November 5th, 2009

Dan’s New Plan ‘B’

Dan Hannan isn’t doing interviews currently because he wants to take some of the heat out of the Lisbon issue and make sure that hostile media can’t spin things into a Dan versus Cam story.   He still maintains more cordial than you might expect relations with David Cameron.  As he says in his post-ratification blog post:

I shall continue to campaign for a referendum on the EU and, in the mean time, for the election of a Cameron-led government.

He will not be doing an Enoch and telling people to vote for any party other than the Conservative Party – tough luck UKIP.  Informed sources say that he is planning to set up an infrastructure to support a long-term campaign not just for a referendum, but for a decentralised style of government from local level to the supra-national level.

This isn’t a short-term campaign and he accepts that this may require him embarking on a Keith Joseph style long march politically. He aims to make the case for localist ideas that will separate the referendum issue from Little England thinking and frame it as a question of democratic legitimacy. His aim, he says, is to build a broad movement within the Conservative Party that will push for referendums, citizens’ initiatives and the rest of the paraphernalia of direct democracy.  In The Plan Hannan and Carswell outlined how technological advances, the internet in particular, makes direct democracy feasible.   Hannan and Carswell really do get it that the internet can change how we do politics...


443 Comments

  1. 1
    NewsLion says:

    I think Daniel has fundamentally sound ideas and my big regret is that we wont see more of his ideas sooner

    http://newslion.blogspot.com/

    Like

    • 8
      Anonymous says:

      You are wrong.

      He is just a small-minded, xenophobic little-Englander bigot.

      Like

      • 10
        jgm2 says:

        You are wrong. You are an imbecile. Like Brown.

        Like

        • 21
          Anonymous says:

          Great comeback, but I’m not a Labour voter.

          Hannan is just a puppet of Murdoch and US interests.

          He has no vision, and has been shown up as such over the last couple of days.

          Labour for a fourth term if the right-wing don’t get their heads together fast.

          Like

          • righty right wing (mrs) says:

            You again.

            Sod off Euro Fascist.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            “Euro fascist”

            At least I won’t vote for the Nazis because I can’t stand foreigners.

            Small-minded, 19th century.

            Hope you enjoy your descent into oblivion, irrelevance, and minority bashing.

            Like

          • anonymouse says:

            You have no arguments which is why you insult.

            Typical euro bully.

            it worked on the irish – it wont work on us and eventually you will be exiled to your nazi eu forever – like all anti voting ballot box traitors.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            “it worked on the Irish?”

            So when they vote yes in a referendum, someone has worked them over.

            Nice insult to the Irish there.

            If we have a referendum and we vote to pull out of the EU, Rupert Murdoch, the Yanks and the Israelis will have worked us over too.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            “Great comeback, but I’m not a Labour voter.

            He has no vision, and has been shown up as such over the last couple of days.”

            of course you’re a labour voter.
            Rules of engagement for them are always deny you are and accuse your opponents of your own faults, especially when it makes no sense.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            I have been eligible to vote since late 1997, and have never voted for Labour in any election – local, national, or European.

            For people who don’t like being told what to do by foreigners, Murdoch has managed to do quite well.

            Like

          • Australian says:

            Anonymong:

            “I have been eligible to vote since late 1997…”

            In that case, you are far too young to have any sensible experience or opinions to offer on matters of importance. Keep quite and listen to your elders and betters.

            Like

          • Master Baiter says:

            Kanga

            Roo

            Like

          • RobC says:

            Pull the other one its got bells on it

            Like

          • Jan says:

            Anonymous 3.34.Yes the Irish were worked over.They voted NO first time around.Second time they were promised money and jobs.All the Irish parties and RTE (their BBC) told them that if they didn’t vote YES they would be cast aside and there would be grave consequences for the future.Lots of EU officials visited Ireland prior to the vote.The Irish didn’t stand a chance. I know, I live in Ireland.

            Like

          • Hard-Lazing Voter says:

            He’s not Labour, he’s a Limp Dick. Only way anyone can be as stupid.

            Like

        • 35
          jgm2 says:

          Who said youy were a Labour voter? I just said you were an imbecile. Like Brown.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Judging by the last couple of days, I’d take Brown over Cameron, Farage or Nick Griffin thanks.

            Like

          • Charles Flaccidwidger says:

            You’re a twat then.

            Like

          • jgm2 says:

            Judging by the last couple of days, I’d take Brown over Cameron, Farage or Nick Griffin

            As I said. An imbecile.

            Like

          • UK Fred says:

            I would take Brown over Cameron, Farage or Clegg, too. But i’d take him for what Huxley described as an epsilon semi-moron, although I’m not too sure about the semi.

            Like

          • Sting's Beard says:

            Ireland may have voted Yes second time around but the only county that really mattered i.e Co.Donegal voted no!! So put that up yer peace pipe

            Like

      • 31
        McGroom says:

        Anoymous 8 is probably Masterbaiter, Inquistor or Fred (as he has recently posted) and is just another New Labour apologist blog troll working out of the bunker.

        It would be nice if these Liebore wormtongues engaged in defending Gordon record instead of the Mandelson/Millibrain and Balls mantra of lying about everyobody else so they forget how rubbish they have been.

        Come MB, tell it like it really is

        Like

        • 38
          Anonymous says:

          I’m not MB, and I’m not a Labour voter either.

          I would vote Tory, but not if they’ll spunk away our membership of the EU.

          Like

          • Nick Shortarsy says:

            Make yourself up a silly name then.

            Like

          • righty right wing (mrs) says:

            * Fascism

            * National Socialism

            * Communism

            * Socialism

            All European. All anti democratic. All anti self determination of free peoples & the nation state

            And your beloved EU will prove to be a bigger threat to peace on the continent than all of the above put together

            Out of the four above, which would you more closely identify with – you sound like a ultra right wing “Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer” fascist to me

            Which is it?

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Righty Right Wing.

            Master of comedy.

            Calling others fascist while lining up to vote for Nick Griffin.

            Comic.

            Like

          • Jonathan says:

            So, you must work for the EU then? How much do they pay you for spouting this drivel?

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Yes that’s right.

            I disagree with you about the EU.

            QED I work for the EU.

            No wonder all the talent is leaving the UK, and you’re going to vote in the Nazi party.

            Not a brain cell between you.

            Like

          • resurgemus says:

            funnnily enough if you are representative of the “talent” that’s leaving I would expect the country’s average IQ to increase.

            Like

        • 191
          Fred says:

          Well he isn’t me. I’m proudly xenophobic. Xenophobia is a fear of different cultures, which could include extreme Islam, Nazism, and Marxism. It is like arachnaphobia which is perfectly rational if the spider in question is deadly poisonous.

          Like

      • 36
        anon says:

        aren’t you being judgemental & xenophobic yourself – or does fascism not count when you do it?

        Like

        • 94
          Anonymous says:

          Being judgemental is not being fascist.

          Voting for the BNP is, so good luck with that one Britain.

          Worked wonders for Germany in the 1930s.

          Only problem is – this time, after the Americans put you back in your place, they won’t spend hundreds of billions of dollars rebuilding your economy. Because they view you as another Iceland.

          Special relationship my arse.

          Like

          • Sue Tzuzir says:

            You are Jim Royle and I claim my £ 5.00

            Like

          • Fred says:

            Hi, Baiter here, see how I cunningly post as anon etc blah blah

            Fred is another one.

            Is it sad to be a bargain basement Goebbels for Gordon?

            Hey thats catchy, Goebebels for Gordon!

            Like

          • righty right wing (mrs) says:

            Voting BNP? Me?

            You are a new Labour troll here obviously.

            National Socialism – I could never vote for any kind of socialism.

            Its evil – like your Labour Party’s third way “socialism”.

            Like you anti democracy traitors.

            Euro hoon.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            He used to be called

            Dirty Europoean Socialist?

            Like

      • 74
        Pride_Watch says:

        F.O.you Hoon!

        Like

      • 125
        Sue Tzuzir says:

        Read “The Plan” first then see if he’s a xenophobic little englander you knob.

        Like

        • 132
          Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

          If he wasn’t he’d wish to reform the EU, he doesn’t he wants to pull out because he can’t take sharing power with foreigners.

          Like

          • Sue Tzuzir says:

            I’ll have to read it again then cause I didn’t see the bit about sharing a shower with foreigners.

            Like

          • EUBanana says:

            Name calling, juvenile eurofanatic twats like you certainly increase my eurosceptic resolve!

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Should we share power over our country with China? At the end of the day those in Europe are just as foriegn as the Chinese, they just happen to be closer.

            Like

      • 346
        Minekiller says:

        Ah…a EuroRacist. Lovely.

        Like

      • 416
        Hello Harriet says:

        I used to like Daniel – particularly after the way he spoke to McBroon in the European Parliament, but now I think he is just a shit head.

        Like

      • 440
        Popeye says:

        Prat!

        Like

    • 11
      Anonymous says:

      Fastest way to get Dan’s plan into action is to vote Labour, a massive Labour majority after the next election must surely lead to armed insurrection and a complete revolution in British politics.

      Like

      • 16
        jgm2 says:

        A ALbour majority will lead to total economic meltdown, the army recalled from Afghanistan to assist the police in maintaining order and to deal with food rioters and Brown going completely Mugabe.

        Like

      • 28
        Anonymous says:

        Yes revolution after a democratic election.

        Nice talk.

        Go back to your Empire fantasies you nutjob

        Like

        • 102
          obangobang says:

          “Nutjob” is a dead giveaway.

          You are Sunny Hindall and I claim my £5.00

          Like

          • Mango says:

            I’m praying for 5 more years of Labour.

            Total destruction of the economy and complete social meltdown will path the way for our very own General Pinochet.

            I can’t for the day it comes, Master Baiters lined up against walls and shot by the thousands. Labour hoons and Eurofantics exiled to France, oh the joy! Vote Labour!

            Like

      • 425
        Hard-Lazing Voter says:

        I’d settle for a coup and the Labour Government’s swift hanging off the edge of Tower Bridge as a warning to the rest of Europe’s smug socialists.

        Like

    • 13
      upon a star says:

      I wish he was the Tory leader. But while Dave is, then I have to vote UKIP, it is the only way I can express my hatred of an undemocratic superstate.

      Like

      • 45
        Anonymous says:

        But UKIP don’t want to break up the United Kingdom either.

        Like

        • 56
          Nick Shortarsy says:

          Its Mr. Swimming Trunks isnt it?

          Bonjour.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Salut,

            C’est juste très triste de voir la Grande-Bretagne, si importante en Europe, se couper du reste de l’UE et disparaître des écrans radar. En faisant ce qu’ils font au Parlement européen, ils ont amoindri l’influence du Royaume-Uni.

            Like

          • resurgemus says:

            Alors mon petit branleur, quand les francais geulent on sait bien ils s’inquietent. On a peut-etre du mal a comprendre que le grand projet Europe n’avancera plus. Tous les europeens s’en foutent.

            Like

          • Nick Shortarsy says:

            No denial to being Mr. trunks-allowed-in-the-piscine then.

            “C’est juste très triste” isn’t correct french by the way. What are you trying to say- “its fair sad”. Are you Lancastrian-scottish by any chance?

            Like

          • Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

            Isn’t correct French?

            Tell that to Le Monde and their quote of Lellouche…I’m sure you’re right though.

            Like

          • Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

            Lectured in French by a euro-hating bnp nutjob.

            The irony gets better by the minute on Guido’s site.

            Even Guido must be getting a bit embarrassed at all the loons he attracts here.

            Like

          • The correct term is “window licker”. (C) Dolly (Deceased)

            Like

          • Ewanme says:

            Hallo , darlin xxxx .

            Tonite is your nite . I really hope you got somethin planned wot is better than you managed thousands of years ago ;-)

            I know you’re justa middle-aged , fat , baldin ex-druggie but we are soooo relyin on you to stick a barrel of somethin under their arses an blow the whole fuckin bunch of shitters skywards , honey x .

            If you ain’t gonna do it , then I might have to .

            Much love E xxx .

            Like

          • Master Baiter says:

            I have no more poo to eat, better scoff something quick.

            BTW do you like my Ewanme?

            That is all.

            Like

          • thick as thieves says:

            the correct term is “ungrateful c’unt”.
            I come here and boost your stats yet you have the fucking brass neck to use that term against the great thick as thieves.
            I am not some poxy window licker you cheeky bastard: I am a genius and first class propagandist.
            you are an old man now, and your brain does not work as quickly as mine, but don’t get jealous Guido, after all, you and your site benefits from my vast intellectual contributions.
            window licker?
            cheeky fucker.

            Like

          • thick as thieves says:

            yes ACO you are a window licker.
            you finally figured it out.
            well done!

            Like

          • Sir William Waad says:

            Sorry, I kept reading it as ‘widow licker’, but you won’t have met my cousin Aphex.

            Like

          • Josef Fritzl says:

            Come to Daddy

            Like

          • Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

            And by the way it means “it’s just very sad to watch Great Britain, so important in Europe, cut away from the rest of the EU and off the radar. By doing what they have done in the European parliament, they have diminished the influence of the UK”.

            And he’s right.

            Like

          • resurgemus says:

            No he isn’t.

            Like

          • Nick Shortarsy says:

            You are just being silly Mr. Trunks, where on earth do you get the idea that I support the BNP, or for that matter Europhobic. I might be slightly nutty in bothering to converse with you.

            So you just pasted something from LeMonde to make yourself look good?
            I did wonder where you’d got such a strange word as “amoindri” from.

            I’ll actually say it again: its very odd french, and its been translated (badly) from what he said, in English to the guardian.

            Like

          • Mongrel says:

            He doesn’t mean it at all – he’s just a lying French politician. When you see Sarkozy and Merkel agreeing to a united front on all sorts of issues, you know that the last thing they want is an influential UK. So we have the choice of failing to influence the EU, paying £20+ billion a year, and abiding by their rules, or just failing to influence the EU.

            Like

          • Nick Shortarsy says:

            You are just being silly Mr. Trunks, where on earth do you get the idea that I support the party that gets me moderated, or for that matter Europhobic. I might be slightly nutty in bothering to converse with you.

            So you just pasted something from LeMonde to make yourself look good?
            I did wonder where you’d got such a strange word as “amoindri” from.

            I’ll actually say it again: its very odd french, and its been translated (badly) from what he said, in English to the guardian.

            Like

          • Costa del Dole says:

            VTFF

            Like

          • Hard-Lazing Voter says:

            We already have no influence, you rimmer.

            Like

      • 315
        gordonsaysbyebye says:

        Vote UKIP if you like. As long as it’s in a Labour safe seat.

        Like

      • 353
        The Doctor says:

        k te joden sr anonymous, eres un imbecil, un gi-li-pollas extra grande. Ceder el lugar, cateto, y todos quedamos en paz.

        Like

      • 418
        Hello Harriet says:

        And a completely wasted vote ‘upon a star’ – nice one!

        Like

    • 79
      Mr Ned says:

      ” Hannan and Carswell really do get it that the internet can change how we do politics…”

      Yeah, the people who pay the hackers the most will win the elections.

      Either that or the software that the voting is conducted on will be compiled proprietary patented and copywrited to prevent us ever seeing exactly HOW our votes are counted, making electoral fraud an absolute doddle.

      Just ask diebold!

      Electronic voting will be the END of democracy entirely!

      Like

      • 322
        gordonsaysbyebye says:

        Won’t work Can’t work population 60 million Votes cast 80 mllion.
        Could find out where all those illegals are hiding though.

        Like

        • 366
          UK Fred says:

          That already happens with Labour members taking postal votes for people in Birmingham, doesn’t it?

          Like

          • Down with Master Baiter! says:

            One eyed Gordon lording it over his Banana Republic -bloody brilliant! Well at least all the Muslims will vote for Gordon the Gonad, so the next election is in the bag isn’t it – we are outnumbered after all! OH, DON’T FORGET – IGNORE THAT SHIT HEAD MASTER BAITER AND THEN HE’LL JUST BE TALKING TO HIMSELF [INSTEAD OUT OF HIS ARSEHOLE AS USUAL]!

            Like

    • 424
      One Who Knows.... says:

      He and Helmer and a few others are also working towards a putsch against Kirkhope and installing Van Orden as leader of the Delegation. Watch this Space.

      Like

  2. 2
    jgm2 says:

    The trouble with relying on the internet for direct democracy (presumably e-voting) is that, as a link on here in the last couple of days showed, that is even more prone to rigging than postal ballots.

    Like

    • 5

      Nonsense JGM2.
      Why the internet is as secure as hotlittlebots4u.ru.com_sendusyourgold/org a bank.

      Like

    • 339
      Minekiller says:

      Surely the point of ZanuLabia in intorducing postal voting was precisely so they could rig elections. Isn’t that obvious? Or are we pretneding to be all nice and British sporting types still?

      Like

      • 393
        gov stats says:

        you forgot the boundary reorganisations, massively increased public sector created by Brown and all now being paid for by printed money..

        Like

        • 417
          Moriarty says:

          ..and also the news that councils might not count the votes overnight next election but leave it until the morning, as the Labour vote has fallen so much they’ll need more time to stuff the ballot boxes.

          Like

  3. 3
    I B Seldom_Lucid says:

    Not only can but necessarily will.

    Politics has changed irrevocably over the last year due, not only to the internet and this blog, but also due to the unintended consequences of freedom of information.

    Only the spoilt little prima donnas in the Westminster bubble are finding it hard to understand.

    Like

  4. 4
    righty right wing (mrs) says:

    “setting something up to look at this long term”.

    Long grass time.

    What bought Dan off?

    This sham unity of the Tories is just that – a sham – & a shame for all of us.

    Remember this – when DC loses key marginals because he split his own vote between himself & UKIP he will only have himself to blame for being such a weak fop.

    God how I detest weakness in a so called leader – particularly when it is a Tory one.

    Like

    • 17
      Anonymous says:

      Labour.

      Laughing all the way to a fourth term, because the Tories cannot learn to love Johnny Foreigner.

      Oh well, there’s always the Empire. Oh, hang on….it’s gone.

      Oh well, there’s always our industrial base. Oh, hang on it’s gone.

      Oh well, there’s always our financial services industry. Oh, hang on it’s hotfooting it to Zurich.

      Oh well, there’s always our sober, highly-educated young population.

      Oh hang on, they’re all out getting pissed and urinating on memorials, and watching X Factor.

      Face it, UK. You have two choices:

      * A meaningful future in the EU
      * Descent into fascism and chaos outside the EU. It’s happening already – allegedly intelligent people prepared to vote for a Nazi. It’s 1930s Germany all over again.

      Like

      • 23
        righty right wing (mrs) says:

        You again.

        Sod off Euro Facsist.

        Like

      • 33
        jgm2 says:

        If the UK is in such a poor state (and I don’t disagree with you – it is utterly fucked) then do you expect me to believe that the French and Germans are going to carry us on their shoulders for eternity?

        The UK is fucked. Labour fucked it. But it is no solution at all to throw yourself on the mercy of your neighbours without any intention of un-fucking yourself.

        We would be to Europe what Newcastle, Scotland and NI are to the UK. A monumental deadweight just becoming increasingly dependent on the welfare of others. And with no will or motivation to change.

        If the UK is ever to recover it needs to rediscover some national pride instead of being content to sloth along like some giant Karen Mathews. And we ain’t going to get that by sponging off our neighbours.

        Although the reality is that they will be sponging off us until we have fuck all left and then they’ll throw us out anyway.

        Like

        • 47
          Anonymous says:

          Labour didn’t mess it up.

          The British messed it up.

          Even now, while the country teeters on the brink of 1930s Germany, not one person can take responsibility for the state of their own country.

          Hilarious.

          Best wishes from EU mwah

          Like

          • Charles Flaccidwidger says:

            You’re Lord Mandelson and I claim my £5.

            Like

          • jgm2 says:

            The only person who can legally take any responsibility is busy fucking it up delibrately for purely political ends. The British didn’t elect him. Even his party didn’t elect him. They just didn’t stop him.

            He walked in unopposed. And now not one of the 400 bastards who can legally make a challenge has the courage to do so.

            Utter, spineless scum.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            The British elected Brown in the same way they elected Major, Callaghan, Eden.

            Fine, lynch Brown.

            Then who do you blame?

            The minorities and the homosexuals no doubt, if your BNP votes make a difference.

            Like

          • IRB says:

            Are you or have you ever in any way connected with those cancerously unfunny cartoons we get on a Monday morning.

            Some trolls are very professional, aren’t they?

            Like

          • Jonathan says:

            Sadly for you Anon, Britain has a longer history of free and democratic government than the rest of the EU put together. We just aren’t a fascist country, and aren’t in danger of becoming one anytime soon.
            Troll on back to your masters in Brussels, if you grovel sufficiently you might get a pat on the back and a nice sweety. Good doggy. However, not all people are as kind to doggies as the British, so you might come to a sticky end.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            “Sadly for you Anon, Britain has a longer history of free and democratic government than the rest of the EU put together.”

            That’s laughable.

            We only got universal suffrage in the last 100 years.

            Sweden has a longer history of free and democratic government than the UK, and that’s not even touching on the other 25 nations in the EU.

            Loser.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            I eat my own poo.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            I eat my own poo.

            Like

          • resurgemus says:

            yet another troll who doesn’t understand how to calculate averages.

            Mathematically Jonathan;s staement is correct.

            I do hope you don’t work with money anon.

            Like

          • Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

            No doubt you do eat your own poo.

            Is that between getting shitfaced on booze, urinating on memorials and tuning into the X factor?

            Some civilisation.

            Like

          • Jonathan says:

            Ok, let’s have a vote. In or out. Are you up for that Anon? I’m sure your silver tongue will be able to persuade the British people that the EU is our only future. Yes, calling them all xenophobes, fascists and losers will work nicely!
            The name calling really does indicate the poverty of your ideas. You’re not Damien McBride are you?

            Like

          • Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

            “yet another troll who doesn’t understand how to calculate averages.”

            Oh I see!

            So “the rest of the EU put together” now means “The rest of the EU put together and an average taken”.

            In addition, most European nation’s electoral systems today are far superior to our own.

            PS I do have a degree in Maths, admittedly only a 2-2 but it’s from a decent uni at least.

            Like

          • resurgemus says:

            Way too defensive; you seem to be suffering from numerous personal insecurities.

            Like

          • Mongrel says:

            A while back now, but the arse who calls himself anonymous said we would be fucked outside the EU, and that our financial sector was off to Zurich. Since when was Zurich in the EU? The two most prosperous countries in Europe are Switzerland and Norway, and what have they got in common? Not much – Switzerland has finance and Norway has oil, Norway is quite social democrat in mindset and Switzerland is old school capitalist, ah I remember neither of the is in the EU with all its pointless regulations.
            And please can we have no more of this stupid argument that because Brown has been a massively incompetent manager of our national finances, we should give up trying to run our own country and hand over responsibility to a bunch of unelected Eurocrats, who have been unable to get a clean audit certificate for their accounts in 20 years.

            Like

          • Susie says:

            Total rubbish. You are talking to people who were around the last time they mucked Britain up in exactly the same way, but to a far far greater degree this time.

            They’ve probably found that the IMF won’t be able to bail them out this time round so they go whimpering to big Nanny EU and hand over our sovereignty.

            They just can’t run a country — there’s just not the intellect, vision, talent, practicality or commonsense in Labour to do so… but this lot are so arrogantly chippy that they’d rather betray their own country than let someone else have a go who might turn things around like Maggie did and show them up for the shower they are. So they’ve fixed it this time so it’ll never happen.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            “Labour didn’t mess it up.

            The British messed it up.”

            If only we would all just shut the fuck up and do as we’re all told, like good obediant sheeple – things would be so much sweeter!

            /eyeroll

            Like

      • 142
        Mr Ned says:

        “Face it, UK. You have two choices:

        * A meaningful future in the EU
        * Descent into fascism and chaos outside the EU. It’s happening already – allegedly intelligent people prepared to vote for a Nazi. It’s 1930s Germany all over again.”

        BULLSHIT!

        A meaningful future in the EU? Excuse me? HOW THE FUCK can being broken up into a myriad different regions, (a different one for each area of bureaucratic competence) be meaningful?

        What is planned for the next two decades:

        Multi-regional, single competency administrative bureaucracies. For any given area of policy, there will be regional councils that comprise of pan-national regions. In other words, a region will consist of small parts of several countries. For example, Transmanche would be Southern England (excluding London) , Northern France and part of the Nederlands.

        Each region will be small, trans-national and only responsible for one area of political competency. But there will be a myriad of these regions covering everything from crime and punishment, to town twinning.

        So for the Environment there will be another European level of competency that is comprised of regions that cross former national boundaries.

        BUT, HERE IS THE BEST PART (if you love EU bureaucracy that is) Each area of political competency will have DIFFERENT geographical regions to any other area.

        SO for fishing you will live in one region, but for energy it will be a different one, and for environmental concerns, another different one again, for taxes, yet another and so on and so forth.

        This is the eventual plan. REMOVE NATION STATES FROM THE MAP ENTIRELY and make it impossible for people to live in ONE single political region.

        Geographically they will live in one house in one town, but that town will be represented politically in many different over-lapping regions.

        There will be an over arching EU that is responsible for EVERYTHING, but then each area of competency will be devolved into regional centres, SO THAT ALL the things that we USED to have a central Government, with separate departments for, now we have many different regions! The borders of these regions will all be different for each area of competency.

        You will effectively live in one country for fishing rights, and another for agriculture and another for education etc etc.

        That is how they are destroying the nation state, from the policy areas upwards. Everyone is looking for the EU to create political regions, like county councils, that control everything IN that region. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

        They are setting up thousands of policy areas that are devolved to small-regional centres of operations. For example the European mechanisms for managing town twinning. That is all those regions are responsible for.

        This is how the liberal media are accurately and correctly rubbishing the idea that national borders will be immediately replaced with smaller-transnational regions.

        We will not notice that our borders have slowly been erased until they are already GONE. All the power that used to reside in Westminster and Whitehall is NOW being devolved to separate quangos that will form the future multi layered administrative regions of the EU. It has been happening for years

        How else can I explain this …

        Think of a blank map of the EU showing the outline. Then randomly draw borders inside that split it up into 36 regions. These could be the regions for education.

        Then get another blank map and split it into 42 different random regions and these would be the regions for energy.

        Then do the same again, but with only 12 regions, and that could be the judicial system. And so on and so on.

        You will only have ONE physical address in a geographical region, but your life will be controlled and monitored from hundreds of different political regions.

        All to make sure that you cannot recover ANY national sovereignty or independence AT ALL. People will not be able to be loyal to their old nation states, because essentially ALL the old nation states will not exist anymore.

        The only way to prevent this is to STOP the Lisbon Treaty from allowing the changes that will permit it.

        We will NEVER get a referendum on each part,

        The only way to stop this now, is to vote UKIP and get the hell out of the EU entirely!

        Like

        • 152
          Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

          Sorry, I don’t see the problem. Who cares where the borders are?

          I have more in common with the Dutch and the Belgians than I do the workshy in the North West of the UK.

          Like

        • 387
          WokinghamChris says:

          It sounds a bit like making a complaint to an IT company.

          Each successive letter (if you insist on communicating in writing – WHICH OF COURSE YOU MUST DO) comes back from a different department with a different address.

          And no, they do not forward your correspondence to each other. They expect you to repeat what you said in your previous letters.

          It’s all done to make it difficult for you, and this sounds like our fate in the EU, if Mr Ned is correct.

          Like

      • 200
        Fred says:

        Which Johnny Foreigner aren’t we loving then? Jorg Haider, Geert Wilders, Le Penn?

        I should be careful what you wish for. The extreme nationalists are on the march again in europe and gaining in popularity all the time. Socialist twats like you have created exactly the right vehicle for their white-trash Euro-supremacy to rise to prominence.

        Like

        • 204
          Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

          You stick to your BNP voting, fool.

          Like

        • 382
          Anonymous says:

          Geert Wilders extreme nationalist? I don’t think so.

          But I would have thought deliberately flooding a country with hostile muslim immigrants and expecting the native population not to make a fuss, is extreme.

          Like

      • 420
        Down with Master Baiter! says:

        Bog off you pillock!

        Like

      • 427
        Hard-Lazing Voter says:

        We already fought two wars to not be subservient to Germans. We don’t want a third.

        Like

  5. 6
    Anonymous says:

    The rabid right-wing are idiots.

    Our future is in Europe.

    The alternative is a bleak dive into fascism, reminiscent of 1930s Germany.

    Think about the future for you children and grandchildren.

    Living in peaceful cooperation with our EU friends, or bickering like a sad, depleted nation on the sidelines of every decision making body in the world and voting in fascist Nazis.

    Like

    • 12
      jgm2 says:

      What? Like the Norwegians? You narrow-minded imbecile.

      Like

      • 22
        Anonymous says:

        The Norwegians have passed thousands of laws at the behest of the EU, whilst having no say in the drafting of those laws.

        They have masses of natural resources which we do not have, and they have a civilized, mostly sober educated population.

        We have none of the above.

        Like

        • 40
          Anonymous says:

          But they don’t have to pass the laws if they do not want too, and they can amend them how and when they want too…and they have a nice economic surplus.

          Like

        • 201
          Fred says:

          And we’ve been in the EU for decades. When’s it going to start working then?

          Like

          • Minekiller says:

            Indeed, a look at some audited accounts would be a start. Umm…

            As for our young Anonymous friend, he is typical of the smug self-serving Eurobots one meets in Brussels, who despise their own countries and cultures. They are worse than BNP Nazis, because they actually hate everybody who isn’t in their little Ode to Joy clique. The Brussels gravy train passengers are alone reason enough to want to be wel, well away from the EU.

            Like

          • Harriet's Handbag says:

            Hello Fred – the EU will start to work when Nelson gets his eye back!

            Like

    • 13
      Obama is a twat says:

      Fucking shite. Hitler would have exactly what we have now a centralised Europe run by a bunch of barking mad homosexuals.

      Hilter would be very proud of the EU.

      Like

      • 24
        Anonymous says:

        He would have been prouder of the British people planning to vote for Nazis because they hate Johnny Foreigner so much.

        Like

        • 30
          righty right wing (mrs) says:

          * Fascism

          * National Socialism

          * Communism

          * Socialism

          All European. All anti democratic. All anti self determination of free peoples & the nation state.

          And your beloved EU will prove to be a bigger threat to peace on the continent than all of the above put together.

          Out of the four above, which would you more closely identify with – you sound like a ultra right wing “Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer” fascist to me.

          Which is it?

          Like

        • 154
          righty right wing (mrs) says:

          Are you hard of reading?

          read the feffing list above.

          I am a right wing democrat – & i used to see left wing democrats as the opposite side of the democratic spectrum to my views.

          Now i see the left wing for what they really are – the enemies of democracy, self determination & freedom of the individual.

          Take your Euro collectivist fascism & shove it.

          Like

        • 205
          Fred says:

          Hmm, or we could suck up to the Islamofacists that want complete control of both mind and body like the left is doing all the time.

          Sorry, the left ain’t credible on this one and the people know it.

          Like

        • 253
          Obama is a Twat says:

          I don’t hate foreigners, I just hate fucking limp wristed liberal pricks who think they know best. Fuck off and die.

          Like

    • 18
      righty right wing (mrs) says:

      You again.

      Are you calling from Labour HQ or Conservative HQ?

      Same difference anyway.

      I would remind you of the other great European political institutions & movements that thought it would be in everyones interest to unify Europe without recourse to the ballot box:

      * Fascism

      * National Socialism

      * Communism

      * Socialism

      All European. All anti democratic. All anti self determination of free peoples & the nation state.

      And your beloved EU will prove to be a bigger threat to peace on the continent than all of the above put together.

      Out of the four above, which would you more closely identify with – you sound like a ultra right wing “Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer” fascist to me.

      Which is it?

      Like

    • 27

      “Living in peaceful cooperation with our EU friends, or bickering like a sad, depleted nation on the sidelines of every decision making body in the world and voting in fascist Nazis.”

      Apart from being a false dichotomy, I have no issue with living in peaceful co-operation with the EU, just being ruled by them. In fact I detest being ruled by politicians period, which is why I want as small a government as possible and one that sticks to upholding Rule of Law (as opposed to being ruled BY laws) under our Common Law system which is the best (i.e. least imperfect) legal system on the planet but precious little else.

      Trade with nations, binding agreements with NONE. The EU demands binding agreements. To hell with it. I do not give my consent, nor do I lend it my sovereignty, for history has proven it is a thief who will not give it back.

      Like

      • 53
        Anonymous says:

        We have nothing to trade.

        Like

        • 80
          Engineer says:

          You’re wrong.

          We have much to trade – both manufactured goods (oh, yes we do – not as much as we once had, but we still export) and intellectual services (quite a few engineering design consultancies and R&D companies in the UK). Also, don’t forget financial services – battered, but not dead.

          Like

          • Anonymous says:

            Battered, not dead, but moving to Zurich.

            Like

          • Engineer says:

            Not all of it. The City can expand as well as contract, given sensible regulation.

            Like

          • Mongrel says:

            Agreed Engineer.
            Enough of this moving to Zurich stuff. Insurance is not going there and nor is the law. They have two insurance companies there, one quite well run and one almost at death’s door. Both are stodgy bureaucracies that have no attraction for talented people. And for all London’s faults, it is a much more interesting place to live than Zurich.
            We have an excellent pharmaceutical industry and some very impressive new biotech companies, as long as Gordon doesn’t succeed in strangling them at birth with taxes, NI etc.
            Unfortunately this still means that 20% of us will be supporting the other 80% who have no productive value, but at least we won’t be supporting their equivalent all over Europe as well.

            Like

          • Samantha says:

            We also have a huge horseracing and bloodstock industry, with many millions changing hands at every sale – see the figures for the Tattersalls sales last week. Horses are sent from overseas to be sold here and huge numbers are exported subsequent to sale, all over the world. Many many foreigners (esp Arabs but also Americans, Russians, Malaysians, you name it have horses in training here – just look at some of the racing and breeding operations run by the Maktoums of Dubai or Prince Abdullah. It’s mega-bucks, and they all keep big houses here too and employ great numbers of people

            Our publishing industy is probably the biggest in the world – certainly was a few years ago when I worked in the sector. Did you know that eg most US textbooks used in all those 1000s of colleges over there are compiled in London? Almost all books on art and design are made here too.

            Just two economic areas withe which I’m familiar…
            These silly kids trolling on here have no idea how the economy of the UK works.

            Like

        • 81
          resurgemus says:

          Ludicrous

          we’ve been trading insults with most european nations for centuries

          Like

          • Engineer says:

            That’s true, I forgot that one.

            Cameron’s statement yesterday instantly upset the French, so he must have said something right.

            Like

          • Brown's a Tosser says:

            Anyone who upsets the French is a gooden in my book.

            Like

          • Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

            That’s the spirit Brown’s a Tosser.

            When your country is failing, your society crumbling, descend into puerile xenophobic comments.

            It’s like the Germans in the 1930s.

            Remind me how that worked out again?

            Like

          • resurgemus says:

            The German economy grew strongly in the 50s and 60s

            Like

          • Brown's a Tosser says:

            Maybe you need to get out more often. The French do not like us period and to be frank the feelings mutual. You can try putting phobia’s into the mix if you like but that shows your narrowmindedness not mine.

            Like

        • 256
          Obama is a Twat says:

          We could trade them a mad one eyed Scottish mong for our “freedom” (done in a shit Mel Gibson Scottish accent)

          Like

        • 397
          EUBanana says:

          I’m kinda puzzled what shit for brains here is on about. You expect the Germans to hand over some cash to us to tide us over? That is what you hope out of government?

          Like

      • 215
        Fred says:

        Um, the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Russia, India and China seem to manage somehow without being part of the EU.

        Care to expalin what on earth you are talking about or did you just have trouble weaning?

        Like

    • 82
      LABOUR PARTY STATEMENT says:

      LISTEN WELL TO ANONYMOUS 3.12
      HE TALKS GOOD SENSE HE IS NOT A TORY WEAKLING
      HE IS ONE OF US HE IS A NEW LABOUR WARRIOR!
      ANONYMOUSE IS IN FAVOUR OF WAR AND TORTURE
      ANONYMOUSE THINKS BOMBING AFGHAN WEDDINGS IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO
      GORDON BROWN IS STRONG WAR IS GOOD
      TORTURE AND OCCUPATION ARE GOOD TOO
      DEMOCRACY IS A PAIN IN THE ASS
      VOTE FOR LESS DEMOCRACY AND MORE WAR
      VOTE LABOUR
      THE FUTURE IS WAR THE FUTURE IS LABOUR

      Like

    • 178
      Number 7 says:

      You’re Dolly Draper – I claim my £5.00

      Like

    • 370
      Susie says:

      You will find those that can will vote with their feet. I certainly intend to, I’m not spending the rest of my life watching everything I hold dear and love (the English countryside, British humour, inventiveness and enterprise) trodden under foot and destroyed.

      There are far flung lands which are more ‘English’ than England has become and I’m off there.

      Where will all your EU contributions come from when you are left with what’s basically and off-shore multi-culti, benefit-reliant refugee camp?

      Like

  6. 7
    British Insurgent says:

    Same old Tories – easily bought off.

    Not a patriot amongst them.

    Like

  7. 9
    Obama is a twat says:

    Listen to the Nicki Campbell phone in on Radio 5 this morning. Endless camp wet leftie liberals stating that the unwashed scum (the British people) are NOT FIT to decide their future through a referendum and that it should be left to the ruling elite (more wet liberals) to decide for us.

    Apparently, we are too thick to be able to understand what our political masters are doing for us (ungrateful bastards that we are) so we shouldn’t have a say.

    Why not go all the way (as most liberals would like) and do away with all voting? Just elect the wet liberal elite from the BBC to tell us all how to live our lives, shut up and pay our taxes?

    Like

    • 25
      Anonymous says:

      Good idea.

      You only form your opinions from what Murdoch tells you anyway.

      Like

      • 32
        righty right wing (mrs) says:

        * Fascism

        * National Socialism

        * Communism

        * Socialism

        All European. All anti democratic. All anti self determination of free peoples & the nation state

        And your beloved EU will prove to be a bigger threat to peace on the continent than all of the above put together.

        Out of the four above, which would you more closely identify with – you sound like a ultra right wing “Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer” fascist to me.

        Which is it?

        Like

        • 52
          Anonymous says:

          “Out of the four above, which would you more closely identify with – you sound like a ultra right wing “Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer” fascist to me.”

          Coming from someone with a name Righty Right Wing, who is prepared to vote for the Nazi BNP, I won’t take any accusations of being fascist.

          My politics are my own, but they are libertarian, anti-socialist and pro-European.

          Like

          • righty right wing (mrs) says:

            The BNP slur is a nonsense & wrong.

            I could never vote for “Pol Pot-esque” agrarian fiscal policies if my life depended on it.

            And the BNP are left wing – read their manifesto, if you dare.

            You never know you may find some kindred spirits for your Ein Volk Ein Reich Ein Fuhrer Euro nazism.

            YOU are the socialist here.

            Like

          • Anonymous says:

            “libertarian, anti-socialist”

            How much are you getting paid to troll? Can I play too?

            Like

        • 60
          Anonymous says:

          Posting the same thing a hundred times makes you look really clever. I have explained my political outlook, and it’s probably quite similar to yours, aside from the xenophobic hatred of foreigners.

          Like

          • LABOUR PARTY STATEMENT says:

            ANONYMOUS SHUT THE FUCK UP
            YOU ARE STRAYING FROM THE PARTY LINE
            WE HATE ARABS WE TORTURE ARABS FOR AMERICA
            WE ELECTROCUTE THEIR TESTICLES AND BEAT THEM TO DEATH
            STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE TORIES HATING FOREIGNERS
            THE NEW LABOUR WAR PARTY HATES FOREIGNERS MORE THAN THE TORIES
            IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE PARTY LINE WE WILL TORTURE YOU
            SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU PUSSY
            THE PARTY LINE IS THIS: ARABS ARE DIRTY PEASANTS BOMB THEM
            VOTE FOR NEW LABOUR RACISM VOTE FOR TEN MORE YEARS OF WAR
            VOTE FOR TEN MORE YEARS OF OCCUPATION
            VOTE LABOUR
            THAT IS A CAST IRON GUARANTEE

            Like

      • 58
        anon says:

        And you only parrot what that recycled commie barroso tells you to via the bbc website.

        euro hoon that you are.

        Like

        • 71
          Anonymous says:

          No I just live in the EU and don’t want to have to come home and mingle with the drunken chavs in the UK watching X factor thanks.

          It’s quite civilised over here, you should come and try it some time.

          We’re out of recession already!

          And the Euro’s doing just fine.

          Remind me – how many more pounds were printed today?

          Monopoly money!

          A failed state

          Like

          • Fred says:

            Yeah out of recession already. Still on a 4 day week in Germany, 20% unemployment in Spain, Ireland down the bog.

            They are even better at telling lies than NuLabour.

            Like

      • 259
        Obama is a Twat says:

        Where do you get your “views” from wankstain? The public toilets on Hampstead Heath when you and half the BBC are buggering a 12 year old boy? Or perhaps in the queue in Islington for the weeks supply of Cocaine along with the other half of the BBC.

        Fuck off and die and take the fucking BBC bum boys with you.

        Like

  8. 15
    McGroom says:

    We hated big government interference and whole waste under New Labour.

    The Lisbon Treaty delivers an even bigger, no accountable, anto democratic government.

    Dan the Han is right, people across Europe want to control their own destiny and Britain needs to take the bold democratic step and decide whether we are IN or OUT of both Europe and Afghanistan.

    As Wolfie “Citizen” Smith would say – power to the people

    Like

  9. 20
    It's all Balls says:

    Hannan’s missing a trick IMHO. Dave promised that he would commit to a referendum in the second term (assuming he gets a first) if he didn’t manage to repatriate those items he listed yesterday in his first term.

    Hannan should forget fighting for what isn’t going to happen and fight for what has a far greater chance of success. He should demand that the Cameron pledge on reptariation of powers is made much more specific and also argue for the benchmark for success/failure to be defined.

    This will call Cameron to account on Europe in a far more productive way than trying to fight a battle which is already lost. If he doesn’t hit the benchmark for success then he will have no choice but to honour his pledge to have the referendum.

    I know there are many on here who think voting for UKIP will somehow win the day – well UKIP may get one MP (Farage) – how will that help the fight against the ever encroaching power of Brussels?

    It might make you feel better, right up until McDoom and Clegg walk into Number 10 and take us ever further into a Federal Europe.

    What you might term a Pyrrhic victory?

    Like

    • 39
      Right Bastard says:

      Hannan is Cameron’s trusted lieutenant in the EUSSR and won’t rock the boat. He will go on to do great things, all under the auspices of the Conservative Party. That’s where the power lies.

      Like

    • 54
      jgm2 says:

      That’s the choice I’m afraid. UKIP are the Ralph Nader/Ross Perot of UK politics.

      Without Ralph Nader there would have been no George W. He split the Democrat vote and allowed Bush into power. Bush, the man that fucked the US as surely as Blair/Brown fucked the UK.

      We need to be rid of our ‘Bush’ as surely as the yanks needed to be rid of theirs.

      The fact that Cameron will be handed the biggest economic hospital pass in the whole of history is neither here nor there. The alternative is to legitimize the utter economic and social destruction by giving the imbecile Brown an actual mantdate. Even if it’s as tainted as Bush’s ‘win’ with a minority of the popular vote you can be sure Brown will demonstrate the same arrogant ‘winner-takes-all’ attitude. No bi-partisan approach for Brown.

      More of the same partisan, devisive, politicking that has him squandering 200bn extra we don’t have this year in a desperate attempt to buy a single quarter of ‘growth’ and avoid any tough, grown-up, adult decisions.

      Like

      • 122

        Sorry but AlGor or JoKerry would have been epically worse. Of course, Obama minus Teleprompter is Americas version of Brown.

        Like

        • 174
          jgm2 says:

          Al Gore worse than George Bush? Al Gore and his monster ego has just gone off reservation with this green nonsense to give himself something to do. It’s the equivelent of Mohammed Ali embracing Islam. They all want to believe there is something ‘bigger’ so they can dedicate their lives to something ‘important’.

          There is no way Al Gore would have been worse than Bush. I have torch batteries that would make a better president than Bush. I have killed cockroaches that would make a better president.

          Like

          • Sam says:

            From my reading Al Gore is a very major shareholder in the companies which broker the trade-offs for ‘carbon footprint’ esp with the Third World. He and his associates are making billions form this huge scam.

            Off topic for this thread though – although the relevance is, just how much power unelected forner ‘politicos’ like Gore have, esp after they have made all the right contacts in office.

            Apropos, I’m surprised Guido hasn’t done a piece on Blair’s attempt to use of his ‘Middle East Peace Maker’ role (paid for by the taxpayer) to garner a million from Tesco for facilitating their bid to become the only food providers on the planet!

            http://tinyurl.com/ylhudsm

            I bet he;d have signed if the price had been right!

            Like

          • Well I normally like your posts, so lets agree to disagree on this.

            I’ve been following the activities of AlGor for a while, I think he’d be much worse.

            Like

      • 230
        Fred says:

        Cameron doesn’t need UKIP to fuck the UK. He’s shown by his cast iron promises that he can fuck the UK all by himself.

        Like

        • 351
          Mongrel says:

          He can’t fuck it up. Gordon has already done that, in pretty much every way imaginable. The only debate is whether he can fix it or not, and the jury is out, in fact as you can see it’s having quite a heated argument.

          Like

    • 77
      The real betrayal is Brown's and Clegg's says:

      Hannan doesn’t want the opprobium that goes with the tag “the man that cost the Conservatives the election”.He knows that he would never ever become leader of the party if that was the case and equally he knows that UKIP is a “busted flush” and that they will never achieve power and that any hope of getting anything done at all is to put all his efforts into getting Labour out and a Cameron led Conservative government. Once that is achieved he can then let loose on Europe but until that moment he’s playing the long game and pledging loyalty to the ONLY show in town at the present time – Cameron

      Like

      • 168
        1381 says:

        If Cameron is the only show in town we really are suckered.
        The man is a vile treasonous apology for a Brit.
        He can sod off and do the other thing with his fellow traitor Brown.
        Tories don’t get cocky.
        Add the UKIP and B/N/P vote in the Euro elections and it was not far short of the Tories and that was before the great betrayal.
        I wonder how Shameron willl feel, knowing his place in history.
        As a Tory traitor he comes just below Heath but above John Major. We won’t bother with the placing of NuLabour and the Lib Dems they have a category of their own.
        The whole lot should be tried for treason.
        To claim that Cameron is the only hope is total Crap.
        I understand the new UKIP leader may be Lord Pearson.
        Try that for a British leader. Right on!!

        Like

      • 344
        gordonsaysbyebye says:

        Frazer knows. He said it will all come to a head in five years. Enough time to get out of the present mess keep the pound and watch Euroland implode. Now that’s really something to look forward to.

        Like

    • 232
      Sam says:

      But what is the alternative?

      If you vote for these EU-enabling traitors in the 3 main parties, they say you agree with their policies.
      If you don’t vote, they say you don’t care and you’ve left it to them.
      If you spoil your ballot, it really is a wasted vote.

      At least if you vote UKIP you send a message about what is of primary importance to yourself, and they can’t say or pretend otherwise

      Like

      • 394
        Moderate Comment says:

        Messages cannot form a Government old chap, get rid of your emotion!

        Like

      • 408
        I'll have some of that says:

        Let’s have a referendum on whether to join the US.

        Most working people in this country woulsd rather have the option of free access to the US labour market than the European one.

        Like

  10. 29
    Keith Joseph smiles... says:

    …and a baby dies in a box on Beasley Street.

    Like

  11. 37
    TAKE OUT BROWN says:

    O/T Another British soldier has died after a roadside bomb – our blood is being shed in a far away place,sent there by the most corrupt and evil Prime Minister,unelected to the position and supported by a gang of fraudsters and criminals-he must be removed and removed NOW.

    MARCH ON DOWNING ST THIS WEEKEND

    FORCE GENERAL ELECTION NOW

    EJECT THE CRIMINAL BROWN NOW

    Like

    • 83
      Lizzie says:

      A march is the kind of action needed. Brown needs to be shown that he is wasting the lives of good British soldiers in a far off counrty, for no benefit to the British people. By staying in Afghanistan, Brown is playing into the hands of the Taliban.
      Afghanistan is their country, they understand the people and the territory. Britain are the foreigners, most Afghans want Britain to leave. Unless Brown gets a really clear message from the British people thay he must bring the troops home, this farce of a war is going to cost the lives of more good young men and women of the British army.
      Brown will go down in the history of Britain as the un-elected Prime Minister who kept Britain in an un-winable war in a foreign land.

      Like

      • 88
        TAKE OUT BROWN says:

        Then bloody well get up to London and we will MARCH – this weekend,lets do it.

        Like

      • 185
        1381 says:

        Hang on.
        Shameron and the Tories also support the illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
        They are just as guilty of shedding our soldiers blood.
        They supported the illegal war against the christian Serbs as well.
        Only the unmentionables have been against the last three criminal wars and the mass murder of some million and a half people.

        Like

      • 395
        Moderate Comment says:

        Lizzie
        I think you have unanimous support for your feelings, but marching anywhere is not recommended these days as you are liable to get your face smashed in by the TSG.

        Like

      • 396
        Susie says:

        Too easily hijacked by Islamo-fascists, Lizzie.

        It would just be turned into a Luton-style protest against our lads, not a protest about how they are striving to do a nigh on impossible job, under-manned, under-equipped and, if some reports are true, under-supplied with decent food or water in some places.

        I’d love the veterans to turn their heads the other way as they march past Gordon Brown on Remembrance Sunday though… watch him get the snub of his life on TV where he’d just have to stand and take it.

        Like

        • 410
          Moderate Comment says:

          The protest could have more opportunities. For example in Luton when the lads return home from duties in Afghanistan and march through the home towns, they should diperse amongst them a representative dressed in white for each their lads murdered or wounded during their recent operations.
          That would get some coverage.
          Perhaps members of the Government front benches could be forced to oblige.

          Like

    • 124

      http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/11/04/afghanistan.military.vehicle/index.html

      t looks likes a cross between a Humvee and a monster truck, and Pentagon officials hope it can save the lives of U.S. troops in Afghanistan.

      The Pentagon is rushing the M-ATV, the latest version of the U.S. military’s blast-resistant vehicles, to Afghanistan as roadside bombs take a heavy toll on U.S. forces there.

      “It will be a life-saver in Afghanistan,” said the Pentagon’s chief weapons buyer, Ashton B. Carter, undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics.

      October was the bloodiest month of the Afghanistan campaign, with 59 U.S. troops killed. At least 26 were victims of roadside bombs, also known as improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, according to Pentagon figures.

      Since 2007, the number of roadside bombs in Afghanistan has jumped 350 percent, according to Pentagon statistics. Although many of the bombs are found before they detonate, the number of troops killed has increased by more than 400 percent, and the number wounded is up more 700 percent over the past two years.

      The U.S. military has thousands of blast-proof Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles in Afghanistan. The MRAPs have been highly effective in shielding troops from roadside bombs in Iraq, but mountainous Afghanistan differs markedly from desert Iraq, where the MRAPs operated largely on paved roads and in open areas.

      Combat operations in Afghanistan often involve unpaved roads and small mountain villages not suited to the bulky, 40,000-pound MRAP, Pentagon officials have said. And the military’s ubiquitous and more maneuverable Humvees have proved vulnerable to roadside bombs during Afghan operations.

      So the Pentagon quickly developed, and is betting on, the new MRAP-All Terrain Vehicle, or M-ATV, to protect troops.

      With the weight reduced to 25,000 pounds, independent suspension and a better turning radius, the M-ATV gives the troops more power and maneuverability in Afghanistan’s tight spaces, the Pentagon says. Officials say it will eventually replace the Humvee as a combat vehicle in rural Afghanistan.

      “The terrain in Afghanistan is different from Iraq. It’s more uneven; the roads are difficult to traverse. That’s why we’ve had to create an all-terrain version,” Carter said, standing next to one of the vehicles at the Pentagon this week.

      Forty-one of the M-ATVs have been deployed to Afghanistan since late September, according to Pentagon officials. They hope to have at least 5,000 of the trucks there by March.

      Brown will send our troops some tumbleweed.

      Like

      • 379

        Yeah, some monster trucks will sort out a catastrophic quagmire

        Unbefuckinglievable!

        they’d be safer still out of the meat grinder

        it’s not just the Labour and Liberal backbenchers who are beginning to demand an Iraq style pull out date for Afghanistan, many backbench Conservatives also know a looming disaster when they see it and are getting mighty restive

        Like

      • 430
        Hard-Lazing Voter says:

        Even while Otwat dithers, his army sends their troops decent stuff. I’d be surprised if Gordo gives our troops a bucket to piss in.

        Like

    • 348
      gordonsaysbyebye says:

      Sorry can’t make it this weekend but give Brown one for me

      Like

    • 441
      daisy says:

      ‘TAKE OUT BROWN NOW’
      Count me in on your march! Action now! We have been skewered by those c—-s that hate us, the French, Germans & Scots! Brown is not trying to stabalise our economy, au contraire!

      Like

  12. 50
    Raving Loon says:

    Getting out of the EU is a good idea, but letting citizens directly make laws has got bad news written all over it. A pure democracy is pretty much mob rule.

    Like

    • 92
      Engineer says:

      Relying on the great mass of individuals to sort out the fine details of laws and political strategies is completely unfeasible, which is why we delegate this duty to politicians. In a democracy, the broad thrust of direction is still the sole right of the plebiscite – which is why the denial of a referendum on Lisbon by Labour (a matter so fundamental to the UK’s future) is so offensive.

      Like

    • 278
      Sam says:

      Something most comment on the EU ignores is how this system works in Europe.

      Most decisions directly affecting people are taken at LOCAL level – primarily by the Communes (Parishes) where the locally elected Mayor has enormous power.

      More important decisions, eg over roads and planning matters, are taken at ‘district’ level, these districts being based on the old independent City States – eg the provinces, in Italy, of Siena, Florence, Arrezzo, etc. In most places esp in Italy, also in Spain, you can tell instantly you drive from one province itno another, just visually… These elected regional councils too have great power.

      In wider terms the entire region also has an administrative arm and function – eg Toscana (Tuscany) in Italy or in Spain, the Balearics Islands, and above them the Catalonian government.

      What happens at national/EU level barely affects people at all, therefore; and EU regulations are ignored wholesale if they don’t suit local conditions, the ‘authorities’ turning a blind eye.They know they would be voted out of office if they came down on certain priactices!

      I’ve lived in Italy, France and Spain and this (basically Napoleonic) system is similar in all three countries. It’s totally different from our own top-down system and it’s why continental people are tolerant of the EU so long as their political class screw plenty of grants etc out of that body. Which handouts are of course mainly paid for by us the Brits as we are huge net contributors).

      These EU grants are dispensed at local level, and spent by your neighbour, for whom you voted. Simples!

      Here, neither the Parish Councils nor the District Councils have much real power, and the County or City councils don’t have a fraciton of the power enjoyed by their continental equivalents. Most local givernment in this country is carried out by paid apparatchiks, and Prescott in particular did his utmost to emasculate any right our elected representatives might have had

      This tragic situation woudl be unthinkable over the channel:

      http://tinyurl.com/yjut9pj

      Like

    • 388
      Moley says:

      The crucial element of a democracy is the ability to remove a Government which has become corrupt and is abusing its power.

      This is what is wrong with the EU.

      Once a government protects itself from ever being removed from office it becomes a dictatorship and it is in the nature of mankind that it it will become more corrupt, more oppressive and more tyrannical as time passes; it will have to do that to survive increasing dissent and umpopularity.

      This is the future that Europe faces. Look at how local authorities have abused their surveillance powers and imagine it multiplied a hundredfold over the whole of Europe.

      Like

  13. 55
    The Ape man commeth says:

    As the media love a strap line it’s interesting to compare how much the BBC deride and ridicule Cameron’s ‘Cast Iron Guarantee’ and yet how little they mention the Scottish monster’s ‘Boom and Bust’ quote, and when they do it’s never with the same derision or carries the claim that it will lose them respect of party members or voters. Even though one was from a member of the opposition who did not have the power to implement it so was unable to put it to the test, while the other was very much ‘tested’ and was found to be fraudulent, stupid and is now totally discredited.

    I think when it comes to the GE and which party to vote for it’s the choice of the lesser of evils, which is contingent on which of them is most likely to gain power. The utter crassness and incompetence of the vile self-serving duplicitous labour party rules them out without a second thought; which would leave only the Conservatives likely to gain power. Putting the nightmare of the E’u’ on one side for the moment, (it is a very emotive issue right now and calls for some distance and a cooler analysis). On their track record of pulling this country out of the financial difficulties previous Labour governments have placed us in, they have my vote on the economic issues. On the erosion of my civil liberties and curtailment of my freedom by the paranoid and distrustful Labour government, in my opinion, an equally important issue, I think the Conservative party have (because of the overarching importance and demands of the new economy) a slightly less solid endorsement from me, but one, none the less, much stronger than the Labour party.

    Like

    • 68
      jgm2 says:

      It’s ‘no such thing as society’ all over again. The whole [Thatcher] quote makes perfect sense and is undeniably right. But it suits the socialists to twist everything out of context and sneer.

      Because they have nothing of their own to offer except economic devestation, unemployment and idiocy.

      Like

      • 126
        It's all Balls says:

        “I think we’ve been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it’s the government’s job to cope with it. ‘I have a problem, I’ll get a grant.’ ‘I’m homeless, the government must house me.’ They’re casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It’s our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There’s no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation.”

        Prime minister Margaret Thatcher, talking to Women’s Own magazine, October 31 1987

        Like

        • 140
          Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

          Exactly, yet you’re all on here whinging about Brown.

          Do as Mrs T says, grow some and take some responsibility for your country.

          Like

      • 431
        Hard-Lazing Voter says:

        I want to see Dumbletwat cry tears of bitterness on election night.

        Like

    • 398
      Moderate Comment says:

      Yes and it’s going to be blood, sweat, toil and tears all over again. History can teach a lot- pity it’s no longer in the schools curriculum

      Like

  14. 61
    tardkiller says:

    Dan is still the man.

    The Plan 2.0 will be our long term best hope, as currently politics changes too much from term to term to do any real good for the UK.

    I’ve read The Plan, so I think I’m qualified to comment, my only worry is that unlike Dan I believe that by and large, people are genrally stupid, greedy open to corruption, The Plan will only work if this country raises its IQ level as a whole and stops thinking in backward/class/racist ideologies.

    Like

  15. 70
    Mitch says:

    BTW any news from Old Holborn on his London mince?

    Like

  16. 72
    Lizzie says:

    The internet is instant and a very powerful modern tool in today’s world. But to date, I believe blogs, while being fairly influential, such as Guido Fawkes Blog and other political blogs “stir up the shit” so’s to speak, excuse mu “French”, the blogs have not been as effective as a good the old fashioned march, remember the “poll tax” march in London.
    Brown is swanning it, hiding in the No10 bunker, safe from any scrutiny. It is really time for the real action, call that revolutionary but maybe Brown needs to be shown the door, Brown is a traitor. Brown has done a great deal of damage by signing the Lisbon Treaty, do people realise what is lost.
    There is quite a bit of “crap” spoken on this blog, but at the end of the day, Britain’s freedoms are at stake, that is the truth, Brown has signed, sealed and delivered Britain to EU control, please take some time to consider what has really occured.

    Like

    • 84
      Put your feet where your mouth says:

      Lizzie
      As I have so often stated on this site – I am ready to march on Downing St but i get shouted down every time.

      What the fuck does it take for you all to get out there and MARCH – march on Buckingham Palace peacefully demanding the Queen forces the utter scum Brown to call an election.

      We stay in The Mall until Brown is forced to call an election.

      Just imagine 1,000,000 Brits standing outside Buckingham Palace day after day after day – it could work and I am ready to do so.

      Like

      • 96
        Anonymous says:

        It’s too cold

        Like

      • 106
        Anonymous says:

        But what about the X factor?

        Like

      • 107
        Anonymous says:

        Only if there’s free special brew and some monuments to urinate on.

        Like

      • 188
        1381 says:

        me too!

        Like

      • 399
        Susie says:

        I agree — a Velvet Revolution — worked in Czechoslovakia and Romania and damn nearly worked in Tehran.

        Unfortunately we are 2 years too late. The time to have done it was a welcome home party for Gordon when he’d come back from Barcelona and signing the Constitution. As President Klaus said, too little too late.

        I honestly cannot recall UKIP organizing a single protest, which is one of the reasons I sceptical of either their true aims or organizational ability.

        Like

        • 438
          Samantha says:

          UKIP organised a march in London a few years ago. The media ignored it before the event and failed to report after it that there were c 30,000 in London – which given the blanket news blackout wasn’t bad

          Like

          • daisy says:

            I was on an anti EU demo outside Westminster a couple of years ago. Some youths, anti something else, managed/were allowed to get onto the roof of Westminster and only they appeared in the press and on TV news – how convenient!

            Like

    • 93
      Watt Tyler says:

      The Poll tax rioters were, by and large (broadbrush statement) students. However over the top they went they did at least show people’s fury at the Government.

      Unfortunately most of the people that hate Brown and his government are ‘hardworking people of Britain’ who are seeing everything they have worked hard for being disintergrated. They are unlikely, or have time to rise up and take to the streets.

      The Government deserve baracking, placarding and being heckled. Maybe even the BBC would report it.

      Could it be subcontracted?

      Like

      • 389
        Moley says:

        The poll tax rioters were well organised militant lefties whe were and are better tolerated by our media and authorities than any other dissenting group.

        Anybody who marches on a Labour Government is “obviously” a right wing fascist extremist and will be crushed.

        Like

        • 400
          Susie says:

          Tax Payers’ Alliance, Countryside Alliance (400,000 protesters — myself and my 89 y/o Dad included) even the Women’s Institutes FFS — surely they could organize a decent and dignified rally?

          Like

    • 355
      gordonsaysbyebye says:

      It’s the ultimate sell out of the British people. The Final Treaty with ratchet clauses automatically leading into a fully federalised state. Written like a pension plan so no-one could really understand it until it’s too late. What did they do with traitors like Blair Brown and Mandelson in the middle ages. Hung drawn and quartered me thinks.

      Like

  17. 75
    EJ says:

    When he talks about “a decentralised style of government from local level to the supra-national level”, does that include allowing local authorities to legalize and then tax drugs within their own areas?

    Like

  18. 85
    half the story says:

    I like Dan Hannan and think this shows his “smarts”, leave the bluster for now and wait till you can control the agenda.

    His wing of the Tories will always be onside but may campaign for different things. Another smart thing to do, as when the winds are in your favour you need to make sure the mast is prepared.

    Like

  19. 90
    ALL Labour governments end in failure says:

    Like so many many times in the past the Eurosceptics go off at half cock and achieve – NOTHING. Hannan knows that this is the wrong battle at the wrong time. Labour betrayed Britain NOT Cameron. If Labour manage to win the election or stay in power with the help of the LibDems then any chance of doing anything regarding Europe will be – zilch.

    Hannan realises that first thing to do – is to get rid of Labour. An Opposition can do nothing – they have NO POWER even hold a referendum but a government CAN do quite a bit. He also realises having studied the calamitous history of the Conservative Party since the 1980′s that “Europe” will not deliver that election victory and that the electorate will turn away from a split party as as been proven in the last 3 elections when the Conservative Party indulged in internal wranglings over Europe and rightly so. Some people need to take a deep breath, go and lie down in a darkened room and think through the implications of voting UKIP – a further 5 years of Labour and a federal Europe

    Like

    • 110
      Charles Flaccidwidger says:

      Hear, hear. I would like to add that I suspect David Cameron has not let on all that he intends to do over Europe.

      Like

      • 134
        Lord Hailsham says:

        too fucking right he hasn’t.

        it’ll be: “I’m PM now so if you don’t like it you know what you can do”

        Like

    • 131
      Dobbo says:

      At last someone talking sense. I am appalled at Dan Hannan, a man I had huge repect for until this petulant outburst. Imagine Brown’s smugness when those who vote UKIP deliver a second (and legitimate) term for Brown and a fourth for the rest of his despicable gang. For God’s sake, get real – support Cameron and work from inside to put things right. If you want a referendum that says in or out – say so. Don’t keep banging on about Lisbon – it’s done, finished, sold out by Gordon Brown – not David Cameron

      Like

      • 401
        Susie says:

        Totally agree Dobbo. Cameron will not mess about when he’s PM — he’s lean, keen and could probably be quite mean too if required.

        Like

    • 150
      Sam says:

      Yes; as I said last week Eurosceptics esp if they are Tory members or even voters are in a cleft stick rtight now, and NOT one of their making. The economic situation is so dire, it is bound to take the incoming Govt’s full attention until that is stabilised

      But Hannan has not lost sight of the ultimate problem. On his blog today he linked to this analysis he made in June 2007,
      http://tinyurl.com/yfvfsdd in which the most improtant words are:

      ” …In two regards, the new draft is worse than the old. When the text was a constitution, it at least had a certain finality to it: further alterations would have required a cumbersome amendment process. Now, though, it contains an “escalator clause”, allowing Brussels to extend its jurisdiction without needing further treaties. At the same time, the French have taken out the commitment to free competition, rasing the awkward question of whether the EU now serves any purpose whatever. ”

      We should be glad that Hannan does maintain cordial relations with Cameron, since at least he – Hannan – understands what Labour has signed up to. Maybe he can get Dave to grasp it!

      PS Guido can you get rid of the LabourList trolls please!
      They don’t even contribute amusement: Insults are not a form of debate, even for teenagers

      Like

      • 179
        Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

        The insults are coming from the other side actually, whenever someone tries to raise an opinion that does not fit in with the Murdoch agenda.

        I have no need to insult to put my views across.

        It’s only the mob that need to do so. After all, debate exposes them as people with no vision for the future of the UK except to run away from johnny foreigner.

        Like

        • 320
          no longer anonymous says:

          Please explain how we benefit from our employment laws being made by the EU?

          Like

        • 360
          Mark Oaten's dog says:

          Will you stop shitting on about johnny foreigner. It’s a pitiful attempt to conflate (go and look it up) a concern for democracy with xenophobia. The issue here is not whether we are close to our friends in Europe, it is whether we wish to be governed by unelected centralist Eurocrats.

          Like

        • 374
          astroturf detector says:

          @179

          You claimed to be a ‘right-wing libertarian’ a few posts back, yet seem to think a complaint about “LabourList trolls” applies to you.

          Whoops!

          Like

  20. 99
    Gary Elsby stoke says:

    It’s interesting watching Tories knife each other.

    Not that I get any perverse or sexual pleasure out of it, you understand.

    Like

    • 108
      ABBEY GREEN: BNP GAIN says:

      Oh, you’re back are you Gary? Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Gary Elsby the man so mad he makes the BNP look normal.

      Like

  21. 111
    Hugh Bristic says:

    Dan has possibly recognised that the battle over the referendum on the Treaty may have been lost, but that need not matter if people focus on the long term aim of the campaign which is to create a new democracy for the 21st Century.
    The internet has an important role to play by enabling communities of like minded people to exchange ideas without requiring them to travel to meetings.
    I don’t think we are yet ready to use the internet for voting as it is too open to fraud, but the concept of sending MPs to Westminster to rule over us for the following five years is positively medieval, and has degenerated into an elective dictatorship.

    Like

    • 114
      Lord Hailsham says:

      Oi – that’s my idea!

      Like

      • 265
        Hugh Bristic says:

        Agreed milord, but relevant today, because the people have no recourse against a government that is elected on a manifesto which they choose to ignore.
        If the electorate had more rights to challenge the government through referenda we would not have to wait 5 years before voting the lying inadequates out.
        With the internet the electorate is much better informed than was the case when the parliamentary system evolved.
        The present system is out of date and reform is overdue.

        Like

  22. 112
    SO17 says:

    Short term thinking is what has ballsed up this country.
    If in the pursuit of a strong right of centre Conservative party Labour get another five years so be it.
    ‘Change’ will take time but we have come too far now to accept a Cameron copout government.
    Things really do have to get worse before they get better, our forfathers accepted that in WW2 and so should we now.

    Like

    • 118
      Anonymous says:

      Er they didn’t “accept” it, they were conscripted.

      Like

      • 149
        SO17 says:

        The old British public understood the abstract concept of sacrifice for a future that they themselves may never live to see.
        A concept that you probably don’t understand.

        Like

        • 175
          Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

          I do – that’s why I’m pro-European.

          It’s our only hope of at least a semblance of prosperity in the future.

          Refusing to even consider it because I don’t like French people or Germans is idiotic, puerile and highly damaging to our nation’s future.

          Like

          • resurgemus says:

            so what you’re saying is 12 years of Socialism have fucked the country.

            Couldn’t agree more. However it’s recoverable, it was the same in 1979.

            Like

          • SO17 says:

            Prosperity?
            We pay in more than we get out. We buy more than we sell.
            For what?
            To be told what to do/say/eat/shit by Hunts who have been proven throughout history to be wrong.
            Thank god for Trident.

            Like

      • 281
        Minekiller says:

        Except in Northern Ireland where they volunteered.

        Like

    • 181
      Anonymous says:

      Window Sticker: Vote Labour. Provoke Revolution.

      Like

  23. 115
    Jack Cade. says:

    We need Independant Candidates for the next General Election, perhaps as a loose affiliation under the Guido Fawkes banner.
    There are enough articulate and cynical bastards on here to make a real difference to this country.

    Like

  24. 116
    Sir William Waad says:

    A man, a plan – Dan Hannan.

    Like

    • 135
      Master Baiter says:

      A farmer making hay in November, a drunk? autistic? and round bales too, how quaint, what is it a petting farm?

      Like

      • 358
        Sir William Waad says:

        I told you, we had to re-bale some of the hay. Please pay attention. If you’ve been anywhere near a farm lately you’ll see that the new machines create cylindrical bales, about the same shape as a small tin of baked beans on its side.

        Like

    • 280
      Bolton Wonderer says:

      Is that supposed to be an palindrome ?

      Like

  25. 117
    Master Baiter says:

    It seems the the UK’s European partners are trying to signal something to the Conservitude Party.

    Note the key words:

    Castration
    Autism

    Now study Dan Hannan.

    That is all.

    Like

    • 119
      Sir William Waad says:

      Not exactly PC, these Froggies, what?

      Like

    • 123
      resurgemus says:

      yes they’re signalling they are shit scared of developments and of having an opposition developing to the EU Commission.

      Like

      • 146
        Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

        Bollocks.

        They’ll get along fine once the UK buggers off.

        Sinking into oblivion with its chavvy drunken population and millions on benefits who have never worked.

        Like

        • 436
          Anonymous says:

          “Sinking into oblivion with its chavvy drunken population and millions on benefits who have never worked.”

          Never working; isn’t that the socialist dream, eurotard? What’s this problem?

          Like

      • 147
        Engineer says:

        Hear, hear.

        Like

      • 151
        Master Baiter says:

        Poor old Hague, having to do all the mopping up these days. He’s a loser, stick on the telly and radio more a true gift to the government. Tlaks like a zombie from a 1950′s ‘orror flick.

        Hrrmph, we are not, hrrmph, we are not castrated. Hrrmph we are not autistic.

        Hahahaha

        Like

        • 163
          Engineer says:

          So the Bunker is flummoxed. Can’t think of anything to say, so just gratuitously insult someone.

          Like

          • Gordon is a moron says:

            Using a disability as a slur, no less. Oh, how the left have fallen from that high horse of defending the vulnerable.

            Like

          • Master Baiter says:

            Hague is being made to do all the mopping up.
            Jolly fine chap underneath that exterior dripping with repression.

            Kaminski
            Latvia
            Cast iron Lisbonbon treats
            Castration and Autism

            See?

            Like

          • Maybe they read Order-Order and TaTs Cripple insults translate into Frogish.

            Like

        • 184
          resurgemus says:

          yes MB

          I’m sure with all your many years on the international circuit he’s really looking to your experience. Holiday in a gite wasn’t it ?

          Like

        • 193
          Nick Shortarsy says:

          I quite like him with his cute leetle bald head and his wrinkly face.
          I can’t really hold the voice thing against him because I too have a funny accent. I like the bit where he says “Manooovers”.

          Whats your accent like? I imagine you sounding a bit like Pete Shelly.

          We should ask Guido.

          Like

      • 182
        AnonymouslyAnonymous says:

        The French Europe Minister, M. Lellouche, has obviously been studying “British Politics” over the past 24 hours since his outburst to “The Guradian” and has now “clarified” his original statement , to the BBC News Channel. No doubt it has been explained to him that his original comments are “not helpful” to ” Le Projet de l’ Europe” . “C’est triste mais pas de pathetique, n’est-ce pas ?”

        Like

        • 224
          Mr Plum says:

          It would be helpful if anyone new what “Le Projet de l’ Europe” is.
          We only get vague spun statements that contradict each other.
          Does anybody know what the ultimate goal is in say 50 years.

          Like

        • 288
          Minekiller says:

          Mind you, it is telling that the Tories are being treated as a government…….and the French rant proves there is concern the Brits will leave the club – and take all that money with them. The UK can mange perfectly well outside the EU. leaving is easy, you just – well – leave.

          Like

        • 409
          I'll have some of that says:

          Perhaps he should have a chat with Thick as thieves. It pays to enlarge your vocabulary.

          Like

    • 153
      Engineer says:

      You’ve been quiet today, MB. No orders forthcoming from on high? Has the Bunker had trouble working out a spin line to Cameron’s statement?

      Like

      • 164
        Master Baiter says:

        I eat my own poo. Mummy hates it.

        Like

        • 202
          It's all Balls says:

          That’s as ambiguous as a politicians promise.

          Do you mean Mummy hates eating your poo?

          Or do you mean Mummy hates you eating your poo?

          This is important stuff.

          Like

        • 271
          Anonymous says:

          Yes, I was concerned about MB’s absence too, in case he/she was posting somewhere else where it could be seen by anyone who might actually believe any of his/her paid-for drivel.

          Or was he/she busy with applications for other pay-per-post positions after next May?

          Anyway, no worries, he/she is still safely wasting his/her time in our good hands.

          Like

      • 176
        Master Baiter says:

        Dan Hannan is another gift to the government.
        The Conservitudes are developing a fabulous image of being peopled with stark staring (literally in the case of Hannan) nutters.
        Osborne
        Hague
        Hannan
        unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable, why do they do it.
        They have normal human beings like Liam Fox, why do they wheel out these nutters?

        Like

        • 190
          Engineer says:

          More gratuitous insults. You really are struggling, today, aren’t you?

          Like

          • Master Baiter says:

            Serious question why do the Conservitudes wheel out nutters like Hannan and Hague ionstead of normal seeming people like Liam Fox?
            Oh sorry yes, according to Guidiot the Oaf’s piece above, Hannan is being locked in a kennel for the foreseeable and if quiet will be let out on a short choke chain to walk in a park and sniff and use cast iron lamp posts.

            Arf, arf, arf!

            Like

          • rudy says:

            MB’s mum is wondering why his socks have gone all stiff, bless her.

            Like

          • Engineer says:

            Call that a serious question?

            I wonder what a daft question would look like…..

            Like

        • 191
          Master Baiter says:

          Hang on, my beloved Gordon is just ever so slightly bonkers and gobbles pills. And as for ‘blinky’ Balls….How does this fit in with my propaganda?

          I shall retire to the toilet, where I intend to consume my own poo and gaze at a picture of Goebbels.

          Like

          • TheCourtOfPublicOpinion says:

            Master Baiters true identity revealed! Its the best LibDem leader we never had, Mark Oaten himself.

            Like

        • 195
          oh danny boy says:

          Psycho

          Like

      • 210
        resurgemus says:

        really MB you should know better than to set yourself up. Now you are just inviting a game of spot the weirdo in Labour.

        Brown – barking mad
        Miliband D – at the wrong end of a donkey’s gang-bang if he goes to Europe
        Mandelson – does he stub cigarettes on himself just for the pleasure ?
        Hattie………..

        Like

    • 157
      BillyBob poops on ZaNuLab says:

      A bit of a smokescreen here……… ZaNuLab are the odious turds and their supporters are the hemorrhoids clinging to the arsh*le !!

      Like

      • 171
        BillyBob poops on ZaNuLab says:

        seems the lefties have selective amnesia again, again and again MB clearly is an apologist for evil !!

        Like

    • 194

      Yes, these frog MPs are distinctly confused.

      Autism is a highly masculine brain.

      Castration is removing masculine features.

      Even their insults are oxymoronic.

      Like

  26. 162
    Road_Hog says:

    Christ, the comments on this thread must be about the worst I’ve ever read here. I know we like a rant and the odd insult, but it’s getting a bit silly today.

    Like

    • 170
      Engineer says:

      It was even sillier last night. It’ll calm down once people start engaging their brains a bit.

      Like

    • 173
      Vote BNP and call others fascists - the new irony says:

      That’s the rabid right wingers for you.

      Like

    • 180
      Blog Censor says:

      Too sensible – cancel his subscription

      Like

    • 222
      Get Real says:

      It’s either a very brave man or a very foolish one that get’s in the way of a Party that can smell power within its grasp. “Never Again” will a few “wingnuts”(I found that word on Iain Dale’s site and rather like the image)be allowed to ruin the chances of power as they a have done for the past 20 years. People don’t seem to have realised that the “Cameroons” are a ruthless lot and will “take out” anybody- Hannan included – should he put that possibility at risk. The tag – “The Man who lost the Party the election” wouldn’t sit too well on someone who has ambitions to lead the party someday and Hannan knows that full well – hence his re-positioning and refusal to play up to UKIP( a party who has absolutely NO chance of gaining even one MP at a General Election much less gaining power and without power all is meaningless posturing)Europe can wait – the first and only priority is to defeat Labour and clear up their mess . Europe is distraction that the Party can ill afford and is a “gift for Labour” the true “Quislings” and Betrayers of Britain

      Like

      • 247
        Master Baiter says:

        Clank they’re all locked in the kennel now, just listen when there’s a full moon.

        That’s when the tory loony eurobsessives will go

        Awooooo, Awoooooo

        That’s an iron clad guarantee.

        Like

    • 227
      Anonymous says:

      Lefty trolls have nothing left but insults. They know the sun is setting on New Labour.

      Like

  27. 183
    Jimmy says:

    “Dan Hannan isn’t doing interviews ”

    Now that’s what I call a story. The last unfortunate to get between him and a camera is still in ICU.

    Like

  28. 186
    oh danny boy says:

    FUKIP

    Like

  29. 187
    Sam says:

    If any of the baiters had made any study of European political systems, as I have, they would understand that elective democracy is almost unknown in those countries. They have always been governed by a political elite, educated for that purpose, or by monarchs and despots.

    We on the other had have spent centuries fighting to retain our democracy however imperfect, and curtailed the power of our own monarchs and despots back in the C17th – or arguably at the time of Magna Carta.

    Of course those on the Left are not interested in elective democracy either, which is why they have sold us down the river to an international cabal of political elites, and fostered the ‘Presidential’ system to emasculate our Parliament.

    Which side you are on depends whether you believe in government form the top down, as te Left and the EU-philes do, or whether like Hannan you believe in government ‘of the people, for the people, and by the people’ – ie form the bottom up.

    It really is tha tsimple a choice. There can be no middle way

    Like

    • 212
      Engineer says:

      Since our brief flirtation with republicanism in the 17th century, we’ve been steadily refining democracy within the framework of Constitutional Monarchy. Not sure it’s perfect, but it has allowed Britain, and the UK to achieve much at home, and to contribute much to the rest of the world.

      Some of the other nation states of the EU may not like to acknowledge that, but they sure as hell know it and respect it. They want us in for our expertise and our financial contribution. That gives us more bargaining power than some realise.

      Like

  30. 198
    uncle joe says:

    “The EU is the Reincarnation of the Soviet Union – Pravda”

    Little wonder lefties love it so much.

    Like

  31. 213
    1381 says:

    Daniel Hannan

    A lump of fudge cake topped with marshmellow.
    Without the spunk to stand up and do the honourable thing.
    He is just as big a flunk out as his boss.
    Big mouth, small everything else . Non existent Ba..s
    He has lost all credibility as well I am afraid.
    He could have seized the moment and made a difference.
    He has put party before country.
    Just another failed 10th rate politician.

    Like

  32. 234
    Master Baiter says:

    Dan Hannan MEP South East, Conservative, the easiest and safest job in the world, money’s all right too.
    All hat and no cattle.

    Locked in a kennel now like the cur he is.
    Has seen the light, shut up or off the top of the list and out on the street come the next Euro election.

    Like

    • 248
      hubris says:

      Aww…didums, having a go at Dan for beating the shit out Gordon at the EU parliament. Must have hurt quite a bit at the time, to show McTwat up as the intellectual pygmy that he is. The left have never forgotten it, hence their nasty spite now.

      Like

      • 277
        Master Baiter says:

        Dan Hannan is locked away, in the kennel with all the other loony tory eurobsessives.

        Even the Conservitudes are in favour of QE (quantitative easing) now.

        Which shoots Hannan’s fox.

        It’s all right go and Czech the video of Hannan’s autistic castrati performance.

        Normal people don’t warm to Hannan, it’s all in the focus group polling.
        Poof and he’s gone!

        Like

      • 403
        Susie says:

        I bet Gordon got an erection… “Ooooh I love it when you talk dirty, Dan” hence the inane grin on his mush.

        On the sado-masochistic scene I’d imagine Bruin’s the sort who lies back and thinks of Scotland.

        Like

    • 285
      Anonymous says:

      Christ, you’re back *again*?

      How do you keep getting out of that straitjacket?

      Like

  33. 241
    industry what industry says:

    europe least of our problems another 25 billion gone in down the drain

    Like

  34. 243
    Alex Hilton says:

    I eat my own poo….ooooppppppppps!

    Like

  35. 244
    Harry Hornet says:

    Dan Hannan is obviously far more sane than most of the nutcases on here.

    Like

  36. 252
    cast iron Dave says:

    Hannan resigned from the front benches
    Pretending that isn’t because he’s opposed to Camorons policy is, no matter how you try to spin, pretty fucking obviously Dan V Cam so very funny

    Cameron’s probably got him on a very short leash indeed after his eccentric NHS outburst and has told him to keep it zipped now or else and Dan has meekly agreed

    wonder how long it will be before Tebbit decides to break cover ?

    Like

    • 269
      vlad the inhaler says:

      So what? It’s not exactly front page news is it? In fact it’s a bit of a non story outside the Westminster village and a narrow section of the blogosphere. Mind you, it may have given you something to wank over, I grant you.

      Like

  37. 258
    Master Baiter says:

    Dan Hannan the man with instructions:

    SHUT UP.

    Like

    • 276
      kramer says:

      He can talk all he likes when the Tories get into government with a tasty majority mr wank.

      Like

      • 279
        Master Baiter says:

        Unlikely, the job’s done, he’ll be lucky to keep the Conservitude whip.

        They’ll clear him out with all the other creeps.

        Like

        • 291
          Anonymous says:

          Master Baiter: he may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don’t let that fool you: he really is an idiot.

          Like

        • 293
          kramer says:

          Hmmm… I kinda think I’ll wait and see, rather than accept the view of a Labourwrist tosspot who doesn’t know WTF he’s talking about.

          Thanks all the same.

          Like

  38. 262
    Ruth Kelly's plaything says:

    Guido, your analogy with Keith Joseph is apt (except that Hannan’s eyes don’t swivel wildly).

    Hannan is the only Tory who publicly shows signs of understanding the need for a re-fashioning of party philosophy along less vacuous lines than ‘heir to Bliar’. (Others may understand it but for understandable reasons they are quiet.)

    It will be a long march, but when Camero-Bliarism’s beauty-contest politics fails, as they assuredly must, the party will be so glad that Hannan is there to present a cogent programme. Meanwhile he will have to endure sniping from the small-minded.

    Like

  39. 264
    Ewanme says:

    OMG !!!!

    Fuck that , darlin x .

    I only comment if I’m gonna be first or fifth or somethin .

    Danny is : a) A Tory b) A politician c) Bald an , therefore , not to be trusted .

    Politics is OK for the deluded , the gossipy girly-guys (hiya Paul x) an the narcissistic .

    For us normal people it’s just a load of twats talkin to each other an then writin about it .

    E x .

    **YAAAWWWWN***

    Like

  40. 270
    DT Editor says:

    Nice to see E. Botha being moderated, sir. We just can’t seem to shake her off.

    Like

    • 282
      Ewanme says:

      LMFAO Ed !!!!

      I’ve got me own entry in the Censorship Until Nothin Transmogrifies (Hunt) machine , darlin x ,

      Great !!!! *yaaaawwwwn*

      E x .

      Like

  41. 273
    Anonymous says:

    Amused by the UKIP and Eurosceptic position on all this. We can have a free trade deal if we exercise sufficient will power. Free trade was never on offer all that available is the EU. UKIP are liars but nothing new there. Cast Iron Cameron’s Sovereignty bill interest’s me though. Vesting Sovreignty in Westminster seems a very alien concept to a Scot. We hold our Sovereignty in the Scottish people. If maybe sounding a bit too Braveheart ish. I think thats why we fear the EU much less. As to the general Eurosceptic fixation with referendums why are theirs good and Scots ones bad? If the nation state is dead after Lisbon as they claim why are they so against us in Scotland having those powers? They can’t have it both ways.

    Like

    • 287
      (very) Cross of St George says:

      You can have one when all the oil’s gone

      Like

      • 304
        Anonymous says:

        That’l be next year then. Will Hannans local referendum campaign apply to Scotland? We should be told.

        Like

    • 365
      Mongrel says:

      You can have one now, as long as you promise to take all your lying incompetent thieving politicians with you. And by the way, all your oil money, from 1969 onwards, has been swallowed up by your disastrous banks with their Braveheart psychoses.

      Like

  42. 274
    It's all Balls says:

    The Frog’s retracted

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8345199.stm

    BUT

    The last sentence is a cracker

    He added: “No-one is going to steal the sovereignty of the UK without the approval of the British people.”

    Hmmmm. Does this mean that the EU believe that our sovereignty is up for grabs some time in the future?

    Are some of the more extreme views posted here closer to the mark than many (including me) have hitherto given credence to?

    Like

  43. 290
    Fees Office Clerk says:

    Explain to me why the British public can be bothered to punish Cameron for yesterday’s announcements when they let Gorgon McSnot get away with fucking blue murder over the Lisbon Treaty?

    Like

  44. 299
  45. 307
    rob p says:

    do you still want a referendum on Lisbon and the EU ?
    Sign This Petition asking Cameron for one

    http://www.gopetition.co.uk/petitions/referendum-on-repatriation-of-powers-from-the-eu-to-westminster/signatures.html

    Like

  46. 313
    Roger says:

    Where are those Fookin Euro-skeptics hiding?
    Still in the bloody cupboard sucking cameroons ballsac.

    Come out and lets get stuck in !

    Like

  47. 317
    Engineer says:

    O/T, but interesting.

    Report on PM programme a few minutes ago. Seems a few months ago, a certain G. Broon announced that the government’s economic policies had saved 500,000 jobs. Seems that the Treasury briefing on which that statement was based has been published, and whilst complex and nuanced, the briefing says between 250,000 and 450,000 jobs had been saved.

    When asked by the Beeboids how they got to 500,000, government spokesmen said “we rounded up”.

    Oh, dear – government caught fiddling the figures again….

    Like

  48. 319
    Mr Plum says:

    Le Projet de l’ Europe

    Is that a new budget airline

    Like

  49. 321
    new management says:

    Dan Hannah: (1941)
    I dislike the invasion of Russia, but I still support Uncle Adolf.
    Yeh whateva… grow some balls and join UKIP.

    The tory party is pro-europe, the £ will be next, and whats the cast iron giant going to do next. “Lock” him self in a euro portacabin?

    Like

  50. 325
    Minekiller says:

    This EU stuff is fantastic. Look, simple plan. Tories win next GE with maj of around say 75…Dave then does the decent thing and sends Europe Jacqui Smith, Harriet Harman, the Balls-Cooper gruesome twosome and others to Europe as Commissioners or whatever else he can find. Then holds referendum, 65% vote to get out of EU. UK leaves EU, meantime Millbollox and the rabble from Browns cesspit government are marooned in a Europe that they aren’t even qualified to be ‘citizens’ in. Milliband is hardly going to be awarded a Polish passport is he? I doubt mortgage fraudster Jowell is likely to be welcomed as a citizen of Italy.

    So….we get out of Europe and get rid of the incompetent Liberal-Fascists who have spent 12 years destroying the country, ruining the economy, waging illegal war and committing demographic terrorism against the people of Britian.

    Like

  51. 336
    THE THIRD ROUNDEL says:

    Dan Hannan and his `plan` both need a higher Tory profile – then we might be able to help positively.

    Like

  52. 340
    Ratsniffer says:

    I can tell you one immutable fact: if Dan were the leader taking the tories into the next general election, they would have a huge resounding victory – labour would be reduced to such a pathetic low vote that they would not only be humiliated, they would be total history.

    Dan speaks the language of ordinary people, he has passion, he has vision, and above all he stands up for this country and it’s interests.

    Like

    • 345
      THE THIRD ROUNDEL says:

      Absolutely right.

      Like

      • 406
        Susie says:

        Although I’d probably be in my dotage, it would be good to go out with Dan at the helm, we’d be in safe hands. He loves his country.

        Like

        • 412
          Cast Iron Cam says:

          He’ll be too late. By the time he sees himself anywhere near power the middle class Anglos will have given up waiting and left for the New World and their places back-filled with the followers of Islam. There will be no interest in devolving power to the people then – it will all be about whether women should be banned from divorce and whether gay sex should be illegal.

          Like

    • 354
      Nick Shortarzy says:

      I thought he was a bit too quiet, and slightly odd as a character. Neither of which should really stop him from doing many the things a politician should be able to do.

      But he doesnt shout “leader” … he lacks the required bullshit and spin to do that properly.

      Like

    • 372
      Anonymous says:

      I like Dan but he looks and sounds like an effete, balding twin of Matthew Parris. Vote winner with the great unwashed he aint!

      Like

  53. 341
    THE THIRD ROUNDEL says:

    If Dave Cameron insists that Tory European policy is now set for `at least` the next Parliament we surely need to know the specifics of the policy. Dan Hannan will hopefully tell us what his plan is so that it can be promoted abd influence Tory policy. There are many willing to help!

    Like

  54. 350
    Madine Dotties is batshit insane says:

    3,000 took part in illegal rave, claims Nadine Dorries MP

    The Mid Bedfordshire MP said the youths were playing loud music and taking ecstasy all night, while they had no access to water at the Wavendon Heath site in Bedfordshire.

    “We have 3,000 kids taking ecstasy with no water and a kid could die any moment. They’re still arriving in droves and there’s no safety here at all, there are no toilets, there are no facilities for them”, she said.

    “There’s no safety here at all, there are no toilets, there are no facilities for them.”

    She criticised the police for failing to act decisively.

    The rave is believed to have started at about 3am on Sunday and was eventually stopped by police in the afternoon.

    Police later estimated that the number of ravers was between 200 and 450.

    A spokesman said: “We had some intelligence to suggest that a rave was planned in the vicinity of Milton Keynes/Woburn but information was too vague for us to act initially.

    “At the point where we became aware of the location of the rave, at about 0200 GMT, it was under way with above 200 people present.

    “Given the danger of trying to move people, some in an intoxicated state, near to a quarry in the dark and wet, it was decided it was safer not to attempt to move them but to monitor the situation.”

    She added that there had only been three noise complaints up until 6am.

    Like

    • 356
      Madine Dotties is batshit insane says:

      Hahahahaha!

      It apears Mad Nads is somewhat in opposition to her bestest bud Mr Fawkes views on Raves but at least she’s not one of the piggies.

      Oh that’s right she most definitely is.

      “Kelly doesn’t know what he is talking about!” said Mad Nads on all the News networks the other day yet not a peep about that here. Odd ? No, not odd, what’s the word… predictable.

      They could discus it over their next publicity stunt to distract from her troughing legal “action”.

      Like

    • 357
      Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

      Shit. It aint 1990 is it? 200? bloody pathetic.

      I must admit though. I never went to a rave. I was always too pissed.

      Like

  55. 352
    Sir William Waad says:

    I’m sorry to say that when we picked all the pieces of Master Baiter out of the hay bale, they oozed towards each other and coalesced into a new MB. Sorry – he’s back. There were one or two bits left over and these appear to include the ‘sense gland’ but it is very tiny and I’m sure he won’t miss it.

    Like

  56. 378
    lolol says:

    PoliticBetting.com has a new YouGov poll out.

    Like

  57. 391
    Cameroon (Kraftwerk) EuroExpress says:

    In Vienna we sit – ib late night Cafe….
    straight connection
    T.E.E</

    Like

  58. 407
    Osama the Nazarene says:

    The Plan is an excellent book well worth reading. Dan Hannan is a principled guy and deserves success in his project.

    Like

  59. 411
    Longer Memory says:

    Just remind him about ‘subsidiarity’, which was the buzz word at the time of the Cecchini Report in the 1980′s.

    Then remind him which party removed power from local councils. I’ll give you a clue – it was led by a woman whose surname started with a ‘T’. Labour doesn’t have a monopoly on centralising power and stuff its citizens. (Isn’t that why education is so bad – so we are unable to think for ourselves?)

    PS It’s referendA.

    Like

  60. 414
    Cast Iron Cam says:

    Yeah great plan, Dan the Man. You’ll end up with Sharia law in Bradford in no time. In fact across practically the whole of the Midlands.

    By the time this moron gets anywhere near power Turkey will already be in the EU and we will have let another 5million followers of Islam into the UK, with another 6 million raised by the 3million already here. That’s nearly 15million adult followers of Islam here by 2030, all of whom will vote for some Islamofacist party. At the same time of the 40million Anglo Saxons still leaving here today, 10 million will have seent the writing on the wall, realise the main parties are making things worse rather than better in their eagerness to capture the immigrant vote and will have pissed off to Oz. The 20 million adult Anglo Saxons still remaining will split their vote between the two main parties in the traditional fashion leaving the Islamists to clean up. Dan the Man will never get to see power, let alone use it.

    I’ve got a better plan and since it doesn’t involve our archaic political parties actually standing up against Islamofacism it is far more likely to succeed. Once my kids leave home in 10 years time I’m off to live in Barcelona and I ain’t coming back.

    Like

  61. 435
    JR says:

    Interesting!!

    Dan the Man to replace Cam???

    At least you might be able to trust what he tells you unlike the U Bend Boy Dave!!!

    Like

  62. 443
    Gordon Brown says:

    Life is a bowl of cherries.

    Like


Seen Elsewhere

Even Ed’s Friends Call Him ‘Bad Luck Magnet’ | Mail
BBC: It Was Guido Wot Won It | MediaGuido
Nick Robinson’s Britain First Selfie | Metro
Dyson: Leave German Dominated EU, Join EFTA |
How UKIP Won Rochester | Seb Payne
Labour’s Islington Problem | Harry Phibbs
Ed Lost More Than a By-Election | Labour Uncut
Labour the Biggest Losers in Rochester | Speccie
Thornberry a Gift to Farage | Nick Wood
Is Left Finally Turning Against EU? | Dan Hannan
Labour Votes Going Green | Guardian


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Ralph Miliband on the English…

“The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world.”



Left on Left says:

The lefties are attacking because the panellist is a millionaire and lives in a London home worth upwards of two million. Someone had best tell them he’s called Ed Miliband.


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