October 15th, 2010

Anglo-Irish Bondholders Should Take the Losses
Is the ECB Forcing Ireland to Protect German Investments?

Anglo-Irish Bank did not represent a systemic risk to the Irish economy, it wasn’t a high street bank like AIB or the Bank of Ireland. If it had been allowed to go the way of Lehmans the only losers would have been shareholders and bondholders. The Irish state stepped in and nationalised a bank that was basically run by crooks lending to property speculators. The Irish people are taking losses that should rightly have been shouldered by bondholders.

Every child in Ireland is being bequeathed a huge debt at birth to protect the interests of foreign, mainly German, bondholders – why? Guido was once a bond trader, it was always understood that sometimes the bond issuer defaults. That is the risk investors take.

So why is Dublin’s political establishment so keen to protect foreign investors at the expense of future generations? Guido has obtained the list of foreign Anglo-Irish bondholders as at the close of business tonight. These are the people whom Dublin’s politicians really seem to care about:

Between them they hold Anglo-Irish bonds with a face-value of €4,034,756,880. Shouldn’t they take the hit rather than future generations of Irish taxpayers? Capitalism is a system of profit and loss, they took the risk of investing in Anglo-Irish Bank. Is the Irish government under pressure from the European Central Bank in Frankfurt to protect German investors?


  1. 1

    “Is the ECB Forcing Ireland to Protect German Investments?”

    Does the Pope sleep on his back?

    Is Dolly Parton Catholic?

    Is the Atomic number of Caesium 55?

  2. 2
    purpleline says:

    I think they are protecting Ireland as an entity. If they ever want to get a bond away again then they must protect these bond holders.

    However, I wonder if the bond holders were British whether the Irish would not just fold em

    Ireland needs to come back to the Punt and peg to sterling at par

  3. 3
    Gordon Brown says:

    I’m available to give economic advice.

  4. 4
    pompa per calcestruzzo says:

    Am i the only one here who hopes Ireland crashes and burns?

    Fucking dump!

  5. 5
    Red Ed - the Union Manchurian Candidate says:

    It happened in Amercia

  6. 6
    Deka Investment GmbH says:

    We’re on the list?

    News to us.

  7. 7
    Empire Loyalist says:

    Nick Ridley was right. The Euro is just a German racket.

  8. 8
    Southern Softy says:

    Profit is for the banks. Loss is for the customers.

  9. 9
    Why can't our newsreaders be like this? says:

    “Finnish newsreader Kimmo Wilska carried out a rather amusing prank that unfortunately got him oh-so-very-fired.

    As you’ll see from the clip below, as he speaks over footage of beers being poured, the camera quickly cuts back to the studio to show Kimmo, beer in hand, the amber nectar dribbling out of the top.

    He swiftly puts the boozy beverage down, and carries on with his report. A joke, of course, but his bosses failed to see the funny side, promptly giving him the boot.

    Known as ‘Finland’s Barry White’ because of his sonorous voice, a Facebook support group has already sprung up, defending Kimmo for a joke he promises wasn’t meant to be aired, and was solely for the crew’s amusement.

    After checking out the footage below, we’re not so sure, but consider your induction into the mad anchorman hall of fame assured, and trust us when we say your 3-foot-wide Mantastic badge already in the post.”

  10. 10
    Sleepless in Kirkaldy says:

    Is that near Awessex?

  11. 11
    !! says:

    Three cheers for Geert Wilders though

  12. 12

    You hold USD EQUIV 1.756 Million of the EURO MEDIUM-TERM NOTES 2004-25.6.14 FLOATER COUPON 1.689 TERM 06/25/2014

    Do you want to know what day you bought it?

  13. 13
    Killroy says:

    You could ask the same question about why should UK taxpayers sub the losses of UK banks ?

    Truth being that the establishment rules OK in every country be it a democracy or dictatorship.

  14. 14
    caesars wife says:

    er wow , nicely put . Looking at list I am wondering if investment vehicles are linked , but to what ?

    So did bonds play any part in RBS , Northern rock and HBOS and yvette run out of chamber question and subsiquent bailout .

    Wonder if this is what is on Ken Clarks mind

  15. 15
    Your New Overlord says:

    But we’re not doing capitalism Guido – we’ve decided on a new economic model. We’re going to call it “Socialism for the Rich”!

  16. 16
    Poor Bill says:

    Caesium 55 ? No idea. Is it ?

  17. 17
    Deka Investment GmbH says:

    That’s a pretty shit coupon for junior debt.

  18. 18
    Capitalist Tool says:

    Whatever these bailouts are about, it certainly isn’t free market capitalism. Looks suspiciously like plutocracy, or should that be kleptocracy?

    Any bank or institution that was going to fail should have been allowed to fall. All we have done is delay the reckoning.

  19. 19
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    In 100% agreement. Why do the people let the politicians get away with it? It beggars belief.

  20. 20

    If you want to know more about the power of bonds I recommend reading the book about Drexel and Michael Milken (PBUH).

  21. 21
    nell says:

    ECB bought Eu24.5billion of Irish Bonds in August. according to two reliable witnesses.

    A spokesman for ECB declined to comment. Not very open then about their actions and processes?!

    And where does the ECB get its money? I hope none of it comes from us the British Taxpayer!

  22. 22

    That arguably would not have been the case if they hadn’t stepped in to guarantee the bank – it would have been a normal corporate failure.

    Lehmans did not undermine the US government’s credit worthiness, but if Uncle Sam guaranteed a bank and then pulled the rug out it would.

  23. 23
    Old timer says:

    Where are the IRA when they are needed?

  24. 24
    Poor Bill says:

    While we’re at it, what is ‘Dark Matter’ ?

    ‘Scientific Fairy Dust’ ?

  25. 25
    Heinz says:

    N0. A German Racket is SCHLÄGER

  26. 26
  27. 27
    nell says:

    socialism for the rich = bliar’s third way!!

  28. 28
    Empire Loyalist says:

    Exposed to debt.Their day has passed.

  29. 29
    Denis Macshane says:

    Gisa tenner.

  30. 30
    Mr Sploot says:

    Ken Loach is making a new movie about them, called “Superheroes”.

  31. 31
    Sandra says:


    Well they do give some of it back to the British taxpayer in the form of regional development grants (providing you put up a sign with the EU flag on it) & of course in secret loans to the BBC.

    Mad, is’nt it?

  32. 32
    mockmayor says:

    Although strangely that would chime with Michael Hudson’s comment that:

    “’Join the fight against labor, or we will destroy you,’ the EC is telling governments. This requires dictatorship, and the European Central Bank (ECB) has taken over this power from elected government. Its “independence” from political control is celebrated as the “hallmark of democracy” by today’s new financial oligarchy. This deceptive newspeak evokes Plato’s view that oligarchy is simply the political stage following democracy. The new power elite’s next step in this eternal political triangle is to make itself hereditary – by abolishing estate taxes, for starters – so as to turn itself into an aristocracy.”

  33. 33
    Jimmy says:

    Not that I would dream of suggesting for a moment that the news that bonds were sold to investment firms is anything less then earth shattering, but is this the “scoop” you were trailing earlier?

  34. 34
    Garreth says:

    Is this sub-deb or senior debt?

    Presumably, its sub, given that €4bn is the current figure for outstanding sub debt.

    The Irish Government has already indicated that it will not be paying par value on sub debt.

  35. 35
    The Gold's Under the Mattress says:

    Cheers Deka my old mate, I now know where NOT to go if I want any investment advice or financial services.

  36. 36
    Darn Kraut says:

    In case you missed it, there was a piece buried in the news recently about how the price Germany had to pay for France under Mitterand’s blessing to reunification was to enter monetary union – in other words, the German economy and taxpayer were to effectively guarantee the credit-worthiness of French peasant farmers and associated Portugese / Irish / Spanish / Italian layabouts.

    Recently, German voters and taxpayers have slowly started to realise just how big a bill they are potentially going to be landed with to bail out their feckless neighbours, and are thinking it is all starting to look a bit like what happened at the end of WW1 where reparations to France took the German economy to the brink and, well, we all know what happened next.

    Unlike other countries, German voters and taxpayers have been letting their politicos know in no uncertain terms what will happen if they try to put the German taxpayer on the hook for even more, with the result that they are now using their economic clout to start leaning on their debtors to prevent them trying to wriggle out of paying back what they owe.

    And good for them.

  37. 37
    Colman says:

    Are their a few big holders or are they widely spread? It’s not clear that a default would have been that significant spread over that many institutions in that many countries.

  38. 38
    13eastie says:

    Why don’t you let us wait for your book instead?

    If the publisher’s spiel is anything to go by, it is sure to be a hideously self-indulgent steaming pile of ‘last-wording’ shit:

    Product Description
    Gordon Brown’s book will offer insight into the events that led to the fiscal downward spiral and the reactions of world leaders as they took steps to avoid further disaster. The book will also offer measures Brown believes the world should adopt to regain fiscal stability. Long admired for his grasp of economic issues, Brown’s book will be a work of paramount interest during these uncertain financial times and is sure to attract intense media coverage. The book offers a unique perspective on the financial crisis as well as innovative ideas that will help create a sound economic future and will help readers understand what really has happened to our economy. Mr Brown has this to say: ‘We now live in a world of global trade, global financial flows, global movements of people and instant global communications. Our economies are connected as never before, and I believe that global economic problems require global solutions and global institutions. In writing my analysis of the financial crisis, I wanted to help explain how we got here, but more importantly to offer some recommendations as to how the next stage of globalisation can be managed so that the economy works for people and not the other way around’

  39. 39
    Bail out a Bank, it's the Perfect Christmas Gift says:

  40. 40
    G says:

    It seems to be both French & London, with German institutions & some Swiss.

  41. 41
    thick Trisha says:

    I heard they get all their money from Hugo Chav and Stalin and that ‘itler bloke.

    Innit mad!? ++giggle++

  42. 42
    nell says:

    Yes indeed Sandra Objective 5b’s and all that . Ineffective, miniscule, EU grants for non projects like redundant farm buildings and stuff.

    Of course if you go and look on the continent , EU objectives 1’s and 2’s ,you’ll find EU funded billion dollar marinas and that sort of thing, and some very wealthy europeans!!

  43. 43
    Empire Loyalist says:

    Jimmy is chickenshit.

  44. 44
    nell says:


    Is there something wrong in explaing how EU grants are unfairly allocated?

  45. 45
    Twitterlugs says:

    its a piece of cake to create a tiger economy if you throw money at all the right mates and soak up billions to do so in the process…if the loans down the road go south…so what plenty more where that came from until the train hits the buffers.
    Sickeningly cynical reality of Ireland.

  46. 46
    Stocker says:

    Y the Fook is the crooked x MP Jacqui Smith on any questions 2 nite?

    Looks like crime does pay

  47. 47
    City Shitters says:

    You’re a bunch of City Shitter Spivs.

    We wouldn’t expect you to have a clue what you are doing.

  48. 48
    nell says:

    They’ve been eclipsed by Real heroes/human beings called the Chilean Miners.

  49. 49
    Empire Loyalist says:

    The Hun is either at your foot or at your throat.

  50. 50
    Angle Irish Bankster Chief living it up in $4.5 Million House says:

  51. 51

    Expenses cheat Piggy Bill Wiggins STILL not fired despite Dave’s explicit promise to do so. Will Dave keep his word ? Or will Dave’s Eton chum get special treatment ?

    This one will run and run and run and run and run.

  52. 52
    Bob Crow says:

    Even an arch capitalist like Fawkes, agrees with me that those who ran up the debt should be responsible for settling the account, not the ordinary hard working men and women who currently stand to bear the burden.
    See you on the barricade, comrade!

  53. 53
    nell says:

    She’s obviously still angling for that plum job at the beeb.

    These people are shameless aren’t they, always looking for another means to earn a fast buck with as little effort as possible.

    the macshanes, uddin, jacquismith, moran, devine……..

  54. 54
    AbleTheSpace Monkey says:

    According to Mills, hydrinos are the bulk of dark matter. Unlike normal matter, hydrinos do not have excited states, i.e. they do not emit light, unless they are being formed or ionized. Over 90% of the visible universe consists of ordinary hydrogen, and according to this hypothesis the remaining matter in the universe (90% of the total mass of the universe) is hydrogen in stable states below that of the typical ground state.


  55. 55
    caesars wife says:

    “I want to explain how we got here” cant wait slightly worrying what the next stage of gloabalisation could be , perhaps he will answer how debt helps high unemployment modern economies

  56. 56
    caesars wife says:

    I cant get over the “yaahhhh absolutely” lines looks like she has had full persona makeover into sloan ranger

  57. 57
    nell says:

    Are you still planning to march out into the M25, to create a traffic blockage from an accident, ahead of those pensioners?

    Oh no excuse me! You were hoping those pensioners were going to march out into the M25 ahead of you, weren’t you??

    Brave man!!

  58. 58
    Your New Overlord says:

    Bliar was a fucking amateur. We’re going to do it properly.

  59. 59
    streamfisher says:

    Media whores the lot of them, I had a parrot and all it did spake was widdicombe.

  60. 60
    Bob Crow says:

    I’ll reserve you a place at the front nell.
    Fast lane.

  61. 61
    RIP says:

    Very sad news. Actor Simon MacCorkindale has died aged 58 after suffering from cancer. He was a terrific actor. I’ll remember him best for the Agatha Christie classic Death on the Nile. He was also a staunch lifelong Conservative.

  62. 62
    Hugh Hefner says:

    What’s the difference between a bond and a bond trader? A bond matures….

  63. 63
    wickedfairy says:

    yes indeed, calling from Dublin, we will be there, fook em

  64. 64
    eeekkk says:

    hey Guido – Can we have a list of domestic Irish investors in these bonds.


  65. 65
    Engineer says:

    A question was posed about Andrew Marrs comments concerning bloggers. Apparently, La Smith doesn’t like bloggers. I wonder why?

  66. 66
    Anonymous says:


    As per usual you miss the point.
    The Irish establishment are rotten. One party rules.

    Bond holders are small relative to depositors. Depositors are the Irish establishment. These are the tax exiles who fund the political class.

    The sage

  67. 67
    nell says:

    No. You have the wrong idea. You’re the leader , you must lead from the front.

    I and Sir William Waad already have a pact to take his caravan to the road side with my BBQ and watch whilst you carry out your plan. I am bringing the food – freshly caught salmon with garlic and lemon butter and homemade chocolate mousse. He I hope is bringing a decent chilean white wine to toast real chilean heroes.

    All you need to do is just tell us when and where you are going to carry out this act of faith, which you heralded at your conference, of walking into the middle of a raging motorway!!

  68. 68
    13eastie says:

    Robbing British banks.

  69. 69
    Old Irish taxpayer joke says:

    Can you tell me how to get out of this mess?
    Well, i wouldn’t start from here.

  70. 70
    Sir William Waad's man who does says:

    If the caravan’s rocking, don’t bother knocking.

  71. 71
    eeekkk says:

    ‘Guido has obtained the list of foreign Anglo-Irish bondholders as at the close of business tonight’.

    Guido might tell us about this sentence. Are domestic irish bondholders left off this list? On another list? Removed from this list? Are there any?

  72. 72
    The 12th Iman, stuck down a Well, just south of Tehran says:

    Look you lot, if i’ve told you once i’ve told you a hundred times the Irish political class are the biggest load of elephants bollocks, dragons breath, gibbering mad, gobshite hypocrites on this earth. This Stinks. May the fleas of a thousand camels itch about their groins and nether regions.

    Now i have spoken. Will someone please send down a bloody rescue capsule. I’M GETTING REALLY PISSED OFF WITH THIS PLACE!!

  73. 73
    Engineer says:

    Slightly OT, but on a deep economic subject, our old friend Juliet Samuel has interviewed an investment manager witha very pessimistic view of the West’s capacity to help itself. He feels that the entitlement culture will stultify economic growth, handing competitive advantage to the emerging economies. It isn’t comfortable reading, but it is salutory.


  74. 74
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    I would actually go one further and question the differentiation between so-called high street banks and other banking institutions. I am thinking especially of Northern Rock. To rely essentially on one source of funding (securitisation) would have been unheard of for a bank just two decades ago. Bankers would have to spread their risk, not only in their lendings, but in their treasury function as well. I worked for some major institutions before heading up a smaller one myself. I raised £250m in the mid 1990s and took pains to ensure that it was from a variety of members in a syndicate, from different parts of the world, and that they each were happy with me, not just leaving it to the lead bank to sort out on my behalf.

    I was appalled to see Northern Rock operate as a one-trick pony in this respect. In my opinion, they should have been allowed to go to the wall. To rescue them was to signal that any bank could run itself without taking regard to continuity of funding. Depositors would be covered by the normal safeguards but bondholders and shareholders would, in the main, pay for the lack of rigour applied by the management.

  75. 75
    random moonbat says:

    Because the majority of the people are too busy being bribed with their own money whilst squeezing out more kids to increase the size of the bribe.

  76. 76
    nell says:

    I know I shouldn’t but……..


  77. 77
    Fra Duffy says:

    All that 1916 and 1921 hoo ha – only to sell the nation’s sovereignty out to the World’s Banks. My goodness those dissident boys must be getting confused in their underground economics lessons….

  78. 78
    Great stuff says:

  79. 79
    Ubendem says:

    I wpuldn’t recommend hitting a stationary Bob Crow at 70 mph, if i were you.
    It’ll make a terrible mess

  80. 80

    Poor Bill: dark matter is an educational establishment construct: what you need to look into and understand are “dark pools”. Worth a quick google.

  81. 81
    Nelson's revenge says:

    The final management was with the previous gov who also were unable to take the sensible option of authorising an increase in interest rates in 2004

  82. 82
    nell says:

    Well he’s right abut the failure of keynesian economics …The …’spend-taxpayers money-….spend- ….create non jobs….- spend ….economy slowly subsides down the drain!!

    The gordon curse killed that policy in 2009 ……………….

    Not sure he’s right about investing in gordon’s African frontier!

    I think the gordon curse is also killing that one as we speak….

  83. 83
    Engineer says:

    It is often said that the financial world, especially the speculative parts of it, have a viscerally competitive culture. In your experience, CRMM, has that culture become sharper over the last decade or two, and has that dulled the relative integrity of the old culture of a gentleman’s word being his bond? Also, is there now insufficient fear of the consequences of failure?

  84. 84
    nell says:

    We, who is we?

    I presume you are talking about militwit !!

    He’s already a multi millionaire.

    Don’t waste your energy!!!

  85. 85
    Hamish Macbeth says:

    I gather Gordon Browns book about the financial crisis is out in November – that may tell you some more….

    Or then again – forget it !

  86. 86
    nell says:

    ?Guido? Again!!

    Am I saying something antiGuido?

    I don’t think so!!

  87. 87
    Ronan Duffy says:

    The State is a dump. The State has become the enemy of the People. We the People are really quite a nice lot! Many of us are waiting for the burning and the green shoots. Come and visit….

  88. 88
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    I have been out of it too long to comment with good knowledge, Engineer, except as an outsider again. I feel you are right though, especially in your last sentence. Another of the problems is specialisation. People become expert in one aspect of the business but are totally divorced from the rest of it. It is someone else’s job to perform treasury, for example.

    The so-called experts just dish the stuff out. They may be viscerally competitive, as you point out, but their knowledge base is often very shallow. (Aesop’s fly on the axle-tree of a chariot exclaiming, “What a dust I do raise!” comes to mind.)

    There is a lot to be said for the older idea of having had a hand oneself in every aspect of the business, at one time or another, as I had over an extended time. There are areas such as legal where it might be impossible for the average person. I had a grounding in it from just after school and even managed to correct learned counsel where they were going wrong more than once. But it was more than just work for me, it was a passion. One cannot expect even 10% of people to be that interested. Nothing beats real in-depth knowledge in my view although I also prefer days when the gentleman’s word was his bond.

  89. 89
    Nelson's revenge says:

    Or the higher up the chain of command the fear of failure deminishes so who sets the an example of propriety.

  90. 90
    nell says:

    The ECB bought Eu24.5billion Irish Bonds in August 2010.

    Who authorised that??!!

  91. 91
    Age Concern says:

    Fuck me, Engineer. Have you ever considered cutting out a line or two, and phoning for a pair of East European hookers to enliven your sad life?

  92. 92
    GnosticBrian says:

    Yes. You need, periodically, to revise your table.

  93. 93
  94. 94
    Osama the Nazarene says:

    In my opinion, they should have been allowed to go to the wall. To rescue them was to signal that any bank could run itself without taking regard to continuity of funding.

    This is what Mervyn King was initially trying to do until the yanks sat on him.

  95. 95
    Snoopy says:

    Oh look… Goldman Sachs is on that list.

    Why is it that whenever there’s something dodgy and crooked, Goldman Sachs appears?

  96. 96
    Atlas shrugged says:

    So why is Dublin’s political establishment so keen to protect foreign investors at the expense of future generations?

    Good question, which myself and many others have fully answered time and time again already over the last few years. I simply can’t be bothered to go through it all over again tight now, however I will leave you all with this food for thought.

    Socialism=Capitalism=Communism=Fascism=The Establishment.

    You=me=mindless idiots=reluctant debt slaves=victims of one hell of a gigantic scam.

  97. 97
    400+ re-elected MP's says:

    We give you choice! What more do you want?

  98. 98
    Wing Commander says:

    100% with you on that one.

  99. 99
    Google is your friend says:

    Think they were all following your 2008 advice, “it is now the case that Irish banks now represent the safest place to deposit money in Europe,”

  100. 100
    X factor politics says:

    Very sad news. Someone of no importance whatsover, also died today, but not being a celebrity Conservative voter, do you give a fuck?

  101. 101
    Shock! BBC news website publishes positive story about coalition says:

    “Ministers have agreed the schools budget for England and are to claim schools will be protected from across-the-board cuts, the BBC has learnt.”

  102. 102
    Ronan Duffy says:

    20 years ago, a bank manager would have been fired for running an overdraft with another bank. Here in Ireland, bankers became property players while still running their branches – moral hazard?

  103. 103
    Osama the Nazarene says:

    Is the Pope a Born-Again Christian?

    Does Dolly Parton sleep on her back?

    Caesium Crispies (snap, crackle, Kaboom!!!)

  104. 104
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    But Mervyn King was already hamstrung. The regulation and supervision functions had been taken away from the Bank in 1997. He was driving a car with only an accelerator pedal and with the brake and clutch pedals operated by someone sitting in the back seat. Further, this back seat auxiliary driver was engaged in emptying the ashtrays out of the windows so they could not see whether, or when, their pedals needed to be applied. This was a car devised by Gordon Brown to end all transport problems for good. Predictably, the multiple pile-up that resulted was unprecedented in modern times. It is not clear even now whether the road will ever be properly cleared again so that normal transport can resume.

  105. 105
    AC1 says:

    Gordo “Fuckwit” Broons book “It’s Not all my fault, but I made things much much worse” comes out in November.

  106. 106
    AC1 says:

    Third way is a euphemism for Feudalism.

  107. 107
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Same in England (and Scotland) for my entire experience. I had no idea that lower to middle management were ‘freelancing’ in Irish banks. Completely unacceptable.

  108. 108
  109. 109
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    A revolution may be the only solution.

  110. 110
    AC1 says:

    The value is ZERO.

  111. 111
    AC1 says:

    Totally coincidentally.

    A MARRied journalist paid for a lovechild that wasn’t his!

  112. 112
    AC1 says:

    What a Man(imal)!

  113. 113
    AC1 says:

    That’s probably optimistic. Lots of people and not just chavs have got used to living off OPM.

  114. 114
    AC1 says:

    Don’t forget BASEL2, which lowered reserves.

  115. 115
    The lowest common denominator says:

    But it won’t be the revolution you envisage. No libertarian free market nirvana of money talks, more a Ron and Reg society of do what you’re told if you value those kneecaps.

  116. 116
    The lowest common denominator says:

    You have Jeff Randall’s wisdom for after the event foresight.

  117. 117
    Gordon Brown says:

    When Daniel Craig decides to stop playing Bond, I’d like to play him. As you all know, I’m a ladies man and I’ve saved the world many times. I’ve got a licence to thrill audiences. You should all see my golden gun.

  118. 118
    Number 7 says:


    You forgot the Greeks (Bearing gifts!).

  119. 119
    AC1 says:

    Some good news!


    Prosecutors of Dutch MP Geert Wilders Ask Court To Acquit on All Charges

  120. 120
    Number 7 says:

    From the “man” who sold 400 tons of gold at @200 dollars per ounce – currently @1200 dollars per ounce – tosser!

  121. 121
    Number 7 says:

    Not if your car has an english numberplate!

  122. 122
    William Hague. The perfect gent says:

    ‘Appen, i’m a bit of a Ladies man myself.
    Do you want examine my wifes gynecological records?

  123. 123
    Number 7 says:

    Wrong – Thick as SH*T

  124. 124
    Number 7 says:

    Not if you’re driving a HumVee.

  125. 125
    Margaret Moran says:

    My clunge has dry rot.

  126. 126
    Hawking,Dawkins et all are just as capable of making it up as they go along than any religious Zealo says:

    Dark Matter is the new improved “God Of The Gaps “

  127. 127
    Anonymous says:


  128. 128
    He's a traitor says:

    That Marxist propagandist and apologist for Muzbots, Galloway, is on Talksport radio. He does allow people with opposing opinions to call in, but he tends to cut them off when they beat him on a point. Call in and give the traitor an earful!

  129. 129
    Anonymous says:

    Who the hell do you think is buying UK gilts!

  130. 130
    Christy says:

    There are scams and scams and we are seeing one of the biggest ones in history unfolding before our very eyes re: the financial ruling class.
    Politicians are chicken feed to these guys who have a totally different agenda in mind.
    The ordinary hard working people from whatever walk of life are nothing more than pawns in this game of world dominance,for me it’s sad to see but as I am at the wrong end of the scale I won’t see the end result,which thankfully I am glad of,but I shudder to think exactly just what my grandchildren are going to experience in the fullness of time.

  131. 131
    Lady Cutlass says:

    Squeeze the Paddies until the pips squeak – it’s the only language they understand!

  132. 132
    Susie says:

    My husband drew my attention to something in this morning’s FT Long Table…

    Apparently, the banks have tried to foreclose people’s homes in the States, but some of them are standing firm and asking to see the paperwork.

    The mortgages have been packaged as CDS’s sold onto trusts owned by shareholders — but here’s the funny bit, the banks can’t produce the paperwork (or the title deeds). So no-one can prove ownership.

  133. 133
    Susie says:

    And saved Gavyn Davies’ bacon. Oink oink.

  134. 134
    Susie says:

    They are lovely people, the Irish. They’ve been shat on for centuries by their big and powerful neighbour — just as we are beginning to be getting used to being shat on by our big and powerful neighbour, the EU, now.

    We’ve got a lot to learn from them.

  135. 135
    My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:

    The entire banking world is a crock of dung,they lend money into the economy for a profit,with a house its easy most retain value or increase worth,not the same thing at all,you purchase a car (overpriced) the finance adds maybe 16% to its cost and the first turn of the key costs you 10%,therefore the only loser from a purchase is the buyer,a 20k car costs 2320 and the day you buy it is worth 18k.The dealership has your banks money and the bank has your promise to repay 2320.thats good business for the two corporations.
    Now the 50 year old house I bought in 1996 was worn out,I refurbed it and surely now it should have fallen in price as it sags again,not a bit of it,here in the economic wastelands of birmingham it stands at 270k,Im glad but it is a fu*cked piece of gerry building.I can see where the housing minister is coming from,direct line state the rebuild cost is 100k,then that surely is the value,fu*k sentiment

  136. 136
    Susie says:

    Don’t forget the 30+ Labour MPs in the NE who would have had a lot of angry constituents… they were too thick to notice that NR’s offshore Granite nicked all the profits and left them with the debt.

  137. 137
    My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:

    robbing irish banks

  138. 138
    My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:


  139. 139
    My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:


  140. 140
    albacore says:

    Erm, what cuts would those be, then?
    “After studying immigration and population growth using government data and forecasts, MigrationWatch estimates 550,000 extra school places will be needed by 2015 at a cost of £40bn.
    That figure would rise to £100bn by 2020, and £195bn by 2035, raising questions as to whether enough places can be provided, it adds.”


  141. 141
    My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:

    Indeed Northern Rock should have been despatched by an halal slaughter man,just for the diversity angle (Labour)

  142. 142
    My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:

    Socialism=corporatism not capitalism,how many mergers can you remember being blocked since 97

  143. 143
    My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:

    That would be humorous but for the fact that Ireland runs a high tax,high cost of living economy with none of the benefits to the person of the EU

  144. 144
    Atlas shrugged says:

    Yes the bastards certainly did give us a choice of sorts, and we still have some still remaining. For exactly how much longer, I have no way of knowing.

    The first and most important is to finally wake-up by wising-up, or stay in complete and relatively blissful ignorance of our common situation.

    For without knowing the full facts of the matter you can not make sensible choices.

    If a sizable proportion of the common people where notably more aware of who has long since been running the ENTIRE show and why, then they would be at first perfectly horrified and then extremely angry.

    However mindless anger rarely gets you anywhere worth going to, unless you have an addiction to prison food, anal sex or a profoundly held death-wish.

    Conservatism has nothing intrinsically to do with Capitalism. A Capitalist system controlled by a privately owned and controlled World Central Bank is highly centralized MARXIST COMMUNISM by DEFINITION.

    A fact that I am sure the likes of Cameron, Blair, and above all Brown are perfectly aware of. It is a mistake to believe that these types of people are somehow more then a little thick. Greedy, selfish power crazed psychopaths very possibly, but in no way uneducated fools.

    All are servants of our Corporatist System. Whether they call themselves left, right, centre, Green, Red, Yellow or Blue.

    Surely it stands to reason that the World could not possibly be the living nightmare that it most clearly is for the vast majority of its human inhabitants, if the controllers of The Worlds Central Bank did not wish, and had not carefully planned it to be so over a long period of time.

    My fear is that they do indeed intend to one day make this world a far more rational and above all peaceful part of The Universe. I fear, because I know every bit as much as they do, that this will not and likely cannot be achieved until the population has be culled down to less then a tenth of its current size using one extremely nasty method or another slightly less nasty one.

  145. 145
    Groucho says:

    Pretty much. Dark Matter means “it appears that we don’t understand gravity at all but we are too embarrassed to admit it”

  146. 146
    Groucho says:

    The Beano Annual 2011 will be on the bookshelves at around the same time. Probably a wiser investment than Gordon’s effort.

  147. 147
    Desperate Dan and his Cow pies says:


  148. 148
    money grabbing cunt says:

    er, The Times pay wall registration, currency conversion

    £1 = $2
    £1 = €1.50


    £1 Times 0 = 0

  149. 149
    woops! says:

    deka fucking decked

  150. 150
    Charlie Libdem says:

    Fuck it would have been funny either way …

  151. 151
    Kimmo Wilska says:

    Not fair, I only did cheers once!

  152. 152





  153. 153
    The EMF says:

    So it was Green not Brown?

    Personally I think its all Balls.

  154. 154
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Oh? Do I?

    Listen carefully, troll, you might learn.

    The only thing that I know for sure is that I know nothing. Now banking that in your brainbox, let us look at what I did:

    1. I left the banking and finance business when sub-prime became the rage. I said it would all go wrong. It lasted four years longer than I thought but the history is there to see. I was told that I was old fashioned and out of date at the time I left, by people just like you.

    2. I became concerned about a bubble in the housing market. I sold my prime sea-view property in Sussex and bought another at one third of the cost in view of the Adriatic. This was in May 1987.

    3. I was concerned about the unnaturally high value of sterling and converted all my sterling into various other world currencies at that time. I got US$2.03, €1.5, AUD2.28, CHF2.38, etc for my pound.

    Now most folk here are very interested in money. It is difficult to make and even harder to keep afterwards. So they will be most interested in your very sound advice, I am sure.

    Tell them how to have “before the event foresight” that is better than my “after the event foresight”. They will love you for it. But remember that you are only ever as good as your latest deal.

    One more thing, punk. Consistent good luck is as good as skill. Are you feeling lucky? Are you?

  155. 155
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Correction: This was in May 2007

  156. 156
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Wrong again. I did my libertarian thing. I emigrated …. just before the crash. I am talking about those who did not. What alternative to eternal wage-slavery (of paying off other peoples’ debt) is there for them if they want to stay at home? You hold all the answers, tell them. They are mystified as to how 29% of the electorate STILL thought that Gordon was a good option, as am I.

  157. 157
    Poor Bill says:

    Oh yes, those girls in the Corres, squeak squeak

  158. 158
    Anonymous says:

    Bank bailouts = corporate theft, aided and abetted by sycophantic government.

  159. 159
    Goldman Sachs says:

    Rest and be thankful.

  160. 160
    I am Sick says:

    Erm, you look in the wrong place nell, try the unelected cartel in Brussels.

  161. 161
    I am Sick says:

    Bailouts are about what Mussolini called corporatism, or as we might call it fascism, the merger of state and corporate interests. The EU is essentially a fascist construct, built around the founding principles of that rather repugnant creed, member governments all sing the same mantra, ours included.

  162. 162
    Sheila Dikshit says:

    My name’s Sheila Dikshit and I’m a Commonwealth Games legend. And I make a cracking cucumber raita.

  163. 163
    David Cameron says:

    My Party are the pessimists and Ed Miliband’s Labour Party are the optimists.
    I give a cast iron guarantee on that one

  164. 164
    Ben 'buggering' Bradshaw MP: ex BBC cunt, and right on massive arse-bandit of socialisms says:

    Oh dear I feel so sorry for the Pikey scum

  165. 165
    IKEY THE PIKEY says:

    Only the Irish would spell Bank of Ireland ! AIB

  166. 166
    Red Ed Militant™ says:

    We’re all being optimistic together

  167. 167
    I like Cameron but he needs to take action says:

    Why hasn’t Cameron kicked out Piggy Wiggy like he said he would?

  168. 168
    Precious Bongo: putter of shot says:

    Hello there ma friend yes

    Ah too am a winner of the Commonwealth Games yes

    Ma 12 foot shot was a glorious triumph yes for the whole peoples of Nigeria yes

    I also run a boiler rooms operation yes and I work with the many Nigerian princes whose moneys have been impounded in the bankings yes

  169. 169
    Precious Bongo: putter of shot says:

    Cannot these mens sell off their armaments of the IRA yes to raise some moneys yes

  170. 170
    Mark Steel, the most unfunny of the marxist comedians says:

    Yes but this debt means even more gypsies, elth tourists, and Pikey scum will come to Britain to parasite off the efforts of Bangladeshis and Indians

    You didnt think of that angle did yer you cocksmoking fuck twat

  171. 171
    IKEY THE PIKEY says:

    I see Abbott and Costello Have decided to give yet another seven billion quid of OUR money to the scrounging classes
    When will these thick brain dead little rich boys understand that they will never be able to buy the scum class vote
    and in keep giving away OUR money they will find themselves totally unelectable once again
    If you play with your children speak to them show them things etc then they will all grow up with a certain amount of knowledge instead of leaving them to fend for themselves whilst Wayne and Waynetta are upstairs breeding some more benifit fodder Cameron you really are as numb as a piss stone

  172. 172
    He's Spartacus says:

    “Anglo-Irish Bondholders Should Take the Losses”

    YES YES and YES!

    Otherwise rewarding failure. MORAL HAZARD!!!

    Once again, the prudent purchasers of CDSs look set to lose out as politicians try to gerrymander votes with future tax revenue; bribing the idiots with their own money.



  173. 173
    Precious Bongo: putter of shot says:

    Yes ma friend i shall be bringang mah boiler rooms operations to the Lewishams soon yes

    My 11 childrens will be joining me yes

  174. 174
    Don't ask stupid questions says:

    Jolly boating weather,
    And a hay harvest breeze,
    Blade on the feather,
    Shade off the trees,
    Swing swing together,
    With your bodies between your knees,
    Swing swing together,
    With your bodies between your knees.

    Rugby may be more clever,
    Harrow may make more row,
    But we’ll row for ever,
    Steady from stroke to bow,
    And nothing in life shall sever,
    The chain that is round us now,
    And nothing in life shall sever,
    The chain that is round us now.

    Others will fill our places,
    Dressed in the old light blue,
    We’ll recollect our races,
    We’ll to the flag be true,
    And youth will be still in our faces,
    When we cheer for an Eton crew,
    And youth will be still in our faces,
    When we cheer for an Eton crew.
    Twenty years hence this weather,
    May tempt us from office stools,
    We may be slow on the feather,
    And seem to the boys old fools,
    But we’ll still swing together,

  175. 175
    yalleriron says:

    It seems a pity that after all the bloodshed and anguish to get Britain out, followed by the Irish Civil War, and by troubles of one sort or another ever since, the people of Ireland should have been sold out to the Germans. It’s the fault of corrupt and greedy Irish politicians and financiers in the first place, but whenever there’s been trouble in Ireland, the Boche has has been involved in some way.

  176. 176
    IKEY THE PIKEY says:

    Because he is out of his depth
    like all politicians they are only there for the easy life, free money and a massive ego
    never having lived in the real world they dont know the first thing about changing it
    most have never had a real job and they think that the one they have as an MP entitles them to rip off the rest of us tell lies at election times, steal money then give it back”because they did nothing wrong”and still keep their so called job
    fuckin scum to a man !

  177. 177
    Anonymous says:

    Hopefully this includes where to buy bombs and guns.

  178. 178
    Screw the establishment says:

    Screw them too.

  179. 179
    the beast of clerkenwell says:

    Hun Padraig H

  180. 180
    Double Whammy says:

    ‘We’ are!

  181. 181
  182. 182
    the beast of clerkenwell says:

    Hun Padraig Hun Hun Hun
    The bog trotters have always been in the pocket of the cabbage munching square heads
    Allowing u boats to refuel, flying the swastika in dublin
    Smarmy backstabbing chris huhnes to a man, a shit hole that turns out nothing other than priests, nuns and shit tarmac laying caravan dwellers
    I hope that the f uckers all starve to death again

  183. 183
    fuck the banks says:

    Perhaps if banks didn’t feel so entitled to other people’s money as well they might have a point.

  184. 184
    Seismic demographic shift says:

    Banking crisis or no banking crisis, your grandchildren will be living in times more akin to Britain c. 420 AD.

    Collapse of central authority, alien occupation of parts of the country, maraudering bands, people fleeing; the effects of the largest population shift since the end of the western Roman empire will not be pleasant.

  185. 185
    fuck the banks says:

    You’re certainly a ladyman you fucking khant.

  186. 186

    Well some are Irish based – like Pioneer – but without doing a lot of legwork can’t answer that, you could do some Googling yourself.

    Just because they have an office in Dublin doesn’t necessarily make the investors domestic.

  187. 187
    Anonymous says:

    As long as the muzzies fuck of this will be one less thing to concern oneself with.

  188. 188
    Anonymous says:

    Serves them right for joining the Euro.

  189. 189

    As above – some are Irish based – like Pioneer – but without doing a lot of legwork can’t answer that, you could do some Googling yourself.

    Just because they have an office in Dublin doesn’t necessarily make the investors domestic.

  190. 190
    Anonymous says:

    “European Central Bank” & “Frankfurt”; Two terms that directly threaten national financial sovereignty.

    The elephant in the parlour being “The European Union”…

  191. 191

    Correct at the time – they were the only banks with an explicit government guarantee from a AAA sovereign credit – that is not in dispute.

    Whether it was the right thing for a government to mortgage future generation’s tax receipts is in dispute.

  192. 192
    just another London enclave hell hole resident says:

    You would have been forgiven if you’d typed that in shouty letters.

    They shout too. Nothing worse than trying to get a few extra winks on the bus to work in the morning than having a booming NIGERIAN sitting nearby. YOU UNDERSTAND YES.

  193. 193
    Hague the vague says:

    The EU don’t like it when their satellite states go wobbly.

  194. 194
    Anonymous says:

    Yeah, but the value of your pile is partially related to the relative demand for similar properties as well as the available supply in Birmingham.

    Not to mention the underlying land value (itself a factor of precisely where your house is in relation to everyone elses’).

    Cars are generally pretty fungible, millions of each model are churned out each year, they’re updated much more frequently & finally they deteriorate even faster than a ’60s house. So, they depreciate faster too.

  195. 195
    Anonymous says:

    Surely people are less interested in Gordon’s interpretation of pastevents than future ones? Such as when he’ll next be in the open with clear views from up to a mile away?

  196. 196
    Anonymous says:

    MI6 undercover agents?

  197. 197
    Anonymous says:

    Alcohol purchasing restrictions in place, state liquor authority, (alleged) wide scale smuggling/home brewing – I can understand why the TV management might be anxious not to piss off the Finnish government…

  198. 198
    Anonymous says:

    Maybe the burden of ‘serving the people’ should end in 10 years of ostracism – or where deserving life long exile in Antarctica with only a videotape of the 1984 film ‘The Thing’…

  199. 199
    Anonymous says:

    Anything smaller than an armoured Transit will end up looking like something from ‘The Matrix’ (light vehicle meets immovable object)…

  200. 200
    Passing Thru says:

    It couldn’t happen here, could it?

  201. 201
    Anonymous says:

    Isn’t Jeff Randall working for the Labourgraph?

    I was quite successful in dabbling in shares in the ’90s – I simply did precisely the opposite to every action advised in print by the (then) Torygraph’s City editor…

  202. 202
    Anonymous says:

    Do not feed the troll. If he can’t generate heat & light then TalkSport will replace him (before the almost inevitable libel action?).

  203. 203
    Anonymous says:

    Where are any of the ‘four million’ “illegal” firearms when you need them?

  204. 204
    Anonymous says:

    At least they were given the opportunity – and used it – to reject the Lisbon Treaty. But they were coerced into approving it subsequently – which is probably a more accurate foretaste of the future of the EU.

  205. 205
    DB says:

    Like we were kicked out of the ERM on black wednesday because the self interested Germans were keeping interest rates to high so they could invest in East Germany where they had gone mark for bloody worthless mark after unification.
    No I think we paid billions for that, all for EUssr harmony and so the Germans could split up Yugoslavia by starting wars by there old allies in the East and say its good for business.
    Get rid of the Regions, give England a parliament without the klingons and get out of the EUssr

  206. 206
    Maximus says:

    Clearly impossible for the Finns ever to enjoy a drink, since the moment they are inebriate, the Soviet Communists invade again with their hammers and sickles. The Finns invented the Molotov Cocktail in repulsing an earlier invasion — an excellent recycling of used bottles, but rather indicative of the means used to get thru long winter nights.

  207. 207
    Anonymous says:

    “Greed is good”, saith Gordon Gekko and Guido.
    But the consequences of institutionalising your creed, Guido, is fraud.
    Your moaning that it was not supposed to end like this reveals a touching naivety, and watching you get an education is better than reality TV.


  208. 208
    My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:

    They dont,AIB is allied irish bank until 73 other was known as royal bank of ireland

  209. 209
    DB says:

    So the North Koreans are well ahead of the western world after all.

  210. 210
    My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:

    If you think their bad you wanna see the fuckn neighbours,drunken,coarse,ill-eduacated,loud,impolite,immoral,tattooed uncultured arseholes and that is only the females the male is worse but tack on a superiority complex (1966) and a huge proportion are gayers to boot

  211. 211
    Baldrick says:

    sounds like gobbledigook to me, i’m just putting out Mr black Adders toxic investments for the tax payer to pick’ Mr B say’s it all started Gordon’s watch

  212. 212
    Baldrick says:

    There is no great volt its fictitious, they just print it. where is the Bank of England’s great volt

  213. 213
    I really must protest says:

    Yes but the english dont think it is fair game to strip the slates off someones roof just because they were on holiday and “we tort te huse was empty sir”
    or to climb into your gardens and steal anything that isn’t bolted down
    they really are bottom of the barrel in the human life form
    where’s hitler when you need him ?

  214. 214
    Seismic demographic shift says:

    The ‘alien occupation of parts of the country’ was a reference to muslims.

  215. 215
    Spellcheck says:

    My Other Cars Not A Prius Either:

    Correction for you. It should read ‘they’re’ not ‘their’. However, you sound like one of those you are commenting about so perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised.

  216. 216
    OldSoldierSahib says:

    That’s the idea, you can make Cuckoo Clocks and dream about Empire, those were the days oh how we laughed.

  217. 217
    Our currency is backed by RBoS shares says:

    { Gordon Brown’s book will offer insight into the events that led to the fiscal downward spiral }

    You mean to say that Flash Gordon will finally admit that his policies of increasing indebtedness and pointless spending, followed up by bank bailouts to ‘fortress credibility’ (cover up the mess) caused Britain’s massive debt problems.

    Answer. No. this is Gordon Brown we are talking about afterall.

    Brown who sold the nation’s gold, and point RBoS shares…Jeremy Clarkson….a one eyed Scottish Idiot……(apologies to any other one eyed Scottish people who are not idiots for any offence caused by the comparison with Calamity Brown….)

  218. 218
    Our currency is backed by RBoS shares says:

    the Irish voted against the Lisbon Treaty….

    and the EU and local business cliques poured money to get them to produce a different decision the second time around…plus the Irish politicians, and the Irish media who were overwhelmingly biased….

    There is a lesson to be learned.

    Arse-lickers will keep pushing their centralist proposals….and the EUSSR is full of such types…

  219. 219
    Anonymous says:

    How come after every financial blow-up, there’s always a long list of German investors? These dumb-fucks seem to be left holding the paper every time. Maybe the German government needs to take a firmer hand with these idiots rather than trying to cover up their stupid mistakes.

  220. 220
    Osama the Nazarene says:

    Thanks for the vivid description in this matter, am only a poor amateur in this area which affects all of us., but its interesting at the flack he got from City and US financiers for daring to “empty the ashtrays” of the “moving car”.

  221. 221
    Our currency is backed by RBoS shares says:

    The Irish banks all own shares of each other.
    sort of like the US before the Sherman Anti-Trust Laws were enforced.

  222. 222
    Our currency is backed by RBoS shares says:

    Not really.

    He never tells the truth in any case. It all a face saving exercise.

    The Duffygate scandal caught him with his pants down…..

  223. 223
    Holemaster says:

    No coverage in Irish media yet.

    We are the new East Berlin.

  224. 224
    M'lud says:

    It all goes back to their childhood upbringing. They never learnt to play pass the parcel.

  225. 225
    smoggie says:

    Poor little off-topic tat can’t keep up.

  226. 226
    Drooling Imbecile says:

    Its simple, Sell fucking Pikeyland to the EU Fascist fucking superstate pal

    The Fascist scum unelected parasites can then relocate all the fucking scum TB infected gypos and similar scrounging fucking degenerates from Turkey/Moldova/Bulgaria/Lewisham, Slough and fucking Romania there pal

    Better still gas the fucking lot with fucking Hydogen Cyanide as they fucking step off the banana boats pal

    Europe needs fucking living space pal

    Up ere for thinking, down there for fucking dancing pal

  227. 227
    Self-flagellation ur us says:

    … And quite why the Irish want to stay in the EU defeats me…

    Oh, I see they don’t. It is only Cowan and his cronies who does.

  228. 228
    smoggie says:

    Never you mind what it is Jimmy. Your only interest here seems to be making bitchy comments against the host. He must have humiliated you in an earlier life. You need to grow up and move on.

  229. 229
    Drooling Imbecile says:

    Follow my lead if you want some resolution to the problem of noisy fucking Nigerian bus using scum pal.

    Fill a small fucking plastic bottle of pop with Hydrogen Cyanide in fucking liquid form pal

    Before you get off at your fucking stop break the gel seal you’d have fucking placed over the bottle rim and fucking leg it pal.

    Fucking third world jallopy wouldn’t even get to the next fucking stop before London fucking Transport’s got a bus full of Nigerian corpses or nerve damaged fucking vegetables on it’s hands pal

    Jobs a goodun pal

  230. 230
    picador says:

    Are you getting much interest in this from the Irish media Guido?

  231. 231
    richardcalhoun says:

    The Irish would be mad not to demand a default !!

    But then again they don’t take a lot of manipulating, remember the Lisbon Treaty

  232. 232
    Oswald Spengler says:

    “Dark Matter” is Cosmic Phlogiston, pulled out of Steve Hawking’s backside when the numbers came in telling him that The Big Bang theory doesn’t work.

  233. 233
    richardcalhoun says:

    They voted for the Lisbon Treaty so it’s all quite democratic

  234. 234

    When I am the British Libertarian Governmnet’s Principal-Secretary-of-State-for-War-and-Foreign-Relations, Ireland will be invited to rejoin the Union. They are our brothers and sisters.

    This having been done, the European Central Bank will be moved upon by our people: its files will be seized, and dissected. Any kind of foreign conspiracy, therefore, involving the defrauding of Irish People to pay for Eueo-investors’ bad decisions will be unravelled to the beginning. The debt borne by Irish tax payers, now part of the Union, will be deleted, and transferred to the afforesaid investors in AIB.

    If they quibble, I shall threaten to bring the boys back from Afghanistan to camp outside the ECB’s offices.

  235. 235

    Agree, as a second choice course of action to my recommended one above.

  236. 236
    richardcalhoun says:

    Is the ECB Forcing Ireland to Protect German Investments? … YES !

  237. 237
    Dan says:

    TwentyMajor might get on to this one when the drink wears off!

  238. 238
    AbleTheSpace Monkey says:

    Where you see capital investment in Africa, African socialists (such as Obama) see western crypto colonialist exploitation. Witness Uganda’s counterproductive shakedown of Tullow oil, for example. But we do have an overwhelming sense of state entitlement in the UK, Our Lords, our MP’s, our troughing quangocrats all suck greedily at the neck of value creating productive private sector workers, as much as lifestyle single mothers and PC non jobsworths.

  239. 239
    Anglo Irish Tank says:

    Guido Fawkes,

    But DO NOT reveal the source to the Dublin authorities. DO NOT. Stay away from the Irish authorities.

    Because the source of this document will be jailed, and the UK government will extradite him to Ireland. He will end up bankrupt, and his family will leave him. The objective of the Irish authorities is to keep everything under wraps…for the sake of your source, say nothing. The Irish authorities will break him, and he will end up sounding like a complete nutcase. And then nobody will believe him.

    In any case, there will be an internal inquisition to shut him up. If he is Irish, he will suspect it in any case.

    And the Irish authorities will want that list to be taken off the net. You will threatened with legal action leading to bankruptcy.

    You have been warned !!!

  240. 240

    Does anyone have the list of Irish Bondholders? That is the bigger, more important list. This list is probably the reason why alot of us have not jobs at the moment.

  241. 241
    John Porter says:

    Dark matter is more like Kodak film — no! Actually, dark matter is like the new Coke; it’ll be around forever!

  242. 242
    Ooooter says:

    I think it must be a mix of sub and senior – 4.2bn was the outstanding value of unguaranteed senior, and i think 2.1bn was the outstanding value of sub debt. Guido definitely mentions subordinated debt below in his ‘conversation’ with Deka. Guido, any comment on the mix between sub and senior on this? I assume no govt guaranteed debt is included?

  243. 243
    Fra Duffy says:

    “No coverage in Irish media yet. We are the new East Berlin.”

    Typical Irish over-exageration – the new Tirana more like…

  244. 244
    Lord Protector says:

    Last I heard they were part of the devolved government, enjoying pigging out on big salaries and lovely expenses. Funny how a car and a driver can tame even the most hard nosed provo.

  245. 245
    Lord Protector says:

    Yes, but the supply of cars is not subject to the arbitrary whims of local government or the amount of credit available to buy them.

  246. 246
    Anglo Irish Tank says:


    Fascinatisch ?
    Genau ?

    Did you ever watch Irish state television ? (with a Sicilian accent for the Irish Mafia ?)

  247. 247

    Wish ECB would stick to cricket

  248. 248
    smongy says:

    Poor little retarded mongy knows Dave is a lying cun’t.

  249. 249
    Anonymous says:

    Why aren’t the Irish media covering this?


  250. 250
    equity abhors a Maxim says:

    I doubt that our own Miss Snuffy-Birbalsingh will get as much attention paid her by our ‘creatives’.

    If anyone in the UK deserves a documentary made about themselves and their challenges, she does. Any takers?

  251. 251
    Fra Duffy says:

    “Why aren’t the Irish media covering this?”

    Check who it is that owns the Irish Media, and then check their political links and their links to the bankers and property developers. They are tame and compliant for a reason.

    The entire ediface may be about to come doewn however, with the news that former Anglo director now says that the company acted in full knowledge of the Financial Regulator and the Central Bank. If this is true; the country/government is finished. Already their are twenty thousand wild horse roaming the land; it willonly get worse.

  252. 252
    equity abhors a Maxim says:

    A lock-up garage a short walking distance away from here was recently found to hold enough guns and ammo to start a little local war. You might be similarly ‘privileged’ in your area.

  253. 253
    Shirley Knott says:

    Lebensraum? Hydrogen cyanide? I hope you’ve stepped into irony mode.

  254. 254
    No metaphor here, move along please says:

    Usual protocol in these cases is to use the thrusters to manoeuvre the bird into a controlled atmospheric burn-up, otherwise you’re left with a zombie drifting uselessly in space.

  255. 255
    No metaphor here, move along please says:

    Irony is a dish best served cold.

  256. 256
    Garreth says:

    The sub debt is trading at approx. 30c on the euro, so its isn’t worth zero.

  257. 257
    Garreth says:

    Without knowing whether or not the firms listed are sub or senior debt holders, this entire thread is bullshit.

  258. 258
    Garreth says:

    Because its bullshit.

    1. Who did you think owned the bonds? The Irish Kitten Lovers Association?

    2. The status of the debt isn’t specified. If its sub-debt, the par value is not being repaid.

  259. 259
    Golemxiv says:

    Mr Fawkes,

    I wanted to say thank you.

    I thought out of politeness I should let you know that I have used your list of Anglo Irish bond holders in my own blog. I had been trying to find without success.

    I went through your list and worked out who owned who, who was based where, what they say they do and what assets these bond holders handle.

    If you are interested you can find it at http://golemxiv-credo.blogspot.com/

    In return I put link to your original post and note that a number of people have followed the link.

    Thanks again for fibnding and posting the list.

  260. 260

    Hi Guido
    This is a fascinating and intriguing list. Up until now may of these things were suspected and within the market known but they had not been disseminated to a wider market/audience.

    I have written on the economics of Ireland’s position many times in the last few months. It would appear that her government has been unwilling or unable to get on top of things.

    “For example the Irish Finance Minister Brian Lenihan was very critical and indeed scathing of Standard and Poors when it suggested only a month ago that total aid to Anglo-Irish Bank might reach some 35 billion Euros. In a fairer world Mr.Lenihan should now apologise. however in reality we are left in a situation where Ireland’s government has reduced its own credibility just at the moment it most needs it. It is very hard to see now how Ireland can credibly claim to be able to reduce her fiscal deficit to 3% of GDP by 2014.”

    I have also explained why Gross National Product is far more important for Ireland that the often quoted Gross Domestic Product. this is important is it is lower. For those interested in the economics of this my site is at http://notayesmanseconomics.wordpress.com

  261. 261
    Anonymous says:

    This post is muppetry of the highest order. Bailout is due to the crooks lending to property speculators that you refer to being in the main members of the Irish political and business elite. Can’t have all of them going to the wall…

    I am sure the creditors (inc. the Germans) very much want to get paid. But they are not the reason for the bailout.

    Well done for letting the crooks and speculators off the hook for the bailout in the name of some Euro-conspiracy frothing.

  262. 262
    Shane says:

    What rubbish by Empire Loyalist. The same can be said of the thieving Brits.

  263. 263
    O'Coonassa says:

    Still not a whisper of any of this in the Irish Press and they’ve all certainly been alerted to it by now. Look here http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-05-18.985.0&s=brian+lenihan+anglo+bond+holders#g987.0.r

    He got up and said in the Dáil that the list you have just doesn’t or cannot exist. What do you make of that?

    I’d love to know if you’ve been approached and asked for the dox by any Irish media outlets.

  264. 264
    GraemeMor says:

    What needs to be leaked is the list of IRISH investors. I believe that Fianna Failers had a lot of their personal money tied up in Anglo and are selling out future generations of Irish people to keep their own investments / pensions safe.

  265. 265
    Conan Drumm says:

    Hold on, I see a section of Goldman Sachs – Goldman Sachs Asset Management Intl – is on the list. Weren’t Goldman Sachs one of the Irish Government’s advisors on the banking bail-out?

  266. 266
    Holemaster says:

    Yes they were Conan. And so were Rothschilds.

    Treason anyone?

  267. 267
    O'Coonassa says:

    Certain editors in the Irish media are claiming that they haven’t been able to authenticate this story. Can Guido confirm or deny if they’ve actually even asked to examine the documents? Or if they have examined them, then can Guido suggest why after having done so, they may consider them not to be authentic?


  268. 268

    Dunno, if Guido was a Dublin financial journalist he’d be calling those bondholders and asking them if the list was correct. If rhey need Peter Sutherland’s phone number at Goldman Sachs… he has talked the firm’s book quite a lot hasn’t he?

  269. 269
    JDC says:

    Sorry to break up the party lads but a few things worth noting:

    Ireland has no manufacturing base worth a damn, nor are we internationally renowned for our engineering, design or other forms of technical innovation. We have precious few commodity class natural resources. Agriculture can’t compete with the higher productivity and lower wages of warmer, poorer food producing countries (at least not until oil prices skyrocket permanently). Our exports are primarily of the cultural and service varieties. Let’s not even mention the construction industry!

    A big chunk of the economy has for several years now been in financial services, a sector well known for mercenary behaviour and high mobility of capital. There’s a lot of Irish infrastructural spending tied up in the IFSC including the education, training, and experience of that workforce. It took a long time for those capital flows to be enticed to pass through ireland and the economy can’t afford to lose that revenue or suffer the other associated costs.

    The sad truth is that if there is to be any hope of an economic recovery, the Irish state has to bend over and take whatever bully-ramming the ECB and big institutional investors want to dish out. And yes, you the taxpayer will be mopping the floors after! Bankers have long memories and whether individual citizens like it or not, as a nation we’re now addicted to consumerism and true believers in the fairy story that is perpetual economic growth. If we want to keep having things like cars, electricity, computers and clothes, we’ll all just have to shut the fuck up and take it!

    That is unless the people of Ireland want to take radical steps to restructure the economy or dispense with established capitalist economic principles. My guess this isn’t going to happen. From what I can see in Dublin and Kildare, many people persist in moaning about the present while daydreaming about the good old days of shopping in Dundrum and two holidays a year on the never never. Those days are never coming back and the sooner we all admit it the better.

    We can all complain that the politicians/banks/ECB sold us out, but every citizen knew the country was corrupt and kleptocratic – nobody gave a shit as long as the good times continued to roll. Take a look at these venal, degenerate, faces, one look is all you need in most cases: http://www.fiannafail.ie/people/listing/
    Well guess what, these are the TDs we voted for, so we got what we deserved.

    Our people have a long and proud history of dissent, something the current emasculated generation love to pay lip service to. There are many inspiring examples of organised, non-violent civil protest. The current one that springs to mind is the current binman’s strike in Marseille. If the rubbish collection, cleaning, food service and buildings maintenance for Dublin Castle and Dail Eireann were suddenly curtailed, change would rapidly ensue. Our political masters are hardly going to clean their own toilets now are they?

  270. 270

    Just to add to my previous post it would appear that problems are mounting in Greece too and I have written on that subject today. Of course, having to further support Greece is about the last thing Ireland needs, so there is a danger still of contagion.Anyway here some of my thoughts the rest is on the website link above.

    “So if you factor the problems with tax collection with the way it appears that Greece has improved expenditure by not paying the bills you get a completely different picture for Greece’s fiscal situation, from that given by her government. By the time that Eurostat issues its report on Friday it will be plain to everyone that at the end of the current aid package Greece will be even more insolvent than it appeared as recently as May 2010.”

  271. 271
    KKK says:

    So its a goldschlager? Dont mind if I do…

  272. 272
    Anonymous says:

    Why haven’t the Irish media reported this?

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