miserable.
    Most marriages are miserable, soul-destroying prison sentences. Men and women are meant to shag, not live together.
    Nothing wrong with staying single throughout life, in most cases its better for both genders to live separate lives.

  271. 271
    Gary says:

    Philip Larkin:

    They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
    They may not mean to, but they do.
    They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

    But they were fucked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,
    Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another’s throats.

    Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
    Get out as early as you can,
    And don’t have any kids yourself.

    Larkin had it right, the family values numpties have it wrong. My mum and dad f***ed up my life. They gave me stability, yes, but they also are control freaks who prevented me from living my own life.
    You fail to appreciate the danger that overbearing parents pose, they are every bit as dangerous as absent parents.

  272. 272
    Gary says:

    They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
    They may not mean to, but they do.
    They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

    But they were fucked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,
    Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another’s throats.

    Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
    Get out as early as you can,
    And don’t have any kids yourself.

    We should listen to the wise words of Larkin. What is needed is LESS families, not more. More people should live their lives as bachelors and bachelorettes, as the Japanese are doing.
    There are to many children, and too many parents.

    Only about 30-40% of people are cut out for parenting, the rest of us should stay single. Fact is, many people are simply not interested in all the marriage-raising kids crap.

    Stop presenting parenthood as a social norm when it should not be. The reason there are so many crap parents is because everyone is becoming a parent.

  273. 273
    Gary says:

    As Max Keiser put it, they are applying for jobs at Goldman Sachs.

    Qualifications to work at Goldman Sachs:
    1. No morals
    2. Greed
    3. Ability to steal ruthlessly
    4. Total disrespect for the law

  274. 274
    Gary says:

    They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
    They may not mean to, but they do.
    They fill you with the faults they had
    And add some extra, just for you.

    But they were fucked up in their turn
    By fools in old-style hats and coats,
    Who half the time were soppy-stern
    And half at one another’s throats.

    Man hands on misery to man.
    It deepens like a coastal shelf.
    Get out as early as you can,
    And don’t have any kids yourself.

  275. 275
    Anonymous says:

    The Roman aristocracy ignored him though and carried on adulterously shagging each other. Aristos are always the same, fuck anything that moves and then tut about others doing a bit of the same.

  276. 276
    mikem1 says:

    Reinstate the Married Tax Allowance to bring a moral advantage to this shambles. OK it will not deter the hardcore feckless but it will provide a psychological and financial separation from those who have no “moral compass” . “What’s the point in getting married” will at least have a point..

    Really make my day and get Ken Clarke and Nigel Lawson (the original abolishers) to sponsor the Bill in each House.

  277. 277
    Anonymous says:

    Fatherless homes? Do you ever get the feeling you have been had. The point may just have had validity once, what most us see is women exercising their right of choice in a market. What is often more likely to be true is a merry go round of different fathers.

    The problem is poor parenting (lack of real parenting skills) poor education system.

    Look at the German system and Australian systems

  278. 278
    Gary says:

    Philip Larkin wrote a poem about this problem decades ago, called “This Be the Verse”.

    The problem is, girls are taught that they must have babies. We need to encourage girls to be bachelorettes, to only marry and have kids IF THEY WANT TO.
    What is needed is for girls to be encouraged to focus on their own careers and their own happiness and to stop looking for it in men and babies.

    Society still pushes the idea that everyone should be a parent, when its a fact that many human beings are not interested in raising kids and doing all that family stuff. We would do well to heed Philip Larkin’s wise words.

  279. 279
    Gary says:

    Ban Car Boot Sales
    Encourage girls to seek happiness in themselves, not seek it in men and babies. There is a need for more, not less feminism, as far as girls are concerned.
    More male teaches.
    Jail bankers, journalists, and politicians who break the law.
    End the ridiculous amount of wars we are fighting.
    Stop bailing out banks.
    Get rid of the conformist culture in schools, encourage kids to think for themselves.

  280. 280
    Gary says:

    Girls should be encouraged to live the single life, and not be so obssessed with men and babies.

    The more girls play XBox instead of dating boys, the better.

  281. 281
    Anonymous says:

    Don’t let state dependents or employees vote, except the forces. That would eliminate the lefty political bloc and permit a slow return to sanity.

  282. 282
    Anonymous says:

    No benefits for unmarried women. End of story.

  283. 283
    Anonymous says:

    Don’t worry, the postal vote organisers will do it for them!

  284. 284
    Archie says:

    But I bet the “working classes” will carry on voting Labour, in fact I’d put money on it!

  285. 285
    Archie says:

    No shit!

  286. 286
    Archie says:

    That manifesto gets my vote!

  287. 287
    Archie says:

    I hope things work out for you. You deserve better.

  288. 288
    AJS says:

    Who thumbed me down?

    “Immaculate Conception” in christian (specifically, Roman catholic) mythology refers to the way that Mary was born without the stain (macula) of original sin.

    It is not the same thing as virgin birth (which is a common theme in many mythologies: every good protagonist needs a distinguishing feature.)

  289. 289
    Nonanimouse says:

    There is a further effect missing here, however – that is the cause of the other disadvantages! A child with two parents of employable age has, I would speculate, a greater than double chance of having an earned income in the household when compared with a child from a single-parent household. An earned income has no end of financial and social implications.

    So fine – you can say that it’s the lack of parental attention or the poverty or the lack of harpsichord lessons that are the problem but what caused those? Could it be the lack of time and money that comes with being a single parent? Your cohort study overlooks the fact that it is very difficult for a single parent to maintain everything else the same.

    This is, of course, why William and Harry can grow up without being looters – they had a single parent with all the support needed to maintain everything else. In the real world I wonder what proportion of households maintain all other standards when one parent leaves. I’d like to see a study on that.

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Find out more about PLMR AD-MS

George Galloway says of his former Respect candidate the UKIP MEP turned Tory, Amjad Bashir…

“Clearly Bashir does not have any real political principles or commitment, only naked opportunism and self-interest. He represents the revolving door principle in politics. The Tories are welcome to him because he will cause them embarrassment. Fortunately Respect was able to act before he did it to us.”

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