January 22nd, 2010

Tories Want Drivers to Subsidise Marriage

The Tories are scrabbling a bit to justify their marriage tax allowance plans, they will always be scrabbling to justify themselves on tax during this campaign unless they start making a more optimistic case for tax revenue growth based on policies that kick start the economy rather than just putting taxes up.  They are playing a zero-sum game devised by Brown and Balls, so they have to go through a charade of finding some way of funding the plan.

They have fallen back on green taxes on motorists, yet again.  How many times have they reached for green taxes to fund a spending commitment?

1.8 million voters signed a petition against more green taxes on car users.  Drivers already pay huge amounts of tax, more taxes would be extremely unpopular – when you go green, you lose votes. Think again.

UPDATE : Osborne just denied they were going to put up car taxes on the Today programme. Good. Time for a coffee.


289 Comments

  1. 1
    SME says:

    aresholes, I am not married because I am always at work

    Like

    • 5
      Qui Bono says:

      They are bit tories, they are statist social democrats, interchangeable with New Labour

      Like

      • 7
        Qui Bono says:

        Sorry, typo that should read NOT tories

        Like

        • 16
          sockpuppet #4 says:

          Doesn’t it depend what you think a “tory” is?
          the old tory party from the 70s was probably worse than this – most of the older tories joined a party that was quite happy to be statist and tell people what to do.

          Like

          • True: the Heath government of the 170 was amazingly statist authoritarian and intrusive; had it been around today with efficient databases and CCTV it would almost certainly have been a meta-Orwellian nightmare.

            Like

          • Gordon's favourite Butt Plug says:

            Heath was old school totalitarian. Perhaps he thought that we would enjoy fagging as well. Jolly sailor, and traitor. We would have been much better with our Commonwealth as trading partners or NAFTA.

            Like

          • GORDON McBUST(and his amazing magic cheque book) says:

            totally agree Mr Butt Plug Heath Sold us out
            I wonder if it was for a piece of arse like how Mandy does his Buisness ?

            Like

          • Poor Bloody Taxpayer says:

            It has always been my theory that Heath was a closet communist. Big fan of the Marxist EU and big fan of Mao (from whom he made a lot of money). Traitor.

            Like

          • Anecdote says:

            O/T

            In the 1980’s I was priviliged to be sailing near Morning Cloud on the Solent. Our Skipper introduced me to the fun of calling Heath up on deck, when he raised his hand in aknowledgement, he was greeted by an 8 man chorus of

            ‘Edward Heath, Edward Heath you are a Hunt’

            Most enjoyable

            Like

          • The Immaculate Complexion says:

            Bloody hell, Cast Iron – You really don’t want to win the election, do you?

            Like

    • 10
      sockpuppet #4 says:

      Could be worse. What about widows?

      Like

      • 157
        Ken Lorp says:

        I never ever thought I’d ever thank the Labour party for anything, BUT ….

        … they have helped highlight the complete intellectual vacuity and muppetry at the heart of Tory leadership. I have spent months desperately trying to find a reason to say Yes to the Tories, but have now given up.

        Like

        • 180
          Animal says:

          I see Millbank trolls have finally come up with a variant of the “I’m not a fan of Gordon Brown, but…” blog comment then. Took your time with this one didn’t you?

          Keep trying, Liebore trolls. It’s fun seeing you sweat. Not long now before you’re unemployed, just like the people you sent to the dole with your wrecking of this country’s future.

          Like

    • 29
      Call me Binge Drinker Dave says:

      If the Tories are so keen to stop binge drinking and want to stop the pubs selling Cheapo Booze, why don’t they start close to home and kill the subsidized bars in westminster?

      Like

      • 46
        Jedi says:

        Never mind taxes, I want liberty and freedom from fucking Stasi nanny. NuCons are Nulab with blue ties.

        Like

        • 79
          Flat Earther says:

          Stick your light stick up your nu la bour arse your party wrote the book on “fucking stasi nannies”

          Like

    • 254
      Private Widdle says:

      In that case, Cameron and co. can fuck off. This is wrong on so many levels. It’s not a “green tax” if it’s not hypothecated to “green” issues, it’s just “tax”. I’m fucking sick of being told that I’m damaging the environment simply by going about my lawful business, creating value/revenue which these cocknsniffers then tax the bejesus out of.

      I’ve fucking had it up to here.

      I want my country back.

      I’m voting UKIP.

      Like

      • 274
        Exasperated with Dave says:

        In spite of his name., I’m with PW (Peewee for short is it?)

        I’m on a minimum pension – always hard to find work and to keep it as I have a handicap, so it was always hard to save – and I try to eke out a bit extra for which I NEED my car. If you live in the country where rents are cheap, you have NO CHOICE but to drive! FFS!!!! Already most of my income goes in indirect taxes, on fuel (gas bottles), petrol, and alcohol (my only vice is a visit to the pub).

        Of course I support marriage, but I made the responsible decision to have no children, my income being so in and out – and I’m damned if I’ll be taxed to pay for other people’s! When will politicians and the public realise that having kids is NOT a right- it’s an obligation, and a free choice, given we have access FREE birth control in this country?

        Driving is not a luxury, given the state of the public transport system and the cost of rail travel. Driving is an essential cog in the wheel of the economy, including – esp! – the leisure economy. How are rural restaurants and retailers, seaside towns, racecourses, NT/country houses, provincial art collections, B&Bs etc etc to survive if people (inc the retired) are no longer able to drive around?

        Like

  2. 2
    Willy Wanka says:

    Who can take a sunrise
    Sprinkle it in dew
    Cover it in Cadbury chocolate
    and a miracle or two?

    The Mandyman
    The Mandyman can
    The Mandyman can cause he mixes it with love and makes the world taste good

    Like

    • 24
      Cadbury Sale says:

      Brown Government = Brown Envelopes.
      Mandyman Business = Candy Sweeteners

      Like

    • 39

      Crap People {stoking up the money fire}

      See this eye so red
      Red like a junkie, burning bright
      Those who feel me near
      Pull the blinds and change their minds
      I’ve been so wrong.

      Still this pulsing night
      A plague I call my government
      Just be still with me
      Ya wouldn’t believe what I’ve been up to
      I’ve been so wrong
      Well I’ve been so wrong
      And I’ve been putting out fire
      with gasoline
      putting out fire
      with …. gasoline.

      Like

  3. 3
    Mr Ned says:

    As I have written many many many times, there is FOOK ALL DIFFERENCE between labour and the tories.

    Why should I vote for labour policies?

    The only way to vote for decent tory policies is to vote UKIP.

    Like

    • 14
      rocknrolla says:

      The nuts will come out to attack you for saying that. Cameron himself, labour-lite politician he is, would call you a fruitcake or closet racialist. Yet you’re right. A party that would lower spending and taxes, re-assert parliamentary sovereignty and stop immigration is something that so many people want to vote for. Indeed many people I know who vote Tory think they are voting for such policies – when pointed out to them that, by his ardently pro-EU policies, Cameron is in favour of unlimited immigration into the UK they are often visibly shocked.

      Like

      • 26
        Grumpy Old Man says:

        Lock out the neighbours, refuse to play with the kids next door and condemn the Nation to genteel poverty. Vote UKIP!!

        Like

        • 28
          Anonymous says:

          I’d rather genteel poverty than thuggish poverty.

          Like

          • Grumpy Old Man says:

            Good Point – as long as you’re not too poor to mend the roof and repair the fence to keep out the thugs.

            Like

          • UKIP have put out their welfare policy. It’s a bit wonky – I can’t see how flat taxes will make teenagers use condoms, they can’t have met many teenagers – but some of the other parts seem plausible.

            Like

          • Archer Karcher says:

            What a choice, has politics, sunk so low by consensus, reduced people into wishing for a choice between thuggish tyranny or genteel tyranny? Is that the only choice available?
            Of course not, get off your knees serfs, take back what is rightfully yours, the reward for your work is your own, not theirs.

            Like

          • GORDON McBUST(and his amazing magic cheque book) says:

            I’d rather genteel poverty
            than the impoverished getting paid More to do Fuck All
            than the working class being taxed out of existance !

            Like

          • @9:31

            WTF have government got to do with social policy? If teenagers don’t want to use condoms that is their problem. What do the libruls suggest should happen, that a government inspector be present at every knee trembler in an alley making sure that every dick has a latex covering? The page in the manifesto that says social policy should have just one sentence: it is nothing to do with us, do whatever you like.

            Like

    • 49
      Nick2 says:

      I’d pretty much resolved to vote UKIP, but was disconcerted by Farage’s attack on the veil. I’m not saying that he’s necessarily wrong (and Selma Yaqoob who debated the topic with him last Sunday was disingenuous at best) but it’s pretty low on my list of priorities.

      UKIP has highlighted how much the UK pays to the EU, and made lower tax rumblings (they revealed their welfare policy this week), but until they say how they intend to mend the economy, curb the public sector & roll back the surveillance state for starters I’m suspending my support for them.

      Like

      • 103
        Mr Ned says:

        “but until they say how they intend to mend the economy, curb the public sector & roll back the surveillance state for starters I’m suspending my support for them.”

        Mend the economy: Lower taxes on business. out of the EU we can set a framework that reduces red-tape and politically correct nonsense, (employers will be allowed to embloy the person best suited to the job, regardless of skin colour, gender, or a host of other box ticking criteria.) This will allow businesses to begin to compete internationally. Introduce tax breaks for exporters to encourage an export led financial boom. UKIP would turn the UK into the friend and trading partner of most every state in the world, but will not enter into subservient political entanglements with any.

        curb the public sector: Cut masses of un-necessary non-jobs and the target culture. With the famous climate realist, Lord Monckton as their climate change spokesperson, there will be no more “climate change co-ordinators” or other nonsense jobs. The state should defend, protect and serve the public. Jobs that harrass, track, monitor and control the public will be done away with. Let these pen pushers get a real job in the private sector, where they can be generating wealth instead of wasting it.

        Roll back the surveillance state: UKIP will scrap entirely the ID card scheme and will scrap the expensive, intrusive and un-necessary surveillance databases. They are opposed to “pay as you go” car taxes that will track all the public’s journeys (which labour and the tories are both committed to implementing as soon as either can get away with it)

        Additionally, UKIP are in favour of not only recognising democracy (as labour have utterly failed to do), but of extending it massively. With Swiss style referenda for important issues, the ability to sack MP’s and in extreme circumstances, to sack the Government too (if they were ever to go to war on a pack of lies, for example)

        No other British party is advocating giving power back to the sovereign people of this country, of treating us like adults and respecting us or our wishes.

        Like

        • 178
          MingeMunchersRus says:

          unrealistic policy balance with inexperienced leadership credentials with limited support structures makes ukip a wasted vote…torys this time but last chance saloon..if they f… up then the whole political system here will need
          very very radical change.

          Like

          • We aren in the last chance saloon now says:

            Baby P case offer said something similar about the case of Baby P

            Like

          • Max the Impaler says:

            No party could fuck up as badly as the present government.If UKIP did absolutely nothing, it would be better than this bunch of cretins.

            Like

          • Todger says:

            A vote for Ukip will not be wasted, it will make the other fukcers sit up and take notice. A vote for UKIP will have the great benefit over a vote for BNP by emphasising the wish by the electorate to move back to sensible policies rather than towards racist policies.

            A vote for either Labour or Conservative will be the wasted vote because you will simply indicate you are content with the status quo

            Like

          • Sam says:

            MMR is wrong and Todger is right: a vote for the party offering the greatest number of polices which most people want, cannot be a wasted vote! We need a new kind of politics NOW – and we need a parliament of MPs who are not stuck in the same old ways, and tarrd with the brush of corruption. We need to MPs who are not cowed by the Whips.

            A vote for more of the same old same old, with interchangeable Lab/Tory policies is a vote to be ruled by the EU in perpetuity, with no escape as there are no democratic means to escape. We cannot vote the Commission out of office! – and the EU parliament is a toothless paper tiger.

            A Lib/Lab/Con vote might even be a vote for war. it really IS that serious; almost every artificial federation in history has descended into war sooner or later as it implodes, and none has worked, even the most poweerful (the Soviet Union, which is the political model for the EU)

            Btw, your ideas and opinions would be taken more seriously, lads, if you could avoid the pathetic schoolboy smuttiness

            Like

        • 218
          Visiting Spaceman says:

          Can’t argue with much of this Mr Ned, but I wish them luck, they’re going to need an awful lot of people to get off their backsides to loosen the grip of the unholy trinity in Westminster.

          Even if miracles do happen after all, they will need real cast iron bottle to avoid being set up and extinguished by the vested interests of the new fascist order into which the country’s been sold by liblabcon.

          it would be nice if the last general election that will matter actually did bring in something other than 21st century feudalism

          Like

      • 114
        sockpuppet #4 says:

        I just googled that- I have seldom laughed as much.

        “France is seeking to push a ban into law and other countries are considering similar measures, Mr Farage said”

        Mr Farridge wants to do like the french do? I’m not sure even the French go much further than that in terms of statist intervention and ill thought out shite. (sihks get banned from wearing their funny hats too).

        UKIP: promoting french ideas.

        Like

        • 146
          Mr Ned says:

          “UKIP: promoting french ideas.”

          If it works, what is wrong with it?

          UKIP is NOT about ignoring the rest of the world, or burying their heads in the sand or isolating the UK at all.

          In fact UKIP looks to see what the best policies are in other countries and see what works.

          I think some people may be confusing UKIP’s refusal to be SUBSERVIENT to other countries for a policy of isolationism. UKIP is NOT isolationist, nor are they slaves to an intergrationist philosophy either. UKIP are independent internationalists, friends and trading partners with all, slaves to none!

          Like

          • sockpuppet #4 says:

            OK, so I fell for a stereotype but so what, thats what comedy gold is made of.

            The problem is its an idea from the worst sort of bearded 1968 intellecual left (I can almost smell the dust and feel the static from all that nylon). The British left couldn’t come up with something so daft, because they might have an instinct that if muslim wimmin (*) should be allowed to cover their faces up if they feel like it.

            But back to the real world: out of all the things you want to get the state to intervene in, is it one item of women’s clothing really the most important, or even worth doing?

            (* at this point someone heckles by raising a clenched fist and shouting “sisters”).

            Like

          • Watch the Skies! says:

            The soixante-neufards were mostly fantasising about cheap red wine and the hairy armpits of French women with low moral standards which would become avalable the moment we’d persuaded the people to sign us up to the EEC.

            Like

          • Samantha says:

            Liebore sockpuppett is clearly a man.

            Whatever makes you think Muslim women CHOOSE to hide themselves under all that horrible uncomfortable clobber, which makes them non-persons? When they have a choice, they don’t! – they are forced into it by their patriarchal religion – or rather the mysoginist men who run it. It’s NOT part of their religion, as the Sikh turban is – it’s a visible symbol of the fundamentalist Muslim repression of women, and it’s also fast becoming a symbol of their rejection of Western values; and as such has no place in British life (along with most symptoms of ‘multiculturalism’).

            Like

        • 160
          Sarkozy's gorgeous wife says:

          Well, many are a great deal better than ours.

          Like

          • sockpuppet #4 says:

            “Ours” being italian laws i presume?

            Assuming you’re not really Mrs.S- then what?
            I can’t think of ones that aren’t really lefty/statist/failiures of complexity, unless you like authoritarian and inefficient policing?

            Like

          • Old Nick Heavenly(real dimwit) says:

            Hey you do not want to copy the Frogs, they have terrible ideas.

            they have a Finance Minister that can actually count, 12345 etc.
            Jeez you do not need that in United Condom.

            They protect National Industries. Sarko would have told Kraft to FO long ago.

            They send back illegal immirgrants and want to stop the wimmin in black

            They ignore every directive that comes out of Brussels that does not suit them!

            Even the Luxembourgers, the most pro EU nation in the universe, do that.

            Like

          • Old Nick Heavenly(real dimwit) says:

            The great irony of Islam is that it opposses nearly everything That Mohammed did.

            He was the first in the west to give women rights, read the KORAN

            the job of all organised religions,ALL, is to destroy the work of thr Great Master of his time!

            Like

          • Dr Pangloss says:

            To the Dimwit below

            ‘Mohammed gave women rights’ — you ignorant pillock. You have no idea what old Mo did, do you? He certainly gave his nine year old bride rights, didn’t he. And his Joooish bride, the wife of the Jooish cheif Kinana – who had just murdered by burning alive, well he certainly gave her rights too, eh?

            Crack open a book, dimwit.

            Like

  4. 4
    Mr Ned says:

    Correct, well done, have a gold star.

    Like

  5. 6
    Anonymous says:

    millions of votes lost in one fell swoop

    Like

    • 18
      Anonymous says:

      make that a million and one

      Like

      • 21
        TheCourtOfPublicOpinion says:

        And two.
        Putting up the cost of motoring directly puts up the cost of goods on the high street, as if this fucking needed pointing out. Mind you, its understandable seeing as their shadow chancellor has never had a job at all.

        Like

        • 89
          Archer Karcher says:

          Raising energy prices hurts the weakest in society disproportionately hardest. I see that so far this year, there have been 13,000 more deaths than on average.
          Cold is a killer, yet the political elites imagine that “green” taxation, is somehow benign and beneficial.
          I suppose being insulated from the effects of their idiotic and dangerous laws, makes them so complacent, when imposing them on others.

          Dismal Dave is our only hope? God help us.

          Like

          • Gorden Boomenbust says:

            Hey!..But there will be nearly 2,800 deaths on the Road this year. This is why we need to tax the evil motorist more.

            Fact that 120,000 per annum die of smoking-related disease and puts the tiny number into perspective, that is irrelevant.

            Tax the evil motorist more because (s)he is an easy target.

            Like

          • Samantha says:

            Point excellently made. I’m really struggling this winter on my pension as the cost of heating my cottage has soared – and most of that is ‘green’ taxes to put in the pockets of the carbon traders like Ptachauri, Gore, the BLiars, and Obama (all miilionaries already)

            Give me strength! and string ‘em up!!

            Like

  6. 8

    Oh FFS, Dave.
    Will you PLEASE stop trying to copy NuLabour and just be a frigging conservative? Or at least step aside and give Hague the reins again…

    Like

  7. 9
    BBC says:

    Really, we’re over the moon, Cameron or Brown, nothing will change – green taxes, EU, immigration, more women MPs, less freedom for white males and ever more funding for the BBC… it’s all good plebs.

    Like

    • 209
      rick says:

      Some deluded Tories even cling to the belief that CMD will disband the BBC. You will see an increasing number of Dave’s mates getting lucrative positions within this corrupt organization.

      Like

      • 280
        Samantha says:

        Can’t pay, won;t pay. The only thing which will disband this corrupt propaganda machine is for more and more peoploe to refuse to pay the BBC tax on the grounds they are in breach of the neutrality clause of their Charter.

        Like

  8. 11
    jgm2 says:

    The idiocy is catching. Is there some kind of force-field of imbecility around Westminster?

    Do they inject new MPs with fucking stupid juice?

    We will tax motorists to pay for a married couples allowance.

    Great.
    It’s the economy stupid. Now that we’re in the economic shit nobody has time for this swooning around worrying about whether AGW is real or not. This is not doubly virtuous ie saving the environment and encouraging marriage. It is singularly fucking stupid.

    Nobody gives a shit about CO2. It’s made-up science.

    I

    Like

    • 25
      Animal says:

      Think I’ll sell my car. I work from home anyway. I work for peanuts so the Govt can’t tax me.

      Perhaps if more did the same and removed the sources of taxation from their lives then we may see some better solutions for getting this country out of the mess it’s in.

      Like

      • 35
        jgm2 says:

        Way ahead of you pal. Havent worked inalmost 10 years and no plans to get back into it either.

        Life really is too short to be busting a gut and then sending half of it off to the jackasses at Westminster to use to buy votes of people who only want to take more of your money.

        Fuck them to hell.

        Like

      • 223
        As economically inactive as possible says:

        ‘Remove sources of taxation from their lives’

        Brew your own! Grow your own! Forage!

        Like

    • 38
      Grumpy Old Man says:

      It’s not Science – it’s Marketing. All sizzle and no sausage, designed specifically to appeal to the Bright but Clueless by the “Progressive” Left as part of the Masterplan for unelected, unaccountable World Government. The EU is just a stepping stone on the way. Always remember, Progressive=Slavery.

      Like

    • 258
      Elephant never forgets says:

      Aren’t they all fed the gumpf by the same band of unelected civil servants who are insulated from all change and with little threat to their own safe future
      Perhaps this is where political nihilism starts from

      Like

  9. 12
    Anonymous says:

    Guido,

    Worth making some noise about green fuel taxes – the tax on petrol is already well above the Stern report’s worst-case estimate of what it should be. So what do we gain by adding more?

    Like

    • 102
      Archer Karcher says:

      Ah Lord Stern, formerly Mr. Stern of Brentford Nylons notoriety. The company that went bust every couple of years, leaving creditors whistling for the money they were owed.
      How does someone with such a track record become, firstly a Lord and secondly, an authoritative figure, on the frigging envirnment?

      Like

      • 120
        Grumpy Old Man says:

        Definition of a Lord. A man who is a bigger and better heartless b*stard than those around him.

        Like

      • 150
        Old Nick Heavenly(real dimwit) says:

        It aint what you know, it’s who you know!

        If you know too much then everybody is instantly terrified!

        Walls of silence, backs turned, stories circulate, false reputations grow!

        DROP OUT!

        Enjoy your life and do not give the bastards unneccesary taxes.

        Like

  10. 13
    Smash Labour says:

    All the Tories have to do is promise that homosexuals marriage is included, this will please the BBC.

    Oh and if the Tories can promise to reduce the legal age of buggery to 14 or even better 13 that will also please the BBC.

    Like

    • 33

      The BBC would like it to be compulsory for the over tens.

      Like

    • 50
      Grumpy Old Man says:

      Provided, of course, that same-sex formal relationships become eligible through the production of children.

      Like

      • 115
        Moley says:

        It is clearly wrong that same sex married couples cannot have children. This is blatant discrimination.

        From now on the Conservative Party will give each same sex married couple a virtual child of their own so that they do not feel left out.

        An additional tax break of 10% will be allowed because the virtual child will have no health or schooling needs and will thus save the Government money.

        Virtual children will correct any demographic irregularities and ensure that the number of indigenous English children is kept in balance with the numbers of children from immigrants.

        Vote Conservative; keep comedy alive.

        Like

        • 155
          Smash Labour says:

          Moley, this sound familiar?

          Reg What???
          Loretta It’s my right as a man.
          Judith Well why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
          Loretta I want to have babies.
          Reg You want to have babies?
          Loretta It’s every man’s right to have babies if he wants them.
          Reg But you can’t have babies.
          Loretta Don’t you oppress me.
          Reg I’m not oppressing you, Stan. You haven’t got a womb. Where’s the
          foetis going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?
          ——–[Loretta starts crying.]
          Judith Here. I’ve got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can’t actually have
          babies, not having a womb, which is nobody’s fault… not even the
          Roman’s, but that he can have the right to have babies.
          ——–[This seems to satisfy him.]
          Francis Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to
          have babies, brother. Sister, sorry.

          Like

        • 165
          Mr Ned says:

          “From now on the Conservative Party will give each same sex married couple a virtual child of their own so that they do not feel left out.”

          Yup, they will have social services steal the children of normal, heterosexual middle class white, married couples based on any made up bollocks from a social worker, paediatrician or case worker and use the secrecy of the family courts to steal that child and give it to a gay, inter-racial couple. All the better if they are part of a paedophile network.

          What? is the above unbelievable? It is already being trialled in some areas!!!

          Like

          • Mr Ned says:

            Meanwhile, social services and the police will repeatedly ignore signs and reports of children who are systematically being tortured to death.

            Like

          • Smash Labour says:

            Of course coz the torturing is done by the sort of people that vote Liebour. Look Liebour voters are the salt of the Earth and if from time to time they butcher a few kids, so what? Bliar and his bummer mates Mandy and Mong butchered thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s Liebour, it’s what they do.

            Like

          • Doomonger says:

            ‘just getting on with the job’

            Like

          • Thats News says:

            Labour have given all our gold away and burnt all our mnoney.

            No matter who takes over at the next election, tax rises (The Gordon Brown Legacy) will be required.

            Like

          • Max the Impaler says:

            Tax rates will go up..but REVENUE will go down.The TVA in France is 19.5% and the restaurant and bar business is in crisis.Try taking a taxi, or hiring labour,its all in a financial death spiral.Non-believers in the Laffer curve are going to have the theory seriously tested.

            Like

        • 182
          Ex Presiding Obama Beach says:

          The Nu Conservative policy for homos is called cloning…

          We will subsidize the cloning of homos so that they multiply…

          That is the way we will increase their number and of course their relevance to humanity…

          Like

  11. 15
    robert peston's speech therapist says:

    As Norman Tebbit said on the Daily Politics this week, ‘green’ taxes are designed to modify behavior; if successful the tax take will fall. Are the Tories desperate to commit electoral suicide before becoming the government? We need to be freed from the yoke of new liebour socialism as soon as possible, this is not the way to do it.

    Like

    • 169
      Mr Ned says:

      I keep saying that they do not want to win it.

      Like

      • 230
        Max the Impaler says:

        171,I have an awful suspicion that you are correct.Let’s face it ,the Mong has presided over financial armageddon.Would you want to clear it up?With regard to this new proposal re-motorists and fuel(green) taxes, If I were the FD at Cadbury and looked at the tax take on fuel alone for their transport fleet, I’d be getting the redudancy notices printed.Politicians…as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.

        Like

      • 261
        It's an honest mistake says:

        The real truth is that the Tories are no different to Labour. They operate the same agenda.

        Like

    • 184
      Ex Presiding Obama Beach says:

      I can see tha hand of Zac Goldsmith in all of this…

      The Tories must prove they are Green…

      SO expect any idocy from the Tories now…

      Especially since we are entering a 20 year cycle of global cooling…

      Like

  12. 17
    ian e says:

    I hear ,admittedly on the Toady programme, that Osborne said the Telegraph has got it wrong in this respect. Let’s hope he was telling the truth.

    [Of course he is an MP so how much chance is there on the latter?]

    Like

    • 59
      Nick2 says:

      Heard the interview, Osborne seemed to sleepwalk through it. All I now recall is that he’d already set out his policies many times before on BBC TV programs (this was R4) and that he’d done nothing wrong by over-claiming his expenses. Yawn.

      Like

    • 187
      Paul Volcker says:

      Sach Osborne before he becoming an even greater embarassment…

      Appoint the Chairman of HSBC are Shadow Chancellor…

      At least he managed to run a major international throughout the Crash without a penny of government money…

      Shows it can be done if a banker is half way intelligent

      And does not resort to fraud like Goldman Sachs and the other “sell the people shit and short it” merchants…

      Like

  13. 19
    Sir William Waad says:

    Let’s say it again. It’s not taxes that are the problem, it’s spending. If Government cannot control its spending, no level of taxation will be sufficient, only the rich will be able to lead a comfortable life and economic growth will be hobbled. It’s time for Governments to grow up and start behaving lkike financial adults.

    Like

    • 48
      jgm2 says:

      It really is that simple.

      I talk to mums at the school gate who are having to cut back on life’s little luxuries. No skiing holiday this February for example. But when pressed they know that they’ve been behaving like kids for the past decade. New cars, private school, new kitchen and all on the never-never.

      So they’re taking steps to manage their budget.

      They’re finally behaving like adults.

      But not this fucking government.

      Fuck no.

      It’s as if they know they’re going to be declared bank**upt as soon as they have their next meeting with their bankmanager so they’re just blitzing away as much cash as they can before that happens.

      Utterly reckless.

      Like

      • 63
        Grumpy Old Man says:

        ++Loud Applause++. However, further down the scale it’s a choice between the electricity meter or lunch. And whatever you do, don’t get sick.

        Like

        • 93
          jgm2 says:

          Is it though? Is it really a choice between electricity meter and lunch? Because I grew up dirt poor.

          Two-up, two-down, outside toilet, no central heating and this is the 1960’s and 1970’s I’m talking about. In the UK. And I was cold in our house. Fucking cold. And if I complained about the cold my parents would tell me to put another jumper on. They had a point.

          If you wanted to be warm you had to huddle around an open fire in one of the rooms. But I was never hungry. My mum cooked fresh meals every fucking day. They tasted like shit – not because the ingredients were poor but because she was a rubbish cook. Irish. Old school. Boil all vegetables till they are white. Cook all meat till it is black.

          My parents didn’t drink. They didn’t smoke and when I left home at 18 I can put my hand on my heart and say they never, not once, went out to a restaurant for a meal and neither did we.

          In short, they lived within their means. They did not piss away money they didn’t have for a lifestyle they couldn’t afford. That has stayed with me. I have always lived within my means.

          This entire economic clusterfuck has been caused by a government and a population that has no fucking clue of the concept ‘living within your means’.

          It’s time they learned.

          Like

        • 129
          jgm2 says:

          Is it though? Is it really a choice between electricity meter and lunch? Because I grew up dirt poor.

          Two-up, two-down, outside toilet, no central heating and this is the 1960’s and 1970’s I’m talking about. In the UK. And I was cold in our house. Fucking cold. And if I complained about the cold my parents would tell me to put another jumper on. They had a point.

          If you wanted to be warm you had to huddle around an open fire in one of the rooms. But I was never hungry. My mum cooked fresh meals every fucking day. They tasted like shit – not because the ingredients were poor but because she was a rubbish cook. Irish. Old school. Boil all vegetables till they are white. Cook all meat till it is black.

          My parents didn’t dr*nk. They didn’t smoke and when I left home at 18 I can put my hand on my heart and say they never, not once, went out to a restaurant for a meal and neither did we.

          In short, they lived within their means. They did not piss away money they didn’t have for a lifestyle they couldn’t afford. That has stayed with me. I have always lived within my means.

          This entire economic clusterfuck has been caused by a government and a population that has no fucking clue of the concept ‘living within your means’.

          It’s time they learned.

          Like

          • montysjohn says:

            that were luxury

            Like

          • jgm2 says:

            Tell that to the kids today and they don’t believe you.

            Like

          • Old Nick Heavenly(real dimwit) says:

            Waste not, want not.

            cut your coat according to your cloth.

            cook from raw ingredients

            Is it such a shock that poor and simple people in poor and simple countries are actually much happier than people who have everything and know the value of nothing!

            And they share willingly, they help each other. They survive as a community, not every man for himself and fuck my neighbour.

            Like

          • Susie says:

            How I agree with you jgm2.

            Listening to McFuckwit’s w/e speech aimed at the middle classes… bigger cars, more foreign holidays, bigger houses — news for him: the middle classes are downsizing like mad to afford school fees, the university tuition fees, trying to provide their kids with the education they won’t get from the state — either that, or they’re selling up and emigrating.

            Like

        • 240
          jgm2 says:

          Patrick?

          Like

        • 242
          Anonymous says:

          No it won’t be your choice. Once ‘smart’ meters have been installed (at your expense, natch), then these will be used to control your electricity consumption for you. You don’t suppose meters smart enough to read their own dials and send the reading back to the energy cartel are not smart enough to understand being told to go to sleep for a bit while someone else has a dose of electricity? Buon appetito.

          Like

      • 226
        Anonymous says:

        Nothing wrong with new cars, jgm2, but a new car on the fucking mortgage, like the fruit of my loins did; Jesus wept.

        Like

    • 86
      The Laird says:

      A voice for common sense!

      The Boy George needs to step aside. And if Dave can’t grasp that he should step aside too.

      The medicine needs to be taken by everyone … oh’ I have an idea there are 5 million fishermen in the UK, tax them to fund new quangos and to mend the potholes.

      Like

      • 177
        The Laird says:

        UPDATE: I have just heard Boy George on the Today program … fighting off the flack of the blatantly biased BBC … and he says they have no such pland for taxing motorists. The story apparently came from a Shadow minister, however it does not appear that it has been attributed to anyone.

        Maybe we can expect a lot more of this “sourced from New Labour” gossip in the coming months.

        Like

        • 232
          Talwin says:

          Just the same with the BBC news-tart interviewing Hague this morning about the Iraq enquiry. Forget Blair, Brown, Straw, Hoon, Campbell and the fucking lying, dissembling rest of the bastard Labour GOVERMENT. But, instead, why didn’t the Tories do this, why didn’t they say that, why didn’t they ask the other? Give me strength!

          The BBC have given up even trying to look impartial.

          Like

          • Samantha says:

            They gave that up many years ago. They were like that when Thatcher was in power, worse when Major took over, totally pro-NewLabour when Hague and his successors were trying to hold the party together, and since 1997 they have made no effort to hide their bias. Blair appointed several Labour party memebers to positions of power int he BBC. Many senior people in the current affairs dept are Labour members, and/or married to same (cf Kirsty Wark and Andrew Marr).

            DON’T PAY THE LICENCE – and tell them why you won’t

            Like

  14. 20
    Road_Hog says:

    Cameron is doing his best to get a hung parliament or get Labour a 4th term.

    Like

    • 80
      Snotsicle says:

      Hung parliament probably not such a bad thing. A coalition would be unlikely to last for anywhere near a full parliamentary term and would give the Tories an opportunity to rid themselves of “Dave”, his oik sidekick and their ridiculous green/pro-EU policies in favour of proper Conservatism.
      Once they’d achieved that they’d likely recover the votes that they’d hemmorhaged to UKIP and stand a chance of achieving a working majority.

      Like

      • 249
        Watch the Skies! says:

        …and if my grandmother had a pair of balls, she’d have been my grandfather.

        If you enjoy running these sort of ‘what if?’ scenarios, I suggest you sit down with Robert Harris’ ‘Fatherland’ and see how it is done.

        Like

  15. 23
    Gordon Out says:

    Most Government spending is a zero sum-game Guido. There is only ever one-cake to slice. the trouble is that this Government, Brown and Brown’s Balls have introduced a “minus-sum game”. We are all unwilling participants in this new game and my grandson or granddaughter, yet to be born as my son is just ten years old, will enter the game and join us in becoming total losers.

    Like

  16. 27
    Trinny says:

    It’s time to stop this ridiculous game of “we will pay for this by taxing this” or “we will pay for this by cutting this”. The whole system is so shot to pieces that the only way is to stop and start again.

    Like

  17. 30
    Jason says:

    I’m married, have got kids. Do I want this tax break? no!

    Understand the idea, but I would rather them cut government costs, lower the debt, create wealth and then drop the taxes so I can decide what to do with my money.

    This shuffling of tax from a tax break here to an extra tax there does nothing but increase the need to someone to manage it i.e. bigger government i.e. more tax required.

    Like

  18. 31

    A system that enables Mr. Choudhary to claim quite legitimately the equivalent of £ 31k a year in benefits, all the while being far too busy for gainful employment as a result of his agitprop must be full to the gunwhales of similar people.

    1. Require full and independent six monthly audits on anyone receiving more than £ 20k per year in handouts

    2. insititute a workfare programme for anyone on benefits for more than a year.

    I bet gross benefit claims would reduce by 30% or more, and possibly as much as 50%.

    Like

    • 37
      Sir William Waad says:

      We should unify income tax, national insurance, tax credits and welfare benefits into a single system, so that there are only three relevant questions for everybody: (1) What is your income? (2) How many dependents do you have? (3) Are you genuinely prepared to work? Based on the answers. you either give that person some money or take some away.

      Like

      • 43
        next slide please, d-day says:

        Good proposal.

        Like

      • 57
        Anonymous says:

        Oh ffs most of those who have to claim have no bloody choice! banks won’t take “honest I’m looking for work gov” to settle a debt but will take you’re house and then you lot will have to fund all the social housing needed and then the massive rise in street crime, the only jobs being created are in the public sector which you lot hate/have to pay for anyway.
        Ps just to remind you lot, not one penny of you’re taxes has been returned because a man claiming too much was caught .

        Like

        • 68
          Nick2 says:

          Ps just to remind you lot, not one penny of you’re taxes has been returned because a man claiming too much was caught .

          Not sure the last sentence is true. Wasn’t Abu Hamza caught (over) claiming legal aid despite having ~£250,000 undeclared property? I seem to recall that the Legal Aid fund got their pound of flesh!

          Like

        • 92
          Grumpy Old Man says:

          One of the problems is that your lot have signally failed to build sufficient social housing to cope with unrestricted immigration,thereby artificially inflating house prices and creating the credit and debt bubble that Salvatore Mundi was so proud of until it all started in america.

          Furthermore, I’m not sure that my lot wish to fund a massive rise in street crime. Neither do my lot wish to pay tax to cover the cost of non-jobs in the private sector (which actually cost more than benefits) because your lot have trashed the wealth-producing private sector.

          Like

        • 121

          “most of those who have to claim have no bloody choice”

          Mainly because claiming pays better than Tesco’s. that should stop.

          “not one penny of you’re taxes has been returned because a man claiming too much was caught”

          Agreed, which is why I described it as “a system that enables Mr. Choudhary to claim quite legitimately”

          That should stop too. Simply because something is legal doesn’t make it right, moral, or sensible.

          Like

        • 139
          BROWNED OFF says:

          Its your taxes not ‘you’re taxes’.

          Like

        • 267
          Elephant never forgets says:

          Probably all the saving went on the catching them

          Like

      • 269
        Elephant never forgets says:

        Or at least remove the Upper Earning limit for NI something like getting an extra 10% on all income over £700 per week. wouldn’t need bankers bonus tax

        Like

    • 148
      Anonymous says:

      Could just cap total benefits ( only exeption someone at the top end of the disability scale – e.g bedridden – weelchair bound )

      Like

      • 201

        Hopeless. You’d simply have people like Karen Matthews, Choudhary et al tooling about in wheelchairs the whole time having deliberately snipped their own tendons, or more likely their sprogs tendons. India is a prime example of what would happen, with the frequent deliberate maiming of people’s own children for the purposes of begging.

        Like

  19. 32
    Downing Tweet says:

    no10: The PM has just dropped in on Marriotts School in Stevenage to visit a pupil who wrote to him about school facilities.

    Like

    • 156
      genghiz the kahn says:

      has that Hunt brown ever had a full crb check?

      when in trouble he eiether goes to ground or sets up a human shield of school kids.

      bet noone asked him about if itwas true that he witheld body armour or failed to finf cash for wars in iraq, or was geoff just making things up?

      peraps he could have spoken to kids about how to mismanage a budget.

      Like

      • 208
        Pole Star says:

        It’s eduction – it’s Balls!

        Holding his hand!

        Come with me Gordon – you’ll be OK – I’ll look after you!

        Crikey !!!

        Like

    • 235
      Talwin says:

      Expect the school to be struck by a meteorite or lightning in the near future.

      Like

  20. 34
    Call me Loser Dave says:

    Just what is wrong with Dave? Why is he going all out to lose the election?

    Like

    • 41
      Sir William Waad says:

      Like I always say, none of these boss-class arts graduates have a Scooby-Doo about tax policy.

      Like

    • 47
      SAW says:

      Increasingly looking like a hung parliament with huge amounts of votes going to UKIP and the Bnats who people do not like to admit to be voting for to pollsters.

      Think either major party will struggle to top a third of the electorate in support.

      Like

  21. 36
    SAW says:

    Zac Goldsmith seems down to earth kind of chap who has the ear of the average joe bloggs.

    After school, he traveled with the International Honors Program, affiliated with his uncle, Edward Goldsmith, through New Zealand, Mexico, Hungary, Italy, Thailand, and worked in the United States and India. Goldsmith lived in California for two years, working first for an organization called Redefining Progress from 1995 to 1996 and later as a researcher for Helena Norberg-Hodge’s International Society for Ecology and Culture (ISEC) during 1996-98. While working with ISEC, Goldsmith traveled to India. He spent a short time on an ashram in Rajasthan and lived in Ladakh for six months, studying traditional cultures and helping run a tourist education program.He continues to serve as ISEC’s associate director.

    Redefining fucking progress? Ashrams in fucking India? Tourist ‘education’

    Which party is this guy standing for again?

    Like

    • 53
      jgm2 says:

      It reads like a latter-day Lord Byron’s grand tour doesn’t it?

      Like

    • 60
      Zac the Global traveller says:

      No wonder he supports Carbon trading when he has a size 13 carbon footprint

      Like

      • 117
        Archer Karcher says:

        “Redefining fucking progress? Ashrams in fucking India? Tourist ‘education’

        Which party is this guy standing for again?”

        I dont know, it is unrecognisable to me.

        Like

        • 125
          jgm2 says:

          I would have thought from your ‘Atlas Shruged’ quotes you might also have read ‘The Fountainhead’. If you had then you’d recognise the stereotype.

          Like

    • 283
      Sam says:

      I can understand putting him up for the Richmond seat as the Tories are fighting the Liberals (who often taken it). Zac will appeal to a large part of the electorate there and will ensure the Tory vote is maximised. It;s a swing seat and Zac grew upm there so he’s also a local.

      But to have him pouring his nonsense into Dave’s ear, non-stop , regarding public policy on the environment – that’s another kettle of fish

      Like

  22. 40
    next slide please, d-day says:

    Osborne – Fuck Off. I’m married and want my married man’s allowance back and I want my MIRAS back. You can keep the communist child tax credit. Don’t even think about putting ‘green’ taxes on fuel because a) they have no effect other than to fuck over hard working people who have no choice but to commute, b) global warming has fuck all to do with CO2 and c) I drive past your Cheshire pad nearly every day and I’ll shit on your drive.

    Like

    • 71
      jgm2 says:

      Disagree with you about MIRAS. House prices are already insanely high. Why would we want to encourage ‘em to go even higher and trap people with massive mortgages for even longer?

      What we need is much lower house prices and then folk would have far more disposable income to do the fun stuff in life. Instead of which they have insane mortgages to pay for their ticky-tacky boxes and, because they’ve spent all their money on their mortgage they then go and borrow a shed-load more to try and cheer themselves up with a new car. Or a Jimmy-fucking-Choo handbag.

      The cause of this economic clusterfuck is millions of people borrowing bazillions of pounds to buy over-priced houses and then using the over-priced valuation to justify borrowing even more for new (foreign) cars, new (foreign) Plasma TVs and new (foreign) holidays.

      For fuck’s sake. Get a grip. Stop borrowing so much fucking money for so much fucking shit. And that goes double for that imbecile Gordon Brown.

      Like

  23. 42

    I really don’t get the Conservatives at the moment, and that’s spoken as someone who has always been one. Do they not want to win the next election? They are just appearing, to me, as another version of Labour, which is an appalling prospect. With their recent announcements about more powers for the police (just what they need, not) this DISGUSTING tax on motorists. STOP PICKING ON THE FECKING MOTORISTS!!! I drove 300+ miles yesterday on the M1 and M25 and all I saw was those godforsaken average speed cameras and variable speed limit cameras, spying on me – I pay tax to be monitored?

    I’m rapidly approaching the opinion that the entire system of government is wrong.

    Like

    • 62
      sockpuppet #4 says:

      I’m repeating a theme of the above – but why do you rekon they’d be different?

      Oh, and Variable speed cameras are supposed to (and seemingly do) make the traffic flow better. Aren’t they rather simple GATSO’s on the M25, so don’t record anything normally.

      Like

      • 105
        Grumpy Old Man says:

        Good Point. Variable speed controls do an excellent job on those drivers who think with their gonads, so you don’t have white-knuckled lorry drivers doing 4-mile-long overtaking manoevres and buggering up the flow of faster traffic.

        Like

        • 199
          sockpuppet #4 says:

          shucks, you encourage me to spout further.
          The 50mph limit is supposed to be there to protect the chaps working on the motorway. Its also better to drive at 50mph than be stuck in a queue caused by an accidents.

          And I’ll admit it: I don’t do 50mph when theres gatsos or just a signpost telling me to.

          Like

    • 84
      Big Bruv Britain says:

      It is not good. I too feel as if our every movement is now being monitored by the government. It is also the case that the traffic master system does scan the whole number plate even though only a few digits are used to get data to measure the traffic flow. The police, authorities and security services do have access to your movements on all motorways, dual carriageways and A roads.

      Like

      • 123
        Archer Karcher says:

        “The police, authorities and security services do have access to your movements on all motorways, dual carriageways and A roads.”

        The system is being built so that when the roads are privatised, those lovely bankers and their corporate buddies, can charge you for every inch you you travel on their property.

        Like

  24. 45
    Sarah Tweet says:

    enjoyed lunch with over 200 women looking at health and wellbeing for all of us

    Like

  25. 50
    TheCourtOfPublicOpinion says:

    I blame the LibDems.
    Having seen that theres really not much between liebour and the cons I looked again at the LibDems, and likened by findings to a trifle.

    They start off with a big plus by NOT being liebour/con – thats like finding it in a huge punch bowl. Yummy.

    Their tax policy looks great – 10k starting threshold, nice move – thats like lots of cream on top.

    They voted against the war – hey its got lots of sherry in it!

    Health, education all to be funded by 1p tax rises – I can handle that, and this is like finding your favourite sponge cake.

    Hey this is looking great – where do I sign up? Oh but one last thing, lets check their policy on Europe…. Oh my GOD! There’s a huge turd right in the middle! FFS, they want to give away more than the other two combined. Man, that is a different kind of stupid. Without that, they’d walk it.

    Like

  26. 52
    Todger says:

    And another thing, remember the really rich have a big carbon footprint whilst the really poor have a tiny one.

    Enlarge YOUR carbon footprint and join the rich club.

    A fucking huge carbon footprint and a vote for UKIP will make you stand out from the crowd

    Like

  27. 54
    Mr George Osborne says:

    Mr Osborne described claims in the Daily Telegraph that the Conservatives would increase road tax to pay for tax breaks for married couples as “bizarre”, saying “it bears no reality to our thinking in this area”.

    He insisted, “We are not planning, as I think that newspaper report suggests, to jack- up road taxes”.

    http://page.politicshome.com/uk/article/5023/osborne_pulls_back_from_committing_tories_to_bank_break_up_.html

    Like

    • 119
      Just who are the Shadow Cabinet? says:

      “We are not planning, as I think that newspaper report suggests, to jack- up road taxes”.

      “..as i THINK that newspaper suggests…” you mean the twat is commenting without having checked the details.

      Seriously they are a bunch of amateurs. And we want them to run the country? We are mad, they are mad.

      Like

      • 136
        Archer Karcher says:

        Most do not, however they get in by default because ZaNuLa are so woefully shite and dishonest.
        Not much of a choice granted and not much to look forward to, but they will get the gig.
        I only hope that the smaller parties and independents make breakthroughs and form a basis, to rid us of the rotten gang of three, forever.

        Like

    • 149
      Dan says:

      “We are not planning, as I think that newspaper report suggests, to jack- up road taxes”

      But nothing said about redefining road taxes….Maybe the tories are thinking about a combined green marriage + car tax!

      Get hitched and walk to work – pay less car tax. Or even better – a pooled carbon credit for getting hitched that you use to by car tax credits.

      Of course, if you’re not married, you’ll pay a bit more car tax….As there’s no actual societal benefit to you driving around. You dirty little carbon spewer.

      Of course, the individual decision we make with, by far, the biggest impact on carbon dioxide emmissions is whether or not we have kids. Taking the lunacy of the AGW agenda to its natural and logical conclusion – a proper green tax would be a one off charge of £50,000 to parents for each child they bring into the world.

      It might be mad, but at least it would be consistent. May also help resolve some of those “Broken britain” issues Dave keeps banging on about.

      Like

      • 284
        Sam says:

        If it’s not true than I hope they put some effort into finding out where the dirty tricks are coming from! It’s essential for the sake of the voters (esp the more dimwitted ones) that we don’t get swamped by disinformation in the run-up to this election

        The Tories must also come down hard on whichever journalist/s propagated this rumour if it is false – did YOU check it with the Tory Central Office, Guido? Some readers pf this blog don;t read the comments…

        Like

  28. 55
    MUNGLE says:

    Green taxes! green taxes! CMD a word of advice, avoid “green taxes” nothing is more likely to get peoples backs up just now. It’s been exposed as a scam dont use it as an excuse to tax us more FFS!!

    Like

  29. 66

    Here’s a thought – give us our marriage allowances back, or transferrable tax allowances – and if you need to “pay for this”, as opposed to just spending money and borrowing, fucking cut elsehwere. Dumb fucks. FUCKING CUT!

    SLASH BURN SLASH BURN SLASH BURN

    Not hard is it? Let’s see if we can get benefits down to a level where dolescum alcoholics can’t afford to give their children vodka and porn dvds shall we? That seems reasonable.

    Like

  30. 69
    Anonymous says:

    Well so this is just a Daily Telegraph story, cool I thought it sounded like sh%t from the start, still the beeb will run all week on this green tax tale!. lazy Mr flakes very lazy.

    Like

  31. 70
    NotaSheep says:

    I am looking for a real free-market, libertarian, un eco-brainwashed conservative party; anyone know where I can find one, because the UK Conservative party doesn’t fit the brief?

    Like

    • 94
      Il Duce says:

      I’m with you but I fear we will be searching for some time. Time for a new party perhaps and let the Stasi duo Brown and Cameron merge into one.

      Like

  32. 72
    HDB111 says:

    Guido catch up Osbourne denied it on Radio 4

    Like

  33. 74
    SME says:

    I am not a Labour Troll but I am writing this in the vain hope some real Tory may read it.

    I am 44 and have always voted Tory, Spelmans performance on QT last night means that I will not vote in the general election

    As a single male business owner I am already responsible for maternity pay, paternity pay, flexible working hours hours for families, I have no call for schooling and all the other costs incurred with having kids and when I die I have no zero band IHT break and any pension will dies with me

    I RESENT yes really RESENT posh troughers like Spelman imposing MORE TAX on me to GIVE to FAMILIES

    Like

    • 75
      SME says:

      oh yes – I forgot – If I make the wrong marriage choice, I would probably lose half my assets

      Like

      • 83
        Have as much totty as you like says:

        Moral here is don’t get married, all the benefits and little downside in cohabitation.

        My 18th birthday present to my son will be a free 1 hour session with a top notch divorce lawyer.

        Like

        • 270
          Watch the Skies! says:

          Probably less of a danger to his morals than the traditional gift of an hour with a topnotch hooker.

          Like

        • 288
          Sam says:

          Thanks to recent laws you can lose half your assets just from living with someone these days, and not for very long either. It’s a disgrace. I know several people who have lost half their capital to women (and in two cases men) who probalby just moved in to get their hands on the assets. The world has gone mad.

          Like

    • 90
      Call me whinging Spelman says:

      Can’t stand the woman. Her husband must have cloth ears.

      The only person who made any sense on QT was that Richard chap off the Telly.

      Like

    • 100
      sockpuppet #4 says:

      Its a rule of politics. see the expression “hard working families”
      The word “family” makes all sorts of people, inc. single old ladies feel nice and fuzzy inside.

      Single bloke aged 44? Some folks will already be sharpening their pitchforks you know.

      Like

  34. 77
    City Lad says:

    Call Me Cast Iron Guarantee Dave has now totally lost the plot.

    The muppets at CCHQ must be sitting there dumbfounded this morning wondering what pills he and his unknown shadow cabinet are sharing with the one eyed Scottish Idiot.

    God help us all.

    UKIP is going to do rather well I suspect in the Tory shires and BNP rather better in the forgotten parts of the UK.

    Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas Camerhoon

    Like

  35. 78
    The Beast of Clerkenwell says:

    Does Zac need the married persons allowance?
    Maybe a “I only fuck my cousins” allowance could be high on the list of future legislation

    Like

  36. 81
    Red in the Bed says:

    Cameron is a communist

    Like

  37. 97
    President of Kenya says:

    Any news on regulation of UK Bankers, Gay Fawker?

    Like

  38. 98
    Lil Olmey says:

    The Cameroons really are determined to lose the next election.
    Bloody traitors.

    Like

  39. 99
    Agent 99 says:

    Oh Dear

    Gordon will be disappointed as we are leading the world out of recession arn’t we including Spain (which is in the G20 coz I said so!)

    Retail sales rose by 0.3% in November and December, says Office of National Statistics

    http://page.politicshome.com/uk/article/5025/retail_sales_rose_by_03_in_november_and_december_says_office_of_national_statistics.html

    Like

    • 116
      GORDON McBUST(and his amazing magic cheque book) says:

      WoW thats a whopping rise in the busiest period of the retail year
      Mr McBust would say But “in real terms” it’s a 76% rise “on what you would get if the tories were in power !
      Now wheres my Drugs ?

      Like

    • 154
      Moley says:

      Correct for inflation and that is a fall in real terms.

      Like

  40. 101
    Call me Turquoise Dave says:

    Blue and Green make Turquoise

    Like

  41. 106
    Yellow_Tooth says:

    If they just enforced anti-kerb crawling and kerb parking don’t you think that would be positive for marriage?

    Like

  42. 108
    Gonk says:

    Oi Dave,
    Be sensible, not confused.
    Follow straight, unambiguous and truthful policies.
    You don’t have to appeal to wrong headed and
    committed twats. Now listen to me Dave.
    You’re starting to fuck things up. Be good.
    Tell Osborne.

    Like

  43. 110
    the shade of dr kelly says:

    so who fed this story to the telegraph then?

    possibly someone from labour dirty tricks department?

    perhaps it was just one of the many labour 5th columnists who seem to work at that rag now?

    i see they have got that bastion of sense and impartiality, the labout MP martin salter, writing on their blog pages now.

    Like

  44. 111
    Mongo Brown says:

    I am living in a New Labour Nightmare

    Tony Blair has had a face transplant

    Like

  45. 113
    Four-eyed English Genius says:

    One can only assume that Boy Dave has had a sneaky peeky at the books and decided that there is no way he wants to deal with the crock of crap that whomsoever it may concern inherits from the Gurning Loon!

    Like

    • 128
      Whos Who says:

      Then he should move on and let someone who cares about our Country take stock of what needs to be done.

      Kitchens/heat ring any bells?

      He’s only in politics as he’s a wealthy young man, intelliegent with little to do and wants the cachet and power. It will look good in his Burkes Peerage entry one day so his heirs can marvel at their forebear’s success.

      Like

  46. 122
    GWAE says:

    Fraud costs the UK economy £30bn a year

    http://www.newstatesman.com/2010/01/fraud-figure-previous

    Fraud costs the British economy £30bn every year, a report has revealed. The figure, which is more than twice previous estimates, equates to £621 per adult.

    The majority of fraud, 58%, took place against the public sector, the National Fraud Authority (NFA) said in its first Annual Fraud Indicator report.

    Amost a third of fraud (31%) is committed against companies and the remaining 12% is against members of the public, the report says. The highest sector was losses from tax fraud – estimated at £15.2bn – although this was only 3% of tax liabilities, the NFA said.

    Dr Bernard Herdan, chief executive of the NFA said the figure was the most reliable estimate to date………………..

    Like

    • 244
      The big D says:

      That pales to insignificance compared with the fraudulent sums the government take from us.

      If we are paying all this tax for joined up government, a prosecution under the trade description act may be in order.

      Like

  47. 124
    Irene says:

    The Tories told the Telegraph last night that the story was wrong – but they went ahead and printed it anyway – shoddy journo IMO particularly the misleading headline.

    Like

    • 133
      Lord Tebbit says:

      The Torygraph relaise the Conservative Party today are not Tories.

      We need real Tories in Parliament. Not a bunch of wet nursed amateurs still thinking they’re in the JCR.

      Good, let’s hope this shakes up the our Opposition a bit and they come out fighting. On second thoughts it’s unlikely.

      Like

    • 141
      It's all Balls says:

      Doesn’t surprise me. The Telegraph have really got it in for Dave and Osborne.

      They have Mary Riddell once a week praising Brown and Heffer each weekend slagging Dave and promoting the birch and workshops as sensible true blue policies.

      So the right wing and left wing elements on the paper seem to be united by a common enemy.

      Like

  48. 126
    Cato Street Conspirator says:

    Surely the funniest news today was hearing the government warning about how much fraud is costing every man, woman and child in this country – issued by Lady Scotland! It goes without saying, of course, that Lady Scotland acted completely innocently in her dealings with her cleaner.

    Like

    • 134
      jgm2 says:

      Fraud costing 30bn a year apparently. Unlike idiocy which is costing us 200bn quid a year.

      Finally we can put a price on stupidity.

      Stupidity costs seven times as much as fraud.

      It would be cheaper to throw the prisons gates open and jailing the fucking teachers for their failure to get the most basic maths and budgetting skills into the skull of the UK’s population and their politicians.

      Like

    • 135
      Clive of India says:

      It isn’t funny – it is tragic.

      Do you not all see how low we have sunk?

      Like

  49. 132
    GWAE says:

    Brown to appear at Chilcot inquiry before election

    http://www.newstatesman.com/2010/01/prime-minister-election-iraq

    Gordon Brown will give evidence to the Chilcot inquiry before the general election on his role in the Iraq war, it emerged last night. In the past week the prime minister has come under pressure from Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg and others to appear before the election, which must be held by June.

    A spokesman for the inquiry confirmed that Sir John Chilcot had written to Brown on Thursday, saying the panel would be “happy to offer him the opportunity” to appear before the election and that it planned to make the letter public on Friday morning.

    At prime minister’s questions on Wednesday, Clegg accused Brown of hiding from the inquiry and argued that voters could not make a full judgment on his leadership without knowing what his role in the war had been………………….

    Like

    • 167
      Anonymous says:

      There is a get out clause. If Gordon calls an election then the Chilcot Inquisition will be suspended until after the election.

      Like

  50. 138
    • 152
      TheCourtOfPublicOpinion says:

      This looks great!

      Line 1: Vote for me and there will be no return to boom and bust
      Line 2: That’s a cast iron guarantee
      Logo 1: We’re
      Logo 2: no
      Logo 3: different
      Tagline: Once a con, always a con. Same as liebour really.

      Like

  51. 142
    DisgustedOfMitcham2 says:

    I enjoyed hearing Balls earlier this week talking about marriage, and saying that he doesn’t think it’s right that it’s recognised through the tax system.

    Do you think he knows how inheritance tax works? Fucking hypocrite.

    Like

  52. 144
    Marcus Aurelius says:

    How about getting back our rebate from the corrupt EU to fund anything for which the British public mandate the next government?

    Bertter still how about not paying anything ever again to the EU? What ever is the point when we already pay to the World Trade Organization (allegedly) to keep foreign markets open to us.

    Go on Cast Iron Dave, give us an answer. How about it? Or will your lad Osborne have to square it with your real bosses, the Rothschilds and fellow travellers in the New World Order?

    Heir to Blair indeed!

    Bring back Billy Hague, at least he was a Conservative.

    Like

  53. 145
    Trev says:

    So why not put your update at the top and then point out that all that follows is a load of bollocks. Or given that the whole premise of your post is based on lies – why not withdraw it and save all the nut jobs from bursting a blood vessel.

    If you and others are going to fall for every lie or rumour about tory tax plans then you are in for a busy time.

    The problem the tories have is that labours debt reduction plans are based on the optimistic tax returns from optimistic growth projections. The reality is that on taking charge of the treasury they will find a far less sanguine assessment. But do not expect the BBC etc to highlight this.

    ‘policies that kick start the economy’ involve major spending cuts to free up tac cuts. Not easy to sell in an election.

    The reality is that significant spending cuts are going to be necessary since we have a big structural deficit and the cyclical deficit needs to be reversed before the next downturn.

    The public are going to have to vote for some nasty medicine and your bland remidy Mr Fawkes is hardly going to cut the mustard.

    Like

    • 151
      jgm2 says:

      The reality is that on taking charge of the treasury they will find a far less sanguine assessment. But do not expect the BBC etc to highlight this.

      The BBC will be highlighting it 24/7 once the Tories are in power. It will all be

      ‘Tory government presides over biggest downgrade in budget projections in history’.

      ‘Tory government makes larger cuts than expected’

      It certainly won’t be

      ‘Labour government: true extent of cover-up revealed by Tories’

      Like

  54. 152
    Where is the real Tory Party? says:

    The Telegraph Headline is

    Motorists and air passengers face higher “green taxes” under Conservative plans to fund tax breaks for married couples, The Daily Telegraph can disclose

    Mr George Osborne said

    “We are not planning, as I think that newspaper report suggests, to jack- up road taxes”

    So that means He is planning to Jack up air taxes to fund his marriage tax breaks

    Like

  55. 159
    George Osborne says:

    I don’t do “cast iron guarantees”

    Like

  56. 164
    Sir William Waad says:

    I can’t understand why we still use the word ‘motorists’. It suggests a hobby involving one of those new-fangled ‘motors’. Mr Toad was a motorist. Please call us ‘drivers’ or, better, ‘people’, although ‘sows’ might feel more accurate, when we all have so many greedy little mouths to feed.

    Like

  57. 170
    Border Terrier says:

    What is the connection between Zac Goldsmith and marriage?

    Me neither.

    Good people of Richmond, do not elect this louche … chap [Mandy euphemism]

    Like

  58. 171
    Anonymous says:

    FFS – how can a “Green Tax” be a green tax – unless the revenue is spent on summat for the “Green” religion? Or are we now gonna be told that cars have to be taxed more, not to stop polar bears from dying, but to stop polar bears from not marrying!

    Like

  59. 176
    Keep it in the family says:

    You know how sarah brown keeps banging on about David Tennant and David Tennant keeps banging on about Labour?

    No prizes for guessing what this is a picture of.

    http://www.daylife.com/photo/097y9T9clid91?

    Like

  60. 179
    Chloe Madeley says:

    I’m not a spoilt lazy rich bitch. And I shall get my Daddy to sue you if you say I am.

    Like

  61. 181
    Proposing green taxes is easy but try getting them accepted by voters says:

    It’s time all parties realised that there are firstly very little votes in “green policies” and even less on taxing the motorist even more whilst they already pay higher than elsewhere “fuel duty” and VAT on petrol;high road taxes and have the so called “Safety Camera” con which in most cases is merely a means for local councils to raise even more taxation on motorists.

    In addition politicians with a metropolitan mindset and that incudes Call me Dave & Co should realise that outside London and Major Cities the public transport system is totally inadequate and in most cases stops running after 9pm Sunday’s and 10pm weekdays and Saturdays !!

    Like

  62. 183
    Mongo Brown says:

    Spelman is not new Labour spin or BBC bias, she is Blue Labour

    Like

  63. 185
    Richard Madeley says:

    I met Cherie Blair at a party once. I must say that she is one of the most devastatingly attractive women I’ve ever met in my life. I honestly mean that.

    Like

    • 237
      Thats News says:

      I interviewed her for a local paper. The amount of young male students who wanted to be photographed with her was amazing. I looked at her and thought: “Cameras do not do you justrice, do they?”

      In reality, she’s not a bad looker. Morally a bit dodgy, however…

      Like

  64. 186
    We Can't Go On Like This says:

    Link to a do it yourself Dave poster creator

    http://www.andybarefoot.com/politics/cameron.php

    Like

  65. 188
    Dodgy Dave says:

    ‘Vote blue, turn red’. What’s the point these benefit scroungers. How about some meaty policies, Dave? At least Barry Omaha’s talking about bank reform.

    Like

  66. 193
    Capt Con O'Sullivan says:

    Its amazing really that the Tories repeatedly get their sums wrong in the run up to elections and end up running around in circles.

    Anyone recall the spectacular Oliver Letwin being stuffed away in a safe-house by Tory HQ during the last election campaign (or one before?) because the media suddenly realised he seemed a bit uncertain of the difference between a million and a billion?

    The best bit was I seem to recall Letwin being brought back to advise L’il Georgie in order to shore up the Conservative Treasury opposition last year … a bit like asking Jeffrey Archer being asked to provide advice on etiquette to Amy Winehouse.

    Fun times ahead. Hope the Tories still have a safe-house available. Probably do because of the old negative equity trap.

    Like

  67. 194
    Smash Labour says:

    If you look at the typical green leftie they are usually

    Gay
    Into boys
    BBC lovers
    Terrorist sympathisers
    Jew haters
    Anti capitalist
    Anti American

    Why does Cameron think no matter how green he is that scum will vote for him?

    Like

  68. 195
    Not long until Labour gone says:

    “Labour MP Harry Cohen must apologise to MPs over second home claim, watchdog says”

    Time to rob a bank and then apologise if caught…think i’ll get away with it too?

    Like

  69. 197
    Gordonout says:

    UK has run out of cash FFS.

    Wake up and smell the coffee. The rich won’t pay, the poor can’t pay – so middle England, batten down the hatches for five/ten years of no/slow growth, higher inflation and interest rates.

    And get used to that and the the Green taxes will be piled on Big Time.

    Get me a one-way ticket outta here.

    Like

  70. 198
    Doomonger says:

    taxes don’t change direction just scope…if u smoke drive or drink..you’re still going to be fucked

    Like

  71. 206
    I Hate new Labour says:

    Remember the congestion charge?

    Supposed to cut emissions? So why is traffic in London now back to the pre-charge levels.

    I’ll tell you: green taxes don’t work. When will the f*ckwit politicians stop treating us like fools and call a tax a tax?

    Like

    • 260
      Can't help but shout at the TV when Gordo's on says:

      I heard that the admin/technical costs of implementing “The Charge” completely aborb any money they make from fining, sorry, I mean ‘charging’ the motorist.

      Like

      • 286
        Lord Carrington's binoculars says:

        C-Charge/ Fuck me, I led the blog assault on that shite….

        Made a short TV film for the BBC opposing it and met the technical boss Derek Turner. He told me it wouldn’t work, but Livingslim wouldn’t listen. The system nearly collapsed and Turner resigned after six weeks. Capita had to be bribed with £75m not to flick the switches and walk off.

        The admin costs spiralled to the extent that it was only in profit thanks to substantial fines doled out. I worked out it cost £4.75 per car per day to administer the scheme when the charge was £5.

        I wrote a letter the FT pointing this out. They rang me up and said we’d like to run the letter, but we want to see your working. They published the letter, much to the consternation of TFL.

        And the traffic speeds? Oh yes, after the traffic was reduced by the C-Charge, Livingstone embarked on a programme of removing road space and blocking certain junctions. The upshot was that we’re worse off than we were in 2000.

        Like

      • 287
        Lord Carrington's binoculars says:

        Oh yeah, and green taxes don’t work because they are designed to change behaviour.

        The upshot is that if they work, you don’t raise any money.

        That cock Livingstone and the witch from the Green party are always banging on about the £25 per day C-charge for ‘gas guzzlers’ that Boris dropped (he didn’t, Porsche won a court case). They reckon it would have raised £50m per year.

        Yeah, right. People are really going to pay £25 a day for the rest of time to drive in central London.

        Porsche actually launched a 911 that was 1g/km of Co2 under the 225g/km C-Charge limit. And the new big Jaguar saloon is good for 184g/km.

        So it seems that manufacturers took Livingstone at his word and made more fuel efficient limos.

        I mean, it was fuel economy that Livingstone was worried about, wasn’t it? I mean, it was intended to be a green tax…

        Like

  72. 214
    oldfella says:

    This sort of fuck up by the tories is continuing to play into the ‘they’re all the same’ mentality held by a large proportion of the population. It also highlights a flakeyness in the opposition that does not play well when all around has been bombed by new labour.

    I increasingly fear for what will happen as so many are disenfranchised by all the current parties with a system designed to guarantee one of them will be elected ANYWAY!

    This is not democracy. Gordon leaking (again) that he will attend the lardy chilcott farce before the election is yet another part of the disdain the political classes have for the population. They are in a very powerful position as we all get fed up to the backteeth with the lying thieving scum that they are.

    Like

  73. 216
    diplomacyrules says:

    still thrashing out their one policy then?

    Like

  74. 219
    allan akhbar says:

    i dont know whether this story is true.but..it seems that our politicians are so used to stealing other peoples money that they have forgotten that for most of us we have to EARN it!!!!!!!!!!

    tax,tax,tax..how imaginative!

    the country is fucked because we have lost nearly all manufacturing and the banks conjure up fiat money……….

    all nicely aided by government!!!!!!!!!!
    perhaps this is because those in power have never really had proper jobs and are still trapped in a bubble ?

    we need less government and less tax………….more personal responsibility..

    stop spending OUR money on propaganda projects…….stop trying to buy our way into the EU-which most do not want.

    stop fighting wars which we also didn’t want.
    stop taxes on jobs………
    stop taxes on savings………..

    stop buying votes with civil service non-jobs
    stop immigration.

    Like

  75. 221
    Anonymous says:

    No, it’s not good. The Telegraph is claiming that the Conservatives are now eyeing up air travel for a tax grab, just as the current Government has with its significant rise in Air Passenger Duty, a tax dubbed “green” but which Government has admitted is just a revenue raiser. Aviation is the only mass public transport mode subject to such a tax (and before people respond, buses and rail pay receive big discounts on fuel taxes and their tickets are not subject to VAT either).

    George Osborne dropped his Green Skies plan for a flight tax because there was no evidence that it would make any difference to aviation’s environmental impact. Now they are at it again, trying to find a softer target than motorists

    Like

  76. 222
    Helpful says:

    If they want to increase tax revenue they need to increase the tax base ie., the number of entities that pay tax: secondly they need to reduce the number of welfare dependents.
    Following from that instead of encouraging companies and individuals to relocate from the UK for tax purposes they to need encourage the reverse.
    1. In short order get rid of CGT it raises almost no money and is complicated to report, collect and administer. A lot of money held offshore (legitimately) would relocate to the UK. This would save compliance costs with HMRC and the tax payer.
    2. Increase the personal allowance substantially to maybe £10,000/£12,000 (by all means limit it to basic rate relief)
    3. Get rid of NIC for staff aged under 25 (they can still get 40 years in with older retirement ages) again would reduce compliance costs

    4. Put VAT up to 20%.
    5. Get rid of the exemptions on VAT.

    Like

    • 262
      Can't help but shout at the TV when Gordo's on says:

      ..Yes, but I’m still in favour of taking a chainsaw to the levels of spending.

      “Essential Services” should be tautological. (If a service isn’t essential, why the hell is it there?)

      Like

      • 276
        Helpful says:

        The issue they have is that “taking a chainsaw to public spending” will be the soft option compared to what they will need to do if they don’t maintain and widen the tax base. Prior to the downturn 40% of Corporation Tax was from Financial Services companies. That level of revenue has gone and won’t be coming back any time soon. Raising rates is not going to get them the revenue to maintain public spending anywhere near the current levels. Taking a chainsaw to public expenditure will not affect the total spend on welfare payouts; the only way to get that figure down is get them off welfare and into work of some kind. TB recognised this prior to 1997: he said that they would be able to get people off welfare and into work or training and so reduce public waste. Well it didn’t happen, they need to be priced into work and off welfare, the way to do that is to increase the personal allowance and get rid of NICs for lower earners. Also they need to price people out of the black economy and into the tax paying economy. Indirect taxes are hard to avoid even footballers and gangsters pay VAT.

        Like

  77. 224
    DisgustedOfMitcham2 says:

    If 1.8 million people signed a petition against taxes on driving, what would they rather pay tax on instead? The government is bust, and it’s going to have to put up taxes one way or another. It seems better to tax things like driving which are mostly discretionary and which harm the environment than just putting up income tax again.

    Like

    • 265
      Can't help but shout at the TV when Gordo's on says:

      True, but I think the idioms, “Necessity is the mother of invention” and “Waste not want not,” should apply when it comes to spending this amount of other peoples’ money.

      ‘Non-jobs = gone…’

      Would be a great place to start.

      Like

  78. 228
    Smash Labour says:

    So let’s get this right, a Liebour scumbag gets caught troughing 60K but he doesn’t actually have to pay a penny back, just not take any more money!!!

    On the BBC they thought he’d be harshly treated (Radio 5)

    Like

  79. 251
    Wankersrthey says:

    The great unwashed elected this shower of squit … Blair and his henchmen squat on them as a thank you and Brown f….ed the economy from the outset.
    He is now trying to tell us he wants to help the middle classes… who in reality will have to accept taxes and all the other remedial actions necessary just to get back to square one…even after ’18 years of Tory rule’ nothing could have worked out worse than this pile of wankers. Sad manipulating lying bastards to the last.

    Like

  80. 253
    Sun Tzu says:

    The Tories should:

    Cut fuel duty to stimulate the UK economy, and improve exports.

    Make it law that invoices are paid in 30 days to speed up circulation of money.

    Just these two things would be a massive boost to the UK economy, and would work through the system in a matter of weeks.

    Like

    • 256
      Elephant never forgets says:

      the UK needs some more home industry rather than just imports
      Can’t even keep open a manufacturing plant for green energy equipment manufacturing

      Like

    • 275
      Exasperated with Dave says:

      Quite correct, and they should also take an axe to the huge Quangocracy, and make membership of any Quangos which remain a matter of public service – ie minimal expesnes and NO pay.

      They should also take an axe to the PR culture – why should we pay taxes for the salaries of those who lie to us? – let alone their inflated pensions. And axe the target culture, and all who administer it. There is massive waste in the bureaucracy – that should be the first ‘saving’ Dave makes – just look at the public sector jobs pages in the Guardian every day! The publixc payroll (both Govt and local) must be pared down to the absolute minimum, as a priority

      Only people who live and work in London and rarely go outside it (unless on trips for which expenses are reclaimable) could come up with such daft schemes. Damn professional politicians!

      If Dave wants to stop some people driving he can start by raising the driving age to about 25 unless essentiaol for the driver’s work – the young are quite able to manaqge on public transport, much more likely to be living in cities where they don’t need a car, and are responsible for by far the greatest proportion of accidents,

      Like

  81. 272
    Goatlove Collective UK says:

    But we -love- our kids!

    Like

  82. 273
    Chris Wood says:

    Time to vote for UKIP, methinks.

    Like


Seen Elsewhere

What We Learned From the Referendum | FT
Scottish Crisis Moves South | Nick Wood
English Democrats Accidentally Celebrate Yes Victory | Pink News
Union In Its Current Form is Dead | Janan Ganesh
Labour Could Be Split in Two | Sun
Ashcroft Poll: Why Scotland Voted No | Buzzfeed
Boris: Change Barnett Formula | Sun
Cameron is Back | Dan Hodges
What Happens Now | James Kirkup
Cairo of the North | Quentin Letts
Labour are the Biggest Losers | Phil Collins


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