September 22nd, 2010

A Clear Conscience

In a move completely out-of-place for someone who can put their head on the pillow confident in the knowledge that they hadn’t relied on information from tortured terror suspects, David Miliband decided yesterday he would return to the FCO to “look over some papers”. But of course he isn’t worried about anything.

The last thing the ailing front-runner would have wanted is to have his murky involvement in this matter splashed across the Guardian, again, but it seems they have decided not to make an enemy of him forever by holding off with their attack until its almost too late for any real impact to the leadership vote. As ever Guido will take a balanced approach and encourage fair play about it dredging up a political figures past. Just as Labour suggest that Andy Coulson should be held responsible for what happened on his watch with their now well-worn line, is David Miliband lying or incompetent?


125 Comments

  1. 1
    A, Campbell says:

    All the relevant papers are shredded.

    Like

    • 4
      Charles Lynton says:

      That’s what you think, c*nt…

      Like

    • 5
      Dick the Prick says:

      To be fair, I hope they are. Sometimes it’s necessary for governments to do things which may be a bit dodgy; regardless of political party. Binyam Mohammed = British? Yeah, right.

      Like

      • 12

        drip, drip, drip on Biyams head
        while he is tied to a metal bed
        if he dont tell us about bin laden
        we will cut him up and make him a maiden
        instead we could take him to Guantanamo Bay
        where he can work, rest and pray
        until he wakes up to the realisation
        that he can now sue for compensation

        Like

      • 13
        Shhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! says:

        they are still at it

        but don’t tell the mongs as it will spoil their fun

        Like

      • 77
        Mr Ned says:

        This country has this all arse over tit!

        They have been benefiting from information taken from torturing people. Torturing someone to get to the truth is simply not possible. Torturing someone into a confession (for something that they may or may not have done) is possible, but completely counter productive and is immoral and wrong. As a means of getting truth and protecting lives, It does NOT work!

        We have people posting here who’s first reaction to a suspicion of involvement is to jump to torture to extract confession rather than trying to establish truth.

        This leads to people giving whatever information they think the torturers want to hear, just to make the torture stop. It is rarely, if ever, the truth.

        There have been many innocent people forcefully kidnapped, flown to some foreign hell-hole and brutally tortured to confess to plots, (often plots that could not ever possibly have been real), because someone-else had been tortured and made up the name of someone else to blame, just to get the torture to stop. Then that newly kidnapped person also makes up bullshit to get their torture to stop, and on it goes.

        IF torture worked as a means of establishing truth, THEN it might be possible to excuse it in limited cases, but it DOES NOT!

        So we have a situation whereby predominantly the innocent (and very few guilty people) are tortured and then when we get a conviction, their human rights kick in and we cannot touch them.

        I propose that we turn the system upside down and rely on the rule of law, better intelligence networks, better policing, better investigations and then when legally and properly and justifiably convicted of terrorist offences, THEN we torture the bastards to death!

        The ass-backwards way we are doing it now is simply a huge recruitment sergeant for terrorists. It simply does NOT work!

        Like

        • 106
          A G Reed says:

          +1

          Like

          • Disaffected says:

            Mr Ned has a valid point. Although I would prefer torturing before and after until death. These people are not plucked from random obscurity for the merriment of our security services. Leaving suspects alive causes many problems and debates. Think Gibralta, and the SAS managing suspected bombers. Dead people do not talk-poor Dr Kelly. No one still brought to justice.

            Like

    • 29
      For once i have to say well done MiliD says:

      Can’t see what all the fuss is about. The boy did the right thing.

      Like

    • 74
      Peter Grimes says:

      The question is, Guido, have you got something on Millipede Sr’s involvement in torture that you are keeping up the sleeve of your doublet?

      Please don’t keep us in suspense!

      Like

    • 123
      Mr I Grumble, Tax Slave of Busted Blighty, hoping for Coalition Boys & Gels to Fix it for Us UK says:

      With a clear conscious, M’Lud, being of ‘Sound Mind’….. we, the Peoples of Busted Blighty, declare the ‘Demise of the the ‘Liarbor Party’ by appointing Ed Miliband to lead the said Liarbor Party into mutual self-loathing and collective mutual m*sturbation….!!

      (Oops… mes abject apalogeez……)

      Like

  2. 2
    The Court of Public Opinion says:

    http://tinyurl.com/3753p8b

    Like

  3. 3
    Anonymous says:

    Oh shit !! The truth will out, if not through Wikileaks, through Guidoleaks…

    Like

  4. 6

    Did ayone see the Pope’s Westminster Hall address. That fucking twot Brown was sitting next to Blair and as the Pope came in a people were looking at him with awe, respect or whatever the left footers call it. Brown was looking around gurning and smiling as though he was in a porn shop. The man is a fucking village idiot with a truly horrible vicious side. He seems to have put his head above the parapet a few times recently and obviously feels he can come out to play again.

    Like

  5. 8
    David M: It's simply not true that No10 was an unhappy place. Gordon was a cheerful and inspirational leader who never lost his temper says:

    Like

  6. 9
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    They are all fucked one way or another , Dave M =Tortue and the heir to Blair ,
    Ed M = Climate change scam , Ed Balls = Mcbride , bully , fucking up the education system, Andy B =Staffs hospital, Diane A= Hypocrsy over schooling .

    Seems to me diane is there best choice

    Like

  7. 10
    Sarah Tweet says:

    Am on my way home

    Like

  8. 16
    Why says:

    Why do we never see Gordon and his business partner Ms Macauley together in public anymore? Did her contract expire on May 11 when they left Downing Street?

    Like

  9. 17
    moo moo moo says:

    It their any one of these Labour cockmeisters who have any sense of honesty and decency?

    Like

    • 24
      Anonymous says:

      Ask Dave C. He has picked up their baton remarkably efficiently and should be able to tell you.

      Did you have a Labour education by the way?

      Like

  10. 19
    Anonymous says:

    Ah, but remember, just keep repeating the ‘carefully worded’ statement which is our ‘line to take’ on the issue.

    “Britain does not practise torture. Britain does not condone torture.”

    Of course, that leaves a loophole you could drive a coach-and-horses through in respect of using ‘intelligence’ that someone acquired without your consent through torture, but we will let that pass, eh ?

    Like

    • 97
      Mr Ned says:

      That would be the same as condoning torture.

      Like

      • 108
        scunner says:

        All very interesting, but does he have the right to revisit FCO papers now he is no longer in charge — or even in government? That seems a bit odd to me as I thought the convention was that what is done is done, the papers are filed away for 30? years and that a new government cannot access previous papers. But I might be wrong of course.

        Like

  11. 21
    Steve Miliband says:

    Next time send all detainees to the Labour party conference to listen to my brothers, Balls, Burnham and Abbott. Torture!

    If that don’t do it send to the TUC

    Like

  12. 26
    fernando's pants says:

    Milliband is both incompetent and lying. He is proficient in the first and professional in the second.
    He is a class act for labour.

    Like

  13. 28
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    Anyway , Who is Mossads choice ?

    Like

  14. 30
    Billy Bowden is the greatest umpire ever ! says:

    “Just as Labour suggest that Andy Coulson should be held responsible for what happened on his watch with their now well-worn line, is David Miliband lying or incompetent?”

    So do you think that Coulson should go now Guido ?

    Like

  15. 33
    Bob Crow says:

    Good morning comrades This morning having completed my plans for the next Underground stoppage and ongoing dispute with the capitalist Cameron tyranny I have now turned by attention to the Labour leadership campaign. Having spend some time checking out the secure ballot boxes at Transport House I can confidently predict a handsome victory for Comrade Edward Milliband.

    Like

  16. 36

    Just another slippery, snakeoil salesman about to take over the Nu-Improved-Labor Party.
    Move along please nothing to see …

    Like

  17. 42
    Fat Bott is a condescending cunt says:

    If you didn’t hate her before, you will now. What a ghastly person she is. How ironic that even Jodie Marsh comes off as more likeable and intelligent.

    Like

    • 47
      fat cow says:

      That video still illustrates the stench of politics of all colours is obviously getting to her. Either that or AlJaBeeb’s canteen has burnt her rice an’ pea in the green room.

      Like

    • 48
      fat cow says:

      The above still illustrates the stench of politics of all colours is obviously getting to her. Either that or AlJaBeeba’s can teen has burnt her rice ‘n’ pea in the green room.

      Like

    • 49
      bigoted cow says:

      The above still illustrates the stench of politics of all colours is obviously getting to her. Either that or AlJaBeeba’s can teen has burnt her rice ‘n’ pea in the green room.

      Like

    • 50
      Anonymous says:

      Oh dear, does gf have an issue with the word f a t ?

      Like

    • 55
      I hate Bradshaw too says:

      Tarnished the whole ‘effin lot of ‘em are tarnished – and if any one of them had ANY sort of understanding of honor they would consider their role in that horrible Labour ‘Government’ a bar to standing for public office.

      The only thing I would offer them is a bottle of Whisky and a fully loaded revolver!

      Like

    • 58
      Ḏї@η℮ Åßßøтт says:

      ℃ℏℯ¢к øüṫ м℮ ♭ø◎ṫƴ мøη, (ßυḡℊℓℯ ßüℊℊℓ℮)

      ℳℯ ʟøṽℯṥ м℮ ḉнїḉк℮ᾔ яḯḉ℮ αᾔḓ ḓα ƒø◎ḱḯᾔḡ ρℯ@❣

      Like

  18. 52
    If the Guardian doesn't approve then it must be OK says:

    Shock Horror. David Miliband acually did something that was right.

    Like

    • 57
      Anonymous says:

      Don’t do that it hurts! Oh, OK, there is a father christmas and fairies really do exist at the bottom of gardens.

      Is that OK? Can I go now please?

      Like

    • 86
      Mr Ned says:

      If you think torturing innocent people is right, then you should hand yourself into Mossad, as a member of an Islamic Militant terrorist organisation and tell them you will not comply with them until you have been tortured good and proper!

      I do actually want to see terrorists tortured. I think it should be on pay-per-view. BUT we HAVE to know IF we get the right people. We cannot do that through torturing people into false confessions!

      IF we can convict the real terrorists, then torture them to death on prime-time. But the only thing you get out of torturing innocent people, is more terrorists!

      Like

      • 93
        Batty Hattie Harmanescu says:

        I agree that torturing innocent people is wrong; always. And no, it does not work as you so rightly say. Then there are those who come up with the “If it saves one life etc…..

        Threatened with torture I would implicate my own mother if it meant the torture wouold stop.

        But would you really enjoy seeing someone being tortured to death? I once, out of idle curiosity, Googled “death by a thousand cuts”.

        I wish I hadn’t.

        Like

        • 100
          Mr Ned says:

          No I wouldn’t, but lots of people would, and I have no sympathy for those real terrorists who want to kill thousands or perhaps millions of people.

          Like

  19. 53
    David Cameron says:

    Anyone for a spot of waterboarding ?

    Like

  20. 54
    nell says:

    So have the labour conference organisers agreed to gordon’s demand that he be the one, on saturday, to announce his successor?

    I think it would be very fitting, one loser handing over to the next.

    Like

  21. 59
    Sir William Waad says:

    In my ancestor’s day torture could only be used in the case of a direct threat to the state and then only on the explicit authority of the King. One could argue that it was justifiable in those circumstances. Nowadays people like Miliband D use torture in an indirect, weaselly way and practise it on minor figures who are only very indirectly a threat. I don’t think we’ve progressed. And don’t tell me that waterboarding isn’t torture – they wouldn’t bother doing it otherwise.

    Like

    • 63
      Anonymous says:

      Well said Sir.

      Like

      • 68

        Second that comment as well.

        However seeing the feckers like using the word multi so much, as in multiculturalism, how about multichoice for a new MPs induction process –
        a) Ten minutes waterboarding
        b) Five minutes with the old cattle prod
        c) Have a finger nail ripped out
        d) All of the above
        Then the feckers could speak from experience!

        Like

    • 69
      Monty says:

      Well put Sir William

      Like

    • 94
      Mr Ned says:

      I remember that vocal, right wing, neo-con supporter of water-boarding, Christopher Hitchens actually, and bravely, volunteering to be water-boarded. He did not believe that water-boarding was torture at all.

      He employed a serviceman from the United States who was proficient in the techniques and went ahead and volunteered to be properly water-boarded in exactly the same way as those “suspects” were in camp X-Ray, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, by someone who actually water-boarded “suspects” at Camp X Ray.

      Well I say “exactly the same”. There was one difference. Christopher actually had the right to end the proceedings at anytime if it got a bit too scary for him.

      It was explained to Christopher what the Marine looked for when water-boarding. He would rest his palm on the highest part of the abdomen, so he could check for breathing patterns, and then apply water when he was breathing in, and, if required, punch the stomach if he was holding his breath, forcing an intake of breath.

      After all the safety issues had been explored, they proceeded to start the water-boarding.

      Read his description of the torture here: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808

      Needless to say, Christopher did not last very long and changed his mind. He now fully believes that water-boarding is definitely torture and should not be used.

      Torture DOES NOT WORK. It should NEVER be used against people who may be innocent, and ONLY used as entertainment value on people who have been fairly and properly convicted in a court of law of terrorist offences. Then we should torture them to death, and put it on pay-per-view!

      Like

  22. 62
    Gordon Brown says:

    I am honoured to announce my appointment as the first Terran Ambassador to Mars. I leave in two hours’ time. I will ensure lasting peace between our two great planets and provide expert guidance to the Martians in solving their economic problems. Everybodt says I am the best person do this and that they will be delighted to see me go.

    Like

  23. 64
    SHEEEZ says:

    Every Labour voter I know is either very thick and stupid in an objective objective sense or a lying slimy ball of carbuncle puss

    Like

    • 66
      Anonymous says:

      That sounds like Hague.

      Like

    • 101
      All Lib Dems are tossers says:

      I agree Sheez. Where I live, if they slapped a Labour sticker on a pig they’d vote for it. After another Labour idiot has been elected by these thickos, they then spend the next four years moaning about how terrible things are AND THEN THE SILLY FECKERS DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN AT THE NEXT ELECTION! Oh, by the way, most of these Labour voters have never had a job, have various coloured children by different fathers, and generally look as if a good wash wouldn’t go amiss. They really could make a glass eye cry.

      Like

  24. 65
  25. 70
    Voice of Treason says:

    I’d like to see D Milipede tortured, perhaps removing that bum fluff from above his lip with a blowtorch. Imagine the ultimate smarm that must invade a room when he and Mandelbum coerce together.

    Like

  26. 72

    Aha, the Brits are all asleep! Let’s rape all them women and drag the children away for the White Slave Trade!

    Like

  27. 73
    Boy Milly says:

    It was torture being in the government of Gordon Brown

    Like

    • 89
      Tessa Tickles says:

      Of that we have no doubt, judging by your exhausted, deathlike, withered, prematurely aged face.

      I bet it was awful, wasn’t it? Good.

      Like

    • 95
      the old Dufflebag says:

      Governments use whatever methods they need to gather intelligence. If that process involves torture or ‘interrogation’ it is doubtful if the method used will always be revealed to the ultimate user.

      To think that ministers have not relied upon such derived intelligence is unrealistic.. whether they actually know how it has been obtained would be debatable.

      In days gone by in a ‘on a need to know basis’ environment that might be plausible
      but these days less so.

      Like

  28. 87
    Susie says:

    Sorry to be O/T but this is just the cherry on the chapati…

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/commonwealthgames/8017838/Commonwealth-Games-2010-crisis-worsens-as-portion-of-weightlifting-arena-roof-caves-in.html

    I collapsed in helpless giggles when I got to the fourth paragraph: “Delhi chief minister Sheila Dikshit has dismissed…”

    Like

    • 92
      Martin Day says:

      A perfect moniker for the liar or the clown or even mandleslime.

      Tony Dikshit.
      Gordon Dikshit.
      Mandy Dikshit.

      Like

      • 102
        Susie says:

        Vince Dikshit-Cable
        Chris Dikshit-Huhne
        Simon Dikshit-Hughes
        Charles Dikshit-Kennedy
        Neil Dikshit-Kinnock (love this one)

        Endless fun.

        Like

  29. 91

    is it true that david miliband is caught up the the “no ball” scandal

    Like

  30. 96

    “is David Miliband lying or incompetent?”

    Both.

    Like

  31. 98
    gildedtumbril says:

    All that useless bastard needs is a wee black mustache and a bit of hair straightening. Then what have you got? Jesse Owens could tell you.

    Like

  32. 104
    I hate New Labour says:

    I can’t take a man with the top lip of a 14 year old schoolboy seriously.

    Like

  33. 110
    filipinomonkey says:

    Caption competition – unofficial Wednesday version.

    Ben please promise me that’s a banana.

    Like

  34. 111
    All Lib Dems are tossers says:

    David Millipeed looks so arrogant and talks to people as if he’s just scrapped them off his bloody shoes. His brother looks like one of Wallace \7 Gromit’s relations. What a bloody choice. Mind you, Labour supporters are as thick as pig shite so hey ho!

    Like

    • 112
      filipinomonkey says:

      He reminds me very much of the wet behind the ears management trainee who uses buzzwords as a substitute for clear communication. This is an attempt to sound superior while at the same time not actually stating anything. Clever, well balanced people have no need to do this.

      Terms such as ‘progressive concensus’…wtf is one of those?

      Like

      • 114
        I hate New Labour says:

        Another clueless lefty that’s never had a real job.

        They’re all the same.

        Only when somebody offers a decent alternative to a Blair clone and romps to victory will these stupid politicians realise people are fed up with spin and soundbites.

        Like

  35. 115
    they're all the same says:

    you never have a problem with Israel’s war crimes, Guido.

    so why are you so hung up (pardon the appropriate pun) on New Labour’s war crimes?

    Like

  36. 118
    Torquemada says:

    I know it’s wrong, but there is, perhaps, one way of extracting the truth from Millibland . . .

    Like

  37. 120
    Ruth Kelly's plaything says:

    “As ever Guido will take a balanced approach and encourage fair play about it dredging up a political figures past.”

    What on earth does this mean? Part of the problem might be a missing apostrophe, but even insering it doesn’t make it make sense.

    Time to revisit some of those derided Dead Tree values, Guido, and do a bit of subediting, perhaps?

    Like

  38. 122
    augustine the hippo says:

    Like

  39. 124
    Auntie Flo' says:

    David Miliband, a liar? You’re having me on. How could the sifty eyed creep lying through his back teeth on this video possibly be a liar???

    Like

  40. 125
    Auntie Flo' says:

    And well done Tony Been for exposing Miliband’s lies!

    Like


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