Guido did a talking head spot with Will Straw last night on BBC News arguing about tuition fees. The twitter-ignorati (yes you Johann Hari) got pretty upset about it because Guido personalised the issue. The comparison made was between Will Straw and Guido’s younger brother, who is about the same age as Will. He left school at 16 to work as an apprentice mechanic paying taxes which supported Will Straw going to Oxford University. Is that fair?
Osborne Gets His Soundbite | Nick Robinson
Moonbat V Chomsky | Charles Crawford
Beecroft is “S**t” | LibDem MP
News of the World Trailed Watson’s Mistaken Mistress | Indy
Shabana Mahmood MP Saves Brum Market | ITV News
Plan a Velvet Divorce for the €uro | Gideon Rachman
Truth About Romney’s Bain “Vampire Capitalism” | Wall Street Journal
Clegg’s Revenge | Nick Wood
Cleaning Out Stables | Biased BBC
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Norman Tebbit has a humble brag:
“We Maastricht rebels were derided and abused for opposing the single currency by the wise, clever, Guardianista soft centre left establishment from whom we now hear so little on the matter.”
Mr Bryant and Mr Watson managing to make the whole hacking affair look like a farce – the more they moan the less I care about the whole subject! So partisan it beggars belief at all costs. They cannot rise above it ! If I was to call the PM a ‘liar’ I would want to be VERY sure.
It’s our right to smash windows, trash buildings, attack cars, and throw fire extinguishers and bricks! Now give us free money! I’m off to watch Jeremy Kyle.
Definitely entitled to the free money. Its my human rights, innit.
Quite right!
The poor should be happy to pay for my Wisteria chimney expenses so we can triple tuition fees on these privileged wastrels.
We should never give in to ruffiians and oiks who don’t know their place and can’t even smash a place up without a rousing chorus of the Eton boating song.
You are missing the point
Would that point have anything to do with Nick Griffin?
Listen Sambo, I will not pay taxes so that a bunch of stupid brain-dead moron kids can go to uni and continue to do fuck all. The kids protesting would know an education if it blared at them through their ipods.
You are right: this is about the rich pulling up the drawbridge. However you are also completely hypocritical: Labour introduced, then tripled, tuition fees, not the Tories, and I remember no demos like this at the time.
Guido is wrong having fallen for the smokescreen (“an apprentice mechanic paying taxes which supported Will Straw going to Oxford”). This is actually about increasing direct tax by the back door. Graduates already paid more tax because they earn more, plus if they are ‘lucky’ enough at a higher rate.
I will support increased (even to cost) tuition fees if there was a reduction in income tax, and not before.
Where did he say he supported Labour?
There were demos, but none of them were violent. There was at least two student marches I could remember (2002/3) where there were 20,000 students marching through London.
This about the British Taxpayer pulling up the draw bridge.
Its about time the “professional students” sponsored by Labour and the Left Wing got it through their thick heads that there are “NO FREE LUNCHES”.
Someone pays for their easy lives taking degrees that don’t produce any thing. Why do we need 50% of young people going to University?
There will only ever be enough room in the L’iabour party to accomodate a few Student Union Presidents.
All the other student demonstrators are fodder for the main activists.
tell me greychatter, how did you get your degree then? I don’t think anyone is asking for a free lunch but no doubt you are an expert at getting one
Fucking Bollocks.
Anyway, Hi Gang
(<My punchable face). I'd like you to imagine a world where Mark Oaten became a successful party leader and had a statue to commemorate him; (you can probably see where I'm going with this) would people …
Statistically, Will will go on to earn more at a higher tax rate that Guido’s brother and pay back his education that way – and pay for state support for Guido’s brother that Guido’s bother’s tax payments may not justify.
“There is no free lunch” Apart for bankers that is
Bankers bust out in the casino financial system, they get to keep the billions in bonuses awarded on fake spreadsheet profits.
Meanwhile the real losses get socialised onto the taxpayer, who are already paying the price for the boom via devaluing assets they are still on the hook for at pre-bust prices.
All you reactionaries who regularly post here, many who I would guess are 40+. When you went to Uni it was a TOTAL free lunch, many of you were able to do several degrees. You were the REAL ‘professional’ students.
You have the cheek to criticise young people for lack of education! What do you expect from the ‘fast food’ ‘one-size-fits-all culture’ of today’s education system?
These protests arent just about tuition fees, but about the wider social impact of the financial crisis. Most young people are out of work, what jobs are available (McDonalds) offer no real prospects for advancement.
Will Straw would have gone to Oxford even if it was 100% fees, stop building the straw man Guido. REAL poor people will be the ones affected by this, not fake middle class lefties.
The ‘Xbox Generation’ are out there standing against all the things you closet dissidents have been bitching about for years, I expect things will get worse.
Sincere political activists should be educating these youngsters about who their real enemies are, rather than the cut-out politicians or the high street bankers.
Of course that’s never been the purpose of this blog, just tittle tattle from the Westminster goldfish bowl.
Good on you Guido, left scholl at 14/ 1962 to pay taxes for these liblabcon bastards. Had to pay for my son and daughter to go to uni do not want anything from the state exept to left alone. and keep my own money, income tax is on earnings is out and out robbery by the state. ask Nathen Rothchiles, “the red shield basterd”
The student in the picture is Charlie Gilmour, son of the Pink Floyd guitarist Dave Gilmour.
What you do when your dad is worth some £80 million, eh?
I do not believe his subsequent claims in the press that he did not realise he was defiling the cenotaph. What the hell does he think he was doing swingin on a union flag. He should be prosecuted and sent to a serious period of imprisonment as punishment and as a deterant.
It is quite clear that his millionaire father can afford his full tuition fees, so there is no possible principled element to mitigate this behaviour.
Send this fucking twat down.
Of course his father has never ‘avoided’ tax either i suppose
Gilmour is a second-year Girton student studying History.
Which tells you all you need to know about the lapse in academic standards of a once-great university, namely, Cambridge and the ignorant riff-raff it accepts to study for a history degree… “didn’t know it was the Cenotaph” — LIAR!
BTW the local Cambridge newsgroup is eerily silent tonight — too ashamed of themselves.
BUT IT’S NOT FAAAAAAAAAAIIIIR!
Why should I pay for your pension, health care, etc?
You should pay for my expenses and second home because I say so.
Peasants, KNOW YOUR PLACE!
You shouldn’t.
Why should you?
Straight over their heads. LOL!
7 pounds a month, when you have a decent job, most of these little pricks will spend 70 pounds in the bar tonight.
I thought the repayments, starting only after a graduate’s income passes 21K would be 70 pounds per month. Not just seven. They would never ever repay their loan on that.
Even at 70 quid, that is generous. I wish my mortgage was so generous. I would only be repaying 70 quid a month now, instead of hundreds!
It’s £7/month.
If I borrowed £6k a year for three years and paid at £7/month it would take over 214 years to repay – without interest.
5yo … hundreds of years is probably the case for someone earning just over £21k.
It would be more interesting to know how much people earning at say £21k, £25k or £30k.
Some graduates will never earn enough to start repayments as the limit will go up each year with inflation and also 60% of graduates will never pay off their loans and will have it written off after 25 years under the old scheme and 30years under the new anyway.Of course if you go abroad the HMRCS find it impossible to collect repayments anyway even in the EU and rely on you telling them when and if you return so the whole shebang is unworkable and pointless. It’s all smoke and mirrors
you should have worked harder and paid it off by now
yes too fuckin right the lazy bastards don’t want to work-just want spoon fed and shaggin and me to pay for it.
If we withdrew our troops from Afghanistan & left the EU ENGLISH students would have no need to pay tuition fees AFTER they graduate & are earning over 21K per annum.
But with Blue Labour in power (for the next 6 months or so at any rate) there is no chance of the English being anything other than second class citizens in there own country.
It is time for the Conservative Party to start thinking “beyond Dave” – he is weak, ineffectual & has no real beliefs or principles.
“their” – apologies.
And so you drone, on and on, day after day.
Go end it all you swivel eyed dinosaur.
What’s the weather like up there in Cameron’s arshole you pathetic spineless lickspittle ?
better that than Ed’s sphincter like you?
better neither of them but you have made your choice clear
Blue socialists – you just cannot accept any criticism of rusty Dave can you?
Rusty Dave has condemned English students to being second class citizens in the Union, in their own country.
Not very Conservative of him, is it?
Labours legacy of anti English policy & legislation is continued under the Coalition – with rusty Dave at the helm.
Can you dispute that with any facts?
You are right.
Moreover isn’t it funny that before the election Tory supporters (and supposed libertarians) were all against tax rises, but afterwards they are crowing for more tax?
This is Tory/libertarian hypocrisy that rankles as much as Labour hypocrisy in opposing tuition fees when they introduced them.
Drone, drone, dribble, froth
Change the record Miss Rightosaurus…
Nationally, 7-10% of students drop out each year. Something approaching 25-30% work in jobs unrelated to their degree. The problem is that of a free buffet, everybody wants to take but nobody wants to give. I think we lose £4-5bn through the above alone.
A lot of kids get degrees just because they think it’s what they’re supposed to do and take soft degrees then piss it all away. Taking ownership of your debt on very generous terms is not an awful thing.
I think the point has been missed by many students and the wider public that most people will see improvements in this plan. The main people who will suffer are semi-literate sports management/philosophy lecturers who will lose their comfy £35k lecturing jobs, with their lovely 10-12% employer pension contributions. Effectively killing off the infestation of socialists in universities.
One simple question would you employ any of those student yobs on the march yesterday. No thought not. So where are they going to go straight on to the dole queue.
Personally, I wish they would just top themselves.
Loads of social engineering & gov bureaucracy non jobs open to these lefty activists, probably better paid, more secure and with better benefits than those in science/engineering.
Starting off as outreach diversity adviser, then the ‘common purpose’ training .. one day maybe one of them will be EU foreign minister, or other politburo post.
NuLabour invested loads of taxpayer’s cash into lefty unions, now they are getting a return on the investment.
Good peice Guido, it came across well! Nobody in public life should ever overlook the point you are making.
It was unfortunately a lousy piece.
Guido puts forward the tribalist fake argument about how terribly unfair it is for a low wage manual worker to pay for a high earning graduate’s degree. Except he doesn’t: taxes are not hypothecated and a high earner pays more tax anyway and sometimes at a higher rate as well.
I am all for degree students paying their way. But having paid, why should they pay more tax as well? Student fees are just extra taxation and nothing to do with ‘fairness’. Whatever happened to ‘flat rate’ income tax?
You assume there are an equal number of high earners to low earners. No, the latter are the majority.
You’re talking shit. Guido is right
You’re talking shit. Guido is wrong
The father of the turd swinging from the union flag at the cenotaph apparently has a fortune of about £80 million. I wonder what he was protesting about? Does he want the taxes of the low paid to carry on subsidising “uni”? Or could it be he is just another overindulged brat?
I think you make the mistake that the mass of “students” are motivated by a rational argument. Most just want to have a day out, to be on the news, to be able to look back and say “I was there.” Argument, reasoning, considering the various viewpoints and alternatives, are not for them.
He wont get jailed he’s dads too rich. Just you watch him get a small fine and bound over at the most. or possibly a caution.
Disgraceful!
This is what idiots said when countries (America, India, etc) fought to get freedom from UK.
Are you comparing the students to Ghandi? Lol
Yes, that is why he is anonymous. It is a fatuous, stupid, incorrect and frankly insulting comparison.
Did your forefathers gave nice kicking to Gandhi? Do you know what was done to this man by the nutters?
Yes: he was shot.
These are 20-25 year old leaders, so think back on what they have seen through their school years.
1. Government does not like another countries regime so they bomb the hell out of them, women and children too.
2. We negotiate and give power to the worst offenders of violence in the name of peace.
3. If you start making trouble, like riots in inner cities, then money flows your way.
4. The media only report the violence in other countries, so why would you expect them to report a peaceful protest.
I’m totally against the violence, and would rat on any of them if I knew them. I was not taught to fight a cause that way. But these leader are a product of your system of teaching.
They have learnt their lessons well, and are now using their knowledge. Reap what you sow.
That would be like comparing MPs to pigs.
Gandhi wasn’t the only freedom fighter in India. Also when Gandhi protested peacefully like many students he was beaten up by British police and army.
Gandhi protested peacefully like most students, he was beaten up number of times and put in prison. Even women in this country has to fight to get votes from Tories and Liberals.
You must be a student – the Tories introduced universal suffrage.
The Labour video worked then. (See Guido passim)
Any relation of Gandhi? The names are so similar…
Tory and Liberal did the same when women asked for votes.
The cenotaph flag swinger has been unmasked as Cambridge undergrad and son of Pink Floyd’s David Gilmour – Charlie Gilmour. I think the only swinging Charlie should be involved in is from a noose.
I didn’t mean to do it. I didn’t know it was a war memorial. I didn’t recognise the flag. Daddy will pay any fines.
He don’t need no education.
Come in here dear boy, have a cigar… and a bullet to the back of the head.
I would like to throw a brick in his face. As a Gilmore (Daddy) fan I trust he did the right thing and told him how many beans make five.
How amazing that his rock-star family privileged background got him to Cambridge but that he didn’t know what the Cenotaph is. I hope they don’t pick him for University Challenge. Charges please, CPS.
Any question about the Cenotaph would be impossible for most of today’s students. They are after all products of the British state-education system.
Don’t think Charlie’s a product of state education. He is studying History at Cambridge which is ironic.
What’s wong wiv twying to pull a flag off an old bit of Portland stone?
Charlie Gilmour = a total tosser. Maybe the Pink Floyd rocker should have spent less time lecturing us all with lefty politics and spent more time bringing up his son not to be a Hunt.
My ancestors made money by funding all the sides, my great great grandmother opened her leg to get money and caught the king.
i aint paying shit to support people richer than me
well you’d better stop paying for the royal family then – the biggest benefit cheats and not even english
64p a day…
worth every penny-less than the cost of your bullet
Most others doesn’t even cost 0.01p a day.
What’s up ‘anonymous’? Afraid you wont have enough money to pay for the shite you so obviously stuff up your nose? Crawl back into the sever w a n k e r!
They are worth paying for because they piss people like you off.
Complete toss. The income from The Duchy of Lancaster & The Crown Estates income tax etc covers the costs and more.
No need for the Civil List, then?
How sad this all is.
I’m stinking rich, it’s all off-shore where the taxman can’t get at it ….
….AND I DON’T FUCKING CARE!!!!!
Glad to see that the fry-up has worked, Guido.
Did you go to university Guido?
I can see you point about this – but the thing is, it is slightly more complicated than the: “i dont wanna pay for their education argument” isnt it? It benefits UK PLC if we have people going to university – even your brother. I accept that we shouldnt pay for all of it, but our government should have a role in investing in it.
Because I don’t want my master to pay tax.
Our government is investing in it – investing what the taxpayer can afford (and some more, since we’ll still have a deficit until 2015).
The taxpayer is skint. The taxpayer is royally pissed off with seeing their money pissed down the drain, and in future, the taxpayer wants to see a return on ‘investment’.
here here!!!
hear! hear!
And that £7 Billion your nice Mr Osborne gave us will be paid back in full when we find a big pot ‘o gold at the end of a rainbow. Honest.
Begorrah!
Just who signed the UK up to the Euro bail out? Oh yes Brown and Darling. Try harder dimwit.
I have no control over the economy and Dave sadly has a medical condition where he hasn’t the balls to say no to the EU. It’s called Cast Iron Lisbonitis of the testes.
He’s certainly NOT my Mr Osborne!
The creation of the European Stability Mechanism in 2013 will formally collapse one of the founding principles of the single currency, ie the “no bail-out” clause.
Rescuing ailing economies will now be enshrined in law through what the draft communique describes as “limited treaty change”. This change may prove to be a headache for some EU member states, especially Britain, whose prime minister vowed to call a referendum if any new powers were to be ceded to Brussels.
It will also be a major issue for the Irish Republic, whose constitution demands that any EU treaty changes get the blessing of the entire electorate. Many Irish people are livid at the high rate of interest (5.83%) demanded from their European partners as part of their 85bn euro bail-out and may exact bitter revenge in a referendum.
Watch for the weasle words from Cameron and Haig to ensure we do not get a referendum.
CAST IRON MY A*** MORE LIKE CARDBOARD CAMERON
Where where?
Our government is also investing in Ireland, Foreign Aid, EU, Banks, etc. At least students will pay tax in future.
Do you think the taxpayer supports all that?
Well Dave isn’t fucking paying for it all out of his own pocket is he?
Once again, do you think WE agree with that? The deal was done by Brown and Darling, ask them why.
I’m helpless! HELPLESS!!! I’m not allowed to do anything or even wipe my bot bot without the EU telling me I can. IT’S NOT FAIR!!!
So the coalition takes it out on ENGLISH students and does sod all about benefit scroungers breeding ever larger families they can’t afford and getting rewarded for it courtesy of Guido’s brother. But apparently thats OK.
Priorities.
At least the students intend to work and should be helped and encouraged not penalised.
Or should they just get pregnant and be given a free house and unlimited cash and perks or become layabouts.
By golly it pays to be Waynetta or Wayne under this apology of a government
214 – did you see what you and your scummy commie thugs did yesterday Why the hell should we pay for shite like you. Get this into your drug fuelled brain IT IS OUR MONEY NOT THE GOVERNMENT’S MONEY – got it? Now sod off!
you’re so brown and greasy
Who is “our” as in “our money …”?
Some of “us” are graduates who apparently expected a free degree in the past but now ‘we’ are earning nicely won’t pay towards the current crop of students.
Tuition fees are just extra tax, in reality. I am in favour of lower taxation not higher.
It’s completely unfair that the children of the middle class university educated get to go to lovely suburban state schools subsidised by the poor who could never afford to send their children there. From now on anyone with a degree will be required to send their children to private school or swap their child with a child born in a housing scheme. I’m taking my children to Tower Hamlets today to swap them for under privileged children. We can make it into a tv show like Multi Coloured Swap Shop.
Well said Engineer. But why can’t Dave and Nicky say this clearly with emphasis so the thick tw*ts out there can understand?
T H E R E I S N O M O N E Y cos jonah and his flying monkeys spent it all (on what I do not know).
Erm the government don’t have money of their own to put in ! it’s all taken from tax payers like mechanics/tyre fitters/ plasterers you know people who create wealth now! not in 10 years or so
When you hear these student types bleating about “free education”, you’d think they were all bright young working class kids being barred from studying classics and medicine at Oxford and Cambridge by evil, elitist Tories.
Back on planet earth, they want us to fund three years of turning up to a couple of lectures a week about the media from some beardy leftist fuckwit in between spending public money on vile 2-for-1 alcopops in the SU bar.
The whole “education” thing is a complete sham. I’d bet that only a tiny fraction of students gain anything at all apart from a bad liver, maniacal left wing views and a host of STDs from going to some shithole town’s former Poly for three years.
Under the coalition’s scheme the rich retain their freedom to go to university and, in theory, the very poor will be cushioned. The families that will be hit are those in the middle.
and only English.
I’m inclined to agree, Hungarian. Most, if they wanted to learn, as opposed to having a 3 year continuation of their gap year, could, sitting at home with some books and a computer, learn as much in one year as these wastrels do in 3.
Obviously there are exceptions in such areas as science when specialist equipment is needed; but if you look back at so many artists, writers, inventors, thinkers, you will not find “Uni” on their C.V.
It’s something of an error to assume that it’s not possible to learn or develop your abiities except in a state-funded education factory.
But the Government is still investing in it, they are offering loans that are competitive, flexible and non-secured.
I agree with Guido entirely on this, I am the first generation to go to university and I had to pay the £3000 p.a. Now I know this is easy for me to say but given the funding model put forward, and the fact I did a high value degree, I would have been prepared to pay more.
I will financially benefit, therefore it is an investment in myself. It is massively unfair that my brothers should have to subsidise my choice especially as it’s a choice which puts me at an advantage over them.
It is true that the country benefits from having a workforce with graduates in it but that is not an argument for skewing the system in favour of them. By that logic we should shift the tax burden from the rich onto the poor as a matter of policy on the premise that rich people benefit the country more than poor people.
Absolutely. These fees should be seen, by the students, as an investment in themselves and their own futures.
With any “investment” there is financial risk.
Now if you were to ask any of these rioting students if they would bet on a horse-race, they might say “No. it’s a gamble init? I might lose!” That is the financial risk.
Now if I was to say to them, “Don’t worry little gullible student, you do not have to use YOUR money for this bet. Bet as much as you like, and you will only have to pay your stake IF your horse wins and the stake will be taken out of the winnings, or IF you come into large amounts of money later on”
They would be in that betting shop putting bets on EVERYTHING!!!!
But when it comes to making an investment with the EXACT SAME ZERO RISK as that fictional bet, they are telling the tax payers of this country, that they do not believe themselves to be worthy of investing in, even with a guaranteed risk free investment!
Now if they are telling us that they are not worth investing in at all, WHY THE FUCK SHOULD THE TAX PAYER FUND THEM???
Get in there Ned. Nice one.
Well said Mr Ned. Just for any students actually able to read, those Browne Report highlights again in full:
•• Students pay nothing up front. Graduates only
make payments when they are earning above
£21,000 per year.
•• Payments are affordable – 9% of any income above
£21,000.
•• If earnings drop, then payments drop. If graduates
stop work for whatever reason, then payments stop
as well.
•• The payment threshold is reviewed regularly to
bring it into line with growth in earnings
•• The interest rate on the loans is the low rate that
Government itself pays on borrowing money.
There is a rebate for low earners.
•• Any balance remaining after 30 years is
written off
•• Support for living costs available to all through an
annual loan of £3,750. No means testing for access
to loans for living costs.
•• Additional support for students from families with
an income below £60,000 per year, up to £3,250
in grants
Is this clear enough? Invest in yourself, no risk, no recourse and at a rate subsidised by Govt. Now stop f**king whinging and eat your free lunch.
Are you suggesting that we taxpayers should give our taxes to “invest” in University students who have absolutely no belief in themselves, Because the Irish Government guaranteed bank deposits?
I do not follow the logic.
Or are you suggesting that we should fund these useless students, because a labour government bailed out the banks?
Again I do not follow the logic.
As far as I am concerned, we should NOT have bailed out the banks, nor should we tax-payers subsidise rich graduates who CAN afford to repay the costs of their education.
Nor should we pay for useless vanity degrees at all.
The problem is that there has been a lot of mis-information. Figures suggesting that graduates earn considerably more over a lifetime tend, I imagine, to be based on the years when graduates were few and far between and were something of an elite, skilled and sought-after.
That just does simply not apply any more.
It benefits the UK only in as much as there is a demand for their chosen qualification. Zanu ignored basic laws of supply and demand in their obsessive meddling, resulting in far too many students, who could not be educated without a massive cost increase in the education budget, or alternatively a rise in tuition fees.
The fact is, most of these graduates are clearly unemployable already and their qualifications worthless.
It would have been far more sensible to offer training and apprentiships in other areas that may have been a benefit to them and the country, rather than falsly instilling in them a sense of FE entitlement, that is illogical at best and immoral at worst.
here here
here, here as a student might say. Hear, hear, as I say.
It benefits UK PLC to have capable students studying worthwhile subjects such as Physics, Pharmacology, Medicine etc.
It benefits nobody to have halfwits who can’t string together a meaningful English sentence wasting three years learning about David Beckham and how to tie shoelaces – that would be £27,000 out of the economy rather than their tax contribution from wages that they should be earning at Booger King.
Strange that no-one has highlighted this [valid IMHO] argument. Suggests it was all pushed through too quickly rather than giving it full debating time.
Are we really so broke we could not spend a bit more time exploring this fundamental change to the english system.
Notice that in the recent survey of literacy / numeracy, the table was headed by the Shanghai Chinese. Not known for spending a great deal per head on education.
+1
the benefits of a totalitarian communist state
the really interesting thing here is that to be literate in chinese terms is to be able to recognise circe 6-7000 characters(high school level)…….and those funny chinese haven’t been utilising our much vaunted progressvie learning methods…the little chaps sit in rows learning by rote and get a whack with a ruler for mistakes…….
and by god it works.
of course, in a society where everyone knows people living on or above survival level income, they have this strange idea of the value education as a ladder up…unlike the great unwashed in our own failing cities…..
“Not known for spending a great deal per head on education”?
Most Chinese are obsessed with getting a decent Western education, my wife (who is from Shanghai) being one of them. She came over here in 98′, paid a sodding fortune in fees, paid her way and subsequently got a decent job. AND she took British citizenship before we married.
Another point which is often overlooked is the Chinese work ethic and the general acceptance that you don’t get anything for nothing, something those bunch of mongs creating havoc in London on Thursday would no sod-all about!
The government does have a role in investing in it – i.e. the heavily subsidised loans. The cost of this subsidy is born by the tax payer.
It doesn’t pay UK PLC for a load of thumbless morons to study arts or humanities.
It does pay UK PLC if bright, hardworking young people study Science, Technology, Engineering or Maths, which is why the teaching grant for these subjects is NOT being cut.
If that is too hard for you to understand dear reader, you are probably a humanities graduate.
Sorry Balders, disagree. My gentleman’s First (2:1) in War Studies taught me to assimilate complex and conflicting information and synthesise this into a coherent view. It developed my understanding of strategy and risk theory so that I could apply this view in a practical and pragmatic way. It helped me learn how to communicate my views to a demanding international audience. It helped make me a reasonably engaging candidate at job interviews.
It has also helped me make so much bloody money that I have so far paid HMG nearly £50m in various taxes.
Now I’m sure that there are many engineering and science degrees that could have done just the same for others with aptitude for those subjects but that just isn’t me. Whatever else I might be I am not a thumbless moron and my hard work has kept scores of science, tech, engineering and maths graduates in gainful employment.
I think UK Plc needs the best and brightest to attend world class universities. Humanities subjects typically cost rather less to offer than the courses you favour. The best bit about Browne is that it empowers students to insist on value for money from their course, whatever it may be, and obliges universities to either step up or step away.
Hi Major.
I was a humanities graduate myself, and like you I now pay eye-watering amounts of tax.
But I don’t think that the taxpayer should have paid for my 3 years of drinking and shagging about (although they did).
The need for doctors, engineers and other technologists is clear and present. Those courses also have the advantage that they have clear “Pass” criteria – they don’t depend on the student having the same world-view as the examiner.
For those of us (like you and me) who want to study softer subjects with less clear links to future value, and whose pass criteria are subject to fudging and bias – fine, go study, but don’t expect the taxpayer to pick up the bill.
Balders, it seems we agree – we don’t want subsidies we want good degrees from good universities and are prepared to pay for the privilege.
ps. I’m a huge fan of your war poetry. Moves me to tears it does.
Value for money, from the students’ point of view, has not actually been discussed, as far as I can see. Assuming they have, say 10 lectures or tutorials a week for 30 weeks a year, that is 300 per year, they are paying up to £30 a session.
Mow that’s OK for individual teaching, but for sitting in a lecture theatre with a hundred other unwashed?
Sounds a bit pricey!
What benefit is a media studies degree to the country? None of the Mickey Mouse degrees I’ve seen being dished out like confetti have done the country much good. Now things like medicine, engineering, metallurgy, physics, chemistry and maths I can see the point of them. BUT FUCKING MEDIA STUDIES?????????????
exactly. so if you need to go into debt to the tune of 27K for a degree that does not have a route to one of the professions – you likely won’t go. i suggest these reforms will lead to a diminishing number of just such woolly degrees. demand will wither.
I do media studies every night when I read the paper and then watch the telly.
Do you think that Will pays or will pay higher or lower taxes than ‘the poor’ into the system?
He will probably use his Dad’s connections, earn a lot of money, and put it through an offshore tax haven.
Like the guardian ( you know the one that are against Legal Tax aviodence ) ?
Hypocritical Hunt’s.
Or he will continue to peddle the shite he was supplying to those add@cts on the street, until the cops nabbed him {and his Dad, Jack man of Staw, was Home Secretary at the time}. You couldn’t make it up could you?
My grandad wouldn’t defend this Country during WWII so why why I bother to do anything for it ??
And his dad, brave Jack Straw declined to join the CCF at his boarding school to highlight his pacifist principles. Although he was an enthusiastic supporter of the war in Iraq and sending folk off to be tortured by the yanks.
A real man of principle Jack Straw. Right up there with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.
I’m right behind our boys in Afghanistan and Obama is right behind me giving me a good bullyramming. Oooooohhhh!!! That smarts. Hrrrrrrnnnnngghh!! Yes Mr Obama we will keep sending our troops to die for you. Owwwww!! Please sir can I have another ?
Er, I think Cameron has stated our troops are coming out asap.
Did he really ? Well they should be out tomorrow then because he’s a man of his word.
Whereas you, are a man of your turd.
Dave Heir etc
Your rubbish trolling is dull and pointless.
You may go.
Piss off TaT or are you going to telll us all about the spacealiens again you nutter fuck.
TaT hearts big strong men
Finished? Good, you may go.
Gordon Brown is the best example of what happens if someone has too much “student” in them
And too few bullets in him.
Student in them? Don’t mind if I do!
Before very long , it will be normal to have to pay to take an apprenticeship , its a natural extraction of tuition fees!
Bullshit.
Apprentices are paid less whilst they learn on the job. When they are time served, they earn more. the difference between the two amounts is what pays for their training.
Or am I missing something and have labour decided to steal tax off me to pay for apprenticeships too?
I was thinking of the old fashioned apprenticeships that were funded by the employer.
Obviously not a humanities student or you would have spotted and understood the meaning of the phrase “Before very long”
Judge slams police force that let off woman superintendent caught driving at 29mph over the speed limit Police Totty Helen Chamberlain was trapped by a speed gun, but was told by the PC who pulled her over that she would not be prosecuted.
She had originally denied the offence, arguing that the speed gun used by her Nottinghamshire force colleague was not accurate.
Superintendent Chamberlain, 43, pleaded guilty on the day her trial was due to start.
Just Like MP’s, lie and cheat its ok…we are all in it together.
Thought she was the totty on Soccer am ?
deluded when in office and deluded now ,any one seen him in the commons of late ?
Not deluded. But very deliberate spin by Labour and the left. The book is the first step in re-writing history. Get the bullshit out there early doors, get your media friends to publicise it and hope some people start to believe it. The BBC have always claimed that Labour did nothing wrong, and will continue to do so for as long as it is in existence, this book is an integral part of the long term process of rewriting history with at least part of the electorate, the ones who won’t remember what Labour did or and the ones who were too young to remember. All these messages re-inforced to children via marxist Teachers and yoof culture. Communication is the only thing the left can do.
Advice to students, don’t poke a sleeping bear unless you’re willing to fight an angry bear.
http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/ruralshire-tactical-tees-available-now-for-christmas/#comments
Rooftop Marksmen, Headshots.
No more stewdents urinating on the architecture.
You’re SO butch Ducky!
I know. All the other boys tell me it in the showers too.
Depends if the net output realised by the enhanced capabilities of said gradute exceed the losses of a lower paid individuals- i.e. is there a net benefit to society too?
Aaron Porter and his rent-a-drones are still dicks tho.
That girl in the photo desecrating the Cenotaph should be sent to Afghanistan as a one use IED detector.
I agree
Guido – lets raise a reward to have her identified, then name and shame her
She won’t be hard to find – probably lives in an Islington Earth Mother Commune
‘She’ is a transexual called Dave/Tara, and is a UAF goon from Liverpool.
This sounds made up but isn’t.
I support her aims fully.
I bet she stinks of piss and has no friends.
Who ? Camilla ?
I’d put in for that little pot. Get her identified, report her to the head of her university and lets see what they think about their proteges behaviour. Make an example of the little slag.
He is Chris Gilmour, son of David
The irony – Oh the irony
At £5,000 per annum per head for 13 years between the ages of 5 to 18 each student has already received £70,000 of support from the taxpayer.
Anyway, most degrees could be completed in 18 months to 2 years.
HEPI research shows contact time for average UK undergrad is 13 hours per week (less than most other countries) – although plenty of UK degree courses (you can guess which ones) down in single figures – at 33 weeks term time this gives 429 hours contact time per year – i.e. actual teaching time per degree only amounts to 32 weeks at 40 hours per week. For some courses the entire taught content could be completed in 10 weeks
Yeah why are we paying for primary school kids ? Tax it back out of their pocket money !!!
Definitely. If these primary school kids are 18 or over then they should definitely be paying.
Until recently , thats what they did in the People’s Paradise of China . No money -no school!
And look how well they’re doing.
In your case ‘anonymous, no brains = stinking student riff-raff.
Lefties dont like facts getting in the way of a good riot !!!!
Why is there almost no coverage of this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/8190379/National-Union-of-Students-secretly-urged-Government-to-make-deep-cuts-in-student-grants.html
Leaked emails reveal that the very last thing the NUS was interested in was standing up for poorer students.
See 16 .
Because this is not helpful to ‘the cause’.
That’ll be £145.50. Thank you for your custom.
Students just spend all their time raping girls, downloading kiddie porn and wanking.
And after lectures ?
I used to do loads of drugs as well.
After lectures they bum each other before shagging their sisters.
Judging from the appearence of said students on tv yesterday, few could argue your observation.
Perhaps wanking could be elevated to a degree level, they looked as if they excelled in that particular pursuit.
Has Will Straw ever had a proper job ( apart from dealing drugs) ?
No never. His University time was a complete waste of money.
His dad managed to swing him a job in the US for a while until somebody pointed out to the yanks that he probably didn’t tick the correct box on his green Visa form.
The one that asks something like
‘Have you ever been convicted of an offence that carries a maximum penalty of more than 12 months in prison…’
Hahahahaha.
Clegg paid £9,000 for a room full/made of meat? It’s outrageous the price they charge you for protein based structures these days.
Johan Hari – officially the worlds biggest fucking whiner.
And twat.
whilst i’m at it can all the loony left stop making patronising coments such as ‘the poor are scared of debt’ – does that mean that all poor people are stupid? if someone is from a disadvantaged background and has the brains and motivation to apply to Uni doesn’t that mean that they are likely to ‘understand’ debt. Coupled with the fact they have to be earning a tidy sum before they repay any contribution a little money management should see them through.
patronising morons.
We all know that the marches are litle to do with the fees but more the left sulking for being found out and chucked out of power.
Come on Red Ed, anything to say to the Unions who will be meeting the NUS, like tell them to cut it out?
I used to be poor. Now I’m rich. But I’m still scared shitless of debt.
If only more people in the UK were more fearful of debt then we wouldn’t be in the monumental economic clusterfuck in which we find ourselves.
It’s not poor folk who are ‘scared of debt’ it is smart folk who are scared of debt. That is why the UK is fucked. Too many stupid C*unts borrowing too much money.
This economic clusterfuck is a triumph for idiocy. It is as clear a sign as you could hope for that your fellow citizens are, on average, utter fucking morons.
it’s the whole mindset of having everybody else pay for you.
There’s no need to be scared on managed debt, whose risk can properly be assessed. But when there’s a free for all it’s time to fear the boom and bust.
We don’t give a fuck about debt because you mug taxpayers are paying for ours.
We don’t give a fuck about debt because some other c*unt will have to clean up our mess. And we’ll be making it as hard as possible to do so for purely political advantage.
But just like the last debts on students the terms and conditions are changed at a whim. No one would trust having a debt with a government.
Then do not take out a loan with the government. Take out one with a bank and see how much you have to pay back ( with penalties ) in the real world.
“Then do not take out a loan with the government. Take out one with a bank and see how much you have to pay back ( with penalties ) in the real world.”
Agreed, and see if you can get a mortgage where if you happen to earn less than 21K for any reason, they will let you not pay anything.
Earning just above 21K? 7 quid a month (apparently).
+ 1
no itsnot fair and you are completely right.
Not only are the poor having to fund courses that are somethimes pathetic they are funding perpetual students to do course after course after course.
The NUS press conference today was disgusting – stirring it up, being pathetic and argumentative and unfortunately coming across as thick – they also brought along what looked like jesus to bolster their case – he didn’t.
Well done to the coalition and well done to the police who were very reatrained.
“apprentice mechanic ” – Who paid for all his training?
Did the company get any help with the training? Was he really contributing to the wealth of the country for the first few years? I know few apprentices that earned anything like enough to pay significant taxes.
“The National Minimum Wage for apprentices is £2.50 per hour. Many employers prefer to pay more however, and research shows that the average salary is approx £170 per week.”
“Funding
Apprenticeship funding is available from the National Apprenticeship Service. The size of the contribution varies depending on your sector and the age of the candidate. If the apprentice is aged 16–18 years old, you will receive 100 per cent of the cost of the training; if they are 19-24 years old, you will receive up to 50 per cent; if they are 25 years old or over you may only get a contribution depending on the sector and area in which you operate.
This is paid directly to the organisation that provides and supports the Apprenticeship; in most cases this will be a learning provider. Large employers with a direct contract with the National Apprenticeship Service may receive the funding themselves.
“
Most time served people get more take home pay than their degree qualified managers. OK they work hard for it, with overtime.
But until the degree qualified person makes top management there is no pay back. Very few get that far. But without them there will be no UK. Stop thinking about the distorted London situation and look at the real world.
But then again there is no real world left, as the bankers are not investing in the UK future, only their own pockets.
Straw is a proven liar and, a serial shagger even his Blogster son has disowned him….
At least he got that right
One thing’s for sure, Guido’s brother’s career is a lot more useful to society than Will Straw’s.
+1
+2
+3
+ 4
+5
Will Straw should join the flag-ripper in IED clearing duties in Durkadurkastan.
+5
The only reason why students are so pissed off is because if they have to pay for their degree – they will then feel that to actually justify the expense they should get off their arses and do some work
Nus phone number
0207 380 6600
You arent putting the number up so that you expect pissed off taxpayers here to ring up and give them some abuse ?
If so count me in !
Friday lunchtime. You’re wasting your time.
Well bowled , Will leave it till after nieghbours .
If you had to spend time talking to that idiot willstraw last night , your hangover this morning is entirely understandable.
As for tuition fees , as some sensible woman on QT last night pointed out, in America students have to work evenings to pay for their degrees, so why shouldn’t anyone who wants a degree here do the same thing?
can’t be arsed innit
I’m be forced to sell drugs on the streets if you don’t give me shit loads of money.
Very entrepreneurial of you. You could learn a lot from the BigPharmaCo and how it maintains demand with the NHS.
Or you could sell your little spotty botty at Charing Cross.
Wait. There was a sensible woman on QT?
Last time I saw one of those it carried a handbag and got a refund off Messrs Mitterand and Kohl.
She didn’t exist.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1213977/Harriet-Harman-forced-acknowledge-Margaret-Thatcher-oversight-airbrushes-Iron-Lady-political-history.html
Harriet who? Never heard of her.
Is she another one of those jumped up, patronising, fabian snotbubbles?
Wait. There was a sensible woman on QT?
Last time I saw one of those it carried a handbag and got a refund off Messrs Mitterand and Kohl.
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/politicspast/images/0,9069,972422,00.html
No it’s not fair.
These over hyped students need some harsh discipline, then they would appreciate the freedom of the democracy they are demonstrating in.
I see some poor wee fella is complaining he was hit on the head with a truncheon, how sad, I imagine he was just an innocent bystander!
I saw one lout hit a copper with a scaffold pole, he didn’t appear to have been arrested. I wonder if that was the one complaining about police brutality??
I wonder if the Morons who attacked Prince Charles realised that his escorts were the armed police protection squad?
I see one of them left his hand print on the car’s window. Shouldn’t be too hard to bang him to rights.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1337088/ROYAL-CAR-ATTACK-Yard-chief-says-mob-attacking-Charles-Camillas-car-lucky-shot.html
we mustn’t be cruel to the royals must we?
when have either of them a a real job?
The Prince’s Trust has helped many young people not only get a job, but provided start-up funding for their businesses.
What’s a “real” job? Define. I expect it has to be manual and involve sweat.
I think they realised that the Met are the most pathetic police force in the world! Just stand by and watch buildings being smashed up and even one of their own vans! I am glad I have moved out of the Capital…………
Doubt it, full credit to the police on that call, must of been a tough one. Cant imagine another country where the protection team wouldn’t of pulled weapons,piled on chaz and his bint then sped away at top speed, leaving the protesters to be hog-tied over here we see that as an over reaction. But i would of loved to see them shit themselves when the Glocks came out
Fucking great police work to realise they were middle class wimps and so not a real threat to anyone. Less skilful police would have shot them all for attacking the royal car.
Errm.. isn’t it time the Met and City of London council sent the bill to the NUS and made these fuckers personally responsible for the cost or manpower damage and repairs? They might think twice about the need to demonstrate then.
1. Kettle them at 17:00
2. Spray them with water cannons at 18:00
3. Un-kettle the survivors at 06:00 the following morning.
And let’s hope it’s sub-zero all the way — hey, they could ‘hug a hoodie’ to keep warm.
Time for all sensible students to leave the anarchist NUS.
Why take it out an an effigy of Winston Churchill and the British flag?.
oops, on.
Marxisim , Winston defeated it in the 2nd world war , The left have been pissed about it ever since .
I noticed on other blogs about six or eight years ago the rise of the vilification of Churchill from the left. It’s become much more overt now. Going on about his apparent fondness for refreshing beverages and exalting in him being given a P45 straight after the war.
To the left he embodies everything they hate. Rich, privileged, right-wing, courageous and right (as in ‘correct’). There’s been a slow-burn from the left for a while now to overturn his importance in UK history.
It is entirely natural that their supporters would think it perfectly in order to deface his statue and the cenotaph.
“One student urinated on the Winston Churchill statue in the square, which was also daubed with offensive graffiti, including messages saying “racist warmonger” and “Churchill was a —-”. “ – Telegraph.co.uk
It would have been so much better for the Lefties if that nice Mr Hitler had been allowed to conquer all of Europe and slaughter communists and union members with impunity. How dare that Mr Churchill stand up to him!
Seriously: what the fuck are they teaching children at school?
and slaughter communists and union members with impunity
So he wasn’t all bad.
Evidently that Churchill was a ‘racist warmonger’. They will have to pull his statue down in ten years time and erect one for Stalin or Pol Pot in it’s place.
He did but it took the left in USSR, Soviet Bloc and China another 50 years to know that they had been beaten but some in the UK and the rest of the EU still don’t know that it will never work. Thick gits.
Hmm, didn’t defeat Marxism exactly, did he? German NatSoc, perhaps…
He bought Britain some time, but the conditions attached meant that other, stealthier forces got to poison and dismember the country in the longer term.
Why take it out an an effigy of Winston Churchill and the British flag?.
Because students are the most PC, anti-West, anti-white segment of society.
Welcome to the next generation of Jack Straws and Harriet Harmans.
They don’t like the smell of victory. They always want Eurasia to be at war with Oceania.
Edit: Eurasia to be at war with Eastasia.
Edit: Eastasia to be at war with Oceania.
Edit: Eurasia to be at war with Oceania.
Edit: To always have a bogeyman and keep the proles in their place with fear. And surprise.
Fabians should be shot on sight, and shot again to be sure.
I very much doubt whether the “students” responsible have much historical knowledge. They might have some vague recollection of the name Churchill being connected with WW2, but I doubt they would be too certain which side he was on. Perhaps the “racist warmonger” jibe shows that they confused him with Hitler. Easily done. And he had 6 wives.
I notice that the Fire Brigades Union has fully supported the demo, so no help with water cannon from this bunch of lefty trouble makers who will stop work at the drop of a leaky washer.
http://anticuts.com/2010/12/09/message-of-support-from-general-secretary-of-fbu/
should your brother pay for 16-18 year old further education? Should childless couples pay for primary schools
It was a Conservative government that first introduced free university tuition on the grounds that education should be earnt on the basis of intellectual capacity and not bought on the basis of your parents’ financial capacity.
It was Labour, committed to the idea that the poor should always stay poor and that social mobility should be destroyed forever, who first rolled back the clock by making education a purchased commodity instead of something to be earnt on the basis of ability.
It is very sad to see not only the Tory Party but especially so-called Thatcherites like Guido so happy to embrace a policy whose sole function is to impose absolutely rigid class-based distinctions in society. Those who support the fees will find that their shortsighted jealousy-driven zeal for screwing over those who are more academically gifted will come back to haunt them in years to come – especially since these fees ensure that no-one born into the Labour-made underclass will ever get the chance to crawl out.
It’s all to do with cost- it’s not an ideologically driven course of action. We just can’t afford Universities any more, now that they’ve been expanded beyond all reason. It’s like running armed forces of 2 million- a bit too pricey, I’m afraid.
One solution would be to cut down the numbers of universties and students, but that’s politically incorrect and cannot be mentioned. Sorry.
Wont be English !!!!
Australian ?
Runners up will receive scratch’n'sniff copies of Canterbury Tales and a signed photo of a well-trodden front doormat.
Second prize, two signed copies of Beyond the Crash.
Third Prize, a box of signed copies of Beyond the Crash.
I wonder how many thousands of copies of his turgid twaddle they’ve got stacked up, desperately trying to get rid ??
You’ve stolen my 145 number.
Not read it , am i right in assuming the crash was his premiership?
Me, surely not?
The Met blunders again, Charles and Camilla get kettled in Rolls-Royce.
That reminds me of the time that steam arose from the radiator when I took a young filly over the bonnet of my Jaaaaaaaaaag.
She was very tight but then I do have a reputation for being mistaken for a horse.
My beef is that I do think it grossly UNFAIR that only ENGLISH students have to pay this.
Then their future taxation will be used to further subsidise Scots and Welsh students through Barnett.
If ever there was a day for someone to launch a petition calling for a referendum for an English parliament – It is this day.
I would imagine that the English students could have case on the grounds of human rights.
If we are one nation UKPLC then all should be be equally treated.
Only the English students get lumbered with repayal.
Foreign students will get fees paid in Wales, not sure on Scotland but think they do. But English students in Welsh universities will not! They will certainly not in Scotland.
This is real injustice.
Add to that students who leave the country will not be required to repay. So we will be educating plenty of the Indian sub continent for free.
In the house It was said that David Cameron on his recent visit to China made the point that English students will be required to pay to help keep the cost down for Chinese nationals.
Brain numbing stuff.
I support the students 100%. I wonder who the rioters were under those masks and hoodies?
Good question. We know from past events both here and overseas that they can be more akin to certain security groups than to student ones.
Ever heard of Agent provocateurs?
It gets more confusing. We are an English family living, happily, in Wales. As my kids have a Welsh address they will not pay the higher fees.
In fact, do a McShane and rent a garage in Wales and call it your address.
Confusing +1, if you live in Wales they would not have to pay those fees even if they attended a University in England.
Better to pay the cash than live in Wales surely.
Paris might be worth a mass but Wales ain’t worth a prayer.
Wales, like Scotland, is empty for a reason. The invention of railways mainly but laterally mo*t*rways and airports.
Eich swyddi bob amser yn gwneud i mi chwerthin jg. Bob amser yn darllen yn dda.
I agree Mr Griffin
Well, there has to be some sort of compensation for enduring Wales.
English students want their heads looking at if they go to Uni in Scotland. For starters, because the Scots leave school at 17, a normal degree is 4 years long. So that’s four years of fees as opposed to three years in England.
Plus you’d be living in Scotland. Which is shit on so many levels apart from the outright racism the Scottish government displays in uniquely, of all the students of Europe, charging the ones resident in England higher fees. Then there’s the racism from the rest of the native Scots who seem to stagger under the weight of the biggest shoulder-chips in the universe. Plus the weather is shit. And it’s fucking miles from anywhere warm.
Scotland.
It’s empty for a reason.
Strangely Guido does not have a problem that his brothers tax will subsidise the Welsh and Scots students through Barnett?
Only English ones are undeserving apparently!
Bit selective methinks.
Scotland: Where self-righteous bigots pick the pockets of the poor.
Cut it loose and rebuild the wall.
Fcuk right off.
There is a fair chunck of merry England between the Wall and the Sweaties over the Border.
Scotland – a place where only 1 in 10 work, the rest constantly push their snouts e and more into the English taxpayers pocket…. Scotland not even a 3rd world country!
wacists!! WACISTS!!!
Like your cranium.
The Scots are racist but I’m not.
FFS.
Yes, of course that’s how it works in Scotland. If they’re making snide remarks then they’re ‘just kidding’. If you point it out then you’re the racist.
Heads I win, tails you lose. Whase like us? We’re fucking great we are. Scoootland, scooootland. Fuck off you pansy English bastards youse. Bunch of fucking Nigels, go on, fuck off back home you racist bastards youse.
You don’t even realise you’re doing it. Government policy to charge only the English students more and that’s perfectly normal. Nothing to see here.
Hahahaha.
Beyond parody.
Hahahaha.
Beyond parody.
I’d imagine you make your husband’s life a misery.
Bunch of fucking Nigels, go on, fuck off back home you racist bastards youse.
———
A perfectly valid point in your case, jgm2.
Never a truer word spoken in jest.
Hahahahaha.
See. Told you. Can’t help yourselves.
Beyond parody.
Hahahaha.
It’s their obvious chippyness, cowardliness and insecurity that makes them so hilariously oblivious and beyond parody.
Hahahahaha.
It would be very un-PC to notice that it is specifically English students that are getting shafted, so students pretend not to see the blatant discrimination.
It’s just years of cultural self-loathing I suppose.
Just think of the choice. A non-English student that has no repay tax and an English student with the added tax.
So you drop the pay, and just select the non-English graduate. Win win situation. Why bother with our graduates. We have just made them uncompetitive.
Get rid of them all. Petition your MP to have compulsory independence for Wales. Scotland, Ireland and Cornwall.
Then move onto the North East, Merseyside, Hull.
Why stop there. Those Brums look at bit odd. Not English at all.
When you finish at the white cliffs then you can turn back and say at last, its my England…
What are you blathering about? Cutting the Jocks and Taffs adrift makes sound political sense. They either hate or dislike us and frankly I could not care less why. Let them go and do their thing and build their socialist utopias, with their own money, not mine.
When I was at University in the eighties, the college authorities used to salivate at the prospect of foreign students. They used to lay on all sorts of events and facilities for them while doing Bugger all for the indigenous English!! This country is run by stinking self loathing Gobshites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guido, your brother is likely to be paid less than most graduates throughout his working life and retire later thus paying for others to enjoy a free or subsidised education longer than most graduates will be paying. No that is not fair.
Aaron Porter would sacrifice poor and disadvantaged students from entering full or p/t education by slashing or denying funding for them in order to keep his comfortably well off students on lower fees. His proposals also support a substandard education system that exists on regressive cuts and tax system.
The Institute for Fiscal Studies support the Coalition’s proposals and agree that it is a fairer system than the one that is currently in place.
The Straw family get treated differently than the rest of the country. Something about child abuse? Or was it drugs? You remember.
Both.
Visit today to national electrical chain.
Young assistant: Hello how are you?
Me: fine how are you,. YA-Well not to bad but I’ve got a bump on my head.
Me: I hope you didn’t get that in a riot. YA no but it looked like fun.
Me: It was disgusting. YA. I wouldn’t have gone to university if I had to pay those high fees.
Yes this idiot is a graduate and he now works as a retail sales clerk!!!!
Well you see that is the funniest part about it. This numbskull has just paid 20K to hide himself from the dole queue for three years to get a job that 20 years ago would have been taken by some 16 year old straight out of school with two ‘O’ levels.
He’s just spent five years hiding from the dole to get the same job.
Same with 80% of the kids at university today. They’ve been sold a pup.
All those call centre employees would, in the 1960′s, be girls who left school at 14 to work in the telephone exchange but now they’re 21 with sheafs of GCSE’s, A levels and a degree, 20K in debt and have to put their hand up to go to the bathroom.
Too funny.
Education, eddyerkashun, ejjerkaayshun.
Too funny .. too true
Just a thought — is it possible to sue NUS for expenses of polising and cleaning up after all these demos? After trhey are bankrupt they will think twice before starting again something like this… Ah, sweet dreams
These students forget that they will be taxpayers as well one day.
Yes taxpayers helping Scots and Welsh get subsidised or free university.
Unfair – I’d say so!!
Whilst paying back for their own.
Double whammy!!
Oh, it’s still funny to see everyone ranting on about the students. I’m waiting for the royal family backlash.
In the meantime why is it that when the successive governments and their mates fuck up the economy everyone, except them, has to pay for it?? Last I herd MPs are still clocking up their expenses at our expense – Tory minister flies back fromCancun to spend few hours at Westminister before hurridly returning to Cancun – wait for it, for a global warming shindig, at our expense. Thes fucking MPs are the traitors not the students FFS
Congratulations, you have worked out the political class is corrupt. Sadly you appear to be unaware of just how we arrived at this destination. Been sleeping for the last thirteen years have we?
I’m going to the next protest in London when it happens, not to join the protestors, but to fuck up as many of them as possible.
You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I’m telling you why
The real anarchists are coming to town
We aren’t dirty unwashed fucking hippies who want the taxpayer to fund our lifestyles!!! Surely those anarchists were defying anarchist principles by asking the government to fund education out of direct taxation? Rothbard would be dismayed. Lots of eggs and some home made tear gas coming your way Aaron Porter… I’d get some better fucking glasses If I were you
hi santa
ooh can I join…. Please.
Samantha sucked off an entire pissed up Rugby team at their christmas do and yet, ‘because she’s from a salvation army family’, sends the waiter away with a flea in his ear because there’s Tia Maria in the tiramisu.
What a fucking hypocrite.
Should have used Frangelico.
It’s simple.
If the government wants the benefits of a university education then it should fund it up front.
If the government doesn’t want to fund, it shouldn’t expect the benefits.
Any student who funds, should pay a lower rate of tax.
But where are the benefits of Mickey Mouse degrees like ‘Golf Course Management’?
One of my nieces took a degree in ‘dance’ (she got pregnant in her 2nd year and dropped-out to live on benefits). Who should pay for the ‘benefit’ that Britain’s reaped from her 1.5 years of ‘study’?
Her, or you and me?
He really did say that. You’re not mishearing it.
My guarantees are as cast iron as those of my esteemed colleague’s, Mr. Cameron. I swear.
We will be different ! Honetht !
My remarks were taken out of context.
“Will I ever join a Conservative government ? NO!“
Not only would your Brother have to pay for will to go to uni, he would be buying quality tools to do his job which cost thousands of pounds ( like snap on ) over his working lifetime.
So to make it fair maybe the government could lend him the money to buy all the tools that he would need to do his job, just like it is lending students the money to have the knowledge (tools) that they need for there chosen profession.
And they should lend me money at sub-mar**et rates to get a diving certificate and a pilots lic*nc* and for a season ticket. Because I like doing those things too.
Sub market rates? It works for us. Now where’s my bonus?
If they hadn’t bailed out the Irish banks and ensured Soros and The Rothchilds got their money back they would have money for English students and tools.
Priorities methinks.
The coalition stinks!
Who bailed out the banks again, who are Soros and Rothschilds biggest friends? Don’t keep coming up with what was loaned to the Irish banks under an agreement that Brown and Darling signed us up to either. Now who spunked ALL the money away, so the likes of Goldman Sachs did not take a haircut? You probably voted for them too.
I gave the Irish Banks £7 Billion because I have no control over the economy and because Dave isn’t allowed to say no to Europe.
Having served an apprentieship as a Mechanic in the mid 1960′s I can vouch for the high cost cost of decent tools, if you turned up with cheap tools the foreman would dump them in the bin.. Some of the larger garages would supply them and deduct the cost out of our wages (in fact ,some insisted on it).
Of course, in those far off days apprentices were called Grease Monkeys because they earned their keep(and cost of training) by carrying out the Lube (oil changes, greasing etc.) part of servicing Nowadays the trend is to make jobs sound posher so they are called Vehicle Technicians. I remember telling an apprentice technician to clear up the mess he had made in the workshop to which he told me he was a technician and was not employed to clear up his own mess. The Boss told him to ferk off home and that was the last we saw of him.I gave another 2nd year apprentice the job of changing the top hose on the bank managers jag ( a relatively simple job), he apparently tried to do it using a knackered screwdriver he had been using earlier that day as a chisel. Thje screwdriver slipped and went straight through the radiator. I told him he was ferking useless and gave him a thump. The next day he came along to the garage with his irate mum screaming that one of the mechanics had thumped him for no reason. That was another one out the door. Oh happy days. The lad that I thumped has kept in touch for the last 40 odd years and is a good friend. The consequecies of giving lip to a mechanic when I was an apprentice is too traumatic to think about.
Leader of Westminster Council, Councillor Colin Barrow, said: “The behaviour we witnessed last night is completely acceptable. While we support violentl protest, we have to applaud those who deliberately set out to harm police officers, cause damage to property and reek general mayhem.
“We must condemn the police for the stupidityt they showed and also our street staff, all of whom are graduates, who did an admirable job overnight, cleaning up extensive rubbish and removing graffiti that had been ruthlessly daubed on every statue and road sign that could be found.
“The behaviour of the protesters will ultimately cost taxpayers tens of thousands of pounds,which otherwise would have been deposited with an Icelandic Bank, and mean that our staff had to be diverted from their usual tasks of drinking tea and munching biscuits.”
Oh anonymous, you are such a left-wing mong!
The hard truth is not everyone should go to university – they simply havent got the brains. Most of them can barely sit still in a classroom never mind a further 3 years at university so let us at least fund those who are capable of learning, who want to learn and get rid of the dross that currently masquerades as students at what currently masquerades as universities but are in the truth the polytechnics of the 60′s. Labour are responsible for a huge con, for setting the wrong expectations and I hope Gove will make this clear and hold them to account. We simply cannot afford to send everyone to university just cos it will make them feel good. We have to be rational and selection is a natural fact of life. They should compete for available funds not expect free handouts.
It was obvious from the pictures last night that many of those creating the mayhem were clearly just thugs. They couldn’t even spell their graffiti correctly so how would a university educashun help?
I was also disgusted at the press conference held by UCU this morning which did not condemn the violence and which rather appeared to have the support of the teaching staff at UCL. As a former alumni, I hope the Provost Professor Grant will dissociate the university and college from such disgraceful actions and commentary. UCL should hang their head in shame.
Galtieri Gilmour
These are 20-25 year old leaders, so think back on what they have seen through their school years.
1. Government does not like another countries regime so they bomb them, women and children too.
2. We negotiate and give power to the worst offenders of violence in the name of peace.
3. If you start making trouble like riots in inner cities, then money flows your way.
4. The media only report the violence in other countries, so why would you expect them to report a peaceful protest.
I’m totally against the violence, and would rat on any of them if I knew them. I was not taught to fight a cause that way. But these leader are a product of your system of teaching. They have learnt their lessons well, and are now using their knowledge.
You reap what you sow.
On question Time last night, after the new policy was fully explained (ie, most students will pay back £7 a month after they’re earning 21k pa), the issue was raised…
“Why can’t the Liberal Democrats get this point across?”
It’s easy, you only have to watch BBC news to see why. BBC political editors such as toenails have a lot to answer for.
Anyone notice BBC Ten O’Clock news showed police having a go at students but not the other way round? I saw the attacks on horses live. I was seething. The BBC also had it from an eye wittness that a firecracker was thrown at a mounted policeman, the horse bolted and threw the guy off. The BBC dropped this angle immediately and reported…
“A policeman has fallen off His horse”
Here’s a question, why can’t the police spray indelible dye onto the crowds causing all the problems?, they could just pick up the feckers at their leasure. Universities not reporting blue students would have their income removed.
Hear hear – and would water canons really be so bad? – on a cold night they might be particularly effective
Flamethrowers would be better! Keep them nice and warm, and send the scum back to hell.
Bollocks. There was plenty of shots showing the police being attacked and missiles thrown at the horses. Suggest you go to Specsavers mate.
On the News at Ten? They showed it live in the afternoon, I didn’t see it in the edits.
Hang on a bit.
English!!! students will pay it back.
If its such a pittance why can’t the rest of UKPLC take on the debt and pay it back too.
Get your fucking hands out of my pocket you parasite, fund your own FE if you want to, or get mummy and daddy to dig deep.
I support the fee’s with three key amendments:
1. Rather the Government holding the liability for student loans – each loan, bursary, scholarship should be made by the higher education establishment directly with the student (initially backed by the government). This would ensure that the future income of the university is dependent on the success of the students they educate – this will have impact on courses offered, teachers employed, and student selection. It would open up real competition amongst universities!
2. Establish individual ‘Higher Education’ investment plans which can be set up by a parent on the birth of each child. A parent could then transfer a proportion of their salary (tax free) i.e. 2.5% per child to be used for higher education or apprenticeship’s. A parent could be ‘taxed’ an additional 0.5% to top up the schemes of children from poor or unemployed families, and you could also look for an additional employer contribution.
• Students would need to borrow less for higher education
• Students would have greater power with high education (having cash not debt – see point 2 below)
• Parents would bear some responsibility for the cost of educating their children
3. Allow universities to make a profit and have shareholders
That should shake things up a bit
Just privatise, would be much easier
It was all worth it just to see the fear on the faces of those two rich gawps in a Roller. Just brilliant. It was also worth it to hear the chief pratt Stevenson this morning saying how restrained his armed officers had been. Tell you what, if one of those clowns had fired a shot and killed somebody there wouldn’t be just demos in the future – they’d be massive riots and dead police officers.
But he didn’t and there won’t be. Now sit down and make yourself a cup of tea
The Royal Protection Squad are not clowns. I happen to admire them.
The clowns are the violent demonstrators and their supporters in the meeja (BBC especially).
Eny fule kno that RPS officers are armed, and it takes a complete idiot or a committed suicidist to attack HRH’s car at close quarters. A decision to fire (to disable) on whoever nearly got through the Roller’s window would, in my view, have been justified.
There is no imperative to attack HRH; they could have confined themselves to booing if they wished to show disapproval. I hope Plod gets the lot of ‘em and that Keir WobblyAsJelly Starmer discovers enough backbone to prosecute.
A truly ‘Louis and Marie Antoinette’ moment, don’t you think? …………………. “Wind down the window Chaaaarles, and throw them a few custard creams – Duchy Originals of course!”
jgm2′s presence on here is spookily reminiscent of a blue arsed fly in a jam jar.
Methinks she is on the blob.
Thanks for the namecheck Anon.
You too.
Having you around is like having Engand’s most know-it-all pub bore on tap.
At least on here you won’t get your teeth knocked out
What utter bollox. Jgm2 is always interesting and often informative. It’s pillox like you that waste space here.
no, he’s a twat like you
You are Alf Garnett (without the humour) and I claim five quid.
Guido,
That’s a false argument (about your brother/Will Straw).
My dad was a builder and left school at 14.
I got a full grant (this is late 1980s) and went on to get a First at Oxford.
My dad thinks this was well worth paying his taxes for.
Everybody including your Dad are not paying enough taxes in 2010 to ballance the defecit. The country can’t afford it anymore. In the words of the intolerable slaphead…
“There’s no money left”
Guido’s argument is sound.
Back then 10% went to Uni, now it’s 50%. It has become, by design, unsustainable unless fees are increased. Is it really that difficult to understand?
You are Ian Paisley Jr., etc.
Well my dad thinks paying taxes to send a dopey c*u*n*t like you to uni was a waste of his hard earned. And he’s bigger than your dad !
I bleed, sir, but not kill’d.
while media headlines and politicians of all colours are damning the students, while the arguments here and elsewhere are mainlyl about our taxes being spent on students, government continues to use our taxes to fund huge salaries and bonuses for the the banking fraternity who caused the problems we now face (throw in Brown and co who also continue to suck the teat of the taxpayer) and our ‘honourable members’, notwithstanding expense fiddles not repaid, continue with their expense frauds e.g.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1334884/MPs-exploit-loophole-profit-second-homes.html
think about it honestly, given a choice of where your taxes go, what would you choose – MPs, bankers or students?
Armed Forces, Border Control, Police, Utility Provision. All the rest by subscription if you use them or personal insurance. You want it? You pay for it.
I want independence – where do i pay for it – using your money, of course,
Let’s get this straight.
All students can get a loan.
No-one pays anything back until they are earning £21,000.
So, the tax payer subsidises those who are not bright enough to get a 21,000 +
job either using their degrees or in other fields completely.
In other words, if you’re not bright enough to warrant being at a university, the taxpayer will fund your pointless studies.
Am I the only one to think there is something wrong here?
The Other Bloke,
You are confusing earning power and intelligence.
Lots of really intelligent postgrads working/researching for peanuts, but love their subject & are part of the knowledge economy (of which Alan Sugar knows nothing).
You are not alone, Sir. I’m totally perplexed.
The PR man Dave has failed utterly to get across the message that this new scheme gives a free ride to all but the richest graduates, who will be the only ones to pay back their loans in full. Others get let off all or some.
Meanwhile, the country’s bleeding to death financially and we need to cut everything (inc, in my view, foreign aid and the NHS, but that’s another matter). We certainly cannot afford to be more generous to students.
Yet here we have created a softer, costlier, scheme than NuLab’s at a time when we can’t afford to spend more, and yet it’s coming across as nastier. (Thanks, BBC.)
And the root cause of the problem – the lunatic aim to get 50% to uni – remains untouched. Scale that back to, say, 10% and we could probably get back to very low personal contributions from students.
The people doing this had far better educations than I ever had, yet they are blind to these contradictions and deliberately went about creating this mad situation.
WTF is going on?
Those who defaced our monuments to our heros and assulted our Future King of England must be arrested, prosecuted and jailed.
Agree about Churchill and the Cenotaph. Charles however can go hang in the wind, treacherous dolt and if he ever became King, I would become a Republican.
How about reviving the old punishments such as burning at the stake or hanging, drawing and quartering? (Even cutting ‘bloodeagle’.) Applied to the political/media class and student rioters this could have a salutary effect on the country.
If you get the chance, listen to R4′s “More or less” episode from today
According to that, the average graduate, on top of the fees will contribute more than 45k in tax above the average.
As to the value of educating Will Straw, I have my doubts
They had one a while back that concluded the figures were very hard to estimate.
I wonder what the figure for a PGCE is like!
I know who the woman despoiling the Cenotaph is. Does anyone have a phone number I can ring to claim my free £1000?
‘She’ is a he / transexual and at Liverpool Uni. Been outed here hours ago, do try to keep up.
Damn, there goes my grand.
she is charlie gilmore son of david gilmore worth £80 million obviously a poor student !!!!
Hawkwind were always better than Pink Floyd anyway.
You make a good point, Guido.
I notice that the yob desecrating the Cenotaph is the private educated son of Pink Floyd band member Gilmour. Gilmour is worth over £80 million so his son must be so deprived. The spoilt brat
We don’t need no education!
Sounds like we need a Guy News Pink Floyd Education special
What a load of pretentious bollocks Pink Floyd is. No wonder wanky middle class students at university find their crap so great. Pure self-indulgent shite.
Meanwhile in the real world, the Eastern powers grow economically stronger and Muslims and the third world flood into Europe in civilisation wrecking levels, while we retreat into a juvenile world of trivia and self loathing.
When the shite finally hits the fan, it won’t be the Gilmours hanging around to face the music.
I’m inclined to agree with that, and in the not too distant future China will be gobbling up the US for breakfast.
All in all he’s just another prick in Whitehall
Quote of the day
Didn’t he end up on the roof of Parliament in some Eco protest a while back? Or was that some other son of a famous person.
Otis, son of Brian Ferry.
Hunting ban.
At least he got into the chamber of the HOC
You can see his pathetic grovelling in the Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1337506/Tuition-fee-vote-riot-Pink-Floyd-stars-son-says-sorry-swinging-Union-Jack.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Charles Gilmour is a History student and he didn’t realise it was the Cenotaph he was swinging from.
Says it all really.
Let’s hope he gets a chance to say it in court very soon. You know where he lives, officer.
Maybe Dave Gilmour should have spent less time lecturing the rest of us with his lefite politics and more time educating his son about the sacrifice thousands of young men gave to this country.
Weirdly he’s dressed like the people I shared a house with about 40 years ago in Portugal Street who got suits and hair cuts just after finals and went to join their daddies’ banks.
Whatever next,Guido ?
Soon you will blog that Eton College has charitable status and pays no taxes.
I’m off to the British Virgin Islands to get my affairs in order
Tax relief on school fees. When did that start?
http://www.varsity.co.uk/features/2023
Charles Gilmour – PRICK.
Named and shamed
Charles Gilmour’s father is 861st on the Sunday Times Rich List with £78m.
Send him the bill for all the vandalism
Pink Floyd should donate all their record sales from 2010 to clearing up central London.
Charlie Gilmour should be used to clear up mine fields in Afghanistan.
Get out my shop!
Chase me
With regret, you’re fired.
And the result of the Tuition Fees division is:
http://fxbites.blogspot.com/2010/12/close-but-no-cigar.html
“He left school at 16 to work as an apprentice mechanic paying taxes which supported Will Straw going to Oxford University.”
Drop the sob story – mechanics can earn a fair bit of money, and those taxes help (or used to help) less well off students through university too. Also, Oxford grads pay tax as well.
Of course, this is just another Thatcherite/Libertarian hobby horse (having to choose between paying what you owe or pissing off to Andorra – oh the humanity!), so I’ll leave you to it.
You could of course also argue that the mechanic is better off than some students who graduate from the ex-polytechnics and find their degree virtually worthless in the jobs market and will find 70 plus grads chasing one lowly paid unskilled job paying around £9000 pa which they could have got at 16 without running up £30k in debt
But that’s the problem – we’re seeing education as just another rotor in the economy when it can be seen as a social good too.
No doubt someone will invoke ‘Golf Course Management’ degrees at this point, but they’re the exceptions (and if they weren’t, they’d not make the papers). A lot of degrees require hard work and no guarantee of a good job afterwards, even the ‘economically useful ones’.
You really want things to be better for young people? Apart from properly funding their education (and what are the odds the government will try to charge for A Levels soon?), you could force companies to actually train young people like they used to, or ensure enough decent jobs are created for them, and then let them choose what’s best for them.
Young people used to pay for apprenticeships as an investment in their future.
Actually you could get on-the-job training and be paid for it too. Those days are sadly long gone.
Nursing qualifications used to be like that. Now student nurses spend all their time in a classroom writing about the importance of diversity in the workplace with the result that when they graduate after three years they are no more use than the previous generation of student nurses used to be after a fortnight.
More shit degrees vicar?
nursey has your medication ready jgm2. Stop foaming at the mouth and swallow it.
Guido, your point is crass and false at the same time. Yes, it is fair if you believe that education is a public good. No doubt Will Straw is going to go on to get lots of high paid jobs and will end up contributing vast amounts in tax over the course of his lifetime, so I’m sure will end up a net contributor to state coffers.
Public servants pay no tax. That deductions line on their pay-slip is just a book-keeping exercise.
It’s a shame they can’t tax spurious logic.
Consider a very small country with only two employees. One works in the private sector and is paid 100K. The other works as a teacher and is paid 100K. Both are taxed at 50%. We’re keeping the maths simple here.
The government has no money so it taxes the private employee 50% ie 50K. The private employee sends off a cheque to HMG for 50K. The government then takes that 50K gives it to the teacher and writes 100K on one line, 50K on the ‘deductions’ line and that is why public sector employees pay no tax.
That 50K of public sector tax? It doesn’t exist. It’s a blinder to kid on to public sector employees that they pay tax. But they don’t.
But then along comes Gordon Brown who thinks the £50K does exist, and he spends it, every month, hiring more and more ‘taxpaying’ public workers. After 13 years of this, there’s a big smoking crater where the nation’s finances used to be.
Or, more accurately, along comes Gordon Brown who pretends the 50K does exist and that if he rigs low interest rates then the interest-only payments on two million quid will ‘only’ work out at 50K a year. So he promptly borrows and squanders two million quid.
He then proclaims the economy has ‘grown’ by 2 million quid from only 200k and so he can now borrow even more money on the strength of his bigger GDP.
Repeat pyramid borrowing until financial armagedon.
Get voted out.
Blame the opposition for financial clusterfuck.
He does have an overwhelming advantage being the son of Jack Straw. Well I would rather not.
Tuition Fees are basically a Graduate Tax anyway.
http://adlib-dibdib.blogspot.com/2010/12/tuition-fees-are-essentially-graduate.html
“Is that fair?”
Who said life was going to be fair?
Life should be fair. If it’s not, it should be made fair. Accepting things as they are is just cowardly.
Yes. Clever people should be penalised and stupid people appointed to positions of responsibility and authority. And not just in government.
I look forward to the day when heart surgeries and hip-replacements are performed by qualification-lite drug-addicts recruited freshly that morning from the Seaman’s Mission and paid in methadone.
Likewise I think good-looking men should be forced to marry really ugly folk like Anne Widdicombe or Susan Boyle so that we end up with more ‘average’ looking kids.
After all. That’s fair.
It’s unfair you’ve not had treatment for your condition yet, either.
Don’t worry; when you leave school and get a job, you’ll look at your payslips and say to yourself, “why the fuck is all this money being deducted?”
And then you’ll become like us.
You assert that equity in life is desirable and possible and can and should be made to be so. That life should be directed to be fair. Who will direct this process? Who will decide?
With the best of intentions you are unknowingly urging totalitarianism on us. You assume that you know what is fair, or that this is self-evident. Alas history has shown this to be untrue. Redistribution by central planning means an end to personal economic freedom. When economic freedom is lost all freedom is lost, as he that does not submit to the planners’ dictat will not eat.
Think I’m overdoing it? Look at what has happened to liberty in socialist states throughout history. All they ever wanted was for life to be fair.
Grow up.
If you weren’t a self-confessed left-wing fuckwit I’d have assumed your post was ironical.
Being a charitable sort of bloke, I’ll assume your moniker itself is ironical and that your true beliefs are the opposite of those you offer here. In which case, bravo!
Politicians? 6 and 2 3s.
Where do you want to start with this? ‘Fair’? Why not try changing Africa, South America, North Korea, India, Pakistan, China any country in the Middle East etc and then come back here and moan about ‘fairness’.
It is cowardly to accept things as they are? And then you complain when the government – which doesn’t accept things as they are – starts the process of change?
“Today there are some families receiving £104,000 a year in housing benefit. The cost of that single award is equivalent to the total income tax and national insurance paid by 16 working people on median incomes.
“It is clear that the system of housing benefit is in dire need for reform.”
George Osborne, speaking in June. He saw something that’s not fair, and he’s changing it. Your complaint with this is what, exactly?
I hear that one of the so called students is having brain surgery. It must be micro surgery!!
idiot
People who headbutt Police truncheons usually are.
‘Tis a pity everyone’s anger isn’t directed at those responsible for the economic mess rather than students, who at least had the courage to put their words into action . No wonder the country’s fucked – far too many sheep
But he’s hiding in Kirkcaldy.
Can’t for the life of me fathom out why there were no student demos when tuition fees were introduced…and then tripled. Ah yes, that’s coz it woz labour wot done it.
twat – this isn’t party political – this is our future – and a poor one it will be at this rate
I fucking hope so. What makes you think I should pay for your future you cretin?
good news day andy coulson will not be prosecuted. the left are having a bad news day with the reation to the riots and now this.
The brother of an old friend has just died – he was a brilliant historian who inspired others. Came from a poor background -supported himself through university by working in his spare time and every holiday doing mundane and seasonal jobs.
Why the hell do these yobs think they are entitled to the rest of us working to support them and their micky mouse courses. Most of them can’t even spell or speak properly, won’t get a job because they fail to mature and think the world owes them a living. Kick them into reality.
221.It is worse that the son of David Gilmour at Cambridge Uni
a) attacked the flag on the cenotaph
b) is at Cambridge but claims he did not know what the cenotaph was
c) lied about the fact that he did not know what the cenotaph was when he probably does know?
or
d) is from a rich family but is protesting that he will need to pay back uni fees for longer if he ever earns more than £21,000 rather than being subsidised by taxpayers in general
And Daddy is worth 80 Million poor little student
What sincere concern from our fat friend Fawkes.
Exactly.
What he’s failed to point out is that over the course of his working life, the intelligent graduate will likely pay many more thousands in tax that the grease monkey.
So yes, the burger flipper should pay tax to support the undergraduate – because he’ll get it all back (and then some) in child benefits, housing benefit, etc. etc.
When will the jealous numptys who populate this board realise that we need an educated population is an investment?
So those on low incomes paying taxes to get it handed back in the form of benefits from the munificent state is a great idea? Have you thought to ask the burger flipper if he agrees with that? He’s supposed to hand over his taxes so that someone else can graduate and Kerrrching! he’ll get his benefits. Have you thought this through?
The Browne report calculated that at £9k per annum, with maintenance loans, the average graduate makes a return of 400% by investing in a university degree. Under these reforms the required investment is a risk-free, non-recourse subsidised loan.
Why the f**k should anyone subsidise this investment any more than it takes to make it RISK FREE?
So on the one hand we have the argument that students are doing useless degrees in golf course management, and on the other when they graduate they all make lots of money.
Golf course management obviously pays well, but not as well as being the product of a charitable status public school. Not by a long way.
Anyone like to take a guess at the total number of people sitting on the boards of directors of all the foreign companies taking advantage of Ireland’s low corporate tax rates?
We also need a population that is capable of discerning value for money. Indeed as the ‘global crisis that started in America and has fuck all to do with me, Gordon Brown’ shows is that despite record education results our muppet population still cannot figure out that borrowing ten times their annual salary for a Barrett Box is exceedingly poor value.
Not that you can tell ‘em that of course. After all, they’re all so fucking clever, and look, here’s a degree from Spunkbridge Polyversity to prove it.
This ‘education, education etc’ has to be the most wicked and cynical ploy for a generation. Hiding numpties from the dole queue, 80% of whom were always going to end up working in a call-centre equivalent because they’re fucking thick, in comedy institutions up and down the country and getting them to pay for it themselves. Hahahaha.
The UK does not need 50% graduates. Half the useless c*nts couldn’t change a wheel or wire a plug or repair a puncture on a bicycle and we’re encouraging the incompetent jackasses to borrow 30K and handing the thick fuckers useless degrees.
Spot on the money jgm2.
Extrapolate education for all, everybody will have (or need to have) a degree.
It’s ‘kin madness.
An educated population? Is that why this country has slid below countries like Estonia in the latest study by the OECD. If kids left school being numerate and literate, I could believe our tax money was being well spent. But they are leaving school barely able to read and write. It doesn’t equip them for a life of gainful employment and paying taxes does it?
Not only that but another study has shown that the extra billions Labour spent on education has been completely wasted as standards haven’t risen correspondingly. It seems the only thing that has increased in education is dumbing down.
Every interview with student demonstrators has highlighted their ignorance and idiocy. One stupid girl yesterday said that if the tuition increases were passed then it would mean the only people going to university would be those “studying science and maths and things like that.” And here’s me thinking that’s exactly the point of going to university!
Yep, Education x 3 has been a monumental fuck-up. We now see the product of thirteen years of NuLab tinkering and general fucking around. These people are not totally thick but they are certainly ill-educated.
A professor on lbc at the moment saying a lawyer is trying to get a warrant out for the arrest of clegg for fraud. Maybe bs maybe not!
A political blogger today accused police of brutality at last night’s violent anti-fees protests as he insisted the ugly clashes were simply a result of protesters’ anger.
Guido Fawkes of the blog site Order,Order, claimed demonstrators had suffered “horrendous” conditions, as they were “kettled” for up to 10 hours.
And he insisted that the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall were just in “the wrong place at the wrong time
There is absolutely no need for any tax payer to subsidise university in any shape or form.
It should be paid for out of the students’ own pockets.
The payment should be made via an initial loan that the student takes out which then only needs to be paid back when your income reaches a reasonable level.
If it’s a government loan, then it should only be given if the person concerned has the ability and intention to complete the course.
There should be no means-testing; everyone, regardless of how rich/poor they (or their parents) are should be charged the same for a given course.
There should be no discrimination regarding who gets charged what for a given course. Just because your parents are barely above the breadline, that doesn’t mean that you should be subsidising someone who’s got parents who are on the dole. Everyone on a given course gets the same benefit, so it should be the same cost. As long as they don’t have to pay it back until their income reaches a reasonable level then there’s no reason for a “poor” person to refuse to go to uni on cost grounds.
If you don’t think a given course will benefit you or doesn’t interest you, then don’t fucking do it.
If we apply these rules then public spending can be cut further, we’ll have a level playing field where EVERYONE with the same ability/potential has the same chances as each other regardless of income/background, and only people who gain benefits from the course need to pay for it.
What part of this is hard to understand?
To me, the suggestion above all seems perfectly fair, reasonable, just, and affordable.
I have no objection to my kids having to take out a loan if/when they decide to go to uni, but I object strongly that we’ll be subsidising via uni/government discriminatory grants and scholorships system the people whose parents happen to be on the dole.
Kelvin McKenzie from the Sun was right on this when he said (paraphrased) -
“When I was a student, people on what would then have been the equivalent of the minimum wage were paying for me to doss around for 4 years so that I could get a higher paid job than them at the end of it. It seems that’s still going to happen here. Is that fair? Is it fuck.”
Privatisation is a tempting option, when you see the balls-up that state involvement produces.
Funny that it also holds true pretty well everywhere else you look in the public sector. (Though I’d exempt police, armed forces and the courts, even though the bits of them that the state touches are in chaos.)
Yet CallMeDave doesn’t seem to have noticed. He’s busy borrowing more and handing out more to students. Why does he think he’s a Tory, I ask?
Good to know Guido’s brother got his taxes earmarked for students. I fear my taxes are going in Overseas Aid to China, India, Pakistan and that some of them are going on support for people from these same countries living on benefits here.
How did your brother get his taxes to help students Guido ?
PS. I am a bit pissed off at £3.2 billion a year in interest charges to provide funds to Lloyds and RBS Zombie Banks
Get the water cannons out, bring back flogging
and Goodwill to all
The Left don’t value manual skills; the Left hates to get its hand dirty.
Prat! So the miners and steel workers are right-wing?
No. The miners and steel-workers were just cannon-fodder used by the left to try and bring about a socialist paradise that would be the envy of the world.
That worked out well. But I see they’re having another go with their NUS cannon-fodder. If the UK could tax idiocy we’d be the richest country on earth.
That’s it – overthrowing the established order is their dream. They’ve gone quite a way towards it via their work since 1997 but now they’re out of power they take to the streets and pursue their aim unconstitutionally.
They have no morality yet paradoxically claim the highest moral ground.
The tragedy is that, just like me, when most of these demonstrators grow up they’ll realise how stupid they were. Education is supposed to be a short-cut to wisdom that avoids the need for direct experience. Doesn’t seem to be doing that for this lot.
Hello Voice of Treason!!!!!
I live in what was once a mining village. Several of my ancestors are buried in various pit disasters not more than a mile from where I sit.
During the 1984 strike I watched union leaders rabble rouse their members who were struggling to feed their families and pay their mortgages while they themselves were on full pay, eating well, living in their newly bought council houses, with their children going to the local independent school. Socialism stinks……..
When I visit the local uni’ and I hear the lecturers spouting left-wing shit and pro-Islam propaganda in their home county accents while ordering their weekly groceries from Ocado and planning their week’s skiing at Christmas.
Forget that is was John Major who did away with poly’s. The true crime against social mobility and British industry was dismantling the grammar school/secondary modern system. Not fees so middle class prick’s can study politics.
So fuck you Voice of Treason,
The fun part of this is that the government is going to reduce the amount they pay to universities for the courses they provide. That means that rather than getting paid per student from the central pot for “degrees” in media studies etc, the universities are going to have to pursuade students to cough up.
Obviously that means that students (or their parents) will think long and hard about the cost and potential benefits.
The win-win-win is that the taxpayer will not have to pay for soft degrees, lazy lecturers will have to work for their money and universities will have to raise the quality of their courses.
And students will think long and hard before they borrow 30K for a degree that is not going to pay its way ie isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
A win-win-win-win.
A win-win-win-win.
Well said Seth.
true; when I left school, most other people in my year went off to uni, hardly any of them had a clue what kind of job they wanted to do, and just picked courses that they thought would be easy or fun.
Then they spent the next 3 to 5 years at tax payers’ expense faffing about on something that never gave them any job/career benefit afterwards.
In the meantime, as I didn’t know what kind of job I wanted to do, I thought “I’ll go to uni if/when I find that I need to, meanwhile I’ll get a job so I can get some experience”.
By the time my mates had finished uni, they had no practical skills at all relevant to the jobs they wanted to do, and I was 5 years ahead of them in experience as I had spent 5 years on-the-job gaining all the skills they were trying to now get.
Kind of agree. I graduated in Chemistry after a full time 3 year degree. When I got a job, some years ago, I realised I was a useless *ucker as I had no real life experience. I spent 2 years on shift on a chemical plant. I learned a lot and have had a good career since then – but using mainly people skills I had acquired, rather than the academic skills I had worked for.
EXTENDED FOOTAGE – riot police officer U1202 punches student in head at london protest
http://www.youtube.com
***In response to requests for more context from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-etV57xZ4_I , we can now upload extended footage which shows the peaceful lead up to the assault.*** This is an exclusive clip from the London march in protest of cuts to Higher Education funding on 30th November 2010,
Guido’s younger brother, who is about the same age as Will. He left school at 16 to work as an apprentice mechanic paying taxes which supported Will Straw going to Oxford University. Is that fair?
———–
Yeah – Will’s taxes will pay for Guido’s brother’s operation at an NHS hospital or for Guido’s brother’s kids to go to university. Tax is not an itemised bill for what you’re getting out of it at any given moment in time (a pretty obvious point, really.)
Things I don’t understand about the riots:-
Should not those students rioting be in the universities attending their courses during term time?
Why do the student leaders look older than me? (Very attractive, young looking 50 something).
Why do they think it is ok for them to destroy property and let the tax payer pick up the bill, when they don’t want to pick up the bill for their education?
Why should soldiers, 18-21, fighting on the frontline in Afghanistan, pay for other 18-21s to riot.
Someone tried to poke my missus last night while we waved at the cheering crowds from our car. Bloody cheek. That’s my only perk.
Whether you agree with the students or not I think it’s brilliant that at last a body of people have the balls to protest. Most other folk, Daily Mail readers, us on Guido’s site, etc, are too lazy or too cowardly to really get up off their arses and do something constructive (or destructive). At least the students did something instead of just moaning. Good luck to them and let’s see many more protests in the future.
I would love to have been there but work got in the way.
Not true, We kicked the fuck out of some students the other day, will be going to visit a couple of the local pubs in Brighton tonight where the vermin hang out.
Fucking students, they cry like little girls even with a little ‘slap’
Aren’t you a little past that sort of thing now, Lord Tebbitt?
I’d have argued with that before Thursday’s performance by the cream of academe, but not now.
Yes, bastards like us channel our protests via the democratic process.
What a bunch of weeds we are.
Civilisation would be so much more advanced if we broke things.
(Irony alert – that is all sarcasm!)
Doped up with anti-west rhetoric, today’s tosser students will be the cause of many of tomorrow’s problems, just as the Jack Straw generation is the cause of much of today’s.
Perhaps social and economic benefit would be maximised if a bounty of say 10p per head was to be paid for the corpse of each riotous student.
If the students’ renal systems still work, their body parts could be removed and sold to wealthy Chinese businessmen. Heart and lungs may also be usable.
the darkside on the hoon…..
according to the mail that is a pink floys guys son (off the centaph)
I think ‘Animals’ might have been more appropriate.
How the fuck can a student suffer a brain injury?
A student rioter received 60% burns last night.On arrival at the local A&E Dept the doctor told the nurse to give the student 4 Viagra tablets.How will that help him asked the nurse?.The doctor replied”it will keep the sheets off his legs”
This is about social mobility, Guido. The hike in fees makes it much less likely that the children of Sun readers, say, will go on to university.
There was more social mobility in the Thatcher years than has been achieved under New Labour or will be achieved under this coalition.
I trust the Sutton Trust on this one. They know how hard it is for state school kids to get to university. Here’s what they said about Lord Browne’s report:
“Our central concern is that the removal of the fees cap – and the differentiation in costs between university degrees that will follow – will hamper efforts to widen access to higher education and increase social segregation across the sector. We believe that the claw-back mechanism proposed by Browne will not, in fact, keep fees down – and there is little disincentive for elite universities, where the access issue is most acute, to charge very high fees. A parallel concern is that those university subjects associated with the highest earnings premiums will see the highest fee rises, making them off-limits for youngsters from non-privileged homes.”
When they do get to uni, however, state school kids tend to outperform their public school fellow students. See http://www.suttontrust.com.
>The hike in fees makes it much less likely that the children of Sun readers, say, will go on to university.
Genetics too.
Ah, Dr Mengele, glad you could make it…
The Students showed themselves to be nothing but Fascist Scum. We should abolish student loans completely. If you want to go to university, pay for it yourself.
I thought it was the police who were Fascist not students. All you lot complaining about students will have a lot to be thankful for them in your later years. The students proved they have balls which is more than can be said for all the anonymous posters on this site (yes including myself). There’s not on poster on this site who is brave enough to put their name and address to any of the rubbish they spout – and if they did it would be a false one!
Well done students and many thanks for your bravery.
the ‘on poster’ should of course read ‘one poster’. Sorry typo error.
All you lot complaining about students will have a lot to be thankful for them in your later years.
Sure we will. The most PC indoctrinated group in society is somehow going to be the saviour of Britain! They’re going to join our ranks over the AGW scam, oppose the EU and creeping Islamification are they?
In a similar vain, I suppose we must be thankful for the Marxist scum that worked their way up through the student ranks in the 60s and 70s and are now in positions of power and influence.
They are just Fascist Scum.
i.e the ‘Big Brother Channel’.
Oh so brave to hit horses with iron bars knowing that nothing will happen to any of these morons.
Their behaviour has decided the issue. What a load of tossers.
You can guarantee there wasn’t one student among them studying anything substantive, just the usual mejia and politics studies cretins.
(complete with their multiple A Star Plus grades in general liebore studies, but unable to read or write)
Four Hundred and First
Better to remain silent and thought a fool, then to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.
The bit I didn’t like was when some protesters threw objects at the police and horses. Poor dumb animals – and the horses could have got hurt as well.
Much criticism being levelled at the students, but watching the footage even the worst were far from being the biggest obscenity of the evening.
Obviously I am alone in seeing a disgusting worthless German drone and his ex mistress, both no more than bloated parasites on the entire UK, driving in decadent and opulent style, arrrogant and bejewelled.
One can sympathise more than ever with the French in 1789.
You could just imagine the madam saying – let them eat cake – if her plastic surgery allows her to get the words out.
No wonder the students were angry. Its a wonder they needed paint and just didn’t throw up on the car. Those two freeloaders are sickening and a disgrace.
When the soviet union collapsed Russia had warehouses full of Phd mathematics professors which they had no use for. British Aerospace found it was cheaper to employ these chaps at $5 per hour than pay the time for a supercomputer.
We should only produce enough graduates for our needs.
Well I suppose you don’t need really clever people in a nation ruled by the Mafia
Higher education should not be used to massage the mass unemployment figures, which it has been since the early 1990s.
It wouldn’t be so bad if they graduated in subjects that enabled them to contribute to society but all they mess around with for 3 years are the usual Arts and Farts.
This has come about because there’s a huge surplus of previously graduated lecturers in the useless Arty/Farty subjects to lecture them and it’s dirt cheap for the Universities to regurgitate this low grade stuff.
No Labs or capital equipment needed, just a copy of the Guardian, a power point projector and a travel expense account.
And it doesn’t take much commitment to dish out or achieve some Mickey Mouse qualification and allows plenty of time for extra mural activities, as we can see.
While we fool ourselves and fill our universities with idiots taking complete bollocks subjects, China is turning out the future scientists and engineers.
It’s like we’ve collectively given up on western civilisation, or more likely it’s being deliberately run into the ground.
The way the rouge element of the students did not help their cause what so ever. A peaceful demo targeting the banks and late goverment should of been also their voiced anger as well as to the goverment in power now.
They should also of highlighted in the demo the plight of the English student as that of the welsh and scotish. For they dont have to pay for their education, yet if a English student went to scottland or wales to learn they would still have to pay. Yet the reverse is not the same, they still get it free.
You have now lost the fight by your actions, the people of this country will look at this demo in a diffrent light and that was caused by the few.
Strange people, you are very strange people indeed.
the biggest joke is that wind the clock forward 10 years – half of these f** wits like the ones spraying graffiti (most of whom are doing pointless degrees that only qualify them to work in Tesco) will probably show up sitting in the labour benches in the house of commons.
More likely on the Tory benches.
NUS are run by Labour scum, always have been, always will be. So fuck off and take that stinking hypocrisy with you.
The starkest farce of the varsity fees
The one that chops reason off at the knees
Is that only the English have to pay
An anomaly that’s as clear as day
Though invisible to the Lib/Lab/Con
Fawkes, all the students and every don
Want to see your nose? It’s there on your face
(The In-Crowd looks in a shadier place)
Contact Girton College
Contact Details
Address: Girton College,
Cambridge,
CB3 0JG
Telephone: +44 (0)1223 338999
Fax: +44 (0)1223 338896
From the picture I suggest the Cambridge History Faculty can be closed and money saved moved to science and engineering depts.
Pussy government should take the NUS to court and claim for damages this bunch of knobs has caused..
A new fucking Union Flag would be a good starting point, along with 6mths for the rich kid pulling it down..
Careful when you pick that soap up, have fun!
As an after thought, CPS unlikely to do anything as usual, so probably easier that a squaddie or ex, have a quiet word at some stage in passing.. Point out the error of his ways…
Careful of all those cctv cameras chaps..
Surely by now you know that you may not criticise the Left. They obfuscate, they steal and they embezzle. But Brutus is an honorable man. Brutus Blair was honest, Brutus Brown was honest and Brutus Millipede is honest. So they’re all thieving shitbags but at least they were electected in a free and fair elect… oh oops sorry I forgot the Unions.
Silly me.
I’ll shut up now and vote for Comrade *insert party member here* now.
I’m off to the camp now sorry for being awkward!
The students should be ashamed of themselves , Bein used and misinformed .
I propose a counter protest .
Only problem with a counter protest is the fact that the people that could, would and should counter protest are all too busy working during the day to pay taxes which then allow these Left Wing/Socialist/Communist halfwits to go and protest that they want more of our taxes to allow them to sit on their arses doing shite degrees. Get a job or pay for your own FE.
Gilmour probably has the hump. I recall reading an interview with his dad in the Telegraph, about 7 years ago, in which he stated that he would buy his children a two bed flat when they left home and that they would get no further financial assistance, and that when he died he would leave his fortune to good causes and leave nothing to his children! Gilmour junior is unlikely to want to support himself by using his education to get a proper job, coming from a luvvie backround doesn’t really equip you for that ghastly experience!I bet he is a member of the Liebour Party, and was hoping for a nice tax-funded sinecure somewhere.
Roger Waters of Pink Floyd has strong feelings regarding the armed services.Young Gilmore may not be receiving a present from him this year.Shame he was’nt so brave opposing Labours Iraq war.All in all he’s just another prick in the wall.
Anyone can see that Gilmour junior is a lightweight who drank one too many shandies.
Is it fair that an apprentice mechanic pays for Will Straw? Probably, because the apprentice has the choice to go to uni too if they want to.
I believe education is a good thing and should be available too all free, up to degree level at least once. I’m 32 and got my degree paid for so should the young today.
It’s a generational thing, Dave believes he can stamp all over the young, pensioners (who are the richest generation) haven’t been subjected to such harsh cuts.