September 16th, 2010

The Media’s Crucifixion of the Pope is Atheist Bigotry

Following the media right now you get the impression that Iain Paisley has nothing on the BBC-Guardian-C4-News axis of metropolitan secularism. Paisley would on occasion rant against the “Papal anti-Christ”, but the metropolitan media have in recent weeks created a caricature of the Pope more visceral because it is framed as progressive and reasonable. It is little more than atheist bigotry dressed up in rationalist clothes.

The Catholic Church and the Catholic laity are coming to terms and dealing with an evil conspiracy of silence within the priesthood which let the abuse of innocent children go unchecked for decades. Predatory paedophile priests have ruined the lives of hundreds if not thousands of Catholic children. Their reckoning will be eternal.

That terrible issue is being used as cover for editorial judgements that are motivated by entirely separate reasons. The Pope is being crucified in sections of the media as, and this is no exaggeration, an evil, dark, Nazi protector of paedophiles. This is not true and is deeply offensive to Catholics who are dealing with a painful history that has tested the faith of many. Our children are being constantly bombarded with messages from the secular media to distrust those good men that baptised them, offer them communion at mass every Sunday, confirm them in their faith, educate and marry them, comfort us in sickness, read us our last rites and bury us.

A lot of the media criticism is coloured purely by secular antipathy to the traditional values espoused by the Pope, because Catholicism favours a culture of life and family values inimical to the cultural mores of a Guardian editorial meeting. The 50 atheists in this morning’s Guardian are taking the Pope’s visit as an opportunity to kick at the spiritual leader of Roman Catholicism in a way they would never dare do to the Dalai Lama, who incidentally also favours a culture of life and traditional family values. The false characterisation of the Pope says more about his detractors than it does about him.


820 Comments

  1. 1
    Richard Manns says:

    Surely the point is that the Pope, as Joseph Ratzinger and Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, personally signed papers ordering that priests accused of paedophilia should not be handed over to the authorities, but should be dealt with internally and often simply moved to a new parish.

    You have confused the 2 issues: the majority of the Catholic Church have suffered greatly and undeservedly for this, but Joseph Ratzinger played a great role in hiding the priests, allowing them to rape more and more before they were caught. Many bishops pleaded for Ratzinger to stop this but they did not.

    To quote Johann Hari’s article:
    “In the US in 1985, a group of American bishops wrote to Ratzinger begging him to defrock a priest called Father Stephen Kiesle, who had tied up and molested two young boys in a rectory. Ratzinger refused for years, explaining that he was thinking of the “good of the universal Church” and of the “detriment that granting the dispensation can provoke among the community of Christ’s faithful, particularly considering the young age” of the priest involved. He was 38. He went on to rape many more children.”

    Like

    • 3
      • 63
        Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' says:

        The shocking sytsematic child abuse and p**ophilia is no myth.

        Those who seek to justify it, excuse it or cover it up are as bad as the abusers themselves.

        http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369148-pope-led-cover-up-of-child-abuse-by-priests.do

        Like

        • 69
          journo garbage says:

          The article’s wrong. Read the 2001 document. The fact that a bunch of plonkers who don’t understand canonical language and read too much Dan Brown think it’s some kind of “smoking gun” for a cover-up is a comment on their limited faculties, not the letter’s contents.

          Like

          • Blind Faith in-action - "The article’s wrong." says:

            Presumably God convinced you that it was instead of the testimony provided from those inside the Catholic Church itself.

            But please try and write off the systematic child abuse in the Catholic Church as a some kind of Dan Brown fantasy. You sound as warped and out of touch with reality as the Priests who did it.

            Like

          • journo garbage says:

            No, I just know how to read. Cite the damning passages from the 2001 document, if you can. It’s been publicly available, in English, since 2001, so you shouldn’t find it too challenging.

            Like

          • Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' says:

            Then read this.

            Patrick Wall, a former Vatican-approved enforcer of the Crimen Sollicitationis in America, tells the programme: “I found out I wasn’t working for a holy institution, but an institution that was wholly concentrated on protecting itself.”

            And Father Tom Doyle, a Vatican lawyer until he was sacked for criticising the church’s handling of child abuse claims, says: “What you have here is an explicit written policy to cover up cases of child sexual abuse by the clergy and to punish those who would call attention to these crimes by the churchmen.

            Too challenging for you to understand was it ?

            Like

          • journo garbage says:

            The Wall quote, shorn of context or referents, is worthless. Doyle’s record re: the document is set out here; he subequently admitted his analysis was wrong.

            Do carry on.

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            Whilst it is undeniable that the pope, as Cardinal Ratzinger, did act in a wholly unacceptable way in the past and the Catholic church did wrongly cover-up a host of abuses and there is no justification for those abuses or the cover up of them, I wish to acknowledge the fact that the pope has since changed his mind, has seen how appalling this was, has admitted how appalling this was, has admitted he was wrong in the past, has apologised repeatedly for this and has put in place measures to ensure that this cannot happen anymore and that other children will NOT now be abused.

            When will we see anything like this from abusive Rabbis? Abusive Immams? or anyone else who is in charge of organisations who have members who still abuse children, but who’s leaders are STILL covering this abuse up?

            Social services is an organisation which abuses the secrecy of the family courts to cover up massive child abuse and profiteering from child abuse.

            By all means do not forget what the pope did in his failure to many children, but also put it in context of the times. The 1970s and early 1980s, child abuse was a taboo that was not contemplated, and where cases occured it was best seen to be dealt with by referral of the perpetrator to a psychiatrist. This was of course wrong, but this was how it was dealt with at the time.

            Now the pope has made great changes which I recognise and welcome in actually stamping out abuse. It is of course too late for many children, but it is a belated big step in the right direction.

            Why not attack the other religions and organisations who have people who are STILL committing child abuse and having that covered up by the leaders in those religions and organisations?

            Like

          • Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' says:

            The Wall quote is damning so you weasel and hide behind context while the fact that Father Doyle has made some contradictory statements reflects that fact that he was a serving member of the clergy suffering the wrath from a clearly furious heirarchy.

            But please, do carry on excusing child abusers.

            Like

          • Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' says:

            That being said, we ought not throw stones at Fr. Tom. He too is a major victim in all this. At one time he was on the fast-track to the pointy hat as a rising star in the canon law world. However, he gave it all up to help victims of clerical sexual misconduct when the bulk of the Church hierarchy was playing hardball with victims and covering up. Because of his moral courage in backing victims, testifying against fellow priests in civil courts when needed, Fr. Tom became a pariah among Catholic churchmen. The abuse and character assassination he suffered was on par with Barba, Vaca and the first group of Maciel’s victims to come forward.

            I remember when his name was a curse word in the Church. I remember when people use to laugh at him for predicting an impending major sexual abuse crisis that would severely tarnish the Church. I remember making the mistake, around the time I earned my licentiate in canon law, of saying: “I think Fr. Tom Doyle is right.” Two years later, nobody was laughing at Fr. Tom and his wild predictions. However, the damage had been done to his name and to his career.

            Like

          • Pedant says:

            There are two points. One of course is the shocking behaviour of the abusing priests, which no one can defend. The other is the equally shocking attempt of the Guardian et al to use this issue to attack the Catholic Church; just as Guido says they attack any family based faith or belief. Certainly over the last hundred years the Christian Churches have done far more good in the world than The Guardian and its groupies. And I speak as at best an agnostic.

            Like

          • WHAT FUCKING PLANET ARE YOU ON ? says:

            A Guardian article is “equally shocking” as systematic child abuse ????

            Pull the other fucking one chum.

            Who are these cretins ?

            You’re a Ped-something all right.

            Like

          • TONY BLACKBURN says:

            Morning POP PICKERS its a POPETASTIC day pop on down to a park to take a peek at the Popely Pontif!!

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            “A Guardian article is “equally shocking” as systematic child abuse ????”

            The Guardian is a part of the mainstream media which was, and still is, covering up massive child abuse within all levels of society.

            They are pissed that the Catholic church is no longer covering up the abuse which senior media leaders still engage in to this day.

            There are many cases of mass child abuse where high-fliers in society (religious and non religious) would use child homes (Catholic and non catholic alike) as a catalogue mail-ordering service and they would pick out which kids to abuse at their sick parties. There have been many independent film makers make excellent documentaries exposing these rings and the mainstream media refuse to show them because they expose high level politicians, judges, magistrates, police and media people amongst others.

            Whilst I am appalled and sickened by the abuse that Catholic priests committed, and each and every one of these priests (who are still alive) should be punished to the full extent of the law, we must not lose sight of the outcomes we desire in all of this.

            In my case I desire an outcome of ridding the Catholic church of abusers. The current pope is now the best hope we have of achieving that. If people who are understandably furious over the abuse, manage to drive the pope from office, he will most likely be replaced by someone who may cover all this up again.

            The child abusers in the media would like nothing more than this.

            I liken the Pope to a “supergrass” Although he may be guilty of a long-cover-up which is unforgivable, he is now, belatedly, doing the RIGHT thing and tackling sexual abuse of children in the Church.

            He should be congratulated and encouraged for the good he is NOW doing.

            I am NOT supporting child abuse in anyway shape or form, for it is the most gross and evil of abuses. I was sexually abused by a neighbour as a child (he was not a catholic BTW), My wife was sexually abused by her father (not a catholic, but a corporal in the RAF), my mother was sexually abused by her step-father (again, not a catholic). It happens all over the place and in every strata of society and it must be STOPPED!!! A good friend of mine at work discovered how widespread abuse is when she had a normal new years party where one of her friends sneaked upstairs and sexually abused her nine year old daughter. Her former friend is a Nurse working in the NHS. Thankfully this little girl had the courage to tell what happened to her mother and My friend went to the police the next morning as soon as she was aware of what happened.

            The police took them to hospital to gather evidence. The police officers were of absolutely NO doubt of what happened, yet they only interviewed the suspect as a witness, not under oath as a suspect, and then took no further action. This vile abusing woman still works with children as a nurse in the NHS.

            Like

          • sorry! I didn't realise you were a nutter says:

            “The Guardian is a part of the mainstream media which was, and still is, covering up massive child abuse within all levels of society.”

            Did your tin-foil hat or God tell you this loony conspiratorial horseshit ?

            The widespread systemic sexual abuse of children by Priests and those in the Catholic Church is fact. Not fiction.
            Not some paranoid internet conspiracy.

            FACT.

            Stick to facts and leave the frankly ludicrous excuses in your tin-foil hat.

            An article in the Guardian is not even in the same fucking GALAXY as the abuse of thousands of children by Priests. They are not comparable and they are CLEARLY not equal unless you hail from the planet nutcase.

            Other abuse does not make this abuse okay or any less repuganant.
            Understand ?

            Like

          • Alex says:

            Protecting a SINGLE paedophile is utterly despicable – work upwards from that and any even minded person can understand why some quarters dislike the current pope so much.

            Like

          • WTF? says:

            “work upwards from that and any even minded person can understand why some quarters dislike the current pope so much.”

            is this some new loony internet language for paranoids ?
            I can’t understand a word of that babble

            Like

          • Susie says:

            Indeed. See Margaret Hodge MP, leader of Islington council, who prevented an investigation into the systematic child abuse going on in council care homes in the borough.

            http://margarethodge.net/2010/03/06/islington-child-abuse-scandal-returns-to-haunt-hodge/

            People in glass houses…

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            To: sorry! I didn’t realise you were a nutter.

            I understand that YOU are covering up for abusers by your insane rant!

            It is solid and provable that the abuse I outlined exists, but is routinely covered up by all parts of the mainstream media in EXACTLY the same way that it was covered up by and for the Catholic Church too.

            You realise that the kids who were abused by those priests were called liars and conspiracy theorists and nutters, as were any priest that tried to blow the whistle on this for decades?

            Anyone who tried to expose the rampant abuse within the Catholic Church was vilified and insulted the same way that you insulted me.

            You really think that this abuse was confined to the Catholic church?

            Where is the mainstream coverage of the Holly Greig case?

            What about the infamous Franklin Case where a documentary was about to be shown on TV and then it was withdrawn at the last second?

            All the systematic abuse of Children on the Isle of Wight, in Belgium and Portugal and Italy in all the infamous cases there?

            What about the hundreds of other cases, too many to list here, that are on-going and receiving NO mainstream media coverage at all? Still being ignored by the media, the police, the courts and the entire establishment?

            Abuse is rife and it MUST be tackled and all you can do is call those who are doing something about it conspiracy theorists.

            You mind dead brainless idiotic fucking apologist for child abusers you!

            Get a FUCKING CLUE before you post your mindless rubbish, you clearly have NO IDEA what you are writing about.

            I bet when the first allegations against the Catholic Church were aired that you thought they were bollocks too?

            Like

          • I should have realised you were a nutter, next time wear your tin-foil hat says:

            mere shrill assertion isn’t even close to being proof or even reasonable grounds for suspicion or I could claim Britain’s Banks are inflitrated by a ritual abuse ring even though it’s complete horseshit

            the so called satanic ritual abuse ‘scandals’ and the Jersey ‘abuse’ were wall to wall in the media and they were proved to be complete BULLSHIT
            but there were enough witless fools who ran around at the time screaming CONSPIRACY!! like you now are for it to be taken seriously
            which destroys your argument that the media are all in on this ‘global ritual abuse conspiracy’ nonsense

            the h.o.l.l.y. g.r.i.e.g. case deserves a more thorough investigation BUT the internet conspiracy lunatics surrounding her like you only damage her case

            but one or two cases that merit a closer look hardly makes the entire government or the media culpable for the Priests who are KNOWN and it HAS BEEN PROVED to have abused children

            of the rest of the cases you mention those that had any merit were covered in the media and cases are routinely covered all the time

            so you need to up your medication and stop believing everything you read on the internet

            when real cases of horrific abuse occur I condemn them utterly

            I didn’t believe they were bollocks because they had convincing testimony from many sources and hard evidence

            so you can be outraged about paranoid internet conspiracies and I’ll save my wrath and disgust for the real thing instead of excusing it like you are trying to do

            because even if all your paranoid delusions were true it still would not excuse the child abusing Priests

            Like

          • the media are watching me through my television says:

            “is routinely covered up by all parts of the mainstream media”

            Some would say this is clear evidence of ramapant clinical paranoia since the only thing the media ever agree on is that shagging footballers deserve a great deal of coverage and Michael Jackson even more so

            Why not just post
            “I believe everything is a conspiracy and everyone is in on it ?”

            It would save you a great deal of time and alert other readers to be on the lookout for shapeshifting lizards and UFO’s in the area

            Like

          • Major Plonquer (Beijing) says:

            Surely it is the responsibility of all good Catholics that after being fucked up the arse by your priest you should ‘turn the other cheek.?

            Like

      • 202
        sockpuppeteer says:

        Like

        • 377
          Still some refuse to grasp the magnitude of this abuse says:

          “Priests are no more likely to abuse than Rabbis and Zoologists”

          No but these guys ( not even Rabbis) do not claim to be Gods representatives on Earth and actually , not symbolically but actually turn bread and wine into Christs actual body and Blood. According to the Catholic Church The Priesthood holds the keys to your eternal salvation, they are indespensible to the forgiveness of your sins and therefore your salvation or damnation. So when one of them buggers you its a kinda big deal.

          Like

      • 536
        Ballstoyou says:

        Filthy perverts, the lot of them. That includes ALL members of the catholic religion who collude in the cover-up by remaining members of the church. You are all paedophile lovers, you rotten b astards.

        The only one with any courage is Peter Thatchell.

        Like

        • 578
          journo garbage says:

          HAHAHAHA!

          So all Catholics are paedophile-lovers by virtue of being Catholics, but the man who, on 26th June 1997, wrote to The Guardian that

          the positive nature of some child-adult sexual relationships is not confined to non-Western cultures. Several of my friends – gay and straight, male and female – had sex with adults from the ages of nine to 13. None feel they were abused. All say it was their conscious choice and gave them great joy. While it may be impossible to condone paedophilia, it is time society acknowledged the truth that not all sex involving children is unwanted, abusive and harmful

          is “the only one with any courage”? Oh, you anti-Catholic loons. So amusing, so silly, so consistently self-defeating.

          Like

        • 660
          A non catholic says:

          “The only one with any courage is Peter Thatchell.”

          You mean the pervert who is campaigning to legalise sex between adults and children?

          The pervert who is campaigning for the legalisation and normalisation of sex between children of any age so long as their is no more than three years in age gap?

          That pervert Tatchell you mean? He should have his balls cut off the sick fucking bastard.

          Like

          • Goose Sauce says:

            “He should have his balls cut off the sick fucking bastard.”

            Was he caught abusing children like the Catholic Priests were ?

            Like

      • 766
        Anonymous says:

        What is so sickening is that this organisation tells others how to live and threatens eternal damnation to non believers whist molesting kids and covering it up.

        Like

    • 5

      Hari is hardly a reliable expert witness as to the internal correspondence of the church. Ratzinger’s directive actually facilitated Church proceedings against clerical sex offenders that had previously hindered prosecutions.

      Refer to below, note footnotes dates and facts.

      http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0325.htm

      Christopher Hitchens’ venomous attack on Pope Benedict XVI (“The Great Catholic Coverup”, 18 March, 2010) is a revelation that deserves wider attention. Were it not for its appearance in Slate in the United States and in the National Post in Canada, it would be difficult to believe that a reputable newspaper would publish such absurdity.

      Mr. Hitchens states that in May, 2001, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger sent a “confidential” letter to Catholic bishops to remind them that anyone who disclosed “child rape and torture” by priests would be excommunicated. He claims that Cardinal Ratzinger imposed a ten year “statute of limitations” on actions against such priests, and was thus guilty of “obstruction of justice.”

      These assertions are false.

      The 2001 instruction was issued to clarify how reports of clerical sexual misconduct were to be handled. Ratzinger’s directive actually facilitated Church proceedings against clerical sex offenders by extending time limits that had previously hampered prosecutions. Limitations of action are not unique to Canon Law. They exist in secular legal jurisdictions, and can prevent prosecution of serious sex crimes.

      The so-called “confidential” instruction was published and appeared in English in 2001. It has been ‘discovered,’ ‘revealed’ or ‘exposed’ by so many reporters since then that it might give pause to those who doubt the possibility of the resurrection of the dead. Certainly, Mr. Hitchens’ wild fabrication that Cardinal Ratzinger threatened to excommunicate anyone who revealed “child rape and torture” has trumped the rhetoric of his predecessors. However, lurid prose is hardly a substitute for sound research.

      Bishops were not “reminded” by Cardinal Ratzinger of secrecy or excommunication. The passage quoted by Mr. Hitchens as ‘proof’ of his extravagant claim is not (as his readers might believe) from Ratzinger’s instruction. It is from Crimen Sollicitationis, a 1962 instruction that Ratzinger merely noted had been under review.

      Virtually all of Crimen Sollicitationis concerned the investigation and prosecution of complaints of sexual solicitation of penitents by priests in confession.Such procedures are difficult and sensitive because the seal of confession cannot be violated; a priest cannot break the seal even to defend himself against an accusation. The same policies and procedures were to be adapted and applied to the “worst crimes,” including sexual aggression against minors.

      Crimen Sollicitationis did not threaten excommunication of people who revealed “child rape and torture” by priests. On the contrary: it imposed not only a duty to denounce such crimes (and the lesser offence of solicitation) to the bishop, but the automatic excommunication of anyone who knowingly failed to do so.

      On the contrary: it imposed not only a duty to denounce such crimes (and the lesser offence of solicitation) to the bishop, but the automatic excommunication of anyone who knowingly failed to do so.

      Officials investigating or involved in proceedings pertaining to these “unspeakable crimes” were required to take an oath of perpetual secrecy, on pain of excommunication. This was the passage perverted by Mr. Hitchens’ selective quotation and extraordinary accusation. An oath of secrecy was also to be given to witnesses in the proceedings, but was not, it seems, to be backed by a threat of excommunication. Analogous oaths of secrecy and confidentiality are taken by secular professionals and officials. Confidentiality is usually maintained during secular investigations, and secular proceedings – Family Court hearings for example – sometimes proceed in secret.

      Media reports over the last several years have mentioned some of the reasons the Church had for secrecy: protecting the seal of confession, ensuring the integrity of an investigation, shielding victims from publicity and encouraging them to come forward, and protecting reputations before guilt has been established.

      Of course, such reasons are not always justified and not always persuasive. What is significant, however, is that canon law specialists consulted about Crimen Sollicitationis, while properly critical of wrongful conduct by bishops and priests, have dismissed the theory that the document was meant to cover up clerical wrongdoing, or that it was used for that purpose.

      It would be unfair to conclude that Mr. Hitchens deliberately distorted and withheld all of this information. One hesitates to attribute his failings to malicious anti-catholic bigotry.

      Perhaps he was just remarkably careless in his reading and incompetent in his research.

      Like

      • 7
        journo garbage says:

        Hari’s record of anti-Catholic incitement is long and inglorious. On the subject of Kiesle, you could do worse than read this summary of the issues.

        The fact of the matter is, most of those throwing these cases around don’t give a fig for the children, or for the truth of the facts. They want weapons to use against the Church, and, in the disgusting behaviour of a small minority of priests, have found them.

        Like

        • 32
          Ben says:

          That a few priests abused their position of trust isn’t that shocking – you could as well accuse the entire teaching profession for the actions of some teachers.

          But I think people are genuinely shocked by the evidence that has emerged about the Catholic Church’s attitude towards the rape of young children.

          It’s not just the specific cover ups. It’s that at every stage the primary consideration was not the safety of children at risk but the reputation of the church.

          Like

          • lock your kids up the Pope’s in Town

            Like

          • M'lud says:

            A few priests? A few? Where have you been? See post 64 below.

            Like

          • Cockney Christian says:

            Or we’ll come and groom them them stitch their fannies up and stone the to death

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            “It’s not just the specific cover ups. It’s that at every stage the primary consideration was not the safety of children at risk but the reputation of the church.”

            Can you name any other religion or organisation which acted differently to this in the 1970s and 1980s? School teachers in religious and non-religious schools would be transferred to other schools if they abused children and not handed to the police. Social services STILL abuse children and cover it up to this very day.

            The Catholic church was wrong in the way it handled abuse back in those days, but at least the Current pope has taken significant action to open the church up, end the cover ups and out the abusers and prevent abuse taking place in the future. What other organisations have been so brave?

            One would think that there are many child abusers in the media who feel threatened by this, looking at the vitriolic attacks they have made on the Catholic Church.

            Like

          • Belgian Catholic Church sex abuse: we feared compensation claims says:

            Belgium’s Roman Catholic Church did not apologise for decades of endemic child sexual abuse by its clerics because an official apology would triggered a flood of expensive compensation claims, a senior bishop has admitted.

            There has been widespread anger that Belgium’s bishops have failed to apologise and begged for more time to deal with an independent report that uncovered sex abuse committed by at least 91 priests, other clergy or church workers in every congregation in Belgium, taking place over four decades.

            At least 13 of the victims had committed suicide following the abuse, the report found last week, in an investigation fuelled by the resignation of the bishop of Bruges after he admitted abusing his nephew and trying to cover it up.

            San Deurinck, 65, a Catholic activist who tried to commit suicide after he was abused by two priests as a teenage boy, has called on the Church to “respect victims” and to ensure justice by handing paedophile priests over to the police.

            “I always had hope, but then I lost it,” he said. “Let the Church understand that justice must do her work. The Church must comply to respect of victims.”

            Like

          • Sir William Waad says:

            Child abuse wasn’t as common or as bad in secular institutions or in those run by other sects. The absolute distinction between priesthood and laity in the Roman Catholic Church distinguishes it from Protestant sects and other faiths, but it also leads to an attitude that the Church must protect its priests at all costs.

            It wasn’t just the the sexual abuse. The Christian Brothers in Ireland were often vicious with corporal punishment. Those boys who weren’t pretty enough to become catamites might be flogged instead.

            Abuse has been commoner in societies where the Catholic Church held a strong position (Ireland, Boston, Belgium). Power corrupts.

            Priests who are are guilty of paedophile atacks should be laicised, not merely removed from pastoral duties. “It would be better for him if a millstone were placed around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than to lead astray one of these little ones.” (Luke 17:2, New Catholic Bible)

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            As for the Belgian case, it is symptomatic of the systematic child abuse that is rife throughout Belgian society. (although this goes MUCH wider than Belgium, this abuse happens in every country) From the very highest levels of society down to the lowest.

            There are clearly many places within the Catholic church in many countries where widespread abuse took place and where this abuse still needs to be investigated and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. However it is very likely that this will not happen, because in many cases, Catholic boarding schools, and Children’s homes were run by people who were active in wider child abuse rings involving members of the police, the courts, the local and national media and local authorities and national Government.

            This is why the Catholics are getting such a kicking. This child abuse was and remains widespread in the highest levels of society and it is still happening and it is still being covered up. There are many people high up in society who shared children with priests at sex parties and these people are shitting themselves now. They CANNOT accept the Catholics tackling this issue, so they are on the attack in an attempt to drive the Catholics back into secrecy.

            I welcome what the Catholic church has done to tackle child abuse. More needs to be done and they need to actively prosecute abusers who are still alive to the fullest extent of the law.

            We also need to uncover ALL abusers wherever they hide and prosecute them to the full extent of the law too.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            What about the failure of the BBC and the Dead Tree Press to cover cases of pederasty involving journalists and cameramen even when they come to court. I do not know how many of those involved worked for the Grauniad

            Like

          • why were some of the Priests moved to other parishes instead of turned over to the law & locked up ? says:

            the catholic church didn’t have a choice
            they aren’t actively rooting out child abuse but finally having to admit it is widespread after decades of covering it up and the survivors of the abuse coming forward forced them to do so

            Like

        • 67
          Pope 'led cover-up of child abuse by priests' says:

          Patrick Wall, a former Vatican-approved enforcer of the Crimen Sollicitationis in America, tells the programme: “I found out I wasn’t working for a holy institution, but an institution that was wholly concentrated on protecting itself.”

          And Father Tom Doyle, a Vatican lawyer until he was sacked for criticising the church’s handling of child abuse claims, says: “What you have here is an explicit written policy to cover up cases of child sexual abuse by the clergy and to punish those who would call attention to these crimes by the churchmen.

          Like

        • 71
          stick to outing Hague, you're making a fool of yourself again says:

          This from someone who when confronted by the evil vile actions of Priests in the Catholic Church actually tweeted to blame the broadcasters for airing those actions under the guise of faux concern for a five year old.

          You even went so far as to call for the News to be “CUT” (censorship of News you don’t like is Libertarian how ?) instead of attacking the Priests for their vile crimes. The Pope also blamed the media at first instead of the abusers. But even he stopped that as it was rightly seen as repugnant.

          It’s a pity more five year olds weren’t made aware of the dangers before they were abused.

          And when the UK News routinely show graphic portrayals of death, destruction and suffering all over the world it is a measure of your stupidity to pretend outrage that they would dare tell the viewer exactly why the actions of the Catholic Church are so disgusting on this issue.

          Like

          • Tom Tomos says:

            Guido,

            Last week you were claiming to be a libertarian and this week we have from you two catholic apologiae. It’s difficult to see how you reconcile the two positions. Must we presume that the Jesuits got you before you were six?

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            And he can’t spell Ian Paisley’s name.

            Like

        • 654
          Susie says:

          Lefties still haven’t got over the crucial role played by the Catholic church and Pope John Paul’s* support of Solidanosc in liberating Poland from communism.

          They also can’t stand the competition the Catholic church represents for the hearts and minds of the poor in the Third World, i.e. providing hospitals, instead of AK47s or fomenting civil wars.

          *(ex Bishop of Krakow)

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Beliefs

            Don’t you sometimes think it odd
            That wars are fought in the name of God
            Behind religion armies hide
            Claiming God is on their side

            But what is even stranger still
            The Gods tell us we must not kill
            Yet we strive with all our might
            To prove that only our Gods right

            And of the others there’s no doubt
            Our Gods say we should wipe them out
            All religion beneath the sun
            Believes that it’s the only one

            To whom mankind should kneel and pray
            So to these ends we wound and slay
            Since the very dawn of time
            In Gods name we commit this crime

            Perhaps if all religions cease
            Mankind will at long last find peace
            Well here’s my own agnostic view
            God and religion NO thank you

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Considerations

            I think, whilst kneeling on a pew,
            War’s causes come from elsewhere too.
            So those who want religion gone,
            I give these thoughts to dwell upon…

            Of two world wars that have been fought,
            Those of religion sum to nought,
            And waging wars requires alliance
            With the latest tools of science.

            For just as God can be a shield
            To those wishing forces in the field.
            Atheism too may support evil,
            The course that’s taken comes from people.

            And the surest route to war is hate
            (More than God at any rate)
            Whilst tolerance tends to increase
            Our chances of enjoying peace.

            So to those who argue with such violence
            Against God in name of Science:
            Even when you think you’re right,
            It costs nothing to be polite.

            Like

        • 798
          Justin. says:

          When you say “a small minority”, the John Jay report found it to be 4%. Even by the most generous estimates, that is several times higher than in ordinary society.

          So if you meet two men on the street, and one is wearing catholic clerical clothes and the other is in jeans, you should probably choose to trust the secular individual.

          Like

      • 49
        caesars wife says:

        I give your your well argued case Guido , and I can already see a different times ideals bearing the insigniffcance of poorer times , both spiritual and physical, we seem to appologising for many things , which at that time seemed prudent in political thought and it is a little unfair to assume unwanted children would have recieved modern day thinking in the particular time frame they were in , thoughts were very much different back then which is perhaps what the socialsts claim has high ground ,there progress is the churches loss , is it not ?
        since Imelda came to power the persecution of the peadophiles (never mined the strict authoritarians/law beleivers ) have been no1 crime , the church has not known how to deal with peadratst , for the church could not get beyond its own construction , ordained priests or vicars for that matter were not true in there vocation of heart , for which as rightly say they will meet there own damnation ,and as we know from politics true hearts are rare indeed.
        If his Holness will bring anything let us hope it is the truth , for that at least he may bring the godhead to its rightfull place once more and enable him to fight the evil which we must all must all endure, within.His Holiness is one of the great theologians never mind what the MSM say , that I do respect .
        yours respectful Anglican yet echumenchial CW

        Like

        • 320
          try again says:

          Blaming the Guardian and media instead of the abusing Priests is “well argued”?

          Course it is.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Pederasty is probably no more widespread among priests than among journalists and cameramen (or imams and rabbis) but some groups of offenders appear to be off limits. Blanket condemnation is as repulsive and hypocritical as blanket defence.

            Like

          • that doesn't make it allright even if it was true you stupid cun't says:

            you’re probably dull of shit in your desperate attempts to excuse the inexcusable.

            nah!

            you’re definitely full of shit you child abuse excuser.

            Like

          • Bazza says:

            The post does not excuse the actions of the priests at all. It’s not about “blaming” the Guardian, it’s about how the lefties’ deep well of prejudice and hatred of any kind of moral-authority except their own is being given free-reign, using this awful story as a populist peg to hang it on.

            Like

      • 54
        Ars gratia artis says:

        Thanks, Guido, for fighting the good fight. You are on the side of the angels. When the anti Catholic bigots are living under Sharia law, they will wish that they paid more attention to the big picture.

        Like

        • 59
          Qui Bono says:

          So the only choice is a Catholic take on the imaginary sky fairy or a Muslim take on the same? Run along and consider really vital stuff like trans-substantiation and the singularity of monotheism and it’s consistency with the holy trinity.

          Meanwhile on planet earth the rest of us will support stem cell research which is just a bit more effective in healing disease than casting out demons.

          Like

          • ddd says:

            hear. hear.

            Guido: “Atheist bigotry dressed up in rationalist clothes.” Considering Atheism is rational I can’t see how it can be dressed up in rationalist clothes. Catholicism however, is a gender-bigoted, sexual-preference-bigoted, solution-to-aids-in-Africa-bigoted, repressive medieval idealogy dressed-up in rationalist clothes. The pope lives in a big gold-lined castle completely removed from the realities of life, presiding over a clergy of repressed homosexuals (I mean come on, a club full of unmarried men who have committed themselves to a life of worshipping a mystical non-intervening sky fairy), who then SYSTEMATICALLY covers up the SYSTEMATIC rape of the vulnerable by his employees. All over the world. If ever there were a case of “the emperor without clothes” then this is it. The pope should fucking hang like the criminal he is. And while I’m at it, every catholic should consider joining their cousins in that other “religion of peace,” Islam–after all, it is an accident of birth as to how you wish to worship your sky fairy. Progressive upholders and pursuers of knowledge and understanding, not. We can either live in fucking caves, praying for solutions, or we can busy ourselves discovering things like electricity and penicillin and inventing things like planes, and sliced bread.

            Stop muttering to the sky and grow-up.

            Like

          • Ars gratia artis says:

            Talk of Sky Fairies, Guardian style, is the mark of a hateful bigot and a fool, and you are very obviously both. If you were not such a c’unt you would realize how stupid you are to even try to presume to speak for “the rest of us on plant earth”.
            Ignorant masturbators like you are the very real reason that Heathrow is an entry portal to the Third World.
            No doubt you look forward to being euthanized in your slobbering dotage by your whelps eager to get their hands on their pathetic inheritance. In your particular case it would be no loss to the rest of us on planet earth.

            Like

          • Figaro (qui, qua, lì e là) says:

            Debate it or don’t debate it, but FFS get your spelling right. It is cui bono and it means who benefits?

            So ask yourself: who benefits from these ructions?

            Like

          • Paleo says:

            and killing babies of course. as it is sooo rational and progressive, we are well beyond 6 million now since 1967. Well done, far outstripped any child abuse numbers that clergy have commited.

            Like

        • 72
          Won't they go to Hell for that ? says:

          Do ‘angels’ cover up and excuse p**dophiles ?

          Like

          • Millstone Hanger says:

            “He who would cause hurt to these little ones, better that he had a millstone hung around his neck and be cast into the sea.” Yeheshua Bar Yusef, Jewish reformer C 30AD.

            Like

          • ddd says:

            Ars gratia: Thanks for you’re inane blather. Was it a quote from the old testament? or have you been hanging out with jihadists again?

            “Ignorant masturbators … look forward to being euthanized in your slobbering dotage by your whelps eager to get their hands on their pathetic inheritance…”

            When your mum leaves the house go have a wank in a sock. You’ll feel better.

            P.S: Look busy, gods watching.

            Like

      • 314
        THE BISHOP RODGER ALLBOYS says:

        available in paperback from october !

        Like

      • 537
        Ballstoyou says:

        you are another pervert.

        Like

      • 548
        Dame Davina Pancake says:

        I am not a Catholic, but I am largely with Guido on this one. There has certainly been a lot of dreadful abuse covered up by the Church and some of its history is somewhat bloody (understatement), but my understanding is that during his time as the head of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the current Pope did an awful lot to reform things in this area. He was however, effectively blocked by John Paul II. Having said that, I am not convinced that if we was to pop up now, Jesus would exactly be in approval of the Catholic Church, its structure, its celibicy or its wealth.

        Like

      • 789
        Jacob Stoatgobbler says:

        Dear Guido

        Not knowing where to look being an agressive NeoNazi Atheist (not to mention sceptical), could you direct me to the/a/any summary report of

        a) The number of cases alleged against representatives of the church.
        b) In the cases of guilt the range of punishments meted out.
        c) The number of cases forwarded to National Legal Jurisdiction for Criminal Prosecution
        d) The number of cases dismissed without proof or cause
        e) In the cases where guilt is proven, the number of referrals to mental health professionals for consultation and treatment.
        f) If guilty the number of Church representatives excommunicated.
        g) If guilty the number of Church representatives still within the Church structure.

        We would all like to know.

        Like

        • 799
          Justin. says:

          From the John Jay report (Wikipedia Summary):

          (a) from 1950 to 2002, a total of 10,667 individuals had made allegations of child sexual abuse. Of these, the dioceses had been able to substantiate 6,700 accusations against 4,392 priests in the USA, about 4% of all 109,694 priests who served during the time covered by the study.

          (b/c) Of the 4,392 priests who were accused, police were contacted regarding 1,021 individuals and of these, 384 were charged resulting in 252 convictions and 100 prison sentences; 3,300 were not investigated because the allegations were made after the accused priest had died.

          Thus, 6% of all priests against whom allegations were made were convicted and about 2% received prison sentences during the period ending in 2002.

          (d) (4392-1021)/4392 == 77% of substantiated allegations dismissed with no further action (basically all the ones where the abuser was dead plus another 70-odd).

          Can’t help with e&f I’m afraid.

          From Channel 4 News investigation:
          (g) In England and Wales, of the 22 priests found guilty and given prison sentences of over a year (since 2001), only 8 have been laicised (let alone excommunicated), and at least 9 are still in the priesthood.

          —————————————————————————-

          All in all, a pretty poor showing. Excommunication if you discuss the case outside the priesthood, but not if you are the guilty party. I despair.

          Guido – care to defend the above? Or am I and these independent facts part of some kind of media conspiracy?

          Like

    • 70
      I agree with the Pope says:

      The Pope is correct. Arriving at Heathrow is like arriving in a Third World country infact IMHO sometimes much worse.

      Like

      • 195
        Realist says:

        Hear, hear! No “Welcome to Britain” signs, only hundreds of “You must not smoke in the terminal” Reichskanzlei orders everywhere.

        Like

      • 213
        Bomb's not jobs says:

        Very strange that the German interview with Cardinal Kasper was run by the BBC on the eve of the Popes visit! For all its faults the roman Catholic church is just about the last bastion of our traditional way of life. All instinctive conservatives should rally to support the Pope. I dont deny that there are very disturbing issues concerning the handling of Child abuse cases. However if the Roman Catholic church were to be completely sidelined the west would have precious little intellectual armoury to oppose the Muslim onslaught.

        Secularists may not like the catholic church, but see them run for the hills if sharia Law takes over!!

        Like

      • 225
        Up sh1t creek says:

        I would say just the fact of coming back to the UK you recognise you’ve come to a country that is like the Third World.

        If you’ve ever been on the Eurostar, you can instantly tell the difference between France and the UK depressing sh1t hole.

        Like

      • 246
        A non catholic says:

        “Arriving at Heathrow is like arriving in a Third World country”

        Bullshit! I have been to third world countries and can tell you that you have a lot more freedom in those countries.

        Although Heathrow airport itself is a third-world like shithole and getting into London one feels like one has entered a more structurally well constructed, yet fascist, politically correct and health and safety obsessed version of Mozambique. There is more freedom in these other countries. For in those countries I can openly walk down the street and enter shops, cafe’s, bars carrying a loaded firearm, smoking a cigarette and criticising gays, Muslims, Jews Blacks, whites, and anyone else I have the freedom to criticise or tell jokes about and I can partake in or organise sporting events or firework events without having to fill in a massive pile of paperwork and pay out a fortune in insurance. I am far lees likely to be accosted by the authorities and far more likely to encounter friendly, relaxed and generously hospitable locals.

        The UK is not as nice or as free as a third world country, although we do get better health care and faster more reliable access to the internet. Oh, and green fields. Lots and lots of green.

        Like

        • 504
          Smig says:

          “we do get better health care and faster more reliable access to the internet.”

          Trinkets with which to appease the wageslaves of this once glorious nation.

          I’ve also had the benefit of travelling to what many would consider “third world” countries. I found the lack of authoritarism rather unsettling at first, and then realised that I had been continuously brainwashed since birth to obey signs and dictats from our “glorious leaders”.

          Sod this, it’s time I got back on my bike and headed for Asia again.

          Like

      • 402
        Anonymous says:

        England has been turned into a third world shithole by a traitor ruling class determined to cram it with millions of primitives from shitty backward countries; most of whom then proceed to recreate their shitty homelands in England. Arrest, torture, and slaughter is the only solution for these bastards – the liblabcons are all treasonous cυnts.

        Like

        • 512
          Anonymous says:

          and an inner member of the German hierarchy recently said “for us the war never ended”. So know you know why the Pope is a German Nazi.

          The subversion techniques which are all around us: sexualisation of children, trauma through injustice, mass immigration, political correctness were created by senior Nazis in 1942 as another way to fight war. They just needed traitors to implement them. Well there are lots of traitors in England.
          Mandelson, Prescott, Blair, Brown, Heath, Thatcher, Cameron, Osborne.

          Like

        • 658
          Susie says:

          And in their turn, the ghastly white urban classes flee from the cities to what has been until the last bastion of English culture, the countryside…

          They then proceed to turn it into the suburban hell they left behind — street, garden and security lights, speed bumps, cutting down ‘dangerous’ trees, electric gates, hot tubs, endlessly complaining about smells and sounds which have been part of country life for generations. I hate this fucking country.

          Like

          • Alf Garnett says:

            But how do those of us who come from and live in the country seize it back from the sort of people you mention, who have destroyed my part of Suffolk?

            Like

          • Eat my Cassock says:

            Well fuck off to Bulgaria then. Or Iran.

            Like

          • Bazza says:

            Agree with Susie.

            The land I grew up in is no more. It has been stolen and replaced with a bland paranoid dystopia in which adults are now irresponsible children in the comprehensive school of diversiteee run by our “professional” leaders. When teacher asks a question, you can be sure they have a “correct” answer in mind…

            Complain about a new streetlight keeping you awake at night and the very best you can hope for is that they’ll fit an ineffective £10 baffle. Whereas the one person who likes going out without a torch writes to the council and, voila, the money flows. Anyone then complaining about the loss of tranquility, devaluation of their house etc. gets treated as a pariah who doesn’t care about the public good.

            Like

      • 596
        Anonymous says:

        You should try landing in Otopeni Airport in Romania, if you believe that Heathrow or for that fact ANY of the UK is on 3rd world status.

        Romania and its capital Bucharest, is a dirty, dingly, flithy place to live in. With no healthcare system, Corrupt politicans, horrendous traffic and none existing road system, beggars, Gypsies and homelss people in the streets, dogs running wild in packs. Rubbish scattering the streets like leaves in autumn.

        Now thats a 3rd world nation.
        If i was you i wouldnt be getting to upset about how the UK fairs compared to other EU nations.

        Like

    • 220
      Thomas Knyvet says:

      The 17th C. Guido Fawkes was a Roman Catholic terrorist whose stated aim was to turn England into a Catholic state.

      The 21st C. Guido is no different. It appears that he seeks to destroy faith in English and British institutions, most likely with the aim of creating a vacuum into which he hopes the Church of Rome will move.

      Guido as long ago as August 2007 described himself as a “good and fertile Catholic”, and has over the years sought to encourage policy changes in line with the teachings of the Curch of Rome.

      Those of his readers who believe him to be a freedom loving libertarian may well find themselves at the mercy of the Domini Cani should he be successful in his quest.

      Like

    • 239
      Ampers says:

      Agreed. I don’t hate Roman Catholics (Protestants are Catholics as well so people should differentiate. Church of England worshippers have always said in their Creed, “I believe in the Holy Catholic Church…”).

      However, coming from South Africa, I detest, nay hate, the Chairman and Managing Director of the Roman Catholic Church. Let’s face it, to those few at the top it is big business run by unintelligent people.

      Unintelligent? They won’t make an exception with condoms for Southern Africa because they want more Roman Catholic babies. Don’t they realise they are losing adult Catholics and children at a faster rate, millions are dying and tens of million are H1V positive! I may be white but I depair at their plight and regularly give money to a small charity in Johannesberg who helps these people – and every penny goes to the sharp end as the organisers (twenty wives of doctors) pay all they own expenses and draw no salaries.

      But this is only one of the issues why I detest all “organised” religions. I am not an Atheist, and as a Deist I believe in a power over and above them and am beginning to think that power is Nature.

      Like

      • 281
        A non catholic says:

        I believe the church’s view is, that if you are a good Catholic and if you follow the doctrine, that you would only marry as a virgin to another virgin (as sex outside marriage is wrong) and then you would stay faithful within that marriage. IF you could maintain the sort of self restraint that Catholicism requires, then you could not possibly contract AIDS through sexual contact, therefore condoms are not necessary at all.

        The logic above is undeniably correct. If you are a Catholic and practice as a Catholic and lead your life as a Catholic, then you cannot get AIDS through sex. If you are a Catholic and do NOT practice and follow Catholic doctrine, by sleeping around, then you only have yourself to blame if you do catch AIDS.

        I am not, nor ever have been, a Catholic, and even I have maintained monogamous and faithful marriage of 20 years. The last 6 years of which we have both been celibate too.

        If I can do it as a non-catholic follower of no religion at all, (I have my own spiritual beliefs), then it cannot be too difficult for a Catholic to do so.

        Like

        • 309
          Ampers says:

          I accept your remarks, but you have to realise that the price of a condom is so high for many Africans that to buy one would mean missing out on a days food for their whole family.

          Like

        • 318
          A non catholics wife says:

          “The last 6 years of which we have both been celibate too. ”

          Speak for yourself limp dick!

          Like

          • A non catholic says:

            Well considering the reason for the celibacy is the massive psychological trauma caused to my wife after being sexually abused by her Father for many years since she was 4 years old.

            This means that after many many years of very expensive and extensive counselling and therapy we decided it would be easier on her, for us to maintain a loving relationship without sex. The therapy and counselling did not work and her psychological trauma is far to extensive for her to be able to cope with a sexual relationship.

            Do you think it is funny to make fun of victims of sexual abuse?

            Like

        • 463
          Anonymous says:

          no catholics have aids

          Like

        • 522
          Thomas says:

          What if you are raped by someone with HIV while in a marriage? Do you have only yourself to blame? Should you give up sex with your partner?

          What if you had HIV passed on to you by your parents? What if your partner is unfaithful and contracts HIV (presumably divorce is a non-starter…)? What if you already have HIV and then convert to Catholicism?

          I have always thought the Catholic wriggling to justify their murderous anti-condom stance was just bizzare and horrible. Pro-life? Bollocks.

          Like

          • A non catholic says:

            If you are raped, I think that the condom is a non-issue as you had no say one way or the other. Then you are a victim.

            If you convert to Catholicism and value life and the doctrines of Christ, and happen to already have AIDS, then you would abstain from sex. If one is not prepared to obey the rules of Catholicism, why the hell would someone want to convert to it?

            If you CANNOT obey the rules of Catholicism, then do not be a Catholic. I think it is highly presumptuous for people to attempt to follow a religion and then to question its rules as if they know better than all who have gone before. Why the fuck should a billion other Catholics change THEIR beliefs to accommodate people who do not want to obey the rules?

            If you are a practising Catholic, you should NOT ever behave in a way that would put yourself at risk from catching AIDS from sexual intercourse.

            I do not want to obey several of the rules of Catholicism, and I do not obey them, but then, I am not a Catholic.

            It is really very simple. Claiming that one would like to be a “good Catholic” and use condoms, is like claiming that you want to remain a law abiding citizen, and yet be allowed to steal with utter impunity.

            If you do not like the rules of the Catholic Church, don’t be a Catholic.

            Like

          • Thomas says:

            Don’t know why I can’t reply to you directly “A Non Catholic”. I agree with you. I think the many Catholics who don’t believe in Catholic doctrine should leave the faith (I think you overestimate the loyalty of many ordinary Catholics to the teachings of the Church hierarchy). I can’t see why anyone would want to convert to Catholicism, and think it is a shame that people do.

            What do you think about the claims from Catholic clergy that condoms “don’t work”, or the Pope’s claim that they are “part of the problem”? Surely that’s just irresponsible lying?

            I notice you have ignored my points about those born with HIV or infected by a cheating partner, and answered a different question to the one I asked about rape victims. I take it that you think that they ought to be celibate.

            Like

        • 599
          alexsandr says:

          Why would anyone want to be celebate?

          Sex is one of the best bits of being alive…
          (Legal sex that is)

          I am an athiest, but surely god botherers would want as a much sex as they can get as it is one of gods gifts, surely.

          Like

        • 759
          Squarebullet says:

          I always thought condoms were used to prevent conception, not just infection.
          Someone is missing something here. Do we really want ‘no intercourse without conception’? Better get ready for the Mars trip if we do, because there won’t even be standing room on this planet.

          Like

      • 561
        Dame Davina Pancake says:

        Sorry Ampers, but Protestant worshippers do not say “I believe in the Holy Catholic Church” – they say “And I believe in one catholic and apostolic Church” (Nicene Creed) – the capitalisation is important (catholic meaning universal in this context and NOT referring to the RC Church). The Apostles’ Creed says “I believe in…..the holy catholic Church”.

        Sorry to be pedantic, but hey-ho.

        Davina x

        Like

      • 635
        Anonymous says:

        The true meaning of the word Catholic universal as in “I believe in the Holy Catholic Church”” I assure you Anglicans are not into some tosser like the pope pretending to speak on behalf of God.

        Like

    • 300
      This Realm of England is an Empire. says:

      Dear Sir Robert Catesby and Sir Iqbal Sacranie,

      Can you please inform this realm whether the chief papist, or Supreme Pontiff & Dictator, is a castrato or evirato or musico, and whether the chief mohammedan, or Grand Mufti & Sheikh, is a bigamist or trigamist or polygamist. I am obliged as to your swift attention to this petty, ordinary, common, trifling query, on behalf of 4700 years of Western Civilization, Protestant Civilization, Christian Civilization, Hellenic Civilization, and Minoan Civilization.

      Your faithful servant,

      This Realm of England is an Empire

      Post Script: As you hate Englishmen and we hate the enemies of God, why do you papists, castratos, eviratos, musicos, mohammedans, bigamists, trigamists, polygamists, want to come to England?

      Like

    • 330
      sockman says:

      The Dalai Lama doesn’t hide rapists and paedophiles.

      Like

    • 442
      Anonymous says:

      Here, here. Dear Guido, what would Jesus have done? Remember this is the church of Jesus.

      Like

    • 546
      Anonymous says:

      Nobody noticed that the diagonal red stripes are missing from the flag flown by the Pope?

      If he wants to be treated with respect, then let him treat the nations he visits with respect – third world or not!

      Like

    • 580
      alexsandr says:

      Catholic church
      Priests abusing children – guilty
      Cover up of child abuse – guilty
      AIDS denyal – Guilty
      Saying using safe sex is a sin – guilty.

      I am not saying they are more or less culpable than other religions.

      But fawning to the man who personifies the above is not right. Especially as it is with our money.

      We need a proper debate now about completely secularising our state. And start with all those religious schools that are allowed to preach their dodgy doctrines.

      Like

    • 665
      The truth behind the headlines says:

      Cardinal Malachi Martin, said after leaving Vatican, that it had been taken over by Satsnists after the Second Vatican Council in the 60′s. That would explain all the child abuse that has occurred since then.Ratzinger us also a Satanist and a Freemason-check out his handshake, and the ‘Il Cornuto/’Hook ‘em Horns hand sign photo online

      Like

    • 764
      Anonymous says:

      Well a Hitler youth should know all about nazis and covering up crimes

      Like

  2. 2
    • 36
      Anonymous says:

      In which he rather misses the point that most of the “anti” commentators I’ve seen believe the Pope should be perfectly free to visit this country. What they object to is him being given the official welcome of a state visit and UK taxpayer funds being used to pay for his little jaunt.

      Like

      • 64
        journo garbage says:

        Queen invited him. If you’re really so upset about it, blame her ministers. In any case, given that Catholics have to fund a whole load of crap through taxation that they probably aren’t that keen on – including abortion clinics, illegal wars and Pride parades – I suspect most of them are unmoved by the “my taxes! my taxes!” line of argument.

        Like

        • 76
          Won't they go to Hell for that ? says:

          Their private faith has no bearing on how taxes should be spent since this isn’t a theocracy.

          Catholics should not expect other taxpayers to fund their faith schools any more than m_slims should.

          Nor should an extremely wealthy catholic church expect to be treated like royalty when the head of that faith is caught up in a storm of child abuse throughout the catholic church which repulses most normal people.

          Of course you could try and blame the government instead of the church for their own actions. You have, after all, tried blaming the media already.

          Which sections of the media or the government forced those Priests to do those unspeakable things BTW ?

          Like

          • A non catholic says:

            Can you answer why it is that the media are attacking the Church AFTER they have taken significant action to stop and prevent child abuse occurring in the future?

            Are there abusers in the media who feel threatened and who would be a lot happier if child abuse was still being ignored, instead of tackled?

            The Catholic church was wrong to cover-up abuse in the past, (and in many cases the media was complicit in the cover-ups as many media outlets refused to air these abuse allegations at all when people were desperately trying to expose it and stamp it out), but it seems strange to me that the media is going on an all out attack on the Pope and the Church AFTER they have taken concrete steps to tackle child abuse and stamp it out in the church once and for all.

            Why are the media not investigating and exposing the other places where the cover-up continues to this day? Within the other branches of the Abrahamic religions and within society in general?

            Just look at how the Holly Greig case has been ignored totally by the mainstream media and you can see how the media itself actively covers-up and hides child abuse.

            Child abuse is rife within social services and child protection, and the media will NOT touch the issue with a barge pole. So to answer your question….

            “Which sections of the media or the government forced those Priests to do those unspeakable things BTW ?”

            None of them FORCED them to do it, because they were probably too busy abusing children themselves to care, but only started screaming against the church when the church admitted it was a problem and took steps to tackle it and stamp it out.

            For years the media have covered up and refused to show programmes that independent programme makers have made which expose child abuse in high places in Religion, (Jewish, Catholic, Anglican, Islamic) and Government, the media, local authorities, social services and the courts system.

            It is not until the Enormous weight of the Catholic Church, which represents 1.5 BILLION people worldwide, takes action to admit, apologise for and tackle child abuse, does the media even admit it and then it attacks the church.

            That seem suspicious to me.

            Like

          • Won't they go to Hell for that ? says:

            Because of decades of the church covering up child abuse during which the media had little idea and even less proof they were doing it.

            Or were you expecting the media to report on something that hadn’t happened yet ? The uncovering of the systemic abuse is recent and still occurring. As are the questions as to who in the church covered it up and why. Your ‘faith’ that this has now all been uncovered is touchingly naive considering some of the most recent shocking revelations about widespread abuse. No doubt a Priest or the Pope can assure you that everything is fine now. You might even believe him.

            Who says the media aren’t investigating abuse ?

            I seem to recall the so called satanic ritual abuse ‘scandals’ and the Jersey ‘abuse’ were wall to wall in the media and they were proved to be complete bullshit.

            Like

          • Poor Bill says:

            We pay for that fu*king Marxist shit put out by the BBC

            Plus we pay for and feed that marxist whore Harperson and her brats

            Go back to Highgate Karl

            Like

        • 97
          Everard P Burgerpenis says:

          Bollocks.
          I have to fund drug clinics through my taxes even though none of my family take drugs
          My taxes fund pieces of modern art which I think are shit
          Childless people have to fund schools through their taxes

          What suddenly makes catholics so special ?

          Like

          • journo garbage says:

            Nothing. But if the Queen invites people on state visits, I think whining about it is lame. But hey, it’s a free(ish) country.

            Like

          • journo garbage says:

            (I say “nothing”, but I guess their being part of the One True Fold does make them a little bit special. Free admission, tho’.)

            Like

          • this coever up lark is catching on says:

            Why are you posting under the moniker ‘journo garbage’ Guido ?

            Like

          • Bomb's not jobs says:

            I’m with Journo garnarge on this. On a broader note the media treatment of the Papal visit almost seems designed to put Catholics back in the box . This country has gone back 300 years in the space of a month. The medis are deliberately splitting catholics off from being an integral part of society!!

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            “The media are deliberately splitting catholics off from being an integral part of society!!”

            In a way that they would never even contemplate doing with Muslims or Jews or Hindus, or just about any other ancient religion or ethnic group.

            It is good old fashioned bigotry and prejudice.

            I guess that the left wing hypocrites who imposed all the politically correct bullshit on us the last 13 years have had a massively frustrating impotence building up for years at their self-imposed inability to attack people based on religious grounds.

            That dam is bursting now and we see all those bigotted left-wing hypocrites gleefully attacking Catholicism in exactly the same way that they attack others for when they attack Islam or Judiasm, or any other ethnic or religious group.

            So much for diversity and multiculturalism. Perhaps the Guardian should be charged with inciting religious hatred?

            Like

          • straw man says:

            it’s the church implicated in the cover up and more specifically the Priests who did it NOT all Catholics

            the Pope is the head of the Church and responsible for the conduct of and instructions to the Priests and clergy

            would you have been happier if the media didn’t report on child abusing Priests and if so why ?

            Like

  3. 4
    nigel says:

    Ironically, if this bloke was a politician with a similar charge sheet, you’d be all over him like a rash. Gordon & Tony’s underlings were guilty of significantly less than the cover-up of chronic Child rape – and you went for the throat.

    Like

    • 8

      If it were true that the Pope was trying to cover it up, of course.

      Like

      • 20
        Concerned of Swanage says:

        What has truth got to do with your blog Guido? It’s nothing more than gossip dressed up with your own brands of bigotry.

        Like

      • 85
        He was. Your blind faith on the issue is a sick joke. says:

        Like

        • 90
          journo garbage says:

          Belgian church abuse raids ruled illegal

          A Belgian court has ruled that recent raids by police investigating alleged child sex abuse by Catholic priests were illegal.

          http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11252821

          Even the victims complained about the raids. The police screwed it up big time.

          Like

        • 93
          journo garbage says:

          The raids were illegal.

          That’s why the Church, and the victims, were so angry about them, and that’s why a court has now condemned the police action and said they can’t be used as evidence. The Belgian police screwed up.

          Like

          • Still some refuse to grasp the magnitude of this abuse says:

            “The raids were illegal ”

            Well thats all right then. The Police screwing up on technicalities is more important than what their raids uncovered.

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            “Well thats all right then. The Police screwing up on technicalities is more important than what their raids uncovered.”

            It is when senior police officials may be implicated in the same systematic abuse of Children too.

            When Catholic Schools and orphanages were used like shopping malls and these child abusers selected children ‘to order’ in order to abuse them at vile sex parties attended by priests, judges, police officials, and other government people.

            There was a reason that these raids were unlawful. It was to protect the police and others from the same charges that the Priests were charged with.

            Like

          • proof or I call bullshit says:

            “When Catholic Schools and orphanages were used like shopping malls and these child abusers selected children ‘to order’ in order to abuse them at vile sex parties attended by priests, judges, police officials, and other government people.”

            Like

        • 110
          journo garbage says:

          Raids were rule illegal by a court a few days ago – Google it. And, as the video points out, even the victims were furious with the police.

          Like

          • pedo filth says:

            In April, the Church was shaken when the Bishop of Bruges, Roger Vangheluwe, resigned and admitted to having sexually abused a boy before and after becoming a bishop.

            Like

          • what would a normal person find more disgusting, the raids or this ? says:

            Like

          • I've had enough says:

            Yes, his 15 year old nephew. That was not connect with being a cleric but with his homosexual pedophilia within his own biological family. His action was in his capacity of a trusted uncle who happened to be a priest.

            The Church in Belgium was and has conducted with the full involvement of leading secular experts on child abuse a full and necessarily confidential (at the request of victims who otherwise would not have come forward) until some tosspot left wing prosecutor sent his police in on a thoroughly cack handed raid which has now been ruled ILLEGAL.

            This anti-catholic witch hunt is the sport of the decade for the liberal atheist elites which in its virulence and rabble rousing with falsehood in innuendo is strongly reminiscent of that launched by that other atheist and humanist, Dr Goebbels on ‘pervert priests’ in Germany after the hard and uncompromising letter (read from all Catholic pulpits and printed ‘illegally’ Catholic presses ‘Mit brennender Sorge’. A massive attack on Nazi atheism and its evil. Priests died in this anti-catholic pogrom.

            Hatefulness (a blindness to natural justice) is alive and well in the British Left Wing establishment.

            Welcome, Holy Father.

            Like

          • the depths some are stooping to justify this evil behaviour says:

            “Yes, his 15 year old nephew. That was not connect with being a cleric but with his homosexual pedophilia within his own biological family. His action was in his capacity of a trusted uncle who happened to be a priest.”

            And those who were abused in almost every congregation in that country with priests raping and assaulting young parishioners ?

            What’s your excuse for those abusing Priests ?

            Like

          • Belgian Catholic Church sex abuse: we feared compensation claims says:

            There has been widespread anger that Belgium’s bishops have failed to apologise and begged for more time to deal with an independent report that uncovered sex abuse committed by at least 91 priests, other clergy or church workers in every congregation in Belgium, taking place over four decades.

            Like

          • M'lud says:

            You are completely missing the point. It is irrelevant to focus on whether the investigation has been carried out in accordance with all proper protocols. The admitted fact is that child abuse by priests in Belgium is so widespread that it affects all congregations. Do you want all priests who have buggered little boys to get off on a legal technicality?

            Like

          • Still some refuse to grasp the magnitude of this abuse says:

            Of course the victims were furious because this meant justice could not be served. What it certainly doesnt mean is that no Child abuse took place by those charged ( as taught to all Catholic Children ) with the forgiveness of sins and the bearers of the keys to heaven.

            Like

          • Groucho says:

            Presumably the victims were angry because by not following the correct procedures, the police wrecked any case they might have had

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            “And those who were abused in almost every congregation in that country with priests raping and assaulting young parishioners ?

            What’s your excuse for those abusing Priests ?”

            They were just joining in with the police and the Judiciary and the other Government officials who were also taking part in ritual and systemic abuse of children.

            Why single out the Catholics when they are all at it?

            Condemn ALL abusers. Stop focusing solely on Catholics and by so doing, helping to cover up other areas where child abuse is occuring.

            Condemn them all!

            Like

          • it's not fine EVER says:

            so your excuse is that “everyone is doing it” despite having zero proof of any of the others being involved in your ‘ritual’ conspiracy theory

            sorry but that won’t cut it

            there are other cases of child abuse that are reported and condemned
            BUT THAT STILL DOES NOT MAKE THIS ABUSE ACCEPTABLE
            HAS THAT FINALLY SUNK INTO YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULL YET ??

            Unbelievable
            how low will some people stoop to try and excuse this child abuse

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            TO: it’s not fine EVER;

            I agree with you that child abuse IS NOT FINE EVER. Myself and my wife are victims of child sex abuse and I fight every day to prevent child sex abuse wherever it occurs.

            There is MASSIVE proof it is happening all over the place and I am concerned that YOU seek to cover it up by solely focusing on the Catholics.

            I am NOT covering up the abuse which occurred in the Catholic church and have fought very hard for years to expose it. All the while being accused of being a wild conspiracy theorist and nutter, for even suggesting that Priests would ever do such a thing.

            It seems that you are content to overlook any other abuse and focus solely on the abuse which was widespread and was very wrong and was in come cases systematic within some parts of the Catholic church. I have NOT overlooked them and do NOT condone them and all the priests who committed those evil crimes against children should be punished severely for their crimes.

            I AM satisfied that after years and years of official denials, and the abuse of people trying to expose this evil, we have seen the Pope himself admit it took place and apologise for the abuse which now is admitted by all to have taken place and to put in place measures to prevent abuse. Is it enough? NO! Of course not. But it is a start which should be welcomed none the less.

            BTW, The victims, and some sympathetic priests who became whislte blowers, WERE sending documented evidence, physical evidence and photographs at the time to the police and media and these WERE covered up in exactly the same way as is happening today with cases of abuse in other areas of society.

            I have personally spoken to other victims of child sexual abuse who know that Judges and reporters and editors and senior police and politicians abused them. They are not taken seriously because the people who are in a position to expose this abuse and prosecute the evil abusers are the same people who committed the abuse and are covering it up!

            People LIKE YOU also do not believe them.

            Just like people LIKE YOU did NOT believe the victims of the Catholic Priests.

            Do you REALLY believe that this abuse was solely happening within the Catholic Church?

            Get a fucking CLUE!

            Like

          • assertion + paranoia = internet says:

            There is MASSIVE proof UFO’s are happening all over the place and I am concerned that YOU seek to cover it up by solely focusing on this issue.

            Strange ? Just writing something on the internet didn’t appear to make that true nor will shrill assertion.

            There’s something missing….

            Proof.

            Like the mountains of evidence against the Priests.
            And the complete lack of evidence for every media outlet, every politician, every policeman and every judge in the country being involved in some MASSIVE paranoid conspiracy and cover up of ‘ritual’ abuse. Nor any sane reason why they all would.

            How long before you accuse me of being in on this paranoid conspiracy ?
            Too late! you already did.

            Like

          • Oh FFS! just because one institution is guilty doesn't mean they all are says:

            do you REALLY believe that because it happened in the catholic church then it MUST be happening everywhere ?
            throughout the media, the government, the police and the judiciary ?

            time to up the medication, stop believing everything conspiracy theory is true or at least attempt to understand why the catholic church is a very special case where the conditions for such abuse to flourish were built in

            Like

    • 9
      gaunty-gait says:

      Gordon Brown and a host of his cronies, in Government, Police and the Media, helped the parent’s of Madeleine McCann escape charges of being involved in the cover-up of the death of their eldest child, then helped the fraudulent ltd company that masquerades as a “charity” to fleece millions from the public.
      I’m not a great fan of the POPE, but I am a lapsed catholic.
      Guido’s Dalai Lama point about the Dalai Lama is very valid.

      Like

    • 33
      Ben says:

      That could not be more true.

      If there were the faintest rumours of this kind about a politician Guido would be all over it. He’d publish and dare them to sue. This is so painfully hypocritical it’s quite staggering.

      Like

      • 84
        Anonymous says:

        well said Ben. Utter hypocrasy. Quido join s the ranks of the immune from recognising the simple truth grigade who normally reside in Whitehall.

        It didn’t take long for the infection to get him

        Like

        • 175
          I've had enough says:

          An individual politician is in the public arena and effects your life directly. The Pope does not. He, she or it makes laws.

          Catholicism is not compulsory.

          Like

          • Bomb's not jobs says:

            Good point!

            Like

          • Still some refuse to grasp the magnitude of this abuse says:

            According to the Pope, Catholicism is most certainly compulsary and Catholics are taught this, Catholics Believe this and when someone who is an integral part of this compulsary belief system abuses you it does get you down a bit !

            Like

  4. 6
    White Van Man says:

    BBC News have gone bananas on this story for the last four days, like there isn’t more important things to report on!

    Like

    • 10
      Knot-Gamble of the CEOP says:

      The media should take a look at Operation Ore + Jim Gamble’s role in covering up child abuse in the UK.

      Like

    • 178
      Dick the Prick says:

      Well said, Guido.

      Like

    • 343
      Unsworth says:

      Yes indeed – take a look at the Marxists giving it some at the TUC. Fucking unbelievable. Straight out of the 1960s. These people are a damn sight more dangerous than some paedo priests – and there are many more of them, too. What’s really worrying is that many of them are ‘responsible’ for the ‘education’ (or is that indoctrination?) of the next generation.

      Like

      • 547
        Ballstoyou says:

        Tell that to the victims of the paedo priests.

        Like

        • 620
          Unsworth says:

          And what about the poor fuckers who are victims of ‘State Education’ and ‘Educationalists’ – like you, eh? Just as scarred for life, and it passes down through generations, too. Shit education has fucked them up – as well as the whole country.

          I don’t hold any brief for these ‘priests’, but there are many more dangerous things than that.

          Like

      • 608
        alexsandr says:

        Unsworth. Remember they are mostly public servants taking paid for time off work for this union activity. Wonder what would happen if I was to ask for paid for time off work to pursue my hobbies?
        I imagine the response would include the word ‘off’ somewhere.

        Like

  5. 11
    journo garbage says:

    Remember, these are the people telling us that the Pope’s intolerant, hateful, and has no concern for child welfare…

    Like

  6. 12
    Chris says:

    The pope is as guilty as the priests who have abused children.

    He should be brought to trial

    Like

  7. 13
    I don't like child abusers says:

    I’d say a letter in which Ratzinger said all cases of abuse should only be referred to him and not the police is pretty damning evidence of a cover-up.

    I also find it curious that a self-proclaimed libertarian is mocking atheists or women’s right to choose what they do with their own body. A superiority complex about religious beliefs and a pro-life stance is hardly along libertarian lines. Do you think we atheists should shut up and not express our opinion about the Pope’s visit? This isn’t Saudi Arabia or Iran, though perhaps you agree with their rather harsh penalty for adultery and homosexuality. This is more a secular nation than a Christian one, and it’s our money as well that is going towards the £12m cost of hosting this man who actively helped protect paedophiles. In the meantime, let’s all go to the Creation Museum where we can learn how earth was created in 6 days 7000 years ago! Wow! Forget science, THAT’S factual!

    Like

    • 429
      Protestant and Pro Life says:

      Your argument “what women do with their own bodies ” is one used often by pro abortionists. The only problem with that argument is that it is not the womans body which is aborted but the babies. A minor point I know( sarcasm) but one that renders that argument irrelevent.

      Like

      • 441
        Galileos Ghost says:

        the egg or the sperm captain science ?

        sarcasm ? surely not ?

        Like

        • 461
          Anonymous says:

          they are indivisible by that point , thats why the woman is pregnant. Do keep up.

          Like

          • Galileos Ghost says:

            by what point ?

            breaking the cumulas cells or the zona pellucida ?
            meiosis or the calcium surge ?
            and how is a fertilised egg a ‘person’ any more than an unfertilised one ?
            why is the church against condoms if the sperm is not ‘sacred’ ?

            go back to your big colourful pop-up book of catholic monsters featuring the big scary devil and ghoulish ghost stories and exorcisms instead of pretending the church has anything meaningful to say about science

            You should stick to your pathetic excusing of real monsters, the pedo Priests, as rationality clearly isn’t your or the churches strong point

            try reading up on evolution while you’re at it but watch out for the big words and complicated heretical thinking

            Like

          • Protestant and Pro Life says:

            Galileos Ghost, your tiresome post is simply abuse which one comes to expect from the extreme fundamentalist atheistic movement. I disagree with you and you cant stand that can you ?
            I disagree with you not because of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church because as my moniker states I am not a Roman Catholic. I disagree with you because I think the obvious place to draw the line is at conception. Now I know that is inconvinient for folks who have babies aborted for reasons of convenience but there you go.

            I dont agree with the RC’s on the use of contaception I never said I did. Please keep to the point.

            I have read up on evolution as I have a degree in Science but again I have no issue with that and I never said I did. Please keep to the point.

            Like

          • Galileos Ghost says:

            sadly for you I’m not an atheist but agnostic
            better luck next time

            a lucky coincidence that the catholic churches teachings are that life begins at conception though ‘life’ isn’t a person as an amoeba is alive
            while you’re eloquent justification for your taking the exact same stance as the church is “it’s obvious”

            obvious like the world is flat obvious ?

            obvious liike adam and eve obvious ?

            or obvious like pretending you are not a catholic religious zealot obvious ?

            I believe monikers no more than I do in ghosts as my moniker is not intended to be taken as fact except perhaps by fools

            the point is anyone who thinks an abortions are done for “convenience” has psychological issues and a complete lack of empathy for those who have to go through a serious and often traumatic medical procedure

            or a religious zealot

            you choose

            Like

    • 551
      Ballstoyou says:

      And the big question is:

      IF GOD CREATED THE EARTH, WHO CREATED GOD!

      Like

  8. 14
    CASSOCK LIFTER THE THIRD OF ROME says:

    Ive altered a few boys in my time
    but i’m trying to kick the habbit

    Like

  9. 15
    I don't like child abuse says:

    I’d say a letter in which Ratzinger said all cases of abuse should only be referred to him and not the police is pretty damning evidence of a cover-up.

    I also find it curious that a self-proclaimed libertarian is mocking atheists or women’s right to choose what they do with their own body. A superiority complex about religious beliefs and a pro-life stance is hardly along libertarian lines. Do you think we atheists should shut up and not express our opinion about the Pope’s visit? This isn’t Saudi Arabia or Iran, though perhaps you agree with their rather harsh penalty for adultery and homosexuality. This is more a secular nation than a Christian one, and it’s our money as well that is going towards the £12m cost of hosting this man who actively helped protect abuse. In the meantime, let’s all go to the Creation Museum where we can learn how earth was created in 6 days 7000 years ago! Wow! Forget science, THAT’S factual!

    Like

    • 17
      journo garbage says:

      See earlier links re: the letter.

      Someone had better tell Ron Paul and Libretarians for Life that they’re not really libertarian. I suspect it’ll come as a shock.

      Like

    • 37
      Ben says:

      ‘Self-proclaimed libertarian’

      Self-proclaimed is right. Guido is libertarian of the Palin kind.

      You can do whatever you want… as long as it says so in the Bible. By which they mean, the bits of the Bible they are concerned with. Which means the bits that suit their world view. So actually… you can do whatever you like as long as it fits within their narrow world view.

      It’s not libertarianism. It’s the conservatism of a 6th form student who hates the government because he hates the government combined with the selfishness of a man who doesn’t like paying tax.

      Like

      • 41
        journo garbage says:

        Pro-life libertarians accord human rights to the human person prior to birth. Not all of them are religious.

        Like

        • 197
          science catholic style says:

          the sperm or the egg ?

          Like

          • smoggie says:

            When the sperm fertilises the egg: conception.

            Like

          • Galileos Ghost says:

            a fertilised egg is a person now

            what other teachings have you from on high oh learned one ?
            something about a wooden ark holding every species on the planet
            a planet which isn’t billions of years old of course

            Like

          • Abortion is simply for convinience says:

            So Galileos Ghost are YOU the authority on what constitutes a human being ? If not @ conception when then and why ?

            Like

          • Galileos Ghost says:

            it’s not a biological on/off switch nor is it medievil dogma from a church that had extreme trouble realising the earth orbits around the sun

            it need to be far more than a collection of cells however advanced
            awareness, self awareness, consciousness and the ability to fully process pain/pleasure while reacting with more than mere reflex would be a good place to start

            I don’t give a flying fuck what blinkered religious zealots think about this issue anyway and happily nor does British law or medical science

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            The Earth doesnt orbit around the Sun, it orbits around a point in space very close to the sun thats why the orbit is not circular but elliptical, do keep up.

            Like

          • Galileos Ghost says:

            actually they both orbit each other as the sun shifts minutely in relation
            to the earth which is how we discovered the first exoplanets

            do keep up

            we being science of course
            not the scary monsters ghosts and demons simpletons believe in

            but then I didn’t realise I was dealing with a desperate anal twat scrambling for anything to hang on to other than his pompous bumptiousness

            Like

    • 74
      Restandbthankful says:

      A bit like Jim Gamble wanting all instances of children being groomed be reported to him and not the police even Facebook have given in to him. Who is pulling his strings.

      Like

  10. 16
    THE BISHOP RODGER ALLBOYS says:

    Oh for the joy!
    Of a round arsed boy !

    Like

  11. 18
    anonemo says:

    His character is written all over his face, and it’s not pretty!

    Like

  12. 19
    I don't like child abuse says:

    There’s a country which believes in family values and is vehemently pro-life, supports gun rights and smoking in public places, teaches creationism, protects members of the establishment who commit child abuse, and has severe punishments for homosexuals, adulterers and atheists. To catholics and evangelical protestants, that must sound like heaven on earth. It’s called Iran. Perhaps you’d be better off there.

    Like

  13. 21
    rocknrolla says:

    The Guardian and BBC are now melting down since one of the Pope’s posse dared to point out that when landing in Heathrow one sometimes thinks that the plane has mistakenly landed in some 3rd world shit hole.

    They always bleat about tolerance but among the many things they won’t tolerate is any criticism at all of their plan to make the English a minority in England. We should treat everyone with dignity but there does not need to be immigration and we didn’t need it for the last 50 years. We could have offered work-permits, have a good life here, then return home when finished (employers, including the NHS to post a large bail they only get back one employer has returned home and also they have to provide their health care costs). Immigration can be brought to ZERO right now and not harm our businesses since they could use temporary work permits. Living in England was supposed to be the greatest honour. The Gurkhas are welcome to stay, everyone else can work then go home.

    Of course the establishment and many big businesses can’t wait until we’re an island of 100milion landless peasants fighting tooth-and-nail over ever lowering wages and ever-increasing prices.

    Sorry to rant, just the sanctimonious BBC/Guardian wailing about the Pope and then that MILF in America who won a primary (but the BBC keep stressing is really a vote loser in their eyes) was really getting frustrating – the fact that they are now going bananas over some guy pointing out the truth about their failed social experiment has pushed me over the edge.

    Like

  14. 22
    Jon Monday says:

    What ho Mongs, I see you’re mixing your politics, and religion today? Very nice. Very nice.

    Any Catholic apologists care to state categorically that they truly believe this pedo-smiled cosseted plant of Satan is in your eyes, G-d’s holiest emissary upon this Earth?

    Thought not. Go fuck yourselves Sunday clubbers. Don’t bring the almighty creator into your pathetic ritualistic gayclubs. Down with Religion – Up with religiousness. Save the Children and End Poverty. Kill yourselves.

    Allah Akbar.

    I am Jon Monday.

    Like

    • 254
      A Catholic Apologist says:

      The Pope is Gods holiest emissary upon this Earth!!

      Like

    • 276
      smoggie says:

      The discussion is bringing nutters out of the woodwork.

      Like

      • 466
        mongy says:

        they’ll be abusing kids and blaming the media for it next
        the nutters

        Like

        • 566
          A non catholic says:

          Unlike the Rabbis and the Immams who abuse children safe in the knowledge that the media will actively help them cover it up!

          Like

          • A.N. other nutter says:

            I’d like a link to a lunatic internet conspiracy website for ‘proof’ of this please. I will of course believe it all without question.

            Like

          • Jon Monday says:

            They love it up em.

            It’s their culture, you racist, hideously white mongoloid.

            Guido hasn’t the balls to go against his kosher handlers nor the muzzies so take it to stormfront with all the other embittered lonely de-politicised drones of Albion.

            I am Jon Monday.

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            To A N other Nutter.

            You know that people who have been trying to expose the systematic abuse of Children in the Catholic Church were also accused of being nutty conspiracy theorists and not believed, because the police and the courts and the media were actively covering up such cases where they did come to light.

            WHERE IS THE PROOF? we were asked. When we sent proof to the police and the media it disappeared.

            The Catholic Church could not possibly have kept these cases secret for decades without the explicit help of police and media and people in the courts, covering it up.

            Now suddenly it is open season on the Catholics because they have finally (after decades of pressure) admitted it went on.

            Like

          • they did so everyone does it says:

            So because the Church was guilty of systemic child abuse every other institution must be guilty of systemic child abuse

            you don’t see a teeny tiny paranoid flaw in your logic do you ?

            Like

  15. 23
    I don't like child abuse says:

    I love it when apologists for Ratzinger say every German HAD to join the Nazi Youth. Gotta love the perennial use of the Nuremberg Defence.

    Like

  16. 25
    Dw says:

    Nazi? He was in the Hitler Youth.

    Protector of paedophiles? Google Peter Hullerman.

    Guido regularly “crucifies” figures in his blog on far less evidence.

    Like

  17. 27
    anonemo says:

    Is this a face full of compassion for children? If this was a picture of Gordoom you would use it for the caption competition, in fact why not use it, the comments should be good.

    http://www.erlendaakre.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/pope1.jpg

    Like

  18. 30
    King Billy says:

    How bizarre to see a libertarian championing the Catholic Church, an organisation whose entire history is one of oppression, torture and the abuse of power.

    Even if the days of the Inquisition are gone, it is still a body that pursues power over people, and which will use any degree of misinformation to further that goal.

    Like

    • 325
      The irony of diversity says:

      You needn’t worry Mr. Fry. The chances of Britain becoming a Christian theocracy are zero.

      But thanks to people like you in the chattering classes, the chances of Britain becoming an Islamic theocracy are quite high I would say.

      Like

      • 451
        dogsled says:

        Its pretty simple really and its nothing to do with child abuse. Thats just an angle of attack. The Pope doesn’t like gays. A lot of people who work in the media are gay. = The media attacking the Catholic Church.
        By the way, I’m an atheist if anyone cares, which I doubt, so therefore couldn’t actually give a shit either way.

        Like

      • 571
        A non catholic says:

        Here here.

        I am not a Catholic, but I will defend anyone’s right to be a Catholic. Unlike those child abusing Immams of the more extreme end of the Islamic faith who are committed to turning this country into an Islamic Theocracy

        Can’t say anything against those though as that would be politically INcorrect wouldn’t it. Not following the fascistic “diversity” agenda is it?

        Like

    • 817
      Jackthesmilingblack says:

      Check Christopher Hitchens in the same debate.

      Like

  19. 31
    Ben says:

    If a politician had done what this man had done – covered up abuses to protect his colleagues and his institution – you’d be leading the charge.

    You’d be asking conspirators if they knew of any more such stories. You’d be posting allegations and dark insinuations. You’d be furious that public money was being spent on his visit.

    Why the double standard? Why are Ratzinger’s lies and evasions ok?

    Like

    • 91
      Portillo ??? Hague ?!? says:

      he wears lovely red shoes and has fabulous robes and clothes

      Like

    • 208
      A Pensioner says:

      Guido’s a mick.

      Like

      • 261
        concrete pump says:

        No he’s not.

        Like

      • 275
        Orangeman says:

        Guido’s another angry Paddy trying to spread his muck in the UK. Hypocritical twat. I’m off to read Old Holborn or that fucking clown. Less pontification and righteousness going on there. Just shows how deep the kafflik indoctrination goes. Child and female abuse in your corporate religion isn’t just physical. One child is too many. A zillion apologies aren’t enough. You’re too indoctrinated to see that, though Fawkes. Hang the fucking lot of them.

        Anyone for a bet how long before the popeman meets the same fate as Billy Wright??

        Like

        • 788
          Jacob Stoatgobbler says:

          Dear Guido, I believe Wikipedophile refers to you as a British-born Irishman, whatever that means.

          And as a Catholic owner of this blog you can stand up for whatever perversion of Mass Manipulation tweaks your peccadillo (obviously the tweaking should only take place in the comfort of your own Pecc over the age of 16 with no condoms or birth control whatsoever), so there (still not sure about the British born-bit though, does that make you British but anti-British)?

          Like

    • 324
      ST says:

      Damn right, the hypocrisy is gut churning.

      Also, I’m not sure how Guido’s libertarianism can be squared with a church that is against sex for pleasure. Although, I can see how a libertarian might believe the foetus’ right to life how can they possibly be against condoms?

      Like

      • 389
        Quango says:

        Can we end the myth that Guido is a liberatarian. Certainly his is a self proclaimed libertarian, but you only need to read this blog for a few days to realise this is a hollow statement.

        Like

  20. 34
    Paul Whicker the tall vicar says:

    This week my church will be holding a “fuck the pope” jumble sale. All are welcome. Except papists of course.

    Like

  21. 35
    Ben says:

    Oh, and while we’re discussing the obvious double standard at work here – that attacking politicians as liars and monsters is fine, but criticising the Pope is some sort of athiest/liberal plot…

    The simple truth is that the Vatican’s attitude towards condoms has killed more people with AIDS than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ever will.

    But I suppose it doesn’t matter. They mean well.

    Like

    • 39
      journo garbage says:

      Um.. any evidence for that? Pretty big claim you’re chucking out there.

      I mean, I suppose it’s possible that people who choose to ignore the Church’s teaching on sex before/outside marriage are suddenly seized by a desire to obey its teaching regarding artificial contraception, but I rather doubt it.

      Like

      • 401
        Fr Chesney was a terrorist says:

        It only takes one of the married Catholic couple having a shag to have a bit of a fling on the side to expose the faithful partner to the risk of AIDS.

        I went to a Catholic Mass once – proper Latin stuff as well, in the middle of Wiltshire. Weird. But I could never join such a corrupt organisation.

        Like

    • 40
      journo garbage says:

      I meant to add this:

      You might be interested to read what the director of the AIDS Prevention Research Project at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies said about the Pope’s view that condom distribution in Africa may exacerbate the problem of AIDS transmission.

      Like

      • 96
        or you could listen to those working the problem on the ground in Africa says:

        The director of the National Association of People Living with Aids, Nkululeko Nxesi told Reuters news agency: “The use of condoms provides us with a solution that ensures we scale down the rate of the epidemic.

        “You need a back up system and condoms provide that”.

        The bishops’ statement ignored increasing calls for the Catholic church to lift its opposition to the use of condoms to prevent the spread of the virus.

        Health workers have asked community leaders, including the clergy, to help promote the use of condoms.

        An estimated 25 million Africans have Aids

        A leading Catholic newspaper in South Africa had called on the church to relax its blanket ban, saying married couples should be allowed to use condoms in cases where one spouse was HIV positive.
        There are an estimated 25 million Aids sufferers in sub-Saharan Africa.

        Like

        • 122
          journo garbage says:

          Yeah, because what would the director of an AIDS Prevention Research Project at Harvard know?

          Like

          • M'lud says:

            A). If he is a left-footer – nothing.
            B). More seriously, did you read the article? The author confirms that condom use has been effective in reducing AIDS in Thailand and Cambodia so the principle is right. The problem in Africa is that for a number of reasons, spelt out in the article, condoms are not used enough. If they were, their use would be effective in reducing AIDS. But your lot would rather see them die.

            Like

          • Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. says:

            less than those who work in Africa everyday with the problem

            Like

          • journo garbage says:

            M’lud – he’s not a Catholic. But thanks for revealing that you’re a bigoted moron. Would never have guessed.

            Like

          • M'lud says:

            You clearly missed the “More seriously…” at the beginning of para B.

            As you may have seen from another post I am agnostic (although I accept that that does not mean I am not a bigoted moron), but my wife is Catholic and I am happy with that, although I do not share her faith.

            The point of my post is that you have used an article which concludes that the misuse of condoms in Africa has not resulted in a reduction in AIDS, to support your belief that condoms should not be used at all, despite admitted evidence in that article that their proper use does save lives. Now that is what I call moronic.

            Like

    • 259
      I've had enough says:

      That is unadulterated bollocks.

      Give the poor Africans condoms and all will be well.

      AIDS is a lifestyle issue and thus it is about behaviour. Men and women in Africa know that and also know that behavioural change not rubber will get AIDS under control and allow them to build effectivity in their communities.

      Condoms are cultural imperialism for the ‘can’t restrain themselves’ Africans..as if Africans are just rutting animals.

      I’ll say it again, cultural imperialists with boxes of condoms.

      Like

      • 344
        Bomb's not Jobs says:

        I think you have hit the nail on the head. What so many opponents of catholicism dont face up to is that it has a totally intellectually cohesive pro life stance. Basically its critic just want to enjoy the right of having Sex ad nauseum with anybody they choose and not give a damm about the consequences! All sorts of reasons are advanced in support of Abortion AND Contraception but it all amounts to people being selfish and ignoring the consequences of their actions.

        Just because we are human and fall short of the ideal is no reason why we should not respect the institution that actually preaches a sound moral blueprint as to how we should conduct ourselves!!

        Like

      • 455
        M'lud says:

        Oh get real will you. Of course if everyone could live according to your high standards there would be no problem. But life isn’t like that.

        And they all know that behavioural change is all that is required to eliminate AIDS? I suppose that Thabo Mbeki reinforced that point for them did he?

        So why are so many millions infected already with the disease still spreading at an alarming rate? Do you think the AIDS charities are not preaching behavioural change as well as encouraging the use of condoms? And what makes you think that it is only the cultural imperialists with the boxes of life-saving condoms rather than the local organisations as well.

        Get a grip.

        Like

  22. 42
    Concerned of Swanage says:

    Guido’s next scoop is easy. He reveals that he has been covering up child abuse cases for the Pope. If he’s lucky, he might even be able to send himself to jail. What a story!

    Like

  23. 43
    Peter Tobin says:

    Without the assistance of my friends in the Catholic Church I would never have been able to do what I did!

    Like

  24. 44
    Jimmy says:

    “because Catholicism favours a culture of life and family values inimical to the cultural mores of a Guardian editorial meeting. ”

    Still pretty mild compared to what your old chums did to Romero and those nuns I’d say.

    Like

  25. 45
    Guido's talking shite says:

    Guido, you’re on very thin ice here – not many Pope sympathisers. Why? Because like it or not there was an institutional attempt to cover up child abuse. If you don’t tell law enforcement agencies then it’s a cover up, whichever way you look at it. And religions don’t have a monoploy on moral/family values. I’m an atheist but I believe that a strong heterosexual relationship is the best environment to bring up children. But that doesn’t mean that gays live in sin or that abortion is murder, does it?

    I’m also very disappointed that your pulling the American trick of tallying religion to political bent – I’m sorry but some people are a bit more sophisticated than that. I’m a social liberal and economic conservative and I also happen to be a committed atheist – so what?

    Like

    • 404
      Pope a dope says:

      unfortunately it’s difficult to argue a logical point with people who are convinced that you will burn in hell anyway.

      Like

  26. 46
    Matthew says:

    Guido, it’s a bit rich for you to be complaining about the creation of visceral caricatures, bigotry, crucifying a public figure, false characterisation, or causing deep offense. And it is disappointing (if not particularly surprising) to see you getting so defensive now that these things are happening to someone you hold in high regard. Given that you like to peddle innuendo, get people sacked and then gloat about it, one would think your skin would be a little thicker. Frankly, on this evidence I’m inclined to see you as a coward who can’t take what he dishes out.

    Like

  27. 48
    caesars wife says:

    Rather hacked off wouldnt you say ? His Hioliness pope Benedict III will no doubt bring some much needed rebalancing , rather a shame you didnt think who may be fighting for the forces of light when you took the sheckel of the city/blind , still we all regret our sins in the light of wisdom , mela cupa

    Like

  28. 50
    tiny minded bigot says:

    What a load of rubbish as usual from Toynbee, who, in her “£2 million pound house in Clapham ,Sussex bolt hole and Italian villa is quite remote from what really matters to people in the United Kingdom. There are more members of nudist societies in Britian than of the National Secular Society, whose tediodus message , unchanged, has filled the Guardian letters pages for decades. Toynbee and her illiberal cronies would be better off in People’s China.
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Like

  29. 51
    caesars wife says:

    As day break becomes the broke back mountain of day time TV (yet ratings sore in the blackcountry who still pin there hopes that a WBA fan can get freinndly with the rimmel look of londons babes ) CW hears the names fincham , surely not the same finacham that busted R1, dave travis , and mike ried and ed to usher in the Imelda era , bound to work ! now that we understand how Imelad era worked . Should have stuck to the girl next door look ,like on one show and kept country gripped by should we we put chiles to sleep (as in vetnairiy) saga ongoing

    Like

  30. 52
    P. Doff says:

    A separate comment so as not to break the flow of the original #1 Comment and Replies… Am I being suspicious as to the pseudo credibility of some postings?

    1st post by “Richard Manns” (don’t remember his name here before) at 1:24am
    Reply by “journo garbage” (don’t remember the name here before) at 1:27am
    Reply (very lengthy) by Guido at 1:28am
    Plus another reply to a different posting by ”journo garbage” with 3 researched links at 1:26am

    That seems a lot of thoughtful writing and link research just in the space of the first 4 minutes by (apparently???) 3 different people!

    Like

  31. 53
    The Holy Father says:

    Grow up Guido and lose the imaginary friend

    Like

    • 56
      caesars wife says:

      Dont tell me your the bloke that publishes escher prints , and if you squint with one eye you can see what Labour present you as the truth !

      Like

  32. 55
    The Holy Father says:

    Even the children not physically abused by Catholic priests still suffer mental abuse at the hands of the church. Lying to a child that there is an omnipotent voyeur watching over them and they’ll go to hell if they don’t follow the bible’s nonsensical teaching.

    Like

    • 57
      caesars wife says:

      hawking dilemma : does heaven consists of atomic paricles ? erm rather like like light wavelengths , what if its somting that so far science is unable to detect ?

      Like

      • 285
        I've had enough says:

        Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

        Congratulations on your anti-science no 53.

        Like

      • 315
        Just Woke Up says:

        This nonsensical comment underlines the fact that you should have spent more time at school studying science rather that RE. Typical of your sort. You know bugger all about anything but feel the need to talk shite anyway.

        Like

      • 353
        ST says:

        Don’t talk wank. 150 years ago the likes of you would be saying magnetism is proof of God.

        If you believe in God fine, but don’t try and rationalise the irrational. Equally Richard Dawkins should fuck off trying to prove there isn’t a God through by his irrelevant recounting of evolutionary theory.

        For the record I’m a committed agnostic (it’s complicated, oxymoronic, and mainly to do with not wanting to be associated with a twat like Dawkins).

        Like

    • 129
      Sad git says:

      Of course 13 years of Liebour teaching lies in schools won’t have any effect on the kids.

      Like

      • 323
        Just Woke Up says:

        And their promotion of Blair’s faith schools. Divisive. Appalling. Faith school? The hypocrisy is built into the name.

        Like

      • 331
        Just Woke Up says:

        I wish people with strong political and religious ideas would just stay away from kids and let them learn by themselves using more than one fucking fairystory as a basis for everything they ‘believe’. The world would be a much better place for it. And anyone using the words ‘belief’ or ‘faith’ should be soundly beaten about the head with a science textbook.

        Like

    • 209
      Realist says:

      Indeed! And indoctrinating them into a faith before the age of consent.

      Like

      • 296
        I've had enough says:

        Right, so lets remove all children from indoctrination and construct a brave new social mindset based on our values. Let’s remove children from Islam, Hinduism, Sihism, Buddhism, and teach them about inclusivity and the joys of diversity.

        Parents can’t be trusted.

        Love it.

        Atheism…its the way to be and everyone should conform.

        How about freedom of belief and pluralism…and respect for the other. The Catholic other.

        Like

    • 308
      Just Woke Up says:

      Hear, Hear. All religious indoctrination of children is child abuse. Thank fuck my parents were not religious and my judgement has never been clouded by dogma!! I pity you lot that congratulate yourselves on your belief in the great sky pixie. The best slave is one who makes excuses for his master. Unfortunately the fact that all you religious bastards have a vote is where democracy fails humankind.

      And caeser’s wife has been sniffing the furniture polish again.

      Like

  33. 58
    C Gatt says:

    Oh dear, is Guido a johnnie-come-lately who, like Tony Blair, must be seen to defend one of the most despicable institutions Man created?

    As a person born Catholic and living in the claustrophobic reality of Malta I know something about Omerta within the church and society, and that is only the start of it.

    If you must believe in a supernatural hocus pocus by all means choose your flavour, but don’t let any instution get between you and your choice!

    Like

    • 81
      Restandbthankful says:

      Were you really born a catholic? Are we not born free of any labels only to have them attached by our parents. Some parents don’t attach labels and allow their children to choose for themselves in good time.

      Like

  34. 60
    Furious says:

    Get a fucking grip of yourself guido. The Pope is not very important to most of us in this country and spending tax payers money on his visit is a fucking disgrace.

    Like

  35. 61
    Selfish Jean says:

    Hey, lighten up Guido, hardly any ordinary people in Britain – voters, readers of papers other than the Guardian,the man on the Tuscan omnibus – have heard of any of these sub-BNP ranters who have an inflated opinion of their own influence.

    Like

  36. 62
    Cracker says:

    Microsoft is the dirtiest word in the English language. The software that rapes our brains. Is he an RC too? Linux for ever!!

    Like

  37. 66
    Muuurty's Ghuuurst. says:

    There remains a degree of honesty within the catholic church though. For example, the German cardinal that described the country as ‘a third world shithole’ or similar.

    Not sure why, but he’s been sacked from the latest gig.

    Like

  38. 68
    Stephen Procter says:

    Guido, perhaps you should stick to politics on this blog. I thought you were joking about being religious at first, but it would appear that you are in earnest. I do not come to this web site to read about religion. If this religious thread continues I will probably move my eyeballs to Iain Dale’s diary.

    Like

  39. 73
    Time to stand up and be counted says:

    Atheists are like gayers and socialists. They believe they are right, everyone else is wrong and pass totalitarian laws to enforce their views.

    Like

    • 86
      Mr Plum says:

      Not religious myself nor a believer but quite happy for the pope to visit, its not costing much in the scheme of things, most of the expense will be for protecting him from nutters you mentioned above.

      Like

    • 87
      M'lud says:

      This must be one of the most stupid comments i have ever read on this blog. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

      Like

    • 155
      concrete pump says:

      Nice assumption, dickface!!

      Like

    • 637
      The Holy Father says:

      What totalitarian laws have atheists passed to enforce their ‘we don’t believe in god’ views?

      What atheists object to is their money being wasted on bullshit fairy tales and those same bullshit fairy tales being forced on the vulnerable.

      You want me to help fund this insanity? Then you have two tasks
      1 – Fucking prove it.
      2 – Why can’t God fund his own followers? All-powerful my arse.

      Like

  40. 75
    The Ape Man Commeth says:

    “Their reckoning will be eternal.”

    Any proof of that?

    Can’t agree with the Guido line on this one.

    Truth is the catholic church has enough blood on its hands over the last 500 years, the Albigensian Crusade and the Inquisition being just two examples, that, were they to be the institution for good they claim to be, they would have dissbanded themselves out of respect for all the suffering and misery they have caused. This latest nightmare is just another in a long line of the shamefull actions of a deeply problomatic entity, that belongs to a primitive mind set and culture.

    Like

  41. 79
    Anonymous says:

    Their reckoning will be eternal.

    Not if they have been granted Absolution after a 5 minute confession!!

    Like

  42. 80
    M'lud says:

    I don’t know where to start with this as your assertions are wrong on so many levels, but let’s go with the comments that the problem of child molestation is limited to a small number of renegade priests. Er, no.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/belgium/7999965/Belgian-catholic-church-needs-more-time-to-deal-with-child-abuse.html

    The RC church openly admits that it is so widespread that it has happened in “every congregation”. And they basically have not got a fucking clue what to do about it:

    “The challenge is so big and touches on so many emotions, it seems impossible to us to present a new proposal in all its details,” he said.

    What a fucking cop-out. But they do say that “in future” they will take action.

    How long has this scandal (let’s remember, child rape by grown men which has led to at least thirteen suicides in Belgium) been around? But the church will take action “in future”. So that’s alright then.

    But how do we know they will when the whole church there says it has not got a fucking clue how to deal with it?

    Like

    • 136
      journo garbage says:

      http://www.newsweek.com/2010/04/07/mean-men.html

      The Catholic sex-abuse stories emerging every day suggest that Catholics have a much bigger problem with child molestation than other denominations and the general population. Many point to peculiarities of the Catholic Church (its celibacy rules for priests, its insular hierarchy, its exclusion of women) to infer that there’s something particularly pernicious about Catholic clerics that predisposes them to these horrific acts. It’s no wonder that, back in 2002—when the last Catholic sex-abuse scandal was making headlines—a Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll found that 64 percent of those queried thought Catholic priests “frequently” abused children.

      Yet experts say there’s simply no data to support the claim at all. No formal comparative study has ever broken down child sexual abuse by denomination, and only the Catholic Church has released detailed data about its own. But based on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue. “We don’t see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else,” said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. “I can tell you without hesitation that we have seen cases in many religious settings, from traveling evangelists to mainstream ministers to rabbis and others.”

      Like

      • 152
        M'lud says:

        Ah, so others are doing it too. That makes it OK then.

        Like

        • 192
          journo garbage says:

          No, it just puts your fixation in perspective. If murder rates in France, Spain, and Britain are the same, and a person keeps ranting about the “murderous French”, “the slaughtering Frogs and their institutional murder system” etc., then my conclusion will be that they’ve probably a bit of an anti-French bigot.

          See how the analogy works? I can explain if not.

          Like

          • M'lud says:

            Thank you for the kind (and condescending) offer re the analogy, but I can just about get there myself. Your response of course starts with “If”.

            I am happy to accept that there may be no evidence either way. I would only observe that there have been disturbingly high number of cases within the RC church in many countries and that it’s leadership has been rather slow to grasp the nettle and deal with it, and to focus on the victims rather than the reputation of the church. I applaud their efforts to do so where they are making a proper effort, but the response in Belgium is simply shameful.

            And I have no “fixation” apart from the RC stance on condoms.

            Like

          • infallible my arse says:

            never try calm reasoned logic on a religious zealot
            it only infuriates them and confuses their tiny minds

            Like

        • 201
          A non catholic says:

          No, but at least the Catholics are doing something about it now. What are the others doing? FUCK ALL!

          So people sit in sanctimonious ‘holier than thou’ criticism of the ONLY global faith that is taking action to tackle the problem! You would think that people who oppose sexual abuse of children would be happy to help the Church in this instead of lambast them.

          Child sex abuse is rife throughout society, at every social level and in every profession. Doctors, Nurses, judges, care workers, teachers, nursery school assistants, social workers, scout leaders…. you name it, they are doing it.

          We should NEVER forget what abuses the catholic church committed, but we should also congratulate them for the admission it happened and encourage them now to continue to out the abusers and take further steps to tackle child abuse.

          We should also widen this to include ALL organisations who STILL have abusers in them and who STILL cover it up.

          Like

          • Andysdog says:

            Taking action 30, 40 or 50 years after the event could hardly be classed as prompt and effective can it?

            Like

          • A non catholic says:

            Andy, when did I claim that this was prompt and effective action? Clearly the current Pope’s actions are way too late for many victims.

            However I am congratulating the Pope for belatedly taking ANY action against child abuse. It is finally a step in the RIGHT direction. There needs to be many more such steps.

            It would seem that a lot of people would be far more comfortable in their own bigotry if the Pope had taken no action whatsoever and carried on the cover-up of child abusing priests.

            There are many in the highest levels of the government and media who wish that is what he had have done.

            Like

  43. 82
    Rational Non Catholic says:

    Spot on Guido, a brilliant piece. I have many reservations about Catholicism, but have been nauseated to the pit of my stomach by the C4/Guardian/Axis anti-Catholic propaganda. I am, incidentslly, still waiting for a media investigation into child abuse in the Islamic world.

    Like

    • 99
      ddd says:

      Probably loads of it in the Islamic world, since they’re a bunch of irrational repressed homos, just like Catholics.

      Like

      • 212
        A non catholic says:

        There is loads of it in every religion.

        Beyond religion there is loads of it in Social services and child protection services, the police, local authorities, magistrates, health care and elsewhere.

        Where people abuse the secrecy of the family courts to steal children from loving homes to order to place with foster and adoptive families involved in child abuse rings, worse than that, thanks to the financial rewards created in the adoption targets, many social workers are profiteering from it too.

        Like

      • 339
        Google says:

        The greatest number of hits on paedo-porn in the Internet come from IPs in the Islamic world say those who police the net.

        Like

    • 108
      Sad git says:

      It’s all about available money the Guardian/whatever see popey coming over here and taking available money from the faithful back with him,this will leave them to find another scam to relieve people of their money,kiddy fiddling I think he got caught out on and definatly deserves an early roasting in hell but then we have Bliar and the Scottish mafia to explain why over Dunblane etc etc.

      Like

    • 260
      Rational Non Catholic says:

      I have succeeded in finding out who is the head of BBC religious broadcasting. It is Aaqil Ahmed.

      Like

  44. 83
    Hereis one way to cut the deficit. says:

    Small wind Mills are a swindle. They consume more energy than they produce. I hope Dave take’s note and stops their subsidy

    http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6954?nocomments

    Like

  45. 88
    atheist says:

    are we talking here about a bloke who believes, and tells others, that he has a direct communication line with the western god we see in hollywood musicals?

    the same bloke who has a nation state all of his own and has vast wealth within its walls?

    someone who preaches a somewhat archaic way of life and at the same time wants to hide abuse?

    someone invited to my democratic (sic) country without my approval but for which I have to pay?

    you know, travel around this planet of ours has been severely restricted because of ‘religious zealots’ in recent years; the relapse into religious moralising is not a good sign for the health of the nation; wars are continually neing fought, needlessly, on religious grounds.

    WHERE IS THE PEACE?

    Like

    • 95
      atheist says:

      Your comment is awaiting moderation.

      funny that

      Like

      • 216
        Voice of Treason says:

        It’s not surprising. Guido is obvously a left footer and doesn’t like home truths about fairy tales he believes in.

        Like

        • 236
          lol says:

          You are David Aaronovitch and I claim my five shekels.

          Like

          • Jon says:

            Many of the comments on here show how convincingly some people have been brainwashed by the BBC and the Guardians leftist agenda which attacks any organisation which opposes their agenda of cultural marxism.

            Like

          • Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

            Bollocks! Many people simply realise that Catholicism is utter bobbins and we dont need a former nazi in a stupid hat professing morality at us whilst he covers up ..etc etc.. se above

            Im no sandal wearing leftist tosspot, Im more of a right wing heavy boot wearing tosspot.

            Having utter contempt for religion is pretty universal accross the politcal spectrum in my xperience, its not some marxist plot.

            Like

          • Voice of Treason says:

            Better that than being brainwashed by ignorant sand arabs who believed the earth was flat and that the Red Sea was parted by a certain you know who. It’s you Jon that haa been brainwashed.

            Like

          • Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

            Sorry, I have no idea how but my comment below was meant for a completely different part of this thread.

            Maybe god moved it here to f*ck up my message of intolerance and hatred towards his botherers..

            Like

  46. 92
    Ben 'buggering' Bradshaw MP: ex BBC cunt, and right on massive arse-bandit of socialisms says:

    I appreciate I am a disgusting degenerate gay, but I wonder if Cafflick Priests would be such immense kiddie fiddlers if they were allowed to bugger other Priests?

    Like

    • 215
      A non catholic says:

      Probably, being allowed to have sex with adults does not prevent Rabbis, or Immams, from abusing children.

      Like

  47. 94
    T.B£iar - the People's Messiah says:

    New Liebour, under my leadership, can claim all the credit for turning this Country into a Third World country. Third World imports are Third Way supporters.

    Like

  48. 100
    Tapestry says:

    You think Social Services any different. Paedophiles know how to find victims. Get into a position of trust with access to children. The cases that are uncovered are always thirty years out of date.

    You think it doesn’t go on still? IT’s kept out of the public eye. That’s all.

    Secrecy is the problem. Family Courts operate entirely in secret.

    Nice to see that Guido cares about something occasionally other than political expenses, or shagging the payroll.

    Never mind the Catholic Church.

    The EU is most favourable to paedophiles. The Lisbon Treaty includes paedophilia as a sexual orientation to be protected from prejudice. All previous Treaties expressly excluded it from the list of permitted sexual orientations. Paedophiles are now less likely to be imprisoned. Some EU politicians openly express sympathy for paedophiles, and have campaigned for its legalisation. Children have never been more at risk.

    Like

    • 528
      A non catholic says:

      Amen. I thought I was a voice in the wilderness, for a while.

      Disgusting child abusers in social services abuse the secrecy of the family courts to profiteer from stealing children to order to place into child abuse rings.

      The same media that is attacking a Pope who is now taking action against abusers in the church, refuse utterly to cover this real and ongoing-systematic abuse at all.

      The child abusers in the media are terrified of being the next bunch of perverts to be outed!

      Like

  49. 103
    ddd says:

    Yeah Guidos moderation software is in full swing, you have to be careful not to mention:

    “Pope”

    and

    “systematic rape of children”

    in the same sentence.

    Like

  50. 104
    M'lud says:

    “Their reckoning will be eternal.”

    Well, that may or may not be the case. You believe it, and that is fine, I respect your right to do so. But there are millions of others, including lily-livered agnostics like me who just can’t make up their minds, who think they are getting/have got off scot-free with their vile and disgusting crimes for which they should be locked up and have the key thrown away in this lifetime, instead of gambling that there might be some retribution coming down the line.

    Like

    • 445
      helpful says:

      Agreed! Justice must not only be done but must be seen to be done. Not had any reports from the eternal damnation place yet and so justice is not seen to be done.

      PS was brought up as a Catholic and studied all that crap, I can still remember the Catechism and getting walloped for not knowing it well enough.

      Like

  51. 107
    Jess The Dog says:

    This is beginning to annoy me. It’s a state visit by a religious leader who will shake some hands, wave at lots of people from a car, and say some prayers. It’s not Mugabe or Blair FFS. No one is forced to be a Catholic and people can join whatever church they want if they don’t like it. The media should return to reportage and militant atheists are conspicuous mainly by their inconsistency in attacking certain faiths and not others.

    Like

    • 128
      Anonymous says:

      Don’t be silly, militant atheists would shit themselves with fear regarding any negative comment about Pisslam.

      Like

      • 488
        Enjineer says:

        Didn’t realise criticism and mockery was all it took to be militant. Glad I found out though, AK’s and RPG’s are expensive – and gobbing off on the internet is free. Win!

        And because you don’t fell Islam is getting enough stick – here is some just for you.

        Islam is an anti-reality supersticious delusion than damages it’s adherents ability to think to various degrees. It has a pure evil fundamentalist streak that is anti human rights, hell anti all human progress in the last 2000 years. The fact that a large percentage of it’s adherents live in parts of the world that it would be generous to describe as 13th century shiteholes just makes it worse for the rest of us on planet reality.

        There yo go. Suck on that Mohammed.

        Like

    • 180
      concrete pump says:

      ‘No one is forced to be a Catholic’.

      Are you having a fucking laugh, i had no fucking choice about it, neither did millions of others!!

      You ask a baby at his/her baptism if they’d rather not bother.

      What a fucking stupid fucking comment.

      Like

      • 312
        Bomb's not Jobs says:

        A valid point Mr Pump. But since becoming an adult you enjoy an absolute right to reject your Catholic inheritance. The Roman Catholic church does not call for the death sentence for those who have left its ranks. Quite unlike Islam!

        Like

        • 350
          concrete pump says:

          I certainly rejected mine, but it took a while, the indoctrination a catholic gets whilst growing up is oppressive – much worse in Ireland, mass every fucking morning, the angelus at 6pm every fucking evening, confession every 2 weeks – you’re reminded of ‘hell’ all the fucking time .

          It’s not as bad here in England, but shaking the fear of god was hard and i’ll never, ever forgive the church for forcing me, under pain of hell to ‘have faith’.

          There are some wankers on this thread accusing ‘non believers’ of being indoctrinated by the bbc and left wing press, these people obviously have no fucking idea what it’s like to be brought up a catholic.

          Like

      • 351
        I had no choice but my mum did, I'm pleased to say. says:

        Your parents had you baptised. They went to the priest and arranged it. Ask them why they thought it would be a good thing.

        Like

  52. 114
    Anonymous says:

    Good on the media if they are bashing the pope! As long as they bash all other such cult leaders equally. Wouldn’t be fair to just pick on one bunch of loonies now, would it?

    Like

    • 321
      Bomb's not Jobs says:

      Dont hold your breath.. A month long onslaught against Islam or Jews or Hindus. Seems incredible to even think about it. No the first priority of the western media is to sideline the Christians.

      Like

    • 356
      I feel it to the depths of ny being says:

      Ah, but the Moslems are ‘noble savages’ and Catholics around the world are, well, Catholics and probably Irish and German and Nazi and and….ugh Catholic.

      Like

  53. 121
    Jack says:

    I quite agree with you Guido

    And just think of the Guardianistas’ outrage if similar attacks were made on Judaism or Islam…

    Like

  54. 124
    Eileen Critchley says:

    Dawkins

    Like

  55. 126
    Bob says:

    Guido

    There is a firther point worth making in this context

    Human Rights as we know them originated in Christianity

    Not in ANY OTHER religion…

    Like

    • 364
      shocked says:

      There weren’t any human rights before Christianity? Was it okay to steal before Christ appeared on the scene?

      Like

  56. 130
    ERRATA says:

    ‘bigotry dressed up in rationalist clothes.’

    pederasty dressed up in Ratzinger’s robes

    Like

  57. 131
    Boudicca says:

    If YOU want him here, you pay for it.

    I don’t care if he comes because I’m not a Catholic and I’m not interested in listening to his medieval views on anything.

    The Vatican is not a country. It is only accorded the status of a State because of Italy’s history. This should not be a State visit – it is a religious one. The Catholic Church and all the people who support it should be paying – not me.

    Like

    • 354
      enlightenment says:

      FAIL

      The Vatican is actually recognised as a country under international law.

      Like

    • 363
      Cardinal Kasper says:

      But your country pays Billions of pounds every year to people who visit and then dont leave!! I think you are being a bit Churlish! By the way the vatican is a real country over which Italy enjoys no jurisdition!

      Like

  58. 133
    why doesn't the Media attack the Muslim Faith? says:

    Quite right Guido.

    The gay crowd at the Guardian and BBC have got their knives out for the Pope. The Bible is quite clear on homosexuality..Don’t Do It.

    Also Honour killings happen everyday in the muslim community but the media mostly overlook it and instead concentrate on what happened in the past in a few Catholic churches.

    I suppose a victim of abuse is better telly and news print than the silent victim of a honour killing.

    Like

    • 150
      why is the media and public so upset over child abuse ? Duh!! says:

      The Pope is quite clear on homosexuality..Don’t Do It, unless you’re a Priest and it’s a child. Then you cover it up.

      Like

    • 156
      M'lud says:

      “Also Honour killings happen everyday in the muslim community but the media mostly overlook it…”

      Have you read a newspaper or watched the news on television over the last couple of years at all, or have you been stuck down some Chinese or Chilean mine?

      Like

      • 166
        What does the first B in BBC stand for? says:

        Every time i turn on the news the BBC is taking a pop at Catholicism and sucking up to Islam

        Like

    • 514
      Andysdog says:

      The BBC which is apparently so anti-pope is currently braodcasting 3 fucking hours of him visiting Edinburgh

      Like

      • 650
        Anon says:

        Yes, and using every other sentence to bring up the mudslinging ad nauseaum, then in mock-compassion that the Pope can’t get away from subject because it’s constantly being discussed!

        Like

  59. 135
    Anonymous says:

    The English being naturally anti-Catholic, in a nonchalant, neutral kind of way, will mostly casually agree with the anti-Pope propaganda. But the ‘celebrity’ protestors are mostly champagne socialist/Marxist types, which should ring alarm bells, as they are on their own leftie agenda.

    The lazy/ignorant/duplicitous journalists will not attempt to give a balanced or informative view. This intelligent article by Michael Burleigh is well worth reading.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/the-pope/8003621/The-Pope-deserves-better-from-Britain.html

    Like

  60. 138
    Mark Rugman says:

    Can you name another organisation which you agree should be permitted to investigate these accusations rather than referring their files to the police? What gives the church right to operate independently of natural justice?

    Like

  61. 139
    Anonymous says:

    The Catholic Church is an Institution

    The Pope is head of that institution.

    An Institution that has failed to protect 1000s of children from abuse, sexual
    molestation and rape.

    Ipso Facto, Guido.

    The facts remain, people will blame.

    http://www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/2010/09/amnesty-international-raises-concerns-ahead-of-popes-visit/

    Not to mention, the cost ( too which you alluded )

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/05/popes-uk-visit-cost-12m

    Perhaps if the Church wern’t so un-progressive or quite so unreasonable, not to mention transparency rather than the murky translucency which seems to pervade the institution.

    Perhaps now he thinks taking the nazi path he left behind, would have been easier?

    Like

    • 399
      Get real says:

      You have to be joking. By no stretch of anything but a bigoted and somewhat delusional imagination could anyone say that Ratzinger was a Nazi. Catholics were not allowed to be Nazis that’s why Nazis detested Catholics….they preferred Islam. But that is not Islam’s fault. Although there were Nazi SS Islamic regiments who specialised in atrocities against the Serbs. Oh, and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and many ‘heroes’ of Pakistani and Indian Liberation from the British Tyranny.

      Like

  62. 142
    keddaw says:

    “Our children are being constantly bombarded with messages from the secular media to distrust those good men that baptised them,”
    Indoctrinated them before they were old enough to choose.
    “…offer them communion at mass every Sunday,”
    Make them think that cannibalism is OK – either symbolically or actually depending on your interpretation.
    “…confirm them in their faith,”
    Pressure a youngster to buy into the false us vs them (saved vs unsaved) dichotomy.
    “…educate”
    Teach them only about one religion, that abstinence is the only way, that sex before marriage is wrong, that masturbation is shameful, etc. etc.
    “…and marry them,”
    Keep them in Mother Church so that their offspring are also indoctrinated.
    “…comfort us in sickness, read us our last rites and bury us.”
    Give people false hope and also, possibly, leave some of their possessions to the Church.

    And I didn’t even mention the bad stuff the Church does!

    Like

    • 219
      sockpuppet #4 says:

      The great thing about the church of england is that its so much easier to ignore them

      Like

      • 371
        Cardinal Kasper says:

        I didn’t know the English had their own church. How interesting tell me more about it. Does it believe in anything?

        Like

        • 381
          atheist says:

          nah, they wear funny hats too

          Like

        • 518
          Enjineer says:

          It’s more of a middle class social club for Daily Mail reading types who don’t like the fact the world is carrying on without them.

          I have a soft spot for the CoE though. It’s like an inoculation against the serious religious stupid.

          Like

          • Empty church says:

            What like claiming Shira law is inevitable in the UK?

            Thank God we have the CofE to protect us all from religious extremism.

            Like

          • Enjineer says:

            No, I meant it is probably the least damaging religious tradition to be brought up in.

            I don’t particularly want to indulge your non sequitur, but what is the Pope doing to protect us from religious extremism exactly?

            Did I miss a story about eep cover swiss guards in ubergay pantaloons tapping Bin Ladens satphone or something?

            Like

  63. 146
    matthew hopkins says:

    Sorry Guids, got to agree with some of the above. If you applied the same welcome passion for rooting out corruption, hypocrisy and malfeasance you would be leading the “crusade” against Herr Ratzinger.

    This does you no credit.

    Like

  64. 149
    concrete pump says:

    As a lapsed catholic (atheist, you can’t just hand your membership back) i really am surprised at your rant, Guido.

    It sounds to me that you ignored catholicism earlier in your life and now you’re making up for it to appease your (possibly) angry god.

    Whatever the lunatics from the beeb or the guardian say, you’re not making yourself look rational.

    As for your, “Their reckoning will be eternal”. Do get a fucking grip.

    Like

  65. 153
    concrete pump says:

    FFS, Fawkes, you can’t handle the idea that there might be right wingers out there that are atheists, can you?

    Fucking pathetic!!

    I’m right wing, atheist and proud, fuck you.

    Like

    • 185
      sockpuppet #4 says:

      I was thinking the other day about Churchill. He strikes me as a “go to church with the wife but keep your mouth shut about what you might believe in” sort of chap. My grandfather had such “beliefs”.

      Churchill made all sorts of stirring speeches, and never resorted to mentioning God etc.

      Like

    • 231
      Can't remember my moniker says:

      I prefer the description ‘non-theist’. Atheism runs the risk of falling into all the other theist traps of claiming to know what we don’t know, or even can’t know. There are severe limits to our knowledge which we breach every day of our lives. Far better in my opinion to accept that I do not know everything but the issue of the existence, or otherwise, of a God is one of the less, or even least, necessary things for me to expend my limited resources of time and concentration on, as it will in all probability yield no reward.

      As Bertrand Russell wrote:
      “If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.”

      Like

  66. 154
    Jolly Jack Tar says:

    Where is Drake when you need him? The Armada is on the way and Drake’s Drum is banging away. Up an’ at ‘em lads!

    Like

  67. 160
    Jess The Dog says:

    This will all be in Private Eye, in that messsge board spoof.

    Like

  68. 161
    Anonymous says:

    Seriously Guido.

    Your apologist for this nonce protector does not no service at all.

    Like

  69. 163
    Colonel Blimp. says:

    How any thinking, intelligent person can believe in ANY “god” is, well, unthinkable.
    The Catholic version is particularly weird, with men dressing up in fancy clothes (!) and threatening hell to those who don’t worship statues.

    Like

  70. 164
    Faust says:

    In my experience (I have a lot I am old) you will find a higher proportion of bigots and hypocrites who are religious. They are also more likely to be stupid and dishonest. In short I dont like them. I dont like Christians, Muslims or any other religious nutters. They are all misguided. In time all these religions will collapse as have many other before.

    All religions are there do serve the purposes of an elite and to control the uneducated. Yes Guido that includes you.

    Like

  71. 167
    Open minded, but says:

    Really? If you were living in Scotland you wouldn’t think so. Press here falling over themselves to present it as a great thing. They don’t want to upset a small percentage of the locals you see.

    Like

  72. 169
    Sharon says:

    If the Catholic Church didnt demonify those who are homosexual or treat women and their bodies as second class citizens then would have more sympathy. Like most modern religions it is patriarchal and narrow minded. I would rather live an ethical and moral life than a religious one.

    OK, maybe I over gener? alise but you get my points dont you

    Like

    • 386
      Cardinal Kasper says:

      In no way does catholic teaching treat homosexuals or women as second class citizens!! it stresses the sanctity of all life from the point of conception!!

      Like

  73. 170
    Peter James says:

    “Crucifixion of the Pope”? Well, if it’s good enough for our Lord…

    Like

  74. 171
    Tankboy says:

    Roman Catholicism is just a totalitarian group that uses the teachings of Christ’s, twists the meaning to suit their own needs – in order to control population.

    One has to go deep in the History of this massively wealthy organisation – why was it that the one body that had oppressed Jesus and eventually killed him – ROME – decided to adopt Christianity.

    It was simply because the Christian movement in Europe was becoming so strong that Rome was losing control – so the Emperor decided to adopt it – not because he believed it – but because it was popular –

    In political terms he “crossed the floor” to be with the in crowd.

    However, he adopted Christianity on his terms, twisted the teachings in to supporting a governing body that could use the fears within religion to control the populous. And so we have the Roman Catholic Church

    Many now understand that Christ was more a subversive in Judea (a country occupied by Romans) who was simply teaching the people the idea of the meaning of Kingship – that means the King serves his people – not the people serve the King, as was the case with the Romans.

    Guido, while I understand that you are a Catholic and admire your obvious faith – I am surprised that you are coming out in defence of an organisation that is so totalitarian and secretive –

    Can we stick to political stories and stay away from Religion

    Like

    • 400
      Bomb's not jobs says:

      The Catholic church is a revealled religon. it has no secret agenda. No secret dogma no secret initiation ceremonies. if you want all that caper why dont you try the freemasons!!

      Like

      • 449
        The culture of the individual says:

        Christianity grew in the Roman world because it offered dignity and inclusion to the downtrodden. It offered the vision of equality in the eyes of the creator. It said that ALL people are called upon to recognise human dignity as a God given fact. It appealed to women because it said that God created ALL humans as equal.

        The thought processes of Christianity gave you your concept of rights. Christianity created the moral universe in which you can say ‘No’ with impunity.

        Like

      • 480
        Pope a dope says:

        no, just some old codger claiming to have a direct line to the Lord Almighty.

        I wonder how large his phone bill is? Does heaven have a dialling code?

        Like

  75. 172
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    What a shame that England is such a secular, liberal, tolerant bunch of poofters. Back in the old days when England was great, we wouldnt have let him in, or even invited him.

    Like

  76. 176
    sabbath day says:

    The atheists ruined sunday.

    Like

    • 398
      welsh atheist says:

      yer right boyo

      there was nothin’ better than sitting outside the pub from sunday mornin ’til monday lunch just to get a drink

      Like

  77. 181
    Must get a pseudonym one day says:

    The Pope is merely the head of a corrupt multi-national corporation with a great future behind it. Get over it.

    Like

  78. 182
    Cardinal Newman says:

    The Holy Father has dedicated his life to a ministry of pastoral outreach to those of his brethren in Christ who have chosen to celebrate God’s wondrous bounty by accepting His glorious gift of penetrative intercourse with the under sixes.

    Is nothing so pure and holy that the trolls on here are not prepared to besmirch it?

    Like

  79. 183
    L V de S says:

    Hilarious nonsense from Guido – you are making a fool of yourself my friend

    Like

  80. 186
    NeverRed says:

    Blair ‘turned’ catholic. Enough said.

    Like

    • 712
      ddd says:

      Taking a country to war (twice) can take a toll on a man’s conscience, unless God told you to do it of course.

      Like

  81. 194
    Cockney Christian says:

    I can take the MSM’s criticism of the Catholics in particular and Chistians in general if the next story line is an unexpurgated investigation into the costs and benefits of World Jewry, and then sexual proclivities of the prophet of our peace loving moslem brothers.

    I’m not holding my breath.

    Like

  82. 196
    Gucci loafers says:

    Who is this man and why does he want to come to our country?

    Like

    • 416
      Cardinal Kasper says:

      Thats a bloody good question. I dont think we can frame an answer in terms that as a mere human we would understand. but dont worry he wont bother to come here again!!

      Like

  83. 199
    pp says:

    Guido – you have gone soft.

    The pope is just another politician.

    Forget the childhood fairy tales about imaginary friends who watch over you, grow a pair, and get on with attacking him like you would any other politician – any other rich dictator, any other undemocratic authority, any other secretive institution.

    For fuck sake… I am so disappointed in you.

    Like

  84. 203
    wasp says:

    Thanks for this piece Guido, I agree entirely and I’m not a Roman Catholic. The left luvvies and media have certainly got the knives out for the Pope. I suspect it’s not only the child abuse scandal which allows them to assume the moral high ground, but also the Pope’s crusade against nihilism and relativism, and his assertion that Western culture and values are based firmly in the Judeo-Christian tradition. There is an interesting piece on this is the current issue of Standpoint. Ratzinger has said:
    ‘as the West is making a praiseworthy attempt to be completely open to foreign values..it no longer loves itself…it sees in its own history only what is blamworthy and destructive and is no longer capable of perceiving what is great and pure’.

    Like

  85. 204
    48 Crash says:

    Guido seems to be wearing his Sacred Heart on his sleeve …

    Like

  86. 205
    Voice of Treason says:

    If sheep-like idiots want to believe in various gods invented mainly by eastern sand arabs in less enlightened times, when the earth was flat and the sun circled our planet, then let it be. Just don’t think that those who don’t believe such tripe are in some way lesser mortals.

    Regarding the poop, he is head of a system that has allowed violence and sexual abuse of the most vulnerable children in society. Not only that but this poop actually covered up paedophile rings within his organisation.

    Suffer the little children – but keep them well away from catholoic priests!

    Like

  87. 206
    Swamp Creature says:

    There was an old bishop of Birmingham
    Who buggered young boys while confirming ‘em
    To rapturous applause
    He ripped down their drawers
    And pumped the episcopal sperm in ‘em.

    Like

    • 431
      Bomb's not Jobs says:

      There was an old man from Rome
      Who strayed many miles from home
      In Britain was found
      Quite theologically sound
      But diissed by the Beeb and alone!

      Like

  88. 210
    John Knox says:

    The arguements of the left are immaterial. He’s a fenian. That’s enough

    Like

  89. 211
    Voice of Treason says:

    Amazing!!! So now we know the real Guido. Everything is now being moderated. You have revealed your true self Guido, we can vilify almost anybody you dislike but don’t dare to fuck with your religion.

    This website of free speech is nothing but a sham.

    Like

  90. 217
    concrete pump says:

    Prepare to spend the rest of your life offended Fawkes, because more stories of child abuse by catholic priests are going to come out over the next few years.

    I suggest you bury your head in a priest.

    Like

  91. 221
    John Knox says:

    Sing to the Tune of the Beach Boys, “Sloop John-B”

    Now they raped and fondled their kids
    That’s what those perverts from the darkside did
    And they swept it under the carpet
    and Large John he hid
    Their evils seeds have been sown
    Cause they’re not of our own
    Well the famine is over
    Why don’t you go home?

    Like

  92. 223
    Anonymous says:

    This is exactly what I predicted would happen.

    People would complain about catholics due to the whole nasty business such as giving children weird morals where they are not in control of their own lives and will get a second chance anyway if they didn’t work out how to subvert the letter of the law.

    … then catholics will say the complainers are just on about the “few bad apples” who were raping boys, and that this hasn’t been proved anyway.

    I’ve always seen religion, particularly catholicism as a leftie thing given it’s structure, rules and balance in favour of those at the top but I do wonder if others see it that way as the BBC wouldn’t normally go after something so harsh if they thought it was leftie.

    Like

  93. 224
    Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

    Im no papist so forgive my ignorance…actually dont i just need to confess to make it all better? There was once this dog that i…… Anyhoo.. Am I right in thinking that in the Catholic faith, the pope is Gods representitive on earth?

    If so he must therefore be the most powerful, influencial human alive at this time, In the Catholic faith at least. And if you are a true believer then of course your Catholic faith is the primary, nay only real faith and therefore your God is the one God. Ergo the Nazi pope is above all of the rest of us, the very pinacle of humanity.

    So why does the most powerful human alive, a man who represents the almighty creator need any protection from the criticism of mere mortals like me? Surely one word with his boss upstairs and he could have us all silenced…make people have nasty accidents, a bit like in that film Damien. If you have been criticising the holy father dont get in a lift etc…

    Secondly, surely such criticism is a test of the faith of our Catholic friends. Of course most right minded people know that religion is utter bollocks, it really is, especially organised religion like Catholicism (since the papists are the target of the day thats the reason im picking on the here. Insert Islam Anglicans etc etc if you like, im equally predjudiced against all sky fairey watchers).

    What would the Christian martyrs of old have thought of todays bunch of whining pathetic specimens? In the days of Rome, Christians often allowed themselves to be martyed by being eaten by lions etc. Pretty nasty stuff compared to say, reading the 10,000 post on the interwebs calling the pope a nazi etc etc. What would they think of todays wingeing pussies complaining because that moron Toynbee is ranting at them in the Guardian? I think they would be disgusted at just how pathetic your screams of ‘imfamy imfamy..theyve all got it in for me!’ are. Those people suffered real persecution for thier idiotic beliefs, you lot just have to chose not to read the fucking gaurdian et al (not that thats difficult, reading the guardian generally makes my shit itch by about comment no 10…. tofu sandal wearing wankers…)

    Religion needs no special defence(i.e. above the defence we normally have in law etc) either in law or otherwise. You dont need such defence, after all you have the almighty creator watching your back, why do you need the mere laws of fallible man? Religion deserves, nay it is required, that it is attacked precisely because you place yourselves in moral superiority to those who dont believe in your claptrap… and dont try and tell me religion doesnt do that. If your religion collapses and is ridiculed then you have failed and God has probably forsaken you. Perhaps him upstairs really doesnt like nonces after all… (about fucking time, surely preistly noncery has been going on as long as there have been priests and children)

    Suck it up, suffer for your faith. Its a test, a right of passage to see you into heaven.

    Surely the more you ‘suffer’ here on earth, surely the bigger the rewards in heaven? If you cant handle the criticism then perhaps your faith just isnt strong enough, have you ever thought of that? Also if your right, and Catholicism is the truth, then all of us detractors will be made to suffer: re red hot pokers up the arse for eternity. Im sure the thought of that will make you smile.

    So im afraid all this complaining because your being ‘persecuted’ is frankly pathetic.

    Like

  94. 234
    Al says:

    The Frankfurt Schoolers and their useful idiots are in full cry against the Popes visit.

    The BBC, Guardian, the likes of Johan Hari, militant homos, Marxists, neocons etc see this as an excellent pportunity to advance their agenda.

    Love it or hate it, the Catholic Church has always ben a bulwark against the leftist forces of subversion and destruction, which is why it’s under such virulent attack.

    Like

    • 240
      DG says:

      Plenty of useful idiots on this thread parroting the lines their BBC controllers feed them.

      Like

    • 255
      Al DG says:

      It’s the idiots pathetic reversion to mindless stereotypes in the absence of any convincing defence for the cover up of child abuse that is most telling.

      Like

      • 270
        Andy says:

        There is child abuse in every church particularly Judaism and Islam but you don’t constantly hear about that. At least the catholics are now doing something about it unlike the muslims, j*ws etc who are still involved in widescale cover-ups.

        It’s a convenient stick for the leftists, BBC, Guardianistas etc to attack their enemy, the catholic church, with.

        Like

        • 274
          JL says:

          Read Culture of Critique by Professor Kevin Macdonald to discover what is behind this latest campaign against the Catholics, and the ongoing campaign to destroy the traditions and institutions of the West.

          Like

    • 303
      Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

      Yes – Franco for one certainly appreciated its stance

      Like

  95. 237
    Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

    The whole circus around the Pope’s visit is becoming ridiculous both in the mainstream media and on here.

    The Pope is not a Nazi and I have not seen any rational commentator make this accusation despite the assertion in this piece. His time in the Hitler Youth was forced and by all accounts unwilling so any reference to this appears to be largely hyperbole.

    It is also true that the luvvies attacking him were strangely silent over other visitors who also preside over medieval systems – King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia being a prime example. I am yet to see the Pope presiding over public beheadings. Nor would they attack Islamic or Hindu leaders with the same vitriol.

    The fact remains though that the Pope presides over an organisation that is backward in its outlook and has covered up serious crimes in the last few decades. No one would accuse Ratzinger of pedophilia but he has been a part of the Church hierarchy that has covered up the activities of pedophile priests and kept them out of the hands of the criminal justice system in the cause of protecting the name of the Church. It is inconceivable that Ratzinger was unaware of at least a number of these cases particularly in Germany.

    The attitude of the Church allowed priests to re-offend and burdened hundreds if not thousands of children with the pain of abuse. This is not an isolated incident – large scale incidents of abuse have surfaced in the UK, US, Australia, Ireland, Germany and Belgium.

    There are many fine individuals within the Church but they have been let down by the leadership. If Ratzinger was serious about addressing the issues here he would turn over priests to the secular authorities immediately rather than “expressing regret”

    Finally it would be remiss not to mention the activities of the Church as a whole – it is secretive, authoritarian and corrupt – qualities that this website rightly deplores in the political world. The Vatican bank is notorious for money laundering (try Googling it) and the Church hides its activities behind the independence of the Vatican state – a nasty little arrangement with Mussolini in the 1920s.

    The Roman Catholic Church talks a good game but its behavious is contemptible.

    Like

    • 257
      lol says:

      Another moron conned by the BBCs anti-catholic, militant gay, multi-culti, propaganda.

      Like

      • 286
        Lady Virginia Droit de Seigneur says:

        Which facts do I have wrong – you appear to have no substantial arguments at all.

        You are the moron you stupid Hunt

        Like

      • 304
        Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

        Bore off. There are plenty of people here today bashing the …er.. pope (not the bishop) who last week where laying into the militant faggotry who where up in arms over the hague affair.

        You dont need to be a twatty beard wearing woman in comfortable sandals to have total contempt for the papist nonsense.

        Like

      • 443
        My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:

        only the UN has a bigger aid agency and nobody eduacates more people,per capita catholics are more generous to the developing world than any sector including atheists. even hattersley the old dog admitted at the aftermath of hurricane katrina that he marveled at the numbers of faith based charities who arrived at the scene and he mused where were the secular versions

        Like

  96. 238
    Faust says:

    Organised by Brown.

    Will it be a success?

    I don’t think so!

    Like

  97. 241
    Bob says:

    For the first time this year

    A decent article in (wait for it) The Guardian !

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/14/cuts-blame-public-sector-local-councils

    Guido

    I really think you should run an articles asking why the “No 10 machine” is losing the information battle so clearly over the necessary cuts…

    Like

  98. 242
    THE BISHOP RODGER ALLBOYS says:

    Our history tells us that the best place for catholics is still on the bonfire !
    Maybe they were abusing our children way back then
    so history has taught us nothing
    otherwise there would still be enough coal and wood for everybody

    could you imagin the outrage by them that burn everything !
    If someone burned an effigy of the prophet muhammad ?

    Like

  99. 245
    Anonymous says:

    Go back to politics Guido, leave the preaching / bleating nonsense alone.

    We’re not your flock of unquestioning followers.

    Like

  100. 247
    He's Spartacus says:

    Sic transit gloria mundi.

    Regards,

    Tom

    Like

  101. 249
    Voice of Treason says:

    TESTING MODERATION FOR CERTAIN WORDS:

    If sheep-like idiots want to believe in various gods invented mainly by eastern sand arabs in less enlightened times, when the earth was flat and the sun circled our planet, then let it be. Just don’t think that those who don’t believe such tripe are in some way lesser mortals.

    Regarding the poop, he is head of a system that has allowed violence and sexual abuse of the most vulnerable children in society. Not only that but this poop actually covered up peedofile rings within his organisation.

    Suffer the little children – but keep them well away from you know who!

    Like

    • 253
      Voice of Treason says:

      Ahh, I now know why moderation is automatic. Thanks Guido, say three hail Mary’s and go straight up the ladder to the next square.

      Like

  102. 251
    ? says:

    Is that odious creep Johan Hari a man or a woman? It’s impossible to tell from his photo in the Independant.

    Like

  103. 256
    Toilet Papers says:

    I just can’t get my head around all this fuss about a papal visit and all the upheaval caused by this MAN, who just happens, by political manipulation, to be the head of an organisation. Why is this pope or any other pope treated by the catholic followers as some sort of deity? Surly the bible covers this, something along the lines of false gods and only being one god etc., etc.!! Do the heads of organisation like BP, Monsanto, British Aerospace, and Halliburton expect the same reverence? Well maybe so in the case of Halliburton

    Like

  104. 257
    lady penelope pitstop says:

    i was born in to catholicism there were good times and bad times good sisters and bad ones i survived ma*ta too and a year of hell in an orphange, im not against his visit just the long reaching effects of ab*se

    Like

  105. 265
    Richard says:

    Well done Guido. Courage to say what others dare not is what makes this the best political blog. Completely agree with you.

    Like

    • 272
      Voice of Treason says:

      Well said Richard – now go back to playing with yourself.

      Like

      • 277
        LMAO says:

        Voice of Treason = Johan Hari (vile little leftist turd from the Independent)

        Like

      • 292
        Jed says:

        Voice of Treason, You seem obsessed with attacking catholics. Do you work for some leftist rag or are you just some desperate sociopathic fuckwit?

        Like

        • 355
          concrete pump says:

          Maybe the poor bastard was raised as a catholic?

          Like

        • 542
          Just Woke Up says:

          Or maybe one of them extremist secular types the man in the dress is warning us about? Being secular doesn’t necessarily equate to having a political stance. It could simply be that VofT just has a more balanced, critical mind than the religious mob.

          Like

    • 293
      Tankboy says:

      But this is as you say – a political blog – not a religious blog

      Like

      • 435
        Professor Henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

        Whilst I do laugh at Guidos belief in his almighty creator and this particular thread, I have to say it is his blog and surely he can post anything he sees fits.

        His blog: his agenda.

        Like

        • 500
          Leather Apron says:

          Not if he then moderates responses, as some have indicated. Post what you like, but expect some come-back, be ready to debate…

          Like

  106. 267
    Steve Miliband says:

    The de-religionalisation of the UK is detrimental.
    I don’t necessarily believe it all, but it gives the junior Milibands some hints on how to behave and treat others.
    I don’t go to Church very often but it amazing how relaxing an hour of reflection can be.
    Here endeth..

    Like

  107. 273
    Spank Sinatra says:

    For me, religion is mostly about who gets to wear the biggest hat (see pope/archbishop of canterbury/head of greek orthodox church etc). It’s all about hat size.

    What is dispiriting about the catholic church is the constant defence of ‘we’re going through a learning curve’ & ‘we didn’t know then what we do now about child abuse’ etc etc…..that line is one of the saddest and shallowest defences. Are the leaders of this particular faith seriously trying to suggest that sodomizing young children under their pastoral care was something which they did not consider morally wrong?

    Like

    • 280
      LMAO says:

      Did you hear that on the BBC or read it in the Guardian.

      Try thinking for yourself, you brainwashed moron.

      Like

      • 305
        Spank Sinatra says:

        The line ‘we’re going through a learning curve’ was spoken this morning by cardinal cormack murphy o’connor on r4 today programme at approx 8.20am. You are correct in that it was on the bbc and that indeed is where I heard it. The fact that it was uttered by the former head of the catholic church in this country is of course an inconvenient truth.

        Here are his words (8mins into the piece)

        http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9003000/9003970.stm

        Like

      • 329
        SQUAWK! says:

        BBC!! Guardian!! BBC! Guardian BBC! Guardian! BBC! Guardian!

        Try thinking for yourself, you brainwashed moron.

        ROFL!!!

        Like

        • 362
          South of the M4 says:

          Erm…… SS is commenting upon the words of the Cardinal himself. Irrespective of the broadcast channel. He/she does not appear to be repeating a spun mantra. Therefore, I don’t see how the BBC or Gruinard come into it.

          Like

  108. 278
    Voice of Treason says:

    Verily I say unto you all, go play with the children.

    Like

  109. 287
    Stryker Miliband says:

    Meh. Kill em all and let God* sort it out.

    *or Richard Dawkins, or whatever.

    Like

  110. 288
    Humanist says:

    What a load of ballcocks. Of all the inventions of mankind, religion has been the worst. Countless wars and deaths because my god is better than your god.
    Mankind can live a good and and clean life according to the rules of society without the nastiness of religion.

    Like

    • 434
      Humanist la la land says:

      In our gloriously religious free Soviet Union, Peoples Republic of China and Cambodia, there were no mass deaths, and people lived in harmony and tranquillity.

      Like

      • 458
        My Other Cars Not A Prius Either says:

        Indeed it is our humanist/atheist/corporatist opinion leaders who insist the war on terror is an east/west islam/christian old way/new way ding dong,never mind the truth being that oil,arms and energy corporations run governments hence the insistance on green policies

        Like

  111. 290
    Anonymous says:

    Guido,

    leave it alone, your bias is showing and you are getting a bit shrill

    On the whole the UK is a secular society, like it or not, because the majority (i) have seen through the self serving power structures of all organised religions and (ii) know that the church is of absolutely no importance to their lives whatsoever and never will be.

    Visit of the Pope may be a big deal for Catholics but as for most of us it is no different than going through the motions for another obscure Head of a micro State, a matter of complete indifference apart from road closures and noise from the media.

    Like

    • 295
      Jon says:

      If it’s no ‘big deal’ for non-Catholics then why are the BBC, Grauniad, and other leftist organisations attacking the Popes visit so furiously?

      Like

      • 326
        how did the Priests know which children were lefties and would work for the BBC ? says:

        some small inconsequential story about child abuse

        you probably missed it

        Like

      • 437
        Anonymous says:

        Because it is a big deal for Lefties. And guess what? Nobody in the real world cares about about what they think either.

        I have yet to meet ANYBODY (in London at least) who gives a stuff, other than commenting on road closures and diversions and the general folly of organised religion, but then I do not do religion nor left wing politics. Maybe it matters to them but not to the vast majority in the real world. Complete sideshow with press noise attached until the next big story comes along.

        Back to work everyone. Nothing to see here. Move along.

        Like

      • 486
        why indeed says:

        something about child abuse and Priests ?

        Like

  112. 298
    Piotr says:

    @Humanist

    Yes, completely and totally right! Let’s all move to rationalist ideologies of Nazism and Communism, responsible only for some 200mln deaths. All hail atheism!

    @Guido
    I think it is the “elites’” hatred of religion as such, not only Catholicism. Catholics do make an easy target as they are not known to burst into journalists’ houses at night wielding matchettes, so our stalwart media barons just hit the targets they are not affraid to hit.

    Like

  113. 301
    Manc says:

    If leftie scumbags like the the Guardian, Independent, BBC, Stephen Fry, David Aaronovitch, Channel 4 etc are attacking the Pope so frantically then he must be doing something right.

    Like

  114. 306
    I don't believe in God or religion but I'm not some Guardian reading liberal either says:

    Ladies, ladies, personally I think this encapsulates the whole debate better than anything else I’ve read:

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/queen-to-have-lunch-with-insane-criminal-201009163093/

    Like

  115. 310
    Richard Baron says:

    It is not atheist bigotry, but atheist recognition of the truth. Religion is not just dangerous. It is factually wrong, and wrong in such a big and obvious way that believers can only be regarded as profoundly stupid in this area, however intelligent they may be in other areas. That goes for the Pope, the imams, the rabbis and Baroness Warsi, who is today all over the papers recognizing the importance of faith.

    Like

    • 373
      Get off your high horse says:

      Atheists are just as capable of creating mayhem and mass murder as religious folk, as much of the history of the 20th century testifies.

      Oh, a Dawkins is a bore, a fanatic who wont shut up, or change the subject.

      Like

  116. 311
    lady penelope pitstop says:

    ah! so there is a big e*u summit today, diversions?

    Like

  117. 313
    FFS says:

    And where were these lefty media luvvies when their friend Ken Livingstone was entertaining Dr Qaradawi at the taxpayers expense?

    Oh, thats right – the Left / Islamist alliance are one in the same anti western cancer.

    Like

  118. 317
    simon r says:

    ‘Predatory paedophile priests have ruined the lives of hundreds if not thousands of Catholic children. Their reckoning will be eternal.’

    Well, if like me you are a non believer I would rather their reckoning happened in this life.

    Like

  119. 322
    POPE STORMTROOPER THE THIRD OF ROME says:

    Hey you little boy !
    vud you like to come for a ride in my popemobile ?
    now little boy have you ever vundered vot the pope has under his frock ?

    Like

  120. 327
    POPE STORMTROOPER THE THIRD OF ROME says:

    If you can’t fight !
    wear a big hat !

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/images/stories/popevoo2.jpg

    Like

  121. 332
    Same old leftie double standards says:

    These same smarmie leftie creeps would be, and have largely remained, completely silent if we were being visited by some ranting, gay hating, thinks it’s ok to beat your wife member of a certain other religeous “community”

    The only one out of the lot of them who is at least consistant is Tatchell.

    Like

    • 348
      Stryker Miliband says:

      But no other ranting, gay hating, thinks it’s ok to beat your wife member of a certain other religeous “community” has been given a state visit and the opportunity to address Parliament.

      Like

      • 523
        Same old leftie double standards says:

        So fucking what? The lefties still keep their gobs tightly shut on any matter pertaining to the “community” when beheading, stoning, calling gays “diseased” and various other medieval rantings are promulgated. Why aren’t they joining Tatchel then? Answer: because they are cun-ting snivelling hypocrites, and whilst I don’t agree with Tatchel’s politics I admire his utter consistancy.

        Like

  122. 334
    Anonymous says:

    “which let the abuse of innocent children go unchecked for decades”

    Balls. This behaviour has been standard in the CofR for centuries. And it’s only been ‘abuse’ for less than one century i.e. since other people decided it was a bad thing.

    Like

  123. 335
    Steve Miliband says:

    When I was growing up with my brothers in our North London mansion, our millionaire Marxist father used to preach to us that it was bad manners to discuss politics and religion at the dinner table.

    Subsequently we are atheists and are shit at politics.

    My angel was a centrefold.

    Like

  124. 337
    Tardkiller says:

    So, in addition to all this

    One of the Pope’s senior advisers has pulled out of the papal visit to Britain, after reportedly saying the UK is a “Third World country” marked by “a new and aggressive atheism”. Cardinal Walter Kasper, 77, made the remarks in a German magazine interview.

    perhaps he meant terminal 3 at heathrow?
    nope he said

    Cardinal Kasper, who recently retired as the president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity having headed it since 2001, said that Britain was a secular and pluralist country in which there was a distance from God, noting that there was a crisis of faith in much of the West

    Yes, there is some distance between normality and sky fairies of the Christian denomination. A crisis of faith? I beg to differ. How’s about a crisis of magnificent proportions for the papacy, and only because they lied and protected nonces in their church, and got caught, and not just in one country, but dozens.

    We have no crisis of faith in this country, it’s just that more and more people have opened their eyes to the hypocracy, greed and filth of this one of many religions, and have come to the correct conclusion that this organisation has very little at all to do with belief in a deity. People would much rather live their lives with hope, free from the negativity of shame of original sin, being born bad and having to spend their lives whispering to invisible fairies in the hope of some flash shit after they are rotting in the ground.

    He referred to the case of a British Airways employee, Nadia Eweida, who was suspended by the airline in 2006 after she refused to stop wearing a crucifix around her neck, and alluded to the activities of prominent atheists such as Prof Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion.

    Cardinal Kasper said Christians in Britain suffered discrimination, above all by an aggressive new atheism. If you wear a cross on British Airways, you are discriminated against.

    Good thing the Inquisition and burning at the stake no longer happens huh! What sort of discrimination is acceptable to this corporation of Christ that oversees the poverty of billions? Discrimination against women? They must be allowed to wear a cross at work, but they can’t be ordained to do god’s work?

    A lying hypocrit, fucking off into the sunset, back to Italy, having passed judgement on this country as if his own corporation was whiter than white, rather than drowning in the cesspit of paedo scandals around the globe.

    I’ve never oppressed or killed religious nutters, nor have I ever espoused the idea that they should be, and nor do I belong to any college of atheism or atheist idealism. I just think you people are nutters who have way, way too many priveleges in our society simply because you belong to one sect or another. You think your deity is something special because it’s fed into your tiny brains when you’re children by blokes in frocks, and it’s got over 1 billion of you whispering sweet nothings at statues, pictures and strings of beads in the hope that you won’t actually die when you actually die, because the end is too horrible for your weak brains to deal with. you whisper platitudes to thin air, or even shout them when the shit hits the fan and you’re frightened. Whatever bakes your cookies mate, but don’t give me fucking Sunday trading laws becuase it’s your freak’s day of rest or whatever. Don’t issue me with fatwahs because your invisible dude has got all pissed off at my nonchalant and carefree manner, and please, please don’t tell me that when I kark it, some bloke with a trident and pointy bits coming out of his head is going to hang me over a toaster.

    Like I say, you’re nutters, so keep your wierd shit out of my laws, face, and mind

    credit to Biped on Arrse

    Like

  125. 337
    David says:

    As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse I have no problem with the current media coverage. The Catholic Church will put its house in order in the longer term, but only after it goes through the deepest moral crisis possible, which the media can help provoke. If the Met Police can be described as ‘institutionally racist’ for the Stephen Lawrence affair, then the same logic can be applied to the Catholic Church to describe it as ‘institutionally paedophilic’. But the Catholic Church shouldn’t feel alone. I am simply waiting for the day when we survivors from abuse at British public schools, brought together through social networking media, will rise up and bring that ‘fine institution’ crashing to the moral ground as well. Hopefully that won’t be long – and they need to be very afraid. This is the era of empowered people. Information is everything, and this is the information age.

    Like

  126. 345
    Anonymous says:

    “The Pope is being crucified in sections of the media as, and this is no exaggeration, an evil, dark, Nazi protector of paedophiles.”

    As you say, Guido, it’s a ridiculous characterisation. No one with any sense thinks he’s a Nazi.

    Like

  127. 347
    Cardinal Scalan says:

    Why is there such an outrage about Cardinal Walter Kasper’s remarks.

    I would have thought calling England a third world country was good politics before visiting Scotland.

    Like

  128. 357
    POPE STORMTROOPER THE THIRD OF ROME says:

    Who will be paying for the brand new popemobile ?
    Not the catholic church one of the richest organisations in the world i should think !
    why build a new one when there is a perfectly good one in the LDV transport museum used once very low mileage 82 reg etc
    and if the left footers want to see him so bad
    let them pass the fucking plate round to pay for it !

    Like

  129. 360
    Wayne Rooney's wrist says:

    I bet the pope’s had more wanks than I’m having right now.

    Like

  130. 361
    Cockney Christian says:

    England a third world country, well it nearly is, not long now. Aggressive secularism, almost correct. Apart from the kosher stamp to most of the media, and of course our dear old peace loving lady stoning brothers in the mix too.

    Not nice to hear, correct, but there is a ring of truth about it – and we English have been persuaded not to recognise the truth.

    Like

  131. 366
    Batty Hattie Harmanescu says:

    I had the “benefit” of a Catholic education, the church as an institution has been abusing their young charges for years, not just sexually. It is practically part of their doctrine.

    Whatever the criticism being aimed at the Pope, it is criticism well deserved. That also goes for the Vatican as a whole, the curia, the whole corrupt lot of them.

    If the Pope feels unwelcome here, good.

    Like

    • 387
      Mr Plum says:

      Interesting how all the lefties do not have much respect for tolerance and multiculturism when it comes to the pope

      Like

      • 502
        Batty Hattie Harmanescu says:

        Are you assuming I am a leftie, I am not. I did however spend a very miserable school life starting with the Sisters of Mercy, being beaten black and blue from the age of five, and being indoctrinated with what can most politely be described as a load of bollocks.

        This is not about tolerance, unless of course you wish to argue that chyld abuze should be tolerated. Multiculturism? No thanks.

        Guido speaks of the crucifixtion of Pope, far too good for him in my

        Like

  132. 368
    Anonymous says:

    White european Christian priest dares to point the bleeding obvious and is censured. What a surprise.

    Like

  133. 370
    Welcoming the Pope says:

    Like

  134. 375
    Auntie Theist says:

    Wow anyone else thinks that Guido sounds a bit like that loony tune guy Tommy Davis who represents Scientology who objected to the BBC doing an expose on his UFO cult.

    He always uses the faux righteous indignation card to try to silence critics by claiming his “faith” is so precious it is beyond denigration much the same as the Muslims

    Like

  135. 378
    nell says:

    Well what a controversy his visit has kicked up.

    Should he have come here? Yes. 17% of the population in Scotland and 10% of the population in England are catholic. It is right that they should have the opportunity to see the person they regard as their spiritual leader.

    It is not right that the rest of us, who are in the majority, should be required to foot the monstrous bill for his visit.

    Dont forget the catholic church is immensely wealthy, and it should be footing its own bills to move its own religious leader about.

    Like

  136. 379
    Voice of Treason says:

    Flat Earth believers are in good form today on this thread. All religions are bollocks and the idiots that believe in them are misguided fools.

    Like

  137. 382
    I once was blind but now can see says:

    Papists and lefties slugging it out.
    There is a god.

    Like

    • 392
      Snivelling shit says:

      leaving the big newts and the fanny stichers to take care of business

      Like

    • 408
      No says:

      “Papists and lefties slugging it out.”

      Nice

      Not just against lefties but also an unreformed adherent of Thomas Cromwell. That’s proper conservatism.

      I salute you.

      Like

  138. 388
    Anonymous says:

    Perhaps if the Dalai Lama had been directly involved in covering up child abuse then he would be in line for a bit more criticism.

    To you, the Pope can do no wrong because he is the Pope. The thousands of people that have been abused by priests in the Catholic church, only to have it covered up at every level, deserve to have their grievances heard. And the Pope deserves to answer for them.

    Like

    • 403
      Jonathan Sicks says:

      The reason I have failed to condemn the sale and harvesting of organs by rabbits or the deportation on non-J*ws from Isra*l or the theft of land is because I agree with these practices.

      Like

  139. 391
    Desperate Dan says:

    Well said Guido. There’s no chance that the 72% of self-proclaimed UK Christians (2001 Census) is going to won over by the fanatical hate-filled temper tantrums on display from Atheists.

    Like

  140. 393
    Anon says:

    Funny how the Pope is portrayed as a quasi-Nazi protecting paedophiles, while another religion that actively promotes forced marriage of children to old men, mutilation of young girls and stoning of females who don’t keep in line with the ‘culture’ is never challenged.

    Like

  141. 397
    The eyesare the window to the soul. says:

    Well said Guido. Obviously being a Baptist I can not agree to the Pope being god’s representative on earth or praying to the Virgin Mary. But I do feel that the media in the UK, especially the BBC and the Guardian classes are being particularly vindictive to the Catholic church and this hostility does say more about them than the church they are attacking.

    Like

  142. 405
    NickyBlister says:

    The Pope is the living embodiment of children’s fairy (& scary) tales and should be recognised for it.

    Will Tony Blair be paid to address the Pontiff? Maybe even made a Director of Papal interests in Peace, Fear And Loathing?

    Like

    • 591
      Only God forgives says:

      No, Tony Blair has been given the chance to explore his spiritual identity. He is at the bottom of the pile in the Church because he and his wife have issues. He has time to sort his life out. Being a Catholic does not absolve from sin ,but an opportunity to do something about it. The Pope cannot forgive sin. Never claimed he could but presides as a ‘priest’ enabling a sinner (all of us are) to make peace with God in HONEST Contrition. Tony Blair will know. It is between him and God. The Pope does not forgive merely by a ceremony. Popes (and priests )have been lied to furiously and often. Only true contrition is the source of forgiveness through the mercy of God. And that is CATHOLIC belief.

      The Popes have made very clear in public the ‘shortcomings’ of the person you mention. The chances of that person being made a ‘luminary’ within the Church are zero.

      Like

      • 632
        Ruth Kelly's plaything says:

        Once you remove the sky-pilotry from all that it makes sound psychological sense.

        So why can’t we just have Jung without the Pope?

        Like

  143. 415
    I once was blind but now can see says:

    It is bad enough I have to respect the beliefs of people who believe in a sky fairy but asking me to respect an ex nazi pedo protector as well is taking the piss.
    Catholicism is not a faith but a cult.Christianity is a fucking faith.
    Two different things.

    Like

  144. 419
    Labour Party says:

    I blame Thatcher. She should never have invaded Afganistan.

    Like

  145. 425
    Voice of Treason says:

    If we are made in God’s image then presumably he lives on a similar planet which requires a mouth, ears, nose, arsehole etc. So why doesn’t he just come and live here?

    Like

  146. 454
    keddaw says:

    The 50 atheists in this morning’s Guardian are taking the Pope’s visit as an opportunity to kick at the spiritual leader of Roman Catholicism in a way they would never dare do to the Dalai Lama, who incidentally also favours a culture of life and traditional family values.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Hitchens%27_critiques_of_public_figures#The_14th_Dalai_Lama

    Well, that’s one.

    While not strictly British, Penn&Teller have a go too (actually, neither is Hitchens now):
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4935138732025185923
    Which was prominently displayed on http://richarddawkins.net/videos/1185-penn-amp-teller-39-s-bullshit-holier-than-thou-with-christopher-hitchens

    Like

    • 781
      Angry porpoise says:

      Strictly as in they are not in any way British?

      Like

      • 791
        keddaw says:

        Strictly as in some of the 50 atheist people they asked were not British, but he is coming to Britain and the issue is with his arrival in Britain as opposed to his alleged heinous crimes against humanity.

        My point being that anyone claiming to be an atheist for sensible reasons would criticise the Pope, the idea that they would not criticise the Dalai Lama in a similar fashion is, generally, wrong. Some go nuts for the Buddhist nonsense, but most (or many) see it as bullshit, dangerous and immoral bullshit when done in the way the Dalai Lama suggests. (Hereditary God King – fuck right off you baldy wee shite!)

        Like

  147. 457
    Anonymous says:

    They could always nail the fucker to a cross . That would get the punters in.

    And if he comes back to life, well, case proven, Dawkins silenced.

    Like

    • 464
      Anonymous says:

      I see you have thought long and deeply about these issues. Can I humbly suggest you put your name to your postings so your friends and family, work colleagues etc can see what a deep thinker you really are and are accorded all due credit for your insightfull comments.

      Like

  148. 459
    Engineer says:

    My overall impression reading through some of the comments above, and from reading and listening to the media more generally, is that there are some atheists who are far more shrill and intolerant than the vast majority of people who have, however loosely, a faith of some sort.

    Spirituality is an important part of life for many people. To dismiss their beliefs is intolerant, at best; arrogant, ignorant and outright bigotted at worst.

    Catholicism is not evil, even though it has failings and imperfections. We should welcome the Pope as we would welcome the Dalai Llama or the spiritual head of any other faith. Where we have concerns about the actions of the Church, or of some in the Church, we should express our concerns calmly; but we should also listen.

    (I’m not a Catholic, but I do believe in tolerance of those who have faith, and of those who do not.)

    Like

    • 483
      concrete pump says:

      ‘Catholicism is not evil.’

      I beg to differ, Engineer.

      Like

      • 497
        bird with small brain says:

        Concret pump Do you have a fan club? Can I join?

        Like

      • 527
        Engineer says:

        CP, you’re falling into the socialist trap of using partial quotes. I said, and I maintain, that Catholicism is not evil, even though it has failings and imperfections.

        It clearly failed to inspire you, and you’ve moved elsewhere spiritually. Fair enough – but don’t be intolerant of those who continue to hold faith.

        Like

        • 539
          concrete pump says:

          The quote was clear, Engineer, i didn’t take it out of context. Catholicism has much more than just failings and imperfections, it is rotten to the core.

          Catholicism has emotionally crippled hundreds of thousands of people, you should hear the stories my cousins have about the ‘christian brothers’ they were schooled by, only in the last 25 years.

          I have no problem with people being catholics, that’s their business, but to defend catholicism by attacking those with no faith, i find very hard to swallow.

          Like

        • 559
          concrete pump says:

          I might not be the sharpest tool in the box, Engineer, but i don’t think i am falling into ‘socialist traps’.

          Like

    • 513
      Leather Apron says:

      I don’t believe in tolerance of those who have faith at all. They are all deluded tossers as far as I am concerned, every one of them of every hue.

      My wife was raised as a catholic, she barely knows anyone that wasn’t felt up by a priest.

      Like

      • 531
        Engineer says:

        Is it OK for someone with faith to call you a deluded tosser because you do not?

        Like

        • 574
          Leather Apron says:

          Yes. Because I can prove that I am not. I’m comfortable in my beliefs and don’t go crying about what others might or might not think of me and my beliefs.

          I don’t give a shit what you think, basically. Even if you ultimately turn out to be right and that bloke in the red shoes and pointy hat actually IS God’s right hand man (like that’s going to be proved true).

          Why should I ‘tolerate’ you just because you have ‘faith’? Having faith doesn’t give you the right to talk crap, be a child abuser, cover up for child abuse, bend peoples minds with medieval scare stories, knock on my door and preach at me….etc etc

          Oh, and we are paying for a State visit – a State set up by Mussolini for crying out loud. Bogus, all of it.

          Like

          • Engineer says:

            Then why are people who do have some faith “deluded tossers”? Is it because their views do not accord with yours?

            I called for tolerance in my original post – no more.

            Like

    • 626
      Ruth Kelly's plaything says:

      #459 Engineer – That is one way of looking at it, but try reversing the view. Those who ‘believe’ are often keen to convert others to their beliefs – they actually think that the rest of us are missing out on something precious and important and their generous impulses drive them to pass it on. OK, they can think what they want, and I can walk by when I hear them ranting in the street and feel sorry that an apparently decent fellow-human can be so deluded.

      Why may the ‘shrill’ atheists not be equally keen to persuade a fellow-human of his/her error? Why can the believers not just tolerate them? (Nothing to do with the quiet whisperings of doubt, I suppose?)

      What gets my overburdened goat most, though, is the assumption that spirituality can be expressed solely through faith in some sort of supernatural being. Likewise, that the only people with a moral code are the religious. What inexcusable arrogance!

      There are many of us who find religion a desiccated, poor thing, full of prohibitions and sanctions that may have made sense in first-century Palestine but are nuts today. (Eg the Jewish prohibition on pork – a meat that used to be riddled with parasites and which decayed rapidly in heat, thus to be avoided. Modern stock-rearing methods and refrigeration remove both of those objections to its consumption.) We have moved on to define for ourselves the ingredients of a ‘good’ life and try to lead it. But we don’t need blind faith to help us and we resent attempts like yours to colonise spirituality and good works as your exclusive property.

      Having said that, I admire and support the C of E for the way it reflects so much that I regard as good in the English character. Rome is the model for a number of failed attempts at centralisation and fascistic control; I prefer the Eastern Orthodox, still organised in the way they were originally formed by Paul, the founder of Christianity, as a loose coalition.

      Like

      • 725
        Engineer says:

        “But we don’t need blind faith to help us and we resent attempts like yours to colonise spirituality and good works as your exclusive property.”

        RKP – I deeply resent the implication that I am attempting some sort of moral superiority. I am not – and I find your charge deeply offensive.

        Through most of my life, I have found that most people of faith are content to tolerate the views of those who do not follow a faith, but I have often found that those who do not follow a faith express strong views about those who do.

        In my original post, I called for tolerance. That is all.

        Like

  149. 460
    HappyUK says:

    Well done for pointing out the blindingly obvious Guido: we have a liberal elite class of atheist rascals that do not acknowledge the tit-for-tat inescapability of spiritual law.

    These same people slinging mud at the Pope are very often those that will advocate abortion. They think its all right to have children and not take responsibility and then kill the child when it is still in the womb. How very cruel! That and use vague terminology like ‘terminate the pregnancy’. These rascals and fools do not have the brains to see any further beyond this!

    This atheism is just a nonsense theory and an excuse for rascals to commit sin after sin, just because some big intellectual with a big salary spouting his elephantshit theories says it is OK. They do not possess the single brain cell required to realize that if you kill then someday you must be killed.

    Like

    • 476
      Voice of Treason says:

      If the peedo preests had been aborted there wouldn’t now be a problem. I think many are missing the point, it’s not intolerant to believe in fairies or intolerant of those who do. It’s just we get sick of hearing these fools pontificate their misguided beliefs on everybody else.

      By the way HappyUK, you are going to die just like everybody else, pity you’re not in a hurry.

      Like

      • 506
        HappyUK says:

        “If the peedo preests had been aborted there wouldn’t now be a problem”

        And just how does one decide, in advance, while said baby is in womb, if it is going to be a peedo priest or not?? And what has any of this got to do with “fairies”?

        Back to the drawing board fuckwit.

        Like

  150. 462
    bird with small brain says:

    Guido I am quite happy for you to believe in your Personal Placebo in the sky, but why do you need that bunch of misogynistic homophobes to prop up your belief? The answer is presumably because you were brought up that way?
    I’m much more impressed with people who make an adult choice, not one based on childhood conditioning. But I have to say that this thread has been one of the more interesting of late

    Like

  151. 467
    Tankus says:

    Empty roads for the driveby

    ….I live in londons east end …more people turned up for the Crays funeral than for this ex nazi

    Like

  152. 469
    Looking forward not back says:

    Guido the Catholic Church lost the argument in this country over 400 years ago. As you are fond of telling those loosers in the Labour Party, They and You should get over it.

    Like

  153. 470
    Anonymous says:

    Who’s this Pope geezer everybody is talking about?

    Like

  154. 471
    Seems fair to me considering that 80% of the victims are 15 year old boys and young men says:

    Deep-seated homosexual tendencies, which are found in a number of men and women, are also objectively disordered and, for those same people, often constitute a trial. Such persons must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. They are called to fulfil God’s will in their lives and to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter.

    In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders those who practise
    homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture”.

    Like

  155. 473
    geekparent says:

    FFS stop blogging about the Catholic faith. That’s not what your readers come here for.

    Anyone would think you were Tony Blair.

    Like

    • 495
      Thomas Cromwell says:

      The BBC as usual is going to town on the visit which probably two thirds of the population couldn’t care less about.

      Whilst there will be large crowds there probably won’t be huge in comparison to 1982.After all even the Catholic Congregation doesn’t seem too keen to buy tickets at £25 per head for Cofton Park(Methinks that was the real reason the venue for Beaitifying Cardinal Newman was moved to there,a smaller venue…holding 60,000 max compared to Coventry Airport,the venue for John Paul II in 1982,which holds quadruple that number

      Like

  156. 479
    Andy says:

    Hot issue this one by the looks of it.

    One question – How many Catholic priests have been prosecuted for abuse allegations?

    I’ll bet there aren’t many.

    Like

    • 487
      Engage Brain says:

      You can’t be prosecuted for allegations. Allegations have to be proved and the burden of proof is high. Child abusers always use the DARVO defense of malicious accusation. In fact, thousands of accusations against teachers in the UK are made annually. Only a tiny proportion are found to be substantial…and matter of a few dozen.

      Like

      • 762
        Anon says:

        Er… Doh!! I think you will find that you are prosecuted on allegations. It is the outcome of the prosecution, based on the allegations, that determines guilt or not.

        Like

  157. 484
    The Buddhist view says:

    If a homosexual avoids the sensuality and licence of the so-called ‘gay scene’ and enters into a loving relationship with another person, there is no reason why he or she cannot be a sincere practising Buddhist and enjoy all the blessings of the Buddhist life.
    None of the legal codes of traditional Buddhist countries criminalized homosexuality per se, although of course there were penalties against homosexual rape and homosexual acts with minors just as there were for similar offences committed by heterosexuals. In most Buddhist countries today, homosexuality is usually considered strange and laughable although not wicked or evil.

    Like

  158. 489
    An atheist says:

    Well, fuck me, Guy Fawkes does not even know the definition of Bigot. Go on, I dare you, look it up in google just for fun. Don’t dare to? No fucking wonder since you will end up looking such a fucking cretin.

    This my friend comes from one of your supporters, or perhaps one of your erstwhile supporters.

    You are prejudiced in favour of your religion and intolerant of those that don’t conform to your prejudice, and that in itself will make your judgment impaired.

    Atheist, like myself have no wish to attack your pope for his own sake. They don’t fucking care one toss what silly fancy dress he cares to wear and they don’t fucking care that you are delusional enough to believe in a load of fucking nonsense that patently does not exist.

    Add to this the fact that they do not wish to convert you because it will require effort for no reward but they are willing to debate, which clearly you are not and we get some feeiing for the situation.

    Atheists, amongst others are concerned at the way your church has been complicit in covering up child buggery and rape and has been systematically doing so for many decades and continues to do so under the present leadership.

    Attacking the pope is entirely understandable whilst not looking up the meaning of words in everyday use is not.

    Try in future to think about the topic before attacking your own supporters or you might just find they all disappear

    Like

  159. 490
    Disco Biscuit says:

    Is it not reasonable to allow him to visit whilst also challenging the Church’s history and teachings where we differ? This is a democracy.

    It is a fact that the Catholic Church harboured paedophiles and terrorists, burned and tortured hundreds, persecuted homosexuals and chose a former Nazi as its head.

    It is not unreasonable to mention these things.

    Like

  160. 491
    The Pope can fuck off home says:

    Fuck off pope.

    Like

  161. 492

    Bloody hell! What a thread this is!

    Calm down everyone. The way the Pope dresses shows he’s as camp as a row of tents: always great theatre.

    http://fxbites.blogspot.com/2010/09/suffer-little-children.html

    Like

  162. 493
    bird with small brain says:

    I liked the apposite comment by a Mr R Dawkins. It was something along the lines of ‘There are good people who do good things and bad people who do bad things, but for good people to do bad things it takes religion’. Ok This is getting tedious. I’m off..

    Like

  163. 496
    Anonymous says:

    “Their reckoning will be eternal.”

    “eternal” in your opinion, but to those who don’t believe in fairies or goblins, “eternal” reckoning will never happen and most of them will get away with it.

    “Our children are being constantly bombarded with messages from the secular media to distrust those good men that baptised them, offer them communion at mass every Sunday, confirm them in their faith, educate and marry them, comfort us in sickness, read us our last rites and bury us.”

    Teaching children to have a questioning nature is good; children should never be taught blind obedience to anyone, not even to their parents; they should be taught from birth that although you should show respect to people, you should also understand/know that people do make mistakes, and some people who you first think are good can do bad things.

    I’m not teaching my little boy to regard his teachers at school (or vicars/priests) as infallible people to worship; I’m teaching him to see these people as people who you should respect and listen to, but where you should use your own sense of right/wrong to decide if what they’re telling you is something that you should do/believe.

    If my teacher tells my little boy “don’t worry, it’s perfectly normal for me to touch you like this” then I want my little boy to scream “no it’s not” and to scream for help. I DON’T want my little boy to suffer abuse just because he’s taught blind obedience to those in authority.

    You SHOULD question those in authority if your gut tells you that what they’re doing/saying is inherently wrong, even if you’re only 5 years old.

    Holding people up as untouchable pillars of society who are always right is evil; it breeds ignorance and allows abuse to continue without question.

    The lefty media (who I normally despise) are attacking the pope not because they don’t believe in religion, but because they are vehemently against blind-obedience being taught to people, and on that score I agree with them completely.

    However, having said that, the lefty media are also using it as a stick to beat family-values to pieces (as guido says), and that I don’t agree with because even if you’re not religious, a sense of having a solid/normal family environment for a child is something that should be encouraged, not discriminated against.

    I despise the idea of having a pope (ie an infallible figurehead to worship), because it is the exact opposite of what a Christian is supposed to do as it goes against everything that the historical Jesus taught, and also goes against all secular reason as well.

    The only thing I like about the pope and the catholic church is that they stick by their guns when it comes to standing up for family values; I give them big respect for that because they’re pretty much the only organisation left who do that.

    Like

  164. 499
    anon says:

    Guido,
    As a papist, you are triumphalist and offensive towards other demoninations one day, but full of aggrieved whining self-pity the next. Like your religion, you are thoroughly unBritish

    Like

  165. 501
    New Socialist says:

    Guido, you’re conflating an attack upon an institution with an attack upon God – the very line that the C4s want you to jump at.
    I can’t imagine God getting too hot under the collar about a Guardian editorial; a Church might – but not God.

    Like

  166. 507
    genghiz the kahn says:

    Does anyone remember Stephen Fry writing to The Guardian about the activities of P. D. O’Phile and friends working for Islington Council’ Childrens’ Homes?

    Did he organise protest letters to land on the desk of Margaret Hodge, did he shout loudly about the treatment of children in care?

    Like

  167. 511
    Stick to the Politics Guido says:

    You’re making a right ass of yourself – hypocritical, irrational and, worst of all, BORING! Most of us don’t give a flying fuck about this shit or what you feel about it.

    It’s your blog and you can say what you want but you’re driving down the value of the Guido Fawkes brand, which you have been cultivating so carefully. Do yourself and us a favour and stick with the parliamentary plots, rumours and conspiracy before your readership drops below that of the Times website.

    Like

  168. 519

    I’m glad the Catholic church is getting a kicking. Throughout it’s history it has been an influence for the worst excesses of dictators, criminals and anti science lunatics. Religion as a whole is a bad thing that caused and causes untold misery and conflict. Bring the licking on.

    Like

  169. 520
    Anonymous says:

    Don’t you dare bring the Dalai Lama into this, does he protect paedophiles?

    Like

  170. 526
    An atheist says:

    So, what’s wrong with the post after 448 still awaiting moderation? too embarrased to publish it and want to see it buried before you do so. Pretty fucking wet if you ask me

    Like

  171. 532
    Cardinal Kasper says:

    Nowdays ze english cannot even take a compliment! and furthermore I am not apologizing to Mugabe for comparing great britain to his country!

    Like

  172. 544
    2muchredwine says:

    Wow
    If the purpose of your blog was to light the blue touchpaper and retire then it worked.
    However, if it was a genuine belief of yours, then perhaps you should put it on another blog and not one that normally sticks to government issues.
    Or in other words leave it out mate.

    Like

  173. 565
    Kiddy Fiddler in Chief says:

    All priests should be allowed to bum young boys in peace. Amen.

    Like

  174. 567
    alister says:

    All the pope has to do is turn over all the church’s files on child abuse to the police.

    Why won’t the church do this? Because they would detail, time after time, that the church moved priests to new parishes where they abused again.

    The Pope may not have known, or was prevented from releasing the documents before, but now he IS Pope he has the ability to do it. Lance the boil, and draw a line under this.

    Like

    • 689
      A non catholic says:

      Hopefully this is something that is being investigated and handled in each of the countries where the Catholic Church practices.

      They do have their own Canonical courts and internal systems, but they are very very slow.

      I would prefer that it was handed over to the police and I would also hope that the police would prosecute. In some cases they will not because senior police were involved in the abuse too.

      Like

  175. 568
    Catholics are fucked up says:

    I reckon the pope got bummed as an altar boy and probably sees it as part of the normal mentoring process – one up the bum – no harm done kinda thing.

    These catholics keep their morals in their arses anyway. Every sperm is sacred, condoms wont reduce aids, sex before marriage is sinful, , homosexuals should be crucified, blah etc. If somebody came out with these types of views afresh today they’d be prosecuted or sectioned. Its simply the biggest cult in the world.

    Like

  176. 572
    assegai mike says:

    Couldn’t agree more. What a gruesome bunch. With the honourable exception of Peter Tatchell, who at least shows moral and physical courage in these matters.

    I found it deeply ironic when on the very same day, Stephen Fry tells Steve Wright how hard he tries not to come across as pompous.

    Like

    • 592
      Mother's Pride says:

      Mrs Tatchel has campaignrd to reduce the age of sexual consent. He is a rabid heterophobic, paedophile protected by the current fashion of liberal marxist indulgence.

      Like

      • 687

        I don’t know what he wants the age of consent reduced to, but as a general principle I agree with him: it’s ridiculous men and women being jailed for fucking predatory 15.5 year olds. You’re right, he is heterophobic, I think, but so what? I’m homophobic, the two times we’ve spoken we got on okay, and that’s fine by me. What’s your evidence on the paedophile accusation?

        What swings it for me, is that when Mugabe visited UK and Belgium, Tatchell got involved up close and personal and got bashed for his trouble – quite badly in the Belgian incident – which is more than most whinging people who just bleat and do fuck-all constructive. He’s a pretty weedy specimen physically, after all.

        Like

    • 603
      annnnonyperson says:

      Yes, Mr Fry knows all about moral behaviour as the chap who stole a credit card from a family friend and caned it all over the place.

      Hell. If that’s how Mr Fry treats a friend, what will he do someone he doesn’t like?

      Like

  177. 581
    I fucked a Nun. says:

    But the Priest got his own back.

    Like

  178. 583
    unimpressed says:

    diplomatic rambling speech from pope although clearly he didn’t write it…why on earth the RC church authorities haven’t dealt frankly and openly with the abuse issues is beyond me…there is child abuse throughout all sections of society and it is all unforgivable but in a church particularly damages the core message to followers and observers alike.

    Like

  179. 584
    Senator Bloodn' Gore says:

    Crucifiction, Guido, is what you practice daily the difference being that you do it to Members of Parliament not religious leaders.

    I, for one, would rather my tax paid for other things rather than a visit which is a sop to, what is in this country, a religious minority. I am not an atheist and yet I share many of the opinions of Stephen Fry et al. This religion has a very bad history both immediate and going back over a thousand years.

    “Their reckoning will be eternal” you say, well I think rather a lot of us would prefer a touch of temporal and right away please.

    Like

  180. 585
    for the hard of thinking around here says:

    other child abuse does not make the child abuse by Priests any more acceptable

    the media reporting the catholic child abuse, whether left right or centre, does not make the child abuse by Priests acceptable either

    it is utterly unacceptable, or if you prefer a more religious sounding term, evil

    Like

    • 594
      Sir says:

      3/10 must try harder. Repating dogma is easy, try some original thoughts next time.

      Like

      • 610
        do fuck off you weasel says:

        since when was stating the simple fact that child abuse is evil “dogma” you fuckwitted nutcase ?

        care to tell us all what’s so wrong with calling child abuse evil ?

        if not piss off and don’t come back until you receive your medication you shitbrained abuse excuser

        try laying off the drugs next time Mr Glitter

        Like

        • 680
          A non catholic says:

          Correct. It is evil. Fucking children is evil, there is no other word that adequately describes it.

          It is Evil WHOEVER commits it. It is NOT right in the Catholic Church, or in any other religion, or in any other organisation, or in any family.

          FUCKING CHILDREN IS EVIL END OF STORY!

          Like

    • 614
      Non-Cathnolic says:

      One minority community likes talking about Nazis. Another minority community likes talking about child abuse. The obsession with Nazis and child abuse reflects the over-concentration of members of minorities in the media. The pope’s visit is a perfect excuse for them get off on their favourite subjects.
      These sour-faced wet blankets can’t tolerate the happiness a lot of people feel today.

      Like

      • 616
        it's the medias fault they abused the children says:

        those poor Priests!!

        Like

        • 684
          A non catholic says:

          Those priests do not deserve sympathy.

          And the media should hang it’s head in shame for helping to cover up child abuse for decades.

          There are a lot of people who wrongly believe that the media is there as some sort of truthful watchdog seeking to expose wrong-doing and corruption.

          Sadly, nothing could be further than the truth!

          Like

          • saying it doesn't make it true says:

            how did the media help the child abusing priests rather than the Pope ?

            proof would be nice

            Like

  181. 589
    Anonymous says:

    I think the Pope’s visit has got off to an excellent start. Almost every time the little twat is mentioned it is in connection with paedophilia.

    Like

  182. 590
    Name any other organisation that protects paedophiles says:

    It’s not OK to fuck a kid.

    Like

  183. 602
    The general public says:

    Guido, what’s the difference between you highlighting the hypocrisy of scandal of those in power at our government, to doing the same with those in power of religions, not just Catholicism)? It’s not often we can call you a hypocrite, but I think the hat fits today!

    If believing in a god works for you, then great, go with it but don’t try and suggest there is something wrong with me just because I don’t (despite this I still manage to do more “Christian” work than most Christians).

    Most religions preach fairness and equality but try being a female or gay. It gets up my nose how religions say you are anti them/discriminate, simply because you are a “non-believer”, Jews and Muslims are the worst for this but the Catholic Church is trying their hand at it now and it’s disappointing to see people like Guido falling for it.

    The reason the Catholic Church is against birth control are simply they wanted to breed as many Catholics as possible. Preaching to children is nothing more than brain washing and using the language of fear (sinners go to hell etc) to those too young to understand or make up their own mind.

    Like

    • 629
      Ruth Kelly's plaything says:

      Dead right. I remember, all those years ago, being told by my father that church doctrine forbade birth control as an interference with the divine will.

      OK, I said, does it also condemn death control, the fact that by administering medicine you save a life and thus interfere with the divine will?

      Cheap debating point, he said (rightly). But he had no answer.

      Like

  184. 604
    right-left-centre blogger says:

    I agree we should have no issue with the pope visiting, anymore than the dalai lama etc as a tolerant nation

    That said, any comments about ‘aggressive atheism’ or secularism, or any condescending remarks about why we are all wrong, and how we are a ‘christian country’ will rightly deserve a rebuke – if the dalai lama tried to convert me I’d give him the exact same treatment

    Like

  185. 606
    Raving Loon says:

    Catholics bum little boys
    Muslims blow up planes and busses
    Jews bulldoze towns

    Every religion has it’s little party piece so lets put things into perspective shall we?

    Like

  186. 609
    right-left-centre blogger says:

    Also, agree with other people on this – you’re doing the blog a disservice by promoting your religion (I am just realising you are a Catholic?), Guido

    As much as this blog is your own and formed by your opinions, ones on matters of religion, particularly a minority one, are only going to turn people off this political blog

    Like

  187. 611
    Ruth Kelly's plaything says:

    “The Pope is being crucified in sections of the media as, and this is no exaggeration….”

    So when it’s all over we can look forward to congregating at the bottom of the cross to divide his raiment, can we?

    When and where will the stigmata be on display?

    Get a grip on the hyperbole, Guido; your attempt to defend the ancestral belief-system may mean that in the Ould Sod you’re seen as a faithful son of Mother Church, but over here in the Third-World UK you lose credibility.

    Anyway, what’s a paid-up contrarian doing defending any institution that’s open to attack, as the RC church surely is?

    Like

  188. 612
  189. 618
    anon says:

    Given the number of children molested in welfare state social services, and the number of children who are molested by comprehensive school teachers, might we expect to hear calls for local government social services and comprehensive schools to be abolished for the protection of children?

    We have to pay taxes for organisations that either allow this abuse to occur or provide the openings for paedophiles to operate.

    Funny how the atheists don’t mind comp teachers buggering kids or social workers pimping out.

    Like

    • 673
      A non catholic says:

      well said!!!

      Like

    • 699
      An Englishman says:

      Okay, all false gods, which all gods are.

      But this thread doesn’t happen to be about those things, it happens to be about the catholic church.

      Actually, of your points, I’d have to disagree, more or less totally, about the green movement. It may not have everything exactly nailed and some of the science may be approximate or guesswork or even contrived, but most of the science is sound and most of the evidence is blindingly obvious.

      It’s long past time that humanity started to take far better care of its environment. That’s part of humanity growing up. That’s not a false god at all.

      And… if something clearly could be catastrophically dangerous and you don’t know beyond doubt that it isn’t or that it won’t be the result of your actions, to take those actions is foolish. Would you drive your car off a cliff because you don’t know for sure that you will be killed?

      For all you climate change deniers… you don’t KNOW human-caused climate change isn’t happening, and you don’t KNOW it isn’t going to be utterly destructive. Until you do know those things, it’s utterly foolish to argue for preventing it, especially when the basis of denial is your wish to keep your comfy lifestyle. Your car or iPod or whatever you hold dearer than the survival of polar bears may be paid for with your children’s future. Is it wise to take a chance on that?

      Like

      • 717
        An Englishman says:

        Which was supposed to be a reply to 666.

        Guido, if you want to take things off for moderation, would it be okay if they were put back in the same place, please?

        Like

    • 777
      Professor henry Brubaker, Institute for Studies says:

      Bollocks, utter drivel. Child abuse is evil wherever it happens. the difference between the Catholic Church and you average Comprehensive school is that if the perpertrator is found out in the school its very likely he will be banged up in chokey before the week is out. In the catholic church such abuse will be covered up, the victim threatened and the perpertrator moved sideways, often to abuse again and again, never to face a trial or punishment.

      Its the systematic abuse and complicty and covering up which separates the church from the state in your example. Plus your average state school doesnt pretend they have a monopoly on morality, lecturing those who dont hold their idiotic beliefs whilst covering up some of the worst crimes possible in a calculated and systematic way.

      For as long as their have been priests there have been pedo priests, protected by the church for the good of the church. Systematic child abuse is as much a catholic tradition as is saying hail mary, its been going on as long and it appears they are reluctant to let it go.

      Like

  190. 623
    13eastie says:

    Guido, I don’t think you’re very sure what battle you’re fighting here.

    The Pope is not God. The RC Church is not a religion per se, its role is more that of a global muti-level marketing network (AVONgelism – geddit?).

    No multinational organisation or its chief executive is above fair criticism.

    Sensible Christians are perfectly able to have a worthwhile relationship with God, while questioning the actions of the Vatican in relation to matters that have barely anything to do with the practice of Christianity.

    Any God worth worshipping would not give a rat’s ass what people were saying about the Pope or how often folk were blaspheming!

    The Abuse and Hypocrisy Came from the Top

    Well almost. I’ll leave the Holy Trinity out of this, but even if the molestation of children has been at the hands a minority of despicable priests, the massive effort gone to by the Church to protect them from justice has been global, systemic and evil. Who made this happen?

    For decades, the Church itself has acted as though it is above the law, a steady stream of fugitive paedophiles from all over Christendom being parachuted into cushy jobs at the Vatican to keep them in check while their victims were cast aside. A long-term perversion of the course of justice, sponsored at the highest level, and at direct cost to the weakest and most vulnerable in society. The diametric opposite of Christian teaching.

    That the same organisation should presume to be the sole custodian of humanity’s moral welfare invites accusations of hypocrisy.

    It is entirely reasonable that people should ask why the Pope has not seen to it that more has been done to weed out and punish the criminals. Whom else ought we to ask?

    The recent revelations about the Church’s role in conspiring to protect James Chesney are sinister in the extreme and it’s impossible to believe that self-interest was not a factor.

    Epic Denial

    The Catholic Church, the original “Flat Earth Society” has a long history of pathological denial. Ask Galileo “the Heretic” Galilei. The Vatican has never learned its lesson and continues to seek out new ways in which to paint itself into corners of ridicule.

    Such denial still goes on today. Based on no experience or scientific evidence, the Vatican continues to proscribe the only effective weapon Africa might have against the transmission of HIV.

    Which is the real sin: to say nothing while someone gives out free johnnies or wilfully to allow Southern Africa to become a biblical-scale orphanage?

    To fail pro-actively and systematically to tackle the child-abuse problem is just another manifestation of this denial.

    The Pope (like, for different reasons, his Anglican colleagues) needs to get his house in order if he is to have any credibility. When better to tell him than while he’s round for tea?

    Like