June 2nd, 2009

MEPs Vote Themselves Lower Taxes Then Deny It

Euro Vote 09A TaxPayers’ Alliance/ComRes poll (report) asked 101 MEPs and 1020 members of the British public their opinions.  One of the statements respondents were asked to agree or disagree with was a bit of a trap for those on the Brussels gravy-train

MEPs should pay a lower rate of income tax than the people they represent;

The public were overwhelmingly opposed to the idea that MEPs should enjoy lower taxes than their constituents, by 82% to 15%.  10% of MEPs were openly in favour of the proposition of lower taxes for themselves, whilst 75% were publicly opposed.  Not so bad you think, they on the whole accept that all should be equal before the law.

Except MEPs have already voted for themselves a special tax rate. They say one thing to the public but vote in the opposite direction in the EU Parliament itself.

UPDATE : The BBC also polled the British public, finding that most people think most MPs are corrupt and when asked whether they trusted MPs to tell the truth, 20% said they did and 76% said they did not.  Which shows the truth that of the saying “you can fool some 20% of the people all the time”….

bbc_poll

62% said they believed MPs put their own self-interest ahead of the country and their constituents. You can’t fool all of the people all of the time…


195 Comments

  1. 1
    Freggles says:

    Youuuuuuuuu dirrrrties

    (first)

  2. 2
    Praguetory says:

    In terms of sleaze, Brussels contains the mother ship.

  3. 3
    Galloping Gurner says:

    I sincerely hope that this is just the beginning of clearing up this filth. Along with out of control Councils, quangos, regional assemblies etc etc

  4. 4
    Carnot says:

    Surprise surprise. Another troughing bunch of crooks to tival the UK scamalot.

  5. 5
    exiled&angry says:

    This lot are notorious troughers even by the standards set by UK MP’s so why are we surprised..!?

  6. 6
    Steve Expat says:

    The main difference between MPs’ expenses and MEPs’ expenses, is that the MEPs are automatically paid the full ‘allowance’ every month – tax free – with no receipts required.

    This system tends to avoid inconveniences down the line, you know like FoI requests or receipts ending up with a newspaper…

    I think the rate of tax that MEPs voted for EU employees is around 15%, will look for a source…

  7. 7
    Help says:

    What can we do?

  8. 8
    A fossil says:

    It couldnt happen in france. They don’t have to give receipts.

  9. 9
    Builders Crack says:

    Yes, and we have the donkeys arsehole – Golom Brown.

  10. 10
    Scorched Earth says:

    If anyone saw a recent roundtable with the Leaders of the main European Parties in Britain they would have seen Polticians who had the look of people expecting the sky to fall in at any miniute.

    They are all troughing and now live in fear of the backlash when they get caught.

    Once the Westminster Expenses have been fully consumed and digested might we expect some enterprising Newspaper to dust off the big book of investigative journalism and do the same to Brussels as we have seen in Westminster ?

    I really hope so.
    Because the Euro Piggery needs the disinfectant of a Supernova blaze of publicity not merely Sunshine.

    On another Poll related note…

    Almost 50% of people believe at least half of all MPs are corrupt, a BBC survey commissioned in the wake of the expenses scandal suggests.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8078159.stm

    Only 50% ? Well there’s time for that to rise yet.

  11. 11
    Farmer says:

    The really astonishing datum is that 15% of those asked AGREE that MEPs should pay a lower tax rate than themselves! If people may now officially be deemed too stupid to parent, perhaps some might also be declared too thick to vote.

  12. 12
    Anonymous says:

    More waffle from Dave on R4 about Europe and Lisbon.He clearly wants Tory voters to give him a blank cheque.No thanks!His expenses waffle was even worse.

  13. 13
    Ed Balls says:

    Shut up, drink your beer and watch the telly, Prole. This has nothing to do with you

  14. 14
    Martin in Essex says:

    Any of us finding ourselves standing in the dock accused of fraud and any other form of corruption, the perfect defense seems to be “it was an administrative error”.

  15. 15
    Barry Sheridan says:

    Guido, this is hardly a surprise for anyone who has any knowledge of human nature. Its demonstrable throughout history that the easiest way to get support is to buy it, be this via welfare, meaningless public sector jobs or just generous backhanders. Jesus himself was sold out for thirty pieces of silver, MEP’s are of course a little bit more expensive, but that inflation for you.

  16. 16
    Wholly, exclusively and necessarily says:

    This is the next leg of the story, GUido; can we get someone to leak the disks of EU expenses? SOmeone must have it? Or should we start a purchasing fund to get them …

    Have just heard news on R4 about MPs attacking Buckingham Palace opening hours. Fits the piece. Usual alternative target.

    Have never forgotten how No 10 announced the 2001 election – that HMQ ‘had complied with TB’s request’ for a dissolution of parliament.

    HMQ ‘complied’ with TB?

    Tells you all you need to know.

  17. 17
    parish councillor says:

    He is as bad as the other serious offenders. No ethics. Pure and simple.

  18. 18
    Job says:

    It is just all so depressing.

    The modern lie that we are better off than much of the world because we live in a democracy with governments thaqt can be trusted is just that. An old lie brought up to date.

    Of course the coming about of the European superstate, births a super corrupt government and the citizen even less powerless.

    Even our right to protest is all but gone and our only voice, the ballott box, is meaniningless.

  19. 19
    Adam Boulton for PM says:

    Never rated that twat Boulton in the past. Thought he was an arse-licking Sky News twat grovelling to whoever was PM.

    The day before yesterday he interviewed that twat Cameron with due respect and regard, obviously hedging his bets.

    Yesterday he interviewed that twat Brown with anything but due respect and regard and Brown the twat was absolutely raving.

    With the Sun newspaper coming out clearly yesterday with a vote for ABL (Anyone But Labour), I think that twat Rupert Murdoch has seen the writing on the twat wall.

    In other words they’re all twats

  20. 20
    Right Bastard says:

    The clearest reason yet to get out of the EU – corruption to the very core.

  21. 21
    Stepney says:

    Please let us see that Harman interview from last night. Car crash doesn’t even come close. Paxman toyed with her like a cat does with a mouse with a broken back.

    She didn’t know if she was coming or going (no change there then), but had there been a referee he’d have stopped it by the end of the first.

    As it was Paxman held her head above the ropes and kept going.

    Marvellous.

  22. 22
    nell says:

    No 10 spin, attack the palace over some trivia to try and take public attention away from Gordon’s mess over D-Day arrangements.

    Won’t work. Obama’s going to accompany Her Maj instead.

    Re: MEP’s – we need another campaign – couldn’t we start with British MEP’s first – lobby Dave as the next PM to make it law that all British MEP’s have to publish all their expenses on their websites.

  23. 23

    MEPs are a perfect example of ‘Toynbee-ism’ – “We are denying with our mouth what we are working hard to achieve with our hands”. Gordon Brown & his coterie of cnuts have achieved Grade A* perfection by following the example set in Brussels.

  24. 24
    Steve Expat says:

    Maybe this is same subset of people who lead to Labour showing 18% in the latest opinion polls…

    Remember that 50% of the population are statistically less intelligent than average ;-)

  25. 25
    nell says:

    Know if there’s video link?

  26. 26
    Ken Hall says:

    Agreed. There should be a “civics” test and only people who understand what they are voting about and who for and why and who understands how Parliament is supposed to work, should be allowed to vote. Anyone that answers “why do you vote for your party of choice? with “because my parents voted that way”, or “because of my class and background” should be immediately banned from voting.

  27. 27
    bustop says:

    Had some spare time so went back and looked at the text of the proposed amendment to the FOI act as produced by Labour – Harman – in early January.

    7. Policy background

    7.1. The purpose of this Order is to change the scope of the application of the Act in relation to information held by the House of Commons and House of Lords regarding expenditure in respect of Members of both Houses. This includes information held by either House about expenses claimed by and allowances paid to Members. Such information is no longer within the scope of the Act. However, information relating to the total annual amount of expenditure incurred in respect of a Member remains with the scope of Act – but not expenditure information on a Member’s security arrangements, (which remains outside the scope of the Act).

    7.2 The Order will not affect the application of the Act to other information held by the House of Commons or the House of Lords (e.g. information about the administration of the Houses themselves).

    7.3 The Order amends the Act so that neither House of Parliament will be required, under the Act, to disclose receipt level information on Members expenditure.

    I watched Paxman interview Harman last night and, while he was quite firm with her, direct reference to this, especially 7.3, would have burried her, why do they not do the research?

  28. 28
    going down the pan says:

    acording to ukip on question time last week after thursdays election mep’s salerys will go 45% yes 45% a figure which was not denied by any of the other mep’s on the panel. troughing scumbags !

  29. 29
    Anonymous says:

    They make sure they have a good do to ensure they don’t rock the boat. It’s called “bribery”. And it’s something that UK troughing politicians can aspire to.

    We are paying huge amonts of money to provide lucrative career options for politicians.

  30. 30
    Unemployed Kamikaze Pilot says:

    Looking for work, Westminster, Brussels or Strasbourg, bulk discounts, 3-for-price-of-2, paid only on results will take any side.

    Guaranteed results or your money back, no need for months of JCB’s and bulldozers, I will flatten them all in an hour.

  31. 31
    Lord Gideon Partisan BabblingBigot says:

    Can he hold that line after UKIP get’s a monster vote and Tory eurosceptics start coming out of the woodwork again ?

  32. 32
    Anonymous says:

    Even Dan Hannah could,nt hide fast enough, and the greens were silent on it too.

  33. 33
    Anonymous says:

    We need fully exposure of expenses etc, on MEP, MPs and Councillors.

  34. 34
    Anonymous says:

    As usual she neither confirmed or denied anything. No change.

  35. 35
    Anonymous says:

    Wrong on Two accounts this time Mr Fawkes – firstly the Council not the Parliament voted for new system and secondly British MEPs will pay UK tax and NI on top of any Euro tax.

  36. 36
    Steve Expat says:

    Can’t find the Paxman interview but she also got a kicking from Nicky Campbell on 5 live yesterday morning :-)

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8076940.stm

  37. 37
    Charles says:

    I didn’t watch it after Michael Crick’s appaling performance:

    Paxo said: what do you think about this front page story suggest that Geoff Hoon is guilty of… [insert full details – think it was claiming on 2 properties]

    Crick’s response: Much more interesting is this random Scottish backbencher [Jim Devine?] that no one has ever heard of that the Labour party has unilaterally decided to refer to their Star Chamber disciplinary proceedure.

    So, Michael, how come a corrupt Cabinet Minister isn’t worth discussing on prime time TV, but it’s alright to imply that the Labour party is being wonderfully proactive and tough on sleaze?

  38. 38
    Ken Hall says:

    Worse really. At least the Lib-Dems and Labour do not pretend to be Euro-sceptic whilst selling us out. The tories are singularly dishonest about their approach to Europe.

    Post Lisbon, The “this far and no further” policy is NOT an option. Call me Dave should be open and up front about what their policy would be given a ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, he always uses weasel words to avoid answering the question. He is as much a Rothschild puppet as the other leaders and he will follow their plans.

    Would the tories have the balls to actually, and seriously consult the electorate by way of a referendum on the central issue of membership itself?

    I think that they should promise that in the event of Lisbon being ratified, that they would hold a referendum on whether the UK should be all the way in, or all the way out of the EU.

    All the way in would mean following the EU roadmap to complete political integration into a profoundly anti-democratic oligarchy to the extent that the UK will no longer exist as an independent legislative entity. The UK will be broken and separated legislatively into smaller EU regions with no sovereignty at all. We would be citizens of a republic ruled over and granted liberties at the whim of the oligarchy.

    We are at the point where we must be given a choice. The EU itself is removing the option of “this far and no further”, rendering all current Conservative party EU policy completely moot.

  39. 39
    English Liberation Front says:

    But what about McNulty?

  40. 40
    PM needs straight-jacket for next TV interview says:

    After Boulton’s interview on Sky News yesterday when I thought Brown was going to throttle him what is the betting that non-elected Brown is close to losing it completely during a future live interview and the world will see what a complete and utter lunatic, moron, nutter, imbecile, scumbag we have running the country.

  41. 41
    Ken Hall says:

    We are not citizens. The UK is NOT a republic!

    We are not wholly ruled by a republic (yet)

  42. 42
    Anonymous says:

    Just watched-he let the bitch TOTALLY off the hook!

  43. 43
    The truth about expenses says:

    Deep trough, mega trough, uber trough, troughing for England ,Ireland Scotland and Wales, Troughing in the morning noon and night. Quiet troughing, secret troughing, obvious troughing,not so obvoius troughing. Lying and troughing, continuing troughing in the face of all oppositon cos I can troughing.

    Fuck you

    Your local MP and MEP.

  44. 44
    Ken Hall says:

    The BBC studiously avoiding the avalanche of cabinet sleaze again? Oh what a surprise.

  45. 45
    Anonymous says:

    Can this interview be seen?

  46. 46
    going down the pan says:

    if thats the case all mp’s should be tested to see if they understand what exactly they are claiming for .

  47. 47
    A deceitful liar, looter, bully, and sanctimonious control freak, says:



    Aye, i’ tha’ quan’ wan’s tae’ gae’ ta’ tha’ D-Day thungy – sha’s anly’ got’ae as’ ma.

    Ar’ plan’d tha’ whol’ thin’ ye’ knoo’ – ay’ – an’ d-day too ar’ seem tae’ rmem’br

    Cos’ ar’ ruly’ tha’ warld’ ye knoo. Ah’m tha’ faery fearty quenn ye knoo’

    An’ nuth’ns ma’ fult ye unda’stn.

    [TRANSLATION :

    I, the Supreme Leader, the Greatest Thing that has ever Walked On Earth, – I, rule completely.

    And if this impostor from the Palace, – who, (like my mentor Bliar incidentally) – clearly does not recognise my greatness, wants to go to the D-Day Celebrations – she has only to ask for my gracious permission.

    After all, I fought hard to give this country and its gold away to any passing crook and scrounger.

    The Monarch and the others just want to Celebrate Saving It.

    Well I am the Czarina! So there!

    Commentary :

    More deluded piffle from a dangerously deranged bone-headed lunatic. ]

  48. 48
    Anonymous says:

    The 20 percent who still believe MPs are Labour voters – they are fucking thick enough to believe anything.

  49. 49
    Sir Robin Knest-Magpie says:

    Yes. It’s on Sky news ‘politics’.

  50. 50
    Pelagius says:

    Guido.

    Love you to bits but sometimes you do write bollocks.

    In future, MEPs will be paid by the EU not their state governments so that they all have the same salary. The EU employees tax is, I think, 10 or 15%. (Shouldn’t you like that?). That being the case, the question is which UK MEPs have agreed to pay more income tax to take them up to the relevant UK rate. Bet you UKIP won’t do that.

  51. 51
    Popeye says:

    Largely they are crooks, in it to line their own pockets.
    Answer, less law makers and more prisons.
    Finally, leave the EU and spend 100% of our money on us, instead just what Brussels thinks we should have.

  52. 52
    Number 6 says:

    Dave ‘Boy Green’ Cameron is running scared of UKIP. Hence the ‘tough talk’ on the EU. He is just another sock puppet for Brussels. Roll on the fourth and hopefully a good kicking for all the main three EU sell outs.

  53. 53
    Steve Expat says:

    Found it!

    It’s on the Taxpayers’ Alliance website

    http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/files/meppay-1.pdf

    Some short excerpts (about 1/3 of the document), apologies for the long post!

    “Currently a British MEP is paid the same as a Westminster MP – £63,291.
    Paying British income taxes, depending on their family circumstances a British
    MEP will pay about £16,456 income tax (26 per cent), leaving the MEP about
    £46,835 to take home. After the June 2009 European Parliament, all MEPs
    from all countries will be paid the same – at least €7,665 a month (€91,980 a
    year). On this they will typically (again depending on family circumstances)
    pay a special European Union tax of €13,797 (15 per cent) leaving them a
    take-home pay of €78,183.

    With an exchange rate of €1 = £0.80 this would raise a British MEP’s total
    salary after June 2009 to £73,584 (a rise of 16 per cent) and give an increase
    in take-home pay from £46,835 to £62,546 (a rise of 33 per cent). However,
    the exchange rate has also moved in their favour since 2008. If exchange
    rates remain at around €1:88p then their take home pay will increase to
    £68,801. That will mean that a combination of the pay rise, more favourable
    tax treatment and the change in the exchange rate leave MEPs with a 47 per
    cent rise in their take home pay.

    “For each day an MEP signs in, they can claim a Subsistence Allowance of
    €287 tax free. British MEPs call this the SOSO (sign on and sod off)
    allowance, because all you have to do to get it is to sign in. There is no
    requirement to attend a single debate or committee session. What you do for
    the rest of the day is up to you. Assuming an MEP signs in four days a week
    for forty weeks, they will get €1,148 a week – €45,920 a year (nb about 70
    MEPs each week also sign in on a Friday to get the subsistence allowance
    before going home for the weekend).

    “The biggest pot of money MEPs can dip into is for employing staff. Currently
    this stands at about €202,968 per MEP per year. This allowance has increased
    by an inflation-busting 34 per cent in the last five years. There are no
    guidelines regulating how much an assistant should be paid, and MEPs are
    permitted to pay a large portion of their allowance to just one person. Some
    even do this, creating the absurd situation where MEPs’ assistants are
    apparently paid much more than the MEPs for whom they work. There are
    even cases where up to eight MEPs will share the services of one or two
    assistants, potentially allowing each of them to make massive profits from
    claiming the full Assistants’ Allowance.

    Many MEPs use this allowance to pay members of their own family. The
    amount is so generous that an MEP can easily afford to slip their partner or
    offspring €50,000 to €60,000 a year for the occasional helping hand and still
    have enough loose change to employ more than one full-time secretary and a
    few researchers. Some MEPs dispense with the formality of handing the cash
    to a family member and just pay some of it to themselves.

    “Each MEP is provided with two fully furnished, rent-free offices in the
    European parliament building, one for themselves and one for their
    secretaries and assistants.

    However, they are also given an office allowance of €48,624 a year for having
    an office in their constituency. Here too no receipts are required to get this
    money. As one MEP said, ‘there is no need to present receipts for office
    expenses and there’s no audit. You could use the allowance for any purpose
    you like.’ Many MPs claim that their constituency office is in their own home.
    This allows them to rent out a room in their homes to themselves, which they
    pay for with EU taxpayers’ money. Some even just take all the money without
    bothering to have a constituency office at all.

    “In addition, MEPs get very generous travel expenses. They can claim weekly
    flights from their constituencies. Here they do actually need to provide some
    proof that they have travelled. However, they just have to submit the stub
    from the boarding pass – they are not asked for any information about how
    much they have paid for their ticket. They are then reimbursed for a fully
    flexible economy class ticket, plus an extra payment for distance travelled of
    over €100 for every 500 kilometres, all usually adding up to comfortably more
    than a business class fare.

    By buying cheap weekend return tickets or by travelling on budget airlines,
    (Ryanair and Easyjet between them fly from Brussels to more than 40
    European cities) many MEPs can rake in more than €300 a week tax free.
    German MEPs living in Berlin, for example, could, according to one report,
    make a profit of around €800 each time they travelled to Brussels and over
    €1,000 for every trip to Strasbourg.

    “MEPs also get an annual travel allowance of €4,000 a year to go anywhere in
    the world as long as this travel is connected with their work as an MEP. The
    Caribbean and the Far East seem to be popular destinations, with one MEP
    justifying a trip to exotic Thailand on the basis of a half-hour meeting at the
    EU’s Bangkok offices.

    “After the June 2009 elections, with a salary of £73,584, each year a MEP
    works will give an annual inflation-linked pension of about £2,450, equivalent
    to putting £70,000 a year into their pension savings.

    So, over a 5-year term, a British MEP’s pension savings would typically be
    equivalent to the taxpayer making contributions of around £350,000.

    In addition MEPs can save for an additional voluntary EU pension. For every
    €1,000 they paid per month into their pension scheme, the EU would pay
    double that amount. MEPs are allowed to pay this extra €1,000 from their
    €48,624 office expenses. In theory, they are then supposed to reimburse this
    money from their own bank accounts. However, everything relies on the
    MEPs’ honesty. Unsurprisingly, a few years ago MEPs voted down a proposal
    that EU parliament auditors should check whether any of them actually do
    repay this money.

    “Adding all this up, a typical British, French or German MEP will be getting over
    €460,000 a year in salary, pension and expenses – more than €2.3 million for
    each five-year period in Brussels.”

  54. 54
    Just who does Gordon Brown think he is? says:

    Even the Quen and HER armed forces are powerless.

    Our Queen seved our nation in WW2 and has done so ever since.

    What right has Gordon Brown to take her place at the D day commemorations? The twat is only going because Obama is.

    To give Obama credit he wants to see The Queen there, the real Queen that is, not the gay one from fife.

  55. 55
  56. 56

    But surely there can’t be any corruption left in the EUSSR, Lord Kinnock cleared it all up?

    The Penguin

  57. 57
  58. 58
    P1 says:

    MEPs are hoping to slide by on Thursday, and ride out exes problems later when the spotlight turns on them, but the elections are out of the way.

    Meanwhile, we haven’t finished with MPs and Lords yet. Has that Lib Dem bloke with the barbecue carried on claiming his Lords exes since “standing down” as Lib Dem Office manager? Also, have the met interviewed Uddin yet – of course Brown will already have sacked her, won’t he? Has Brown explained how his “second home” moved mysteriously from Westminster to Scotland just before he became PM – even though his state-funded living arrangements were still broadly the same (ie he just moved one-door along in Downing Street)? Also ask him why he gave Mrs Brown his old flat (that we had all been paying for), and see if his answer passes the Moral Compass test.

    Finally, McBride – what is his current employment status? Can someone ask Brown to confirm that his earlier statements were a full and frank (“trance-pare-ent” as he would say), explanation of the situation? Does anyone else agree with me that if it turns out that McBride is still a paid civil servant that makes the PM a liar (again)?

    Smith, Blears, Hoon, Purnell, Balls, Cooper, Darling, McNulty, Beckett, Brown……….anyone resigned or been sacked yet?

  59. 59
    Dr Feelgood says:

    Like the wonderful citizenship test? I tried it an got less than 50%.

    Very likely any such Civic Test would be slanted to favour the left, like our electoral boundaries.

  60. 60
    Number 6 says:

    Agreed MEPs like Hunt Kinnock rob us blind and we can’t do fuck all about it as the EU is an unelected socialist super state. I am voting UKIP not as a protest, but because I want us out of the EU and Hunts like Kinnock’s career finished when theyr are destroyed in our national elections and not given a second chance at the trough via the EU.

    PS, watch McPiggie Brown slither over there after he is kicked out. He has been a good colleauge by denying us the referendum and his gold plated trough is waiting for him in Brussels.

  61. 61
    Bob from Brum says:

    “If you once forfeit the confidence of your fellow citizens, you can never
    regain it. It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the
    time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can’t
    fool all of the people all of the time.”

    Abraham Lincoln

    Lincoln’s words are as true today as when he spoke them. Our politicians should take careful note of what he said, for they have nearly all forfeited my confidence.

    Bob

  62. 62

    This is what happens when you have career politicians: unsurprisingly they make a career of politics, which usually means maximising income, minimising workload, and making it difficult for “the people”, busy with their own lives to see whats going on.

    They must really hate you, Guido.

  63. 63
    Auto Asphyxia says:

    Interesting to note that on several occasions Brown attempts to drop his Scottish accent for “estuary” English, as practised by Tony Blair.

    Has he been taking elocution lessons, or just taking advice too much from his predecessor?

  64. 64
  65. 65
    parish councillor says:

    In my neck of the woods UKIP will do well on Thurs from my straw polling.

    Dave better get his act together fast. The Lib Dems would do very well if there were a GE on Thurs. Labour might get a few votes.

    Our local rag is really turning against the Tory Council and is rather cynical about the Tory MP.

    These are interesting times and the sheeple are getting seriously upset.

    Tories be warned.

  66. 66
    Troughtastic says:

    FFS.

  67. 67

    He’s a Hunt. Simples.

    The Penguin

  68. 68
    Sir Robin Knest-Magpie says:

    Am I right in thinking that taxing public sector workers including MEP/MP’s is just a money-go-round and that the taxation of the private sector is the real problem? Surely ‘they’ are paying the tax back with the tax they have taken from private production and wealth? They may as well not pay tax as it’s pointless.

  69. 69
    Whiffler says:

    And when they abolished Duty Free allowances inside EU borders, they kept it for themselves andtheir flunkies as it was regarded as ‘part of their pay & conditions’.

    B@stards

  70. 70
    barmy army says:

    shotgun and stick it up there arse and oull trigger

  71. 71
    barmy army says:

    did anyone read that?

  72. 72
    Ken Hall says:

    That is because the BBC is just one establishment puppet interviewing labour, who are just another establishment puppet. The Establishment will protect itself at all costs. The tories and Lib Dems are other establishment puppets.

    They all work together to manipulate the information we receive to manipulate US into demanding they create the world that THEY want to live in. Not the one that WE would choose. These little minor political media spats are part of this.

    If the BBC was really impartial, and was a public SERVICE broadcaster, then they would be showing a new reality TV show called hang the bastards whereby the viewers at home get to vote each night for which MP we hang form the neck until they are dead next.

    Instead they give us questions, tough enough to keep the conditioned masses angry, but soft enough to keep us compliant.

    Basically, they are presenting the problem (corruption in Parliament); controlling the reaction (soft questions); until they unwrap THEIR solution that they have been conditioning us to believe we wanted all along, (the removal of sovereignty from our sovereign Parliament with powers moved to the “independent” third sector.)

    They are playing us all for fools.

    However, ’tis a dangerous game they play as we are waking up and seeing and recognising more and more the manipulation that they are playing. I, for one, will not stand for it.

    We have an opportunity to use our vote as a weapon AGAINST these bastards. DO NOT VOTE FOR ANY MAINSTREAM PARTIES!

    When the establishment tells you that voting for fringe parties may be OK as a protest, but not for policy as electing fringe parties would be dangerous, they are correct. But it would only be dangerous for the parasitic bastards in the establishment that are destroying this country. Their denunciation of the fringe tells you all you need to know. If the establishment does not want us to vote for the fringe, then that is EXACTLY what we SHOULD do!

  73. 73
    Master Baiter says:

    UKIP = angry middle aged/old men.

    Watch the right self destruct, has me in stitches. At least Cameron has made the Toryboys electable, now the old guard are doing their best to take him down without Labour lifting a finger.

    Fools! Tee hee

  74. 74
    PM will still give interviews as long as no questions asked says:

    Take close look at 1:50

    http://plato-says.blogspot.com/2009/06/taxi-for-mr-brown-labour-hits-18.html

    The man needs to book a room at the Priory next to his mate Boyle.

  75. 75
    Mrs Kindleysides says:

    Brown wasn’t going to go but there was a bit of a furore about a month ago and he changed his mind due to public opinion. He clearly then forgot to ask the Queen. The guy is a complete disaster and a waste of space.

    I think Brown should drop out and HM take his place OR she should go as Obama’s guest.

  76. 76
    RavingMad says:

    I would argue they do do the research. Editorial policy demands that they do not use it though. All in the name of balance.

    If, as an organisation, you have been patronising the population for decades on behalf of governments and the establishment, it is mighty difficult to change your ways. Especially if you are funded by the self same governments via our tax money. The only way to change this little scenario would be to ditch the BBC. Now who’s gonna do that….??

  77. 77
    joe r says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00kwqxx/Newsnight_01_06_2009/ is a link to the entire newsnight program.

    The focus group bit is also entertaining, and informing

  78. 78
    Clartmonkey says:

    Don’t underestimate the Jim Devine story.

    The guy is a fourth-rate trougher but as bent as a two-bob note. He submitted an invoice for thousand of pounds worth of electrical work ‘done in his London flat’ with a fake VAT and Company regisitration number which he claims was done by a mysterious ‘friend of a friend;’ who is now either ‘dead, disappeared, or somewhere in Ireland’. He submitted another ‘invoice’ for thousands of pounds worth of shelving in his constituency office that was ‘put up for him by a mate who runs a pub’. The ‘mate who runs the pub’ has publicly denied all knowledge of this, and there is in fact no trace of the shelving in his office.

    Devine could be the straw that finally busts the West of Scotland Labour back – the most corrupt of all Labour’s fiefdoms. If that nut can be cracked then all bets are off.

    Even Scottish labour’s supine PR sheet The Scotsman has been forced to cover this story:

    http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/politics/Labour39s-Devine-faces-expulsion-over.5323590.jp

    although none of the political staff could dry their tears long enough to put a byline on it.

  79. 79
    Spank Sinatra says:

    Fuck me ragged – Lost the will to live after 2nd paragraph! Suggest a short tap to the back of the head would suffice instead.

  80. 80
    Right Hon. Edward Testicles. says:

    Dear Gordon,

    I would like to be Chancellor. I have the experience to do it well.

    Treasury Experience: I was responsible for the FSA regulation of the banking system. I was responsible for the raid on pensions. I was responsible for the growth in stealth taxation. I was responsible for the efficient and effective running of the Working Tax Credit system.

    Political experience: I have been a member of your dirty tricks squad from day one. I worked alongside Mr McBride in developing smear campaigns. I have continually briefed against colleagues and betrayed their trust.

    Morality: I pretend to be a Socialist whilst having a joint income of £375k and claiming £800 a month for food from the taxpayer.

    I’m your man.

    Yours sincerely,

    Ed

  81. 81
    Nemo says:

    “One MP told the organization that “being given a black bin liner to empty my desk, then being escorted out of the building with my pass taken away, is the sort of treatment usually reserved for those ex-employees caught with their hand in the till.” LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/disgraced-mps-eligible-for-parliaments-perks-1694516.html

  82. 82
    RavingMad says:

    another interesting point here is that Brown accuses Boulton of making an incorrect allegation. In fact, Boulton was just asking an obvious question within the discussion (if you can call it that).

    It’s funny that anything of any importance is immediately reified into something else by Brown and his government as a defence tactic. Naturally this means that the allegations can’t be answered because they are allegations – see you in court jimmy – they are real bastards – wish Boulton had got him so worked up Brown would have lashed out – that would be good would it not??? maybe a tactic for our friends in the media to use from now eh????

  83. 83
    In awe of Obama says:

    Let Brown him go by himself the twat, it is just another nail in his coffin.

  84. 84
    Saul says:

    “you can fool some 20% of the people all the time”….

    …..and they are the ones you want to concentrate on….

  85. 85
    It's all Balls says:

    It started in Brussels

  86. 86
    going down the pan says:

    if thats the case all mp’s should be tested to see if they understand what exactly they are claiming for . if not they get fuck all !

  87. 87
    RavingMad says:

    I’m not a royalist but maybe the Queen should go anyway. And when she gets there she can beat the fcuk out of the Scottish BrownBalls bastard with her handbag. It would make could telly!!!

  88. 88

    The thing is that NO SYSTEM will be able to cope if it’s members self-interest and the people they serve diverge.

    Self-interest is a powerful force for making systems work (what my company tries to do for a living is try to align them) or for making systems fail.

    The most obvious change that needs to happen is the end of lobby voting and to enable MPs to vote privately.

  89. 89
    Osama the Nazarene says:

    Can’t believe there are still some people who think that NO MPs are corrupt. You can certainly fool some people all of the time!

  90. 90
    Johnny says says:

    Patricia Hewitt is standing down at the next election

    Says she wants to spend more time with her family. Hasn’t she used that excuse before?

  91. 91
    going down the pan says:

    remember 98% of mp’s are less inteligent than the people they represent nearly all of the “have made a mistake” but ONLY on claiming expences? what mistakes have they made and covered up in parliament ?

  92. 92
    Geoffrey Boycott says:

    you can’t sing that, it doesn’t rhyme

  93. 93
    Clartmonkey says:

    From today’s Telegraph:

    “Tony McNulty, the Employment Minister, claimed more than £2,000 to cover accountancy bills and used his office expenses to purchase A LIST OF POSTAL VOTERS in his Harrow constituency a year after the 2005 general election.”

    Surely some digging to be done here. How many Labour MPs have bought lists of postal voters, and what did they want them for?

  94. 94
    Troughtastic says:

    Love this bit of the interview at 05.05. Check out the shifty look!

    Adam Boulton: Senior members of your Government did try and protect
    MP’s from Freedom of Information Disclosures. They were wrong were they?

    Gordon Brown: Well, hm, the the fact is that Freedom of Information
    has got to apply all uh uh uh all round..

    ——–

    And Boulton extracted what appears to be a commitment at 03.10:

    Its gotta become an open not a closed society, its gotta be subject to the greatest of transparency and you will never again have a system where MP’s expenses could be hid somewhere for years without being published.

  95. 95
    The "Angry Aberdonian" says:

    Just wait till the French get as mad about all of this as we are now – mark my words, there will be tears (if not blood) before bedtime!

  96. 96
    Steve Expat says:

    That’s the problem – THERE ARE NO MEPs EXPENSES.

    MEPs are paid their ‘allowances’ for staffing, salary, accomodation etc, in full with their salary. There is no requirement to produce receipts for anything.

    http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/files/meppay-1.pdf is another Taxpayers’ Alliance doc on this, a few excerpts of which appear above (post 53, which I’ll be screamed at by everyone for copying again!)

    – but basically they’re fucking us up the arse and we seem to have no choice but to bend over and take it!!

  97. 97
    Troughtastic says:

    Just read the last paragraph then. It has all the information you need to know.

  98. 98
    JMT says:

    GROFAZ: GROeSSTE FELDHERN ALLE ZEIT = Greatest Field General of All Time .

    A rather cheeky term for Hitler.

    Perfectly apt for our current PM.

    Grofaz Brown.

  99. 99
    going down the pan says:

    EVERYONE MUST READ BLOG 53 BY STEVE EXPAT RIVITING STUFF !

  100. 100

    Dear wanker,

    Your preferred party is supported by only 18%.

    Oh dear tee hee. Electoral wipeout.

  101. 101
    Mrs Trellis says:

    Obviously to check how many people on average reside in a 6′ x 8′ bedsit.

  102. 102
    Tin Cunliffe says:

    I’d actually draw a different graph.

    100% knew of, did not complain about the odd system.
    80% “use” the system (ie regard it in some extent as salary to be troughed)
    xx% “use” the system in dodgy ways. (Including dodgy flipping)
    xx% Are doing things that one would regard as plainly corrupt

  103. 103
    The big D says:

    Now now MB. Stop being sexist and ageist. Should read UKIP = angry people.

  104. 104
    Gordon says:

    They do.

    But it’s all your fault, you smug warmonger.

  105. 105
    Troughtastic says:

    Absolutely troughtastic.

    Where do I sign up?

  106. 106
    Housing Hubba Bubba says:

    Those are the that thought MP stood for Mouse Pad.

  107. 107
    The longest post of all time says:

    Jesus fcuking christ, that must be the longest post of all time. I wouldn’t like to check your expenses, do you take car registration numbers as a Hobby.

  108. 108
    Anonymous Misogynist says:

    Got as far as the exchange rate €1 = 80p, I wish it was!

  109. 109
  110. 110
    Tin Cunliffe says:

    Probably.
    but it would get complicated and likely to create all sorts of loopholes.

    Notably if a public sector worker gets extra income (which in some cases is quite fair enough (ie doctors or teachers who work in both private + public institutions), or if they’re working for something thats semi-funded or semi-detatched from public funds.

  111. 111
  112. 112
    Downfall says:

    I posted this “Downfall of Gordon Brown” link yesterday, but it was quite late, you might have missed it.

    If you are in need of some light relief check it out, it’s the best “Downfall” video I found (there are about five):

  113. 113
    One Time Spad says:

    They also voted for better pensions (if that is possible) and a significant pay rise (about 30% for UK MEP’s).

  114. 114

    British MPs will look like a bunch of amateur pickposckets compared to the organised syndicates of Eurotrash MEPs and unelected Officials.

    And there’s sporting organisations: IOC and FIFA. Everyone knows they are festering dungheaps of corruption but nobody says a thing (Lord Coe you were on the Ethics Committee were you not? ) because we want the World Cup and the Olympics here.

  115. 115
    Silvio Talli says:

    *
    *
    *
    *

    EUROMONSTERSTSTATEUNION PARLIAMENTARY ELECTION RESULT

    *

    APATHY WUN HANDS DAOUWN

    *

    ASTA

  116. 116
    Sub Editor says:

    You mean she wants to spend more time patronising her family. Once she shuffled off the front bench it finally became safe to watch the news again.

    Just one syllable had to pass her lips before i ran to the sick bucket.

    And, looks at Guido, why has no-one yet exposed the interesting relationship between her old job and the amount of influence her employers had (and still have), on Government consultancies? Mucho money involved so a little bird tells me.

    Just asking, in passing.

  117. 117
  118. 118
    Engineer says:

    Don’t start on that – this could end up as the longest blog thread in history!

  119. 119
    Betty Boothroyds Holiday Dancer says:

    MORRIS: Sorry Alan, I’m going to have to interrupt you – we’ve just had news of a dramatic incident… the Queen and John Major have had a fight! It’s believed to have happened during the Prime Minister’s weekly meeting at Buckingham Palace. On the big screen now is our correspondent, Jennifer Gompertz.

    GOMPERTZ [outside Buck House]: The Prime Minister’s weekly meeting normally lasts an hour. But today, he was seen to leave hurriedly after just 17 minutes. It’s clear that a strong disagreement took place, a disagreement that may have involved physical violence. Some palace staff say they heard loud swearing voices, and the sound of bodies falling against furniture. One says he saw Mr Major emerge with a red mark across his face and bleeding legs. Seconds after Mr Major’s departure, the Queen’s doctor arrived at speed and ran inside. Neither the Palace nor Downing Street have issued an official statement so far.

    MORRIS: And just seconds ago we received this amateur video which indeed seems to show that the Queen and John Major were involved in some kind of drubbing incident.

    [Camcorder footage shows the Queen and Major through the palace windows, laying into each other.]

    MORRIS: And as a result of that broadcast, the crisis has deepend dramatically! I’m joined by our crisis correspondent, Spartacus Mills. Spartacus, this is huge history happening, isn’t it?

    MILLS: It’s bigger than that, Chris, it’s large. If you’ve got a history book at home, take it out, throw it in the bin – it’s worthless. The history books will now have to be rewritten.

    MORRIS: What will they say?

    MILLS: They’ll quite simply say “John Major punched the Queen”. Everything else will be a footnote.

    MORRIS: We’re pushed for time – can you sum it up in a word?

    MILLS: No.

    MORRIS: A sound?

    MILLS: Wooouuoaaaahhhh.

    MORRIS: Spartacus, thank you. Alan. Sport.

  120. 120
    Be gone Gordon says:

    Schoolboy error ! – Major Fail hahahaha

  121. 121

    We know a song about that, don’t we children?
    Troughing in the morning
    Troughing in the evening
    Troughing at suppertime,
    They’re our little piggies
    And troughing all the time.
    I think it was originally released by someone called Alma Cogan.

  122. 122
    For England and Harry says:

    What’s the problem? A one-eyed queen will be there, but I do hope that he leaves the rocking horse at home.

  123. 123

    You can personally “ditch the BBC”.

    Just stop paying the TV-Tax.

    Read this http://www.tvlicensing.biz/ for info.

  124. 124

    Mildly O/T but a simple Tuscan wonders how Alastair D can be eased from his job due to dodgy expense claims, only to be replaced, it would appear, by Ed “double-skimmer” Balls. Talk about swapping Fred West for Josef Fritzl.

  125. 125
    Andy Carpark says:

    That’s jolly good, Ed. You might burnish it a bit more by saying “I was responsible for the tax raid on pensions. They could easily afford this due to the uninterrupted growth in asset values guaranteed by my abolition of boom’n’bust.”

  126. 126
    Edward Devoy says:

    We can’t do anything yet in the UK but on 4th June we can clear the decks in Brussels. Make a clean sweep.
    Just vote for the only party not involved in any sleaze or scandal, don’t know who they are, then do some research on the web.
    and for a clue check out
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwRYeBuwR0U
    and have a laugh with your politics.

  127. 127

    Sexist as well as racist. Maybe he’s a Toytown Nazi plant?

  128. 128
    Anonymous says:

    Never mind elocution lessons, electrocution would be far more appropriate.

  129. 129
    Dr Feelgood says:

    That’s hilarious, I particularly like this quote:
    “I already know of some people who wanted to vote for us but have voted for the wrong party because they saw the word socialist on the ballot paper,” said a Labour politician.

  130. 130
    Osama the Nazarene says:

    If flipping is NOT corrupt I’d be in favour of introducing retrospective legislation to make it so and catch those b’stards.

  131. 131
    Troughtastic says:

    Another fleeing the stench or deselection.

  132. 132

    If they spend more than 90 days in the UK they will pay UK income tax. If they have already paid some income tax into Europe then that can be set off against their UK contributions.

  133. 133
    Adds Up says:

    Let’s hope someone is checking those bin liners.

  134. 134
    Bunker Baby says:

    Dearest Ed

    Our Master Plan is now working. You know that the job will be yours from Friday. It was clever to get Alistair and Geoff to submit dodgy claims so that they are kept out of the way now. Harriet and Hazel are both screwed too (did you see H on Newsnight last night? Blimey what a loser). The Final Solution will soon start and then we will have domination. Be patient. We’ll start with the Blairites, Tories and those damn Lib Dems. Being measured for my crown today.

    Gord

  135. 135
    Chancellor of the Exchequer & Second Lord of the Treasury says:

    To all unemployed people out of work, idle, redundant, destitute, sleeping rough, contemplating suicide.

    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, 197 shoppping days to christmas, ha, ha, ha ha ha

  136. 136
    Sir Cumcision of Whales says:

    I’d check that the bin is still left behind.

  137. 137
    1381 says:

    Come on!!!!!
    Don’t waste your vote.
    UKIP are huge troughers.
    Out of Europe? Oh yeah. Too personally lucrative.
    They voted to allow the Spanish to take our fish.
    They have been there ten years.
    What have they done?
    B all, thats what, other than line their pockets. £2,000,000 regards Farage.
    We must leave the EU.
    We need the £40,000,000 a day in Britain. To rebuild our industries and to give our workers jobs.
    To protect our borders and regain our sovereignty.
    Only one party is offering this. The one they are terrified of.
    What have you got to lose by giving them a go?
    Three main parties all support the EU and domination by Brussels.
    The other minor parties have shown they are nothing but empty bottles, troughing huge.
    Anti EU MEPs are going to be elected right across the EU.
    Lets contribute to that bloc by voting in real British nationalists who will work to bust the greatest dictatorship and pig trough Europe has ever seen

  138. 138
    Perry Neeham says:

    Oh THAT is quite nice after a spliff. But the MEP expense regime is truely bad.

  139. 139
    Hazel Blears' bottom says:

    Midget Poo.

  140. 140
    Frank says:

    Listening to Cameron this morning he stated categorically that the Tories supported staying in the EEC.

    Don’t forget to vote UKIP on Thursday

  141. 141
    Troughtastic says:

    That is fucking hilarious

  142. 142
    Twat Twiddler says:

    Not tonight Darling. I’ve got a haddock.

  143. 143
    1381 says:

    The BBC are loving UKIP at the moment.
    What does that tell you?

  144. 144
    Anonymous says:

    “They are playing us all for fools”. Agree with your analysis 100%

  145. 145
    RavingMad says:

    The use of the word ‘allegation’ is interesting at the moment.

    In recent days the expenses information has suddenly become one of ‘allegation’ for the BBC. Tune in and listen how the info detailed by the DT has become ‘allegations’ that the BBC journalists are pursuing, especially when concerning labour MPs.

    Given that the info the DT is relaying is straight from parliament’s own sources, the word ‘allegation’ makes this a whole other matter.

  146. 146
    freddie flintoff says:

    super super fred super super fred

  147. 147
    Henry Crun says:

    Hello MB. Is that you Dolly? Hasn’t God told you to fuck off yet?

  148. 148
    University material says:

    wot you mean?

  149. 149
    Tin Cunliffe says:

    I’d regard flipping as a not-parlicularly-bright way of maximising the claims (and I;m being too generous saying that 20% of them don’t do that).

    Flipping can be less corrupt than always claiming for the wrong home.

  150. 150
    Sarge says:

    Ho Ho MB, I am having an even better laugh watching the smug left disintegrate.So ‘clever’, yet so clueless.

    Socialists remind me of people who offer to buy everyone a drink then leave someone else to pay for it.

    I appreciate that you can only contemplate a scenario where angry old pensioners vote for UKIP because after all, if anything else were true, you would be needing a large paddle to extract yourself from that particular creek,wouldn’t you?

  151. 151
    Slobberdown Menob says:

    With you all the way!
    Vote nationalist and give this message to the EU leaches.

    .…………………./´¯/)
    .……………….,/¯../
    ..………………/…./
    …………/´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
    ………/’/…/…./……./¨¯\
    …….(’(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
    ……..\……………..’…/
    ………”…\………. _.·´
    ………..\…………..(
    ………….\………….\

  152. 152
    Steve Expat says:

    Classic there Slobberdown! 21st century ASCII art :-)

  153. 153
    fewqwer says:

    So on the “get what you pay for” logic of some of the astroturfing c’unts that post here, MEPs must all be brain surgeons and rocket scientists, right?

  154. 154
    Master Baiter says:

    It is extremely unlikely that 50% of the population are statistically less intelligent than average. It is more likely that more than 50% of the population are less intelligent than the average.
    But you’re too stupid to understand that.

  155. 155
    John Redwood says:

    Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
    Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
    Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mâd,
    Dros ryddid collasant eu gwaed.

    (Cytgan)
    Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i’m gwlad.
    Tra môr yn fur i’r bur hoff bau,
    O bydded i’r hen iaith barhau.

    Hen Gymru fynyddig, paradwys y bardd,
    Pob dyffryn, pob clogwyn, i’m golwg sydd hardd;
    Trwy deimlad gwladgarol, mor swynol yw si
    Ei nentydd, afonydd, i mi.

    (Cytgan)

    Os treisiodd y gelyn fy ngwlad tan ei droed,
    Mae hen iaith y Cymry mor fyw ag erioed,
    Ni luddiwyd yr awen gan erchyll law brad,
    Na thelyn berseiniol fy ngwlad.

    (Cytgan)

  156. 156
    George Osborne says:

    ‘Ere stop messin’ about!

  157. 157
    Master Baiter says:

    Interesting point, but the UK passport now says ‘citizen’ rather than ‘subject’.
    Who knows?

  158. 158
    Master Baiter says:

    If you are a British nationalist you should have copied and pasted a British gesture rather than a North American one.
    Are you an American nationalist?
    The problem in all likelihood is that you are a Mr Bean Pea brain.

  159. 159
    Steve Expat says:

    MB, I know I shouldn’t feed the troll, but the definition of average is that half are above it and half below… See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average if you’re too stupid to work that out.

    And no, This is not a statistics blog, try politicalbetting.com if you wish to discuss the vagries of mean, mode and median averages, standard deviations etc!

  160. 160

    Inheritance tax planning is very essential if you really want that your estate goes in the hands of whom you want to. This demands a very strong and calculated financial planning and if all ends meet in a proper way, your family will be free from any further finance problems in future.

  161. 161
    Master Baiter says:

    For all the hedgmonkeys on this site who insist the crisis didn’t start in America, a sobering fact.
    Since 1 January 2009 the number of home foreclosures (mortgage repossessions) in the US totals 1,015,248.
    In the UK that would be equivalent, roughly, to more than 200,000 reposessions.
    Apparently the rate is accelerating.

  162. 162
    Dan says:

    50% of people are NOT statistically under-average in intelligence. It’s quite possible for 90% of people to be below average intelligence. It is similarly quite possible for 10% of people to be below average in intelligence. If you don’t understand that- then you need to swot up on the meaning of ‘average’. Some smart ass will try to suggest average = ‘mode’ (the person in the middle of all scores); but what most people mean by average is the ‘mean’ (add em up and divide by total instances). Boring I know…but let’s get it right people.

  163. 163
    Churchill's Cattleprod says:

    Proof that we don’t need a European Parliament. The more important these troughers par excellence deem themselves to be the less functionality they have in the real world. As for the BBC/Mori corruption poll surely it must be higher than that. Mori has a nasty habit of cooking the results for Labour, let alone the BBC who are famous for it. I would suggest that people think that “Most” MP’s are corrupt, not just a “Few”.

  164. 164

    MB – the USA is a hire and fire country: useless to compare repo rates with a socialised economy like the UK.

  165. 165
    Master Baiter says:

    Steve Eggs breath,
    You really are stupid, that’s no surprise.
    Take the following example:
    12
    23
    24
    25
    45
    58
    65
    78
    98
    98
    145
    The average is 61, 6 are less than the average 5 are more than the average. Therefore there are more below the average and fewer are above the average.
    You may go

  166. 166
    Master Baiter says:

    Well put, Eggs breath, please note.

  167. 167
    Tin Cunliffe says:

    Thats not really evidence.

    Many different factors came to make this crisis what it is.
    Now to be fair I don’t know quite what the conservatives would have done about the housing market, or whether they really would have regulated banks etc. in a way that would have protected the uk economy more. But Brown ballsed up.

    Ironically if he’d been “more socialist” (higher stamp duty from 2003 onwards anyone?!), this bust might have been weaker.

  168. 168
    Anonymous says:

    Like Dave Billy Hague continues to waffle on Lisbon. Oh for a straight talking MP.

  169. 169
    Slobberdown Menob says:

    Master Baiter says:
    June 2, 2009 at 10:34 am

    If you are a British nationalist you should have copied and pasted a British gesture rather than a North American one.
    Are you an American nationalist?
    The problem in all likelihood is that you are a Mr Bean Pea brain.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………………………

    See!…. not only do you get to give the finger to the EU if you vote Nationalist you also get to piss off the wanker as well. :0)

  170. 170
    Master Baiter says:

    So what?

  171. 171
    Eddie Testicles. says:

    Dear Gord,

    All I had to do was have a word with my chum at Telegraph Towers and bang-bang, we had a Darling Hoon double. Tasty.

    I mean, “timing is everything”, as Yvette seems to complain most Sunday mornings.

    It was a cracking job though. Damian suggested it to me when I popped round to see you the other day.

    Having him delivered to number 10 in the back of the laundry truck every day at least prevents him from downing a couple on the tube every morning.

    Nice one your McHighness,

    Ed

  172. 172
    Scallywag says:

    The BBC poll found that most people think most MPs are corrupt and when asked whether they trusted MPs to tell the truth, 20% said they did and 76% said they did not.

    The 20% broadly equates to those still willing to vote Labour according to recent polls. Perhaps they are the same people, i.e. those with “Vote Labour” stamped on their birth certificates…

  173. 173
    Master Baiter says:

    The crisis is ongoing, the hedgemonkeys that attempt to put all the blame on the UK government are wrong. The crisis has arisen becasue those in the financial markets with the most power abused that power. Unfortunately the general population and the most vulnerable in particular will pay the highest price and will suffer the most. UK government borrowing before the start of the crisis played a small part if any in the subsequent mess.
    The Con servitude party are part of the financial cliques that abused their power and created the crisis.
    You may go.

  174. 174
    Steve Expat says:

    Dan, we’ll agree to disagree, this is a politics blog rather than a statistics blog. As we both know, either of our arguments could be seen as correct depanding on how you wish to frame the question and the definition. :-)

    MB on the other hand, you are a trolling c.u.n.t, please can you just fuck off back to Labourlost or wherever it was that spat you out.

  175. 175
    Master Baiter says:

    Eggs breath, just say sorry for being wrong and stupid and that’ll be that.

  176. 176
    Tin Cunliffe says:

    So you think it was a good idea to free up the financial markets in a way that left britain more vulnarable?

    Surely a LABOUR chancellor/prime minister of all people wouldnt be afraid of keeping naughty capitalists in check?

  177. 177
    Lance D Boyle says:

    Tomorrow’s the LAST MP expenses says DT on Daily Politics!

    Going out with a big bang – they indicate

    Wots that all about?

    PMQs tomorrow? Good innit?

  178. 178
    Wavy Davy slurps Bullingdon Gravy says:

    Whoah there hoss! We don’t have to imagine anything.
    We know what Dave and the conservatives would’ve done about deregulation.
    The same as Broon. Fuck All.

    This isn’t some obscurist matter for speculation.
    It was Policy for Cameron and Broon suck up to the City at all costs, regulation be damned! The amusing thing is it shows no sign whatsoever of changing.

    So those expecting to come out of this Recession and into smooth economic sailing any decade soon are in for a rude shock. The toxic assets are still out there and the financial sector is as crooked and debt riddled as ever.

    And we are definitely in a terrible Recession toryboy’s.
    It and the Expenses Scandal are the reasons Brown’s in the shithole, in case you’ve been distracted by a Bee for the last few months.

    Because it ain’t because the public think Dave is the messiah, that’s for sure.

  179. 179
    Scorched Earth says:

    The obvious conclusion would be they have some very juicy dirt on Brown they haven’t yet shared. Or Cameron. Or Clegg ????

    Of course the high priest of profligacy was one T.Bliar but is that a bang ?

    If it isn’t a Big Name then it’s something staggeringly piggish and greedy.

    Or a whole batch of names in one fell swoop.

    Yeah, we don’t really know yet do we ?

  180. 180
    Anonymous says:

    The day before the EU / Local elections?

    Hmmmm …. interesting!

    It’s got to be anti-Labour….

    Isn’t it ………

  181. 181

    “juicy dirt” is not a mental image I wish to have in my head re Brown and his personal habits.

  182. 182
    Number 6 says:

    I doubt it. Although, whatever the c.u.n.t’s say about standing up to the EU is total rubbish. They are as involved in the ‘project’ as the other two twat parties. UKIP on Thursday and then at the national election, if we get some MPs it will really shake up the fuckers in Westminster.

  183. 183
    Anonymous says:

    Agreed the EU will never leave us alone, we must leave the EU.

  184. 184
    Master Baiter says:

    Do you have any understanding of the meaning of the word power?

    The financial markets are more powerful than sovereign governments.

    You may go.

  185. 185
    Tin Cunliffe says:

    Brown had the power to stop Northern rock acting irresponsibly.
    Brown had the power to put brakes on the housing market.

    Are you saying there is no point having any sort of left-of-centre government?
    Are you actually supporting Guido’s brand of freemarkeering?

    “you can’t buck the market” eh? ! !

  186. 186
    vacuous pedant says:

    The median divides a distribution into two halves – not the mean. If the distibution is skewed, the mean (=average) and median are different. Half the population are below median IQ – by definition. Because IQ distribution is pretty symmetrical about IQ=100, the mean and the median are almost the same.

    It used to be thought that the lowest IQ for a degree was about 115. Now thanks to Balls et al I suspect it is around 85.

  187. 187
    The Bank of England says:

    MB for once I agree with you – It was & is the bankers who have got us into this mess – however it was the politicians, including Maggie & later Brown ,who changed the rules that allowed them to run riot – in fact caused much more damage when he effectively privatized regulation by setting up the FSA

  188. 188
    Raving Loon says:

    So about 2-3% think no MP’s are corrupt? Time to get the men in white coats.

  189. 189
    Whistleblower says:

    While on the subject of corruption, another story breaks:-

    http://www.pr-inside.com/international-tobacco-control-corruption-exposed-r1291951.htm

  190. 190
    sed miles says:

    And the EU gets its money from goblins, does it? All that means is that the UK will be paying not only for its own MEPs but for those of several other countries as well.

  191. 191
    Anonymous says:

    You can fool all of the people all of the time !!!!!!!!!!! if they are from jockland

  192. 192
    Anonymous says:

    Well said pq. The only meaningful average for intelligence is the median (i.e. the man in the middle). Mean can be applied to a quantitative measure such as i.q. but this is not a linear measure. So it is quite correct to say that 50% are below average intelligence, based on the median. MB – they will explain that to you when you go to secondary school.

  193. 193
    jgm2 says:

    A mate of mine worked for ESA in Noordwijk, Holland. Apparently the Euro-expenses go much deeper.

    He was entitled to 80 or 90% (can’t recall exactly) of the costs of any number of his kids private education up until the age of … wait for it, wait for it ….. 25. So basically you could buy them the finest education all the way to PhD levvel. Nice work if you can get it.

    I can’t believe the MEPs are on a less generous deal than that either.

    I seem to recall the MEPs have every member countries bank holidays off too. Sure, there’ll be some overlap like Christmas and New Year but the whole Parliament downing tools for St Patricks Day? And whatever the Latvian equivilent is?

    What a gig eh?

  194. 194
    Churchill's Cattleprod says:

    Like he also managed to turn back the sea at Blackpool?

  195. 195
    last man in yerop says:

    to be fair 2 uk green meps dont take pensions,topped ”open Europe’s” openess table, UKIP meps will put their expenses online. gerard batten wants all meps to put expenses,receipts online for past 5 years,2004 i wonder why lib-lab-con meps wont do it,ips-a-daisy!

    the tory,liberal press establishment seem to be busy digging ”old stories” on kilroy,trying to let tom wise have a non-trial, subjudice.

    IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE EU,STRIKE A BLOW AGAINST POLITICAL CLASS,VOTE UKIP TOMORROW.

    WE DONT NEED BRITISH FASCISM OR EUSSR OR 4TH REICH

    HAPPY christmas guido


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George Galloway says of his former Respect candidate the UKIP MEP turned Tory, Amjad Bashir…

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