January 30th, 2011

The Logic in Balls Denying Reality

The appointment of Ed Balls as shadow chancellor means that deficit denial becomes the central economic policy of the Labour Party. In essence both the Eds intend to argue that it was the banking crisis and only the banking crisis that caused the deficit. In taking this policy direction they repudiate the more sensible realistic policy followed by the last Labour Chancellor, Alistair Darling.

It also flies in the face of statements made by Tony Blair in his memoirs and as recently as last Friday at Davos. Since Balls isn’t an idiot we have to ask ourselves: why is he trying to deny reality? Does he think the voters can be convinced that overspending wasn’t a problem until the banking crisis? Here he is telling Andy Marr there was no structural deficit under Labour:

Clearly both the Eds think they can blame it on the bankers, popular understanding of the deficit is hazy. The huge one-off costs of bailing out the banks and the constant government-debt-bloating-deficit are confused in the popular consciousness. Even the debt and the deficit are confused in many people’s minds. Whenever Ed Miliband is cornered on spending or taxes he reaches for the banker bogeyman – tax them more and it will sort everything out. None of this adds up to anyone with any financial literacy, which unfortunately is a minority of voters, the majority of voters do blame and detest the bankers.

For this argument to make sense of course requires Ed Balls to deny that there is, or ever was, a structural deficit that had to be tackled. Which is exactly what he did on the Marr show today.

Denying the deficit and blaming the government’s debt crisis on the bankers is an attempt to absolve Brown, Balls and the Labour Party of the blame. It thus allows Balls to claim that, since there is no structural deficit, the cuts are unnecessary and ideological. Which is exactly what he does.

The problem for Balls is that the public senses innately that the government under Brown’s chancellorship and premiership was overspending. If Osborne can keep that national memory alive over the next three years the public will forgive him doing what is necessary. If they forget, or prefer to believe Ed Balls’ claim that cuts are not really necessary, they will blame the government for the coming hardships. The deficit blame game will have to be played until the next election.


501 Comments

  1. 1
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Ed Balls is a prize wanker and cannot tell the truth .

    • 2
      Ordinary Joe says:

      Good post Guido. Well put.

      • 51
        Labourunionsbbc we are onr says:

        “both the Eds think they can blame it on the bankers”

        Both ed’s can blame the bankers and deny the problem till they are blue in the face but without the bbc nothing would happen.

        The coalition needs to deal with the traitorous bbc before the vast majority of the public understand the problem, without that they are on a hiding to nothing.

        • 84
          john in cheshire says:

          I couldn’t agree more. And I think many people in our country also think so. One wonders why Messrs Cameron and Hunt don’t ‘do something’ about the truly awful and traitorous bbc.

          • Does he think the voters can be convinced that overspending wasn’t a problem until the banking crisi says:

            They should since Cameron and Osborne didn’t.

            Twats, please whine below this.

          • Osborne's Thorn says:

            I remember thinking at the time that this was sheer madness by Osborne, a cynical grab for votes and it would come back to haunt him.

          • Heir to Blair says:

            It was Cameron copying Blair who did the same thing in 97.

            If Cameron and Osbourne thought they were making a huge mistake they certainly didn’t say so at the time and only changed their minds after the Banks crashed.

          • Ordinary Bloke says:

            fachurs bankers innit

          • G says:

            Today I ‘av been mostly supporting… Andy Murray

          • John says:

            David Blanchflower (former member of the MPC) and Caroline Lucas of the Green Party have argued that there are other ways of tackling the deficit. Balls on Marr was also taking on the Tory argument that the cuts are inevitable… and this is going to be an increasingly attractive argument to people as the Tory cuts bite.

            To classify Balls simply as a “deficit denier” is a bit simplistic and people won’t bite at this ….

          • Osama the Nazarene says:

            Balls, Lucas, Blanchflower, all Socialists / Leftists / Communists / progressives believe that spending money on educashion / health etc is investment. So they are happy to borrow (Communists expropriate / Socialists tax till the pips squak) money for this so called “investment”. Whereas this burden of debt does not bring any return. Money for necessary spending on education and health must come from a prosperous and growing private sector.

            A private sector burdened by a massive public debt will never produce any growth to finance all these good things.

          • Susie says:

            You left off:

            Balls, Lucas, Blanchflower, all Socialists / Leftists / Communists / progressives / LIARS!

          • straw man dum dum says:

            coz dey iz all dem commeenazis innits ?? !? fuud goes im mowth !? !

        • 124
          Once Was Red says:

          The BBC’s output is now so biased it has become a serious danger to the democratic process. Will the Coalition do anything about it? If not, why not?

          • Splooge says:

            No

          • Atlas shrugged says:

            The BBC is not any kind of danger to the democratic process, in fact quite the opposite. Without the BBC democracy would be dead in the water, instead of the dangerous ILLUSION that it has ALWAYS been.

            Do you really think you have a real choice?

            If so, why so?

            Democracy has allowed the last government to get away with literally MURDER. It is not us that benefit from this system of government it is THEM, and of course The BBC.

          • Budgie says:

            Stop whinging and do something about it yourself: don’t buy a TV licence. Just think – you can deny the BBC its poll tax money and use your time more productively into the bargain.

          • annnnonyperson says:

            Caroline Lucas is a nice person. However, just because someone is nice, doesn’t mean they are always right.

        • 176
          Chloe Sal Gerbeeba says:

          The rot at the BBC set in with Reith – another ‘son of the manse’.
          The buggers have been at it for donkey’s years.

      • 122
        Mine d'Boggles says:

        Seconded

      • 223
        Honest View says:

        Fabulous wit. I’ve never laughed so much…”Sorass”! Just so funny.

        • 324
          Susie says:

          Theroux who he?

          (Actually I know who he is, but never watch cheap tacky reality TV so your attempt at wit has fallen flat on its face at Susie Towers).

      • 501
        Old Heathers says:

        Totally agree.

        C’mon, Guido, give us more gems of wisdom like that, as distinct from your usual cheap sneers.

        PS: Keep up the cheap sneers.

    • 4
      Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

      Since Balls isnt a idiot ? A man who believes that you can keep taxing the productive side of the econmy to prop up the state ? A man who didnt know ” Mr Mcbride” , A man who unleashed the forces of hell on Darling ? A man who ran a department that spent 20+million on a school a few years ago and it has now closed ?

      No Ed is not a idiot , He is a deluded fuckin nutcase like his former boss , A man who should never be near the levers of power again .

      • 370
        JRand says:

        and ballsed-up was the raving nutter responsible for drawing up the light touch regulation under which the banks had free rein to bring down the world economy.

        Talking of which Mr F the banksters must take as much blame as Mentalist and his treacherous band, the FCIC report is very clear on where blame lies, human error and supremely arrogant financiers.
        fcic.gov/report

        • 407
          Budgie says:

          Hmm – it wasn’t ‘light touch’. Brown and Balls took the job of sole direct supervision of the banks away from the BoE and gave part of it to the FSA.

          Result? When the Northern Wreck went down the Treasury, the BoE and the FSA all blamed each other, but none of them had direct insight into any of the banks. Unlike under the Tories.

    • 5
      Four-eyed English Genius says:

      I think you are being very unfair to the average prize wanker!

      • 18
        durrrr says:

        “Since Balls isn’t an idiot we have to ask ourselves: why is he trying to deny reality? Does he think the voters can be convinced that overspending wasn’t a problem until the banking crisis?”

        • 110
          DUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRR!! says:

          Osborne said he would match Labour spending so he didn’t think it was a problem until the banking crisis when he changed his mind.

          Try again.

        • 347
          Mike Hunt says:

          Does he think the voters can be convinced that overspending wasn’t a problem until the banking crisis?

          YES

      • 20
        Selohesra says:

        I wasnt aware there was a prize for masturbation – where do I get an entry form? – I’ve never come close to winning anything before but I think I could give this my best shot

        • 27
          P. Doff says:

          Come again?

        • 226
          Hugh ffishingly-Whittlingstool says:

          Marr must think there is: he very nearly fellated Balls this morning on tvAM, after warming up his facial muscles by not letting Andrew Lansley complete a single sentence without being interrupted or harangued.

          Some sort of T-shirt is on offer from the author of this post to the person who produces an objective measure of an interviewer or moderator’s bias, whether in favour of a conversation partner or against.

          I suggest that the unit of bias be called the ‘Dimbleby’.

    • 156
      Sir Stuart Bell-End MP says:

      That may well be true. In fact, let’s be honest, it IS true.

      But I couldn’t give a flying fuck to be honest- just as long as I keep receiving my substantial salary and perks for doing sweet fa!

      Ker-ching!!!!

    • 187
      Up sh1t creek says:

      Labour “didn’t” cause the UK’s recession, or the run on the banks, or the insane house price inflation, or the devaluation of the Pound, or the selling of half the UK taxpayers gold reserves….. it was all caused by a “Worldwide” problem (meant to say G20 engineered problem)…. Even the BoE Governor Mervyn King is trying to blame anyone but the BoE for the crisis the BoE helped create with Labour’s help. Meryn after all, is a Gordon Brown “yes man”.

      • 394
        Meryn after all, is a Gordon Brown “yes man”. says:

        So why hasn’t Cameron sacked him ?

        Try again.

      • 481
        Hugh Janus says:

        No more clips of the utterly repellant and thuggish Balls please. If he (along with McBust and Bliar) appear on any kind of screen within my field of vision I have the overwhelming urge to break things. If, however, it could be arranged to show them on the other side of a set of stout window bars then I think most people would welcome this.

    • 190
      Crikey says:

      On every single occasion every coalition spokeman must lay the blame where it belongs, with Brown and Balls. It doesn’t matter what topic is under discussion. If a repeated lie is believed then a repeated truth stands a better chance of being believed.

    • 214
      Up sh1t creek says:

      Does Red Ed Balls finally admit he helped create the UK’s banking crisis?

      (No he didn’t but a nice edit all the same).

      • 396
        Dave's Poodle Army says:

        Of course he helped fuck it up by letting the bankers fuck the economy, problem for you is Dave NEVER railed against the bankers before the crash either.

        Dave would have done the exact same thing.

        • 415
          Budgie says:

          No, the Tories would have left the BoE in charge of bank supervision. Then at least the BoE would have had the power and the responsibility together. It worked before.

          Try again.

          • Dave's Poodle Army says:

            THe BoE were just as culpable for their stupidity in not even noticing the bank crash was coming even though they had been aspecifically warned about the credit default swaps storm coming. And at no point before the crash did the Tories cry for increased bank regulation.

            Try again.

          • Budgie says:

            The BoE were no longer in sole charge of supervision of the banks – thanks to Brown and Balls.

            Try again.

    • 318
      low resolution fox says:

      It’s one, or possibly both of the following reasons:

      a) he takes immense pleasure in redistribution of unearned money, specifically the pleasure of taking credit for giving cretins large amounts of cash (ie hero worship)

      or

      b) he is an educated man having been to both Oxford and Harvard, with extensive links to the finance industry. While he talks about detesting the bankers, he would have to have borrowed the money from the finance industry in the first place. Is he encouraging debt in order to further the likelihood of getting a sexy job in the finance world on his exit from the greasy pole-climbing world of politics? Paid for by the debt interest incurred by Labour

      • 423
        Budgie says:

        or

        Balls is trying to justify his own stupid mistakes when he was the power behind Brown’s throne. Especially since Brown was the bankers’ friend – remember all the bankers visits to No 11?

    • 379
      Senator Eoghan "Incitatus" Harris says:

      I warned that one of the most deluded socialist dogmas, was “the mission to save the world”.

    • 483
      Geoffrey says:

      Guido’s analysis goes right to the heart of the key issue. Alas my experience of the British Electorate since returning from a lengthy time abroad is that it is close to infantile. Moreover a large section of it is in thrall to statist patronage of one kind or another. This will be a one-term government

    • 496
      Sir Barrington Minge says:

      Since Balls isn’t an idiot……

      Maybe not, but he dores a splendid impression of a complete cretin

      Socialist Wanker = BALLS

  2. 3
    marco polo says:

    So Guido you think we would have to be making this level of cuts if it wasn’t for bailing out the banks. What planet are you on? Lots wrong with Balls but your sums don’t add up either.

    • 17

      The bank bail-out – which this blog opposed – was financed largely by QE (a.k.a. printing money) and doesn’t form part of the structural deficit. The cuts, which are really very limited, aim to tackle the structural deficit.

      You are one of the confused.

      • 32
        Sly Renard says:

        Back of the net.

      • 33
        Cato Street Conspirator says:

        So what happened with the banks has had absolutely no impact on the way the economy is? No impact anywhere in the world?

        • 40

          That is not what was said. We’re discussing tackling the strucutural deficit which Balls says doesn’t exist.

          • Spank Sinatra says:

            Precisely! Although it has to be accepted that the collapse of the banking system did lead to a very abrupt slowdown in the economy which made revenues fall significantly and exacerbated the structural deficit however the key element is that the country was already experiencing a shortfall in income against expenditure even at the height of the boom (I think the figure was approx £46billion over 3 years) responsibility for which can only be laid at blinky’s door. It was their profligacy which has left us totally screwed – a fact which the country must never be allowed to forget.

            Off to pub…….

          • That is the objective truth. That has to be honed into a better line than “we’re clearing up the mess Labour left”.

          • Dave's Poodle Army says:

            That is the objective truth. That has to be honed into a better line than “we’re clearing up the mess Labour left that we agreed to match spending with at the time”.

          • Budgie says:

            Agreed, the Tories were stupid. That makes Labour (and Balls) stupid too.

          • so we replaced one bunch of morons with another says:

            Agreed, which makes this who deficit denial wank utterly pointless.

        • 139
          Warren Buffet says:

          When you are spending vastly more than you earn as a nation, any economic shock will lead to problems. The banking crisis was simply the trigger that exposed the economic incompetence of these progressive political regemes.

      • 184
        Marco polo says:

        Fraid not Guido you are just plain wrong if you think that the bank bailout was somehow paid for by QA (?!?). If this was such a surefire wheeze then the Irish printing presses would be clattering away and they would not need to be borrowing squillions form the Eurobank. Either you genuinely believe this nonsense you are spouting in which case you really need to resit your O levels or you believe the state is too big and needs cutting down to size. No problem with the latter it is a valid position but don’t pretend that the deficit is nothing to do with the banks and all down to Brown.

        • 231
          6EQUJ5 says:

          Sorry Marco, wrong again. Ireland couldn’t use the printing presses as Ireland are under the control of the European Central Bank…Otherwise all the PIIGS would be able to solve their financial problems.

        • 233
          Anonymous says:

          What’s your analysis then Einstein?

        • 234
          6EQUJ5 says:

          Sorry Marco, wrong again. Ire land couldn’t use the printing presses as Ire land are under the control of the European Central Bank…Otherwise all the PIIGS would be able to solve their financial problems.

          • Moderater (chief) says:

            I did not get a fucking pay rise this year.

          • Cynical-old-bag says:

            My husband went without a pay rise for almost 7 years during the last recession.

            Look on the bright side – it could be worse.

          • Ed Balls says:

            I will tell any lie, bend the truth, repeat my propaganda to the millions of brainwashed tribal labour voters, wind up the students and use the Unions to create trouble all over this land.

            For I am a Fabian and we are out to remold the earth and its peoples into our Fabian Utopia – we will use revolution and evolution to nudge, push, then force people to behave in a way we see fit.

          • Gideon Osboobery says:

            We pledged to match Labour spending.

          • annnnonyperson says:

            Labour really have let themselves become hostages to fortune, haven’t they?

            Somehow, they have allowed two of the Idiots-in-Chief who helped Brown devise his dangerous economic and banking policies to become the leaders of the Labour Party in opposition.

            Utterly crackers.

          • Yvette says:

            That’s exactly what I think.

          • Mike Hunt says:

            Last time I had one was when I changed jobs, and I was lucky to do that.

            Automatic pay rises only happen in the public sector.

          • 6EQUJ5 says:

            OK Mr Mod.

            @Marco Polo. EU countries are controlled by the ECB, therefore cannot print money.

        • 280

          Bit silly Marco – as all have pointed out your rather schoolboy error. Ireland no longer has control of the currency printing press.

          • Marco polo says:

            Well of course as part of the Eurozone Ireland couldn’t act alone to print money but my point was that Guido’s simply farcical suggestion that the cost of bailing out the bankers was somehow cleared by QA was just that farcical. If billions of debt could so easily be wiped out then everyone would be at it. The seemingly inconvenient truth (for many on here) is that the debt we now have is made up largely of the bank bail out plus debts built up by Brown and Co prior to the bail out and then added to by measures taken to stop what would have been an almighty crash. So is there a massive debt – Yes. Is it all Brown’s fault – well about 50% his fault . Do we need to pay it off at some point – of course. Will slashing spending help reduce the debt – seems obvious – unless the cuts are so severe you starve the patient to death rather than cure him.

          • Susie says:

            Flail about all you like Marco… you’ve been TOLD. We either pay off the debt and reduce the deficit or a bigger boy will do it for us, he’s called the IMF.

          • Budgie says:

            Marco, who was in charge of the banks? Who was in charge of the whole economy? Who boasted of his control of the economy? You guessed – Gordon Brown (advised by Ed Balls).

    • 197
      Up sh1t creek says:

      Twat Ed claims the UK had NO structural deficit before the banking problem… but were borrowing money like it went out of fashion “for investment”. The public sector is NEVER an investment, it is a loss Did they not teach in PPE how to read a balance sheet and the difference between profit (private sector) and loss (public sector)? Looks like they didn’t.

      • 348
        Blogger says:

        i hate these fuckin’ champagne socialists coming out with utter crap and forgetting the fact that every socialist government always runs out of money (not their own – please note, but the public’s) in the end

        they also always end up with more on the dole than when they started out

        they also like to crush aspiration and lead to a wider gulf between the haves and have not’s

        “hey poor person – there’s the queue, join it!”

      • 398
        Dave's Poodle Army says:

        Twats Dave and Osborne agreed that the UK had NO structural deficit before the banking problem… because they both agreed to match Labour spending and agreed to borrowing money like it went out of fashion “for investment”. The public sector is NEVER an investment, even though Dave and Osborne pledged to MATCH that investment. Did they not teach in PPE how to tell if your toryboy masters agreed with the policy you are now pretending was the problem ? Looks like they didn’t.

        • 436
          Budgie says:

          That’s because the Tories are not my masters. The Tories were told they were stupid when they agreed to match Labour’s profligacy. That makes labour stupid for their own profligacy as well.

    • 301
      Dave S says:

      NuLab ran the UK economy in deficit mode for a decade, the basic model (rounding up to the nearest £100 billion) was earn £500Bn, spend £700Bn and borrow £200Bn. This was true before the banking crisis and it was true after the banking crisis.

    • 321
      low resolution fox says:

      Guide is pretty much right as usual. To begin with, the main problem was that despite all of Labours tax increases, they always spent more than they earnt. (was it 2003 that this all began?)

      If it was ‘only’ the banking bail out it wouldn’t be quite so much of a problem. Trouble is, even with all the cuts announced so far this doesn’t straighten out the problem that we spend more than we raise in tax.

  3. 6
    Cato Street Conspirator says:

    ‘Does he think the voters can be convinced that overspending wasn’t a problem until the banking crisis?’

    Well, it wasn’t a problem as far as the Tories were concerned. Until the banking crisis they were going to stick to Labour spending plans.

    • 12
      Gideon's Wake says:

      Here it is: Daily Mail, 15 Feb 2008 –

      ‘Shadow Chancellor George Osborne today declared he would stick by Labour’s spending plans despite pressure from Tory MPs for more “Thatcherite” tax cuts.

      ‘In a keynote speech, Mr Osborne refused to bow to his party’s Right wing and said he would not pledge unfunded tax cuts at the next general election.’

      • 173
        PD77 says:

        Considering the timing of the article, it wasn’t until a little later in 2008 that the reality of the situation started to be felt, no one could really promise anything on either cuts or spending.

        Plus the solution by Darling and the rest of the Labour government of the days solution was to spend more and bail out the banks, so surely the blame should lay at the feet of the previous and not the current government for both the deficit and the cuts that are needed to balance the books.

        Also seeing how we have only cuts to spending and hardly any on tax, it is quite the opposite of what Osborne was committed to when he was in opposition without all the facts and not the situation when in government with the facts (and that helpful note left by Liam Byrne which summarised the situation quite succinctly).

        • 430
          Cameron and Osborne didn't think the deficit was a problem until the Banks Fucked up. Fact says:

          they committed themselves to matching Labour spending in opposition before the bank crash.

          all the weaseling in the world from you won’t change the truth of that.

          • Budgie says:

            Correct – Cameron and Osborne were as bonkers as Labour. As even Tory MPs knew at the time, as your quote points out.

    • 21

      You are right, that was a strategic error by Osborne where he let short-term political tactics take precedence over economic strategy. Or maybe he never really believed it and was lying. Suspect the latter.

      • 28
        Gideon's Wake says:

        Osborne a liar. Well, who would have thought it? And you think he’s telling the truth now?

        • 68
          Engineer says:

          Given that Labour ministers, spin doctors and back-benchers were not averse to using lies to gain political advantage – and sometimes against their own – the faux outrage about the opposition of that day fighting fire with fire is a bit laughable.

          • Gideon's Wake says:

            I’ve got equal contempt for all the parties so saying because so-and-so lies it’s okay for so-and-so to lie doesn’t constitute a compelling case as far as I’m concerned.

          • Engineer says:

            A party that routinely tells lies can’t really cry foul when others use the same tactic.

            Is lying acceptable in politics? No, it isn’t – but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

          • where were the austerity and cuts plans before the crash ? says:

            and it doesn’t mean it was a lie

        • 130
          Mine d'Boggles says:

          Haven’t we forgotten that the Tories were labelled the Nasty Party, and the name stuck. They could not keep on being nasty and had to ease up. When they did so, everyone jumped up and down saying Liar! Liar! Pants on fire! Can’t have it both ways folks. The Tories had to win that election.

          • Nick Clegg says:

            A good thing Cameron didn’t win it then or I wouldn’t be able to dictate my favourite Policies into Law.

          • Honest View says:

            Agreed. The main thing was to win the election before the Left created a totally dependent client state.
            You couldn’t enter the election without a certain amount of reassurance that you wouldn’t stop all the goodies people had grown used to taking from the generous hands of NuLab.
            Even so, being economical with the truth did not win an outright victory. Telling it as it is would have meant certain defeat.

          • Mike Hunt says:

            For this we have to thank the liebour propaganda machine from the 1990s, helped by some very foolish behaviour by such as the Hamiltons, Archer etc and aided by Spitting Image.

            Balls is indeed not a fool, although I doubt if he actually believes the ‘no deficit’ lie.

          • WHERE WERE THE CUTS AND AUSTERITY MEASURES BEFORE THE BANK CRASH YOU MONGS ? says:

            What part of Cameron didn’t win a majority don’t you twats get ?

            He was either lying about the deficit or just didn’t care about it.

            Either way he’s been caught being as full of shit on this as you lot are.

          • tatspotting says:

            Calm down, dear.

      • 99
        If it was a problem he wouldn't have matched Labour Spending then changed his mind at the bank crash says:

        If Osborne lied about the deficit then why should we believe him now?
        Or maybe it was the snow that confused him even back then?

        • 138
          Anonymous says:

          Greece, Ireland, Iceland.

          • Austerity Works! says:

            Doing great aren’t they ? These would include the ones who did everything the IMF told them and are now economic basket cases.

            Good example.

          • Grumpy Old Man says:

            Er….not quite. They were economic basket cases BEFORE the IMF told them to cut up their credit cards. The economies riding the global slow-down are those who earn more than they spend – China, Australia, India, etc.

          • Anonymous says:

            Well said Grumpy. Who would have thought the road to a economic happiness was to spend less than you earn. If only you had told McDoom this 10 years ago you could have saved us a lot of pain and misery.

          • Austerity Works! says:

            Er…. not quite. They all agreed to massive cuts programmes and austerity measures, their economies worsened after that and the speculators still came after them.

            Their austerity measures strangled growth.
            Strangled as in negative growth. Ringing any bells yet ?

          • Budgie says:

            Cutting government spending does not ‘strangle growth’. That is why Labour’s Chancellor, Darling, cut a tax, VAT, – to stimulate growth. In fact it is government spending that strangles growth.

          • pumpy old van says:

            and that’s why Osborne put VAT up

          • Budgie says:

            Yes, because Cameron is ‘heir to Bliar’ and not a small government Tory like Thatcher. And because he and Osborne were left with a statist Labour Brown Balls-up to clean out. Like before. Every time.

        • 315
          Dave S says:

          Gordon Brown in the UK and Alan Greenspan in the US were responsible for financial regulation (or lack of it) for over a decade, during which the financial crisis bubbled up to it’s inevitable conclusion.

          Here is an extract from Brown’s Mansion House speech in 2007, where he proudly proclaims his continued opposition to any significant growth in financial regulation.

          “… enhancing a risk based regulatory approach, as we did in resisting pressure for a British Sarbannes-Oxley after Enron and Worldcom …”

    • 131
      Rexel 56 says:

      Er, Labour says: the sun will keep shining and we will keep spending. Tories say, if the sun keeps shining we will keep spending too. Sun stops shining. Labour says, fuck it we’ll keep spending anyway – might make the sun come out again eventually. Tories say, shit we’ll have to cut spending or we’ll go bust. Once it’s safe the sun can come out again.

      There’s the difference, the response post-crisis not the statements pre-crisis.

      • 135
        the banks had nothing to do wi.. oops! says:

        by before the crisis you mean before the banking crisis

        • 143
          Anonymous says:

          The Banking Crisis only happened because the borrowing boom – which McDoom encouraged – had reached the end of the road. It’s chicken ‘n’ egg. Did the bust cause the banking crisis or did the banking crisis cause the bust?

          • Honest View says:

            The Banking crisis was the moment that the pretence became unsustainable.

          • Mike Hunt says:

            Indeed: it was an effect, not the cause.

          • The Facts says:

            Nobody forced the Banks to sell and repackage worthless shit at a massive profit. They did it because it earned them Billions in bonuses safe in the knowledge that the taxpayer would bail them out when their scam was discovered.

          • Budgie says:

            Why are statist trolls so ignorant? The banks that “sell and repackage worthless shit” were American banks, not British banks. And the American banks were forced to take on worthless mortgages by the Community Re-investment Act passed and enhanced by American statists like Clinton.

          • Hooray for the Bankers! says:

            RBS made billions from CDS and CDO’s and are still making billions, as did all the banks who were bailed out and some of those who weren’t. Which is why Cameron is considering separating the investment bits from the retail bits of UK Banks.

            So that’s a big fail on your part. Sorry, you’re clearly full of shit.

            Our septic friend also doesn’t have a clue about his own countries actions as the CRA excuse was long ago debunked as banker and Republican apologist bullshit

            http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2008/04/yet-again-it-wa.html

            Again, you’re proved to be full of shit.

  4. 7
    AngryEnglishJon says:

    See Balls is auditioning in the remake of ‘Liar Liar’

  5. 8
    Johan says:

    It was a quite incredible show… asked about the structural deficit he denied there was one. Cue a repeat of the question from (an incredulous sounding) Marr… again the denial. There may have been a third run through but by that stage I was running to the door…

    Heaven help us when they regain power.

  6. 9
    AngryEnglishJon says:

    Have you seen the Beeb site. They are changing the theme music for ‘The Politics Show’ to ‘The Red Flag’

    • 16
      Axe The Telly Tax says:

      Even the Liebour party are too embarrassed to sing it at the party conference anymore.

      • 188
        Grammar School Boy says:

        Oh not they’re effin not!

        What was it Kinnokio said? We’ve got our party back.

        Well aaaawwwwwwrrriiiggghhhhhhtttttttttttttt!!!!!!

    • 34
      Ampers says:

      Article in the electronic telegraph today, the BBC are asking the Government to release £25,000,000 (twenty-five million pounds) from the charity fund to feed starving third world children. Their claim is that it helps these third world people to listen to the BBC.

      I am going to need a lot more piano wire and lamposts because after all the politicians, I will be aiming at the BBC directors.

      • 167
        No Pasaran says:

        Threaten to add a question about telly tax retention to the AV referendum & watch the Beeb change from Fabian behemoth to model of impartiality.

        The Anna Raccoon blog has a good find about a blatant lie the Beeb told about Met Office warnings to the Gov.

      • 182
        PD77 says:

        We can do that when those people in the third world start paying the licence fee, then that can justify the fact that they listen to a service paid for by extortion by the British public.

  7. 10
    Anonymous says:

    Fraid Guido is just another right winger intent on slashing public spending at all costs. Of course Brown is not blameless he let the banks run rings round him but the deficit is down to paying off the bankers bills. The public in their hearts know this and will get Flakey and Floosy out sooner than you think.

    • 23
      Ampers says:

      Don’t be daft! We didn’t bail out the banks to the tune of four point eight trillion pounds!

    • 26

      “Guido is just another right winger intent on slashing public spending at all costs.”

      Guilty as charged.

      • 31
        Gideon's Wake says:

        Osborne too. There’s your answer.

      • 50
        northern convert says:

        Thank god for you. I am from the north (labour heartland, supposedly) & traditionaly voted labour. Then you get people who come from the upper classes, learn politics out of a book, then see where they can earn the most money. Screw beliefs… just give me power… ie Ed & Mrs Balls et al. Does Ed Milliband remotly think i could ever vote for a party with Ed Balls in it? you might as well give Gordon & Mandy a job too! Right wingers slashing public spending at all costs sound good to me!!!

        • 236
          smoggie says:

          These days the Labour Party is full of Oxbridge public school types with the exception of the token working man such as Prescott (now a Lord) and Johnson (now unemployed).

          Ed Balls is a chancer who smells power.

          • Mike Hunt says:

            Why are all party higher-ups ex-public school / oxbridge type (Bliar, Balls, Harperson etc as well as Cameron and Osbourne)?

            Why has ‘social mobility’ stopped?

            Shirley Williams has to shoulder the main responsibility by destroying the system that gave bright kids for any background the chance to shine-

            GRAMMAR SCHOOLS.

            John Major will go down as the last ever Grammar School educated Prime Minister. Only the Public Schools can produce people with the drive to get to the top. Intelligence unfortunately does not enter into the equation, which is why we are in mess we are.

      • 165
        The Hoon says:

        What about growth you piss artiste,Guido ??

        • 206
          I'm Ed Ballsup, I haven't got a clue but Al Ja Beeba think I'm an economic guru, like my union pals says:

          Growth tends to follow when you liberate people by reducing their tax to spend the money they earn on what THEY want to as opposed to what a bunch of outright/diversity workers do on the pet left wing fuck up projects……..

          They tend to be able to buy more things, which stimulates growth, they also tend to save, which reduces the debt burden. It stimulates the aspiration to better oneself and thus the entrepreneurial spirit flourishes.

          Do keep up, I know you’re a lefty and all so are inhibited by basic powers of common sense

          • Blogger says:

            yea “growth” to that lefty twat = 1. recreating a “future jobs fund”, 2. lending money to certain “winning” British companies 3. doubling the number of new public sector jobs 4. handing out tax credits so poor Mums go back to work whilst their kids are looked after by school dropouts 5. encouraging people use the power of gearing to “have a better life” 6….er um, the IMF are knocking at the door in which case all the above have been cancelled…and we have been booted out of power again…for a generation this time

    • 114
      Socialism has murdered 150 million human beings pride says:

      Notice that the zanu trolls are now pushing the Ball’s shit as the party line.

    • 217
      bergen says:

      No.The deficit was caused by spending more than tax receipts in a time of growth in the economic cycle.Brown justified this folly by declaring he had abolished boom and bust.When the recession came,tax revenues collapsed,calls on the exchequer increased and we were already overspent.

      Balls invokes Keynes.Keynes would have considered him a fool.

  8. 11
    We're in deep shit says:

    It really is quite staggering the lengths some people, who should know better, will go to to avoid the facts.

    You can imagine right up to the last general election. All these debt collecting agencies kept sending them letters asking for payment. Brown n co would hide them behind the fridge in the hopes they would go away.
    Now all they we doing is infecting everyone else with their poison.

    Depressed.

  9. 13
    nohandsclapping says:

    Lets all be brutally honest:

    1. There is a structural defecit from overspending.
    2. There is a massive debt from bailing out the banks.
    3. The last government is responsible for some of the problem but not all of it.
    4. Ideology does drive some of Osborne’s approach.
    All told this is thus far too complicated for most journalists and commentators who just want “soundbite” left good/bad, right good/bad lives.

  10. 14
    Do as I say, not as I do. says:

    Bentley motors gave Tim Yeo the use of a Bentley for 7 days. He declares this as being worth £1,000. A google search shows he would be doing well to hire a Bentley for less than £700 a day. (£4,900 over 7 days)

    And what is the Chairman of the Energy and Climate Change Select Committee doing driving around in a gas guzzler anyway?

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/110124/yeo_tim.htm

    • 42
      Velly strange says:

      He was loaned the Bentley on the 10th August 2010. His next entry shows him to be at Les Bordes Golf Club Saint Laurent-Nouan, France (one of the world’s finest golf courses) between 13-14 August 2010. Another free gift which he estimates to be worth £750.

      I wonder why Bentley loaned him a motor to go to France to have a round of Golf and why did one of the world’s finest golf courses put him up for free?

      What is the non-executive chairman of Eco City Vehicles plc up to?

      • 66
        Labourunionsbbc we are onr says:

        Might have helped sell Bently’s to the millionairs at the millionairs golf club, thereby helping the workers in Brumyland to stay in work.

        • 75
          Anonymous says:

          Nope. Purpose of visit: Holiday.

          • Labourunionsbbc we are onr says:

            Your missing my point, I’m not saying he was involved with curbside car sales, just teh fact that when such a boss car is parked up for all to see it might just tempt one or two rich fuc’ks from not buying a booring merc or beema, and go for Bentley instead.

            I would, wouldn’t you?

    • 44
      Do as we say, not as we do. says:

      Need you ask?

    • 142
      The not so green, green minister says:

      Tim Yeo the former environment minister has previous in dealings with 16 mpg Bentley.

      http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2007/03/tim-yeo-cruel-victim-of-green-practical.html

    • 307
      Peter Carter-Fuck says:

      Tim fucking Yeo is a prize shit. Come the revolution he’ll be dangling from a lamp post, choking on his own blood as the piano wire cuts through his fleshy jowls. Oh yes.

    • 388
      Senator Eoghan "Incitatus" Harris says:

      Learning about gas guzzling just as a former Marxists like myself are more sceptical of the soft seductions of socialism, particularly its addiction to the belief that society can be perfected — provided you spend enough public money because I was that socialist but am not now.

  11. 15
    Ampers says:

    Well we know the average Labour voter lacks a lot of intelligence in these matters and tend to believe their masters. However, the amount of floating voters – the ones who are walking up to the facts of political life are increasing, hence the coalition rather than the blind tribal votes.

    I agree that Osborne has to continue to remind the voters.

    However there is one skill that has always been sorely lacking with the Tories, and that is of propaganda. The left have always been better than the right at spinning propaganda. It is about time the Tories woke up to this and started to fight back.

    I remember I told a young banker “If people spit at you at parties it’s because you are a banker, not because you are black (he was a fellow traveller from Africa). He laughed and said, “It’s OK, I tell people I’m an estate agent!”.

    • 47
      That's MISTER pleb to you! says:

      The rate that Cameroon & Co. are alienating their traditional voters, even if they can convince some floating voters of their argument, they may simply stand still as far as the numbers of votes go.

      And lets face it, with Liebour voters, even if their candidate were to be rooting through their wallet whilst shagging their wife up the ar*e AND kicking them in the nuts with their free leg, they would STILL vote for them! Things don’t look too good at the next election.

      • 237
        Honest View says:

        It’s a bit early to say, but I can’t see the traditional Labour voter ever being convinced by the Coalition, or the experimental lefty Lib voter wanting to give them another go, or a true Conservative wanting another dose of Cameron, so on the whole, whatever happens to the economy (and a sluggish growth is all I see it fit for), I reckon New NuLab will be in again next time, ready to **** it all up again.

      • 290
        Pickled Wizard says:

        and if they dont vote, liebour manage to place a postal vote on their behalf just to be safe

  12. 19
    Ed Balls says:

    There’s no def- e- sit here……. ladies & gentleman….. Move along! Move along!

  13. 22
    Gordon Brown says:

    This afternoon i will be a oil painting.

  14. 23
    ed ballbag says:

    I r r r rrrrresent thththat ststastatement BB. Our core voters bbbbelieve anything we tell them

  15. 25
    John Maynard Keynes says:

    F**kwits! When I wrote my books on economics I intended governments to generate a surplus in boom years, and to only create a moderate deficit in bust years. That’s sustainable.

    Where Balls’ retarded idea of making a deficit in boom years and then making a hyper-deficit in bust years came from I’ll never know…When he gets up here there’ll be words to be had. I tells ya.

    • 204
      Anonymous says:

      He got the idea from The New York Times and George Soros.

      If we had a deficit of £160billion last year and at the same time print £200billion out of thin air, does that mean the deficit would have been £360billion without the printed money? That one’s always confused me.

    • 312
      Peter Carter-Fuck says:

      Is there KY in hell Maynard, or does the devil dry fuck you?

  16. 29
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Guido , What was the auctal cash cost of bailing out the banks ?

    • 46
      Anonymous says:

      Why, are you offering to pay it off Billy?

    • 53

      £76bn of shares in Royal Bank of Scotland and the Lloyds Banking Group; indemnifying the Bank of England against losses incurred in providing more than £200bn of liquidity support; guaranteeing up to £250bn of wholesale borrowing by banks to strengthen liquidity; providing £40bn of loans and other funding to Bradford & Bingley and the Financial Services Compensation Scheme; and insurance cover of over £280bn for bank assets.

      £850bn.
      But that’s figures from the ‘Indecent’, erm, ‘Independent.’

      They assume the banks are like their customers and have taken the money and spent it on a Plasma TV and a holiday in Jamaica.
      But they aren’t. They are repaying the real loans by drawing on the cheap lending offered by QE, to lend to us at a much higher rate, so boosting their profits. They also have to capitalise and hold higher levels of real assets for when they F*ck it all up again.
      And that figure precludes assets and treats all debt as toxic, which the majority are not. Not now anyway. It also assumes we can’t just call in our debts, or stop guaranteeing free{ish} money to banks. We can.

      As both Darling and Osborne realised from week one the only fast way out of a recession, with falling house prices and stagnant growth, was by letting the banks behave exactly as they had before, so generating the taxable profits that keep UK borrowing low. Banks profits are just numbers and can be made by a laptop.
      To wait to build a decent UK manufacturing base would take about ten years.

      • 333
        Fred Bloggs says:

        Agree with Bill and the numbers look about right.

        As long as the Lloyds and RBS do OK, the shares will be sold at a profit and all of the guarantees will expire without having been used. So in this sense and in this case, we will not have lost anything.

        The real cost of the bailout has been the low interest rates which have allowed banks to borrow cheap and lend dear. This has been assisted by QE which pushed down longer maturity interest rates.

        True, that has supposedly helped the economy. But who knows since none of us can borrow at the rate that banks can. And we get paid a shitty interest rate on our capital. This is a hidden subsidy that also helps mortgage holders so the banks are not the only beneficiaries.

        So it’s a mixed bag.

        The main way that the banks can be argued to have caused the deficit is in the way the tax on bonuses and profits in 2008/9 fell significantly and all of this revenue was lost. The fact that we were so dependent on this form of tax is another bag of worms altogether.

      • 383
        Up sh1t creek says:

        Show us (taxpayers) the money.

        • 469
          Jac"qui" Dromey says:

          Doesn’t Harriet look marvellous above? The bright and intelligent former public schoolgirl being the brains behind Gordon the mere scotchman!

  17. 29
    knocking the ball into Ball's court says:

    “If they forget, or prefer to believe Ed Balls’ claim that cuts are not really necessary, they will blame the government for the coming hardships. The deficit blame game will have to be played until the next election.”

    Yes, the next three years really will be that boring.

  18. 35
    Stop talking Balls says:

    Osborne pledged to match Labour’s spending plans right up until the bailout. He has never said what he would have done instead of bailing the banks out (let the entire economy collapse, perchance?) and he certainly shows no sign of not kow-towing to the banks now

  19. 36
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    From the blog “The Slog”
    http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/after-delusional-davos-its-back-to-the-real-world.
    A Warts-and-all take on the Global economic situation which is well worth reading.

    Blinky is not an idiot per se, but he has that kind of powerful intellect that runs on rails, and thus is impervious to the idea that a changing situation perchance may need a changed solution – famously unlike the Lefty demigod Keynes. Instead, he changes, denies and cherry-picks facts to fit his preferred ideological solution. He thus turns himself into an idiot, and a hardworking idiot is the most dangerous form of humanity alive.

    • 43

      Yes we’d be much safer with lazy idiots.

    • 69

      Balls has always been of the mortgage school.
      If you assume the UK is a person then its quite acceptable to borrow £500bn on interest only for a nice house today and worry about the final payment in 25 years time.

      His only new take is to sub-prime himself. Seeing as the Uk is ageless, why not borrow 175% mortgage on the country over 100 years. When the principle come due
      A} It will be much less due to 100 years of inflation.
      B} He won’t be around to care
      C} There’s never any need to cut anything. Just raise taxes if rates rise. Only need to cover the interest.

      That’s the WW2 line. We borrowed 500 x GDP and it never did us any harm.
      Except, of course, it did. We didn’t escape from our WW2 debt caused lack of investment drain until the 80′s. And it ignores the wonderful, Labour inspired NHS, was paid for by the hated Americans under the Marshall plan. if the yanks hadn’t been so concerned about the Ruskies the NHS would have stopped after a year.

      • 108
        Grumpy Old Man says:

        Err… Bill. Wasn’t GB (as it then was) excluded from the Marshall Plan as the Labour Government refused to join in? I’m happy to becorrected on that one.

        • 189

          GOM, You are mistaken.
          The USSR refused the loans.

          The UK received the most amount of money from the Americans. Far, far more than France. In fact, almost as much as France and Germany combined.

          UK -$3297 millions of $
          Germany $1448
          France $2296

          This was FREE money. It was foreign aid. it was used to fund the NHS. What the socialists did with the rest i don’t know. The hearts of our cities were bomb sites until well into the 60′s.
          When the left complain about the evil Americans and how they forced us to sell all our assets to fund their industrial-military complex they should remember that the UK defaulted on its first world war loans to America. About $3 billion at 1916 prices. We never paid that money back.
          That’s why they took all our cash in 1940.

          After that ran out..they just gave us stuff. Again for free. All our lend -lease was free. About $472 billion at today’s prices.

          Our war debt was run up after WW2 ended once Japan was defeated. Congress stopped payments, but the USA sold us whatever supplies were already in the UK for 10% of their value and gave the UK the most generous loan over 50 years fixed at 2%.

          • Ian 'The Moose' Abrahams says:

            Not only that but the UK took industrial materials from Ethiopia in the second World War and shipped it to Sri Lanka (as was) and never paid for it. Remember that the next time you hear George Galloway complaining about loans being repaid to the US.

  20. 37
    blackbyle says:

    Remember Hesletine’s jibe its not Brown its BALLS – plus ca change but We are mired in their fiscal ordure- but Mr + Mrs Tower Block are wretchedly sustained in their ignorance of the simple,Real world & the “Cole-ition” (Clegg)fucked speak !

  21. 41
    we are in a mess says:

    Maybe if the banks and bankers were not so reviled some of them might might pop out from behind the parapets to actually comment on the lines you have written Guido. The coalition has been quite silent on the subject with the two Eds able to sound off at will.

    Even the 1977 situation where the UK was bailed out by the IMF is not comparable as our debt now dwarfs whatever funds they possess (we have promised them billions too). Equally in 1977 the majority of the electorate did not comprehend the economics but then at least politicians could be trusted.

    If anything Plan B should be articulated, even though it is apocalyptic as any bankruptcy is. The US can continue with a large debt but only because the Dollar is the world’s reserve currency but this cannot continue for ever. I also think that Davos was a waste of space as the very rich sovereign funds are quite happy with the status quo – Europe and US with big debt and Rest of World mostly OK. This imbalance must also have an impact of why we are where we are now.

  22. 45
    Ed Balls says:

    Why is this not tagged totty watch ?

  23. 52
    Martin Day says:

    This Conservative -led coalition is full of deficit deceivers,and Guido Fawkes has been conned as well

    • 117
      Socialism has murdered 150 million human beings pride says:

      Yeah the Tories are scum.

      They are peddling 95% the same shit as Labour.

  24. 55
    Lord Taylor and Miss Louise says:

    Meanwhile getting back to Sunday sleaze. It seems that Lord Taylor of Warwick got married for 24 days, fleeced the woman for $50,000 and never consumated the marriage. Lord Taylor would not turn the heating on so Miss louise would not take her kit off. He also invited his gay nephew to the wedding even though he had had nothing to do with him before, excepting the use of his Nephew’s address on his expenses.

    Miss Louise does seem a bit odd though. There are some great real estate bargains in Florida.

    http://www.realestateyvonnelouise.com/

  25. 58
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Ok , If you could see one poliction waterboarded who would it be ?

  26. 59
    Gordon Brown says:

    What deficit? I left the coalition a golden inheritance. Low unemployment, zero debt and high growth. They’ve ruined my great legacy. Isn’t that right, Mr Ploppy?

    • 83
      Mr Ploppy says:

      Surething Gordon whatever you say, now flush the toilet I have things to do and places to be.

      • 212
        Gordon Brown says:

        I left the country with record low interest rates, a falling deficit, falling inflation, falling unemployment, economic growth and secure banks. What other Prime Minister has handed over such a golden inheritance to their successor. Tony certainly didn’t. I’ll go down in history as one of the true greats.

  27. 60
    purpleline says:

    Osborne & the government need a good honest person to unspin present and talk in plain terms what the situation is & what happened.

    For a start when Labour politicians use the term Investment that means Spending.

    When Balls said as he did today that the Brown chancer-llorship (sic) paid off debt using 20 billions of mobile phone licences. It is true, but that cost was levied on the user as the phone companies kept prices sky high to pay for it.

    When using this debt repayment they should point out that the sleight of hand used was as follows .

    Make great noise about repaying debt while signing PFI off balance sheet liabilities of £200b. That is overspending on the mobile Tax take by a factor of 10.

    By pointing out that the money that went into the NHS was eaten up in salaries to GP’s, management and Nurses and use of outside services such as PR tv ads etc. And great costs in buying in auxiliary staff.

    And in layman terms show exactly the position we have in the banks the average rate of investment in the banks (bailout) and share price offset by fees received for use of the government schemes. And Osborne should pledge that every tax payer in the country will benefit from the sale of the banks and will be given a free share or shares.

    Balls got away with Murder today from the biased BBC and the leftie idiot Marr

  28. 62
    Gordon Brown was an economic genius says:

  29. 64
    Blinky says:

    I will be pwime minister one day! I will destwoy Ed Miliband!

    • 94
      streamfisher says:

      Better change your speech therapist then Blinky If you’ve still got any ambitions of one day becoming Pwime Minister, and get some help with the body language, try a bit of superglue on the eyelids, its a dead give away.

  30. 65
    Gordon like the Ed' is unable to tell it straight says:

    “I am not receiving any money from this engagement personally. It is being held by the Office of Gordon and Sarah Brown for the employment of staff to support my ongoing involvement in public life.”

    “Office of Gordon and Sarah Brown Ltd; company set up to provide administrative support for Mr and Mrs Brown in their ongoing activities.”

    You may not be directly pocketing the money Gordon but using it to “support Mr and Mrs Brown in their ongoing activities” sounds much the same as pocketing it to me.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/110124/brown_rt-hon-gordon.htm

  31. 67
    Axe The Telly Tax says:

    Latest on Sky News: Balls accuses Osborne of ‘Cuts’ denial.

    Hahahahahahaha.

    The man’s a fookin’ lunatic.

    • 72
      Andrew Marr says:

      He was on my show this morning and I was very impressed by his argument and reasoning.

      • 192
        Grammar School Boy says:

        Perhaps but Andrew Lansley bitch-slapped you!

        Played you at your own game and you lost quicker than that scotch tennis player.

        • 306
          Pickles the dog says:

          I like how you feel the need to reference the tennis players nationality. Is that to distinguish him from English Tennis Players such as…..er……er……Oh never mind at least football is coming home…….what’s that……it isn’t oh dear.

    • 74
      Ed's Balls says:

      Just wait till I teabag RedEd, you wont be calling me a fookin’ lunatic then lad!

  32. 71
    What democracy? says:

    Guido says on Twitter that Bush was right and that democracy is coming to the middle east. Is that why an exiled ISLAMIST leader has returned to Tunisia from his exile in London? I’m sure he’ll bring tons of democracy to the country. One despot replaced by another.

    • 81
      The Babble od Pundits says:

      What do americans know about foreign policy after all they said that about Iran and applauded the overthrow of the Shah as indications of democracy and what does it matter if that old dotty man from France is allowed back into Iran ? He’s harmless…….

      • 119
        Grumpy Old Man says:

        He may be but the sons of islam working his strings are far from harmless – and you know it.

        • 177
          The Babble od Pundits says:

          My point exactly…. it was a mis-calculation by the USA in 1979 and they seem to be making another now in regard to Egypt…another Islamic State with 80 million plus is the last thing we need

      • 215
        Anonymous says:

        Iran is a democracy. I watch Press TV.

    • 148
      Anonymous says:

      1978-9 Iran minus the oil interest, plus the Gaza Strip blockade question. Could be a tense year in the region.

  33. 77
    Father Ted says:

    Guido – I see you are coming round to my way of thinking.

    Gordon Brown is a political genius. His scorched earth policy has and will continue to handicap (the nation) and his political opponents.

    Whatever you may think of the man, he has Cameron by the Balls

  34. 79
    Mystick1 says:

    Balls talking a load of balls. Just a fucking liar. And remember the double claiming expenses with his wife which made him one of the many crooks with snouts in the trough. Piggy Balls would be an apt name.

  35. 87
    genghiz the kahn says:

    If Coulson was supposed to be one of Call Me Dave’s media advisers, he didn’t appear to put the message over that the structural deficit dates back to 2003 particularly well.

    Just for the record how many times did Jug Ears interrupt Balls?

  36. 88
    Bollock Ed says:
    • 92
      Engineer says:

      Ed – we tried your plan.

      It didn’t work.

      • 96
        Balls4Leader says:

        But his propaganda is. Ed Balls is now the public face of the Labour party. I reckon a quick high street poll asking who the leader of labour is (without giving a choice of names) would result in Ed Balls being in pole position.

        I wonder how Red Ed feels that it is Balls that has turned around Labour’s ratings?

    • 93
      Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

      No money left balls you fuckin deficit denying C-unt!

    • 474
      Bled psalms says:

      damp bells

  37. 90
    monty heath says:

    Ed and Ed are onto a winner. The average voter is far more likely to believe them [the liars] than the coalition, which is stuck with the nasty jobs of telling the truth and trying to avert a collapse in the value of sterling. Ed and Ed want to be back in government. Neither has the faintest interest in getting there honestly or responsibly if lying round the clock works better. Brown and Blair were compulsive liars throughout the thirteen years New Labour was fucking everything up. And it was issues like immigration and Brown’s toilet-blocking personality that lost it for them, not the economy, about which most voters know next to nothing.

  38. 97
    Atlas shrugged says:

    The entire worlds economic problems HAVE been caused by the crisis in the banking system, but of course not for the precise reasons Gordon Brown or Ed Balls have claimed, and will I am sure, continue to claim.

    The crisis of the banking system, is that the system is entirely controlled by a very few, who do not care if the world starves to death or worse, as long as their plan for complete world domination is completed sometime over the next 10-20 years.

    This crisis is not at all new, and very much includes the power the owners of the banking system have over national governments especially ours, and socialism in general, very much also including The Conservative and Republican Parties, to require them to borrow ever more money from the establishments central banks

    Blair, Cameron, Osborne, Balls and Brown do not see themselves as evil men, but they know they are liars, that are confronted with a cruelest of realities not of their making.

    Like good tenant farmers they don’t tell the sheep they are going to be slaughtered, they try to make the land owners property’s journey to the slaughter house as pleasant as possible.

    We should ask ourselves whether or not we want the following, because if we do not, then if we do not soon wake up and do something about it we are going to get them sooner rather then much later.

    The abolition of Private Property
    The abolition of all nations
    The abolition of family
    The abolition of patriotism
    The abolition of democracy
    The abolition of Religion (as we know it)
    A One World totalitarian government along the lines of the current Chinese model, only worse, much, much worse IMO.

    There are of course a small minority especially those who describe themselves as right wing socialists, or Fabians like Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, and Ed Balls who genuinely believe this all to be a perfectly fine end that justifies whatever means they used to achieve it.

    The question is DO YOU, and if not, what are YOU going to do about it, because I am getting rather weary from constantly having to repeat myself?

  39. 98
    Moderater (chief) says:

    Oi ! Guido , I want a payrise !

  40. 105
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Spending will still be higher in 4 years than it is now .

  41. 120
    Down With Brown! says:

    We could reduce the deficit by seizing from Gordon all the money he lost the country:

    “He may have been the “invisible man” at Westminster since leaving Downing Street, but Gordon Brown’s globetrotting has helped him quietly earn £250,000 in just three months. Despite his low profile in Britain, speeches on the international lecture circuit, an honorary post at a university in New York and a book deal have recently enabled the former prime minister to generate a small fortune.” – The Sunday Times (£)

  42. 126
    Mrs Faye Merritt says:

    No, I still think Ed Balls is right.

    • 128
      Cameron and Osborne are deficit deniers says:

      Since they pledged to match Labour spending.

      • 134
        so what? says:

        They only told this particular porky to get re-elcted, nothing wrong in that.

        • 137
          no majority for Dave so it didn't work says:

          so they lied about the deficit or they just didn’t care about it
          which completely contradicts all this deficit denying twattery
          either way they are cretins who can’t be trusted on the subject

  43. 146
    Warren Buffet says:

    The basic premise of the labour party economic policy is that the public doesn’t have to suffer cuts just because the money is tight. What we can do is simply get another credit card and carry on spending with that. When that one runs out, well we’ll pay it off then as the economy will be okay as it will have been financed by all the borrowing.

    Now you don’t need to be a genious to see that it’s complete and utter madness. Any unbiased scrutiny by national television media should expose this – but as we don’t have any such media it won’t happen. Those people saying the Government should start by castrating the BBC have a lot of weight in that argument.

    • 154
      Engineer says:

      The other thing they keep forgetting is that sooner or later, there will be another recession. We can’t predict when, or what will trigger it, but as sure as the sun comes up there will be one sometime. The longer we delay putting our finances in order, the higher the probability of being caught out when it happens.

      So the sensible course is to take early action to balance the books, and preferably reduce debts. Then, when the next crisis hits, we’re better placed to ride out the storm.

      • 219
        Gordon Brown says:

        There will be no more recessions. I abolished boom n bust in 1997 and there never has been and never will be another recession in the UK unless the Tories pass an act of parliament to repeal the ‘No More Boom N Bust Act 1997′.

        • 298
          Beyond The Crash Gordon says:

          Yes that was a very productive time for Government Legislation as around that time we also passed the Hard Working Families Act, The Make poverty History Act, The not passing by on the other side act, The Many and not the Few Act and The. Meaningless Platitude act. Good times.

    • 194
      Ratsniffer says:

      Labour’s economic policy is one huge ponzi scheme. besides, I wouldn’t be lectured on economic policy by a party which sold gold at the bottom of the market. This calamatous piece of boneheadedness has apparently become known to gold dealers as “Brown’s Bottom”

  44. 147
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    I blame the French!

  45. 153
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    So Labour says everything good they done was down to them , Everything that went bad was someone elses fault ?

  46. 157
    Gordon Brown says:

    First !

  47. 158
    Gordon Brown says:

    Good luck to Manchester City in thier FA cup tie.

  48. 162
    Anonymous says:

    (Surprisingly) Rich n Mark summarised Balls perfectly…

    http://order-order.com/2009/06/01/rich-marks-monday-morning-view-10-2/

  49. 163
    Martin Day says:

    Lest we forget

    A brief round up of the current polling situation

    ICM LAB +4

    MORI LAB +10

    Com Res LAB +2

    You Gov LAB +4

    Angus Reid LAB +11

    • 171
      REALITY CHECK says:

      When’s the next General Election ? Oh yes, 2015.

    • 186
      Joss Ayinglike says:

      After the Conservative General Election victory in May 1979, Liebour had a lead in the opinion polls for TWO AND A HALF YEARS

      http://bit.ly/fGlmz4

      • 191

        Probably even longer.
        It was impossible to find a Tory before 1982..And again after 1985.
        They were only found in the privacy of voting booths. Remember the disastrous BBC election night poll of 1992. A hung parliament or a significant Labour victory!

        • 198
          Grammar School Boy says:

          Well aaaawwwwwwwrrrrrriiiiigggggggggggggghhhhhhhtttttttttttt!!!

          • That’s the one. I forget his name ..fell over on a beach and said his wife tripped him up.

          • Joss Taskin says:

            Is this the bloke ? ‘In 1977 Neil Kinnock, the ex-Labour leader, called the Lords “the descendants of brigands, muggers, bribers and gangsters”. In 2004 he accepted a life peerage’ ????

          • Kinnock the Turncoat says:

            Was that the chap from Wales who was totally against the European Union and the House of Lords until he realised that he and his family would become extremely rich if he embraced both ?

          • That’s the chap..He sits next to tubby Prescott who said “he hates titles, flunkery and ‘flooding’ the House of Lords with appointees.”

          • Grammar School Boy says:

            Nothing’s too good for the workers!

      • 418
        REALITY CHECK says:

        So when’s Cameron’s Falklands War ?
        Or do you think Afghanistan will save him ?

    • 476
      Ben Elton says:

      31% of the population have gone over to the LAbour party showing their disaffection with the un-democratic Mrs. Thatch and her Thatcherite policies. I demand an election now so that the British people can put an end to her causing the british people, especially the salt of the earth working class types like me, to suffer!

  50. 164
    Lomax says:

    I think the beboids still think liebore are the government. When they were in power, ministers were on last on wingnut’s show for the ‘big’ interview. Even now liebore are not the government, they still come on last, with government ministers in the earlier ‘junior’ slot. I have now resolved not to watch marr anymore as he is a Hunt.

  51. 168
    Eva Braun's Muff. says:

    What’s old and smells of Adolf?

  52. 175
    Gordon Brown says:

    Andy Murray is my son.

  53. 178
    Oh No, Not Again says:

    Watching the typical response of dictators toward their population in Egypt. I see the USA and UK are staying quiet about this unfolding abuse – low flying jets being used on people for fun – why aren’t we putting a dodgy dossier together and why isn’t Obama after the evil dictator’s head? Oh I know, because the USA and UK are both implicated in propping the regime up ….

    what exactly is the point of life on this earth under these conditions???

    • 205
      • 247
        smoggie says:

        He doesn’t know.

        The point here is that the Egyptians are doing what we did centuries ago. Demanding democracy for themselves.

        It must be wanted and earned, not imposed from outside like some McDonalds francise.

        That is why it might just work in Egypt but not in Iraq.

    • 211
      The Babble of Pundits says:

      .They’re powerless in the present situation….What exactly can they do….if they interfere and back the wrong faction they risk giving ammunition to the Muslim Brotherhood…and create their worse nightmare..a poweful and strategically placed Islamic State of 80 million people…….what would happen then if that occurred and the new state closed the Suez Canal a strategic route from the Far East to Western Europe and America ? all they can do is pressurize Mubarak behind the scenes to stand down whilst he can still hand over power in an orderly fashion before the Army makes the decision for him and hope that their preferred candidate El-Baradei can emerge as leader of the opposition faction to form a transitional government of national unity…..Egypt is riven by factions…the army is also split and a large group is unwilling to move against the protesters whereas the Air Force supports their old chief Mubarak hence the fly past by the two F-15s….which unless they want to bomb the centre of Cairo is noisy but ineffective………merely a show which had the opposite effect on the crowds merely enraging them instead of cowering them…….until the US and UK can see who will emerge it’s unlikely they’ll make any statement other than general desires for orderly and democratic transition….there is no black and white areas in politics or international relations merely “realpolitik”..Mubarak has been useful to the West for 30 years in containing Islamic forces just as Saddam was in the 70′s/80′s in countering Iran…the rights of his people are largely ignored as is usually the case whilst he is useful but when the moment is right he will be discarded without a moments thought or regret……………

      • 264

        Thank you Babble.
        That’s much clearer.

        Abdeen Palace incident 1942.

        In 1942 the British Government forced a new Egyptian government by surrounding the palace with armoured cars and demanding a change.
        At the time, although fighting in Egypt, Egypt was a neutral. And the British were ‘guests’. King Farouk of Egypt was handed an abdication document and told change the government to one we like, or resign, or get shot.

        After the incident King Farouk, who was widely, and justifiably, unpopular, became a hero for the humiliation he suffered. The party the British put into power was despised, and lost all the popular support it had had before the British meddled.

        So..as you say..stay well out of it.

      • 304
        6EQUJ5 says:

        They were not F15′s…………but F16′s.

  54. 179
    Gordon Brown says:

    Its started in America.

  55. 180
    Joss Taskin says:

    When asked by Marr why Mervyn King supported George Osborne’s strategy to tackle the deficit, Bullyboy Balls replied, ‘Out of loyalty’.

    FFS, I thought the Bank of England’s MPC was supposed to be independent ??

  56. 198
    Ed Balls says:

    Rumour: Ed Miliband to resign as Labour leader.

  57. 209
    J.K Galbraith says:

    The trouble is, they almost got away with their political engineering. If you expand the public sector way beyond sustainablity and allow ‘open door’ immigration, you create a large rump of self interested voters who will vote for the status quo – Labour. This is the reason that their was no Tory majority despite Labour’s disastrous management of the economy. Voters were not voting for a well managed economy, they were voting to preserve their own status within it.

    • 222
      marshmyst says:

      We need a national debt clock ticking up how much we as a country and as families owe and it needs to be behind Georgie boy and all his pals every time the BBC or any other media outlet film them maybe actualy seeing the numbers rise will actually wake some of these idiots up.

  58. 218
    13eastie says:

    The coalition has done a terrible job of explaining to the public what is going on re. the necessity for cuts.

    Labour has been allowed to popularise the ludicrous suggestion that government economic policy (tax increases, plus spending increases, plus staying in massive fiscal deficit) is in some way “ideological”.

    The message that Labour failed to balance the books for almost a decade is not heard.

    The scale of the debt is not depicted in terms ordinary voters understand: e.g. by 2016 the Government will be spending almost the same on the interest on Labour’s debt as it spends on the NHS.

    Objectively, Coulson has been a disaster.

    And nothing has neutralised the BBC’s abject deficiency of objectivity.

    • 220
    • 230
      Eva Braun's Muff. says:

      Spot on.

    • 251
      The BBC has to look at itself says:

      Agree. Have to say though that I think most dis-information comes from the BBC.

      I actually heard a BBC News anchor man sat in the BBC studio screaming down the line to a government minister (Vince Cable) who was giving a somewhat reasonable explanation. WHERE IS THE PLAN B? HAVE YOU GOT A PLAN B? YU MUST HAVE A PLAN B!!!”!!

      To give Vince credit he did not, threaten to kill the BBC fucker who was taking the Labour line word for word.

      • 257
        HandsomeDavid says:

        Thats the way, interview labour and interrogate with hostility all other parties.

        Fuck the BBC.

      • 291
        BBC shill says:

        Haas that a Tory led Government minister.

        • 297
          Grammar School Boy says:

          When querying the name of an obscure European band, on Friday morning, Eva Davis commented on the information coming “from a friend of mine at the Guardian.”

          Shocked, really, nah.

    • 346
      Cynical-old-bag says:

      It might have had a bit more clout if George had told us exactly how much debt they inherited from the Labour government.

      People may be more willing to cut their coats accordingly if they knew the full extent of the problem…..

      • 402
        Erich von Manstein says:

        I doubt that Balls, Cameron, Clegg et al care which party wins the next election. Our political masters win, no matter what the result; we lose.

  59. 221
    Marian says:

    The Tories are trailing Labour on the polls because the Milliband and Balls deficit denial is resonating with the voters who would rather hear what they are saying than face reality.

    The Tories should be worried but appear complacent by letting Milliband and Balls appear to be unchallenged.

    David Cameron needs to get his PR act together quicktime for Labour are clearly hoping that they can pushover Clegg and join with other LibDems as an alternative government by casting doubts on whether the austerity measures are required or not.

  60. 229
    cheche says:

    Listening to Mohamed Al Baredi’s anti-american speech can we actually trust that there were no nuclear weapon s in Iraq?

    • 266

      Er… yes.

      Baradei was certainly no fan of Hussein – and hopefully will come out ahead when Mubarak goes. He’s positioning himself for possible elections, no more, no less. Wouldn’t you object to being lectured by Hillary Rugmuncher Clinton?

      Back on topic, if the Labour Party want credibility, why choose Balls as shadow Chancellor? He may no have been the architect of the destruction of public finances (James Gordon Mong takes that honour), but he was certainly chief draftsman.

      • 273
        Winston Churchill Said Fascism Would Return As Anti-Fascism. says:

        Why does the thick west pay aid money to these scum?

        The thick Americans will go batshit once they realise how hoodwinked they have been for generations, bankrupting themselves giving aid to a world that hates them and that they have no friends in the outside world once they become a zero power.

        • 353
          Anonymous says:

          It’s 21st century Danegeld – except that no-one will remember their largesse once it dries up, merely their recent military conquests.

        • 375
          cheche says:

          They might inded begin to worry about electing a President who hates them

        • 399

          Which scum? Arab scum (who used to just try to gyp you), or Israeli scum (who used to kill our troops, in case you forgot)?

          Israelis may not be critical of America, but despite being the recipients of untold largesse over the years, they are contemptuous – I seem to remember that mass murderer and racist Ariel Sharon saying “Don’t worry about American pressure, we control America.”.

          Fuck you and the horse you rode in on, Yid scum.

  61. 235
    Anonymous says:

    What we need is numbers to debunk Balls along the follwing lines:

    Ed Balls the Structural defict is £xBn
    The Bankers cost us £yBn
    £xBn minus £yBn = Labours overspend.

    Anyone know the numbers? to put his together?

    • 288
      Robert Peston says:

      I’ll ask Alan Johnson and get back to you.

    • 354
      Anonymous says:

      Zero
      Everything
      Blair & Brown’s long term legacy

    • 417
      Cui bono says:

      The National Statistics website is a good place to start. The worsening Balance of Payments deficits and the awful net savings figures show when things started to go downhill fast. As regards the cost of the banking fiasco and where the blame lies, it is still rather soon to draw conclusions. The deal was supposed to be that the regulators made sure that banks’ assets could support their liabilities given normal conditions and that a lender of last resort stood ready to deal with liquidity issues. The regulatory system was changed (Brown, but pace Michael Heseltine it could have been all Balls). Subsequently, and perhaps consequently, neither regulation nor provision of liquidity seem to have worked smoothly. If Government makes large profits when banking shares taken up during the crisis are sold, my view would be that this would be evidence that the then Government exploited a largely liquidity problem to rob private shareholders. If, though, the Government makes a loss, then the odds are that the problems related more to solvency issues. It is easier to disentangle things later. I remember saying when Alistair Darling was making his pronouncements about solvency that as of then he could not possibly have known. He may have just have been trying to engender confidence of course. A better way to engender confidence in my view would be to have someone who knew something about finance as Chancellor. An historian like Lamont or G. Brown (if twentieth century Marxist issues in Glasgow count as history) or a lawyer like Darling may not prima facie suggest a rigorous financilal background but then how much do we know about Gideon’s grounding in matters financial?

      • 454

        If Government makes large profits when banking shares taken up during the crisis are sold, my view would be that this would be evidence that the then Government exploited a largely liquidity problem to rob private shareholders.

        Seems harsh. Its had to cut interest to below inflation to keep the banks alive. The plan was to not make things any worse, never mind making a profit. if we break even we’ll be very lucky.

        • 488
          Anonymous says:

          Barclay’s thought the terms so harsh that they turned to foreign (mainly quasi government) investors, who offered better terms than the UK government and seem to have done rather well out of it. Others rode the storm out or, rather than allow the UK Goverment to take shares, looked exclusively to their own shareholding base. As a separate though related point, if governments take the view that banks should tap shareholders to build up their capital to an extent where a bank’s capital base will cover all eventualities (whatever the extent of Government regulatory, fiscal and monetary failures), then private shareholders will either prove unequal to the task or will extract a heavy price, with serious consequences for the underlying econpmy. I think that private investors will find little comfort from the views of people like Ed Balls who incredibly seems to think that we need more of the same regulatory, fiscal and monetary policies that IMHO caused all the problems in the first place.,

        • 492
          Anonymous says:

          My reply didn’t get through. I’ll try again. My substantive point was that even at the time Barclays thought the terms too harsh and got a better deal from foreign quasi-government outfits, who seem to have done rather well, while and others like HSBC looked to their own shareholders, wh do not seem to have done too badly, either. We’ll see.

  62. 242
    Un-Wed ED says:
    • 245
      Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

      The problem with socailisim is that you always run out of other peoples money!

      • 252
        Anonymous says:

        Why is New Zealand lamb halal?

      • 395
        Cui bono says:

        Ed Balls may be right in thinking that he can still find lenders out there (after all, even real basket cases often find a loan sharks who will lend to them — if only at crippling rates of interest). The question really is whether enlightened self interest , e.g. avoiding the consequences of a classic debt trap, should not make us try to avoid falling even further and faster into the clutches of the moneylenders than current Coalition policies envisage. Ed Balls at least seems to be accepting that he has taxed just about as much as possible, i.e. acknowledging the obvious. that taxation simply cannot balance the books, because it would have to go up by about one third to close the gap that opened up during his watch, or lack of it. Who does he think his borrowing mania would benefit? Traditionally, the poor have not been major lenders, and with the damage done to pension schemes etc. are even less well placed to benefit now — even indirectly — than when he took office.

    • 246
      1984 revisited says:

      So there we have it. Ed Miliband has finally come clean. The STATE knows best.

      New Labour believed in a FREE Market.

      Red Ed’s “new generation” Labour believe in a STATE controlled market.

      • 424
        Susie says:

        They didn’t care about the hundreds of hectares they’ve felled in Wales and Scotland to make way for wind turbines, nor did they care about felling a quarter of Hatfield Forest and several woods to make way for a second runway at Stansted.

    • 254
      genghiz the kahn says:

      Red Ed is as thick as a plank if he thinks that the Forestry Commission was managing ancient woodland. It dates back to 1919, when his Granddad was fighting for the Soviet Union against the new Polish Republic.

      • 256
        Come on Dave KICK ARSE says:

        Quite. The forestry commission manage commercial woodlands. Yet more disinformation from the Labour propaganda machine. Unfortunately they are getting away with it. Why doesn’t the state broadcaster say something?

      • 453
        FreeTrader says:

        All the heritage forests are not included in the sell-off, such as the New Forest.

        And Epping Forest is owned by the City of London, I think.

        More misinformation from Ed.

        • 460
          FreeTrader says:

          Slight correction to my comment.

          Epping Forest is managed by the City of London Corporation, according to Wikipedia. I’m not sure who owns it. Still, it sets a precedent that forests can be managed by local bodies.

    • 263
      nell says:

      The government has stated very clearly that NO heritage woodland is being disposed of.

      What is being leased out to private companies are plantations of conifers ( dark, ugly unnatural things that they are.) that have to be farmed and managed, and even here all current public rights of way will be protected.

      It seems militwit and ed’ madasahatter brown ‘balls are reduced to telling lies to fill that blank sheet of paper because they haven’t got any credible policies to write on it.

      • 272
        The State knows best says:

        Not quite true Nell. The government want to hand ancient/heritage woodlands over to charitable trusts who know how to manage their local woods.

        Me I am easy with that but obviously the Red Eds are not as they think their state machinery knows better than every one else.

        • 276
          Winston Churchill Said Fascism Would Return As Anti-Fascism. says:

          The government wants to regulate who can go into woodlands full stop. They will charge dog walkers, ramblers etc. etc. anyone they can bleed money out of to use the woods.

          Trust me if the government especially labour ones got control, there would be gypo camps popping up in your local woods never to be kicked out and you would no longer be able to afford to visit the woods in the first place.

        • 369
          nell says:

          Well don’t they just!

          After all Dr David Kedlly died in one didn’t he?!!

          • call me Dave is the Heir to Blair says:

            and where’s the inquiry nell ?

            looks like you were full of shit dear

      • 432
        Susie says:

        Not so sure about this… woodland’s the ideal place for on-shore wind, no residents actions committees. They get £10k per turbine a year just for the rental.

      • 434
        Susie says:

        Not so sure about this… woodland’s the ideal place for on-shore wind, no resident action committees to stand in their way. They get £10k per turbine a year just for the rental.

  63. 250
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    ” Unwed Brain dead red Ed “

  64. 259
    Bill Sikes' Dog says:

    Gerr’Balls [a famous Nazi] says , tell a lie often enough and people will begin to believe it’s true .

  65. 262
    Geoff Hoon ate my Hamster says:

    Geoff Hoon ate my Hamster ! Its true!

  66. 270
    Gordon Brown says:

    Tonight i will be a pair of socks.

  67. 271
    Winston Churchill Said Fascism Would Return As Anti-Fascism. says:

    Only the sad acts and thick desperate Con supporters wanted to win this election, everyone on this forum agreed that this election wasn’t the one anyone would want to win and they should of left it for Labour.

    But those poll numbers came in and you all thought you could ride it out, then the day came and you thought you could take the Lib Dems down with you at least if it all goes tits up.

    Put it like this you have no one to blame but yourselves, if Labour won the country would be like Egypt right now and the Cons would of got a solid majority.

    But the greed blinded you and now your paying for it in the long run with Left Wing riots and the BBC convicing the thick public to go back to Labour.

    • 283
      They don't want to break their iPhones says:

      “Left Wing riots”

      Oh come on! Some students somewhere called the leader of the NUS a “Tory J*ew” and the police had to help him out.

      That’s not a riot, it’s just a bunch of uneducated ra*cist xenophobic teenagers whining about inequality (oh, the irony).

      Real rioting is when the morgues can’t cope with all the bodies.

      • 310
        Winston Churchill Said Fascism Would Return As Anti-Fascism. says:

        Well the left wing has always hated the j….w……….s yet the j………w…….s keep sucking up to them all the way until they are screaming in ovens and being gassed to death by the left.

        Can’t say I feel sorry for them when they’ve been having the same deathwish through the centuries.

  68. 274
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Guido , How about awards for us windowlickers , Funniest windowlicker, Most boring window licker , Most abusive window licker , Most thoughtful window licker etc ?

  69. 275
    nell says:

    Ed ‘gordonbrownclone’balls has the charisma, like his old mentor, of cow dung.

    Most electors may not be very financially literate but the majority are able to smell a rat when it comes to liars like brown, balls and militwit.

    • 311
      Universal Hiss says:

      Not true.

      Just look at most of the comments on the Guardian CIF pages. The last 13 years were wonderful. The amount of posts that have Thatcher the evil in them is quite astonishing. Thousands of complete fuckwits.

      • 359
        Anonymous says:

        They learned their political intuition from Ben Elton on Friday Night Live. Thankfully he’s gone but unfortunately their mindset hasn’t.

      • 371
        nell says:

        Unfortunately for labour less than 40% of the electorate takes that view.

        With ed’madasahatterbrown’balls and militwit in charge of labour, when they get to election, even less than 40% will have any faith in them!!

  70. 282
    Simple analogy for the masses says:

    The Banking crisis is analogous to the tale of the three pigs. As any child will tell you , the wolf is not blamed for what happened rather the foolish pigs who built their houses out of straw etc is the moral of the tale.

    Likewise no one should doubt the very real crisis caused by the idiotic banking system but it’s the governments who built their economies out of straw who are really the villains.

    Moral :shit happens, sensible and responsible management of the economy should be prepared for this.

    Brown wasn’t as he is a complete clown.

    • 287
      Gordon Brown says:

      Why should I have prepared for “shit” happening when my advisor Ed Balls and I had ended the cycle of Boom & Bust?

      Indeed, Cameron agreed with my spending plans.

      • 374
        nell says:

        gordon , prompted by ed ‘gordon’ balls says :

        look at Me…!!

        “I saved the world” !!!!!

  71. 294
    I WISH says:

    I wish that the BBC would go back to being neutral.

  72. 295
    13eastie says:

    The main logic in Labour’s approach is that the government is that it expects to be able to get away with it because the government’s PR machine has dropped the ball completely.

    Where are the fucking simple messages that voters understand?

    Just give voters a straightforward concrete choice in every instance of Labour’s opposition to cuts.

    E.g. a starter question for £500m pa:

    EMA OR 3,000 hospital consultants?

    Likewise, the need for deficit and subsequent debt reduction:

    Continue paying £120m/day in interest OR reduce the debt and be able to spend the money on an extra 200,000 police?

    Labour’s waste:

    The overspend alone on the Scottish parliament building would have paid for one of Gordon Brown’s white-elephant, mothballed aircraft carriers

    And the PFI schools and hospitals will cost us four times the going rate for 30 years

    What is so fucking difficult about presenting these arguments? Why the fuck is Sayeeda bleeting on about Іѕlаm and insulting her party’s core support when the government is failing even to present (let alone win) the economic argument against a proven fiscal spastic like Balls?

    • 296
      13eastie says:

      Apologies, first para should read:

      The main logic in Labour’s approach is that it expects to be able to get away with it because the government’s PR machine has dropped the ball completely.

      • 316
        Universal Hiss says:

        For some reason the tories & the poodles don’t do down & dirty in public.

        Perhaps they should start.

    • 345
      marcus Aurelius says:

      I couldn’t agree more

      anyone who can’t kicjk the shot out of an utter tosser like Balls is just not trying

      but then as Wikileaks proved Cameron is not a Conservative.

      His job is to fuck everything up and deliver us in chains to our NWO masters via the EU controlling aparatus

      • 373
        Blogger says:

        the government really are crap at attacking the opposition and defending their decisions…the beeb love it!

        “let us say there is a left of centre bias in our organ” A Marr 1997

    • 365
      Anonymous says:

      The overspend is geared towards potential Lab voters – EMA is attractive to upcoming voters (& parents) whereas morbidity (and Consultants) are needed more by older patients.

      It’s going to be very difficult to reduce public spending when so much of it is used to support the status quo, namely the situation that NuLab engineered, where the state provides/funds higher education, health etc.

      Shrinking the state is the only way forward – but it will be resisted by practically everyone who receives a handout from the government, even if they subsidise it themselves from taxes etc.

  73. 303
    bofl says:

    the so called tories are people that have spent most of their lives in a sheltered environment. spending all day in meetings with others on the same uni/govt. job/mp treadmill doesn’t really give them an insight into the wider world….

    labour play the ‘toff’ card all the time and it is easy for them as 90% of the country are morons and jealousy is a stong emotion.(it doesn’t matter that Labour are all spolit bastards too).

    cameron is useless as are the limp dems….
    if things get worse guess who will be back in when the coalition folds?
    yep-red ed……..my goldfish has more brains!

  74. 305
    Ratsniffer says:

    I have been banging on for ages about how labour (and balls) is trying to re-write history. So, aided and abetted by all the usual suspects (bbc, grauniad etc) it was, we are now being told, the bankers’ fault.

    There must be no mention of selling off gold at rock bottom prices, no mention of the massive spending spree, the massive borrowing, the huge bloatation of the public sector, the billions spent keeping people on benefits while simultaneously importing potential new labour voters from abroad to do their jobs, the trashing of our pensions, the social engineering projects, the PFI billions, the massive overspend on government projects, the hastilly drawn up GP contracts which cost millions more and saw doctors paid more for doing less, no, none of this must be mentioned.

    Repeat: it was all the fault of the bankers.

    • 339
      Cynical-old-bag says:

      It’s the thick people on benefits who voted this shower in, in the first place. Take those, and add the millions of immigrants, disability claimants etc.,etc., This is the core Labour vote. They think that voting Labour will keep their benefits rolling in.

      • 358
        The Devil's Handcart says:

        They could be right.

        The Cameroons have done precious little to reduce the benefits class, they’ve just hacked away at the tory support base by inserting a bloody great discontinuity in the tax regime that knocks an aspiring working class down a snake as soon as it gets up a ladder.

        Once they get a foot on the ladder to success and responsibity they find they’re facing a marginal tax rate of 52% and their family tax credits are kicked away.

        What’s the point of trying, But then if you were Cameroon and his mates you never had to try too hard, it was all laid out for you.

        They really are doing a shit job. How can we get David Davis back

  75. 313
    AnotherAnon. says:

    This one is still crazy,stark raving mad.

  76. 334
    Jonah Brown says:

    I’ll be back.

    Sorry, I meant to say I’ll be crap.

  77. 342
    Eunuchonomics says:

    Balls is lying to us all. He denies there is a deficit despite ‘signing’ up to the Milidarling school of economics which would have introduced severe cuts from April onwards. Balls has only been in the jobs two minutes and he is already undermining Miliband’s leadership and the Milidarling’s economic stance. This suggest that if Miliband does not rein Balls in then either Miliband will change to Balls ideas which shows weakness & dithering in leadership or Balls will try to split the party. If he does split the party then he has the support of unions and the students who for reasons based on self preservation wish to deny there is a deficit problem too.
    With enough support within his own party and from the deficit deniers outwith Balls can oust Ed. Ed is too weak for Bully Balls and Balls knows it. The Coalition just need to do nothing. The knife is being sharpened by both the Brownites and Bliarites as we speak but only Balls has the appetite to stick it in.

    • 393
      Universal Hiss says:

      I’m sure you’re right.

      I think I’ve lost the will to live. I really try to engage in politics from all sides & come to the conclusion that 90% I read & hear from politicians & the media is all fucking self-serving rubbish.

      I could sleep for 3 years to awake to exactly the same.

      What to do?

    • 449
      Anonymous says:

      “undermining Miliband’s leadership”

      Good one. :)

  78. 344
    Mike Hunt says:

    At last we know what is on the blank sheet of paper:

    DENY EVERYTHING

    FAILING THAT, LIE.

    Repeat continuously until May 2015.

    Copy to all media outlets with instructions not to deviate from this simple mantra.

  79. 349
    marcus Aurelius says:

    what the fuck is wrong with the Tories? Labour left a pile of fiuscal poo just as they have done every single time they’ve been elected

    • 363
      The Devil's Handcart says:

      Unfortunately the Tories have been infiltrated by fellow travellers from Public Schools who having no talent to achieve anything in life through their own efforts have decided to become politicians for the north island departiment of the EUSSR. This gives them something to do while their families look after areas like Parts of Kesteven, EUSSR sub departiment Z3.

    • 391
      Mike Hunt says:

      See reply to 238

  80. 356
    Labour says:

    Kinnochio: I’ve got my party back.

    Gordon: I’ve got my potty back.

  81. 357
    HenryV says:

    So does Yvette Cooper understand the off side rule or not?

    • 372
      Gonk says:

      How dare, how dare you imply that Yvette Cooper
      Is manipulative, stupid, selfish and chock full
      of class hatred.

  82. 362
    cheche says:

    The BBC has even managed to politicise Country file- do they expect us n0t to notice.

    Hopefully their biased spouting will be ignored like theor efforts on Global warming

    • 381
      nell says:

      Who watches the beeb now? Nobody with any intelligence.

      They produce such utter left wing biased rubbish.

      Time to sell the beeb off, in sections, for large sums of money, that will benefit the taxpayer, and save us our license fee !!

      • 385
        sheep says:

        “Nobody with any intelligence”…very true. But intelligence amongst people in this country has become something of rarity. Most of the floating vote just want to be fed someone else’s opinions, via TV and radio news, because getting themselves properly informed and forming their own opinions, is too damn difficult for the idiots!

      • 409
        Nobody with any intelligence. says:

        Mr Cameron stressed that he supported the BBC

        He said: “The BBC is an important national institution. I want to see it prosper and succeed and be a fantastic cultural asset.”

        He added that he was a “supporter of the licence fee”

        “I’m probably the most pro-BBC Conservative leader there’s ever been!”

        “I would never do anything to put the BBC at risk”.

  83. 366
    Alan Douglas says:

    Balls is not what he is, but the female equivalent (position in the body-wise).

    Mandlebum had a great word for it :

    Balls is a chump.

    Alan Douglas

  84. 377
    Down With Brown! says:

    Chaytor is fast-tracked to open prison. Someone in power is still looking after the thieving bastard:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351805/Expenses-cheat-MP-David-Chaytor-fast-tracked-open-prison-just-weeks-sentence.html

    • 382
      So wet he's got waterlillies sprouting from his arse says:

      But but but you see no one should be in prison anyway it doesn’t do any good and it costs the earth. Let them all out I say, and make them weed old ladies gardens. Much more cost efficient. Now, I’m off to the jazz club.

  85. 378
    geekparent says:

    Or, put more briefly, if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth

  86. 384
    nell says:

    ‘Night darlings. Sweet Dreams!!

  87. 386
    Up sh1t creek says:

    Labour think it’s all funny.

  88. 387
    Eunuchonomics says:

    The Logic of Balls deficit denial is self preservation and more power for Balls. He knows no one has the stomach for cuts and Balls hopes to gain support from this. Balls is playing a dangerous game and he will be exposed to be the villain who bled the country dry.

  89. 389
    LabourNutter says:

    Whenever I imagine Ed Balls back in power I’m reminded of the following quote from 1984:
    “There will be no curiosity, no enjoyment of the process of life. All competing pleasures will be destroyed. But always— do not forget this, Winston— always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face— forever.”

  90. 413
    the Heir to Blair is tough on banks and tough on the causes of banks says:

  91. 414
    Balls Twister says:

    During the leadership bid, Balls made various attempts to distance himself from Brown. Balls was considered to be one of Brown’s most loyal henchmen. Watch your back Ed M. Balls wants and needs power at any cost.

  92. 420
    Mad, Bad & Dangerous Gordon McRuin says:

    According to the Sunday Times, my book has sold 11,000 copies.

    I have given away 10,000 so who are these 1,000 bigot-watchers who paid for a copy ???

  93. 427
    manicbeancounter says:

    A valuable point well made.
    Might I wade in with a humourless comment on deficits?
    Gordon Brown justified deficit expenditure as “investment”. To the extent that the spending spree was investment – it was social investment, not business investment. He was not going to charge customers for all the extra schools, hospitals, jobs and pay rises that the “investment” consisted of. Social investment generates social returns (services), but financial liabilities. Business investment is made with the expectation of financial returns.

    We need to understand that structural deficits at the start of a recession will carry all the way through the next economic cycle. The recession will add to the deficit, and the strong recovery will reduce it, (along with restraining expenditure). However, even on the Chancellor’s optimistic plans we will still have a bigger deficit in 5 years that in 2007 at the top of the cycle. The structural deficit will have not gone away. On this basis I have estimated the structural deficits that we entered the recession with will account for at least £600bn of the £1400bn national debt.

    http://manicbeancounter.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/the-impact-of-labour-on-the-current-crisis/

    Brown’s Golden Rule has destroyed the Nation’s finances for a generation.
    http://manicbeancounter.wordpress.com/2010/03/24/the-golden-rule-has-lead-to-economic-ruin/

  94. 429
    The sins of the father says:

    Balls is lying and lacks integrity. How can such person be trusted to run the economy?. He lacks moral fibre and courage to admit to past failures. Never trust a man who does not admit his mistakes for he has not done the soul searching it takes to admit, accept and address errors of judgement. Until an alcoholic admits he is a drunk he cannot progress and cure his problems. Balls must admit his past failings until then he is and always will be the source of economic failure and not its cure.

  95. 443
    You don't get to win an election based on the previous election result says:

    The problem for Cameron is that the public senses innately that the banks were responsible for wrecking the economy and Brown was in charge of the Banks.

    That’s why Brown lost.
    That was the British public taking revenge for a fucked economy.

    Osborne can’t keep fighting the last election over the next five years. The public will not forgive him if the economy is still fucked and they are suffering. Elections are all about what have you done for me lately, not Brown being shit five years ago. The public knows Brown was shit and kicked him out. That was the price he paid and the price any government pays if the public doesn’t think you are up to the job. It started applying to Osborne when he became Chancellor.

    The deficit blame game is an irrelevance since Osborne agreed with Labour’s spending plans.

  96. 444
    Labour Party Debt Deniers says:

    Who would trust a party who is £10m+ in debt? Will they declare themselves bankrupt or wait and hope the Coalition bails them out? How can a party which is up to eyes in debt have the Balls to say they know what is good for our economy? Clearly they need to get their own mess sorted out first before they can get to grips with tackling the country’s deficit. Why is Labour’s debt never mentioned at PMQs?

  97. 446
    robbie says:

    So the logic of deficit denial is that, the bail-out will be recovered by the on sale of the banks once restored to health. On that basis no Party would have been advocating “cuts” in their manifestos- but they all were and at least one Ed was advocating they were necessary since. Osborne shouldn’t toss away a clear logical advantage.

    • 485
      Cameron and Osborne are deficit deniers says:

      Osborne can’t say shit because he agreed to match Labour spending so obviously didn’t care about the deficit.

  98. 451
    Broke says:

    hey, it’s good to know that all these millionaire politicians are keeping us safe at night. They’re really struggling with all the million pound bank and executive bonuses, the funding of the shortfall in the bbc pension pot and expensive football transfers. My disabled friend got notice of a rise in her benefits to happen in April – £1.08 per week. Now that’s what I call refressing the balnace afetr all the rich shouldn’t go without. State Endorsed Poverty is what it’s called

  99. 455
    BROWN COOKS THE BOOKS I SAID IT ALL ALONG says:

    WATCH THE CHANNEL 4 DESPATCHES “BROWNS MISSING BILLIONS” FROM 2004 ON YOUTUBE IT IS WITHOUT DOUBT THE BEST HOUR OF TV YOU WILL EVER SEE SAYS IT ALL WATCH BLINKY BALLS BULLSHIT

  100. 457
    Carey in a wheelchair says:

    Balls was one of the big players whose strategies crippled the economy. His arguments are lame and he lacks the spine to stand up and speak the truth. He can talk the talk but he can’t walk the walk. Infact, the guy is so fucking dim I doubt he can talk and walk at the same time. It is the Coalition who must stand up to Labour and guide us through this difficult time. Poor sods.

  101. 458
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Billy Bowden is the greatest upmire ever !

    Reckons gonna win caption comp !

  102. 459
    Fed up of these fat bearded camel jockeys says:

    Just nuke the fucking middle east. The raghead region is at the root of most of the world’s problems.

  103. 461
    Gordon Brown says:

    I wish the people of Egypt the best.

  104. 466
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Did Macshane admit his own guilt ?

  105. 475
    Mitch says:

    “Ed Balls is a prize wanker and cannot tell the truth .” truth

  106. 479
    Anonymous says:

    If you think the ordinary voter will ever understand/learn the true economic situation without having it pointed out to them in very simple terms over-and-over again, you’re very much mistaken.
    99.9% of people simply don’t understand the reality of the situation; they just believe the labour/BBC line that gets spun at them.

    Even councils and most MPs simply don’t understand the economic reality, the media most definitely don’t understand it, let alone the ordinary voter.

    They’ve been spun a lie from labour for years, the BBC spun the lie as if it was truth, and now the lie is seen as fact.

    The lie being that labour’s spending plans had never increased at an unsustainable level in the past, and that the tories’ spending plans are cutting overall government spending by a massive amount. Neither of these things are true, because….

    1. Labour were increasing spending at a rate that constantly outstripped growth and inflation for years, heading towards guaranteed bankruptcy even if the banking crisis had never happened.

    2. The tories aren’t cutting spending at all; spending overall is going up by about 2% per year for the next 5 years, more or less in line with inflation, and growth. Spending in some individual departments may be going down in real or even cash terms, but that’s really just because departments like the NHS are getting massive amounts of extra money well above what they need and without any inspection of whether or not they’re currently burning all the money.

    Costs in some departments are rising due to more unemployed for example, but it’s not a sizeable rise of costs; it could easily be outweighed by someone coming in from the private sector and improving how they manage things.

    For example, in the NHS, instead of being able to make an appointment to see a specialist when you’ve got a specific problem, you have to see your GP, then get them to refer you to a relevant unit, then you go to that unit, see a nurse who goes through your notes and makes an appointment for you to see a doctor in the unit, then you see that doctor who then makes an appointment for you to see the relevant specialist. Then you see the specialist (finally) and get a prescription or get booked in for surgery. During all this there are countless admin staff filling in pieces of paper about each stage. It takes about 20 man-hours to do what should have taken 0.5 man-hours.

    The NHS also spent something like 12 or 13billion quid on a software system that overran its budget, never got finished after many years, never worked, and ended up being put in the bin, whereas such a system could have been created within a month by just a handful of competent I.T. analysts and developers.

    Cameron won’t touch the NHS, but it’s the largest employer in Europe and is the one that’s wasting all the money. Real cuts to council budgets etc are only happening because Cameron doesn’t have the balls to tell the NHS (or schools) to run themselves properly.

    So, yes, labour are lying about the economic situation, but the tories are equally guilty of not having the balls to try and fix the real problem which is massively negligent management in most government departments, including the NHS.

  107. 482
    Wot defecit? says:

    Brown and Balls ran a deliberate permanent deficit policy for purely political reasons, to keep them in power.

    Running an economy in deficit allowed Labour to throw the “how many thousand teachers, doctors and nurses jobs?” to any hint of spending restraint that came from the Conservatives spending plans. If cuts are made with a deficit, there’s no money cushion, so jobs have to go. A tactic that can’t be used if you run a budget surplus, when restrained spending can be accommodated in the surplus. A tactic that won Labour 3 elections.

    Labours deficit was purely ideological.

    • 484
      Wot deficit? says:

      Cameron and Osborne agreed to match Labour’s spending plans.

      • 486
        Wot no deficit? says:

        Exactly, that was Labour’s 3 times election winning strategy, to force the opposition into agreeing with their economic policy

  108. 487
    I hate New Labour says:

    “Does he think the voters can be convinced that overspending wasn’t a problem until the banking crisis?”

    Why not? Most people think Al Queda exists after all, convincing them of this will be easy.

    Also, whilst completely unlikeable, Balls has the quality of not being Gordon Brown.

  109. 497
    A Real Tory says:

    Who is writing this blog now, and why has he opened and closed this paragraph with comma splices:

    “Clearly both the Eds think they can blame it on the bankers, popular understanding of the deficit is hazy. The huge one-off costs of bailing out the banks and the constant government-debt-bloating-deficit are confused in the popular consciousness. Even the debt and the deficit are confused in many people’s minds. Whenever Ed Miliband is cornered on spending or taxes he reaches for the banker bogeyman – tax them more and it will sort everything out. None of this adds up to anyone with any financial literacy, which unfortunately is a minority of voters, the majority of voters do blame and detest the bankers.”

  110. 498
    StrongholdBarricades says:

    The issue is whether or not the actual banking policy before the crash was a deliberate attempt to actually smash the banking system of the capitalist west.

    The Last government didn’t bring in any new regulation, other than the tri-umvirate, despite some really dire warnings from some in the industry.

    Plus on top of this, you really have to call into question the actual independance of the bank of england when merv the swerve didn’t take his own advice and chase up the regulatory authorities.

  111. 499
    Paul Marks says:

    Yes Guido.

    In going for Ed Balls Labour is now committed to hard line Keynesianism – the pure Cambridge/Harvard Axis.

    This is depressing because it means that the tradition of common sense in the Labour party (and there is one) has been utterly defeated.


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A confused Nick Griffin says Nigel Farage is a shill for the City, forgetting that City banks want to stay in the EU:

“Farage is a snake oil salesman, but a very good one. His supposed anti-immigration stance is all smoke and mirrors, as is his carefully cultivated image as a ‘man of the people’. The truth is that UKIP is a pro-immigration party that exists to lobby for the interests of the City of London.”



Alexrod says:

It’s money innit.


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