AV Too Much for BBC
The BBC’s two hour attempt to sell AV to the listeners of Radio 5 backfired spectacularly. Not only did Labour win with the Greens in second, something which is sure to go down with their core audience of cabbies and truckers, but it also went out of its way to prove the complexity of the system. And to top it all off, it didn’t work.
Because some people refused to put anything other than a first preference. Something that will happen in reality, the winning candidate could not get over 50% of the vote, rendering the whole basis for the change useless. The election would have been void. Guido can’t imagines the pious and godly Yes campaign staff being the sweary type, but they must have come pretty bloody close when Victoria Derbyshire read out the flawed result.
So AV is a complete failure – what a surprise!
This is worrying. Has someone sent out a search party for Billy? Maybe posting non stop for 1 million hours straight finally took its toll and he’s sleeping.
His fingers have worn out, that’s stumped him
Doesn’t he usually post from work?
Maybe someone looked at the log files.
He’s probably considering a Full Toss with the third umpire!
[I once had the pleasure of meeting Nigel Farrage - at a Biggles fan club - and he is a swivel eyed loon who takes great pleasure in smelling his own farts]
Blimey!
The Greens did well in that mock poll – think I’ll vote no to AV on that basis alone
John Snow is being an utter utter snidey c unt on Channel 4 News tonight, by fuck he is on full attack the cuts mode . Apparently the shooting incident in South London today was as a result of Cuts to front line Policing which admittedly haven’t happened yet and errrrr no one ever got shot before they did…..em…..happen.
I’m quite worried about cuts to front-line policing.
Instead of the usual situation (where there are no police on the beat), there will, in future, apparently be no police on the beat.
A terrifying prospect.
[I once had the pleasure of meeting John Snow - at ITN in London - and he is thick. Very very thick.]
[I once had the pleasure of meeting John Snow - at ITN in London - and he is thick. Very very thick.]
Strangely enough, the default position for any leftie.
After telling listeners about growing up with a love for Kensal Rise library in north west London, which is now earmarked for closure, Ms Smith rounded on the coalition Government’s “shameful” policies.
“Of course I can see that if you went to Eton or Harrow, like so many of the present cabinet, you might not understand the point of such lowly gateways. Or conceive of why anyone would crawl on their hands on knees for the privilege of entering one.”
ZADIE SMITH – you are an utter piece of scum, bigot, arse wipe ; you are hated
Referendum – would you like to pay more tax for increases in police numbers?
Answer – No
Totally agree – Snow didn’t give us how the figures for murders,shootings, muggings, rape, burglary have all increased astronomically in direct proportion to the waves of immigrants forced on us by 13 years of Liebour.
YeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaa!!!
Little Timmy Blair’s son Donald Cameron is kicking ass in Libyaland!
Arm them rebels boy! You won’t regret it.
There was also a ridiculous debate on tax payers funding the arts.
Snow could hardly conceal his contempt for the suggestion that the tax payer should not subsidise the arts.
So Snow countered “you would deny millions of our citizens from exposure to these cultural events.
Now call me thick but if millions are interested in these events then the art world are quite capable of sustaining itself with that sort of audience.
And why will no one address the issue of successful movies failure to repay the shareholders and investors in said production ie the tax payer. Why do we not get a share in the profits?
Well quite. It is even more horrifying that these “cuts” are to affect the budget of the most f***ng useless police force in christendom. Compared with the current lot of namby-pambies with their community-based approaches, I’d rather we brought back Dixon of Dock Green, the Sweeney 70s style, and the 1980s West Midlands Serious Crime Squad, whose only purpose in life appeared to be to commit serious crime in the form of false statements and altering evidence.
And they still haven’t found my Fiat Strada, stolen from the Fulham Road in 1986. Planks.
Perfect Answer
And if they cut front line policing
who will arrest all the low life scum smashing up property
every time there is a labour party rally ?
No one thats who !
so it’s true the cuts won’t affect front line policing !
Foreign Minister in UK quits over Libya!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0330/libya.html
another defection! the war will be over by the weekend
Tip for all the Paddies crying about their fucked economy. Ask Osborne for another £7 Billion Bailout from the UK taxpayer.
Anon,
Those “millions” are a lie dreamt up by the left liberal elite. How else could they justify getting the government to subsidise their privileged passtimes. They’d be mortified if the nekulturni oiks, who go to Cats and Starlight Express in their millions, actually turned up at Covent Garden or the Royal Opera.
“Our evening was absolutely ruined! All those horrible common people milling around absolutely ruined the half time champers. Cressida was heart broken.”
I was at “Les mis ” once when some one got a final warning !
For singing along to every fecking tune !
Must have thought it was the BBC recording “The good old days”
The truth is I also rather enjoy evenings of high culture unspoilt by the presence of unwashed specimens of the lower orders (whether they sing along or not).
The difference is I don’t have the damnable cheek to expect other people to pay for this pleasure.
There’s a new Umpire on the block: Taufel, Simon Taufel.
Bowden is on a drip following a cataclysmic curry and a bundle with Chappelli and Benaud over the choice of Chardonnay in Mohali last night.
Thats the only reason we are being given a referendum on it, plus of course the fact tat the EU demands we change our electoral system to something the euroslime approve of.
If it worked and made the UK more democratic/at all democratic then we wouldnt be getting it.
AV won’t work in the UK the inhabitants are to stupid to understand anything other than the simplest of concepts. A cross next to a name resulting in a victor is workable. Expressing a preference that results in a winner who actually has a majority is beyond their comprehension… Rule Britannia
Ref 89. That’s “too” stupid.
The numbers change with successive posts. Only the datestamp works as a (semi-) unique identfier. Who’s ‘stupid’ now?
ukuncouth it seems either you’re wrong or number change is more complex.
Indeed.
We have an elected dictatorship.
A stitch up between 2 tribes.
We are no more democratic than Iraq is now.
If AV gave us a more representative Parliament there is no way that we would be getting the referendum.
Like a referendum on Europe.
£60,000,000 a day of our money & counting.
The Tories will rue the day they let that Heathite lead the party.
Are you referring to the well known traitor formerly known as Edward Heath and now dead?
To my eternal shame I attended the same grammar school. I don’t like to talk about it.
Speaking as a card-carrying Mensan, I sort of understand how it works, but there are still aspects of AV which confuse me. The results of the mock election certainly need a bit of head-scratching to figure out, and it’s taken me a few minutes to work out what actually happened.
I’m still open to persuasion, but this example leaves me feeling slightly more confused than I was before. Sorry, Mr Clegg.
The Greens would appear to have received more than half of all the counted 2nd preferences. If that is replicated throughout the country god help us. Kind of sums up the intelligence of half the country, moan about the cost of fuel but vote Green. Last one out switch off the lights.
Agree.
most BNP went to UKIP, most UKIP then went to tories, then Libdems went to Green and Labour squeezing out tories with Labour on top.
BLOODY OBVIOUS FROM THE INITIAL VOTES CAST! WASTE OF TIME
‘Daffy Terminated!
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Article/201009115963250
He’s an actor dum dum. Those are his films you were wanking over, not reality.
We know you have a habit of projecting and you’re a bit retarded, but we really would like to see your efforts at blogging.
He’s not really a “terminator” you septic simpleton.
They don’t actually exist dumbass. It’s a film not reailty. Are you mentally ill ?
I’m sorry about your Projection , your mania, your inability to separate reality & fantasy, and also not having a single personality.
Hope you get well soon.
The only way for AV to succeed in producing a winner with>50% is to introduce electronic voting & force each voter to enter the correct number of 2nd, 3rd preferences, etc, to be chosen. Otherwise the vote would not be accepted. However, this would probably result in the turnout plummeting to the levels of the Euro elections! Is there any research into voting intention with AV? Higher or lower than FPTP?
And with electronic voting they will not have to worry about the result being spoiled by those pesky voters. They can program the counting machines to give whatever result they need, and can even write it so that on the execution of the code, a subroutine is created to rig the result and then automatically deleted leaving any tampering hidden from view. Piece of piss!
There really would be no point in voting as the winners would be pre-programmed in…
Once you have cast your electronic vote, everything after that is based on the trust of the voter. Do you trust these politicians to NOT rig the vote?
Looks like the 5Live calculator is a bit of a failure too….. with an electorate of 200, how can any of the voting shares round to other than .0 or .5? Where have the .9s, .8s, .2s etc come from? Maybe there were several thousand postal votes for Labour on top of the declared 200 electorate.
R56
Void election = no candidate in parliament?
Truely democratic principle then, and much to be pushed
T’BBC had a complete failure at explaining AV. Something completely different.
More telling for me is the clear implication of the Beeb’s voter demography: trades unionists and watermelons.
I like politics as much as the next guy but 2 hours of AV drivel would require an afternoon with Charlie Sheen and a complete inability to move.
This went of after 3 minutes.
Derbyshire is the worst of the 5 live presenters, only made worse by such a topic as an AV non real election.
But credit where credits due. At least we know now that if we vote Green we’ll get Red. Or vice versa or something. Actually I’m not too sure…how does it work again?
Say there are 10,000 voters in a constituency. 5,001 of them vote UKIP as their first choice, 4,000 of them vote Conservative, with UKIP as second choice. The winner is Labour, with 68,920 postal votes.
*true*. Though I think you may have understated the influence of the votal posters a tad.
lol.
Its funny coz its true.
Can the postal voters count in English?
Labour won with 54% of the final vote. People who had no preference between Labour and Green chose to abstain.
The figures show the same thing that your blog does, i.e. you talk complete and utter bollocks.
How am I wrong?
Your desire for a continuation of the ruinous strategy of 1997-2010 would be a strong indicator your are probably righteously challenged on other issues too.
You lot are cacking yourselves aren’t you?
Suppose you noticed how the libdem voters chose Labour as the second choice and not the Tories.
They, apparently, don’t agree with Nick.
LibDem voters?.. hmm. There may be a few in the fossil record. We’ll have to get back to you.
@Anon
And that is why the Labour party is opposed to AV? All those LibDem voters will just jump ship with their 2nd preference and elect a shed-load of Labour MPs. And yet Labour is anti AV.
Why is that?
Surely even the most out of touch expat twat should know that Labour are split over AV. What a mong.
They’re not ‘split’. They’re covering both bases so they can claim victory whatever happens. Same as Darling calling for ‘cuts’ and Ned Balls calling for printing money.
And since they (Labour) have only a blank sheet of A4 as official policy then who is to say what the party line is/was.
Wouldn’t it be funny if Cameron launched a ‘policy review’ and matched his blank sheet of A4 with Ned’s?
You’re wrong because those people didn’t vote Labour. Rather obvious, really.
Why not have another final round? Then the winner will have 100% of the vote by your reckoning, because the Green voters would either have no further preference or would have voted for Labour as Nth best somewhere on their ballot. How am I wrong?
You seem to have mistaken guido for me
They did not choose to abstain, they voted for another party. Why would anyone express a preference for parties like the Labour and the Greens who they find so odious that they would never put a cross next to them unless there were a fresh supply of nails and a bloody great big hammer there too.
Not according to the chart above.
What a ridiculous comment – either you get 50% of all the votes cast or you don’t.
You cant have some subsequent gerrymander to get it over 50% by excluding some of the votes.
If people only make one preference, and that candidate loses then their vote is thrown out and removed from the number needed to make 50% so
If in a ballot where 10000 people voted they would need 5000 to get through the first round. If 100 people who candidate lost in the first round did not have a second choice then there would only be a total of 9900 votes in the ballot so a candidate only needs to get 4950 votes to win.
So the bbc did not implement the algorithm correctly
The winning candidate has to hav 50+% of the votes cast. Not of those left at the end………………..
Isn’t it –
50% of the votes cast, not including spoiled papers or Tory ballots, which are discarded.
Then add the postal votes by weighing a sack of mail and adding a weight determined vote value at 79%-20%-1% to Labour/Green/Ukip and declaring Miliband president of Europe.
I’m sure President Van Rumpy Pumpy will disagree and get Baroness FaceMashedOn to tell you about it!
Sorry, Bill, you’ve forgotten to add in the union votes.
It would not have been void. They should have eliminated the Greens and then if she still didn’t have over 50% then she would have been declared “last man standing” and taken the seat.
Eliminating the Greens sounds like a very good idea indeed.
All part of a good square meal.
Ugh. I suppose grilled, with a lot of ketchup. Even so, you’d have to remove all their stinky unwashed clothing first..
Wot iz VD? I ain’t kno nuffink about no AVP. Iz dat some film or sumfink? It’z Fachar, aint it? Yea, itz all Fachez folt!
Call me an ignorant peasant but didn’t some chappie called Concordet demonstrate that the outcomes of FPTP and many AV systems are mainly the same?
But AV is more profitable for manufacturers of counting machines.
So the shareholders in these companies should do very well financially then?
As would whoever wrote the code for the counting machines, as they would decide the outcome of the election, instead of the voters.
Anything that gets us closer to having electronic voting, should be rejected completely.
With electronic voting, you lose the link between casting a vote and having that same vote counted. You will not know if your vote will be counted or flipped or ignored entirely.
If AV is a stepping stone to electronic voting, then that is reason enough to reject it outright.
FOR n = 1 TO total_votes
IF vote = “LABOUR” THEN labour_vote += 20
ELSE IF vote = “TORY” THEN tory_vote += .1
ELSE IF vote = “LIB” THEN lib_vote += 1
ENDIF
NEXT n
REM fuckit, let’s stitch this
PRINT “LABOUR: 120,992 VOTES: TORIES = 1 VOTES: LIBDEM = 19 VOTES”
Excellent. Now add some hanging chads for the media to have something to write about.
To be honest, If you wanted to go that far, it would be just as easy to rig the counting!
Some safeguards to consider.
Open source the software with signed digital signatures.
Allow people to verify their still private vote online after the election with say a private key encryption scheme.
It’s been a few years now but I seem to remember Single Transferable Vote was the bollox of PR systems and anything else is just nonsense. I can understand changing it out of principle but this is just cheap. If FPTP & AV draw the same outcome that would seem odd. Will toddle off and have a look at the chap…..
Condorcet
http://physicsworld.com/blog/2010/04/the_three-party_voting_paradox.html
Seems to work fine to me.
The voters get what the voters vote for. Labour edging out Greens in this constituency.
Also, who can complain when people who can only manage to put an X next to the BNP candidate don’t have their vote transferred.
And interesting that the Tories got remarkably few alternate votes once the BNP and UKIP dropped out.
Interesting but not surprising.
Fringe parties are usually socialists who have split two or three times from the main party.
It sums up Labour that even when Cameron congratulated Miliband on his engagement, the c unt still used it as an opportunity to make jokes about Bullingdon. Labour are just rotten to the core. The Tories may have been the nasty party at one time but I wager there’s more decency and humanity in one Tory MP than the entire Liebore rabble put together.
Labour still haven’t got over losing over one hundred seats at the last election. If I were labour I would concentrate on getting over being totally useless.
It’s still the same old labour brownites, bitter, twisted and hopeless.
Milimong’s retreated to the far-left comfort zone. If he’s going to win convincingly four years from now, he’ll have to appeal to more than Labour’s core voter – he’ll have to appeal to intelligent people, too. So far, he’s lacking.
4 years?
Tessa darling, do you think this cabl, sorry coalition has really got that long?
Clegg is toast in May.
Hughes is already sharpening the knife.
I think the coalition is finished by the end of this summer , but I am usually wrong, so I’m saying four years.
But less than one year is probably more like it. Or not. But it is.
Isn’t “canon fodder” a euphemism for fresh young altarboys?
Are you demonstrating your knowledge of military history TT or are you being facetious?
A cannon is a machine to unload one’s balls over the enemy. A canon (note spelling) is a religionist who wants to unload his balls into choirboys.
Agreed. What an ungracious cu’nt Millimong is.
I mean, he may not have been in the Bullingdon Club, but he was certainly born with a siverl (Socialst) spoon in his gob. It was probably a serving spoon which accounts for his inability to speak properly.
Cameron should have said “Yes, I was in the Bullingdon Club, but unlike your shadow chancellor, I can say I never attended a party dressed in a Nazi uniform”.
Or walked over my brother for office. That’s gonna come back with momentum.
Or had a father who fought for the red army.
Or dodged inheritance tax on said fathers home.
Or is owned by a union.
I thpeak mostht eloquently on any thubject I choothe.
I am a geniuth. Now, go forth comradeth and riot in the sthopping centerth.
Hi! I’m Mandy! Fly me! I mean, fuck me!
No thanks bitch!
Ooh, get her!
Are you going to ride me senseless on a yacht again ducky?
Victoria Derbyshire was having an orgasm this morning when Liebour won both times.
Never heard a thing. I was too busy talking over everyone.
Who’s Victoria Derbyshire, and should I care?
Jennings and Derbyshire, must be his sister.
Sensitive Liebour Clitoris Syndrome!
According to the figures you’ve put up 9.3% off people had no preference between Labour and Greens. Guido, I don’t see why this “hasn’t worked”. More people wanted Labour to win and they did!
I know you, you’re swingometer man.
because the basic principle of AV is that the winning candidate HAS to get over 50% of the vote in order to be legitimate, not 49% nor 49.9 but over 50% and if that cannot be reached in this fictional case (which may well be reproduced in reality) then the whole case for AV becomes academic as it cannot do “what it says on the tin”
Nonsense – there’s nothing magical about “over 50%” – the only over 50% that’s remotely meaningful is of first-preference votes. AV just uses 50% since if you breach that, there’s no point going further with the calculations.
I’m not a fan of AV, but the amount of fucking mathematically illiterate idiots with computers is amazing me.
It would not be maths it would be arithmetic, but it isn’t either of them, it’s merely not knowing what the rules actually say and probably not giving a shit anyway. You don’t need a fucking maths degree to use a computer anyway, cΰnt.
My post today contained letters for all the adults in the family from the Yes campaign. It helpfully contained a postal vote application and heartwarming messages from: Stephen Fry, Honor Blackman, Colin Firth and miscellaneous other luvvies.
I was immediately fired with enthusiasm for a Yes vote – after all, if Eddie Izzard is going to vote Yes, that ought to be enough to persuade me. Then, I reflected on all the elections for which I am sent voting papers which use a form of AV – I’m referring to various professional bodies and charities of which I am a member. My practice is to: 1) put anybody I actually want to vote for first (a rare event); 2) put anyone I dislike last on the list (usually takes up a few candidates); 3) fill in the intervening space at whim. I suspect most voters will do the same and therefore that we risk ending up with electing someone who is a totally unknown quantity and/or a lunatic fringe candidate.
mm maybe Screaming Lord Sutch is about to rise from the grave..
Or Ed Miliband
Or John Bercow
I don’t mind John Bercow – the lad’s doing his job and if he pisses off a few arsey Tories then fine. Unfortunately I can’t remember Deputy Spunker but he’s a south Yorkshire Labour dude and he seems happy for a bit of abuse to kick off proceedings. The John Hemming thing about super infunctions is defo on their table so a bit of admin banter is fine and there is a whiff that lawyers are gonna get bitch slapped. Bercow’s office seems well administered even if a little bit too pricey &/or tarnished.
The fact that Bercow pisses off Cameron is neither here nor fucking there.
I’d be one of those who would not put a second preference – that would REALLY piss on their fireworks if everyone did that.
We’d end back at FPTP therefore AV is a complete waste of time and money.
Kinnock would be very annoyed at the drop in value of his shares. That alone should guarantee a No vote.
The biggest reason not to vote for this, so that Kinnock doesn’t get any more dosh from this.
Not putting a second preference to spite AV is the same thing as not voting to spite FPTP. The only person that loses out is the person who wastes their vote.
Unless you vote for the winner, your vote is wasted anyway. That’s the same in FPTP and AV. Only difference is, in AV you get more chances to vote for the winner if you get it wrong the first time. And that’s what AV proponents hope you’ll do because they know they’d never get close to winning or having any influence over the winner otherwise.
Wonder how many statisticians/mathematicians have just been employed by the various Parties to try to work out the likely winners and losers in an AV voting system, sounds like a selling race to me (A Handicap for Andy Cap).
Well its only a game.
The winner got over 50% of the votes of those who expressed a preference in the final round.
If people vote for just one candidate and don’t care who gets in if they dont – what is the problem? they abstain and let others decide…
Is the BBC still taking wads of cash to promote the Euro? Is that corrupt?
The fuck we are, do you know how many rent boys and lines of Cocaine we can get for that money? My dick is almost hanging off I’ve shagged so many young boys and my nose looks like an Alpine snowstorm.
Good evening Mr Dimbleby, wonderful of you to find the time to drop by.
The ECB “loans” to the BBC are commercially sensitive, apparently.
Very useful and convinced me to keep the current system.
I have written to the BBC about the misleading information in all of their articles about AV that says the counts continue until someone reaches 50% of the vote.
Funny old thing they have not changed their guide to AV to tell the truth about it.
In the light of this experiment, they will.
“some people refused to put anything other than a first preference.”
Uh… just 1 person, according to the table of results. (0.6% of 200 = 1.2 people)
Hmm. So 1 person only putting a single preference would be 0.5%. There isn’t actually a way for the figure to BE 0.6% of an electorate of 200.
Therefore I doubt the validity of these figures the BBC have reported. They look as though they may be either fictitious or miscalculated.
Is it true that if you only put down your first preference then the election would be void? There is hope then if they do win the vote for AV!
Even if yes wins, any election can be ruined by those who don’t agree with the change only voting for one candidate.
The Yes to AV cannot win.
Voting for just one candidate means “I want this guy to win, and I don’t care who wins if he doesn’t”.
It doesn’t ‘ruin’ anything.
You are utterly wrong.
Voting for only one candidate means that is the candidate I want and I DO NOT WANT ANY OF THE OTHERS.
A voter who has no preferences after the first would simply mark the rest in an arbitrary order.
Look – you just end up with the least unpopular candiate – a recipe for mediocrity – think RedEd.
Yes but Red Ed wasn’t voted for by the party his eventual victory was let’s say “gerrymandered” by the unions block vote, if the party votes were the only ones that mattered then Red Ed wouldn’t be where he is and Balls wouldn’t be salivating at the thought of his fall from power.
If AV does come in I for one will only cast one vote and if that equals a spoilt ballot then that’s fine by me!
What a load of nonsense… they’ve screwed the arithmetic up, Labour got 53.4% of the vote. If you don’t put a second preference you don’t get counted in the subsequent rounds so you don’t count towards the final percentage.
Can you put for your 2nd preference the same thing that you put for your first?
Yes but only if its a Labour candidate, otherwise its void.
No more boom and bust.
Well spotted Tommy. I wondered when someone would cut through the crap that the BBC dishes up (or was the spreadsheet built by Guido?). And, saying that, it looks from the chart as if the Tory candidate did not get any second+ preference votes as his proportion of the vote stayed remarkably similar (I’d have expected UKIP voters to go for the Tory).
The most serious part of this is the eventual disenfranchisement of the voters who do not profess second, third or even fourth, etc preferences. In extreme cases, the winning candidate could get the 50+% required but find that it really only represents (say) 25% of the voters who bothered to vote but only voted for one candidate.
Stupid fucking system.
I always made sure I got 103% of the vote you mongs
If we don’t find any WMD, you can stay in power.
Bit fucking late now
I will vote Nobby Nobhead and his Satanic Party for my 2nd preference. Just for the hell of it! Anyone for 3rd 4th etc. Oh the logic AV.
AV or not AV, that is the question.
But who will take arms against our sea of troubles?
If it’s true that it’s possible to get a void result, this is bound to happen in real life, and probably in several constituencies. I have a vision of a dwindling band of desperate fanatics dragging themselves down to the polling booth week after week after week…
Do they call it a draw in the end or something?
No, they’ll probably fiddle the result!
Not surprised to find that the ‘impartial’ BBC sees it as part of it’s remit to sell AV to the electorate. Cock sucking, coke sniffing wankers.
No, the candidate with the largest number of votes, in this case the Labour candidate, wins.
Isn’t that ..a bit..sort of..like..what we have now?
So what message was the biased beeb trying to put across.
Vote for AV because then we’ll get labour back in?!
Or does that result show that they are only attracting a very small number of viewers/listeners to their biased programmes, and that the majority of those are labour/green supporters?!
In the last Scottish election, which uses an AV system for it’s regional list there were lots of spoiled votes. Most of these were found to be papers were the voter had not expressed enough preferences.
In the above example any ballot paper without 6 preferences would be a spoiled paper, none of the votes would be counted. As the ballot paper would not be counted in the total the 50% mark is reachable.
Some juicy ammo for Cameron to use at PMQs next week:
Tony Blair’s former IT chief has said Labour ministers ordered expensive computer projects because they wanted their policies to “sound sexy”. Ian Watmore – who is now in charge of a Whitehall efficiency drive – gave a scathing assessment of the previous government’s IT record.
He told the public administration committee Labour’s procurement had been over-ambitious and badly-managed. The coalition has called a halt to big IT projects to save cash.
In a strategy document published by the Cabinet Office, it vowed to move to “smaller more manageable projects” and said no scheme will cost more than £100m. It has also promised to open up procurement to smaller firms, who have found it difficult in the past to break the grip of giants such as HP, BT and Fujitsu, who together get about a third of central government contracts, worth about £5bn a year.
SCHEME UP TO 100 MILLION – THAT IS TWO DAYS AT 45 MILLION POUNDS A DAY WHICH BRITAIN – SORRY THE UK – GIVES TO TO VON RUMPEE
AND HOW DO YOU GET ALL THOSE BOLD LETTERS.
This is all complete bollocks
And what the hell is an advert for Gok Wan doing on this page, Guido??
So we all know what he looks like when a bounty is put on his head, and I don’t mean the coconut bar.
Brentford and Isleworth. Tory marginal but during the day when unemployed and single mothers are out in force in a leisure centre using their unemployed discounts. What a surprising result then!
But wait a minute. I thought the BBC wasn’t allowed to conduct political polling?
Is this another blatant breach of their Charter?
Yes, yes it is.
This is one of Bonkers Browns ideas isn’t it? Not surprised to see it go tits up.
Death Breath conversion.
Labour/Blair/Brown already reneged on a referendum on proportional representation promised in their 1997 manifesto. This when they had a majority of 200 or so.
That’s why Nick Clegg told him to fuck off in 2010.
Labour/Brown are proven liars.
So when’s Nick Clegg’s referendum on proportional representation?
Or is he hiding because his miserable little compromise on AV is going to cost him the Lib Dem Leadership?
Evidence, then, that Green supporters have bugger all to do.
Never mind, on the 5th May maybe the electorate who can be bothered to turn out or walk down to the post box may deliver “a plague on all your houses” (turnout lucky if it tops 40% at any time) except in the rabid Liebore and Con constituencies, sorry Cleggy your party will probably bite the dust, what should happen is like the Australian system where it is the law that you must vote or be fined.
Community leaders collecting postal ballots vote many times, so that’s even better, right?
Yeah it’s the mantra of Liebour constituencies across the land “Vote early! Vote often!”, and we have the nerve to complain about other “Banana Republics” elections.
Pay the fucking fine. The average UK citizen earns 25K (or so) a year.
Every five years they get asked which bunch of c*unts they would like to be c*unts for the next five years. In return they get taxed around 40% after Tax, NI, VAT, fuel duty etc etc. ie 25K* 5 = 125K* 40% = 50,000 quid.
Your vote costs 50,000 pound. And yet if a bunch of imbeciles (such as happened from 1997 to 2010) is elected then you have no say.
Fuck it. Take the 100 quid ‘fine’. It’s a fucking rounding error.
They got told Debt = Wealth.
For most people it seemed true for a bit until the economy fell off a cliff Road Runner Coyote style.
It doesn’t matter anyway. Leadership debates will decide the winner.
LibCons should be thinking right now about getting key words into their discussion that will be comical when said by Miliband.
Red
Ranks
Robe
Rope
Marxist
and
Caroline.
I have thought for a while now, he will come accross awful to your average memeber of the Human race in the debates.
Not just the fact he speaks like he has a mouth full of phlem, or the fact he talks utter shite.
He is clearly a nerd, and your average joe are not keen on nerds.
W.W.
That’s why Dave got a 100 seat majority against a hopeless cun’t like Brown.
The public love him that much.
They should look for forks in the road.
2014 News : In the run-up to the Election we look at the conservatives controversial jailing of Roderick Rodgers… and ask the question “Would Milliband grant him an Amnesty?”
Wewease Wodewick?
Oi! What about the fluffy Liberal pc thinkers? We are not represented here!
Who on earth is paying for the marketing of the YES vote on AV?
I must get 3 emails per week and one flyer so someone, somewhere is paying the bills for this excess.
Never do I get anything on the NO vote.
Could it be the taxpayer – oh not again!
Look in mirror
Err…err…err…err…err…err…
The London mayor vote is based on the same nonsense. Look at the form and you want ONE person to win, the rest are @ssholes, any you’re from that supposed to pick a second candidate. What a bunch of morons!
It’s progressive and expensive and shit, so it’s right innit? End of. Any arguments meet me outside.
Why oh why are we wasting money on this AV rubbish when all we have to do is amend the system so that an MP can only sit in the same constituency twice.
Make the bastards get on their bike and move around the country, that way southern home counties MP;s get a better outlook on life by going up north to see problems and vice versa
Yeah, Northern MPs can come south to see it sucked dry of cash and Southern MPs can go North to see how the North struggles to find ways of pissing-away the South’s money.
Eee bah goom you are a tease. I know you’re really Arnold Braithwaite from Doncaster, sithee.
To AV or not AV that is the question.
If it were Sarah Jane Mee, then I would AV ER.
Why don’t we have the referendum under AV? Rank Yes and No in order of preference?
You need more than 2 choices to have a valid AV system, I suggest adding ‘don’t know’ and ‘couldn’t give a stuff’ as options.
I’ve always voted ‘none of them’ and always will whatever the system. Perhaps under AV I will add 0, 0 and 0.
So there are 10,000 votes cast. In the first count 5,000 voted yes and 5,000 voted no. counting their second choices 4,999 voted yes because 1 twat had dire rear and had to rush off to the kazie and 5,000 voted no. So the noes had it, but the noes had a first choice of voting yes.
So the best way of sorting this problem out is to allow one vote only. In the event of a tie then choose the winner by a duel with live ammunition.
Re-introduce the death sentence and hang the surviving c.unt.
My fluffy thinking informs me that the majority of the plp voted for David Militwit and they got Ed instead. Hmmm? Something very wrong with AV if the Party got their second preference for leader.
The main political parties will not leave the 2nd preference votes to chance. They are far to valuable, this is what happens in Australia. Labour, LibDem, Tory, SNP & UKIP voters will all be given cards before they vote telling them who to place as 2nd, 3rd etc preferences. Before the election UKIP will extract concessions from the Tories and will then advise their voters to give their 2nd preferences to the Tories. The main beneficiary, before the election, will be – surprise, surprise – Nick Clegg as both Labour and the Tories will need him to come out and tell the LibDems to give them their 2nd preference. This will mean weeks of “I agree with Nick”. It is difficult to see how he could recommend anyone other than the Tories but we all know LibDems can be duplicitous. There may be some constituency variations but more than likely whoever Nick Clegg picks as the Libs 2nd preference will win the election and they will have to implement LibDem policies whether they have an outright majority or not. If Clegg comes out for the Tories, Labour will need to recommend their voters give their 2nd preferences to the Greens, which will hopefully mean a wasted vote. But if Clegg does recommend Labour, Labour will probably win with a ’97 like majority.
What makes you think that Nick will still be LimpDic leader come the next election? There are enough treacherous Huhnes positioning themselves for an act of defenestration.
I struggle to find one party to vote for. The rest are definite no go areas, so how does that work?
You simply vote for only one party in this case. There is nothing in AV (or indeed a proportional system) that forces people to vote all the way down the list. All it means is that, in the event of you preferred candidate not winning, you have no influence on the result
AV + Client State (millions in public sector and on benefits) + Lab-Lib deals + Postal Voting = Recipe for Poverty
The AV referendum can really change Britain’s prospects, with a Yes being a No to future wealth creation.
A Yes to AV means Cameron will be the last conservative PM in my life time (and I’m -274).
Cameron the last Conservative PM, Cameron is not a Conservative, he’s blue Liebour and will be out as soon as Clegg gets or doesn’t get AV, it’s now gone past who is PM ,blue ,yellow,red,green,purple we are now owned by the EU, so don’t expect things to get better ,just worse.
No he’s the Zombie Corpse of Edward Heath re-animated.
http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2011-03/28/gq-comment-worst-politicians-quentin-letts/sir-edward-heath
My worry is that Red Ed may be right and AV would result in a perpetual centre left UK Government.
Now the reason that FPTP works in the UK is that every time Labour bankrupt the Country the Tories are voted in to sort out the mess. Then when all the pain and grief is done with the voters breathe a sigh of relief and vote Labour back in.
If we have a perpetual Centre left Government, who the hell is going to stop us going down the pan?
And here we ‘ave it !!
The BBC has been accused of political “bias” after rail union leader Bob Crow said an invitation to appear on the flagship Question Time programme alongside London mayor Boris Johnson was withdrawn at short notice.
Mr Crow, general secretary of the Rail Maritime and Transport union, claimed there had been political intervention after being told he was “pulled” from tomorrow’s programme on BBC1 because he appeared on BBC Radio 4′s Any Questions last week – along with the mayor.
“There is no question that I’ve been pulled from this week’s Question Time because of a political intervention at the highest level within the BBC, which is yet more evidence of the Corporation bending the knee to this Government and the Tory Party.
“The argument that this is about me appearing on Any Questions? last week is total garbage. Boris Johnson appeared on the same programme and yet he is still on the Question Time panel.
“The week after more than half a million marched on the streets of London, the people of this country have a right to hear the London mayor and the Tube union leader debate and discuss his spending cuts plans,” said Mr Crow.
The BBC said the panel for Question Time was subject to change until it was finalised
Me thinks he doth protest too much.
Boris would wipe the floor with the inarticulate fuckwit.
Tube strikes are the one strike the Londoncentric beeboids don’t like.
He’s not wrong.
Was he going to sub for Harriet , who pulled out when she heard she’d be up against Boris?
“Not only did Labour win”
Sounds like a resounding success to me.
To be a Labour supporter Jimmy you either have to be rich or an idiot, which one are you?.
Probably a benefits junkie.
Jimmy belongs to both categories.
Jimmy swings both ways.
YOU’VE UPSET THE WINDOWLICKERS!
BAD JIMMY!!
In football song Style!
There’s Only One Window Licker,
One Window Lii icker!
and his name Issss
Thick Ass Thief.
What do you expect? More Conservative voters will be at work earning the money to pay off Labour’s debts.
Tonight I will be Luke Skywalker.
The farce was strong with this one.
Ed Miliband – 18 out of 23 is not “more than 80%”. Now repeat this line 50 times on the PMQ’s blackboard.
Anyone else think it strange that the Y/N AV referendum is effectively being run using the FPTP system – i.e. the most votes wins.
Shouldn’t we all get a 2nd choice vote ?
Like the enigma that is the monopolies commission, only the gargantuan brains of a politician can fathom it all out.
What happens if less than 50% of voters turn up to vote on AV?
Ireland got a second chance when they got a referendum “wrong”…
Guido doesn’t understand AV. The winner is the last person standing after all the other candidates have been knocked out.
Counters stop at 50%+1 merely because no-one can beat a candidate with 50%+1.
And, if only Labour and Greens stood, then those expressing no preferences wouldn’t have voted. And so the Labour candidate would have been returned with 53.4% support of the voters ie a majority.
Sorry Guido, but get on the side of democracy next time, eh?
Thanks, Dave. Your explanation has pointed out to me the total iniquity of AV. Having gone through the thread, it is obvious that AV is an easily misunderstood voting system designed to give an insurmountable advantage to the Left in the future. However, bearing in mind that 60% of the UK realise the necessity for the Coalition’s economic policy, gerrymandering an inbuilt advantage based on populism may have unintended consequences. Popular sentiment changes.
It’s hello to AV and goodnight to C*nservatives.
Even the counting of AV is less complicated than systems used by The X-Factor, Big Brother and Come Dancing. If you have an IQ > 90 and don’t understand it, it’s because you don’t want to.
As for the voting side, if you can’t count to 5 you probably shouldn’t be voting. Even small rodents would be able to grasp the concept of putting things in the order of preference.
If you have an IQ > 90 and don’t understand it
That’s why it has to benefit the Tories.
Look at Scotland. Their electorate (the one that votes Labour in droves) were so confused they elected the SNP. The thick c*unts.
Anything at all that confuses the easily confused brains of Labour voters (you know, basic maths, AV, stuff like that) has to be of benefit to the grown-ups.
he he, lefties are truly frighteningly thick.
YeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaa!!!! LOL
Wikipedia:
Obama’s Policies once elected:
see Bush’s Policies.
Yee Ha!
But does it have the built in system that Big Brother did that meant they had a million votes available if the publi voted for the wrong candidate? Say eliminating Jade (my good friend who I miss horribly. Read all about it in my new book what I wrode miself I did)
If there are only two candidates? Completely irrelevant and very careless logic. In that situation there’s no difference between AV and FPTP. One of the two would have >50%.
It remains the case that less than 50% of the voters voted for the winning candidate. That’s the same as FPTP, but was supposed not to happen with AV. In fact, avoiding that is the only reason for AV. And it just doesn’t work.
And ‘those expressing no preferences wouldn’t have voted’ is pernicious rubbish. I would only have voted for one of the candidates because I explicitly did not want any of the other five. More than 50% of the voters did not vote Labour because more than 50% of the voters DID NOT WANT LABOUR, and cooking the books to make it look like they got more than 50% would be lying. Nevertheless, Labour got more votes than anyone else so they won this silly toy election. Just as would have happened under FPTP.
The very fact that a pro-AV argument necessitates the ignoring of voters wishes and the artificial contrivance of incorrect proportions – ie of vote rigging – shows what a nonsensical, malconceived and dangerous idea it is.
Furthermore, electronic voting is deeply flawed and riven with corruption and fallibility – and there are plenty of examples of both from around the world – and any voting system that cannot work without it, such as AV, is thereby fundamentally undemocratic and to be avoided like the plague.
Oh now I understand. Its so clear when explained in simple terms.
Just looked all through this thread. Billy must be having one hell of a dump.
Dear Guido,
That bird advertising the Boots Lipstick has a massive hooter, but I find her fucking horny. Am I normal ?
Worried of Slough..
Normal for this blog, yes.
Should the BBC really be trying to brainwash people into voting a certain way in a referendum?
Oh silly me, they did that in the 1970s (over the EEC ref) and sacked any employee who dissented (such as the then lead person on the Today Programme), so why they not going on being the biased, corrupt load of scumbags they have been for so long?
However, I think Guido is correct – this particular show may have backfired.
The media don’t seem to have caught up with it yet, but there is a move in Scotland to spoli the AV ballot papers because, ‘they,’ would not gives us a referendum on the Scottish constitution.
It seems so complicated that there will be loads of spoilt papers anyway. For instance, will we have the version where you have to rank all candidates, or just how many you want?
What happens if your next choice has already been eliminated? Does it go to the next one after that, or do you sit out one round of votes?
What really happens if 50% isn’t reached, like in the BBC example?
What sort of turnout and majority are required for the referndum to go through?
“For instance, will we have the version where you have to rank all candidates, or just how many you want?”
As many as you want, or even a single X (which is counted as a 1).
“What happens if your next choice has already been eliminated? Does it go to the next one after that, or do you sit out one round of votes?”
The former. The idea is that it simulates knockout voting. Counters know how you’re going to vote in the next round because of your preferences.
“What really happens if 50% isn’t reached, like in the BBC example?”
Last candidate standing ie highest % wins.
“What sort of turnout and majority are required for the referndum to go through?”
No limits on turnout, majority ie 50%+1 needed.
I’m fra Norn Irlann and um tae thich tae unnerstant it. Annieone gif me mare munnie tae tache id?
The Scottish Constitution?
Hardy and tribal due to millenia of Darwinian selection but prone to violence, liver failure, obesity and early death in the modern world.
Good with: Guns, knives, Al*o*ol, heroin
Bad with: Maths, consequences, longevity
Could be worse , could be living in E**gla*d and get your children shot in the street.
So much less refined than Scotland where they prefer to stab their kids in the street.
Begorrah!
Technically, London’s not ‘England’. It’s more Mogadishu.
Or Ghana looking at the crowd at that Wembley Friendly …
Fucking good game though. And brilliant goal by that Ghanain bloke. I had him down as man of the match even before he scored. And that thick c*unt Downing claiming England were unlucky to settle for a draw was beyond parody.
I dont think that people will vote 1 con 2 lib 3 labour or indeed 1lab 2 lib 3 con – they will vote things like 1 lab 2 BNP 3 UKIP or 1 con 2 UKIP 3 BNP. There in lies the issue
BTW
That graphic makes no sense to me.
So the B&P come last and their 2nd preferences all went to the Greens? Is that what it’s suggesting? No significant move percentage-wise for UKIP and T*ries, Labour goes down a fair bit – because, you know, in this BBC un-rigged example it’s important that the B&P don’t switch to Labour. Fuck no.
Am I missing a trick here?
Just sayin’ there has been total bbc silence about the ruling that our Trev and his Equality Commission have to pay all the costs of their “vexatious court actions against the b n p. Strange that!
Yes. It’s a little-known fact that B&P supporters are really closet tree huggers.
I’m not wrong am I? That seriously is suggesting that the B&P’s second preference is for the Greens isn’t it? Not UKIP. Not Labour. Not the T*ries. The fucking greens?
Aye, right. If we can’t chuck all the w*gs out then we want more windmills and solar panels.
Eh? Am I the only one smelling a rat with this BBC ‘real life’ example?
BBC wouldn’t try a bit of this
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-worms-bait-voters-swayed-interactive.html
Surely not…
Yeah, it’s not the clearest table.
Of the 2.6% who voted BNP, 2% put UKIP second (unsurprising) and 0.6% put no second preferences.
Looking at the table, ignore the first column.
The second column shows 1st preferences under AV.
The 3rd column shows simulated 1st preferences if BNP weren’t standing.
The 4th column shows simulated 1st preferences if BNP and UKIP weren’t standing.
The 5th column shows simulated 1st preferences if BNP, UKIP and the LibDems weren’t standing.
The 6th column shows simulated 1st preferences if BNP, UKIP, LibDems and Tories weren’t standing ie just Labour and the Greens.
Clever system really.
I think you may have mis-read the table. All the B&P voters put UKIP as they’re second preference (except the 1.2 B&P voters who didn’t have a second preference).
Under the proposed system a candidate could get every second preference vote and no first preference votes. A round one they are eliminated as having no votes.
So? They’d get zero votes under FPTP too.
And they’d probably get <1% of the vote 5 years, 10 years and 50 years later.
Been away for 4 days. Just caught BBC News at 10. They showed a map of the middle east in a Jeremy Bowen article about Syria. Named all the neighbouring countries to Syria. It included “The West Bank”. Has it been granted Nation State Status by global governments In Shallah?
Nah mate. This is the BBC. They’re in the habit of blaming the banks for everything.
Hear! Hear!
Newsnight
Tory cuts Tory cuts, Tory cuts
Tories eat babies.
Cuts cuts cuts
Why should we pay for fucking leftie luvvies? How much money did Slumdog make? Did any of that money go back into funding more films rather than using tax payers money?
Why should some fucker on minimum wage fund leftie drug taking rent boy molesting arts luvvies?
Fuck off and get HIV you leftie twats.
I agree. LOL
As Guido Says…
If Arty people want more funding, sell more tickets…
Eloquently put.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100081864/has-the-bbc-given-up-all-pretence-of-political-impartiality/ – the answer is yes, worth seeing the comment that the move to Salford is to stop the staff getting blotton on cocaine. I can assure the the dealers in m/c will be only too happy to oblige.
I don’t hear Dave and George complaining though I do hear loud sniffing noises after I’ve dropped off their ‘special snuff’.
Busy working day?
Bollocks.
I thought the one eyed jock c u n t she married robbed all the piggy banks? the fuckwit robbed everything else that had money in it.
The Savoy?
Does Bob Crow know about this?
Good jub it wazunt da fooking Ritz coz we’d smash dur fooking toriz and anyone owe lookz liku a tort.
tories toriz toriz
skumm
skkum
skum
Don’t tell UK Uncut about this tryst.
I FINK THE RITCH BITCH SHOOD HAV SPELLED IT “DRINKYPOOS”.
IVE BEEN LURNING.
Don’t worry about submitting that bill as expenses Sarah. We’re still focussed on private schools and anti-bullying charities as per our last instructions.
Champagne socialists.
Yeth pleathe. Jutht a thmall glath.
Why don’t you all love me?
I love you Gordon
We love the fact that you’re not Prime Minister or Chancellor of the Exchequer any more.
Fuckwit ever onward Maximum Imbecile.
How come Gordon Brown could never be persuaded to defect to another Country….like say Scotland?
Because, thanks to the previous Tory administrations, it’s shit.
Scotland is shit because it’s full of ginger haired drunk violent heart disease ridden mongs who wear tartan mini skirts as their national dress.
Well obviously those points you’ve highlighted don’t help. But you’re forgetting the fact that on average it’s 6 degrees C colder on any given day so the climate is fucking awful and so it’s fucking freezing and nothing worth eating grows there.
But that would be okay if they were smart enough to be innovative and come through with great scientific advances which they could manufacture and sell and so mitigate the fucking awful climatic, al*o*h*lic and health disadvantage they’d been dealt by fate.
But there it seems there is nothing that can wean them from their self-destructive urge to ‘punish’ the ‘posh’ T*ries of the south by perpetually voting for Labour imbeciles.
said the expat twat
you sound a bit chippy?
did they punch your lights out when you were there for being such an odious moronic wanker
Evening stalker.
Releathe Thamthon the Thadducee Thtrangler!
I don’t recall giving you permission to talk.
Think of all we’ve done for you and for Britain! Just think back to that golden age in the 70′s when you only had to work 3 days a week, when everyone did their bit for the environment by using candlelight, when all it took to remember your dearly departed was to step out your front door to see their coffins, and when a mountain of uncollected rubbish became a unique art installation in Leicester Square. Let’s return to that golden age. Vote Labour.
Yeth. It’th progrethive. Labour Refounded! To the Theventieth, and beyond!
Shhhh!
I’m not in government just now…but if you want to leave a message…vote in may.
Thut up, you utheleth thlimey thlimeball.
My progrethive riotting comradeth will make you thuffer.
Jolly good show old bean.
Pip! Pip!
Thank you. Your friendth thmath a rethtaurant, MY friendth thmath the Wetht End.
Beat that, thcumbag.
Top hole old fruit. Doesn’t the Bogtrotting Paddy Fawkes claim to be an anarchist like those oiks attacking the shops ? Sounds like you just shot yourself in the proverbial foot old chum, what what ?
They were NOT oikth or anarchithtth. They were comradeth, thocialitht heroeth. Like the thuffragetteth.
‘appen it’s time to arm some of those big butch Libyan rebels with some friendly fire. I could use a holiday to find a willing new Spadboy over there, ba goom!
You leave my betht friend Gadaffi alone, you beathtly brute!
‘appen thou is a reet thick twat lad! Miliband voted for the UN resolution with Dave ye daft booger. Sounds like a soft lad like you could do with a good spadding, ba goom!
Becauth I’m leader of the oppothition, I’m not actually able to vote on UN Retholutionth. But when I’m Prime Minithter, I will.
And my thpadth will be better than your thpadth, any day.
‘appen the vote in the commons was on the U.N. resolution soft lad. Sorry but I draw the line at having mentally retarded Miliband impersonators as my Spad, ba goom!
That vote wath after the UN retholutthion, you think Tory twat.
Now, now soft lad. Thee doesn’t have to make thyself look any more stupid than thou already has. The vote in t’commons was ON the U.N. resolution ya simple booger. ‘appen thee needs to find thyself a brain before putting your foot in it again, ba goom!
Was it a cosy little non-partisan chat with David Cameron that persuaded Ned Miliband and all but a dozen Labour MPs to vote in favour of this insanity or did they seriously just compound their error of judgement over Iraq?
What is this?
War roulette?
Sooner or later you’ll get lucky and call one right?
Truly feeble.
Cameron needed a chat with nobody to support Iraq and he still supports that disaster.
IDS on the other hand was only persuaded to get fully behind Iraq after a phone call from Dick Cheney’s office as confirmed by Cheney and Rumsfeld officials in Bob Woodwards book on the Iraq War.
Even you must be tired of talking shit about things you know nothing about?
Cameron owns this Libyan fuckup like Blair owned Iraq and all the whiny excuses in the world won’t change that.
So, IDS has the excuse he was mislead by Blair and Cheney in supporting Iraq.
Who is Miliband going to blame for Libya? Who mislead Ned?
You’d have thought that Iraq, which he publicly distanced himself from much to the chagrin of his dear brother, would have taught him to be wary of wars started by the opposition for reasons that aren’t at all apparent. But look a lot like being for diversionary reasons or quick popularity bounces.
Nope. This is Labour ‘doubling up’.
WEegot one major war wrong. Maybe we’ll get lucky with this one. Or, more truthfully still, maybe Cameron will get ‘lucky’ and we can’t afford to hand him that victory.
> WEegot one major war wrong
Yep, and it was Afghanistan! You can’t build a Democratic Nation in an area of Tribes (see Africa for more details).
Libya is Labours war now.
Ed forced Dave to do it.
Hahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!
Riiiiiiiiiight.
You do realise how barking mad you sound ?
No air strikes today and they lose 100 miles !
This operation has NATO written all over it !
Shouldn’t be too long before tens of thousands of civilians are being slaughtered infront of their eyes
AGAIN !
Ay by gum lad.
They don’t like it up em
You do “Big Boy”
Nah. They’re just reflecting Gaddafi’s tactics. The rebels have over-stretched themselves and have 100 miles of road to scurry back to safety.
If Gaddafi wants to reclaim the east of Libya he has to drive across 100 miles of open desert to get there. At which point he’ll be power-washed off the road by depleted Uranium ammunition.
There were air strikes today and last night.
They were never going to be enough but poor Dave can’t do anything else without breaking the UN resolution.
He could do what the Chinese and Russians are doing. Keep his fucking nose well out of it.
to force the rebels to retreat 100 miles Gadaffi’s armour would have had to break cover
yesterday it would have been a turkey shoot !
but today with NATO in charge
FUCK ALL !
No Action Talk Only – twas ever thus…
NATO want a political solution
another ceasefire should do it
gadaffi will agree to it ,NATO will claim a victory for common sense
Gadaffi is free to slaughter his people house by house !
NATO will then issue the standard statement
we must learn lessons from this so it never happens again !
Now which way is it to the dining room ?
Then Gadaffi’s supporters will bomb every target in the west they can get at
and the rebels will also do the same because we betrayed them
it’s a win win situation for mad man and sons !
wot duz NATO stand for ?!?
DUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRR!?!?!?!
So lets get this right.
Dave is prepared to arm Libyan civilians to fight for their democratic right to freedom.
Dave is not prepared to give UK citizens a vote on their own freedom.
Human rights only apply to immigrants to Britain
Not to the people born here !
Our Dave’s a proper legal lad
On Lisbon his hands were tied
And welching on his guarantee
Must have left him mortified
So he won’t send no rebels guns
‘Cos that would be plain naughty
Civilians, though, they’re not the same
He must be fair and sporty
Have you got tank shells winging past your tabs? Have you been tortured?
No, then shut the f**k up. You have so much freedom and rights that it is unreal. Go tour the world to see how well off you are.
Judging by the posts above, looks like Mr Yap is back for a long night of calling everyone tat.
whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine, whine!!
If the tree huf=gging idiots the Greens can win through AV then there’s no way I’m voting for it. Fooking clowns who think the nation can produce enough electricity with bloody windmills.
Mr Cameron said: “If you want to understand climate change, go and see Al Gore’s film, An Inconvenient Truth.”
I didn’t listen to Al Gore – look how I ended up.
I fart in your general direction.
And those windmills are the biggest con ever.
Arming militant islamists sounds like a good idea.
What could possibly go wrong?
Would you buy a used voting system from a politician ?
’nuff said.
AAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
SSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!
Do any of you really think that changing the voting system will have any impact whatsoever on the political culture of the UK?
You are falling into the trap of debating something set up by government as a rous, to stop you considering
1. are there other voting options that may be better – remember it was the government’s choice to consider AV alone.
2. in what way will the electorate gain from this?
3. in what way will democracy be realised?
Our sham democracy is not going to be altered one little bit by this
what is complexe about it? And of course you can only put one name in . Why so frightened of Democracy
So long as you put my name in I don’t care.
We really should have learnt by now from the Expenses scandal -
NEVER LET POLITICIANS MAKE THE RULES.
They’ve obviously spent some time dreaming up a set of rules aimed at getting the result that THEY want, and you can be damned sure that that isn’t the result that you or I would want.
There are very few politicians who genuinely care about the people who they’re supposed to represent. Most politicians are only interested in making their bank balance obscenely fat.
Which U-Turn will I perform today ??
Detractors slag FPTP off as lacking democratic validity, but they never address the complete lack of logical validity in the AV process.
The system assumes that the choices (and relative approval) I give each candidate in a set of five are the same as the choices I’d make if I were presented with a set of four from which to choose. But they aren’t.
Like it or not, people do vote tactically, especially in a system like AV. Tactics change according to circumstance and there is no bigger change in electoral circumstance than the removal of one candidate from the range of choices being offered the voter.
Using the above example my choices wouldn’t change with the loss of the BNP from the list, but I’d certainly start adjusting them once my own choices or the bigger parties start falling by the wayside. In other words my original scores would no longer be valid and thus shouldn’t count.
Nuke The BBC ! and who all sail in her.
LABOUR LEFT THE SHIT, NO ONE ELSE!!!!!!!
I’M NOT IN POWER, I DON’T WANT TO RUN THE COUNTRY!!!!!!!!
But that’s a percentage of the ballot not the percentage of the vote.
If you have a ballot of 500 and someone polls 250 votes that’s 50%; but if 100 ballots were spoiled did they still get 50% or is it 62.5%?
And just to make the point even more clear how this is messed up- with an electorate of 200 and the Conservatives polling 22.7% of the *FPTP* vote that means they had 45.4 people voting for them. Would that 0.4 of a person please come forward.
This reminds of a time when my good friend Elle Mcpherson’s measurements were different by 0.4 inches when compared in metric and imperial with metric being bigger. Use metric for biggers boobs!
I reckon that is completely bogus. 2.6% vote for the BNP and 77% of this transfers to UKIP with 23% going nowhere.
Does AV really work?
Take for example the Scottish constituency of Balamory.
The first round of vote ends: Labour 25.9%
Lib Dems 25.1%
Tory 25%
SNP 24%
SNP drops out and their 2nd preference votes are spread equally between the other 3 candidates which gives: Labour 33.9%
Lib Dems 33.1%
Tory 33%
The Tory then drops out and his 2nd preferences are distributed:
Tory 2nd Preferences are all (25%) to SNP, which would have given the SNP 49% and only needing 1.1% of the Lib Dem voters to win under 2nd preferences BUT they have already been eliminated. What happens now?
Just for fun we look at the 2nd Preferences of Labour & Lib Dem voters. They too gave all their 2nd Preferences to the SNP. This means the SNP have now got 100% of the Vote but didn’t win and were eliminited in the 1st round letting Labour win with 33.9%. Yip, I can see this AV working well in 4 way – or 3 way – marginals.
That is my major concern about AV. It just does work fairly in marginal seats.
50% If you’re going to add the SNP 1st preference and the LibDem, Tory, and Labour 2nd preferences you need to add the other first and second’s together too. But hey why stop there?
Following this logic the SNP can’t have any 3rd or 4th preference votes because everyone voted either first or second for them. If everyone uses all four preference votes then the Labour who voted 3rd for LibDems and voted 4th for Tory and vice versa. Same goes for the other parties. Add all the votes and everyone gets 25% and no-one wins.
If we followed the system proposed by AV then using your maths Labour would win in the third round with 50.4% of the vote not 33.9% otherwise known as – the same outcome as under FPTP.
AV’s not perfect, but are you saying FPTP is better?
Intervention would have worked if it happened straight away when Gadaffi’s forces were disorganised and the rebel’s capacities were unknown. Having an aircraft carrier go around the Med for a bit might have called Gadaffi’s bluff and he would have fucked off quick smart.
Instead, certain dickhead politicians (lol Obama) decided that China and Russia’s approval is more important and wasted two weeks pissing around to get a permission slip from the UN.
We had a chance, we blew it, oh well.
Oh, and speaking of dictatorial twats, if AV means the Gween Party mongs’ votes get more power then it can get stuffed up to the tonsils.
Don’t talk shit all your life.
Gaddafi will only ever leave feet first in a wooden box.
And if Gaddafi gets killed by a US or French or British airstrike, this week, last week or a month ago, the result is the same.
They then OWN Libya and it’s nation building time again with the same predictable Iraq results.
There is no exit strategy, there is no coherent plan and there never could be involving intervention.
It’s a quagmire.
Vote against AV simply because the Clegiron wants it.
Vote at the next election against the three main parties and do it massively.
They are corrupt and self serving.
its 50% of the votes in the last round – you don’t count the people who have no further preference.