August 18th, 2010

Deficit Deniers Exit the Reality-Based Community

The knee-jerk reaction from the left to being called “deficit deniers” is nigh on hysterical, this morning Comrade Maguire over at the Mirror indulges in a ritual denuciation of Maggie, quotes Neil Kinnock approvingly and says “I’m proud to be called one of George Osborne’s deficit deniers”. Given that the polling shows the public understands the need for spending cuts and the peril the deficit presents, our Kev is advertising his exit from what could be described as the reality-based community.

Over at the Staggers, Medhi Hussein, too says “I’m proud to be a deficit denier”.  Confusingly, for a self-described polemicist, he then qualifies what he writes, claiming that he doesn’t “deny the existence of this country’s largest Budget deficit since the war” nor “pretend that cuts will never come”. Which somewhat suggests that one of the few media admirers of Balls isn’t such a proud deficit denier after all.

The deficit-denier-in-chief, Ed Balls, one half of the duo that abolished “boom and bust”, is the bookies favourite to be eliminated in the first round of the Labour leadership election. Nevertheless Balls is sticking to his “so what?” position, claiming deficit reduction is the “economics of the madhouse”. Absurdly Balls reckons even Alistair Darling’s modest deficit reduction plan was wrong: “Halving the deficit in four years by cutting public spending… I think was a mistake. In government at the time in 2009 I always accepted collective responsibility, but at the time in 2009 I thought the pace of deficit reduction through spending cuts was not deliverable, I didn’t think it could have been done… I’m not happy to accept cuts in any part of the budget…” Guido thinks that is really the “economics of the madhouse”…


  1. 1
    Gordon Brown says:

    There is no deficit. I saved the world, the Milky Way and the known universe.

  2. 2
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Non reductio ad absurdum

  3. 3
    Bunker Spreckels. says:

    They’ll be fine once nurse comes round with their medication.

  4. 4

    They are all loons and so deeply entrenched in their lunacy that only the asylum will do for them.

  5. 5
    Anonymous says:

    “national initiative introduced by the last Government”

    Public money being spent on private matters.
    Is this not partly why we have a defecit?
    So why deny the defecit (unless you benefit)!

  6. 6
    Anonymous says:

    The government falls.Lab + Lib coalition and the IMF cleans up the mess.

  7. 7
    Gordon Brown says:

    No deficit here you deluded twats, weren’t you fucking listening first time round, I put an end to boom & bust!

    Can I have my fizzy orange now?

  8. 8
    Mehdi Hasan says:

    I’m proud to be a twat.

  9. 9
    I use the red flag as toilet paper says:

    What a load of balls, Balls.

  10. 10
    Tony E says:

    They don’t get defecit becuase they misunderstand the value of money and the effects of diluting a currency. Brown printed money like it was going out of fashion, mainly to pay for government functions, not to stimulate the general economy. This means that the currency will face huge pressures going forward but the economy outside the public sector gained little benefit from it.

    Because they have an absolute belief in the goodness of government spending, and embrace the flexibility of ‘fiat currency’ in a wholly inappropriate way, they will never understand the principles of sound econimic policy:

    the key words are BALANCE OF PAYMENTS.

  11. 11
    Gordon's mum says:

    Wash your hands first or you’ll only get water.

  12. 12
    Engineer says:

    Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth….

  13. 13
    Genghiz the Kahn says:

    ”You can’t have political credibility without economic credibility.”‘

    Just to remind McGuire, Kinnock and Balls that Alistair Darling said that yesterday.

    Even BBC Scotia have it on their website.

  14. 14
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Whose mess, ffs? Are you barking?

  15. 15
    Forlornehope says:

    If Labour made the case for higher state spending paid for by higher taxes, it would at least have the merit of honesty. There is a credible argument that up to 50% of the economy can be spent by government without compromising growth. As long as Labour persists in arguing that we can have high government spending without most of us paying for it they will be seen as neither honest nor credible.

  16. 16
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Have you seen my cat anywhere, Engineer?

  17. 17
    Mike Hunt says:

    Thank goodness that these lunatics are not in power any more, hopefully for ever.

  18. 18
    Die Ann Flabby Bott says:

    I don’t deny the enormous…

    …amount of riiice and peeea I like to eat.

  19. 19
    Jay says:

    This coalition’s strategy of bringing down the deficit at such a fast pace are a recipe for disaster. Those of us who can remember Thatcher’s spending cuts on entering Downing Street in 1979 and the downturn that followed will know that we are now heading towards a double-dip recession. Labour will ultimately be proved right in believing that spending cuts should not have been introduced so quickly and that the government should have done more to nuture the economic recovery that was beginning to emerge at the end of their time in power.

  20. 20
    the late mrs slocombe says:

    Has anyone seen my pussy?

  21. 21
    Bread Maker says:

    Can’t they all just fuck off and leave us alone?

  22. 22
    Anonymous says:

    Socialism does not adhere “budgets” shared poverty,in the name of fairness, is its only raison d’etre.

  23. 23
    Maximus says:

    Offers for the date of a great annual socialist festival of Burning the Mags.

    No 1st of anything please. All these are numerological displacements of anti-establishment festivals originally dated by bifurcating the epochs between solstices and equinox to arrive at chronological points at which the Establishment ‘influence’, thought of primitivistically, was considered weakest. In other words stupidity gilded with fuckwittery.

  24. 24
    Sarah 'drinking from the fury cup' Brown says:

    I loves me rug munching in Canterbury, thank you for finally letting me go Gordon, you saved my world for sure!

  25. 25
    MI5 says:

    Comrade Maguire newly inspîred by his stay in Cuba no doubt

    The average monthly wage in Cuba at the moment, after 50 years of Communist tyranny, is

    US$ 15 per month…

    Toilets must be proud of the Cuban People being crushed as well…

  26. 26
    Brillo says:

    I wish you’d have nothing more to say.

  27. 27
    jay and silent bob say fuck you up your stupid ass says:

    Like they were proved right to run up the deficit in the first place eh? Fuckwit.

  28. 28
    Anonymous says:

    to “budgets”

  29. 29
    Deficit denier's suicide mission on the OBR, 'rest in piss shit-eds!' Ed Balls says:

  30. 30
    Mr Ned says:

    I think Ed Balls really does believe in the money tree!

    We need to scrap fractional reserve banking of fiat currencies and create sound money based on a tangible asset of value.

    I suggest a new currency one unit of which is worth an hour of an average labourer’s time.

  31. 31
    Where's that sploot cunt? says:

    Where’s that hilarious BrokeBack fellow who goes into a rage everytime his messiah Brown is insulted?

  32. 32
    Johnny says says:

    The easiest way to deal with this is to point out we have been trying a fiscal stimulus since about 2002 that has got larger and larger year after year. It didn’t work then because it was wasted on shit rather than being ploughed into infrastructure construction which would have enabled increased productivity (new motorways, enlarged container ports, power stations, etc)

    It didn’t work. The final push was an obscene gesture that much of Parliament was too afraid or too thick to argue against.

  33. 33
    Bread Maker says:

    So what, if businesses here could get away with paying the equivalent of $15/month they would have no problem with it.

  34. 34
    Jack says:

    We now know we were governed by TRUE NUTTERS

    They bark on about Child Credits

    In fact,LABOUR HAVE INDEBTED our children for a generation thanks to the biggest Ponzi debt scheme in British history

    They need to be put in stratjackets like Gordo the Dangerous Clown

  35. 35
    Harry says:

    Expecto patronum

  36. 36
    Anonymous says:

    Labours of course.Have you seen the polls-if theres was an election now Lab would be the largest party in a hung parliament and would shack up with the Libs(most likely)Hence the IMF would have to be called in(again)

  37. 37
    Engineer says:

    If Messrs. Maguire, Hassan and Balls wish to spend themselves personally bankr*pt, then fine; that’s their business. However, would they be kind enough to restrain themselves from inflicting the same state on the state? The taxpayer (including me) would be terribly grateful if they could see their way clear to not ruining our lives along with theirs.

  38. 38
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    well at least he’s not doing the tim lovejoy bit today.

  39. 39
    Bob says:

    Hello Toilets

    You are even more bonkers than I thought !

  40. 40
    sploot the loop off says:

    Oh don’t you fucking start.

  41. 41

    I’m right and you lot are all fucking wrong, go fuck yourselves you right wing freaks.

  42. 42

    The Labour party behave just like their voters, going from payday loan to Ocean Finance consolidation loan. Borrow, Borrow, Borrow, that’s exactly how council house/working class people live and their chosen party continue their feckless profligacy in order to ensure the rest of the country suffer the same fate.

    Brown even flogged the family gold just like chavs sending in an envelope full of stolen jewellery. He then cashed in our pensions, just like they do at the shit end of society, knowing others will have to pay for their old age.

    Brown, Blair and the other economic criminals need to be put on trial for trying to turn Britain, a once great nation, into a welfare dependent, sprawling council estate.

    String ‘em up I say!!

  43. 43
    Engineer says:

    Your feline accomplice graced us with his presence only a few days ago, but sadly, he has been absent these last day or two; we’ve missed him!

  44. 44

    It is amusing to hit Lefties with their own specialist form of poison.

    They have tried to associate the term “Holocaust Deniers” on people sceptical about global warming – with their smear by association term “Climate Denier”.

    And now they have been hit with the same “denier” smear themselves…… ho, ho, ho….!!

  45. 45
    The BBC/Labour Coalition Party says:

    There’s no such thing as a deficit, its just a capitalistic construct.

  46. 46
    JohnB says:

    I’m proud to be a deficit denier too, just because like a large number of respected economists I take a different view from you about how the economy works. Unlike you, I don’t claim that my view of economics is ‘reality’ and everyone who disagrees with it is delusional. These are serious issues and they need to be argued out rationally, not through rhetoric and abuse. You rightists don’t do yourselves any favours by refusing to acknowledge the strengths of your opponents arguments.

  47. 47
    Budgie says:

    The myth doing the rounds in Labour supporters’ circles is that the bulk of the deficit is all the fault of ‘the bankers’, consequently that the deficit attributable to Labour is small and sustainable.

  48. 48
    Braveheart says:

    I listened to the whole of Osborne’s speech: he didn’t say much, just attacked Labour, which seems to be the summer tactic.

    BBC 24 had a quick interview with a city type who said “it was really a political speech, not an economic speech”.

    Labour proposed £74billion of cuts/tax rises, so they cannot be honestly accused of “denial”. Osborne wants £144billion.

    I suppose you could say that those who oppose Osborne are “deficit deniers” to the extent that they know that cuts and tax adjustments are needed, but question whether the full extent of Osborne’s cuts are needed, or the balance (% of tax rises-v- public spending cuts) is the right balance.

    But to call that “deficit denying” is just spin. It’s opposition to £40 billon of extra, ideologically driven cuts, and a profound ideological difference with the Tories.

  49. 49
    Engineer says:


    Next election, May 2015. Get used to it.

  50. 50
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Understand your point but the quality of that hour is not homogeneous in the way that the value of money should be, Mr Ned.

  51. 51
    Labour lite (now with 50% less fat) says:

    Don’t worry about it,most people buy the Mirror for free dvd’s and discount camping holidays,Maguire spouting shite probably only sells them a couple of copies.

  52. 52

    He was last seen in a superposition of here and there, going hither and thither – this is due to the superstring he’s been plating with of late.

    I’m sure he’ll pop into existence soon lol.

  53. 53
    HappyUK says:

    What kind of cretin would be proud to be called a deficit denier anyway?

  54. 54
    broadcasting from Gordon Browns downstairs toilet says:

    must squeeze cheese
    must squeeze cheese
    must squeeze cheese

  55. 55
    Mr Ned says:

    And we had the international ratings agencies yesterday claiming that the plans by several nations (including the UK) for reducing their debts and deficits are not radical enough and we are still risking our AAA rating, meaning that the coalition’s plans are better than labour’s were but that they still might not go far enough.

    The big problem that the coalition need to solve is not so much how much to cut, but in what areas. How do they cut without damaging our economic competitiveness and how do they cut services in a way which can stimulate economic growth? They need to cut away dead wood and any “service” which is a drain and a limit to private businesses.

    Cut things that limit businesses and then business growth improves faster = more profits = more taxes = faster reduction in the deficit.

    Get this right and they can improve our economy massively regardless of cutting a mere 6 billion more than labour (or rather not increasing spending by as much as labour were planning to)

    Get this wrong and even if they cut less, they could spin the economy into a depression.

  56. 56
    Braveheart says:

    just what I said, only more succinctly put.

  57. 57
    Engineer says:

    Empty vessels make most noise.

  58. 58
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Thanks. I think the dog chased him back off to his box!

  59. 59
    The BBC/Labour Coalition Party says:

    There’s no such thing as a deficit, its just a capitalistic construct.

    Up the global ploterian revolution!

  60. 60
    Mr Ned says:


  61. 61
    purpleline says:

    With 10-year Gilts yielding 3.05% today it is recognition the George Osborne medicine is being seen as positive by the World who have money to invest.

    Ok there has been a flight to government bonds, but UK gilts would not have moved if the markets and world investors were not happy. This is an important stimulus to the country, we need to unlock bank lending now to SME (good ones) and create a new Industrial bank of Britain a consortium of the 4 major UK banks and the government. The government could put 25billions of its QE money inside and the banks each a credit line and equity to match.

    This followed by announcing a study on Trade with the EU and prices on the continent and UK. There should be no Island premium when goods are sold in the UK. That approach with the EU and America would see inflation fall and retail increase thus boosting the economy.

  62. 62
    Bread Maker says:

    If ‘they’ can, they will. ‘They’ being governments, businesses or both.

    I note you didn’t disagree.

  63. 63
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    LOL. t and y are very close on the keyboard. Could be a matter of life and death, but we may never know.

  64. 64
    Engineer says:

    It’s good to hear the arguments set out so calmly and concisely. Well done – we now all know exactly what’s happening in your brain.

  65. 65
    Budgie says:

    Actually Brown appears more human now he is no longer the PM. Either the mediation is finally working, or he is an awful example of near terminal envy.

  66. 66
    Gordon Brown says:

    My ding-a-ling, my ding-a-ling, won’t you play with my ding-a-ling?

  67. 67
    Shilling for the Banksters says:

    Excellent. Very good to see the narrative of the need to bleed the sheeple gain such traction. Unlike our predecessors, who preferred the practice of one-off terminal payments to appease their idols, we think recurrent bleeding makes for a more just and sustainable economic model.

  68. 68
    Mr Ned says:

    I acknowledge all strengths in my opponent’s arguments and respect and give credit where it is due in all cases in which that applies.

    When the left manage to find anything of strength, or reason, or merit in their arguments I shall of course acknowledge it.

    I am still waiting for them to do so!

  69. 69
    Anonymous says:

    They are neither(honest or credible)never was never will be.Ponzi schemes are the best they can do,they will never face reality NEVER hence they are unfit for government.Always was but envious,guilt-ridden or idealist idiots want to believe their bollocks.Just a shame we and future generations get the bill whilst we struggle to keep up with the rest of the world with huge debts weighing us down.

  70. 70
    Man in the Street says:

    Such as?

  71. 71
    Die Ann Fatbot says:

    I would.
    But when questioned on it I would have nothing more to say!

  72. 72
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    If your aunt had balls, she’d be your uncle. As it is you, that contingency may actually be true.

  73. 73
    bAss Wrangler says:

    I can’t believe the nice man from Grand Designs could be suck a cock

  74. 74

    One hour of a labourer’s time is surely too high a starting point for such a currency.

    Imagine the tiny fraction of a unit that one hour of a diversity outreach litter coordination facilitator’s time would represent, or, god forbid, one hour of Ed Balls’ time!

  75. 75
    Engineer says:

    So – spending more than you can raise by taxation year after year is actually good for a national economy?

    Can’t quite put my finger on it, but I can’t help thinking that there may be a teeny flaw somewhere in this theory….

  76. 76

    Can i have a peek up your kilt?

  77. 77
    The person who yesterday invented the moniker 'The BBC/Labour Coalition Party' says:


  78. 78
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    The delegation of rhetoric.

  79. 79
    Anonymous says:

    I support the coalition.I was merely pointing out the alternative.

  80. 80
    Can't remember my moniker says:


  81. 81
    pussy galore says:

    Engineer and moniker are pussy deniers.

  82. 82
    Same Old Shit says:

    Interest rates kept at 0.5% by BOE, the vote was 8-1.

  83. 83
    Kirkcaldy Electorate says:

    Where’s Gordon?

  84. 84
    purpleline says:

    What strengths? The left have proved incompetent, Obama is showing us all how not to do it, 13.3 trillion and counting.

    Listen matey the world does not owe us a living, just because we become socialists, look after the old and young, it trades with us to sell us things and to make money from us it is called commerce.

    Following the labour doctrine on finance the UK would become a third world country mired in debt and war. Read your history go back to Elizabethan times and you will see the seeds of how a bankrupt country because the world leader.

    You achieve successful economies, that feed and educate those disadvantaged by trade. We need to use the commonwealth and make it a free trade zone and reel in India.

  85. 85
    Gaydar Radar says:

    Oh I can believe that!

    Its in the walk, just like Gordy Broown.

  86. 86
    Mr Ned says:

    You did not read the quote from Balls then? Where he claimed that there was no need for cuts AT ALL? That is the definition of a denier

    At least you and Alistair Darling admit that there does need to be cuts and there are real differences within all parties of how deep and in what areas that these cuts need to fall.

    This is why there is now a comprehensive spending revue happening to decide on where these cuts actually fall and how deep the cuts will be.

    Labour cannot have it both ways. They cannot on the one hand claim that they were planning massive cuts to bring the deficit down, and on the other refuse to say where any of their cuts were to be made in order to politically oppose each and every cut that follows.

    Those who oppose ALL the cuts the coalition will make are the deniers.

  87. 87
    Defacate Deniers says:

    We’re shit with money

  88. 88
    123 coming ready or not! says:

    Who gives a shit?

  89. 89
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    I bet the coalition believe that man-handling the controls is dangerous. A bit like driving on ice really.

    They’re talking up the big cuts they will do (future tence), but will be pussyfooting around for months or years.

  90. 90
    The Headmaster says:

    I am a Headmaster

    I would put you all in detention for writing such drivel

    F minus

    Also – I demand you stop swearing

  91. 91
    purpleline says:

    LABOUR never had any plan or evidence to show where they were going to cut. Geddit.

    Words are fine and dandy, but Brown if re-elected would have carried on regardless a right carry on.

    Abusing Bob Geldof’s Live aid speech come on Labour show us your cuts

  92. 92
    Allan@Aberdeen says:

    FFS – the IMF is run by and for the international banks which get rich out of messes that they use their dupes (Gordon Brown – GS’s boy) to create.

  93. 93
    welcome to pseuds corner says:

    Moniker, your cat was run over and is now dead. Sorry about that.

  94. 94
    angelnstar says:

    We do understand the need for cuts, and we are 100% behind Cameron and George supporting them and whatever it takes.

    The one thing we don’t want is briefing against people in your own party, spin, and smears. Anything, anything rather than that.

  95. 95

    Shhhh, Ned!

    That analysis is far too close to reality for the Fabian drones – the elephant in the room so far as current expenditure goes, however, is the public sector pension pot, which if left unchecked will leave us with liabilities that outstrip the total d*bt while costing us progressively more in contributions each year.

    Until this is brought under control (and bringing discipline to public sector pensions will be a hard fight), the cuts will have to be deeper than they otherwise would.

    An immediate freeze on all final salary schemes, the scrapping of superannuation, the recalculating of benefits so that they reflect the true value of the funds – that is just the start – without that we will be paying for the boxtickers to become bedwetters long into their dotage, and crippling public finances to do so.

  96. 96
    Anonymus says:,-women-told-200809241278/

    You see, when i read that, I didn’t believe he was an expert on vaginas

  97. 97
    Allan@Aberdeen says:

    How the f*ck can this country still have a AAA-rating? Who owns the rating agencies?

  98. 98

    Are you gettin’ fresh with me motherfucker. Are you calling me a cretin. Think you’re fucking hard?

  99. 99
    Anonymous says:

    smug twat

  100. 100
    ST says:

    Until you give me the growth figures to close the deficit (and there will be some absolute minimum as the cost of servicing the debt means that you must increase wealth faster than this cost increases) you haven’t got a shred of an argument. If those growth figures are anything above 3% p.a. you’d then better have an incredible good reason as to why you think that’s likely.

    If your solution is to print money I’d then like an explanation as to why this isn’t simply theft. That is to say the Government spending money which once it has spent and starts circulating devalues (due to the very printing of that money) thereby ripping off those people who your party are the self proclaimed champions of – i.e. working man.

  101. 101

    Quickly, bring me a beaker of wine, that I may wet my mind and say something clever!

  102. 102
    Mark Oatibix says:

    Me actually.

  103. 103
    Alisturd Campbell says:

    I deny I’ve sexed anything up.

  104. 104
    Where you at says:

    Now, if the police duff-up an alien terorist who wants to kill and maim innocent people they must stand trial, while on the other hand if you are a police and you kill an inocent English man on his way home from work, there is no case to answer, even if it is actually on film and in front of witnesses.

  105. 105
    Mr Ned says:

    That would certainly help.

  106. 106
    Engineer says:

    Businesses would have a problem with it. If nobody has any spending power, demand evaporates and the economy slows, thus destroying businesses.

    If we export all the jobs to China and India, there will be no consumer demand in the British economy because nobody has any spending power. Hence all the talk about stimulating demand.

    The trick is trying to find the happy medium between low production costs and high demand in the economy. We were getting there in the 1980’s and 1990’s, but things have gone a bit tits-up recently.

  107. 107
    Lady Emerald-Taxdodge de Monaco says:

    We are all in this together, as I told my Filipino when she moaned about her wage cut.

  108. 108
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    His superposition would be unchanged.

  109. 109
    Anonymous says:

    Don’t bother.

  110. 110
    Engineer says:

    That very much depends on the pussy in question.

  111. 111
    Psych says:

    Near terminal envy?

    I’m keeping my fingers crossed for that one…
    Hopefully *very* near.

  112. 112
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    One hour of Ed Balls’ time would surely produce a largely increased deficit.

  113. 113
    ST says:

    I suspect we’re trading on our reputation and probably a dose of fear that if the UK is downgraded it would send a shock wave round the world

  114. 114
    moriarty says:

    Brown was running at a deficit even before the credit crunch – if government spending really does help the economy, with the amount he was ‘investing’ we shouldn’t have had a reccesion in this country at all.

  115. 115
    CharlieB says:

    Even 36% of the guardianistas think cuts are needed – very telling

  116. 116
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Schrödinger’s elephant. Now that is a thought experiment to conjure with.

  117. 117
    Mr Ned says:

    I ran and hid from what these people call “the Perseid showers” Bloody southerners, don’t recognise angry sky monsters when they see them!!!!

    Being Northern and proud of it, I could take great offence to this cruel stereotyping of Northerners, but I was too busy laughing my arse off! No in reality, this is a very funny piss take on Northerners.

    I wish the terminally unfunny, left-wing politically correct fuckwits would stop taking offence on behalf of everyone else and just learnt to laugh at funny piss-taking like any rational person!

  118. 118
    ST says:

    Correct bread maker have a gold star. However, thanks to gold old market forces that isn’t the case even before the minimum wage you dolt.

  119. 119
    Anonymous says:

    Well said Engineer, and especially so if other global econonmies are managing to balance the books.

  120. 120
    Mr Ned says:

    Not dead yet, at least, not until it is observed.

  121. 121
    ST says:

    No no no you misunderstand moriarty he should have been running an even bigger deficit to support the economy. Didn’t you know? There is no growth but government growth.

  122. 122
    Thatchers Spawn are back says:

    Evil Tories to cut child benefits and winter fuel allowances. typical monster party tactic attack the vulnerable old and very young.

  123. 123
    Anonymous says:

    I’m sure you believe that too.Markets are evil only the glorious state can provide for all.We’ll just brush all he failed states( and its associated 100 Million deaths) under the carpet then.

  124. 124
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    “Beaker of wine” becomes “line of coke” in TaT’s update on Aristophanes.

  125. 125
    Doctor Mick says:

    The overwhelming conscensus of Keynesian opinion is that the deficit change is not anthropogenic. That is to say, the country’s unprecedented level of debt was not caused by human activity. It was not caused by humans.

    You can say that again!

  126. 126
    Brown Balls says:

    Especially not cuts in our slush fund

  127. 127
    Doctor Mick says:

    We’ve got to reduce the expanding population somehow.

  128. 128

    It isn’t the strength of the arguments that matters here – it is the strength of the axioms upon which the arguments are built.

    The Leftist views intervention in commercial and social life as both desirable and necessary in order to achieve ideological goals, while the Rightist holds that the less interference in people’s affairs by the government the better, with the proviso that certain things are best provided at a state level.

    Most people fall between the two stools, but since the two approaches are inherently contradictory, no middle way can be found that is coherent.

    Thus economics, far from being a science, boils down to a matter of faith – faith in the state or faith in the market and the individual, and the two are irreconcilable.

    To me, the leftist position is absurd, elitist and ultimately totalitarian – and it ignores the reality that the state is an economic entity that has to borrow money on the free market or else devalue by printing. That is why I could never respect your arguments – because I believe that you are arguing from an unsound and unsustainable starting point.

    Now back to your deficit denying, you naughty undergrad!

  129. 129
    The society for the desrtifiacation of south eastern england says:

    they won’t be laughing when we cut the water supply to the south.

  130. 130
    Engineer says:

    A twisted argument if ever there was one – how many bankers are responsible for setting the nation’s budget? Who decided to use public money to bail out failed banks? Could it possibly have been the government of the day?

  131. 131
    Mr Ned says:

    Only due to the inbuilt bias in the seat boundaries. Once that is got rid of, the tories would be the biggest party.

    The latest poll I saw was tories 39% labour 33%

  132. 132
    welcome to pseuds corner says:

    If you mean it could now be scrapped off the road and used as a frisby, you’re dead right.

  133. 133
    Doctor Mick says:

    The only time Brown is seen is when he turns up to Westminster once a month to sign on.

  134. 134
    Ting Tong says:

    You pay me now

  135. 135
    I ching says:

    Yes but now China has opened up their 3 trillion bond market why bother with the small change 3rd world like the UK.

  136. 136
    Braveheart says:

    I didn’t see or hear any such quote from Ed Balls, and I seriously doubt that he made it (excepting a slip). But I’ll be seeing him tomorrow night so if you could give me the source I’ll ask him about it.

    It’s not just me and Alastair Darling… Darling had outline plans published before the election which the IMF said would be sufficient to half the defecit in 4 years…

    You say “Labour cannot have it both ways. They cannot on the one hand claim that they were planning massive cuts to bring the deficit down, and on the other refuse to say where any of their cuts were to be made in order to politically oppose each and every cut that follows.”

    You obviously didn’t read my post very carefully. Labour’s plans (IMF approved) were for £74billion tax rises/public sector cuts. Osborne’s re for £144billion…that’s £40 billion more. Labour is quite entitled to oppose £40billion of Osborne’s cuts without saying where they would have cut (because they would not have).

    And the Tories are not yet revealing all their cuts, they are waiting (quite rightly) for a detailed review by the civil service to decide the details. So you cannot attack the opposition for having no detail when the governmnet, with all theresources of the civil service at its disposal, has not got all the details either( e.g. wil the winter fuel allowance be cut?..the question is being ased, but not answered)

    Back to the point of Guido’s post: Labour is not in deficit denial, it admits cuts are needed. It just does not agree with the speed and depth of Osborbne’s cuts… that’s not denial, that’s a reasonable position to take.

  137. 137
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    -(10,726,614+6,836,824) = -17,563,438

  138. 138

    I’m Welsh, and someone the other day posted “The Welshman can make a good soldier, especially when led by White Officers”.

    After I stopped pissing myself laughing, I had to congratulate him on his utter un-PCness. Classic, and like you I hate it when people take offence on my behalf.

  139. 139
    ST says:

    Don’t be a wanker there are plenty of people on council estates who don’t do this.

  140. 140
    Gordon says:

    = a 0% rise

  141. 141
    Take a gun.Put it in your mouth. says:

    The great bore is back telling the same old crap joke he did yesterday 50 times and the day before.

  142. 142
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    I thought southerners were quite happy just drinking each other’s piss?

  143. 143
    Defecate Deniers says:

    If you earned it you’re entitled to it.

    If you blag off the state you’re a tosser

  144. 144
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    The last thing to go through his brain was the grenade casing.

  145. 145

    Is that Keynes speak for “It wasnae me – a big boy did it and ran away”?

  146. 146
    Only nutters says:

    What kind of cretin would admit he was from the UK.

  147. 147
    Dave Ward says:

    Aren’t you rather leaving reality yourself?

    These people aren’t suggesting there isn’t a deficit, or it won’t need to be addressed. They’re taking issue with the speed and depth of Osborne’s cuts agenda.

    Serious economists around the world disagree about this, so its hardly leaving reality.

  148. 148
    The Judge says:

    Name them then Baroness Huddin?

  149. 149

    Just so long as David f***ing Blaine’s not involved!

  150. 150
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    @Doctor Mick
    On “Public Accepts Need for Spending Cuts”, your post @ August 18, 2010 at 12:01 am, has been answered – in case you wanted to defend yourself.

  151. 151
    White Van Man says:

    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

  152. 152
    Engineer says:

    Wrong. Angry twat.

    I don’t want large chunks of my tax disappearing into the rapacious maw of the money-lenders. I’d rather it was spent (cost-effectively) on the defence of the realm, keeping the Queen’s peace, and assets of benefit to the nation’s population. NOT in paying interest on a huge debt.

  153. 153
    ST says:

    Until you lot start drawing your argument from empirical realities rather than convoluted ideology I’ll continue to scoff. This is not to say I think the left has nothing to offer but until you start appealing to reason rather than emotion there is nothing of value in what you say.

    The left needs to tell me how it would close the deficit and do so convincingly i.e. with facts and figures rather than vague promises of growth.

  154. 154
    Liar Byrne says:

    I’m affraid there’s no money left!

  155. 155

    Bet TaT’s kept the satyrs in – probably modelled them on his mum!

  156. 156
    for fawkes sake says:

    Perhaps Labour should have started cutting years ago, and we wouldn’t be in this fucking mess in the first place, you self satisfied, dopey twat.

  157. 157
    Doctor Mick says:

    Typical of weaselly politicians. Claim credit for what goes right; blame others for what goes wrong.

    Kennedy said (before he died) that success has a thousand fathers but failure is an orphan.

  158. 158
    Gladstone Screwer says:

    I agree these cuts need to be made quicker and deeper.

  159. 159
    Desperate Dan says:

    According to their online poll, 64% of Guardian readers are Deficit Deniers.

  160. 160
    Wheatchief says:

    “Most people fall between the two stools”
    Then a middle way has to be found. It is not a self evident truth there isn’t one. The axiom there is that people assume there is not.

  161. 161
    The People says:

    We gathered that…

  162. 162
    Anonymous says:

    Children as yet unborn,obviously,haven’t cast a vote yet have had their tax money spent.How fair is that.Robbing tomorrows children for largesse today is deeply immoral and corrupt.The coalition should be HAMMERING them with this at every turn.

  163. 163
    Krednip says:

    He was squashed on the A33. A local lady, Chairperson of the Cats’ Protection League, who takes it upon herself to dabble in such matters, had him placed on a sheet of plywood (a bier reserved for this purpose) and led a deputation of like-minded ladies to the front door of his presumed owner — in which presumption the ladies were mistaken.

    After the bell had been rung, a man opened the door and said: “What’s this? I didn’t order a pizza.”

  164. 164
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Reminds me of Taff showering off the black dust in the colliery, which covered him except for his member. When a new miner commented on it, a friend said, “Taff went home to see the wife lunchtime”.

  165. 165
    H Morgan Jnr says:

    I’m up for some piracy

  166. 166
    ST says:

    Fine then be grown up about it and demand the contenders for your leadership have something useful to say about it. You can’t engage in debate unless the other side is willing to do so. Darling at least recognises this and, for what its worth, won my respect both now and during his time in number 11.

    Tell me where the cuts would have been, in general terms, for their planned $74bn deficit reduction.

  167. 167
    The Abbott says:

    I’m looking upwards and rolling my eyeballs in a dismissive way…

  168. 168
    Waste of space says:

    All economists should be dismissed and replaced with mathematicians.

  169. 169
    ST says:

    About 1/4 of my family.

  170. 170
    White Van Man says:

    Talking like that about council house/working class people is no help at all, without them on board we’d all have ZaNuLiebaour forever!

    So watch your fucking mouth Sir Skint, slowly slowly and all that…

  171. 171
    Doctor Mick says:

    My, we have an ego.

  172. 172
    Adios nulab. says:

    Capitalism chugs along OK if you allow market forces to decide. That means no intervention and allowing those who take risks in the capitalist system to either sink or swim depending on the outcome. That is what props up the system. Unfair maybe but that is the fundamental basis of a free market economy.

    In 2003 when the stock markets were very down, (much lower than they were in the recent drop), Greenspananomics was hailed as the new financial system. Based on house prices and absurd borrowing and completely adopted by brown, this system has effectively brought the country to it’s knees. Added to this the absurd “investment” in public services has run up the largest deficit we have known.

    There are one of two ways out.

    1). Cuts, cuts and more cuts. It will be hard and painful but will in the eyes of the international markets give Britain a chance to recover.

    2). Withdraw from the international community, renege on our debts and become self sufficient, bartering and creating a completely new economic system.

  173. 173
    Outsider says:

    I live in a council house on the edge of an estate and owe nothing to anyone.getting out of debt by borrowing was something I spotted at an early age as a scam.

  174. 174
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    And it really happened! Captured for future generations to puzzle over. Watch “Being There” by Peter Sellars, it shows how these things happen by people believing what they want to.

  175. 175
    Can't remember my moniker says:


  176. 176
    rob says:

    According to recent polling, 35% of the population believe that there is no need to cut the deficit. 35% of the population also support Labour. An amazing coincidence…

  177. 177
    ST says:

    I know its appealing isn’t it? There’s a lot we could learn from the lefty book of propaganda guilt by association being a classic. Start by reading the Communist manifesto its a real eye-opener and you can see in the rhetoric the outline of the tactics the left use to this day.

  178. 178
    Moaty says:

    I will live forever now as my ashes are scattered on the riverbank at Rothbury,wahay.Moaty tourist and shrine.

  179. 179
    Anonymous says:

    “deficit deniers”.Delicious I love !

  180. 180
    submit or else says:

    You gobshite RoP supremacist c’unt hassan, why don’t you remind us all again that you think we are all animals?

    Unbelievable that anyone treats this turd with respect.

  181. 181

    I’m not denying the existence of a middle way, merely that of a logically coherent middle way which can be used as the basis for economic discourse.

    There probably is an optimal way to run a state, but it involves compromise and the decision as to whether we should start with a minimal state and add to it as needed or try to mould the current monolithic disaster into something useful is a matter of personal taste.

    Noone seems able to take the intellectual leap to the position that starting small and building as needed is both necessary and desirable – the tinkering round the edges that even the Coalition plans represents is not going to be anywhere near enough to create the growth to build our way out of recession.

  182. 182
    Ed Balls says:

    You’re on 120k per year and a gold plated pension, what the f*uck do you know about the real world?

  183. 183
    Monglicker says:

    why do you give a shit,your not even in the UK.

  184. 184
    Betty Bogglesworth says:

    Well as a fair proportion of them are uni lecturers, social workers, quangoists and fave-a-day coordinators who will be first against the wall, it’s hardly suprising.

  185. 185
    Ed Balls says:

    35% also receive some kind of state handout – funny that innit?

  186. 186
    ST says:

    A quick glance at the Guardian’s balance sheet would have told you this.

  187. 187
    Gramsci's catamites says:

    Exactl right John, paying more than the education budget on interest payments is really a matter of opinion.

    Did the postmodernists remove your brain?

  188. 188
    Gordon Brown says:

    Yes mummy, I am a dirty boy this morning and do need to wash my hands as Sarah came back from her rug munching trip to Canterbury to give me a boston steamer last night.

    I loved it, and she even did me a little special one in my eye socket too!

    I did splooge splooge mummy!

  189. 189
    Mongdrone says:

    If the world wasn’t full of banker loan sharks demanding ever higher and higher mafia repayment rates people may be able to get out of debt. But tha’ts not what they want is it? They want to enslave with debt.

  190. 190
    Sir William Waad says:

    Ed Balls’ hangover cure: keep drinking.

  191. 191
    Ed Balls says:

    ‘Serious economists around the world disagree about this’

    You mean there are some non-serious economists around the world? Do they have flowers in their button-holes that squirt water? I’ve never met one yet!

  192. 192
    Anonymous says:

    Isn’t it Comrade Toilets who was spotted wearing tails and swigging champagne in the VIP room at a certain racecourse.Up the workers eh ! What a cocksucker.

  193. 193
    Krednip says:

    Hi, I’m Krednip and I’m a BBC bell-end.

  194. 194
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Responding in kind, with facts and offering you the courtesy of knowing about it’s existence. If that is an ego, then I am Vincent van Gogh.

  195. 195
    Ed Balls says:

    Today I’ll mostly be denying the deficit exists, thank you.

  196. 196
    purpleline says:

    Because they do not have the banking infrastructure and history of re-payment. The most important thing is their currency is not freely convertible.

    And sorry to remind you they are a communist country, always apply the test, would you put your money in there? If not because you might not get it back then why would fund managers risk it.

    Confidence in finance is paramount Osborne understands that and I am afraid the Chinese will need to behave impeccably, open up fully their market, float their currency, allow foreign ownership of Chinese companies and privatise state run monopolies. Then after about 15 years the risk reward my be worth it.

  197. 197
    Stupid Kunts follow fashion,drones R Us says:

    Who gives a fuck if theres a tick on their trainers or not.

  198. 198
    Gordon Brown says:

    I’ll be making a statement to the house on the none existence of the deficit later this afternoon, thank you.

  199. 199
    Anonymous says:

    I told you not to fucking bother, didn’t I?

  200. 200
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Yes. And that is metamorphosing for public consumption into “Tory bankers” even when a number of those were NewLab supporting in order to free themselves of controls.

  201. 201
    Syrup in beer says:

    hair of the dog,never heard of it?

  202. 202
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    More like giving her Trabi brain time to think of another excuse.

  203. 203
    what taffy said to his wife says:

    you dirty twat.

  204. 204
    Medhi Hussein says:

    Bud bud bud, bud bud bud, bud bud bud, deficit?

  205. 205
    Anonymous says:

    The moral of your story is people should not allow themselves to be enslaved by debt (either personally or governmentally)letting the markets or bankers call the shots is very foolish.Spending wisely and only borrowing to invest is not bad advice.

  206. 206
    Trevors Den says:

    Looks like Osborne has it upon a catchy phrase.

  207. 207
    Try summit new says:

    Keynes is dead

  208. 208
    Shire Tory says:

    you mean before he hit the bottle? Oh, sorry, wrong Kennedy

  209. 209
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    At Last! somwone who can spell, “deficit”.

  210. 210
    BMA says:

    Thank fuck you were struck off

  211. 211
    Sir William Waad says:

    The IMF would not exist if governments around the world were willing to manage their own finances competently. Unfortunately Governments like to spend money they haven’t got, for various reasons: to win votes, because they genuinely want to help, because it feels good, because they can personally make money on the side or out of sheer insouciance. The IMF is then the lender of last resort for the improvident.

    It is natural for those who overspend to pin the blame on those who have lent them money, in the same way that serial killers blame their victims. Governments have the advantages of being composed of skilful liars and commanding a powerful PR system to shunt blame for their misfeasance onto third parties. Don’t be fooled! Governments are capable of financial competence and nobody forces them to goof up.

  212. 212
    Stop hiding behind the word Progressive you Marxist bastards says:

    These Labour fukkers need sectioning – they are, without doubt, ‘effin madmen oops sorry Diane – you too!

  213. 213
    The BBC/Labour Coalition Party says:

    Today we’ll mostly be talking about cuts cuts and more cuts, and we have decided to make up some possible future cuts that may happen too!

  214. 214
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Pretty much the point that I have been making about needing a political philosophy. What do we stand for?

    I can accept that others have different values and therefore philosophical positions. What I cannot stand is government by crude expedient.

  215. 215
    going down on a black arsehole says:

    Where the fuck have you been? Superstring theory has been superceded. Everything is now made out of arseholes, in fact you could be sitting on one right now. Makes you think don’t it?

  216. 216
    the poor and vulnerable of society says:

    fuck you, you patronising cuпt.

  217. 217
    Broadcasting from Gordon Browns downstairs toilet says:

    I made you comment

    My work is done

  218. 218
    Bob says:

    Full retard!

  219. 219
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    I would suggest that there is so much unsecured public and private debt sloshing about the World that no-one dare make any sort of guess as to the state of global liquidity. A bit like hiding under the duvet so the monster under the bed won’t get you, except that the monster is real.

  220. 220
    The Bottle Fed Triplet says:

    Immoral in many ways as well as hypocritical. I do not approve of prostitution on the rates but can I have my money back or ask that it not be spent on such things? No, thought not. Quite a turn around for those “principled” lefties on councils who demanded that no taxpayers’ money be spent on Outspan oranges from apartheid South Africa. I even came across a Labour activist who refused to buy Birdseye frozen peas for school dinners because Clarence Birdseye was a major donor to the ‘Tories’.

    So that does give me the right to “demand” a boycott on immoral spending?

    Glenryck pilchard anyone?

  221. 221
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Printing money and blaming the Bankers = medieval coin clipping and blaming the children of god.

  222. 222
    Elephant goes beserk and squashes CRMM says:

    Yeah, I’m just imagining it right now.

  223. 223
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    ….and that’s Nil %.

  224. 224
    Minimus says:

    Don’t know about the date but can I do the catering for the ‘sinisters’?

    Starter. Produce of Chernobyl salad with Sellafield crab

    Main Course. African monkey meat, certified disease free by S.Staffs Hospital

    Cocktail. Austrian wine, a fruity blend of antifreeze and grape juice

  225. 225
    BBC Weatherman says:

    Spin on that sucker !

  226. 226
    Anonymus says:

    I’d compare it to “in denial”. Just listen to rehab by Amy Winehouse. Quite clearly a big list of excuses from someone trying to avoid the truth.

  227. 227
    Grumpy Old Man says:

    Can’t burn mags anymore – it’s not Green.

  228. 228
    Ron says:

    Ego fancio Hermionem.

  229. 229
    Anonymous says:

    Take it easy Sir Trev not all the working class live the way you describe (myself being one,albeit the aspirational sort) or support “big government” and their handouts.Many of us see the truth about Labour, how they want people to depend on them and take away the ladders of aspiration.Council estate does not always=Labour supporters.Infact I can’t abide them and would rather walk blindfold into traffic than support them.

  230. 230
    Mr Micawber says:

    Fuck me, it’s not rocket science is it?

  231. 231
    Special Treatment... says:

    Die Ann fatbot, is the biggest racial and gender hustler MP in the country.

    She is so good at it she’s even challenged Guido’s blog/forum and now you can’t even type her name without it being censored out. You can’t mention her weight, you can’t say she’s a racist or mention her favourite food.

    You have to think on before typing anything about her now.

  232. 232
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Thank you GOM. I presume you refer to the defecators?

  233. 233
    Sam Bowe says:

    I laugh when everyone calls me chalky

  234. 234
    Elected House of Lords NOW!!! says:

    If there were to be an election now it would be under the old gerrymandered rules that swing the result unfairly in Labour’s direction. That’s why there won’t be one and that’s why the rules are going to be changed.

    Get used to it.

  235. 235
    The Copenhagen school of economics says:

    The reality is that we neither have or have not a deficit until it is oberved.

    It is the act of observation which causes the deficit waveform to colapse and pop the deficit into existence.

    So if I were you Id keep my head in the sand and dont on any account Look at the Blance sheets.

    Thats what I told Gordon Brown and Ed Balls anyway

  236. 236
    Anonymous says:

    It’ll be a nice place to have a piss.

  237. 237

    Rule 1 of Political sloganeering – If your slogan sounds stupid it won’t work.

    So we see the result of handing over Cameron’s political strategy to Hilton again.
    A policy wonk makes up a silly policy wonk word.

    Why no-one in the Conservative Party stopped Hilton and Osborne in their tracks, pointing out that it sounded stupid and the far more obvious, easy to understand and less idiotic DEBT Deniers was the one to go for, is harded to explain.

  238. 238
    Afghanistani Franny says:

    Why don’t Dave and Nick up the opium production to solve the deficit.

  239. 239
    Take it out of that says:

    Heres one. Lender.You owe me.
    Borrower.Fuck off.

  240. 240
    FFS ! Grow Up Ed says:

    When my children were young they had, in common with all children Im sure, the rather charming habit of covering their eyes with their hands when they had done something wrong.

    This came from a mistaken belief that if they couldnt ee the wrongdoing then neither could we.

    Could someone pleae explain this to Ed Balls as simply placing his hands so to speak over the deficit is in fact futile it is still there and we can still see it.

  241. 241
    My bird fucks me better thanks says:

    patronising? Fuck me if you think that you must have been a trick biker.

  242. 242
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Intueri de Bergson.

  243. 243
    White Van Man says:

    They do, and even worse they think everyone else does.

  244. 244
    Abandon Ship says:

    All of the US economy is in there,so by your rule if they go we all go.

  245. 245
    Shire Tory says:

    Living in what used to be Danelaw. I’m available for a little rape and pillage later.

  246. 246
    Sir William Waad says:

    I prefer 12-denier, preferably in black.

  247. 247
    I always says:

    5th November do?

  248. 248
    think on says:

    He who denied it, supplied it.

  249. 249

    So you’re denying debt and are clearly irresponsible to do so.

    Government. You have a deficit. Opposition. Fuck off.

    Doesn’t have any of the clarity, urgency or clear irresposibility of debt.

    Deficit is a Policy wonk word and always will be.

  250. 250
    Steves' mum says:

    Where is Brillo – he is needed – a lone voice at Labour/BBC – telling it as it really is and holding Balls et al up to scrutiny – unlike the rest of the Left wing loony BBC interviewers

  251. 251
    Bob says:

    Charities campaigning politically should be struck off…

    Stop this left wing betrayal of the basic principles of any charity…

  252. 252
    Steves' mum says:

    Except “why should people to be forced to take jobs paying ledsd than £40,000 a year – even if they are illiterate idle feckless idiots – and vote Labour”

  253. 253
    Steves' mum says:

    SORRY – less!

  254. 254
    The Revd. Phoney ‘£rd-Way’ Sanctimonious Bliar, ***, **** + ******, emoting & wiv stupid grin says:

    I’ve heard it said that no nation should ever believe it’s government.

    So no probs in denying the deficit.

    That’s why I found it hard to understand why people so easily believed the bollocks and bullshit me and my lot churned out.

    I suppose it was the cultivation of 5th rate ‘celebs’ that helped – that and the ‘Kulture of Yoof’.

    Anyway, me ‘n the missus done OK out of it.

    Poor old Gord hasn’t done so well though has he?

    Of course, I should ‘of’ sacked him years ago. But it was easier to send our boys to war than do that. Oh well.

    But me boy Dave seems to be making headway. And of course he’s got a big head start on me wiv the personal fortune.

    But hey! Trust me! I’m a straight up air-guitar headed guy.

  255. 255
    Green Party and eco luvvies says:

    We can do even better…

    Stop nuclear energy, stop the use of fossil fuels,

    Onne hour of electricity per day

    When the wsind blows

    Or 1/2 hour when the sun shines…

    GO BACK TO THE STONE AGE my friends…

  256. 256
    Mr Plum says:

    Its hardly a new idea we have climate change deniers, but they are not insane

  257. 257
    the poor and vulnerable of society says:

    “My bird fucks me better thanks”….boyfriend more like.

    …..and, we don’t need hand wringing, bed wetting wankers like you bigging yourself up by supposedly supporting the ‘poor and vulnerable.’

    Now do one.

  258. 258
    Gurner and Blinky's school of economics says:

    Silly boy

    We put half of the debt off balance sheet

    So that even when the balance sheet is published

    It does not appear

    We are clever you see

  259. 259
    White Van Man says:

    Yeah, I’m getting the feeling now.

    Its all talky talky and no action atm, we’re getting back the the reality of the situation now with the honeymoon period over.
    That reality is that coalitions are inherently weak, and its starting to show already.

  260. 260
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    Engineer. of course, most of the jobs getting exported are “people making things”.

    Apparently it is possible to have an economy where everyone opens doors for each other. It just doesnt seem sustainable- but unlike the credit boom, I’m not sure whether anyone has really taken it on board.

    I do remember arguments back in the 80’s about the “service economy”, which is where I get that “opening doors” analogy from.

  261. 261
    Someone will pay for this says:

    Merde. I have savings, no debt, and I’m prudent. Why am I therefore being penalised?

  262. 262
    The Bottle Fed Triplet says:

    I have not allowed myself to be enslaved by debt. I have only bought what I could afford. It is a generational “thing”. Even so I will now be affected by the state of the economy along with all the other incontinent profligates who “maxed out” on numerous credit cards and 125% mortgages.

    Justice, what justice?

    It only goes to show that virtue is its own reward. (i.e. that’s all the reward you’ll get!)

  263. 263
    Perhaps a King says:

    The old adage.too many cooks.

  264. 264
    Pete Taylor says:

    If you seriously want to kick start the economy. May I suggest the following;
    Make the police, highways agency, councils etc buy British built vehicles it’s fucking insulting to a recently unemployed automotive worker to be pulled by a fucking BMW. There are good enough models built in this country & the plants are on their arses.
    Shame all MP’s who’s cars are foreign made too. What’s wrong with Jaguar & Aston it’s fucking treason to see them poncing around in some hun helmet on wheels.

    In short (now the rant is over) all government agencies to buy British 1st. Fuck the fucking E.U regulations.

  265. 265
    Politician-for-life says:

    More than you, probably. When was the last time you had a real job?

  266. 266
    The Punisher says:

    Everyone’s got the message now, we all know the situation and god knows its been going on since 2008 this talk, its about time to make the moves.

  267. 267
    False Flag says:

    Fuck off, Aaronobitch.

  268. 268
    White Van Man says:

    I wish they’d fucking get on with it, the sooner the better!

  269. 269
    albacore says:

    What a wicked sense of humour you have, Fawkes.
    The BBC today reports the deficit (i.e. the annual INCREASE in borrowing) to be £155 billions and the Lobby Ludd Lib/Labs are wetting their knickers over a this year, next year, maybe, sometime, never reduction of it by 25%.
    They’re scratting around like salt-tailed chickens for the daftest possibilities imaginable. (Pensioners’ bus passes and kids’ milk were obvious top priorities, of course).
    Labour, Tory or Liberal, they’re all dancing to the same drumbeat – and it ain’t Drake’s.

  270. 270
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    You cannot squash a moniker.

  271. 271
    dwells in council abode. says:

    Support last sentence in its entirety.

  272. 272
    concrete pump says:

    Where did that come from? Don’t get me wrong, it’s funny, i’m just wondering what you were doing when piss drinking southerners came into your head.

    Fuck, ‘piss drinking southerners coming into your head’ i’m doing it now.


  273. 273
    SBD says:

    That would be Gordeeeeee

  274. 274
    White Van Man says:


  275. 275
    Annoyed Englishman says:

    Why can we not persuade the Jocks to take independence ?

    Are the Jocks getting serious and just wanting to sponge on us for ever ?

  276. 276
    Why it won't happen says:

    The Transport Department will get the biggest slice of the cuts so can’t afford a pick and choose policy based on nationality and not cost.

    Most car ‘British’ companies are foreign owned and some of the biggest automotive employers in the UK aren’t famous British companies either.

  277. 277
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    As long as it doesnt crawl up your leg and lodge on your testicles.

  278. 278
    Biffo says:

    Pleased to see that Eddy ‘I only blink when I’m lying’ Noballs is tipped to be the first loser in the Labour Leadership Contest. Couldn’t happen to a nicer or more deserving person – unless of course McSnot was running again. Oh wait, McSnot never ran in any contest – he never won the leadership did he?

  279. 279
    Ron E. says:

    Because they are so bitter and chippy.

  280. 280
    Pete Taylor says:

    But they are built here.

  281. 281
    Jesus says:

    blessed be the poor for they shall inherit fuck all.

  282. 282
    The Guvner says:

    Why wait for the Scotch? The English should be given a vote for English Independence.

  283. 283
    The Bottle Fed Triplet says:

    A Chemist, an Engineer and an Economist were stranded on a desert island with only the clothes they stood up in. There was nothing to eat and they were very hungry. The next day a packing case full of tins of baked beans was washed up on the beach. They removed the tins and debated how to get the beans out of the tins.

    The Chemist said, “If we scraped the tin plate off the rim, the salt water will react with the steel and rust the lid so it would come off.”

    The Engineer said, “If we lit a fire and placed the tin on it, the heat would make the beans expand and burst the lid off, thereby opening the tin and cooking the beans at the same time.”

    The Economist said, “Let’s assume that we have a tin opener.”

  284. 284
    Lium Burn says:

    …which is why I can’t afford a spellchecker.

  285. 285
    streamfisher says:

    ‘Pensioners bus passes and kids milk’ should be the top priority for cuts, I refer of course to the unspeakable, the professional scroungers that inhabit the HOC and the HOL.

  286. 286
    Pete Taylor says:


  287. 287
    Anonymous says:

    It’s like, “I’m using the word progessive, all argument stops here.” Fucking leftie wankers.

  288. 288
    South of the M4 says:

    2 million cars ‘ built ‘ in the UK each year. Still a sizeable industry and providing positive knock-ons for local suppliers and other businesses. And you are right, a British ‘built’ Honda Accord can do the same job the BMW does. Might be a bit slower – but the plod can’t chase the crooks anyway these days as it may harm their human rights.

  289. 289
  290. 290
    The Bottle Fed Triplet says:

    Ha Ha Matey, us Southerners have got chalk aquifers. That’s why, this summer, in the longest period without rain for the the last 25 years we didn’t have a hose pipe ban but they had them ‘Oop North’.

    I bet you’ll threaten to cut of supplies of black pudding and tripe next! We don’t need you, we have our own whippet plantations in poly tunnels just outside Watford!

  291. 291
    herewegoagain says:

    Yes it would be nice to know what percentage of the problem is due to the bank bailouts and PFI profligacy.

    At the time of the crisis Broon and Barry had the chance to cut the banks down to size, now we’ve basically financed the consolidation into mega banks that don’t care.

    They can enrich themselves from casino banking and don’t need to loan to the plebs, thank you very much.

  292. 292
    yawn says:

    more tatwank

  293. 293
    South of the M4 says:

    Oh, and another thing. Go to France and tell me if you see a non-French built
    plod car, or any public vehicle for that matter. Same for Germany. EU rules? The UK is the only country that adopts them as is, every other country adopts them as a target to work toward. Some time, maybe, perhaps.

  294. 294
    Pete Taylor says:

    I concur.

  295. 295
    Pete Taylor says:

    why stop there. Remove wales from the golden tit as well.

  296. 296

    State Housing = Ghettos = Benefit dependents = unfair taxation on the hardworking.

    To those above who claim to be in council housing and yet doing alright??? WTF are you up to, get your own property so that you can free up the state housing for those who need it FFS!

    Council houses are for temporary situations in financial or employed status. They are not for life!

  297. 297
    streamfisher says:

    *** Breaking news***
    Gordon pledges to give his £156 billion deficit to charity.

  298. 298
    Sir Everard Digby says:

    Quite agree but what exactly is the opposing argument which needs to be considered,other than ‘whatever you say we say it’s wrong’ ? Hardly a worthy position for the left is it?

  299. 299
    50 Calibre says:

    Balls, bollocks balls bollocks…

    What’s the difference?

  300. 300
    sockpuppet #4 says:

    the bit about thames water being through other people’s kidneys.

    Some places do use river water for tapwater. When in london, drink beer.

  301. 301
    50 Calibre says:

    I live in France. It would be unthinkable to see any of the state’s employees driving anything other that a French built car. Gendarmes on two wheels are the only exception.

  302. 302
    The Lefts main debating tactic says:

    Progressive, Progressive, Keys,Keys I win I win !!!!

  303. 303
    Rufus Stone says:

    I have been denied pussy.

  304. 304
    Sir Everard Digby says:

    What are you talking about?

    The position is simple:

    The longer we take to balance the budget, the more money is borrowed on the way, and the bigger the national debt we end up with. A bigger national debt means more spending on interest instead of public services. So if your policy leads to a bigger debt than the other lot, in the long run you are the attacker not the defender of public services.

    Successive fuckwit governments have not grasped this principle and you seem equally oblivious to it.

    I accept that growth will assist in reducing a deficit but not in our case – deficit levels are increasing by c20% per annum. Growth ain’t going to reach that level I am willing to bet.

    What’s happening? Taxes are going up so that some of the unpaid for spending can be maintained, and by 2015 there will still be higher spending than there was in the Blair years. Farewell public services. Yet you support a situation which would make this worse?

  305. 305

    The question that pollers ask is

    When asked did they agree that “There is a real need to cut spending on public services in order to pay off the very high national debt we now have”


    When asked did they agree that “There is a real need to cut spending on public services in order to pay off the deficit”

    For a reason, because the predictable result of handing over Cameron’s political strategy to Hilton again is that a policy wonk makes up a silly policy wonk phrase.

    Rule 1 of Political sloganeering – If your slogan sounds stupid it won’t work.

    Debt Deniers is easy to understand and carries the connotation of irresponsibility whereas Deficit Deniers just sounds like meaningless political in-speak & policy wank.

  306. 306
    Socialism Ate My Future says:

    We wouldn`t even be having this discussion if your beloved party had shown some spending restraint, even before those “evil bankers” got involved you were running a deficit that would make an onion cry.

    Just take your party and it`s ideology back to Scotland (or Robroyston :P) where it belongs.

  307. 307
    Cassandrina says:

    I find it difficult to believe after listening to Diane Abbott explain why she should be Labour Party Leader / PM on the yesterday why she would not be first to lose in the leadership race.
    No person in their right mind could imagine her being leader let alone PM.
    However in the Politically Correct Labour Party they may have to cheat to achieve this not to happen. Cheating is something they believe they are good at, contrary to popular opinion.

  308. 308
    Tony Blair says:

    she’s a C’unt who said me and my war was wrong
    how out of tune with the public can you get ?

  309. 309
    Greg VanDyke says:

    Did you hear it being interviewed by Eddie Maire(?) on Monday. Fucking useless she was. Couldn’t answer a question seemed completely out of her depth when the issue of the budget deficit came up. And when asked about hypocrisy for sending her sprog to a selective school whilst criticising her colleagues for doing the same, did she address the question head on? did she fuck. Really weak. If she ever became pm we’d be a laughing stock!

  310. 310
    It's the deficit, stupid says:

    Chinese Credit Rating Agency ‘Dagong’ has its own take on sovereign credit worthiness.

    The US falls to AA, while Britain and France slither down to AA-. Belgium, Spain, Italy are ranked at A- along with Malaysia.

    Meanwhile, China rises to AA+ with Germany, the Netherlands and Canada, reflecting its €2.4 trillion (£2 trillion) reserves and a blistering growth rate of 8pc to 10pc a year.

    Dominique Strauss-Kahn, chief of the International Monetary Fund, agreed on Monday that the rising East is a transforming global force. “Asia’s time has come,” he said.

  311. 311
    Hard-Lazing Voter says:

    With that logic, no wonder you winded up on the NS. You could have stayed with a news media platform actually making a profit and carved out a decent audience for yourself, but noooooooo.

  312. 312
    Lenny Maclean says:

    Yes, yes and yes.

  313. 313
    Minekiller says:

    It is great fun to listening to the rantings and insane mutterings of Balls, Toilets et al… was more worrying before last May, since the Bollox nutter may actually still have made it to No 11.

  314. 314
    Minekiller says:

    The Charity being….The Gordon Brown Faithless Foundation

  315. 315
    Minekiller says:

    And give Bigotistan to the child rapists in Dublin.

  316. 316
    Lateral Demigod says:

    It’s a bit demeaning to describe Gordon as a mere ‘Deficit Denier’ – he was after all, the chief architect of the deficit.

  317. 317
    Minekiller says:

    Oxfam-Novib (Netherlands) an ‘independent charity’ of the Oxfam family are making 25% of their staff in Holland redundant, owing to cutbacks in government funding. It is about time the Coalition in the UK went about dealing with this other aspect of NuLabour clientalism, which since 1997 saw many charities flooded with taxpayers cash in return for fake politicised ‘policy’ or ‘expert’ advice, while their offices and senior posts were filled with Labour placemen and women. The Dutch have recognised it and are dealing with it…gosh how the Dutch economy or developing world will miss a few lefty wimmin with bollox ‘degrees’ in ‘Development’ or ‘Public Administration’!

  318. 318
    Cameron agreed with Labour's Public Spending plans until the polls turned and the Banks collapsed says:

    Cameron breaks with Labour on spending as polls turn against him

    Joe Murphy, Political Editor

    DAVID CAMERON abandoned his commitment to match Labour on spending today as an opinion poll showed his lead over Gordon Brown has been almost wiped out.

  319. 319
    Minekiller says:

    I know a couple of places in the UK, that if an academic reads the Independent he is considered a dangerous reactionary.

  320. 320
    Mr Ned says:

    Indeed, The Paragnostic. But it is only a starting point, and it would be better than the current bits of paper, or electronic bits of information that are invented out of thin air and with interest charged upon.

    In abstract terms: under my proposed system, you give me one unit of currency and I give you one unit of effort as a fair exchange. Non taxable, and no interest to pay.

    If I borrow one unit of currency, then I repay one unit of currency (no interest) or give one unit of currency’s worth of effort.

    If I then use this one unit of currency to purchase an item which I then sell for more than one unit (without providing my time to change or add value to this object) then that is commerce and is taxable. As in the buying and selling of goods.

    If I buy an item, spend my time adding value to that item and then sell it for a profit, then that profit pays for my time and is not taxable.

  321. 321
    Mr Ned says:

    I am giving them until October when the comprehensive spending revue is published. We will all have a much clearer picture of what will and will not be cut then.

    One thing is for sure. They will cut far too little for those on the right and cut far too much for those on the left.

    Personally I hope that whatever they do cut, it starts to really solve the economic problems we are faced with and does not create even worse ones.

  322. 322
    Mr Ned says:

    Being there… That takes me back.. Genius film, although I thought it was very odd and very boring when I first watched it when I was about 13.

  323. 323
    Oliver Cromwell says:

    Very funny Krednip. *****

  324. 324
    ST says:

    No but there is one with a flower in his name..

  325. 325
    Mr Ned says:

    Absolutely. The sooner the deficit is reduced, and then the debt reduced (in about 10 – 20 years) the sooner the Government can spend more on health and defence and education and all the other things that they should be spending money on. Instead of spending billions and billions on debt interest, which only serves to be re-lent out at interest creating even more debt.

  326. 326
    Dil-doh! Deniers says:

    Rule 1 of Political slogans – If the slogan sounds stupid it won’t work.

    So we see the result of handing over Cameron’s political strategy to Hilton again. A policy wonk makes up a silly policy wonk phrase.

    Why no-one in the Conservative Party stopped Hilton and Osborne in their tracks, pointing out that it sounded stupid and the far more obvious, easy to understand and less idiotic DEBT Deniers was the one to go for, is harded to explain.

    If you are denying debt you are clearly irresponsible for doing so.

    Deficit Denier, doesn’t have any of the clarity, urgency or clear irresposibility of debt.

    Deficit is a Policy wonk word and always will be.

    The didn’t use it in the poll Guido highlights for a reason.

  327. 327
    Oliver Cromwell says:

    FFS Kenedy dead, only from the kneck up surely.

  328. 328
    Rats Arse says:

    Stop talking dirty you lot!

  329. 329
    Mr Ned says:

    Whilst there is strength in your argument to start small and build and add where necessary, it does open the door to the danger of a permanently expanding state. I am sure that you did not mean this and believe as I do that a government ought to cut where necessary too.

  330. 330
    Rats Arse says:

    I am so effing mad I could spit. Just had an unsolicited e-mail off that lying fool David Millipeed asking me to e-mail the Government [links provided] to complain about all the lies they are telling. I told him to bog off in no uncertain terms! Watch out for Millipeed’s e-mails folks!

  331. 331
    Miss Anna Grammar says:

    Stop talking dirty you lot = Tony digitally porks tout

  332. 332
    Oliver Cromwell says:

    Don’t forget the meek

  333. 333
    EC1 PhD says:

    We propose to take the workforce’s future units of currency, package up as securities backed by future earnings and slice and dice them into synthetic collateralised debt obligations and then flog the lot. Again and again and again. Except that this time the ones left holding the super-seniors won’t get tanked like AIG and the monolines did because we’ll get the government to legislate for the workforce to work harder to protect our profits and to make sure that tax payers don’t have to bail us out again. Easy. No get back to making me rich. Again.

  334. 334
    Mr Ned says:

    The IMF is not the rating agencies. The IMF is basically a corrupt American bank. I do not care what the IMF says, I care what the international markets and the international investors in this country think, for they will ultimately decide if the measures will work or not through their investment decisions.

    You say, “So you cannot attack the opposition for having no detail when the government, with all the resources of the civil service at its disposal, has not got all the details either”

    That made me laugh out loud… Labour had 13 years in power. It knew full well where it could cut or not. The coalition have only just got hold of the books for the first time 100 days ago. Labour wilfully refused to put on paper where the cuts would fall. They knew and agree that billions of pounds (74 billions according to you) of cuts were needed, so where? What would labour cut?

    You say, “Labour’s plans (IMF approved) were for £74billion tax rises/public sector cuts. Osborne’s re for £144billion…that’s £40 billion more.”

    Funny that. In the election campaign, Gordon Brown (and the rest of the labour pundits and the media) were constantly banging on about a SIX billion difference in what the labour party would cut compared to what the Tories would cut. When did this amount swell to 40 Billions? More creative use of figures by labour scaremongers no doubt. I mean, labour have never been honest with their numbers, why start now?

    As for labour not having to say where they would have cut, well that is just common decency and honesty. Two values that labour lacked consistently through their last 13 years in power. You see, when every single cut is announced by the coalition, labour now will say that they oppose it and would not have implemented it. Except that they might have been planning the same cut all along.

    I accept that labour would NOT have cut all the same things that the tories are, BUT we (as voters) have no way of knowing now if labour are telling the truth or not when they oppose any single given cut. So they are going to be able to protest every single cut, instead of just the one’s that they themselves would not have cut. This is very dishonest of labour, but then, dishonesty has been a central value to labour from the first moments they gained power and accepted a bung from Bernie to exempt F1 from tobacco advertising laws after claiming that they would be whiter than white!

  335. 335
    Mr Ned says:

    Correct Sir Everard. By refusing to cut more now, Labour would be taking the nurses of the future out of the hospitals, the teachers of the future out of the schools and the children of the future would be mired in more and deeper poverty because the interest payments and higher interest rates would remove the money from the treasury that would otherwise be available through deeper cuts now.

    That is what labour wants?

  336. 336
    Bill Clinton says:

    Oh yes you can

  337. 337
    Alex says:

    Does it really surprise anyone that Balls doesn’t think we need to worry about the deficit? This thieving piece of shit thinks he can raise taxes till the cows come home because he and his idiot wife have made their money by stealing it from us.

    In a world which really had justice in it they’d both be hanging from a rope with their guts spilling out

  338. 338
    Alex says:

    I’d love it if she won – it’ll guarantee they lose the next election. In fact come on Labour – keep the fat, ugly and mentally unstable bitch as your leader for the next thirty years please.

  339. 339
    Semen Hughes says:

    can’t see the attraction myself

  340. 340
    Ed Balls says:

    So what!

  341. 341
    Call me infidel says:

    Never underestimate the stupidity of the public. The sewer party could still weasel its way back into office. Hopefully the proposed boundary changes will shaft them for the foreseeable future though.

  342. 342
    British Citizen says:

    I object to this post! How dare you use the F A T word about a politician!

  343. 343
    British Citizen says:

    Don’t forget London ;-)

  344. 344
    Sarah Mcauley says:

    Because I am a beard

  345. 345
    Anonymous says:

    The conditions aren’t right. More housing must be built to decrease demand and therefore lower prices.Only mugs lumber themselves with bricks and mortar they can’t afford :)

  346. 346
    concrete pump as thieves says:

  347. 347
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Must be nice to be young, Mr Ned! People used to look upon Sellers (sorry, misspelled before) as just a rather slick funny man who was unhappy in real life. Like all these things, it was created by the media for whatever reason. The film, on which Sellers spent much of his reputation bringing to celluloid, illustrates his great intelligence and insight into the motivations of king makers.

    A nice aside that I discovered is that Steve Stills (of Crosby, Stills and Nash and, incidentally, one of the best guitarists of all time) bought Sellers’ previous house in Elstead, from Ringo Starr who had bought it from Sellers, and inherited his gardener, the inspiration for the film, and wrote “Johnny’s Garden”, a wonderful track, about him.

    On this page you can see a photo of Sellers, the gardener and Stills together in the grounds of the house:

  348. 348
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    Ha ha! But I was talking of an incorporeal moniker. As for Monica, even you would have a job squashing her now. She probably weighs four times what you do. That protein swells them up, wherever you spray it.

  349. 349
    Can't remember my moniker says:

    @ Mr Rats Arse

    Nil illegitimi carborundum!

  350. 350
    Expat says:

    Has Balls stopped writing his diary

  351. 351
    Mr Ned says:

    What planet was this alien from? Are the Government really covering up UFOs?

  352. 352
    Mr Hassan says:

    Who is “Medhi Hussein” – can’t find the name on the Staesman site

  353. 353
    Quentin Biscuit-Barrel says:

    “Joe Murphy, Political Editor

    That was nearly TWO YEARS AGO !!!!

    Lost in the post ???

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