October 9th, 2009

Change You Can Believe In?

ready-for-changeReflecting on Cameron’s speech it strikes Guido that it had some good themes, particularly the attack on Big Government; “government got too big, promised too much and pretended that it had all the answers” and the little reported promise of a return to sound money policies.   The emphasis on the family unit as the essential foundation of society, the emphasis on lower taxes for the lower paid and the education reforms which are the most exciting manifesto promise from the Tories, all sound good.

What is a little unconvincing is the idea that in government the Tories will roll back Big Government, policy after policy is statist; the Tories are proposing 17 new quangos, threatening to put up taxes and devoid of privatisation proposals. When the leader of the LibDems is sounding more right-wing on taxes and implementing “savage spending cuts” than the leader of the Tories, you wonder who is really offering real change?

Prime example of the Tory credibility deficit: it was George Osborne who committed the Conservatives to match Labour’s spending plans until 2011, to howls of outrage from many of his supporters – Tim Montgomerie was very vocal that this was a big mistake, John Redwood was diplomatically unimpressed.  Now the Tories decry Gordon Brown’s past overspending and his fiscal recklessness in every speech. Do they think we have forgotten that it was they who supported those very same spending plans?  They were asked repeatedly at the time what would happen if there were no “proceeds of growth” to share and ducked the question.  The Cameroons have bought into the Finkelstein argument – which is entirely political – that it is expensive to be radical, that it is nigh on impossible to dramatically change the course of the ship of state, that  across the board tax cuts are politically and economically too difficult.  So much so that these aspirations are hardly voiced.  If you don’t aim for the stars you won’t even get off the ground in  government, the civil service and vested interests will thwart pragmatists every time.

Except in education policy the rhetoric of change is not matched by commitments to really radical change.  The rhetorical onslaught on Big Government is not matched by a commitment to shrink the proportion of GDP swallowed by the state.  In some parts of Britain, particularly in Scotland and Wales, the state sector is of Soviet proportions to the local economy, with public sector employment dwarfing the productive sector of the economy.  That has to change, Cameron half-quoted Martin Luther King; “When you are right, you cannot be too radical…” – so offer radical change.


467 Comments

  1. 1
    Road_Hog says:

    What about the vote on the Lisbon Treaty?

    • 5
      Like father like son, Like Blair to his Heir. says:

      Dave is taking the piss with his ready for change slogan. Nothings gonna change, Dave wouldn’t recognise change even if he had a pocket full of it.

      • 21
        W.W. says:

        While agreeing with what you say Guido, I personally liked the overall tone of what was being said.

        I like many have my doubts about Cameron and his gang, however I am prepared to give him the chance to show us what he is made of.

        However this support is not unconditional and I will be watching like a hawk.

        Lets face it he can’t possibly be any worse than the shower we have had in power for the last 12 years.

        W.W.

        • 28
          Anonymous says:

          Actually the shower we have just been governed by started off OK but came off the rails about one third of the way in. For the first couple of years even Gordon was a good chancellor, then suddenly he started spending like a mad man.

          A hung parliament with a ConLib coalition may not be such a bad thing.

          • Road_Hog says:

            Gordon was a good Chancellor, even for one moment, he raided private pensions and fucked them up from almost day one.

          • Max says:

            He was forced to commit to tory spending plans for the first two years; it was a manifesto pledge demanded by the city and business in return for their support.

            Even B’Liar would not have got in had he let the truth about McDoom out of the box pre-election.

          • W.W. says:

            Actually the shower we have in power now have allways been useless fuckers, and where allways going to fuck everything up.
            As has been mentioned they where only ok when the stuck to Conservative spending plans, but that was never going to last.
            Don’t forget the Ecclestone incident which happened pretty much straight away, and every thing else was dwon hill from there.

            W.W.

          • Fred Goodwin's Duck Palace says:

            Every Politician who promises to roll back the state or get rid of Big Government always ends up expanding it hugely

            Count on it

          • Jo says:

            “For the first couple of years even Gordon was a good chancellor”

            That is simply not good enough.

          • penwen says:

            Yes they stared of ok because they inhertited a healthy economy, did take them long to get through it though.

        • 107
          Bill O'Bong says:

          To call Cyclops’ insane mob a shower is unfair on hard-working plumbing.

        • 214
          Vote vote vote for Jacqui says:

          I have a Power Shower at home,it works exceedingly well.

        • 227
          "gordon is depressing", Obama says:

          I think Gordon is more of a Severe depression than a light shower.

        • 313
          Churchill's Cattleprod says:

          “Lets face it he can’t possibly be any worse than the shower we have had in power for the last 12 years.”

          Wow, that’s almost exactly (bar the 12 years) what was said about Tony Blair taking over from Major’s administration and what a revelation THAT turned out to be.

          What I would have liked to have heard over the conference was something uniformly positiive about reducing the public sector to 3/5ths of its current state, something sincere about MP’s corruption and accountability and something very proactive about Europe and the Euro. Instead we just got Mr Cameron and the homunculus’ flannel flapped in our faces.

          • Without Gordon Brown as Chancellor and the PM, they might have been right. But Brown has proven himself to be utterly useless.

            If a crisis arises, he runs away and hides. Useless.

        • 426
          Furious Capitalist says:

          Cameron is a bulls Knacker. He is intent on sending more troops to Afghanistan to make the campaign a bigger fudge than it would be if we just pulled out. No wonder they will have to Tax us more to pay for the fucking mess. Bliar started this and I thought Cameron would have the brains not to follow on, but he is taking it hook line and sinker. Obama will push the Yanks into even more dept while chasing the ellusive Osama who by the way is in the middle east plotting his next attack. I dont think he even thought that his little attack in the US would cost the world their economic future. You heard it hear first, This country is bankrupt and by the time the Government overregulate and Tax the energy companies so they have to put our Energy up AGAIN !! That must be the plot to lower CO2 emmissions. Put all British business to the wall with too high energy costs. I can hear the doors closing now. Well done to the Public school boys of the left and right who could ONLY organise a piss up in a brewery and no more.

      • 25
        Micky says:

        With such amazing foresight you should do the Lottery mate, and the stock market and the gee-gees – then you could retire as a millionaire to the Bahamas and give up your trolling career.

      • 174
        ExEng says:

        Cameron has to talk to both the knowledgeable and the brain washed. It has been 12 years of brainwashing that has put the idea of debt is good into this society.

        Taxes and Debt are the same thing. For every debt has to be paid by each person in this country. Some more than others!

        Billions and Trillions do not mean anything to the voters most can not even imagine them. What is the physically size of 1 trillion litres of petrol?

        The key is to start expressing debt as a monthly charge like rent, mortgage or tax.

        What would be the council tax increase if all the debt interest was placed on it?

        What would be the cost to each tax paying person if it was equally distributed to just them?

        How much less social security money would you get a week if the interest on the debt was shared by every one living on tax credits and state money?

        Yes, it is a race to not frighten the short term “addict” voters into thinking one party will cut less than another. But it is also a time to shock the nation out of its brainwashing by showing the stupidity of the current situation.

        • 210

          I favour a “socialist idiocy” tax, we roll up all the collectivists debt and make people pay the interest equally.

          • Nick says:

            Doomsday book listing all the debts.

            Labour tax to appear on all payslips showing your contribution to paying off the debt.

            Nick

          • Kevin says:

            Sounds good to me.

          • Sad, but true says:

            In Germany they pay a solidarity tax to pay for the modernisation and restructuring of the former DDR. (former Workers’ and Peasants’ Paradise).

            It appears as such on wage slips and as a deduction against interest in every savings account.

            We should have a similar entry along the lines of: “Pay off Labour Debt deduction”.

            It would make things perfectly clear.

          • ExEng says:

            Sad, but true: Try getting a pay slip in the US.

            I used to get about 15 line items on individual project funding taxes etc.

        • 233
          Dave S says:

          Official government expenditure for 2009 as per the ONS about £640 billion (and rising), government receipts about £500 billion and falling.

          Government borrowing this year heading toward £225 billion to fill the gap and service all the ‘off balance sheet’ items. The ‘official’ national debt about £800 billion, ‘true’ debt about three times this figure.

          Each person in the UK owes £13,000 if you believe NuLab’s figures, £38,000 if you don’t.

          • ExEng says:

            Thanks, but theoretical interest on debt only.

            Also per tax payer, per social aid receiver, per household.
            If you can not identify yourself, the numbers are meaningless.

            It has to look like a rent increase or a tax increase or a monthly standing order for a select few. Meaningless capital sums are how we got in this mess as people borrowed on their house price without knowing the implications to their future pay packet.

          • Chump says:

            Also meaningless without a time-frame and interest rate at which the debt has to be repaid.

      • 356
        Archie says:

        Looks as though the “party faithful” have swallowed Cameron’s bullshit wholesale…………again! When will we learn?

      • 372

        Ravings of a Brownite? Yeah! I’ll really back Brown! I’ll pretend I think David Cameron is just like Blair! Tee hee hee!”

    • 7
      Scenic says:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/6274961/Lisbon-Treaty-Czech-president-Vaclav-Klaus-sets-new-condition.html

      Mr Klaus, who has been stalling on signing the new European Union treaty for months, told the EU’s Swedish presidency yesterday he “wishes to add a footnote” to the document before he gives his final approval.

      The latest delay to the treaty’s progress emerged in Prague even as Poland said it would sign off on the treaty on Saturday…

    • 58
      There is no freedom to change in the EU says:

      How can we possibly have change, when it is Brussels that mostly controls what we can say and do?

      We can’t even say who should come to this country to live and work
      How can we fund & plan a health service that is open to 700,000,000?
      Same goes for all our social services, thy are open to the rest of Europe.
      Anyone in Europe even landlocked countries can fish OUR waters.
      Even our new Supreme court is subserviant to the European court.
      Very soon the Queen will have to bow down to unelected president Blair.
      Yellow jackets, hats and trosers have become the European H&S uniform that must be worn by all before they can go outside.

      There will be no change unless we leave the political Union with Europe and reinstate our sovereignty.

      • 138
        resurgemus says:

        The Labour Govt. did not put the protections in on immigration which Germany and France did. Hence UK had 1million plus immigrants from E. Europe and the other the other countries had very little.

        European citizens have the right to the NHS ( not that they see that as a worldbeater ) and UK citizens living in the EU can access other state’s healthcare. There are several million UK citizens currently living in the EU, nmany of them bloggers on this site. We have entered a reciprocal arrangement.

        Fishing our numpties gave it away.

        European Court see above.

        Mrs Windsor signed her powers away and could have demanded the people were consulted at any stage. It’s what she’s paid for.

        H&S bollocks is down to the way our government chooses to interpret European directives. You do not get anywhere near the same level of crap in France and Germany an people look at you when you tell them and say “but that’s bollocks.”

        Labour make Europe worse and the sooner we are rid of Brown the better.

        • 194
          South of the M4 says:

          Absolutely correct. Under both HS&E and environmental matters the UK gold-plates EU legislation, often before the infrastructure is in place – and then uses punitive taxation to gain compliance. Our continental friends adopt the legislation as a target and work toward it, government assisting business. The result is that UK business costs rise above those of our European competitors.
          Stupidity that has and will continue to cost jobs, and future tax revenue.

        • 385
          Archie says:

          Spot-on re: Mrs. Windsor!

      • 460
        Sam says:

        This si the simple truth, the incoming Govt will be impotent even before Lisbon takes effect; afgterwords it will be impotent to govern and with no remedy to rectify that.

        I agree I like the tenor of the Cameron’s speech and agree with his priorities, save for one important thing: unless he repatriates powers from Brussels and gets rid of the Human Rights law, he will be without the power or means to change anything. As it is unelected bureaucrats and unelected judges have the power to override anything he decides.

        I don’t blame Cameron for declining to spell out policy now, since Labour has repeatedly filched any policy the Tories come up with which seems popular with the public. the GE camapign will be time enough to unveil the detail… Assuming there is sone.

        Gordon when he first became Chancellor had sworn to follow the Tories’ spending policies for the whole of NuLabour’s first term, and he did so! – which is why he didn’t make too many God-awful mistakes. As soon as he started following his own policies he came off the rails.

        Incomrehensibly Osborne promised a few months ago to do the same! ie follow Labour spending plans for 2 years – a promise which will come back to haunt him.

    • 104
      Bollox to the EU says:

      Road_Hog says:
      October 9, 2009 at 10:07 am
      What about the vote on the Lisbon Treaty?

      I suggest you ask Labour who are in power rather the the Tories who are not

      fucking simples

      • 187
        Poles Apart says:

        resurgemus says: “and UK citizens living in the EU can access other state’s healthcare. ”

        Err as a resident of France I can tell you that i do not have free healthcare.

        I know a Polish woman who moved to London two years ago for the free healthcare, housing and benefits she gets for herself and her son. She believes that she is entitled to them for some reason, and who can blame her?

        What immigrant is going to chose any country other than the UK to settle in when there’s so much free stuff on offer?

      • 265
        Carol says:

        ditto!

      • 267
        Kevin says:

        Spot on!

        • 294
          Euro standardisation says:

          But there is no getting around the fact that real change is NOT possible while we are controlled by Brussels. Countries like Tesco stores will all look the same wherever you go in Europe.

    • 204
      Dave's first tough decision says:

      Now what is Dave going to do with the Royal Mail?

      One thing is for sure Gordon will leave him with a right mess here

      • 247

        Its marked for privatization. See Ken Clarke’s speech.
        This will be introduced very early on and labour have to go along with it as it was their idea.

        • 284
          Oh Lordy lordy says:

          As Dave doesn’t know much about delivering mail, will he make a postie a lord and give him a place in his cabinet like he is doing with Dannatt?

          • Phil O'Pastree says:

            The Post Office will be privatised, Defence will remain under government control. So your comment is invalid.

    • 331
      Piggy Bank Cam says:

      I think you will find that Dave will be like his piggy bank. Half full with small change.

    • 342
      Black Muslim Lesbian says:

      what about more Muslim lesbians on the BBC please

      http://londonmuslims.blogspot.com/

    • 353
      Canute says:

      Something has certainly changed in the country though.

      That is two weeks on the trot where a Question time audience has attacked a Labour minister.

      Yvette Balls looked rattled as she came to realise that the tide has turned and the people have rumbled her corrupt government.

    • 374
      Obama declares Lunar War says:

      Crikey. Just hours after being the Nobel peace prize Obama goes and Bombs the moon

    • 466
  2. 2
    "Gordon is a second rate Chump". Dave says:

    • 34
      Tonto Balair says:

      Ahahahaha. Very good

      • 57

        Meanwhile, the Blairs have just bought a £1.3 Million home, in cash, for their son. Bringing their property empie to £11 Million

        I kid you not

        • 69
          shelling-out says:

          It sticks in the craw a bit when you think that we probably funded part of that.

          No wonder they’re both smiling.

          • Ctesibius says:

            Part = all

          • £139.50 pa for crappy cookery programmes says:

            Just seen the Satanist Blair together with Slotgob and the Queen (Liz, not Mandy) attending some service at St. Pauls. The child-killing Satanist Blair appears to be trying to raise his public profile ahead of becoming our unelected and unwanted President in a few months’ time.

  3. 3
    Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

    I think they should set up committees to look into the red tape and quangos.

    Oh look italics have gone

    • 12
      Steve Expat says:

      Sounds like one from Yes, Minister.

      We shall set up a Department of Spending Reduction, with a Secretary of State working alongside three Ministers and a team of 200 led by a Permenant Secretary, 10 Directors and 50 Senior Managers – all dedicated to eliminating government waste and bureaucracy!

    • 23
      Anonymous says:

      Ken Clarke actually said that in his speech, I’m surprised the press did not pick up on that.

      • 310
        Piss Porgan says:

        Actually he said “Star Chamber”. Frankly I can’t wait to see Simon Cowell and Cheryl Cole get stuck into reducing red tape, more riveting reality TV for our Saturday nights…

        • 461
          You Couldn't Make It Up says:

          Great idea for a reality show – REALITY at last! – all the public sector employees have to come on city by city to try to justify their “jobs’ and salaries, and we get to vote on whether they keep them! I bet the whole country would tune in ha ha

  4. 4
    Man With a Very Hot Bladder says:

    “Modern Conservatives” look like “New Labour Lite” to me.

    Since 1997, the New Labour government has been working to two agendas. Firstly, the open agenda as laid out in their manifestos and secondly, their hidden agenda.

    The objective of the hidden agenda of New Labour is the creation of a Communitarian society controlled by the EU collective.

    In order to achieve this objective, New Labour has been running a sort of parallel government made up of QUANGOs and fake charities. A fake charity is legally a charity but effectively operates as a government department, receiving a substantial amount of funding directly or indirectly from government and operating as a government department.

    If the Conservatives really want to change things, they need to get rid of the QUANGOs and fake charities.

    • 11
      Charity begins at home. says:

      Even the Eden pleasure dome is a charity, Alton Towers will be a charity next.

    • 30
      Tonto Balair says:

      common purpose

    • 76
      ExEng says:

      It is the fake charities that pay bonuses on a monopoly grant scheme that really upset me. Especially when they use the grant money as a way into peoples houses and then demand extra payments outside the grant.

    • 211
      £139.50 pa for crappy cookery programmes says:

      The only “real change” will come from pulling out of this cash-guzzling EUropean superstate. That’s the only objective any politician worth a vote has to commit to.

  5. 6
    Billy Blofeld says:

    Personally I’m worried about Politicisation of The Armed Forces.

    Imagine if Blair and Brown had political control over the armed forces over the last 12 years? A police state would be the least of our problems.

    We need success / exit criteria for both the War Cabinet and Dannatt’s appointment.

    • 44
      FrankFisher says:

      well of course they had bloody political control – do you think the army went off and attacked Serbia, Iraq and Afghanistan off their own bat? Bloody silly post…

      • 60
        Grumpy Old Man says:

        As practically every Chief Constable has been picked because he inclines to the Left, We already live in a Police State.

      • 192
        Billy Blofeld says:

        Under Blair and Brown – I always trusted the Armed Forces to stick two fingers up and call them cocks when necessary. They got on with their duty, however, stupid the mission (Iraq) – but you could always trust the armed forces to call a spade a spade irrespective of politics.

        We have already spent much of the last 12 years in a politicised Police State. Iain Blair was more of a politician than a senior Policeman. The wanker lobbied and gave political support for the 90 detention without charge policy for instance.

        I’m warning that the Tories lay themselves open to the charges of politicising the Army – of turning generals into clones of that Police arsehole Iain Blair.

        They need exit criteria in order to avoid this accusation.

        • 414
          The Beast of Clerkenwell says:

          I can assure you that soldiers tend to be “conservative”
          British people have nothing to fear from the British amy.
          Id welcome squaddies patrolling my neighborhood cracking some skulls or shooting a few scum bags
          Far more trust worthy than the police.

  6. 8
    On Harman Pride's Dossier says:

    Cameron mentioned learning from the mistakes of Blair (not using your mandate when you’ve got it) and Brown (judging everything for political gain only), but he omitted (understandably given the audience) the other PM whose mistakes he intends to avoid – Ted Heath.

    In his Speccie interview, he mentioned how Heath tried to do everything at once and ended up with too big a load to shift. Thatcher had virtually the same aims, particularly in terms of the unions, but she took them apart piece by piece.

    I know we all want Cameron to fix all the things that are broken, but we’ve got to accept that he’ll do a better job if he tackles it a piece at a time. Take the NHS vs Education; if you keep spending cash on the big bloated socialist monster, while at the same time setting up a for-profit dynamic and cheap education system, then the argument for doing the same to health just gets stronger. Try and do both at once and you’ll alienate the public who “#welovethenhs”.

    • 74
      Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

      If they are going to take their time, they should in the mean time make small changes in education that save money, and won’t be missed much. Politicians of all sides do not think through whether their great ideas are going to work. They spend so much time kidding us, that they kid themselves too.

      It has to take a bit of blinding ideology to not notice this: The only people who want to set up their own schools are nutters.

      • 350
        On Harman Pride's Dossier says:

        Sure about that? Try having an autistic kid that the LEA insists should be in a mainstream school, no matter how inappropriate it is and how miserable the kid ends up. Now find 10 or 12 other people in the same boat in the same area, and spend your combined 50-60 grand on a small room somewhere and a decent teacher to teach your small group.

        Doesn’t sound like nutters to me, sounds like the dreaded word “choice.”

        • 379
          Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

          Good luck but that doesnt sound big enough, and the numbers don’t seem to add up.

          • On Harman Pride's Dossier says:

            10 x £5,000 = £50,000

            With such a small group, teaching mixed age groups would be no problem for a decent teacher, especially the sort of teacher you could attract with a £40,000 salary. And the parents wouldn’t want to make a profit – the attraction for them would be a school that really suited their children.

            Google “small schools” and prepare to be surprised about how common (and successful) this setup is around the world, especially for AEN children. In this country it’s restricted to a few private institutions that are all properly charitable, and parents who make sacrifices to afford their upkeep. Now, instead of those taxpayers being forced to spend their own money, take £5,000 away from the LEA that has let them down and use that instead.

          • Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

            You’ve missed out all sorts of normal costs there. Not least of which is National insurance. Is the building and cleaning of it all free then? Any sickness/leave would wipe you out too.

            My original point was incorrect if people do have a very good reason to make such a school that other people haven’t. Sorry, I did wish you luck, but I cannot see how it can fly.

          • Samantha says:

            Expatriates all over Europe have done this for years, eg there have been 3 or 4 English speaking schools in ibiza over the last 30 years I’ve been going there (I worked in one in the 70s). Most of the kids have turned out very well-balanced and well-educated. Most have been successful in their chosen careers, whether big business or the arts etc etc. The schools were viable because they spent the fees on good teachers, above infrastructure, and let them do the job free of ‘targets’ and all that nonsense and PC interference you get in State schools.

  7. 9
    DZ says:

    Futurology is such fun, and costs nothing.

    • 85
      Grumpy Old Man says:

      I agree, but it’s not nearly as much fun as taking apart the 12 year-long car crash that is Labour’s legacy.

  8. 10
    tat says:

    It was a vision, not a policy list

    Just get Brown out

    - £22,500 of debt for every child born in Britain
    - 111 tax rises from a government that promised no tax rises at all
    - The longest national tax code in the world
    - 100,000 million pounds drained from British pension funds
    - Gun crime up by 57%
    - Violent crime up 70%
    - The highest proportion of children living in workless households anywhere in Europe
    - The number of pensioners living in poverty up by 100,000
    - The lowest level of social mobility in the developed world
    - The only G7 country with no growth this year
    - One in six young people neither earning nor learning
    - 5 million people on out-of –work benefits
    - Missing the target of halving child poverty
    - Ending up with child poverty rising in each of the last three years instead
    - Cancer survival rates among the worst in Europe
    - Hospital-acquired infections killing nearly three times as many people as are killed on the roads
    - Falling from 4th to 13th in the world competitiveness league
    - Falling from 8th to 24th in the world education rankings in maths
    - Falling from 7th to 17th in the rankings in literacy
    - The police spending more time on paperwork than on the beat
    - Fatal stabbings at an all-time high
    - Prisoners released without serving their sentences
    - Foreign prisoners released and never deported
    - 7 million people without an NHS dentist
    - Small business taxes going up
    - Business taxes raised from among the lowest to among the highest in Europe
    - Tax rises for working people set for after the election
    - The 10p tax rate abolished
    - And the ludicrous promise to have ended boom and bust
    - Our gold reserves sold for a quarter of their worth
    - Our armed forces overstretched and under-supplied
    - Profitable post offices closed against their will
    - One of the highest rates of family breakdown in Europe
    - The ‘Golden Rule’ on borrowing abandoned when it didn’t fit
    - Police inspectors in 10,Downing Street
    - Dossiers that were dodgy
    - Mandelson resigning the first time
    - Mandelson resigning the second time
    - Mandelson coming back for a third time
    - Bad news buried
    - Personal details lost
    - An election bottled
    - A referendum denied

    • 14
      Willie Hague says:

      I wish I’d said that, titfer!

      • 39
        Master Baiter says:

        Unemployment returning to levels last seen under a Conservitude administration.

        • 54
          Micky says:

          Bullshit, remember

          LABOUR ISN’T WORKING

          well

          IT’S GOT WORSE

        • 71
          South of the M4 says:

          Indeed. Emulating the last time the Tories inherited a shit load of crap.
          Unemployment lags, therefore you will be right – although I suspect not for the reasons you believe. Ho hum.

        • 72
          Engineer says:

          Indeed it is, young Baiter – it is returning to high levels now, thanks to Labour policies. Gawd knows what the figure will be come the election, and it will probably continue to rise for about two years, before levelling and slowly falling. Seems to be what usually happens.

        • 79
          shelling-out says:

          That’s right – and unemployment will be higher than those levels by next year.

          • Bill O'Bong says:

            Of COURSE unemployment will rise. NO-ONE buys ANYTHING made in Britain. Even bloody string beans are flown in from Kenya, where children are malnourished. The middle-classes line their drives with Audis and BMWs and put their Chinese-made clothes in German and Korean washing-machines and complain about the bewildering choice of foreign takeaways, which force small British restaurants to close.

            Even the lap-dancing clubs are mostly owned by Koreans. The Frogs drive Frog cars. The Eyeties drive Italian wheels. The Krauts drive German and the Japs drive their own wheels. We’re fucked – apart from all the politically correct wankers sitting on stupid, pointless quangos and the tens of thousands of girls in their teens having rows of children by different blokes and securing their financial future right up to the grave – all paid for by middle-class stealth taxes.

          • Four-eyed English Genius says:

            It would be even higher now without all of the fiddled statistics!

        • 103
          Max says:

          MB that is nonsense re “tory unemployment”; the stats do not compare like with like. If you get as close to like for like as you can get the figure now is far larger (and has been for years). If you double-check with ZNL HQ your response to that is that “the numbers in terms of population” are larger anyway and that is what causes the figures to be so.

          Stats is a complex subject, MB, you might need help on it from Alistair; or alternatively (because I think you will find you are not onto a winner here) maybe ask someone if you can go back to the subject of Dave’s combover.

          Just trying to help.

          • Master Baiter says:

            It’s more of a curtain now.
            Did you see it? Hysterical!
            Brown however has a fine full head of hair.
            And another thing, what is it with Dave Komodo’s upper lip?
            Very weird, honestly, basically there isn’t one.
            Enjoy

          • resurgemus says:

            MB

            funny how things move on.

            6 months ago your argument on Brown was his ” mega-intellect” now its his hair.

          • Master Baiter says:

            It’s more about Dave Komodo, lizard lips, flicking tongue and stupendous combover and his weird upper lip.
            The point that Brown’s intellect is better than Cameron’s is fair comment and accurate.

          • Max says:

            Point taken re hair, MB, but get McDoom to wash it and have it properly cut; he does look a slimy cnut you know, especially when he runs his dirty paw through it on PMQ.

          • Max says:

            And re McDoom’s “intellect” I have an original copy of Alternative Edinburgh here and feel suitably positioned to answer questions. I think my inverted commas around “intellect” will give you a clue as to my conclusions. Similarly with “Courage”.

        • 159
          udderly 'orrible says:

          Brown-out baiter.
          Go read the energy disaster report issued this morning, power blackout within 5 years thanks to climate change monkeys and Millitwat/Macmental ditherers. Well done again Liebour.

          • Master Baiter says:

            Ok, will do.
            Don’t forget the handling of ‘British Energy’ and the monstrously expensive problem with the decomissioning of nuclear power stations under who was it, oh yes that hero of Conservitudinism and Thatcher’s nemesis the former Deputy Dawg Michael no beard Heseltine.
            Anyhow nuclear power stations are rubbish and not economic because they make such an expensive mess. Prats who campaign for them are interested only in the plunder from constructing them. There isn’t private investment in them for a reason. They don’t pay. No doubt however as with the banks the losses will be socialised and the profits privatised.

          • Max says:

            Please update us, MB, in 20 years time as to what is powering your laptop if you have chosen to opt out on understandable grounds of using nuclear generated electricity. I have made a note in my diary.

            BTW lots of infrastructure “doesn’t pay” and history shows that those who pioneer and do pay for it go bust as when the railways were laid and more recently the channel tunnel built.

          • No to future power cuts says:

            If we are very lucky, we might be able to buy pebble-bed reactors from China by the thousand and avoid power cuts in the coming years. They need encouragement, and a big advance order could do the trick.

            Pebble-bed reactors are quite literally “walk-away safe”, which is an extremely useful feature for future UK operation at a time when the average age at which children’s intelligence begins to exceed that of a parrot is presently about 10 and rising rapidly.

            Because these reactors cannot melt down, they do not need huge and expensive containment vessels and all the associated safety and monitoring systems. They can therefore be made quite small and Elfin friendly — just like their unit costs in comparison with what people think of as “a nuclear reactor”.

            So there is no need to plunder the country’s treasure to have one — or one hundred. Likewise they would obviate the procrastination entailed in having them from the economic and planning points of view.

            Once in scale production, they could be ordered in any quantity over-the-counter (to coin a phrase) to satisfy local needs and aspirations. Naturally, communities would need to show their aspirations are compatible with operating such a device — after all, these things are radioactive, and to that extent “dirty” — which might conceivably affect how warm it gets in predominantly layber voting areas of the country. But over time, affected areas should reduce, and hopefully can be eliminated altogether.

          • Engineer says:

            I believe Pebble Bed reactors were first developed in South Africa. Don’t necessarily accept all the hype – especially not “walk-away safety” – long experience tells me that things are never quite as simple or as rosy as some people paint them. That said, they are definitely not to be dismissed out of hand.

        • 231
          ExEng says:

          I think we can agree that there has been no party that over history that has consistently looked after this country properly. The worst offenders are the self-interested ideological leaders.

          But that is the issue; how do we find someone to vote for, that is not a self-interest junky to whom power WILL corrupt. Using party history does not solve that problem. We need to look at the people individually and their history.

          For example: Troughing is a good indication of the ability to self-justify aberrant behaviour.

          By the way Cameron should drop the “Modern” qualifier. He should not dissociate from the party he joined but instead emphasise the current team and broad ideas. Show that there is balance and open mindedness.

          Same as putting 100 drunk party animals in a street you will get extreme behaviour which WILL get worse the longer you leave them. In exactly the same way, put a few hundred polarized politicians in a building and you will get aberrant extreme behaviour after 1 term in office.

          What you need to do is show a “mix” with balance and control. Not a “new” or “modern”.

    • 18
      Steve Expat says:

      Well said tat – you’re finally starting to make sense after years of talking bollocks and abusing people here – well done!!

    • 19
      DZ says:

      Exactly, tat, – just get Brown out.

      • 125
        Great Granddad says:

        Brown is out; that for a certainty. Most inveterate labour voters will stay at home and Master Baiter doesn’t have enough mates to affect the issue.

        Who to go in? Cameron, without the shadow of an alternative; that for a certainty.

        How is Cameron to be jarred into having a backbone transplant? There lies the nub.

        How do we convert Cameron into the man that the people demand?

      • 134
        Dame Davina Pancake says:

        err, very good tat – almost as good as Mr Hague :)

    • 94
      Grumpy Old Man says:

      +++++PROLONGED STANDING OVATION++++++

    • 223
      Nick says:

      £22,500 of debt for every child born in Britain

      =====================

      Only if you aren’t going to pay any pensions what so ever

    • 242
      tat says:

      oi! naff off you slag and get your own monicker. there’s only one great thick as thieves and i’m it. this is your final warning. you have 20 seconds to comply or i will cave your skull in. end off. innit.

  9. 13
    rocknrolla says:

    Probably the best summary of the speech I’ve read.

    And you’re right. Some good themes, Polly Toynbee would have hated it since there was so much that was right, families, communities, churches, businesses – these will save us, not the government. What do we get – he praises surestart and the minimum wage – how about no inflation instead? And having the balls to make the argument.

    Ultimately this is Cameron’s failing – he fights entirely on the left’s ground, on their terms. Big government is bad…. because it encourages inequality etc. Big government is indeed bad but inequality is what separates us front ants and beavers. As pointed out, it might be difficult since two years ago Cameron was praising Blair/Brown and their almighty boom about to go bust.

    Yet there remains one 400lb gorilla in the room, not Professor Prescott or Eric Pickles… where is our fucking referendum?!

    • 248
      Mr Slater's Parrot says:

      SKRUUUUURRR-KK-HHH!!! (flutter) (thud) (ting) POLLYPOLLYPOLLY! BALDIE! A-AAAK!!! (tinkle) SMAKMYBITHCHUP!!!

  10. 15
    Snotty says:

    Barack Obama gets the Nobel Peace Prize.

    What the fuck?!

    • 22
      going mental says:

      its april the 1st ?

    • 24
      Steve Expat says:

      If he can get rid of most of the world’s nukes I suppose that’s a pretty peaceful start!

      • 92
        Armoured-Dinner-Jacket and the Late Kim Jong-Il says:

        Well he’s bloody not getting his paws on ours!

      • 110
        Max says:

        Shouldn’t it be about achievement, not aspiration? On the basis of aspiration they’ll be awarding Mcdoom one for Medicine on account of his aspiring to cure cancer.

    • 133
      Ctesibius says:

      Is it cos I is black?

    • 195
      Boneo says:

      I call for an end to world hunger

      There, I have the vision and dream. And potential to do it, who knows.

      So where is my prize? I don’t get one?? Does that mean you gave it to Obama because of his skin colour?!

      Seriously though – why does anyone care – it’s a meaningless prize, the global establishment love Obama, his nanny-state ideas, his UN love, support for bankers – so they were bound tor reward him. Means nothing.

    • 273
      slime monitor says:

      The Nobel Peace Prize couldn’t be more stultified after it was awarded to – of all people – Henry Kissinger. Anyone who knows anything of the man and his antics would know that he’s nothing about peace. Obama’s a worthy winner by comparison.

  11. 16

    Yes, some very good stuff …

  12. 20
    going mental says:

    Well gordon and labour 2/10

    dave and tories 7/10

    clegg and the lid dems will wait for there confrence

  13. 26
    Anonymous says:

    Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize. The world has gone completely mad.

    • 68
      nell says:

      gordon will be disappointed not have won it. After all he did pledge £1billion a year of our money for world education on Monday. That should have been enough to buy him the nomination .

    • 100
      Armoured-Dinner-Jacket and the Late Kim Jong-Il says:

      I reckon it’s compensation for being right royally rebuffed in Copenhagen.

      His polls, for other reasons mostly as prolonging and (deliberately?) destroying the US economy after a severe but not irrecoverable recession, are sunk.

    • 171
      Jumping the gun says:

      Bit premature of the Committee. The bloke has a zilch track record. Just verbal good intentions to date. Should wait until at least the first term is approaching its end and then, if intention is matched by results, that would be another matter.

  14. 27
    Tonto Balair says:

    Tat is right. If I’m honest my gut feeling is that to get ourselves making money it can only happen if we get the EU completely off our backs and also to have none but essential interference from all Government. We have to have the catylist to make Britons’ feel good. Everything is so repressed and depressing. They did touch upon this but I don’t believe they are sincere about it-especially with europe hanging over every policy and action. We can’t even have village fetes with bunting without H&S nazis. Adventures for young people are cursed by regulations and threats. We can’t run, we have to tread lightly. I wnt to a meeting of local villagers a few months back and we were told we could not use the tea making facilities in their little kitchen in case someone got hurt FFS. Give us our country back from politicians now! We can handle the risk ourselves. Same goes for Twacking a hoodie. Vote UKIP.

  15. 29
    The Underdoug says:

    Change You Can Believe In?

    No we can’t.

  16. 32
    I Hate The Heir to Blair! says:

    If you want genuinely radical right of centre change then don’t look to the Tories under this twat for it. Guess it’ll have to be UKIP gets my vote then.

    • 62
      nell says:

      They won’t win enough seats to be able to govern.

      If there was a big swing towards the LibDems and Independents and UKIP all it would do is deliver up a hung parliament or worse let gordon back in for another term.

    • 137
      Ctesibius says:

      UKIP = Labour, for all practical purposes

      • 143
        Tonto Balair says:

        Why? Please explain how UKIP = Labour Party

        • 236
          Steve Expat says:

          If enough people vote UKIP then Labour will undoubtedly be the next government.

          This election, let’s kill the Liebour party stone dead. Vote for whoever has the best chance of kicking the socialists out, even if you’re not a true blue Tory. Nothing could possibly be worse than five more years of what we have now.

          Next election, let’s make it a bit more interesting. A lot of fringe parties will be around by then, both on the left and the right of politics. Me, I’m leaning towards the English Democrats, look up the new Mayor of Doncaster for an example of what they stand for… http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/election/Shock-message-for-Government-as.5341413.jp

          • Swindon-Man says:

            Interesting, dont like the idea of another B-liar.

          • Steve Expat says:

            Swindon, that’s a target for the SNP more than UKIP I think. Rumour has been going round for a while that other parties might even help out the Nats in that seat. (4300 Tories and 5600 LDs in 2005, for example)

          • Steve Expat says:

            Whoops wrong thread

        • 349
          resurgemus says:

          the UKIP blogger at post 252 states explicitly that UKIP cost the conservatives 27 seats and helped keep Labour in power….

          ….who then went on to negotiate the Lisbon Treaty.

    • 205
      Psephologist says:

      UKIP won’t win a single seat.
      You read it here first.

      • 240
        Steve Expat says:

        They’ll win one, Fararge against Bercow with almost no-one else standing.

        Maybe also whoever stands against Alan Duncan in Rutland – the locals hate his troughing guts!

        • 291
          resurgemus says:

          funny how you don’t mention Kirkcaldy as a target.

          • Steve Expat says:

            That’s a target for the SNP more than UKIP I think.

            Rumour has been going round for a while that other parties might even help out the Nats in that seat. (4300 Tories and 5600 LDs in 2005, for example)

  17. 33
    anonymouse in the Treasury skirting boards says:

    We have lived in a Big Government, socialist state since Atlee’s 1946-51 Government created the Welfare State and nationalised pretty much every aspect of life.

    With a bare flickering of hope betweem ’79 and ’87, which only really liberated some private sector interests, there has been near universal support for this within political parties and total support from the civil servants and those who work in public services.

    Dave can do it, but he’ll have more than scars on his back if he does, he’ll have knives sticking out of it.

  18. 35
    Master Baiter says:

    Guidiot the Oaf, good to see the crack’s worn off.
    Beware the fall, get the monkey off your back.

    • 59
      Micky says:

      Here come the smears from the trolls crawling out from under their rocks.

      • 136
        jgm2 says:

        Now that you mention it – it was a troll free day yesterday. They must have been putting all their energies into developing a new line in lies and misdirection.

        We’ll see how they got on as the day develops.

        Will it be the ‘toffs’ angle? The ‘banks wot done it’ angle? Will it be the ‘Dave is bald’ killer angle?

        Or will there be a whole new approach to taking folks eye off the ball – the ball being ‘the economy is fucked and it was Labour wot done it’.

      • 148
        Master Baiter says:

        Chris Grayling wasn’t even mentioned.
        Guidiot the Oaf was suffering from excessive exuberance, it’s better for him to come down to earth.
        How ironic that those accused of smearing are smeared.
        Dave Komodo lizard lips, flicking tongue and stupendous combover (did you see the curtain on the back of his head LOL!) is a lightweight, he and Osborne were wrong on the crisis only twelve months ago.
        The crisis is a result of a lack of regulation which led to the financial innovators cooking up crack derivatives and so flooding the world with fake toxic credit.
        In the US banks are state controlled and the car companies are state controlled, that situation has nothing to do with the UK’s Labour administration.
        It’s a new era. Thatcherite ‘free market’ fundamentalism is the root cause of the crisis. Brown understands it’s a new era, Dave Komodo doesn’t because he’s just a lightweight soft soap salesman.
        As for the European squabble, how quaint is that? The Conservitudes’ Euroseptic tanks are starting to pong already, which is funny because Dave Komodo is supposed to be one. Isn’t he?

        • 160
          jgm2 says:

          BINGO!

          FULL HOUSE!

        • 161
          resurgemus says:

          Seen lots of CMD recently. Where’s Gordon , isn’t he meant to be leading the country ?

          • jgm2 says:

            To be fair, if Brown had been swaggering around talking shit, comme d’habitude, then the Tories would be moaning that he was trying to wreck their conference coverage.

            Also, research has shown that Labour is more popular when the Maximum Imbecile is off the screens.

          • resurgemus says:

            Oh come on JGM2 it’s Brown- why be fair ?

            The chump’s hiding. Zapped off to the bogs to deliver “peace” , got told to sod off. Spolit his spoiler announcement.

          • jgm2 says:

            You could be right. That’s what he was up to in NI last week. Trying to get some ‘peace’ kudos himself.

            God but he’s a nasty, scheming, evil bastard.

      • 155
        Micky says:

        It’s the Dave’s got Lizard Lips angle. Wow, that should work.

  19. 37
    jgm2 says:

    I want to believe him but when you’ve got bed-wetters queueing up on Question Time to get into a swoon about a mere pay-freeze that will ‘only’ save 7bn quid and the structural deficit being tossed about last night was of the order of 90bn quid (although I thought it was more like 60 or 70bn quid) then honesty-wise there is a lot more being held back than is being admitted.

    So good start if a pay-freeze will ‘save’ 7bn quid. But where’s the other 83bn quid per year going to be coming from? Darling? Cameron?

    Tax rises? Fine. Tell us how much. Tell us the fucking truth. We know Labour are evasive lying liars of the first water but spell out the alternatives.

    If we do not cut our deficit and continue to print cash then we are fucked. This government is cynically kicking the pants out of the economy because they’re frightened to take the tough decisions. They’re scared of being the ‘bad guy’ They have destroyed the economy and all they have left to cling to is they ‘did it for the right reasons’.

    No, they did it for all the wrong reasons. They were too frightened to admit they’d fucked up. They were too frightened to act like adults and make the tough decisions in 2002 and 2003. And they’re still too frightened. They are a weak, spineless goverment of economic incompetents who would rather get ‘just one more loan’ than admit they’ve got a spending addiction as surely as any one of those numpty women who piss all their money away on shoes they never wear.

    Dave needs to spell all this out. Repeatedly.

    Then he needs to spell out just how hard it’s going to be to get us back on our financial feet.

    He needs to tell the truth so that if Labour lie and lie and lie (as they will) and actually steal the 2010 election then it will be even more phyrric that Major winning in 1992.

    Because there is no way Labour can recover this economy with their insane economic plans. If we have to start from scratch it will be better than limping along for another decade or two pretending we can avoid making some very, very tough decisions and then having to bite the bullet.

    Do it now. Get it behind us.

    Tell the truth.

    • 55
      Tonto Balair says:

      I believe we can pay down this debt if people are allowed to earn and make good without intereference and nannying. I know personally of people I know who can’t see the benefit of working because they will not feel safe from spying and who are worried about breaking regulations, etc. It’s easier to sit on benefit only.
      Anyone remember the slogan ‘Too much bling-give us a ring’? So you likely going to get grassed up by a neighbour as soon as you go out with a bucket and ladder. If you go up the ladder you’ill have someone from the Carncil on your back before you’ve even made your first 20 quid. That is the problem!

      • 96
        South of the M4 says:

        Errr, why don’t these people you know get a proper job then they will not have to worry etc. Benefits are not a right to be added to by black-market jobbing.

      • 118
        Susie says:

        I was talking about our hairdresser who home visits and performs a very valuable social service in the village — she keeps the old ladies from getting lonely, does their hair and has been known to do the washing up for them (!)…

        Straight away I got one of the Lib Councillors on the newsgroup saying “I hope she has a Vetting & Barring Certificate XYZ, otherwise she’s breaking the law.”

        • 152
          jgm2 says:

          The sad thing is I believe you. We’re now at the stage where we dare not say anything because there might be some paid informant ready to report us for our ‘crimes’.

          The Mother-in-Law is with us at the minute having bust her hip and I was astonished to find how much she was looking forward to paying eighty quid for a fucking perm to pander to her vanity. But it is obviously important to her and to then hear that some box-ticking fuckwit would seek to tie somebody up in red-tape over a getting a fucking haircut.

          They knew what they were doing when they disarmed the population didn’t they? Because the only sensible and proportionate reaction is to shoot somebody like that in the face on the spot. Ideally out of doors though so you don’t wreck the carpet or chip the plaster.

        • 154
          Tonto Balair says:

          Exactly my point Susie. (South of M4-this government should back off and give these people the chance to but they won’t) If the attempt at being self employed fails it is very difficult to get back on benefits so its not woth trying). You know it is the Government who have clearley caused this situation and people like me and susie live in the real world where we hear from the horses mouth. That’s the way it is. You’re dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. It wouldn’t surprise me if this Lib Dem Councillor was a fan of Resurgemus

          • resurgemus says:

            Oh please you flatter me too much, to think I have the power to persuade the Libdems to come into the real world.

          • South of the M4 says:

            Understood. Must have misread your post. Agree that those seeking to help themselves get no support.

          • Tonto Balair says:

            South of M4-yes and it could be argued, as in my case, that I didn’t ask for nor got any support when I formed my own company with retail premisses and workshops, employing staff, etc. The Government have caused this and people are stuck in benefit land who would like to leave and support themselves but it is quite a leap I imagine. Thank you.

    • 83
      REEVO says:

      The problem his most of us have heard it all before seen it all before worn the tee shirt and washed the socks.

      Whats the point of paying out taxes for the gamblers and the clueless to piss it all away again.

      I am hearing nothing radically new or inspiring, only more of what we already know don’t work!

      • 172
        Tonto Balair says:

        I know; the classic line is ‘You can’t work more than 16 hours a week in case you lose your benefits’. This is all to do with high taxation so it’s a vicious circle.
        Labout bought votes from benefits with our money but we have to have an incentive to work, invest and profit from our labours. That can only mean less tax and interference. There is no other way. It’s too obvious that the debt will pay down with more of less tax and regulation. Otherwise we pay more tax with more regulation to keep the regulators in work and we go bust because we deter an innovative environment.

    • 225
      Socialism is the primrose path to hell says:

      Scorched earth for the next Government and engineering a mini-bubble for May 2010 in the hope of reducing the Conservatives to a majority of circa 35.

      It’s about Labour survival and it is criminal.

    • 330
      Soapy Soapy Ballls says:

      Boiling the Frog

      Water temp tepid

  20. 38
    BarryW says:

    The Tory slogan should be, my slogan is:

    Less Goverance: Better Goverance

  21. 41
    Anonymous says:

    Change you certainly CAN’T believe in!

    What you CAN believe is Cameron saying, “I want to wipe-out Gordon Brown because I believe that man is a second-rate c-…”.

    See: http://www.speechbreaker.co.uk/cameron.

  22. 42
    Sir William Waad says:

    There is of course a natural limit to government expenditure, whatever policy the Government may have. At some point you just run out of other people’s money and the economy shrinks to the point where it can no longer support Government’s spendaholic habit. Competent leaders would keep expenditure well below that limit, but if they don’t they will eventually be forced into cutting expenditure in a much more harmful way than if they had controlled it all along.

    There is considerable evidence that this limit has already been exceeded.

  23. 43
  24. 45
    Anonymous says:

    The Nobel committee set an important precedent – giving the Peace Prize to a politician BEFORE he or she bombs innocent civilians.

  25. 46
    Doc Trough says:

    Just seen W.C. Blair accompanied by Ma Boswell going into the service to honour Iraq vets and fallen. Expect divine thunderbolts presently.

  26. 47
    nell says:

    Radical change Hmm? Would be nice but it’s not going to happen.

    What I’d like is to see our troops brought home. But I’ll settle for them being reinforced and properly equipped and looked after by a War Cabinet that sits daily.

    What I’d like is to get us out of the EUSSR. I’d like a vote on the Lisbon Treaty. Neither are going to happen. And I have an uncomfortable feeling that the EUSSR is going to be Dave’s Achillles heel. But the least I hope for on Europe is that he gives us a referendum to give him a mandate to roll back the influence and cost of the EUSSR to Britain.

    There were some good things in his speech and the strongest point I thought was his emphasis on trying to restore the family. Not going to be easy given that gordon and his welfare state have all but destroyed the concept of family and personal responsibility.

    So no Cameron’s not going to be perfect or foolproof but gordon doesn’t even come a close second. In fact I find the prospect of gordon getting elected next time to be terrifying. A real nightmare scenario.

    • 109
      Armoured-Dinner-Jacket and the Late Kim Jong-Il says:

      Hosanna Nell!!

      The union and propagation of families is part of the natural order of things and they would for the most part prosper if not for the corrupting, mischievous interventions of the State.

      The ‘wefare system’ promotes the dissolution, not the strength, of society.

    • 173
      Susie says:

      I remember the ’80s very well and how I hated Thatcher for not only the unemployment, but the fairly drastic cuts in benefits she brought in… a real wake up call.

      I went freelance and although at first I was crap, I realized that if I wanted the companies I worked for to have me back, I’d have to up my game. I pushed myself, did things quickly and well, met deadlines and quite soon after a few months was pulling in very good money. I bought myself a few months off travelling around the Far East and USA (an education, I can quite see why China owns the world — they’ve worked very very hard 24/7 for it).

      It was only when I returned to a permanent job, I realized how slow and rubbish the long-termers were, knocking off at 5 on the dot whether the deadline had come and gone or not… the great British workforce still don’t get it, and if those public sector moaners on QT last night are representative, I’m afraid we are doomed.

  27. 48
    Trev says:

    This is all so tiresome. The philosophical gap between Labour and Conservative is a mile wide and I know which side of it I want to be on. Quite frankly I can see why Cameron has no wish to follow political advice from some pissed up numpty like Guido Fawkes.

    Its disingenuous to quote Cleggs ‘savage cuts’ since he withdrew it as fast as he said it since it scared the activists and electorate.

    And its infantile of you to claim the tories are setting up 17 new quangos as this claim came from a labour press release. Its not the first time you have done this and so I will have to point out the reality again …

    Office of Tax Simplification – comes from a suggestion by Lord Howe, not official policy. God knows we need it.

    Office of Budget Responsibility — a damned good idea. But then it does come from George Osborne.

    Free national financial advice service – this comes from the ‘Thoresen Review of Generic Financial Advice’, — it was, wait for it Commissioned by the government.

    ‘Sports Commission’ (Australian model) — this comes from a Conservative discussion document which suggests — “Conservatives would create a cross-departmental Cabinet Office Committee on sport, based on the Australian Sports Commission, to streamline the delivery of sport and act as a champion for sport in government”. ummm, not a quango.

    Office for Civil Society – the BBC report, “David Cameron plans to create the office by replacing the current Office of the Third Sector, although he argues the new office will be put “at the heart of government” to fight for the interests of charities … ” Errr … replacing a quango.

    Social Investment Bank – Hmmm… Darling championed one in his last budget. Reports say its part of Tory policy to replace the Office of the Third Sector (again). (Oh, thats charities to the rest of us). An attempt to help charities seems good idea to me.

    Military Quangos – In the current military climate I think it would be harsh to criticise the motives behind the 3 military organisations. Unless you are the Labour Party that is.

    International Aid Watchdog — The Guardian reports, “The government is to create an independent watchdog to monitor the effectiveness of the fast-rising overseas aid budget, the development secretary Hilary Benn said yesterday. .After pressure from the Conservatives, he said he was establishing a seven-strong body of experts to help him ensure the £7bn a year spent by the Department for International Development was being properly spent.” Ho hum – a definite forked tongue from the Labour Press office there…

    Innovative Projects Agency — The Times Higher Education Supplement point out it is an idea from a Tory Study Review which, “would take on the work of the existing Technology Strategy Board, the Department of Trade and Industry’s knowledge-transfer programmes, the innovation budget, the UK high-technology fund, a slice of the Government’s £1.6 billion research and development budgets and parts of the science and technology budgets of the regional development agencies.” ‘take the work of’ … Ho hum again.

    National Foundation for STEM — assume this is related to the Tories, ‘Science, Engineering, Technology & Mathematics (STEM) Task Force’ . The report says, “Overall we conclude that there needs to be a single voice in the public sector championing STEM – one which brings some co-ordination, discipline and focus to the many overlapping yet diffuse initiatives in this field. Hence we have proposed a new Agency to be a champion for STEM in the public sector and across society as a whole.”
    ‘a single voice’ implies getting rid of other multiple voices. Indeed the report says “We anticipate that the agency would incorporate the work and most of the staff of the existing Council of Science & Technology, the Science and Society section of the Office of Science & Innovation in the DTI and the public engagement part of Research Councils UK.” …. Well what the hell, we are in the 21st century!

    “HealthWatch” – yep its a Tory idea, and yes it looks like a quango to me. “And we will ensure that the voice of patients is listened to through the creation of a national consumer voice: HealthWatch” BUT “In this plan, scrapping targets and bureaucracy will free up resources to frontline care.”

    Export Services organisation – “We will streamline the procurement process to ensure the speedy delivery of equipment to the front line. And we will immediately reinstate the Defence Export Services Organisation (DESO) to ensure a healthy UK defence sector.” ‘Reinstate’. I cannot fault this. What do the French do I wonder?

    All Age Careers Service – Well just how do you want to end the curse of NEETs? The Tories point out – “The Skills Commission says: “there has been a decline in the quality of careers guidance since Connexions replaced the Careers Service [in 2001].” ” …. “That is why we will introduce a £180 million independent careers advice service for all secondary schools. …. And it will be an all-age careers service, to help those who are already NEET and missed out on good advice at school.”
    Sounds like it will replace this ‘Connexions’ – good idea since its spelt wrongly.

    Voluntary Action Lottery Fund – Tory policy is to “Replace the Big Lottery Fund with a Voluntary Action Fund dedicated to the voluntary and community sector” — Err that’s ‘replace’ — again.

    A development agency for libraries — ?? You got me there.
    But … former bookseller and now good library advocate Tim Coates (his elder son, Sam, is political correspondent for the Times) did give a speech to the ‘Conservative Party Forum on Libraries’ (its good to know I support a literate party) — he said, “It is timely for the Conservative Party to articulate a Vision for public libraries” “The Conservative party has a tremendous opportunity to take the lead in this matter immediately.” ” For as long as I can remember the officers of the MLA and the London Libraries Development Agency have been on the point of trying to resolve the political and technical questions that would make such progress possible.”
    So we ALREADY have a libraries development agency in London ! Does Ken Livingstone know?

    • 164
      Grumpy Old Man says:

      Bloody Hell, Trev. You’re in great danger of raising the level of debate! This is a site where anoraks, pervs, mentalists and other social mis-fits abuse each other on-line whilst abusing themselves in the privacy of their own shanty under Hammersmith flyover. You’ll be banished to the TLS if you continue like this. nice post, like it lots.

  28. 50
    don't let's be beastly to the Hun ... says:

    There are bad times just around the corner,
    There are dark clouds hurtling through the sky
    And it’s no good whining
    About a silver lining
    For we know from experience that they won’t roll by,
    With a scowl and a frown
    We’ll keep our peckers down
    And prepare for depression and doom and dread,
    We’re going to unpack our troubles from our old kit bag
    And wait until we drop down dead.

    • 150
      Noel... says:

      There are bad times just around the corner,
      We can all look forward to despair,
      It’s as clear as crystal
      From Bridlington to Bristol
      That we can’t save democracy and we don’t much care
      If the Reds and the Pinks
      Believe that England stinks
      And that world revolution is bound to spread,
      We’d better all learn the lyrics of the old ‘Red Flag’
      And wait until we drop down dead.
      A likely story
      Land of Hope and Glory,
      Wait until we drop down dead.

      • 220
        Jethro says:

        ‘There are home fires smoking,
        From Windermere to Woking,
        And the rats are preparing to leave the B.B.C.’
        Oh, if only!
        Mind you, it would mean B.H. would be completely empty.

  29. 51
    going mental says:

    this speech did draw a clear line between labour and the tories , under labour you state dependecy under the tories they will trust people , after this speech and the one by george i am more relaxed about the tories in charge of the country , i hope this does start a debate about big goverment v small goverment .

    Oh and i didnt throw up while watching daves speech

  30. 56
    REEVO says:

    Funny how we are all “INIT” together according to those that are multi millionaires (Cameron and Osbourn) and never had to want for anything.

    And how “we” who ever he is, has to make sacrifices to shore up those that gambled with their finances, took risks.

    Funny how those that were really prudent are supposed to throw their cash after the bad.

    Torie Lab Libdems are all utterly clueless as to what to do, and facing an ever increasingly very angry population.

    • 66
      Micky says:

      So who do you trust with your tax money mate?

    • 177
      When you house is buring down,you don't choose WHICH fire brigade to come and rescue you! says:

      I agree re Osborne’s speech saying we have all been guilty of spending money – I have scrimped and saved all my life so don’t fucking tell me otherwise you piece of crap.

      Apart from that,I support ANYONE getting in to get the criminal Brown out.

    • 262
      stilyagi_air_corps says:

      We are in it together – it’s an economy, stupid.

  31. 61
    Obama is a twat says:

    You only have to watch Questiontime each week to see how arrogant the public sector are, they see themselves as superior and part of the wealth creation aspect of the economy.

    I’ve never understood why someone on QT can’t point out to the public sector that they are parasites and they only get wages because the Government taxes the private sector.

    Most job losses and wage cuts are in the private sector, why do arrogant public sector scum think they are different?

    • 87
      Spot on ... says:

      Spot on !!

    • 112
      DZ says:

      Precisely. All this chat about ‘delivery’ of whatever is just jobs for the boys. And everyone seems agreed, but the great and good witter on.

    • 158
      Max says:

      And including the BBC.

    • 178
      Bottle-fed Triplet says:

      A bloke did that on QT last night. He said that he worked for a civil engineering firm in the private sector and mentioned he had to look people in the face and tel them there were no jobs for them and also might be in a position hwere there was no work for his company. Put the private sector argument quite well but nobody picked up that he was a ‘wealth generator’ who actually generated profits which eventually funded all government spending plans.

      • 215
        Master Baiter says:

        And what was this ‘civil engineering’ firm involved in creating?
        Was it railways, roads, Olympic stadia, hospitals, schools, barracks, electronic listening posts? If it was they are public sector projects. Which according to the right wing dim wits that infest this site are not wealth generating, hmmmm.
        Of course it could have been creating pubs and even maybe office blocks for thieving banks and insurance companies, who knows?
        Mind you they tend to take the wealth away, don’t they?

        • 232
          Winston bomb/gas the Fuzzy-Wuzzies Churchill says:

          Dig for Victory!

        • 239
          resurgemus says:

          Don’t be rdidculous MB, socialist politicians take everyone wealth away.

          Anyway, can we have the former MB troll back, he was funny.

        • 251
          Bottle-fed Triplet says:

          Oh Dear MB! Basic error. Follow the money. And these “railways, roads, Olympic stadia, hospitals, schools, barracks, electronic listening posts” are paid for by…….?

    • 198
      Susie says:

      We told an NHS nurse/administrator/coordinator person about our horrendous experiences of A&E the other week and she actually said, “If it was my hospital, you wouldn’t have got treatment.”

      And she was quite right, we didn’t.

  32. 63
    bill says:

    What did you expect from an Etonian ex-Bullingdon chocolate orange inspector.

    • 67
      IH says:

      Cheap and predictable comment.

      • 77
        bill says:

        Good though.

        • 80
          Micky says:

          Pisspoor. even Dolly Draper could come up with better material than that.

        • 139
          Anna says:

          No not good – it’s all wearing a bit thin now this argument – I don’t care about where someone comes from, it beggars belief that people think wealth and privilege was restricted to the Tories

          • Micky says:

            What else do they have but politics of envy? Let’s stir up the old class war again!

            Except the working classes have smelled a rat. Several rats in fact. Millionaire socialists busily helping themselves to the government purse.

      • 78
        Micky says:

        Labour have nothing left except smears. Bring back McBride!

        Or did he ever leave one asks?

      • 91
        bill says:

        He will have to raise his game massively and on the evidence I don’t think it is going to work. “Sharing the proceeds of growth” for God’s sake when anyone with a brain could see it was a hostage to fortune as the economy was about to implode. And the Dannatt, simply stupid. (Grayling: LOL)

    • 70
      brownout says:

      A good education counts againts him does it?

      • 82
        bill says:

        Having been to Oxford, I’d say it is OK.

        • 95
          jgm2 says:

          I’ve been to Oxford too. And Leamington Spa, Banbury, Reading and London Paddington.

          • Micky says:

            I’ve been to Berkeley. Weather’s nice there.

          • jgm2 says:

            It rained when I was there. Fucking hate the place.

          • Micky says:

            How many qualifications did you pick up in the local Walmart?

            Me I got a six pack of Dentistry, Psychology, Accountancy, Nuclear Physics, Architecture and Master of Business Adminstration. Oh and the girl on the checkout threw in a Physchotherapy degree for nothing, because she liked my “Bristish” accent.

      • 89
        shelling-out says:

        Bill – a good education didn’t count against Blair, or Harman, or Hilary Benn – or is it that a good education is only OK if you are a member of the Labour Party?

        • 116
          REEVO says:

          Some are educated way beyond their intelligence, many assume they are one of the same.

          A common mistake.

        • 183
          Rip Van Winkle says:

          You mean Blair, Harman and Hilary got a good education?

          Shame they never learnt anything.

      • 117
        bill says:

        I just don’t think he has it in him to effect the changes which are in our country’s best interests. It is quite simple really.

    • 123
      DZ says:

      Harriet Harman went to the sme school as Osborne, didn’t she?

      • 132
        Micky says:

        She was Matron.

      • 162
        Harwoman's dildo says:

        The only school she went to was the one that prohibited dildo’s in the dorm – hence her massive frustration and hatred of any that reminds her of a phallus,like errr….men.

    • 166
      Who dares wins says:

      Nothing like good old British envy of people who might have more than themselves eh?

      Britain deserves itself – shame on you for not getting Brown out by mass force – you are all just a bunch of moaning shysters – be brave and take action.

    • 199
      Bottle-fed Triplet says:

      OK bill, I presume that is your name not and invoice, otherwise capital ‘B’. Just imagine bill, you collapse in the street with severe abdominal pain. A passer by calls an ambulance and you are whisked to an NHS hospital. You are seen by a surgeon, who is the best in the country, and told you need an immediate operation.

      Then you hear his plummy voice and he tells you that he went to Eton and Oxford.

      Do you say?:

      A. Carry on Doctor.
      B. Will I live?
      or
      C. I don’t like your hideously white upper class, priveledged background, I demand to see a working class doctor immediately!

      • 249
        bill says:

        How many NHS surgeons went to Eton and Oxford?

      • 259
        bill says:

        Have you got a wind turbine on your central london house.

        • 275
          Bottle-fed Triplet says:

          Bill, do try and keep up This present goverment does not understand technology. That’s why they keep wittering on about ‘clean coal’, ‘carbon capture’ and the like. That’s why they think that you can order a nuclear power station from Amazon.com and it will be delivered next week.

          Wind turbines is a classic case of letting politicoes decide on energy policy. Even the late unlamented Ruth Kelly talked about rainwater harvesting for the “80 litre a day house” for water consumption. Fine for West Wales but it won’t happen in buildings over two storeys in Suffolk. If you want to save carbon, put a decent sized pv panel on the roof of every house in Britain. Do the sums and consider the visual impact vis a vis wind turbines.

          • Tonto Balair says:

            It’s strange that you mention visual impact. I understand some councils don’t like Solar Panels but are Ok with street lights, Satellite, Tv aerials,
            Traffic Lights. Control Boxes, Sub stations, yellow stripes and other ssorted steet ‘furniture’. Its very selective.
            Before I was reincarnate I was a victorian rail bridge builder who specialised in villages. I told them ‘one day these will be painted onto chocolate boxes’ ……..

        • 437
          shelling-out says:

          What would be the point of a wind turbine on my house? If people want to do it, that’s fine. Solar panels would be better – if they weren’t so bloody expensive.

          We need some sort of an incentive to get these things used more.

      • 264
        bill says:

        Were you in the Bullingdon?

        • 283
          Bottle-fed Triplet says:

          To paraphrase the Goons:

          ” I say, is that an Oxford tie you are wearing?”

          “Yes, it is”

          “So what did you do at Oxford?”

          “I bought this tie!”

        • 438
          shelling-out says:

          What difference does that make?

          Tony was (allegedly) affilliated to various clubs whilst at university. He wasn’t a squeaky-clean student either.

          Have you never done anything in your youth that you wish you hadn’t?

  33. 64
    Irene says:

    I thought the speech was good and certainly didn’t expect him to go into any great detail, certainly not at this stage.

    Don’t people realise you cannot hold a referendum if the treaty has been fully ratified – Yes you can put it to the people, but it will only ever be an Opinion Poll.

    People are really expecting too much from Cameron over this and it seems to me he and the Conservatives seem to be getting all the flak for what Blair/Brown have done – Cameron has stated what he will do – all we can hope for is that he won’t just roll over to EU demands in future. IMO

    • 119
      EU Jimmy !! says:

      I agree but – rather what Blair/Brown ain’t done!

      Post ratification we could have a referendum on an important principle

      Thus giving a warning to the EU that any more will be rejected by the “UK”

      • 147
        Pete says:

        I agree with Irene, you simple can’t have a post referendum, as she says it will only ever be seen as an opinion poll.

        • 186
          Rip Van Winkle says:

          Why can’t you have a referendum? Heath signed the Rome Tearty – Wilson had a referendum 3 years afterwards.

          What’s the difference this time? Anyone?

        • 234
          Arturo says:

          What about passing a law which ‘protects’ our ‘constitution’ and demands a referendum in specified circumstances – or is that against EU law?

      • 163
        Alan says:

        I don’t think you can have a referendum on a principle, certainly not regarding the EU.
        As has already been said it can only be an Opinion Poll

  34. 65
    FrankFisher says:

    Families? But what *kind* of families? Plenty of waffly wriggle room there. Cutting back on the state? My arse. Thatcher couldn’t/didn’t even start on WHitehall. She never got to grips with the politicised department of education and that’s where half our troubles lie. And media? BBC? And what of state intrusions into our browsing habits? Dave going to repeal the Extreme Porn laws? Will he give us our handguns back?

    I doubt it.

    I odn’t think much of Cameron at all. His single attractive feature – apart from his missus – is that he isn’t Brown. If I vote at all I shall be voting for the candidate most likely to kick Brown out, and that’s all I’m looking for, and expecting, right now.

    Having said all that, there are people close to Cameron who I rate – Hague for one. There are those in the near abroad, David Davis, who could deliver on a libertarian agenda.

    But I tell you what, it still isn’t a sure thing. There are millions of these parasitic labour voting bastards out there, just desperate to hold onto their phoney jobs or fat benefit cheques, and the voting fraud we’re going to see will be focused on the marginals. This is going to be a dirty and close fight.

    And just imagine, for a second, just imagine that Brown does win.

    Fucking hell. Not a nice thought eh? it could happen. It would be the end of england.

    • 73
      IH says:

      I honestly don’t think I could stay in this country if they got back in!

      • 99
        shelling-out says:

        We’re not staying anyway. Can’t afford to live here any more. We’re leaving in 8 months.

      • 108
        FrankFisher says:

        Ditto. And that’s a real problem for me, because the missus has steadfastly refused to leave this past decade. But I could not live here under a full term of Brown. I could not do it.

        Umm

        Obama a Nobel Peace Prize?

        is this a wind up?

        He’s only been there ten minutes – wtf?

        • 184
          jgm2 says:

          Indeed.

          WTF?

          I thought the Americans were almost as economically fucked as we were and yet I find that after inheriting two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan – both of ‘em still ongoing for the yanks – that Obama is in fact a global peace-maker.

          Why didn’t they give it to Bush? It makes as much sense.

        • 219
          Susie says:

          I’d leave too.

          I think it would actually become too dangerous to live here in retirement when society implodes — as it will…”you’ve got something, you’re older and weaker than me, I’m having it and I’ll kill you so you can’t tell any tales” that’s the way it will be.

      • 149
        I'm off! says:

        I said to my wife this morning that if this country elected Brown again,just to put off the judgment day to pay off Brown’s debts,we would emigrate within a month.

    • 86
      jgm2 says:

      If Brown does win it will be a phyrric victory for Labour and a catastrophe on a scale not seen since the Anglo Saxons wiped out the indigenous population and wiped out all trace of Roman civilisation in England.

      We’re almost fucked as it is. We are, as a nation, already only the width of a fag-paper away from being another economic Iceland. Five more years of imbecilic incompetence should get it through to the remainder of the population who haven’t starved or been eaten that Brown is only a solution to the question ‘which person shall we hang from the highest crane?’

      • 153
        Executing economies says:

        I would prefer a live TV execution,the method to be decided in a referendum at the same time as a ref’ on Europe – simply tick both boxes.

        Would save a lot of dosh too.

      • 176
        Max says:

        I said it before but a McDoom “win” will simply consist of a two year rolling car crash with ZNL and the LibDums fighting for the wheel. The IMF will be knocking at the door and the ZNL hoons will be ducking behind the sofa. The rest of us will be keeping the zombies off our property with shovels and taking turns keeping watch. When the money finally runs out there will be anarchy and your local drug dealer will be the one actually in charge. Consider making friends now. They have the guns. Flight will not be possible unless you have gold and can smuggle it out. The civilised world will have closed our borders like in 28 Days Later. This is a real possibility! Or maybe a bloody good film.

        • 196
          jgm2 says:

          I’d say that’s about how I picture it. Although I don’t think it’ll take the IMF two years to knock on the door. The phone will be ringing off the hook on the Friday morning.

      • 226
        Bottle-fed Triplet says:

        If they wiped out all trace of Roman ‘civilisation’, what’s all that stuff the archaeologists keep digging up? I think you’ll find that they never had the resources to maintain such an infrastructure and let it collapse and in time built over it with their own stuff.

        The Anglo-Saxons had their own way of doing things which were different to the Romans and over hundreds of years, society changed.

        Anyway, what did the Normans ever do for us!

        • 263
          jgm2 says:

          When I say ‘wiped out’ I mean we have no aqueducts and viaducts and coloseum type ruins kicking about the place like they do in France, Italy, Syria, Tunisia, Libya etc etc. All that civilising culture wiped out that took a good 600 years to even come close to re-establishing.

          But your point about lacking the resources (and will) to maintain the infrastructure holds. We are at the point where the government is delighted to be able to defer a decision on a new coal-fired power plant just so that again, they can bleat and whine from the sidelines if the Tories make the ‘tough’ (does not pander to the AWG agenda) decision. Meanwhile what harm could it do to grant permission now just so that they’re ready to start building when it’s needed?

          We’re already at the stage where essential infrastructure is being run down due to lack of funds.

          • Bottle-fed Triplet says:

            Agreed jgm2, ask your MP the following questions.

            1. How soon will it be, before our electricity supplies become critical and we have black-outs?

            2. How long will it take to plan and build enough nuclear power stations to meet our needs?

            3. On what day did you start the nucler power station build programme?

          • Bottle-fed Triplet says:

            Most of the Roman structures were robbed for materials. The wooden stuff was burnt, rotted or reused. The stone and tiles was robbed. Many Saxon and Norman churches contain Roman materials such as bricks, tiles and ashlar masonry. It’s yer actual recycling innit?

          • Tonto Balair says:

            They used to paint their women in rouge wode you know. Chris DeBurge made a song abart them

  35. 74
    Dunspending says:

    Don’t we have to have our spending plans approved in advance by the EU, for the next 2 year period. Isn’t that why Osbourne has agreed to copy Brown’s plans for 2 years, just as Brown agreed to match Ken Clarke’s? Otherwise Brown would have started chucking money down the pan from day one.
    Anyone know if this is the case?

  36. 81
    Guthrum says:

    It was not Radical- it was delusional from a 1950′s style Butskillite.

    He wants to be PM of ‘Great Britain’ yet vast swathes of the North, Northern Ireland,Wales, the South West, Scotland do not share his vision of warm fuzzy Kinder,Kuche & Kirche.

    It was glib and just promised more of the same, Big Government, Big Solutions, Big Taxes.

    I do not want to be led, I want to be stopped being robbed every day by the State and left alone- sod tramping up the summit. He is going to march us into
    a bog.

    • 113
      jgm2 says:

      I’m afraid we’re already in the bog.

    • 201
      Rip Van Winkle says:

      Vast swathes of Southern England would put Brown, Blair and the cabal up against a wall and shoot them tomorrow morning without trial.

      If the Scots are so keen and the Welsh so keen and the Northern Irish so keen, I suggest they make calls for referendums on leaving the Union.

      They can then stew in their own juices for the forseeable future and we can be rid of the Brown’s, Blair’s and Kinnock’s of this world at the earliest opportunity.

  37. 88
    Exiled in Wales says:

    Guido, you are spot-on with your comments about the size of the public sector in Wales.

    Dylan Jones-Evans, Professor of Research and Innovation with the University of Wales has written about this at length for the last three years. Dylan is passionate about the future of Wales, and utterly dismayed that approaching 60% of all new jobs in Wales between 2002 and 2005 were in the non-wealth creating public sector. The only reason that Wales Assembly Government (WAG) can spend money withiout any thought of a return on investment is because of the £21 billion that UK Government pumps into Wales each year through the Barnett Formula.

    Wales has a population of 2.9 million, about half a million more than Manchester. Go into any county in Wales and you will find huge adminstrative palaces for the 22 Local Authorities, any one of which could administer the whole of the Country. And that doesn’t include the three WAG Regional Offices. Anyone in doubt about the scale of this should Google Image search Ceredigion County Council and see the brand new building in Aberystwyth, and the slightly older, but just as large building in Aberaeron – and all this for a population of 79,000. It’s no exageration to say that most of the population of Ceredigion would fit in these two buildings.

    Wales has become a deadweight on the UK economy. Cameron and Osborne have got to square-up to WAG, and tell Rhodri’s replacement, possibly the fragrant Mrs Hart, that the game’s up.

    • 105
      shelling-out says:

      I’ve never seen a government or council building in need of any repair. In fact, they are all very well equipped and very modern.

      What about the new building for Ed Balls and his employees. I’ve heard it has a massage room and another room for therapy.

      We paid for this. It’s appalling.

      • 188
        Max says:

        Public buildings are on rolling maintenance programmes that are generous in the extreme but also very wasteful (because the cash is there they spend it and there’s not much in the way of brains around to manage things even if there was need to).

        I overlook an NHS building and it has been cloaked in scaffolding for about five weeks now (at great cost) and every few days the (separate) contractor who is doing some pointing and roof work (which it clearly does not need but hey it’s a rolling programme so it’s this building’s “turn”) climbs up and does what we describe in the trade as a tickle for a couple of hours.

        He then leaves site. I will update you when the scaffolding is removed. It could be some time and a bill into the huge thousands accrues meanwhile.

        • 439
          shelling-out says:

          We only had a small scale scaffolding when our extension was built 2 years ago. It was up for almost 4 months and cost a king’s ransom, compared to the actual cost of the build.

          Why is there nobody to monitor this colossal waste of our money?

          • Exiled in Wales says:

            No, because nothing of what goverment does in Wales, is subject to any kind of external evauation. It’s jobs for the boyos.

      • 290
        Susie says:

        A Muslim prayer area as well. Imagine a normal private office allocating a room for a chapel FFS!

        • 357
          Jimmy Carter says:

          The muslim guy at our place had to use the filing room, which he was perfectly happy with.

    • 114
      South of the M4 says:

      In Welsh……………

    • 131
      bill says:

      Ah, but he is passionate about the Union. God knows why.

  38. 90
    Technomist says:

    So, Obama has won the Nobel Peace Prize. It all makes Brown’s efforts at saving the world look insignificant now.

  39. 120
    A No 10 Nokia says:

    What a night last night!!

    The nursing staff were on the go all the time. First they tried to humour him, and walked him about. Then they tried some tablets.

    Nothing worked, so in the end they restrained him and gave an injection.

    Took some time to work, but we got there in the end.

    It’s getting worse. And I thought I was used to it! G*d the bruises!

  40. 127
    genghiz the kahn says:

    The power of the State has increased, is increasing and ought to be diminished, and the same could apply to The European Comission.

    Dunning’s resolution of 1780 still applies. The role and powers of the state need to be re-examined, as there are too many politicans who fail to take responsibility for their actions and hide behind quangos and the decisions of their placemen.

    Who has been asked to participate in the Road Safety Partnerships which errect the revenue earning speed cameras, and rarely publish accident figures. Who oversaw the Leaning and Skills Commission which channelled funds for mega comprehensives of 1,500 kids, whilst the children of the elite find places in schools no bigger than 1,000. Gove’s proposals don’t look quite so easy to implement after 12 years of mega comp by stealth.

  41. 129
    Henry Crun says:

    A tad unfair on criticising the adherence to spending plans. It is only until 2011. The Tories aren’t going to get a full look at the books until George crosses the threshold of No11. We don’t have the full picture as to how dire the state of the country’s finances are. Hopefully Osborne will order a full and accurate review of the books, rein in the off-balance sheet accounting and present a full picture of the shit that Labour has left us in.

    To say now, that the Tories would present a new budget ahead of an election which, in all likelihood, will be a post-Budget election, would be reckless in the extreme. A pledge that the MSM and opposition politicians would tear to shreds.

    • 197
      Max says:

      They’ve u-turned on adhering to the spending plans and as you say will not develop a budget until they have the books. This might still be difficult then if Mr B’Liars industrial shredders are still in Whitehall.

  42. 130
    SO17 says:

    People working for the state is the only game in town otherwise Britain would have 10 million unemployed.
    Big Goverment employing bum inspectors and one legged arse kicking competition organisers is the inevitable result.
    Small government is only possible with either millions unemployed or millions on chinamans wages.

  43. 145
    Stop the world,I want to get off.... says:

    The Swedes look like they have been at the potato schnapps again!

    Obama for Nobel Peace Prize?

    Next they will be awarding Olympic gold medals BEFORE the bloody races! (I suppose you could do THAT for Usain Bolt!).

    At least this will make the fraudster Brown even more mentally unbalanced and unstable (picture the scene at Downing St – “WHAT! I have not won the prize,for all my efforts to ruin every PIECE of Britain – surely I should be the winner!Bring me a crate of Nokia’s now scum servants”).

    This world really is getting madder by the day.

    I suppose if this carries on,Blair will be made President of the World pretty soon.

  44. 157
    Nanny State, with a SEVERE MESSAGE says:

    Now sheeple, let’s just make sure you understand before those nasty Tories make us stop treating you like children.

    NO ALCOHOL – it’s makes people have silly ideas
    NO SMOKING – it’s solitary vice round the back of the bike shed
    NO SEX – it makes things shrivel up
    NO FAT – it makes you fat like what we Noo_Lie_Bore Wimmin are
    NO TV except when the Glorious ‘n Beloved Leader is on
    NO CHEESE – wasn’t that girl in sans-bur-rees super to stop taht muvva being naughty!! What an example to us all!

    That’s all for now . . we shall redouble our efforts – that’s four times isn’t it Mavis?

  45. 180
    Road_Hog says:

    Off Topic

    Obama wins 2009 Nobel Peace Prize

    For fuck’s sake, what’s he done to win that?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8298580.stm

    • 203
      SO17 says:

      Well for a start he is the first Black man to become President of the USA and……..

      • 209
        McDevastation says:

        I canna understand why I didnae win it. I gave away a sub FFS and this is how the bastards repay me.
        I do think President Beach is a worthy winner though

      • 230
        BillyBob says:

        Do not want to be pedantic, mixed race actually……but I agree with what you are saying!

      • 318
        Jimmy Carter says:

        To not have given him the prize would have been racist.

    • 212
      Anonymous says:

      Came a day late for the BBC who are now having orgasms over this…….. it will provide them with a full week of headlines. They would have preferred to put the Tories on the back burner yesterday, me thinks.

      Would it have happened if he was not of mixed race?? Cannot say black, as his mother was white……….oh well, he now has further to fall!

    • 243
      Raving Loon says:

      No criticism of “The One”! Off to the gulag with you!

    • 256
      Anonymous says:

      It’s like giving a student a degree during freshers week.

    • 268
      BBC 2000 .... says:

      BREAKING NEWS

      They’ve just announced that he’s also won all the others this year (literature, science, etc) and is favourite to win all of next year’s and thpse in 2011′s

      He’s also gonna get a silver medal coming second to Usain Bolt in next years un-contended 100 meters.

      It’s a miracle …

      Praise be …….

  46. 206
  47. 217
    Dick Emery says:

    smells and looks like a Blair 2.0

    • 308
      Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

      Christ, unpleasant imagery. Were you dressed as the randy old lady when you sniffed them?

  48. 224
    Max says:

    Let’s be pragmatic, Guido, the tories have to be elected first. If they told the great unwashed what they really were thinking there would be no chance of that. You may swan around in more intellectual circles that can deliberate on theory but (particularly after 12 years of Ballsed up Reducation) the man on the omnibus is too thick and scared to contemplate reality. I was told last night by a reasonably wealthy businessman (who one would regard as a straighforward typical tory voter) that “cutting £7 billion out of the economy” would create mass unemployment and mayhem and that ZNL “were right on avoiding this”. I was too full of red wine to appreciate that he was not joking but fortunately the missus was on soda water and gave him a swift verbal hiding along the lines of “who is paying and where do the hoons get the money from”. A couple of half hearted Guinesses later he left. Fair spoiled my evening but shows the scale of the task Dave has.

    • 245
      jgm2 says:

      It’s getting very scary when a businessman is prepared to connive with the Labour government of economic destruction. So his considered opinion is that Labour should continue to print 175bn quid a year just so it can continue to trickle trough the economy and maintain the illusion of, well, an economy?

      We_are_so_fucked.

      A shiver just ran down my spine.

      • 260
        Master Baiter says:

        The majority of leading economists maintain that withdrawing stimulus measures prematurely would be disastrous. They may be right they may be wrong but what is certain is that people such as Maximum Bore are not likely to have a worthwhile insight on the matter.
        ‘Free market’ fundamentalism caused the crisis, it’s not going to fix it.
        The US car companies and banks are state controlled for a reason, the market malfunctioned badly. Thatcher style simpletonian supermarket basket case economics are not the answer.

        • 270
          jgm2 says:

          The US car companies should be allowed to go bankrupt. Their continuing existence is an abomination. Just as British Leyland’s existence was an abomination.

          • jgm2 says:

            The US car companies should be allowed to go bankr*pt. Their continuing existence is an abomination. Just as British Leyland’s existence was an abomination.

          • Red Robbo says:

            British Leyland was my finest hour.Those were the days when we had a “British” car industry to be proud of and made the finest cars in the World – the Austin Allegro and Morris Marina to name but two!!!!

          • What's that pile of rust doing in your garage, says:

            Brilliant cars they were, drove one to the Motor Show and the exhaust dropped off!

          • Swindon-Man says:

            But distinctly British!

          • Friday update. Cameron sets out his stall, but meanwhile… Labour lets down students, the poor and justice and lets down the country, really

            Brown is either running a deliberate scorched earth policy or he is like an elderly woman I know who managed, quite by accident, to turn a minor fire in her bedroom into a raging inferno that gutted much of her house. She survived uninjured, but the house took nearly 2 years to put right.

            Either way, it’s not looking good for the next six months, is it?

            To continue the fire analogy, will someone in the New Labour House have the presence of mind to call the fire brigade or will they fan the flames?

          • jgm2 says:

            This government are like the kids who delibrately start a fire in a car they’ve nicked then phone the Fire Brigade and ambush them with rocks and air rifles.

            ‘Cos that’ll be a laugh. They are economic hooligans of the lowest chavtastic order.

          • Let’s not forget the Austin Princess.

          • We used to have one – so let’s please forget the Princess!

          • Max says:

            Ah, the people’s Princess! (As opposed to the Vanden Plas R one)

          • The Marina wasn’t a bad car. Though a friend was disturbed when I proved it possible to start his engine with a Yale house key!

            “I think you need a new barrel,” I said as the car was running without a key in the ignition!

          • In the days that the telly was in b-l-a-c-k & w-h-i-t-e only says:

            Aaah -The colour range of the marina was excellent – I particularly liked the beige browny colour with matching beigy brown pvc seats – an hour in parked in the Sun and the minute you sat down you lost the will to live as you prised your scorched buttocks etc off the seat !!! Although in the Winter you froze your nadgers off until it had been running for an hour which was tough if you only had a 39 minunte drive to work!! And who would think of making a car with a “Square” steering wheel like the Allegro had – truly British Leyland was an iconic British Firm and summed up all that was best about the Wilson and Callaghan Years remarkably well

          • shelling-out says:

            …that was if you could ever get the thing to start in the first place. They were not good in cold weather.

          • Cassandra King says:

            Ah the memories of my first car, a 1979 blue marauder 17.HL and I loved it, ran it into the ground but loved it dearly and it was realible too with just 1500 on the clock to start and 90000 to finish it ran through floods and storms, Germany and back dozens of times and always started even after months away on postings, with four passengers it would do 120 easy.
            Aaaaah the memories!

          • Glennys Kinnocks Glory Hole says:

            I liked the austin maxi myself!

          • Bottle-fed Triplet says:

            The Austin ‘All Aggro’, the one with the strangely square shaped steering wheel. Available in a range of exciting colours including ‘Hearing Aid Brown’.

            With body cavities filled with foam to deaden the noise. Sadly the foam became saturated and speeded up the corrosion process. Ah yes I remember them well!

          • Morris Marina says:

            Quite right.

        • 274
          jgm2 says:

          The majority of leading economists (apart from the IMF – who were warning Brown of his out of control spending back in 2003) failed to see what I and many others were pointing out five years ago. Ie this government (and personal) borrowing and sqandering is insane. House prices going up 15% a year when ‘inflation’ is only 2% is insane.

          It cannot last.

          So actually they can go and fuck themselves for they are clearly incompetent.

          The truth will set you free.

          Brown is incompetent. he fucked up. He destroyed the UK economy. We need rid.

          • Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

            On radio4 this morning they were on about how people who put a deposit on a flat might have to pay up and buy the flat. reminded me.

            I wonder if they could find the guy who was on tv/radio saying house prices would go up forever in the very recent past (he might have been in some buy to let association or the like).

            I was puzzled as to who was going to live in all the new flats in manchester as long ago as 2000. (Never mind all the office space, never mind cities like Leeds or sheffield).

          • The decrease in house affordability and M4 correlate nicely.

            Therefore the Credit Bubble was actually harming the U.K.s wealth.

        • 312
          English Liberation Front says:

          And moronic East German communism circa 1960 is the answer?

          The “free market” did not cause the crisis, bonehead, it was US Lefties who decided to legislate to force mortgage companies to lend money to people who would not be able to pay it back and then your Illustrious Lefty Leader’s imbecilic decision to create a tripartite and useless regulatory system which permitted some banks to extend their risk beyond prudence. If that was not enough he embarked on a state spending binge where value for money was not even remotely required so that when the crunch came he had no reserves to deal with it. Fire Fighting, you silly little man from the School of Yvette Cooper Airhead Economics, is not the same as Fire Prevention.

          Of all the stupid Labour trolls peddling their hogwash on the blogosphere you are one of the nastiest, most repulsive little creeps to emerge. Narky little creep? Yeah, that’s YOU that is.

          • jgm2 says:

            I’ve met a lot worse. Although they all have that condescending tone that only a true idiot can quite perfect.

            Like Brown when he lectures us on economics. And prudence. And tough choices.

          • Sad, but true says:

            Hear, hear.

        • 314
          Socialism is the primrose path to hell says:

          No, the Chinese just do capitalism better than USA and UK do.

          Nationalisation is a waste of time both in USA and in UK.

          Free market rules in Asia.

          In China you are middle class with 2000 pounds per annum..car, house, everything.

          Happiness is a full belly and that is enough for millions who will work just for that.

          Labour and the welfare state have been sponging off of millions of Chinese and Indian workers over twelve years to create a ‘bread and circuses’ voting constituency. The Asians work, create value, but Labour spend by getting into debt big time. And then it goes pear shaped..

          The never ending stream of money from Gordon’s mates in the Globalised Banks was the key to eternal socialist spend without discipline. Too good to be true. No more boom and bust.

          Hubris big time.

          Wake up MB.

          The world does not owe us a living.

          Get used to it.

        • 317
          Rip Van Winkle says:

          And those same ‘leading economists’ never saw the biggest credit and asset bubble ever seen coming. It was like an express train, full horn blaring, lights everywhere at 20 paces – and ‘it took them by surprise’.

          Nuff said.

        • 440
          newsflash says:

          The leading economsts that didn’t see this coming, you mean?

          US car companies are state controlled because they make shit cars that no-one buys, and obama the peace maker wants their union votes, you twat.

          If you think we had a free market, you’re a bigger twat than I thought.

        • 441
          shelling-out says:

          Do you think we should bail out Royal Mail as well, then?

          Postal workers are preparing to strike, despite several polls stating that quite a lot of companies would take their postal business elsewhere if the deliveries got any worse. If post doesn’t get delivered, RM will lose even more customers and more money. Why should we keep bailing these people out? The strike seems to be far more important to them then their jobs.

          Nobody bailed me out – I had to get up off my arse and find work. Let them do the same.

        • 457
          GHOST OF IAN SMITH says:

          you’d be fooked without stimulation though, wouldn’t you.

          once a wanker always a wanker

    • 255
      ExEng says:

      The junky addict mentality. “Look what will happen if we stop”

      “But in 10 years time you will be scratching for a living”

      “No I won’t, there will be a cure for debt by them”

      It is the lottery brainwashing. As soon as anyone tries to make a serious future decision someone always finished the discussion by saying “It’s OK I will win the lottery tomorrow”.

      • 359
        Master Baiter says:

        A better analogy would be being in a truck that’s out of control and hurtling down hill. Either you jump off the truck and risk near certain death or you stay on the truck and try to bring it under control. It’s obvious that noone would choose to be on a truck that’s out of control but that’s what’s happened to the malfunctioning ‘free market’.
        This crisis was not caused by unions, the poor, the indolent, incapacity benefit, health and safety, climate change activism, CND or government spending.
        It was caused by out of control bankers mixing up super charged crack derivatives and with them flooding the world with fake toxic credit. Since the crisis erupted in August 2007 Brown has been right on the measures needed, Cameron and Osborne have been eating his dust.
        Lesson over.

        • 376
          resurgemus says:

          It was caused by a government which failed to regulate banks properly as it wanted the tax revenue to fund its supporters

          • Master Baiter says:

            Simpleton

          • resurgemus says:

            you see the old MB would have had a witty retort and not resorted to an insult.

          • Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

            373 … if you removed the barbed “supporters” and replaced it with something more neutral or even slightly pro-baiter like “worthy programmes”. He’d have less, perhaps nothing to complain about.

            Which is perhaps why he’s gone all hissy-fitty

          • MB, yes it is just that simple.

            Banks were regulated into creating debt, to lend to consumers (not investors) to be taxed for the states benefit.

          • Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

            resuregemus …. 1:11pm.

            Absence makes the heart go fonder or what?
            He was always like that.

        • 399
          ExEng says:

          The function of government is to stop “out of control” members of our society destroying it for the rest. THAT MEAN BANKERS.

          The issue was the government was too weak to do anything and had to wait for the out of control truck to hit the first corner before it could get on board. It still has not got hold of the wheel yet, and the speed has not decreased, but they all are congratulating themselves.

          It is the governments fault for being weak and ignorant.

          • If you understand how Fractional Reserve Banking works, then you’ll understand that The Regulator controls the amount of debt ion the system via reserve ratios.

            The massive ramp in debt was done deliberately, by the regulator.

            Why? So debt was used for consumption, and as consumption is taxed it gains extra revenue for the state.

          • ExEng says:

            ACO. It was the wide spread corruption in the system that I mean.

        • 442
          shelling-out says:

          Nothing to do with Gordon’s failure to regulate the banks, then? He had plenty of opportunity during the 10 years he was Chancellor, but chose not to do it, instead leaving us, the poor old taxpayers, to foot the bill.

    • 276
      Max says:

      I hear such things daily from reasonably intelligent people. You can sometimes trace the content of the spouting directly back to some twat commentator on the (usually BBC) news. Virtually all of my friends who are middle class continue to support the idiot McDooms, similarly virtually everyone I come across who is working class (and actually works or wants work) supports Dave. Very odd but 12 years of McDoomian economics has turned swathes of the middle classes into a beholden client for ZNL and dependant upon the great McTwat’s continued largesse. Or at least they believe that.

      • 307
        jgm2 says:

        After selling up two years ago (yes, really, October 2007 – hahahahah) and renting until four months ago thereby saving 20% on the cost of a house I actually heard a woman saying ‘renting is dead money’ last week.

        Let me see love. 18K in rent ‘v’ 300K cash free saving. Hmmm. I can tell you I lose sleep over that 18K of lost money every fucking night. Not.

        I simply couldn’t be arsed to point out the stupidity of her statement.

    • 281
      Sir William Waad says:

      I think the fallacy here is that this recession was not caused by a failure of demand, as some previous recessions were, but by a failure of the banking system. Brown’s solution of stuffing the banks with money that they don’t lend out has proved a good short-term expedient, as long as they are made to pay it back when times get better. It has kept the banks afloat and prevented a worse disaster. Of course, Brown should take a large share of the blame for allowing the banks to destroy themselves in the first place.

      The underlying problem of a deep, long-term structural government deficit is far less tractable. Labour Chancellors of the Exchequer too often just don’t behave as grown-ups. Brown combined incompetence with arrogance to a staggering degree (he really ought to be CEO of a bank). He totally and abjectly screwed the public finances and ramped up spending to unsustainable levels. Can Cameron and Osborne solve that? They have to try.

    • 448
      Max says:

      As it’s gone 5pm and I started this thread I am hereby closing it and declare MB the loser. Again. I wish you were better educated and better read MB because the competition would be more fun and less exasperating. Is there a thread further down I can join in on regarding our Dave’s hair because you may win that one?

  49. 246
    Master Baiter says:

    George Osborne showed on BBC Question Time that he is a narky little creep and a true gift to the Labour campaign, discuss.

    • 258
      SO17 says:

      You are a homophobe appolagist and I claim my £5

    • 278
      Henry Crun says:

      Master Baiter was in beddy byes having a little wank under his Harriet Harman duvet set when question time was on, so didn’t get to see Ian Hislop rip Mrs Cooper-Balls, former intern to Billy-Bob Clinton, a new arsehole.

      Mrs Cooper-Balls, former intern to Billy-Bob Clinton, demonstrated how utterly bereft of ideas, compassion or wit the Labour Party have become.

      Discuss

      • 296

        That episode was a stain on her career.

      • 298
        Master Baiter says:

        Thanks for the non denial denial.
        The best bits are when Osborne’s eyes start swivelling, the jaw drops, the mouth goes out of control and the oozing disdain for real people, which is when he has the look of an ugly scavenging raptor.
        Sweet

        • 319
          Susie says:

          No MB I love my George best when he’s slouched on the bench at PMQs regarding Fat Boy with a mixture of utter contempt and disbelief — so cooool.

          • English Liberation Front says:

            Well said. Let’s face it, if politics was only about looks New Labour’s cabinet fell out of the Ugly and Gurning Trees and hit every branch on the way down.

            Wonder what the well known tosser MB looks like?

          • Master Baiter says:

            There is no accounting for taste.
            Next time watch him catching flies, and mouthing others’ words, what a peculiar man he is.

          • resurgemus says:

            Seriously MB , whoever was doing the blogs before this term started was a lot funnier and could at least make you think he had an argument.

            Can we have the old one back ?

        • 443
          shelling-out says:

          Sounds like Gordon to me. You must have the two confused.

          Never mind, dear. Go and have a lie down.

      • 320
        It's a Question Of Time says:

        Oh, I can discuss this for longer than it takes Cooper’s grotty husband Hitler to finish the worst speech ever made by a govt minister in living memory (at last week’s re-enactment of Dunkirk down at Brighton – remembering that Dunkirk in WW2 featured bravery and this particular Dunkirk last week featured the biggest collection of cowards and criminals ever gathered in one place).

        Just watching QT from last night and several points;

        1.) Hislop skewered Cooper so hard the fork came out of the back of her neck.

        2.)The discussion throughout the programme from EVERYBODY who spoke referred not to IF but WHEN the Labour Govt get booted out by the Conservatives.

        Even the utterly obnoxious Cooper boy presented the face of a thoroughly beaten fraudster waiting to hold up her mugshot for the police photo prior to a lengthy spell behind bars pending an upcoming fraud and treason trial.

        And why oh why can’t the experts in their fields – the Stuart Rose’s etc – be the ones leading the economic strategy to save the country.

        If I want to hire a jet and fly to the south of France for a weekend (if I ever had the money to do so) I would hire a qualified PILOT – I would NOT let a person who says he or she has nothing better to do than TRY to fly a damned plane.

        By the way,Cooper was the most despised person on that QT programme last night – an odious nonentity.

    • 287
      English Liberation Front says:

      Master Baiter shows on order-order.com every day and in every thread that he is a narky little creep and a true gift to the anti-Labour campaign. No point to discuss – we all know.

    • 329
      Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

      You odd boy.
      In what way do you think YOU are going to be able to discuss that? And talk about how he looks, dispationately and tactically? OK … I’ll bite.

      He looked ok. Wasn’t over-impressed (of course) or under impressed (complement). I think his biggest problem will the the odd soundbite conservative central office has got him to spout, if it was the rather dull “all sectors of society will have to pay money or get less money”. Obviously the more money anyone has got the further out of the shit they are. I don’t think trying to milk “all in it together” would be a good tactic for labour, they will just looks like idiots (although clearly it is something that Osborne would be wise to avoid as it can irritate people even if they know its an irrational irritation).

      He dealt with that ok. I thought it was populist and slightly illogical, but he scored all the points.

    • 416
      Absolute Disgrace says:

      George Osborne is a smarmy little git. You can see in his eyes that all he craves is power. In the current climate we need investment; not a swathe of ludicrous ideas that would save us what? £70 billion? Hardly scratches the surface.

      I agree that the current lot hardly set the blood coursing, but I feel that at the moment it really has to be better the devil you know.

      • 449
        Max says:

        Get back to ZNL HQ I think they have a new angle on this one as everyone here saw through it when Frank went to press. Ok?

      • 463
        Henry Crun says:

        Investment implies that a return on that investment over and above the value of that investment would be due at some point in the future.

        Labour’s definition of investment means borrowing gazillions of pounds and pissing it away on projects that will never see the light of day or have no hope of succeeding.

        If George Osborne is all for cutting back on Labour’s definition of “investment”, then so much the better.

  50. 250
    Realist says:

    For the ordinary guy in the street, looking for a bit of hope to save him from killing himself, there’s nothing here to be happy about. The bills will continue to rise, they’ll be no respite from the pressure to work 100 hours a week to make ends meet, little time for pleasure and the massive consideration of trauma and ill health to look forward to as a result.

    I have to thank Gordon Brown particularly, for fucking this country over so well, and for the incoming Tories, for not appearing to be able or willing to take the drastic measures necessary, other than kicking the working man, the poor and disabled.

    Maybe it would be kinder if we were offered the opportunity to be shot now rather than go through the pain only to be shot later.

    • 323
      Eric says:

      Some things in life are bad,
      They can really make you mad.
      Other things just make you swear and curse.
      When you’re chewing on life’s gristle,
      Don’t grumble, give a whistle,
      And this’ll help things turn out for the best, and…

    • 327
      Susie says:

      Try a spell living on the street in Mumbai or working in a sweat shop in Shagnhai, why don’t you?

      Might put a few things back into perspective and get your head straight.

      • 335
        Tin Cunliffe-Arsely says:

        Eeeh luxury. you call that hardship?

      • 377
        Truth Sayer says:

        Dear seeing you can walk down your street and be for all intents and purposes in little ‘Mumbai’ or walk past the sweat shops like the ones in Shagnhai on a daily basis now in the UK. That comment was a little ignorant.

  51. 253
    I want to believe says:

    But I can’t. So I’ll be voting UKIP again. UKIP voters like me helped the Conservatives to lose 27 seats that they might have won in 2005.

    • 303
      Towards that historic Fourth Election Victory for Labour says:

      And also delivered a Labour Government in the process and which will happen again if enough people think like you do either delivering a hung parliament and a re-run of the 1976 Lib/Lab Pact which was disastrous for the country or another 5 years of Brown equally as bad !!

    • 325
      resurgemus says:

      Yes and then we got the Lisbon Treaty.

      So how does that work then ?

  52. 277
    RestandBthankful says:

    Obama wins the Nobel Peace prize! Surely that’s not right. I thought McBroon saved the world.

    • 285
      jgm2 says:

      No. Brown is in the frame for the Economics prize.

      If he wins it I shall know for sure that Satan stalks the land.

      • 324
        Blonde swedes says:

        If he wins,then we send in the troops to Stockholm – lots of gorgeous Swedish girls there I can assure you.

    • 286
      Sir William Waad says:

      I don’t recall Obama actually making peace anywhere, do you? Is it becoz I’z black innit?

      • 293

        Words are much more important than results…

        The Nobel science prize is going to that last bloke to patent a perpetual motion machine.

        • 332
          Don't bank on a wanker says:

          Don’t you mean a Perpetual Wanking Machine;

          The Mark 1 PWM – shortened to PM – otherwise known as Gordon Brown.

      • 346
        A vile, mendacious, pompous, cheating, lying little git says:

        Ah – but it’s the intentionality (another go9od psuedy word) that counts.

        Innit.

        kno wot oi meen ?

        • 396
          Sir William Waad says:

          Yes – if you want to be accepted, especially in Guardianista circles, but it applies everywhere – the important thing is to have all the correct opinions. You can behave as a complete shit (believe me, I speak from experience) as long as you tick the right boxes, for/against Israel, for/against capitalism, believe in/sceptical about global warming, like/dislike high taxes, vegetarian/carnivore etc etc etc ad nauseam.

          I blame Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who had really lovely opinions but was a thoroughly selfish little chump in real life.

  53. 289

    UKIP offer you the pound, “Dave” offers you change….

  54. 292
    TheCourtOfPublicOpinion says:

    All those saying Tally-ho and his Eton chums can’t be worse than Bruin so give him a go do realise thats precisely how Bliar got in back in ’97 don’t they?

    • 404

      As the alternative is years and years more of Brown, Mandelson, Harman, Baroness Scotland, etc… what else do you suggest? Oh, dear. Clegg and Cable? I don’t think so.

      • 429
        TheCourtOfPublicOpinion says:

        You’re right, but it doesn’t stop it being like having to choose between sticking your head in a bucket of vomit or a bucket of sh1t.

  55. 295
    Get Smart says:

    Different party same government if we don’t have a referendum they are wasting out time.
    Interesting item in Mail from Mary Ellen Synon in Brussels.
    http://synonblog.dailymail.co.uk/2009/10/another-interfering-uppity-european.html#comments

  56. 341
    A vile, mendacious, pompous, cheating, lying little git says:

    I rec ricaa wrecka wrecka told ‘em to giv’ NoDrama that prize, – wot wiv me being an xpert on peace – like I am at evrythin’ else – esp. munny.

    ‘n I ‘ave the best bloggas in th’ world.

    innit.

  57. 345
    Brezhnev says:

    Big Government eh? What about the politburo in Brussels? CMD hit some good domestic notes but ignored the real thing.
    Is he another startled rabbit? A true radical would appreciate the broader context of history – europe’s steady deline towards an unelected, soviet style regime. He’d appreciate it, and tackle it. CMD hasn’t had the balls.

  58. 352
    Conflict of ironies says:

    So Obama wins the Nobel Peace Prize just before he announces an increase in the number of troops into Afghanistan.

    Ahhh – the irony is superb.

  59. 355
    Truth Sayer says:

    Dave’s con’s are just the same as reinvented ‘nu’ labour, promising everything to everyone just to get in power. Half the rhetoric contradicts it’s self and alot of the policies merely look good on paper but will not last long or even make implementation.

    I’m disillusioned with the tories now after their conference, I don’t think i’m going to vote at all from now on.

  60. 363
    him at 22 says:

    just noticed a programme on SkyHome or summat

    called ‘Labour and Delivery’ – thought it was a political show but nah, it’s all about having babies and stuff.

    still, the titles wrong anyway cos Labour don’t deliver they just do the fucking!

  61. 380
    chrisg says:

    So who is the pessimist and optimist from the conference season, or can you tell the difference?

    http://www.plenty2say.com

  62. 381

    Whilst there are some similarities between a country and a corporation, the world is less easy to forget and forgive the bankruptcy of the former. In the probable event of a Tory government next year, there will remain on the books the liability for the money already blown by Gordon & Co. Dave did enumerate the three alternatives, default it, deflate it, or deal with it (my own aphorism, rather natty, no?) and he chose the only practical course. As such, I really do not see how he can in the short and possibly early medium term do anything about the huge quantity of money that will be needed to reduce the capital owed and pay the interest. He is therefore not really in a position to reduce the gross monetary amount he needs to collect. I do believe that reducing taxes will improve the economy, but I reckon there would be a time lag of years between cutting them and Dave reaping the benefit of the smaller slice of the larger pie. Like a ULCC captain, he doesn’t have the luxury of being able to turn the thing round on a sixpence. If I were he, I’d calculate the amount each taxpayer needs to pay for Labour’s debt, and label it as such. Maybe change “National Insurance” to “Gordon’s Gambit”.

    • 453
      Max says:

      Based on voting record surely TT? It could be essentially a voluntary tax with the liability dependant upon how many times the taxpayer voted ZNL in the last three elections and with a surtax payable if they are still ZNL supporters and wish to commit to voting for them again. If they wish to avoid “super tax” they can complete a small number of non-dated postal voting forms to be handed over to the local tory and libdum party offices.

  63. 390
    Truth Sayer says:

    ”We’re going to get single mothers back into work”

    oh fucking brilliant Dave and who’s gonna stump up the babysitter wage to look after her kids?

    fucking brilliant Dave are you going to make the minimum wage higher so it’s worthwhile working than staying on the rock n roll?

    Or are you gonna cut the dole so they have no choice but to get a job?

    which will lead to the workshy ones getting up the duff even more to keep there comfy bone idle existence as it is.

    So your going to cut the child allowance Dave???

    fucking brilliant

    oh wait your promoting ‘family’ and ‘togetherness’ so will keep child allowance to reward stable families.

    So really Mr fucking brilliant Dave Cameron you are talking complete shit
    aren’t you, as it all contradicts it’s self.

    it’s an illusion that doesn’t stand up to closer scrunity, soundbites and headline grabbers Tony Blair style.

    leading us all up the garden path for another 10 years of the same BS we’ve had under labour you bunch of clowns.

    I’d rather have Saddam Hussein in power now than lightweight Dave or Chandler Bing that’s how pissed off ordinary people like me are becoming with the politics and JOKE that passes as DEMOCRACY in this country.

    I hope the EU forces PR on this country that would be a laugh a minute to see the big three’s faces lose their seats to Greens, UKIP, B&P, Indies etc. etc.

    • 397

      Truth Sayer, the Family Allowance was introduced as a way of encouraging parents to have more children. Hence, originally, the first born did not have Family Allowance.

      Do we still need, as it has been described, a ‘breeding fee’ or not?

      • 409
        Truth Sayer says:

        In the ideal world it would be scrapped so responsiblity could be encouraged, if you want four or five babies fine but you pay for it instead of putting your hands in my pocket to feed your kids with, but in Cameroons world things will just carry on as usual.

        • 418

          Yep, I see it as Bad parents taking their own children hostage, “Pay up or we harm the child!”

          Remember when you pay the Danegeld (ransom) you don’t get rid of the Dane (extortionist).

          • Fat-Cat says:

            It’s a tax on those who dare not bring a child into the world because they have a good life and are not prepared to compromise on it by having to educate a child.

            No matter, the ferral population can pump them out and abuse them at our expense!!

    • 420
      nell says:

      You can’t get most single mothers who are on benefits back into work , because for the most part they haven’t ever worked.

      Problem therefore is they lack the work ethic and they have no work skills that would make them employable.

      The problem therefore for Cameron is not just what will happen over childcare and it’s costs but what needs to happen for training schemes and their costs. And to add to this one little problem that he will face is the fact that we have rising unemployment so jobs will be scarce anyway.

      Frankly he is inheriting an appalling mess in every government department and I don’t envy him the job.

  64. 408
    Former Tory says:

    Listening to Daves speech I was ready to vote Tory then something happened he said “we must look the British people in the eye” etc why not our ‘fellow citizens in the eye’ Isn’t he and his cabinet British ……… then it dawned the political classes really do think they are above the rest of us & not part of our real world………… This simple remark explains many things not least their assumption that they can rip us off without fearing the consequences

  65. 422
    Truth Sayer says:

    Another thing that get’s my goat, let’s rid the world of poverty and help the world, oh ffs sod offfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.

    How can you rid the world of poverty when babies are coming out like a factory production line, like the interview with the Chinese farmers on the BBC the otherweek, The poor one has three kids with little to no education and two wives and the middle class one has one kid who goes to the local school.

    The poor one is banging on about how he’s badly done for because he’s a muslim etc. etc.

    No mate it’s because you can’t keep your dick in your trousers is why your up sh*t creek without a paddle stuggling to feed more mouths than you can produce crops for and then feeding them takes out of your profits SIMPLE AS.

    Why should the better off farmer have to fund your lifestyle, I’m sure he would love another kid or two but he can’t afford and know he can’t and doesn’t want to raise a child he can’t provide a decent life for simple as, yet he’ll have to pay more taxes to bail mr couldn’t have a hand shandy to fight off the urges out.

    By helping these people we COMPOUND THE PROBLEMS, it’s as if we actually it acceptable by creating the false illusion that someone will always be their to save you, we are creating a bigger mess for the world down the road, where is the sane heads around the world to tell these people NO you cannot do as you like and expect me to bail you out.

    The world is going to hell in a handcart really fast.

    • 423
      Truth Sayer says:

      Also how the guy was even allowed to have three kids or more than one wife when China has the one child policy, i’m still trying to work out.

    • 452
      Max says:

      Really get a grip on why the “climate change messaiahs” are lying thieving self serving hoons by checking on this link and watching the earth’s population explode then wonder why no hoon addresses this subject. Notice the birth hotspots.

      Breathing Earth

  66. 428
    nell says:

    O/T At the Iraq Remembrance Service this morning the Archbishop of Canterbury lambasted Bliar and Brown as the Policy Makers in respect of war -quoting a passage from the Bible about ” spiritual wickedness in high places”

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6867871.ece

    Since they were both sitting in the congregation I hope his barb hit the mark.

    • 431
      The Archbishop of Canterbury says:

      Thank you, nell.

      I noticed more than one Hoon in the audience.

  67. 436
    me says:

    the only change that I know is a certainty, change I can believe in is when I put a fresh pair of socks on in the morning!

  68. 459
    keith chegwin says:

    vacuous rich hoon to win next election – kill these elite wankers somebody please

  69. 467

    Danny Finkelstein is the most overrated twerp in British politics.

    I have never heard him make a prediction about journalism or politics that wasn’t the exact opposite of what transpired.

    The last time I met him, in 2005, he predicted that the mainstream media in the UK would see off bloggers (unlike America), because standards in journalism are so high, there would be no room for the likes of this blog.

    The first time I met him, he explained how the Tories could win the 1997 general election. I hope he was making it up.


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Rod Liddle on the loony UN sexism special rapporteur:

“There is more sexism in Britain than in any other country in the world, according to a mad woman who has been sent here by the United Nations.

Rashida Manjoo is a part-time professor of law at Cape Town University in the totally non-sexist country of South Africa (otherwise known as Rape Capital Of The World).

Mrs Magoo has been wandering around with her notebook and is appalled by the sexist “boys’ club” culture here, apparently.

I don’t doubt we still have sexism in the UK. But is it worse than in, say, Saudi Arabia, d’you think, honey-lamb? Or about 175 other countries? Get a grip, you doolally old bat.”



orkneylad says:

What’s he been doing FFS, mining bitcoins?


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