December 28th, 2010

ePetitions Will Enhance Democracy

One of the problems with modern representative democracy is that it is disconnected from the voters. Despite focus groups, polling and intense marketing to voters, politicians are still unable to engage successfully with voters.

There are a number of issues where the political class refuses to carry out the wishes of the people. All polls show that there is majority support for capital punishment, yet there is no majority for it in parliament. It is not even an issue for parliamentarians even though the incidence of homicide is higher now than it was before the abolition of hanging. If the e-petitions legislation passes, Guido will put all the resources at his command into a campaign for a vote on the restoration of capital punishment for child and cop killers. Even if we don’t win the vote on the floor of the House, we shall at least see which MPs believe salus populi suprema est lex, and those that put the welfare of child killers above the wider community. Bring it on…


434 Comments

  1. 1

    abolish Parliament and let Google be the new Commons

  2. 2
    Road_Hog says:

    And what happens if someone gets wrongly convicted?

  3. 3
    smoggie says:

    They can unhang him.

  4. 4

    first petition Sky News Muslim Weather Girl should be the new Climate Change Minister

    http://londonmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/12/sky-news-muslim-weather-girl-nazaneen.html

  5. 5
    IanVisits says:

    Frankly, I suspect the idea will quietly die a death within a year of being launched.

    A scenario:

    e-petitions launched.

    Professional lobby groups pour vast resources into being the first to get debated in order to secure the free publicity it will attract.

    First debate will be on either returning the death sentence or leaving the EU.

    The MPs will debate the issue to please the media, then stick two fingers up at the electorate by voting the proposal down.

    Everyone finally realises what a waste of time it is, and the system is then used by lobby groups to justify their huge fees by claiming to be able to marshal huge numbers of “rent a click” petitioners, in full knowledge that it is impotent in effect.

    After the next election it is quietly dropped.

    This e-petitions proposal makes the EDM look like good value for money!

  6. 6
    simone says:

    You can add Immigration & Europe. Two other issues where the political class just ‘understand better’ than the overwhelming majority of the electorate.

  7. 7
    Zorro says:

    There is enough forensic and camera evidence availale now to minimise the classic cases of the past such as Derek Bentley.

    I broadly agree with the thrust of Guido’s proposed campaign though.

  8. 8
    The Watcher says:

    Britain is a representative democracy not a direct democracy. In fact when compared with Switzerland which uses referendums to guide the politics, Britain is, as Lord Hailsham remarked, an elective dictatorship. I would also bring back capital punishment for child rapists and gang rapists. It will never happen until the party system is smashed. Right now if that meant civil war, I would welcome it because Britain has come to resemble a mental institution where the patients have taken control.

  9. 9
    smoggie says:

    Those who stick two fingers up would jeopardise their majority vote. I suspect they’d think very carefully about what the electorate actually wants if they wanted to keep their cushy jobs.

  10. 10
    Observer says:

    Time for legislation to cut the sum that Britain pays to the EU. This should be the first spending cut and there is enormous scope for savings.

  11. 11
    Tessa Tickles says:

    +1

  12. 12
    BBC Tumbleweed Watch says:

    Capital punishment is ruled out by the ECHR (although from memory I believe there is provision for it at time of war or civil strife), and for membership of the EU we need to be signatories to the ECHR. So without leaving the EU we couldn’t reinstate capital punishment.

    Perhaps the focus of any such referendum should, therefore, be on our EU membership?

  13. 13
    Tessa Tickles says:

    Two interesting items caught my eye today: Cameron’s increased foreign aid to just over £11bn per annum, and he shelved anti-flu jabs for the under-5s to save £85m.

    What a cock.

  14. 14
    Anonymous says:

    You can add wind turbines as well if they going to go down that road.

  15. 15
    Tessa Tickles says:

    What do man-made global warming and Allah have in common?

    Neither exist.

  16. 16
    Shocked of Sheen says:

    Fair point, well made…

  17. 17
    smoggie says:

    Oo, er. You’re going to have two sets of fanatics on your back now.

  18. 18
    Anonymous says:

    “to minimise”

    Well, there we go then – if only a minimal number of wrongly convicted people are murdered by the state to satisfy people’s blood lust then everything is just fine.

    Gudio, you got on your moral high horse when people protested the Pope’s visit but yet you seem perfectly happy to support something which directly cotradicts one of the few laws God actually set. Maybe your love for Christ and the death penalty are closely related?

    Aren’t you someone who campaigns for less state control in people’s lives? Yet, in reality, you actually want the state to have power over legalised murder. A classic example of people not actually wanting a smaller state but just one that does what it wants it to do?

    Stick to tittle tattle, on everything else you are the blogging equivalent of the nutter on the bus.

  19. 19
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    And leave the EU !!!!!!!

    Hanging for MPs who lie or steal

  20. 20
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    And Guido , A debate would be good on capital punishment but i have a fear, Unless we can have a fool prove system where not one innocent person is wrongly convicted and Hung then i am against it , And also the mission creep , yes it might be a good idea to hang pedos and cop killers but what happens in 50 or so years and then it could be treason and then you could have anti-goverment voices being threatend , If you get my drift .

  21. 21
    keddaw says:

    “…those that put the welfare of child killers above the wider community.”

    Or put the lives of potentially innocent people above your blood lust.

  22. 22

    So let me get this right. The state shouldn’t be allowed to read your Emails as that is anti Libertarian and against civil liberties but should be allowed to kill you.

    Ye gods, Guido.

  23. 23
    Ampers says:

    I am afraid you’re in the minority in the UK son.

    And anyway, the earth doubles its population every forty years and this is going down. So by 2040 there will be 12 billion mouths to feed.

    A few extra deaths might help a little, and Nature’s famine, AIDs, Wars and Homosexuality will all help. But we need to do much more. I see the time when we will have to restrict births to one per couple.

    Abd what about blackmail? And drug barons?

  24. 24

    Leave wind turbines out of this £££££££££££££££££££

  25. 25
    Ampers says:

    Not so, they all know you only have a real choice of two, so will ignore you.

  26. 26
    V. Reasonable (Mrs) says:

    Hear hear!

  27. 27
    Ampers says:

    Charity begins at home, except for the English.

  28. 28
    Ampers says:

    What about hanging MPs who stand for more than two terms unless they have been on the ministerial ladder?

  29. 29
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    ” I would welcome it because Britain has come to resemble a mental institution where the patients have taken control.”

    And thats after the election !

  30. 30
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Upto the voters . Thats why i dont like the yanky thing about only serving two terms as President , As a politicon you should live and die by the ballot box

  31. 31
    Anonymous says:

    @OH, representative democracy in action.

    Just as, if the Daily Hate/Grauniad/Mirror/Indescribably brigade were stupid enough to vote for compulsory ID cards, everyone else living in the UK would have to go along with it too.

    The issue IMO is whether legislation is proposed/passed that reflects the will of the majority of people. If I don’t like that proposed legislation, then I’ll vote against it, &/or ignore it/leave the country to avoid being affected by it.

    At the moment We The People appear to have the worst of all worlds – a paternalist political class who imposes their morality on everyone else, whilst ignoring what the proles think.

  32. 32
    Ampers says:

    Someone mentioned Treason, who mentioned treason?

    When Blair took over the only capital punishment on our books was for treason. He, very quickly, got that off the books didn’t he?

    There are still around seven Ministerss from the 1973 Government still alive. There’s seven for a start. Then there are all those who took us in further, and then there are those who keep us in against the will of the people.

    How many lamp posts do we have in Westminster?

    Ampers.

  33. 33
    Anonymous says:

    +1

  34. 34
    The silent Majority says:

    Some out of touch socialist paper reviewer on Sky this morning said it was a bad idea as “minority” groups would force a vote on leaving the EU

  35. 35
    Charles Hercock says:

    EU withdrawal is a goer
    See Coffee house
    Lets get a blogging head of steam

  36. 36
    Snowdog says:

    Why only for child and cop killers? I agree with you making special case for child killers but what makes a coppers life worth more than yours or mine? Death penalty for all premeditated murder.

  37. 37
    smoggie says:

    I think it was for High Treason i.e treason in time of war. But since we were always at war during Blair’s time, it is a moot point.

  38. 38
    Hanging Judge Roy Bean says:

    Wrong the law is set apart from the state.

    Only in this country would the law try to prevent huntly killing himself

  39. 39
    smoggie says:

    So won’t he be afraid you’ll vote for the other one?

  40. 40
    The King is in the altogether says:

    We’re talking about petitions at local government level, right ? So we could end up with local witch-hunts against out-numbered individuals. Sounds like a descent into the Dark Ages to me.
    Meanwhile, Westminster has been studiously ignoring national petitions.
    But what if Cameron did take notice ? He’d likely do a U-turn in response to every new petition, judging on his recent performances. He’d end up looking like a granny knot.
    And do you seriously expect me to support the police when they’ve been turned into a political tool and used to criminalise law-abiding citizens while allowing the real criminals to carry on wrecking and looting this country ?

  41. 41
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    O/T , England will retain the Ashes in the 1st session when play resumes.

  42. 42
    Nick2 says:

    My $euro 0.0333 worth?

    ‘None of the above’ on every ballot form – and the returning officer would actually have to recall the election in any constituency where NOTA got the largest vote (as opposed to merely recording what would be regarded as a protest vote).

    If the political class realised that they weren’t going to automatically be voted in as Buggins’ turn, then they might make a greater attempt to actually listen to/serve their electorate, rather than parading around like the constituency Royal.

  43. 43
    mhayworth says:

    Can’t wait!

  44. 44
    Anonymous says:

    No-one watches Sky, therefore the epetition will fail.

    Besides, what are her qualifications, other than her opinion being worth half of her fathers?

  45. 45
    Arnie Van Damm says:

    If this morning’s news on recent arrests is anything to go by, the re-introducion of capital punishment will mean a reduction in our Moslem Pupulation

  46. 46
    Eeu to me says:

    Lets free ourselves from the EUSSR shackles and taxes and stupid lightbulb type laws,then WE the people can argue about hanging,windmills ,corruption,treason etc and make suitable laws with proven honest judges dishing the laws out.

  47. 47
    Engineer says:

    What wind turbine industry? They’re manufactured abroad these days.

  48. 48
    Anonymous says:

    @Arnie Van Damm

    Or alternatively, live cremation for all the g+ys, J o o s, apost*tes, & religion deniers living in the UK within 25 years…

  49. 49
    Dave Figgley says:

    Ha ha. This is complete bollocks, mate. “All polls show that there is majority support for capital punishment.” Oh yeah? That would be polls of Sun and Daily Mail readers would it?
    It will never happen, son, but just supposing the death penalty is reinstated; the nonces, ponces, killers and other assorted vermin will spend more time banged up at our expense, while the various appeals and legal processes are allowed to run their course, than they would if they’d been handed a “life” sentence.
    If there were to be any winners in such a situation, it would be the vultures and parasites that make up the legal profession.

    If I can think it through in 3 minutes flat, why can’t you, mate?

  50. 50
    Dr Roberts says:

    Wouldn’t this give rise to Harriet Harman’s Court of Popular Opinion which she is in favour of/against?

  51. 51

    The death penalty is great until you string up the wrong person, digging them up later and saying sorry doesn’t really put things right.

  52. 52
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Modded !!!!

  53. 53
    Engineer says:

    In order to make it an ePetition, rather than just an ordinary Petition, would it have to be raised in Yorkshire?

  54. 54
    Engineer says:

    In that case, the death penalty wouldn’t apply, would it? They are accused of conspiracy to cause explosions (or similar); they didn’t actually kill anyone (thankfully).

  55. 55
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Very good Eng , Just like Timmy Bresnan.

  56. 56
    Eeu to me says:

    Billy I usuallly leave sport to other people,as I just don’t give a toss who wins,so long as people have enjoyed themselves.

  57. 57
    Five Go Mad On Billy's Cock says:

    Bowled a grass-cutter, Billy?

  58. 58
    Engineer says:

    …..probably in front of a virtually empty stadium. Just the Barmy Army, the press corps and a few groundsmen.

    Still very satisfying, though.

  59. 59
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    My E-petitons : Tony Blair to the Hauge

    English Parliment

    Leave the EU

    scrap the smoking ban

    Halve MPs pay at all levels

  60. 60
    Dave Figgley says:

    Ha ha! Where’s my fucking comment gone, FFS? I don’t reckon this blog is long for this world, mate.

  61. 61
    Arnie Van Damm says:

    Surely they should be charged with Treason?

  62. 62
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Tis Funny , Before the test match they said the Barmy Army would be drowned out , Barmy Army have been fuckin brilliant , out sung and out classed the Aussies

  63. 63
    Now that Parliament has been "cleansed" says:

    E petitions will enhance democracy.
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, pause for breath, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, clutches sides, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, wipes away tears with copy of members lobby interests, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha………………………………..

  64. 64
    13eastie says:

    Тhе ѕаlubrіоuѕ, juѕtісе-lоvіng, lіbеrtаrіаn rеgіmеѕ іn hоmісіdе-frее соuntrіеѕ thаt Guіdо wоuld lіkе uѕ tо bе mоrе lіkе (wіth thеіr rаtеѕ оf ѕtаtе еxесutіоn іn 2009):

    1 	Реорlе'ѕ Rерublіс оf Сhіnа
    	Оffісіаlly nоt rеlеаѕеd.
    	Аt lеаѕt 1700 (еѕtіmаtеd), mаy bе аѕ mаny аѕ 10,000 реr yеаr.
    2 	Іrаn		Аt lеаѕt 388
    3 	Іrаq		Аt lеаѕt 120
    4 	Ѕаudі Аrаbіа	Аt lеаѕt 69
    5 	Unіtеd Ѕtаtеѕ	52
    6 	Yеmеn		Аt lеаѕt 30
    7 	Ѕudаn		Аt lеаѕt 9
    8 	Vіеtnаm		Аt lеаѕt 9
    9 	Ѕyrіа		Аt lеаѕt 8
    10 	Jараn		7
    11 	Еgyрt		Аt lеаѕt 5
    12 	Lіbyа		Аt lеаѕt 4
    

    Yоu mаkе yоurѕеlf lооk а tоtаl аrѕе bаngіng оn аbоut thіѕ, Guіdо…

  65. 65
    Concerned Moslem parent says:

    What we have here is a failure to launch.

  66. 66
    A N Other says:

    “And put my white sheet on again,
    I ain’t seen one good lynchin’ in years.”

  67. 67
    miss congeniality says:

    more important than anything is the right to recall our MPs so that they have to represent their consituencies instead of just representing their parties

  68. 68
    The Watcher says:

    Here’s the foolproof system:
    1 – introduce a not proven judgment as applies in Scotland.
    2 – introduce crime passionale for husbands and wives (partners) who have been bullied and driven to extremes.
    3 – With 1st degree murder introduce culpable homicide with intent and where proven by DNA execution follows.
    4 – Make life mean life – ie you come out in a pine box the way the liberal liars guaranteed things would be when they shrilled for the death penalty to be ended.
    5 – Make a law that if anyone involved in the criminal justice system which leads to conviction is convicted post execution of having perverted the course of justice, they suffer the same penalty. That should wake up lazy and bent coppers and judges and forensic operations. Include anyone trying to nobble the jury.

    All this whining about “what if an innocent person is executed” can be destroyed by asking “Aren’t murder victims innocent?” – so there may be a 0.5% chance of a perp being innocent. There is a 100% chance that there is no recidivism from guilty dead murderers.

  69. 69
    Ad Lib says:

    You’re way off base with this Guido. If anyone believes in liberty they have to believe that nothing save nature itself can deprive someone completely of his life and liberty. Capital punishment undermines the basic premise of respect for liberty, and mere reciprocity to criminals of the way they behave towards others does not uphold it as a principle.

    Liberty is more important than the tyranny of the majority.

  70. 70
    Willsteed says:

    Bring THAT on!

  71. 71
    nohandsclapping says:

    Strictly Widdecombe, X-Factor Wagner, the trials of Celebrity McKeith…. can’t wait to see what the House has to debate.

  72. 72
    I Remember You Hoo says:

    Of course not, he understands perfectly that ‘buggins turn’ will deliver them a term in the big chairs soon enough. If you vote for the big three, nothing will ever change for the better. It’s a club, a corrupt club of insiders and dealers and we are not in it, we just legitimise their corruption and theft by voting for the same crooks repeatedly.

  73. 73
    Telemachus says:

    Charles hercock

    Let us indeed get out of the EU

    Have an end of Lefties like Ken Clarke

  74. 74
    I Remember You Hoo says:

    They may be built abroad but there is big, big money to be made out of subsidies here.

  75. 75
    I Remember You Hoo says:

    It’s really quite simple, they hate us and want to see us impoverished. They are all our enemy.

  76. 76

    Restoration of capital punishment will become fair again, when and only when individuals have this right that they can then delegate to an agentcy called “The State”: the right to kill someone in self-defence when one’s life or the life of one’s family is attacked.

    Old Holborn is right: you can’t delegate, either upwards or downwards, a right that you don’t legally possess. Let the State restore that, and this petition will mean something.

    Oh and why is the life of a child or a “cop” any more valuable than the life of another random individual? Give the State this sort of discretion and it will soon “nationalise” children and policemen, followed by bureaucrats of all kinds, and we know where that leads.

  77. 77
    P.C. Filth says:

    SIR- I must have signed the online petition calling for the immediate resignation of the Prime Minister at least fifteen times, sir.
    My selfless actions appear to have accomplished absolutely nothing, as the deluded megalomaniac is still firmly ensconced in Downing Street.
    One has to question the effectiveness of e-petitioning, sir. Over.

  78. 78
    hangingaswankfodder says:

    Why is it worse to kill a “cop” (or “policeman” for those of us who aren’t either Americans or derive our poltical beliefs from a DVD box-set of Starsky and Hutch) than to kill a civilian?

    Why is it worse to kill a child than to kill an adult?

    I notice that Guido stops short of recommending the death penalty for fucking a child but that would inconvenience his pal the Pope, I suppose.

    Just picture the scene, Guido’s pasty, flabby, sweaty arse wobbling to the rhythm of him wanking furiously while listening to the radio news announcing the latest execution. Then popping off to confess it all to a child-rapist at his local church.

  79. 79
    Lurch says:

    Abstainers should be counted as NOTA votes too.

  80. 80

    Libertarians believe in defending life, liberty and property with lethal force if necessary.

  81. 81
    Ali D says:

    What a great idea!!

    How about an English Parliament for England.

    I’m half Scots, but I never wanted separate parliaments/assemblies for Scotland and Wales, nor was I ever consulted on them. Bliar committed constitutional vandalism for party advantage. How can it be right for (mainly Liebore) MPs in Scotland to legislate on, say, education and health in England, when it does not affect their own constituents?

  82. 82
    Ad Lib says:

    But capital punishment is never “necessary” or indeed expedient in the protection of life, liberty and property.

    It’s one thing to kill another person where they pose immediate danger to your life, liberty or property (for example, an armed burglar enters your house). It is quite another to engage in a premeditated lethal response sanctioned by the state when a person is already in its custody and has had their liberty substantially restricted by incarceration.

  83. 83
    Engineer says:

    Just a point of order – Police are civilians, they’re not members of the armed services. We do, however, ask them to do things most of us would balk at, such as arresting armed robbers, so it seems fair enough that Police discharging their duties should be accorded recognition of the risks we ask them to take on our behalf.

  84. 84

    The public support for executing child killers is over-whelming and the public also think cops deserve extra deterrant protection from criminals because they put themselves in harms way. The death penalty will make cop killers think twice.

  85. 85
    I, literally, died laughing says:

    So you withhold taxes that are spent, on your behalf, destroying life, liberty and property?

  86. 86
    Cheese Grater says:

    I think the cheese grater to the cck and balls for peedos will be effective. Have not come up with a version for female peedos yet.
    The problem with capital punishment is that it could mean that innocent people could be murdered by us as a result. The present system is not working though. Prisons are just holiday camps run by the State.

  87. 87
    13eastie says:

    Killing a child is cowardly.

    Therefore, anyone who does this must be outnumbered by a group burly men (stupid and weak-willed enough not to question what they are doing or witnessing) and made to climb onto a scaffold while wearing handcuffs before having his face covered up so the State doesn’t have to acknowledge it as he is hanged.

  88. 88
    PD77 says:

    Sign me up for that one then!!!

  89. 89
    Bradders The Badger says:

    Excactly. How Guido handles the cognitive dissonance, I don’t know.

  90. 90
    PD77 says:

    Forget the homosexual angle after all Elton’s got a surrogate to carry his and his partners child, just wondering if they had a toss off to see who’d be the sperm donor?

  91. 91
    Eeu to me says:

    Engineer,plod are not civilians they are now part of a political army the establishment ,they dress in military clothes and the smt get their orders via a private company called ACPO,they stopped being civilians when the politician’s sicced them on the miners,deservedly that depends if you came from a mining community.

  92. 92
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Ok , I am a bit thick , is there any Europeon country that has the death pen?

  93. 93
    Who's Who? says:

    So who is the Father, Elton John or his husband?

  94. 94
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    And Guido , Why only child killers ? What about someone who has a few too many D*inks and knocks over a 19yr old ?

    Maybe you are advocating Death pen for murder convictions , One life a adult or a child is of same value , And is the death pen against human rights law?

    What about people who sexually abuse kids/vunrable adults ?

    This is a grey and emotive area and we dont have a fool proof crimanl justice system

  95. 95
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Both ?

  96. 96
    Engineer says:

    My recollection of the 1984 miners’ dispute is that, after the problems of the ’70s, a large swathe of the population were heartily sick of being held to ransom by unions, and didn’t support Scargill and his useful idiots. Nobody likes to see decent people thrown out of work, but the mining industry in Britain was grossly uneconomic, and had to be made more efficient or cut back. Scargill made it clear that he wouldn’t be constructive about it, so confrontation was inevitable. The government has a responsibility to control riots, and did.

    The big mistake the miners made was appointing Scargill and McGahey in the first place. They were not interested in the welfare of miners, they had a deeper political agenda. Fortunately, they failed, but the colateral damage to miners’ prospects was considerable.

  97. 97
    Boo to techmology and ting, innit says:

    One of the problems with technology is that threads don’t appear on the homepage. Cheers to Billy for putting the link to this in the Monday cartoon thread.

  98. 98
    Anonymous says:

    Giving the State the right to kill? Wow – talk about big government. I thought you were a libertarian?

  99. 99
    Flawed logic says:

    Yes, because we can see that there are no child and cop murders in the United States which has the death penalty in all but one or two states. Clearly the deterrent works there.

    People’s gut instinct is to see killers executed. The fact is that if you truly want to punish killers, keeping them locked up is the best way. Already within a week of being imprisoned the Crossbow Cannibal has attempted to commit suicide. Brady has gone to court multiple times to be allowed to starve himself to death. Hindley never stopped her appeals to be freed. Shipman killed himself. Fred West killed himself. All these evil fuckers want or wanted the quick and easy way out. Executing a killer is giving him or her exactly what they want. They want the easy exit. They don’t want to be deprived of their freedom. Wanting capital punishment restored is just a knee jerk reaction and indicative of putting simple emotion over efficacy and reason. The irony is that what the pro-death penalty brigade want is precisely what these murderers want.

  100. 100
    You are an utterly thick and useless cunt who believes in magical sky daddies and books written by desert dwelling perverts thousands of years ago says:

    @Anonymong, Wow. You think atheists – religion deniers as you call us – should be executed? Just proves my long held belief that religion just engenders hatred, stupidity and evil, rather ironic given that you’re supposed to be about love and forgiveness and compassion. God is love indeed.

  101. 101
    Mike Hunt says:

    Mandatory if we are to reintroduce the ultimate sanction.

  102. 102
    Mike Hunt says:

    What does her religion have to do with it?

  103. 103
    Mike Hunt says:

    It’s referenda.

  104. 104
    Fuck off, Abu Wanker says:

    @London Muslim, nice try, terrorist, but having looked her up it’s quite clear she’s NOT a muslim. Idiots like you call anyone who happens to have a middle eastern name or was born to muslim parents a muslim. No one is born a muslim or a christian etc. You’d like to make people think she’s a muslim in order to improve the image of your terrorist religion. Anyone who’s seen photos of this lovely looking girl in her short skirts can see she obviously doesn’t follow the insane rules of your disgusting religion. She just has a name that originates from one of those backward loser countries. Here’s a photo which shows her dressed in a delightfully western and non-islamic way, which your fat halitosis ridden misogynist mates would regard as grounds for stoning her to death, you fucking terrorist c unt.

  105. 105
    Mike Hunt says:

    What about poor Stefan Kiszko convicted wrongly for the murder of Lesley Molseed? He was obviously guilty, until they looked at the evidence.

    Mind you, he did get the death sentence, as did his poor mother.

  106. 106
    Eurovision Song Contest says:

    Israel?

  107. 107
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    A possible argument against the type that runs along the lines, “there is majority support for …xyz” is that such very circumstances gave us three terms of Labour government under Blair and then Brown, the latter of whom never had any support from anyone and who managed to ruin our country into the bargain.

    I would caution that we need to be very careful here.

  108. 108
    Hugh Bristic says:

    The modern Parliament evolved to protect the citizen against autocratic monarchy.
    The development of a disciplinarian party system inhibits MPs from resisting the dictatorial behaviour of the executive. The modern party system is becoming as undemocratic as absolute monarchy.
    The freedom of the individual is eroded by the growth of the State, whichever party is in power.
    Referenda work well in Switzerland by preventing governments from imposing legislation.
    I can see no good reason why referenda cannot become mandatory in a modern democracy.

  109. 109
    Crikey. says:

    They don’t give a monkeys about murderers (or victims) of any stripe. They are just robotically complying with Brussels. They would prefer to pretend to be “out of touch” than challenge the party line.

  110. 110
    Mike Hunt says:

    They certainly dress like the armed forces. The days of them being ‘one of us’ have long gone.

  111. 111
    Anonymous says:

    Every year, innocent people are killed by convicted muderers who are out on parole or have served their jail time. Strange that no one seems to give a stuff about these innocents?

  112. 112
    Mike Hunt says:

    That’s how I remember it too.

    The country’s reliance on coal by that time was considerably reduced, particularly in the South Wales coal fields which was primarily for running steam engines. Scargill was living in a fantasy land that turned into a nightmare with no winners, and many thousands of losers.

  113. 113
    Alf Garnett says:

    Great, and whilst we’re at it, can we have recusants burnt at the stake, suspected witches “swum” and hung, and all the other trappings of a modern enlightened society? If you really want to live in a country with the moral standards and ethics of the United States where judicial murder of mentally-ill and often, it appears, innocent people, is the norm, then go there by all means.

    Or if that doesn’t appeal, then perhaps a country where sharia law applies, and hands and heads are severed would suit better.

    This is not one of your best ideas, Guido, and I would suggest it is unworthy of one who professes Christianity.

  114. 114
    Inadequate male says:

    As an inadequate male I am all for women being kept in their place and under the thumb. Bring on some of this sharia.

  115. 115
    Anonymous says:

    The Indian space programme needs support you know. Those rockets and satellites don’t launch themselves for free.

  116. 116
    The Left hope the crocodile will eat them last, yet it will still eat them..... says:

    It’s a redundant arguement anyway because sharia law will be implemented in this country within the next few decades, so capital punishment will be making comeback despite the pinkos crying otherwise.

  117. 117
    Anonymous says:

    You’ve missed 47’s point. He’s just projecting the current demographic statistics ahead 25 years, and making a prediction for what the voters of 2035 will demand.

  118. 118
    Rufus Stone says:

    Phooaaarrrr – I bet she has a warm front

  119. 119
    streamfisher says:

    Better to re-instate the offence of Treason ( re-destroying British Culture, Iraq, Afghanistan, devolving citizens rights to the EU and wrecking our economy) abolished by Labour but as that would mostly concern only MPs and former Prime Ministers its not likely to get on any agenda.

  120. 120
    Blimey says:

    Bollocks, they are just voting the way the whips tell them to.

  121. 121
    Blimey says:

    Absolutely, it’s not even a representative democracy, they vote the way the party tells them to and the party takes its instructions from the EU.

  122. 122
    hang M says:

  123. 123
    Laing says:

    “One of the problems with modern representative democracy is that it is disconnected from the voters…”

    SO IT’S NOT REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY IS IT?

  124. 124
    Kill all commies says:

    A pinko wears sandals even in the winter time because boots are a Right-Wing concept.

  125. 125
    Laing says:

    agree entirely. The politicians only show deference to the people at voting time. Once every five years is not good enough. The culture of politics is unhealthy for this country. Politicians and big business are the enemies of the people

  126. 126
    Alfred Rosenberg says:

    why don’t we abolish Mr Lomu?

  127. 127
    steerpike says:

    Anyone can be wrongly convicted of killing a child, a cop or anyone else for that matter. It could be Guido being convicted, or me, or the family down the street. Are we going to execute them all and hope that the wrongly convicted ones don’t mind too much??

    And what about cops who kill members of the public for no valid reason? Are we going to execute them too?

    And what about kids who kill other kids? Execute them?

  128. 128
    Alfred Rosenberg says:

    The State is the people.The people must have justice.

  129. 129
    Must get a pseudonym one day says:

    And guess who collects most of the generous subsidies – yup, it’s all the wealthy landowners, landed gentry etc. Nothing’s changed since the highland clearances.

  130. 130
    Rat's arse says:

    Well said Billy!

  131. 131
    Masked Rabbit says:

    Give me a time and a date. “Gentlemen! Start your Keyboards”

  132. 132
    streamfisher says:

    They didn’t dare to give the people a referendum on the EU despite broken promises, the only vox populi they are in favour of comes around once every 5 years and even then they do their level best to fiddle the result, “modern democracy” is new world order = autocracy of states.

  133. 133
    silly billy says:

    can’t wait to see who does the breast feeding!

  134. 134
    Rat's arse says:

    All true ‘Engineer’, Scargill put his assets into his wife’s name and didn’t lose out one little bit. He was an unmittigated w a n k e r and the miners followed him like lemmings.

  135. 135
    Your friendly local MP says:

    there many reasons for our government not giving people any say in political matters:

    1. the people are stupid
    2. thepeople are stupid
    3. the people are stupid

    if that doesn’t work, the people can always be patronised, bullied, lied to, arrested, criminalised and shot

  136. 136
    Must get a pseudonym one day says:

    Capital punishment should only be restored with some cavaets:-

    First, it must apply equally for any human life taken – the life of a police officer or a child has no higher value than the life of a tramp – it’s a life and is not to be taken illicitly.

    Secondly, it should only apply where the guilty party has admitted guilt and understands that the alternative is whole-of-life incarceration. That would ensure that no irreversible miscarriages of justice occurred, thus eliminating the principal objection to its restoration, and would keep all convicted killers off the streets permanently, never to re-offend.

    If the petition says that, I’ll sign – if not, I won’t.

  137. 137
    uyrtviu6tv says:

    More of a librarian.

  138. 138
    Marmite says:

    Yes Steerpike; at last you’ve cottoned on! Anyone who deliberately kills another person should be put to death, along with paedoes etc. Let’s face it, we wouldn’t miss these twisted bags of shite!

  139. 139
    No Longer Free says:

    Have the police shot anybody today?

  140. 140
    Beast 666 says:

    Oh dear Guido have you thought this through? I think what is needed is tougher laws and sentences. Prison should reflect the crime, no computers, no sky tv, no daily jaunts to the gym, no fussy diets, NO VOTING RIGHTS etc. I doubt many people will be wanting to go to prison when they realise Butlins holiday camp is permanently closed.

  141. 141
    Engineer says:

    Big business is not an enemy of the people. It generates revenue, from which taxable profits are made, and it provides employment. It can do things requiring high capitalisation that small business cannot do. The problems arise when businesses act irresponsibly; that’s where government regulation and executive moral responsibility come in.

    Besides, how do you define ‘big’? Rolls Royce? W.H.Smiths? Waitrose? Network Rail?

  142. 142
    Cato Street Conspirator says:

    ‘If the ePetitions legislation passes, Guido will put all the resources at his command into a campaign for a vote on the restoration of capital punishment for child and cop killers.’

    It’s statistically far more likely that a copper will kill one of us than be killed him/herself. So I assume they’ll be facing the rope as well rather than invariably getting away with it.

  143. 143
    Cato Street Conspirator says:

    The problem with representative democracy is that it is ‘representative’ rather than direct. If my boss and I live in the same constituency how can the MP claim to speak for both of us? The boss’s job is to screw as much work out of me for as little recompense as possible. My job is to screw as much money out of him for as little work as possible. There is no middle way and ‘a far day’s pay for a fair day’s work’ is nonsense.

  144. 144
    Postlethwaite says:

    Child and cop killers eh?
    What makes them so special?
    What about the rest of us?
    And how about cops killing members of the public, let’s say shooting them through the head seven times?

    ‘I ‘it ‘im wif my truncheon in the guts and he died with his hands in his pockets. Yes you’re honor i feered for my life”.

  145. 145
    Postlethwaite says:

    Wonder when wikileaks Assange will be accused of murder?

  146. 146
    Pickled Wizard says:

    First one to fill the pot wins PD77

  147. 147
    Dave makes his views clear on Coalition politics says:

    I keep telling you,the public, that we live in a democracy which means that MPs are elected by the people and we value your opinions enormously but you elected us to take those tough decisons on your behalf

    In May no one party won the election and YOU told us that you wanted the Conservatives and LibDems to work together as equal partners for the national good and that is what I am doing

    (Sorry that’s my mobile I shall have to take it…it may be important …I am Prime Minister now you know…I may have to make a life or death decision……oh it’s only you again Nick ….sorry the reception is pretty bad …..you’re breaking up……now c’mon Nick that was a joke………did you say something ? Yes OF COURSE I value your opinion……but it’s best to let someone who understands these things actually make policy…you go off and talk to some students there’s a good chap)Now where was I ????? Oh yes working together as equal partners………

  148. 148
    streamfisher says:

    That’s what I was thinking why jump from the sublime to the ridiculous, bang them up for twenty years not 8 for murder, cut off their supply of narcotics and the a la carte menu, no tv ,no mobile phones and get them sewing mail bags again, that would make think twice before committing a capital offence.

  149. 149
    Lil Olmey says:

    Didn’t think the Phoney One was William’s type.

  150. 150
    Pickled Wizard says:

    Ok – High lamp posts then

  151. 151
    Pickled Wizard says:

    Look back to the watchers comments above – he talks sense

  152. 152
    Pickled Wizard says:

    Eltons got bigger tits….

  153. 153
    Judge Jeffries says:

    If we had “proper” life sentences then Guido’s campaign would not have legs to carry it along. My dad used to say that cop killers and child murderers should be given twenty years hard labour and then hung after having served the twenty years!!! The solution is a life sentence that means what it says…

  154. 154
    Anonymous says:

    It’s Elective Dictatorship according to Lord Hailsham.

  155. 155
    Ms Gnomer says:

    Capital punishment is a good demonstration of why opinion polls are not a valid indicator of democratic will. The poll linked to here features a question that assumes guilt is known – but we know that in a world of crooked and/or incompetent police and prosecutors, innocent people are often convicted. Under the “child killer” proposal, Sally Clark would have been executed.

    An MP has the latitude to balance that reality against mob-minded hang-em-all sentiments, and that’s why the state in this country does not currently kill citizens. Good.

  156. 156
    Anonymous says:

    You’ve been watching too many films!
    If you read Albert Pierrepoint’s autobiography, you’d realise that none of this is true. (AP himself was not a fan of capital punishment but saw it as his duty to dispatch his victims quickly, with dignity and without distress.)
    There was no drum roll, last cigarette, or remorseful speech from the scaffold. These are pure Hollywood.
    The elapsed time bertween the executioner and his assistant entering the condemned man’s cell and the trapdoor opening was typically under 10 seconds.
    Pierrepoint’s objections, as I remember the book, stemmed from the fact that too many misfits and social inadequates were executed.

  157. 157
    Anonymous says:

    The opinion poll in the link adds up to 101%.

    Even if 50% support capital punishment and those polls are only taken straight after high profile child murders anyway it doesn’t matter, it would only count if 100% supported it. Individual fundamental human rights do not exist at the will of the majority, 50%+1 does not have the right to deprive the other 50% -1 of their rights.

  158. 158
    Mr and Mrs 'Satisfied' from essex says:

    your logic is not flawed at all…the emotive nature of retribution is a natural reaction given some of the heinous things people do.
    Capital punishment is too quick.

  159. 159
    albacore says:

    Can any idealist tell me why it is immoral to execute a murderer but perfectly justifiable to abort unborn foetuses in their millions?
    Just asking.

  160. 160
    Anonymous says:

    “capital punishment for child and cop killers.”

    In what way is killing a cop worse than killing my gran, Guido?

    With your ill thought-out statement implying that driving a car into a bent copper is somehow worse than cutting off an innocent old lady’s head with a machete, you’re demonstrating precisely the reason why mob justice is a shit idea.

    I don’t want to live in your mob-rule world thanks very much; we had a taster of that with the student “demonstrations” and it fucking stinks, so you can shove it up your arse.

    Justice, yes please.

    Mob-rule, no thank you; I don’t want a world where chav-law is king.

  161. 161
    Quantrill says:

    Will the birth be announced as ” a baby to Mr & Mr Elton John”?

  162. 162
    Mr and Mrs 'Satisfied' from essex says:

    you make us chuckle Anon …do you take tablets for the schizophrenia ?

  163. 163
    Not in my name says:

    And, if a hanged person is subsequently found innocent?

  164. 164
    British Citizen says:

    Can we start with Doctors who cannot pick up on a child’s broken bones being struck off?
    Then onto the social workers who did not give a damn so long as their “supervisors” praised them for having files stored neatly.

  165. 165
    Jingouk says:

    Surely that is correct.

    Another change has been to the ethnicity of society in England. A reservoir of disrespect to political and organisational institutions has built up and is being easily exploited by all types of activists.

    The once peaceful society that we could more-or-less take for granted that most of us lived in daily has given way to fear and suspicion.

    The colourful political rosettes of any colour are now understood to simply be different flights on the same establishment dart leading the majority in a direction is does not want to go.

    The prognosis is not good if it all carries on as it is. Bringing back the death penaly will be a step in the right direction. Inducing comas in long-term prisoners should also be considered.

  166. 166
    Mr and Mrs 'Satisfied' from essex says:

    well someone needs to sort the problem out

  167. 167
    ddd says:

    I doubt the per capit murder rate has increased since hanging was abolished. Can’t be arsed to look for the number myself, but would tell you if hanging acted as a deterrant or not (as you infer).

  168. 168
    British Citizen says:

    The £45 million Holyrood “thing” which turned into a £450 million spend was a bribe for support to get the numbers of Scottish MPs reduced because they were out of line with the population. northern Ireland also has too many MPs :-0

  169. 169
    The Watcher says:

    No Mike it is either. I thought it was referenda but a smarter than average bear taught me different.

    The word plebiscite comes from the Latin plebiscita, which originally meant a decree of the Concilium Plebis, the popular assembly of the Roman Republic. Referendums and referenda are both commonly used as plurals of referendum. However, the use of referenda is deprecated by the Oxford English Dictionary, which advises that:
    “ Referendums is logically preferable as a plural form meaning ballots on one issue (as a Latin gerund, referendum has no plural). The Latin plural gerundive referenda, meaning things to be referred, necessarily connotes a plurality of issues.

  170. 170
    Anonymous says:

    “Half of adults in Britain would be in favour of restoring the death penalty for cases of murder”

    Yes, but I’d guess that more than half the adults in Britain would also like the UK government to give everyone here 5 million dollars each so that they could emigrate to barbados and never have to work again, and just leave all the orphans behind in the uk being looked after by a handful of government nannies, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

    The majority is not always right, as was proved with crystal clarity by Brown/Labour being in power for 13 years whilst destroying the country at every opportunity and pissing all over the people that put their lives on the line to defend us.

    Perhaps if our education system was better then that survey would show something like 15% in favour of capital punishment, but after 13 years of labour destroying all semblence of free/intelligent thought in our schools we’re now left with a general public that’s mostly even more stupid than they were 13 years ago.

  171. 171
    Donkeyscrump says:

    The public were sold a pup when they abolished capital punishment though.
    Life in prison was the deal,not letting c*nts out after 10 years or less.
    Now the innocent have to get CRB checks so the guilty can remain anonymous and ‘Move on’ from their crimes.
    Les Miserables in reverse.

  172. 172
    Gordon Brown (Still Prime Minister) says:

    I fully support turning them into bananas in Dr. Alphonse Mephisto’s labs

  173. 173
    Anonymous says:

    Collateral damage.

  174. 174
    Gordon Brown (Still Prime Minister) says:

    I fully support Wagner and wish him well in the final where he will obtain my vote

  175. 175
    Posh Tory says:

    The state has no business executing its citizens.

    I would far rather that child killers be thrown into a deep dark dungeon and forgotten about.

  176. 176
    Gordon Brown (Still Prime Minister) says:

    I will look into financing the next launch in the new year. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

  177. 177
    Sally B (who likes big boys) says:

    He knows where to find Sally Bercow if this is true

  178. 178
    Fedupwithpoliticians says:

    ……………………so can we also get a vote on the EU and immigration??

  179. 179
    between a cock and a hard place says:

    Er….so when is this gonna happen anytime soon with this bunch of matildas in? FFS.

  180. 180
    Demon says:

    Well, you’d be wrong – it’s more than doubled.

    Ref

    http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf

    page 15

  181. 181
  182. 182
    simple minds says:

    It doesn’t take much to please you does it Billy?

  183. 183
    Someone else says:

    What’s a “cop killer”?
    I would wholeheartedly cheer anyone who “terminated” the sum membership of ACPO Ltd. They would deserve a medal, not hanging.

    You sound like you’re well in the pockets of the chosen ones, Dweebo.

  184. 184
    AC1 says:

    The purpose of business is to make profits for shareholders and provide a customer-valued service, not let itself be parasited upon by the state.

  185. 185
    Dave says:

    Well, er, you see, my good friend nick and I feel that we need to be part of the EU, because of all the benefits for the UK, like, er, um, giving the EU billions of pounds a year in contributions.

  186. 186
    Donkeyscrump says:

    The EU and Immigration will ensure you don’t get a vote on Capital Punishment.
    The EU are against it and because of immigration a disproportionate amount of those hung would be…immigrants.
    Game over.
    Life meaning life is a more realistic goal to aim for.

  187. 187
    Wet Ken says:

    Ah yes b b b ut you see capital punishment is bbbarbaric which is why we, er, ahem, protest a little bit when women are stoned to death for adultery in other countries. And life sentences, well, life is a long time, financialy speaking. We cannot possibly afford to keep a criminal in prison for 25, or 30 years. So, we think 8 or 9 years – with good behaviour – is about right. With colour TVs, gym, and regular life skills workshops, of course.

  188. 188
    smoggie says:

    They used a spunk mixture (pray don’t ask how they did it) and the fastest swimmer is the dad.

    Incidentally, if the surrogate mum has not produced, would there have been any come back, I wonder?

  189. 189
    Vigilante says:

    The way the present system is, many people will be taking the law into their own hands. The state is too soft on crime and the criminals have more rights than the victims. People will get sick of it and will look to the private sector for justice. I imagine the company an Eye for an Eye will take off in the next decade. People and communities will be hiring hitmen/vigilantes to target criminals both inside and outside prison. Is there a pedo in your community? Give S/peedo monitors a call 0895 123. The peedos will be monitored 24/7 for a small cost to the community. Satisfaction guaranteed and peace of mind.

  190. 190
    idiot bastards says:

    Politicians of all hues and their compliant media mates are now one in saying that nothing can be done about immigration from the EU……..because it is immigration from the EU. Fuck that, fuck that 10 times fucking over.

  191. 191
    Sungei Patani says:

    The death penalty is also very cost effective. It costs the taxpayer a fortune to keep a prisoner in jail for life.

  192. 192
    ST says:

    This………

    “your logic is not flawed at all…the emotive nature of retribution is a natural reaction given some of the heinous things people do.
    Capital punishment is too quick”

    ……..is disgusting, even though I would understand the impulse in the victim’s family.

    If the state is going to kill someone it should not demean itself by replicating murder, the death should be as far from murder as possible. Not that I would support the death penalty even on those terms.

  193. 193
    Cassandrina says:

    Of course there should be crimes that get the ultimate death penalty.
    Guido will certainly not be in a minority if these crimes were carefully selected and obvious to the vast majority of the UK in deserving death – which would be only a few prescripted crimes.
    Many serious murderers are released from prison early and the public not even aware of them, until they murder or commit serious crimes again.
    Also as a non-smoker I would sign the petition for a % of pubs to be registered as smoking establishments, so long as this was clearly shown at the entrance.

  194. 194
    Sungei Patani says:

    I suspect that a Petition to Legalise Fox Hunting would be one of the first to be debated quickly followed by one to make it illegal again!

  195. 195
    mark mcfarland says:

    After numerous milestones in exposing government corruption, GF is now espousing hanging and government retribution. Guido has just lost another reader. Guido needs to start educating himself on what liberty really means because today Guido looks like yet another grubby conservative posing as a liberal. Goodbye. There are real liberals out there – and I don’t mean social democrats – who really do believe in freedom. Guido is just a pretender.

  196. 196
    Ratsniffer says:

    It cannot be long before the term “immigration” when refering to EU immigrants is banned. Which will mean governments will not be allowed to collect statistics, as incomers will no longer be regarded as “immigrants”, just EU “residents”. Don’t fucking laugh, it’ll happen, I’m telling you.

  197. 197
    Cassandrina says:

    Amen

  198. 198
    ST says:

    +1

    Well said.

    The other worrying thing about that proposal is that it implies degrees of guilt. In other words one person is guilty enough of murder to go to prison whereas another is extremely guilty of murder and should hang.

    Although, I must admit I do find myself aware of my own hypocrisy surrounding this issue as I am not a pacifist nor do I have a particular problem with the intelligence services bumping the occasional nutter off, which of course is state execution without the trial…

  199. 199
    Waste of Oxygen says:

    Bye.

  200. 200
    Anonymous says:

    I think we already know who the “Vichy” types are don’t we?

  201. 201
    on the offensive says:

    Sheesh, what a sensitve little flower you are. BTW, fuck off.

  202. 202
    ST says:

    Why gang rapists is particular? Why not just rapists?

  203. 203
    Ratsniffer says:

    One reason for ths softness on crime is, of course, that liberal, wet lawmakers and politicians are totaly insulated from crime because of the way they live. 1/ they are wealthy, so they can choose a location with low crime rates. You don’t see many home secretaries living on an inner city sink estate. 2/ they have armed cops looking after them. Try to break into their houses and you will die from lead poisoning. 3/They mostly move in liberal circles, with lots of handwringing middle class guilt over poor unfortunate criminals – it’s not their fault – it’s our fault for being wealthy and tempting them to steal from us by having lots of consumer goods.

  204. 204
    It'sAlreadyTooLate says:

    ePetitions the bastard son of Spending Challenge. remember? http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/spend_spendingchallenge.htm. More smoke and mirrors from the ConDems, let the masses think they have a say in government.

  205. 205
    Ratsniffer says:

    Whatever you think of Guido’s idea at least he’s opened a forum where these views can be aired. I – like many members of the public – get sick and tired of certain issues being deemed “non subjects” by our politicians. Immigration was one of them…with labour simply pretending the subject didn’t exist, until Gordon broon was confronted by a “bigot” who gave him what for. If discussion is closed down by leftie PC zealots and politician, you simply drive it underground, into the hands of extremists.

  206. 206
    wattana says:

    capital punishment for cop killers? cops, what makes these assholes lives any more important than anyone else`s

  207. 207
    killthemockingbird, please. says:

    …but is it not the case that police-people are responsible for causing more civilians’ deaths than terrorists and ‘regular-type’ killers in the average year?
    What to do about that?
    Are they not already licensed to kill?

  208. 208
    ddd says:

    great source thanks.

  209. 209
  210. 210
    c.eng says:

    The answer is incorporated in your last sentence.

  211. 211
    You're a twat says:

    If it’s about deterrece, then:

    (i) I presume you believe that all crime is bad
    (ii) If all crime is bad, people should be deterred from committing it
    (iii) Use capital punishment as a way to punish all offenders, from speeding upwards

    That way, if your theory of deterrence is correct, we will live in a crime-free society. I’d suggest starting with nob-head drink-drivers.

    And if the point of capital punishment was deterrence, no-one would ever be killed in places where it’s used. Which is why the homicide rate in the US is 0. Oh wait…

  212. 212
    It'sAlreadyTooLate says:

    Regarding “South Wales coal fields which was primarily for running steam engines”, just the type of coal needed to run our Coal Fired Power Stations.

  213. 213
    Anonymous says:

    Doesn’t make things better for the executed, but it keeps politicians in the limelight & by jingo, it sells newspapers!

  214. 214
    9p87bjkm9jml, says:

    I hope it’s you Anonymous.

  215. 215
    Dack Blog says:

    Nope, not in favour of capital punishment. I would, however, be in favour of ‘life’ meaning ‘life’ – and not a cushy life either. And asset-stripping (if any) towards the cost of upkeep.

  216. 216
    Curious says:

    Assuming that the death penalty is unacceptable for all of the reasons – given by those against – and a “life”sentence is the alternative, what constitutes a life sentence?

  217. 217
    Dack Blog says:

    Plus this ‘consultation’ gimmick makes me sick. It’s just PR bullshit. If you can’t do the job you were voted in for just fuck off you tosser.

  218. 218
    fuck them all says:

    Hear hear!

  219. 219
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    Interestingly the grand architect of the EU constitution – Valery Giscard d’Estaing – was the last French president to sign off a guillotining in the late 1970’s.

    Of course if your European attitude is “correct” this sort of behaviour does not make you persona non grata.

  220. 220
    Shaun the Sheep says:

    Look out for 10 to 15p on a litre of fuel within a month, 30%+ on power bills next year, and England to win the Ashes.
    Happy New Year!

  221. 221
    Anonymous says:

    I remember the miners strike well – and specifically a friend who fell under the malign influence of the SWP during/as a result of it.

    AIR the spark that started the thing was a proposal to remove (8m tons of?) deep level output. The SWP were indoctrinated to rant about TOTAL output losses exceeding this figure (after a few months), so it was all Thatcher’s fault, thereafter if not beforehand. This belief is surprisingly widely held, even now.

  222. 222
    Polly Toynbee says:

    If you give a man a life sentence without parole, what is to stop him killing again? Why wouldn’t he not try to murder every warder? After all, you’re not going to hang him, so he might just as well take his revenge on society.

  223. 223
    Anonymous says:

    Russia? AND (some) private citizens there can employ their own ex-Alpha group to protect themselves/air out the opposition?

  224. 224
    whippet owner says:

    Always wondered what Maggie had on Scargill.Start a fight you know is lost,refuse a ballot,destroy the NUM.The hoon was a sleeper.

  225. 225
    tory boys never grow up says:

    Just for once Old Holborn is right on something – if libertarianism is to mean anything at all surely it must mean that the one individual liberty that cannot be taken away by the state is the right to life; if that can be violated any other individual liberties are surely fair game. But then again Guido was never a libertarian – the contras never cared very much for their victims’ liberty did they.

    And don’t use Latin phrases if you don’t know what they mean – the welfare of the people can still be looked after by locking away child and cop murderers.

  226. 226
    c.eng says:

    Life should be life, as in ‘until they die’. However as this is worse than Death a new sentencing term is required, like 20, 30 or 40 years.

    Using the term ‘life sentence’ in the UK has become just a pap for the populace who are too stupid to realise it usually means less than 10 years, but then all our gaol sentences are lies in that whatever is stated is actually halved.

    Similar to devaluation of the currency and educational qualifications, all this suits politicians as it makes them look good whilst the plebs are too dim to realise what’s going on.

  227. 227
    steerpike says:

    Dear….marmite…yes but what if they are WRONGLY CONVICTED….we all want tough law and order, we all want to keep these Guardian reading weirdo nudists away from our kids, but the point is that you or me or anyone else could be wrongly convicted of a crime.
    Believe me, I’ve recently been on jury service, and the whole thing was a shambles. The judge was an idiot, the barristers were half pissed, the jury didn’t care.
    You would be executing 4 innocent people for every 6 guilty ones – is that a good idea? What if it was one of your relatives?

  228. 228
    Anonymous says:

    And if there is more innocents slain in the street than ever would be hung by mistake ?

  229. 229
    Nick2 says:

    @Cato –

    There is no middle way and ‘a far day’s pay for a fair day’s work’ is nonsense.

    disagree, as

    1) “The Boss”‘ job is to maximise output whilst minimising cost inputs – one of which is labour. He could do that by hiring demotivated minimum wagers or by agreeing a wage rate that encourages productivity.
    2) “My Job” is not to do as LITTLE work as possible for the money, but to do the BEST work that I can. If “The Boss” won’t adequately reward me, then I’ll move jobs or become self employed.
    3) Despite the cloying embrace of the benefit/welfare state, millions of UK citizens choose to work for a living. Why? To earn more than JSA, to update their life skills, to gain the satisfaction/pleasure of practising their profession/vocation.

  230. 230
    True Libertarian says:

    And you call yourself a Libertarian? Law against the individual by mass-petition is mob rule and not libertarianism – you sound more like a proto-Fascist. Very disappointed in you – launch this petition and you will lose many readers, although I’m sure the nutters who read the Mail will make up for it.

    And by the way – correlation is not causation. Linking the end of hanging with an increase in homicides is pretty simplistic when there are so many other confounding factors.

  231. 231
    Anonymous says:

    So u would rather live in a country where hundreds are murdered each year than one in which runs a small possibility of such a miscarriage?

  232. 232
    steerpike says:

    Well, exactly. It would all get very awkward indeed, wouldn’t it?

    By the way, I believe it was five times through the head and once through the shoulder – they misfired that last one in all the boyish excitement.

  233. 233
    Anonymous says:

    The miscarriage there was that both should have hung and not just one of them.

  234. 234
    Nick2 says:

    Make ‘em work – hard – for their food. It worked for East German political prisoners – although the MFI flat-packs they produced were execrable.

    Nevertheless – no free rides. Prison work or (self imposed) starvation. It’d certainly reduce prisoner/Prison officer tension if the con had to work 11 hours a day 6.5 days a week – they’d just want to sleep once off shift.

  235. 235
    Anonymous says:

    Old holborn I thought you were fucking off to same paradise island where you were creating some self sufficient utopia you mad old fucker !

  236. 236
    Anonymous says:

    Wimmins’ bodies are sakred.

  237. 237
    Sally B (who likes big boys) says:

    Jeremy you cann have me any time you want!

  238. 238
    Lil Olmey says:

    O/T, but as twittered above :

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/28/protests-tax-havens

    (Yes, this really is in the Grauniad.)

  239. 239
    Anonymous says:

    Guido. Sometimes what the proles want isn’t what’s best for society. Call me an elitist, but we all know it.

  240. 240
    True Libertarian says:

    Because the first is a sentient, self-aware human being to which the concept of innocence and human rights can be meaningfully applied.

  241. 241
  242. 242
    Nick2 says:

    +1

    But either ALL the people have the right to at least propose legislation or the political class make all of our (important) decisions for us. There is no middle ground where “MPs have the delegated authority to think/decide for us on topics x/y/z”. Either we control them or they control us.

    The problem with NuLab was that they bribed voters with (predominantly) other voters’ money. This discussion is about capital punishment – yeraverage welfare recipient probably doesn’t care a shit what THEY cost the rest of us, let alone what a specific ‘peedo’ publicised by the red-tops costs a year to keep locked up.

    IMO, if Osborne’s OFB actually prevents naked bribery of voters with deficit budgets, the welfare underclass probably won’t even be aware of most epetitions.

  243. 243
    Engineer says:

    If it can be produced at a cost similar to or less than imported coal. Unfortunately, it wasn’t.

    Indigenous coal reserves also tend to be high in sulphur, imported coals much less so. Consequently, pollution problems (eg ‘acid rain’) are less if imported coals are burnt in power stations.

  244. 244
  245. 245
    Anonymous says:

    Writing as someone who’s recently moved & their new MP doesn’t even have an email address/contact phone number (or constituency office apparently!), epetitions are a good idea. Unless of course their MP doesn’t have an email address/phone number/constituency office…

  246. 246
    evenin' all says:

    there have been about 1000 deaths of civilians in/around/caused by the police in recent years. No policeman has ever been arrested/ to court/charged

    the police in the UK in 2010 are totally unaccountable and can kill anybody in cold blood

  247. 247
    Anonymous says:

    Agree re no capital punishment & ‘life meaning life’. But not expropriation by the state – that could be incentive enough to imprison innocent/wealthy/’enemies of the state’.

    In any event, aren’t prisoners only allowed to spend money inside that they have earned/been given inside?

  248. 248
  249. 249
    Cynical Old Man says:

    Mike, Plod had to wear more protection as violent protest grew throughout the 1980’s. Remember seeing coppers standing in lines like Aunt Sallies wearing nothing but a cork tit helmet and blue serge uniform while being petrol bombed and pelted with bricks during Brixton and Toxteth riots? Remember the copper who had his throat slashed after being bottled on the Grunwick picket line?

    As violent protest became more endemic the more plod’s uniform became more paramilitary. It’s a sign of the times we live in.

    I think the way the police behave reflects the kind of society we live in.

  250. 250
    Anonymous says:

    Ever seen “Cool Hand Luke”? Build a ‘hole’ for seriously difficult prisoners in every gaol. Apparently some US prisons still have them – as a hacker sent to gaol in a fairly recent docco was automatically sent to ‘the hole’ for the first 3 days of his sentence to educate him as to what disobedience would inevitably entail – and from memory ‘The Hole’ was a shed covered in 3 feet of snow…

  251. 251
    AC1 says:

    Read up on Georgism and Ricardos Law of Rent.

    The economy is run for the rent-seekers, not for the citizens.

  252. 252
    AC1 says:

    Do all that ANYWAY, and then have a vote on Capital Punishment.

  253. 253
    Someone else says:

    I wouldn’t give the state a mandate to kill someone.
    But then I also wouldn’t give the ultimate yay or nay on whether this goes ahead to someone with divided loyalties like Bercow.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12084525

  254. 254
    Nick2 says:

    What a surprise – the Grauniad has discovered the concept of Juche…

    The Juche Idea, also called Chuch’e (Korean pronunciation: [tɕutɕʰe] approximately “joo-che”) is the official state ideology of North Korea (Democratic People’s Republic of Korea). It teaches that “man is the master of everything and decides everything,” and that the Korean people are the masters of Korea’s revolution. Juche is a component of North Korea’s political system.[citation needed] Juche literally means “main body” or “subject”; it has also been translated in North Korean sources as “independent stand” and the “spirit of self-reliance”. Juche cannot be completely translated into foreign languages. Its best translation would be ‘always putting Korean things first.’[1]

    Hysterically, the Graun says

    On a conservative estimate, a third of the world’s wealth is held offshore.

    Where can he mean – the Moon?

  255. 255
    AC1 says:

    Only if NOTA made the losing candidates ineligible to stand at the next election.

  256. 256
    Eeu to me says:

    On the other hand, what the politicians force on us proles is certainly not the best for society,call me Eeu most don’t know it.

  257. 257
    Someone else says:

    Because it pisses of sandal wearing religious freaks.

  258. 258
    Raving Loon says:

    Guido, if the majority of the people advocated abolishing the freedom of speech, torture and a controlled press would you support their implementation. Majority rule is just mob rule/tyranny of the majority. Democracy is just 51% of the people trampling on the rights of the remaining 49%.

  259. 259
    Gordon Brown says:

    What I suggest for suicide terrorists is that all the bits are scraped up and fed to pigs which, if I understand the process correctly, prevents the, now unclean, bastards from going to heaven and collecting their 70 virgins -

  260. 260
    Gordon Brown says:

    Today I will be a Pig

  261. 261
    AC1 says:

    MPs are people.

  262. 262
    Postlethwaite says:

    Well let’s see what Hendon teaches them
    – to chant ‘i feered for my life’ – that’s why they get off with everything
    – to be an expert driver – allowed to kill pedestrians on zebra crossings
    – marksmen – to shoot anyone they (dis)like

    Then chief of the Met will argue they should never go in front of a court to justify their actions (another B Lair . . . )
    Judges agree ‘feered for their life’ justifies absolutely anything

    So Guido is advocating the status quo. That is one ‘rule’ for one section of society and another ‘law’ for the rest of us.

  263. 263
    Say no to pinkos says:

    Like Hayek pointed out on his magnum opus on Socialism, Libertarians like himself and you are too weak willed to stop the march to fascism and let it happen every damn time.

  264. 264
    Lil Olmey says:

    All the more for you – but what would you do with them ?

  265. 265
    Anonymous says:

    Please include killer cops with the cop killers.

    Tony

  266. 266
    Dack Blog says:

    An ex of a friend got a short-ish sentence for growing dope (2nd offence). No taxed income in over a decade. Lived a comfortable life, bought a house in London, flash car, holidays etc – all on the proceeds one assumes. But muggins here is paying taxes to keep him in food and shelter till he comes out to take up where he left off. Something sticks in the craw on that one.

  267. 267
    HenryV says:

    Can we just bring back birching first?

  268. 268
    Anonymous says:

    smoogs

  269. 269
    ^peado^ says:

    you can be alot worse

  270. 270
    Great Service says:

    Cop Killers should be given a medal imo

  271. 271
    13eastie says:

    Not really!

    A cliche, yes, but my point was really to offer a glimpse into what we might suppose Guido’s fantasy would be re. capital punishment…

    Perhaps I yielded to melodrama, but Guido’s arguments in favour of the death penalty are untenable – you could choose any alongside the “moral high ground” tone of my previous two posts. (I also suspect I’m right in believing Guido has seen the Saddam hanging clip and not much else).

    Guido’s “ultimate deterrent” appears to have no empirical deterrent effect, anywhere, whatsoever – Guido’s is a triumph of macho rhetoric over evidence.

    I haven’t read Pierrepoint’s book – perhaps I should, and perhaps Guido should too – but it seems that he understood very well that most homicides are uncontrolled “crimes of passion” that no so-called “deterrent” would prevent.

    I suspect he recognised also [“misfits and social inadequates”] that many of his customers were mentally unwell. Diminished responsibility continues (rightly) to be a defence to a charge of murder.

    Oversimplification is a charge readily borne by the Daily Mail et al, but it doesn’t really do simply to resort, at the first instance, to the lowest common denominator if you profess to be a legislator.

    The types of killings that are animating Guido are (mercifully) very rare, and not at all simple to bracket. They form a tiny proportion of the total burden of criminal or unlawful killings. They have a direct effect on only a handful of unfortunate people and really do not warrant the trial by mob to which Guido aspires.

    Which child killers should we string up? Feisty pensioner “owns” teenage mugger? 17-year-old stabs 15-year-old? 10-year-old kid kills 2-year-old infant? Step-father shakes screaming baby to death? Predatory paedophile unintentionally kills kidnapee? Drink-driver does hit and run on husband, wife and kids?

    And the law-enforcers?

    Plain clothes officer tracked down and shot? Adulterous female PC knocked about by husband? Trigger-happy traffic officer? Traffic warden? PCSO? Lollipop lady?

    Guido knows how to persuade a jury on this? And without creating a new “hate crime”?

    Guido knows the argument that will convince a jury that the criminal line can be fairly drawn between the value of one killing and another?

    Because if he doesn’t, he would succeed only in lessening the conviction rate for one of the most serious offences in the land.

    Guido’s pontifical views on this matter do seem also to be at odds with the catechism. Translations and interpretations of the ten commandments abound, but it is the teachings of the Church of Rome that proscribe most explicitly the act of killing per se rather than murder in other traditions.

    Instead of showing how well it might work (e.g. secession from the EU), Guido has made ePetitions look like mob lunacy.

  272. 272
    Kev says:

    Exactly. Fucking terrifying ain’t it? Time to move from UK, or I’ll end up doing time if one of those Allah bothering Hunts insists my 4 year old twin Daughters wears a Burka. Either that or hang every one of the 646 appeasing bastards in Westminster for bending over backwards for the fuckers. How much foreign aid do we send to Pakistan to fund it’s nuke programme/siphon off to Taliban to make IED’s????

  273. 273
    Conversation between Sarah Beard and one of her sons says:

    “Mummy, who’s that scary smelly man who sometimes comes with us when all the people with the big flashy things are outside?”

    “Those big flashy things are called cameras and the scary smelly man pays me money for us to stand next to him. We need that money so we can buy nice things and fly to nice places. It’s ok, mummy has saved up enough so we won’t have to do it for much longer. I’m going to get something called a quickie divorce next year and then we’ll never have to see the scary smelly man again.”

  274. 274
    A ? says:

    The penalty for treason against the EU is death. Always was and always will be. Keep up monkeys. You were told that years ago. Even Blue shirts, know that. Right Paddy ?

  275. 275
    Someone please smack Ed Balls says:

    You’re about to be spit roasted by John Prescott and Eric Pickles.

  276. 276
    Red Ed says:

    So why don’t you just emigrate to the states David?

  277. 277
    Anonymous says:

    And Guido shows the shallowness of his libertarianism yet again.

    Supporting authority when it suites him – why cop killers? What’s special about the state’s hired thugs? Why should we bow before the enforcers of the regime?
    Cops are not there for us, they’re there for the rulers. Of course, Guido has always wanted to be part of the ruling corporate class, happy to accept forcing people to behave how he thinks they should through the barrel of the gun.

    And instead of running to the state to ask it to kill people, why not try and change society? Rather than seek to hand the state explicit power of life or death why not try to remove its power of the lives of the many?

    No wonder right-libertarianism is rejected by so many when its loudest ‘proponent’ appears as a Tory troll who happens to like drugs.

  278. 278
    Mike (England) says:

    fox hunting
    eucd
    the eu
    islamists
    corporal punishment in schools

    all fine things to ban but what about labour getting one million people to sign an epetition that there should be an election (followed rapidly by liberal, bnp, ukp and tory petitions to outlaw the labour party), then we have the possibility that as with postal votes certain “communities” will easily be able to put a million signatures on an epetition to introduce sharia law or how about banning all relgions, how many could the cult of scientology get to get themselves registered as a religion?

    these epetitions are not about the things many people want but are about minorities getting together, because of that its dangerous, the only way this could ever be a valid runner would be if it required around 51% of the population to sign anything before it progressed, tats the only way the politicians would really get to know the will of the people.

  279. 279
    elephant never forgets says:

    then there is support for extending the penalties for those who kill whilst driving. do you include / exclude those and with / without any mitigating circumstances

    and so on at infinitum and we then eventually get back to the “punishment not fitting the crime” to misquote Gillbert & Sullivan

  280. 280
    Handycock says:

    I am totally against capital punishment for anything to do with, interfering with, abusing or murdering children. There is always the possibility, that someone like me, who always has the best interests of the many children I have dealt with, at heart, being wrongly accused. In the ensuing emotional hiatus and public opprobium, even the Freemasons, might then not be able to save me. Jabulon.

  281. 281

    Mod seems quite strict here… is there certain phrases likely to cause it?

  282. 282
    albacore says:

    Cat cack.
    How about the other end of the scale, then.
    Why should the state cosset and protect all murderers from the fate visited upon their victims and yet turn a blind eye to the starvation to death by its own “flagship” organ? of thousands of old, sick citizens?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336988/3-000-patients-starved-death-hospital-Labour.html

  283. 283
    13eastie says:

    Іndееd.

    Вut thе tеrmіnоlоgy uѕеd (thе рареr іdеntіfіеѕ іn а fоrеnѕіс wаy murdеr, mаnѕlаughtеr, аnd іnfаntісіdе) ѕuggеѕt thаt thеѕе ѕtаtѕ аrе bаѕеd оn соnvісtіоn rаtеѕ.

    Тhіѕ іѕ асtuаlly аn аrgumеnt thаt murdеrеrѕ gеt оff whеn jurіеѕ fеаr thе dеаth реnаlty wіll bе іmроѕеd.

    Тhе соnvісtіоn rаtе оnly rеасhеd іtѕ mіnіmum аftеr thе hаngіng оf Ruth Еllіѕ (whо ѕhоt а lоvеr аftеr hе’d рunсhеd hіѕ unbоrn сhіld оut оf hеr) аnd thеn сlіmbеd аftеr thе іntrоduсtіоn оf Ноmісіdе Асt 1957 whісh rеѕtrісtеd thе uѕе оf thе dеаth реnаlty.

    І’М ЅURЕ GUІDО KNОWЅ АLL ОF ТНІЅ!

  284. 284
    smoggie says:

    Why just rapists? Why not persons who refuse to wear condoms?

  285. 285
    on the offensive says:

    You can fuck off too freeloader.

  286. 286
    smoggie says:

    Like you’re Brain of Britain. I agree with Bill. I was listening to them on 5 live this morning, people living their lives; unlike colourless little ol you.

  287. 287
    smoggie says:

    Probably binned with the rest of the unintelligible shite.

  288. 288
    smoggie says:

    Do they get to wear camo?

  289. 289
    turston says:

    Guido you missed adding that tosser who killed his landlady with an axe who wants priosoners to have the vote. He should be first with his head in the noose.

  290. 290
    AC1 says:

    What do you have against pigs?

  291. 291
    smoggie says:

    Few, too few, were accidentally hanged at the assizes.

  292. 292
    LabourNutter says:

    I think that one thing to bear in mind is (alas) that eventually Labour will get into power again. Do you really want the death penalty on the statute books if that happens – particularly given the explosion of new politically-correct criminal offences written into law under their last tenure?

    Bad idea.

  293. 293
    smoggie says:

    Surely locking someone up is taking away an individual’s liberty. You have a right to freedom as well as life.

    You don’t explain why it is ok to take away someone’s freedom but not his life.

  294. 294
    Gordon Brown says:

    Also having sex with a Goat still attracts the ultimate penalty

  295. 295
    nell says:

    I rather suspect she’s waiting to see if he gets that well remunerated job as head of the IMF, that he’s been angling after, before she takes that course.

  296. 296
    albacore says:

    The very same sandal-wearing freaks who would defend to the death (yeah, right) the right of the murderer to a full life?

  297. 297
    True Libertarian says:

    I would take up arms to stop it – and you?

  298. 298
    True Libertarian says:

    Yes, I agree that is an example of hypocrisy by the state which should not let anybody starve to death.

  299. 299
    Anonymous says:

    A lot of people who support capital punishment are certified idiots and Guido, your beginning to sound a bit like a 1930s Tory. This blog has gone a bit Animal Farm..

  300. 300
    albacore says:

    Come, come. How can you, as a libertarian, deny the right of anyone voluntarily to starve himself to death?
    It can be a powerful political weapon.

  301. 301
    Handycunt says:

    Gimme a chance princess. I can make u happy.

  302. 302
    Willsteed says:

    Six months on and the government still haven’t made any spending cuts. In fact November borrowing was a record. RIP UK.

  303. 303
    Someone else says:

    Taxin’ slaves and stealin’ cotton…

  304. 304
  305. 305
    Cromwell says:

    When any of you holier than thou sanctimonious bleeding heart socialist fuckwits suffers the horror of having one of your children or your sister or brother or any other family member murdered by some lowlife scum and you want to forgive him/her/it, feel free, until then shut the fuck up, the only people who have an opinion on this matter are those grieving families who suffer for the rest of their lives, personally i would make it my god given right to find the fucker and i would skin the bastard alive and make it last a long fucking time.

  306. 306
    Tony Blair the child killer, George Bush the child Killer, let's string em up Guido! says:

    I think Guido is bang on the money with this campaign to string up child killers.

    We should start with hanging those who have murdered the most children, the American cowards hiding in rooms in Nevada dropping bombs on and murdering Afghan children.

    Right, all we have to do is extradite the motherfuckers and we can start the hangings, eh Guido?

  307. 307
    Mercian says:

    If we are supposed to live in a democracy this is a logical step.
    The process should go:
    1) Get the death penalty back
    2) Declare war crimes to be worth the death penalty
    3) Put Blair on trial for war crimes

  308. 308
    You can see through them all says:

    But its not going to make a blind bit of difference. You dont seriously believe that any politician would contemplate giving the voters any real say in anything?

    They are not proposing to bring in Swiss or Californian style referenda. If that was the big idea I’d grab it with both hands. They want all your heat and rage directed at a petition where the end result is a draft bill that the existing 650 timeservers decide to throw out on its first reading. Its a waste of everyone’s time. It will not result in any measure being passed.

    What we need is Swiss style referenda. But there is more chance of global warming being true than that ever happening here.

  309. 309
    Guido is using children to score political points fucking scumbag says:

    Guido’s campaign won’t get off the ground as it would be overruled by the European Courts.

    End of story.

    Note to Guido: stop living in la la land you Tory nutter.

  310. 310
    using the murder of children to score political points is what scumbags do says:

    You really have hit a new low with this post you fucking scumbag.

  311. 311
    Eeu to me says:

    Get over it,not all people think the way you think on the capital punishment subject.

  312. 312
    Tom Baldwin says:

    Quote from Guido Fawkes
    “Guido will put all the resources at his command ”

    Be honest , you ain’t got no resources.

    See you on the campaign trail at Oldham East & Saddleworth

  313. 313
    Poor Bill says:

    Read the history of the abolishion of salvery.

    Stupid. Then think about democray in a British and not Euro-filth way.

  314. 314
    Poor Bill says:

    You mean like in the old days ? When we had unarmed police and child killers lived in fear. Not children.

    Marxist monkey. Fuck off

  315. 315
    Anonymous says:

    Bercow is a twat and so is his wife.

  316. 316
    Poor Bill says:

    However you are right, all SHOULD be equal. In the eyes of the Law. At all times.

    I use to teach the ROE to those who needed to know it.

    If you can not justify killing someone, on the street outside your own home, you can not do so in the A’Stan.

    We are all subject to the common law. Where ever we are.

    The Queen is a christian. It is her peace and law we up-hold.

    Until…….whenever and whoever………

    For now. Stick to what we know works

  317. 317
    TATS MUM says:

    TAT Come and play with mummies rude bits
    and calm down !

  318. 318
    The shame of Labour says:

    I reckon labour accusing the government of deliberately killing babes has to be the lowest that UK politics has ever reached.

  319. 319
    Straight kind of guy says:

    ePetition to stop pooves having surrogate kids. NOW, please.

  320. 320
    Straight kind of guy says:

    You aren’t a Scotch person are you?

  321. 321
  322. 322
    Susie says:

    £10k per year, per turbine, paid out of our taxes. And that’s before the ROCs, and carbon credits which we pay for via our bills.

    Yesterday the entire on and offshore wind output was just 1.5% of the total UK demand.

  323. 323
    pissed off voter says:

    In theory, the case for capital punishment is sound; in practice, it is flawes – it is dependent upon a perfect system of justice, Currentgly, our justice system from policing through to sentencing owes more to political expedience than it does to right and wrong. CPS is a glaring example.

    Personally I’d be much more inclined to support our exit from the EU and the corresponding removal of a very expensive layer of bureaucracy that does more harm than good.

  324. 324
    Mr and Mrs 'Satisfied' from essex says:

    well ST if it were your family who were killed you might not find the suggestion so unpalatable…whats truly disgusting is someone deliberately
    targeting innocent people to perpetuate particular goals others might not agree with and the severest sanction being to put them in jail. This is not mickey mouse telly ST this is the world we are living in.

  325. 325
    David Vance says:

    Forensic evidence is only as good as the staff. It is not infallible proof as CSI is thought to suggest.

  326. 326
    David Vance says:

    More important is where the front is warm

  327. 327
    Fred Goodwin says:

    Big business is not an enemy of the people. It generates Bonuses from gullible taxpayers who bail it out.

  328. 328
    From the Message Boards says:

    If anyone turns this site into a Private Eye parody I swear I’ll do time!!

  329. 329
    Goose Sauce says:

    And if the child was killed by a dr**nk dr*v**er ?

    Bit too close to home, eh Fawker ?

  330. 330
    David Vance says:

    MPS are stupid as well

  331. 331
    what death penalty ? says:

  332. 332
    Brown Stalker says:

    “Mummy, who’s that scary smelly man who sometimes comes with us when all the people with the big flashy things are outside?”

    “That’s no man, it’s nell. She squats in our bins sniffing Sarah’s used tampons”

  333. 333
    soft on crime, soft on the causes of crime says:

  334. 334
    Cromwell says:

    He has more resources than you because it’s his blog you are spouting your shite on you silly fucker, hundreds of thousands of people read this every week, and yours is where?

  335. 335
    Ars Gratia Artis says:

    “[C]apital punishment will be[…] fair […], when […] individuals have […] [the] right [to the use of deadly force for self protection] that they can then delegate to “The State.””

  336. 336
    Cromwell says:

    What a vile coarse reptile you are.

  337. 337
    ST says:

    If that state disapproves of murder it should not be killing people in a way which simulates the murder.

    The point about me feeling differently had I lost a relative to murder is a rather obvious and tired one. Of course I would feel different, but it wouldn’t give my opinion any more worth, in fact it somewhat compromises it.

  338. 338
    ST says:

    Precisely, it’s not necessary to kill a person who has been caught, tried and convicted. By all means lock them up for life, but you can’t let the wrongly convicted out of the grave.

  339. 339

    Has anbody heard that DM is to be offered ambassador to the states? I wonder if he will accept it….

  340. 340
    Cynical Old Man says:

    The shelving of anti-flu jabs for under fives has proved to be a Labour lie. There’s never been a policy of immunising the under fives against flu – it was only introduced as an emergency measure during the swine flu epidemic that never was.

    As is usual with Labour their spin doctors have created a “coalition policy” which they can denounce. Anyone care to knock down a straw man?

  341. 341
    ST says:

    Exactly, as Friedman said “I’m not really interested in democracy, I’m interested in freedom”.

    What if 51% of the population wants the other 49% shot?

    Not that I’m opposed to the idea of e-petitions directing Parliamentary debate (provided it’s a proper debate and not mob rule), but Guido’s views are inconsistent with his self proclaimed libertarian values.

  342. 342
    ST says:

    Right, so you would only allow people who have been directly affected by an issue to make decisions on it.

    Also, unless you want to go down the China route I’ll be part funding the death penalty so you can knack off I’ve every right to an opinion. In addition I happen to live under English justice, so again fuck off, I have a right to my opinion as to how it should be administered.

    It’s not just bleeding heart socialists who are opposed. I’m certainly not one, in fact I believe socialism would eventually kill those who go against their ‘greater good’.

    My opposition isn’t anything to do with forgiveness, the sanctity of life or any other value judgement. It’s simply that:

    1. Eventually you will kill someone who is innocent

    2. I don’t trust the state to decide what should and should not constitute being put to death.

  343. 343
  344. 344
    Anonymous says:

    How can a little country like the Czech Republic produce more shaggable female MPs than Britain has in its entire history?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/czechrepublic/7885809/Female-Czech-MPs-pose-for-calendar.html

  345. 345
    filipinomonkey says:

    Mike, the scandal with Kisko was that the police KNEW he was innocent as he was impotent but the murderer wasn’t. But this is what happens when there is pressure to get a conviction. Targets changing the role of the police from catching the bad guy to getting a conviction, sadly not always the same thing.

    In fact there was no evidence that connected him to the murder (not surprising as he didn’t do it) yet he was still convicted.

    But maybe, just maybe, if there had been a death penalty the police might have had second thoughts at hiding the proof of innocence?

  346. 346
    Anonymous says:

    Agreed. But who would be the executioner?

  347. 347
    albacore says:

    And what of the innocents who would still be alive had their killers been executed for their earlier murders?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7147662/Killers-freed-to-kill-again.html

  348. 348
    Anonymous says:

    If he has identifiable assets the Assets Recovery Agency (or whatever replaced it) will try to seize them. HMRC will also try to tax him on his (HMRC estimated) profits.

    If those two can’t recover anything, then HM Prison Service is unlikely to harvest much towards the convict’s upkeep.

  349. 349
    Anonymous says:

    guido. really? sarah palin is on your side

  350. 350
    Anonymous says:

    That’s an argument for longer incarceration, not state sanctioned execution. Whole of life sentence = public safety. Legalised killing = carte blanche for A future government to make anything punishable by death.

    IMO a principle is involved.

  351. 351
    Anonymous says:

    Very good way for the ConDems to lock the fire exits before Red Ed burns Labour’s big tent down…

  352. 352
    albacore says:

    Take another look at the last line in that article:
    “Three killed again while still in prison.”

  353. 353
    Matthew Palmer says:

    I have persistently supported the Death Penalty and have spoken at the top table at a number of debates on this issue however Blair handed this power over to Europe and no matter if we want it back we cant.

  354. 354
    D L George says:

    Sorry, late, I’m up in two hours, couldn’t read through all the comments so apologies if these points have been mentioned but I have to get some kip.

    First off, there’s far too many self interest groups with plenty of influence to get the laws changed.

    Hate big oil?, bring in green think tanks
    Hate green issues? Bring in big oil
    Hate porn? Bring in US churches

    All these groups and 100’s more are having it away with the UK Gov right now and have been for years. Once these groups start astroturfing for our yes/no votes they’re going to get them in spades.

    This will get dirty, fast.

    Night all.

  355. 355
    potty says:

    The state shouldn’t be murdering its citizens

    The state should see that life means life & that like their victim families they & their families should not be able to meet or directly communicate ever again. NO TV only eat, sleep & shit for EVER

  356. 356
    Hugh ffishingly-Whittlingstool says:

    A syllogism!

  357. 357
    Chris Huhne says:

    Good Morning

    Elton John was changing the nappy on his new son and he turned to his husband and said,
    “He reminds me so much of you David”.
    David says “Why, is it his cheeky little smile?”.
    “No” says Elton.
    David asks “Is it his cute little nose?”
    “No, it’s not that” says Elton.
    David says “Then it must be the colour of his eyes”.
    “No” says Elton “He’s got shit on his dick”.

  358. 358
    Nick Clegg says:

    Three hundred and fifty first

  359. 359
    GetDownShep says:

    What staff! Forensic science is being closed down.

  360. 360

    Good, coz Guido is on her side.

  361. 361

    How does wanting to defend life, liberty and property with lethal force contradict libertarian values?

  362. 362
    Jay says:

    Guido – your campaign is absolutely pathetic. It’s one thing to call for more direct democracy but capital punishment?!
    Apart from moral objections, ample research that shows that it does not work – what about miscarriages of justice? Just collateral damage, is it? Ever seen “The Thin Blue Line” or heard about the West Memphis Three?

    But the most important thing: Capital punishment won’t return in the UK or elsewhere in Europe, Guido. It ain’t going to happen. Get real.

  363. 363
    Anonymous says:

    Unusual position for a ‘pro-lifer’, ie catholicism-informed blogger. Shouldn’t you be demonstrating about the sanctity of life outside cemeteries?

  364. 364
    That'll teach the yanks says:

    Or if Dave reallywants to get his own back on Obama… we could see Gordon as Ambassador to replace Sir Nigel Sheinwald when he retires early in 2011…that should finally kill off the “Special Relationship”…and imagine Obama having to listen to monologues from Gordon every 5 minutes on how he saved the world just when he thought he’d seen the last of the “Scottish Loon”

  365. 365
    Anonymous says:

    I hope you would also support the death sentence for killer cops (including the ones that direct other cops to kill innocent members of the public in error) Guido?

    And I’m surprised that you support the death penalty at all – after all, surely for a killer ‘their reckoning will be eternal’ like the kiddyfiddler priests whose non-punishment you don’t seem to give a shit about?

  366. 366
    NannyState says:

    The Government will find any way to make us part with our money. As long as they haven’t got to pay out.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12085506

  367. 367
    Gold Remembers says:

    The British public would also vote for increased spending on ever aspect of public life and the slashing of taxes.

  368. 368
    David Wilkinson says:

    Old Holborn. Everything the state does should be done in the name of the people. So NO! don’t read my emails. YES! do execute killers if that is what the people want. I disagree with you also Guido. Why just kid and cop killers? My life is just as important.

  369. 369
    Anonymous says:

    Didn’t Dave promise to remove them?

  370. 370
    Hugh ffishingly-Whittlingstool says:

    I see your problem: you’re missing an /i

  371. 371
    Lil Olmey says:

    One thing that the ballot box has going for it is anonymity.
    OK, so I have to identify myself in some way but my ballot paper (as far as I know) is anonymous. If I should choose to vote for some bunch of nutters like, say, Labour then I could do so without fear of retribution.
    But how can that anonymity be preserved on-line ? It seems fair enough that I should have to identify myself as a legitimate voter but how could I know that I haven’t put myself on some list to be targetted later ? I mean, would you trust the people who run these things ?

  372. 372
    Kevin T says:

    All for executing paedos but do we have to hang them? It’s awfully quick and boring. Can’t we come up with something more imaginative and entertaining to watch? I liked Gary Oldman’s plan for feeding Anthony Hopkins feet first to wild pigs in Hannibal, using medical technology to keep him conscious and aware. I suppose the animal rights lobby would moan though.

  373. 373
    Alfiebengal says:

    Totally agree, Guido you should pick your targets with more care. What about the numerous miscarriages of justice that can be corrected to some extent if the wrongly convicted person is still alive? Or are you going to campaign to bring back the dead as well……

  374. 374
    Barry says:

    The voters

  375. 375
    g1lgam3sh says:

    Exactly

  376. 376
    Lil Olmey says:

    If they were writing the screenplay for Dr Strangelove today it would include a Sarah Palin character. Heaven help us if she ever reaches the White House – humanity’s days will be numbered.

  377. 377
    Anonymous says:

    Add in the savings on prison spaces and costs – plus the deterrent effect on immgration (expecially among those we want least – who can’t be sent back because they committed terrorist offences that would get them executed in the country/culture of their birth).

    P.S. Add in hung, drawn and quartered for bombers (like Guido) and public executions at Wembley, TV rights for auction – proceeds for the victims of crime. I love a truly progressive (as in Poll Tax TV and National Lottery) criminal policy.

  378. 378
    rattattat says:

    Bullshit,bullshit,bullshit! If anyone thinks the prats in parliament will take one blind bit of notice of a petition, think again!
    I’m afraid that we are being governed by amatures who haven’t got a clue and are morally bankrupt.
    We might have something that is advertised as democracy, but in reality it is far from it. If it were immigration would be under control; Europe would be brought to heel; the ECHR would be curtailed to do what it was intended to do – stop toture, death and destruction, get rid of convicted fellons back to where they came; people would be expected to show responsibility as well as enjoy rights; and we should preserve our culture and fuck those who want to come here and import theirs!- if they don’t like it then they can piss off

  379. 379
    Anonymous says:

    Child killers and cop killers. I’m sure the child killer aspect can be agreed on in most cases. Why are you adding in the police to the list of the sacrosanct? You may as well add “really nice vicars” and “sweet old ladies”. You really are quite a weirdo, Guido.

  380. 380
    Postlethwaite says:

    So 25 percent of the public electing the unelectable conservatives (for example) is not good enough either . . . ?

  381. 381
    stilyagi_air_corps says:

    Dead innocent fetus = good!
    Dead guilty killer of post-fetus = Ba-a-a-aaad!

    With a moral compass like that, I’d suggest switching to GPS.

  382. 382
    Sir Cum Spect says:

    Your Electoral Roll number is put on the stub of the voting slip, both of which carry the same serial number. Your voting preference can therefore, theoretically, be identified.

  383. 383
    Anonymous says:

    “i would skin the bastard alive and make it last a long fucking time”

    If I saw him do the crime, then so would I.

    If I didn’t see him doing it then I’d always wonder if the police had fitted up the wrong person, or if the person was pretending they did it because they’re mental.

    Therein lies the problem; if you see the crime with your own eyes, then you personally can be 100% sure you’ve got the right man. If not, then it’s almost impossible to be sure you’ve got the right man.

    I’m reminded of the various Saw films here, where there’s also the potential problem that someone’s pulling out your fingernails, but the person doing the pulling has a gun to his head that you can’t see and a person telling him that if he doesn’t pull out your fingernails then he’ll get shot in the head.

    If I saw someone performing a hideous crime on my (other people’s) kids then he’d never survive long enough to get to court.
    If I didn’t see them performing that crime then I’d go down the normal justice route.
    However, the normal justice route should mean incarceration for a very long time with no perks and in a basic cell, it shouldn’t mean being given a nice room with a telly for 5 years and then being allowed to go home.

  384. 384
    Anonymous says:

    (I don’t differentiate between my kids and other people’s kids here; if I saw someone doing a horrific crime on a little kid, I wouldn’t be able to help myself; rage/adrenalin would kick in and i’d pound the fucker to a pulp)

  385. 385
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    What the fuck are you on Guido? Thought you were a Libertarian? Nice popular stuff of course, but i didnt realise this organ was a subsiduary of The Sun.

    Anyway. IMHO. Child killers should get whole life sentences.

    Cop Killers though? What about cops who kill citizens?

  386. 386
    Penfold says:

    Well done Guido, go for it.

    Also, bring back hanging for treason and terrorism.

    There will be no chance on earth of such an event happening as we are ruled by Brussels and the EuroFascists would never allow it to happen.

    Equally our MP’s would have a crisis of conscience and would against such a measure.

    What is really wanted is a motion to bring in the Swiss option, of having referenda on contentitious issues allowing the people to decide rather than wishy-washy, corrupt, self-seeking politicians.

  387. 387
    Mr and Mrs 'Satisfied' from essex says:

    very old joke…still not funny

  388. 388
    Paul Marks says:

    I agree with Guido’s general point about ePetitions.

    Although a return to capital punishment was not the first thing that came to mind (that was getting out of the E.U.).

    On capital punishment and the United States……

    Well California in theory has capital punishment – but it is so rare (and it takes so long – and yes, liberal weakling that I am, I do think that years rotting on death row is unnacceptable) that has no real effect one way or the other.

    No one thinks “if I take a life – my own life is going to be taken” because being executed in California is less likely than being hit by lightning.

    In Texas things are different – the death penality is more common and the whole process takes a much less long period of time (although the old ways of “trial in the moring – hanged in the afternoon” are long gone).

    “And Texas is a more violent place than Britain Paul” – it was when capital punishment was the norm here (and millions of people in Britain owned firearms – murder in Britain then was actually less common than it is now).

    In fact the gap between Texas levels of violence and British levels has shrunk over the years.

  389. 389
    potty says:

    yes but only if the threat is immeadiate AND its to save life

  390. 390
    PJHutton says:

    And if after due process a Guilty verdict leads to death of the Accused; but then new evidence leads to the conviction being quashed and an innocent or not proven verdict declared, how do we go about bringing the deceased back?

  391. 391
    uk Fred says:

    stilyagi_air_corps

    +1

  392. 392
    uk Fred says:

    Oh dear, Guido.

    I thought you meant that we should be punishing capitally those police who kill innocent bystanders, like that those who lose control of their cars when pusuing twockers and the like.

  393. 393
    bdbcks says:

    i agree that child killers should be capitally punished but the realm of child killing should extend to members of parliament who vote for wars that see children being killed. if m of p want to ensure no children get killed in wars they vote for then perhaps they themselves should do the physical fighting.

    as for capital punishment for cop killers again i agree. though again i’d extend it members of parliament, for voting and perpetuating certain laws that have ravaged over the generations and thus created and maintained a society where police officers have to strap stab-proof vests on each and every time they go out to do their job.

  394. 394
    uk Fred says:

    What about all political representatives who overclaim or attempt to overclaim any expenses or allowances being required to repay 10x the overclaim within 28 days of the discovery of the overclaim. Perhaps it will encourage them to be a bit more careful in the future, especially if it is introduced with a 30 years retrospective clause.

  395. 395
    uk Fred says:

    For those who have no care for the life and limb of anyone else, ie those totally without thought for anyone else, the threat of capital punishment may cause some thought for the other people affected by their actions.

  396. 396
    Old dog no tricks says:

    there is not ample evidence that capital punishment doesn’t work ! Ther is ample propaganda – that is all ! Most of the evidence shows that it does work as a deterrant ! there are always those who think they will not get caught committing crimes – but the answer to that is a non political police force and the abandonment of PC ideas within the judiciary.

    The left likes to pretend that crime is falling by redefining crime.
    It also likes to pretend that crime figures do not increase when you treat law breakers with compassion.

    All the evidence points in the opposite direction ! Its just that leftie leaning people to not like to accept the evidence which might change their point of view !

    I know this is fact as an ex leftie and anti capital punishment wally who studied the evidence ! I didn’t like my ideals being shattered one bit – but an open mind is just that !

    But lefties cannot exist with an open mind ! They believe what they are told to believe and watch the BBC news every day without fail at least 3 times to reassure themselves of their own conviction.

    Idiots all !

  397. 397
    Dick Robinson says:

    I support this, but not until after we get a vote to leave the EU.

  398. 398
    Old dog no tricks says:

    As you well know – you cannot bring back the innocent dead ! But you can ensure a system of justice whereby majority jury decisions preclude the death penalty (unanimous guilty verdicts only allow capital punishment) therefore allowing reasonable doubt to prevent death sentences. It is by no means certain that there will be no innocents executed even then – but the number of innocents killed by those being released justifies the sanction ! More innocents are killed and injured by repeat offenders than would ever be likely killed by state executions utilising a robust judicial system and a criminal detection system which made the chances of being caught more likely than not.

    The current system favours the criminal and upon release (after an irresponsibly lax sentence) has had the effect of making the murder option one which is another ‘acceptable risk’ to prevent detection. Until this risk is annihilated as acceptable to the criminal (murderous) mind – then violent crime will only increase.

    Of course – increasing crime suits governments who then get to justify their existance by doing something ! Usually increasing THEIR power over US ! This is a tenet which needs to be realised – and the reason why governments WILL do nothing REAL about crime ! It is their own lust for more power (and wealth usually) which drives the useless solutions to crime and the airy fairy lefty (they are ill – not bad) type of thinking.

  399. 399
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Agreed – it is the usual smoke and mirrors !

    At best – most it will be used for is to show the head honsho’s what they need to divert public attention from !

    At worst – it will be used as propaganda to show how the ‘extreme right’ is gaining infuence and must be ridiculed, suppressed or made illegal – to save ourselves from ourselves !

    I guess it may also pretend to the public that the politicians are ‘listening’ when really they are only doing what they want ! I am sure that no MP’s will be called to account when they vote against an issue which has majority support in their constuency.

    A better new idea would be to have monthly online ‘performance’ votes for every MP who can be recalled if they fall below 50% popularity within their constituencies – it would focus their minds a bit more locally than on their careers up the greasy pole !

    The two combined might have a reasonable chance of changing things for the better !

    My dream tonight – an e-petition demanding our extraction from the EU ! A vote in parliament – against ! 600 MP’s recalled for not doing their constituents bidding !
    3 weeks later – a new E-petition demanding our extraction from the EU ! Oh happy day !

  400. 400
    You dropped a tag. says:

    Fixed, with a bit of luck.

  401. 401
    Old dog no tricks says:

    This is not totally correct !

    Within the Lisbon treaty capital punishment was reintroduced – for the crime of treason against the EU !

  402. 402
    damn. says:

    Apparently not….

  403. 403
    Old dog no tricks says:

    We could at least have a verdict which allows the death penalty ! Then lock them up for life – meaning bucket kicking time for release !

    Any government who decided that the prisons were overcrowded (and there was no money for more to be built) would then have the option of realeasing THESE criminals early without foisting them onto the rest of us knowing that they are going to be back sooner or later !

    As with economic policy – current governments are too quick to kick the can further down the road – at OUR expense !

  404. 404
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    Bullshit Zorro. Neither are infallible.

    That aside, there is no fucking way I would trust the state as it is now with such a sanction.

  405. 405
    Anonymous says:

    What a great way for interested parties to get Sharia law on the statute.

  406. 406
    Old dog no tricks says:

    elected LOCAL judges might be a good idea – the ability to sack those who repeatedly let down the public would soon get the ‘special trained’ *ankers off the circuit !

  407. 407
    Old dog no tricks says:

    No they should be ignored as they cannot be bothered to make any effort once there is a NOTA choice ! To expect anything from a (real – not our so called) democratic system – you have to put something into it !

  408. 408
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Agreed – if they are not good enough first time – then they should not get to stand in the same election again ! Have another try next time round would be OK because they would have time to at least partially shape their thoughts to those of the electorate – gives them time to research their subjects !

  409. 409
    Old dog no tricks says:

    Agrred to a point – but it has become pretty much standard wear now. the police seem distant from the general populace. they are also made to enforce laws which the people had no wish to become laws. Sadly (and I am not anti police) they have become the enforcement arm of the political class.

    Now if they would all just refuse to provide VIP protection – we would see them in a different light !

    On the subject – police cuts ! I have yet to hear of any police fifedom annoucing the withdrawal of their ‘company’ cars to assist in the budget cuts – but ‘short staffed civilian’ front line services are being cut hugely – cover to be provided by ‘beat men’ ! Nice to know that your 999 calls will still get answered – by the police who would normally get to attend the scene !

  410. 410
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    Yes.

  411. 411
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    NB. Capital punishment does not stop murder so it’s an invalid question anyway.

  412. 412
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    Police in-house forensics and privately contracted companies. Absolutely no chance whatsoever of any dodginess there at all. No conflicts of interest. None.

  413. 413
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    WTF are you talking about anonymous 111? Yeah people care but noone I know of is capable of raising the dead. Many also complain about light sentences. So by your logic we should all be foaming-at-the-mouth Daily Mail reading retards calling for lethal revenge to be considered as caring for the victims?

    Go shake your head mate.

  414. 414
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    sycophantic, even.

  415. 415
    scootaboy says:

    What worries me is how the media and civil rights lawyers could manipulate things if capital punishment where brought back. You could have someone who is guilty, but gets off when the hand wringing brigade get going.
    This I fear is what would happen.

  416. 416
    Old dog no tricks says:

    The USA is in the majority a very moral country.

    You condmn the people because the leaders have done things of which you do not approve. Yet these very same leaders have done over there what has been done over here ! Do you hate the UK for the same reasons ? Dumbed down the populace, fed them ‘bread and circuses’ so they have not got a clue which way is up !

    Like this country – most people believe what they see on the BBC and the fiction of Auntie Beeb is fed to the masses ! The USA has its corresponding mainstream propagandists !

    It is sadly true that the majority of bloggers who reject the mass media are the few people left in this country who can think for themselves, have the patience to research their subjects and offer their opinions for discussion. The USA is the same as the UK – the upset being the Tea party at the moment but even they are being partially hijacked by ‘leaders’ like Palin who are part of the problem !

    Sure in the USA mistakes are made in the justice system – but at least they ensure that anyone dropped for life ain’t going to get a second chance ! In the UK they get 3rd 4th 5th chances and that is if they ever get a 1st chance at being locked up ! In the UK we are soft touches when it comes to criminal justice. When being caught breaking the law is seen as a slight hazzard to ones chosen way of life, then the system is not working. When a couple can torture and murder an innocent child to death and not fear the penalties, when the penalties at worst will see them out again in 15 years time – living the same state subsidised lifestyle they had before going inside ! Where is the justice ? Are you really worried that those horrible killers of a child might have swung ? There IS a chance they did not do it – not a high one – but in the end – they should have been dangling from a rope for what they did ! I’d even have given them a year of appeals to think about the coming punishment and contemplate the feeling of their falling into oblivion !

    I do not like the idea of innocents falling foul of the justice system – but also I do not like the idea of innocents falling foul of the murderous sadistic criminals – who are prepared to kill – as in – take someone elses life away – for a mobile phone or for their own entertainment or because they are different in some way or even because they are alone ! The distress ever after to those who lose someone dear to them in these appalling circumstances. The never forgetting and the ever praying that it was just a bad dream ! Who speaks for them – certainly not the justice system as it stands ! The Hangman would !

    Nobody likes miscarriages of justice – but in a robust criminal justice system (which we do not have) – the wrong person swinging would be extremely unlikely – especially taking into account the modern practices available to the detection industry (which would have to be highly accountable for their evidence) compared to when we used to operate the gallows ! It should be possible for a jury to VETO the death penalty in a written explanation. It should be possible for a judge to VETO ‘immediate’ execution of sentence if he has concerns about evidence, testamoney etc. The safety net could be vast – yet still the option could remain.

    Some murderers deserve the long drop – of that I have no doubt ! That it be an option therefore – is to me – indisputable !

  417. 417
    Old dog no tricks says:

    The point is that SOME people deserve to swing and it is not an available option. There is no disputing that the current CJS is a shambles – but with a rigourous system with all possible protections added – it should be an option for the profoundly guilty.

    I would not bet that no-one would have dropped a single tear (except maybe their mothers) if Fred West and his appauling wife Rosemary were still swinging from the end of a rope ! Some might say that Fred West would have welcomed it and that it would have let him off too easily – I say that this may be the case – but if it deters a single other person in the slightest manner then what does it matter to society if he preferred this option.

    That some people deserve to swing for their most horrendous crimes cannot really be disputed. Therefore (in a robust CJS – not a lax and corrupt one as at present) the option should be available.

  418. 418
    Old dog no tricks says:

    However – one has to remember the ‘Bonfire of the Quango’s’ damp squib.
    ‘The Great repeal Bill’ – which refused to repeal any of the laws that the public wanted repealed ! So has now withered on the vine !

    So now – with great fanfare we would like to announce (TAAAHHHDAAAHHHH……..) ‘A Great E-Petitions Bill” – where only the bills that the government wants (popular support for) will be allowed to be debated (No doubt Ken Clark will get the veto on this system cuz any conservative already hates his guts anyway !). Which is none – as the Government is only interesting in doing what IT wants and doesn’t give a Sh*te about what the public wants !

    Look – Camerons idea of more democracy and accountability for and to the public is F*CK OFF YOU CNUTS !!!

    How about an e-petition banning politicians from saying any words on camera (in answer to a question) other than yes or no ! (Saying Cameron is an EU loving marxist pillock would still be allowed as an alternative !)

  419. 419
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12088871

    6 months?? FFS, some rapist and burglars get less. And Guido wants to give these spastic Judges the right to decide life and death. Fuck off.

  420. 420
    Just Sayin' Like... says:

    6 months?? FFS, some r@pists and burglars get less. And Guido wants to give these spastic Judges the right to decide life and death. Fuck off

  421. 421

    We Jock’s already have E-petitions for Holyrood and a bloody good idea it is – in reality it means they can just ignore us even more obnoxiously!

  422. 422
    Living with the real people in NW3 says:

    That anyone, including the state, can kill another is just wrong.

    Death is too good for these people. Locked up for life receiving casual beatings and dealing with the mental torture inflicted by your fellow inmates is far worse than death.

    The mob always wants to string em up… but I bet you couldn’t pull the lever Guido?

    Allowing the state to take away your life because the mob says so flies in the face of your generally sound libertarian views.

    Rule by the demos is not necessarily a good thing. Totalitarianism is usually the result.

    Following the wishes of the people led us into the mess we are in at the moment. Ever since the demos realised that it could keep voting itself larger amounts of the nations’ wealth the county has been struggling.

    We live in a representative democracy for good reason. Most people want more money spent on public services but less taxation!

    Unpalatable as it may be, the death penalty demeans us all as human beings.

  423. 423
    goto100 says:

    Fawkes

    You’re not a libertarian. You’re a doctrinaire, social conservative. You betrayed yourself with your declarations of support for the McCain/Caribou Barbie ticket in Sherman land 2 years ago. Your libertarian schtick just doesn’t fit at all with many of the views you espouse. It’s all bollocks. Just like this ludicrous campaign.

    Shame really.

  424. 424
    Ivor Tapeworm says:

    Should gun-runners be executed too? Just wondering….

  425. 425
    Anonymous says:

    Yes – freedom under the rule of law, dickhead.

  426. 426
    Doggin Joanna Yeates says:

    Capital punishment wont happen because everybody knows the police are corrupt filth who plant evidence and beat confessions out of mental cases, and all the forensic scientists are lying bent rag-heads with 3rd class degrees from one of the toilet universities.

    90% of people in prison are innocent and all the scum in parliament are guilty.

  427. 427
    The Cooke Report says:

    So what is to stop the X Factor Generation voting Dozens of times?

  428. 428
    max says:

    Well some proper representative justice would be:

    Step 1 – law that says future majority votes by the people become law. Simples.

    Step 2 – buy pocorn, get comfortable and try not to let sides split laughing as we rapidly get…

    – re-introduction of capital punishment for all murders
    – public de-bollocking of paedoes
    – halving of number of MPs and their pay
    – immediate withdrawal from EU
    – aircraft for aircraft carriers
    – an end to all state aid to third world countries
    – no more windmills (or only windmills?)
    – sharia law for all muslims
    – repeal of the hunting ban (and then a ban, then a repeal…)
    – an end to all immigration
    – tax rates of 100% for all incomes above about 50 grand a year
    – destruction of every speed camera
    – an effective recall law for every MP
    – government constrained to spend only what it raises in taxes in a given year (or the unlimited printing of money?)…

    Oh, the list is endless. And beware what you wish for…

  429. 429
    mcintosh says:

    My father was a detective in Glasgow. Founding member of their flying squad. He made Gene Hunt look like a girl. Dead against hanging. We all make mistakes at work. Just think how you’d feel if you got someone convicted and later discovered it was wrong.

    Easy for Guido to be harsh and tough

    MPs should not follow public opinion slavishly – they should lead

  430. 430
    Anonymous says:

    Anyone remember Stefan Kisko?!

    Perhaps you should Guido

  431. 431
    Harry Roberts says:

    I’m your friend! I’m your friend! I’m your friend!

  432. 432
    Blind albino monk says:

    Remember, my son, the Church’s position against capital punishment…

  433. 433

    Even if we don’t win the vote on the floor of the House, we shall at least see which MPs believe salus populi suprema est lex.

    Really?

    I’m sorry to say this, Master Fawkes, but I rather suspect you have been over indulging on the Christmas Sherry if you truly believe that one.

    Remember the promises made about the Great Reform Bill? The ones about how the public’s voice would be heard? What happened when one of the most popular demands was for the reform or repeal of the smoking ban in pubs? Why, that nice, liberal democrat, Mr Clegg, went on record to say that it would never happen; certain things would never be put forward for reform no matter how popular they might be.

    I was in the First XV so didn’t do Latin at school, but I do remember this from Stinker Watson’s efforts to bash some French into my head: plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

  434. 434
    rpg says:

    Really disappointed. I enjoy the blog, I even agree with a lot of the views you express – but how does the (good) idea of small government coincide with the idea of government killing its own citizens. Torture is wrong, execution is wrong – it’s simple.


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Alan Milburn says Labour’s scaremongering campaign for an unreformed NHS will not win election…

“It would be a fatal mistake, in my view, for Labour to go into this election looking as though it is the party that would better resource the National Health Service but not necessarily put its foot to the floor when it comes to reforming. Look, reforms are not easy, but the Labour Party is not a conservative party. It should be about moving things forward not preserving them in aspic. You have got a pale imitation actually of the 1992 general election campaign, and maybe it will have the same outcome. I don’t know.”


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