A Clear Conscience
In a move completely out-of-place for someone who can put their head on the pillow confident in the knowledge that they hadn’t relied on information from tortured terror suspects, David Miliband decided yesterday he would return to the FCO to “look over some papers”. But of course he isn’t worried about anything.
The last thing the ailing front-runner would have wanted is to have his murky involvement in this matter splashed across the Guardian, again, but it seems they have decided not to make an enemy of him forever by holding off with their attack until its almost too late for any real impact to the leadership vote. As ever Guido will take a balanced approach and encourage fair play about it dredging up a political figures past. Just as Labour suggest that Andy Coulson should be held responsible for what happened on his watch with their now well-worn line, is David Miliband lying or incompetent?
All the relevant papers are shredded.
That’s what you think, c*nt…
Don’t worry, Mr. Fawkes Sah!
Relevant documents removed for ‘safe keeping’ as requested, Sah!
You can put your cock away now.
Both the Milibands are a bit thick.
Miliband Major as Foreign Secretary was a complete joke.
Who’s laughing now?
“Miliband Major as Foreign Secretary was a complete joke.”
What’s your beef? The current one is as bad.
“The current one is as bad.”
Does he also do strange things with bananas?
Your guess is as good as mine ducky.
To be fair, I hope they are. Sometimes it’s necessary for governments to do things which may be a bit dodgy; regardless of political party. Binyam Mohammed = British? Yeah, right.
drip, drip, drip on Biyams head
while he is tied to a metal bed
if he dont tell us about bin laden
we will cut him up and make him a maiden
instead we could take him to Guantanamo Bay
where he can work, rest and pray
until he wakes up to the realisation
that he can now sue for compensation
they are still at it
but don’t tell the mongs as it will spoil their fun
This country has this all arse over tit!
They have been benefiting from information taken from torturing people. Torturing someone to get to the truth is simply not possible. Torturing someone into a confession (for something that they may or may not have done) is possible, but completely counter productive and is immoral and wrong. As a means of getting truth and protecting lives, It does NOT work!
We have people posting here who’s first reaction to a suspicion of involvement is to jump to torture to extract confession rather than trying to establish truth.
This leads to people giving whatever information they think the torturers want to hear, just to make the torture stop. It is rarely, if ever, the truth.
There have been many innocent people forcefully kidnapped, flown to some foreign hell-hole and brutally tortured to confess to plots, (often plots that could not ever possibly have been real), because someone-else had been tortured and made up the name of someone else to blame, just to get the torture to stop. Then that newly kidnapped person also makes up bullshit to get their torture to stop, and on it goes.
IF torture worked as a means of establishing truth, THEN it might be possible to excuse it in limited cases, but it DOES NOT!
So we have a situation whereby predominantly the innocent (and very few guilty people) are tortured and then when we get a conviction, their human rights kick in and we cannot touch them.
I propose that we turn the system upside down and rely on the rule of law, better intelligence networks, better policing, better investigations and then when legally and properly and justifiably convicted of terrorist offences, THEN we torture the bastards to death!
The ass-backwards way we are doing it now is simply a huge recruitment sergeant for terrorists. It simply does NOT work!
+1
Mr Ned has a valid point. Although I would prefer torturing before and after until death. These people are not plucked from random obscurity for the merriment of our security services. Leaving suspects alive causes many problems and debates. Think Gibralta, and the SAS managing suspected bombers. Dead people do not talk-poor Dr Kelly. No one still brought to justice.
Can’t see what all the fuss is about. The boy did the right thing.
I agree but I still think Milli D is a liar and incompetent
The question is, Guido, have you got something on Millipede Sr’s involvement in torture that you are keeping up the sleeve of your doublet?
Please don’t keep us in suspense!
Even the Guardian is leading on Millipede’s involvement already!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/sep/21/mi6-consulted-david-miliband-interrogations
And what a surprise – Millipede must have lied!
With a clear conscious, M’Lud, being of ‘Sound Mind’….. we, the Peoples of Busted Blighty, declare the ‘Demise of the the ‘Liarbor Party’ by appointing Ed Miliband to lead the said Liarbor Party into mutual self-loathing and collective mutual m*sturbation….!!
(Oops… mes abject apalogeez……)
http://tinyurl.com/3753p8b
that is somewhat disturbing
He’s a true mong.
His face is all wonky, eyes are too close together and his eyebrows look like they were stolen from a Romulan.
Hahahaha…
All rather suggestive of in-breeding.
The perfect leader for Labour, really.
Oh shit !! The truth will out, if not through Wikileaks, through Guidoleaks…
Did ayone see the Pope’s Westminster Hall address. That fucking twot Brown was sitting next to Blair and as the Pope came in a people were looking at him with awe, respect or whatever the left footers call it. Brown was looking around gurning and smiling as though he was in a porn shop. The man is a fucking village idiot with a truly horrible vicious side. He seems to have put his head above the parapet a few times recently and obviously feels he can come out to play again.
Priceless. What a true mong that bloke is.
What the feck is that all about? Is that an edited put job or the real thing and why only seven seconds?
This is 51 seconds worth of the same interview. And where have you been Arthur, Mars?
GB (0:23): “you can follow me round the regions as I talk to people throughout this country”
Not one of your brightest ideas. None of them ever were.
They are all fucked one way or another , Dave M =Tortue and the heir to Blair ,
Ed M = Climate change scam , Ed Balls = Mcbride , bully , fucking up the education system, Andy B =Staffs hospital, Diane A= Hypocrsy over schooling .
Seems to me diane is there best choice
Refusal to use a spell checker is sheer laziness, young man!
Ooo young man!
Which browser do you use that has a spell cheque her?
Eye can’t sea your point.
I’m not clever enough to use ‘fancy dan, open source’ browsers like Firefox. I use the idiot proof ‘Chrome’.
only an idiot would use spyware like that.
It’s just as well you use an idiot proof browser, you fucking nit picking knob jockey.
That’s possible, Marchamont. Tell me, how do you manage to be smug and a conspiratorial googlenut at the same time?
doesn’t really matter who they have
everything will be about the cuts and the economy next election
You forgot to mention.
Diane Abbot = the supidest woman in the United Kingdom.
I shall direct my husband towards reading the statement above.
Am on my way home
http://twitter.com/SarahBrownUK/status/25158600723
where to? the fucking looney bin
To Magda’s I bet
Crowthorne?
Cheers for the warning, I’d better scarper.
PS: I nicked yer turkey-baster. Snifferiffic!
Why do we never see Gordon and his business partner Ms Macauley together in public anymore? Did her contract expire on May 11 when they left Downing Street?
and why does nobody care but mentalists?
Miss your glorious leader do you?
It their any one of these Labour cockmeisters who have any sense of honesty and decency?
Ask Dave C. He has picked up their baton remarkably efficiently and should be able to tell you.
Did you have a Labour education by the way?
Ah, but remember, just keep repeating the ‘carefully worded’ statement which is our ‘line to take’ on the issue.
“Britain does not practise torture. Britain does not condone torture.”
Of course, that leaves a loophole you could drive a coach-and-horses through in respect of using ‘intelligence’ that someone acquired without your consent through torture, but we will let that pass, eh ?
That would be the same as condoning torture.
All very interesting, but does he have the right to revisit FCO papers now he is no longer in charge — or even in government? That seems a bit odd to me as I thought the convention was that what is done is done, the papers are filed away for 30? years and that a new government cannot access previous papers. But I might be wrong of course.
Next time send all detainees to the Labour party conference to listen to my brothers, Balls, Burnham and Abbott. Torture!
If that don’t do it send to the TUC
Milliband is both incompetent and lying. He is proficient in the first and professional in the second.
He is a class act for labour.
Anyway , Who is Mossads choice ?
Are you gay?
Nope
Is Mossad a Black/Paddy name for Moss Side… the normally Labour-voting district of Manchester situated between Hulme and Chorlton-cum-Hardy?
No, it is Israel’s secret intelligence service and part-time cleaning service.
“Just as Labour suggest that Andy Coulson should be held responsible for what happened on his watch with their now well-worn line, is David Miliband lying or incompetent?”
So do you think that Coulson should go now Guido ?
Just what makes you think he reads this shit Billy?
He does sometimes , Just askin ?
OK, I’ll let you off for now Billy, but be prepared for a good spanking if you err again you grubby little urchin.
Mmm, spanking, eh? And spanking urchins?
Wow, you certainly know how to pleasure yourself, Doris.
No, but applying labour’s own logic to their own people, labour should be calling for Miliband’s head if he can be linked to any wrongdoing in his own past, even in previous non-political jobs, if he ever had one.
Good morning comrades This morning having completed my plans for the next Underground stoppage and ongoing dispute with the capitalist Cameron tyranny I have now turned by attention to the Labour leadership campaign. Having spend some time checking out the secure ballot boxes at Transport House I can confidently predict a handsome victory for Comrade Edward Milliband.
Just another slippery, snakeoil salesman about to take over the Nu-Improved-Labor Party.
Move along please nothing to see …
If you didn’t hate her before, you will now. What a ghastly person she is. How ironic that even Jodie Marsh comes off as more likeable and intelligent.
That video still illustrates the stench of politics of all colours is obviously getting to her. Either that or AlJaBeeb’s canteen has burnt her rice an’ pea in the green room.
The above still illustrates the stench of politics of all colours is obviously getting to her. Either that or AlJaBeeba’s can teen has burnt her rice ‘n’ pea in the green room.
The above still illustrates the stench of politics of all colours is obviously getting to her. Either that or AlJaBeeba’s can teen has burnt her rice ‘n’ pea in the green room.
Oh dear, does gf have an issue with the word f a t ?
Tarnished the whole ‘effin lot of ‘em are tarnished – and if any one of them had ANY sort of understanding of honor they would consider their role in that horrible Labour ‘Government’ a bar to standing for public office.
The only thing I would offer them is a bottle of Whisky and a fully loaded revolver!
℃ℏℯ¢к øüṫ м℮ ♭ø◎ṫƴ мøη, (ßυḡℊℓℯ ßüℊℊℓ℮)
ℳℯ ʟøṽℯṥ м℮ ḉнїḉк℮ᾔ яḯḉ℮ αᾔḓ ḓα ƒø◎ḱḯᾔḡ ρℯ@❣
They should never have dine awat with slav*ry [sorry about the asterisk, I will not be modded again!]
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOps THEY SHOULD NEVERHAVE DONE AWAY [etc.......] So sorry!
Shock Horror. David Miliband acually did something that was right.
Don’t do that it hurts! Oh, OK, there is a father christmas and fairies really do exist at the bottom of gardens.
Is that OK? Can I go now please?
If you think torturing innocent people is right, then you should hand yourself into Mossad, as a member of an Islamic Militant terrorist organisation and tell them you will not comply with them until you have been tortured good and proper!
I do actually want to see terrorists tortured. I think it should be on pay-per-view. BUT we HAVE to know IF we get the right people. We cannot do that through torturing people into false confessions!
IF we can convict the real terrorists, then torture them to death on prime-time. But the only thing you get out of torturing innocent people, is more terrorists!
I agree that torturing innocent people is wrong; always. And no, it does not work as you so rightly say. Then there are those who come up with the “If it saves one life etc…..
Threatened with torture I would implicate my own mother if it meant the torture wouold stop.
But would you really enjoy seeing someone being tortured to death? I once, out of idle curiosity, Googled “death by a thousand cuts”.
I wish I hadn’t.
No I wouldn’t, but lots of people would, and I have no sympathy for those real terrorists who want to kill thousands or perhaps millions of people.
Anyone for a spot of waterboarding ?
And then maybe move on to solids
So have the labour conference organisers agreed to gordon’s demand that he be the one, on saturday, to announce his successor?
I think it would be very fitting, one loser handing over to the next.
In my ancestor’s day torture could only be used in the case of a direct threat to the state and then only on the explicit authority of the King. One could argue that it was justifiable in those circumstances. Nowadays people like Miliband D use torture in an indirect, weaselly way and practise it on minor figures who are only very indirectly a threat. I don’t think we’ve progressed. And don’t tell me that waterboarding isn’t torture – they wouldn’t bother doing it otherwise.
Well said Sir.
Second that comment as well.
However seeing the feckers like using the word multi so much, as in multiculturalism, how about multichoice for a new MPs induction process -
a) Ten minutes waterboarding
b) Five minutes with the old cattle prod
c) Have a finger nail ripped out
d) All of the above
Then the feckers could speak from experience!
Well put Sir William
I remember that vocal, right wing, neo-con supporter of water-boarding, Christopher Hitchens actually, and bravely, volunteering to be water-boarded. He did not believe that water-boarding was torture at all.
He employed a serviceman from the United States who was proficient in the techniques and went ahead and volunteered to be properly water-boarded in exactly the same way as those “suspects” were in camp X-Ray, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, by someone who actually water-boarded “suspects” at Camp X Ray.
Well I say “exactly the same”. There was one difference. Christopher actually had the right to end the proceedings at anytime if it got a bit too scary for him.
It was explained to Christopher what the Marine looked for when water-boarding. He would rest his palm on the highest part of the abdomen, so he could check for breathing patterns, and then apply water when he was breathing in, and, if required, punch the stomach if he was holding his breath, forcing an intake of breath.
After all the safety issues had been explored, they proceeded to start the water-boarding.
Read his description of the torture here: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808
Needless to say, Christopher did not last very long and changed his mind. He now fully believes that water-boarding is definitely torture and should not be used.
Torture DOES NOT WORK. It should NEVER be used against people who may be innocent, and ONLY used as entertainment value on people who have been fairly and properly convicted in a court of law of terrorist offences. Then we should torture them to death, and put it on pay-per-view!
I am honoured to announce my appointment as the first Terran Ambassador to Mars. I leave in two hours’ time. I will ensure lasting peace between our two great planets and provide expert guidance to the Martians in solving their economic problems. Everybodt says I am the best person do this and that they will be delighted to see me go.
Every Labour voter I know is either very thick and stupid in an objective objective sense or a lying slimy ball of carbuncle puss
That sounds like Hague.
I agree Sheez. Where I live, if they slapped a Labour sticker on a pig they’d vote for it. After another Labour idiot has been elected by these thickos, they then spend the next four years moaning about how terrible things are AND THEN THE SILLY FECKERS DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN AT THE NEXT ELECTION! Oh, by the way, most of these Labour voters have never had a job, have various coloured children by different fathers, and generally look as if a good wash wouldn’t go amiss. They really could make a glass eye cry.
British Isles ‘worst place to live in Europe’
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8015743/British-Isles-worst-place-to-live-in-Europe.html
I came to that conclusion a bloody long time ago
So did I, pal, so did I. The difference is I actually buggered off for good.
And all I had to do to pay for this utopia was burden you all with £4trillion of debt.
Money well spent, eh?
I’d like to see D Milipede tortured, perhaps removing that bum fluff from above his lip with a blowtorch. Imagine the ultimate smarm that must invade a room when he and Mandelbum coerce together.
Aha, the Brits are all asleep! Let’s rape all them women and drag the children away for the White Slave Trade!
That’s homophobic, that is, if you refuse to rape the men. Have you learned nothing after all these years of equal opportunities lecturing.
It was torture being in the government of Gordon Brown
Of that we have no doubt, judging by your exhausted, deathlike, withered, prematurely aged face.
I bet it was awful, wasn’t it? Good.
Governments use whatever methods they need to gather intelligence. If that process involves torture or ‘interrogation’ it is doubtful if the method used will always be revealed to the ultimate user.
To think that ministers have not relied upon such derived intelligence is unrealistic.. whether they actually know how it has been obtained would be debatable.
In days gone by in a ‘on a need to know basis’ environment that might be plausible
but these days less so.
Sorry to be O/T but this is just the cherry on the chapati…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/commonwealthgames/8017838/Commonwealth-Games-2010-crisis-worsens-as-portion-of-weightlifting-arena-roof-caves-in.html
I collapsed in helpless giggles when I got to the fourth paragraph: “Delhi chief minister Sheila Dikshit has dismissed…”
A perfect moniker for the liar or the clown or even mandleslime.
Tony Dikshit.
Gordon Dikshit.
Mandy Dikshit.
Vince Dikshit-Cable
Chris Dikshit-Huhne
Simon Dikshit-Hughes
Charles Dikshit-Kennedy
Neil Dikshit-Kinnock (love this one)
Endless fun.
is it true that david miliband is caught up the the “no ball” scandal
“is David Miliband lying or incompetent?”
Both.
All that useless bastard needs is a wee black mustache and a bit of hair straightening. Then what have you got? Jesse Owens could tell you.
I can’t take a man with the top lip of a 14 year old schoolboy seriously.
Caption competition – unofficial Wednesday version.
Ben please promise me that’s a banana.
David Millipeed looks so arrogant and talks to people as if he’s just scrapped them off his bloody shoes. His brother looks like one of Wallace \7 Gromit’s relations. What a bloody choice. Mind you, Labour supporters are as thick as pig shite so hey ho!
He reminds me very much of the wet behind the ears management trainee who uses buzzwords as a substitute for clear communication. This is an attempt to sound superior while at the same time not actually stating anything. Clever, well balanced people have no need to do this.
Terms such as ‘progressive concensus’…wtf is one of those?
Another clueless lefty that’s never had a real job.
They’re all the same.
Only when somebody offers a decent alternative to a Blair clone and romps to victory will these stupid politicians realise people are fed up with spin and soundbites.
you never have a problem with Israel’s war crimes, Guido.
so why are you so hung up (pardon the appropriate pun) on New Labour’s war crimes?
I know it’s wrong, but there is, perhaps, one way of extracting the truth from Millibland . . .
“As ever Guido will take a balanced approach and encourage fair play about it dredging up a political figures past.”
What on earth does this mean? Part of the problem might be a missing apostrophe, but even insering it doesn’t make it make sense.
Time to revisit some of those derided Dead Tree values, Guido, and do a bit of subediting, perhaps?
David Miliband, a liar? You’re having me on. How could the sifty eyed creep lying through his back teeth on this video possibly be a liar???
And well done Tony Been for exposing Miliband’s lies!